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Forum Post: a 9/11 independent (re)investigation is a MUST OWS demand

Posted 5 years ago on Nov. 26, 2011, 2:44 p.m. EST by Barkode (105)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

my favorite documentary out there (a Nobel Prize Winner included) is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XRMrMdn0NQ

a MUST SEE!

273 Comments

273 Comments


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[-] 3 points by Ludog5678 (28) 5 years ago

If the government can't keep a office blowjob a secret how could they plan 9/11.

[-] 2 points by ContinuationofEarth (220) 5 years ago

Susan Lindauer was jailed for a year and silenced for five years under patriot act. That's how they kept people silent. Many witnesses died after they talk to public. Sibel Edmonds also have information. These are CIA and FBI whistleblowers. You should google these people.

[-] 3 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 5 years ago

[-] 1 points by ContinuationofEarth (220) 5 years ago

Glaucon is a mole.

[-] 2 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago

Susan Lindauer never denied shw was under the employ of a foreign government and attempted to use her incluence with her second cousin to change American policy. She was not tried under the Patriot Act, she was tried under everyday law prohibiting people from serving as unregistered agents of foreign governments.

She was never in the employ of the CIA. She was/is nuts.

Read http://www.seattleweekly.com/2006-02-15/news/from-spy-to-psychotic/

Susan Lindauer is nuts according to her coworkers, her neighbors, and several court appointed psychologists. In other words "by all accounts."

[-] 1 points by ContinuationofEarth (220) 5 years ago

That is the propaganda of the powerful. Truth is that it was a false flag operation as a response to geopolitical chess game. It is used to militarize the world.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago

Do you understand how crazy YOU'RE starting to sound ?

[-] 1 points by ContinuationofEarth (220) 5 years ago

It is a good explanation that such a thing might require support of executive branch and other powerful organizations. It is difficult not to see what is happening to these brave people who reveal the truth, difficult not to see the tactics used to silence, to harass, to discredit those who sacrifice their lives for the truth. Did you see the movie of the collapse of Building 7? There is definitely no question about it! It all fits once you realize history is full of such events which some groups gain control and pursue their agenda.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago

'Definitely no question about it!' Really? Did you read the Engineering documents I provided you? I don't expect you to understand them, but I do, and they make sense.

[-] 1 points by XXAnonymouSXX (455) 5 years ago

Did you bother to look at the science? They found unreacted super thermite particles in the dust from WTC. Here's a short video. Watch this please and comment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Pybn7DSn9E&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago

I AM an Engineer by profession. I reviewed all available materials and, and I'm perfectly satisfied with the "standard definition." Are you a scientist or engineer ?

[-] 1 points by XXAnonymouSXX (455) 5 years ago

Engineer but its extremely difficult to dispute the science my friend.

[-] -1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

9/11: EXPLOSIVE TESTIMONY EXCLUSIVE - AE911Truth.org Niels Harrit-Chemist.m4v

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lU-vu2JvZY

http://scientistsfor911truth.org/videos.html

AE911Truth's EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW! Chemist Niels Harrit - One of the scientists who found Explosive Thermite in the World Trade Center dust discusses Thermite, Nanothermite, Explosives and Incendiaries. This interview is some raw footage of one of the world class experts appearing in Architects and Engineer's upcoming hard hitting documentary "9/11: Explosive Evidence - Experts Speak Out" Read The Open Chemical Physics Journal, 2009, 2, 7-31 -- " Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe " by N.H. & al http://www.bentham.org/open/tocpj/articles/V002/7TOCPJ.pdf

Preview the New AE911Truth.org Documentary "9/11 Experts Speak Out": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIOC1J44RYw

Pre-Order the DVD Video September 11 2011: http://www.ae911truth.net/store/product_info.php?products_id=145

Buy the 9/11 Book "9/11 The Simple Facts": http://www.ae911truth.net/store/product_info.php?products_id=143

Follow AE911TRUTH around the Web: http://AE911truth.org/news-section/41-articles/544-eso-trailer.html http://www.911ExpertsSpeakOut.org http://www.AE911truth.org http://www.BuildingWhat.org http://www.Facebook.com/ae911truth http://www.Twitter.com/ae911truth http://www.Youtube.com/ae911truth http://www.Flickr.com/ae911truth http://www.AE911truth.net/store/ http://www.AE911truth.org/911investigator

AE911Truth.org World Trade Center Explosives September 11 2011 video September 11th 2011 attack September 11th 2011 news September 11th 2011 events September 11th 2011 attacks September 11 2011 videos attack attacks news memorial museum footage jumpers tribute song copenhagen incendiaries explosive Physicist 9/11 thermite thermate nanothermite steven jones AE911Truth wtc architect engineer high-rise demolition wtc7 Niels Harrit AE911Truth.org

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago

You're essentially spamming the same old misinformation. Everything you're mentioning has been successfully rebutted, at least in my own engineering mind. Have you even bothered to actually listen to the videos at http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-truth-about-911-exposed/ or are you afraid of listening to the opposing view ?

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

I probably know those resources better than you do. Its funny how you keep posting links to your list of silly sites and accuse me of posting new links to different resources. 9-11 Justice 18:20 - 4 years ago

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-649993991751648213

Available in dvd at jfkii.com, a brief but carefully presented and supported criminal indictment of George Bush, Dick Cheney, Richard Myers, and Condoleeza Rice for murder in the events of 9-11, presenting all the best evidence in a concise but powerful manner. It includes Larry Silverstein's admission that the explosives were used; and Norman Mineta's identification of Dick Cheney as the person who gave the order not to scramble jets, or fire any weapons in defense of the Pentagon.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago

I'm sorry but all your evidence is suspect and wholly insufficient to convince me or the majority of Americans that 100's of people knowingly and purposely committed the greatest crime in American history and managed to cover it up to boot. The "Official Story" as you call it, is much more plausible.

I'm more than a little saddened that folks in your "movement" have such low regard for their fellow man. It's as though you think all your friends and associates exhibit the utmost in character and morals, but that these other people all became evil beyond measure within months after they entered office. It's just ridiculous.

[-] 0 points by Glaucon (296) 5 years ago

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Explosives Found in World Trade Center Dust

Scientists Discover Both Residues And Unignited Fragments Of Nano-Engineered Thermitic Pyrotechnics In Debris From the Twin Towers

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/explosive_residues.html

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago

The paper you're referencing says, "The red material contains grains approximately 100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic."

The paper indicates some 100 nm sized chips of "thermitic material" were found. "Thermitic" simply means "heat producing" and is a long way from "thermite" or "thermate" which are very specific chemical formulations.

The "Nano-Engineered Thermitic" material found in the dust of the towers has a more common name: PAINT See http://tinyurl.com/m2k5xm

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/James_Randi

The "best" SME that article references is a post on the JREF forum? A site run by a man who made his living by sleight of hand, and outing the tricks of his competition.

I provided multiple links to the works of expert scientists and engineers. Perhaps this will make it clearer for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n8qzuvvoEU

  1. 911 irrelevant distraction from debt and slavery

  2. 911 cheaper than Chinese tyranny / tastes better

  3. 911 just some humans doing what they want 2 u

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Prosecute Shyam Sunder for high treason.

I read the NIST report. Have it right here in liberated (copyable) form. Most of the report refutes the official findings. It's good science summarized in a lie.

[-] 1 points by BraddDavis (10) 5 years ago

Lindauer was a reporter and never employed by the CIA. Edmonds was only employed as a contractor and did translation duties for less than 2 years before she got fired. Take a deep breath and relax; this is the real world not a Tom Cruse movie...

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Was Barry Seal a CIA employee?

Iran Contra CIA Drug Running Mena Arkansas Barry Seal 3 25 1994 CBS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiczqeT_RDg

This has everything to do with Bill and Hillary.

[-] -1 points by Glaucon (296) 5 years ago

[-] -2 points by Glaucon (296) 5 years ago

[-] 1 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 5 years ago

who says it a secret? we're speaking/writing about it. i speak about it with friends and family, or family and family, quite often

[-] 0 points by jaimes (86) 5 years ago

And the answer is,...........they didn't.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

That blowjob saved more Washington careers than you can imagine. People were snooping around Mena Arkansas asking questions about Barry Seal and military transports full of cocaine, then all of a sudden Slick gets a blowjob and America gets a snow job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTIXRy7ssbI

[-] 2 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Notice how Slick points his finger at the "US Attorneys" for covering up the Mena cocaine running operation. The same US Attorney and his brother Asa and Tim Hutchinson who "prosecuted Clinton" for lying about the blowjob. Masterful! We go from exposing the biggest drug running operation in US history and its connection to the previous and sitting presidents and get distracted by 24X7 coverage of the First Penis.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

why is this showing up as a recent reply?

[-] 1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Brainwashed cowards can't handle that, can you?

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

That post is a forgery. I was in bed asleep when it was made. It looks as though the server has been hacked.

[-] 3 points by DemandTheGoodLifeDotCom (3360) from New York, NY 5 years ago

After the 9/11 investigation, OWS should demand an investigation into Roswell and whether we actually landed on the moon.

[-] 2 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago

And all the jet contrails. I hear they're really plumes of mind-controlling drugs being dumped on all Americans to keep us in line. There weren't so many back in 1965. It seems they really started increasing in number under Nixon.

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 5 years ago

I want an investigation on the Greys, Lazar, and the Reptilians.

[-] 1 points by Confusedoldguy (260) 5 years ago

Don't forget the JFK assassination. And Lincoln! What about Lincoln?

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

It's been asserted that there are files connected to the Lincoln assassination which are STILL sealed, supposedly "for reasons of national security".

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 5 years ago

Reptilians? Let me tell you this: THE PTB conduct themselves like cold blooded reptiles might. Perhaps this is the foundation for this fairly common belief.

[-] -3 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

They have medications that can help you with your problem.

[-] 2 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 5 years ago

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/911_was_an_inside_Job this forum is not the place to make the point or make a stand. they have requested not to post this kind of material here. bring it to the wiki, we have room.

Thanks!

[-] 2 points by ContinuationofEarth (220) 5 years ago

There is a CIA whistle blower who witnessed it all along. She was jailed for a year and kept silent for five years. This video is revealing what is 9/11.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G43zl4fzDQg

[-] 2 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 5 years ago

Truthers have to be the lamest conspiracy theorists of them all. If you're going to pollute your mind with such trash, a least be creative and try to defend the case for Reptilian Overlords.

[-] -1 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

only a severely stupid, ignorant, uneducated, brainwashed punk can believe the official version of 9/11. I see that on the planet you live the water boils at 50 centigrade, your Iraq is full of WMD, and Bush, Cheney, Rummy and the rest of the sluts are always right ..

