Forum Post: End the points system!
Posted 11 years ago on Sept. 9, 2012, 10:54 p.m. EST by jrhirsch
(4714)
from Sun City, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
To Jart and whoever else is running his forum. Please consider removing the point score from this forum. Does it really serve a useful purpose? Or does it encourage self serving individuals to endlessly post the most mundane and off topic posts imaginable just to boost their point score?
Points have nothing to do with the quality of the replies here. Just look at the "best comments today". Are any worth mentioning? Here's an example from today with 9 points, a relatively high score:
"This I do not understand. If you lose your residence, it is a matter of time before you lose your job and then you don't get jack. May Wells Fargo die a miserable death."
If that's the best comment of the day, then we have a major problem. If you were a new reader here and saw that post, would you stay here and read more? This forum has become a desert of ideas. Not much blooming and not much for the trolls to do, they just mow lots of weeds down.
I'd be curious to find out what others here think. Do you want a forum that attracts members to make worthwhile points about the important issues that face us, or one that attracts members who are more interested in achieving the highest point score? For some this is just a game, but if we want to make any progress here, it needs to become a place where the strategy and tactics of the group are more important than the personal goals of the individual.
The point system ends up driving away good members because it attracts a boatload of worthless posts. Who wants to wade through them all? We need to get people back here and hear the good word. If they can't find it here, where else will they?
End the selective shadow banning/scrubbing system for posts that are not breaking any forum rules.
Comment # 100 = Hey ! Where'd this post & thread go ?!! I was kinda getting into it, lol !!!
ad iudicium ...
I still see it. Is it being shadow banned?
Either I've got 'word blindness' (not impossible, lol) or yes as it's not on the list of posts. It still appears when I 'user:yrmoniker' but IF it has been shadow banned - I don't agree with that - but we'll have 'The Forum Shadow' to thank for that, though we all will have played our part perhaps, lol ! Thanx anyway !
pax ...
I support getting rid of the number system. It does not work.
Many people are preoccupied with the points system. Of course the numbers are irrelevant. Mainly because they are easily manipulated. For this reason, poor comments could have large positive numbers and good comments can have large negative numbers.
The number system does not serve the purpose of reflecting real good and bad. It simply shows who is more committed to manipulation. So other than annoying the people who foolishly PUT importance on it the #'s there is no good reason for the number system and I would support eliminating it.
I would like to see a system in place that would remove useless comments, offensive comments, comments that distract with personal attacks, and comments that seek to silence social/political opinions.
a rating system can be utilized that does not allow manipulation. If such a system can be devised, I would support it.
I support discussing issues that can help the 99%. I am not against discussing politics because this is where the power currently resides and improving the lives of the 99% requires that we recognize, and engage this reality. So I believe political discussion MUST be allowed.
I would like to see the official "news alert OWS" posts stay at the top. Maybe even a seperate window that is not bumped down as new posts are made.
Perhaps we can add tabs that organize topics of discussion and encourage a focus on helping the 99%, as well as a bridge to the street by encouraging protest ideas.
Thanx
Like what you have to say here. A few different forum areas might be a good idea. Strategy, news, politics, food and housing, alternative economic systems, Etc.
How would offensive comments be removed? The way they are now or another way?
How is difficult.
I am less tolerant of gratuitous insults that serve no purpose but to personally attack.
I don't think the mods want more work. I'd like to see the rules changed to be less tolerant, and perhaps a simple "report" button added. instead of the current email deal.
Otherwise I don't know how. Do you have any ideas.?
report buttons can be used to vilify a poster
for example: almost every poster makes comments that can be viewed as off topic. If one ants to get rid of a poster, one finds all those OT posts and reports them
Off topic is one thing. A warning s/b enough. A comment deletion might be in order, but certainly not an immediate login ban. Perhaps after numerous, obvious attempts amount to real disruption a banning can be considered.
I am mostly concerned with the gratuitous, obscene, personal attacks. I think we will benefit most at policing that because it is clearly the preferred tactic of a small group of disruptive users.
people can be reported numerous times by numerous sock puppets
yes, those should be reported
The number of rpts does not have to be the deciding factor. 1 report should initiate a review. Many rpts can initiate a review of the reporters! check ip address attempt to see a pattern that indicates thesame individual using sock puppets.
ofcourse, reports have to do with the deciding factor
there would be n decision made at all if the post/poster isn't reported
1 rpt should generate a review. Many rpts therefore are rendered useless.
I was banned from a forum for receiving many reports of off topic activity
How very unfortunate for you. Sounds like being odd topic was against the rules. Were you off topic very often?
my posts are thought out more than most
That sounds good. Perhaps the reports against you were inaccurate?
Right. So only people using an iPad or notebook using broadband could use sock puppets. No more of you static IP sock puppets.
I don't have all the answers. Certainly not all the tech answers. The humans doing the review will also have to make a judgement about whether numerous rpts are sock puppet related.
Of course the review of the reported comment shouldn't be affected be the number of rpts. 1 rpt=review. In this way numerous rpts (by sockpuppets or not) or meaningless.
That should be enough disincentive for the low lifes who would choose to disrupt the forum.
If anarchism is about having a non-hierchal system, we should start here. I have humbly found in my work-life that some of the best ideas came from people who are new, so these people should not feel intimidated by someone with say 18,000 karma points.
