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Too Small to Fail: Occupy Mosier

Posted 2 years ago on Nov. 6, 2011, 5:27 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

occupy mosier

There are no stoplights, the only gas station closed years ago and there is not a single multinational corporation within five miles. With a population of just 430, Mosier, Oregon will become the smallest U.S. town to have an active Occupy camp. Participants from Mosier and other small communities of the Columbia Gorge are working to highlight their vision for a family-friendly camp that includes music, movies and round-table discussions with the community. While the group has stressed its solidarity with Occupy camps in urban cities across the United States, Occupy Mosier is adopting tactics and strategies they say reflect Wasco County’s rural community values.

“Rural communities have been hit harder than anyone by the policies the Occupy movement has formed to fight,” said Corie Lahr, Mosier resident. “If we do this right, we can attract a lot of rural people to the movement.”

Multiple speakers, workshops and movies are being planned in Mosier on a range of issues from reining in corporate control over U.S. politics and an shrinking an oversized military budget to supporting local credit unions, fighting plans to ship coal through the Columbia Gorge to China, and addressing wage inequality and related issues.

“People have asked us if we are getting a permit,” said Lahr. “We had to laugh because we don’t have sidewalks, let alone a city park where people could gather on city property for a protest. We are doing everything we can to communicate with the City of Mosier, public safety officials and the public about what we are planning and our goals.”

The group expects 15 or more tents to be set up with hundreds of people visiting the camp over the next week. The group has also invited local area Tea Party activists to the camp to share tea and round-table discussion about areas where the Tea Party and Occupy movements can agree.

“We think planning a 7-day camp and allowing for the possibility of another camp in a nearby town is a good way to spread awareness about the issues Wasco County cares about, such as Wall Street’s control of our economy and corporate power in our government.,” says ten-year Mosier resident Brent Foster.

Cara Shufelt, director of the Rural Organizing Project, is working with over 30 rural communities across Oregon who are involved organizing around the Occupy movement. ““Rural and small town Oregonians are indentifying with the message of the occupy movement. As far as we can tell, Oregon has more rural communities involved in Occupy actions than any other state. The Occupy Mosier camp is really unique,” said Shufelt. “We believe Mosier is the smallest U.S. town with an Occupy camp.”

Bo Vanderkloot lives across the Columbia River from Mosier in Bingen, WA. Vanderkloot is a single father motivated to join the Occupy Mosier camp because of his banks refusal to refinance his home loan following his divorce. “When the bank told me I was going to lose the home my son was born in, it was a real motivator to get involved,” says Vanderkloot. “I know I don’t agree with many of the National Tea Party’s positions, but I think some of my Tea Party neighbors would agree that kicking me and my son out of our house even though I make every mortgage payment isn’t right.”

As with other Occupy protests, the Occupy Mosier and Occupy the Gorge participants have a diversity of primary interests. Most participants share goals such as reducing corporations’ power over politics and communities, prioritizing spending on health care and education over runaway military spending, increasing environmental protections, and reforming national trade, monetary and financial policies to better support all people in our communities, regardless of race, class or gender.

While Mosier will serve as a base camp, activities are being planned throughout the Gorge from November 4 -11. Saturday, November 5 at AM, Occupy Mosier will travel to the “Break Up With Your Bank” event at the Dalles Bank of America where people will close their accounts in protest of policies that bankrupt and foreclose on local community members. “If we can organize an Occupy event in Mosier, anyone in any community can be a part of this movement,” says Lahr.

For more information: http://occupythegorge.org/

187 Comments

187 Comments


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[-] 8 points by sqrltyler (207) 2 years ago

"The group has also invited local area Tea Party activists to the camp to share tea and round-table discussion about areas where the Tea Party and Occupy movements can agree."

This is what I'm talking about. We must all unite to win our country back.

Government corruption is the very heart of the matter. We will never have a government of the people, for the people, until we get all money out of politics.

If we make that our primary goal, the entire nation will rally, and we can institute real change.

[-] 3 points by newearthorder (295) 2 years ago

Tax-payer funded elections are the only way to go. It could be done for a 10 cent additional tax on gasoline. Politicians would not be allowed to take any donations from anyone. They wouldn't even be allowed to use their own money.

In this way the politicians would be owned by all of the people, instead of whatever corporation or special interest group that could shovel the most cash into their coffers.

This will be a huge task, but it must be our first bold step.

[-] 2 points by sqrltyler (207) 2 years ago

Completely agree newearthorder. Publicly funded elections are the only way, and 1 cent tax could easily fund it. Any candidate who gets a required amount of signatures gets equal airtime for free on each of the networks. Campaigns should be limited to 60 days.

[-] 1 points by newearthorder (295) 2 years ago

That's the British way. Let's all get on board the HMS Liberty!

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4480) 2 years ago

Excellent idea. Also, think of all the billions of advertising dollars that Murdock gets from the current system. Best Regards, Nevada

[-] 0 points by newearthorder (295) 2 years ago

Awesome, Nevada,..this must be our first bold steps. Nothing will change until this happens

[-] 3 points by kristianb21 (33) 2 years ago

Great point! This is awesome I we the people will stay together, big or small we can't fail. I love how Occupywallst shows love to everyone not just the big cities.

We need a Occupy Channel for those who do not have internet access. Together we can have our own "mainstream network."

[-] 2 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 2 years ago

This is how its supposed to work. If every occupy assembly did it this way, we'd win over the majority and we'd win the day. Unfortunately, peaceful assembly like this, is not what most of our other camps are doing. The others will deteriorate, escalate and lose our message in the mayhem.

[-] 2 points by Occupytheimf (134) 2 years ago

Right on target. global populist actions on the ground achieving political changes 99% wanted all along but croney illegitimate felons failed to provide

[-] 2 points by ediblescape (235) 2 years ago

2012 is coming, Keep OWS going.

[-] 0 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Yeah, just found this video on how similar the Tea Party is to OWS, go Kochs!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOCHAv25uTw

[-] 1 points by ediblescape (235) 2 years ago

I can not watch youtube in China.

[-] -2 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

OWS is the gift that keeps on giving for those of us who want to defeat Obama in 2012. Please keep going!

[-] 1 points by sqrltyler (207) 2 years ago

So FreeMarkets, who are you voting for? We all know the chosen candidate from both parties will just be another corporate puppet, so who are you backing?

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

I like Cain, but I don't think he can control Congress. I like Newt a lot, if he can control his RINO tendencies.

[-] 1 points by sqrltyler (207) 2 years ago

Both of those candidates have massive corporate funding thru PAC's, so I can't vote for either. My $2,500 contribution cannot compete with the millions they're getting from global corporations, so they won't represent the American people.

Any other choices who aren't owned by special interests?

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

I don't share your pathological fear of corporations. I don't really mind PACS. So long as the actual voting process is not corrupted, I'm fine. I think crony capitalism comes from giving the government too much power, and too much latitude. No one would bother to lobby the government if the government couldn't deliver the goods. Obama's loan to Solyndra should have been impossible: He should not have such a budget. A limited government is much harder to corrupt. This is why I think OWS is trying to treat the symptom rather than the cause. The Tea Party is trying to cure the disease.

[-] 1 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Yeah, just found this video on how similar the Tea Party is to OWS, go Kochs! Save Corporate America!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOCHAv25uTw

Crush the plebes.

[-] 0 points by newearthorder (295) 2 years ago

Why is it no one can come up with one piece of legislation or law that President Obama has signed into law that has harmed the economy in any way in the past years. All I ever hear is baseless rhetoric and hate speech. I don't agree with everything he has done either, but voting for anyone running from the other side and we will look like a third world country in no time.

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago
  1. Obamacare
  2. Dodd-Frank
  3. Cash for Clunkers
  4. Stimulus
  5. Unemployment Extension to 99 weeks
  6. NLRB attempt to shut down SC Boeing plant
  7. "Green" boondoggles (uncountable)

Need I keep going? He and his junior cadets have no concept of economics. He is fomented a capital strike among businesses that will lift the day he is voted out of office and replaced by a business-friendly republican. We will see a huge burst of growth.

[-] 0 points by newearthorder (295) 2 years ago

No one can prove any of those items actually harmed the economy. I think most economists would say they helped the economy, it's just that the recession is so deep that it wasn't noticed. It's like taking an asprin for a migrane.

