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Posted 10 years ago on Nov. 5, 2011, 8:11 a.m. EST by anonymous ()
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[-] 1 points by shreepal (9) 10 years ago

we all here are living at a critical period of human history and are striving to fathom the evolving-future society that would/could/should take the place of the present capitalist one. We are entities of nature and placed in a definite time and space in the universal context. Let the science be our guide in our quest. we cann't confine our search to society alone. We must study life, humans, their personality, evolution, universe etc. Let us pool our resources of knowledge together in pursuit of a common objective. Please look into this link also (especially topic- technology's impact on democracy & economy): http://indianpeoplescongress.org/index.php

[-] 1 points by Freedom2B (23) 10 years ago

Libertarian Socialism aka "Socialism" doesn't work. Sorry. The entirety of human history shows this. The fact that we have cell phones and the Internet does not change the essence of people.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 10 years ago

Youre probably thinking of leninist models etc. Libertarian Socialism absoulutely rejects any form of one party-rule or state tyranny on the way to freedom. In fact Libertarian Socialism wants to get rid of the state, replacing it with local democracy associated in fedreations. The people living under feudalism were also told that parlamentary democracy wouldnt work. Look what happened.

[-] 1 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 10 years ago

This is what the masses seem unable to grasp:

 If we replace our current leaders with human beings, they will sell out just as far as the current bunch. Our leaders weren't born sold out. Wall Street executives weren't born evil. They were born human. With a natural instinct to gather and store for survival. A natural instinct to care for family and community. 

When modern society was formed, we began to sell out our natural instincts. Survival turned into survival with a little more elbow room. Then survival with a little more elbow room and a nice view. Then survival with a little more elbow room, a nice view, and something pretty to hang around our neck.

Fast forward a few thousand years. With the industrial revolution came mechanized transportation, air conditioning, and television.

We had become somewhat spoiled. Somewhat motivated. Still relatively down to Earth. Still modest enough to appreciate one another, care for one another, and work towards a common goal.

Along the way, the potential for increased personal wealth became more and more intoxicating. Now, just about everyone wants to be rich. They want it so badly, they are willing to sell out basic morality to attain it. They WILL sell out basic morality if given the opportunity.

How can I be so sure? That's easy. Human nature plus years of corrupt influence plus opportunity.

Mother Nature did not plan for modern society. She did not plan on such corrupt influence. She never intended for any of us to seek or attain extreme personal wealth. We simply can not process the concept without being corrupted by it. Without compromising basic morality.

Extreme wealth is the single greatest corrupt influence of modern society. With every 'zero' on the paycheck, our basic instincts to care for family and community are compromised.

Those of you who still aren't convinced, consider this: 

If God himself gave you the power to end poverty, bring about world peace, and take a bonus of $100,000,000 for yourself, would you do it?

If God himself gave you the power to end poverty, bring about world peace, OR take a bonus of $100,000,000 for yourself, which would you choose?

Not only is the greatest concentration of wealth in world history the single greatest underlying cause of economic instability. The very concept of extreme personal wealth is the most corrupt influence in the history of mankind.

I speak the ugly truth. 

There will be no reform on Wall Street.

There will be no recovery for the vast majority. 

There will be no government "of the people" and "for the people". 

Not one of us will live to see it.

[-] 1 points by Freedom2B (23) 10 years ago

I don't view it as an ugly truth, it is just human behavior. We are all individuals. We all act out of self-interest.

[-] 1 points by Dreadheart (3) from Växjö, Kronobergs Län 10 years ago

True, but it is possible to combine "alturistic" interests and self-interests if the fundamental structure of society allows it. Sadly, it does not.


[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 10 years ago

I have not studied the ZM well enough. Are you guys into conspiracy-theories "9/11truthers" and stuff like that? Are you at all associated with the "Zeitgeist" documantary?

[-] 1 points by Dreadheart (3) from Växjö, Kronobergs Län 10 years ago

TZM originated from the Zeitgeist movies, yes, but has since then moved away from promoting ciritcal thinking to rather focus on working towards a vision, spawned from the designs and ideas of social engineer Jacque Fresco and his "Venus Project" which were introduced in the second Zeitgeist movie, "Addendum".

So we are no longer "officially" associated with conspiracy theories and it has even been spoken about to "renounce" the first two Zeitgeist movies as they do not promote the Movement as a social movement very well.

I sadly cannot explain the full extent of the Zeitgeist Movement in one simple comment, as it is in many ways a fundamentally different approach than we're used to and entire multi-hour movies aren't always sufficient, and so I rather welcome you on behalf of the Movement to view the movies and read the works that you can find on this website:


And if, and I suspect from experience that there might, there are any questions you need answering afterwards please do visit the forums on the same website and see if the people there can't help you.

Thank you for the interest, and for the brave people of Occupy Wall Street(and its side-branches around the world):

Never give up and never lose sight of the goal. In the words of Mohandas "Mahatma" Gandhi: "Become the change you want to see in the world."

P.S. It seems as if the homepage has been recently changed, and so I can no longer find the international forums(it might not even exist anymore). I guess it pays off to stay informed, but at any state there are still the chapter-based forums you can visit. If nothing else, Google is your friend!

-Dreadheart, TZM

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 10 years ago

So why not just abandon tzm including the crazy 911 conspiracy theories, and join the occupy movement and help building it up to a substancial force?

[-] 1 points by Dreadheart (3) from Växjö, Kronobergs Län 10 years ago

Firstly, as I explained in my previous post TZM has no affilliation anymore with conspiracy theories or the like. In truth the movement was never about them, as it was formed to support the Venus Project.

Secondly, I am in the Zeitgeist Movement because I share its beliefs regarding how to change human society for the better. Similarly you are in the Occupy Movement because you share its beliefs regarding the dangerous state of the world as present. So for me to "abandon" TZM would be about the same as it would be for you to abandon the OWM.

Thirdly, our two movements are currently working together as people from the Zeitgeist Movment is helping the Occupy Movements all over the world to help bring a much needed change in direction.

-Dreadheart, TZM