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Forum Post: CALL TO ACTION: Get the Money Out of Politics!

Posted 10 years ago on Oct. 27, 2011, 2:43 p.m. EST by aphrodite837 (145)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

A frequent theme arising out of these discussions is that our political system has been bought and we need to get the money out of politics if our government is ever going to work for the people. It is time for us to stop just talking about it and organize ourselves towards achieving this goal.

I believe these are the steps we need to take:

  1. Brainstorm and critique broad ideas
  2. Vote on which plan (or plans) to move forward with
  3. Determine the specifics for the chosen plan(s)
  4. Determine a way to achieve the plan(s)
  5. Make it happen

The first thing we need is a focused, constructive dialogue. I have created a document to compile and critique the different ideas people have been presenting. Please add your voice to this document. When it seems that the document is complete, we'll figure out how to vote on it. (Maybe survey monkey or something within the Google Docs? I could use help with the technical aspects of all of this. It also might be nice to figure out a dedicated website, but I don't know how to do that either.)

Here is the link to just the current document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14MNou3pijCZ6WeRCinuOmwo75Ul20-fZrlraL7aCzUE/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1

I tried to create a collection for the different steps. It should be able to be accessed here: https://docs.google.com/?tab=oo&authuser=0#folders/0B1uM3kld9n8oZjYxNDczNzctYTA3MC00NzkxLWIyY2EtYWYyY2M5YzQxMGU4

In addition to your help refining the document, I need your help advertising this effort. If you see anyone posting about campaign finance reform, make sure they know about this thread and the document. Comment on this thread frequently so that this goal stays visible and does not get lost in the noise. If your family and friends agree with our goal, try to get them involved in the discussion online.

Let's all demonstrate that this movement can and will organize towards specific goals!

54 Comments

54 Comments


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[-] 2 points by elamb9 (112) from Portland, OR 10 years ago

I really hope OWS can move toward a concise focus directed at the root of so many 99%'s grievances - money in politics. I'm advocating the single demand of prohibiting private spending on public campaigns. I think this issue will have the most wide reaching impact, gain the broadest support, and will allow the 99% to participate meaningfully as both candidates and voters. Right now I can only think of two ways to get there www.lobbydemocracy.com and www.getmoneyout.com

I think there should be a minimum number of signatures that need to be gathered in order to initially participate. From there, public debates should be held and follow up polls should determine the top x# candidates. Those candidates should be awarded airtime, funding, and another spot in a debate. Repeating the debates, polling, funding cycle should narrow down the candidates until x# remain and an election is held. An election should look something like a tournament where the candidates with the best ideas/platform advance and are rewarded with airtime and campaign funds. With national elections, candidates must start local, and work up regionally through each level.

[-] 2 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

Thanks for your input in the document!

[-] 1 points by getReal (2) 10 years ago

Google hypothes.is for an approach for decreasing the ability of money to control politics by spreading mis-information

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

Make sure your voice is heard in brainstorming!

[-] 1 points by Idaltu (662) 10 years ago

One term for everybody across the board. Each term to be 6 years for Representatives, Senators, President and out with the "for life appointments to the Supreme Court". A supreme Court Judge would also be 6 years.

[-] 1 points by Bernie (117) 10 years ago

Good Post.......keep it up!!!

[-] 1 points by Indepat (924) from Minneola, FL 10 years ago

By the way, I've been trying to think of a single post that could get that part rolling. I wonder if I could do the same post a dozen or so time, and try to keep them up near the top, so that people get the message, and I may add that we have to call on the people that run this web site to give this single issue, more credence than the rest.

[-] 1 points by Indepat (924) from Minneola, FL 10 years ago

I love the effort, great job.

Personally, I think to achieve real change on this front, (Here comes the beating of the dead horse, sorry), a real and legitimate organization needs to form, one with actual leadership, offices, and actual game plan.

I wish someone involved with this web site would step up and on the front page, list this as the single issue, then create a separate forum just for this single issue, I think that would be the start to getting this movement to shift more in this direction. Right now everyone is all over the place. Someone official, someone who just may seem to be in charge, like the people who can post on the front page, need to step up and set this thing right.

does that make sense.

[-] 2 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

Have you seen this website? I'm thinking about forming a group there... http://www.openassembly.org

[-] 1 points by elamb9 (112) from Portland, OR 10 years ago

Great link!!!

[-] 1 points by Indepat (924) from Minneola, FL 10 years ago

No, just looked in quickly. Like I said, since this is sort of the De Facto official site. I think it's important to see if we can acheive some sort of concensus in here. But if that doesn't work, we will have to move somehwere esle. Just affraid that won't have the impact that getting this one to change will.

But I could be entirely wrong. This is just my perception and I'm still trying to figure all this out.