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (5842) 5 years ago

Would like to add that Bush and Cheney have a history of substance abuse, with a total of five DUIs. Cheney shoots friend in face with gun. They should have gone to Betty Ford, not the White House.

[-] 1 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

at least Cheney has some (evil) brain. His boss, Mr. "nucular", on the other hand ..

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 5 years ago

i believe that we all make order in our minds. and those that can't rap their head around the idea that the world's most powerful empire got bested by a sheep herder (no offence just making a point), concoct order out of the absurd. no?

[-] 2 points by seeker (242) 5 years ago

It was a demand back in the day before the movement was hijacked. Any one that believes the official crap has not investigated it or spouts the official debunkers to save their careers...There are many brave souls risking their careers for the sake of conscience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW6mJOqRDI4

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

The FEMA report does discuss molten steel.

http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_apc.pdf

See also, molten concrete:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RhdBxEe_6M

[-] 2 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 5 years ago

Some of the principal data that must be explained:

(1) The Twin Towers were destroyed faster than physics can explain by a free fall speed "collapse."

(2) They underwent mid-air pulverization and were turned to dust before they hit the ground.

(3) The protective bathtub was not significantly damaged by the destruction of the Twin Towers.

(4) The rail lines, the tunnels and most of the rail cars had only light damage, if any.

(5) The WTC underground mall survived well, witnessed by Warner Bros. Road Runner and friends. There were reports that "The Gap" was looted.

(6) The seismic impact was minimal, far too small based on a comparison with the Kingdome controlled demolition.

(7) The Twin Towers were destroyed from the top down, not bottom up.

(8) The demolition of WTC7 was whisper quiet and the seismic signal was not significantly greater than background noise.

(9) The upper 80 percent, approximately, of each tower was turned into fine dust and did not crash to the earth.

(10) The upper 90 percent, approximately, of the inside of WTC7 was turned into fine dust and did not crash to the earth.

(11) One file cabinet with folder dividers survived. No toilets survived or even recognizable portions of one.

(12) Windows of nearby buildings had circular and other odd-shaped holes in them.

(13) In addition to the odd window damage, the marble facade was completely missing from around WFC1 and WFC2 entry, with no other apparent structural damage.

(14) Fuzzballs, evidence that the dust continued to break down and become finer and finer.

(15) Truckloads of dirt were hauled in and hauled out of the WTC site, a pattern that continued for years.

(16) Fuming of the dirt pile. Fuming decreased when watered, contrary to fumes caused by fire or heat.

(17) Fuzzyblobs, a hazy cloud that appeared to be around material being destroyed.

(17) The Swiss-Cheese appearance of steel beams and glass. Evidence of molecular dissociation and transmutation, as demonstrated by the near-instant rusting of affected steel.

(18) Weird fires. The appearance of fire, but without evidence of heating.

(19) Lack of high heat. Witnesses reported that the initial dust cloud felt cooler than ambient temperatures. No evidence of burned bodies.

(20) Columns were curled around a vertical axis like rolled-up carpets, where overloaded buckled beams should be bent around the horizontal axis.

(21) Office paper was densely spread throughout lower Manhattan, unburned, often along side cars that appeared to be burning.

(22) Vertical round holes were cut into buildings 4, 5 and 6, and into Liberty street in front of Bankers Trust, and into Vesey Street in front of WTC6, plus a cylindrical arc was cut into Bankers Trust.

(23) All planes except top secret missions were ordered down until 10:31 a.m. (when only military flights were allowed to resume), after both towers were destroyed, and only two minutes (120 seconds) after WTC 1 had been destroyed.

(24) Approximately 1,400 motor vehicles were towed away, toasted in strange ways, during the destruction of the Twin Towers.

(25) The order and method of destruction of each tower minimized damage to the bathtub and adjacent buildings.

(26) More damage was done to the bathtub by earth-moving equipment during the clean-up process than from the destruction of more than a million tons of buildings above it.

(27) Twin Tower control without damaging neighboring buildings, in fact all seriously damaged and destroyed buildings had a WTC prefix.

(28) The north wing of WTC 4 was left standing, neatly sliced from the main body which virtually disappeared.

(29) For more than seven years, regions in the ground under where the main body of WTC4 stood have continued to fume.

(30) The WTC1 and WTC2 rubble pile was far too small to account for the total mass of the buildings.

(31) The WTC7 rubble pile was too small for the total mass of the building and consisted of a lot of mud.

(32) Eyewitness testimony about toasted cars, instant disappearance of people by "unexplained" waves, a plane turning into a mid-air fireball, electrical power cut off moments before WTC 2 destruction, and the sound of explosions.

(33) Eyewitness testimony of Scott-pack explosions in fire trucks and fire trucks exploding that were parked near the WTC.

(34) There were many flipped cars in the neighborhood of the WTC complex near trees with full foliage.

(35) Magnetometer readings in Alaska recorded abrupt shifts in the earth's magnetic field with each of the events at the WTC on 9/11.

(36) Hurricane Erin, located just off Long Island on 9/11/01, went virtually unreported in the days leading up to 9/11, including omission of this Hurricane on the morning weather map, even though that portion of the Atlantic Ocean was shown on the map.

http://www.DrJudyWood.com

[-] 1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

"Her documentation is of high quality.

It isn't worth your time to even bother with it, but you seem to have ample time to throw highly generalized personal attacks.

That is all for me, you are free to have your own opinions."

Her documents are nothing without original sources, most of which contradict her alchemical balderdash.

[-] 0 points by badconduct (550) 5 years ago

He says "The pancake theory..."

But that has already been debunked. This has been explained countless times. The debris spread for 2 miles or something. The WTC towers aren't that sturdy, they couldn't handle the weakening steel beams. There was no concrete core.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMZ-nkYr46w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-6IeADGa24

There's no explosives. They did forensic tests, and found no traces of explosives. If there were explosives found, it would have been mainstream news, they couldn't cover it up.

There's no cover up. This has been all over mainstream media, almost 90% of the videos and quotes are taken from mainstream media. There was no molten metal, there was no thermite bombs.

[-] 0 points by badconduct (550) 5 years ago

(1) People hijacked planes. No one suspected it.

(2) They made no demands and flew the planes off course. No one suspected it.

(3) They crashed into buildings. No one suspected it.

(4) It's been 10 years now, and people still have trouble believing it happened.

(5) There will never be answers for those questions, because:

A. Everyone who was directly involved or witnessed the accident first hand died on 9/11/2011.

B. They took the site apart before it was clearly investigated for technical answers. They don't know truly what caused the building to collapse, but my guess will be age. Dry and Brittle.

The only thing left is the money trail. I think my first idea with 9/11 was that the people on the top knew about it, but didn't believe it would happen. That's the impression I get from GWB's face after they told him about it. They thought it wouldn't get through security, and they didn't want to make a big scene about it because it would look really bad if the USA was panicking about a handful of foreigners who planned something ridiculous.

Anyone who was anyone was warned, the CIA and FBI didn't cooperate and an intelligence failure led to 9/11. The result? Over cautious.

[-] 1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

"They don't know truly what caused the building to collapse, but my guess will be age. Dry and Brittle."

I hope you were laughing when you typed that. Dry brittle steel and concrete. Now THAT is a first! It's almost as whacked out as:

"The important questions," says Biederman, "are how much sulfur do you need, and where did it come from? The answer could be as simple--and this is scary- as acid rain."

http://www.wpi.edu/News/Transformations/2002Spring/steel.html

I guess looking at direct evidence that the mass murder of 3000 people televised live was committed by someone other than the accused causes one to concoct such evasive nonsense. The evidence clearly points to thermate.

http://world911truth.org/steven-jones-on-nanothermite/

[-] 0 points by badconduct (550) 5 years ago

But... what's your point? A few people who graduated from college and University are getting paid to be in a movie talking about some strange oddities from the World Trade Centre collapsing.

Therefore: It's a giant conspiracy, involving shadow governments, plots to take over the world, religious symbolism, and all sorts of other random ideas people post on the internet? There's a official explanation as to why the buildings collapsed. The people who wrote the report, and engineers, fire fighters and whomever else that contributed, are all part of the conspiracy?

Why did they even bother with the whole "hijacked the air liners" story if they could simply bring the building down with explosives? Why wouldn't they just say "terrorists put explosives at the bass of the building in trucks and blew it up?"

It doesn't make sense, there's no logic to that. There's only two types of people who believe in this... you're either a Type 1, which is taking advantage of the whole conspiracy in order to make money, or a Type 2, which is just wasting his/her time reading all this crap, watching all these movies and visiting all these websites with absolutely no gain.

[-] 1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

It's a question of who had access. The Arab American perspective: http://m.youtube.com/?rdm=4oox72k27&reload=3#/watch?v=wWA-TXJmeQo

[-] 0 points by badconduct (550) 5 years ago

Frank Zappa?

Access to what? The cockpit of the air plane?

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Where's the original with Tina Turner on backing vocals?

[-] 1 points by badconduct (550) 5 years ago

Not sure. That was years before my time.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

I'm not 100% sure it was Tina, but I do recall reading it somewhere. This is the original:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfUB4Wv5ooI I'm the slime ~ Zappa

I am gross and perverted

Im obsessed n deranged

I have existed for years

But very little had changed

I am the tool of the government

And industry too

For I am destined to rule

And regulate you

I may be vile and pernicious

But you can't look away

I make you think Im delicious

With the stuff that I say

I am the best you can get

Have you guessed me yet?

I am the slime oozin out

From your tv set

You will obey me while I lead you

And eat the garbage that I feed you

Until the day that we don't need you

Don't got for help...no one will heed you

Your mind is totally controlled

It has been stuffed into my mold

And you will do as you are told

Until the rights to you are sold

That's right, folks..

Don't touch that dial

Well, I am the slime from your video

Oozin along on your livinroom floor

I am the slime from your video

Cant stop the slime, people, lookit me go

[-] 0 points by badconduct (550) 5 years ago

Why don't you just watch all the debunk movies out there? It's all explained away, very clearly.

The Nanothermite test has no time, location or anyway of measuring it's accuracy or retesting. It's not valid science. Sorry, bro. Terrorists did it.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Yes, terrorists did it. Care to provide a link to a single "debunk movie" worth my time?

[-] 0 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago
[-] 1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBb00PQR1zo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO1ps1mzU8o&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3Lhq02g3UU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eyatDlxebQ&feature=related

This is not a fuel vapor combustion overpressure this man is describing. Such an event simply doesn't produce the brisance required to produce the damage he recounts witnessing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR3XCHRnae0

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago

More anecdotal reports. If you insist that 9/11 MUST be fully understandable by people lacking engineering skills, then I suppose you'll HAVE to come up with something.

[-] 1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Well, my father was a senior structural engineer for the US DoT for over 40 years, and he agrees that the WTC was destroyed by controlled demolition.

