Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: "Along with the Arctic ice, the rich world's smugness will melt", by George Monbiot .

Posted 11 years ago on Aug. 29, 2012, 6:20 p.m. EST by shadz66 (19985)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

"Along with the Arctic ice, the rich world's smugness will melt",

by George Monbiot (The Guardian, UK).

There are no comparisons to be made. This is not like war or plague or a stockmarket crash. We are ill-equipped, historically and psychologically, to understand it, which is one of the reasons why so many refuse to accept that it is happening.

What we are seeing, here and now, is the transformation of the atmospheric physics of this planet. Three weeks before the likely minimum, the melting of Arctic sea ice has already broken the record set in 2007. The daily rate of loss is now 50% higher than it was that year. The daily sense of loss – of the world we loved and knew – cannot be quantified so easily.

The Arctic has been warming roughly twice as quickly as the rest of the northern hemisphere. This is partly because climate breakdown there is self-perpetuating. As the ice melts, for example, exposing the darker sea beneath, heat that would previously have been reflected back into space is absorbed.

This great dissolution, of ice and certainties, is happening so much faster than most climate scientists predicted that one of them reports: "It feels as if everything I've learned has become obsolete." In its last assessment, published in 2007, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change noted that "in some projections, Arctic late-summer sea ice disappears almost entirely by the latter part of the 21st century". These were the most extreme forecasts in the panel's range. Some scientists now forecast that the disappearance of Arctic sea-ice in late summer could occur in this decade or the next.

As I've warned repeatedly, but to little effect, the IPCC's assessments tend to be conservative. This is unsurprising when you see how many people have to approve them before they are published. There have been a few occasions – such as its estimate of the speed at which glaciers would be lost in the Himalayas – on which the panel has overstated the case. But it looks as if these will be greatly outnumbered by the occasions on which the panel has understated it.

The melting disperses another belief: that the temperate parts of the world – where most of the rich nations are located – will be hit last and least, while the poorer nations will be hit first and worst. New knowledge of the way in which the destruction of the Arctic sea ice affects northern Europe and North America suggests that this is no longer true. A paper published earlier this year in Geophysical Research Letters shows that Arctic warming is likely to be responsible for the extremes now hammering the once-temperate nations.

The north polar jet stream is an air current several hundred kilometres wide, travelling eastwards around the hemisphere. The current functions as a barrier, separating the cold, wet weather to the north from the warmer, drier weather to the south. Many of the variations in our weather are caused by great travelling meanders – Rossby waves – in the jet stream.

Arctic heating, the paper shows, both slows the Rossby waves and makes them steeper and wider. Instead of moving on rapidly, the weather gets stuck. Regions to the south of the stalled meander wait for weeks or months for rain; regions to the north (or underneath it) wait for weeks or months for a break from the rain. Instead of a benign succession of sunshine and showers, we get droughts or floods. During the winter a slow, steep meander can connect us directly to the polar weather, dragging severe ice and snow far to the south of its usual range. This mechanism goes a long way towards explaining the shift to sustained – and therefore extreme – weather patterns around the northern hemisphere.

I have no idea what is coming to Europe and North America this winter and next summer, in the wake of the record ice melt, but it's unlikely to be pleasant. Please note that this record represents a loss of about 30% of Arctic sea ice, against the long-term average. When that climbs to 50% or 70% or 90%, the impacts are likely to be worse.

Our governments do nothing. Having abandoned any pretence of responding to the environmental crisis during the Earth summit in June, now they stare stupidly as the ice on which we stand dissolves. Nothing – or worse than nothing. Their one unequivocal response to the melting has been to facilitate the capture of the oil and fish it exposes.

The companies that caused this disaster are scrambling to profit from it. On Sunday Shell requested an extension to its exploratory drilling period in the Chukchi Sea, off the north-west coast of Alaska. This would push its operations hard against the moment when the ice re-forms and any spills they cause are locked in. The Russian oil company Gazprom is using the great melt to try to drill in the Pechora Sea, north-east of Murmansk. After turning its Arctic lands in the Komi republic into the Niger delta of the north (repeated oil spills are left unremediated in the tundra), Russia wants to extend this industry into one of the world's most fragile ecosystems, where ice, storms and darkness make decontamination almost impossible.

