This Is What Democracy Looks Like: Huge General Assembly in Progress at Liberty Square
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 15, 2011, 8:40 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
The feeling here at Liberty Square tonight is the feeling of a movement that is rising, building, and making headway.
Following the 1am eviction of Liberty Square early this morning and a long day of legal wrangling, the park was reoccupied late this afternoon. This evening, just after 7pm, the first General Assembly at the reoccupied park began. Using our 'people's mic', we declared together:
"They showed us their power. And we're showing them ours."
We are here because we believe a better world is possible. We are willing to endure mistreatment, if by doing so we can help re-enfranchise the 99% and reclaim our democracy from the stranglehold of Wall Street and the top one percent.
We will push back against billionaire Michael Bloomberg and any politician who wantonly tramples on proud American freedoms: freedom of the press, freedom of speech, and the freedom of Americans to peaceably assemble and petition for change.
We will overcome the obstacles placed before us. We will not be deterred. We will persevere. Our message is resonating across America, and our cause is shared by millions around the world. We are the 99%, and we want to live in a world that is for all of us — not just for those who have amassed great wealth and power.
You cannot evict an idea whose time has come.
The only way you, OWS, all will make a difference is if you affect the day to day operation or flow of life, commerce, and or government. As i once witnessed in France, their government wanted to raise fines, tolls, taxes, etc. on all commercial truck drivers and trucking companies. What happened next was amazing. All French trucking companies and drivers criss crossed their trucks across all major highways in their country, completely blocking and disabling the transportation of all goods throughout the country. This lasted for about a week or less, until the government backed down and reversed its decision. It worked because it takes a protest of this scale to affect change. Occupying a park, although symbolic, will never ever ever do anything to change how disgustingly our government and the rich control all our lives, and continue to make the rich richer. You need to regroup, and i mean regroup all OWS protesters from across the country to a few very large simultaneous protests because small groups here and there won't really make a statement and can be easily intimidated and disbanded by authorities. You need a board of smart leaders that can effectively communicate a set of real smart ideas and demands and better organize the movement. You need to continue to use social media as a way to communicate as they did in the middle east to oust their dictators. But most of all you need to make one massive statement by protesting and affecting the day to day operation or flow of life, commerce, and or government. It will be the only way that you will get the govt and the rich to stop.......turn around......and stare in awe at the EPIC scale of the movement before them, and realize that the time has come, and that We The People have officially drawn the line in the sand, and are no longer willing to play their game any longer. IT IS THE ONLY WAY. Thank you.
Agreed, but the mass park demonstrations are a great way to gain new members and spread the message. Once the numbers increase to a massive size than your ideas can probably operate at their maximum effect!
Quote: "peaceably assemble and petition for change."
It's good to peaceably assemble, but Occupy also needs to petition for the change. Make a short petition.
Ghandi called transportation strikes for a purpose. And that purpose was not just to upset commuters.
I'm still not entirely sold on the the list of demands or petitions. If you have to go up to your CEO and say, "Mr. CEO, please be nice to me and treat me fairly" YOU HAVE ALREADY LOST! Maybe somebody can better explain to me how a list of demands/petitions will work in today's world?
Please sign this petition in solidarity with OWS, thanks http colon slash slash wh dot gov slash jgJ To obama administration to recognize OWS
I would think that's a bit of a moot point. Why do we need Obama or for that matter Boehner to recognize Occupy?
We are the movement; the movement is here; it it real; we are not dreaming. In fact people were dreaming the American Dream for the the last 10 years, and they just woke up to
Agreed, but once the mass is there, its time to go to work
There are some logical disadvantage to what you say. #1 When we elect leaders, the movement can be easily infiltrated. These 'leaders' could easily be bought out. #2 If we offer demands, may people will not agree with them and lose interest which will take from the momentum of the movement. We should continue talking and occupying until more people agree on issues. #3 If we gather in one place, not as many people can participate and it will be easier for authorities to round us up. IT IS NOT THE ONLY WAY. Thank you.
Don't be scared of leaders. Not every leader is bad. You need a constitution and organization. Then you need a leader. MLK was a leader, Ghandi was a leader, our founding fathers were leaders. I understand your concerns with authority and rightfully so, but if you do not organize and set a leadership you will fail.
Make a constitution, one that encompasses everyone's concerns. Be it environment, or employment, or even education, it must be there clearly. A solid framework that empowers everyone is the beginning step towards a true revolution!
Peace be with you!
forget a constitution(the one we have is pretty good) establish a code of ethics that all potential leaders swear too, a breach of the ethical code and the corrupt leader is ousted. When the people see a political party forming that is based around ethics, it will easily overpower the parties of corruption
Agreed, we need to perfect the constitution we already have, that means making corporate "personhood" unconstitutional and it means defining speech in such a way that it precldes the legalized bribery the we now call the campaign finance sustem.
correct - you don't need ONE or a few leaders, but you DO NEED MANY working groups, which will require many leaders. Broaden out the target, but DON'T 100% flatten it out - going to the opposite extreme is NOT the answer (same shit different flavor), the middle ground, or 'best of both worlds' is.
correct, even more so - 300mn citizens will NEVER AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fact Check: the U.S. is the MELTING POT of the WORLD!!!! You will NEVER have 51% consensus, so you need to build this into any assumption/model. You've set out a set of absolutely UNREALISTIC and UNACHIEVABLE assumptions.
The ONLY way is RADICALLY NEW THINKING: FLEXIBILITY!!!!!! The HUGE BENEFITS of DIVERSITY can ONLY be unlocked with FLEXIBILITY.
You do NOT need to have CONSENSUS if you can offer FLEXIBILITY, i.e. make most of the people happy most of the time.
EXAMPLE:
CORE (~5%): only for: 1) infrastructure, 2) critical defense, 3) emergency services, 4) basic education (K-12 only, or, plus technical trade school of up to 2 years), 5) government administrative employee salaries, 6) assistance to mentally or physically handicapped (if unemployable, under employable or orphaned), 7) correctional facilities (if decided to be on the Federal level)
NON-CORE (from 5% – 100% taxes): can be UNLIMITED, but are all OPTIONAL (i.e. choice of paying in then receiving) – all individual social support (social security/pension), medical support, environmental issues, business support, culture and arts, etc.
If you can do this, you have a slim, trim and most important, GENUINELY SUSTAINABLE government RUN by CITIZENS (not government running citizens) so that you can 1) have the cash (i.e. stable financial foundation to 'the building), and 2) focus on the TRULY IMPORTANT issues: advancements in science, technology, arts/culture, social issues, environment, etc.
If you include all the non-core in the core, you are REDUCING FLEXIBILITY and you will NEVER MAKE FORWARD PROGRESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (and just be on the path ALL countries are on, socialist countries in the lead: decay, than destruction)
The above example was ONLY for example purpose, not for actual discussion here and now.
br, Michael
[Removed]
If people did this in the USA, they would get tear gassed, beaten, and shot with rubber bullets by the police. They already do that to people for staying in parks after 11pm.
Excellent examples. Gandhi was successful in calling for transportation strikes as well. Only then did the British consider the cost of allowing India self rule. Occupying a park has at least opened the topic for discussion. But, it hasn't changed anything. Change requires action, not inaction. You can't just have mass and take up space and expect to effect change.
You are right. They need to work with Organised Labour. This injects a note of Realism into the Idealism. To be fair, they have marched with the Trade Unions in New York. The thing is, they are forming a Nucleus to Rally Around. Remember, Working People have to Work and can only join in at set intervals. The Occupiers 'hold the fort' in the meantime. It will come, they will work increasingly closely together, I am sure.
Agreed!
but organized labour has to get off their asses and really seriously embrace this movement... show up at protest en mass etc.. not only when collective bargaining is on the chopping block!
Organized Labour already 'get off their asses' every day to do a days work. They also have to see to their families. You need to take that into account before pitching into them like that. You will not overcome the Monopoly Capitalist System by just 'changing your mind'. It is going to be a tough struggle and you need to work with Organized Labour and benefit from their experience. If you do not work effectively with other groups, you will most likely fail.
Absolutely
Right so help to make it happen..
Yes, the strikes in Europe do have an effect, but all too SMALL, and end up being resolved by the governments 'throwing them a bone' to TEMPORARILY solve one small issue, which in effect is just a 'SYMPTOM', but not the ROOT CAUSE.
To be effective, and more important, to have SUSTAINABLE ADVANCEMENT, mass strikes/protests like those in Europe can only be effective if part of an OVERALL PLAN, or the LAST part to push through GENUINE and SUSTAINABLE ADVANCEMENT (not just any 'change' in any direction the wind is blowing today because 'we're all pissed off').
As I've posted here before (http://occupywallst.org/forum/cause-and-effect-osw-announces-closing-of-subway-b/), OWS will NOT BE SUCCESSFUL until they can engage a larger part of the public, and PHYSICAL G.A.s while nice, simply ARE NOT EFFECTIVE in today's electronic age.
FUNNY - here they are on top of translating to the world, this electronic message board, utilizing all forms of modern electronic communication, etc and in the end, they are promoting fragmented, physical G.A.'s all over the U.S and World for governing countries !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Founding Fathers (though, wealthy, vested individuals) didn't have a choice - NO INTERNET!!!! But OWS DOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GET YOUR ASS IN GEAR - 1) prepare a thought out plan from the MANY contributions on this site, 2) voting under full legal names, for the plan (or parts of plan - to minimize polarization) 3) get the electronic version of the G.A.'s going, so you can gain a critical mass for LEGALLY PETITIONING the concrete ADVANCEMENTS necessary.
Michael
Right on
Fabulous ideas!
the purpose is to cause the least interruption to normal folks, and to cause the most interruption to the bankers and politicians who would be the origins of policy and practices that led to the corruption of our government and economy. There are of course others that are involved, but they would be effectively stopped if those that the people elected upheld their oaths to the constitution and regulated the businesses that were involved.
Capitalism is here to stay. What kind of system do you suggest. Communism? There is a lot of evidence to back that it does not work. Do you need a history lesson?
lecorsaire, I respectively disagree. Capitalism is simply a reasonable method to distribute commonwealth among citizens. It is a tool for society and should not be considered a major principal in governing a people. The people of a society should be able to vote in a democratic election for people who they find have the best solutions to the problems of society. The rich, investment class, and corporations skew elections to their favor due to influence in financing political campaigns. The majority of the citizens are left with the politicians bought by corporate interests. The individual vote of the 99% is reduced in value because of this injustice.
obviously capitalism on steroids doesn't work either.
Right on the money, but you have to start somewhere. They are the spark and look what it did nation and worldwide in two months. This helped to get things brewing and initiate a snowball effect that will bring togerher awesome awaken masses that wil watch the 1% run WITHOUT their money or wealth. France has a long tradition of social movements and an infrastructure built of people for the people. Now people like you and me have to join in and help to make it happen. It would be a little selfish to talk about how things should be done and leave it all to them. Its our turn now, THE REST OF US OF THE 99% because the owc did their part superbly already!
Here's one example that might relate from the forum. Over 1,985 people have commented on this post describing a major action of civil disobedience in DC. http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/
I am a little concerned about how the "like" and "dislike" buttons are working out. Perhaps I am over reacting, but it looks to me like the buttons are being abused. I was under the impression that the like button was to be used when a post was truly relevant to the conversation, and the dislike button was to be used when a post was abusive or irrelevant. I think that people on both sides are only using the buttons to vote up their position and to vote down an opposing position. There is a problem with this, I believe, and I wonder if the buttons shouldn't be disabled. That way everyone can see for themselves everything that is being said without having to expand threads that have been collapsed due to unfair dislike votes.
You can still see all that was posted, just click on the [+] to expand threads that have collapsed due to being disliked. I like this feature.
I liked the feature also. I am merely trying to point out that it seems like it is being used to mask perfectly relevant replies and comments. Just scroll down this page. The dislikes are far outweighing the likes. Something is wrong. Out of 286 comments, less than ten have likes. All the rest have negative points.
Let's face it, the trolls are here and they are abusing the system. That's what they do. No doubt that people are being paid to be trolls. My sense is that they should be placed into a "troll" section where their views can be put in context. Also, I have no objecton to ip addresses being used to eliminate spamming from organized trollery.
The fact that they are here at all in these numbers means that they are afraid of the movement! It's a sign of weakness on their part.
We need to take the energy of the trolls and transform it!
The reality is that peace and love are not just Quixotic ideals but practical hard core neccessities if the human race is to survive thrive and evolve into the future!
So how do we get the people running the site to take notice of this?
The buttons are definitely being abused, I've noticed it myself. There's a large number of votes bumping up pro-corporate positions (largely anti-OWS). This seems to be similar to previous campaigns by groups such as "American Majority".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGB8Uuffi4M
Only since the Citizens United v. FEC decision in early 2010, corporations no longer have to disclose their identities in their funding of activities. I think the pattern of attack works like this:
First, COMPLETELY FUNNY that this forum/OWS is REPEATING all kinds of mistakes already learned on TONS of sites on the internet. Trying to reinvent the wheel is never a good idea. You take the best of what there is, leave the mistakes, so you can start much father ahead and improve from there. Like the people of OWS never spent time on message boards commenting!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BUT FINALLY!!! some people are catching on!! Very easy for BIG MONEY to pay a PR company to hack away.
The EASIEST solution is to remove the secrecy and, viola, there is NOTHING to ATTACK!!! Wow, it's Magic!!
By registering under FULL LEGAL NAMES, commenting using this real name, and having a history of comments for everyone to see, you ESTABLISH YOURSELF and YOUR POSITIONS!!! Not rocket science.
Yes, big corporations are laughing all the way!!!!!!!!!!!
Michael
We have to keep upvoting this thread or it will get lost and won't be brought to the attention of the people running the site.
Very good points although I think your tone could be more constructive. Yes, many people here do not have a lot of experience on messaging, forums, or anything like that. Personally, I was not very enthralled with the random chatter, I need a specific purpose to speak up.
You know more than many of us about how Internet messaging systems function and are infiltrated, please help rather than disparaging.
I'm glad the tone came through, because soon, OWS will piss way a once in a lifetime opportunity to gain a critical mass necessary for ADVANCING society (not the 'change' buzzword).
As a former working in the financial sector I follow MarketWatch for business news. Here is concrete, constructive help (links to a site that went through these steps) - http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-best-laid-plans-2010-12-03
This link is an article explaining why they removed "Thumbs down"
And the full rules for their forum - http://www.marketwatch.com/community/faq?siteId=
But really, you can look at the rules of millions of sites (Wired.com, Amazon, etc.) they all have their rules listed (which means what works).
Michael
I see now what you were talking about after reading the article you linked. I didn't realise how far efforts would go to disrupt communication. I always assumed that people act like they do in fact-to-face conversation, and malcontents usually tire of their diatribe. But we're in a completely different ball-game, with paid infiltrators and socially retarded trolls.
The lack of having a "friendly community" can drive away people from participating at all, hide real discussion, and change the focus so that no progress can be made.
You should put up a forum article, but use a more friendly tone :)
So, I repeat, how do we get the people running this site to take notice?
Well, other people are noticing that the voting is being hijacked. Seconds after a posting, numerous dislikes appear which collapse the thread. We have to bring this to the attention of the moderators.
In the 1980's Ronald Reagan harnessed the masses in support of fascism. Leaders are not trusted, especially charismatic ones because a grass roots people's movement can so easily be harnessed by the forces of evil. Considering the right wing of this country has been responsible for this contemporary wave of fascism and the left unable to divorce it because of its popular support, putting leadership behind this movement is a thing as dangerous as the thing they are fighting .... or could befriend them to their enemies.
This guy has a good idea:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-them-lose-money-and-they-will-listen/
Some kind of massive action will soon be necessary. Huge general strike, Oakland shut down their port for a night, that's a start. Will need to be a nationwide plan of action, even if it's just for one day to show the power the people have to affect change.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ1_Pebu5Tc
Withdraw all your money from the bank. Job done.
