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Forum Post: A Trolling Paradise for Trolls

Posted 8 years ago on Nov. 19, 2011, 7:17 a.m. EST by Puzzlin (2898)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

They seem thrive here. Just a gigantic playground to exercise their insult power. So, in the real world they can be more effective in deriding others. They come to confuse and destroy good ideas. They blanket them in their cold dark disregard. It has become unbearable as we have wade through their droppings and every single thread here seems to get infected with their antics served up to squash innocent respectful debate.

It's like if you want to post an good idea here. Your only choice will be to get into the mud pit with them. After putting up with all the disrespect from the trolls eventually many have to leave this realm. It does eventually wear you down.

It has become apparent that as time has gone it has just gotten progressively worse. No end in sight. I really believe there's more trolls here than folks who just want to bounce around ideas. Trolling is the easier road to take by far. Insulting is easy. Just throw out a name to call someone. The subject doesn't matter. Whatever the subject, you just have to call them stupid and you won. It does make the poster feel that way for posting into forum that shows a dismal lack of respect at any level and makes everyone out to be be fools.

My time here is coming to a close as I can no longer deal with the constant barrage of insults and humiliations encountered here. And as others may already know about me. I don't want to get used to the treatment here. My self esteem is way too high to continue in such a forum.

Bottom line, this place has very divisive edge to it. There's little camaraderie here. People helping people just isn't encouraged. Some, who I believe are trolls, think it's just dandy and they enjoy the escapades here.

So, in effect, it's a trolling paradise. They love it here and feel welcome. When all the good posters have left here, they will have no choice but to start feeding off each other, and maybe then, with their purpose complete, they'll be able to leave here with a smile.

For me I'm not smiling. I feel somehow swindled, and wonder why I even bothered with this post. I realize it's my fault for hanging here way too long. Maybe it's a clue for others. Frankly, I look forward to using my time more productively somewhere else.

137 Comments

137 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 6 points by Steve15 (385) 8 years ago

Block them, delete them, screen them who cares? The 1st amendment is the right to assemble in the streets not harass a productive web site. I got deleted and screened from Glenn Becks idiotic site.

[-] 2 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Thanks Steve, I agree. There is boundary for bad behavior.

Certain words show be an automatic boot.

Warn everyone up front, and then violators get booted.

[-] 2 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 8 years ago

Booting people for language sounds like censorship to me. How about an automatic "flag" on messages that use an excess of profanity, or capital letters, or whatever. Then, the readers can decide how much attention to the post. You know, kind of like rating movies.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Actually you have a good point. But I wouldn't leave those filthy words of insults and belittlement hanging around in these threads. They don't deserve to be there, they only remind why there are laws and police enforce them. It starts with words and ends with people getting their heads knocked in. Freedom does have limits.

Using your suggestion I would label the infected thread and then redact the bad language. Then we can see for ourselves if there's any redeeming value in what is said. But I personally get somewhat emotional when ideas are forced down my throat. I do tend to stop listening.

But, you'd have ask why all the effort to save this stuff, as if these trolls are wizards of wisdom. That's usually why they resort to word assault in the first place.

[-] 0 points by CrossingtheDivided (357) from Santa Ysabel, CA 8 years ago

"Certain words show be an automatic boot."<

Uh - WHA?! Who decides what words warrant the boot!? Man, I was with you before that idea. It's how you express the words that is key: continual lack of respect should = temporary ban from site. But that wounldn't stop them. The Occupy websites (unlike, say, Beck's Idiot's Paradise: TheBlaze(dot)commie,) as too easy to get back on the saddle in, to invent a new account/new persona. Unless I'm missing something: are there any ways they screen IP Addresses here? That might be a good idea.

Anyway, I sympathize with the main thrust of what you're sayin'. . . .

'We been spendin' too much of our lives Livin' in an Troller's Paradise I've been rage-red once or twice Livin' in an Troller's Paradise It's hard work to just play nice Livin' in an Troller's Paradise....

'A pro troll kicked me in the butt last week I just smiled at him, and turned the other cheek; I really don't care, in fact I wish him well 'Cause I'll be laughing my head off when he's burning in hell'. . .

  • awh, good ol' Weird Al, hope he doesn't mind the lyric tweaks.
[-] 6 points by aahpat (1407) 8 years ago

Stop feeding the trolls with your notice of them.

Don't give them the legitimacy of a reasoned response. Like Fux News the trolls require rational reactions to them to make them look artificially legitimate.

When they spam the forum with provocative topics go into them ONLY to hit the "dislike" button on their posts. Count them down the same way that they are counting down legitimate topical posts that scare them.

Stop feeding the Trolls!!!!!

[-] 3 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Agree. I identify them, tell them so others will know. And move on.

Good Advice

[-] 2 points by ScrewyL (809) 8 years ago

No, you identify them and tell others in order to boost your self importance and agrandizement by amassing a sub-posse of loyal followers underneath you.

[-] 0 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Your one screwy!

[-] 1 points by ScrewyL (809) 8 years ago

You're getting good at this!

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Your on the list. We have you in the target.

