Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: The ZENDOG dilemma

Posted 2 years ago on Jan. 2, 2012, 2:12 p.m. EST by LongDaysnight (354)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Can you claim to be right without all the information?

[-] ZenDog (4028) 1 points 16 minutes ago

that was salon,

and I have read sections 1031 and 1032 of the Senate version - 1031 happened to have been stashed somewhere around 1025 in the online version.

and I repeat:

The President's statement sounded fairly clear on that bill

Levin / McCain wrote it - and it's a budget bill - which means it kinda had to get passed - it's one of the tricks of Congress - attach bullshit to the bills you know must pass

And I would point out that the whole confusion over whether terrorists are criminals or Prisoners of War dates back to bushite

The President has been attempting to address that issue - and Congress has stalled him - as have those who were screaming about the cost of trials in NYC

You just don't understand how this complex machine actually works ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink [-] LongDaysnight (87) 1 points 9 minutes ago

Obama ordered Americans to be included in the bill. Also i am not a bush fan. Are you sure your not frying now? Let me point out i spotted your stealth Obama support before you admitted to it. You are not nearly as smart as you think you are. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_ysdsxF3eo ↥like ↧dislike reply edit delete permalink [-] ZenDog (4028) 1 points 6 minutes ago

I don't you-tube

are you sure you aren't a repelican intent on privatization of every single function of government?

bty it is a video from Congressional hearings.

EDIT NOTE: Sorry ZEN for using you as an example cause i see many here do what you do. It just finally got to me enough i had make an example. This argument pertains to NDAA 2012 and what the bill authorizes and if signing statements have any legal weight.


This is for anyone who has not seen a FEMA camp. Look up Japanese internment camps and REX 84 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment <<<<>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84

It is nothing new. Right zendog?


More info for ZENDOG'S flag collapse trolls. This was a comment to him for proof of FEMA camps and they collapsed it instantly.

[-] LongDaysnight (87) -5 points 17 minutes ago

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-645 That's right H.R645 the bill Jessy Vantura brought on air before the government forced the episode removed.

SEC. 3. DESIGNATION OF MILITARY INSTALLATIONS AS NATIONAL EMERGENCY CENTERS.

(a) In General- Not later than 60 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of Defense, shall designate not fewer than 6 military installations as sites for the establishment of national emergency centers.

(b) Minimum Requirements- A site designated as a national emergency center shall be--

(1) capable of meeting for an extended period of time the housing, health, transportation, education, public works, humanitarian and other transition needs of a large number of individuals affected by an emergency or major disaster;

(2) environmentally safe and shall not pose a health risk to individuals who may use the center;

(3) capable of being scaled up or down to accommodate major disaster preparedness and response drills, operations, and procedures;

(4) capable of housing existing permanent structures necessary to meet training and first responders coordination requirements during nondisaster periods;

(5) capable of hosting the infrastructure necessary to rapidly adjust to temporary housing, medical, and humanitarian assistance needs;

(6) required to consist of a complete operations command center, including 2 state-of-the art command and control centers that will comprise a 24/7 operations watch center as follows:

(A) one of the command and control centers shall be in full ready mode; and

(B) the other shall be used daily for training; and

(7) easily accessible at all times and be able to facilitate handicapped and medical facilities, including during an emergency or major disaster.

(c) Location of National Emergency Centers- There shall be established not fewer than one national emergency center in each of the following areas:

(1) The area consisting of Federal Emergency Management Agency Regions I, II, and III.

(2) The area consisting of Federal Emergency Management Agency Region IV.

(3) The area consisting of Federal Emergency Management Agency Regions V and VII.

(4) The area consisting of Federal Emergency Management Agency Region VI.

(5) The area consisting of Federal Emergency Management Agency Regions VIII and X.

(6) The area consisting of Federal Emergency Management Agency Region IX.

(d) Preference for Designation of Closed Military Installations- Wherever possible, the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of Defense, shall designate a closed military installation as a site for a national emergency center. If the Secretaries of Homeland Security and Defense jointly determine that there is not a sufficient number of closed military installations that meet the requirements of subsections (b) and (c), the Secretaries shall jointly designate portions of existing military installations other than closed military installations as national emergency centers.

(e) Transfer of Control of Closed Military Installations- If a closed military installation is designated as a national emergency center, not later than 180 days after the date of designation, the Secretary of Defense shall transfer to the Secretary of Homeland Security administrative jurisdiction over such closed military installation.

(f) Cooperative Agreement for Joint Use of Existing Military Installations- If an existing military installation other than a closed military installation is designated as a national emergency center, not later than 180 days after the date of designation, the Secretary of Homeland Security and the Secretary of Defense shall enter into a cooperative agreement to provide for the establishment of the national emergency center.