For anyone coming here for the first time, and looking at the people who had the highest karma point totals, then seeing what they are saying, they could wrongly conclude that this movement is a DNC, or moveon-like site, and not about a stuggle that wants JUSTICE.
-They would not know about the manipulation that has went on here over the past three months in particular, where some posters here...somehow... have had their scores increase dramatically seemingly over-night..;-) !!
-They would not know about the multiple pseudonyms being used to down-vote people who are against having this place turn into a partisan place
-They would not know about the 'little people' who search the archives to vote down anything and everything that a person who is non-partisan has ever put up
-They would not know about the voting blocks that are used to punish people, and lead others to believe that their opinion of pursuing partisan politics is indeed the prevailing opinion here
It seems ironic, and amusing to me that the voting blocks here are remarkably simular....and kinda republican-like... to the ones in our not so hallowed halls of Congress where being a 'independent thinker' is discouraged, and doing what is best for the American people takes second place to a flawed self-serving agenda. In any event this forum has become a microcosm of what we all so abhor.
So what say you DK...are you ready to give up those 18,000 karma points for the good of this forum?
Odin
Take it up with the forum Odin. I could care less about the points. But there is the matter of who is new and who is a repeat banned individual and who has been here legitimately along time. Perhaps the forum will go with removing the accumulated points and just have the date an individual joined the forum.
Why don't you run that by the forum?
No argument with my honest sysnopsis on how the forum point system is turning into a stain on this movement....good.
Everyone here knows that you, DK have the inside track to the forum administration here. Everyone that has been here any length of time, also knows how the numbers system has been used nefariously in either supporting a partisan agenda, or in not suporting one. The latter though has not been near as efficient with these tactics as the former, in my opinion of course.
"Perhaps the forum will go with removing the accumulated points and just have the date an individual joined the froum." Yes, I could go with that.
If you really care about this forum, this movement, and you realize like I do that for us to get out of the 'mess' that this country is in, it will require a lot of people who are 'out of the box' thinkers. This forum has to be a place where those voices should feel welcome to express their ideas. They should have equal footing on here, and not feel intimidated by people here with thousands and thousands of karma points.
You DK by far and away, are the point leader here. You have the inside track to the forum administration here, not me, as we both well know ;-)
This should be your initiative DK, no one elses. Doing away with the point system is a positive action that you should spearhead, and you could start it by putting up a post asking for a simple.....yea, or na vote, as to whether the forum should do away with the point system. It's your call DK.
Odin
I don't know of anyone who have been intimidated by karma points. U seem to be fixated on them and trashy seems to get fixated on them. No - you have a problem with em you have a go at the forum. I am not here for your pleasure or your service. Take your playground challenge somewhere else.
Spose now you will do a double dare ya or somethin.
No DK...no "double dare" from me
I understand how important your points are
Although a bit disingenuously, you have answered my question very well.........thanks,
Odin
The numbers system is inconsequential. We can eliminate it for all I care.
Only a fool would focus any attention on it.
The issues that affect the 99%, and protest Ideas to create awareness of these issues is what we should focus on. Not numbers.
It's a waste of time.
So you believe that we should do away with the 'karma system?'
I agree ideas, and linking this forum to the streets should be our goals for this forum.
The karma system in unimportant. If the forum powers that be decide to remove the numbers, it would not bother me in the least.
The purpose/ideas I listed earlier is a better, more valuable use of this site.
If this movement is about having a more democratic system, shouldn't we all vote on whether the karma point system should be done away with?
I really don't care enough about it. I care more about the other issues I mentioned. But if there is an official vote I will vote to eliminate the point system.
This thread is a form of intimidation against high scorers because we look bad if we defend the point system, don't we? It's a real gotcha moment for you. Must be fun, huh? Well, I'm not going to be bullied.
This forum is strewn with bullies and I'm just sick of it. Has it not occurred to you that some people may actually have a high point score because they've been here for a long time and maybe people vote them up because they like their comments?
This thread is not about high point scores, but what they attract. We need to do a little house cleaning now and again or else the clutter begins to take over. If you saw my kitchen you would understand. Making a quick meal is not so quick any more when I can't locate a fork to eat it with. New readers here will have the same difficulty in locating a juicy thread to bite into if they can't find one among the clutter.
Every reply now get's a point to start with. Starting at 0 points makes more sense. Why encourage quantity of replies, especially by people who are happy to flood the forum in the hunt for more points?
Look, I search out good threads all the time. I just commented on a great article PK posted that everyone ignored while they're busy playing junior high here on your thread. Having each comment start with zero points is a fine idea.
Oh, and by the way, that comment by GF that got voted up was probably voted up so high because she is a very popular poster who disappeared for a while and people were happy to see her back. Myself, included. We need more women here.
I liked the Chris Hedges article too. He's top on my list.
Cleaning up the forum is not play time. It is necessary. We have become so comfortable living in a mess that after a while we don't even notice. Same with our political system. It is such a mess, but only Occupy is willing to roll up our sleeves and do the cleaning.
We desperately need new authentic posters here. 30 or 40 out of 300 million is pathetic.
If everyone spent their time commenting on meaningful threads that discuss issues that matter to this movement we'd be fine. New people would join in and all would be well.