[-] 1 points by OWSWhat (66) 8 years ago

retard

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

leo*tards*

[Removed]

[-] 3 points by VERUM (108) 8 years ago

I look at the Trolls as another form of lobbyist, attempting to maintain the status quo. As annoying as they are, I learn from them… they are another vehicle designed to discredit innovation. Thus far…they have only served to cement my resolve to change the system!

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Their like the lobbyist from Hell. Mostly what I learn from then is how many infinite ways another person can be shown disrespect.

But I understand, through experience, that many do not understand respect and thereby are incapable to show it. It's just as simple as saying thank you.

But we all know times when it would have been appropriate to hear those two words but instead there was a deafening silence. Some of us miss hearing that. It's not hard. But if you weren't raised that way your just ignorant of it.

[-] 3 points by sophiaomni (289) 8 years ago

I'm willing to do battle with ignorant reactionaries. The reason why I feel confident in our ability to defeat them in the battle place of ideas is that all they really have is insult and talking points. There's no real ideas coming from the right-wing today.

Let them troll and let the rest of us discuss the issues intelligently!

[-] 2 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Well, disagreements are perfectly fine. The insults however are not acceptable and really shouldn't be. It gives them the message that they are acceptable which is like releasing the hounds of hell. Once they make a fool of you, you've lost credibility regardless of whether it's right or not.

The ideas have to be held into the correct light or others will never see them

Thanks!

[-] 3 points by sophiaomni (289) 8 years ago

Point well taken, my friend!

[-] 2 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Not a problem.

Thanks!

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 8 years ago

Passive aggressive?

Since about a week ago, there's been so few trolls here, I'm a bit bored, really.

Admin/Moderators have done about all they can do to limit the activity of bot-trolls and group attacks. That is, without affecting the posting abilities of legitimate users of this forum.

If you want fully moderated places to post, I believe occupyR and themultitude.org are both such places affiliated with #ows.

I kinda like seeing if I can draw out some meaningful responses from anyone who bothers to put finger to keypad to post here.

The big mistake people make with noobs is to join in on the ad hominens and slander and obscenities. That's the giving-in time.

Much more interesting to be friendly and positive about meeting up with new people, and trying to find out why they bothered to come here in the first place.

Can't say I've had any truly negative times here at all. No stalkers neither.

Think positive, my friend. Good things happen to good people.

[-] 1 points by CrossingtheDivided (357) from Santa Ysabel, CA 8 years ago

"Good things happen to good people."

If only.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Well, it is encouraging. I will see. See my previous post as well. I hope this does turn around.

The antisemitism the other night here was ghastly. I was shocked by it. I hope to never see a repeat of that,

Thanks!

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 8 years ago

No probs. Anti-semitism is what you get from practiced performers.

Obfuscation is like a tick from the teacher.

It means you're on the right track.

If people had something meaningful to say, then they would say it.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Very true. Thanks!

[-] 2 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 8 years ago

And herein lies the rub in a democratic society. Everyone is free to post; everyone is free to respond; everyone is free to ignore. I can usually discern which ones are offering serious comment and which ones are attempting to be divisive. You are free to express your discontent. I am free to read their posts, not for good ideas about government, but as a way to understand the opponents' perspectives.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

We always can and will disagree, but we SHOULD do it with respect. No one has a right to insult me. No sir!

Just like you can have your own opinion, but not your own facts!

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 8 years ago

I agree, respect would be nice. But, what I said about perspectives applies to defining respect. There are people who really, really do not know how to be respectful. As to an insult, well, it's only an insult really if the person has a clue as to who you are; otherwise, the insulting party is usually talking to a mirror, basically (my opinion based on experience). One must accept the insult for it to truly be insulting, since it is just another's opinion.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Very good point. You helping me see this from another angle really. That's good. It does help me circle back to my previous thought that essentially if I begin internalizing all this too much, then I will have act to stop it. Also, really, because I personally have no power to stop the troll (other than voting which is very slight) then when I get my fill and feel enough insult, my only choice would be to leave.

Which NOW. I understand much more deeply. I have experience posting in many other forums for many years. So I do have those experiences on which to compare this current one. Generally, one thing or another saps my motivation, being banned doesn't help, but mostly I walk after a point.

I think interest wanes when it is nothing but a mirror. I talk really to myself. Which is fine for clarity. In real face to face discussions these discussions here "leak-over" no doubt. But, it's like the effort just no longer is rewarding. Just like politics. I follow it and I'm highly aware,and active but there's a point where enough is enough. Get away from. It's natural ability we have to keep ourselves out of harm's way. I'm just tougher than most. But as grow wiser I really lost patience for those who show no courtesy at all. The worse part is it may mimic their own real lives where the cursing, bad temper, and mad rages, only continue in living color reality.

Everything in our mind started as an idea.

Thanks Phanya2011, it's for posters like you that I hang out a little longer.

Good Luck!

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 8 years ago

Everything humans have created started with an idea. I encourage people to imagine what a world based on caring about each other rather than fearing each other would look like. If we cannot even imagine something, how can we ever hope to create it? I'd like to write a screenplay showing what the world looks like if all our dreams come true, so to speak. Wanna help?

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Nicely said. As long as we're thinking and dreaming we're alive. I have a great imagination nurtured through many expanding experiences. We are creates of habit but as we change this is, we live more harmony with our environment and then we live to our fullest.