See also: http://ae911truth.org

You don't have to be an engineer to provide a sufficiently reliable eyewitness account of an event. First you people claim there is no evidence of explosions, then you claim the evidence for explosions is unreliable. You then return to the original position that there is no evidence of explosions. That's called lying (or stupidity, or insanity).

[-] 0 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago

I have done nothing of the sort. Maybe by "you" you meant the "collection of doubters"

[-] 1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

The sources you provide do just that. I am very familiar with the tactics.

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2011/05/twenty-five-rules-of-disinformation.html

[-] 0 points by badconduct (550) 5 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbY5_qtz83M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-4MEsTH2B8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1wQ2BJsgx0

This one is pretty common: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842

Here's a good one, very scientific: http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm

Planes hit the buildings, and they fell. I know, it's hard to believe. Doesn't happen every day. But there were no explosives.

"The belief that a handful of unexplained anomalies can undermine a well-established theory lies at the heart of all conspiratorial thinking...and is easily refuted by noting that beliefs and theories are not built on single facts alone, but on a convergence of evidence from multiple lines of inquiry. All of the “evidence” for a 9/11 conspiracy falls under the rubric of this fallacy. --Michael Shermer"

PCT, Paranoid Conspiracy Theorist. Here's a good report from Psychology Today: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-narcissus-in-all-us/200809/paranoia-911-and-the-roots-conspiracy-theories

Maybe you'll understand better.

[-] 1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

I just picked this at random from your links.

http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm

First of all, most people in the Truth Movement do NOT claim the Twin Towers fell at free fall rates. The first few seconds of the WTC 7 demolition were at free fall acceleration, as NIST confirmed. In addition, there are videos on this page showing the demolition front moving faster than the free-falling steel members previously ejected explosively:

http://www.11-septembre.com/web/terrorize.dk/911/wtc2dem13/index.html

The ploy of both debunking911 and Popular Mechanics is to make claims about what we assert, generalize those claims to represent all of us, and then give refutations to the straw men they create.

It's not difficult at all to show them wrong, point by point. The difficult part is that they are wrong on so many points that it becomes too time consuming to address them all.

That Psychology Today article is all good and well, but I have actually been subjected to clinical tests showing that I am not paranoid.

[-] 0 points by badconduct (550) 5 years ago

They used to believe it was free fall, until it was debunked.

It's not paranoia, it's the top quote from Michael Shermer. Stringing together a bunch of unrelated questions trying to come up with one solid answer. There's no evidence of any bombs being used on 9/11.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1

There's tons of evidence that planes hit that day. It's on camera.

If that article is a ploy (not just scientists debunking 9/11), than it just goes to show that you are a little paranoid. Everything that disagrees with your version must be part of the bigger cover up. Now you claim that every 9.11 truther has a different opinion, which makes the overall argument weaker. There is no one, solid, undeniable piece of evidence that it was an "inside job", or that bombs or explosives were used.

If the media found out there was solid evidence that there was explosives used, it would be all over the news. They reported all sorts of half-truths and garbage that day. It just shows; the internet is just not that good of a resource at the end of the day, it can take one poorly written blog and turn into a credible resource for numerous scientific papers.

There's a lot of coincidences and unanswered questions, that's absolutely true. But planes smashed into the buildings, and fire took them down. They collapsed on their own weight. There's no reason for the CIA to bomb buildings either. There might be some type of "Fast and Furious" money relationship because they were trying to track them, or see what they were up to. It's even possible there were people who knew it was coming, and made financial decisions knowing that the there was a good chance it was going to be pulled off.

But George Bush wouldn't want to be responsible for the "Decline of the Western Empire".

[-] 1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

There are numerous direct witness accounts of explosions in the buildings. That is evidence. There's plenty of other evidence, such as the pulverized concrete and apparently pulverized floor decking.

What I find ironic are the claims that demolishing the WTC would have required tons and tons of explosives, but modest fires and limited structural damage could do it.

[-] 0 points by badconduct (550) 5 years ago

Yes, a lot of things in the building exploded. None of them were bombs.

The best explanation I heard for people wondering what the loud "BOOMS" were the sounds of people hitting the ground after they jumped off the building. Yeah, think about that. That's a really depressing thought.

Most of the people who said they heard explosives had their quotes taken out of context as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tacYjsS-g6k You can see it buckle.

If it required "Tons and Tons" of explosives, there would have been a massive explosion. There wasn't, just weak steel beams fell in on themselves.

There was NO EXPLOSIVES. There is NO EVIDENCE. A plane hit it!

[-] 2 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Google for WTC witness explosions.

[-] 1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Richard Humenn (P.E.E.WTC Chief Electrical Design Engineer)9/11 Explosive Evidence-Experts speak out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnCp7A-8TVI

Mr. Humenn gives us quite a unique perspective inside the elevator shafts in the twin towers and how access to the core columns could have been gained.

This interview is some raw footage of one of the world class experts appearing in architects and engineer's upcoming hard hitting documentary "9/11:Explosive Evidence - Experts speak out"

[-] 1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Search for experts speak out chief electrical WTC. I would link but my Droid makes it difficult.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Judy Wood is an embarrassment to the Truth Movement. I didn't notice the link until now, or I would have said something sooner. Her space beam nonsense dose nothing but discredit us. See ae911truth.org for reliable info.

[-] 2 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 5 years ago

Judy D. Wood is a former professor of mechanical engineering with research interests in experimental stress analysis, structural mechanics, optical methods, deformation analysis, and the materials characterization of biomaterials and composite materials. She is a member of the Society for Experimental Mechanics (SEM), co-founded SEM’s Biological Systems and Materials Division, and has served on the SEM Composite Materials Technical Division.

Dr. Wood received her

B.S. (Civil Engineering, 1981) (Structural Engineering), M.S. (Engineering Mechanics (Applied Physics), 1983), and Ph.D. (Materials Engineering Science, 1992) from the Department of Engineering Science and Mechanics at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University in Blacksburg, Virginia.

Judy Wood has alot to offer. I know of ae911truth.org and have a great deal of admiration for Richard Gage.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

I have to wonder how she got her credentials. This interview says it all. The woman is either lying, insane, or stupid. I go with the first.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-558096240694803017

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 5 years ago

Will watch later, can't now.

Read on her site or a linked site that there are Directed Energy Engineering Associations - so I searched and sure enough even found solicitations for Directed Energy Interns.

question: Can you guess who was hiring ? answer: DOD

Instead of branding a person, why not evaluate the data which is presented. You don't have to accept it but keep an open mind. Remember the last stand in debate is personal attack.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

I have examined what she has presented. That's why I made that statement. I really don't know what her goal is, but her nonsense is a threat to the credibility of the Truth Movement.

As for DEWs. I know they exist, and have existed for decades.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR_pjzW98dM

But these cannot account for the demolition of the WTC. I've been looking into 9/11 for several years now. I have a pretty good idea of which ideas are complete BS and disinformation, and which are tangible and sustainable.

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 5 years ago

She makes sense to me. I haven't evaluated everything but I plan on reading "Where Did the Towers Go."

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

I read graduate level physics for sport. She is wrong.

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 5 years ago

You are not addressing anything specific.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

There is nothing to address. She offers no mechanism beyond DEWs "dustified" the WTC. I can't refute an idea that is so incoherent as to have no substance. She offers no calculations, no experimental evidence, no theoretical argument, nothing.

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 5 years ago

The list of 35 items of physical data that must be explained is from her website.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

"Her documentation is of high quality.

It isn't worth your time to even bother with it, but you seem to have ample time to throw highly generalized personal attacks.

That is all for me, you are free to have your own opinions."

There are some ideas which are not worthy of my attention. There's too much good information coherently presented, for me to waste my time on her nutty ideas.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

It's a bunch of claims, many of which are dubious or simply wrong. It's not worth my time and effort to go through them. "transmutation"?

As for the clouds being cold. Quite the opposite is reported:

"...but the wave was intense. It was hot..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxjwLrz_MDc

There's good reason to believe there were superheated veins of air in these flows. For example, one EMT reported cars exploding all around her as she ran from the collapse of WTC2.

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 5 years ago

It is all documented. Cheers !

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

I just gave you contrary evidence.

She can "document" it all she wants. That doesn't make it so. It is not all attested to by reliable sources.

It's true that the concrete - and apparently the trough decking - was pulverized into a fine powder, but the steel framing was there after the demolition of the buildings. There's ample photographic evidence supporting that.

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 5 years ago

Her documentation is of high quality.

It isn't worth your time to even bother with it, but you seem to have ample time to throw highly generalized personal attacks.

That is all for me, you are free to have your own opinions.

[-] 0 points by Nevada1 (5842) 5 years ago

Hi PublicCurrency, Thank you for your efforts here. Best Regards, Nevada

[-] 0 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

It is one thing to discuss the physics, how exactly the towers went down the way they did and so on. But to suggest that the American governent was behind is something completey different and completely ridiculous.

IF there were explosives planted in the towers, why would the Bush-gov be behind planting them there? See, wouldn´t it be much more likely that the terrorists had placed them there somehow to make sure the towers collapsed?

How the hell could they keep a plan of this size with so many people and different preparations/actions involved secret?! It´s not possible.

Who were the people that flew the planes and died if they were not individuals of a certain Islamic faith who wanted to become martyrs? Got any alternative? For obvious reasons they couldn´t pay anyone to do it and for other obvious reasons no martyr-wannabe would cooperate with the American government AGAINST their own kind.

I become the devils advocate here but the idea that 9/11 was planned by the American government is just ridiculous.

[-] -3 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 5 years ago

You're a very intelligent guy Fluke. Don't waste your critical thinking by debunking what has already been debunked ten times over.

[-] 0 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

good job, keep it up.

[-] 3 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 5 years ago

thank you, I have book marked the youtube link.

In the ten years since 9/11, America has been turned into a third world police state with a large underclass, a rapidly declining middle class, and a plutocracy that has broken its economic, political and emotional ties with America.

America's traitorous political establishment has abandoned ship. They are treating America like a dump. Instead of building new bridges and creating jobs at home, they are shipping jobs overseas and forcing millions of Americans to beg for a piece of meat.

Even the body parts of American war heroes are discarded in landfill sites. That act is symbolic of the fact that the new world order traitors in Washington think of the American people as garbage and dirt.

http://disquietreservations.blogspot.com/2011/11/9-ways-hijacked-federal-government-is.html

[-] 2 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

9 Ways”, eh? It reminds me that Dante’s Inferno has 9 circles ..

Anyways, ways 8 and 9 are the least funny; it’s time to wake fucken up!

[-] 2 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 5 years ago

i agree, lets make a wiki page on this...?

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/911_was_an_inside_Job

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 5 years ago

Heart-wrenching.

Not once did I see anything resembling grief on the face of the prez.