I find myself in agreement. The conditions are right for tapping into the peoples desire to do something about their situation but the Strategy is not really working to its full potential yet. There is too much Dreaming and Idealistic Platitudes abound. The people do not need another 'Self Help' Guru or Pollyanna. They need Leadership, Organisation, Strategy, Logistics. They need the Tools and Methods to both Defend Themselves and make Inroads against the System which is Oppressing them. There is a need to get down to the 'nitty gritty' of Strategy, Planning and Mobilisation of All the Resources available. To just accept, for instance, that equipment losses can be written off with an appeal for donations to replace, without thinking ahead to when the authorities do the same thing again - it just won't do. It is the same thing with the violence being used against Protesters. This should Not be just accepted with a 'turn the other cheek' attitude. I am not talking about counter violence, that would destroy the movement, no, I am talking about training people to legitimately defend themselves if attacked. There are both Passive and Active Defence Strategies and Tactics, which can and should be used. You need to Deter the Authorities from attacking you with impunity, not just assume that the people can keep merely absorbing the violence. The American Constitution provides for the Citizens to have a right, not only to defend themselves but even to bear arms. Given this framework, there is no need to just 'take it' all the while. There are Occupy Groups within the Armed Services, 'Occupy Marines' for instance who can help with perfectly Legal , Legitimate ways of ensuring that the Citizens know how to Defend themselves. You must not allow yourselves to be just 'pushed around' all the while, it does not result in admiration and sympathy, it just looks woolly headed and weak. Sorry if I offend anyone. I am not even American, in Britain we have no Written Constitution and certainly No 'right to bear arms'. We are polite people, on the whole, but if the Authorities start using Violence against us, we do not just take it lying down. We are not THAT polite ! I just think that the Occupy Movement needs to 'Get Real'. The Powers that be are not just going to roll over because you Say Nice Things about 'Changing the World'.
I agree totally with you on this one TimeHasCome, we need to organize these events nationally, not regionally, sporadic demonstrations here and there, dont get noticed. If we do this on a national level, we WILL get the attention of not only the 1 percenters but the rest of the 99 percenters as well.
Keep Up the Good Work. Be Willing to Change and Improvise. Keep the 1% guessing. Fair-ness.
Please sign this petition in solidarity with OWS, thanks http colon slash slash wh dot gov slash jgJ
To obama administration
they need to do it or you need to do it? you want them to continue to take a beaten to your freedom OR OUR freedom? why is you and not we? who are you?
Occupying a park is changing people's mind.
Instead, occupy the Mall in DC, its worked in the past. Hoovervilles, the Bonus Army, I Have A Dream Speech, and the war protests during nam.
Here's one example of major DC action tha would have huge impact. Over 1,985 people have commented on this post describing a major action of civil disobedience in DC. http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/
Well, someone has to organize this mass movement because right now, not much is occurring.
Yep, blockade the whole area, even all the surrounding govt bldgs, it will take a huge protest to affect change
However, if you look at how many people are affected and how many people are protesting and how many are joining this movement, it would be easier for everyone to converge in one spot and strength in numbers right? It is possible to disrupt DC and it should be done, forget Wall Street.
The Hoovervilles were not full of protestors, they were full of indigent Americans suffering during the Depression. The term comes from the typical spin given by those practiced in political exploitation.
However, aren't we all, with the exception of the 1% suffering from the economic depression. They say that unemployment is at 9% or 9.5%, but its really sitting at 25% which is Great Depression numbers, although, we have many more people than 1929 had which makes it even more of an epidemic.
We already have our brothers and sisters in solidarity at OccupyDC for that work. Our job is to Occupy Wall St.
Two very important areas, ny and dc....but less significant chapters should join the most significant locations and disrupt the machine. The way ows is so spread out will do little to affect any change
Hence why OWS should unite at DC because DC is the only one who can change the policies of wall street. The only way to do it correctly is to go to the policy makers not the companies. Just look at TR he was able to break trusts, the people could never of done it. It takes protests to bring about policy changes to bring about economic changes.
The presence in so many places, large and small, is what appeals to so many. Besides, 5 people occupying Peoria will grow to 10. Then 20....
We have to be everywhere.
You're having little effect in NY, and if you insist on living on the street you should at least organize, board buses bound for DC and take it straight to the White House and Congress.
It will take much more than a park's worth at one location to affect change.
I agree; OWS is growing and will reach the point of converging. Great popst and great comments but just to add a thought, we can pressure lawmakers but I just don't think those in DC will make the kind of change we need since they are the ones that have helped bring us to this point... corruption is deep. It would be nice to peaceably vote them out of power but voting is rigged... so we do need to address that to make effective change within. It's one problem that needs to be solved so WE can solve the many other problems. I just don't see 'them' implementing the solutions they have ignored/quashed; WE will. IMO. Peace
I only occupy the park to release my bowels on the sidewalk.
The Germans did the same with the ethanol our corporate Congressmen were pushing and they refused to buy from Walmart. Neither exist in Germany.
Right... Threaten the general public with mass unlawful actions to cripple their regular day to day life, until you have things your way. I'm sure OWS will gain support this way
You think the way to get into the hearts of the population is to shut down the transportation infrastructure? That is nuts. You'll just get blamed for the delays, disruptions and annoyances that you have caused.
Until OWS has leaders and demands there is really no point to any actions, so you are right on that count. At the moment, from the outside it just looks like purposeless anarchy.
Your a funny guy. Uneducated, simplistic and lacking a general understanding of the real world. This "movement" is nothing more than a bunch of bozo's who want everything given to them. Some of us actually work for a living, create jobs and support our own family. Look at Europe, they follow your values and are crumbling. We are heading that way not because of capitalism, but because our leaders are trying to appease the idiot liberals like the ones running OWS. The OWS (Oh We Suck) leaders have never created anything in their life except for taking advantage of lazy people who think they are entitiled to money and benefits just because their baby daddy knocked up their momma. Protest away, glad to see you occupy a jail cell.
I'm from Europe.. and you are the one who's uneducated, simplistic and lacking general understanding of the real world. Have you ever lived outside the US for an extended period of time? Have you ever been to OWS to learn who we are? I'm sure not!...you just probably sit on your couch and watch Fox noise and let them fill your head with lies. Without getting into your unfounded accusations about who the OWS protesters are, I can tell you that Europe is crumbling because corrupt governments chose to let themselves be sucked into the financial shenanigans of the major world banks and financial institutions.Goldman Sacks helped a corrupt Greek government cook their books giving them an undisclosed loan so that Greece could enter the EU. Now Goldman Sacks is asking for the repaying of that illegal transaction at high interests and the corrupt government wants its people to pay for it. In Italy, a corrupt government gave all advantages to the rich, passed laws that made it legal to cook the books and protected its Prime Minister from being sent to jail. All that while taxing all employees with paychecks to the ninth while letting people that make millions get away without paying any taxes at all. According to the latest statistics of the 61 million people living in Italy only around 350,000 have a declared income above 100,000 euros. Just to make my point clearer, consider that there are about 640,000 doctors and 207,000 lawyers in Italy. Now the banks that loaned money to Italy at a low interest are asking interests in the range of 8% making it impossible for Italy to repay its debts without drastic cuts and economic measures that will be paid once again by the middle class. Again the rich profited and those who have worked hard all their life to support a family must pay. It sounds very familiar, because it's exactly what's happening in the US. Banks and financial institutions are dictating to entire countries what they need to do, and corrupt and weak governments go along with it. But why should the people that have not profited but have only been exploited pay for their mistakes and profits? It's fundamentally wrong. And in my opinion are people like you that should occupy a cell for being an accessory to illegal activities. I work hard, I pay a shitload of taxes, I volunteer in my community, I sent my kids to college, I was fortunate.This is who I am and I'm proud to support OWS with so many others like me because we believe that there must be a better way and we need to get to a better and fairer world. Come down to Zuccotti Park if you dare and talk to us instead of spewing your ignorant remarks that only show you don't know you a@% from your elbow and your screen name minus the communist is really appropriate!
Well said. The top US 1% get 3800 times the avergage income after they have hidden the rest in tax havens.
The bottom US 40% get 5 / 10,000 th of the average income and have no resources to hide their meagre income.
Some very scared people still don't get it. This is gong to change. The direction on the wealth slide to the top will reverse.
We have to oppose war in any form including bases off shore.
Alleged Terrorism is used as a means for promoting fear, dividing the 99% and fleecing the taxpayer for munitions production. The real terrorists are run the banks.
We have to adjust wealth distribution and also cut right back on energy use and striping of the planets resources.
Wealth is not stuffing up our future. 1% parasites must be purged.
abolish taxation. establish right of human being to exist. establish authority of government to fiscally unlimited revenue to supervise humanity and to fund human being right to exist. peaceful solution. win win
Awesome roslu! well put. nay sayers like DickheadCommuist haven't a clue what they are saying.
Spot On!
You know, I've worked my ass off for 50 years, never had a damn thing given to me, and I most definitely DON'T want everything given to me, and I find your characterization ignorant and offensive. Statistically, more of the OWS protesters are employed than are members of the Tea Party movement. Where is your criticism of those "deadbeats"? You remind me all to much of the snide, smirking criticism of those protesting the Vietnam war (a war in which, i should point out, I served). AS for Europe, the only nations in Europe that are in trouble are those that bought into our banking fiasco. The mainline socialist nations of Europe are among the most successful and prosperous in the world. It is, IMHO, your own attitudes that reflect an ill informed and simplistic view of the world.
abolish taxation. establish right of human being to exist on Earth. Establish authority of government to fiscally unlimited revenue to supervise humanity and fund our right to exist. All of Europe are affected by the 1%. poverty is a crime against humanity.
Wow. Just look at yourself. Did you ever stop and think how that would also shut down people's ability to travel? What is wrong with you?
Thats exactly the leverage of the truckers, but you dont get it, do you. Whats wrong with YOU?
You know I was extremely disappointed when I was in Portugal in 1999-2002 that the country embraced the EU, and the Euro and the loony ideology of the American right. You have to understand that truckers in America were totally for the fascism of the Right. The Right used to target the non-working man. Targeting WORKERS is a more recent phenomenon. Europe has experience with fascism. I would have expected resistance from Europe. The last thing I expected was for Europe to lay on its back like an economic whore waiting for the fascist right wing of America to rape her with this "free market" line.
You fools try and block people in. See what happens.
Only a fool would think anything less than a major disruption would ever get noticed. Be real.
Again. Start disrupting people's lives and see what happens. I bet you won't do it twice.
Israel has blocked the Gaza shore, and Palistine is short on everything
non citizens being arrested and held indefinitely without releasing their names
No kidding. It is not the NYPD you will have to worry about. It will be my angry wife! Lol.
Well maybe its not a good time to travel bro...its about paralizing the cities...that is the specific point. Man up
It about being liberal in a liberal city. It's about being ignorant to our system. It's about infringing on the rights of others. You start blocking major highways in our infrastructure, prepare to get run over.
Man up bro.
And you think that the bankers and congressmen will just leave if you ask them politely? Nothing short of an epic disruption to this machine will be needed to affect any kind of change. What is wrong with you RexDiamond?
block my way to work and there will be major problems. I guarantee you that if OWS starts making it hard for people to function in society, a movement you cannot imagine will rise up against you.
I'll see you out there....godspeed
"All French trucking companies and drivers criss crossed their trucks across all major highways in their country, completely blocking and disabling the transportation of all goods throughout the country."
And this is tantamount to domestic terrorism. You expect hold a nation's economy hostage to get your point across? Have fun with that, just don't piss and moan when your vehicles get removed (read: abjectly demolished) to save the 99% from starving/all being instantly unemployed.
Well obviously it would be much harder to hold this nations economy hostage, due to its size geographically compared to that of France. But overwhelmingly occupy several key areas of the country and you will disrupt it significantly.
There is a conflict of ideas, because by disrupting economy you hurt ordinary people first. 1% have that much resources that you barely can expect them to starve even if you block all the roads in US(not before every one else starves). On the other hand there are millions of people who will not do much until they feel something is really happening, and disrupting economy is the best indicator of "something going on".
That is an example of the power of unity. I see the truckers had a specific problem to address, they exhibited their power, problem solved. We have many problems that will not be solved that easily... yes, it would show our power, makes a statement but is not productive, just burdensome However mass actions, like move your money, are affective. We are smart and we will get there. Growing pains still. We are headed in the right direction.
Change does come about by engaging in acts of civil disobedience. Stress on the word "DISOBEDIENCE". People may not like it at first, but the message it sends is that people are willing to suffer the appropriate (and sometimes inappropriate) legal consequences of their actions to draw attention to a greater injustice. People will see police arresting and/or abusing ordinary people while protecting an unjust system, and they will draw a reasonable conclusion.
Please add "I hope" to your post and I can agree with it but don't bet your money on it.
I work in NYC and make great money. I feel a bit guilty about not being more involved. But I do pray for your resolve. I do share the stories with my colleges. I have been wrestling with my conscience about my fears. It fear that I will loose what I have (house, car family etc.). I fear my wife and kids would not be too fond of my involvement. So I continue to watch and wait. As for now, I just discovered that the company I work for has been involved in tax evasion. I think I will blow the whistle and let the cards fall where they may. I wish there was a way to get the corruption out to the regulators without having to be made public. If I am any indicator of what the 99% are feeling, it is fear. Fear of loosing our stuff, the irony is that we are loosing it by doing nothing.
Fear is the obstacle. Why can't we shut down commerce in every major city? Because there are many others like you who fear for a loss of their way of life. I am not faulting you, just pointing out that the fear mentality is exactly why we are losing. We are in Babylon anyhow, and it will crumble. It is just a matter of time. I am not trying to be pessimistic because I do have a hope, hope for a new world. Our way of life is unsustainable. This movement is bigger than any of us, it is even bigger than an idea. It is the evolution of the human spirit. Fear is not an option.
Well said Betsy, fear is the chief obstacle....but we need not fear fear! :-)
Better to focus our energies on practical manifestations of Love and Peace!
The reality is that peace and love are not just Quixotic ideals but practical hard core neccessities if the human race is to survive thrive and evolve into the future!
Yes, exactly. And, if people don't get it they will when they are seeking clean water, and uncontaminated food. Let's hope we can evolve quickly before it gets to that point!! Though it already is that way for some. Like the people in Japan, for example.
I hear you betsy, there are already plenty of threats to our air, food and water right here in the USA. That's why we need an EPA and FDA and Dept of Agriculture that actually represents and defends the health of humans and not just that of corporation's profits.
Having said that, Ron Lawl's "final solution" of simply eliminating these agencies is counterproductve. We have to legally take over/OCCUPY our government so that we, the people, become the lawmakers. Not easy, but possible....and neccessary.
JJ says it well "Keep Hope Alive!!!"
It's not so easy to change. I'll admit it, I'm afraid of unemployment. Last time I became unemployed, I couldn't get a home because I had no proof of employment. I ended up homeless for a month and slept in a sleeping bag on the roof of a library.
I fully agree with you that fear is not constructive and doesn't help, but it's not necessarily within the conscious mind to change. When we get older, our minds become more crystalline. We can logically know why something is silly or wrong, but that doesn't mean we can change on a whim.
In essence, our logical brain is not in complete control, but it co-pilot with the mammalian emotional brain. Sometimes we end up sitting and watching ourselves and wondering why we do the things we do.
Actions need to take people's emotional state into account. Right or wrong, it's there.
maybe, if you taste all the world's views, you will be more agile when going with the flow. change happens weather (sic) you like it or not.
For good people to do nothing is like giving a license to the crooks to keep abusing.....
good for you for speaking up. If you had facts maybe they could be made available anonymously.
yes fear is a good word, but some have more to fear than others.
Yes fear is the obstacle in many cases. But until you find the courage to get more involved there are other things you can do to support this movement: spread the word, sign petitions, donate money, post comments, and eventually find the time to come down and attend some events... once there you'll feel the energy, the enthusiasm, the hope... you'll meet people like you.. and overcoming your fear might become easier
The worst thing to fear is fear itself.Free yourself brother, join us,we the people.
WHY AREN'T WE TAKING THIS TO FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MACK? They received the biggest federal bailout of the financial crisis!And nearly $100 million of those tax dollars went to lucrative pay packages for top executives.
The top five executives at Fannie Mae received $33.3 million in 2009 and 2010, while the top five at Freddie Mac received $28.1 million. And each company has set pay targets of as much as $17 million for its top managers for 2011.
That's a total of $95.4 million, which will essentially be coming from us, the taxpayers. Fannie CEO Michael Williams and Freddie CEO Charles Halderman are on track for 2011 are about $6 million a piece.
They are going to be asking this administration for up to another 100 billion in bailouts to keep them on top. WHERE IS OUR OUTRAGE!!! OCCUPY FREDDIE AND FANNIE!!!!
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-11-15/house-panel-backs-bill-to-block-bonuses-for-fannie-freddie.html
See our government doesn't suck completely. I believe this was a result of enough cries and publicity that can be attributed to the OWS movement
I 2nd you 100%! Yes, we have a loooong list of names for "occupying" and I believe one will be Freddie and Fannie! List all the names who got the bailout paid by the taxpayers!! Who are those "too big to fail"? LET'S FAIL THEM! We must occupy all of them! And don't forget, we must also occupy the mainstream media becaue they don't report the facts. Let make a long list and find out where they live, we can show up to their doormats!