As I write, activists from Greenpeace, whom I regard as heroes, are chained to Gazprom's supply vessel, preventing the rig from operating. These people are stepping in where all governments have failed. David Cameron, who still claims to lead the greenest government ever, is no longer hugging huskies. In June he struck an agreement with the Norwegian prime minister "to enable sustainable development of Arctic energy". Sustainable development, of course, means drilling for oil.

Is this how our children will see it: that we destroyed the benign conditions that made our world of wonders possible, and then used the opportunity to amplify the damage? All of us, of course, can claim to have acted with other aims in mind, or not to have acted at all, as the other immediacies of life seemed more important. But – unless we respond at last – the results follow as surely as if we had sought to engineer them.

Stupidity, greed, passivity? Just as comparisons evaporate, so do these words. The ice, that solid platform on which, we now discover, so much rested, melts into air. Our pretensions to peace, prosperity and progress are likely to follow.

"And like the baseless fabric of this vision,

The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces,

The solemn temples, the great globe itself,

Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve."

~

acquirit qui tuetur ...

~

[Article copied verbatim under "Fair Use" from : http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/27/arctic-ice-rich-world-disaster & please use this to access all embedded corroborative links].

76 Comments

76 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

There is alas, a rather overwhelming international scientific agreement in the actuality of rising temperatures. Even if the US Govt. wishes not to accept or acknowledge the science of major US scientific institutions, such as The Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute ( http://www.whoi.edu/ ) or The Scripps Institute of Oceanography ( http://sio.ucsd.edu/ ) etc., internationally the scientists have known for well over a decade that 'something' is afoot.

'Mother Nature' has locked away VAST amounts of Ancient Carbon in the form of peat, coal, oil and gas. We know that there is a Carbon Cycle just as there is a Water Cycle, but that the time scale of the Carbon Cycle (which includes Geological processes) is much, much longer than in the case of water (simplified here to : evaporation, condensation, precipitation & run off).

Therefore, how can we as a sentient species, consider that we can bypass the Carbon Cycle and extract huge amounts of carbon based fuels, burn them and almost instantly (in geological time) return this carbon to the atmosphere Without There Being Any Repercussions ?! What is our individual and collective intuition on this matter ?!! That Carbon Dioxide even tho' it is essential to life via photo-synthesis, is also a 'Greenhouse Gas' is undeniable. The Greenhouse Effect is well understood and without it life on this planet would not exist. We owe our previously relatively stable climate to this and the level of CO2 has been pretty stable at ~ 300ppm (0.03%) for a very, very long time (verifiable from ice and lake sediment cores). However, that proportion has risen in the last 40 years to ~390ppm (0.039%) which is a 30% increase in CO2 levels.

Further, both water vapour and methane are also greenhouse gases and the level of both will also rise with rising global temperatures. This is termed 'positive feedback'. A Human Influenced and possible 'run away' Greenhouse Effect is empirically, scientifically and mathematically possible, so the question is do we accept or 'believe' that it is happening ?

The atmosphere is but a film above us like cling-film on a water melon. It's easy to assume that we can have no effect on the vastness of the atmosphere but this is not true. As the atmosphere warms, the dynamic and apparently chaotic but actually relatively ordered 'Climate System', has 'more energy' and will operate at a higher energetic level. Thus, 'The Climate' will be seemingly more chaotic to our perception. We are already witnessing weather records being taken to new levels throughout the world and this matter is not really up for debate - unless there is a truly vast international conspiracy of scientists at all levels !

Globally, as a species we can feel and detect that 'something is changing', that something is different now to how things were but we may choose to behave like the proverbial 'frog in a pan on a stove' &/or as a 'rabbit caught in a bright light' !!

