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Forum Post: "9/11 : A Geo-Political Monster" - a 'cris de coeur' by Timothy Bancroft-Hinchey.

Posted 2 years ago on Sept. 12, 2012, 8:56 a.m. EST by shadz66 (19985)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

"9/11 : A Geo-Political Monster" - a 'cris de coeur'.

by Timothy Bancroft-Hinchey.

September 11, 2012, "Information Clearing House" ( http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/ )

The victims of 9/11 are not only encountered in New York. The victims of 9/11 lived in Afghanistan, in Iraq, in Libya and today, in Syria, campaigns created and wars waged on the back of the most shocking example of the manipulation of fear in the history of humankind. 9/11 was an insult to the memories of the deceased, an insult to their families.

The anomalies of the 9/11 attacks have been ably exposed by researchers over the last eleven years, since two aircraft slammed into the Twin Towers just before they appeared to be demolished in a classic implosion operation, since an "aircraft" turned the Pentagon into the Quadragon, yet leaving the lampposts through which it had to pass standing, and before another aircraft allegedly vanished...all 200 tonnes of it, including engines.

If wreckage of the Air France 447 was found at sea, then it is totally impossible that an aircraft of similar size hitting terrain would simply vaporise. That two plus two do not add up to four in the 9/11 attacks does not attenuate the suffering of those who lost husbands, wives, children, family, loved ones and friends, taken away in a snap, making their loss that much more shocking and difficult to deal with.

This is where our thoughts should be this day, eleven years after the United States of America and its allies were given a carte blanche to go globe-trotting on the back of a massive public opinion coup, justifying invasions, justifying massacres, justifying the most blatant outrages against human rights and international law. This is unfortunately the legacy of 9/11.

The legacy of 9/11 is the creation of a geo-political monster, as the FUKUS Axis (France, the UK and US) cynically took advantage of this stunt to justify their wars pandering to the whims of the lobbies which close ranks around each and every US President, eliminating those few who do not play ball.

On the back of 9/11 came Afghanistan, a hopeless waste of time and money and more importantly, human lives, a process which is on-going today, a process which has continued the destabilisation of a once-stable and socially progressive country by the Mujaheddin, unleashed by the CIA and the Pakistani Madrassah against the legitimate Government. The Taleban are a CIA experiment gone wrong. 9/11 was the ensuing thank-you note.

On the back on 9/11 came Iraq, an illegal invasion against a sovereign nation outside the auspices of the UNSC, rendering Bush and Blair liable for war crimes trials, a process which is already under way and which will hopefully see both of them spend a substantial period of time behind bars, yet not facing the sort of treatment their forces meted out to prisoners in concentration camps and detention centres, however much pleasure it would give one to water-board both of them.

On the back of 9/11 came Syria, a country invaded by terrorists, a country whose latent ethnic and religious differences were whipped up by outsiders, where groups of terrorists were armed and unleashed against the Government. The process started before Libya, it continues to this day, the FUKUS Axis yet again spreading misery and terror in their quest to place their minions in power to further their demonic plans for geo-political hegemony.

On the back of 9/11 came Libya, a country whose western and eastern borders were successfully secured through revolutions, a country whose eastern region had already been secured months in advance, a country invaded illegally by FUKUS Axis special forces, in which the FUKUS Axis illegally aided a group in an internal conflict, in which war crimes were committed, in which military hardware was deployed against civilian structures, in which the Gaddafi grandchildren were murdered in their home.

Why? Because Muammar al-Qathafi's plans for Africa were threatening the lobbies which control the FUKUS Axis. It was not for no reason that the Libyan leader was to receive a UN Humanitarian Prize in 2011.

The legacy of 9/11 is therefore its consequences: torture, rape, murder, illegal detention, war crimes, atrocities, sodomy, urination in food, sleep deprival, setting dogs on detainees, terrorism, ethnic cleansing, racism...the list goes on and on and on and reads like a shopping list for Satan.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is an insult to the victims of 9/11 and their families.

~

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

~

[Article copied verbatim under "Fair Use" from : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32418.htm ]

172 Comments

172 Comments


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[-] 13 points by Renneye (4141) 2 years ago

We need to heal. Healing starts when truth sees the light of day. THAT is when great things happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYyQcQSqpbI

[-] 6 points by Lokibro57 (-4) 2 years ago

I love Eva Cassidy. The record companies did not want to sign her because she refused to be pigeon-holed into singing one type of music. She only achieved international fame after her death. Here on this link, knowing that she is dying of cancer, she summons up all of her energy, and sings What A Wonderful World.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEBBGSgO16M

[-] 7 points by Renneye (4141) 2 years ago

I have Eva's final/good-bye concert on cd. Its hauntingly beautiful. I rarely get through it without shedding tears.

Every time I think I've heard everything by Eva...I end up finding another song. I found this one called "Wayfaring Stranger" last night....followed by Emmylou's version of it. They're different...yet equally beautiful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sDyE98AGzw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7kZrssy7KQ

[-] 5 points by Lokibro57 (-4) 2 years ago

Thanks. Eva Cassidy not only had a "hauntingly beautiful" voice, but she was also a person of tremendous courage, and principle. Very early this morning I lit a candle and listened to her sing What A Wonderful World. It would have been my Dad's 100th birthday. He too was an extraordinary person.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXU219b3Zdw

[-] 5 points by Renneye (4141) 2 years ago

That was very special. Thanks...and well worth my second viewing of it ^.~

During family gatherings...one of my favourite things to do is sit and listen (sometimes for hours) to the older members tell the stories of their youth. Our experiences seem to pale (maybe not for long) compared to theirs.

Your father clearly enriched your life....I just know I would have liked him.

The whole world needs to heal and unite...and music is "instrumental" in that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwvjTRGFU3o

[-] 4 points by Lokibro57 (-4) 2 years ago

Thanks for the kind words, and respite in reminding me that most of us are here for good reasons.

*"...From a distance

We all have enough

And no one is in need

And there are no guns, no bombs, and no disease

No hungry mouths to feed

From a distance

~We are instruments~

~Marching in a common band~

Playing songs of hope

Playing songs of peace

They are the songs of every man..."* ....Julie Gold

I have taken many of the qualities my Dad had, and passed them on to my children. "....Our experiences seem to pale (maybe not for long) compared to theirs." Considering that we are here, we may well both have the chance to add a positive rider onto our legacies.

Solidarity

[-] 6 points by Renneye (4141) 2 years ago

Lucky children they are.

Solidarity

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I forgot about that song........:)

Thanks. Nice version.

[-] 6 points by Renneye (4141) 2 years ago

My pleasure shooz.

Extraordinary Eva Cassidy (RIP) ~

A couple more..perhaps for later listening?...