I will never let up on Thrasymaque, the dissension causing troll, though. Never. I will bump his rotten threads in order to leave a record.
Yours and DK's continual war with Thrassy has had the opposite effect. Just like the noble, but illogical war on drugs, the aftermath it leaves is worse than the harm it tries to correct.
Nope. I do not agree with you at all. Sadly, Thrasymaque has succeeded very much so in reaching his goals. You, and this post, are proof of that.
Thrassy can't succeed without our cooperation.
Are you accusing me of cooperating with him? Seriously? I see a little fan club of his forming here and it's bad for the forum. He's a sneaky psychological game player. He's been here for many, many months.
Yes, without realizing that you are cooperating with him by replying, you feed his hunger for greater self esteem. I've watched him for months, usually leading DK around in circles. DK thinks he can win if only he fights hard enough. Like a knight valiantly dueling with a dragon, protecting the honor of our small kingdom. But Thrassy doesn't blow flames from his nostrils, he sucks in others self esteem to build up his own.
The problem is that's exactly where Thrassy gets his pleasure. The more anger, the more frustration, the more expletives that are hurled, the more Thrassy likes it. That's what keeps him coming back. And by replying to him over and over, even with the best intentions, he plays us like a violin.
Thrassy is a very intelligent person. He can literally walks circles around almost any one of us. I've actually learned more from him than anyone here. Both positive and negative. But he has a flaw. There is usually a hint of deceit in his posts. An ulterior motive that underlies his words. His objective to weaken instead of strengthen. To tear down instead of build up.
The key to defeating your enemy is to understand his strengths and weaknesses. And his greatest weakness is when we ignore him. It's like cutting off his food supply.Starve him instead of feed him. Here is an article describing the underlying psychology of trolls:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/life/7245308/Internet-trolls-have-low-self-esteem
To prove the point, try this. Don't engage Thrassy or one of his other numerous personalities for a month. Inform other members when they are engaging him of his real intentions.
I respectfully disagree with you mainly because most people have no idea when they are engaging with him. He tricked me just a bit ago with a post by waat, which he so kindly (sarcasm) changed after I and others commented there. Check out the forum from early this morning into the early afternoon. CarlAndrews ruled the place. He gets away with a lot when he doesn't get banned. I don't fight him. I simply out him where I find him. I have learned absolutely nothing, zero from him. He is a smart enough guy, but nothing he says are any pearls of wisdom that I haven't thought of myself. There are many smart people on the forum that don't need to bully and intimidate to get their points across. Thrasymaque has been very clever lately in hitting on the forum's achilles heels, of which, yes, there are a few. He's also good at psychological games. He has even managed to win over a fan club. Good for him.
The best way to deal with trolls is to ignore them. The same advice is given on nearly every article dealing with them. Here is another:
http://daily-grind.net/troll-psychology-an-insight-into-internet-bullying/
Your tenuous points and obsession on the matter of 'points' is less important than your inability and/or unwillingness to see that 'TrashyTrollBot' is very far from your 'run o' th mill' Internet-Troll. I read your link and it has very little to do with our situation on this forum. To totally "ignore" TrashyTroll is tantamount to being indifferent about the message and working of this forum and enable his 'work' !!!
'TTB' has been working towards the subverting, neutering and closure of this forum with his specious, duplicitous mendacities - for a long time now and you've been here long enough to know that. He won't stop any time soon despite the wall of opposition to him because this is what he is paid & motivated to do and his recent co-option of a few other posters through his insidious whisperings of faux-solidarity via PM, is something to behold, note and stand firm against !!
This is an expressly political (in a wider sense) forum and it stands opposed to many Deeply Embedded Corporate & Banking Interests, who would much rather that OWS be disrupted and eventually wither on the vine and fade into oblivion !
We are now less than two short months from another POTUS (S)Election and for The Pro-99% here - Quiescence Is Not An Option & To "Ignore The Troll" Is To Enable Him To Co-opt This Forum !! Thus, some here - if not you - will stand fast and do as we feel we must.
e tenebris, lux ...
Alright then have at them!
Good luck in all your good efforts!
I agree! We should identify the c opted posters and commit to ignore them as a group.
We should agree to this course of action through PM ad execute. See what happens if we can organize against the TTB, & friends.
I willing.
Cool! When a troll attacks using an unidentified alias, we should OUT them, but publicly so even new readers can avoid useless conflict.
Ignoring trolls is the logical action. It seems the pro engagement people really do it because they enjoy the fight as much as the troll. But their pleasure comes at the expense of the entire forum.
http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/report_internet-trolls-motivated-by-low-self-esteem_1712664
Nope. 'Planning by PM' is exactly what the 'TrashyTagTeamTrollBot' is all about - I don't propose fighting fire with fire or wasting time in any cliquey 'counter-conspiracy' conspiracy-clique, lol . I advocate pissing on their embers in public and often by anyone who is aware of the situation & can be bothered to do so.
ad iudicium ...
Pissing on their embers IS like pissing with gasoline. Fighting fire with fire.
I would like to hear your argument for the effectiveness of engaging trolls. I find no supporting evidence on the Internet and plenty of evidence on this forum which points to the contrary..