Sadly, I don't really think that we will stop either our behaviour or its results in the short or even medium terms. It's now a question of adaptation, however consider this : That "The International 'Darksider-Sith' Ruling Elites" [translation : 'Parasites' !] actually do NOT mind countless hundreds of millions of the rest of us perishing if it means more for them and Less Of Us !!!

The above is compounded by 'Militant Pro-Industrialism' as well as by Religious Nutters - who IF they have belief in 'Biblical End Times' (ie some Jews, Christians and Muslims !!!) do not think human action can possibly affect The Earth's Climate as only 'God' could do that AND when compounded by the ignorant, those in denial and those who know but just don't give a shit ... well, we have quite a recipe for forthcoming perturbations, to say the least !!

...~*~...

fiat lux

[Deleted]

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

"Climate Change – Our Real Bequest to Future Generations", by Dean Baker :

"Deficit hawks try to scare us about the debt we're leaving. That's economic nonsense – unlike the costs of global warming".

Thanx 'P' for your considered response and points. The Canadian Government & its Neo-Liberal policies are increasingly become disconnected from The Canadian 99% & globally, tho 'war war' is ever around the corner, perhaps 'jaw jaw' can save us yet.

dum spiro, spero ...

[Deleted]

[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Re. "Debt", you are not "scaring" me at all as I have lots to say on that matter and I am thoroughly recommending 'David Graeber's "Debt, The First 5,000 Years" (ISBN : 978-1-61219-181-2). I bought it very recently it but have yet to start it ... it's a bit big, thick and intimidating, lol.

Here's to 'jaw-jaw over war-war' :-)

pax, amor et lux ...

[Deleted]

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Oh well, re. "Debt & Money", I'll just refer you to these links then :

"None of our problems will disappear until we correct the creation, supply and circulation of money. Once the money problem is solved, everything else will fall into place."

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas ...

[Deleted]

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

J.K.Galbraith (1908-2006) said :

  • “The study of money, above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it. The process by which banks create money is so simple the mind is repelled. With something so important a deeper mystery seems only decent.”

Thanx 'P' & I'll look at your post now.

fiat lux ...

[Deleted]

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

The Masters of The Mythical, Magical, Money Matrix know very well that 'They' [<0.01%] are Naked Emperors living in grand houses of cards & are fiddling furiously as 'Rome Burns' & The Arctic warms !!

The lunatics have taken over asylum & Rmoney/Ryan/Rubio Romulans aRe set for The Oval Office !!!

We all had a blue moon recently !!

The Earth turns & plots thicken !

respice ; adspice ; prospice ...

[Deleted]

[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Cool, calculated, cryptic & complex, un peu - comme toi, n'est ce pas ? Encore, mes mercis.

vale ...

[Deleted]

[Deleted]

[Deleted]

[Deleted]

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

You're welcome & don't think that I didn't note your 'patronising' advice either, lol ;-)

quod me nutrit me destruit ...

[Deleted]

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

You mean you aren't protean ? Lol !

pax et lux ...

[Deleted]

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Cool & I'm going to use my reply to you to lay down some info. so thanx & further to my post above, please also find the following to follow my comment above :

a) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_cycle ;

b) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_the_Earth%27s_atmosphere &

c) "Beyond the Brink -- A Climate Change Investigation" :

sic transit gloria mundi ...

[Deleted]

[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Thanx 'P' et a toi : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGRu1uqJGkY ;-)

en avant ...

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

a) "Arctic sea ice shrinks to smallest extent ever recorded", by John Vidal & Adam Vaughan :

"Rate of summer ice melt smashes two previous record lows and prompts warnings of accelerated climate change".

b) "The staggering decline of sea ice at the frontline of climate change", by John Vidal :

"Scientists on board Greenpeace's vessel exploring the minimum extent of the ice cap are shocked at the speed of the melt".

c) "Vanishing Arctic ice is the planet's white flag of surrender", by Damian Carrington :

"The planet's last great global ice melt left a benign and balmy climate in which civilisation was cradled : the new great melting heralds a grave threat to civilisation."

omnia causa fiunt ...

