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Forum Post: "America is Not the Greatest Country in the World", by Sarah Harvard.

Posted 2 years ago on Sept. 3, 2012, 3:56 p.m. EST by shadz66 (19985)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

"America is Not the Greatest Country in the World",

by Sarah Harvard.

I have been on this earth for 19 years, and not once had I ever felt that the United States was the greatest country in the world. All my life, I have never experienced a time of peace, prosperity, and freedom. I live in an era of recession, restricted freedoms, and war. To many, my sentiment towards the country I call home may seem unpatriotic. This is not true. I am an outspoken critic of the United States because I am a lover of my birth country. I care for it. I speak up when we do wrong. I speak up when we do wrong, because I want us to do better. I want us to succeed; indeed, I want us to become the greatest country in the world. I am patriotic. Before my time, we used to be the leaders, the revolutionaries, and the free; the land we call home used to be the path to opportunity, prosperity, and liberty — but we have lost the way.

They have taken away our literature, our ability to let our minds interpret freely and gave us propaganda, and force-fed our brains to accept policies that harm our interests. They have taken away our family members and sent them far off to a foreign land to fight a war based on twisted lies and hidden truths. They have taken away our right to property and prosperity, and they have tricked us to believe that capitalism is not only equated to corporatism, but that it’s the root of our economic recession. They have taken away our vested powers to make the decisions for our country and gave those powers to failed organizations made up of leaders of foreign nations. They have taken away our ability to love whoever we were destined to love and have distracted us from realizing that marriage is a fundamental liberty that can never be interfered with. They have prohibited us from the victimless use of marijuana and have imprisoned many peaceful, productive members of society. They have taken away our belief that we can make a change and have sadly proven that our vote no longer counts.

We live in a time where Congress spends their time deciding that pizza is a vegetable. We live in a time where we place embargos on countries that are no longer a threat to the world. We live in a time where a president that sends more drones, sends more troops, and kills more soldiers and civilians is rewarded a Nobel Peace Prize. We live in a time where assassinating American citizens as young as 16 without a trial are considered progress. We live in a time where being detained indefinitely without due process and having our phones wiretapped are considered a necessary procedure to our security. We live in a time where we bang our war drums for the sake of war. We live in a time where we spend billions of dollars abroad in foreign aid to build schools, homes, and democracy. We, too, have poor education, foreclosed homes, and restricted freedoms. We live in a time, when the United States ranks 31 in math, 23 in science, and 17 in reading, out of 74 countries by the Organization of Economic Co-operation and Development. This proves that my generation is among one of the worst generations in educational history. We live in a time where we lead the world in the number of incarceration rates, military expenditures, and rank 49th in life expectancy by the CIA Factbook. We live in a time where we mistake loving your country with thinking it’s the greatest in the world.

In America, we vote based on who we relate to more or whose presence we enjoy rather than who will be in the best interest of the American people. In America, we vote more on American Idol than in elections. In America, we demonize and attack fellow Americans because of their religion or race, because of a miniscule fraction of religious fanatics that have constructed terror in this nation — they too face terrorism in this nation. In America, we come together when death has been brought to our enemies, not when we commemorate our servicemen or when we excel in all of human history. In America, being an advocate for liberty is equated to being insane and out of touch with reality. In America, we believe we’re so powerful, yet we always feel so threatened.

Every time we defend America for a crime against humanity is a time where we put ourselves in more danger. Every time we victimize ourselves for the result of our past wrongdoing, we fuel ourselves to kill and commit more wrongs.

We used to not be like this. We used to be the best artists, the best poets, and the best thinkers. We used to care for what our representatives our leaders have said or done. We used to have representatives that actually read bills and argued for days on the wording of these governing documents. We used to wage war on tyranny, not people or individual rights. We used to love talking about liberty, not the American Idol winner or The Bachelorette. We used to be the country of opportunity and of prosperity — we used to be the country that respects and never infringes on anyone’s rights. We used to be the country that believes we can always do better, indeed, we shall still be.

This is what makes us who we are and what we should be individually. A vision of radiant days ahead, belief in things unseen, and faith that here, in this nation, we are the writers of our own future, our own destiny. The belief that we hold the power to dictate and succeed in our own life; the belief that we don’t need government to tell us who we can marry, what we can drink, or what we can do. This is what America is all about. And now it falls to us, our generation of youth, our freedom fighters, our liberty lovers, to write the next great novel of not only America’s history, but also the world’s history; to meet our tests, our challenges, our opportunities, our dreams, and our right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It is our time to rise again; it is our time to secure our future.

I long for day where we stand together strong and enlightened. Our call to liberty is not only a ticket to a journey, nor is it a ticket to a better life; it is a ticket to change the world. It is our calling. We do not need magic, nor do we need authority. We contain the power in our hands from what we have touched, our ears from what have listened, our mouths from what we have spoke, and our hearts from what we have felt.

What lies in the world for us is limitless. I consider this planet, this world, as a canvas and our words as the stroke of a paintbrush. And our words have the power to either make the painting vibrant in colors. And our words have the power to put everything beautiful in this world in that painting. Our words will make a painting that will resonate our message — the message of inspiration, hope, compassion, and freedom. And that painting will be the self-portrait of the invincible greatness of the place I call home.

~

dum spiro, spero ...

~

[Article copied verbatim under "Fair Use" from : http://studentsforliberty.org/blog/america-is-not-the-greatest-country-in-the-world/]

233 Comments

233 Comments


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[-] 5 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

Whenever I hear people say "America is the greatest country in the world" I imagine people in other countries saying it and it always sounds dumb no matter who is saying it.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Inescapably True, "sb' & as Samuel Johnson is reported (by Boswell) to have said in 1775 :

  • "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" !!

In a wee defence of the essay author (Sarah Harvard), I would add that she is probably born, raised and schooled in The USA, where 'nationalistic programming and propaganda', starts early and is ubiquitous.

pax ...

[-] 4 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I disagree, strongly disagree--not with the notion that we've descended into the depths of has-been empires, but with the whole fauly concept of America's past goodness.

Read the history books: Manifest Destiny, the wholesale destruction of Native Americans, the Robber Barons, Teddy Roosevelt and "Remember the Maine!", the Cuban Embargo, the Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, the Domino Theory, ad infinitum are parts of the American institution part and parcel. And should anyone ascribe peculiarly nefarious schemes to modern presidents, Abraham Lincoln suspended the right to writs of habeas corpus, declared martial law, tried people by military tribunals denying them Constitutional due process, etc, etc, etc. Let's not get too carried away about the good old days.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22162) 2 years ago

All true but isn't it a great thing when you have a younger person who isn't apathetic? That's what impressed me. I would never expect a callow 19 year old to have a grasp of history with any real depth.

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

It was the author, Sarah Harvard's hope and optimism that shone through, I think - as her youth, naivete and even ignorance are secondary and even forgiveable in the light of her youth and deep yearning for a better tomorrow. "Hope Springs Eternal" they say and indeed where'd we all be without 'hope' ?

dum spiro, spero ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22162) 2 years ago

Exactly. That is what I took away from it too.

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

:-)

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I appreciate your contribution 'TM' & what else can I say in the author's defence, other than she is 19 ? Nevertheless, your singular and salutary comment was still an appropriate addendum. Thanx again.

ad iudicium ...

[-] 3 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

The young woman makes some excellent points, but to romanticise the past, only makes changing the present more difficult.

Our modern duopoly, the corruption, the unresponsiveness of the state to its citizens are not mere symptoms of today's zeitgeist, but a fixture of the American system, even written about by Friedrich Engels well over 100 years ago.

In his "Introduction to The Civil War in France", dated 1891, he wrote: "It is well known that the Americans have been striving for 30 years to shake off this yoke ... and that in spite of all they can do they continue to sink ever deeper in this swamp of corruption. It is precisely in America that we see best how there takes place this process of the state power making itself independent in relation to society, whose mere instrument it was originally intended to be. Here there exists no dynasty, no nobility, no standing army, beyond the few men keeping watch on the Indians, no bureaucracy with permanent posts or the right to pensions. and nevertheless we find here two great gangs of political speculators, who alternately take possession of the state power and exploit it by the most corrupt means and for the most corrupt ends -- and the nation is powerless against these two great cartels of politicians, who are ostensibly its servants, but in reality exploit and plunder it."