I do not owe you any explanations for your quandaries and your opinions are about as useful as a perforated condom. NB : There is life, knowledge, opinion and common sense beyond "the Internet".
I claim NO knowledge about 'Internet Trolls' - but I DO claim both knowledge and experience about at least one of our 'Forum Trolls' here. Your opinions on this matter are of no further interest to me ; I am bored with this & have bumped your irrelevant 'forum-post' enough already.
Your de facto defence and apparent deference to 'TrashyTrollBot' is noted.
et cui bono ?
What allows a troll to disrupt a forum is for it's members to engage him. Like throwing gasoline on a single flame.
Thrassy is still here. The strategy of engagement has completely failed. And the plan now, more of the same? Pure lack of logic.
I have taken part in the battle. even enjoyed it a bit, but I agree it is bad for the forum. Not everyone agrees so the effort won't be effective without all in agreement.
Barring finding him & snapping his fingers backwards at the knuckles - Of Course Trashy is and will be here. I agree with you there. However, you also advocate a spurious 'non-engagement' and a de facto license to roam & he do as he pleases in his clear efforts to subvert this forum and steer it by trying to bend it to his will. You're apparently quite alright with that "logic".
However, for some here - No, That Will Not Do !!! Not whilst some of us here still have a backbone and still know what our truths are and what is needed to be fought for !! You do not have any unique "logic" or the "lack" thereof even. Like myself and others, you only have your 'subjective reasoning' but trying to pass this off as 'objective logic' is specious with an unmistakeable whiff of hubris. But still you'll push your 'point' - such as it is, right ?!
ad iudicium ...
"Baring finding him & snapping his fingers backwards at the knuckles"
Your "backbone" strategy does not work. Can you explain why?
What "does not work" ? For effect, you cherry pick a cheap phase for a cheaper trick but really only seem to desire a pedantic, specious and useless argument.
Consider - that as I do not share your tenuous at best, premise - then explaining "why" is an invitation to 'logical fallacy' lol ! It would be like pissing in the wind after being invited to shit on the pristine lawn of your argument with yourself !! Your intelligent enough - go argue with yourself and knock yourself out !!!
verum ex absurdo ...
What I see is everyone being labeled a shill, troll, sock puppet, almost at random for any new user that disagrees. And some long term users that flip their lids after hearing the stigma thrown at them 1,000 times. Getting a conversation going that is based on substance shouldn't be a fight.
A lot of this is due to Thrasymaque and his skills at causing division. It has taken a real toll on the forum. Let's all try to follow good threads, if some like the partisan threads, so be it. That'll be over in 8 weeks, then what are they going to talk about?
Thrasymaque? That name/reason has become as ubiquitous as water and I'm not thirsty.
Good for you.
From what I can see of this forum, I agree with you.
Hmmm. Nice Moniker & Gnothi Seauton ;-)
I do know myself, and I do not mind going up against the multitudes here for what I believe is right. Odin
Thanx 'O' & I have a soft spot for all things 'Dionysian and Apollonian" ! I have a significant concern re. your "against the multitudes" which reveals much, I fear !! Consider, "multitudes" = The 99% !!!
multum in parvo ...
The "multitudes"... here are not the ones out... there. The "multitudes" are who kept slavery in existence for so long. I know with your intelligence, that I don't have to tell you about Tyranny of The Majority.
Isn't this about: "Never doubt[ing] that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Meade cultural anthropologist
I'm not at all sure of your point but if you meant actual "slavery" then that was sustained & perpetuated by a small 'minority'. If you meant the more metaphorical "slavery" of '21st century High Finance but Low Ethics ; 'No Trickle Down just Hoover-Up', Crapitalism' - then that too is perpetuated and maintained by a Parasitic Minority (~0.01%).
Give Me The Alleged "Tyranny of The Majority" & let's give it a try - I say, cos it sure as shit hasn't been tried Anywhere that I know of - ever !!! I like Margaret Meade's words - but it isn't 'All the Picture' - by ANY measure !! In short - I'm none the wiser from your comment despite my so called "intelligence" !
minima maxima sunt ...
demand elections be national and state holidays
both parties ignoring this idea for four months suggests that both parties are afraid of the majority
"both parties are afraid of the majority" - no doubt about it ;-)
Let's look back to a time that I can remember as a kid, The Jim Crow, and Civil Rights Era. You don't think that a majority of people in this country were 'content' in keeping African Americans as second class citizens? I was old enough to remember my dad being ridiculed for having went to MLK's March on Washington. What about the women's suffrage movement?
I do not have your personal experience or perspective but no, I do NOT "think that a majority" were "content" - because they only just went along with the 'received wisdom' status quo without any 'really thinking' about things. I don't mean to be pedantic but that is not really 'contentment' because it is more thoughtless quiescence. I think that most people are good and possess 'ethical compasses' and know 'right from wrong' ; 'truth from lie' ; 'god from bad' IF they are allowed to think about things. I like humans and still have faith in them. I like the thought of your Dad and detect his spirit in you.
Finally, re. "women's suffrage" - well thank goodness for that and consider - the fairer, more reasonable, more conciliatory, more communautaire sex - still 'suffer' us idiot, egotistical, warlike blokes - just a wee jokelet to try to make more than one point ;-)
verbum satis sapienti ...