(g) Reports-

(1) PRELIMINARY REPORT- Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security, acting jointly with the Secretary of Defense, shall submit to Congress a report that contains for each designated site--

(A) an outline of the reasons why the site was selected;

(B) an outline of the need to construct, repair, or update any existing infrastructure at the site;

(C) an outline of the need to conduct any necessary environmental clean-up at the site;

(D) an outline of preliminary plans for the transfer of control of the site from the Secretary of Defense to the Secretary of Homeland Security, if necessary under subsection (e); and

(E) an outline of preliminary plans for entering into a cooperative agreement for the establishment of a national emergency center at the site, if necessary under subsection (f).

(2) UPDATE REPORT- Not later than 120 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security, acting jointly with the Secretary of Defense, shall submit to Congress a report that contains for each designated site--

(A) an update on the information contained in the report as required by paragraph (1);

(B) an outline of the progress made toward the transfer of control of the site, if necessary under subsection (e);

(C) an outline of the progress made toward entering a cooperative agreement for the establishment of a national emergency center at the site, if necessary under subsection (f); and

(D) recommendations regarding any authorizations and appropriations that may be necessary to provide for the establishment of a national emergency center at the site.

(3) FINAL REPORT- Not later than 1 year after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security, acting jointly with the Secretary of Defense, shall submit to Congress a report that contains for each designated site--

(A) finalized information detailing the transfer of control of the site, if necessary under subsection (e);

(B) the finalized cooperative agreement for the establishment of a national emergency center at the site, if necessary under subsection (f); and

(C) any additional information pertinent to the establishment of a national emergency center at the site.

(4) ADDITIONAL REPORTS- The Secretary of Homeland Security, acting jointly with the Secretary of Defense, may submit to Congress additional reports as necessary to provide updates on steps being taken to meet the requirements of this Act.

It also further enables them in NDAA 2012 Uncollapse my messages below to reveal the light... I am done editing this.

114 Comments

114 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 1 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

Yea Zendog seems a bit of a phoney.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I do not accept the government detaining people indefinitely

the law is not just

[-] 1 points by nickhowdy (1104) 2 years ago

Don't put anything past this government....

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/01/new_nationwide_fema_camps_should_raise_eyebrows.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5DTrRyMzLo

Look what happened in the 60's..

There is no doubt we are being readied for a near future Police State to keep all the proletariat in line.

FEMA camps?...Why the Hell wouldn't they be doing it.

[Removed]

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Yes but you have to admit the "activation" of "FEMA camps" and what you're suggesting they'll be used for is pure speculation. I'd say the speculation has some credence but it is still speculation. Sadly we won't know how true it is until they are used or not used.

I'd be more concerned about the rising numbers of the TSA.

[-] 1 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

What did i suggest they would be used for?

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Considering you brought up Japanese internment camps and the provisions in the NDAA...

[-] 1 points by nickhowdy (1104) 2 years ago

Right.... American Citizens in a camp...Couldn't happen again?

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

I never said that it couldn't happen again.

I said, "Yes but you have to admit the "activation" of "FEMA camps" and what you're suggesting they'll be used for is pure speculation. I'd say the speculation has some credence but it is still speculation. Sadly we won't know how true it is until they are used or not used."

[-] 1 points by nickhowdy (1104) 2 years ago

True...But, I'm sure it won't be for a picnic or knitting club..

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Yeah most likely for another disaster like Katrina.

[-] 1 points by nickhowdy (1104) 2 years ago

Yep.. It's a shame to say it....Wasn't Blackwater down there? I think so:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi ...

Anything is possible..Anything...Just when you thought it couldn't get anymore f*cked up...

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

yeah and US troops went through homes tying people up and taking their guns.

Blackwater/Academi is wherever the troops aren't supposed to be. The under the table stuff usually. Like the guy's still in Iraq that don't count as "troops"

[-] 0 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Here is a dose of reality, i showed you history and bills that have passed recently i suggested nothing.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

You suggested what every person that brings up "FEMA camps" suggests. Otherwise you're just talking about Natural Disaster relief centers which they are stated as in the bill. If they are just that, then why bring them up? Are you saying they are just what the bill says? You called them FEMA camps. Alex Jones loves those 2 words combined. "FEMA CAMPS"

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Hey.............what is a delemia?

[-] 0 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

a very poorly spelled.......dilemma...???

edit: and suddenly, the spelling gets changed. What, no credit to me?

[-] -1 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

asshat i admitted i spelled it wrong.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

Just trying to help, pal...don't get your panties in a bunch.