Thanks!

[-] 2 points by Faithntruth (997) 8 years ago

Puzzlin, I have also found myself on the verge of quitting this site, but if the people who support this all quit, the trolls win. We can't let that happen because that is what really feeds the negative parts of our society. They bully us into apathy and disengagement, then run us into the ground. Standfast against their mobbing and recognize they are a collective of the weak and fearful...and I do expect to be getting a bunch of nasty and hatful responses, but I dont have to read them, respond to them, or validate their pitiful attempts to insult me.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Again, wow, ok now it becomes more and more apparent why I started this thread.

Faithntruth,

It doesn't happen that often, but I just agree with every single word you just wrote in your post. You see this does inspire me. It's when I feel that power of the idea that we are all acting as one in concert on the same track and we are just smoothly coasting into the destination, and it is the truth. Beautiful. Awe inspiring. This is the purpose underneath it all. It doesn't hide from us. It just asks that we pay attention and leave our emotional baggage at the door.

Thanks!

[-] 1 points by Faithntruth (997) 8 years ago

Thank you for reaching out before walking away! We do support each other, and positive feedback is one way to do it, so thanks for that, too!

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

You are so right. Don't worry I got your back too. You'll see me around from time to time.

Thanks!

[-] 1 points by OneVoice (153) 8 years ago

The fact that a Troll would come here to post shows how much strength this movement has. What web site is there where Trolls have an open forum? I look at any movement as a long term struggle comprised of many small battles. When the United States entered the Vietnam Conflict they fought a civilization that was already psychologically prepared for Wars that lasted at least 10 years in length. We were not mentally prepared for this duration of warfare. The OWS movement will achieve success and trolls are like speed bumps. They will always be there but the faster you hit a speed bump the smoother the ride. Just the potential of what this movement may accomplish has Washington DC buzzing. Successfully going up against the dysfunctional system of government that corporations have created will take time but is easily attainable. It's this fear and fact that feeds trolls.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

*WEEEEEE weeeeee WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!


This is fun, heeeee haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!

===========================================================================

=============================================================================



[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Trolling, Trolling, Trolling.

Heee Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Come here trolls!!!

I got troll food for you!!!!!

Come and get it!!!

COME GET SOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[-] 1 points by ScrewyL (809) 8 years ago

Oh yes, it is far easier to call someone a "Troll" than to undesrtand their disagreement and debate them. -- And when the masses arrive with their opinions which differ SIGNIFICANTLY from yours, it's quite likely you will percieve there to be an "Abundance of trolls!"

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Trolling, Trolling, Trolling

[-] 1 points by ScrewyL (809) 8 years ago

See? Wasn't that easy?

[-] 1 points by KnaveDave (357) 8 years ago

This is called free speech. How can you claim your own right to free speech and right to assemble while squawking that your detractors should be slenced?

--Knave Dave http://TheGreatRecession.info/blog

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

LINDSAY FROM GLEE PROJECT IN GLEE-HARMONY ''Anything Goes/Anything You Can Do''

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNYHG9bc4tc

[-] 1 points by azryal82 (2) 8 years ago

If any of you havent seen the youtube video: "Old Timey Strong Guy Tears Deck of Cards" you need to go check it out. The guy in the video does an outstanding job of voicing what the OWS movement is all about without even using his voice. A must see. Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDsTdaWtstE

[-] 1 points by f34r (7) 8 years ago

I got banned in the wallstreet chat channel here simply regarding my asking if anyone on the chat knew of any armed-rebel buzz...

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 8 years ago

"Hell is the impossibility of Reason" (these trolls are anarchists and nothing more.)

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Good way to put it!

Thanks!

[-] 1 points by UPonLocal (309) 8 years ago

Polite discourse......and that we all know and are able to identify false arguments.........both when we make one ourselves, and able to point it out in others with clear logic............just those two things...can save us all...assuming we have a useful electronic forum to conduct the peoples business..

If we can agree on just only that much to start...we can fix everything else..

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

You got it. This where true strength is derived and true freedom can be mastered. We start with ourselves. We come here for something good. Something positive. When others come to upset this balance we need to have each others back. The trolls really scatter when we hang together in action and the more consistent we are in marginalizing them they less threat they will impose.

It does help to have this discussion and I think it's another way we can derive strength and embolden our cause. I want to be clear that if I'm not here posting that I will always be somewhere fighting for this cause. I will never give up and the mighty trolls can't change what's true about this world, they can only ignore it.

I want to tell everyone this. If you believe in something strong enough, you will never stop fighting for it ever. I have been fighting for a long long time now. And fantastically, it becomes a way of life, I am positive that one reason I'm here on this planet right now is do exactly this. I won't make all the difference in the world but I will make some difference. In my pursuit of happiness, this gives my life some purpose.

Thanks!

[-] 1 points by morons123 (131) 8 years ago

we "trolls" are here because you delusional, clueless, lazy, under achieving, cry babies who want hand outs and blame everyone and everything for your problems except the person you see when you look in the mirror are holding up traffic, making a mess, forcing local police to waste time keeping an eye on you, attempting to keep hard working people like myself to get to work. you guys are a nuisance. just shut the fuck up already. all of you. it's enough. you made your point very clear...you have none.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

morons123 characterizes us all as:

"delusional, clueless, lazy, under achieving, cry babies who want hand outs and blame everyone and everything for your problems"

Did your mother teach you to have a gutter mouth?