Thanks for the compliment about my Dad. As i am sure you know the obstinance that Scandinavians are famous for can work for both our benefit and detriment ;-), and perhaps anyone in our vicinity. lol I am not here to be obstinanate just for the sake of being so, Rather I am following my beliefs, and I do not see myself acquiescing on this.
I agree that many people went along with the "received wisdom of the status quo," but that does not absolve them from the responsibility of having done nothing while these injustices were being perpetuated. If your brain is functioning, and you have any type of moral compass, it was not thoughtless quiescence, but rather a willful ignorance at best.
Oh how I admire people like Margaret Chase Smith, Oscar Schindler, or Raul Wallenburg, or the many others who stood up for what was right, when it was not popular or easy to do so. Would i have had that courage? I would like to think so, but I guess I will never know.
Odin
End the vote??
No.
It's an absolutely ignorant idea.
OK. Tell us why we need twinkles.
It helps keep the Mr.P people and the white power fucks at bay.
Would you like them at the top of the list?
It was tried once at the behest of thrasy and failed miserably.
You've been around long enough to know that.
Who cares who is at the top of the list. End the best comments because there usually are none. A great post depends on all of the replies, not just one comment. Put posts at the top based on number of replies in a certain amount of time. If a post is worth looking at, the score will be reflected by how many replies it received.
That's your opinion.
Bots would run rampant under your proposal.
Well right now the point seekers run rampant. Hmm.12433. I wonder how many replies it took to get that many points? How would you set up the forum to make it more fair?
What you call "point seekers", are actually long time forum users.
Why must you denigrate to make your point?
The point is illustrated by the score of 12,433 points. That's an average 34 points per day, 7 days a week for a year. How many replies did that take to get that many points? And who wants to wade through a mountain of posts that are placed just to score points.
We need quality discussion, not quantity.
How would you set up the forum to make it more fair?
Still would like to know
What's it to you, how or how many points I have?
You're the one hanging crap on that.m You started this stupid distracting thread.
How I would improve it, is a whole different subject and I won't place it here, as I'm through with this thread and will pursue having it removed.
It's not like you've been playing the quality post game anyway.
This thread is meant to clean up this house of ideas. The clutter of useless banter makes it nearly impossible to carry on useful conversation.
All this thread did was create more useless banter.
More useless personal attacks.
I for one am glad it's been blocked.
Let it die the forum death it deserves.
It's designs were nothing but divisive.
This thread is meant to be divisive. To separate the wheat from the chaff.
Points divide by creating hierarchies. Threads bring people together through the power of discussion. Now, give me a twinkle for that.
That's all in your mind.
Let this piece of shit thread go, and give us some comments on the teacher strike.
Consider the twinkle an internet hug.
let's discuss points more
that should increase post count
I think giving control of each thread to the owner of the thread, such as removing comments. Then having a master Mod for judging the overall quality of threads with the ability to remove only threads. Mods should notify a user if their thread is becoming out of line as a warning before banning the thread. Violence should be zero tolerance offence. Prioritize the thread list by most active thread within a given time span instead of real time. I think this is a much more horizontal form of managing. Not that it matters, we all have opinions I guess.
Veto power by the poster? No. They'll remove replies just because they disagree. Let's make it direct democracy and as free from moderation from Jart or whoever is in charge as possible. Few replies get the post sent down, more replies sends them up.
Users with a history of censorship would loose participation on their threads and their threads would die, people would stop replying to them in general. Slowing threads down to prioritization by popularity and update every 15-30 minutes instead of real time per comment would also give more preference to real popularity. In contrast to what it is now with moving a thread based on one comment.
the quality of threads depends on our efforts
So judge the quality of each users comments while you read. Twinkle/Stinkle
Master mods? Judge mods?
What the hell is that?
Why don't you comment on more pertinent threads?
I could bring some up for you.
Prioritize by activity? That's a bot runners dream and a sock puppet holiday..........................So no.
Absolutely not.
Ok. Lets break this comment down into a civilized tone.
I am sensing a dislike for censorship.
so... regardless of your stated opposition to the idea, in the end, it doesn't matter.
You also think this would empower trolls.
I think having a master Mod for judging threads amounts to censorship and I disagree. I also think your suggestion of how to prioritize threads would only worsen the troll situation. I think the entire conversation is pointless and off topic.
You can't sense a thing. This is the internet.
This whole thread is off topic.
You also didn't answer a single one of my questions.
Am I also expected to pretend that you are not MrHyde?
Wait, isn't this where you guys would reply with some shill or troll comment?
Since I don't do that type of stigmatizing to put my opponent back on their heels, I feel at a disadvantage. You've caught me unarmed, sir.
Like many others that have come here just to stir up derision, you refuse to answer the simplest of questions..
And then attempt to play the coy innocent.
You are neither.
You aren't going to get me back on my heels. The oppression of dissent from the left is still the topic of the thread.
I'm not going to let you play coy either.
It's not like you have a thing to say about much of anything else.
You just came here to stir up shit and see your thread at the top.
There isn't much of anything else you've added.
You started this conversation, remember?
I noticed you were a sock puppet, and I hate sock puppets.
Especially when they try and act like coy little girls.
My biggest interest at this point is to get this bullshit thread taken down.
If you go with it?