Cash for Clunkers was more of a pollution thing. Obamacare has not really gone into effect yet, and the CBO says it will actually save taxpayers money. The stimulus wasn't big enough. Dodd-Frank didn't go far enough. We need to get rid of derivitives all-together. I'm not happy about Solyndra, but not all of the facts are in yet.

Obama didn't sell arms to Iran, under the table, during an arms embargo, he didn't cut taxes on the rich in half and then raise taxes on the poor and middle class, and he didn't murder millions of innocent citizens of Iraq.

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

"most economists" agree? Not likely. The handful of Keynesian dinosaurs that haunt the administration might agree.

Cash for Clunkers had no effect on pollution, other than to increase it: Taking a functional car off the road to replace it with a new car means you incur all the pollution of making the new car: WASTEFUL. It had negative economic impact, as widely reported.

Obamacare has had the desired effect of driving up health care costs to business, and of making business afraid to hire. The ginned up "cost savings" evaporated when Sebelius admitted that the $80B CLASS act was not viable a few weeks ago.

He is a disaster. It will take a decade to undo the damage he has done.

[-] 0 points by Occupytheimf (134) 2 years ago

See? Even the dunces are seeing the light albeit dimly

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[-] 1 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

Unfortunately your gatherings (peaceful yes) also draw in stupid thugs who like to blend in with the crowd and then act like an ass. The "Bullies with guns" are just there to keep the peace and try to control the "stupid thugs" that mix in at your gatherings and ensure that normal daily activity is not hindered by your presence. I have also watched enough videos of people screaming in officers faces, refusing to move out of the way of officers vehicles, hitting officers vehicles, and even pushing over officers motorcycles. How long would you be able to put up with that before you punched someone in the face? If you tell me you could take it, then I call you a liar. Stage your protest, (and please keep the stupid ones from acting like spokespersons, they are only hurting your cause) (such as,"but the bullies with guns cannot keep it non-violent"), but if the police say that an area needs to be cleared then clear out. I am a Veteran who believes in your right to protest, I just believe that the bad comming from this will prevent you all from making any changes. And please pick up your trash. All gathering sites look as if a dump truck exploded there. Also, please consider the fact that keeping the police busy dealing with you guys is preventing them from chasing down the real criminals. I think you are wasting your time, but I agree that it is your right, just think about some of the things I have said. Dion

[-] 1 points by Gabbles (18) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Dio, what about Scott Olsen? And the protestors who were trying to help Scott Olsen? In the videos posted, it shows he was standing, passively, pretty far away from any police force of any kind. And when he had fallen, and a crowd of folks ran up to help him, a police officer is clearly shown to be throwing a tear gas canister into their cluster. Isn't that shocking to you? Isn't that one incident on its own enough to make you question the level of accountability of police force? And then maybe that investigation will lead you to ask more questions...

[-] 0 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

Gabbles, You have to look at the big picture. I am not saying that all the officers are perfect angles, because there is always a bad apple in every bunch (on both sides). To constantly put yourselves in officer’s faces, screaming at them and pushing them is going to increase your chances of running into that one who would rather club you than listen to you. The majority of both sides are trying to keep this peaceful but it is not a perfect world.

[-] 1 points by Gabbles (18) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

So you think the officers have an excuse to lose their temper?

I am sorry but your logic is skewed.

It is unacceptable to disregard the individual actions of police officers and excuse one based on the premise that not all of them are bad.

[-] 2 points by Gabbles (18) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

In United States constitutional law, police power is the capacity of the states to regulate behavior and enforce order within their territory for the betterment of the general welfare, morals, health, and safety of their inhabitants.

Police who act as individuals, making the choice to become violent against peaceful citizens, should NOT be protected by the bureau that employs them. There is a bigger picture here, and it seems to me that you, are in fact, the one missing it.

[-] 0 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

Gabbles, If you do not want to get beaten by the police, then quit screaming in their faces. If I spent an hour screaming in your face you would want to punch me. If you put yourself in the position to get beat do not cry about it afterwards. Simple as that, quit your crying. If you buy one lottery ticket your chances of winning are small, if you buy a thousand tickets then your chances of winning increase. Pretty simple logic actually, but I am not surprised that you do not understand.

[-] 1 points by Gabbles (18) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

I think the detail you are overlooking is that in many of these cases, specifically in Scott Olsen's and the people who were trying to help him, is that the assaulted were not even interacting with officers, a very far cry from "screaming in their faces."

I am not crying. I am attempting civil discourse.

[-] 0 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

You keep talking about one incident. I already admitted that not every officer is a nice guy. The more you guys interact with them the greater chances you will encounter a bad one. I have witnessed many videos of protesters doing the wrong thing. Not all of you are doing the wrong thing, but some are. It works for both sides. It is a part of life that has been there and will always be there. The best thing you guys can do is try to keep the idiots away from the police and the cameras.

[-] -1 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Dio1313, there are 2 aspects to what you describe, and niether are as they appear. 1) The thugs are the product of social engineering over 30 years to create American males that think that anarchy is desireable. This was generated by fantasy promoted in various media and on the street by false leaders. That influence, by example, begat the behaviors you talk about.----

2) OWS has not defined the laws they are working to uphold. They have not taken the high ground. Essentially, the OWS message, in other words more comprehensive than you will find is "The past fifty years of infiltration of the government has removed most pretense of constitutional government and we need to unify behind article 5 and demand a convention.-------

Unfortunately there is no discussion from OWS on article 5, our first and last constitutional right. Correct, if we do not use it now in defense of the constitution, we and it are going to be destroyed. Otherwise your advice is good and I hope it is repeated and heeded. I really appreciate a veteran that speaks as you do. This page is assembled for the express purpose of sharing strategy that will work to defend the constitution and restore constitutional government.-------

http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html

[-] 1 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

ChristopherABrownART5 Thank you for your knowledgeable, mature, and honest reply. I admit that I am not in a position to speak hard one way or the other because I am not fully informed on all the subjects presented, nor do I have the time to be. I do believe that pay scales are justified. If you want to work hard and dedicate your life to a specific career then chances are you will succeed. I also understand that being qualified does not mean that the jobs will be there for you. I have worked full time since age of 17 and I have served in the armed forces two different times. I will never feel that I am capable of handling a CEO position. The stress, the hundreds of thousands of lives that depend on your decisions, all sounds like way too much for me and I would never claim to be a candidate for CEO of anything. I am not qualified and neither are 99% of the protesters involved with OWS. As wrong as it may seem to most, I find it amusing that people who have the time to "Occupy" should also have the time to better their personal situation. The saddest part is the videos of complete idiots that get caught on film with absolutely nothing intelligent to say. I am not for "OWS” I think it is a complete waste of time. It will do as much for change as the war protesters did to prevent war in the Middle East. Just a waste of time. This is just my opinion; please feel free to do what you all feel is right, just try to keep the stupid ones off camera.

[-] 2 points by sgcase (8) from Carson City, NV 2 years ago

Thank you for your service Dio1313. I don't want to be a CEO either. If you think this is a complete waste of time, why are you here? You don't have time to educate yourself but, you have time to decide you are against OWS and to disparage the movement? By the way, OWS is also wasting our time on fighting for the veterens benefits you have earned. You're welcome.

[-] 0 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

I had my veteran’s benefits before this started and I will have them when it is over. I am here for a couple of reasons. True, I do not believe that you guys will accomplish what you are aiming for. At the same time, this is HUGE. I am starting to believe that you guys might actually bring on SOME changes. Visiting this site has allowed me to see that there are some intelligent individuals involved in this action. Too many of the stupid ones get caught on camera and hurt your cause. Causing disruption to the people who are just trying to go about their daily lives hurts your cause. Videos that show your occupy sites looking like a couple garbage trucks exploded there hurt your cause. I am not here to act like an ass, I am here to learn, and understand, and try to point out some issues that you guys should really pay attention to. And remember that the police could be spending their time chasing the real criminals instead of standing around watching over you.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Certain socialist type measures do work. The success of unions shows this. Unfortunately we have lived with a false economy for so long we no longer know what a real one is. If we've not careful we'll have the corporations pretending to teach us:) -

As far as the internet media cognitive infiltration, good advice, but nothing will offset that they are not presenting strategy that will gain authority to meet demands. It painfully shows a socialist agenda over one that might fly and protect the constitution. It painfully divides the confused Americans that cannot see OWS is indeed trying to support the constitution, it sure snivels when it's rights are violated, (and should) but what is sad is that the fully rightous position of standing for defense of the constitution by demanding article 5, which quite literally insulates them from probably 80% of the legal pressure and about the same in social pressure while making the infiltrations show as support for treason, because they are attacking defenders standing socially.