[-] 2 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 5 years ago

The Senate is set to vote on a bill next week that would define the whole of the United States as a “battlefield” and allow the U.S. Military to arrest American citizens in their own back yard without charge or trial.

“The Senate is going to vote on whether Congress will give this president—and every future president — the power to order the military to pick up and imprison without charge or trial civilians anywhere in the world. The power is so broad that even U.S. citizens could be swept up by the military and the military could be used far from any battlefield, even within the United States itself,” writes Chris Anders of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office.

Under the ‘worldwide indefinite detention without charge or trial’ provision of S.1867, the National Defense Authorization Act bill, which is set to be up for a vote on the Senate floor Monday, the legislation will “basically say in law for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield,” said Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), who supports the bill.

The bill was drafted in secret by Senators Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.), before being passed in a closed-door committee meeting without any kind of hearing. The language appears in sections 1031 and 1032 of the NDAA bill.

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

9/11 was never investigated. Ever hear of Kevin Ryan?

[-] 1 points by ContinuationofEarth (220) 5 years ago

Truth is out there and revealed by many heros, dead or alive. No need for an investigation anymore to know the truth. It is known. Here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxJTwbHdH6k

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago

Read http://www.seattleweekly.com/2006-02-15/news/from-spy-to-psychotic/

Susan Lindauer is nuts according to her coworkers, her neighbors, and several court appointed psychologists. In other words "by all accounts."

[-] 1 points by ContinuationofEarth (220) 5 years ago

How it works is that, out of fear and social pressures people comply with the ruthless, dangerous and powerful. Sociopaths win always all the time by accusing people of being "mentally unstable".

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago

So if a crazy person says something crazy, I know they MUST be speaking the truth eh? Or is that only the case when I happen to agree with whatever craziness they're spouting?

[-] 1 points by ContinuationofEarth (220) 5 years ago

Truth is out there and revealed by many heros, dead or alive. No need for an investigation anymore to know the truth. It is known. Here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxJTwbHdH6k

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

I don't fully trust her. She may still be a Company girl.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago

There isn't even any evidence she WAS a Company girl in the first place.

Read http://www.seattleweekly.com/2006-02-15/news/from-spy-to-psychotic/

Susan Lindauer is nuts according to her coworkers, her neighbors, and several court appointed psychologists. In other words "by all accounts."

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

9/11 Mossad Operation: Director Of US ARMY War College

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXH_7nZzduA

"I'm sorry but all your evidence is suspect and wholly insufficient to convince me or the majority of Americans that 100's of people knowingly and purposely committed the greatest crime in American history and managed to cover it up to boot. The "Official Story" as you call it, is much more plausible."

The vast majority of people do actually examine the evidence are persuaded to support our cause. Ever wonder why people don't go the other way? Other than a few politicians who recant under pressure, that is. There haven't been many polls on this lately, but previous poll showed a large and growing number do support an new (aka real) investigation.

"I'm more than a little saddened that folks in your "movement" have such low regard for their fellow man. It's as though you think all your friends and associates exhibit the utmost in character and morals, but that these other people all became evil beyond measure within months after they entered office. It's just ridiculous."

OK, so my regard for humanity is low because I believe a handful of hyper-rich evil schmucks had the resources to perpetrate 9/11 and the power to cover it up. Where as your lofty assessment asserts that a vast network of crazed suicidal religious zealots operates in as meany as 60 countries, continually evading US Intelligence and making the strongest, most technically advanced military force ever assembled look less competent than Wile E. Coyote. They have sleeper cells, clandestine training camps, internet sites, periodicals, training materials, etc., etc.

That's nuts!

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago

"Your lofty assessment asserts that a vast network of crazed suicidal religious zealots operates in as many as 60 countries, continually evading US Intelligence and making the strongest, most technically advanced military force ever assembled look less competent than Wile E. Coyote. They have sleeper cells, clandestine training camps, internet sites, periodicals, training materials, etc., etc."

It's not all that hard to defeat the world's 'most technically advanced military force.' It's called Asymmetric Warfare, and we taught the world how it's done when we defeated the British. We're doing a bit better than the Brit's did thanks in part to our technology, but it's still a very difficult thing to defeat an asymmetric enemy.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

FAA Managers Destroyed 9/11 Tape Recording Contained Accounts of Communications With Hijacked Planes

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A6632-2004May6

Why all the destruction of evidence if no one had something to hide?

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago

Ummm... because they screwed up ? That's the common reason why people destroy such things; they simply don't want others to know how badly they screwed up. The FAA was found by the commission report to have made a number of errors in how they handled the entire 9/11 event. I'm not surprised at all that they tried to cover up their screw ups. That's how bureaucrats are.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Actually what ATC did that day was miraculous. If NORAD wasn't on stand-down orders there would never have been a single plane hit a building.

http://jalopnik.com/5838772/man-who-grounded-4000-planes-on-911-was-on-first-day-of-his-job

What's the other guys name Monte Belger?

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago

I don't think it would have mattered. I don't think we were prepared to shoot down airliners even if we had the planes up and hot. Heck, we wouldn't even shoot down a plane in the no-fly zone over Iraq without a valid IFF ping and significant deviation from filed flight plans. I can't imagine who was going to order the downing of an American passenger jet over American airspace.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Bush did, far as I can tell. Just before UAL 93 exploded. One eyewitness described that as a spherical ball of fire.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago

I don't buy it. I've seen both sides of the argument, and the "Standard Story" makes more sense to me.

There were people who received phone calls from 93 describing what was going on. Granted they could be "plants" but add them to your FAA folks, the folks who planted thermite, the folks who shot a missile at the pentagon, and everyone else, and you've got such a huge number of people in the "inside" of your conspiracy there's just no way it could be kept quiet.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

I can spoof caller ID and voice morph for a few dollars. If I had trillions, just think what I could do. The call from Ed Felt is different. It may have been real.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

That would be standard fare to discredit a person. I simply remain cautious. She hasn't added any new information that I find useful. The mention of Judge Mukasey suggests there is something to her account. He is one of the controllers of the 9/11 OCT.

What Exactly Makes Mukasey 'Widely Admired'?

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/pressclips/2007/09/what_exactly_ma.php

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago

Pretty big conspiracy just to shut someone up after they had already spoken. They corrupted two different judges, her coworkers, and the neighbors. They ALSO gave her more publicity than she ever had before this all came out. Doesn't make sense.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

You don't have to corrupt Mukasey. The media can twist and distort what witnesses report. Character assassination is a daily practice for the usual suspects.

[-] 1 points by ContinuationofEarth (220) 5 years ago

Well come on. She was in for a year and silent for another five years based on PATRIOT ACT which is not real American law. She is the cousin of the guy who whispered on the ear of G.W.Bush saying "Mr. President, country is under attack!" She is a hero, she did not give up. Giving up is easy, she is telling the truth. It is not easy to mess with the guys who wants to rule the world no matter what.

[-] 1 points by screwtheman (122) 5 years ago

I heard she walked the presidents friends neighbors dog once. So she must know stuff.

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (5842) 5 years ago

Hi Barkode, Agree. Best Regards, Nevada

[-] 0 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

best to you. I miss Las Vegas ..

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (5842) 5 years ago

Hi Barkode, It is great to have an engineer contributing here. People in Las Vegas know what controlled implosions look like. With 9/11, not once, not twice, but three times buildings collapsed on their footprint. Bush administration as trustworthy as Al-Quada. Metal (evidence) from WTC removed and melted down. Best Regards, Nevada

[-] 1 points by Just1MoreVoice (76) 5 years ago

Here's a thought. Why don't we direct our energies at something we can actually do something about. It simply no longer matters if 9/11 was a conspiracy or not. That's 10 years in the past. What could you possibly hope to accomplish? You can't bring them back.

If you want to punish someone, that's not something we can do here. It's the same thing with the bankers. Sure what they did was wrong, but it was still legal thanks to lobbyists and corrupt politicians. They can't be punished for it. All we can hope for is to insure it can't happen again.

[-] 1 points by ContinuationofEarth (220) 5 years ago

There are people who are trying to ruin 9/11 related posts. If I knew how to ban them, I would. They are ruining my post as well. They are trying to discredit the discussion.

[-] 1 points by joewealthyhahaa (2) 5 years ago

perfect. Talk about a 9/11 gov conspiracy alongside OWS rants. Idiots Unite!

[-] 1 points by americanboy (48) 5 years ago

OWS

[-] 1 points by americanboy (48) 5 years ago

What about 9/10/01

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Urban Moving Systems Inc.

[-] 1 points by KofA (495) from Muenster, TX 5 years ago

With all due respect, this is the WORST idea I've seen thus far.

A decades old issue has NO bearing on OWS.

[-] 1 points by slizzo (-96) 5 years ago

OWS needs to eliminate the truthtards from their midst if they want to be taken seriously.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

@ Barkode : Please also try ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW6mJOqRDI4 ... BUT .. NO, No and thrice no to '9/!! Truth' getting mixed up with OWS at this stage !!

OWs MUST Keep The Focus On The Banksters and Follow The Money (What IT is & Who Is Issuing IT & How ?) ... all else will take care of itself .. we're all on a Spinning Spiral and there's Quickening to a Reckoning going on !

per ardua ad astra ...~~~*

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

The last official report stated, it was brought down by "mysterious magnetic forces".

That sounds about right for that investigative team.

[-] 1 points by TLydon007 (1278) 5 years ago

To put it politely, it's just not relevant to anything this movement was started for.

Making this a demand would be no different than making all of PETA's demands part of the movement. All it will do is divide support and cause us to digress into irrelevance.

[-] 1 points by Kevabe (81) 5 years ago

HAHAHAHA,... y'all need to stop smoking so much weed.

[-] 1 points by beamerbikeclub (414) 5 years ago

oh god... more of this nonsense. news flash: buildings that are boiling in flames and have giant holes in them are likely to collapse.

we have enough problems to solve without inventing ghosts.

[-] 1 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

A waste of time and energy! There are plausible explanations and motives to why it happened and why the towers collapsed the way they did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks#Collapse_of_the_World_Trade_Center

I´d like to ask you this. If it was staged, then 19 people voluntarily commited suicide to kill hundreds or thousands of people, so that the Bush regime could get away with it´s politics?! Who were those people that killed themselves if not Islamic fundamentalists doing it for their beliefs?! If they cooperated with the Bush-gov against Islam the motive to die for this cause could not be to go to paradise as a martyr (i don´t think Allah would like the idea of them working with Bush & co), so what motived did they have?

It is also HIGHLY unlikely that it could be kept secret if it was planned by the American government.

Quit wasting time and energy on this ridiculous conspiracy!!