[-] -1 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Actually you were trying to discredit!

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

Yes, I'm part of a vast network of former spelling bee activists working 24/7 to discredit bad spelling and finally stamp it out of the world forever.

[-] 0 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Ready for school? You were and are engaging in Ad hominem. What is that you ask? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem. Many of the stealth Obama supporters here do it repeatedly. Can't kill the message kill the messenger.

[-] 1 points by JimBeam (152) 2 years ago

So true on here. They can't argue the point so they find something completley off topic and attempt to use it to change the thread. It never works but it makes them feel better about themselves.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

I didn't misspell the word. Don't blame the messenger, blame the speller.

[-] 0 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Your age is showing better zip-up.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

You joined two independent clauses together and there is a noticeable pause in your phrasing. Try a comma, or a hyphen, or a conjunction word, it will read better.

[-] 0 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Don't you have a bridge to hide under?

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

Hell No!! Those things are crumbling (due to all the money going to the 1%) and are no longer safe to hide under.

[-] -1 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

I am surprised you were the first to catch that. Thank you

[-] -2 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

The choice in his head to claim to be right. Sorry dyslexia dilemma.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

So, what specifically is he wrong about?

[-] -2 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Obama ordering congress to put language in the bill to include Americans for indefinite detention in NDAA2012. Also thinking he is right without all the information. One more thing that a signing statement affects a bill.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Did the cheese slide off your cracker?

[-] -1 points by GreedKilIs (29) 2 years ago

Looks like plenty landed in your lap and turned into a green cheese farm. Yeah yeah yeah, keep crying about the injected beef being the reason antibiotics won't cure your nasty chasm.

[-] -2 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Hey guess what Queen of the Damned http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_ysdsxF3eo and Obama did not deny it.

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

So cause Bush did it it is OK now and it is also OK to do it to Americans? I read you loud and clear fascist!!

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

No you don't you big dipshit. The power already existed. It existed under AUMF. Now, do you know any information surrounding the link that I just gave you? Ever heard of Yaser Hamdi and Jose Padilla? Ever? Any time spent at all on this history? No? I see.

You should probably pull your head out of your ass before you talk to anyone else about facts. Yeah?

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Yes but the previous provisions had more restrictions, like in HR 6166 that passed during the Bush era in 2006. The new provisions in the NDAA barely have any restrictions.

Also you should be more polite. You're not going to persuade anyone of anything if you start out calling people a "dip-shit"

Also Obama signing the provisions makes it a lot worse. This is the guy who's supposed to be on our side and he pulled a GWB and signed it. They could have changed the law to NOT affect US citizens. But they didn't.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Trevor, I am going to be very blunt on this issue. Where is your post calling out the author of this thread whose title mentions Zen and is specifically posted to deride the man? Where?

Where are your posts to other threads where the author has taken things out of context to spread fear and propaganda? Where?

When you begin to stand up to the fearmongering that this alt and others are trying to spread then I will stop calling them dipshits. You want me to play by "rules" that others are unwilling to play by and I will not. If you can speak to me intelligently then it will be returned.

Now, as it stands in regards to NDAA, you look at the totality of the bill. Ok? The reality is that the authority was already there. You look at what was attached to it and the history of it.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

I don't think the provisions in the NDAA are anything to blow off whether similar provisions were used in the past. It's a big deal that our government thinks they don't have to abide by the constitution.

And believe me, ZenDog and I have had many arguments on many topics.

In simple terms, that "authority" shouldn't exist. Not quite sure what you're trying to tell me.

But yes, the "FEMA camp" pushers are definitely extremists on the issue.

If you were to follow my previous comments on the issue, which I don't expect you to because there has been so many, I tell people the "FEMA camp" ordeal is merely speculation.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

It isn't an either/or situation. It needs to be taken in perspective. That authority should not exist, however, you do know why that authority is present and where it came from. So, while I am not happy with it as a whole I do believe that it requires an objective stance. Not an emotionally charged reactive one.

There is a difference between upset and angry that it is there at all and directly trying to start unnecessary fear mongering. We did the FEMA camps scare in 2009, yeah? Problem was that it was a bunch of crap.

[-] -1 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

You are funny i will keep spreading the word and winning. bye

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

You lose. Put that in your crack pipe.

[-] -1 points by GirlFridaysMomma (-6) 2 years ago

You can't reason with methed out junkies. Thanks for trying. She's had the peewaddy bejeezus stomped out of her plenty, several times before she turned six even. Look closely, you'll see hornectomy scars since her lil brother, ZenDawg, chewed them off with his jagged rotten teeth.