Why is it so easy for politicians to order police action against ordinary people exercising their rights, but near impossible for them to bring the real criminals that ruined our economy to justice? Our system is entirely corrupted, entirely broken, entirely unethical, and utterly deplorable. Shame on the leaders of this country. Thankfully, the people are pushing back. Thank you, Occupiers. You are this country's salvation. You are doing the most important thing in the world right now. Please stay strong and well.
Because these ordinary people happen to be squatting on private property while urinating and defecating daily without any sort of hygiene or cleaning. Seriously the park was turning into a cesspool. Protesting has not been banned, just the ability to setup a makeshift village on private property.
DEMAND A NEW PROPORTIONAL VOTING SYSTEM AND NEW CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAWS.
If you can agree on nothing else, you MUST demand these two things. They are the only guarantee of permanent and democratic change. It's not about the bad people in the current system, it's about the SYSTEM. The only way to guarantee justice in governance is through a proportional voting system. The Congress must look like the American people, and in a representative democracy, that means party representation (seats in Congress) in proportion to party support (popular vote).
This is what the hippies SHOULD have demanded 40 years ago, not just Nixon's head, and it's what Occupy movements across the United States, Canada and the U.K. should be demanding first and foremost. It is our duty to ourselves and the world to make these 3 crucial G8 countries real democracies, instead of the mirage democracies they are right now.
Taking the money out of politics is an idea I first had at a young age. I believe I was 10 or 11. It makes so much sense but it will never happen. Once that young kid grows up and gets into the position of running for office the money is too attractive to reject. Money is the root of all evil but this is what our civilization created and I'm sorry to tell you it is here to stay. Nothing can or will change. Those in power will not suddenly have a kind heart and if their opposition (OWS) grows in numbers and begins to get violent, that opposition will be swiftly neutralized. Hipsters in parks all over America vs the most powerful Army. I wonder who will win?
Many of those 'hipsters' are from the armed forces. They know how to use guns, too, and as we saw in Libya, even the most powerfully entrenched corrupt interests will crumble like sand once they've pushed the people past the tipping point. The Soviet Union was a monolithic superpower, and it crumbled just the same. The 'most powerful army' argument doesn't wash.
We need real democracy, and if we have to threaten the powers that be with violence in order to get it, then I suppose that's just what we'll have to do. Look at the Arab League now tripping over themselves to criticize Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad. They wouldn't be lifting a finger right now if it hadn't been for the speed with which the people overthrew Hosni Mubarak and Moamar Ghaddafi. Mubarak left before there was any real violence, and Ghaddafi, like Saddam Hussein, being a megalomanic psychopath, chose to force the people to overthrow him violently. If that's what it takes, then there is nothing for it. If America is so hopelessly wrapped around the finger of a small number of powerful people, and they refuse to let go of their power, then they must be threatened with violence.
I greatly abhor violence. I was in the army myself (though never in combat) and felt somewhat sickened by its destructive power whenever I fired my rifle, but humans just seem to work like this. You just have to decide how important the principles of democracy really are to you.
"They have been reviled; they have been ridiculed, persecuted, imprisoned...but they have been sufficient to themselves and their cause, and their final triumph is but a question of time...You need especially to know that you are fit for something better than slavery and cannon fodder. You need to know that you were not created to work and produce and impoverish yourself to enrich an idle exploiter. You need to know that you have a mind to improve, a soul to develop, and a manhood to sustain. You need to know that it is your duty to rise above an animal plane of existence. You need to know that it is for you to know something about literature and science and art. You need to know that you are verging on the edge of a great new world. You need to get in touch with your comrades and fellow workers and to become conscious of your interests, your powers, and your possibilities as a class. You need to know that you belong to the great majority of mankind. You need to know that as long as you are ignorant, as long as you are indifferent, as long as you are apathetic, unorganized and content, you will remain exactly where you are. You will be exploited; you will be degraded, and you will have to beg for a job. You will get just enough for your slavish toil to keep you in working order, and you will be looked down upon with scorn and contempt by the very parasites that live and luxuriate out of your sweat and unpaid labor."
--Eugene V. Debs, "The Canton, Ohio Speech" (1918)
Whoa
Why not march to Washington and camp on the mall or in front of the White House? The protectors and sponsors of Wall Street and Corporations like GE, sit in the White House and get their favors.
I am pretty sure that WILL BE one of the Call to Action on the lists. Also Occupy Media, Occupy Court,etc, etc That day will come!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/its-time-for-a-million-people-march-to-capitol-hil/
Check out this thread.
And, Check out www.peoplescongress.org
and, http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Occupy%20the%20Mall
You know, I've worked my ass off for 50 years, never had a damn thing given to me, and I most definitely DON'T want everything given to me, and I find your characterization ignorant and offensive. Statistically, more of the OWS protesters are employed than are members of the Tea Party movement. Where is your criticism of those "deadbeats"? You remind me all to much of the snide, smirking criticism of those protesting the Vietnam war (a war in which, i should point out, I served). AS for Europe, the only nations in Europe that are in trouble are those that bought into our banking fiasco. The mainline socialist nations of Europe are among the most successful and prosperous in the world.
Were those last few paragraphs stolen from "Braveheart?"
When the system is no longer about fairness, when it is no longer about justice, when money has corrupted the very laws that are supposed to represent our values, the system is no longer valid. It no longer has any moral weight. OWS will not be swept under the rug. It will not go away like a bad dream. The bankers cannot paint over what they have done. Go Occupy Wall Street!
General comment to all OWS folks - your general montra is you are against the 1%, well I argue that belief is unamerican as each and every person has the same opportunities in this country and the top 1% sacrificed much of their 20's and 30's working hard to get ahead, taking on debt to enhance education, and working 10-15 hours a day to be successful. They are the American dream versus individuals like yourselves that put the responsibility and onus on your success on others... Make better decisions in life and you too will be successful.
Furthermore, your antics are not only bringing attention to your so-called plight, but you are impacting the families and businesses in the surrounding area (who are not part of the so-called elite 1%). What gives you the right to take business away from others. Get a job and seek out the American dream instead of blaming others for your shortfalls.
You say all that as if this were the America of 40 years ago. It's a tired argument, Tim. We are now a country with one of the greatest income disparities in the world. 43 million people are on food stamps. The wealthiest, most of them inheritors of their wealth, have increased their take 240% or more over the last 30 years. The jobs that allowed Americans to send kids to school have been off-shored. Corruption has caused our government to be unresponsive to the needs of its citizens. I imagine you know all this and are just a shill or just generally fucked-up in the head. Hard to believe that you're too dumb to grasp what has happened to the United States in the last 30 years.
A person working 10-15 hours a day for the benefit of all deserves high respect indeed, and I have absolutely no problem with such a person owning a decent house and a nice car and being able to feed and educate their children. A person working 10-15 hours a day devising ingenious schemes to trick others out of their hard earned money and to make sure they stay at the bottom and continue filling the coffers of the already rich - sorry, no, such a person deserves no respect at all.
And you are a smart man. Instances where folks enter into morgages without informing themselves of the terms, I have little pitty for them. Folks that devise hybrid, confusing investments that impact earnings/savings of others, they should be held accountable (ergo Dodd-Frank that will help regulate the markets.)
OWS isn't about the folks who entered into those mortgages, because they payed for their mistakes, it's about the financial institutions that got rewarded for their borderline illegal actions.
Did you actually post this comment twice? You're either full of yourself or someone with an agenda.
My friends, I urge you; never, never, NEVER give up!
Thanks for quoting Churchill!
Wait until NYC winter arrives at Zucotti without any kind of shelter.
Is the real peaceful and movement strengthening response to continue to gather and work for twelve hours each day but not to "sleep or create structures"? It has speed. One might even say it is more sustainable. Is it time to begin a dialogue towards specific political demands?
This is such hyperbole. Bloomberg actually went out of his way to insist the protesters be allowed to continue to protest in the park; the point of contention concerns the overnight camping and associated safety concerns. There's been no attempt to prevent freedom of assembly. I think it's a positive change; the sleepover thing was a magnet for weirdos.
If Bloomberg went out of his way to insist protesters have their constitutional rights who was suggesting that their rights be violated. Was it the police or corporations? Bloomberg is public servant and works for the people, not the other way around. He has no authority to give constitutional rights to anyone. He must abide by them.
You're confused. Nobody was seeking to violate the constitutional rights of the protesters, and I never suggested these rights are Bloomberg's to give or take away. But you have no constitutional right to camp out in a privately owned park, albeit one whose owners have agreed to allow public access to. What Bloomberg did which he didn't have to do was urge the judge and the park owners to allow the protests in the to continue, albeit without sleeping in the park overnight or depriving other's of the ability to use the park for other reasons. You're making this situation into something it's not.
This is the clearest explanation of the Wall Street fiasco that I have ever heard. WILL YOU HAVE PROFESSOR WILLIAM BLACK ON?
Professor William Black link to law2.umkc.edu Asking why no one has been prosecuted? Have heard this fellow before I believe on Democracy Now. Listen to the whole clip. This man should be at all the teach in’s. Clear and on target.
Occupy LA Teach In William K Black link to youtube.com
“Ok I am coming with a message of hope actually. In the savings and loan crisis which was one seventieth the size of this crisis. Our agency made over 10,ooo criminal referrals and that resulted in the conviction on felony grounds of over 1000 elites in what were designated as major cases”
William Black “We can prosecute these frauds. The Federal Housing Finance Administration has just filed complaints saying 17 of the largest banks in America committed massive fraud. Endemic fraud.. And that there is a paper trail proving that they did so.”
“Where is the Justice Dept?”
BANKS IMMUNIZED FROM NOT ONLY BEING PROSECUTED BUT FROM BEING INVESTIGATED
Contact the Justice Dept? Ask them why no one on Wall Street has been arrested or prosecuted?
http://www.justice.gov/contact-us.html
I agree with this. We must rebut their "handout" quips with the factual 2 trillion in toxic assets dumped on the American people during TARP 1. Since that time Bernanke said they have purchased about the same amount. That is 4 trillion in corporate welfare. A line of credit at less than 1% interest is what Wall Street Banks are still receiving every single day. There has not been a single conviction for the reckless actions that lead up to this financial crisis. AIG was the largest recipient of TARP.
Agree, during the Savings and Loan scandal back in the early 80's people went to jail. With this Wall Street Government Sachs B.S. the heads of these firms are all like the sacred cow. Untouchable.
How true. We are all acting like there are no laws-regulations in place that would correct this problem and that courts that would punish the guilty.
OWS is simply trying to reinvent the wheel (and a great wheel it is) rather than working through existing channels. If nothing else - the old adage that HASTE MAKES WASTE may be more appropriate than anything else.
why not rent using donated money, space for encampment? then can migrate 7am sharp to park for daily activities. Do that in every city and then coordinate protests around the country.
this thread is indicating large votes in favor and against post made
with little middle ground.
Peaked unlike/dislike statistically should not happen.
I suspect a coordinated voting group or scheme
OWS folks... I've listened, researched, and socialized your movement with several people (all very educated and from both main political parties) and still don't understand a few things:
I understand the main point is to dis-associate the 1%'s money/influence and Corporate money from ANY involvement in the U.S. government. To this point I agree (I strongly believe in campaign finance reform) - but the question still remains - isn't this achieved through means of our civic rights and responsibilities vs. what you're doing right now? There is no end to your means - when will this approach end? What will satisfy you?
If this "movement" is about American Banks, Corporate Greed, etc... then why in the heck has this spread to Paris, Hong Kong, etc...? I clearly understand the balance of international markets and their effects on our financial communities, but seriously - the main point behind the OWS movement is to fix the American political movement. The govt in other countries can't compare to our political structure.
Lastly, why did you all allow a Canadian Ad Group to influence this movement? Seriously??? They are like the friend who "encourages" you to do something bad, but doesn't participate so they don't get in trouble. Amazing how groups like Adbusters and Anonymous (a hacking group) are behind the initial origins of this campaign.... PATHETIC!!!
Anyway - Your movement is lacking direction to a solution. You're all just like the people at work who "complain" about everything, but don't take any steps in solving the problem. Why don't you get involved in "Occupying" the State Senators and Congressional Leaders offices' and force them to vote the will of the people??? This seems to make more sense.
Also, Why hasn't your movement headed to a more logical place in the U.S.??? Washington D.C.??? I understand that your GA has been swayed by the DNC to avoid that tactic... hmmm, sounds like lobbyist made their way into the OWS family.
I like the spirit and intent of the movement, just terribly mis-guided as you're NOT doing anything to change things. Tents and Signs won't change legislation... Go Vote! Go start Grass-Roots political movements.
It's posts like yours that lead me to believe OWS is working ;-)
I love reading these comments and fondly remembering conversing with some 17-year-old yuppies who made extreme efforts to exercise sesquipedalian vocabularies in order to sound more like they understood the given topic of conversation... which was usually politics. I include myself in this group as I am pretty ignorant about most things political, but I do have an opinion on this mess.
Sleeping around in tents while most of the 99% (including myself) goes to work to try and pay our bills (and fund the billions of dollars per year that our idiot government spends on supporting illegal immigrants and welfare benefits for losers who can't pass a drug test) might be noble in concept... But in practice, dare I say, it seems just a tad lame.
Perhaps in our next election, all the "protesters" could go to the polls and really force change rather than voting over and over and over again, term after term, to keep the same idiots in their seats. In my experience, I've found that shaking my head gets me nowhere, no matter how often I do it. Do something about the problem or quit complaining. It's the voters that put the government into power, not just the rich and privileged 1%. Democracy = MAJORITY VOTE... You do the math.
"It's the voters that put the government into power, not just the rich and privileged 1%. Democracy = MAJORITY VOTE... You do the math."
Yes, ignoramoose, you're absolutely right. Somehow, the people put the government into power, and your exhortation to 'do the math' is an excellent one. You only have two parties in the United States. Most modern democracies have one or two dozen, and in functional, just democracies (i.e. real democracies, like say, Germany) about 4 or 5 of those parties have enough support to win seats. They win these seats in proportion to their actual vote levels. If party A gets 28% of the votes, they get 28% of the power (seats) in parliament.
If you want to fix what's wrong with America, you've got to start from first principles. Fix your voting system first. It's the machine that turns people's votes into representation. When you're forced to constantly choose bewteen only two competing options, the debate becomes greatly dumbed down to arguments over black and white, with no shades of grey. Similarly, there's no room for real co-operation when there's only two parties, as there is when there is 4, 5 or 6 major parties. If you want government decisions to be fair, long-term in their outlook, and just, you must have a voting system that ensures the Congress will look like America.
You need a mixed member proportional voting system before you can even sit down to discuss how to fix the problems of America. Otherwise, you're just deluding yourselves.
The shame of the OWS movement is they have failed to take the next logical step, which is Occupy the White House.. They have repeatedly said the mivement is not ready. That is a lie. The OWS General Assembly and the DNC have repeatly met in secret to keep the movement from Occupying the White House from fear of offending the current President. Shame!! The President has stated publicly he supports the movement, but behind the scenes is trying to block the movement with continued distraction. The fact is the President has given specific instructions to the Capitol Police that if the White House is Occupied, that they are to stand down, and not steal Tents and Generators. Yet OWS in it's corrupt secret meetings are trying to continue to persuade the ranks they are doing the right thing for now...WRONG.. It is time to demand full support for the "Occupy the White House" Movement. It is time to remind the President that the White House is the peoples house!! He serves at our pleasure. OWH Now!!! Promote the full Occupation of the White House" now!! Don't be fooled by OWS/DNC infiltrators. OWH Now!!! Today!! Take back the peoples house and demand real change...
Don't tread on me or anyone else!!!!! I don't care what your movement wants. The minute it starts infringing on MY rights, it's game on.
YOu guys would be better off trying to occupy a job. This movement is filled with a buch of total idiots. You want the government to "level the playing field" etc. Where will that money come from? The people who create jobs......and once their money is gone, they will not have the money to create jobs so guess what? No more money for the government and you are back on the streets. But hey, you had fun smoking some pot and protesting....I wonder where the Doritos are?????
Very good suggestion, dickhead! Yes, please get the jobs back from China and India and other small countries so our people will be busy working and no time to do Occupying stuff. Please help! How about wait till you loose your job and see what you say?
(Sometimes I wonder why it's so hard to get the point of this OWS??!! Isn't it all about a crisis of no job no prosperity and that pushed people to get on the street?)