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[-] -1 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 2 years ago

Occupy Congress should be the primary goal. Remove all Congress,starting with Beiner.

[-] 3 points by yarichin (269) 2 years ago

Republicans and Democrats are not the problem. Look at the office of the Chief of Staff of the White House for the past 11 years. Goldman Sachs, Freddie Mac, Automobile Manufacturers Association, Chase JP Morgan, they have been the CHIEFS OF STAFF since Clinton left office. GOOGLE IT! Private banks in multiple countries own our Federal Reserve Bank and therefore our money. They loan fake money(Government IOU's) to our government using printing presses owned by our own Treasury Department. Then (this is the cool part) they charge interest to the government for printing the governments IOU's on government owned printing presses. The interest is payable only in dollars. The only way to pay it back is to have more money printed, and since our currency is not based on anything. We just have to have more printed. It never ends.

[-] 1 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 2 years ago

The American Dream by The Provocatuer Network is a good video to see inreference to wallstreet,the federal treasury and Congress. A few of your points are in that video. Ocuppy Congress

[-] 1 points by Occupytheimf (134) 2 years ago

If 99% arent there nobody else should. Occupy the white house

[-] 0 points by jgrace (20) 2 years ago

End the Fed!

[-] 1 points by bettersystem (170) 2 years ago

Spread the word to replant the "garden of eden" across the earth..

watch http://www.hulu.com/watch/151119/the-end-of-poverty

very important move..

http://wesower.org

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[-] 1 points by Jonas541 (72) 2 years ago

I cannot for the life of me understand why people hate Obama so much and loved Bush? What has Obama done that is so bad? Why dont you complain about Bush's lies or Cheney's touture? Bush wasted 1 trillion dollars in Iraq, how is this any better then anything that Obama has done?

[-] 0 points by LoneStar1 (4) 2 years ago

Have you looked at what Obama has wasted? Not saying Bush didn't do his part but come on.....open your eyes

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[-] 7 points by sylrse (38) 2 years ago

It's about the joy- the joy of finally having a voice- the joy of people coming together with this common voice, repressed for so long. It doesn't matter if we live in a city or in BFE- we are in this together. The homeless living on the streets, be it due to choice or necessity, the families forced out of their homes, or the wall street workers given their pink slips can, and have been, united. The disillusionment of doing what we were told was right then losing our homes, jobs, credit rating, then, to add insult to injury, being discounted as if we don't exist because we are not contributing to a profit line, needs to end. More power to those not in high density areas. They need a voice, too.

[-] 10 points by ARealNewYorker (227) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

I hear you, man. One of the most regularly repeated things I hear around Zuccotti Park is the feeling that finally - FINALLY - everyone's found people who aren't just willing to hear from them, but actually interested in what they have to say. I'm a pretty lucky guy, so I have nothing personal to worry about, but I can't stomach it anymore to live in a world where people are dispossessed, humiliated, and then blamed for their circumstances (in my more bombastic moods, I usually say "I'm tired of my comfortable house being built on a mound of corpses"). It's disgusting and I'm so glad that finally people are fighting back.

[-] 4 points by sylrse (38) 2 years ago

Thank you so much for replying- its good to have a one-on-one with someone who is in the thick of things- I feel so alone up here. I wish I could be physically part of OWS. I find it ironic you're statement, "I'm tired of my comfortable house being built on a mound of corpses", and I understand what you mean. Yet for me, I have to give up my rural property to the bank because I can't live there anymore due to the depressed economy (Nevada). I took a job out of state to survive. My 'corpses' are dogs I've rescued over the years who are buried on what was once my land. Am I less significant for rescuing dogs people felt they had to 'dump' in the dessert (usually in the summer when the tempatures are 100+ without food or water) because of 'events' that didn't give them a choice of keeping their pets or having a place to live? I gave these dogs a home for years, and buried them myself when their time came. Now I have to abandon them to the bank. Yes, they are dead and gone, but I don't feel I have kept my promise of keeping them safe forever, just like the rest of us. No one feels safe in this environment. I can't do much for OWS other than give my support here. More power to all.

[-] 3 points by ARealNewYorker (227) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Well, hang in there. There's no reason to feel like you're not a part of this just because you're at a physical remove. Are there any Occupies anywhere nearby? The small ones are connected to the larger movement, and even one visit does wonders for people (really - I'm pretty involved in one of the discussion groups and newcomers and passersby tell me this all the time). I'm sorry to hear about your issues with your property. It's a shame that a guy did everything he was supposed to and because of factors beyond his control he has to leave it all behind. But we're all in this together, and OWS is behind you.

[-] 4 points by GetAngry (35) from Warren, MI 2 years ago

I always thought the Tea Party and OWS were polar opposites. Isn't the Tea Party a Koch funded initiative?

[-] 4 points by invient (360) 2 years ago

It is now. It was not in the beginning.

OWS : get money out of politics TEA : smaller government, and low taxes

they are mutually exclusive goals, I would gander that getting money out of politics would help form a smaller government.

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

So did you mean that they are "not" mutually exclusive goals?

[-] 2 points by invient (360) 2 years ago

woops! Yes I meant "not"

edit: I would also like to add, on the lower taxes part... it will depend on the culture. Here in Colorado we just had a proposition defeated that would have raised taxes on everyone by 0.5%, to pay for education. Apparently we do not value education in this state as much as I thought.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

If American education is failing as badly as is being portrayed by such a great number of the media outlets, etc., we better come up with a better solution than more money, a solution we have tried repeatedly since the 1960-80/s and even into today. Just because you value something doesn't translate to monetary value or more spending - please stop for a minute and look back over the past 41 years to see how this approach is working out overall. Maybe the voters are tying to tell the "spend more" crowd that they are on the wrong track - what do they have to do to get this point across other than to stand up and say "NO". I would not go near this issue without experience in education and recognition of the growing disparity between dollars spent and student success. How much more money do we throw at education before the system totally fails.

[-] 1 points by invient (360) 2 years ago

The simple fact of the matter is if you under fund something, it tends to do badly. I believe there are deeper problems in the education system than money. For instance, I can see some value in testing but there is far too much of it in todays education system... I think a far better path would be tests to gauge the teacher (to adjust her curriculum, not necessarily to decide to fire him/her), that do not factor into the grade of the student, and the students grade is determined solely on homework and a series of group collaborative projects during the semester/year...

I think most of our model of education is wrong... but we clearly underfund education when teachers have to buy anything out of pocket...http://thejournal.com/articles/2010/07/08/teachers-spend-1.3-billion-out-of-pocket-on-classroom-materials.aspx

[-] 2 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I think the whole method of teaching is wrong in general. Schools that do a much better job of teaching applicable skills are the Rudolf Steiner schools. Yes, they are private schools, but their style of teaching could be followed. The curriculum follows a more hands-on approach that integrates the arts and that inspires creativity and more involvement and input from the students. They use the Waldorf Curriculum.

My massage therapist used to teach at one of the schools, and one of his daughters went there. He said one assignment his daughter did in one of her classes was taking a computer apart and then learning how to put it back together correctly, so that it worked and to learn what makes a computer work. I've never heard of such an approach in public schools.

I went to four public schools growing up, and I found myself very bored and unchallenged most of the time, and a lot of times, creativity was spurned. I find that the way most classes are taught doesn't ignite the creativity of the student, and it's more of a lecture approach. I think students need to be more actively involved in each subject, rather than being lectured to the whole time.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

I believe that your first statement lacks merit. Under funding something does not guarantee bad results any more than overfunding guarantees superior results. For instance - the very best teacher in most schools is paid the same as very worst. Underfunding the good teacher continues to produce superior results. Overfunding the worst teacher does not produce superior results.

