Forum Post: baby is covered in poop; the baby is NOT poop; don't throw baby out
Posted 12 years ago on Jan. 3, 2012, 2:56 a.m. EST by maikeru333
(15)
from Ottawa, ON
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
here is some discussion on ron paul, which i summarized in a blog post.
i've said it before, but the summary of the article is essentially nobody's perfect, we all have bias, we shouldn't ignore truth just because we dislike things about a person, especially when we recognize some of those things as truth. Perhaps as a caveat to this, however, just because someone is speaking some truth, doesn't mean they would make a suitable leader/ president, or that all of their words are sincere, that they will actually carry out their values etc if they do believe in them, if they are in fact able to do so amidst the constraints other forces may have on them (ie move h2o with paul gross)
http://inner5pac3.blogspot.com/2012/01/accepting-those-different-from-us-those.html
http://occupywallst.org/forum/some-links-to-article-i-wrote-that-i-think-might-b/
This isn't kindergarten. I don't like Ron Paul. I will not vote for him, my family will not vote for him, my co-workers and my friends will not vote for him.
He will not become president. He will not run again.
He won't run in 2012 but Rand will. The ronpaul grassroots are a cash cow for the Paul dynasty.
We won't vote for him either, he has been a hideous wreck.
Why are ronpaul moles so persistent in their attempts to co-opt Occupy? Shouldn't you be trying to take back the Tea Party movement? They stole your clever name and catchphrases, go get 'em!
I believe that the Ron Paul religion may have hit a ceiling, just like the tea potty did. The RP fanatics are seeking political fanatics here ( like me ) who listen to the anti-war rhetoric and fall in love ( not like me ) and who do not do the homework to see the truth behind the curtain.
The NRA and Pro-life movements are single issue robots too.
"When will they ever learn?" - PPM
Libertarian Fanaticism & Fear.
ronPaul fanatics see OWs as representing the a well regulated Wall Street that cannot freely prey on Americans as it has in the past. The anarchistic RonPaul fanatics fear regulation more than anything in the world. Regulation and effective government oversight prevent the Wall Street bankers that RonPaul voters invest in from ripping off other Americans.
RonPaul libertarians want only the liberty to prey on others without the constraint of democratic regulation and government oversight. They are the mortal enemies of everything that OWS strives for and represents so they come here to disrupt, obstruct and subvert the OWS movement.
Tricking OWS, Liberals and Progressives is their only hope for "The One Who Stood By Reagan" to become POTUS.
The young are disproportionately left out of the current economy ( http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/07/news/economy/wealth_gap_age/index.htm ). The young are also, as usual, eager for change.
Among the disaffected youth, we see an extreme left and extreme right as well as the expected lump of folks near the middle. The extreme left tends toward a complete makeover of our government to better address the needs of the people; better government is the answer. We must also remember there is an extreme right wing that believes we have strayed too far from our roots; government is the problem.
Most of us are in the middle of the political spectrum. We generally understand that the system does not need radical change but a "tune-up" that restores our government to the people (money out of politics), imposes realistic and necessary regulation on the super-corporations, and cares better for those falling through the cracks.
Per http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/donordemCID.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00005906 , 86% of RonPaul's supporters are young males of the Republican slant. These young men are just as annoyed as everyone else at the way things are going, but they believe the fixes are all from the right side of the spectrum; less government, more free-markets, etc. By their demographics, they have little chance of appealing to the broader electorate, yet they persist.
There are a couple of common themes that appear to bind the disparate range of politics within this movement into one. Primary amongst these are the belief our current government is ineffective and that our personal freedoms are eroding. There is also a commonly shared belief that much of what ails us originates in some form of conspiracy or another. These beleifes are what bind us, and they are what causes the disaffected young men to feel they should be part of this movement.
Unfortunately for the young male Paul fans, their solutions are so diametrically opposed to those of the center and left that comprises most of the OWS supporters, that they receive little support here. This makes them feel "diss'ed," and pushes them toward ever more vocal assertion. They are simply amazed the rest of us don't see the "truth" which is crystal clear to them. It has to be frustrating.
