Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
We kick the ass of the ruling class

A Statement From The Occupy Student Debt Campaign

Posted 2 years ago on June 25, 2012, 9 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

occupy student debt campaign

Everybody is now talking about the student debt crisis, but nothing is being done about it. Thanks in large part to the great public amplifier of the Occupy movement, this year’s presidential contenders have been forced to embrace student loan reform as a talking point in their respective campaigns. But the debt relief being pushed by the Obama administration is a token gesture, aimed at getting some traction on the youth vote–especially the more disillusioned or alienated student constituencies. Recent bills introduced in Congress–Student Loan Forgiveness Act (H.R. 4170) and the Private Student Bankruptcy Fairness Act (H.R. 2028)–have zero chance of passing in anything like their current form. Practically speaking, no reform program of any substance is on the legislative horizon, least of all one that would regulate the predatory lending practices of Wall Street banks.

The truth is that student debt relief is too important to be left to elected officials. They are chronically dependent on the financial backing of the lending industry, and are structurally incapable of addressing this crisis, let alone resolving it. As a result, reform initiatives such as Student Loan Justice and Forgive Student Debt (to Stimulate the Economy) that have been aimed at petitioning lawmakers have very little to show for all their hard effort. The recent federal modifications in payment schedules are micro-cosmetic compared to the sea-change that is required to free debtors of their intolerable burdens and rescue higher education from its increasing use as a profit engine for financiers, asset speculators, and real estate developers. The pathway to this outcome does not lie in futile pleas for economic reform, but through a political movement, driven by self-empowerment and direct action on the part of debtors.

The Occupy Student Debt Campaign was launched at Zuccotti Park in November 2011 with the goal of building a student debt abolition movement. Our campaign is based on principles for which we believe there is widespread support

  1. Free public education, through federal coverage of tuition fees.

  2. Zero-interest student loans, so that no one can profit from them.

  3. Fiscal transparency at all universities, public as well as private.

  4. The elimination of current student debt, through a single act of relief.

These are interlocking principles, and should not stand on their own. Imagine a world in which lawmakers were to respond positively to the current calls for debt “forgiveness” (an unfortunate term that implies the debtor has sinned). Such a measure would offer much-needed relief, but it would still disadvantage future debtors if it were not complemented by remedies that brought to an end the practice of compelling students to privately fund higher education by going into debt bondage. So, too, a singular focus on reducing interest rates (even to zero) is more likely to encourage colleges to increase their fees than to open up equitable access to education.

In light of Wall Street’s stranglehold on Congress, the Occupy Student Debt Campaign holds that alternative strategies are necessary to promote and publicize our principles. That is why it endorses the practice of debt refusal as a legitimate response to the predicament of individuals and communities targeted by predatory lenders, or by state officials seeking to pass on the costs of the financial crisis in the guise of austerity measures. Greece, Chile, England, Italy, Spain, and Quebec have all seen popular revolts against government efforts to preserve, and extend, the power of financial elites to discipline selected populations. With each new outbreak of people’s voices, the imposition of debt is publicly exposed, not simply as a means of redistributing wealth upwards, but also as an instrument of social control. Under current U.S. laws, defaulting on a student debt carries serious penalties. These laws are unjust, but they are a sharp deterrent to individuals who might otherwise consider refusing their debts. In response, our campaign advocates collective action. Even in its absence, the default rates are accelerating, with alarming consequences. Our Pledge of Refusal is framed as a debt strike threat (debtors pledge to withhold payments once a million others have signed). We welcome, and will support, other forms of debt refusal/strike that are consistent with the aim of building a broad political movement.

The culture of honoring all debts, even those unjustly incurred, is not universally respected, least of all on Wall Street. Loans and credit are new forms of money created from nothing for the ultimate benefit of the lender; they are little more than numbers on a computer screen. Bankers know this, and so they treat their own debts accordingly, as matters to be renegotiated, restructured, or written off. Only the little people are supposed to pay in full. As this double standard becomes more and more apparent, debt refusal will emerge as the most rational response to an immoral predicament.

The struggle over wages was a defining feature of the industrial era. We believe that the struggle over debt will play a similar role in our own times. Not because wage-conflict is over (it never will be), but because debts, for most people, are the wages of the future.

Join Us!

The Occupy Student Debt Campaign

Sign the student debt pledge of refusal here.

Or, sign the faculty pledge or the non-debtors’ pledge of support.

Web: www.occupystudentdebtcampaign.org
Twitter: @StdntDebtPledge
Facebook: OccupyStudentDebtCampaign

(N.B. Our campaign tactics differ from those who own the Occupy Student Debt domain name, and who have no relationship to Occupy Wall Street.)

266 Comments

266 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 6 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago
  1. If you have free public education why would you need zero-interest student loans?
  2. If you have zero interest student loans, whoever is making the loan will lose money due to inflation. The interest rates need to at least match the inflation rate. There are commercial loans for as low as 2.25% which is less than the rate of inflation. The banks hope you will continue to do business with them after you graduate.
  3. Why should a private university need to have fiscal transparency? They are private. They can do whatever they want with their money and should not have to tell anyone. If you don't like how they are run don't attend.
  4. If you borrowed money to go to college do you not at all feel obligated to pay it back? If you go into business after graduating do you not want your customers to pay you for your goods or services?
  5. Many universities and organizations offer scholarships for excellent students. The government offers financial aid (grants) for low income students.
  6. I went to a county college for two years and transferred to a state school. I had no debt when I graduated.
  7. Occupy could start a university where students do not have to pay tuition. Everyone at the school would have to work for free but it could be done. Classes could be held outdoors so there would be no rent for buildings or expenses for facilities.
[-] 3 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

LOVE IT. "Occupy could start a university where students do not have to pay tuition...." Finally, someone who wants to stop blame-shifting, take responsibility, and DO SOMETHING!