[-] -1 points by capella (199) 2 years ago

gurlie, the ows poet.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Bush set the precedent.

Our laws run on precedent.

He opened the doors and signed the contracts.

I HATE all of it, but what's done is done.

Where is the judge with balls to strike them both down?

He was bought, by the corporations that are profiting from these "acts".

[-] 1 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Trying to get people to stand down to tyranny now huh? Actually it goes against the Constitution and that is our basis for laws. NYCGA recognizes NDAA 2012 as a threat to the constitution but you don't. Who's side are you on, really?

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Where did I say stand down?

I didn't.

I asked to look into what corporations will profit from this kind of legislation.

Who profited from the Patriot Act?

Who's district are they in?

How did it line up with the vote?

I'm asking you to look beyond the obvious.

Look beyond the conspiracy theories.

Go to the source.

OccupyWallStreet!!!

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Whoever sells spyware to the NSA is a big fan of the patriot act. I read this awesome article about Thomas Drake and the NSA. They have some crazy fiber optics deal that can spy on people in real time and make correlations between things said, as far as wire tapping and the internet goes, it's some advanced adaptation of ThinThread.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/05/23/110523fa_fact_mayer?currentPage=all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinThread

Companies like these guys make a hell of a good profit from the patriot act

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_Applications_International_Corporation

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Thanks for that.......:)

See what I mean?

They want to pass laws that allow them to use this stuff.

Do you remember Clinton saying, they were shutting down echelon, after years of it being the stuff of conspiracy theories?

They shut it down, and admitted it, only because they had better systems coming online.

Big brothers vision, is getting sharper.

[-] 1 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

"I HATE all of it, but what's done is done."

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

So you're saying neither one passed?

You're saying, no corporation will profit? You're saying it's not important to know these things?

And you have the nerve to call me COINTEL?

You should look into how multi pronged marketing/PR is done.

I have.

[-] 0 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Are you on a quest to prove me right? Stop putting words in my mouth.

[-] -1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

bty it is a video from Congressional hearings.

well get me the text copy I'd love to see it.

In the meantime I'll take this response as a yes - you are a repelican shill

the repelican party is DONE

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27542) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Somebody concerned with your influence here Zen?

[-] -1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I dunno - maybe. Claims to be a Lawn Raul supporter.

I mean, my god . . . .

Have you ever seen a FEMA camp?

Because I never have . . . .

Never.

I've seen FEMA trailer parks - on tv

And that fool wants to abolish FEMA

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27542) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yep there is a lawful appropriate and needed use for FEMA in responding to disasters in this country.

Let us work to see that FEMA is never abused. That's about all I can say on the subject.

[-] -3 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

nimrod did provide an interesting bit of history - from the wiki on REX 84

Rex 84, short for Readiness Exercise 1984, was a secretive "scenario and drill" developed by the United States federal government to suspend the United States Constitution, declare martial law, place military commanders in charge of state and local governments, and detain large numbers of American citizens who are deemed to be "national security threats", in the event that the President declares a "State of Domestic National Emergency". The plan states that events that might cause such a declaration would be widespread U.S. opposition to a U.S. military invasion abroad, such as if the United States were to directly invade Central America.1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 To combat what the government perceived as "subversive activities", the plan also authorized the military to direct ordered movements of civilian populations at state and regional levels.7

Rex 84 was written by Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North, who was both National Security Council White House Aide, and NSC liaison to the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), and John Brinkerhoff, the deputy director of "national preparedness" programs for FEMA. They patterned the plan on a 1970 report written by FEMA chief Louis Giuffrida, at the Army War College, which proposed the detention of up to 21 million "American Negroes", if there were a black militant uprising in the United States.1 - 8 Existence of a master military contingency plan (of which REX-84 was a part), "Garden Plot" and a similar earlier exercise, "Lantern Spike" were originally revealed by journalist Ron Ridenhour, who summarized his findings in an article in CounterSpy.9

Transcripts from the Iran-Contra Hearings in 1987 record the following dialogue between Congressman Jack Brooks, Oliver North's attorney Brendan Sullivan and Senator Daniel Inouye, the Democratic Chair of the joint Senate-House Committee:10

  • [you can read the text of the transcript excerpt on the Wiki

All of which just goes to prove that the fucking repelicans are absolutely terrified of the public.

fuckin Ray-gun

I'd like to throw a chain around that fools statue and skid it down Pennsylvania Avenue . . .

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (27542) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Ollie! Wouldn't you just figure.

I believe in preparing for the worst while hoping for the best, that way you don't get caught flat footed.

But I can Not see any good coming in planning to suppress the Public's will or their rights.