People Get Ready ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8W9rPxxnP4

Chain of Fools ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRNleKBDCNw

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[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

building bombs 'til bunkers boil

getting paid for shell filled toil

if I am to work tomorrow

lobe the load on foreign soil


yep US only pays 41% of the total world military budget

World Military budget in Billions (percent total) by Nation

  • 1,630 World Total
  • 711 United States 41%
  • 143 China 8.2%
  • 71.9 Russia 4.1%
  • 62.7 United Kingdom 3.6 %
  • 62.5 France 3.6%
  • 54.5 Japan 3.3&
  • 48.2 Saudi Arabia 2.8%
  • 46.8 India 2.5%
  • 46.7 Germany 2.8%
  • 37.0 Italy 2.3%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures


Global Arms Sales By Supplier Nations

39% United States

18% Russia

8% France

7% United Kingdom

5% Germany

3% China

3% Italy

11% Other European

5% Others

http://www.globalissues.org/article/74/the-arms-trade-is-big-business#GlobalArmsSalesBySupplierNations


TOP 10 Arms Produces

Notes: An S denotes a subsidiary company. A dash (–) indicates that the company did not rank among the SIPRI Top 100 for 2009

  • Lockheed Martin USA 35,730 33,430 78
  • BAE Systems UK 32,880 32,540 95
  • Boeing USA 31,360 32,300 49
  • Northrop Grumman USA 28,150 27,000 81
  • General Dynamics USA 23,940 23,380 74
  • Raytheon USA 22,980 23,080 91
  • BAE Systems Inc. (BAE Systems, UK) USA 17,900 19,280 100
  • EADS Trans-European 16,360 15,930 27
  • Finmeccanica Italy 14,410 13,280 58 +L-3 Communications USA 13,070 13,010 83
  • United Technologies USA

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/mar/02/arms-sales-top-100-producers

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[-] 9 points by Renneye (4141) 2 years ago

War against Muslims started even before 9/11

9/11 Coup d’etat Triggered Pre-Planned War on Islam

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/05/14/241119/war-on-terror-war-on-muslims/

Press TV has interviewed Dr. Kevin Barrett, author of ‘Questioning the War on Terror’ about the orchestrated campaign against Islam since September 11th, 2001.

[-] 8 points by Renneye (4141) 2 years ago

Did JCS Chief Dempsey Just End the War on Islam?

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/05/10/did-jcs-chief-dempsey-just-end-the-war-on-islam/

But now, a cornerstone of the war on Islam – the brainwashing of US military personnel to hate, fear, and mass-murder people because they happen to be Muslim – has been removed by none other than General Martin Dempsey, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Mikey Weinstein of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation reports:

On Tuesday, April 24th, 2012, the nation’s top soldier, Chairman of the United States Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) General Martin Dempsey, initiated a truly seminal message. He finally generated the long-overdue, mandatory edict that all training and educational materials throughout the U.S. military must be immediately reviewed within one month’s time to ensure that no anti-Muslim or anti-Islam references or content remain. Henceforth, officers and enlisted members will no longer be taught and institutionally indoctrinated that “the United States is at war with Islam and we ought to just recognize that.”

In the elective class “Perspectives on Islam and Islamic Radicalism,” officers from all four branches of the military were indoctrinated with vile Islamophobic programs masquerading as “anti-terrorist” education. What JCS Chairman Gen. Dempsey seeks to investigate is a heinous curriculum of systemic, anti-Muslim hatred that has warped the cultural competence of United States service members, leading to grim results in combat theaters within which the U.S. has been engaged since 9/11. In 2012 alone there have been reports of bodies being urinated on by U.S. Marines, the proud and brazen display of the Nazi Waffen-SS banner by U.S. Marines, soldiers posing with corpses, and most insultingly, the burning of copies of the Qur’an at Bagram Air Field.

The long-overdue review of the appalling Islamophobic materials used to train our servicemen and servicewomen is a classic case of the proverbial closing of the barn door long after the farm animals have left. President Obama’s surprise visit to Afghanistan on Tuesday, May 1, 2012 starkly illustrated this fact. The ink had barely dried on the Strategic Partnership Agreement signed by himself and Afghan President Hamid Karzai before car bombs and gunfire rattled Kabul in a daring Taliban attack centered on the high-security Green Village compound.

In hindsight, the Department of Defense-sanctioned anti-Muslim training programs have proven to be a quintessentially formidable propaganda asset in the Taliban fight against the “Crusading” NATO forces. Indeed, they provide grist for the mill of regional resentment and strain alliances to a breaking point.

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[-] 8 points by Renneye (4141) 2 years ago

This article is a very diplomatic way to broach a very sensitive subject. Good call!

Whether you believe it was intentional or not (I do believe), there is the disturbing matter of the war indoctrination of our children that the exploitation of 9/11 is being used for, to usher in continual war .

Yesterday (Sept 11th), while I was driving my 9 year old daughter home from school, she told me that in her (grade 5) class, as a commemoration of 9/11, they were made to watch a youtube video of the horrific images, I'm sure we all can remember, of the towers burning and people jumping while flailing to their death. I remember seeing those images ONCE, then when they came on again and again, I had to turn my head.

I was so furious, I didn't know who's neck I was going to wring first. I vowed to call the board of education.

HOW, is that a commemoration? Why not images of flowers being laid at ground zero? I mean...despite the obvious hypocrisy...at least kids wouldn't get traumatized. When I was in school, a commemoration was images of poppies.

My daughter told me that as soon as she saw the person falling, she slightly turned her head and saw that the other kids were transfixed...eyes wide and shocked. How is this necessary?!

It is traumatic indoctrination via shock to justify to, and condition our young, further years of war and terror. This was called for by the board of ed. The teacher understood enough to run to the media player, while yelling "no, no, no."...but too late. Those images are seared on the psyches of our kids. Its a travesty of damage upon damage.

The war mongering must cease...NOW!!

Please talk to your kids. Its the perfect time for a discussion when things like this happen. I asked my daughter if the teacher played a video that showed the collapse of building 7? She said "What building 7"? as she jolted up in wonder.

She has now seen footage of the collapse (sans flailing bodies) of building 7.

She was very intrigued.

.

"Your Indoctrination"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fj6Qamu0JY&feature=plcp

.

[-] 3 points by podman73 (-652) 2 years ago

everyone needs to see exactly what happend......the truth is often ugly......but needs to be told, putting your head in the sand is not the answer.

[-] 6 points by Renneye (4141) 2 years ago

I don't know if its just me, but recently, there is this feeling that we're kind of reaching a saturation point where people are starting to be more open to the truth than ever before. Gives me hope.

[-] 1 points by podman73 (-652) 2 years ago

when you say truth do you mean only truth you agree with? after 9/11 war was sadly the only option, just like dec. 7 1941. Here is a fact some people dont want to admit it people think/know your weak they crush you; you cant be weak in this world. You dont want to be a bully either, its not an easy tightrope to walk.

[-] 5 points by Renneye (4141) 2 years ago

When I say truth...I mean organic truth. The kind you imagine when the clouds open up and you can see clear across the universe, with all the wisdoms it may behold.