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

"Our governments do nothing. Having abandoned any pretence of responding to the environmental crisis during the Earth summit in June, now they stare stupidly as the ice on which we stand dissolves. Nothing – or worse than nothing. Their one unequivocal response to the melting has been to facilitate the capture of the oil and fish it exposes." -

I quote from the posted article, as it warranted repeating given your comment and consider that it is only 'Rich Country Hubris' that has us as the survivors of any calamitous climate changes but that may well be a serious conceit on our part.

'It's now a question of adaptation, however consider this : That "The International 'Darksider-Sith' Ruling Elites" [translation : 'Parasites' !] actually do NOT mind countless hundreds of millions of the rest of us perishing if it means more for them and Less Of Us'.

e tenebris ...

[Deleted]

[Deleted]

[Deleted]

[Deleted]

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Steady On bro' !!! Stand fast in the ranks there !! No we ain't - NOT necessarily !

dum spiro, spero ...

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Your penchant for Anglo-Saxon Agriculturalisms is noted & ain't a patch on your 'sideburn-bird', lolol !!!

You can stand easy now or generally lounge around 'hic', lol !!

verum ex absurdo ...

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Your headache or mine ? Potato ; Pota-toe ? Tomato ... awww 'ketchup' will ya ?

Brandy and reefer here but it was a Blue Moon yesterday so it's allowed, rt ? lol !

in vino veritas ; in fumo fumitas ...

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Ok but ToMAHto is still always exactly that, with or without lettuce, bacon and bread, lol !!!

in vino veritas ...

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

"Ketchup" & get with the plan : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxZEkncWTew ;-)

ne quid nimis ...

[-] 2 points by richardkentgates (3269) 11 years ago

Untrue. The not caring par that is. It only seems that way because we are used to the people that promise solutions being publicly visible. But, the politicians are visible because they have traded in integrity for celebrity, therein drowning out the actions by those government employees who are doing their jobs.

Example, Chris Hayes said last night that Manhattan is preparing it's subway system to prevent flooding when the tides do rise.

So in the face of political celebrity, the media has no time to do an interview with say, the engineers behind saving the subways. Long ago, media would be covering such stories, but now the glitz and glamour drown out anything of substance in our media. Sensationalism.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

The Politicians via their Polytricks have not so much "traded in integrity for celebrity" as simply whored themselves out to the highest corporate bidder and they would rather shun "celebrity" for lucre. They think that they have limited time to stuff their mouths and pockets with gold and they would rather do that without the dim light of celebrity, I suspect.

However your wider point, that there are lots of good people out there doing what they can to try to ameliorate, mitigate and remedy, the worst effects of a changing climate is absolutely true & yes 'rkg', "glitz and glamour (&) sensationalism" drown out the substantive in our 'smoke & "myrrors' ; short attention span ; celebrity culture.

fallaces sunt rerum species ...

[-] 2 points by richardkentgates (3269) 11 years ago

lol. Word.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

One thing though - once the cat is definitely out of the bag - and people are having to wear fire-suits to go out of doors - Well then - We will throw everything we have into dealing with the situation - Right? um right?

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

'Bolting horses & barn doors', come to mind alas.

spero meliora ...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

All the more reason that I will stay active. We have environmental damage consequences to live with - there is no doubt about that.

Can we engineer a clean power infrastructure to help us live through the consequences? Only time will tell. But the longer it is put off the less likely it is.

[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

"Climate Change and the Next U.S. Revolution", by Shamus Cooke :

dum spiro, spero ...

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

tweeted.

[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

"Get Used To 'Extreme' Weather, It's The New Normal", by Connie Hedegaard :

"Scientists have been warning us for years that a warmer planet would lead to more extreme weather - and now it's arrived".

Please convey as you see fit.

fiat lux ...

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Thanks shadz. That is the thing that people do not understand about Global Warming - it does not just mean rising temperatures in areas that are out of season - but it also means an increase of turbulent weather _ like heavy rains - lightning and hail storms and Hurricanes and tornadoes and blizzards or even a shift in the jet-stream and so unexpected and prolonged sever cold snaps coupled with unusual dry spells - Turbulent and mixed-up unpredictable weather. Thanks for the link I will bookmark it and look into it.