[-] -3 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I completely agree.

I mean, if someone suggests that there is an x percentage change of widespread dislocation of the U.S. population and they will need to be housed somewhere, and here is one solution, temporary at best -

well then I say, hey. That x percent is probably not measured in ten thousandths, more likely hundredths.

The fuckin righties are scary, huh.

fukin whack jobs

[-] 0 points by warbles (164) 2 years ago

What does FEMA do that a state agency cannot do with the state's own resources? What if that money was merely redistributed from the federal government to each individual state's disaster relief agency? what would be different?

[-] -3 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I'm sure someone at the federal level will want to over see the books and make sure the federal tax dollars are going where intended - which is primarily to rebuild infrastructure.

There is something like $30,000 available if your personal losses total that much or more, not sure of the details.

[-] 1 points by warbles (164) 2 years ago

Right. So, getting rid of FEMA does not inherently get rid of disaster relief. The Federal government would be free to concentrate on other things.

What if my house burns down? I lose $80,000. Because I choose to live without HO insurance. I don't get a dime from the federal government, and I shouldn't. The individual burden is no greater if 1,000 houses are burned down by a wildfire. Why should a bunch of people get money at once but an individual shouldn't?

[-] -3 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

Right. So, getting rid of FEMA does not inherently get rid of disaster relief. The Federal government would be free to concentrate on other things.

um, perhaps not - we should actually look closely at how fema is set up, and what precisely it does.

What if my house burns down?

What if you want fire insurance but can't get it, because you live in Texass and the insurance companies won't cover fire insurance in the drought land . . .

so what if we just did away with the insurance industry as a whole - get rid of em. They don't do any good anyway - always denying coverage, putting conditions in small print - or just saying:

Nope. That was water damage, you aren't covered by flood insurance.

or saying

Nope. You don't need that medical procedure. It isn't necessary

and by the time you can prove it is medically necessary you're already dead.

So - why not? do away with insurance altogether. Get rid of the bastards.

Fuckem.

Make it all one big public option . . .

[-] 1 points by warbles (164) 2 years ago

If I live in an area where no one wishes to sell me fire insurance, I will build my house inexpensively and energy efficiently out of adobe or rammed earth, which is an extremely ecological option and completely inconsumable to fire and rot.

Problem solved...

Wait a second, insurance is just a numbers game. The likelyhood of a wood house burning down in the desert versus the replacement value is higher than most people would pay for insurance. So two options: 1. reduce the replacement cost of the house, lowering the payment, or 2. let people build houses that are unlikely to burn down, reducing the likelyhood of having to fulfill an insurance claim. the scheme you described merely forces people in other areas, who make wise housing choices, to pay for the stupidity of others, whereas my freedom scheme causes people in desert areas to make wise housing choices or live in another location.

[-] -3 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

so hows that adobe hold up under earthquakes anywayz . . .

[-] 1 points by warbles (164) 2 years ago

Quite well. It can be fiber or steel reinforced effectively creating a fibercement bunker, though it is not as effective as my primary choice, which is rammed earth. That one is extremely durable and I would rather live in a properly made rammed earth dwelling than a typical wooden house during an earthquake.

Did you see the points I made in the above post? What do you think?

[-] -2 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

your freedom scheme is wonderful - but it fails to consider for one second that we have, today, the capacity to manufacture consent . . .

  • for anything

Which means if a few smart cookies come together, and market wooden homes in your area, buy and sell them a few times among themselves, they may be able to drive the market price of your own home down, just because it is made of adobe - and all your neighbors will then be building in wood.

Why? Better home value, that's why.

  • perception is everything
[-] 1 points by warbles (164) 2 years ago

Sure they can. Just as they can drive the value of my house down by any of a variety of means they have, from not mowing their grass to painting their roof blue and purple. I do not have a right to make them mow their lawn unless they agreed to, and I do not have a right to sell my house for a particular value, and I wouldn't want to anyway, because I hand made it myself from adobe and I am attached to it. So if they lower my home's resale value by being jerks, I only benefit because my taxes would lower with my assessment. Let them build their wooden tinderboxes for all I care, the whole point is that if I make a smart housing choice I should not be punished by being forced to pay the subsidized insurance premiums of my idiot neighbors in wooden houses. And with the money I saved building the house myself out of dirt, I can afford a larger piece of land to put it on, making anything they try to do to lower my value irrelevant. Or I can choose to build collectively with the nice people at the nearby commune, who are not going to try to hurt my and are more than happy to have me as a neighbor. Repeat comment above about subsidized insurance for people who make poor housing choices.