What you describe here has unfortunately been the truth up until now. Its been the same M.O. for thousands of years.... oligarchal staged wars propped up by religious and racial division that have nothing to do with the real reasons for the violence and genocides the ruling elite perpetrate on its people.

By your standards...and apparent acceptance that this is the way it has to be because it has always been, we are doomed to perpetual war and utter failure as humans. At what point do we recognize, as the universe's children, that we can rise above this blood-soaked insanity, to get to a higher level of consciousness to what is a more humane way of living....for everyone?

[-] 1 points by podman73 (-652) 2 years ago

You believe there's nothing worth fighting for in this life I do. You seem closed to any idea other than your own that never turns out well, you seem extreme left in your post the prob. With extreme in any direction is that they never think they are crazy (and they are)

[-] 3 points by Renneye (4141) 2 years ago

Hmm...I guess you have the answer then. Keep posturing and bombing. World citizens/populations be damned. Bombs away.

[-] 1 points by podman73 (-652) 2 years ago

Like the old song says there's a time for everything Rather you belive it or not doesnt. Change it

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[-] -1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

Who is the picture of?

[-] 4 points by Renneye (4141) 2 years ago

It was some Swedish death metal band. I have it saved but I'm not going to look it up. It made me sick.

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[-] 4 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

meh

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[-] 8 points by Nevada1 (4829) 2 years ago

Thank you shadz for post.

Watched Explosive Evidence 9/11 Truth, again yesterday.

Regarding 9/11 which is more shocking, US government committing this extreme crime---or---the US government still getting away with this extreme crime after 11 years?

The whole world will continue to pay the price, until there is justice.

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Thanx 'Nev1' and consider that the '9/!! Coup d'Etat' underpins so much that has happened in the decade that has followed, that we who watch and wait continue to grope in the darkness for some semblance of rhyme, reason and rationale to the smoke and mirrors as conducted by sleight of hand 'in plane sight' !!!

verb. sat. sap. ...

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

So, re. 'Conspiracy Theories', do please consider the following :

a) When two or more people plan to commit a crime, there exists by definition - a 'conspiracy' and

b) Therefore any theory about who did it, or how it was done, is by definition - a 'conspiracy theory', so

c) The question is then not whether you are a conspiracy theorist - but for which conspiracy theory you find the evidence most compelling. Ergo :

''In a democracy, war must be subjected to questioning and debate. And not just on the comedy channel.'' Solidarity Nev1 in these strange but compelling times of a quickening to a reckoning !!

fiat lux ; fiat pax ; fiat justitia ...

[-] 4 points by Nevada1 (4829) 1 year ago

Hello shadz, Everyone need to see all this. The second article brought to mind the movie On The Beach, and the fourth one Hunger Games.

Yes, "Solidarity", as it is our most powerful defense mechanism.

[-] 7 points by ShadzSixtySix (1673) 2 months ago

9/11 and Salvador Allende are forever connected too & fyi Nev, please further consider :

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 3 points by Nevada1 (4829) 2 months ago

The date 9/11 seems to have great significance to TPTB. Thank you shadz for excellent post.

http://rense.com/general64/moss.htm

[-] 6 points by ShadzSixtySix (1673) 2 months ago

"The 9/11 lie has persisted for 13 years. Millions of Muslims have paid for this lie with their lives, the destruction of their families, and with their dislocation. Most Americans remain comfortable with the fact that their government has destroyed in whole or part seven countries based on a lie Washington told to cover up an inside job that launched the crazed neoconservatives’ drive for Washington’s World Empire.'' from :

Thanx very much for your link Nev1. It succeeded in jolting my brain. I may need a lay down very soon.

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (1777) 2 months ago

ISIS would not have organization unless the people supported it

[-] 4 points by ShadzSixtySix (1673) 2 months ago

The ''organization'' of ISIS and those who have ''supported'' it, are a whole list of US allies along with some of the disaffected Sunnis in Syria and Iraq & of course several thousand deluded international jihadis. The actual fighting contingent constitute a few thousand foreign fighters and the indigenous Syrian / Iraqi Sunni tribesmen but the money, training, arms, equipment are all from elsewhere. I'd request you to please read/watch this :

multum in parvo ...

[-] 3 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 1 year ago

That Guardian piece was really very insightful, especially the insinuation that both parties are in cahoots when it comes to really important issues. I have to say I really enjoy reading your links. For what it' s worth, thanks.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Glenn Greenwald's piece makes for a critical insight behind the deceitful and deceptive duplicity of the duopoly. Thank you for your very gracious comment, as it mitigates the weary sighing that sometimes ensues whilst doing the linking. As a tangential aside tho' not unconnected to events, I'll slide this your way here too : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35658.htm as Tyranny, War and Larceny make for a witch's brew of evil that alas we are all having to sup .. irrespective of where we live on Earth.

pax ...

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[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Dude, Chomsky is not infallible ! He can be wrong or mistaken sometimes !! It's within reason to think that he can't be right 100% of the time !!! He is a great man from whom I have learnt so much, just like many millions of others but we are allowed to disagree with his judgement sometimes. Even the author of the article is clear about his respect for Uncle Noam and his debt to him.

I'm not going to go through the arguments here for him again but did you actually get to read the article [ http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35595.htm ] ? I speed read both of your links but I'm not sure that I'm any the wiser though the 'moidorers' may merely have heard of the man's squillions without knowing anything else about him as folk with money in The U$A aren't always shy about flaunting their lucre. I do hope that the same confusion doesn't apply if you read my link and explore the references ;-)

pax et lux ...

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Between you and me ZD - this shit is waay bigger than just the CIfknA !!! What they may or may not do is both moot and academic !! With the stakes so incredibly high, the muthrfkrs are doubling down every time and incredulity is their biggest ally - whoeverthefk they are ! Finally, please try to calmly consider :

verb. sat. sap. ...

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[-] -3 points by DodiKolifarThe3rd (-1) 1 year ago

Chomsky is quite right in attacking lame conspiracy theories. They are an utter waste of time because they have no evidence to back them up. They are just mountains of assumptions used to accuse people without evidence. They are the biggest danger in America today.

The US government does so many things that are wrong and that we know about, it's ridiculous to remain focused on conspiracy theories we have no evidence for. Take the Snowden case. We should be all over this. Instead, people will continue to talk about 911 Truth. It's ridiculous. A complete distraction from the real problems.

Chomsky is quite right when he says 911 Truth is a waste of time. Like he says - "Who cares?". So what if the government planned it. What would that change. We already know many many things the government does wrong, things we have evidence for. We should concentrate on those instead of wasting time with paranoid delusions.

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[-] -1 points by DodiKolifarThe3rd (-1) 1 year ago

Unsurprisingly, you fail to understand the definition of conspiracy theory.

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

No doubt you can illuminate us on that matter ! Also do consider :

e tenebris ...