As well as Repeat it : http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/sep/19/extreme-weather-new-normal-climate-change

[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

The Climate is an Energetic System. More Energy in 'The Ocean-Atmosphere Continuum' equates to a more 'chaotic system' - to our rather limited understanding. We can all see the effects as things are NOT as they were before. Weather records are being broken everywhere. What's NOT to understand ?! Thanx for tweeting, D.

ad iudicium ...

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

No prob - I believe in spreading the word - and the internet can be an awesome communicator.

Some people need to be struck right between the eyes with the unusual for it to begins to sink in - that - HEY - THAT WAS UNUSUAL - but is happening to often to be a fluke.

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (5843) 11 years ago

Thank you for post shadz. And the oil companies view the melting , as a great exploration opportunity.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23769) 9 years ago

"Earth has lost half of its wildlife in the past 40 years, says WWF"

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/sep/29/earth-lost-50-wildlife-in-40-years-wwf

And, sadly, the Sixth Mass Extinction is underway. "It's frightening but true: Our planet is now in the midst of its sixth mass extinction of plants and animals — the sixth wave of extinctions in the past half-billion years. We're currently experiencing the worst spate of species die-offs since the loss of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago."

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/programs/biodiversity/elements_of_biodiversity/extinction_crisis/

"The Earth has been stripped of up to 90% of its species five times before in the past 450 million years. Now it's happening again—and this time there's no rogue asteroid responsible."

http://time.com/3035872/sixth-great-extinction/

Hi Nevada, hope you are well.

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (5843) 9 years ago

Hi beautifulworld,

Shocking. We are trying to use as little resource as possible, but so many just don't understand the gravity of it all.

Thank you for the links, and fine words as always. Everyone on Earth should see this.

Doing well, and hope you and yours are well also.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (23769) 9 years ago

We are in a cataclysmic period that perhaps we don't feel, because it is happening over, say, 100 years, but the results will impact our children and grandchildren tremendously. Humanity needs to get it's head out of the sand and face the facts.

Unfortunately, capitalism has created a society that is all about the here and now, and not about securing a wonderful future for earth and all it's beings.

Glad you are well.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

"Why Twenty-First Century Oil Will Break the Bank -- and the Planet : A Tough-Oil World, by Michael T. Klare :

Thanx 'Nev1' & here's another view of Turkeys voting for Thanksgiving :

quis custodiet ipsos custodes ?

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 11 years ago

This is criminal

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

The Excellent 2007 Australian Doc. Film "Crude" :

Also pick & choose from 'pro & anti' docs. @ : http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/category/environment/ .

respice ; adspice ; prospice ...

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 11 years ago

Top video. Thanks.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Extra shrimp on the barby & a cold one for you, mate ~{~

How's the puppy with the pork bone ? Awwww :-)

pax ...

[-] 4 points by Builder (4202) 11 years ago

We actually call shrimp by another name here. Prawns.

The puppy is in town with the kids today, watching BMX.

I must have been travelling when that video came out.

Good find. Thanks again. ;-)

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Nice & there's a book by the same name by 'Sonia Shah', who is in the documentary !

Show the doc. to your peeps & link on line etc. !! BMX = GR8 !!!

Take care ; stay well ; stay aware ~*~

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 11 years ago

thx

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 9 years ago

the the earth is always at angle to the sun

I don't think the "dark seas" there absorb all that much sun anyway

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Yep & Canada 2050 = Austria 1938 = "Anschluss" !!!

multum in parvo ...

[-] 1 points by FunstonSlabbers (6) from Brunswick, OH 11 years ago

So if we revert to pre industrial age technology we will reverse these effects?

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Your 'Straw Man Argument' falls before it even walks, dude !!!

Who said, implied or inferred that on this thread ?!! NOT me for sure because I am for The Exact Opposite via Mass Free Green Tech etc !!! The fkn 'Market' is the problem !