No, to change the present, we have to recognize the past in all its glory or ignominy. The Judds, a country-western duo, sang a big hit a few years back: Grandpa (Tell Me 'bout The Good Ol' Days) .

The first stanza: "Grandpa Tell me 'bout the good old days. Sometimes it feels like This world's gone crazy. Grandpa, take me back to yesterday, Where the line between right and wrong Didn't seem so hazy..."

Those words bring to mind Sarah Harvard's essay.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Grandpa" - The Judds (With Lyrics) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLiRGW31nyk ;-)

Again 'TitusM', I'm getting your point loud and clear but I would counsel a moment's reflection on forum-poster bw's comment above. Sarah Harvard's cris de coeur speaks less of her head but more of her heart and she is exactly the kind of ethically engaged and inquiring young person that America needs yesterday, today and tomorrow.

respice ; adspice ; prospice ....

[-] 4 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

You, Sarah, and bw all make valid and good points. Sarah Harvard has a good vision of America as it should be, and with that I will never argue.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Nice song.

[-] -2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

You have a problem with Abraham Lincoln? Wow! You ARE just unreasonable. No wonder you are anti Obama. You just can't let go of that bone.

He was the greatest President we've had. Are you a confederate sympathizer? Just curious.

[-] 3 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I'm sorry that your education failed you, especially when it comes to literacy. I listed specific acts by Abraham Lincoln that I considered not only unconstitutional, but criminal. I suggest you read, oops sorry about that, watch a video on Lincoln's wartime acts. Did you think that John Wilkes Booth cried, "Sic semper tyrannis!" only as a dramatic gesture?

I believe it's a little after the fact to be a "Confederate sympathizer," don't you?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Questioning my level of intelligence is just childish bullying. I've read many books on Lincoln. I'm well aware of the issues you focused on with your tunnel vision. It does not take away Pres Lincolns greatness. I mean it was basically confederate/slavery sympathizers that he targeted anyway. The union survived. In fact he saved the union. He was not a tyrant. Your "defense" of JWB ridiculous comments when he assassinated the great Pres Lincoln notwithstanding.

And no it ain't to late to sympathize with The Confederate States of America. Why 'cause we destroyed them?. Please I've dealt with at least 2 on this forum alone. And I guess you as well.?

Heres some READING that might illuminate you to the kinda people who sympathize with JWB like you.

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?s=confederate&submit=

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I never questioned your intelligence, only your literacy, and your response proves my contention.

Of course you only further support my initial response to you, when you say I defend John Wilkes Booth. I only quoted his famous line after shooting President Lincoln.

I am surprised to find you adore Lincoln almost as much as Obama. Lincoln was a Republican. What do you call them again?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Party affiliation is irrelevant. there is right and wrong. Lincoln was on the liberal and correct side of the slavery issue.

Nowa days the Dems (those who do not cave in to vote for conservative policies) stand with the 99%. At least in words.

Now it is up to the people to take back the govt and make it serve the 99%.

Tunnel vision on Lincolns mistakes that allows you to think of him as a tyrant or anything other than the greatest president we've had is a good illustration of the problem you have dealing with our current progress.

Open your eyes. take the blinders off. Life is complicated. Progress must be measured with more sophistication.

Peace, Good luck in all your good efforts.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I have no problem dealing with "our current progress," but my definition differs from yours, which extended backwards might envision Lucy as the ultimate step in human evolution.

To get back to Lincoln, I purposely used his questionable acts as an example, because they were almost exactly the same acts the last two American Presidents enacted and supported, which were just as unconstitutional and reprehensible as they were in the day of Lincoln. They are the acts of tyrants, which explains John Wilkes Booth's famous line.

"Progess must be measured with more sophistication" reminds me of a politician's speech telling constituents that hunger must be viewed and measured by historical and global standards. That doesn't quite hit the mark.

[-] 3 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

Few people seem to know that the real basis for the civil war had more to do with a battle over tariffs than anything. Emancipation wasn't even on the agenda. It was about "the Nulifiers". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullifier_Party

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Thanks for the link. Interesting. Many people don't realize that the Emancipation Proclamation freed only the slaves in rebellious states, not in states supporting the Union. Much has been made about the slave issue, but the Civil War, as you pointed out, was more about state's rights over federal rights. That battle goes on today, but since the feds hold the purse strings of so many major projects, they most often have their way.

[-] 3 points by flip (7101) 2 years ago

if i knew that i forgot it - thanks for pointing it out - did you know this -At one time in the U.S. in the mid-nineteenth century, a hundred and fifty years ago, working for wage labor was considered not very different from chattel slavery,” Chomsky told David Barsamian. “That was not an unusual position. That was the slogan of the Republican Party, the banner under which Northern workers went to fight in the Civil War. We’re against chattel slavery and wage slavery. Free people do not rent themselves to others. Maybe you’re forced to do it temporarily, but that’s only on the way to becoming a free person, a free man, to put it in the rhetoric of the day. You become a free man when you’re not compelled to take orders from others. That’s an Enlightenment ideal. Incidentally, this was not coming from European radicalism. There were workers in Lowell, Mass., a couple of miles from where we are. You could even read editorials in the New York Times saying this around that time. It took a long time to drive into people’s heads the idea that it is legitimate to rent yourself. Now that’s unfortunately pretty much accepted. So that’s internalizing oppression. Anyone who thinks it’s legitimate to be a wage laborer is internalizing oppression in a way which would have seemed intolerable to people in the mills, let’s say, a hundred and fifty years ago. … [I]t’s an [unfortunate] achievement [of indoctrination in our culture].”

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I assume the Republicans, Lincoln's party, used that slogan as an effective means of attracting cannon fodder. Young men of the time resisted the draft, even rioted in New York City from July 13-16, 1863. http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/317749.html

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

You are correct.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

"that battle goes on today"? Yeah there still are a lot of racist republicans who continue to sue states rights as they tried to during the civil war, and the civilright struggle. But we know better. We decimated their sorry asses in 1860's and stopped their jom crow segregaton in the 1960's. We will meet all new efforts to use states rights to oppress people as we continue the "battle today"

The civil war was about slavery, not states rights, Are you a racist, Confederacy sympathizer.?

[-] -1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 2 years ago

bullshit. Are you some kind of CSA apologist? Trying to rewrite history to remove the inhuman racists slaveholding pigs that attacked the United States to protect their lazy sedentary life living off the labor of African slaves.?

What kind of racist piece of shit would believe that nonsense?

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Thank you.....as far as they are concerned slavery was the right for every pale skin from European descent, and still is....in their eyes!!!
Now with that said, most forget that many of them who state they are of that pale skin racial divide .are not due to the amalgamation of the races and will die before they admit it.. so it is still about race on these shores.....and with OWS........regardless.

What was planned was to rewrite history completely, obliterate all those who originated on these shores and ensure that everyone believed that this was a continent whose only existed civilization began with the arrival of the newcomers. NOT!

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 2 years ago

Whew! finally some sanity!

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

Oh I don't deny they where slave holding pigs. Guess you didn't read the link. The person who would believe it is the person who studied a little history. Not just the popular narrative. Try it sometime.

[-] -1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 2 years ago

Oh and you don't deny they were slave holders" you only deny the truth that is why they started the war!

[-] -1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 2 years ago

I've read lots of history and I know the slaveholdng 1% created that war to hold on to their cheap labor. Convinced most southern 99%'rs to fight even though they didn't hold slaves.

Tariffs? Bullshit! Just a bunch of lazy racists, trying to extend their medievil culture instead of moving into the industrial age like the north.

[-] 2 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

Well, if you can read, read the link. The historical fact of the Nulifiers is just that, Historical fact. It's not something I invented.

[-] -1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 2 years ago

I already read, and responded to your ineffective effort to distract from your apologist, defense of Southern racist slavery.

If the hood fits.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Please. Lucy? Hunger? Tyrant? You don't know what you're talkin about.

Keep spewing your tunnel vision fueled anti dem partisan political campaigning rhetoric.

I will do my best to educate you.

Peace. Good luck in all your good work.