Bottom line... this movement is driven largely by young disaffected citizens who advocate change. Like any group of people, some folks have a different view of what needs to be done than others. The Ron Paul folks are just as disaffected as any of us, but their solutions simply don't resonate with most here.
How come so many people in OWS want to push for separation all the time? Strength in numbers.
Being a liberal has nothing to do with voting for Obama in 2012.
Essentially Ron Paul supporters share a similar problem with the status quo. Sometimes your enemy's enemy can be your friend.
I have yet to see Ron Paul people here telling OWS to just get jobs. When in fact the Ron Paul people agree with OWS on a lot of issues.
Occupy is a movement against the corrupting influence of corporate and concentrated wealth in politics... Ronpaul is against the corrupting influence of "government" in corporate and concentrated wealth... the exact opposite of what OWS stands for... and yes I've been here 1 day and I've already seen an "occupy a job" comment (parroted from Rudy Giuliani, disgustingly).
Rudy Giuliani? Why are you bringing him up? Go ahead with some of these other occupiers and act like you are better than others and exclude people from the group. That's what some of these people are doing. Not necessarily in regards to your comment but the one I originally replied to. That's why the group in my city is half the size (not because of Ron Paul supporters but because of exclusion).
Most Ron Paul supporters, specifically the supporters here, don't like the bullshit of Wall Street anymore than OWS. It's stupid to try and reduce your numbers because someone wants to vote for Ron Paul. That's just stupid. A movement works better with a lot of people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BveNioW3cVI
Hmm... sounds pretty similar, doesn't it?
You link to a video featuring Adam Kokesh, accomplished anti-OWS propagandist. Kokesh has described the Occupy movement as "fundamentally Statist at its heart" in addition to producing scores of anti-OWS ratfucking videos for his youtube channel. And this is your example of Ronpaul moles and Occupy "sounding pretty similar." Actually no they don't, if you actually pay attention to what is said.
The video wasn't about Kokesh and I'm not quite sure who that is, the video was about what Ron had to say. But cool you found a way to spin it. Keep pushing your separatism.
Being a liberal has nothing to do with thinking Obama is the right choice. Obama is just a third term for the Bush era. But hey, I'm going to vote Ron Paul if he get's the nomination, therefore I must be alienated and ejected from the group.
Ron Paul has been speaking out against these financial situations for a while now. But hey that must all just be a rouse to enslave everyone.
Who's to say who started occupy and who's co-opting? We are a leaderless movement with no demands. The movement is owned by no one.
You people really are idiots seriously, I used to stand up for you guys but you are all so miss informed with your "we are the 99%" stuff that you are making fun of one of Americas last hope just sad... And Ron Paul has even said he agrees with the 99% movement...
So if you don't like Ron Paul then you must want endless wars, the federal reserve, no freedom, no liberty, no individual rights, no internet freedom, no smaller government. You people are so severely misguided and lost, that it is laughable... Lol blaming Wall Street Greed? Really? Wall Street are nothing! The real problem is the federal reserve, but I guess you are all so arrogant about what you think you know, to look into things further...
Even if you don't like some of Ron Pauls policies, you have to agree with him on ending the federal reserve and bring the troops home.. And there is no need to be so arrogant and attacking of an honest man trying to help you out.. The OWS movement is a bunch of dopes.. I am sure there are alot of informed people there no doubt, but the mentality I have seen here with some people make me realise why you guys get such a bad rap.. Seriously why be so arrogant?
Why should the federal reserve be ended you ask? Well just watch this and find out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWH5TlbloU
Oh and here is a video of a bunch of you attacking Ron Paul then being made look like idiots when he agreed with you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cJCqw8XVw0
Watch both those videos and maybe you will broaden your horizons beyond wall street and mocking Ron Paul... Maybe grow up a little too..
Ron Paul is against civil rights (segregation ended and needs to stay that way) and against regulation (can you say Wall Street deregulation). Those two issues alone are a deal breaker for me.