You should learn about money and how it is created.
It may give you and understanding of what OWS is about.
Take a look at http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2061535/Occupy-Wall-Street-protester- dragged-Bob-Turners-swearing-ceremony.html?ito=feeds-newsxml.
This gives a very bad image of the movement. We talk about World Revolution. Who do u think will be the one to stage it, the one being dragged or the one doing the dragging?
If we don't fight back, that is what will happen to the whole movement i.e., being floored, dragged and thrown out.
Remember to play this at 1:30... and sing along... all together now... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FM3KR9dEOk
Remember, you dont need to prove nor demonstrate ANYTHING to them nor anybody. This law is a mockery of justice and basic human rights. It is passed by the 1% to benefit the 1%, not us. You stand your ground and remain where you choose to for as long as you decide. The bunch of judges with arrogant and selfinflated egos self appoint themselves as some superior beings deciding the faith of the others who by the way pay their salaries! You DO NOT HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING TO ANYBODY. They have to prove to US that they can defend our rights as it was originally meant, instead of defending their inner elite circles! This must be one of our many demands and the law must be reformed from the bottom up, just as it was during feudal times and during the French Revolution, where after the new laws were passed the heads of elites rolled on the streets. So hold your ground, we make the laws and fight for change. Stay at Zucotti for as long as YOU deem necessary to see basic and significant changes in favor of the people!
Bravo.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/coast-to-coast-march-converstaion/
Here is a question. OWS is great, but has anyone considered Occupying Work? What better way for the Occupy movement to make the statement to corporate and business shareholders and owners that WE are the ones who make their businesses money.How much money can they make if workers show up but do little or no work? How many products will they be able to make to sell? Who will sell them?
While you or I may make $40K a year, many executives are making 1000 times that amount. If we're standing up for greater equality, then Occupying work seems to me a way to say state clearly to businesses that an executive isn't worth 1000 times what you or I may make if we won't work.
I'm all for capitalism, but it's time to extend a little democracy into the workplace and have a more equatable pay structure.
Yeah, that will work. Check the employee handbook you probably signed that your read. That give them the right to remove you if necessary. That is like a legal contract.
They are afraid, doubt is taking root. I'm so proud of all of you, you're so close now.
Is it fair to ask now where the money is that has been collected? Almost $500,00, right? Who is in charge of that? Will you make public how the money is distributed? Did you consider using some of it to cover the expense of cleaning the park? I mean, do you feel you should pay for ANY of this?
Can't you understand that they are entitled to this money? Don't they deserve free rent, food, clothes, smart phones and iPads? Transparency would mean that someone would have to pay for the NYPD bill. Transparency would mean that Adbusters or whoever else is directing this "unorganized" people's movement would have to pay taxes on all that money. The horror!!
It is not your f-ing business.I donated money for this cause, and I dont care how it is spent.
Cool. That's the attitude you would be expected to have in the government of OWS too. Transparency? FU! How dare you question the People's government?! What are you, a reactionary?! Give, all that you have, don't ask why!
You are taking money out of the pockets of hardworking 99%ers in NY, and as the NYPD receives federal funds, out of the pockets of every one of the 53% of American's who actually pay taxes. As one of the 53%, it is not my responsibility to feed, clothe or house protesters. If you pay for the security, housing, food and cleanup, then I don't care how you spend your time.
Thank you, from the bottom of my heart. Thank you for all that you are doing, for me, for my children, for our nation's future. Thank you for not giving up. Thank you for giving a voice and a force to my fears and frustrations.
How can we put a freeze on the Congress' wages? We will pay them when they represent us!
You don't have to sleep in the Park to maintain a 24/7 presence. Find places for people to sleep -- there are dorms and churches all over southern Manhattan. Set up shifts. You can beat Bloomberg at his own game; he can't throw you out, and he knows that. By making tents and camping the issue, you allow Bloomberg -- and Wall Street -- to change the subject.
so beautiful to watch. We are watching on u stream. states that 166,175 are watching...total.
Bloomberg sent the police to the wrong address to arrest and prosecute. Wall Street is just a few blocks away
You are forgetting our freedom to bear arms and defend ourselves.
"We have it in our power to start the world over again" - The moral and political thought of Thomas Paine
Occupy Manifesto Suggestion...
"Independence is my happiness and view things as they are without regard to person or place. The world is my community and my religion is to do good." - Thomas Paine
Objectives:
a) Remove political influence of power and money from the government.
b) Adopt a policy of sideways economics as opposed to trickle up & trickle down economics.
c) Hold politicians accountable
d) Commit to vote.
e) Religion and the 1%
This is 5 point start, a good foundation that will create on-ramps directly to the heart f the problem and gives a united theme for how to create a specific message.
Thomas Paine was considered treasonous by the founding fathers because of his view on the moral good. As an african-american, I find it ironic that a man who in the very beginning was against slavery was run out of the country simply because he believed that 'All men are truly created equal' & 'Separation of church and state is necessary in order to have a government of the people by the people.'
At the end of the day, the Occupy Movement is about justice.
http://www.religionpaine.org/article_bisheff01.html
If we want to allow freedom of speech, arent we contridicting that statement by having rules before one can comment on this issue?
I am infact the .01 percent s. i am not imbreed or a devil.. in fact the product of a black parent and a white parent.. both of which have very high religious morales whether wrong or right(i dont agree with them on the christian god). they are not selfish(in fact donate much of their wealth) whatsoever and only try to provide a life of comfort to my family of seven. They are not excessive or opulent and do not chase wealth they only work hard and are intelligent. although there are some greedy, selfish, self centered assholes.. that is not nearly the majority and it is incredibly ignorant to demonize everyone who is financially succesful.. who agrees?
OWS!!
i believe in changing with time.. but most of these ideas have been proposed on and ignorant basis and have largely contributed to ows' reputation as an illigetimate wannabe revolution.. no more than a fashion show. SO if we really want to make a difference we have to think of the effects of the policies we want to implement... which ideas will actually further us toward a long term goal.. and which of our ideas will actually take us further from our long term goal or unrealizable fantasies.. think people!... look at economics, science, philosophy, history and human nature... we need to learn to make thing better within is capacity.
what are the values that America was founded upon?... :life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. we all have the resources to live, and we all have the liberty of choice: that is to purchase the products that support corporations or not to spen and support corporations, and we all are able to pursue happiness even in the sense of working hard and choosing to accumulate wealth to spend it upon our wants. this is the choice we are free to act upon.. if you dont want to be wealthy or free to pursue positions of power.. then move into the wilderness and grow and hunt for your food and live in a hand built shelter.. nothing is wrong with that and no one is stoping you.. but do not be a hypocrite and try to impose your biased ideologies about being equal and everyone getting equal rewards no matter their achievements and success. Fundamental freedom is about the ability to reap the benefits of your ingenuity intelligence, determination , and effort... not to give everyone the same rewards even if they accomplish nothing on their own. Also all educated people for the most part believe in science and evolution which demonstrates biologically that everyone was not created equally and that some were naturally imborn with a higher propensity to succeed, or were born into an environment that allowed the to do so.. so why are you demonizing them... if you were not aware; THERE IS NO GREAT ALL POWERFUL, CONTROLLING BEING. READ SOME PHILOSOPHY, ECONOMICS, SCIENCE AND HISTORY.. THE UNIVERSE IS INDIFFERENT!
what are the values that America was founded upon?... :life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. we all have the resources to live, and we all have the liberty of choice: that is to purchase the products that support corporations or not to spen and support corporations, and we all are able to pursue happiness even in the sense of working hard and choosing to accumulate wealth to spend it upon our wants. this is the choice we are free to act upon.. if you dont want to be wealthy or free to pursue positions of power.. then move into the wilderness and grow and hunt for your food and live in a hand built shelter.. nothing is wrong with that and no one is stoping you.. but do not be a hypocrite and try to impose your biased ideologies about being equal and everyone getting equal rewards no matter their achievements and success. Fundamental freedom is about the ability to reap the benefits of your ingenuity intelligence, determination , and effort... not to give everyone the same rewards even if they accomplish nothing on their own. Also all educated people for the most part believe in science and evolution which demonstrates biologically that everyone was not created equally and that some were naturally imborn with a higher propensity to succeed, or were born into an environment that allowed the to do so.. so why are you demonizing them... if you were not aware; THERE IS NO GREAT ALL POWERFUL, CONTROLLING BEING. READ SOME PHILOSOPHY, ECONOMICS, SCIENCE AND HISTORY.. THE UNIVERSE IS IN FACT INDIFFERENT!
You aren't the 99%, and I doubt 100% of you are ready to make half the changes you really think would be GREAT actually WORK!
If everyone would work together it would work. Take all your moneys out of banking institutions, pay cash ...transfer your acount to a comunity bank, take your moneys out of Wall Street. It takes balls to stand up and most peopple have been castrated psychologically by the fear of Uncle sam...remember what happened in the last protest in the 70's about Vietnam. Its a tough one but if we do little things "all of us" it will have to change. They made us believe that we need banks, we don't ..we just got so spoiled to pay stuff with a plastic card and overspend that it would feel like being in a third world country to pay cash for all our spending. Our lesson is to stop spending for stupid stuff from WalMart, by from your community not China, cut your losses and move out of your house with the bad mortgage, move in with famillies and check your spending. If all of us would spent one month in Haiti or Costa Rica or Republic Dominican then you realize that we dont need all the crap we consume and famillies live together, not 2 people per 2000 SQFT houses. America its time to lower your standards and enjoy life for a deeper purpose than your 401K. Good Luck. I lost my high income job in May, opened my company by Septembr and cut my expenses from 3500 to 1200 per month and i still could cut down...I love it.
News article shows support for Occupiers in DC. But local politicians said Tuesday the city's law enforcement officials have more experience with keeping protests peaceful, and cited the need to protect the Occupiers' rights. "I'm glad Mayor [Michael] Bloomberg is not running the District of Columbia -- we are more sensitive to the important expressions of freedom of speech," said Ward 1 Councilman Jim Graham, referring to the New York City raid. "I think as long as we have what a reasonable person would consider an orderly protest, I think it ... should be respected." On Tuesday most of the 13 council members went on record saying the protesters should be allowed to stay in McPherson Square and Freedom Plaza indefinitely. Wake up OWS...You had a good run, but your destroying the movement by failing to completely support immediate occupation of the White House.. OWH Now!!
News article shows support for Occupiers in DC. But local politicians said Tuesday the city's law enforcement officials have more experience with keeping protests peaceful, and cited the need to protect the Occupiers' rights. "I'm glad Mayor [Michael] Bloomberg is not running the District of Columbia -- we are more sensitive to the important expressions of freedom of speech," said Ward 1 Councilman Jim Graham, referring to the New York City raid. "I think as long as we have what a reasonable person would consider an orderly protest, I think it ... should be respected." On Tuesday most of the 13 council members went on record saying the protesters should be allowed to stay in McPherson Square and Freedom Plaza indefinitely. Wake up OWS...You had a good run, but your destroying the movement by failing to completely support immediate occupation of the White House.. OWH Now!!
wow! if i had as much free time as you idiots i could get all kinds of stuff done. (a lot more than hanging out in a park pooping on myself)
i guess there are some go-getters out there though that know what they want and go for it...those are the rapists of course.
Watch this and pass it along...
http://bankofamericasuck.com/
Read this...
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,1877351,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothschild_family
Once again an example of the failure of OWS to do anything to truly progress the movement to the source in DC. These foolish assemblies in NYC have done nothing but taint you position and rapidly lose support. Nov 6th, you had the opportunity to promote "Occupy the White House" but chose to secretly support "stop the pipeline while working with the DNC and (I've since discovered) the National Democractic Socilist Party. This is why you are falling apart at the General Assembly level, and continue to attract the Black Bloc Anarchists.. Stop this foolishness in NYC now, and Amass at the White House to Occupy the White House..Occupy the peoples house and Congress. OWH. That is what the majority of the Occupy movement is calling for, and now seems to be landing on "deaf ears" as this Nov. 17th operation will prove. This is your end..Your self-destruction. GO TO WASHINGTON..The Capitol Police will not steal your tents and Generators. OWH..Take your demands to the source. The President supports you and wants you there now. OWH Now!!!
Your lies will catch up to you…. but for now continue to be the puppet feeding lies for a vote!! That’s what this party does is lie and mislead for greed, power, self preservation and a vote while the US suffers. Your comments to OWS by GOP/tea-indep., get a job take a bath!! Defecation in the park, noise level really, stated by Mayor of NY, “UNFOUNDED ALLEGATIONS,”: in other words no proof of it!! That’s all you do is lie and mislead! Do you think those kids like to be in the cold, on the ground. They are educated people fighting for a cause but of course you would not know about that.- Your cause is limited government gee I wonder why, correction I already know! Look at the current Congress you put in!! Any one who follows the tea must be uneducated or have an alternative agenda. The thought of you all running the whole country makes me want to puke...
Hello. I am a follower of mises.org and in response to OWS supporters visiting, I offered a copy of Henry Hazlitt's great introduction, "Economics in One Lesson" to the first ten people who email me at freehazlitt@hotmail.co.uk. I've already given away four, all to California (and so as an incentive to the East Coast, I am offering a bonus copy of Bastiat's "The Law" to the first email with a NY delivery address).
All you have to do is send an email to that address with a name and mailing address, and a copy will be sent to you the same day. No scam, no gimmick, just an opportunity to read up on some crucial information and get some fundamental tools for understanding how things got so fucked up, and how the present policies will only make things worse.
Please don't sign me up to any rubbish sites, this is a genuine effort to engage and inform, in the spirit of OWS. I have six copies left, and the first email with a NY delivery address gets a Bastiat bonus.
looks like the admin deleted the first version of this. shocking. deeply deeply disturbing. I am just trying to share a view point. incredible.
wow I have to offer a full retraction and apology to the admin here. So very sorry for my post, it got lost down here.
Unreserved, full apology. Sorry.
Hello. I am a follower of mises.org and in response to OWS supporters visiting, I offered a copy of Henry Hazlitt's great introduction, "Economics in One Lesson" to the first ten people who email me at freehazlitt@hotmail.co.uk. I've already given away four, all to California (and so as an incentive to the East Coast, I am offering a bonus copy of Bastiat's "The Law" to the first email with a NY delivery address), but I don't think many people are seeing my offer on the comments board.
All you have to do is send an email to that address with a name and mailing address, and a copy will be sent to you the same day. No scam, no gimmick, just an opportunity to get a free book and get some fundamental tools for understanding how things got so fucked up, and how the present policies will only make things worse.
Please don't sign me up to any rubbish sites, this is a genuine effort to engage and inform, in the spirit of OWS. I have six copies left, and the first email with a NY delivery address gets the Bastiat bonus.
We need to be clear about the goal of this movement: it is not to occupy a piece of real estate, it is to occupy a piece of American thought...to get people knowledgeable about the economic issues facing them and willing to act as a group to demand changes. That is the idea that has crept into the cultural dialogue...it is a huge achievement. The goal now should be on how to spread that awareness and while one strategy may be to occupy certain spaces, there are numerous other strategies that deserve consideration. One possibility is to create pop-up occupations: temporary enclaves appearing in various settings where the message of change can be shared with local populations. This would thwart efforts to constrain the movement because the encampments would only last a day or 2, then move on. Something like this could grow the movement by directly interacting with more people. Small, mobile encampments also reflect an essential element of American culture: mobility.
Our Collective Conscience Unifying Peoples Yearnings
Like all snakes You must cut off the head of the 1%
Banned megaphones Banned sleeping bags and tents to weather elements Is this Free Speech ? Is this what democracy looks like ?
The shame of the OWS movement is they have failed to take the next logical step, which is Occupy the White House.. They have repeatedly said the mivement is not ready. That is a lie. The OWS General Assembly and the DNC have repeatly met in secret to keep the movement from Occupying the White House from fear of offending the current President. Shame!! The President has stated publicly he supports the movement, but behind the scenes is trying to block the movement with continued distraction. The fact is the President has given specific instructions to the Capitol Police that if the White House is Occupied, that they are to stand down, and not steal Tents and Generators. Yet OWS in it's corrupt secret meetings are trying to continue to persuade the ranks they are doing the right thing for now...WRONG.. It is time to demand full support for the "Occupy the White House" Movement. It is time to remind the President that the White House is the peoples house!! He serves at our pleasure. OWH Now!!! Promote the full Occupation of the White House" now!! Don't be fooled by OWS/DNC infiltrators. OWH Now!!! Today!! Take back the peoples house and demand real change.