[-] 0 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

You definitely reinforce my view of Democrats, including the leaders. Jill Stein looks better all the time.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

You'll never vote for Jill Stein, You seem more like a Romney boy. Definitely anti dem partisan!

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Please take your childish nonsense somewhere else.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Still trying to get rid of me? I will not be turned. Too much is at stake for the 99%. Your kind of disruptive anti 99% rhetoric must be challenged.

You are clearly not an OWS supporter. You seem more like a paid troll who comes here to insult, and disrupt. You never have anything positive to say. You support more republican positions than progressive.

No i'm not going anywhere. I've never been banned because I am doing good work here challenging your hateful efforts.

Stay, I will meet you in battle with pleasure. I have the truth so I am confident and sure.

You have only offensive schoolyard bullying tactics of yourcandidate Romney.

Please refrain from the insulting obscenities. I think it is against the forum rules.

[-] 0 points by Evergreen38 (14) 2 years ago

If "insulting obscenities" were against the rules, you would have been gone a long time ago VQkag2

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I am not trying to hurt this movement! Suggesting that is offensive. It may be your opinion but it is not true. My politics comes out in RESPONSE to unfair, untrue anti dem partisan attacks.

I believe all speech is protected. and if anti dem speech is allowed then I'm sure challenging it is also allowed.

Solidarity, Good luck in all you good efforts. "fight the powers that be" PE

[-] 1 points by Evergreen38 (14) 2 years ago

"...anti dem partisan..." is a clever, disingenuous, and very amusing counter-attack, which I find offensive

Anyway, you should have no problem when I say that both parties 'stink,' and to think that things will get immeasurably better by voting democtatic is LUDICROUS.

There....the first installment of OUR new beginning VQkag

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I protested with the rent strikers in sunset park weeks ago. Riverside is an old stomping ground of mine. No protesting, just life!

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Well, so, clearly to state that "voting dem is ludicrous" is anti dem partisan political campaigning.

The idea is to vote because there are elections and we cannot pretend there isn't. We must vote to keep the worst pols out. We must vote our conscience, We must vote the issues. But if we think voting alone will change anything THAT is ludicrous!

We must replace pro 1% conservatives with pro 99% progressives and protest. pressure, and agitate for the change that will benefit the 99%.

Voting is ludicrous without the protests.

"It's the only way to be sure"

[-] -1 points by Evergreen38 (14) 2 years ago

That quote was taken out of context, number 1.

You, who are usually one of the first to comment on news threads did not do so (the last i checked) on the recent one that trashed Obama. Hmmm?

I am sure with your many 'professional-like talents' that you will be able to twist it so that you feel that you have a license to carry on with your 4 1/2 month intensive partisan campaign under the OWS banner.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Listen. I can start over. But I WILL NOT be told what opinions I can espouse.

I will continue to refrain from insulting obscene disrespectful discourse. I prefer everyone I interact with do as well. But of course it is not against the rules so it is up to each of us to be guided by our own principles.

I do not agree with your accusations of me. Of course I can say that I will make an extra effort not to "red bait" or misrepresent anyone.

Of course I get much of that towards me so I'll be watching as always, and if there is anti dem partisan political campaigning I suppose I can challenge that. Right?

[-] 0 points by Evergreen38 (14) 2 years ago

What you label as "anti dem partisan political campaigning", and what I regard as amusing, is not that at all, and you know it. If you were campaigning for the repubs on here, do you not think that you would be 'blasted' even more. Having you proselytizing for the dems in your effort to change the course of this rev on this site will cause more problems in the future between us. I will do my best to remain civil with you though.

On a side note, I took a party bus...strobe light, the works.... down to DC to see Obama get inaugurated. The bus originated in Brooklyn. It was all of an hour and a half late in picking up me, and a handful of others in mid-town on that cold night. I learned to appreciate hip-hop on the trip down. And I guess in figuring I was an alright dude for being white, they suddenly played nothing but country for the last half hour. lol

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I wasn't at riverside church but I did pass by the WSP OTS meeting this past Sat.

[-] 0 points by Evergreen38 (14) 2 years ago

You missed a beautiful night at Riverside, and a great day in Sunset Park

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

NO! Do you think I am your slave? Why? because you are north european, and look at anyone a few shades darker as inferior?

Why can't you do your own search? Why don't YOU provide some evidence for your continual baseless and base accusations?

I used an obscenity in a pm? Please that doesn't sound like me. I think you're making it up!

Got anything else?

[-] 1 points by Evergreen38 (14) 2 years ago

Gee... VQkag you're playing the race card now, "....because you are northern Euopean, and look at anyone a few shades darker as inferior."

You will have to think of another one of your shameful, diingenuous red baiting-like tactics, as i have family members whom I love dearly, that are "a few shades darker" than me.

BTW VQkag were you at Riverside Church this past MLK day with Occupy Wall Street? I was, and have written about it on here several times

You will have to come up with something else out of your moveon.org-like bag of tricks

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I make an extra effort to refrain from insulting obscenities. I continually ask the same of everyone I interact with because I prefer respectful, civil discourse. you don't?

And how would you know about my use of insulting obscenities? Who are you?

[-] 1 points by Evergreen38 (14) 2 years ago

I'm the guy who received a two word "insulting obscenity" from you in a PM. I have also been one of the many victims of your red baiting-like attacks.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Why do you NEVER bump up the non partisan posts.?

I did not comment on the anti obama one you refer to because it was already bumped up by many of your anti dem partisan political campaigner friends.

Did you complain that they (& you?) only bump the anti Obama post?

How come you guys never bump up the non partisan posts?

Is it because you are all partisan anti dems and only interested in anti dem posts for your political campaign against dems and to serve republicans.?

Hmmmm? Is that it.? That would explain it? No other explanation I could see.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I answered you. Surely you can answer with something better than phooey!

I did not comment on the anti obama one you refer to because it was already bumped up by many of your anti dem partisan political campaigner friends.

Did you complain that they (& you?) only bump the anti Obama post?

How come you guys never bump up the non partisan posts?

Is it because you are all partisan anti dems and only interested in anti dem posts for your political campaign against dems and to serve republicans.?

Hmmmm? Is that it.? That would explain it? No other explaination I could see.

[-] -1 points by Evergreen38 (14) 2 years ago

Yes you are right, you deserve a better answer.......phooey....phooey!

[-] 0 points by poof (-18) 2 years ago

You should not engage VQkag2. He's a troll from moveon.org. Just let him die in silence. Keep posting worthwhile material about your experience with OTS.

It's funny. VQkag2 usually comments the most in Occupy news articles, but since the last one takes a clear anti-Obama stance he has kept very silent.

[-] 1 points by Evergreen38 (14) 2 years ago

Yes I noticed that he did not comment on that last news item which took a clear anti-Obama stance. I will try to follow your good advice, and post good material about OTS, and my other experiences in OWS, but it is difficult for me to see him ride rough-shod over this forum, unchallenged.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

You're accusations are unfounded, baseless and without merit. You offer no evidence. I work for no one but the 99%. I believe Pres Obama is a better choice (of the 2 viable choices we have)

I believe voting is necessary to keep the worst pols out of power. I believe voting alone cannot achieve the change we need.

I believe that protesting will make the difference.

So Replace pro 1% conservatives with pro 99% progressives, & protest, pressure, agitate all pols for the change we need.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Then why are you asking ME to do your work?

And why don't you provide evidence of you continual baseless accusations?

[-] 1 points by Evergreen38 (14) 2 years ago

I kinda noticed that a lot of your past miscues are missing, and would expect the same if i looked for that. Anyway, let's start anew VQkag...no more proselytizing for the dems, and no more nastiness towards me or others....no more purposely misrepresenting people...and the most difficult ones for you, no more red baiting, or cursing at me. Deal??

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Are you the all powerful father? The grand high inquisitor? testing the purity of all who dare speak their mind, & challenge your opinion?

ODIN!

Or should that be Loki?

[-] 2 points by Evergreen38 (14) 2 years ago

No I am just Evergreen38 now looking for hypocrisy, and finding it quite readily in your comment, "I make an extra effort to refrain from insulting obscenities." BTW, could you search the archives for me, and see where I have ever used profanity on anyone?