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

I agree with your concern. I feel like people are already split across a variety of platforms. Mostly for the same reasons that we are frustrated with this site. It's hard to see how to bring everyone together who is interested in this reform.

[-] 1 points by Indepat (924) from Minneola, FL 10 years ago

Yes, which is why we need to push for a sort of official stance from the actual movement and from this web site. I feel if they would just take some leadership, and said, hey all this other stuff is great but lets try and focus on this, many just would. That's why we need leadership, to point us in the right direction.

Like I said, Monday I'll try, not all that confident it will work, but if it doesn't I'll try and try again. Why not.

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

Why not has been exactly my stance. The open assembly website seems really neat. I'm tinkering with it a bit and I think I might form a group and advertise the hell out of it here and on the other forums. Maybe if the same idea is being pushed like crazy across a variety of platforms, people will take notice...

[-] 1 points by Indepat (924) from Minneola, FL 10 years ago

It's worth a try.

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

I totally agree with you that having an organized group would be ideal. I couldn't really get anyone on these forums to step up to work with me specifically on this goal. It also seemed like most people feel that we should be working on this through OWS. I agree with you, everyone is scattered. Even people desiring the same reform. I've been trying to keep my most recent post near the top. I've posted this in several other places. Someone put me on the following website: http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Get_Money_Out_of_Politics. (I'm still trying to get that figured out more before I change the link in this post.) I've asked the nycga through the website for a group specifically for campaign finance reform and I've heard nothing back. If you have any ideas for how to move forward, I'm all ears. In the meantime, please keep bumping this post. And if you decide to flood the forum with posts on this topic, please include the link to the document I'm getting people to work on. (This is the only way forward that I could think of doing by myself.)

Sorry that's probably a bit rambling... I've been a little frustrated with how much garbage people are spouting and how few people are really committed to any sort of specific, positive change. And also frustrated with the forums lack of organization.

[-] 1 points by Indepat (924) from Minneola, FL 10 years ago

I feel exactly the same way. It's getting frustrating and I'm trying to figure out how to actually have some sort of influence in this mess. It may take several failed efforts to finally gain even a little traction.

Now while this forum is a mess, it is the sort of official one, so I think it's important to push for change in here, or at least to try for a little longer.

I think I'm going to try that whole, a dozen simple posts asking for these small changes, some sort of polling post, the posting of this issue on the front page of this site, the creating on a separate forum that focuses only on the single issue, one that is monitored so that posts that don't relate to the issue are moved into the general forum.

But I'm going to have to do that Monday, because this will take quite a bit of effort to keep them near the top, especially with that ridiculous time limit on posts. I've got way too much going on this weekend, and will probably not be able to even get on until Monday.

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

Have you seen this website? I'm thinking of forming a group. We could continue to push here but also point out the group... (?)

[-] 1 points by Indepat (924) from Minneola, FL 10 years ago

I'd be open to that. I don't even think I'll go back to the other group I was in.

[-] 1 points by technoviking (484) 10 years ago

politics is about fighting for the welfare of the people.

money is part of that welfare

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

Can you elaborate?

[-] 1 points by technoviking (484) 10 years ago

i vote for politicians who represent my interest.

part of that interest is my wealth, my income, my taxes.

a business would likewise do the same, and because businesses drive the economy that keep people productively engaged in society, why would politicians not listen to businesses? especially if he has the $$ to push his agenda?

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

There is an absolutely logical way that we got here. Part of my interests are making sure that people who work full time can make ends meet and that they don't have to worry about becoming bankrupt if they become sick. My interests also include making sure decisions are being made to the benefit of the majority.

In fact, the people who drive our current economy are the consumers. Think of how much it would benefit the economy if the people of this country were employed with good paying jobs, health care and financial security. The increase in peoples' perception of their financial security and the increase in their disposable income would lead to more money in the economy.

The problem is that the majority are struggling just to put food on the table and keep a roof over their heads. We don't have the disposable income to buy politicians (or buy much else). Why should we be punished by not having our needs met by the government? Keep in mind that the people I know who are underpaid all work at least full time if not full time plus a part time job. I'm not talking about lazy people being disenfranchised. I'm talking about hard working people who want their needs considered by the government.

[-] 1 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 10 years ago

Vote away Wall Street!

Find the 1%’s pet candidate.

Defeat him.

How? Find who has the most WS / 1% donations. Vote for the opponent who can win. Defeat their pet. Make the big money a liability.

Any politician must have money to campaign, but as it works now, they have every reason to get donations from GS and every other overly-powerful corporation. More money works for them. Change that! Make the most WS money lose them votes, lose them elections. Then the power shifts. Voters become important. Corporate cash weakens.

They will have to see a few elections lost. Think of it as a training program: Pavlov’s politicians. Bad pol…no cookie!