Educate Communicate these are the tasks at hand. MSM is the lame stream media. They are all corporate owned and spew lies and propaganda 7 days a week. People are feed lies and misinformation. OWS must gain a wider platform and keep the message coming while maintaining integrity
Get a job you losers
get a life you drone
Re Gandhi analogies (general strike, transport strike etc). You ever realized that Gandhi's opponents were universally reviled as foreign oppressors by the people Gandhi wanted to convince?
This is profoundly different from the Situation Occupy is in. Their enemy is an enemy within.
It may be more worthwhile to focus on selected and particularly outrageous individuals (without discrimination on sex creed or color) and unravel their activities in public. This need to be people who are lightning rods, but not scapegoats. It's tricky, but it can be done. In Germany we got rid of the Secretary of Defence by publicly proving his outrageous plagiarism in his PhD thesis. The guy was the leading Neocon and being groomed to take over in 2013. Essentially the Neocon faction lost a whole year's work or more.
Target lying economists and other "pundits", greedy banksters, corrupt political and police figures.
As we have seen in Oakland, once pressure is brought to bear on the fulcrums of the system, it's not too hard to make them yield.
By a broad and nondiscriminatory range of targets, the xenophobes etc are also foiled, because simply hitting at organizations "the banks" etc) will eventually leave people looking for more palpable tagets, i.e. immigrants and jews in general.
And once a person in power yields or is deposed, ANYTHING - any policy, any scheme or plan - that depends on these persons being in power there and then is foiled.
It is impossible to bring down a system by this, but it is perhaps the best way to crack it open.
Let this be your guideline: http://www.hks.harvard.edu/netgov/files/complexity/carley%20paper.pdf
Correction: it is ALMOST impossible. But the US is not Egypt. (Still, it is worthy of note that the anti-Mubarak movement was successful because it simply put all the failures of Mubarak and his head goons into a grab bag for everyone. These guys became the lightning rod for peoples' anger. A face to spit on. Same with Tunisia etc. Care must be taken though that ad hominem doesn't stereotypize. Factual information ONLY. Key "nodes" of the pertinent power structure ONLY.)
And there's another thing. The organization of mass strikes is almost impossible (it worked in Oakland port for a day or so, but that's about as much as one can expect at best) without serious support from political organizations. Hierarchical political organizations.
A pinpint interruption of daily life can be highly useful, even life-saving (if a police raid is imminent for example). But on a large scale, it's almost impossible to pull it off without getting in bed with the extant power structure. So even if it works, the price is generally to compromise operational independence. Look at Greece, where the Communists helped to organize general strikes, but when the protests became too "popular" for them to control, they actually defended the government with physical force.
As the Bard said: "And many strokes, though with a little axe, Hew down and fell the hardest-timber'd oak."
Look at what has happened in Iceland - they have won their battle: http://sacsis.org.za/site/article/728.1
The parallels are staggering. Today is a good day.
The enemy is not the 1%
The 1% includes doctors (not all, but some of them) who are, some of them, on our side.
The 1% includes others with high salary, many of whom are on our side.. (and in case you wonder about my motives, no, my salary does not put me in the top 1%)
It's more like the top 0.1%
But no slogan or other movement name was ever created perfect, so it's ok that we have that phrase "the 99"%
The bigger problem is that it's not the 0.1% per se...they too are cogs in a MACHINE.
Some of those cogs are, yes, I agree, very greedy, some of those cogs do Bad Things. Some of those cogs use money to corrupt our democracy, etc...but they are still COGS.
The problem is not them per se...the problem is the machine.
Thing about it: it's very very very unlikely, even beyond unlikely, that every CEO in the US quits their job and joins OWS...insanely vanishingly unlikely...but as a thought experiment, suppose tomorrow morning ALL the CEOs in the US quit...then what? they are simply replaced by new CEOs, who do the bidding of the machine. The Machine continues. Same if a CEO quits their job because they don't like the environmental destruction; they are replaced. Same if they even try to cause a bit less destruction if it costs even a small reduction in profits...hell, if it even allows profits to rise but at a SLOWER rate of increase of profits..then guess what? If they do it for too long, they are thrown out the door...replaced, it's the machine, not the cogs, not even the top cogs.
Or instead of machine, think of it as a sick game. The rules of the game include back stabbing, murder, letting babies starve...or scamming and cheating and gouging people and denying helath care even after years of paying premiums.. players play the role of carrying out horrible actions..but the RULES of the game is what's sick....Corporate Charters are only part of it, but yes, they are a key part, Corporations as "people" etc...
We must create a new "machine" or better, a new "game" with new, saner rules, more sustainable, kind, humane, happiness promoting rules (instead of rules that push to buy buy buy consume consume consume spend spend spend work work work shop shop shop till you drop drop drop...which is not only destructive of the environment and leading to social inequality, it doesn't lead to happiness..even the Rich are overall, not really having a high quality life...but rather shallow materialistic soul deadening lives...don't get us wrong, the middle class and poor get that 10 times worse...but still, the sick system doesn't serve individual people..it serves it own twisted logic...like a bad 1950s movie with a robot programmed by mistake to create destruction everywhere...
Most OWS folks already know this...so why remind us of this? Because we need to keep reminding ourselves where we are going...demanding reforms from those in power is necessary but not enough...they will (at best) give small concessions or reforms...they will not replace the Machine or the "Game" (Money (and its short-term profit maximization) is Your God(TM))
We must create the new economic system, one coop, one community owned garden, one online peer to peer money and resource exchange system at a time, worker owned enterprises run democratically...build them now...
We need something better than just these board to post on this blog...this technology is not far ahead of what existed in 1991 on the internet in usenet groups..(we co-founded the first progressive moderated usenet group, misc.activism.progressive, in 1991)
Please create online venues (discussion boards, wikis, etc, specialized not just to a topic but to projects that build new institutions) linked to from this website, where we can participate directly (those of us who can't be there in person and don't have a nearby large urban area to create an Occupy grouping, yet..) then fund-raise online to support specific programs, fund-raising means donations of both money and labor and skills... in building the new economy and we will join you.
Troll replies - - > /dev/null Constructive or interested? Message us econdemocracyATgmail
"We must create the new economic system, one coop, one community owned garden, one online peer to peer money and resource exchange system at a time, worker owned enterprises run democratically...build them now..."
I agree that we are "Not a Protest but a Process", and that this 'shift' is not about necessarily just 'toppling a corrupt government', but activating a plethora of micro-economies and sustainable industries globally to support the values of all our global citizens. I own a home, but am looking to join a co-op housing development. I support investments in sustainable 'alternative' energies development, and am slowly learning from friends who have attained various levels of 'independence from the grid'. I work 9-5 but I also camp out when I can. I do not see this as an 'us vs. them'. I would like to see more skills and knowledge sharing, in the spirit of mutual cooperation and reciprocal material elevation. I agree that the movement can be more concretely multi-faceted: So why not post some of your own project interests on a web-site and see how those of us of similar goal-orientations can collaborate? I would like to learn more from all of you...peace and mutual prosperity
Thank you to the people who are making a powerful statement with their non-violent physical presence. Also thanks to those who support OWS from afar.
Watching Bravo. Waiting for the episode of " Real Housewives of Zucotti Park"
I'm reading about union members joining in the protests and stirring up trouble and violence. OWS will lose support if violence takes the platform. If this movement is nothing more than expressions of anger by a few thugs, nothing lasting will come of this. The Teamsters and their mob boss ways will be the death of OWS. When OWS first started I was very supportive, but not any more. Read the polls--the Tea Party is not taken seriously by the large majority of Americans, and neither is OWS at the moment. What specifics is OWS looking for? Nobody knows. Get a plan, get rid of the thugs, do something intelligent and constructive to bring about permanent change.
I'm in Portland. I love the 99's and the 1's...we're all so enthusiastic...I envy your action... I hope them and us can consilidate someday.
Hard to do without buttering up what's previously thought as an enemy How 'bout we spit in the middle and stir it up make our own suggestions and then clean it up. It's so obvious we're all so pretty. Knock it off Times so just one senator can speak up. We rubbed our hope all over a president when he barely has clout on the residue of power. I'll keep thinking with you We'll keep thinking with you too I just hope that Slavoj was wrong I just hope the carnival isn't over I just hope we have the predictability like the sun coming up that again and again, we seek to revolve the system
Just a quick aside-- Regarding the media blackout imposed by the NYPD during the attack on OWS, we need to send the message loud and clear to mayors across the country: They must publicly commit to protecting press freedoms in their cities. This is especially true for Mayor Bloomberg, who took full responsibility for the NYPD’s actions this morning. Sign the petition to Mayor Bloomberg and the U.S. Conference of Mayors to publicly commit to protecting journalists covering all protests and police actions. Take action at http://bit.ly/sNo9B2
Time for Plan B: now that the party is over let's join the real 99% and get jobs.
OWS is Stronger!! Your lies will catch up to you…. but for now continue to be the puppet feeding lies for a vote!! That’s what this party does is lie and mislead for greed, power, self preservation and a vote while the US suffers. Your comments to OWS by GOP/tea-indep., get a job take a bath!! Defecation in the park, noise level really, stated by Mayor of NY, “UNFOUNDED ALLEGATIONS,”: in other words no proof of it!! That’s all you do is lie and mislead! Do you think those kids like to be in the cold, on the ground. They are educated people fighting for a cause but of course you would not know about that.- Your cause is limited government gee I wonder why, correction I already know! Look at the current Congress you put in!! Any one who follows the tea must be uneducated or have an alternative agenda. The thought of you all running the whole country makes me want to puke....
Sorry, I disagree. I cannot find anyone I know who supports this movement, or at least that will publicly admit it. I think all of you are trying to hype it up, thinking it will encourage more people to join. Most people say all you you need to just leave, get a job, and become productive members of society.
I think the point why they are here "moron" is there are no jobs out there! Where have you been for the last 18 months?
There are jobs. You freak jobs just think that you shouldn't have to work a job that doesn't fit in with your overinflated egos.
The reason why they are still there is they have gotten a lot of money and sympathy. Adbusters has been very good at hiding behind the "people's movement" they started back in June of this year. Now that the movement has filed for non-profit status, they have to begin to be more transparent. It will be interesting to see how the final accounting plays out in their IRS paperwork. I hope the NYPD sends them a bill.
Found ya a job
http://www.nwcn.com/news/washington/Plenty-of-jobs-in-Washingtons-apple-orchards-132207218.html
Yah, $150k in student loans paid off picking apples. Grow up!
And yet it was peoples individual choices to take out those loans. No corporation nor government entity ever dictated that you HAD to go to college. But lets look at those $150k in student loans. From collegeboard.com "In 2011-12, public four-year colleges charge, on average, $8,244 in tuition and fees for in-state students. The average surcharge for full-time out-of-state students at these institutions is $12,526." For sake of fairness I'll assume you went to an out-of-state college. $12,526 multiplied over four years comes to a grand total of $50,104. Now I understand that you must purchase books also, and even though I have never had to spend more than $700 a semester on books I'll go ahead and estimate $1000 per semester for books. $1000 per semester for 8 semesters is $8000. So we are at a total of $58,104 for the direct costs of your education. The only way to reconcile the other almost $100,000 dollars in student loans is if you did not work ever during those four years and took out additional loan money to cover your cost of living.
So it seems the issue with these student loans that will be difficult to pay of without making large sacrifices to the standard of living you would desire, and the wording in that sentence is VERY important, is that much more money than was needed to pay your tuition was taken out. That would seem to be a poor financial decision.
I am lucky enough to be attending college, at my parents expense. They have saved money as I grew up in order to pay for my education. However, before you say I have no experience in this, my mother payed her way through college. She took out loans to help with her tuition, but only the least amount needed. She worked two part-time jobs during every semester while taking at least 12 hours, though usually fifteen. And during the summer she worked a full-time job and a part-time.
Now I realize that the cost of education and living has increased, that the economy has been bad and there are not many jobs available. Or at least not jobs that you would want to take. I could have worked this semester but I didn't want to work janitorial or in a restaurant. However, I can not see any reason you would need $150,000 in student loans. If I have missed some glaring reason please feel free to point this out.
*disclaimer: you are not owed a college education, a nice house (or a house at all), a comfortable life, or any amount of wealth by any person or government. You do have the right to pursue or own these things, but nobody owes you them.
OWS you ROCK!! Ashamed to be associated with the GOP/tea-indep. How much lower can you go. Block this, block that all for a vote while the US suffers! Pathetic, sad… Chase that dollar see how much you will get back in return, puppets…tea/indep. Puppets!!!
Gathering in a private park is not considered freedom of assembly but corporations are considered to be a person? There's something way wrong in our country fellow citizens.
The Supreme Court will soon rule that since American citizens are not corporations they have no rights.
Gathering is. Sleeping and setting up a makeshift village is not. Get your words straight.
Private park, means privately owned. Therefore, the owners can choose for you not to be there. How is gathering, on private property, legal if the owner no longer wants you there. Then it is trespassing!
someone rich needs to buy the park out from under the owners... What a statement that would make...Then the city would come up with new laws I bet ....Oh well it was a good thought...God be with you all...I am so proud of you . Now is the time we need to began sending out written demands as to what we want to see happen rather then just occupying a space..Let this be your next move forward...God Bless all..
http://mayorbloombergkingofnewyork.blogspot.com/2011/11/speak-out-and-die-in-st-vincents.html peaceful protest half hour starts at 1PM in front of St. Vincent’s -- 1/2 hour protest so come from Washing park OWS protest Thursday join us where St. Vincent’s was and will be Rudin condos and than go on to Union Square Park -- Peaceful protest. Even the NYPD agree we need a hospital in the w. village.
I can't remember exactly the year late 70's or early 80's the government lowered the highway speed from 65 to 55 the truckers went on strike. There was guys out there with guns making sure there was no truckers running.
Yah, that worked out huh? Good plan. Let's arm everyone and make sure they don't go to work. You are a genius!
When was the last time you traveled on the highways? It's 65 even 70 in many places.
Yah.., due to truckers and guns. Frikin hillbilly!
Why are you so angry? I was just bring an event that happened to the conversation. I never said I think guns are the way to go. I hate guns.
Will posting info hoping Occupy Wall Street will join us Thursday a day of action for peaceful protest outside St. Vincent hospital now closed which Bill Rudin -- the Rudin family is turning in to luxury condos from 1 million to 28? million dollars. In the meantime read this Bloomberg Bermuda on the Hudson how his action was pure violence -- no blood shed but pure violence including violating the press’ constitutional rights....read on... http://suzannahbtroy.blogspot.com/2011/11/bloomberg-bermuda-on-hudson-mike-has.html
Amazing job Finally we are at least attempting to take back our country, our rights. Thank you!!
Friends, You are making a difference. The 1 percent is getting scared. Carry on, carry on!
We are not getting scared. You all need a leader or two and some credibility. We know that the money we make is filthy. But the 99% would just waste it on lottery tickets and malt liquor. What we spend it on employs millions. The trickle down effect.
One of Gandhi's most effective methods of protest was making his own clothes. I'm just saying. Protesting against corporations with the products you buy from them while wearing the clothes you bought from them only promotes their agenda. Why not make your own clothes? When the camera pans the crowd and everyone is just sitting around looking bored, it really takes away from the cause. Those who take the liberty of representing the 99% must take the responsibility to do something other than just planking and trying to act too cool for the cameras. Instead get everyone busy doing something productive. I'm just making suggestions here. The cause is just, and some of us have been working on it for a lifetime and will continue to do so regardless of OWS. You are alienating your strongest allies.
How true. If a giant rock fell on this protest and the banks nearby, I doubt that archeologists in the future would have a hard time distinguishing who was who when that rock was removed and to whom the great gold bull really belonged.
Yessssssssssssssss!
Support your local Occupiers BY SHOWING SUPPORT. Some of the proceeds will be donated to help support the movement. By HELPING keep someone WARM while supporting REAL CHANGE!!!BUY now and help inspire change! http://www.cafepress.com/ioccupy
I agree with TimHasC0me. Time to concentrate action so it is massive. How about this? Over 1,985 people have commented on this post describing a major action of civil disobedience in DC. http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/
Bloomberg is wall street, his company is a large financial news service, he will do anything to make you fail...
The Supreme Court has ruled that money is speech. But if that is true, then the things that money buys are also speech. Things like sleeping bags and tents.
Money is the speech of the 1%. Our bodies, kept warm by tents and sleeping bags are the speech of the 99%.
Yes please move on. Know you are tired but get some folks on to tell us why they are there. What happened today. What they want to see happen in regards to Wall street executives being held accountable for bringing the Us economy to the brink.