The picture is much bigger than wall street... Try the Federal Reserve..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWH5TlbloU
I have no need to listen to his radical views on the Fed. Like I said, the civil rights is a deal breaker. It should give you concern about the man's ideology as well.
[Removed]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
[-] philosophersstoned (8) from Gypsum, CO 8 points 14 minutes ago
Why are ronpaul moles so persistent in their attempts to co-opt Occupy? Shouldn't you be trying to take back the Tea Party movement? They stole your clever name and catchphrases, go get 'em! ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
IDK Why are the Ant-Paul's so insane.
Try posting something attempting to co opt a libertarian site to any democratic candidate, and see how thy react.
OWS has actually been nice to these people for over 3 months.
Yet they still whine on, just like Mr. P.
They are indeed......libe(R)tarians.
Liar i get attacked and ridiculed for supporting PauI by a few here but that is the trick i really actually talk to more PauI supporters. The anti-Pauls spam, stalk to flag, insult and wont debate with facts but i am not too upset most after NDAA 2012 are getting the liberty message and see PauI was against it and one only a few that spoke out against it..
SO, little ms paulite . . .
iz your boy gonna arrest some lenders?
some faudulent investment banksters?
iz he gonna charge Levin/McCain with sedition?
iz he gonna make these things major portions of his political campaign, as the President did with the issue of withdrawal from Iraq during the last campaign?
In short, iz your boy gonna put iz money where his mouth is, and actually make a difference?
or iz he just another empty shirt?
just
like
you
Hey you do realize that almost everybody on this site hates Obama more then any other politician, right?.
so . . . what?
is this a popularity contest?
Vote for whomever you chose. I've been consistent in advocating that.
I've also been consistent in presenting my view of the President only when the subject comes up.
and don't tell me that pieintheskyzendog sockpuppet isn't yours
which I guess means that in your view I must be pretty influential . . .
so . . . little mz paulite . . .
iz he?
Actually you have not every time someone says that PauI name you flip and verbally attack them. Also you think by having many other names to flag and or are friends with the MODS people will think it's real discontent. Most people here have seen people like you go with impunity for anything you do and say and watched many banned for very small things. You and your buddy's have ruined your own image visitors here see your censorship no believes your fake crap. Most people also know because of that this site represents very little of the real OWS image. See look you and your buddy's tried stopping awareness of NDAA 2012 but NYCGA did not. YOU do not represent OWS...PERIOD
Who got banned for small things?
What kind of "small" things did they get banned for?
The only truth I see here, is that Zen doesn't represent OWS.
This is true, as they are still leaderless........um......PERIOD.
That's as far as i will help you, sorry. I don't need to prove myself why do you think the sites numbers dropped so bad after a month to month and a half. People see your censorship.... NDAA 2012 was not a conspiracy theory sorry.
It's an extension of the Patriot Act.
Was there ever any doubt, this would be done after that act was passed?
I had no such doubts.
How it will actually be implemented is where the conspiracies come into play.
Welcome to the Plutocratic States of the Military Industrial Complex.
You have been assimilated.
Guess what it is not a conspiracy theory the bill allows indefinite detention of Americans with out a trial and Obama ordered that provision.
NYCGA is in agreement "Not only does this act violate our first, third, fourth, fifth and sixth amendments, as well as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, but this Act was signed quietly this past New Years Eve violating what little trust remained between the people and their established government. We see what’s happening here, and we will not stand for it."
http://occupywallst.org/article/j3-call-action-against-ndaa/
Isn't it amazing what kind of crap gets enacted, when the (R)s back it?
Ask yourself, how many of the contributors to ALEC, will be profiting from it's passage.
Therein lies the REAL conspiracy.
Tard more dumbocrats then repugs voted for it... that is it only 7 did not vote for it. They all worked together to attack the citizens look http://www.opencongress.org/vote/2011/s/218
It was more than enough though, wasn't it?
Did you look into the ALEC question?
Back off guy, now you are wearing the "tinfoil hat". Why is it i use sources and you don't?