So be it.
I'm sure your ego will just make more sock puppets to protect itself.
building bombs 'til bunkers boil
getting paid for shell filled toil
if I am to work tomorrow
lobe the load on foreign soil
yep US only pays 41% of the total world military budget
World Military budget in Billions (percent total) by Nation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
Global Arms Sales By Supplier Nations
39% United States
18% Russia
8% France
7% United Kingdom
5% Germany
3% China
3% Italy
11% Other European
5% Others
http://www.globalissues.org/article/74/the-arms-trade-is-big-business#GlobalArmsSalesBySupplierNations
TOP 10 Arms Produces
Notes: An S denotes a subsidiary company. A dash (–) indicates that the company did not rank among the SIPRI Top 100 for 2009
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/mar/02/arms-sales-top-100-producers
[Removed]
what are the important issues that face us ?
Obviously political and economic equality.
what about land ownership?
You have a very fundamental point there, Matt.
fiat lux ...
If we can't gain back control of the first two, all others won't matter.
OWS is about grass roots, about starting local and building up from there. Unless we get this forum in order, we can't be what OWS should be. The most important issues that face us are:
Get these two issues straightened out, then we can move to other issues. Start local the OWS way.
'Tr@shyTroll' : NEVER presume to tell the rest of us what OWS "is about" - you are singularly unqualified to do so as you've been working towards the subverting, neutering and closure of this forum with your specious, duplicitous mendacities - for a long time now. You won't stop any time soon despite the wall of opposition to you because this is what you are paid to do but your co-option of a few other posters through your insidious whisperings of faux-solidarity via PM, is something to behold and note.
anguis in herba - temet nosce ...
The voting system can be seen clearly on this user. I have made no political commentary until this morening. I made the case yesterday about the ad hominem style attack you are using right now, and obstruction of dissent on this forum from Obama supporters and I see they spent a few hours last night making sure this user name had no credibility from the point system. Not only is it part of the social stigmatization tactics being used, it's also childish.
You have no idea if you're talking to thrasy or Mark, or even an Occupier from the ground protests. You're simply attaching social stigma to someone making a point that you don't agree with. Add that to the obvious proficiency from you and 3 other long term users of "staying on message" and it becomes very clear that all of you have a lot of practice in MSM style political discourse.
The "votes" here are as irrelevant as your warblings. You're different voices but still speak with one tone and sing the same song - badly. So, re ...
OWS must be aware of attempts at 'guidance' and co-option and would be co-opters from 'all sides' - especially 'fair weather friends' & for insights into your "politics" :
e tenebris, lux ...
lol. I didn't even finish high school buddy. Yeah, thats right. Takes all of you to gang up on one guy with an 8th grade education. Bet you feel Big and Mighty now. To bad for the campaigners on here that education is not the same as intelligence.
Not sure what your beef is with Bard but I welcome their involvement so long as it stays open and transparent.
I have no post-18 'education' either but of course if you're Trashy, I don't believe you as I would have bet good money that went to 'Brown' !! "Education =/= Intelligence" & that IS something we can agree on ;-)
fiat lux ...
lol. I'm not thrasy. I did tell you though that you were all over using that name. Guess who?
'O' --- 'Mr. Hyde', I presume ? LOL !
pax et lux ..
Well I'm not thrasy. Do you even examine the text, organization of reason? Anyone can recognize patterns, open them eyes.
To a degree, I accept what you say but consider that there is the 'specific' ; there is the 'generic' ; then there is a 'TheTrashTrollTeamBoT' & co-opted or otherwise, they may all now stand or fall together !!
caveat ...
Stand or fall? For voicing opposition to partisanship? What exactly is so extraordinary about that idea? Occupy is still doing that on the ground to this day. Is anti-partisanship no longer part of the message?
It's a stuck record and it's very boring indeed ! I don't give a flying-fuk for Obomber or Romoney and if you really are an established poster here as claimed, you'd knOw that !! 'Partisanship' is one if The Most Boring Words on this forum one could imagine and with November only two very short months away, let passions forth I say because very few of us here are fooled by DemoCrap or RepubliCon and The Real Work Starts After The POTUS Race & gd fkng lk to the lot of you IF The Romulans get in !!!
Having said that - I personally think that a 'Romoney & The Romulans', Regime will make things so worse that outright urban & rural revolt may break out all over The U$A and things perhaps 'have to get worse to get better' but y'all may go beyond 'the point of no return' & end up Overtly Fascist !!
'Partisanship' is the latest 'TrashyTroll' buzz word and talking point to further drive and embed wedge issues into this forum. So he and his underlings are and will continue to be strongly opposed !
ad aspera ad astra ...
So you replied to a thread about the point system, I replied, on topic, about why I dislike the use of the voting system on here, you took the conversation to appointing me a troll, I defended that I'm not and you were engaging in attaching a social stigma to me, instead of acknowledging my defense, you Man up with Rage(Grrr) bluster and all. This is where you guys keep taking it. You refuse to acknowledge any criticism over your long term partisan bullshit and calling everyone a shill or troll or thrasy, and this is always the recourse when you get called on your bullshit. You can't just keep attacking everyone and accusing them of attacking you for defending themselves. What about that do you not get? Ruling the forum by a club of social exclusion from the Obama drones.