Ok we have heard you made Time. You are tired dude. You do need an intern. Boring
Know the difference between violence and force. Being forceful does not necessarily mean being violent. Nothing happens without force. Nothing changes without force.
Have you seen one of us being dragged out of a meeting by someone in civilian cloth, reportedly a ex-NYPD officer? This was widely publicized by our enemies. They are using this to show that not just the authorities but ordinary citizens are against us. It also shows the authority how easy it is to deal with us. All it takes is a little force.
What is sorely missing in this movement is a self-sacrificing spirit. This is the most critical difference between this movement and those of Tunisia, Egypt and Libya.
When the System uses force against us, instead of those pathetic “The whole world is watching” and “Shame on you”, we should push back harder and chant “Kill me! I want to die!” and keep pressing forward.
The main necessity to keep all the occupiers together. Let's use the general funds or raise money to rent some large loft spaces for protester communes -- simple floor sleeping space and food tables, then let's occupy everyday from dawn to 9pm Liberty Park, Wall Street and Foley Square. We'll have power and protection from the elements at night. Bloomberg will regret he ever moved us out of the cold.
Henry is making sense.
The general fund cannot be used for that purpose. It must be used to allow the non leaders to function amongst the 1%. They need to stay in hotels and deal with these people on their level. We need to find volunteers to house and feed the workers.
And this, in my opinion, represents the clearest picture of the organization that has ever been presented to the general public of this nation.
Can you explain the difference between a simple "leader" and a "non leader leader"?? I need to stay in a hotel, a new suit, and some good food too. After all, I have to have a comfortable place to handle communications from me (a non-leader) to all you workers out there in the park. Not part of the OWS at this time, but you seek an equalization of all things and I have the other side of the story and you need to hear it too. I also think that the better or more effective non-leaders should stay at the Waldorf where they could better meditate and plot plans for the workers. Maybe have a few "czars" to advise them and a big conference room too. You just can't do that in Motel 6 where the rest of the non-leaders are staying.
Those trips from Canada for the Adbusters crew must really be taking a toll on the budget. I love reading little clues like this and the ones I found on usparliament.org. It gave me a real clear picture of what this "leaderless" group is all about. Wait, wasn't there a "never let a good crisis go to waste" comment made in the White House a couple of years ago. That's right, there are major elections coming up. I wonder if any of those leaders are staying at the Ritz.
Don't give up the whole world is watching!!! OWS and reclaim democracy from the 1%!!!!, we are the people we will never be defeated!!, the people united will never be defeated, this is a long process but I believe we can do this, change this world for the better. Fight for your ideals, Democracy is important!
Live Stream from Zuccotti Park
http://www.ustream.tv/theother99
Very cool.
This guys been taping for 20-hours straight
The only way you, OWS, all will make a difference is if you affect the day to day operation or flow of life, commerce, and or government. As i once witnessed in France, their government wanted to raise fines, tolls, taxes, etc. on all commercial truck drivers and trucking companies. What happened next was amazing. All French trucking companies and drivers criss crossed their trucks across all major highways in their country, completely blocking and disabling the transportation of all goods throughout the country. This lasted for about a week or less, until the government backed down and reversed its decision. It worked because it takes a protest of this scale to affect change. Occupying a park, although symbolic, will never ever ever do anything to change how disgustingly our government and the rich control all our lives, and continue to make the rich richer. You need to regroup, and i mean regroup all OWS protesters from across the country to a few very large simultaneous protests because small groups here and there won't really make a statement and can be easily intimidated and disbanded by authorities. You need a board of smart leaders that can effectively communicate a set of real smart ideas and demands and better organize the movement. You need to continue to use social media as a way to communicate as they did in the middle east to oust their dictators. But most of all you need to make one massive statement by protesting and affecting the day to day operation or flow of life, commerce, and or government. It will be the only way that you will get the govt and the rich to stop.......turn around......and stare in awe at the EPIC scale of the movement before them, and realize that the time has come, and that We The People have officially drawn the line in the sand, and are no longer willing to play their game any longer. IT IS THE ONLY WAY. Thank you.
After more than a month, OWS is on CCTV - Chinese biggest news station again. Great job for OWS.
Why would you want a Marxist/fascist country to be on your side?
Chinese leaders are nothing but money makers. They do not like the OWS movement. They are scared by the movement taking place in China.
Ah. I see. Good point.
Yes, Chinese CCTV! Proud of you. They report more facts than our American media. And the European channels too. I have a French channel. Everyday in the news they mention OWS more or less. But look at our American news media!
There are 66411 OWS news on one Chinese webside inside China. http://t.qq.com/search/index.php?hmh=1&hmh=1&k=%E5%8D%A0%E9%A2%86%E8%BF%90%E5%8A%A8
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If I could be so bold. You will get nowhere with no demands. At the same time I don't think you should have demands.
But I do think you should demand "Balance" between the Government, Media, Business and People.
I know this probably makes no sense to you at this moment, but if Government and Media are owned by the business community, the people will never have any input.
I have tried to explain it on this site.
http://virgilbierschwale.com/?page_id=15
I realize that this will not answer all of your questions and if I could be with you to explain what I'm talking about, I would be.
God Bless each and every one of you.
Virgil Keep America At Work Bierschwale for Senate 2012
I absolutely love how you have expressed yourself. I went to take a look at your link, and I applaud how you are actually trying and also contributing to this movement. We need much, much more input from everyone.
From every spark of light, a super nova.
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Is there a list of demands of what we are requesting to gain the result that we wish to obtain from taking this stand? What terms can we submit to our representatives and legislatures? I have suggestions as I am sure everyone else does, it would be beneficial to compile all these suggestions and determine the best course of action. Put forth what we will and wont stand for. We can occupy wall street but the AMERICAN PEOPLE have to determine what WE are going to do with it.....
Fight the good fight I am overjoyed with the determination and unity of the american people. We are creating history and taking charge of a so called DEMOCRATIC government.
The purpose of the revolution is not about a park or the police or OWS but they are all part of the story of the revolution as are the stories or everyone on Earth in the revolution and those who are not in the revolution. The purpose of the revolution is to irrevocably establish the right of human beings to exist on Earth with the irrevocable right to food, shelter, transportation, communications, education, medical/dental/vision care and love from government and to abolish taxation as an obsolete government revenue system. Government has the democratic, constitutional authority to grant itself fiscally unlimited revenue to supervise humanity and to fund the rights of human beings to exist on Earth. My life is yours not mine under the protracted economic tyranny of the 1% who have no authority to own humanity or to subject humanity to neglect, deceit, oppression, etc. Humanity cannot be supervised by the 1% nor can government owned by the 1% supervise humanity. The irrevocable right of human beings to exist on Earth begin at birth or conception. God is my witness. I am continuing the persuit of this idea it is only 8 days old. Please help me. Please give me hope.
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The tea has got to be the worst party in history! At least OWS is doing it for a true cause! You people actually stood up in council meetings over false accusations on Heath care reform. Death panel, really..make a copy of the actual page, paragraph and article number of the page- notarized! I bet you can’t find it, go ahead and try-do it. You can’t because it’s false!!
Just keep doing what you are. God bless you all.
Never Give Up!
The horizon is my home. I am the GLOBAL OCCUPY MIND. It is going to change.
This is what failure looks like.
Thanks to Mayor Bloomberg (and the 1%-ers) for uninintentionaly adding fuel to the fires that drive the engines of the Occupy Wall Street movement.
The tactic of using the police to enforce the technicalities of the laws against camping in public spaces is not realy about safety, but about an attempt to stifle a movement that is growing and that is scaring the 1%-ers. We have to assume that the right wing/corporate dominated SCOTUS will eventually find this tactic constitutional on the pretext of public safety.
I suggest that this setback be used as a means of making the movement larger and stronger and more organized by adopting the tactic of using Arctic clothing which is fairly weather/waterproof to keep people cozy in any foul weather. That means organizing the purchase, storage, maintenance and controlled distrbution of the equipment. Chemical handwarmers that are non toxc and non-flammable can also be used as needed. This is a simple direct soluttion that would not be easy to impement...but it is possible and neccessary!
The OWS movement is a manifestation of a new kind of human group consciousness/intelligence that actually enhances and strengthens the genuine individuaity of the participants. This is what can be done when people share a common vision/goal/understanding/experience! E pluribus unum in Action. Conventional egoic "leadership" and conventional "heirarchy" is toxic to such a movement...and that is a good thing!
The reality is that peace and love are not just Quixotic ideals but practical hard core neccessities if the human race is to survive thrive and evolve into the future!
Nick Lento
THE VOTING ON THIS PAGE LOOKS LIKE IT IS BEING MANIPULATED! Just scroll down this page. The dislikes are far outweighing the likes. Something is wrong. Out of 286 comments, less than ten have likes. All the rest have negative points.
Please sign this petition in solidarity with OWS, thanks http colon slash slash wh dot gov slash jgJ
To obama administration Publicly acknowledge the Occupy Wall Street Movement as a nonpartisan movement here to stay until REAL change occurs
Time to give a list of demands before the organization breaks up totally! VOTE ON THESE!
Break up the monopolies. The so-called "Too Big to Fail" financial companies – now sometimes called by the more accurate term "Systemically Dangerous Institutions" – are a direct threat to national security. They are above the law and above market consequence, making them more dangerous and unaccountable than a thousand mafias combined. There are about 20 such firms in America, and they need to be dismantled; a good start would be to repeal the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act and mandate the separation of insurance companies, investment banks and commercial banks.
Pay for your own bailouts. A tax of 0.1 percent on all trades of stocks and bonds and a 0.01 percent tax on all trades of derivatives would generate enough revenue to pay us back for the bailouts, and still have plenty left over to fight the deficits the banks claim to be so worried about. It would also deter the endless chase for instant profits through computerized insider-trading schemes like High Frequency Trading, and force Wall Street to go back to the job it's supposed to be doing, i.e., making sober investments in job-creating businesses and watching them grow.
No public money for private lobbying. A company that receives a public bailout should not be allowed to use the taxpayer's own money to lobby against him. You can either suck on the public teat or influence the next presidential race, but you can't do both. Butt out for once and let the people choose the next president and Congress.
Tax hedge-fund gamblers. For starters, we need an immediate repeal of the preposterous and indefensible carried-interest tax break, which allows hedge-fund titans like Stevie Cohen and John Paulson to pay taxes of only 15 percent on their billions in gambling income, while ordinary Americans pay twice that for teaching kids and putting out fires. I defy any politician to stand up and defend that loophole during an election year.
Change the way bankers get paid. We need new laws preventing Wall Street executives from getting bonuses upfront for deals that might blow up in all of our faces later. It should be: You make a deal today, you get company stock you can redeem two or three years from now. That forces everyone to be invested in his own company's long-term health – no more Joe Cassanos pocketing multimillion-dollar bonuses for destroying the AIGs of the world.
Is treasa tuath na tighearna This Gaelic saying is translated as "The people are mightier than a lord."
It was a different scene last night at Zuccotti, but the voice is still there and the movement is still there...share your thoughts on how social media has helped disseminate information regarding #OWS....http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/FCVNFHM
Please sign this petition in solidarity with OWS - http://wh.gov/jgJ "Publicly acknowledge the Occupy Wall Street Movement as a nonpartisan movement here to stay until REAL change occurs"
Is there anyway we can get some portapotties in the park? I've been holding my poo all night, standing here and they just closed the bathroom at the Starbucks I used to frequent. Ugg if only this were last Monday when it was ok to make a dukie on the sidewalk.
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The world of public opinion has evicted you because you allowed sex, drugs and crime to enter your squatter villages.
Here's the deal....people who were elected to lead made the decision for the people (the public) to evict you. Your Zuccotti Park group was not elected to anything, and is therefore not responsible for anything. Irresponsibility leads to other people forcing you to be responsible. And that's what happened.
The 99% of responsible people evicted the 1% of irresponsible people. And it shall remain so.
The parasite rulers under Aipac (ie virtually ALL all american politicians,bankers and moneylenders) can and will evict an idea whose time has come....if Americans remain dumbed down.
I think the best thing that has come out of OWS is that it has taught people we have a voice and it taught us HOW to organize in protest. It can be done peacefully. We CAN make waves.
What is your objective? You guys don't seem to have a clear one. You're making a lot of noise but it's nothing but rubbish.
My statement is objective free. It has taught us how to organize regardless of the objective.
contesting public space should be tied to building broad support for systemic change that offers solutions.
we're like a river trying to move a huge rock... soon our current will be unstoppable... we keep on fighting!!!
Why are YOU people referring to them as THEY?
The government did this dastardly action out of fear and nervousness-they see you succeeding,they see your protest becoming a peoples revolution which shall devour all the evil.The government has understood your humane philosophy that is why the government is trying hard to create confusion among people thus stopping them to understand the reality.You have won but the government has in fact has lost.You are the future of the humanity while as such governments shall soon become the thing of past.
How strange...my "You cannot kill an idea" post just vanished.
Must be ghosts.
peep!
http://sacsis.org.za/site/article/728.1
Right on, occupiers! Your power is democracy! And you shall topple these fake authorities.
Hey Bloomberg:
I sent these folks a really "dangerous" package a few weeks ago. Really "dangerous"
Sweaters, winter socks, winter hats, gloves, hand warmers, etc..
So where are they now? In some dumpster thanks to your knee-jerk "shut-em-down" and transparent silly excuses about 'health concerns' that are just that, excuses, and not based on facts? They kept the place CLEANER than other parks that are not Occupied..not just "as clean"..but cleaner...
That's right, now DARE Arab dictators use force against non-violent protesters to evict them?
Oh, never mind, Washington is OK with that so long as it's pro-Washington Dictators like Egypt (who Washington supported until it was clear it wasn't viable) or dictators like Saudi Arabia and Bahrain who are beating up civilians, including doctors, etc...but only outraged when not-currently-in-favor dictators or not-pro-Washington dictators (Libya, Syria) ...ah but against fellow American s who peacefully assemble? No problem using force.
How DARE other countries use force to evict non-violent encampments calling for change?But next up, after this short commercial break (or not so short) we bring you our unbiased story about OWS: "are they a nuisance? Do their yoga classes interfere with the right of others to enjoy the park, I mean, yoga classes? That's horrible! Do their consensus Assemblies simply um, um, did we mention the phrase Dirty Hippies 10 times in the last 10 minutes? Um, let's evict them...We report, you decide"
So you throw to dumspers the private property of nonviolent Americans exerciseing their rights...including donations we sent toThink that will stop us?
Nope...they are getting more donations...or else financial contributions, or both.
And the American people are more and more on the side of OWS the more they see the Police-State tactics being used against them..that support will keep growing
You can't kill an idea, period.
http://wh.gov/jgJ -- please sign my petition in solidarity with OWS
The enemy is not the 1%
The 1% includes doctors (not all, but some of them) who are, some of them, on our side.
The 1% includes others with high salary, many of whom are on our side.. (and in case you wonder about my motives, no, my salary does not put me in the top 1%)
It's more like the top 0.1%
But no slogan or other movement name was ever created perfect, so it's ok that we have that phrase "the 99"%
The bigger problem is that it's not the 0.1% per se...they too are cogs in a MACHINE.
Some of those cogs are, yes, I agree, very greedy, some of those cogs do Bad Things. Some of those cogs use money to corrupt our democracy, etc...but they are still COGS.
The problem is not them per se...the problem is the machine.
Thing about it: it's very very very unlikely, even beyond unlikely, that every CEO in the US quits their job and joins OWS...insanely vanishingly unlikely...but as a thought experiment, suppose tomorrow morning ALL the CEOs in the US quit...then what? they are simply replaced by new CEOs, who do the bidding of the machine. The Machine continues. Same if a CEO quits their job because they don't like the environmental destruction; they are replaced. Same if they even try to cause a bit less destruction if it costs even a small reduction in profits...hell, if it even allows profits to rise but at a SLOWER rate of increase of profits..then guess what? If they do it for too long, they are thrown out the door...replaced, it's the machine, not the cogs, not even the top cogs.
Or instead of machine, think of it as a sick game. The rules of the game include back stabbing, murder, letting babies starve...or scamming and cheating and gouging people and denying helath care even after years of paying premiums.. players play the role of carrying out horrible actions..but the RULES of the game is what's sick....Corporate Charters are only part of it, but yes, they are a key part, Corporations as "people" etc...