Just remember you are on the side of the 1% right now, not me.
Not at all.
Not even a little.
It's just reality.
Fear it.
Are you a FED i really have met no one dumber then you unless this is willful for some odd reason.
What do you think?
I'm CIA, FBI, NASA?
I'm just a retired auto worker, who's paid attention for many years.
Did you really love the Patriot Act?
74F63E81M-A6910.99666 zone 6 is ready for visitors. Please advise. ;)
You know why i am keeping your thread going? When a normal human reads this they will see the BS you fools spout. Never heard of COINTELLPRO? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO oh yea that weird thing called history again.
"Did you really love the Patriot Act?" I have said many time's no, i have asked the NYCGA to include that bill w/ NDAA to protest.
permalink after permalink.
I think you're the COINTELPRO.
I don't flip when someone reveals they are a paulite
I just simply attempt to address the error of their ways. He wants to abolish FEMA.
CNN
IBTimes
DailyPaul
that's not flippin
And I haven't attempted to stop awareness of the NDAA - I would like to inspire a bit less hysteria and some more practical solutions - I believe closing Gitmo and the issue of indefinite detention are inseparable issues. I don't think you can address one without also addressing the other.
It isn't my fault if you lack any clarity of vision.
And no, I don't represent the Occupy Movement - but it is an issue coming up at our GA -
do you think I should volunteer?
Maybe you are the guy from Memento? Go read the NDAA 2012 awareness threads again.
I am me
that's who I am - like it or not.
As for NDAA - here:
this is how it works:
Obama blasts Congress's limits on Guantánamo transfers
.
and the date again: January 7, 2011*
and you can read the rest of the CSM article here
Obama announces changes to Guantanamo detention policy
the rest of this politifact.com article here
Point Being
this is how they do - attach bullshit to the spending bill. The Congress tied the President's hands early in 2011 with defense authorization that included
Now we have a new defense authorization spending bill - NDAA - that includes further revision to the policy of indefinite detention.
Again, his hands have been tied by using the vehicle of defense spending bills to push bad policy on the public
You damn bot watch the freaking video already http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_ysdsxF3eo Obama insists on indefinite detention ~ NDAA bill to strip Americans of rights
dial-up
I'm on dial-up
You willful ignorance is just astounding hence my thread http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-zendog-delemia/
So how can you claim to be right without all the facts?
um . . .
because I usually am?
it isn't my fault, dude . . . honest
It is your fault you claim thing's you don't know. Who else could be at fault?
You've only been here, a few days.
Such a statement is Folderal.
Many of us have been dealing with the lie that Mr. P is, for over 3 months.
My biggest issue with them, is their absolute refusal to believe that he's politician, first and foremost.
I have been banned bring awareness to NDAA 2012 two times here. Now they accepted it as reality and have addressed it and they have not felt the need to ban me again.
This has to do with the efficacy of Mr. Ps career, in what way?
Under what names have you been "banned"?
lnfowar and lnfowars PS get me banned again it will only help our cause every time we get censored that many more awake.
Infowars is a conspiracy site. They always were. Did you miss that?
It's what Alex does.
Just like NDAA 2012 was to you fools till it got signed. Heck with you dolts it still is a conspiracy theory!!!
Perhaps you should look to someone other than Alex, to get your information.
Um everybody but you knows what is in this bill maybe you should pull your head from Soros butt.
Sorry, I must have been infected by the chem trails and HAARP.
Do you have any extra tin foil hats you can front me?
http://www.opencongress.org/vote/2011/s/218
Here is a conspiracy theory for you, the NDAA 2012 vote list.. NOTICE slightly more Democrats then Republican voted for it?
About those hats?
Can you spare some?
Teabaggers raised my taxes, and I can no longer afford one.
LOL see you are acting like COINTELLPRO see... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO oooo open congress i must be a crazy werido
Yes I saw a lot of warm fuzziness coming from OWS to paulites lol
What name were you under back then?
I've tried to be gentle, until the insults and denial start.
Classicliberal. I lost my password.