[-] -2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I commented on many official posts (as I always do) including those protesting in Chi & Charlotte against Dems in order to bump them up to be seen!. I did not comment on the anti obama one you refer to because it was already bumped up by many of your anti dem partisan political campaigner friends.

Did you complain that they (& you?) only bump the anti Obama post?

How come you guys never bump up the non partisan posts?

Is it because you are all partisan anti dems and only interested in anti dem posts for your political campaign against dems and to serve republicans.?

Hmmmm? Is that it.? That would explain it? No other explaination I could see.

[-] 0 points by Evergreen38 (14) 2 years ago

this is all phooey

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

The forum mascot.

When are you going to jump through the hoop of fire? hahahahaha.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I ain't confused. And I ain't trying to stir things up. I just recognize you as an anti dem partisan. You never fail to attack dems, rarely, and only weakly criticize repubs, and always resort to personal attacks on anyone who challenges you.

[-] -1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 2 years ago

I would pay to see it lol

[-] -2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

IT would be by far the most talented and unbiased thing we have seen from the mascot in quite some time.

Of course, you know the trampoline will break or something and the Kagster mascot will just go crashing into the fire haha. Then probably go running through stands looking for "anti Dem partisans"...only to realize that term doesnt make any fuckin sense much less actually exist. lol.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Yeah she most certainly did! Not like your weak ass Ann Romney! HA!

[-] 5 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Looks like you are confusing anti establishment with pro dem or con. I honestly think you do this shit on purpose just to stir up shit here.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Anti dem partisan campaigner.! "I gotcha hoop right 'ere!"

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Im anti establishment. You are pro Dem. There is a HUGE difference on what our desired worlds would look like.

Yours is "right out in the parking lot".

On a lighter note, Michelle Obama just rocked the fuckin stage. Damn!

[-] 0 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

You seem like a Michele Bachman supporter to me.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Are you a racist?

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

Are you illiterate?

[-] 2 points by flip (7101) 2 years ago

nullification - very nice history - that seemed to shut the idiot up

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

Thanks for appreciating the history, but nothing seem to shut the idiot up. He seems to think that pointing this out makes me a racist. As you said-idiot.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

It speaks for itself but it neglects to mention slavery while slavery was the main reason for conflict between the north and south for decades before the election of 1860.!

cross burn much?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I am well aware of all that. Just a distraction, and a test run the South attempted to test the fed govt. The players involved, were raging racists.

In the end you did NOT answer the question! You only offered some historical roots of the states rights logic, you left out any mention of slavery even though it was lurking under the tables during the constitutional convention and beyond.

The election of 1860 was about slavery! The Southern states seceded and attacked The US because they were afraid they would lose they're right to enslave people. NOT because there were standing against tariffs or for states rights!

THAT is illiterate, and it conforms to the current racists attempt to whitewash the racists pro slavery roots of the CSA.

So are you a racist? Do you believe the Civil war was about slavery? Or do you conform to the racist CSA apologists who believe they can convince people people it was some states right issue?

[-] 0 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

No, you weren't aware of it. It speaks for itself. No I'm not a racist. The war began in 1861. The emancipation proclamation occurred in 1863.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Nope. Why are you avoiding the question? Do you think the Civil war was about slavery or "states rights" like the CSA sympathizing are trying to "white" wash the historic truth?

"Don't wait for the translation, just answer!"

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

Share

Nullification Crisis

Nullification is the formal suspension by a state of a federal law within its borders. The concept was first given voice by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, in opposition to the Alien and Sedition Acts. The principle was accepted by the Hartford Convention of New Englanders in 1814 as well as many in the South, who saw it as protection against federal encroachment on their rights. It remained a point of contention and reached a crisis in 1832.

The Tariff of 1832, despite pleas from Southern representatives, failed to moderate the protective barriers erected in earlier legislation. The South Carolina passed an ordinance of nullification on November 24, 1832, and threatened to secede if the federal government attempted to collect those tariff duties. The ordinance stated: And we, the people of South Carolina, to the end that it may be fully understood by the Government of the United States, and the people of the co-States, that we are determined to maintain this, our Ordinance and Declaration, at every hazard, Do further Declare that we will not submit to the application of force, on the part of the Federal Government, to reduce this State to obedience; but that we will consider the passage by Congress, of any act... to coerce the State, shut up her ports, destroy or harass her commerce, or to enforce the acts hereby declared null and void, otherwise than through the civil tribunals of the country, as inconsistent with the longer continuance of South Carolina in the Union: and that the people of this state will thenceforth hold themselves absolved from all further obligation to maintain or preserve their political connection with the people of the other States, and will forthwith proceed to organize a separate Government, and do all other acts and things which sovereign and independent States may of right do....

Robert Hayne (of Webster-Hayne Debate fame) had resigned from the Senate to run for governor of South Carolina; John C. Calhoun resigned the vice presidency and took Hayne’s seat in the Senate. These two men spearheaded the nullification drive. A real possibility of secession and war existed.

Jackson immediately offered his thought that nullification was tantamount to treason and quickly dispatched ships to Charleston harbor and began strengthening federal fortifications there. Congress supported the president and passed a Force Bill in early 1833 which authorized Jackson to use soldiers to enforce the tariff measures.

Meanwhile Henry Clay again took up his role as the Great Compromiser. On the same day the Force Bill passed, he secured passage of the Tariff of 1833. This latter measure provided for the gradual reduction of the tariff over 10 years down to the level which had existed in 1816. This compromise was acceptable to Calhoun who had not been successful with finding any other state to support him on nullification. Jackson signed both measures.

South Carolina repealed its nullification measure, but then spitefully nullified the Force Bill. Jackson wisely ignored that action. Although the issue died down, the idea did not entirely go away and gradually morphed into the principle of nullification of the union itself, leading eventually to the secession of Southern states and the formation of the Confederacy. http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h333.html

[-] 3 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

good read

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"The Vanishing Appeal of Capitalism", by James Rothenberg : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32386.htm ,

Thanx Trev & I think the above linked article is even more so ;-)

fiat lux ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22162) 2 years ago

Out of the mouths of babes oft times come gems.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Right ! It's ALL about the kids !! They are our footprints in time and are part of "life's longing for itself" !!!

~

"Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

"You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you. For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

"You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth. The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far. Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness; For even as He loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable."

~

(by Khalil Gibran)

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22162) 2 years ago

That is so very beautiful.There are a lot of awesome kids out there. I know some of them, and more power to 'em in their endeavors to make this a better world.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Seems like a rather appropriate moment for : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoL2WMtMb_0 ~i~

pax ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22162) 2 years ago

Nice tune selection. Thanks.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Babes? You think she could be pretty outside as well as inside BW? Or did you cheat and somehow see a picture of this intelligent young woman?

[-] 2 points by marvelpym (-184) 2 years ago

She is pretty cute. And, evidently, a Ron Paul - Libertarian fan.

http://www.sarahharvard.com/#!about/c10fk

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22162) 2 years ago

So, what does the outside matter, anyhow? She's obviously beautiful where it counts.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I was just wondering about the Babes comment - as far as that goes you are a Babe then as well. Demonstrated to be for many a long month now. As inner beauty is what is important - you are gorgeous.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22162) 2 years ago

Shucks, thanks, DKA. That's a famous quote by the way.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I'm Famous???? just kidding - wanted to C if eye could get U 2 chuckle.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22162) 2 years ago

Oh yes, that is rarely a problem.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Chuckling? Good.

[-] 2 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

well said, I agree whole heartedly.

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Sen. Bernie Sanders : Overturn Citizens United",

"Sen. Bernie Sanders revealed for the first time that at least 23 billionaire families have contributed a minimum of $250,000 each so far in this year's campaigns. "My guess is that number is really much greater because many of these contributions are made in secret. In other words, not content to own our economy, the 1 percent want to own our government as well," he said his appearance before the Senate Judiciary Committee's Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights and Human Rights."

'Citizens United' is another very real reason for America's slippery slide towards Fascism !!

caveat ...

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

“Despair Is Not an Option", by Senator Bernie Sanders :

Good for you 'ZD' - gorra love a Pro-99% guy like Sanders - all day and every day & thanx for your wee comment which enabled and encouraged me to post this nice piece to dovetail with the posted article :-)

pax, amor et lux ...