[-] 2 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Wikipedia is not objective regarding 9/11. There are other areas where confomity trumps truth on Wikipedia. The official narrative of 9/11/01 is impossible to sustain. The biggest mass murder in US history remains un-investigated. The evidence points to the International Bankster Cartel, not to Islamic extremists.

[-] 2 points by ScrewyL (809) 5 years ago

19 people committed suicide, huh?


American Airlines Flight 11

  • Waleed M. Alshehri - STILL ALIVE
  • Wail M. Alshehri - STILL ALIVE
  • Abdulaziz Alomari - STILL ALIVE

United Airlines Flight 175

  • Mohand Alshehri - STILL ALIVE

American Airlines Flight 77

  • Salem Alhazmi - STILL ALIVE

United Airlines Flight 93

  • Saeed Alghamdi - STILL ALIVE
  • Ahmed Alnami - STILL ALIVE

Count 'em, 7. You should probably revise your blind faith in this "ridiculous conspiracy (theory)" down from 19 to..

Twelve.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/hijackers.html

[-] 0 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

OK my point is this; It doesn´t matter how many the hijackers were. Even if it was only one plane hitting one tower you would have to answer the question to why the hell anyone would do that for Bush & co?!

My point is also that for ANY "power" it is vital to show that you are in control and know what is going on. Therefore they (Bush-gov) had to pick, within a limited timeframe, an explanation to how and why the attacks happened.

How many is not relevant, someone had to fly those planes right?

So prolly they had a list of potential terrorists and just went with a few neames on it?

How could they keep a plan like that secret if the attacks were staged?

[-] 4 points by ScrewyL (809) 5 years ago

Look, I mean this in the nicest of ways (really), but you're niave. I don't mean this by way of insult, but instead in fact, and I cannot make this truth more palatable to your ears.

I don't need to wonder why anyone would do something for "Bush and co" -- Senior was head of the CIA, had his hands into gun and drug and people smuggling to/from revolutionaries all over the world, and laundered over $1.5 trillion through pakistan -- and got away with it.

There's a lot you dont' know about because it doesn't fit within the sphere of your political belief system, and so, you have no need to investigate it or will to believe it. You're not alone in that regard; it's a fact of human nature, and the grand majority of the U.S. is just as lost to explain the things that happen in the world.

And as for the crazy "how could they keep the plan secret" bit of denial; they didn't. I know about it. Thousands of people know about it. It's not a secret -- you're just going along with the story, Because it fits your belief system.

That's how.

--Now, you may ask "what about your belief system? (as in mine) Well: I don't have one. I don't believe things. I research them until all available evidence is validated by Fact.

That is not an easy task, but I have a knack for it. You and a million other people might even consider me crazy for bothering (and many have), but it's just what I do.

I know that hasn't convinced you but you must realize that nothing will. This is a series of beliefs you hold, which you will evaluate all-at-once, and, if we tried to correct them one at a time, you would end up running yourself in circles, literally forgetting the revelations you had previously held and concluding, once again, no matter how far along you get down the path, that: "no, I just don't believe that.

The only salvation I can offer is, for you to stop relying on fatih and belief, and instead learn to apply logic and reason. It's not as easy as it sounds. The vast proportion of people cannot do it, even when they think they are.

[-] -1 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

You are the believer in the conspiracy, i´m not. Dealing indirectly with illegal money is much different from staging a secret attack against your own country that kill thousands and then make it look like foreign terrorists did it, and it doesn´t involve anyway near as much resources and people.

This has nothing to do with my political belief system. Your belief is that since Bush & Co gained so much from 9/11 and there are some questions to exactly how the towers collapsed, it must be a conspiracy. Then you start looking for evidence and and you find this and that to support your thesis, confirmation bias.

You still have some answering to do. I see some of the other supporters of the conspiracy haven´t even considered what i was asking. Still they are quick to give answers that contradict other things.

Passengers called from planes witnessing things. Wikileaks released documents that supported the official version though added some details to how FBI investigated it. Who´s in denial here?

"And as for the crazy "how could they keep the plan secret" bit of denial; they didn't. I know about it. "

You don´t answer the question. How could they plan it, do it and keep all of it secret up to this date? It is a huge "project" involving so many that it just can´t happen that way. Sorry. You really NEED at least a theory to how it is possible, because if you cannot come up with one there is no reason to believe it happened and to pursuit finding evidence for it. You say you don´t believe, that you are merely looking at facts and logic but you are mistaken i think. Facts and can make us believe things and beliefs can drive us to finding facts and logic relations. That´s how much of good science is being done.

The attack also had many unpredictable elements in it. No one predict exactly what would happen if you fly a passenger jet into WTC, so even if you are a skilled engineer much of it turns to speculation. Some of you guys look blindly at what temperatue steel melts and fuel burns etc but there are so many parameters involved that can effect each other.

The so called "truthers" don´t give any clear answers or explanations built on facts, it´s rather the opposite, they speculate and ask questions!

This is my final word on this, this time. I said it was a waste of time and i now find myself wasting time on it. I say good luck in finding indisputable evidence for the conspiracy. In my opinion you should already have them when shouting out such claims as the "truthers" do.

[-] 3 points by ScrewyL (809) 5 years ago

"The so called truthers" notwithstanding, you need to realize that I do have clear answers and explanations, based not on speculation but incontrovertible, repeatable, investigatable fact.

I know I will not convince you, but here is my evidence:

  • The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics (on two axes)
  • The Laws of Falling Bodies (3 instances)
  • Eyewitness Testimony (at all building locations; inside and outside; and within the pentagon 'situation room')
  • Earwitness testimony
  • Nosewitness testimony
  • Flight Path Data
  • Residual physical evidence (after-the-fact)
  • Thermal imaging of WTC during and after
  • Government admissions
  • Government decepetion
  • Self-contradiction (numerous times)
  • Feigned ignorance
  • Criminal exhibition of foreknowledge (6 instances)
  • Removal of bomb dogs a week before
  • Building powerdown weekend before
  • Insider whistle-blowers
  • Motive, Intent & Opportunity

Fluke:

I am very, very tired of being forever on the 'defending' end of these arguments. It strikes me as sad that the American people, once intelligent and scrupulous, have been reduced to the point that they cannot (AND WILL NOT!) differentiate a controlled demolition from a melting building.

No matter what evidence I present to you, you will reject it. sigh

Read my bullet points above again. Make no mistake, I am telling you, that there is NO question that the buildings were demolished intentionally, rather than collapsed due to airplane-induced fire. NO Question. That fact does not require you to believe it; it is still a fact.

I don't know how else to say it, and I'm tired of saying it: The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

Have you ever grilled a steak, fluke?

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

That last bullet should be

Means, Motive and Opportunity.

[-] 0 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

See you contradict yourself, first you say you are tired of saying "The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics" then you say it nine times. ;)

Now, seriously.

"Make no mistake, I am telling you, that there is NO question that the buildings were demolished intentionally, rather than collapsed due to airplane-induced fire. NO Question. That fact does not require you to believe it; it is still a fact."

I show you MY logic thinking:

We take your assumption that they planned the attack. How were they thinking?

Like this?

-First and foremost the towers MUST collapse! -Why? -Well....never mind that now! -OK, well how can we achieve that, sir?

  • I am sure that a Boeing 767 crashing into a WTC tower will be enough to make it collapse. -How can you be sure? -I made some calculations on velocity and mass of the plane and structure and materials of the towers... -Hmm a crash like that is a rather chaotic event....very hard to calculate, what if you are wrong? -I am convinced that i am correct on this matter. -Well i´m not convinced, i see you have overlooked some important factors in your calculation that may be crucial. I suggest we also plant some explosives in the building, just to be sure. If the towers won´t collapse from the impact of the aeroplanes we set off the explosives. -Great idea! --Any second opinion dear illumitati? silence -OK, good! Let´s get to work!

No one realised that the explosives was all they needed? I am a bit disappointed...i thought "the illuminati" would be illuminated enough to realize such an obvious thing!

If the towers were brought down with explosives they didn´t need to hijack the planes and find people willing to kill themselves in the first place. If Rumsfeldt & Cheney & friends planted bombs in the towers (not personally of course) to achieve a controlled demolition, what was the purpose of hijacking the planes? Extravaganza? In 1993 a truck filled with explosives went off in a garage under the north tower. They could have easily decieved the public by ONLY demolishing the towers and then put the blame on islamic terrorist, with the -93 event in memory.

Why didn´t they do it the easy way? You see no one would make a plan more difficult than necessary, like you assume. Drop it!

Find another drama in your life that doesn´t involve VERY serious absurd accusations.

"truthers"...Welcome to reality at any time!

[-] 1 points by ScrewyL (809) 5 years ago

Despite having said it nine times, you still don't fathom the import. Should I say it some more, or is it safe to say you don't even know what the SECOND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS is?

Enough of you. You insult me with the implication that I worked backward from a conclusion, filtering evidence -- however, it simply is not true. You will be unable to support that accusation by reviewing the points I listed, which you casually brush off and ignore.

Infact, I have examined every single piece of evidence I have ever seen regarding WTC, The Pentagon, and Flight 93 on 9/11. I have examined every theory of conspiracy, both offical and unoffical. I have examined the arguments of every debunker you've likely encountered.

I have, through the course of my own research, listed over 500 assertions made by all parties and cross referenced them by exclusion to determine which statements are debated and by whom.

I have evaluated these assertions in light of all physical evidence which I am aware of from the perspective of the laws of physics, chemistry, and criminology.

I have done this relentlessly for 10 years now, yet in reply you utilize nothing of any more substance than strawman, ad hominem, and red herring arguments -- the trifecta of ignorance!

While you were busy enjoying the comforts of your false security, I was "getting to the bottom of it", because: should I conclude, for myself, that our government has gone completely rogue and beyond all resuscitation, then that will neccessitate, out of principal and honor, a very specific series of actions on my part -- on ALL of our parts.

Read between the lines on that last statement, and you will understand why it is a conclusion I come to after no small amount of consideration. However: it IS my conclusion.

You are arguing with the wrong person, and so am I.

[-] 1 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

And none of that reply is an answer to the point i was making.

If you spent 10 years on it i can see why you take it personally.

[-] 1 points by ScrewyL (809) 5 years ago

The first point you made was that conspiracy theorist nutcases work backwards to support their cockamamy belief systems. This is a canned argument repeatedly utilized by the debunker shill bootlickers to support their cockamamy belief systems.

More to the point, it proves or disproves nothing and has no place in a discussion about 9/11 or any other event throughout all of history, past, present or future.

The second point you made was that planes were unneccessary to "the plot" (as if you've never heard of misdirection) -- yet I can explain their presence to you easily: The Transport Security Administration.

By seizing control of free movement between The States and outside of The United States, an authoritarian system can slowly be installed. We have seen this happen many times, it is no mystery.