We must create a new "machine" or better, a new "game" with new, saner rules, more sustainable, kind, humane, happiness promoting rules (instead of rules that push to buy buy buy consume consume consume spend spend spend work work work shop shop shop till you drop drop drop...which is not only destructive of the environment and leading to social inequality, it doesn't lead to happiness..even the Rich are overall, not really having a high quality life...but rather shallow materialistic soul deadening lives...don't get us wrong, the middle class and poor get that 10 times worse...but still, the sick system doesn't serve individual people..it serves it own twisted logic...like a bad 1950s movie with a robot programmed by mistake to create destruction everywhere...
Most OWS folks already know this...so why remind us of this? Because we need to keep reminding ourselves where we are going...demanding reforms from those in power is necessary but not enough...they will (at best) give small concessions or reforms...they will not replace the Machine or the "Game" (Money (and its short-term profit maximization) is Your God(TM))
We must create the new economic system, one coop, one community owned garden, one online peer to peer money and resource exchange system at a time, worker owned enterprises run democratically...build them now...
We need something better than just these board to post on this blog...this technology is not far ahead of what existed in 1991 on the internet in usenet groups..(we co-founded the first progressive moderated usenet group, misc.activism.progressive, in 1991)
Please create online venues (discussion boards, wikis, etc, specialized not just to a topic but to projects that build new institutions) linked to from this website, where we can participate directly (those of us who can't be there in person and don't have a nearby large urban area to create an Occupy grouping, yet..) then fund-raise online to support specific programs, fund-raising means donations of both money and labor and skills... in building the new economy and we will join you.
Troll replies - - > /dev/null Constructive or interested? Message us econdemocracy ATgmail
To all you supporters out there - in solidarity with OWS please sign my petition -
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/publicly-acknowledge-occupy-wall-street-movement-nonpartisan-movement-here-stay-until-real-change/QxXBqJTp
http://sacsis.org.za/site/article/728.1
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-them-lose-money-and-they-will-listen/
Brilliant protest song that sums up Occupy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq3BYw4xjxE
Brilliant protest song that sums up Occupy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq3BYw4xjxE
why are you hating on bloomberg? you should be thanking him. he cleaned up the park so you didn't have to and then he let you all back in. i am sure he help prevent disease and bacteria from growing among you. you should be please, you didn't have to do any work...it is like a free maid service. isn't that what you wanted? now you have servants just like wealthiest .01%
You're just ignorant. Go read more.
get a job
We need to begin organizing mass boycotts.
Bloomberg has to come down just as berlusconi. We elected him, we bring him down, thats all there is to it....
Video interview with someone evicted this morning...very poignant and interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njZB4dPqzfc
General comment to all OWS folks - your general montra is you are against the 1%, well I argue that belief is unamerican as each and every person has the same opportunities in this country and the top 1% sacrificed much of their 20's and 30's working hard to get ahead, taking on debt to enhance education, and working 10-15 hours a day to be successful. They are the American dream versus individuals like yourselves that put the responsibility and onus on your success on others... Make better decisions in life and you too will be successful.
Furthermore, your antics are not only bringing attention to your so-called plight, but you are impacting the families and businesses in the surrounding area (who are not part of the so-called elite 1%). What gives you the right to take business away from others. Get a job and seek out the American dream instead of blaming others for your shortfalls.
I'm not so much concerned that people have money. It's what they DO with that money that concerns me. Once you start buying politicians in order to circumvent or re-write laws to your advantage at the expense of the people I see beau-coup issues - anyone would be foolish not to.
If someone worked hard for their money, much love to them and congratulations on the good fortune. If they are a good person and use their money wisely to the betterment of themselves, this earth and all it's inhabitants, peace to them. They are NOT the 1% we speak of. At least not from my perspective.
Totally agree. The problem is not "the rich" as such but those who, once wealthy, try to cement their status and work very hard at preventing others from also realising the American dream.
This is true. Dominant corporations always tend to engage in antitrust whenever they have the chance. This is in human nature and is something that truly should be regulated. Anti-competitive practices should not be tolerated in any industry.
Greed is part of animal nature. Look at lions for example. The alpha male gets all the women and food and does not share. I'm sure if you were a billionaire you would not be so altruistic or philanthropic yourself. Also why should anyone be or feel obligated to share their wealth with anyone no matter how much they have? Money is not public property.
We do not have to be animals you choose the animal nature, I choose to be of higher moral character, and have dedicated myself to the ethics of permiculture (1 heal and care for the earth, 2 help and care for other people, 3 share your abundance) as well as other ethics. In my observation those who choose greed and the animal nature live stressed dull lives and suffer from degenerative health.
Wow you are such a hipster its not even funny. NYC is definitely not the place for you if you haven't already noticed. This is a capitalist town all the way. No one here cares about helping others.
Hey Tim With Job...Aren't you tired from A long day of being programed by the Bullshit media you watch...Your arguments were debunked 2 months ago Do you even see what is in front of you..Nobody has their hand out for free bees like you have been told...You my foe are a mis informed troll...If you don't like the movement WHY ARE YOU spending time in this forum...Someone program you to come here and talk out your ass ....I repeat your arguments were debunked 2 months ago ....move along son..come back when you get a REAL education
Hey Jim... Aren't you losing time arguing with the troll when you could be out pitching a tent in traffic?
Tim is the perspective that most of these comments are warning against. if OWS continues the way it is, we are all going to be saying the same thing Tim is saying.
When people comment, whatever their intentions, you can learn something from it, so get your head out of your ass.
Full disclosure - I already agree with Tim.
You are right. I am tired from my hard day at work, so I am heading for bed because I do have work in the morning at my job that pays for my single house, vacation home, family cruise, two cars, season Yankees tickets (partial plan as I am not part of the 1%), and my sons' education (referring to two sons just in case you did not understand the apostraphe placement).
Good luck on your movement, but understand that your selfishness is impacting others who worked hard for what they have.
Here, here, mate!!! They better not mess with my commute. NYers are going to be very pissed!!
The 1% would like you to believe that, and it may be that some of them did. But the "too big to fail" banks and corporations are what we mean by the "1%" and they did not live the American Dream, but are rather stealing it from the rest of us. Our government has become a Kleptocracy, where banks will collect trillions of Federal dollars without stipulations, just because they can. Most of the policy makers and media answer to them, and the people no longer have a voice. Many of us are their fiscal slaves via mortgages and student loans that they can sell to each other and change the rules about whenever they feel like it. If they are allowed to continue, the common man will no longer have rights. We've lost many of our rights already since the Patriot Act, and it will only get worse until we stop it.
Nobody told you that you needed to buy a house and nobody told you that you needed to do poorly in school, limiting your ability to get grants/scholarships. And for most banks that were bailed out by the government, didn't want the money, it was forced on them (and paid back as soon as they were allowed to by the government.) The government does take money to build schools and infrastructure, support public programs, fund school programs, and pay for the police that are protecting our streets/supporting security in situations like your protest. The corporations that you fault provide jobs for the country, add funding to charitable organizations, and support the overall infrastructure of society (as I am sure you are aware of since the computer you are using was manufactured by the so-called corporate theifs). If you are that unhappy with US society, there are 190+ other countries that you can move to.
Nobody is stealing from you - if you do not like the service that is being provided or fees/interest that is being charged, do not use it.
When you lose your house I'm sure the government will cradle you so you don't have to live on the streets. OBVIOUSLY everyone homeless or in a bad situation is there not because of the way the law is in this country, but because it is their own fault! What an incredibly fantastic excuse.
http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2010/12/no-big-banks-have-not-really-paid-back.html
If you look at the 10K filings of the major banks (JPM, BAC, AXP, GS) you will see the funds have been paid back. Most of the outstanding TARP funds are related to Fannie, Freddie (both govt sponsored agencies) and non-bank related companies (e.g., GM and AIG.)
Look, I'm trying to share information, not insult people. The links on the blogs show that while some have paid back the money, most have not.
You are right and I apologize (tired I guess.) Each story has two sides. Look at the information you recommended... Most banks paid back TARP funds. Govt backed agencies and certain non financial institutions hold much of the outstanding debt.
though i chime in here...
yes the banks have bought back most of their tarp. I say, its pointless to talk about this.
However, what NEVER was "paid back" were the economic costs of the system's fraud lending practices (incl. the derivaties which caused this whole misery).
Banks made the argument "to big to fail". They got the money to continue with this model "to big to fail". But what about the dire economic situation they left us with (1 recession, and another just around the corner) ....no jobs ... no jobs .... no jobs.....
These are the costs that we need to talk about. these costs go into the 100xtrillions and banks/business show no responsibility towards these costs (these have not been paid back - such as creating jobs). This is precisely at the core of the discourse: "socialization of losses, and privatization of profits"
Government made a devils deal, so that banks could keep going (a bad deal, in hindsight). But banks/business refuses to cooperate in "that deal"; such as allowing for more stringent regulation (such as, Glass Steagal, etc.), all to prevent the same problem to reoccur.
Please take your Cold War era rhetoric elsewhere. I'm so sick of looking at comments going on about how if Bobby works his little nuts off, maybe someday he'll be super successful, because the economy is a perfect garden where anyone can get rich if only they work hard enough! That is a gross over simplification that DOESN'T include the other forces at work, mainly the corrupt forces at work that would derail the success of so many to horde more for themselves.
But you can. That doesn't mean everyone is capable of becoming rich, but everyone has as good a shot as anyone in this FREE country. There is no caste system here, monarchy or slavery. Zuckerberg, Gates, Buffett, Jay Z, Jobs,etc. were NOT born wealthy. They all used their creativity to become rich just like anyone can. Obviously no matter how hard you work at a shit job, career or lack thereof you will not magically become rich, but everyone does have the freedom to use their brain, create, market and collect.
There is a bigger picture.
Well meaning " stop the protest" cries will do nothing to change the mess.
Our America is stuffed and will get worse. Meanwhile a tiny group deliberately stealing from the rest has to be stopped. With out protest how are you going to do it.
Seeds for revolution and upheaval have been long sown bu the actions of the 1% and their mis guided, often ignorant supporters.
The 1% never had to work a day in their life. You're confusing them with people that actually had to work to make a living and actually got a piece of the pie.
Maybe you should check your facts on some of the more prominent CEOs (of banks if you want to go that far.) Many started from nothing and worked their way to the top.
Just because someone worked their way to the top does not give them the right to strip others rights away or disobey/rewrite law. That's just absurd. If I had worked my way into a billionaire banker position - let's say honestly - then showed up on your doorstep and told you it was okay for me to dump sludge in your back yard because the congress people I payed off said so, and that you should be okay with that because I had worked for my billions, that would be fine for you? I hope to God not. Otherwise you're right. We should just give up.
Make your arguments sure, but don't do it at the expense of common sense man. Wrong is wrong whether you've earned your billions or not don't really enter into it.
Spot on.
'many'. What's many, exactly?
This pervasive fear to commit to anything means that you commit to nothing. That is why the movement seems so baseless to so many observing from outside. You're going to have to put ink to paper on some compelling ideas soon or I and many others will lose interest permanently. I don't need you to do my thinking for me, but if you can propose a reasoned and attractive vision of an improved world, then those of us with stable employment and not as much to complain about may be more willing to join you.
I don't believe there is a fear to commit to anything. Rather, we all know something is wrong but the only fix is a complete transformation, starting with the transformation of ourselves. If we remain in the box we will surely suffocate. A reasoned an attractive vision of an improved world is what you are asking for? How's this for starters? And I don't claim that all persons everywhere want this, but if you would argue these points I wonder what your idea of being human is. We want a world where people live in harmony. We want a world where resources are shared. We want a world where we collectively take care of each other. We want a world where war is not an option. We want a world where if you become ill, you don’t lose everything you worked hard for your entire life. We want a world where children are taught how to be human. We want a world where our differences don’t define us. We have to speak of it, live it, and convey it to others. If you don't get it, you will when you are seeking clean water and uncontaminated food.
"I don't need you to do my thinking for me, but.." you ask others to propose a "reasoned and attractive vision of an improved world"? I don't think this movement is any sort of 'bandwagon' to jump on unconsciously; neither is it univocal. It is definitely not an exercise in (continuing to) give away your agency to an other's articulation. I think the point of this movement is for the diverse voices of the 99% (including you) to articulate what they know, what they believe, and what they want to manifest < in all the different and unique ways that we know how (based on our own personal insights, research, life experience), and decide to put their resources into it. This is called learning how to talk as a global community in a participatory democracy. Without this kind of full-fledged discursive participation, how could we ever make the kinds of conscientious decisions we all deluded ourselves to expect of our governments? We have become so accustomed to personally irresponsible decision-making because of the sense of security/attachment to 'absolutes' (fed for consumer role making of course, and the ease of blaming others when it fails) that we are alien to the practice of articulating our own views/knowledge sharing/skills sharing/collective envisioning with one another directly. Being 'leaderless' gives us this opportunity proper<to develop our inter-human skills as global citizens. So continue to join in the discussions, and focus on articulating the improvements of you want to see. Be prepared to invest what resources you have to making that branch of the tree blossom and bear fruit...Eventually, those of similar project-minds will self-organize and we will really start to see things change on the material plane...we already are..peace and solidarity from Canada.
Thank you both for your replies.
I have spent a great deal of time thinking for myself about ideals that I want for our world and sharing those ideas with my peers and family. However, I reached a very important conclusion that I don't think that the present course of events is necessarily preventative to making improvements. There is not cause for sincere panic. I think that it is impossible to have the kinds of absolutely idealistic outcomes that @betsydoula mentioned. We may instead use our human ingenuity to strive toward some ideal of a better world. I am not so sure that you can say fairly that we do not have a world today where people share resources and live in harmony. There is a lot of competition and destruction, but there is a lot of shared interest that mitigates outright selfishness. I have a much more apologetic view of history that appreciates the fact that we are at an unprecedented moment of global interdependence. Just five hundred years ago such a world would seem preposterous.
I am seeking others' proposals as to what more I can do other than what I have already resolved to be doing. I have resolved to make the most of my intellectual and spiritual gifts by learning how to accomplish things effectively in the world. My vehicles for this currently are my job, my Masters study, and my personal relationships. One of the benefits of capitalism is that we don't have to ask permission from our peers to initiate a transformation in the world. If you want to conduct yourself by taking into account the value of natural and human resources, and by being a socially responsible corporate entity, then that is your choice. The people who do the most to change our world for the better have come down from pure idealism and make things happen. Our great leaders in history have this gift of doing, and you can take your pick from MLK, Ghandi, Steve Jobs, or whomever you like.
I am happy to meditate on our shared humanity and open myself to the experience of others; to hurt for their pain and to feel energized by their aspirations. At the end of the day we need to create actual brick-and-mortar institutions that can move a great deal of resources around our localities and possibly the globe. This takes more than idealism. It takes creative engineering on the ground. Trying to take it on all at once as a discontinuous jump from A to B is impossible and would wreak havoc on the most vulnerable.
So what I am asking for are some sketches that give a more tangible vision of things to consider for change. I am no longer at the point in my life where I am content to criticize in a purely idealistic sense without taking a risk on a plan of action. There is much to be said in favor of the world as it exists simply because it exists and functions to the extent that you and I get to be alive and have this conversation. This world is not pulling apart at the seams and we can make it better for ourselves and other people while we are here. That takes realizable ideas. It takes some pragmatism and some realism. It is the greatest gift of humanity that we have our agency bestowed upon us by our intelligence. That we can invent abstractions like carrying capacity, greenhouse effect, and others to understand and prevent our destruction is remarkable.
So enjoy the exhilaration of a philosophical pursuit but at some point that will have to translate into things that people can manage and interact with on a daily basis: cultural norms, laws, businesses, government entities, and so on.
You may only "occupy" during business hours (hours the 1% understand) is what they said. I am appalled. We Americans are very accustomed to our way of life. Picture a court telling Egyptians what they can do and during what hours. Hopefully our people will find what citizens of everywhere else find...commitment past what's convenient. Last night told me I will be absolutely donating copiously to the cause the very instant they get their direction together.
Egyptians are willing to die for the cause.
Per the POPS Privately Owned Public Space website:
Hours of access / nighttime closing By default, all privately owned public plazas are open to the public day and night, 24 hours. Nighttime closing of public plazas is permitted via City Planning Commission authorization.