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Thanx. Especially for : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTQ1WOC9RgY :-)

pax ...

[-] 2 points by RoughKarma (122) 2 years ago

You yearn for an idealized version of an America that has never existed. A careful reading of our history will show that very few of us have ever grown up in a time free of military conflict, class struggle, popular dissatisfaction with the government due to graft, corruption, and/or stupidity. It is the human condition. We can only hope to counter-balance the bad with the good. Along with designating pizza a vegetable, we can strive for protection for the less fortunate, equal justice before the law, and to uphold the essential and inviolable dignity of humanity. We do these things, too. But today isn't much different than 10 years ago or 100 years ago. It's that you're 19 and just becoming aware of it all that makes it seem so.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Pizza is not "NOT" a vegitable.

It is one of the worlds only COMPLETE FOODS. {:-])

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

tomatoes are fruits

a bag of nutrients grown around a seed like a placenta to feed to young

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Ah - but lest we forget other contributers - the noble mushroom - green pepper - onion yes even spinach.

So there is dairy - there is grain there is fruit there is veggy there is meat.

5 of the food groups - if - you have a healthy pizza.

Nothing artificial please.

Thank you.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

mushroom are fungi

[-] 2 points by RoughKarma (122) 2 years ago

What a coincidence! I'm a fun guy, too!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Well then - an additional food group? Even more perfect - usually some sort of garlic is included - garlic is heart smart.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Yes, pizza, the complete food, especially the meaty, juicy type--New York style of course, though I'll pass on anything Bloomberg.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I am sure that there are many that would like Bloomberg to pass on.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Or pass Bloomberg as in passing wind.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I think passing Bloomberg would be more like passing a kidney stone.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

OH eew that's disgusting . . . ever read Stephen Kings - Dream Catcher?

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Yes, quite a few years ago, Now that was gross.

Thank goodness, I've never suffered from a kidney stone. I imagine that can be quite agonizing.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Not as agonizing as the dream catcher Bloomberg - that you would be trying to pass - Hey?

Now that is funny why would you get a down vote for that comment? Someone don't like you Dissing the Bloominbreg?

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Some posters become quite hostile. I've antagonized more than a few; guess it's my winning ways.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

spose that is possible - how to make friends and influence people - Hey?

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Some people take political discussions personally.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I think everyone should - then perhaps they would get involved and stay involved.

[-] 3 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

That could be. I just don't confuse political ideology with self-worth or even human worth. A right-wing, religious conservative may be a very decent, well-behaved person with whom I differ on political matters.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I know of one old sailor(?) who could use ( to remember? ) that advice. {:-])


[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2297) from Boulder City, NV 0 minutes ago

I guess it proves the old sailor's saying, "Never piss into the wind." Oops. "Never spit into the wind." ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

aAHhahahahahahaahahohohohoohehehe...... Never heard that one before . . . HeeeHeHehehehehe....good one.


[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2294) from Boulder City, NV 2 minutes ago

Actually, the version I like best is, "I see," said the blind man pissing in the wind. It's all coming back to me now!" ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I guess it proves the old sailor's saying, "Never piss into the wind." Oops. "Never spit into the wind."

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

{:-]) I like that one :

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2294) from Boulder City, NV 0 minutes ago

"I see," said the blind man. Of course you're right; every American should become personally involved in politics in the sense of becoming aware of what is happening and to where those events and people may be leading. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

But ya gotta finish it:

I see said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw.

Least ways - that is how I remember it.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Actually, the version I like best is, "I see," said the blind man pissing in the wind. It's all coming back to me now!"

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

No I was not trying to get at differing ideologies - I was going for people taking interest - personal interest - in Issues. That is what and how I wish people took a personal interest in politics.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

"I see," said the blind man. Of course you're right; every American should become personally involved in politics in the sense of becoming aware of what is happening and to where those events and people may be leading.

[-] 2 points by engineer4 (352) 2 years ago

I take issue with someone with about 3 years of ability for critical thinking to make some of the assessments made in the post. While there are some very good points, there are also many bad ones. While it is very well written, it displays a fundamental lack of experience and wrong assumptions.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Indeed. Such are the pitfalls of being 19 & of daring to put her head above the parapet and express a heartfelt opinion. Ho hum. At least she showed some :

I request you to please reflect on the words of this short 2 minute song. Thanx.

multum in parvo ...

[-] 2 points by engineer4 (352) 2 years ago

For some reason the movie would not load...might be my iPad. Will try on my lap top later. I take no issue in her "raising her head above....". We all should do that once in a while. She writes very well, but maybe a bit too "flowerly", maybe due to her young style. But I believe she missed an opportunity to challenge the same group she criticizes. Instead of declaring this the worst generation, why not give challenge to be the best generation? The Potential is there with every generation. She hinted a little, but could have delivered a powerfull challenge.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Spirit" (4min. Full Version) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7plNRs5kwgE to replace previous link & here's hoping that Sarah Harvard & her contemporaries continue to seek to find and use their voices.

qui tacet consentire ...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Your link has been blocked on youtube.

[-] 1 points by justcause (44) 2 years ago

I don't think I ever considered them the greatest nation in the world. usually I saw them as greedy douche bags that get in the business of other nations that isn't their own.

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

It is sad that individuals feel this way. If one studies history....depending on how deep you look, you will find the demise of other countries as compared to this one by the "conquerors" on each and every shoreline. What people fail to realize is that most countries have totally subjugated their people. particularly those who originally inhabited those dominated continents. On these shore, it took place, but now the subjugation crossed, not only the color line, but the religious lines, cultural lines, nationality lines, (depending on what flag you are up under) and people continue to subjugate their own with this medieval ignorance as well, here and elsewhere. The rich get richer, while the poor suffer and die.. So, America is still the greatest nation on the face of the earth, due to the fact that people here really don't have to die in order to WAKE THE F*** UP!! The demise of people on this continent is due to their own ignorance of the real and true history of this continent along with their willingness to put their whole being, lives, mentality and future in the hands and control of others (the ruling class). Now, the ruling class is showing their true colors by turning against everyone! So, what are you all gonna do about it???
Stand up or lie down and continue to whimper like little puppies?

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Probably "whimper like puppies" ! Americans are Lions led by Donkeys ; being farmed like Sheep by a bunch of Wolves and being reared as Turkeys in preparation for Thanksgiving !! Or not - time will tell !!!

Re. "America is still the greatest nation on the face of the earth" - see the Johnson quote above.

spero meliora ...

[-] 3 points by flip (7101) 2 years ago

were you the one that told me to ignore idiots - not sure what this guy is trying to say other than to annoy you - have you read mark twain "the damned human race" - In the February 1901 North American Review, Mark Twain published “To the Person Sitting in Darkness,” perhaps his most popular and influential anti-imperialist essay. It was an acid indictment of the brutalities the British, French, German, Russian and American capitalist governments were committing all over the world. The “Person Sitting in Darkness” is Mark Twain’s ironic term, borrowed from the Gospel According to Matthew and used by the Christian missionaries when referring to the “savage,” “heathen,” “uncivilized” populations of the lands the imperialists were conquering. The author condemned the casual atrocities of Lord Kitchener’s British troops in South Africa, who routinely bayoneted unarmed surrendering Boers, as well as those committed by the American forces in the Philippines, which did the same to the Filipinos. He also pointed out that the Americans had openly proclaimed they were adopting “Kitchener’s Plan”?concentration camps?for their opponents. (Tens of thousands of Boer women and children and black Africans had perished in these camps.)

At the same time, Mark Twain denounced the multinational plundering and dismemberment of China, which had provoked the Boxer Rebellion?the mismatched attempt of the Chinese people to drive the imperialist murderers, who introduced mass opium production and trafficking, out of their country. (In a November 1900 speech he had already proclaimed “I am a Boxer.”) The author charged the American Board of Foreign Missions with looting pauper peasants in China, and condemned the missionaries as part of the “Blessings-of-Civilization-Trust,” that deals in “Glass Beads and Theology, and Maxim guns and Hymn Books, and Trade Gin and Torches of Progress and Enlightenment (patent adjustable ones, good to fire villages with, upon occasion).” At the end of his essay, Mark Twain proposes a flag for the United States’ new “Philippine Province”: “we can just have our usual flag, with the white stripes painted black and the stars replaced by the skull and cross-bones.”