Now, we would be voting for candidates who will not be pure. They will not be perfect. It is all about shifting power. Our power is votes. Their power is money.

We have to create winners. Don’t just hand the election back to the 1%.

We want to change laws, but right now a level playing field does not exist. The 1% has a stranglehold on the system. First we need to reduce their power and work our way to better candidates. Build power for the 99%.

Vote!

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

I think that is definitely something that people can do now, but have not necessarily been doing. Please feel free to add your thoughts to the document so that they can be considered.

[-] 1 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 10 years ago

Done.

Thanks.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 10 years ago

please repost this on the wiki.


I have been active here since the very beginning, and since the very beginning I have been trying to make some core points. These points clearly have not been digested or fully understood by the mob, and so I'm going to try to make a further attempt here again.

  1. Merely protesting in the streets will not bring change. In fact merely protesting in the streets is in fact a means to the end of avoiding the real work of a revolution, which consists of the evolutionary solutions, answers, problem solving process, and new political alignment we create.
  2. This forum is absolutely disorganized. It won't be read by most people and it won't and can't function as a core organizational system.
  3. Back at the very start of this, I petitioned the admin to add multiple sub forums and a wiki. Multiple sub forums were promised but have never arrived. I think that this tells us that the intention actually of this forum is message control and containment. The entire purpose really of this forum has always been to keep us spinning in disorganization. We are hanging out on a forum that expressly exists to actually keep us confused and disorganized.
  4. The real work of a revolution isn't going to happen on forums, it needs to happen in a much more organized fashion using collaborative software.
  5. The assorted other details about how to collaborate, how to work open source direct democracy, how to focus in on science instead of isms, how to become hyper rational about this, are details which are essential and crucial, without which we can predict the movement to fail.
  6. Technically speaking we are not 99 percent, we are one tenth of one percent attempting to represent the 99 percent. Our core mission must be to communicate to and with the 99 percent, and get them to join us. This forum will not accomplish that and neither will any of the other main websites.
  7. You can follow other people out to other wikis and other websites, where they will try to get you to get involved with what they want and their program, but frankly speaking, there is no other website and no other operation out there which understands the complexities involved with meaningful organization. In short, everyones being led to get involved here there and everywhere else, scattering the movement in directions which ultimately do not gain us critical mass, criticial momentum, or critical systemic lucidity.
  8. I have managed to get a wiki put up and have already put on that wiki evolutionary details which make it more organized than anything else. I can't do this alone. There are 10 or so wikis now out there, most of which were created in response to my pleas for a wiki, and several of which are in domains owned and operated by some corporation, (wikia, etc) And which we can thus assume will simply be closed, shut down, or deleted if they become useful to the movement.
  9. Probably at least half of the invites you have to go participate at some other site are people who are scamming everyone to waste time and energy, distort the movement, co opt it, and etc. When you walk off into a closet ask yourself how you know that the closet isn't created by some fed, or by some republican, or by some democrat, in order to sway things in their direction.
  10. The only meaningful strategic option we have for real change in this country is to create a new third party, and take every political office in this country.
  11. Once that is done, we can have an article 5 convention. If we have an article 5 convention before getting rid of the oligachs, that just opens the genie from the bottle for them to abuse that process with their corruption and evil.
  12. As of last night and this morning, you can't even answer responses on this site without geting a 403 error, logging in requries you to back click after a 403 error, and the chat simply doesn't load.

For these reasons, I beg of you to please immediately join me on the wiki. We need to have all of these details and all of these ideas put together in an organized fashion, rather than posted in a long scrawl which will never be read.

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page

http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ

http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw

http://www.opensecrets.org/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

Are you asking me to post my thread / document on the occupythiswiki.org? I would be happy to, but I can't figure out how.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 10 years ago

? its very simple. You just navigate to the issues area, and then create a new link. i will do this for you. http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Get_Money_Out_of_Politics

Now you have enormous room to expand, you can make new pages for more room by putting any words inside of [[....]] and you can organize this where it won't be trolled and etc.

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

This is cool! I think I got something decent put together. I'm a little concerned about the possibility of people needing to know html to edit, but hopefully I can clean things up if needed. If you have any feedback, I'd appreciate it before I put this primetime in my posts. thanks

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

OK... it's HTML... I've figured out line breaks.

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

I need help figuring out how to format. How do I get a line break? Some of the things added to the second page of the document are showing up in boxes. It's kind of cool, but I have no idea how to control it.

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

COOL! Thanks! I may need some more help with tinkering with that later. I'm not too sure about what all is possible through that website, but I look forward to figuring it out.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 10 years ago

as you have seen, theres infinite room for you to express yourself and organize your ideas there.

thanks for joining us, i look forward to hearing more from you.