I agree with your statement regarding too much testing in todays' educational system. This includes both diagnostic and achievement types of tests. Every since Title I in the 1960's this time has increased more and more taking away prime teaching time from the classroom without adding any time back into the system.

My wife and I are or have been teachers. We regularly spent from our own resources to promote learning in the classroom. Sometimes because funds weren't available but more often because we needed the purchased items immediately to meet the instructional plans. A lot of this problem may be more administrative than anything else. As a principal,, our school always had "open accounts" at grocery stores, arts and craft stores, lumber yards, and any other sources that teachers and students might need quickly.

I have never had a job where I did not spend some amount of my resources to further my job performance, even if it was a better pen to write with.

Our model of education has undergone tremendous change during the past few years. All of a sudden, it seems that we have lost "teachers" in droves. These "teachers" being, parents, janitors, grandparents, neighbors, religious organizations, etc. etc. etc. And we have replaced them with a two pronged plug hooked onto a TV set or game box. Too much of our education is confined to the hours between school day start and school day end. We need to do some real deep thinking about what has really changed in the life of that child. I fully believe that all adults in the life of that child are teachers and I clearly see a change that is not promoting superior education in America.

I was the principal of a school with 800 students and over 200 teachers. These teachers wore the hats of bus drivers, cooks, aids, classroom teachers, janitors, parents, foster grandparents, and anyone else who even came near receiving a check for work done at that school. It was all about teaching all the time by everyone. Great extension of this into local government leaders, and everyone else who had any contact with that child at any time. Everyone in that environment was a teacher to that child and this extended well beyond the last bell of the school day.

[-] 1 points by invient (360) 2 years ago

I agree with pretty much all of your sentiments.

I did not say it guarantee, I use the word tends, implying likelihood. Teachers are usually motivated by mor than just money, and for this reason they can make strides in under funded situations. There is a level of under funding that will, regardless of the teachers motivation, cause them to fail. The extreme would be 0.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Beg to differ again. My daughter is a certified teacher. Her salary is $0.00 and she has three full time students.

And I did consider your use of the work "tends". I gave it the same weight as "decapitation tends to lead to death".

Thanks for your reply, less the name calling of most others around here. Civility is appreciated as are your insights.

[-] 1 points by invient (360) 2 years ago

To you as well.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Back on the road today. I just had the great privilege of driving from the southwest to Chicago and back. I really needed that trip to renew my faith in the American people. Parks without protests, people at work, help wanted signs, clear and cloudy skies and everywhere, the greatest most friendly people in the world. It is a great country to live in.

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

Spending money is not the same thing as progress. We spend vast amounts of money on public education. What we need is 100% voucher system to create incentives for quality.

Before I get flamed (as usual) for being a "right winger", note that this system is used in SWEDEN, and is very popular and successful.

[-] 2 points by invient (360) 2 years ago

I do not think money is the only incentive in life. This view that money is the only thing that motivates, is in my opinion a simplistic view of human nature. I do not know anything about the voucher system, so in this regard I will defer my judgement.

My socialist tendencies are about to show themselves, dont explode! The public sector is not for profit, the private sector is for profit, this implies some of the money in a voucher system is going to go into the corporate coffers. Is this not inherently going to lead to less money to teach the children? Also, what happens to a student that inherently require more help, such as disabled or mentally deficient students... I assume the voucher is the same for everyone, otherwise it would be arbitrarily dividing and stratifying the student body, but this would not reflect the increased costs of dealing with disabled or mentally deficient students.

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

Public sector organizations have no feedback mechanism to regulate how they spend money. Profit is that feedback information. Competition is the mechanism. The schools compete for market share - profit is just how they keep score. In competing, they learn to recognize who their customers are: Parents.

Non-profits, by the way, reap plenty of "profit": They just can't distribute it to shareholders. Hence, they reinvest it. So whether voucher-funded schools are profit or non-profit, it is competition that will improve them.

[-] 2 points by invient (360) 2 years ago

Isnt that feed back mechanism currently considered testing? I thought their customers are the students... they are providing an education for the student, not the parent...

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

The student's are minors, and mostly could give a rat's ass about school. So the parents drive the decision making and quality requirements. So they are both the customers.

Testing is feedback on performance. The market gives feedback on perceived value (including the value of testing).

[-] 2 points by invient (360) 2 years ago

Doesn't that reflect a deep societal problem when students do not care about their education? Last I checked, quality and decision making in the public education system is done at the county level... parents can have an opinion, but nothing else... I know my parents never went into a school and made decisions and demanded requirements...

Why isnt performance at a school more important than perceived value... I would hope you would want to send your kids to a higher performing school, rather than one with a higher perceived value, but lower performance.... What kind of society assigns higher value to a lower performing school to begin with, doesnt that sound counter productive?

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

You are losing me. Do you know any teenagers? They are not overly concerned with "their education". They are hormone factories.

The situation you describe with parents is the problem: They are "3rd parties" to the most important activity their kids are engaged in. They are basically shut out. Some parents/kids might want a very formal, classics based education. Others might value way more hands on. Whatever - so long as some minimum requirements are met, society wins.

Perceived value is THE most important thing for quality. You don't buy speakers just based on their test specs - you balance out everything and make your choice.

[-] 1 points by Faithntruth (997) 2 years ago

Public sectors are much more easily affected than private in my experience. The feedback for public schools happens every year at the scool board budget discussions, at pta meetings, when voting for school board members, when the county discusses the school budget. Private schools have an agenda you pay for. Can you vote out the leaders? Protest text book choices? Even get a say in the clothing they require the kids to wear?

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

Yes, you can do all of those things. I don't know how private schools have an "agenda", other than to succeed. In any case, I am talking about a large market of private schools competing for your voucher money - not a single school.

A better analogy is grocery stores: There are lots of them, they compete ferociously, and they offer high quality food at low prices. That's how schools should be

[-] 1 points by Occupytheimf (134) 2 years ago

Free & markets eg

[-] 1 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 2 years ago

Yes, in a way.

[-] 3 points by occupythegorge (3) 2 years ago

Hey a big thanks you all at Occupy Wall Street for thinking about us here in our 430 person town of Mosier and we're standing in Mosier because you guys took the first stand on Wall Street! Thanks for being the spark and look forward to working more with you guys as we transform our current Corpocracy into a Democracy! Brent, Mosier, Oregon

[-] 3 points by marlonmeiracom (9) from Brasilia, DF 2 years ago

Everyone who has an account at Bank of America should go and withdraw their money this week. No one is supposed to shop at any Walmart for 15 days (there's other alternatives). Don't turn on your TV for 15 days. Capitalism respects only boycott. 99% drop on sales will show these robbers their place.

[-] 3 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I never shop at Wal-Mart.

[-] 1 points by marlonmeiracom (9) from Brasilia, DF 2 years ago

Problem is many of your friends and acquaintances do. Let's make 'em stop.

[-] 2 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I just switched my accounts from PNC to a local credit union, and I'm much happier.

[-] 1 points by marlonmeiracom (9) from Brasilia, DF 2 years ago

Talk to as many of your friends who have accounts on big banks to either close them or switch to local credit unions. Spread the word. Make these big shots pay by not winning.

[-] 2 points by angelhugs (12) from Durant, OK 2 years ago

Exactly! 3 months ago after talking with my bank repeatedly about money coming up missing from my account with a local bank I closed my account and currently live just fine without a bank at all. I haven't been to wal-mart in over a month and am loving it! Not only am I able to save tons of money...but have noticed that it is a lot easier to buy products made in the USA then it was at wal-mart. I have to go to more places to get what we need now but I support my local store owners and know that I am supporting an American worker when I see that it's not made in China. And I haven't had cable in over 2 years. I find that we not only get a lot more done without it but also spend more family time together. Non of my children miss the TV!

[-] 2 points by marlonmeiracom (9) from Brasilia, DF 2 years ago

That's great. And that should be the ideal approach. In Brazil we don't have as many big corporations as in the US, but we have wal-marts and banks. I don't use a bank account either. Let's keep it up and spread the boycott.

[-] 1 points by genaro (7) from Neuquén, Neuquén 2 years ago

I Agree ! A General Strike is the only way to make the 1% feel the power of simple people. "The dream of Debs" J.London ¡1909! http://www.classicreader.com/book/1428/1/ Greetings from Argentina!