Your second sentence in that last reply, about me taking it personally, is thinly veiled Ad Hominem (again) and places the cart before the horse. To say I "take it personally" is to slander me by way of belittling the issue.

I do not take it personally. I take it seriously.

-- And I took it seriously 10 years ago, which is why I've spent all that time.

As for why I take it so seriously? I've answered that. If our government is rogue, then it must be dealt with, for all of our safety.

And finally, as for "who is They", the inevitable question you debunker shill bootlickers ask. Know your enemy: It is the military of the United States. It is The Pentagon.

[-] 1 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

So what are you gonna do? Now that you know the truth behind and have all the indisputable evidence?

[-] 1 points by ScrewyL (809) 5 years ago

What would you do if your family, friends, and countrymen were all in danger?

[-] 1 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

I am asking you who belive the threat we talked about is real, i do not share that belief.

[-] 1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

The scary thing is that 9/11 probably wasn't planned and executed by the Bush Mob. Sure they played along because the perpetrators have the them by the short-hairs, in more ways than one. As for someone having to have piloted the planes, ever hear of electronic guidance? The final approaches were beyond human abilities.

[-] -1 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

Ever heard that people on the planes called their relatives and those relatives can confirm that? They are also involved in the plan i assume?

Wikileaks also published documents that supports the official record.

Electronic guidance? You believe it was electronic guidance from start? Besides, it doesn´t matter. The hi-jackers were on the plane and died with it, it doesn´t make any difference WHERE in the plane they were when it crashed.

You see, you are just making up ad-hoc guesses to support the conspiracy.

As i said to someone else go make your wish list instead, as you probably believe in Santa Claus as well.

[-] 2 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Well, no, I am a distinguished graduate of the US Army Hawk Missile electronics school who has studied the publicly available flight data. The planes flew as if they were guided missiles.

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (5842) 5 years ago

Hi fjolsvit, Excellent. Good to have contribution from technical expert. Best Regards, Nevada

[-] -1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 5 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories#Hijackers

This has been debunked a long time ago.

[-] 1 points by ScrewyL (809) 5 years ago

Thras, it's uncharateristically unscientific of you to post and and then reference your own unsourced claims... I had come to expect a bit more from you.

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 5 years ago

I used Wikipedia to show you the names of the papers and the people who you could call to do your research. I said it would take you several months and you should call BBC, New-York Times and try to have an interview with the people in this article. I never asked you to trust Wikipedia blindly.

I'm not trying to prove you wrong or right. I don't care about 9/11 conspiracy theories. I think they are a waste of brain power. But, if you do care about it, then you can use that Wikipedia link as a starting point, not a finishing point, for your research. Again, it will take you several months to sort this out.

[-] 1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

http://911research.wtc7.net/index.html is one of the more reliable sources. They maintain the myth of Islamakazi pilots so as not to alienate families. I strongly disagree with that "white lie" strategy.

[-] 1 points by ScrewyL (809) 5 years ago

Yes, you did so after my message above ;) Just keepin you honest

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 5 years ago

No, sometimes I continue editing just after having posted. You probably read my message between my edits. I finished my message before reading yours. In any case, it doesn't really matter. Enjoy your research. When you find something interesting give us an update.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

ADHD too?

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 5 years ago

Perhaps. I have never been diagnosed. Why the ad hominem? How does this help the debate?

I edit my comments afterwards if I see mistakes, a better way to formulate a sentence, or if I forgot something. I do this right after posting, not 10 minutes later. The reason is because I find it difficult to overview a message typed in a small box. I should perhaps write my messages in a text editor and paste them here when they are ready, but I'm too lazy for that. I just like to read my messages after posting, and then fix up the loose ends. It seems like the easiest way.

What's your posting technique?

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

It takes one to know one.

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 5 years ago

The last time I heard that saying I was eight.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Back on topic. The FBI said they really couldn't identify the "hijackers".

[-] -1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 5 years ago
  1. The FBI released the names of the 19 hijackers.
    1. BBC reported that some people in England had those names.
    2. Some readers believed some hijackers were still alive in England.
    3. Four days after releasing the names of the hijackers, the FBI released the photos of said hijackers and it became obvious to everyone that the people with the same names were not the hijackers, but simply people with the same names.
    4. Still, conspiracy websites never print this information, and Michael Moore omitted it from his film on 9/11.
    5. Still, conspiracy theorists are not interested by this information.
    6. Still, you will not research this and always believe 100% of the things you read on conspiracy websites, and 0% of what you read on debunking websites.
    7. It is thus useless to talk about it. I have given you the information. You can either research it or ignore it. You may believe what you want. I do not care, and do not wish to discuss 9/11 conspiracy theories any longer. They bore me to no end and are flawed from top to bottom. I even think they are dangerous as they promote illogical thought. They ruin brains.
[-] -1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Conspiracy websites? Do you have any idea how paranoid that sounds?

[-] -1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 5 years ago

Lol! Those people are dead. You're reading the wrong sites. A London news paper claimed these people were still alive a few days after 911, but it retracted the mistake a few days later when it realized they were just people with the same names. These are popular Muslim names, like John Smith in English. Conspiracy theorists forget to mention the retraction. Don't read such trashy sites, it's bad for your brain.

[-] 2 points by ScrewyL (809) 5 years ago

I searched for 'living hijackers debunked' and 'living hijackers dead', with and without '7' and '19' -- but was unable to find any specific reference to this debunking.

I found numerous people state "oh that was debunked" but you see, I dont' believe anything I don't see with my own eyes. When people say "that was debunked" it was as if they said nothing. It must be debunked to MY eyes.

I am still researching, and I know of a way to confirm or reject your theory:

  1. The FBI released pictures of the hijackers (which by the way they have removed from their site -.-)

  2. The supposedly living hijackers have given interviews in video and print, so there will be pictures of those people.

Therefore:

IF the pictures the FBI released match the people who are still alive, then the FBI's account, and your theory are false.

However, being a sophist, you must realize the diffculty of investigation which is, that if the people pictured are NOT the same, that does NOT prove that the FBI's theory is correct (contrapositve); i.e.

The people who's pictures were released by the FBI may have different names than the ones attributed to them by the FBI.

Anyhow; by that method, I can disprove one side, but not prove the other. To truly prove their case, the FBI would have to provide addtional evidence identifying the individuals. (Family, DNA, etc.)

[-] -2 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 5 years ago

If you're interested in seriously researching this issue, you should start with the source that printed the erroneous statements.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories#Hijackers

You should call BBC and the New-York Times for further explanations. Also, talk with John Bradley and Thomas Kean. Here is a brief excerpt from the above link with what Bradley had to say:

"When the FBI released photographs four days after the cited reports on September 27, the mistaken identities were quickly resolved. According to Bradley, "all of this is attributable to the chaos that prevailed during the first few days following the attack. What we're dealing with are coincidentally identical names." In Saudi Arabia, says Bradley, the names of two of the allegedly surviving attackers, Said al-Ghamdi and Walid al-Shari, are "as common as John Smith in the United States or Great Britain."[147]"

It will probably take you a few months to do this research properly. When you're done, if you have some evidence for your claims get back to me. Right now, I think it's safe to say you read to many one-side conspiracy theory websites.

[-] 0 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

the only way it could have happened the way it was presented in the official report is if a bearded guy upstairs suspended the laws of physics on that day, in NYC only. But since I'm an atheist (and also an engineer) I'll ignore your conspiracy theory.

[-] 1 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

I am an also an atheist. You didn´t answer my question. Who were those guys who killed themselves for republican Bushy politics?

[-] 2 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

what "19 people"? What "Islamic fundamentalists"?! You mean those guys that were drunk and high on cocaine and quite noisy (and demanding and hitting on naked chicks, as the “Islamic fundamentalists” are known to do) in topless bars? You mean those guys who couldn't fly a one-engine Cessna? You mean those “terrorists” that are alive and well, as it is well documented? Or you mean that “terrorist” whose paper-and-plastic passport miraculously survived the explosion and fire (that … melted steel and pulverized the airplane) only to conveniently land on the ground as “proof” of al-Qaeda?

It’s up to you to get your “answers” from CNN or Fucks-News, or to get THE answers. Take yer pick ..

[-] 0 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

Drunk and high on cocaine?! Still they managed to fly those airplanes with excellent presicion...it does not hold dude. Admit it.

Know this - it wasn´t necessarily al-Qaeda who did it. al-Qaeda may have been picked just to have something to tell the public, to make it look like "don´t worry, we know who did this and we are going to get them folks!". The Bush-administration may well have decided to put the blame on them in lack of alternatives. Also, al-Qaeda may well have taken credit for it even though they didn´t do it.

I take my pick, not from CNN or Fucks News (i call them Faux News) but from what i find is reasonable, likely and plausible.

You still have some answering to do. It´s not an explanation that they were drunk and/or high on cocaine. If they were part of a plan, which they must have been according to your conspiracy, at some point, way before they were in the planes, they must have been sober and made the choice to kill themselves for republican politics for the Bush regime. Your answer does not hold. Drop it!

[-] 3 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

you don't make any sense. Half of the martyrs that "made the choice to kill themselves for republican politics" are alive, but you conveniently ignore the evidence. The surviving paper-and-plastic passport is against the laws of physics and any toddler's commonsense, but, again, you conveniently "forget" to address the issue ..

[-] 1 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

I ask you again...who were those people that flew the planes?

[-] -1 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

did I ever pretend that I know? BUT, if the conclusion of a book (the 9/11 report, in this case), no matter how nice are the covers, is that 2 + 2 = 19 I'll say the report is a pile of crap without even reading it. If Bush would tell ya that you are Stalin's grandma, would you believe him, or make any effort to try to disprove it? And if you don't know who Stalin's grandma is, does that make Bush right?

[-] 1 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

So you don´t think a motive is important? Is that what you are saying?

I mean within those who died for it...

It doesn´t matter how many the hijackers were. Even if it was only one plane hitting one tower you would have to answer the question to why the hell anyone would do that for Bush & co?!

My point is also that for ANY "power" it is vital to show that you are in control and know what is going on. Therefore they (Bush-gov) had to pick, within a limited timeframe, an explanation to how and why the attacks happened.

How many is not relevant, someone had to fly those planes right?

So prolly they had a list of potential terrorists and just went with a few neames on it?

How could they keep a plan like that secret if the attacks were staged?

[-] 1 points by ScrewyL (809) 5 years ago

No, motive and fact are two different things.

Fact is WHAT happened, and it is objective.

Motive is WHY, and it is subjective.

The motive that makes sense to one person may not make sense to you, either because of a difference in value systems or a lack of knowledge.