“To the Person Sitting in Darkness” attracted a good deal of attention, and eventually set off a storm of controversy. Even within the Anti-Imperialist League, reaction to Mark Twain’s essay was mixed. Though the League reprinted it as a pamphlet?it had the widest circulation of any League publication?League censors excised significant passages, included the author’s quotation from the New York Sun on the prevailing squalor in the slums of Manhattan’s Lower East Side, as well as his bitter condemnation of the activities of Christian missionaries in China.

The reaction among the missionaries, generals and politicians of imperialism was swift and predictable?they charged the author with treason. However, Mark Twain had considerable popular support, and he did not budge from his positions, but forthrightly defended them in speeches and articles over the next several years. In 1902, General Frederick Funston spoke at the Lotos club in New York, charging that the American anti-imperialists were encouraging Filipino resistance. He also leveled a deadly threat: “I would rather see any one of these men hanged?hanged for treason, hanged for giving aid and comfort to the enemy?than see the humblest soldier in the United States army lying dead on the field of battle” (quoted in Mark Twain’s Weapons of Satire).

Mark Twain’s answer to Funston came in the form of another North American Review essay, called “A Defense of General Funston” (May 1902). He exposed Funston’s vain lies about his battlefield exploits, cataloguing some of the most recent brutalities committed by Funston and his cohorts in the Philippines. These included the capture of Filipino leader Aguinaldo by treachery and deceit, the torture and execution of Filipino prisoners, including the beating of wounded men and the use of water torture (pouring salt water down prisoners’ throats), and most chillingly, the wholesale massacres of Filipino men, women and children, of the kind ordered by General Jacob Smith and carried out by his soldiers. Mark Twain quoted Smith’s command: “Kill and burn?this is no time to take prisoners?the more you kill and burn, the better?Kill all above the age of ten?make Samar a howling wilderness!”

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Many thanx for your extremely interesting and scholarly comment and potted history lesson, which I'm recommending to all interested readers. Furthermore, I also append :

respice ; adspice ; prospice ...

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

The devouring of turkeys did not create the traditional thanksgiving myth here my dear....it was the massacres that paved the way for the newcomers to celebrate their victories which led you all to believe everyone had a reason to give thanks....thanks for what....pale skin domination at that time?.

Now that the good life has broken into itty bitty pieces and the descendants of those "newcomers" are turning against their own kind, you all have the audacity and the nerve to yell "fowl"?

What happened over 500 years ago... Where is all the disgust and hatred against how this nation was first established back then or the other nations destroyed while doing so?

You all are a bunch of spoiled brats! After all.....no one has to die in order to 'WAKE THE F*** UP!

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22162) 2 years ago

I believe that was a metaphor, the turkeys thing.

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Well, is not a metaphor "A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison"?

Therefore, I am sure that in your misconception that I misunderstood what was previously stated, you bypassed the comparison in the phrase "massacres that paved the way for the newcomers to celebrate their victories which led you all to believe everyone had a reason to give thanks....thanks for what....pale skin domination at that time?.

So, massacre turkeys, stuff for slaughter, and served up on a platter... All done to a nation of people that already existed on these shores....

A purely visible metaphor I might add which most "alleged intellectuals" pretend not to understand or just totally ignore!

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22162) 2 years ago

No, the metaphor is more about how turkeys would not vote for Thanksgiving because Thanksgiving is harmful to them.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

You've got a good heart but banging your head against a wall won't help it, lol !!

ad iudiucium ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22162) 2 years ago

Thought I'd give it one last try.

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Hope springs eternal", huh ? I can dig that !

dum spiro, spero ...

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago
[-] -2 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Exactly, so how harmful is that false Thanksgiving concept then and why should it exist?

Still ignoring your own failings at learning the truth about your great "white" fathers? Or perhaps you all really know, but maintain your oath?

Until you all face reasons why this country is in the shape it is in, I would advise you to read shadz66's next comment and adhere to it!

Most of you like pointing the finger but fail to look in the mirror or at your own willingness to let others blood further your own futile existence.

I do believe that era in time is coming to an end, ad hoc, your own confused frustration.

You can argue with me till the "cows come home", yet it will never change what this new nation of people did to the oldest civilizations of the earth,

"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

Remember, "savages" were not those people you all claimed wore "alleged" loin clothes or feathers or carry bows and arrows or have chains on their ankles....but they came in ships, carrying guns and perpetuating a falseness of a purity that would rather murder and rape than uplift.

This country has been cursed by savagery, slaughter and falsehood and is still present today, in the ground you walk on, amongst everyone.....So on that note...

Learn the truth about the past, then you might be able to handle your own futures here.

No one owes you anything!

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (22162) 2 years ago

You are quite mistaken in addressing me in such a way, but anger and misinterpretation are your prerogative. The saying "Turkeys voting for Thanksgiving" has nothing to do with the indigenous peoples and how poorly they were treated. I am well aware of that history.

[-] -2 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Look girly, if I was really angry, I wouldn't take time to explain history on here. I just get tired of these Bull shyt theory of you alls. You all are crying on here as if you deserve some kind of compensation due to the fact that your "forefathers" allegedly created something outstanding on these shores? The outstanding was already here before their arrival!

I doubt you will ever know the truth. Especially since you are calling those who lived here before the pale skin nations of Europe arrived "indigenous peoples".

You all don't even know the half of it and have been duped by your own kind and still buy into it!

These "indigenous" had names, tribes, a flag, a governmental system, trade, cities, books, libraries, places of worship and the ability to build with what the earth provided thousands of years before some Columbus bull shyt stories! After all it took almost 700 years to try, and I do mean try, to destroy all that these nations as well as what they had created. Face it folks, you are trampling on your mothers and fathers graves and civilizations everyday and don't even know they are of the same blood as you!

The sooner you all realize its all a hoax, the better this nation of ours will be!

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22162) 2 years ago

I don't need your history lesson. And where do you get off calling me girly? Don't comment to me again. Take your anger and warped thoughts elsewhere.

[-] -2 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

I will not! I will ram this down your throats in the same manner it was rammed down the throats (and elsewhere) of those whose blood, lives and sanity was destroyed because of hatefulness and greed from your alleged founding fathers. This country is doomed unless you all recognize!!!

Now, if those indigenous people had to tolerate that shyt......what the hell makes you think you all are so f***in special??

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22162) 2 years ago

Look. I freaking agree with you. I know the history. But, you don't know me yet you attack. It's nuts. I don't deal with nuts.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I do tho'. Brazil, Cashew, Hazel, Pecan or just Common Ground / Pea ?

Forgetaboutit - IF you're allergic tho' ! Phfooooooo ....

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22162) 2 years ago

LOL! :)

[-] -1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

No, I'm not nuts, just a historian.... But then again....look around you...Riddle me this.... If you had done to a nation of peoples what was done to the indigenous, century after century, perpetrated the lies of your alleged greatness while driving the descendants of the indigenous insane by all manners of murder, rape, slavery and discrimination with your hatred and lies, and still try to continue the said same actions to this day.....tell me...

Who are actually the NUTCASES....Hmmm?

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22162) 2 years ago

MY hatred and lies! You are nuts! Historian! How so?

[-] -3 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

As stated before on this forum....if the hood fits...wear it...

If not, take this discussion to another level of becoming more educated and enlightened about the world around you.

It is really not my problem alone since, this is a social problem and everyone should do their part to solve it....

[-] 3 points by Renneye (4007) 2 years ago

Listen, you big galute! I've read your posts off and on for months now. All this mysterious "I know what you don't know...and you better just figure it out" bit has gotten tired.

If there's something you want us to know that you have a defined knowledge of because of your career path or history...great! But out with it already.

If you want to teach...then teach!

You look down your nose at all us 'clueless retards', purporting to be educated about things we are not. We then say...ok, inform us. To which you reply...go figure it out.