Just how much respect do you have for anyone?

Did your parent(s) teach you about respect?

Have you heard of the word: Generalization?

These are the answers we need from you to learn anything from you.

Teach us teacher.

Justify why you don't have the discipline to control yourself or your words here today moron123.

[-] 0 points by morons123 (131) 8 years ago

have you heard of the word truth? all i did was post truth. "the truth hurts" huh? sorry i am not hear kissing you ass and telling you what a wonderful job you are doing.

[-] 1 points by StevenRoyal (490) from Dania Beach, FL 8 years ago

Couldn't agree more.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

White flag - dido (MMV V for vendetta)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRcgnipdKqw

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Thanks Matt! Very Inspiring!

We will never stop fighting for this world because we have love in our hearts. Great post for a kind of down thread but unfortunately necessary.

[-] 1 points by RockyJ (208) 8 years ago

After hanging out @ Anonymous web sites, forums & chats I've learned the hard way to develop a very THICK SKIN!

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Well true. But I think in this case since the trolls seem to get an upper hand here we have more challenges to rise successfully above it.

When a poster talks about sending a bullet my way and asks for my address. You would think that post would be vaporized quickly.

Well, no that post hung out with all the rest of them. I find those a bit distracting. Also, out there in the real world, thugs do exist. Some of these trolls aren't so innocent, they may actually mean to do real harm. They act out of fear and I recoil in fear. If I wanted to experience this kind of crap, I could turn on one of those cable prison shows. Those humans remind us that essentially we are animals and only discipline can make us humane and respectful.

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 8 years ago

there are actual troll paradises.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

This is true, your in one.

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 8 years ago

Nah it is more like troll limbo than troll paradise. http://tron-sector.com/ is an opposite of a troll paradise.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

IN HELL

I don't believe in the place, frankly, but if it did exist it would exclusively for them. Every bad act starts with a bad idea. They flourish in it.

[-] 1 points by Bomer (58) 8 years ago

They're called Muckrakers...

[-] 2 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

LoL

My god, my side almost split I laughed so hard. Trolls are Muckrakers. I don't know whether you were being serious or not.......but, just in case........Let us explore the definition of Muckraker first:

The term "muckraker" was used to refer in a general sense for a writer who investigates and publishes truthful reports to perform an auditing or watchdog function. In contemporary use, the term describes either a journalist who writes in the adversarial or alternative tradition or a non-journalist whose purpose in publication is to advocate reform and change.[citation needed] Investigative journalists view the muckrakers as early influences and a continuation of watchdog journalism.

So, I'm sure everyone else here knows how despicable trolls are, maybe you do too. We do put up with them because we have no choice in this cyberspace. Generally, if we met them on the street they'd be spitting in our face yelling as many insults as they muster up for us. Some have told us in their words here, that they would break our nose, and another said he would shoot bullets at us. If they did this on the street they should be arrested and personally I would not hesitate to call the police. I don't think this is any kind of journalism. It's thuggery, and murderous. You do realize people do get killed in a fit of temper don't you?

Do you really believe Trolls are muckrakers?

(For anyone reading here, this person probably won't answer back here, or argue this point unless this is another one with a heavy playing narrative in their head fueled by anger, madness, and a dangerous temperament. It's always degrading to all of us when they continue justify a horrible argument, or advocate stupendous behaviors.)

[-] 2 points by Bomer (58) 8 years ago

Okay maybe it was a bad choice of words. But they are here to stir up trouble IMO and that's what I meant.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

I agree totally Bomer. They come here bad intent, just to disrupt. They go against our kind nature of mutual respect because it's the most disruptive towards us.

I hope that my long response wasn't taken wrong. I really just took the opportunity to talk about the muckrakers. I very proud of what they did. They give us hope. We need more watchdogs really. I am lover of truth and that I can not deny.

Thanks!

[-] 1 points by theaveng (602) 8 years ago

Just ignore the trolls and their insults

[-] 2 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

I used to say that too. But one day you find what I did. It's like hanging around with a bunch of thugs. You realize it so yeah, you ignore. But finally you'll realize it's like a lie that gets repeated over and over. Human natural doesn't let us escape who we are, we start believing. Again realizing this helps defend against what your psychey is doing but as I've learned it eventually works it's way in.

And, also, remember that most trolls are high on emotion. Mostly anger, so as long as that anger flares they have strong motivation.

So, ultimately, ignoring them can helps just a little. You can do it but as you know others fall into the trap anyway. Rules are always broken, theirs and ours. So, in ignoring them, thinking this is good way to handle it, just falls way short.

They do damage, and unfortunately that is reality, like the air your breathing now.

[-] 1 points by Faithntruth (997) 8 years ago

Anger is often a way to cover fear. Many people allow fear to control them. They are afraid of change, afraid of the loss of power or position, afraid of isolation from the group they identify with, and/or afraid of differences. It is part of who they are down to their genes, and reinforced in their socialization. The way to overcome it is to allow them to become familiar with individuals. Be real, but be firm...point out the tactics they use instead of validating their arguments by becoming entwined. Of course there are those who just post pure garbage or such hate that they deserve no attention at all.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Good advice.