[-] 3 points by AvlBW (3) from Asheville, NC 2 years ago

An inspiration to people trying to start small town encampments! Especially for those of us with a town working against them. Rutherfordton, NC will hopefully be joining soon.

[-] 3 points by ithink (761) from York, PA 2 years ago

How great.. I wish there was an occupy in my community

[-] 3 points by ARealNewYorker (227) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Start it! Seriously, you'll have the support of Occupies around the country and the world - especially New York.

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[-] 2 points by sylrse (38) 2 years ago

I live in a very small community- approx 1000 population- mostly repulblican. I am so tempted to make a bumper sticker that simply says, '99%', but I don't have the guts. My job is with a non-profit that works with highly visable (globally known) people. Any suggestions?

[-] 1 points by ithink (761) from York, PA 2 years ago

I saw a bumper sticker on a car today that said "kill your television"... I really like that- you should put it on your car..

[-] 1 points by bettersystem (170) 2 years ago

Spread the word to replant the garden of eden across the earth..

watch http://www.hulu.com/watch/151119/the-end-of-poverty

very important move..

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[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

Nah, wouldn't want those evil republicans to be part of the 99%

[-] 2 points by Occupytheimf (134) 2 years ago

99% inclusive. Welcome just as warm 4 u here as smart americans. Dont 4get your gasmask

[-] 1 points by betsydoula (143) from Beverly Hills, FL 2 years ago

Start one. I live in a small community, and it has begun with a few people. Start a facebook page. Get two or three like-minded people and have small protest with signs by a main roadway. You can do it.

[-] 3 points by Justice4all (133) 2 years ago

Never give up, never stop, never surrender! The world has waited eons for a light to amerge amidst the darkness of this system. Occupy is that light!

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[-] 2 points by ebri (419) 2 years ago

Adults look at numbers. Occupy should focus on the unfair reverse progressivity of the tax code enjoyed by the upper 1%. Most people in the 99% pay their fair share in taxes, perhaps too much tax. Those in the 90% progressively pay more as befits their higher income levels. But as incomes rise to the very highest levels this progressivity reverses so that those very highest earners ($390 million per year, for instance) actually pay less than those making only a few million per year. Happiness indices show we only need a certain amount of food, shelter, safety, and space to be happy. No one needs more than a hundred thousand dollars a year. If they do they have special medical needs or something like that. On top of this unfair reverse progressivity, capital gains for the very rich are only taxed at about 15%. These are what we must focus on. We must focus on attaining a reasonable quality of life for everyone, using existing technology (remember all of the entrepreneurial innovations and technological advances -- and therefore jobs -- the "trickle-down" effect was supposed to have created? Instead, all of these profits are going to just a very few individuals. Focus on the small section of the tax code that we can change. Otherwise this wonderful movement will lose its momentum and focus.

[-] -2 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

Good thing we don't need your permission to decide what we "need". Man, how arrogant can you get?

[-] -1 points by Occupytheimf (134) 2 years ago

Yes your excellency

[-] -1 points by FoxturdActionFigure (11) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

On Sunday, October 23, a meeting was held at 60 Wall Street. Six leaders discussed what to do with the half-million dollars that had been donated to their organization, since, in their estimation, the organization was incapable of making sound financial decisions. The proposed solution was not to spend the money educating their co-workers or stimulating more active participation by improving the organization’s structures and tactics. Instead, those present discussed how they could commandeer the $500,000 for their new, more exclusive organization. No, this was not the meeting of any traditional influence on Wall Street. These were six of the leaders of Occupy Wall Street

http://occupywallst.org/forum/animal-farm-meets-animal-house-the-six-leaders-of-/

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=27479

http://fritztucker.blogspot.com/

[-] 2 points by yarichin (269) 2 years ago

I spoke to my mother on the phone today, it has been a few months since we spoke. She had not heard of OWS, she lives in Rural America, and made $6,000 for a whole year a few years ago when I did her taxes for her. She was a hippie back in the sixties and she was unaware of the current movement. In Rural America many poor people have no internet or cable TV. News not reported by major networks does not get to the poor people living outside of urban areas. My own hometown had a population of less than 500 when I was born almost 40 years ago. Most of the houses in my home town are empty now. I say: OCCUPY EMPTY HOUSES! Move in! Get the utilities turned on in your name! Use the bills to put the address on your drivers license! Make the banks pay to move you out! Move to the empty house across the street when you get evicted. OWNERSHIP OF LAND AND HOUSES SHOULD BE BASED ON USE!

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Well - My home town is basically in the same situation with this exception, it just ain't the banks that own those houses. They belong to or did belong to hard working people who may have retired and are now gone without a buyer for the house. Maybe a middle aged person who had to leave town because there is no job. I am sure that if you would move in, fix the place up, pay the back taxes, upgrade the utilities and patch the racoon holes in the roof, you would be more than welcome. And while you are waiting for the bank to pay great amounts of money to move you out - please don't hold your breath.

In the meantime, look for a job. You have done a good thing, improved the area, put the home back into the tax system and provided shelter for yourself and your family. Still no job, thinking about abandoning the old house.................

[-] 1 points by yarichin (269) 2 years ago

Though taxes are a necessary evil, land and home taxes are flat out wrong. Any person that chooses to live without money should be free to do so. Air, water, food and living space should not be taxable.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Yeah, to a certain extend I agree. I just got my tax bill for $950.00 plus and I think that someone else should pay for the operation of this town, for the school systems, for the college system, for the country and state operations. Our food is NOT taxed (by state sales tax) but I am sure that a lot of the cost of that food is the result of high gasoline-diesel fuel taxes that got it here, taxes on employees paid by the processers, raisers, and manufacturers, taxes on the grocery store real and personal property. Where does it all end. That loaf of bread sure doesn't contain $2.50 worth of wheat.

[-] 1 points by yarichin (269) 2 years ago

I think taxes should fund education, just not land tax. When land is taxed it forces human beings to use money even if they don't want to. Food is taxed in many states, to me that is no different than taxing air. Taxation of food, water, land, or air amount to taxing your right to live. Taxes should only be on things one does not need. Cars should be taxed, TVs, computers, tobacco, alcohol, etc.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Can we really fund education or all the other "perks" of our society by taxing only the optionals. So everyone decides to forego cars, tvs etc. Close the schools??

[-] 1 points by yarichin (269) 2 years ago

Enough people will (in my opinion) choose to keep cars and other non essentials. If people choose not to keep them, do we really need them? If I choose to teach my children to hunt and fish and farm, and not use money, should I pay for other peoples children to teach them to mine and drill for oil? Only non-essentials should be taxed especially for education. To live together we need rules and we need enforcers, but participation in the group should not be a per-requisite to survival. If you do not understand that ALL of your food and water comes from the land then try living without food r water for a couple of days. I grew up hand to mouth, eating what the land and lakes had to offer, fighting with my brother for food. No person should have to pay any amount of money (IOU's) for the privilege of not dying.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Thanks for your reply and especially for the insights to who you are and where you are coming from. All issues such as this one, have so many facets to the discussion it would be very difficult to say any one is the solution. I lived 15 years in an area among some of the greatest people in the country who were relatively financially poor. Most lived an average of 100 miles from a hospital or grocery. Transporation was vital for them to maintain their way of life. I would argue that it would be unfair to tax their means of transportation directly to pay for schools. Those vehicles were vital to obtaining (hauling) water, food, and often jobs out of their home area. I fully agree on the food tax issue. Our state abolished sales taxes on food years ago - I think - a great move.

[-] 1 points by yarichin (269) 2 years ago

Then lets say in the absence of good public transportation that one vehicle per person in a household is tax free. Any motorized device used for farming or foraging food should also be tax free.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

That is about what it boiled down to - one vehicle serving 15-20 individual.

Grew up on a farm, our gasoline was delivered to the farm, tax free in 1960

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

But first, make sure you pay all the back taxes on that empty house. It's your fair share.

[-] 0 points by Occupytheimf (134) 2 years ago

Its your empty house

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

No, it's the bank's house. They paid for it in cash, and they pay all the taxes on it when it is abandoned. By "bank", I mean the owners of the bank, viz, union pension funds, teacher's pension funds, your grandmother's mutual funds . . . you know, "people" - the 99%. So the people deserve to get their investment back before the house is occupied. This is only fair.