[-] 1 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

I never said that either. The motives are well-known. One of them was US fighting Israel's wars (take down Saddam). The economically very important Afghanistan was another one. Yet another one: once the Cold War was over, the Armament Industry needed a War on Terror to stay (insanely) profitable. Then think Patriot Act, NWO and so on. All they needed was a 21st century Pearl Harbor ..

[-] 1 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

Yes, plausible motives for people that have been abused by U.S foreign policy. (which happens to be the motive al-Qaeda posed) But as you know i ask for the motives within the people you believe killed themselves for Bush &co. Quit dodging the issue!

[-] 1 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

you adamantly stick to yer few trees (= unanswered – yet -- questions) and refuse (or are unable) to see the forest ..

[-] 1 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

Yes, you know why? Because it is an important tree. It is one that is still alive in the dead forest you seem to be lost in. The conspiracy NEED an answer to why at least 3 people, working with the Bush administration were willing to kill themselves and thousands of Americans so that Bush & Co could get away with there politics!

[-] 1 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

cuz the damn "3 people" were misled by their mossad handlers (posing as "Islamic fundamentalists") into believing that they are, actually, crushing the infidels (and, right after that, they'll fuck 72 virgins and eat pilaf with their buddy all-AH)

[-] 0 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

Go write your wish list now...i bet you believe in Santa Claus as well.

[-] 2 points by ScrewyL (809) 5 years ago

This is a perfect example of "circling the toiletbowl of denial".

You said: "They couldn't have been drunk and high on cocaine because they flew the airplanes with precision."

But he said: "They couldn't have flown the planes with such precision because they were drunk and high on cocaine."

Neither of the two statements can refute the other, since they are mutually exclusive and lack any direct supporting fact (such as a blood alchohol test.) See, an investigator does not ever rely upon indirection relationships to constrain the possible conclusions circumstantially. Infact, it is a fallacy to believe that exclusionary assertions ("it could not be that way because _ ") can ever tell you what did happen. Only positive assertions can do that.

In that little debate between you two, the question, really, is this:

Was he drunk, or not, or do we not know?

You must answer that question before you can conclude anything else. All-too-often, people in your position assume: "I do not know so I will pretend the answer is no." --But that is not Science!

Something has happened to our society where most people will backflip off a bridge before they admit that they do not know something, even something small and impersonal. Very strange, and I suspect it has an Orwellian cause. Admitting what you do and don't know is indeed the only way to apply reason to solve problems.

Also, It DOES matter if the administration lied, because as of yet that haven't admitted to such, and -- when it comes to massive oragnizations like government -- one person's honest (white lie) often times is cover for another more sinister one.

A million things happen every day that are not "reasonable, likely, and plausible" -- yet they happen. And often, all it takes to explain them is a small bit of missing information: insanity? black mail? bribery?, etc.

Forget about (what you believe is) reasonable, likely, and plausible -- none of those things need neccessarily to be the actual truth.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 5 years ago

" they must have been sober and made the choice to kill themselves for republican politics for the Bush regime." They could have been recruited for a holy jihad or whatever by someone the patsies believed was on their side.

[-] 0 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

truthers=patsies

[-] 1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 5 years ago

and liars? what are they?

[-] 1 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 5 years ago

who says they killed themselves. try to open your mind. who knows what happened regarding them. you can focus on some unknowns or look more closely at what is highly probable, such as explosions and controlled demolition. Wikipedia isn't always correct. they are human. they can be like msm, making mistakes and with bias to follow

[-] 1 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

What about the planes? Drones?

[-] 3 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 5 years ago

i don't know. who knows anything for sure. one thing i can see with my own eyes is explosions and near free fall, and from there the whole official story fell apart for me.

we don't need to answer every question, to know that one or some invalidate an argument, is already enough for it to be false.

many people will hold on to the unanswerable since it is too scary to face possibility that their belief system is in need of repair. the perpetrators of this crime understand this, that's why it's almost the perfect crime. if there is such a thing. haha

[-] 3 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 5 years ago

Psychology of 911 Truth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trfCyvLAQd8

911: A Conspiracy Theory http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98

9/11 - The Toronto Hearings - 09/10/11 - Graeme MacQueen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UPwJGZfHbo

9/11 - The Toronto Hearings - 09/10/11 - David Chandler http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UErOy9lwfhc&feature=youtu.be

9/11 - The Toronto Hearings - 09/10/11 - Niels Harrit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNPeMvsSbl4&feature=related

Journal of 911 Studies http://www.journalof911studies.com/

Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth http://www.ae911truth.org/

Remember building 7 http://rememberbuilding7.org/10/

Solving the mystery of building 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZEvA8BCoBw&feature=player_embedded

911 Blogger http://911blogger.com/

[-] -1 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

For an extraordinary claim like that you need very strong evidence. Now, the question i pose is much releveant and needs an answer. That at least 3 people would kill themselves for the cause you and other so called "truthers" claim and that it could be kept secret is totally unbelievable.

If you can´t know anything for sure what is the point of doing research?

I say you have to know before it is legitimate to make that preposterous claim!

[-] -3 points by MercD (20) from Spanaway, WA 5 years ago

Yes, because fire doesn't weaken metal or burn flammable objects...

[-] 2 points by ScrewyL (809) 5 years ago

Have you ever grilled a steak on a charcoal or gas fire?

Tasty, huh?

[-] 0 points by MercD (20) from Spanaway, WA 5 years ago

and have you realized that over time, even 200 degree heat ruins the grill?

Think of what 2000 degrees would do... jesus dude... did you pay attention in school?

[-] -1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 5 years ago

Is it at all possible that "Muslim fanatics" or any other kind, could be recruited to be patsies? You know, the little fish who ends up holding the bag?

The fact that many Muslims, and Chinese, and Vietnamese, and Koreans, and Serbians indeed hate the US, and many from either of these groups would probably give their own lives to harm Americans or the US with songs on their lips wouldn't explain the absence of the US Airforce, or the facts so often cited by Architechts and Engineers for 911 Truth. Why did Bush refuse the Taliban offers to turn Bin Ladn over for trial? We don't need to understand what was on the mind of any given patsy who could have gotten roped in and used.

[-] 2 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

"Why did Bush refuse the Taliban offers to turn Bin Laden over for trial?"

As i recall it the Talibans never offered to turn Bin Ladin over. But let´s say the Talibans gave the offer. Why would Bush-gov refuse it? The answer is obvious, they would lose the excuse they needed to invade Afghanistan.

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[-] 1 points by Infowar (295) 5 years ago

I vote YES to an Independent (re)investigation

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Why?

[-] 0 points by Infowar (295) 5 years ago

A&E for 911 truth

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Been a member since it was started.

[-] 0 points by Glaucon (296) 5 years ago

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Ronald Lauder and WTC Privatization

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/331367/1/

How interesting that a man with a Mossad-connected school in Israel was responsible for privatizing the World Trade Center just weeks before it was destroyed.

[-] 0 points by Glaucon (296) 5 years ago

What an interesting connection which offers no proof of anything. Ah yes, connect this then connect that. What a fun game.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago
[-] -1 points by Glaucon (296) 5 years ago

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Don't understand 2 degrees of Heinz?

The images you are spamming are blocked on my end.

[-] 0 points by Glaucon (296) 5 years ago

If they are blocked, then you have no problem. You won't mind me sending some more.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago
[-] -1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 5 years ago

What? How did you see my blocked images? Let's make a test. Can you see these?

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

'reptilian brain'

http://www.crystalinks.com/reptilianbrain.html

I block them when I see them, lizard brain.

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[-] 0 points by winwinforall (-13) 5 years ago

Why did congress "turn the eye" the other way when there's ample proof that george bush and his gangters did the 911? He was reading a book upside down:

http://tinyurl.com/cz5y7jz

In the intel world, everyone has known about the non-existence of al qaeda:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=corbett+report+al+qaeda+does+not+exist+part+1 (Corbett report...)

http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=23053 (Al Qaeda doesn't exist)

The war on Terror is a total HOAX, a Video interview with Aaron Russo (A must watch VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nD7dbkkBIA

Top Ranking CIA Operatives Admit Al-qaeda Is a Complete Fabrication http://polidics.com/cia/top-ranking-cia-operatives-admit-al-qaeda-is-a-complete-fabrication.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7713

70,000 people got killed - - and not 3000 as reported by the media (another lie):

Please see quote on page 9 of http://www.phoenixmaterials.org/pdf/070523.pdf

"Iraq was double-crossed by Bush and the CIA, and the oil holdings of this country were seized by England. Do you think you-the-people will somehow get cheap gas prices out of the robbery? Dear friends, you were not included in the plan to divide up the spoils. England and Israel do not like the people of America. Israel sent a notice to all the “Jews” who worked in and around the World Trade Center towers in New York that day, AND NONE OF THEM DIED. WHY WERE THE JEWS OFF? IT WAS NOT ONE OF THEIR HOLIDAYS. YOU LOST 70,000 PEOPLE—NOT 3,000—that is why the New York mafia was called in to dump the evidence at sea. Tony Blair let it slip twice how many were actually killed because it was British Intelligence who masterminded the whole affair THROUGH the Central Intelligence Agency. In case anything went wrong, it would not get traced back to your overlords in London.

The top policy makers and foreign diplomats do not receive their paychecks from U.S. taxpayers. They are paid by the Bank of International Settlements—A FOREIGN BANK! Americans cannot pay any of their government functions (state or national) because not only is America out of work, but all your little change that is being bled from the few of you who have jobs goes straight to the creditors. Are you not familiar with how that works? It is called Bankruptcy and Foreclosure. All that you have—including your businesses, homes and land—goes to the creditor, THE BANK, to repay the loan. This includes your minerals, oil, coal, natural gas—all natural resources, INCLUDING HUMAN RESOURCES!"

http://www.forbiddenknowledgetv.com/videos/socio-economics/jesse-venturas-conspiracy-theory---911-pentagon-attack-full-episode-.html (Jesse Ventura's 'Conspiracy Theory' - 911 Pentagon Attack: Full Episode)

Gordon Duff's artilce ties to the same video above: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/12/18/gordon-duff-gov-jesse-ventura-proves-911-cover-up-will-americas-government-fall/

CIA asset Susan Lindauer blows the whistle on 911 / Iraq (January 18, 2011) http://mikephilbin.blogspot.com/2011/01/cia-asset-susan-lindauer-blows-whistle.html

CIA Asset Susan Lindauer.. Can Now Speaks 10 years after 2001-9-11 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxJTwbHdH6k

9/11 PLANNERS CONFESS ON NETWORK TELEVISION http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/08/22/gordon-duff-911-planner-confess-on-network-television

There are videos proving 911 was an inside job (Joint Mossad - CIA terrorist operation): http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=911+loose+change+full+version&aq=1 ("Loose change" videos exposing 911 domestic terrorist event)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yx9NRX37SM (Planned event from long time ago)

http://tinyurl.com/yg9hgce (Nano Thermite)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XctzZ4eb2O0&feature=player_embedded# (Nano Thermite)

http://www.dipity.com/timeline/Nano-Thermite/list

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwC38L4-F10&feature=related (Leo Zagami Explaining the secret behind 9/11)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nD7dbkkBIA (Rockefeller Reveals 9/11 FRAUD to Aaron Russo)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm73wOuPL60&feature=related (Bush Caught Lying About September 11th)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlWSv0NZBRw&NR=1 (Evidence that George W. Bush had advanced knowledge of 9-11)

http://northerntruthseeker.blogspot.com/search?q=911 (Israel is behind 911 w/ the CIA)

This is a 26 parts interview with a former Russian nuclear intelligence officer who explains what happened during 9/11. You can change the number after the "part ".mp4 in the link to view from part2 to part25: http://www.3truth911.com/911_WTC_nuclear_demolition_Dimitri_Khalezov_part01.mp4

http://www.3truth911.com /911_WTC_nuclear_demolition_Dimitri_Khalezov_part26.mp4

The Imperial Anatomy of Al-Qaeda. The CIA’s Drug-Running Terrorists and the “Arc of Crisis”:

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20907

[-] 0 points by Infowar (295) 5 years ago

The spammers make you think don't they?