One of my tactics is to expose them and dependent on the severity of their post, I may ask a question about their behavior. But never do I respond to their idea they are trying to ram rod down my throat. I respond to polite questions and I don't shy away critical questions or criticisms either. It's all about style. The Troll style is rude and obnoxious.

[-] 0 points by theaveng (602) 8 years ago

Well then just post a simple message towards the trolls:

"Stop insulting me. You're not a child."

End.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Good Advice! That one would work.

Label them simply and quickly and move on.

Absolutely! Thanks!

[-] 1 points by americanboy (48) 8 years ago

Troll master.masterpiece

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 8 years ago

its true, and thats one more reason why we needed order and organization here in the form of sub forums, which i begged for, was promised, and which have never come.

[-] 0 points by eyeofthetiger (304) 8 years ago

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[-] 0 points by NonParticipant (151) 8 years ago

Protesting the Protesters. Occupying the Occupiers. Exercising the same rights as you.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

No, they exercising their compulsion to act immature and disrespectful. You do have an unalienable right to disrespect me. Your curse me, insult me, and belittle me. That's not a right and it's not free speech. It's a verbal assault.

DO you have empathy?

Do you enjoy being insulted & ridiculed in the course what should be intelligent meaningful respectful dialog?

[-] 0 points by Infowar (295) 8 years ago

You seem very intelligent, maybe the problem is an ideology? IDK if this is you but some people believe thing's that don't mesh with reality. Debate should continue in matters only between facts not ideology's but not in a censored manor. Education of the masses in matters of the scientific method, fact checking and fact vs opinion should be the start of our education.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Yes, we must decipher fact from fiction. Good point!

[-] 0 points by SpartacusTheSlave (60) from Las Vegas, NV 8 years ago

That's why most respectable forums charge a membership fee. It keeps the trolls out.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

A-ha, interesting, I didn't know about membership fees. It would be worth it to have more effective discussions and it does seem to make sense. It would bring in poster who are much more serious about higher level discussions.

Great Point!

[-] 0 points by SpartacusTheSlave (60) from Las Vegas, NV 8 years ago

I also would like to have a meaningful discussion. But any good idea quickly drowns in a cesspool of Troll urine. There are other ways to filter out the Trolls, without charging a fee. For example, to join my university alumni on-line forum, they first verify that you were actually a student. After that it's free.

Unlimited free speech is a good idea in theory, but now you are seeing the double edged result. A Troll is like an idiot who screams "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater, because he wants to fuck the dead girl who gets trampled by the stampede.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

This always seems to be the confusion about free speech. You can speak freely but what you say can not and should be inflicting direct harm to people. Your not so free that your freedom usurps everyone elses freedom.

And, what blows my mind in here, is these trolls curse us down and say exactly that, it's my right to free speech that I can say anything to another to hurt and inflict harm. Common sense informs most reasonable to realize we don't have a right yell down, belittle, curse, smear, slander, and outright harm others with "free" speech.

The only thing I can think of why they don't get it is their either immature, ignorant, or were raised in a barn. I understand there are people in our society who don't act rationally and are loose cannons, but it seems that their numbers may be increasing due to the sheer volume of these types in chat rooms and forums.

[-] 0 points by SpartacusTheSlave (60) from Las Vegas, NV 8 years ago

Most Trolls & Republicans are the children of mothers who drank booze and smoked cigarettes while they were pregnant. They are suffering from fetal brain damage. They really cannot comprehend logic.

[-] 0 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 8 years ago

OWS claimed to represent the 99%. But they were doing it wrong. So the REAL 99 are starting to show up here and speak for themselves.

Censorship: some animals are more equal than others.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

So showing Respect is censorship?

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 8 years ago

You can't claim your right to free speech unless you're willing to give it.

[-] 0 points by UPonLocal (309) 8 years ago

Troll Killer = Direct Democracy

Only registered, polite persons may participate.

[-] 2 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

UPonLocal,

That word polite is musical beauty to my ears.

It's all we ask, be polite, show some respect

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Yes, I do believe they have a problem with rules of behavior.

[-] 1 points by UPonLocal (309) 8 years ago

Polite discourse......and that we all know and are able to identify false arguments.........both when we make one ourselves, and able to point it out in others with clear logic............just those two things...can save us all...assuming we have a useful electronic forum to conduct the peoples business..

If we can agree on just only that much to start...we can fix everything else..

[-] 0 points by Joyce (375) 8 years ago

Legitimate contention and opposing view points are devalued to troll, why? The mirror is a tough vantage, yes?

[-] 0 points by JohnWatson (250) from Nürnberg, BY 8 years ago

I've written a post about a radical new economical theory, called debitism, which is easy to understand and quickly shows where the root of the global debt crisis lies.

And I have expected many trolls, saying that my post is totally wrong and that things are completely different, but until now there was only one and he was easy to shut up. So the post seems for me to be very sound.