[-] -1 points by DodiKolifarThe3rd (-1) 1 year ago

"conspiracy theory" is an English expression. Like the expression "hot dog" it can't be understood by simply juxtaposing the definition of both words.

A conspiracy theory is a specific way at looking at an event. A black and white way. It starts by painting the government or some other form of power as 100% evil, and the populace as 100% good. This is the framework from which it operates. Then, it assumes an answer to why the event was cause, and works backwards to find evidence for that answer. It's the opposite of good journalism and scientific work. Other trademarks are the use of logical fallacies, like quote mining. Examples of conspiracy theories are 9/11 Truth, big foot, reptilian overlords, hollow earth, Diana's murder, etc...

Conspiracy theories are dangerous because they blur the line between reality and fiction. Also, they promote the idea of accusing people before we have evidence of their guilt. This is extremely dangerous.

We should promote proper forms of journalism which rests upon finding evidence before making claims. A proper journalist does not publish his material if he only has vague assumptions based on logical fallacies. He works very hard to find evidence before accusing others of wrong. This is how we should investigate.

Scholars contrast conspiracy theories with proper forms of research known has historical analysis or investigative journalism.

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[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Are you happy with the 'Official Conspiracy Theory' re. 9/!! ?

ad iudicium ...

[-] 1 points by DodiKolifarThe3rd (-1) 1 year ago

First, the official report is not a conspiracy theory. It works in a very different way. Conspiracy theories go against official reports, that is, they don't build a case based on evidence, but instead try to find holes in the main explanation. Without having an official report first, they could not work.

World events are extremely complicated. You'll never know exactly what happened. The official report is the best explanation we have. It covers many bases, although it doesn't cover all of them. The fact that the terrorists responsible for these actions also admitted guilt and caused many other acts of terrorism is telling.

That being said, whether one finds the original report satisfying or not doesn't mean anything. The 911 conspiracy theories don't suddenly become more true if you don't believe in the original explanation. They do to conspiracy theorists, because, like I said, they build their case on the holes they find in the original theory. So, if they think there are many holes, they think this makes their theories more true. It doesn't. A theory should be based on evidence, and, so far, conspiracy theorists have none of that.

In the end, after 12 years of "research", 911 conspiracy theories have been beheaded and debunked time and time again. What they are is simply bad research. And, very boring. They are needless distractions. We should put them aside because they lead to nowhere.

If someone wants to research this event some more, that's fine by me. However, that someone should only publish his or her findings when they have strong evidence that would hold in court. Publishing every little idea concerning 911 is an utter waste of time, and it's boring.

What we should do is concentrate on the many wrongs we know the government did. Just lately, the Snowden case revealed a lot. Unfortunately, Americans don't like truth and reality. They like paranoid fantasies. So, even though Snowden uncovered a real problem we should talk about, most Americans will still prefer to come up with more and more wild fantasies to "explain" 911. Very sad indeed.

If I were you, I would stay away from conspiracy theory websites and turn off the Alex Jones radio show. You would be better off listening to and reading proper scholars who actually do proper investigative work.


As a side note, I find it extremely funny how 911 Truthers give some much power to Mr. Bush. To think that he and his cabinet could have orchestrated such a conspiracy, and have kept the mouths of the thousands of people involved shut is just plain ridiculous. Mr. Bush really isn't that smart or powerful. He's basically a redneck.


Unfortunately, Americans are quite dumb, do conspiracy theories are here to stay. They have become a multi-million dollar industry. Shows from Alex Jones and Jesse Ventura have taken over the nation. Americans like to be entertained! They like to hear fantastic stories, not true ones.

[-] 5 points by itsmyblood (10) 1 year ago

which conspiracy are you referring to? jfk, mlk, rfk, malcom x, ufos, 9-11, illuminati? exactly which one is false and please detail how the official discredited story is true.

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[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

LOLOL Trashy re. ''The official report is the best explanation we have.'' !!! I'm really laughing out so loud here as to have my visiting li'l nephew come & ask me, what's so funny Unc ?!! You really love to try to debate this matter but your abject inability to contest just the core WTC, Building 7 issue - is really the key to seeing through and beyond your pov & The Official 9/!! Commission Report's way of dealing with that was to Just NOT Mention WTC 7 At All either !

Tho' I occasionally touch on 9/!!, this is my only substantive foray on the matter and this thread stands or falls by itself so I'll encourage readers & u to peruse it. The forum-post and OP is at a tangent to the matter. However, your pro-TPTB position is really well exposed in your attempts to engage here. You're doing nothing here other than giving me more opportunity to lay down info. links though you have in the past tried to deface this thread and thus, I append here :

Your raising of the matter of Edward Snowden here is however actually appreciated. When a 'Big Lie' is employed by TPTB, they have no option other to keep doubling down again and again and the paranoid ones are TPTB Trashy - NOT the rest of us ! Btw your 'Mr. Bush' is a red herring and not a ''redneck'' as that's only a reflection of your own neo-feudalist class snobbery, lol.Keep bumping my thread Trashy as I've more to say & repeat but I want to read a book with my nephew now so do vote yourself up with your bots now as it will give you a break from down voting The 99% centric comments from bw for example ;-)

ne quid nimis ....

[-] 3 points by JackHall (413) 1 year ago

The 9/11 investigations are held in check by our government's refusal to turn over evidence such as video of whatever hit the Pentagon on 9/11/2001.

List of suspects who had access to the World Trade Center support columns and the opportunity to install equipment that caused controlled demolitions.

Who gave the orders to remove the entire crime scene?

Why no one has been court-martialed for not scrambling the Air Force interceptors.

Why the US President wasn't impeached when no WMDs were found in Iraq.

It's as if the investigators are Munchkins, Dorothy and Toto, Scarecrow, Tin Man and Cowardly Lion, while Oz the great and terrible, Wizard of Oz is the head of federal, state and local governments suppressing and thwarting a new investigation for the twelve years since (and counting).

[-] 6 points by summerbummer (-33) 1 year ago

We have been in Oz a lot longer than 12 years, Toto,

[-] 7 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Indeed we have.

The real issue (to my mind) is the fear factor.

It's like the big bully at school that everyone grudgingly says hi to, but secretly despises, and fantasises about smacking down.

How the fuck did we let things get to this point in time?

When the big bully is calling our shots, and we don't know what the fuck we can do about it?

[-] 8 points by gnomunny (6885) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

"How the fuck did we let things get to this point in time?"

They snuck up on us while we were watching American Idol. They're some devious bastards, B.

If it wasn't for the internet, most of us would still be in the dark.