[-] 0 points by Occupytheimf (134) 2 years ago

F,k the banks. Taxmoney shouldnt b paying police to 4close on 99% on behalf of 1% to begin with

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

What about the bank's owners - the little people? Why should they get hurt?

[-] 0 points by Occupytheimf (134) 2 years ago

Theyre little cronies whove never minded the suffrage of 99% in their most trying times. Get what u sow. No sympathy 4 cronies

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

They are not "cronies" they are people. They are blue collar workers with money invested in pension funds.

[-] 2 points by prisonforbush (4) 2 years ago

Don't forget, "city hall" belongs to the people, not the city.

[-] 2 points by bmck (11) 2 years ago

Americana at its best! Thanks Mosier!

[-] 1 points by bettersystem (170) 2 years ago

Spread the word to replant the "garden of eden" across the earth..

watch http://www.hulu.com/watch/151119/the-end-of-poverty

very important move..

[-] 2 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

Go Mosier :)

"Big corporations and politicians have ignored the needs of people no matter where they live"

Right on! Keep on strugglin´ keep on growin

[-] 1 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Yeah, see how similar the Koch's Tea Party is to OWS:

Go Kochs! Go Corporate America! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOCHAv25uTw

Crush the plebes.

[-] 2 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

they´re not at all similar. the Tea Party leaders´ wants to give all the power to unaccountable private tyrannies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxPUvQZ3rcQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqlTyAMVDUk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpd3grtjkK8

[-] 2 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Yeah you're right. I just wanted to attract the Tea partiers from their Wonderland to look at the Youtube video made by Al-Jazerra. It's very informative about how the Koch's are taking over America democratically, the way Hitler took over Germany.

[-] 1 points by Occupytheimf (134) 2 years ago

Aims of all 99% wont materialize realistically. Common goals that most 99% do want will easily be achieved by 99%

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

agreed. A common platform is very useful. I´m writing about that now actually, and will post here soon. In the mean time, read my other contributions:

The ”Free Ride” Society

http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-free-ride-society/

Replace Capitalism with Democracy

http://occupywallst.org/forum/replace-capitalism-with-democracy/

Strategies and Expectations

http://occupywallst.org/forum/strategies-and-expectations/

The Society We Should Strive For

http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-society-we-should-strive-for/ yours s.

[-] 1 points by patrickisready (5) 2 years ago

I'm so glad that people are making a stand. Yes, we are tire and its time for a change for the better.

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[-] 1 points by RashmiAhya1 (2) 2 years ago

Why there is no term limits on Cogressman or Senators?

[-] 1 points by RashmiAhya1 (2) 2 years ago

Why there is no term limits on Cogressman or Senators?

[-] 1 points by madjugar (1) 2 years ago

Just came from Occupy Moiser! What a great happening. People of all ages and walks of talking respectfully. A clean, well run, family friendly camp rural style. It's good to have a camp out here, it's nice to not have to drive into Portland to have a place for my voice.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 2 years ago

Campaign Finance Reform. Boom!

[-] 1 points by Mantram (1) from Karlstad, Värmlands Län 2 years ago

<3 Yey!!

[-] 1 points by Occupytheimf (134) 2 years ago

Antiquated dichotomy. Useless inapplicable in the wake of the global rising. U wont even consider yerself left or right

[-] 1 points by Violetarojo (119) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

I am so taken by what you are doing and your post! So glad I signed in this morning! It is such a wonderful change to what I normally read here. You all are awesome! No one pissing on store fronts or breaking bank windows here! I can bet my last, jaja… since I don’t have a dollar last penny on it. God bless you! Keep fighting the good fight! Keep it righteous! Keep it peaceful! Keep it safe! Don’t keep it secret!

[-] 1 points by Bellaciao29 (99) 2 years ago

The Power belongs to people and has to come back to it forever. Walk away then our money from the banks and don't ask other money from them anymore. We are and we have to be those who decide the future of the world. This is the only way to reach the social justice, forget the war and live in the wellness. Let's free soon ourselves from the bloodsuckers corps.

[-] 1 points by Mike221 (2) 2 years ago

Anybody here aware of an occupy group in Delaware County, Pa. in the Philly suburbs? I would be very interested. Thanks!

[-] 1 points by RomCath (24) 2 years ago

Thank you!

[-] 1 points by Gabbles (18) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Hey now, to those in Moiser and everywhere that are upset by the occupation, I ask you to suspend your beliefs for a minute, and take a listen. You’re being asked to reevaluate your level of awareness/education about the world you live in and potentially also revamp your moral integrity.

We realize your identity is being threatened, and that your reactions here are out of a need to bolster your sense of self. It is not easy to let go of your personal beliefs/preconceptions in order to allow new information in. I challenge each and every person that has bothered to take the time to make flash comments that discredit the movement to have a genuine conversation with someone who supports the Occupation, by whatever means communication is possible.

PLEASE. THINK FURTHER!

[-] 2 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Thank you!

[-] 1 points by bettersystem (170) 2 years ago

Grow food locally, let the earth save you from an advanced form of slavery.

watch http://www.hulu.com/watch/151119/the-end-of-poverty

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I will be planting my garden in the spring and will start growing plants indoors during the winter. I already have some that are growing and producing food right now.

[-] 1 points by mb0 (16) 2 years ago

Obama sold out, just like every other politician. Look where he got his campaign money from.

Please read&share: http://mosesbaca.blogspot.com/

[-] -2 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

He is the one who perfected crony capitalism. Without him, there would be no Tea Party.

[-] 3 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Bush 43 didn't perfect crony capitalism? You are so misguided and one-sided.

[-] 1 points by johnnyapple (15) 2 years ago

How about we all focus on getting all Government appointed officials, from our local City, County, State, Mayors to Governors and all their elected cabinets, all the way up to and including the Federal Government, Congress, Senators’, Obama and his cabinet take a 10% cut in their outlandish salaries and freeze their raise for the next two years!!! This would make a serious impact on our economy, Christ maybe even balance the budget!!!!

[-] 1 points by ProtectThePeople (1) 2 years ago

An open Letter To All Law Enforcement: http://tinyurl.com/we-protect-the-people Please Read Print and Share this with those across the barricades and across the land. Education is the best resolution to any problem.

[-] 1 points by Thisisthetime (200) from Kahlotus, WA 2 years ago

More Power to Mosier, Oregon. It is a beautiful place and an excellent area for a serious Pow-Wow. Fair-ness.

[-] 1 points by Eric418hill (8) 2 years ago

Start a new party - THe Democracy Party - democrats and Republicans have both been bought by the one %

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[-] 0 points by Spankysmojo (849) 2 years ago

You're there Atlanta. All of you. This mayor is lost. African Americans get lost just as easily as anyone else. Stay vocal. We're with you.

[-] 1 points by yoss33 (269) 2 years ago

Excellent.

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

Stop the foreclosures!!! I'd like to suggest to Occupy Mosier, neighboring Occupies, and all Occupy groups in the US to send out messages of support to Bo Vanderkhoot to be able to stay in his home--picket the bank that wants to take his house. Put this criminal foreclosure machine in neon headlines and show what's happening to real people. Don't let up on publicity, don't let the 1% commit these terrible crimes out of sight.

I really want to see these unspeakable evictions stopped. I think that would be a powerful message to banks that they're not going to be able to foreclose without a loud, noisy, public fight beamed all over the country (and the world). We can't let them get away with it. I'm not for anyone getting arrested, especially a father with a child. But a lot of bad publicity for the bank and an avalanche of messages of support for Bo might enable him to keep his home. Maybe there's a legal loophole a lawyer could find, that would at least buy enough time to stop the foreclosure process until Bo can get a better deal. This needs to be a national campaign.

It can be made dramatic with street theater: this would be really easy to identify with, maybe it would work within an encampment. People sleeping in real beds, with dressers, their living room furniture, saying they were evicted and didn't have anywhere else to go. Or, in a place like Mosier where there's lots of land, having a little Eviction City, lots of little outdoor living rooms, and kitchens, and children's rooms, outside on the grass. These immoral evictions are the reality for thousands of people, and they've got to stop! A moratorium on all foreclosures!

Thanks for the great work!