Very boring indeed & you really need to get over yourself ! If you expect equanimity about "partisanship" at at time like this {2 months before POTUS (S)Election} then the extent of your delusion is breathtaking if not revealing !! Re. "your long term partisan bullshit" - good luck with trying to make that stick to me !!!
Re-read my previous comment. IF you still don't get it - then so be it. I think that I know quite a bit about abrasive, egotistical, contrarians - I used to / still can, be ... one, lol.
nosce te ipsum ...
Essentially you don't agree with me just as I don't agree with you. The only difference is that your position is entirely based on ad hominem. You make your point by claiming I am a paid poster from Bard even though you have not one shred of evidence for this claim, and even though it would not matter one bit because attacking the proposer instead of the argument is a well known logical fallacy.
Using ad hominem and a cute Latin proverb is not providing a counter-argument.
Neutrino, you seem too angry. I agree about the election being a waste of energy, a diversion, a tool of legitimation for the boss (better than the number?) percent, but just let people work through that stuff.
If you want another forum, visit occupy Raleigh's forum. I've been trying to reawaken them.
LOL 'ogoj', be careful what you wish for mate ! Also please consider : 'TrashyLeptonBoy' would really have us all decamp from this forum - as that is his true intention !! SOLIDARITY @ OccupyRaleigh !!!
pax et lux ...
I'm not angry in the least. I come here to practice my English writing skills.
Normal circumstances do not apply to you trashy - as you are not a normal troll. You have been on a mission for months and months to disrupt this forum. You have been a constant pest - and until you decide to go away - that is what you remain - A PEST.
No matter where it is coming from, I believe it is a good idea to be challenged, especially since so many of the contributors here are so far removed from the beliefs of the people nearer to the heart of this movement. I would like to see the negative characterizations, red baiting, and vitriolic speech come to an end though, and I will do my part to try, and make that happen
I bring ideas to the forum. These ideas often generate a vast amount of comments. You choose to reply with ad hominem which is fine. It's your decision. Unfortunately, logical fallacies don't make ideas go away, they reinforce them because it makes it look like you have no counter arguments of worth so you must desperately latch on to simple fallacies.
You bring nothing but attempts to disrupt divide and misinform.
Alors .. quel debacle et quel dommage n'est ce pas ?
Back to your 'Illogical Fellatio' now - s'il vous plait !
nosce te ipsum ...
And now, a red herring.
So, violent thoughts and more hubris now huh ? As per :
"What I say here, I would say in person. But, if you met a guy like shadz66 and he finished all his sentences with a cute little pedantic Latin proverb you or one of your friends would punch his teeth out before the end of the night.
"The difference between a guy like me and a guy like shadz66 is that I actually did my homework. I studied all my life and I'm versed in many disciplines. I don't need to pull up little quotes from a book to make myself recognizable. I make my own quotes and they are much more memorable.
"In one year, who's going to remember shadz66's nosce te ipsum.... or angjis in herba" (sic).
It's ALL good. You're beginning to grow on me now Trashy ... like a tumour, lol !!
cura te ipsum ...
Kinda dig your style sometimes.
I imagine you with an exasperated look on your face murmuring to your computer "ad hominem, appeal to motive" ending with some colorful words.
...the end of that thought may have been a little self projection
Nah, it's more like I'm thinking "Geez, I bet if I saw a picture of this shadz66 he's be some 19 year old pimpled face geek with a Coca-Cola pot belly and his dad's Latin Proverb Almanac underneath his armpit. Why do I waste my time with that?"
What I say here, I would say in person. But, if you met a guy like shadz66 and he finished all his sentences with a cute little pedantic Latin proverb you or one of your friends would punch his teeth out before the end of the night.
The difference between a guy like me and a guy like shadz66 is that I actually did my homework. I studied all my life and I'm versed in many disciplines. I don't need to pull up little quotes from a book to make myself recognizable. I make my own quotes and they are much more memorable.
In one year, who's going to remember shadz66's nosce te ipsum.... or angjis in herba
People will remember Partisan Powers, Twinkle Team, Bridge To The Ground, Don't love Obama, love OWS, etc...
Actually it's "anguis in herba"='snake in the grass' & "nosce te ipsum"='know yourself' & if the cap fits !!
Re. - "The difference between a guy like me and a guy like shadz66 is that I actually did my homework. I studied all my life and I'm versed in many disciplines." Oh Golly Gosh .. 'woe is me' ... I'd better hush - I feel sooo inferior and intimidated now .. NOT, lololol !!!
temet nosce (= The Latin Phrase above the doorway from "The Oracle's" kitchen ;-)
You sound like a bully! A self congratulatory bully at that! A bit egotistical as well. Is being remembered in a year, (or at all) important to you.? Is that one of your goals here.?
Kinda pathetic. Ain't you got no life, or people that love you for that?
Perhaps when you come here you can focus on finding ways to protest the injustice done to the 99%.
what I say is more important
however, my legacy is all I have as proof of my diligence
You know I was talkin to neutrino right.?
I would submit your legacy is more than your contribution on this forum.
No?
neutrino doesn't care to be remembered hence the username mask VQ
He brought the remember thing up not me. I'm only responding.
understood
Do you think writing on this forum equates protesting?