Hours of access: Where a nighttime closing has been authorized, the minimum hours of public access are generally:
April 15 to October 31: 7:00 am – 10:00 pm November 1 to April 14: 7:00 am – 8:00 pm
http://home2.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/pops/plaza_standards.shtml#hours
I still don't understand what you guys are trying to achieve. Communism? Great idea but can never work in the real world. The end of capitalism, corporations and trading and selling securities? Taking the 1%'s wealth away and distributing it to everyone. A high salary for everyone including those who are uneducated and unqualified? This is really getting ridiculous. Get real. You think by shouting endlessly in a park that will happen? Instead of getting a bullshit liberal arts degree in college why didn't you study law, medicine or business. Don't blame the successful for your own shortcomings. A cashier or janitor doesn't deserve the salary of a doctor and are not entitled to owning a home and other luxuries. America is the land of opportunity, not entitlements or guarantees. The only reason blue collar workers had a decent life 50 years ago was because America was one of the only industrial manufacturing countries in the world after WWII. Times have changed and that standard of living for blue collar guys will NEVER return. Not here or anywhere. This is not "the man's" fault. This is called globalization and REALITY. Occupy that.
You talk as if globalization is a law of nature. Globalization, or corporate globalization, was designed and implemented by people in power designed to enrich themselves. The US is the market and could easily demand American corporations to pay higher wages elsewhere if they wish to sell their products here, instead, they're only concerned about the third world respecting their investor rights and so-called intellectual property. Same can be said of the WTO. Rules of globalization CAN be changed, like everything else.
It doesn't matter what it is. It has happened and will continue to happen. There is nothing this movement can do to stop that. OWS can not overthrow the government and that's what it would take to implement the changes you guys are looking for.
Why would they go through all that trouble just so an uneducated people can earn more money? It's over man. That's why a meaningful college education is a must. That means no liberal arts, psychology, art history, english rubbish. I can't believe the amounts of stupid kids taking loans to major in areas where they will be no better off than a high school dropout.
Well, luckily there are people like them who don't believe it's over like you seem to. I'm not against being pragmatic about your college education, I have a PhD in computer science, and have no trouble getting job offers. However, I recognize that not everyone is suited to study highly employable fields. Furthermore, I don't think the unemployment problem will be solved even if the whole country gets degrees in finance. It's true that radical policy changes akin to "overthrowing" the government would be needed to reverse this, but every little thing helps, like making sure the next "free-trade agreement" gets enough scrutiny from the labor side. As far as I'm concerned, for any little changes in the right direction to happen, there has to be a significant number of people at least raising a threat of more radical changes. OWS is currently the best hope for that.
Fighting against great big straw men must be sooo much fun.
Cashiers and janitors don't deserve a home?! Wow... Just wow.
Another thing: almost no doctor in America deserves the salary they take home. They don't deserve multiple sports cars worth +100,000 dollars or even a single 'mansion.'
You misinterpreted my comment. I didn't say they don't deserve a home. I stated "They aren't entitled to owning a home." In NYC for example, your average house costs north of $500k. Someone making $20/hour or less simply can not afford that and should not be allowed to finance those kinds of amounts. This is how we got into this mess in the first place. Blue collar and lower workers wanting to own a house no matter what. Sure the banks tricked them into signing with attractive variable APR offers, but it's not their fault these guys didn't know what fixed and variable APR are. All they saw were lower payments without realizing they could become much higher than the fixed payments would've been. So yes, in this era unless you have inherited property from your parents/family or you are a professional making north of $70-80k you have no business owning property. This is not discriminatory or racist, it's responsible and common sense.
And yes, doctors do deserve what they take home. They go through 8+ years of tough school sacrificing their life and free time while blue collar guys are already earning money and partying. They have incredibly expensive insurance costs due to malpractice both legitimate and fraudulent as well as high tuition that must be repaid. Without the salary incentive why would anyone want to do that? Just to be altruistic? Or do you think they should make the same as a bus driver, cop or elementary teacher? The less people who can do the job, the more money that job will offer. You can get a monkey/retard to be a cash register but not a lawyer or a doctor.
Everyone deserves a home, no matter what they make. Doctors do not deserve the money they make no matter how many years they went to school. They certainly don't make in France what they make here and they do quite well for themselves. Same in England.
Wow. You watched Sicko. You are so informed. Doctors do deserve the money and they will continue to have high salaries. Accept it.What makes you believe that everyone deserves to be able to buy a home? That's not true anywhere in the world. Property costs money, not handed out. Sorry that I don't think highly of cashiers and all the riff-raff in this country.
Concur. These jobs are not coming back. Blue collar has been permanently off shored!
Who writes these such beautiful posts? Kudos to him/her/them/us/99%ers!
Non violence means you do not hurt people. Non violence doesn't mean that you have to submit to any and all rules, laws, and court orders. I hope you guys will dare to be back tents and all, no matter what the courts say. The 1% should know that the only way to keep out OWS is for them to have police in the park 24/7 for the indefinite future, and that they can expect occupiers to move back in within minutes should they withdraw the police.
Daring someone to break the law so they can get their way is very childish. IMO, if they spend some of the money that has been donated to them and rent a spot they can sleep in their tents and people will take them seriously. Making the park a place where people are afraid to bring their children is not helpful. If they pay for their own security, lodging, food and toilet paper they will get more respect than they are now. I agree with many of their points but I think their sense of entitlement and bad manners are hurting the cause.
"The law" did not drop down from the sky and we shouldn't turn it into an idol to be worshiped. It is a tool, intended to promote peaceful and mutually beneficial relationships between people, and to prevent people from hurting others for their own benefit. As long as the law (and law enforcement) generally furthers those aims, by all means it should be followed. The question is whether that's still the case. Law can be twisted into an instrument of keeping some people down and keeping others (who aren't any better) at the top, this happens in all non-free countries for example. And if that happens in some place, not once or twice but all the time, the law should not be followed IMHO.
Also this movement is called "occupy wall street" not "say hello to wall street", right? I'd say that occupation implies breaking, or at least not particularly caring for, certain aspects of law. Name one country that makes it legal for other countries to occupy it!
Of course for anybody planning to disregard some laws, it is very important not to let things sink into anarchy. If you don't intend to follow the rules made by others, you must make and follow your own (strict) rules and you must make sure that people who simply want to "break the rules" for their own personal desire to create havoc, are kept out. Not an easy thing to do!
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Here's a petition:
http://www.dccc.org/pages/occupy
These comments illustrate the incredible naiveté of this movement...
"We are here because we believe a better world is possible. We are willing to endure mistreatment, if by doing so we can help re-enfranchise the 99% and reclaim our democracy from the stranglehold of Wall Street and the top one percent.
We will push back against billionaire Michael Bloomberg and any politician who wantonly tramples on proud American freedoms: freedom of the press, freedom of speech, and the freedom of Americans to peaceably assemble and petition for change."
What is this, a soap opera? Changing things requires hard work, an ability to focus on one goal, and a determined leader appointed by equally determined supporters. Tilting against windmills will change nothing, and the selfishness of the movement is pissing off the public.
Good Job OWS!!! The movement is stronger!! Energized!! They can take things but now its way beyond that now!! OWS You Rock!!
www.thrivemovement.com Please watch it
Still supporting the cause 100% ! Call for a General Nationwide Strike the day before ThanksGiving and continue for the next 5 days!
OccupySantaCruz (California) under siege wins federal court stay on injunction against encampment but Information center still under threat. May raid tonight.
Don't you understand, they have thrown the first punch. We must retaliate. The movement has just started and they are trying to crush it before it becomes a reality. We must escalate this to the next level and bring the fight to them. We must flood the park, the areas next to the park, the subway stations with our 99% and bring this city to a halt before they will take us seriously.
There comes a time when great change happens and a grand story must herald that change. From the self immolation of Thich Quang Duc, to the riots of Britain, and downfall of the European Union, we have to make our voices heard. Fight back !!!
Yes, but what about the large chunk of us, who are not in the 1%, who think the whole thing is ridiculous and don't want the kind of change you are proposing. You would need to get a majority, nationwide to accomplish any change. That doesn't seem to be happening.
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Never before have I been proud to be just a common person. The strength and determination I'm seeing and reading about is extremely profound and inspirational!
Please take time during your protest to realize that there is another 11% of the population strongly behind you. Although we are here legally, to come and join your protests could cause us to be deported, so most will stay at home and hope you can change something.
For the first 150 years of this countries existence WE HAD the right to vote, a right that was lost after the 14th and 19th amendments. The old guys in charge were worried that if Legal Immigrants were allowed to vote as well as black people and women, there would be no way they could keep control. So as the civil rights movement gained ground, it was stripped away from others. although we may fight and die for this country, and we all pay Taxes here. We have no representation, and to protest that fact get's us thrown out.
Please take a moment to include us in your democracy, at least in thought.
http://www.migrationinformation.org/USfocus/display.cfm?ID=265
a large group would be a significant number of the populace.
Occupy Wall Street will grow even more -- Thursday a big day -- if any one at Washington Square Park 12:30ish walk over and join our short protest in front of St. Vincent’s
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
ST. VINCENT’S ACTIVISTS JOIN #OCCUPYWALLSTREET IN DAY OF MASS, NON-VIOLENT DIRECT ACTION
Contact : Louis Flores, 1-646-400-1168, lflores22@gmail.com
New York, NY (Nov. 15, 2011) – Activists from Hands Off St. Vincent’s are proud to join #OccupyWallStreet, the labor movement, and the global movement for economic and social equality during the November 17th Day of Action in New York City.
Members of the Healthcare for the 99% Working Group from #OccupyWallStreet will join this action. Activists are undertaking their action on :
DATE : Thursday, November 17, 2011 TIME : 1:00 – 1:30 p.m. PLACE : St. Vincent’s Hospital, Seventh Avenue South and West 11th Street
Activists will stage a SPEAK-OUT and a DIE-IN.
Activists want to force billionaire Bill Rudin from the Rudin Management Company to take the lead in building a Trauma Level 1, full-service hospital to replace St. Vincent’s.
Did you know that the residents of the Lower West Side of Manhattan below 57th Street have no hospital ?
Did you know that Bill Rudin wants to offer us a two-bed “hospital” in a phony health care facility ?
For more information about Hands Off St. Vincent’s, please like our page on Facebook :
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hands-off-St-Vincents/156531864396467
For more information about the Healthcare for the 99% Working Group, please visit the blog :
http://owshealthcare.wordpress.com/
I am with you guys. This speech gave me chills. I love you all and am down there when I can, and tweeting & spreading the message on facebook at every other moment. I love you guys so much. You cannot evict any idea whose time has come.
Hang in there guys! Artists are coming! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FM3KR9dEOk&feature=channel_video_title
You guys ROCK.....they will keep kicking you out & you keep going back. That's the only way to win. This can take months &/ or years but we will all win. Even the police.
I'm really surprise that it took the 1% so long to sic the cops on you. You need to get some flowers, it really confuse the cops when you give them a flower.;)
it is a simple thing for people to rally lock step behind the establishment and defend it. it takes more thought and consideration to be critical of the status quo and imagine a better world, a better status quo. freedom and liberty are not static, they are defined by the times that you live in. if you accept previous generations definitions then that is exactly what they are, outdated definitions. every generation has the historical right to re-define freedom and re-define liberty or else they live under the tyranny of the past. the real american people are behind you 100%.
If Its our right to protest and demonstrate. And if shelter is basic human right. Then why can we not sleep in tents during our protest/demonstration? It there a time limit on a protest? NO! So if you need to have shelter for the night while you protest/demonstrate IT IT YOU basic HUMAN RIGHT!
because shelter is not a right.
But if enough people agree that it is, it will become one.
Because it makes you look like children at summer camp. Why does is have to be a slumber party? The growing consensus is that the protesters are a bunch of spoiled kids on an adventure with their Ipads. It doesn't lend much strength to the cause when the protesters appear too lazy to even commute to the park, where they will sit and do nothing all day. I also believe that shelter is a basic human right. Effecting change requires some sacrifices, and you don't necessarily get to pick and choose what they will be. At some point the 99% are going to have to decide whether OWS is helping us or making our jobs tougher.
It is not helping me. Right now, if two protest groups faced each other 1-the OWS and 2-the taxpayers of the 99%, I would be behind the latter. The party should have ended a long time ago and I can only fault the OWS leaderless leaders from not stopping it a long time ago. You simply gave unlimited fuel to your enemy and it is now coming back at you.
Just a thought: "You cannot evict an idea" sounds a lot better than "You can not evict an idea whose time has come." I know part of the idea is to aschew slogans for a richer, more in depth dialogue, but still. You Can Not Evict an Idea is strong. It has considerable power. Anyway, good stuff, keep the faith etc. Good luck out there and stay safe!
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the more you put the shits up them, the more you know you are winning.... i just set up a blog on direct forms of democracy - have a look if you are interested... samplocracy.wordpress.com
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Your "movement" is a loss. You have become a 0.1% that whines and shows no ambition to work for the change you seek. You are mis-located. Your complaints are platitudes. You have no solutions. You want a free ride from those who have mades something of themselves. You blanket blame 'the rich' for simply being rich - assuming that they're corrupt. You ask for democracy, yet simply occupy a commercial zone, instead of working to affect the democratic process we have in place.
Pathetic kids playing useful idiot to socialist radicals. Beware the treasonous intent of your organizers. Our system works, and you have cast it away as archaic and ineffective, asking for more corruption inherent in government largess. Thankfully, you are an insignificant minority, and our great nation has moved on from your pandering.
Occupy Your Ass.
You need to have FLASH PROTESTS at key locations, were you catch everyone by surprize. Like Grand Central Station,Times Square,United Nations, Supreme Court, this would really get their attention (get them were it hurts). ALBANY!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE ELEMENT OF SURPRIZE IS A VERY USEFUL TOOL...............
Get a job, Go to work and become functioning members of society. Stop wasting the courts time and the time of the NYPD. You are not affecting wall street, you are affecting the judicial, social, and Public safety systems. Taking resources away from people who can actually benefit and need them. GO HOME AND STOP WASTING THE WORLDS TIME.
How about you stop wasting your own time posting here and go hide in your corner.
Do any of you ever wake up in the middle of the night (After the drugs wear off) and think....God am I really THAT fucked up....If not you should...
Glad I don't live in a democracy.
wow...negative points for pointing out the truth.
you all a bunch of loser, lowlife, fucks who should all die
There ya go. Just without the tents. Protesting is a tough job.
I am so glad they got these hippy-wanna-be's out of the park...most of them have no clue as to why they are protesting...the rest are merely lazy bums who think that society owes them something, even if they contribute nothing.
Wasnt it nice seeing the park cleaned up? The filth and stench had to go. Made me proud to see our fine NYPD put a stop to the trashing of the park.
You are sad!
"You cannot evict an idea whose time has come."
This statement is just plain stupid thus does represent the overall OWS mentality very well.
I've never tried to "evict" an idea,has anybody else?
"I've never tried to play a stupid semantics game and I don't know what analogies are."
That's basically what your comment says.
You're right I don't like to play stupid semantics. Sorry you took it so hard. I mean,if you're the creator of that line I can see how you would be sensitive to criticism. After all you probably anguished for weeks to put the little gem together.
Isn't it from V for Vendetta?!
months actually
A sense of humor is a good thing. Great comeback.
wow, it's painfully obvious that progmarx is incapable of figurative thought. if you don't have anything nice to say, DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL!!.
There are many of us who are not part of the 1%, who disagree with the movement. We feel it will do nothing more that further hurt the economy. My wife has been a teacher for nearly 25 years, and I have been in IT for about that long. We feel this who thing is ridiculous. All you are doing is getting in the way of people trying to go to work and get their own lives taken care of. Now, small businesses in the area of the OWS are hurting due to loss revenue, many have laid off workers, and some have been threatened for not giving food for free to members of OWS. There are many in NY near the park who have talked to the press about protesting the OWS movement to salvage their business.
Who do you think put the economy in the state it is in? Go watch the documentary "Meltdown" it is a four part documentary about what exactly happened and the people that caused this mess. High profile interviews and in depth information. No one is questioning that you and your wife work hard, but would you rather let manipulative thugs ruin this nation or do something about it? Ask yourself.
Sub-prime mortgages were not a one-party deal. On the other side were idiots with meager salaries trying to buy property that they wouldn't be able to afford in a hundred years. Stop being so biased and see things from both sides.
Oh, wake up or shut up for good.
This is a great example of the OWS mentality. Don't agree or "shut up for good". Beautiful. So... hmmm.... fascist?
Don't feed the trolls. Nothing you say will "convnce" them. They just want to waste your time/ebergy and piss you off. It's just a game to them...or worse, they are paid to be trolls.
I would advise you to follow your own advice.
you're on a roll, buddy! keep it up!
Hey guess what, no one cares what you think. I certainly don't, you can either help change the world or get out of the way.
We must first reach deep within ourselves to change our very essence before we can change the world around us.
Agreed, although, the cops can evict their dumbasses off the streets, hope that happens soon..