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Why do you Mossadomites fear this one so much?

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[-] 0 points by Supplysider (53) from Richboro, PA 5 years ago

Nice to see OWS improving its image with the support of 9/11 truthers.

[-] 0 points by jaimes (86) 5 years ago

And you have to investigate who really shot Lincoln and why Elvis keeps showing up at the 7-11 down the street.

[-] 0 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

in the state you live don't ya need a license to be so stupid and unfunny?

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[-] 0 points by ContinuationofEarth (220) 5 years ago

All we stand for has stolen from us. Here is how

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxJTwbHdH6k

[-] 0 points by Restorefreedomtoall1776 (272) from Bayonne, NJ 5 years ago

Yes, I agree. Building number 7 was still standing when that female reporter said it had already come down. That was only one of many mistakes made by the true perpetrators of that crime. I love tall buildings and I've always visited every famous tall building during my travels, but I never could make myself enter either tower of the World Trade Center. 1984 was the last time I was in NYC and even though I tried to walk from the Empire State Building to the WTC, I couldn't make myself do it. My shoes just seemed to freeze to the sidewalk. Apparently, I must have had a premonition of what was to come.

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[-] 0 points by Perspective (-243) 5 years ago

I already told everybody I did it. Yeeesh

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[-] 0 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

The last real attack on the US was 11 years ago and there is also increasing danger that Israel is being tied to that attack and this will soon be made public.
Many, more in the mainstream media than anyone would guess, have come to discover Israeli complicity in 9/11.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/11/25/iaea-cries-wolf-over-iran-nukes/

[-] 1 points by ContinuationofEarth (220) 5 years ago

Yes, it is a known fact. Here is a victim of PATRIOT ACT, and a CIA whistle blower Susan Lindauer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxJTwbHdH6k

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago

Read http://www.seattleweekly.com/2006-02-15/news/from-spy-to-psychotic/

Susan Lindauer is nuts according to her coworkers, her neighbors, and several court appointed psychologists.

[-] 1 points by ContinuationofEarth (220) 5 years ago

I watched her and found her brilliant, brave and very sane! That is an Orwelian accusation.

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[-] 0 points by ConcernedLibertarian (3) 5 years ago

No.

OWS is focused on economic issues.

E-C-C-O-N-O-M-I-C issues

Go off in too many directions and you fracture the movement by pushing away potential members.

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[-] 0 points by ciavlad (85) 5 years ago

The current crisis is not likely financial, but is likely moral. People love money and do not love our neighbor. “For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows”.

[-] -1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 5 years ago

Good detective work son! Keep it real. Keep it MatLock style.

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[-] -1 points by Rico (3027) 5 years ago

Engineers (like myself) long ago explained why the towers came down. That fact that the layman doesn't understand the engineering doesn't make it less true.

Your "Nobel Prize Winner" won the prize in literature, not science.

Your "physicist" started out working "cold fusion" then moved to the 9/11 incident. He was suspended by BYU after their College of Physical and Mathematical Sciences and the faculty of structural engineering issued statements in which they distanced themselves from Jones' work. They noted that Jones' "hypotheses and interpretations of evidence were being questioned by scholars and practitioners."

The rest of the people in your conspiracy film are as unqualified as your "experts." The whole piece reminds me of the "documentaries" that "prove" aliens visted the earth several thousand years before Christ.

If you want to read some engineering reports...

1) MIT report at http://www-math.mit.edu/~bazant/WTC/WTC-asce.pdf "The analysis shows that if prolonged heating caused the majority of columns of a single floor to lose their load carrying capacity, the whole tower was doomed."

2) Scientific American at http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=when-the-twin-towers-fell "Once high temperatures weakened the towers' supporting steel structures, it was only a matter of time until the mass of the stories above initiated a rapid-sequence "pancaking" phenomena in which floor after floor was instantly crushed and then sent into near free fall to the ground below."

3) Structure Magazine at http://www.structuremag.org/Archives/2007-11/SF-WTC7-Gilsanz-Nov07.pdf

4) Purdue University at http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/cmh/distribution/PapersChron/WTC_I_Engineering_Perspective.pdf

I know all this engineering is boring and over your head, but that doesn't replace the need for you to understand it rather than spout unsubstantiated theories created primarily for entertainment purposes.

I, by the way, lost a friend on the Pentagon plane. Unfortunately, your film never explains what happened to all the people on the plane that never existed.

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[-] -1 points by winwinforall (-13) 5 years ago

Very inventive way to call for 9-11 disclosure! Really worth the watch... It's not easy to do a 9-11 piece that is light, and profound at the same time... but this is that. 3 min and 23 sec.

The veils are dropping like flies! And the Truth shall set us free... (even it is really ugly).

After many years of researching the available data I can say without reservation that what really happened is not what we are being told.

With deep respect to those to whom this may be a shock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAkWNxhBWjs

[-] -1 points by devilsadvocate (67) 5 years ago

Retard! oh, not politically correct...sorry you mentally challenged dirt-bag

[-] -1 points by nucleus (3291) 5 years ago

OWS does not make demands.

[-] 0 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

then it's all just a picnic in Zuccotti park?

[-] 3 points by nucleus (3291) 5 years ago

No, it's all just a picnic in over a thousand cities around the world and on college campuses across the nation.

[-] -1 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 5 years ago

Hmmm, good video, but not very useful information.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6240504594075547308

Testing US district courts to see if they can notice treason, proven.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11title_18.disclosure.html

Nope, can't even allow the record as criminal.

[-] -1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 5 years ago

Yeah we need more conspiracy theory nut cases running around...

[-] 4 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

u're obviously way too ignorant and uneducated to comprehend basic math or any laws of physics that govern our universe ..

[-] -1 points by Mooks (1985) 5 years ago

What laws of physics were violated?

[-] 2 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

too many to enlist. Why don't you watch the excellent video, the Nobel Prize Winner will clearly answer your question/s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XRMrMdn0NQ

[-] 1 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

Say one law that was violated. PLEASE!

[-] 4 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

ever heard of Newton? Free fall (laws of gravity)?

Or you might be more familiar with Thermodynamics. So: the melting point of that steel is 1,600 centigrade. The airplane fuel burns at 800 (which happens to be 50% less). Now if you can boil water at 50 centigrade (the boiling point for water is 100) you’ll surely secure the Nobel Prize.

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[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 5 years ago

It is just way too long.

[-] 2 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

if you have any scientific curiosity, just give it a try. Hey, you can stop it at any time. It's just an outstanding documentary you don't want to miss ..

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[-] -2 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 5 years ago

Yeah Right

[-] -2 points by Carnegie (9) 5 years ago

Lol. planes hijacked by islamic terrorists crashed into the WTC, Pentagon and a field in PA.

End of story.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

"Lol. planes hijacked by islamic terrorists crashed into the WTC, Pentagon and a field in PA.

End of story."

That is a fairly accurate summary of the OCT. But it has little to do with what actually happened on 09/11/01. Three planes hit buildings that day. On was shot down. These were terrorist attacks committed by conspirators. Lots of innocent people were murdered. That part is accurate. Beyond that, the OCT diverges considerably from fact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkCrZZvfCEw

[-] -2 points by JPB950 (2254) 5 years ago

Yes absolutely, a movement trying to fight political corruption and corporate greed should get sidetracked by a paranoid theory. Why not check on the Kennedy assassination, Roosevelt's role in Dec 7 attacks, alien bodies in area 51 at the same time? A sort of conspiracy theorists greatest hits collection.

[-] 5 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

"paranoid theory"?! So you believe that 2 + 2 = 19, or are you a hasbaRAT/zionist infiltrator getting desperate?

"What we need to stand up and say is not only did they attack the USS Liberty, they did 9/11. They did it. I have had long conversations over the past two weeks with contacts at the Army War College, at it's headquarters, Marine Corps and I made it absolutely clear in both cases that it is 100 percent certain that 9/11 was a Mossad operation. Period." -- Dr. Alan Sabrosky

http://bigeye.com/sabrosky.htm

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[-] 1 points by ContinuationofEarth (220) 5 years ago

This is not a theory anymore. Here is a CIA whistle blower, there are many other in FBI as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxJTwbHdH6k

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 5 years ago

You can't possibly take that woman seriously?

[-] 1 points by ContinuationofEarth (220) 5 years ago

Why not? She is telling the truth.

[-] 2 points by JPB950 (2254) 5 years ago

So I guess her being found mentally unfit to stand trial was just part of the conspiracy? Do you have any idea what is involved with making a building ready for controlled demolition? It can't be simply done over the weekend and then manage to hide all the evidence. It is a waste of whatever credibility OWS has with the public in general to devote time to conspiracy theories. Effort should be spent on the real problems.

[-] -1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 5 years ago

How do you know she is telling the truth? Just because she says so?

[-] 1 points by ContinuationofEarth (220) 5 years ago

This site is PG13. Go to bed!

[-] -3 points by Fluke (47) from Örebro, Örebro Län 5 years ago

Bush & co are a bunch of lying bastards who exploited 9/11 (as any goverment would have done) but they were not behind it.

[-] 1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Neither was "al Qaeda".

[-] -3 points by MercD (20) from Spanaway, WA 5 years ago

Oh jesus, first we get infiltrated by anarchists, then we get infiltrated by right-wing instigators... and now truthers... fuck this shit...

[-] 1 points by Barkode (105) 5 years ago

so the truth scares the bejesus outta ya, eh?

[-] -1 points by MercD (20) from Spanaway, WA 5 years ago

No, you are just helping make OWS an illegitimate cause...