Not really. Why?
You said - "Perhaps when you come here you can focus on finding ways to protest the injustice done to the 99%."
I don't come here to protest. I suggest we change this site around and create A Bridge To The Ground so that this site becomes about protesting stories and protesting organization. That's an idea you are against. The only "protesting" you do is come here and call all of those who disagree with you "anti dems" or "republicans".
I didn't say you come here to protest. I said you should focus on ways to protest the injustice done to the 99% (You can call that a bridge, whatever)
Stories are nice, if it facilitates deciding new ways to protest on the street.
No change is required for that. If you want to do that. You can. Instead you spend all you time attacking people.
You say "That's an idea you are against."? Whaaaat? You don't speak for me. That's misrepresenting my opinion. That's not creating a bridge. That's dishonest!
You say "The only "protesting" you do is come here and call all of those who disagree with you "anti dems" or "republicans"."
That's just a lie. I've been protesting on the street for 35 years. To state otherwise when you have no knowledge is dishonest, That's not creating a bridge.
You spend all you time attacking people. You don't appear to have ant interest in building a bridge. You make no attempt to build, you only tear down.
That's how you will be remembered if at all.
Dude, when I talk about creating a Bridge To The Ground you get offended and ask that we discuss the various ways we can give Obama a blow job instead.
The first step to building a Bridge To The Ground is to NOT ban users who actually do protest. Your friend DKAtoday gets Odin banned. Odin is our more precious forum user because he actually knows what OWS smells and looks like. He goes to OWS events in the street! When you guys start accepting the views of others and stop banning people like Odin, then I'll move to phase two of bridge building.
Do not twist facts trashy - Odin got himself booted. As you get yourself booted - repeatedly. your 1st step in bridge building should be in building yourself a bridge to reality. Still no luck in finding a therapist?
You all do realize that while you are having these who got banned and why arguments, the Tea Party is out there getting people elected to office, right?
I saw the posts where you vehemently attacked his family.
you lie.
U R A LIAR - I never attacked his family.
Major red herring alert. The topic was about how you attacked Odin's fanily on the forum. Don't change the goal posts. It makes you look desperate.
You lie! All you do is spew false hoods. disruption, nasty mean spirited insults.
You are fooling no one.
You lied as you continually lie and I am waiting to see what the mods do with my valid point about your invalid presence.
Everyone saw your atrocious animal like attack on Odin's family. It was posted on this forum.
You lie.
Bullshit.
And I repeat:
Listen-up you piece of crap. In my book - and considering the rules - such as they are - of this forum. You should be an automatic banning every time you show-up.
Why?
Because you constantly attack individuals on this forum - individuals with whom - YOU - disagree. The forum does not disagree with these individuals - YOU DO.
What happens?
YOU get BOOTED.
You do not go to the forum and appeal.
YOU IGNORE THE FORUM AND RETURN IN THE FACE OF YOUR BEING BANNED.
YOU HAVE NO STANDING ON THIS FORUM.
Until you get the forums approval to be here - by petitioning the forum. You should be gone the moment you appear - each and every time.
You attacked his family with disgrace and outbursts of vengeful fantasies.
Listen-up you piece of crap. In my book - and considering the rules - such as they are - of this forum. You should be an automatic banning every time you show-up.
Why?
Because you constantly attack individuals on this forum - individuals with whom - YOU - disagree. The forum does not disagree with these individuals - YOU DO.
What happens?
YOU get BOOTED.
You do not go to the forum and appeal.
YOU IGNORE THE FORUM AND RETURN IN THE FACE OF YOUR BEING BANNED.
YOU HAVE NO STANDING ON THIS FORUM.
Until you get the forums approval to be here - by petitioning the forum. You should be gone the moment you appear - each and every time.
Bullshit.
Ridiculous, and offensive. You've never discussed building a bridge, I've never suggested any sexual acts with anyone. I have more respect than you.
You just personally attack everyone.
Please refrain from disgusting personal attacks.
You lie!
my friends are not violent
I wish could say the same about mine.
Are you part of the gay community, or a metrosexual? There's nothing wrong with that. Being a soft man with soft friends is in vogue at the moment.
lol
I'm not a coward that goes along with praising soldiers for doing as their told and killing brown people
The purity of your anti-war stance has done nothing more than constantly improve my respect for you, Matt.
Never let up.
No War!!!
Who does that? Are you saying VQkag2 or DKAtoday is a brown person killer?
hmmm. not as stylish. Just say'n.
Pooping Latin sentences here and there is not stylish, it's easy.
Lead by example. Show people how to appeal to motive. Practice what you preach. Stop letting them get under your skin. If they are getting under your skin, you need to step up your game. Explore new strategies.
They don't get under my skin. I'm not angry or revengeful, I'm just here to have fun and practice my English and to drop some ideas from time to time. It's just a forum. I do lead by example. I often take the time to formulate proper arguments. I don't go around here vomiting logical fallacy after fallacy like most of these guys and girls do.
right on. At any rate, I dig the "ad homien, appeal to motive" message.
Houston, we have a fuckin problem!!!
"End the points system!" I'll sign on to this. Then again, I only have a 100 or so pts., and will probably be down in the negative by morning....for agreeing with this. lol
This was a good posting, too bad it got banned.