[-] 0 points by GreedKilIs (29) 2 years ago

Idiot fool, all states have their own version of FEMA, operating out of FEMA. Let's be left wing bottom feeders that demand as much duplicity and redundancies as even the unborn cannot possibly afford. Go bigger government!

[-] -1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

You sir, are absurd.

[-] -3 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

do you even have any clue what any of these government employees actually do?

[-] 1 points by GreedKilIs (29) 2 years ago

yep, spend lots of money that the government does not have

you fucking idiot liberals need to learn how to balance a check book

[-] -3 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

yo - fuck wad

we need a two track solution to the debt - neither depend on forcing granma to chose between cat food and paying rent

  • short term - end bushite tax breaks and corporate welfare

  • redesign tax code so it is

    • competitive with other nations like Ireland

    • pays down the debt without forcing granma to eat cat food to pay the rent

goddamned kool-aide drinking nimrods and fuckin scumbags`

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Ireland is in worse shape than we are. There is no way out of this financial mess. Its either end the wars and SS or end medicare.

[-] -3 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

that's a false dichotomy.

And my understanding is that Ireland is more attractive to business investment because of their tax structure. I'm not an economist - that' just what I've heard.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by GreedKilIs (29) 2 years ago

You take care of your granny, like you should. Oh that's right, that can't happen, all her spawns are just like you, incapable.

[-] -1 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Look up Japanese internment camps and REX 84 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment <<<<>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84

But you won't we already discussed it, hence this thread. Still playing with half a deck of cards?

[-] -1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I have heard of the Japanese interment camps - it's old news. It may even answer precisely why you haven't actually ever seen a FEMA camp yourself.

There aren't any.

[-] 0 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

You are awesome with your help we are winning.

[-] 0 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-645 That's right H.R645 the bill Jessy Vantura brought on air before the government forced the episode removed.

SEC. 3. DESIGNATION OF MILITARY INSTALLATIONS AS NATIONAL EMERGENCY CENTERS.

(a) In General- Not later than 60 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of Defense, shall designate not fewer than 6 military installations as sites for the establishment of national emergency centers.

(b) Minimum Requirements- A site designated as a national emergency center shall be--

(1) capable of meeting for an extended period of time the housing, health, transportation, education, public works, humanitarian and other transition needs of a large number of individuals affected by an emergency or major disaster;

(2) environmentally safe and shall not pose a health risk to individuals who may use the center;

(3) capable of being scaled up or down to accommodate major disaster preparedness and response drills, operations, and procedures;

(4) capable of housing existing permanent structures necessary to meet training and first responders coordination requirements during nondisaster periods;

(5) capable of hosting the infrastructure necessary to rapidly adjust to temporary housing, medical, and humanitarian assistance needs;

(6) required to consist of a complete operations command center, including 2 state-of-the art command and control centers that will comprise a 24/7 operations watch center as follows:

(A) one of the command and control centers shall be in full ready mode; and

(B) the other shall be used daily for training; and

(7) easily accessible at all times and be able to facilitate handicapped and medical facilities, including during an emergency or major disaster.

(c) Location of National Emergency Centers- There shall be established not fewer than one national emergency center in each of the following areas:

(1) The area consisting of Federal Emergency Management Agency Regions I, II, and III.

(2) The area consisting of Federal Emergency Management Agency Region IV.

(3) The area consisting of Federal Emergency Management Agency Regions V and VII.

(4) The area consisting of Federal Emergency Management Agency Region VI.

(5) The area consisting of Federal Emergency Management Agency Regions VIII and X.

(6) The area consisting of Federal Emergency Management Agency Region IX.

(d) Preference for Designation of Closed Military Installations- Wherever possible, the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of Defense, shall designate a closed military installation as a site for a national emergency center. If the Secretaries of Homeland Security and Defense jointly determine that there is not a sufficient number of closed military installations that meet the requirements of subsections (b) and (c), the Secretaries shall jointly designate portions of existing military installations other than closed military installations as national emergency centers.

(e) Transfer of Control of Closed Military Installations- If a closed military installation is designated as a national emergency center, not later than 180 days after the date of designation, the Secretary of Defense shall transfer to the Secretary of Homeland Security administrative jurisdiction over such closed military installation.

(f) Cooperative Agreement for Joint Use of Existing Military Installations- If an existing military installation other than a closed military installation is designated as a national emergency center, not later than 180 days after the date of designation, the Secretary of Homeland Security and the Secretary of Defense shall enter into a cooperative agreement to provide for the establishment of the national emergency center.