If this information is so important for us to know because if we don't learn it, it will mean our doom...and you have quick access to that information because you know exactly what to look for....then please help us and include the links to the documents, books, etc.

If you're an educator, you must know by now that you may have to list those links in many, many posts in order to get the message through.

Educate and give dignity...don't set people up to shoot them down. That's all.

[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I think 'OldWorldDisorder' more than anything else, is this pos(t)er's penchant !!!

Long time no hear "galute" though, lol :-)

verum ex absurdo ...

[-] -3 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

My, my, my...even a parent gets angry at their child when that child refuses to pay attention and learn.
So. what makes you all any different from children? You of all people, if you have followed me like you say you have and I do believe you are lying. know that I have put forth evidence and truths regarding what I have posted... I have posted many links, you all have ignored them. I have given dates, historical quotes by many of your leaders, Benjamin Franklin, Abraham Lincoln. Vasco De Gama, etc, etc. etc... You act as if you don't know who they are....

I gave you names of books, literary works and you still refuse to acknowledge it.... Even Scientific studies...and it goes in one ear and out the other never touching your gray matter...

So....what more can I do? I have tried my best with this class, but you all still got a failing grade.. Now, is that my fault or the fact that you all have a hard time comprehending any information that proves you all are out of touch with reality? Don't blame me because I gave up on the lot of you.

Now, if you want to know....go back over any of my earlier posts and follow those links....I don't have a damn thing I need to prove to you "clueless retards" so stop behaving badly on here and stop acting as if I'm hurting your feelings.

You all don't have any feelings otherwise you all wouldn't be in the mess you are in to this day!

[-] 3 points by Renneye (4007) 2 years ago

Reply to Nwo post below ~ It takes a brave person to make a genuine apology ~ and I appreciate that. Stick around Nwo, I'm sure we can learn a lot from you.

[-] 3 points by Renneye (4007) 2 years ago

Perhaps its the delivery. After one "You all", its enough for a person to turn their head is disgust.

The haughty self appointed OWS 'father figure'... and 'you' against 'all of us' approach is not getting anyone to listen to you.

You are a mere mortal with a higher level of knowledge in one particular area.

You're right...parents get angry with their children. But a good parent never gives up on their children....and yes, you did say that you have given up on us. Believe me, I understand your frustration.

So, if you've given up on us...that's fine...its your call. But if you're going to stick around...quit talking down your nose at us.

[-] 7 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

You are absolutely correct. After I left my tirade I thought about it.. I have no reason to lash out at anyone here due to the fact that I came to the realization that we are all victims in this power struggle of greed and corruption.

Therefore, I wish to apologize to each and everyone who may have been offended by anything considered insulting on here.

Yet, understand, there is a lot of information, on the internet, in books, on Public Television, National Radio, Newspapers that let us know we have and are continuing to be duped.
So, don't give up on America, per se, just understand that it is time for each and everyone of us to realize we cannot rely on the old ways, the old thoughts, the old indoctrination, the old bigoted folks, or the old governmental sell outs to get us out of this mess.
We are on our own, so take time to see what your part in all this was, is and shall be....but that comes with educating yourselves to the realities of the past, present, in order to correct the future. Stay safe everyone!

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I think the people are just resigned to go along with the system

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

~}~ 'nWo' - u r loved ; yr wrds below mv us all ~{~

respice ; adspice ; prospice ...

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Errrrrr ... Ohhh Kaaay !!! Good job that I'm on a different continent then !! I hit a nerve - tho' I know not how exactly ! Ho hum & thanx, as it's been a while since someone called me "dear" on the forum, lol.

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Hit a nerve? How sweet....

This is still the greatest country in the world due to those who helped make it rich and those who keep it morally strong...regardless..

There are no nerves to hit in this day and age...just attitude readjustments to reality and the truth.... I for one know all about this great nation of ours, its inception and its potential changes and it does not make me hate it one bit.

Because I know that one does not have to shed any blood to WAKE THE F*** UP!!!!

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

First "dear", now "sweet" - sorry but I'm spoken for ;-)

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Those terms of endearment are usually used by more experienced mature adults for those whose lack of knowledge of reality and world domination are still that of a child.

Obviously, with that response of yours, I am correct in using them! How infantile!

Now, GROW UP.....and face your future!

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Thanx for that & why not educate us with some links ? Wouldn't that be more useful and productive than useless (though sometimes fun) petulant squabbling ?

et mea culpa ...

[-] -2 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Links on what?

Look it up yourself....Ask yourselves....who were and are the true original people on this continent, where did they originate, how did they get here and who were their mothers and fathers? Then find out why Benjamin Franklin and others felt that the dark skinned people on these shores could become more lighter with the influx of immigrants from Europe within two to three generations... Then find out who were the pale skin nations of Europes mothers and fathers, then.....trust me....you won't want to know!

In reality, I doubt seriously that you have the audacity to believe that I believe that you don't know all this?

LOL

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I can do abrasive, bullheaded, confrontational, disruptive, egotistic, flippant, petulant & snobbish too but usually I try not to ; sometimes apologise when I do and try to moderate it if I feel it coming on. IF you don't know how to attach links (I didn't once) and many (incl. me) will help you. Don't be your own worst enemy and bear in mind that we here are mostly potentially friends who have never yet met, so please stop reading "How To Loose Friends & Alienate People" ;-)

pax et lux ; hic et ubique ; nunc et semper ...

[-] -1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

It is good you are angry. That lets me know that deep in your subconscious, you know there just might be some truth to the fact that you don't want to face the truth. Not my problem now...I am just here to open the process of thought for most of you! I am glad to know I have accomplished my mission.

Men/women want not the light, and when it shines in the dark, they do not understand what it is.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22162) 2 years ago

Do you think only Native Americans have been wronged on this good earth? Or that they have been wronged the most? That kind of hubris tells me you lack a knowledge of world history that perhaps you could benefit from.

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

See my friend, you are not fully aware of history....

The majority of this country has been indoctrinated into believing that this was only a civilization of pure alleged Native Americans and are not fully educated in history due to records, books, etc being destroyed, or confiscated and hidden.
The ones who existed here before the European "recorded history" will never fully be divulged to you or your families, ever....it is a sincere undertaking to research this.

I will say this for the last time....you know I am explaining the truth...truths you never want to face....so on that note...I truly do feel sorry for you all..

Whatever the political agendas bring forth, or create, or whoever gets in office......remember....your forefathers helped shape this mess and this is what generations of people hiding their heads in the sand like ostriches...ALLOWED.

Nothing was ever promised to any of you! You all took it for granted.

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

resources come from the sun and the earth

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22162) 2 years ago

Hmmm. Conspiracy theory?

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Hmm, good point.....

Yet, with individuals who constantly think "conspiracy".....it plays well for the betterment of those who can work their magic over your mind to make you stay away from truth. Individuals with Mental slavery make the best followers.

Now....would I do the same if I was afraid of losing control and had power over the masses?

Why should I?

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I'm not "angry" dude - I'm just sad that you seem to have vanished up your own (x), sigh :-(

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] 0 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

You have yet to reach that level of maturity to even begin to understand your world, let alone your own history.

But that's ok. With fools like you around, the elitists will continue to have a good life!

[-] 5 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

stop insulting posters

[-] 4 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

Insults are due to a lack of self esteem of the insulter. Better to build him up than tear him down.

[-] -1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Was that an insult?

I thought I was telling the truth!

LOL

[-] -3 points by funkytown (-374) 2 years ago

Yea... but self degradation is psychological defeatism - highly detrimental to any positive future. I suspect she's working for the enemy.

[-] -1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Depends on the melanin input my man! After all, these are the fundamentals that this country was founded on and still exists. So, are you for or against melanin? After all, a man with melanin runs the country, while those without (majority) look at it as blasphemy. Either way, the future of this country is totally not what was planned by the founding fathers...agreed? That is what everyone is so up in arms about. But remember. ...No one has to die in order to 'WAKE THE F*** UP!

[-] 1 points by tangential (33) 2 years ago

Although it isn't a competition for which country is greatest, I would definitely recommend anyone who can and has time for it to live in other countries for some years to gain a greater appreciation and respect for what we have here. That said, a lot of the greatness we have is due to the great contributions and sacrifices of our predecessors, not necessarily because of the latest wave of greedy politicians and businessmen!