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[-] 6 points by elf3 (2950) 2 months ago

9/11 has turned into a giant commercial day for the military and government profiteers. Today they are out in forces making rounds from talk show to talk show to "news stations" (should properly be called advertising outlets) invading our living rooms and cars with their propaganda of fear, safety, and justification. This is about profit...this is about the richest people in society profiting in the most sickening way possible...putting their luxury driven lifestyles above human life. This is about a president elected on the hopes of the people that he would not sell out to the souless monsters and sociopaths, bullies, and their toady lap dogs among us.... scarcely using his platform but to speak out on behalf of psycopaths driven to bully those with moral compasses into submission, compliance, and manufactured consent. 9/11 make no mistake is a business my friends; The business of control, profits, and the outright take- over of our democracy. The deaths of our fellow civilians became a corporate wet dream. And when we see this behavior and fail to write about it, call them on their bullshit and phony despair, and abuse of our soldiers and the colonization and takeover of not only of individual privacy but of foreign lands to be exploited by private enterprise...we have failed our fellow citizens and we have failed at being free.

[-] 6 points by trashyharry (3115) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

Great business model.Sell matches and gasoline to crazed arsonists.Make money by selling firefighting supplies and equipment.Collect the insurance money.Make money off the medical care and funerals of the victims.Raise donations for rebuilding and for the victims,and steal it.Charge the people who want to rebuild a horrific-gouge price for building materials and services.Moan and Lament Man's Inhumanity to Man in the most annoying,public way possible.Repeat the whole sequence.Forever.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Isn't that the current US/MIC foreign policy?

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3115) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

"It's old,but it's Good."

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

So says Cheney - so it is written.

[-] 4 points by trashyharry (3115) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

If I had 3 wishes,one of them would be that Cheney,a most wicked,evil,bogus and decrepit Junkpile of a man,get what he really deserves.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Shot in the face by a banker?

Just for starters.

[-] 4 points by trashyharry (3115) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

Tried for murder and sentenced to 25-life.Sentence to be served in General Population at Attica.New York does have the Death Penalty,but the possibility of it actually being carried out is not likely.We have Death Penalty,so there must be a NY State Death Row.I don't know where it is,or if anybody is currently on it.As for the split bid,I'm fairly certain there is no Life Without in this state.We solve that problem by never granting parole to Murderers.I admit he more deserves the Death Penalty in a state like Oklahoma,but even fantasies have limits.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

If it were a simple matter of karma - perhaps he would get run over by a tanker truck hauling toxic waste.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3115) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

A debate about execution methods could go on until we run out of ideas..What is called for is A Fate Worse than Death in this case-for 2 reasons.1)The Death Penalty is wrong and nobody should be forced to submit to it,even Dick Cheney 2)It would take too much effort to come up with something new-It's all been done.I like your idea,but the simple punishment of solitary confinement for life is probably the worst punishment of all.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

OH - one point of leniency - as total lack of any sort of contact with the outside world - could be considered inhuman - inhumane. Embed a flat-screen TV into the wall behind a plate of unbreakable plexiglass - and show non-stop commercials 24/7/365.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Agree - part of the process of him going into prison for life without possibility of parole - would be for him to go through the Bernie Madoff process of being stripped of everything he owns - on-shore and off-shore.

And may he only be the very 1st of a long list to enter the process at the same time.

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3115) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

People who have experienced solitary say it's The Worst.The Brits did it to one of my family members who got arrested after the Easter Rising in '16.He was transformed from the best diagnostician of pediatric disease in Europe into a raving maniac in less than 4 years.Shortly before his death.he was found crawling around on the floor of his cell chewing broken glass while repeating over and over:"A pound of it will do you no harm..."

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

So then - on the leniency suggestion? All commercials - all the time - with random signal loss and static while played at barely audible volume - would be a humane thing to permit.

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3115) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

Hm.DK is trying to get a Rise outta me.Otay-combine that with a strong odor of nail polish remover and a faint,persistent scratching sound that starts and stops at random intervals and that'l be just about Square.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

lol - that sounds good. How about lighting that has a tendency to strobe and go dim or very bright and make a buzzing noise?

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (4829) 2 months ago

Repo the transplanted heart, that he did not deserve.

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3115) from Waterville, NY 2 months ago

I think he has all types of gear in his chest cavity as well-defibrillators,pacemakers,stints and so forth.Repo all of it.

[-] 3 points by Nevada1 (4829) 2 months ago

Would make a great forum post.

[-] 6 points by ShadzSixtySix (1673) 1 month ago

I agree Nev1, elf's comment is second to none on this thread. I didn't see it until very recently as I don't get notifiers for ''shad66'' any longer. elf's ''failed at being free'', is such a strong line that it jars the mind.

pax nunc ...

[-] 6 points by beautifulworld (22236) 2 years ago

Thanks for sharing this great piece. These are hard truths but we must face them. What we need to do is to change from being a fear-based society to a love-based society.

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Yes. Totally & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FotCW5OIFZc :-)

Further, please also see :

"The Method to the Post 9/11 Madness", by David Swanson :

"The 11th Anniversary of 9/11", by Paul Craig Roberts :

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 7 points by beautifulworld (22236) 2 years ago

Thanks, I guess.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

You are welcome & I'm sorry to have to copy this link for you too :

fiat lux ...

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Re. ''The Other 9/11'' & the start of The Neoliberal Nightmare we're all in :

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] -3 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

Sorry, this is bs. You need to take it to Alex Jones.

[-] 7 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Hmmm & "Bush Insider Says 911 Was An Inside Job" :

Morgan O. Reynolds was a professor emeritus at Texas A&M University and former director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis headquartered in Dallas, TX.

He served as chief economist for the United States Department of Labor during 2001--2002, George W. Bush's first term. In 2005, he gained public attention as the first prominent government official to publicly claim that 9/11 was an inside job, and is a member of Scholars for 9/11 Truth.

I'll tell you right now how this will work out - you reply & I will keep laying it down - HARD ! Your move !!

spero ...

[-] 2 points by LeanMartin (3) 1 year ago

It may very well have been an inside job. If so, it began during Clinton. Not surprising it would cross a dem and rep admin. Our govt is corrupt and the dem/rep paradigm is smoke and mirrors for the masses

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

I will not promise to carry on with this ludicrous subject indefinitely. What you presented, with the video, is someone who didn't like Bush. (Guess what? Neither do I) So he's an economist. Who could be more qualified than an economist to determine the scientific realities of what happened. What's even better, he's a "free market" economist. We all know how clear headed those guys are. He presents no evidence of anything, employs the "appeal to popularity" fallacy. A lot of people think it's an inside job, on the internet, so it must be so. And of course, there's Charlie Sheen. Who can argue against the great intellect of Charlie Sheen. The fact that Bush was or is psychopathic enough to do something doesn't mean he did it.

[-] 7 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Ok, appeal to his motives but dare you watch : "9/11 - Explosive Evidence - Experts Speak Out" ? :

Over 40 experts in high-rise architecture ; structural engineering ; metallurgy ; chemistry ; physics ; explosives and controlled demolition, share their professional expertise and insights about the events of 9/11. Additionally, 8 psychological experts discuss why proving controlled demolition of the three World Trade Center skyscrapers can be so difficult for individuals to accept.