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Has any one asked themselves "what is missing from this story" I see mention of divorce, all mortgage payments made, refinance, etc but there is a dearth of information about this case. My son got divorced, the house had to be sold since it was jointly owned and neither could buy out the other persons' interest. Do you mean that you want to refinance as a single owner, without your spouses possible salary, etc. what IS the rest of the story.

What concerns me about this movement is the great propensity for someone to yell "fire" and everyone stampedes. Let's all do this, let's all do that, we demand this, we demand that. We all have the freedom to "demand" but to have any credibility, that demand must be based on something other than lack of information and the freedom to demand.

One of the best examples of this is the young man being interviewed who was demanding that his college loans be paid off. Finally pinned down for a reason, he said "Because that's what I want"

Please, my friends, add a little meat to the bone before you run with it.

[-] 1 points by Gabbles (18) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Just because someone knows it is wrong to have such a massive debt for education does not mean that they will be able to explain to you why. Being affected by it but not understanding it does not remove a person's right to be angry and to wish things to be different.

I agree that there is a lack of substance behind peoples arguments, this is true in life in general and so it will exist in the microcosm of society created at Occupations. I don't know the ratio, but I imagine one exists that would show that there is a selective number of people within groups who can best articulate the grievances they share with that group. Why wouldn't you try to find these people to gauge your opinion?

To define a movement by highlighting individuals within it who have displayed a need to increase their knowledge and understanding about their oppression is a false representation of that movement.

There are students who have well constructed arguments for why student loans should be paid off, and maybe you, and other people who share this blase attitude towards this request ought to try to find them and have a listen, if not a conversation.

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

You're right about our not having the details in this particular case, but I'm talking about millions of people losing their homes while we're reading about Wall Street "roaring back"--after they got OUR money. Those millions could just have easily kept people in their homes.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

And how do you reply to the person who says, why are they being kept in their home when I am barely hanging on to mine.

Toxic mortgages must mean something pretty bad. But I only hear about banks and Wall Street making a killing off these houses. Look in your local paper sometime - specifically the foreclosure section. Just pick one home that you are familiar with in the listing and see if you would pay off the balance due to own that home - especially if you note the identical home next door being listed for sale at $10-100,000 less.

And you might also ask who is holding onto these homes without any income production, decreasing value, lack of demand. I, for one, would not change my simple way of life for that of any banker - including any in my locallly owner bank which is sitting pretty good because when people asked for these outrageous loans, it simple said NO.

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

Did you see a news story today about a group of exactly the very bankers who foreclose homes, looking down from their office on the 15th floor in downtown Manhattan at an OWS protest? They were taking bets on which protester would be arrested next. I think they'd foreclosed--was it 900?--people out of their homes that day, had made millions. They were laughing.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Let me see how this works. You borrow money to buy a home. Say $125,000. Then you give the money to the person who owns the home. Then you make payments on the home until you default.. Let's say you have paid 5,000 so far. The Bank reposses the home unless someone else wants to purchase it on the steps of the courthouse. They now get their 120,000 back in property for the 125,000 they loaned. The house isn't sold yet and probably has a fair market value of say 95,000. What am I missing here - where did the millions that the banks made come from?? I probably should have taken basic economics instead of the 200 level course to start with. think??

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

I'm sorry, I have to make this short, and I don't understand all the specifics of what happened regarding the mortgage and financial crises except there were a lot of shady things going on--that's why sometimes it's been impossible to prove who even owns the house. All the so-called slicing and dicing and bundling of mortgages. But beyond that, we're in a massive social and economic crisis that's the worst since the Depression. I believe that using money to create jobs as under the Works Progress Administration in the 30's, and finding ways to keep people from abandoning their homes--thus keeping up property values--would have done a lot more for the country than allowing criminals in finance to profit from the American people, to the point that they continue to award themselves obscene "compensation."

There are a lot of specifics that need to be investigated, but my general point is that we could have accomplished a lot more by not allowing huge swaths of the country to go under. Many of those suffering the most are families with children and young students, like the ones in OWS. What if instead of those billions going to prop up the wealthy, OUR money had gone to prop up US. People working, making money, and paying taxes might have had a more beneficial effect on not only the individual workers and homeowners themselves but the economy itself.

But I'm not an economist, and I will continue to read. I think one reason the banksters got away with it was that most people don't understand their sophisticated financial "instruments," as they're called. Peace.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

I think that a lot of the problem is our determined and unrelenting effort to tie the individual homeowner and the "big bankster" together to the same wagon. I see this entire fiasco in the history of our country as a cultural issue. Really, aren't we talking about the greed in the economy more than the economy itself. We are relunctant to point a finger at the greed of the homebuyer who over bought what they could afford, extended their risk beyond their means to cover it, were willing to gamble that the value of homes would continue to rise at a mind numbing rate, and just couldn't pass up a deal too great to be true, with a possible killing in the real estate market if that house could just reach $750,000 evaluation, etc and yet receive our full outpouring of sympathy when their little plan goes under. And yes, I know this does not apply to all people who bought homes and were caught up in this economic downturn, does not apply to the wife of husband who had to find a second job to keep their home, etc. It them becomes a cultural question of how do we do what is fair based upon decisions made by individuals. Tell me who do we help, the man facing foreclosure that bought a $500,000 house in an area with average house costs at $250,000, or the man who purchased the $125,000 home in the same area based on his income level, what job security he had, with the intent of providing a home for his family, who lost his job due to employee reductions and is now facing foreclosure. Can we identify greed as an economic measure in this case and say one person is right and we will assist the second person in keeping his home.

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

Thanks for your replies, and you raise some very relevant issues. Maybe one could think of it like this:

These economic probems are way bigger than the individuals in the 99% who are hanging on, with varying degrees of success, while the 1% who precipitated (and have now profited from) the crash are doing better than ever. It's pretty atrocious. I don't think the problem can be solved on the level of individual homeowners, like, how guilty was this one of paying more house than they could afford; how deserving is that one; did they lose the house because they lost a job--or something else.

I think the solution has to be much, much broader, soething like a new WPA, a massive public works program to put the country back to work. There's plenty to be done: smaller class sizes in the schools; more aides in nursing homes and hospitals; levees to protect the country from what are becoming almost routine, catastrophic floods; what else? Oh, affordable housing, treatment programs for addicts, after school programs, treatment for veterans who developed PTSD as a result of their service--getting the contry back to work would generate a lot of money, taxes, and consumption. Keeping people in their homes would keep neighborhoods from going under and becoming prey to vandals who go into a house and tear out all the plumbing... the .01$ have perpetrated such a great crime against humanity, that we don't have the accounting programs to keep track of all that injustice. Just keep people in their homes, get the country working, and stop giving the wealth of the 99% to the 1% to continue robbing our country and our future.

Sorry if that sounds a little too much like slogans, but I think we have to overlook individual failures and focus on the big picture. As the 99%, WE did not cause this predicament.

Thanks for reading.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

I differ regarding your last statement. I DO think that the individuals within the 99% were responsible for a significant portion of the problems that we face today. It is very easy to isolate and point a finger at the 1% as the sole source of our problems, but my point is that if the entire 1% went away today and took their well or ill gotten gains with them - it would solve nothing within the remaining 99%.

Who are the medical professionals ripping off medicare, who are the investors gambling their working dollar in the stockmarket, who are the recipents of the bogus social security claims and checks, who are the golf playing disabled claiming my SS dollars.

We look at the "big banksters" because they are few and far between and the sums we account to them are many - but it is NOT the root of our problems. If our society-all 100% of it-continues to march forward with their hand out trampling over, even the ones still working and supporting their forward march - we will all be in very big dodo.

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

Hi, I just wanted to let you know I replied to your later comment below, since there wasn't a "Repy" option next to your comment.

Thanks again.

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

I really appreciate your taking the time to reply, and I think that these issues have to be examined with facts and real dialogue. There's a lot I don't know about this financial crisis and what caused it.

But there's another way to look at this question. Were all those people who bought houses just irresponsible and expecting a handout? Then why is it so difficult for a working person to be able to buy a house? What's wrong with a society in which a house is out of reach for so many? The same for education--why are middle-income people and their kids getting priced out of higher education (and those with low incomes much more likely, statistically, to be pushed out of high school and never graduate). Education used to be the privilege of the rich, and that's what's it's becoming again.