[-] 1 points by Marlow (1141) 10 years ago

..Back this topic up .... 100%

... And Dont forget to stop the access the Lobbyists now enjoy to our Politicians.. for some reason those on the 'Hill' just cant say 'No' to all the Bells and Whistles!

[-] 2 points by elamb9 (112) from Portland, OR 10 years ago

I read an interesting rebuttal to disallowing lobbyists. Lobbyist can be seen as experts that speak on the behalf of industries and groups too complex for a politician to follow. Lobbyist are just spokes people for organizations and to prohibit their access to the political world would be a violation of free speech imho. However, the reason why lobbyists are so hated is because they buy influence rather than using fair and honest reason. Take the money out of politics and lobbyists are left to persuade politicians with good ideas and reasonable arguments. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Then, change the game!

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

If you think lobbying needs to be a component, please add that to the brainstorming document.

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

I can't read your message. I get an error message today every time I select a notification.

[-] 2 points by Marlow (1141) 10 years ago

ELAMB,, Again.. dead on in understanding the corruption in our system.. and Aphrodite... when u get the 403, you simply note in the address bar right after the bold.. occupywallst.org a number, and then a slant and another .org. just highlite and delete that part of the address and it should work... if you dont understand this.. let me know and i will find johnguys post that gave me that tip and post it back to you. Marlow. editor/ investors4justice.net

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

Hi Marlow. Later in the day, I saw a post that explained the fix. Unfortunately, the notification for your message was long gone and there doesn't seem to be another way to get to the messages.

[-] 1 points by Marlow (1141) 10 years ago

'Dite'.. Good morning.. here is the link to the topic ... .. http://occupywallst.org/forum/anyone-ever-get-a-403-forbidden-message/

Key: Between ' //occupywallst.org/'..and..' forum'.. Delete anything inside the two forward slashes. After '.org/.... and '/forum'.. keeping only ONE forward slash.

Practice, it will Work. Good Luck! Marlow

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

I know how to fix it. I just can't retrieve your message anymore.

[-] 1 points by Keepitsimple (110) 10 years ago

The people who are in “high” congressional office appear to have gotten celebrity status over time. They each actually represent a geographical section of the country. They supposedly “represent” the district voter’s wants and needs. They used to be called public servants. Look who became the servant! This celebrity status needs to be part of the reform.

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

I honestly have no idea how to achieve that other than getting "average" individuals in office.

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

I did incorporate some of the ideas presented in your document. The cap on donations, specifically, came completely from your document. Thanks!

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 10 years ago

No problem, happy to help!

[-] 1 points by JeffCallahan (216) 10 years ago

How are we going to get the senior congress members to essentually vote themselves out of a job. Attorneys are ordered by the court to defend for free indigent clients. In that same way I think media outlets should be made to donate a certain amount of air time, or print space to candidates. That would eliminate a lot of the money needed for campaigns. Also rather than the government giving candidates money to run give them staff. Maybe people on welfare. It's ok to have welfare programs but if you receive money you should have to show up every day for work.

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

Please check out the brainstorming document and add your thoughts. I think the first thing we need are broad plans, then moving towards specifics. The last step will be the how. I do understand, though, that feasibility is something that will go into the selection of a plan.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 10 years ago

Something you should know. Wiki "Direct Action". Read carefully and research this person.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/david-graeber-the-antileader-of-occupy-wall-street-10262011_page_2.html

http://nefac.net/node/2569

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

I'm not really sure what one person has to do with a group of people working together to direct positive change.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 10 years ago

You need to understand the intent. Please read both links carefully. And do some research. Wiki or google, "Direct Action" and the person that started this.

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 10 years ago

All I know is that I understand my intent. I cannot be responsible for anyone else's intentions.

[-] 0 points by brightonsage (4494) 10 years ago

Good luck forming your faction and to all of the others forming theirs. There is nothing like turning this into a large number of minorities squabbling among themselves for attention and primacy.

Being discredited for not having plans that are not for the most urgent, or not the most important or quickly accomplished. or that ignored some contingency or other or contingency is too radical or not radical enough or favors this group more than that group, or that is too simple or not quite simple enough, is how we die from a million paper cuts.

Never mind that we are winning. We just aren't winning the way someone envisioned winning. This is too soon, I haven't shot my best arrows yet. Or it is too slow because I am still writing the manifesto of all manifestos and I'm not quite done yet.

Right now 68% of the general population believes that taxes on the 1% should be raised. News flash: New study shows that 68% of the 1% believe that taxes on the 1% should be raised. WOW. We almost ALL agree on one of the demand we haven't written down.

We think that the 1% shouldn't be buying tax policy that give them huge breaks. Stay tuned. The 1% just might agree on that one, as well.

What will you do if they agree to all of our demands BEFORE we get agreement on them? Got any other hobbies?