So if you have problems with trolls send them to

http://occupywallst.org/forum/maybe-this-will-get-the-support-of-mainstream-medi/

and help to build a world for the 100%, even the trolls, in upgrading my post so it can be easily found in this mess here where people mostly try to find a solution for the global problems in our current system, which won't work if you understand the principles of debitism.

And please can anyone tell me how to make the text bold or italic?

[-] 5 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

My big problem with this has nothing to do with a clash of ideas. It's the flame throwing they do, name calling, belittling, smearing, outright lying, and then obvious fight picking.

Debate is great, and from your account you were able to appease one. I assume this was done through some sort of debate with you as the adult and the troll taking the part of child with rude mouth. That's all well there must have been a glimmer of rationality there to carry it off. Nice.

Anyway, I back away at the first name calling. I'm not a, let's see, a moron, an idiot, a stupid idiot, just stupid, jobless, lazy, hippie, marxist, communist and well let's stop there it does worse and everyone here knows where there goes. Everyone has experienced it here.

Thanks for your uptake on this issue. I will look at the link you posted.


==============================================================================

Good Luck wading through the trolls !!!

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

What I hate about them, is when they are backed in a logical corner they leave the thread and start the same argument elsewhere.

The anti-union propagandists are real good at it. Libertarians are good at it too.

[-] 2 points by CrossingtheDivided (357) from Santa Ysabel, CA 8 years ago

Word up, but I really think people need to start calling the American Rand-ian laissez-faire Capitalists, and Mises-school cultists, "So-called Libertarians." They've hijacked and perverted the meaning of libertarianism. Don't even get me started about Beck's lemmings. In fact, they're not real capitalists either.

There are some who habituate sites like this,who one simply cannot have a rational dialog with, they're too stuck in a certain mode of thinking. And believe me, I'm not only taking about "the Right Wing." There are plenty of hair-brained NPR-listening, middle class Obama 2012-bumber-sticker "Liberals" who are equally infuriatingly ill-informed and stuck in the ideological sandbox.

Best wishes to you all, I'm getting morose.

Goodnight!

[-] 0 points by ithink (761) from York, PA 8 years ago

People have so many different views, thoughts, and opinions. I think its great. Some people are so caught up in their views that they identify completely with them. Therefore, if your views are different, they take it as a personal attack. And they will defend themselves to the bloody figurative death.

[-] 3 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

My big problem with this has nothing to do with a clash of ideas.

  • It's the flame throwing they do, name calling, belittling, smearing, outright lying, and then obvious fight picking.*

Debate is great, but, I back away at the first name calling. I'm not a, let's see, a moron, an idiot, a stupid idiot, just stupid, jobless, lazy, hippie, marxist, and well let's stop there it does worse and everyone here knows where there goes. Everyone has experienced it here.

[-] 2 points by ithink (761) from York, PA 8 years ago

Agreed. I hate it too.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

It is not conducive to a good environment for clean debate.

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 8 years ago

And that's when you hit the "dislike" button. I rarely participated in any forums before OWS just because of all the vicious namecalling and bickering about inconsequential stuff. I think the anonymity of the internet has generated an honesty in people ... those who have been squelched for so long with "political correctness" ... because they can express what they know are unpopular beliefs and vent their frustration at having been bottled up for so long. They may even benefit from this venting. There is a lot of good information and innovative thinking coming out of this Movement which far overrides the fact that we experience some unpleasant discourse.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

That reminds of the old days when you could write down the torrent of ideas your having and vent them that way. That was the old method for those with some decent writing skills. The thought was it would be given to someone for their reading pleasure. The big difference, however, and I've done this several times, is you re-read what you wrote when in a charged cloud of emotions, you don't make much sense, to yourself. And then, I quickly tear it up throw it away and thank my lucky stars nobody had to read it but me.

So, in that light, I understand. This "venting" process. But I wonder how many, when calmed and more rational, will like what they said. Probably not many. Just being human, the worse our temperament gets, the more irrational we become. Murderers know how this works all too well.

And, again, personally, I don't want anyone venting on me. Nada. If they can be polite and rational, let's have a talk. But otherwise, nada.

The best advice most are given in those moments is to walk it off, calm down, collect yourself and then we'll talk. I don't think it's ever good to act out of anger. But, yes, we aren't perfect, but we should try to live up to some worthy ideals. The biggest one I can think of at the moment is: Respect.

[-] 2 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 8 years ago

True, and although I am not a religious person, the Bible defines respect perfectly: do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That does not require any word definitions, examples, or explanations. Of course, there is always the risk of meeting up with a sadist...but I don't think there are too many of them.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Phanya2011,

Bravo!!!

Did I ever need to hear that "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

...................................................EMPATHY

I not religious person either in the sense of the old time religions. But that aside, this treasure of empathy from our human evolution existed thousands of years before the bible was even thought. They borrowed it. Mankind knew this as a principle because it came from Reason!!! It was self evident. It never had to be propped by some supernatural God to ring true. It rang true because IT WAS.

It's true because if WE can't be reasonable then we get what we have NOW. Our history is just a sorted litany of man's inhumanity to man. Read it. We treated ourselves over and over throughout the whole of history as if we were RATS that carry filth and disease.

In our history you can read about how: We kill those who don't agree with us. We torture. We bomb. We shoot. We curse. We beliitle. We smear. We hide the truth. WE LIE

There's more as you all know to this. Just do this PLZ

Don't turn our backs to Reason ever again.