Nationalise All Power Corporations - and utilise Massive Utilities of Scale !!

Think and please don't just blow brain-farts !!!

ad iudicium ...

[-] 1 points by FunstonSlabbers (6) from Brunswick, OH 11 years ago

Nationalizing utilities will solve the problem? With respect Sir I'm confused. What is the solution?

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

You want spoon feeding ? NOT "solve" but help cope with ! Go figure !!

"Google Is Your Friend" and your imAginAtion is the limit !!!

fiat lux ...

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Funny - well kinda - No no not really = Watch

[-] 2 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 11 years ago

Great! Thanks.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Wouldn't that be something to see happen on a prime-time MSM broadcast? Only I think that they would be trying to tackle her - and we would get one of those old "sorry we are experiencing technical difficulty" messages.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Thanx - I needed a laugh - "kinda" ;-)

verum ex absurdo ...

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Hey - I truly pray that someday we can really have a pee in your pants fall on the ground and roll around belly laugh over that kind of video - a hysterical relief reaction to the fact that we avoided total disaster.

I guess at this point in time - it is more like laughing in the face of danger.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 11 years ago

Too funny!

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

{;-])

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8310) from Phoenix, AZ 11 years ago

Good post shadz, we turn the world over to those who are good at making money, many of whom are sociopaths, we strip government of the power to control money, then we wonder why we can do nothing to change the course of development,

What do I mean when I say "we"? I think I am saying "reason" there is a fear that reason should take a back seat to "random" there is a feeling that if we try to guild the economy we will just mess it up better to leave it to the unseen hand, no picking winners and losers, but what if random chance gives us madmen for Kings, you know it has happened,.

(OK so this is what's it like to get my first comment of the day, I don't know what I'm talking about either by now)

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Thanx 'factsy' & my head is foggy but you make some kind of sense - I think ! Either that or you're as foggy as me !! Either that - or "there's something in the air" !!!

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8310) from Phoenix, AZ 11 years ago

fan of odin really? somebody that can't see what a troll hc is? and you think he's for real, or not whatever, they will cling to their power with all the tools they have, no matter

I got an ideal what we had a "truth" party but for real, tell one lie and we throw you out in a very public way, Americans have become accustom to having a bunch of truths to chose from so they can believe burning oil fights global warming if they want to, everybody afraid of being call of being called one sided if you only report truth.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Re. "odin" - I'm kinda NOT getting where you are coming from & I'm NOT at all sure that I appreciate you tone either. I have seldom had anything but cordial exchanges with him and I am no more a "fan" of his then I am a "fan" of yours. I would really appreciate it if you didn't transpose personal issues onto my innocuous and friendly reply to your initial comment. Re. the rest of your comment - I'm still none the wiser. Perhaps there really is "something in the air" & so I'll let Tom Petty sing it like I'm thinking it :

TOGETHER WE ARE STRONGER !!!

fiat lux ; fiat pax ; fiat justitia raut caelum ...

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8310) from Phoenix, AZ 11 years ago

shady if you don't want people to treat you like a con don't use their tactics

opps I mean shadz.....

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago
[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Thanx for your strong link & http://occupywallst.org/forum/along-with-the-arctic-ice-the-rich-worlds-smugness/#comment-834427 for some more useful information.

fiat lux ...

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

The truth of issues that we face the reality of our time must be shared and circulated - if we are to come together as a people - the people of the world to confront the abuses and demand that clean alternatives be implemented.

Education/Outreach is our hope to achieve a better world for all.

Thanks for your continuing effort to educate.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8310) from Phoenix, AZ 11 years ago

The Guardian is often a source of the best stuff, BBC news does a good job too.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19393075

[Removed]

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 11 years ago

Duelling banjos playing loud.

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 11 years ago

Oh, and comets don't strike. They melt on entry into our space.

Meteors, on the other hand, are like Pink. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY

[-] 1 points by FunstonSlabbers (6) from Brunswick, OH 11 years ago

"White asshole"? "Armageddon"?