If millions of people really shouldn't have bought houses because they couldn't pay for them, what does that tell you? How much money do you have to have to take on a mortgage (and how many people didn't realize they'd be ruined when the adjustable-rate teaser mortgages (ARM's) reset to much higher monthly payments they couldn't pay--especially for millions of Americans who didn't realize they were going to lose their jobs, thanks to the system of the 1%. You're left with a message to the working class, something like: who do you think you are, pretending you can afford a house. Go back to your apartments and trailers, and come back when you've got some real money. And, by the way, it costs just as much to rent as buy, so screw you.

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

Hi, I don't see a place to reply to your new comment, so I'll do it here, but, oh, no, that was not at all directed to you ("screw you"). I'm sorry if it wasn't clear. I meant, that's the message that people who couldn't afford a house would be getting from society--you can't afford a house, it costs as much to rent, so you're screwed. I apologize if you thought I was insulting you, and as I mentioned, I appreciate your taking the time to thoughtfully discuss some very serious problems.

I think my main point was that something's wrong in a society where you have to be pretty well off to buy a house. I compared owning a home to education, saying that both were becoming out of reach for many of the 99%--no matter how hard they work.

Finally, I don't think we can blame people who bought homes for not having predicted that they would soon be among millions of people who would lose their jobs in an economic catastrophe in which, according to Noam Chomsky, real unemployment is as high as it was during the Depression.

And I would like to learn about rental property (just about every financial guru recommends owning it), but I'm struggling just to pay my own rent after having lost a job due to age discrimination--before the recession hit.

Thanks again for your replies, and I absolutely did not intend the "screw you" comment to be directed to you.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

And so, you would put me out of business because I own a 4-unit apartment building renting to people that either prefer that type of living arrangement, have not saved up for a downpayment on a house, or think that a 2012 Caddy is more important.

And not to put anyone down, BUT, if you couldn't figure out ARM's and the possibility that your rate could go up someone was being fooled. I realize that I may lose my retirement (Social Security or otherwise) so I do not depend on that as my sole source to purchase a home far above what I can reasonable afford.

If your "screw you" comment was directed to me I would have been more than willing to share some of the economics of purchasing rental property and managing to keep that property over the payout period. IT AIN"T EASY. And your "just as much" statement is just a little off-vs-the real world.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

No, thankfully I missed that one. But is must have been quite a piece of reporting from 15 stories down with audio too.

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

The news story included photographs from inside the office of the bankers laughing and some hilarious comments.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

I am still having a problem tying all of this together. We are now talking about photographs with audio. Would someone please tell me what really happened and where I can see this information for myself.

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

It was an internet news story, and it had a photograph of the bankers in their office, and quotes from the bankers. I don't think this was video.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Sounds more like bankers' suicide - via the internet. Strange, very strange.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

About time someone found a little humor around here. It was getting to be all doom and gloom violence etc.

[-] 0 points by Jimboiam (812) 2 years ago

Thats what OWS needs to do is embrace the Tea Party. Throw off the bonds of the marxists and anarchist radicals and do whats best for all Americans.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

If I'm not mistaken Oregon is a state with a standing article 5 application in Congress. Right there Oregon is way ahead in thinking. ------

The man who said, "The problem is in Washington" is right. But, comprehensive discussion on solution needs to start somewhere. NYCGA can't do it. The Tea Party and Occupy are in agreement about government, but both fall short in defining HOW to gain the authority to see demands met.-----

The key to our futures is state agreement that the federal government, congress has been in violation of the constitution regarding article 5 for about 100 years. Requirements were met. The lawyers of congress intentionally misinterpreted the constitution to avoid calling a convention.------

When that is seen, then agreement on demands to the states to enforce the constitution are in order. Facts about article v.-----

http://www.foa5c.org/mod/resource/view.php?id=2

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

"The Tea Party and Occupy are in agreement about government, but both fall short in defining HOW to gain the authority to see demands met."

I think that's a work in progress that will develop and evolve over time. I think the OWS movement will figure it out and is doing a good job at moving in that direction. It's not something that is easy and that will happen overnight.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Yes they are in agreement. The Tea PArty has fallen to misinformation about article 5 so think it is against it. A fearful perspective controls them. Here is an example of how corporate internet info sources collude with the infiltration of government to create fear of our first and last constitutional right.-------- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution

The first sentence in the 3rd paragraph is complete misinformation and it is not credible that it is an accident. The proper interpretation is that congress SHALL call a convention. The sentence following says, MAY be proposed. Weak language compared to shall. All this means the states can exclude congress. Congress has no legal voice or role when 3/4 of the states are in agreement ratifying amendments.------

I can see no effort by OWS to define how to gain the the needed authority. I've not found anyone in the movement that knows article 5. Quite a few posters here have stated that they know article 5 to be the answer, and their perspectives on most thing were very much in line with OWS. Meanwhile while OWS is trying to figure out how to gain authority to meet demands, there is a full blown covert program targeting their forums, their demonstrations and spread through conservative politics.------

There needs to be decisive action on this from us. OWS is bogged down by some invisible burden, maybe even crippled in this respect designed to fail. "If the people lead" . . . . . . oh, they have no leaders.

[-] 0 points by genaro (7) from Neuquén, Neuquén 2 years ago

A General Strike is the only way to make the 1% feel the power of simple people. "The dream of Debs" J.London ¡1909! http://www.classicreader.com/book/1428/1/ Greetings from Argentina!

[-] 0 points by LoneStar1 (4) 2 years ago

Hard to watch this game in my tent...Need a real TV....HELP

[-] 0 points by CountryGirl (73) 2 years ago

I used to live there when I was a kid. I loved the itty bitty library and that I had to walk to the post office to get the mail.Go guys!!

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[-] 2 points by ARealNewYorker (227) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Individual organizations don't have to grant you free speech, only the federal government does. This is not a legally public space - it is a space created by us for people who actually want to contribute to a public dialogue, not some jerkoff who wastes everyone's time insulting us, usually on the basis of wrong information. If you had anything intelligent to contribute, even if it was critical, they probably wouldn't delete your account.

[-] 2 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 2 years ago

Exactly! Maybe he'll get the point. I've posted the same.

[-] 2 points by ARealNewYorker (227) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

I don't think he did... he seems to think that a movement that supports the dispossessed is somehow the aggressor... Seriously, I wonder what it's like constantly to feel like you're under threat. I mean, it leads to horrible acts, but, on the other hand, it must be really stressful to feel like there's an enemy to "our way of life" around every corner. Well, I guess I don't feel bad enough to overlook the fact that this guy acts like a total douchebag.

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

You are correct on that. Conservatives respect the rights of property owners.

But if you want to ban us, you will end up with an echo chamber. That will satisfy the more intellectually challenged among you, but it will make it very boring for the rest of of you.

A slight point of semantics: The federal government does not grant us free speech; it is acknowledged to be an inalienable right upon which the government cannot intrude.

[-] 1 points by ARealNewYorker (227) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Fair enough on the last sentence.

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[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

Yeah, I was just threatened to be "banned" by someone who claimed they could change the number of points on my comments. This makes me think they are one of the organizers (with admin privileges).

My crime has be to re-post apparently truthful things from the media. The purge begins. Next it will be the jews. . .

[-] -2 points by owschico (295) 2 years ago

they love ron PauI here too i mean Ron Lawl

[-] 1 points by ARealNewYorker (227) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Despite my criticisms of the trolls, I do think that one's messed up, especially in light of the meeting between Occupy Mosier and the local Tea party, and definitely in light of the number of similar interests between the Occupy people and the luaP noR people on defense spending and the bailouts. There are always Notrand Paul people at the Zuccotti Park occupation.

[-] 1 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 2 years ago

The Ron Lawl's have been at the OccupyDC rally since day one. They have a right...

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[-] 2 points by invient (360) 2 years ago

Well, you guys are enlightened enough to vote in someone like Perry... so I can see why.

[-] 1 points by hiddenwheel (83) from Newton, MA 2 years ago

Spent some time in Dallas this summer. Met & stayed with some of the coolest folks I've ever met. People who turned burned out buildings into DIY art/music spaces and did it bigger & better than I've ever seen. I don't know exactly where you're coming from Lone Star but, I know there are plenty of Texans who march to the beat of their own drum and are sick of the way things are.

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