(g) Reports-

(1) PRELIMINARY REPORT- Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security, acting jointly with the Secretary of Defense, shall submit to Congress a report that contains for each designated site--

(A) an outline of the reasons why the site was selected;

(B) an outline of the need to construct, repair, or update any existing infrastructure at the site;

(C) an outline of the need to conduct any necessary environmental clean-up at the site;

(D) an outline of preliminary plans for the transfer of control of the site from the Secretary of Defense to the Secretary of Homeland Security, if necessary under subsection (e); and

(E) an outline of preliminary plans for entering into a cooperative agreement for the establishment of a national emergency center at the site, if necessary under subsection (f).

(2) UPDATE REPORT- Not later than 120 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security, acting jointly with the Secretary of Defense, shall submit to Congress a report that contains for each designated site--

(A) an update on the information contained in the report as required by paragraph (1);

(B) an outline of the progress made toward the transfer of control of the site, if necessary under subsection (e);

(C) an outline of the progress made toward entering a cooperative agreement for the establishment of a national emergency center at the site, if necessary under subsection (f); and

(D) recommendations regarding any authorizations and appropriations that may be necessary to provide for the establishment of a national emergency center at the site.

(3) FINAL REPORT- Not later than 1 year after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security, acting jointly with the Secretary of Defense, shall submit to Congress a report that contains for each designated site--

(A) finalized information detailing the transfer of control of the site, if necessary under subsection (e);

(B) the finalized cooperative agreement for the establishment of a national emergency center at the site, if necessary under subsection (f); and

(C) any additional information pertinent to the establishment of a national emergency center at the site.

(4) ADDITIONAL REPORTS- The Secretary of Homeland Security, acting jointly with the Secretary of Defense, may submit to Congress additional reports as necessary to provide updates on steps being taken to meet the requirements of this Act.

It also further enables them in NDAA 2012

[-] -3 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

let me guess - this was passed under bush sometime after Katrina . . .

It is interesting.

And cautionary.

That said, the fact still remains - I haven't been rounded up and arrested yet.

[-] 1 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

When was NDAA 2012 passed? You ugly dishonest trolling fried out retard. Don't worry though you trolls are gifts from heaven.

[-] -1 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Bunch of trolling turds i prove what you ask and you collapse it. I also realize why you finally admit to REX84 it was a republican. Tell you what zen you want to destroy this country come talk to me in person first. You low life Obamatron.

[-] 0 points by GreedKilIs (29) 2 years ago

You nailed it, he and GirlFriday. You'd swear they must be appointed czars of fungal defecation.

Zen won't stretch out any further than this forum to learn anything, his dial up has him snowed in, forever.

[-] 0 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Look at my thread above i turned it around on him. I really don't think he knows how dumb he is.

[-] -1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

Tell you what zen you want to destroy this country come talk to me

I'd say the repelicans have done a fine job of that so far - so much so they don't need any help from you or me . . .

But here's my website if you really think I'm out to destroy the country - you'll find my pic on there, and I'm sure you know what to do.

[-] 0 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Allowing a complete destruction of habeas corpus will be the finishing move, that is what this bill does.

[-] -2 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

we have to look at the whole set of legislation that provides for indefinite detention, not just this bill.

We will get further if we blame Congress for writing it, than if we blame the President for signing it.

We will get further if we blame Levin / McCain than if we blame the whole Congress -

hold the people writing it responsible.

Why?

because of the deadline for funding. There was no time to rewrite it - without funding government stops.

That's the central piece of this whole thing everyone overlooks.

[-] 1 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Zendog, stop clicking and pasting the same thing over and over again. Everyone that signed it is responsible, just as everybody that signed the patriot act is. If you help hold a gun still for your friend to shoot your neighbor you are guilty. "because of the deadline for funding. There was no time to rewrite it - without funding government stops. " what a shame you mean the government can be reformed?

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Stick a fork in them, please......:)

[-] -1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I saw Cantor on 60 Minutes just last nite

  • dont' even tempt me to stick him with a fork
[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Cantor is a world class douche. But you can't praise Obama like he's a savior when in fact he's responsible for this mess all the same. Outside of his speeches and a couple domestic policy changes, it's been a a regular George W Obama 3 years. Indefinite war!