Look - it's difficult, I know. I was ill and sleepless for a week as the veil was lifted from my eyes too. I do appreciate the discombobulation, pain and sense of bereft dislocation but better that than live a lie, imo !

I'm sorry pal if any of this stuff is new to you - just strap in and hold on.

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

No, none of this is new. Lets start with this, since this little bunch were big on repeating and repeating and repeating, the free fall nonsense regarding building 7, as if repeating it made it less false. (a typical propaganda ploy).Explain this photo to me. http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm caveat emptor

[-] 7 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I gave you all that and you come back asking for an explanation for one photo ! It looks like a destroyed building collapsing to the ground to me. Are you really being serious - or are you trying to back me up in a reverse-psychological and paradoxical way ?!

Let's get back to basics seeing as though physics is not your strong point & seeing as though we're now asking questions of each other : What is your explanation for WTC Building 7 ? Why were there NO mentions of what happened to it in The Official 9/!! Commission Report ? While we are at it, have you ever seen any evidence of an aeroplane at The Pentagon ?

Finally, re. Shanksville additionally and almost as an aside :

minima maxima sunt ...

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

A bit paranoid, aren't we? "...back me up in a reverse-psychological way?" How verbose. No, just the facts. I try not to go overly ad hominem, so to your "physics is not your strong point"- touche' should suffice. Why did building 7 not get mentioned originally, I don't know. Does that support any of the claims made in the videos? No. Evidence of a plane at the pentagon? Here it is.http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/index.html#parts The photo shown previously unequivocally debunks the "free fall theories presented by so many "Truthers". That is, if your not too "physics challenged".

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I didn't think I was being paranoid - but that doesn't mean that 'They' aren't out to get me, lol. I suspect that we aren't having any meeting of minds here because yours was made up for you some time ago.

Thus, I submit a 9/!! 'Meme-Equation' :

  • 9/!! - NORAD + (WTC 1 + WTC 2) + {WTC 7 x WTF!!!} + [Pentagon - Plane + GlobalHawk / CruiseMissile] + UA93 - C.S.I. = Coup d'Etat ... q.e.d !!!

Some relevant links :

a) http://9-11cc.org/ ;

b) http://stj911.org/ ;

c) http://911truth.org/ ;

d) http://911scholars.org/ ;

e) http://pilotsfor911truth.org/ ;

f.) http://scientistsfor911truth.org/ ;

g) http://firefightersfor911truth.org/ ;

h) http://rememberbuilding7.org/10/ ;

i.) http://www.ae911truth.org/index.php &

j.) http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/category/911/ .

Thank-you for all of your important contributions here.

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

True, I have, barring any additional evidence that I can consider credible, made my mind up. I have looked into this issue quite extensively in the past. I have listened to the assertions of "truthers", and judged them to be non-credible. I'm sure you are aware of Ockhams razor. I'm also convinced that this occurrence was used, "Shock Doctrine" style to further the ends of the Bush admin. Frankly, I'm surprised that this is something that you have attached yourself to, considering the demonstrated intelligence of the things you post here. so I return your words. Thank you for your contributions as well.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

No worries. We all have crosses to bear. No hard feelings from me. Take care, stay well, stay aware !!!

fiat lux ; fiat pax ; fiat justitia ...

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[+] -7 points by DrSteinWithaker (-17) 2 years ago

Fear-based societies are created by conspiracy theory delusions.

[-] 4 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

using the attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon as an excuse to invade Iraq is an insult to the families of the dead

[-] -3 points by DrSteinWithaker (-17) 2 years ago

Making up 911 conspiracy theories to sell books is an insult to the families of the dead, and the dead themselves.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

true but congress and bush wanted a piece of Iraq so they lied about it's connection to 911

[-] -3 points by DrSteinWithaker (-17) 2 years ago

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

huh?

[-] -3 points by DrSteinWithaker (-17) 2 years ago

It's not because Bush and friends profited from the Islamic terrorist attack that conspiracy theorists should to. Otherwise put, conspiracy theorists are not excused from insulting families of the dead, and the dead themselves by profiting from 911 just because Bush and friends also profited.

[-] 4 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

Bush and Congress conducted a conspiracy

con·spir·a·cy/kənˈspirəsē/ Noun:

A secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.
The action of plotting or conspiring.
[-] -3 points by DrSteinWithaker (-17) 2 years ago

Two wrongs don't make a right.

911 Truthers are the cancer of modern American critical thought.

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

indeed

we have little control over our own government

[-] -3 points by DrSteinWithaker (-17) 2 years ago

That's why you shouldn't vote and take part in OWS protests. Join my team: The Crew For OWS Facuality AKA Bridge To The Ground, we have an ongoing fight against Partisan Powers and Conspiracy Crusaders.

DKAtoday, the Obama lover and leader of Partisan Powers got Odin, April, and I banned. We need help and your power. Join us before it's too late. Partisan Powers are trying to take this forum and turn it into an Obama campaign. Jart has fallen prey to their tactics, she has become softer than melted butter.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Stop recruiting & co-opting established posters 'Tr@ashyTrollTyrant" !!

caveat emptor ...

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[-] 6 points by Renneye (4141) 2 years ago

I'm in no fucking mood trashy!! YOU PIECE OF SHIT!!!! Don't like it, then quit fucking bumping it! PSYCHOPATH!! Got any more death metal pics you wanna send me?!?! Creep!!!!!!!

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[-] 4 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 1 year ago

The enormous increase in power of the administration/cia/fbi/etc. is a direct result of creating fear that another attack might happen. People die every day from bad food, bad medicine, no medicine or health care, preventable explosions, storms, and, of course, each other. To give up any of our freedom to avoid another terrorist attack when we do nothing to stop these other unnecessary deaths, makes no sense. And, of course, spending many more lives in war every single day makes the attacks on 9/11 successful.

[-] 3 points by turbocharger (1762) 1 month ago

The drama continues... They hate us for our freedums...

[-] 3 points by Nevada1 (4829) 1 year ago

Hi shadz, Thank you for good article.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

'The cost paid by American troops and taxpayers is extreme. Secretary of Veteran Affairs Erik Shinseki reported in November 2009 that “more veterans have committed suicide since 2001 than we have lost on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan.” Many thousands of [US] troops have suffered amputations and traumatic brain injuries. At the Marine Corps War College Jim Lacey calculated that the annual cost of the Afghan war was $1.5 billion for each al-Qaeda member in Afghanistan. Many US and coalition troops paid with their lives for every one al-Qaeda member killed. On no basis has the war ever made sense.