[-] 2 points by littleelvis8 (3) 2 years ago

You sir, are full of it.

America rode on the backs of slaves, that's why she became what she is today. A morsel of food, a barn and good excercise from beating your slaves made running a cotton business (or any other business for that matter) a cheap endeavor. Until the brother is paid in full for lifting this country up, there will be no peace, and mark my words, there will be no surrender.

[-] 1 points by tangential (33) 2 years ago

Which is why I wrote the word "sacrifice" and not "exploits". ;)

[-] -1 points by funkytown (-374) 2 years ago

Well, then, "to war"... chose your weapon.

The problem with the brother is that generations of dependency have created an animal incapable of feeding himself; they've forgotten how to hunt. Your ancestors weren't like this - they were very capable - and that's the reason they were employed here; they were enslaved by the African monarchs themselves.

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Please don't be offended if I again reference a 'glass half empty', just in relation to your comment above. Can we assume her to be genuine - unless we know otherwise ? Let us take heart from her words :

  • "I long for day where we stand together strong and enlightened. Our call to liberty is not only a ticket to a journey, nor is it a ticket to a better life; it is a ticket to change the world. It is our calling. We do not need magic, nor do we need authority. We contain the power in our hands from what we have touched, our ears from what have listened, our mouths from what we have spoke, and our hearts from what we have felt."

dum spiro, spero ...

[Deleted]

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I too abhor "nationalism" & this is closer to "my song" :

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

We live in a time, when the United States ranks 31 in math, 23 in science, and 17 in reading, out of 74 countries by the Organization of Economic Co-operation and Development. This proves that my generation is among one of the worst generations in educational history

proof would have to be based on our own educational history

not some comparison to other countries in the world

[-] 1 points by engineer4 (352) 2 years ago

An excellent point Matt. It is unfair to prejudge potential. We might be surprised at what they might do. This country finds a way. Always has and I believe always will.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

19 ? Really? Awesome(?) or WHAT???

Tweeted!!!!

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Exactly ! Tweet this pls : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGRu1uqJGkY !!!

multum in parvo ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Global Insurrection Against Banker Occupation (GIABO) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGRu1uqJGkY

Already done - I tweeted your post - so this link is out there now as well. {:-])

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Appreciatin' your facilitatin' :-)

pax ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

LOL - happy to share the treasures you find.

[-] 0 points by funkytown (-374) 2 years ago

Some minor first draft stuff but nice, impressive skills; I like it. The dems could use writers more like these; what they lack is an emotional sincerity.

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Consider : They "lack ... emotional sincerity" - because they are 'unemotional & insincere' !!!

ad iudicium ...

[-] 0 points by funkytown (-374) 2 years ago

Yea... As political actors, their speeches often intuitively inform us of insincerity.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by Lucky1 (-125) from Wray, CO 2 years ago

You are about 70 years too late. May I suggest that you stop dreaming of an ideal that is dead.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Don't be such a grumpy curmudgeon please 'L1'. If 19 year olds are to "stop dreaming of an ideal", then consider, what hope is there for older dreamers - like us perhaps ?!

credite posteri ...

[-] -1 points by oneandone (-67) 2 years ago

Whenever I hear self loathing liberals and their whiny hand wringing about America, I think....get the fuck out. Go to one of those "other greatest countries"....show us the way professor. Why stay here?

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

TCH ; Tch ; tch & do NOT confuse me for a "liberal", LOL !!! Good luck with extracting your apparently empty head from your probably rather fat (x) !! Be good now !

nosce te ipsum ...

[-] -1 points by oneandone (-67) 2 years ago

Couldn't answer the question could you?....Figures

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I remain on this planet because it is our beautiful, fragile, only and shared home. What other dark, dimension did you fold in from ?

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] -2 points by oneandone (-67) 2 years ago

Fragile???..My ass

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

The Earth abides until The Sun dies but life is dependent on the health of The Biosphere and we are living through the equivalent of an extinction event right now. Please get it together to engage with :

fiat lux ...

[-] -3 points by oneandone (-67) 2 years ago

Oh yea...we're almost extinct.....

What a Fucking bag idiots you are

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Your extinction may well be a plus for The Planet & thanx for The Bumpage !!

temet nosce ...

[-] -2 points by oneandone (-67) 2 years ago

As soon as the limousine liberals move out of their Miami Beachfront homes, as the waters rise...then I'll believe you.

HA HA HA

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I drive a 14 yr old Honda, have never been in a limousine but luckily live in inland hill country ! Ever heard of The Maldives or Bangladesh for example ?!! Are you laughing at them too ?!!!

multum in parvo ...

[-] -1 points by oneandone (-67) 2 years ago

I never laugh at the Maldives....but I openly guffaw daily at Bangladesh.

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Interesting answer & I take it that you still had no "luck with extracting your apparently empty head from your probably rather fat (x) !!"

temet nosce ...

[-] -2 points by oneandone (-67) 2 years ago

Continue your hand wringing about our impending doom......I'm cranking my AC even more.

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Thus as 'Green Day' sang it - you live it !!!

nosce te ipsum ...

[-] -1 points by Lucky1 (-125) from Wray, CO 2 years ago

Wow. A whole 19 years old.....

[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 2 years ago

This person is not even wet behind the ears yet and she thinks she knows what this country is about?

Give me a break. I'll be willing to bet she doesn't even know what it means to work towards success like a lot of people her age - that's because she hasn't been out of the city she lives in.

There's a lot she just doesn't know - sad to say.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Give me a break", you say ? How about we give the author, Sarah Harvard "a break" ?! I get your point but though of course being 19 - "There's a lot she just doesn't know" - why is it so "sad to say" ? Maybe we can appreciate that there are still some actively, engaged young people in The USA ! People - young and old - who still dare to dream !! Just saying !!!

pax ...

[-] 0 points by Shayneh (-482) 2 years ago

How about if she looks at things from a positive perspective instead of a negative perspective.

There's enough negativitism going around in this country now when it comes to how the economy should be improved.

Hell, I can find lots of negative things to say about this country but I won't - I won't because I know what this country is all about -

When a person condems the Country she condems the people who live in that country. How's that for an answer.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

What if the country is run by people who dont represent the population?

[-] 1 points by Shayneh (-482) 2 years ago

Look, things in this country are screwed up and it didn't happen overnight and it won't be fixed overnight.

It's going to take the people of this country to get involved with the politicians to route out the bad ones and replace them with politicians who will stand for the people.

It's the government and the politicans that's screwing this country up and the people have to do something about it - plain and simple.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"When a person condems the Country she condems the people who live in that country." - REALLY ?!

ad iudicium ...

[-] -3 points by funkytown (-374) 2 years ago

Great Britain has been experiencing self degradation for two generations now; is it any wonder then that the Muslim children born and raised in this country go off to train of Jihad against it? All they have ever heard of their country is evil.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

How many children are doing that ?! What is the proportion of all Muslim children born in GB who go of to become 'Jihadis' ?!! A tiny, tiny, minuscule minority - I suspect !!! What about Americans & Brits born in 'USUK' - who take $/£ to go kill 'johnny foreigner' in Illegal Wars abroad ? What should we think about them on the basis of your 'logic' ? Your two comments on this thread, (the immediately above and http://occupywallst.org/forum/america-is-not-the-greatest-country-in-the-world-b/#comment-825407 - made just an hour apart, could almost have come from two different people.

minima maxima sunt ...

[-] 0 points by funkytown (-374) 2 years ago

We can't continue as Great Britain has for the past two decades in psychological self degradation and expect the children of the future to be hopeful, optimistically supportive or productive, or anything other than angry and ambivalent. And this is occurring in Great Britain.

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Now I hear you & I mostly agree. That is absolutely why "OWS & OLSX" [ http://occupylsx.org/ ] are so very important. I know more than a little about GB:UK - I was born there ;-)

Onwards & Upwards : Resistance Is Fertile !!!

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] -3 points by oneandone (-67) 2 years ago

poor tortured self loathing liberals. No known cure for their agonizing guilt of living in America.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

The extraction of your head from your (x) is highly recommended !!!

veritas vos liberabit ...