Obama works with Wall Street. Just look at the facts

Wall Street's takeover of the Obama administration is now complete. "The mega-banks and their corporate allies control every economic policy position of consequence. Mr. Obama has moved rapidly since the November debacle to install business people where it counts most. Mr.William Daley from JP Morgan Chase as White House Chief of Staff. Mr. Gene Sperling from the Goldman Sachs payroll to be director of the National Economic Council. Eileen Rominger from Goldman Sachs named director of the SEC's Investment Management division. Even the National Security Advisor, Thomas Donilon, was executive vice president for law and policy at the disgraced Fannie Mae after serving as a corporate lobbyist with O'Melveny & Roberts. The keystone of the business friendly team was put in place on Friday. General Electric Chairman and CEO Jeffrey Immelt will serve as chair of the president's Council on Jobs and Competitiveness."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-brenner/barack-obama-out-of-the-c_b_813027.html

Obama also supported the bailouts of a fraudulent financial system that is extracting wealth from our country and stealing people's pensions and homes. The bailout money was used by the federal reserve to create 7.7 trillion dollars out of thin air for their own private interest, and Obama has yet to do anything about it or even remotely care.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BXPINPwp4w

Obama's new campaign guy is a Wall Street lobbyist.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/25/obama-defies-base-hires-wall-street-lobbyist-for-re-election-campaign/#ixzz1cQ6oOt4U

Is this the US congress or the board of directors meeting of Goldman Sachs?!?!? - Dennis Kucinich (the man who should have been president in 2008)

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Cantor?

Ain't his brain a mess?

Sorry to have tempted you Zen.

The teabagger laggards, have got to go!!!!

[-] 0 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

that schmuck and his shit eating grin

[-] -1 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

two trolls lol sorry but a majority of OWS off this site and not in the minority general assembly's site support Ron PauI now. Suck on it

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 2 years ago

nope rocky anderson is the new political darling by ron lawl.

[-] -1 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Think what ever you like but those Paul bots as you guys claim are real people. You guys just call them bots it is called "cognitive dissidence". You want the truth, you can't handle the truth.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 2 years ago

the truth is if ows is voting for someone not named obama it will be him. not paul sorry objectivist loser.

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Of course they are real people.

They are also lost in a sea of libe(R)tarian propaganda.

So far, far away from "truth".

[-] -2 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I see your argument is evolving. You should just keep it simple. One thread per point. Otherwise some of us might get a bit lost . . .

From that I would conclude that

  1. you are not a professional troll - they usually arrive with their arguments in hand, and they are well thought out, counters are usually anticipated in advance, and they know how to lead the discussion in a specific direction. I'm not one, but I've seen some. They are irritating mutherfuckers . . .

  2. this suggests you are simply a genuine, grassroots Paulite, honing your argument. A true believer . . .

Ah well.

I don't know where to start. The repelican party is intent on turning this nation into a corporatocracy - I don't know how to prove that conclusively to someone convinced as they are that any repelican has the answer.

Repelicans scream deregulation

  • the movie Inside Job articulates well how financial deregulation has been a goal that the repelicans have pursued over some considerable length of time, installing activist judges even to the Supreme Court.

  • There is the Nigerian Delta - a nightmare of oil exploration and development in the absence of governmental regulation.

[-] 1 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Guess what zendog, the new york general assembly has taken notice they are having a call to action against NDAA 2012. V for victory.

[-] -1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I saw that - I'm all for it

That doesn't change the fact that if we want to roll back the legislation we have got to focus on all of the legislation, not just two small parts of this bill, that provide for indefinite detention.

It started under Bush - we have to look at the whole.

[-] 0 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

So make my messages show up again. This is not a conspiracy theory as is nothing i have claimed and yes there are many laws that we need to repeal.

[-] -3 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I don't have any control over that.

there is a little

  • [-]

or a

  • [+]

next to thread comments, and the plus sign [+] indicates threads you can expand.

As in:

[-] ZenDog (4028) 1 points 0 minutes ago

you can collapse this comment. What affects that may have on others I have no idea.

[-] 1 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Ok, ill just keep exposing you and your troll crew, it is better this way my little puppet.

[-] -1 points by PileOfSmegAKAZenDog (-30) 2 years ago

And you best believe I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING about when I say fool!

[-] -1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

what ever

fool

[-] 0 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

NYCGA took notice so victory for the 99% and failure for you. winning :-)

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Don't worry about it.

We are being investigated for something or other.

I think it's the troll club.

I was even accused of being thrassy, somebody or other.

Like you said.................whatever.

[-] -1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

it's the white space. I don't think he gets it - but he isn't alone there I guess.

I am who I am

Like it or not.

[+] -4 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

What was the point to all this copy and paste?

[-] 1 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Read it it proves ZENDOG claiming he is right without knowing all the FACTS.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Has it ever dawned on you, that none of us know ALL the facts?

It's why I haven't commented on the NDAA, beyond stating that it's an extension of the Patriot Act.

Because that IS a fact.

[-] 1 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

I am handing you facts to look at, i know the facts that i state.

[Removed]