''Washington’s wars have destroyed the favorable image of the United States created over the decades of the cold war. No longer the hope of mankind, the US today is viewed as a threat whose government cannot be trusted.'' from :

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 4 points by Nevada1 (4829) 1 year ago

The current heating up of the Syria issue, coinciding with the launch of ReThink9/11, is the typical deception ploy of the USG/TPTB.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

"We Are at War : The War on Terror exploits the tragedy of September 11 for the benefit of a very few.", by Johnny Barber :

Syria is a little more than mere distraction though, it's part of a much wider plan of imperial hegemony. From the book of the same name, 'The Crisis of Civilization' is a brilliant remix documentary feature film which investigates how global crises like ecological disaster, financial meltdown, dwindling oil reserves, terrorism and food shortages are converging symptoms of a single, failed global system. I emphatically assure all readers that it will be time very well spent and you won't forget viewing it.

Hope you can access a high speed link to view this because it will be well worth any trouble and time taken to do so.

fiat lux ...

[-] 3 points by Nevada1 (4829) 1 year ago

Call reps in DC----Real 9/11 Investigation.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Investigation ?! Yep, good idea and perhaps we can set a precedent and maybe possibly investigate (or not, lol) why your forum-post was shadow-banned, as evidenced here :

pax ...

[-] 3 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Imagine, 2970 death certificates with the wrong cause of death, all to conduct treason.

http://algoxy.com/conc/fema_deception.html

[-] 3 points by TheRoot (94) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Excellent post.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Ground Zero Redux", by Pepe Escobar :

Only The Future Matters but the present is mired in the past. Thanx 'TR' . ~*~ .

respice ; adspice ; prospice ...

[-] 2 points by Dionysus (-16) from Owings Mills, MD 2 years ago

I was in NY, on the East River that September morning. I had just finished remarking to a co-worker what a beautiful day it was. We turned around to see smoke billowing out of one of the WTC towers. I suspected it was a terrorist attack, and I knew that the world as we know it would be changing dramatically, but i never could have guessed to the enormous extent that it has.

I taped a lot of the coverage of the news that day, but in all the years that have passed, I have never had the urge to view it again. Although for different reasons, I am not a conspiracy theorist, I do believe that 9/11 was used as a opportunistic 'launching pad' to carry on a nefarious Empire agenda.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Friend - I'm sorry to say that 'The Definitive CONspiracy Theory' is 'The Official Version', in my opinion !! The phrase 'Conspiracy Theory' has undergone an Orwellian Redefinition and thus please consider that “conspiracy theory”, now no longer means any events that are explained by a conspiracy. Instead, now it currently means an explanation - or even a fact, that is somehow out of step with the government’s own explanation and that of its MSM pimps and whores.

Thus, in other words - as any truth might become increasingly uncomfortable for government and its Ministry of Propaganda, any new 'truth' is now redefined as "conspiracy theory", by which is meant absurd and laughable explanations that we ought to apparently ignore. In other words, 'the truth' of the event was unacceptable to the authorities and to the Ministry of Propaganda that represents The Interests of The Authorities & TPTB.

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] 4 points by Dionysus (-16) from Owings Mills, MD 2 years ago

Yes agreed, to say that "I am not a conspiracy theorists" is false. It is just I like so many other people, I do not want to confront the hard truths. To seek the truth alone, or with only a few others is a daunting task, but it is a courageous one. In any event, yes it is a sign of a lack of mettle on my part.

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Re. ''burn a Koran'' - why would that be a good idea ZD and what's the relevance ?!!! Btw - which ''this article'' ?!! The OP or http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35670.htm ?! Clarification pls & :

ad iudicium ...

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[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Your 'Koran burning' experiment may indeed prove what you already surmise - but to what end ?! Right wing fuckwittery knows no national or religious or geographic boundary but what good will lining up with Pastor Terry Jones of Gainesville, Fla. do ?!! How would burning The Tanakh or The New Testament do any good or go down with anyone who set store by them ?!!! Btw ZD - two entire planes disappeared & :

Re. the last link - the Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter Dana Priest, traces the journey from 9/11 to the Marathon bombings and investigates the secret history of the 12-year battle against "terrorism". I just watched this recently and thoroughly recommend it to you - but do balance it with a nice long walk and some nature appreciation and / or a piece of music :

fiat lux et fiat pax ...

[-] 1 points by RobertHod (1) 1 year ago

9-11 psyops hijacked the truth movement with abridged free speech on the ground, in videos, and web forums.

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[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"We Are at War : The War on Terror exploits the tragedy of September 11 for the benefit of a very few.", by Johnny Barber :

“We are at War. Somebody is Going to Pay.” (George W. Bush, Sept 11th, 2001)

What has happened has happened - there's NO going back. Someone I love & deeply respect recently said to me that she didn't think that we'd ever get to The Truth of 9/!! & have come to see this too. We all have positions that are maybe unpalatable to others - here's hoping that we can keep minds open and hearts soft because 'stone-hearted ; closed minded s.o.b.'s are a pain in everyone's (..x..).

I too spent years believing what I was told & the process of shifting my perceptions and consciousness was long, very hard and really rather painful.

pax et lux ; nunc et semper ; hic et ubique .

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I kinda want to let the matter go now but these buildings were massively over engineered to take the huge forces of hurricanes etc. There were fires burning for approximately an hour each & then later 3 Towers had massive & total systems failure & disintegrated !!!

Fires are the given cause for this. It has never happened before or since. IF such a thing can happen - then building codes all around the world are BS & need to be amended. Then there is WTC Bldg. 7 of course. I didn't even know about that until 2004 & I have never gotten over "TheWTF?!" factor, sigh.

pax ...

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[-] 1 points by podman73 (-652) 2 years ago

jet fuel burns much much hotter than diesel. Zen i have watched these forums for some time and i disagree with you 98% of the time but you are right on this one.

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[-] -1 points by podman73 (-652) 2 years ago

Or a more likely answer is that covet stupidity and do not. Are how wrong you are ...only a retard thinks he's always right.

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[-] -1 points by podman73 (-652) 2 years ago

I am conservative I make no bones about it. You must be on crack to think your numbers are that good. As for the few times I agreed with you well the sun shines on a dogs ass every now and then doesn't it

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[+] -4 points by DarkLordOfTruth (-43) 1 year ago

It's truly surprising that someone of your intelligence is fooled by the childlike logical fallacies of 911 Truthers. I thought you would have been sharper. Perhaps you are deluded.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The LoneStranger get to boring 4 U? Had to start another sock?

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

I agree. The facts are here. http://www.debunking911.com/index.html

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Thanx for your necessary balancing item. As you'll see from the hysterical spamming of this thread by our resident house troll - 9/!! evokes deep, visceral reactions which can by-pass rhyme, reason and rationality - perhaps even my own, lol. The matter takes on 'near religious' fervour in some and like religion some things become a question of faith & belief - on both sides.

Again - what has happened has happened - there's NO going back. Someone I love and deeply respect recently said to me that she didn't think that we'd ever get to The Truth of 9/!! & I have come to see this too but I'm sorry to say that 'The Definitive CONspiracy Theory' is 'The Official Version', in my opinion !!