Use it as your guide. Thank you.

[-] -1 points by brettdecker (68) 8 years ago

Labels are a part of life,they identify you to other people. Now some people might label you differently (judging you by the small bit of info from a post) than you perceive yourself to be but that's part of communication.

But if you aren't honest enough with yourself to admit just really what you are (label wise) then your feelings will be hurt and you need to have the balls to defend yourself.

I see the problem with people whose ideology is left of center.
They don't like being called a "Leftist" or "Lib" or "Socialist" or "Marxist" or "Communist" even though what they believe in is shared by these groups.

They know that this is a big negative and as such they get defensive. They recoil and start launching return salvos of insults and other not so nice things. If they could just admit what everyone knows is a fact and stop trying to bullshit and obfuscate their way through a post a lot of problems would be resolved.

I agree " a moron, an idiot, a stupid idiot, just stupid," is not a good thing and I'm as guilty as are a lot of others for doing just that. And I try not use it unless some post strikes me as being appropriate.

I believe there are a lot of people on this Forum who want to try and change peoples minds and influence ideas as I am. Sometimes we get carried away maybe but that's because we feel just as strongly about our views as do you. I can't speak for everybody opposing OWS but I'm sure a lot of us are really just trying to get you folks to come to your senses and stop this insanity.

We don't agree with your assertions that you represent the same percentage of Americans that you believe you do. And we don't believe in your politics or demands and resent your self righteous indignation.

We believe you to be a small minority that happens to have the Leftist MSM and Obama along with a shit load of unsavory,anti-American groups supporting OWS.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

I'm proud to be a liberal. I got tired of feeling like there was something wrong with that. An attitude That was pushed on us during the Reagan years, as if Ron was such a great president that no one else was worth a thing.

Frankly? These days it should be the "right wing" walking down the street in shame, after the pay off of 8 long horrible years of the Bush administration, culminating in the Great Crash.

But they don't. they go on thinking it was Barney's fault, or maybe Carter. Anything but the truth.

BS!!!! Hang your heads for a while. The "right" really was responsible and they are still responsible for what's going on now.

This one gets me too. Get this through your head.

There is no such thing as "leftest MSM.

NO such thing. Know it and get over it. Stop trying to push it at anyone. Stop using the description, if you can.

Or is this an attempt to give credence to the kind of lies and shlock put out by FLAKESnews?

Shall I accept that? To do so would suggest the entire "right' is built on the same kind of lies.

Just admit that the "right" wing experiment is responsible for the state of the world today and maybe we can have a discussion.

I am a Liberal! Attempts to call me a commie will fail. Every time. I actually had to do duck and cover all through grade school. Attempts to pigeon hole me will fail. Every time.

How would you like to be pigeon holed? since obviously you must like that kind of thing.

[-] 0 points by brettdecker (68) 8 years ago

I'm reading a lot of hostility and bullshit. But I'm not surprised.

Media Matters? MSN? CNN? NBC? This would be a lot longer list,but these are all Leftists run and leaning media. You know this full well but what you're attempting to do is a new strategy of "redefining" or "relabeling" what is not Leftist media and that won't work.

You're even telling me to "Stop trying to push it at anyone. Stop using the description, if you can." Sorry,I'm not one of your Drones.

"The "right" really was responsible and they are still responsible for what's going on now." Another Liberal lie,as if Obama were never elected and the Dems weren't in control of the House and Senate from 2006 on till 2010.

Again,more propaganda,attempted redefining. Will you now tell me what to think about that?

To clarify,Ronaldus Magnus was one of the greatest Presidents this country has ever had. The fact that 31 yrs later the Left is still trying to again,"redefine" his presidency into a negative is proof.

You're a Liberal alright,the kind that only wants free speech when it agrees and fortifies your ideology and positions,hence the vitriol and blinding anger at Fox News and Conservative Talk Radio.

You are also a Commie and Socialist too. Again,redefining yourself because the alignment with these ideologies is a negative even though these ideologies are in alignment with what you seek to bully and force the US Govt. to accept.

So to recap. Be honest about what you are and there will be a lot less resentment when labels are applied.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

You see?

You just can't admit.

Hang your head "right winger".

Your boys did it.

You still can't reject the Limbaugh lie about "leftist" MSM.

So tell me. What label do you hang on yourself?

I'm curious.

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 8 years ago

But, every now and then, one of us experiences something that changes our views, and it is good to have places like this to come and find out what other ideas have sprouted since we quit paying attention. I dislike the vitriol and venom, but at least they aren't pretending to be anything else, and we need to be aware that it is out there.

[-] 1 points by ithink (761) from York, PA 8 years ago

This can be rather disturbing. But I have found that being aware of it, allows me to be aware of my own attachment to my ideas, thoughts and opinions. In this sense, it is an opportunity to learn something about yourself.

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 8 years ago

Absolutely. Each of us views the world from only one perspective, as it was influenced by parents, teachers, etc. This provides ideas on the same subject but from very different perspectives. This alone should help all of us realize how very difficult it is to come to common ground, not on what is wrong so much as how to fix what is wrong.