However, whatever lies behind that fateful day - we are all now in its continued aftermath. The 'fallout' has been falling out for over a decade now and it still continues to do so.

respice ; adspice ; prospice ...

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

I agree, this issue takes on a religious fervor.(notice.I left out the modifier "near") It is for this reason that I will only go so far in trying to make my point of view known and then "let it be". We know, religious discussions tend to be endless, and are not about facts. I appreciate your non-emotional, non-hysterical adult response. I think this sort of idea becomes more believable than it might otherwise be, because we know our so-called leaders have, and do lie to us. That said, to slightly modify Freud's original intent with the Phrase;"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar".

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[-] 3 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

I profit? Hows that, "doctor". I would think a "doctor" would be able to read. I will re-post the link that I posted earlier in this thread, DEBUNKING, "truthers. Pay attention. http://www.debunking911.com/index.html

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[-] 4 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

Does your mommy know your on her computer?

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[-] 4 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

So, to your level of intellect, when I post a link, debunking the conspiracy theories, that is selling conspiracy theories. Brilliant.

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[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

provide a link

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[-] 4 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

Good luck with that.

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[-] 4 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

I prefer presenting factual truth, to infantile behavior.

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[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

'Trashy' - from your response on :

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[-] -1 points by DrSteinWithaker (-34) 16 minutes ago

You profit from the dead. Your delusions lead to the most despicable actions. Take your medication, there's no need to live in the clutches of schizophrenia.

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'Trashy' : Your projection of your own self-evident psychopathology - is the most interesting aspect of your words here. Your ridiculous accusations and deep desire to keep bumping this thread has all the indications of delusionary state and obsessive compulsive behaviour. Talk of meds is a further sign and mirror into your own reality. Your multiple personalities are unravelling & I even feel kind of sorry for you.

cura te ipsum ...

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[-] -3 points by podman73 (-652) 2 years ago

for you to think there is no threat at all shows the extreme other side of the issue.......putting your head in the sand is just as bad as thinking everyone is out to get you.....

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I have NO idea WTF you are on about. Threat ? What threat ? To who ?

ad iudicium ...

[-] -3 points by podman73 (-652) 2 years ago

Like I said your head in the sand

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

My "head is in the sand", huh ? But yours is far up you (..x..) - so ok, we're kinda even ... though I can at least get mine out !!!

verum ex absurdo ...

[-] -2 points by podman73 (-652) 2 years ago

It wouldn't do you any good you. Life is hard; it's even harder when your stupid...you are stupid

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Prove It Dumbo !!!

et temet nosce ...

[-] -1 points by podman73 (-652) 2 years ago

You actually just did for me.

[-] 6 points by beautifulworld (22236) 2 years ago

Where did Ali go? Oh, you went to the other computer for a second! Very impressive computer usage. You are quite skilled.

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[-] -3 points by alva (-442) 2 years ago

care to explain the Feb. 1993 attack on the world trade center, done by muslims with a car bomb?

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Nope. You go do that & report back 'asap'. Thanx.

fiat lux ...

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[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I looks better with tired eyes

It's a face of Marylin

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[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

one thread

let it go

or not

I posted on it many times

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[-] 0 points by Rickyrab (8) 2 years ago

I wonder what the Occupiers think of 9/11, particularly the Occupiers who were at Liberty/Zuccotti Park, on the edge of ground zero.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

'T_T-Bot' : Why do you keep bumping this thread ?

temet nosce ...

[-] -1 points by Rickyrab (8) 2 years ago

Um, this was my first comment on this thread.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Comment # 101 = Which "my" ?!

multum in parvo ...

[-] 1 points by Rickyrab (8) 2 years ago

I (Rickyrab) had only made one comment before you replied that I "kept bumping" this thread. Now it's three comments, two of which were responses to your comments.

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[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago
[-] -3 points by revolutionman (-106) from Kentland, IN 11 months ago

Good article. Here is a complete crack of the case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6bPwZJ1ZO8

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 months ago

Q : Re. Jesse Ventura, why are you pushing that line here 'Trashy', especially as you sprout your usual wannabe : agenda-setter ; language dictator ; pseudo-empirical, drivel below as ''jennifer'' ?!!!

A : Because you're bending over backwards and turning yourself inside out, madly trying to contort your damaged brain so as to burn all sides & both ends of your twisted - 'CONcern Troll' candle !!

CONclusion : You're an evil, fecking conniving eedjut & out to co-opt and neuter the forum !

Better off listening here :

ad iudicium ...

[-] -3 points by revolutionman (-106) from Kentland, IN 10 months ago

Who is Trashy? You keep saying I'm him. I'm not. And now you accuse me of being jennifer too?

[+] -4 points by jennifer (-67) from Allentown, PA 11 months ago

More conspiracy theory mumbo jumbo. How can people even believe this crap after 12 years of debunking? How can "educated" people be so gullible? We no longer live in 1600 when people believed in all sorts of nonsense and fairy tales! This is modern times where science has been developed. We use logical thinking based on evidence. What's up with this complete nonsense. Why are people so dumb and gullible in 2013?

Such ridiculous crap should be retracted from the forum. It is against forum rule #2, and against all decent serious thought.

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[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

The Walls Came Down by The Call (1983)

.

.

.

.

building bombs 'til bunkers boil

getting paid for shell filled toil

if I am to work tomorrow

lobe the load on foreign soil


yep US only pays 41% of the total world military budget

World Military budget in Billions (percent total) by Nation

  • 1,630 World Total
  • 711 United States 41%
  • 143 China 8.2%
  • 71.9 Russia 4.1%
  • 62.7 United Kingdom 3.6 %
  • 62.5 France 3.6%
  • 54.5 Japan 3.3&
  • 48.2 Saudi Arabia 2.8%
  • 46.8 India 2.5%
  • 46.7 Germany 2.8%
  • 37.0 Italy 2.3%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures


Global Arms Sales By Supplier Nations

39% United States

18% Russia

8% France

7% United Kingdom

5% Germany

3% China

3% Italy

11% Other European

5% Others

http://www.globalissues.org/article/74/the-arms-trade-is-big-business#GlobalArmsSalesBySupplierNations


TOP 10 Arms Produces

Notes: An S denotes a subsidiary company. A dash (–) indicates that the company did not rank among the SIPRI Top 100 for 2009

  • Lockheed Martin USA 35,730 33,430 78
  • BAE Systems UK 32,880 32,540 95
  • Boeing USA 31,360 32,300 49
  • Northrop Grumman USA 28,150 27,000 81
  • General Dynamics USA 23,940 23,380 74
  • Raytheon USA 22,980 23,080 91
  • BAE Systems Inc. (BAE Systems, UK) USA 17,900 19,280 100
  • EADS Trans-European 16,360 15,930 27
  • Finmeccanica Italy 14,410 13,280 58 +L-3 Communications USA 13,070 13,010 83
  • United Technologies USA

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/mar/02/arms-sales-top-100-producers