[-] -1 points by Glaucon (296) 8 years ago

==========================================================

Using bold in every post is a trollish cry for attention..

==========================================================

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Glaucon:

Define "trollish cry" please.

And by the way, do you understand the premise of this thread?

Please try to be specific, and site examples please.

Thanks!

[-] 0 points by Glaucon (296) 8 years ago

Using bold in every post like you do is very annoying for the readers. It is a scream for attention, and a type of spam. I consider this trollish behavior and irrespective of others.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Glaucon, been trolling lately?

[-] 0 points by Glaucon (296) 8 years ago

Exactly, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Am I being trollish? It depends how you define a troll and his actions. If you follow the common definition on this forum, then, yes, I am a troll because I propose a critical review of Occupy. A review that scares most protesters because it is based on hard to refute arguments.

You do realize the title of your post is plagued by a naughty pleonasm, don't you?

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Glaucon says ----"A review that scares most protesters because it is based on hard to refute arguments."

What the part about income inequality?

[-] 0 points by Glaucon (296) 8 years ago

You are saying that because there are problems in America, we should blindly accept any group that claims it will solve said problems? Why do you believe it is wrong to criticize and question Occupy with strong arguments? America became flawed because we did not question it and ask for transparency. Why make the same mistake with Occupy? You seem to think the movement is angelic without any flaws worth addressing.

[-] -2 points by hotrod02 (21) 8 years ago

When someone posts an opinion which is contrary to your own then it must be "trolls". Why not simply try to understand and consider some one else's opinion instead of mistakingly labeling it as a "troll"?

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

People who have opinions without curse words and insults are perfectly acceptable. They are not trolls.

Trolls show obvious disrespect, and to debate one is like telling them it's ok to call me a name and I won't even mention it but rather debate politely the subject they have interest and nevermind that I'm idiot moron doing a clown act.

[-] -3 points by slizzo (-96) 8 years ago

now you're asking occutards to face reality. dude, like, what kind of troll are you?!

;-)

[-] -2 points by robertthelarge (11) 8 years ago

Trolling paradise: this is true. It's Disneyworld, a Princess crusie, MSNBC, and various far left icons of stupidity all rolled into one. Logically impaired OWSers rolling around in their own stupidity, filth, envy, and greed.

It's so funny, you almost need an EMT by your side just in case you bust a gut laughing.

Thanks, OWS, for this ultimate entertainment experience!

Muchas gracias y de nada.

[-] 2 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

I used to laugh it off. At first, but, now I'm not laughing, I'm just worn out.

But your right, maybe I can get my mojo back. I just hope that it settles down.

Thanks!

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Rocky99,

You are a troll

[Removed]

[+] -4 points by slizzo (-96) 8 years ago

the real trolls are IN the movement.

the extreme leftist radicals advancing an end to capitalism and 9/11 truthers come to mind.

eliminate those cancers from ows and there won't be much to troll about.

[+] -4 points by ikki5 (61) 8 years ago

I laugh because you call those who insult this cause trolls when you insult those who are against it. In other words, you think anyone who is against this movement is a troll. Typical child thinking

[-] 3 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

You have this nasty habit of putting words in others mouths. Where did you learn this, first grade?

[-] 1 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 8 years ago

The opposition is helpful as it reveals what must be dealt with. It helps in diagnosing what must be overcome.

[+] -4 points by velveeta (230) 8 years ago

you guys lost me with the union connection. threatening to stop school bus service for kids? this is what unions do, its extortion. i thought you guys were for good stuff, not union thuggery

[-] 3 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

So, why don't you go back to an 80 hour work week for the same pay?

[-] -1 points by velveeta (230) 8 years ago

i quit my job a long time ago and have spent all my money. that leaves me with few choices, including joining the mafia (union), or corporate wage slave, entrepeneurial exploiter, ows beggar or bonnie and clyde outlaw, maybe you can think of more paradigms

[+] -4 points by Glaucon (296) 8 years ago

Trolling has been reduced greatly in the past week. Are you bothered by posts that disagree with your point of view? If that's the case, you should find a forum where everyone agrees and gives each other high fives. If none exist, you could create your own and ban any user that brands anti-Occupy opinions.

[-] 3 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

Here's my biggest problem with the trolls:

Trolls can be costly in several ways. A troll can disrupt the discussion on a newsgroup, disseminate bad advice, and damage the feeling of trust in the newsgroup community.

For me, my patience is about shot. I find I want to return fire on them. But, that is never my style, And. it's regrettful to engage like that. It just takes to much from me to give up my principle of respect.

Frankly, the debate is fine. I like that and the last thing I want is high fives and total agreement. Preaching to the choir is something which I never have interest in.

Anyway, thanks for the positive note. I was more and or less expecting to be trampled here with this post It's refreshing to have some positive notes to be played for once.

Thanks!

[-] 3 points by Glaucon (296) 8 years ago

There are definitely many users who have off-topic agendas like the anti-semites and those selling their websites. I noticed the anti-semites usually start their own posts, so I just ignore them. Eventually they sink to the bottom. As for spammers, their numbers have been reduced, but there are still a few lurking around. The only thing you can do is ignore their posts or down vote them.

I agree a higher level of moderation would be beneficial. Categories would also help.