[-] 0 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

"I went to a county college for two years and transferred to a state school. I had no debt when I graduated."

How long ago was that? I did the same and the costs are 10x higher today. As the parent of two college age kids I find the rise in tuition costs to be sickening.

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Actually the cost of County College has not really changed. Sure it has gone up since the 1980s however it is still reasonable. In the 1980s vs today.

  1. Gallon of gas was $0.65 now $3.40.
  2. Gallon of milk was $1.74 now $3.65
  3. New car was $6,294 now $28,715
  4. County College was $42 per credit now $99 per credit

My niece went to George Washington for free because she is a good student.

[-] 2 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

You mean she did well on all her test scores, and got good recommendations. I wish her the best, honestly.

But if we were to only go by that criteria for what a good student is, we would probably never had entered the nuclear age. A teacher suggested Einstein leave school, since his very presence destroyed the other students' respect for the teacher. He did not do well with rote memorization and strict curriculum's. Often those most talented are like that and don't do that well in lower grades.

Think of the loss to our knowledge base if he were not allowed to continue schooling because of financial reasons, due to his denial of funding because he didn't do well in school?

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

My point is.

If your excel and work hard there is a scholarship out there somewhere. If you are poor there is financial aid.

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

There used to be financial aide. Now all that is available is high debt.

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

Been there done that. I have one kid who just graduated college and one in college now.

[-] -2 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

What year did you graduate? During the last 15 years, tuition has skyrocketed -- increased 400% -- and I am talking the less expensive schools.

As Governement aid increases, so does the tuition. It is a partnership deal between the Governement and the 1%. This way more tax dollars (through student aid) are transferred to the 1%

[-] 4 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Actually the cost of County College has not really changed. Sure it has gone up since the 1980s however it is still reasonable. In the 1980s vs today.

  1. Gallon of gas was $0.65 now $3.40.
  2. Gallon of milk was $1.74 now $3.65
  3. New car was $6,294 now $28,715
  4. County College was $42 per credit now $99 per credit

There are also grants for low income students and scholarships. My niece went to George Washington for free because she is a good student. My other niece went almost for free to U Delaware undergrad and free to UCLA Grad as a nursing student.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

The cost of college has not gone up? It has increased 400%.!!! Income's (other than those of the 1%) have not gone up any where near that much.

Most students are average. That is what "average" means -- what "most" are. So most students will not go to school on scholarships.

The poor will go for free or practically for free. They always do.

It is the lower middle class and the middle class that will pay through the nose. Not eligible for financial aid, they will have to take out loans to pay for school.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Please do not misquote me by leaving a word out.

What I said was: "Actually the cost of COUNTY College has not really changed"

Relative to today's dollar it is the same. The lower middle class not so smart students, average students can go to county college. It is a good value. I went to county college and state colleges and I make over $200,000/year now.

[-] 0 points by Growup6 (-125) 2 years ago

No, it's just a normal dynamic of inflation. There's been too much money thrown at higher education and it's being indiscriminately spent. More fuel for inflation won't lower inflation. Better decisions will and hopefully, we'll start to see students make a few of those soon. Students have been reckless borrowers. As that stops, schools will notice and inflation will ease.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

To expect students to correct this scam ignores the real problem! immoral banks and schools putting profit ahead of people. Right wing policies that cut college grants and allow banks to charge onerous interest. Free education for all is the only solution. force schools to cut costs. The students are the victims, NEVER blame the victim!

[-] 2 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

Free education? What the $#@! is FREE education? How about free food, and free houses? Why stop there? Free cars & TVs, and IPADs....

[-] 1 points by krmlei (103) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Great idea! No, really! If everyone had free housing, free food, free transportation etc.. we can all work at the same levels of peak performance as the very rich. Think about it.

Anyway, someone born into a rich family usually has all these advantages over the poor and that's why they have the freedom to become celebrities, succesful politicians, etc (why don't you look up the backgrounds of people, it may make you realize the advantage of being from the right family)

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Take a breath. We already provide 12 free years! A few more won't matter. Education can be a lot cheaper now with the interwebs. Just make corp 1% crooks pay for it. They benefit most.

[-] 3 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

LOL. That 12 "FREE" years cost hard working Americans over $128,000 per student.

[-] 1 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

Why should you have to pay taxes for other folks kids to go to school?

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Whatever. It's covered. Time to expand the concept at least another few years.

[-] 3 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

"Whatever. It's covered"? Great attitude. Why should you care, It's covered... Heaven help us.

[-] 2 points by Growup6 (-125) 2 years ago

It's the attitude of someone not in the payer-class. Because they experience things as free, paid for by people like you and me, every time they get asked if they want more, the answer is ALWAYS "yes".

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Heaven ain't gonna help you! I think heaven would support the expanded education of the 99% as well as the progressive agenda of OWS. You would certainly get support for your 1% friends from Hell. That I could see.

[-] 3 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

I don't even know a 1%er. I am a hard-working, tax-paying 99%er. I am just perplexed at the victimization obsession, meanness, envy, greed and sense of entitlement of my 99%er brothers and sisters who insist on being part of the problem and not the solution.

[-] 1 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

"victimization obsession, meanness, envy, greed and sense of entitlement"

I usually get this from folks who are afraid their neighbors are going to get more government money than they do.

My stepfather says those things. He is currently mad at the government because they caught him cheating on his income and they want our money back. Hates the government and loves their money. He deserves it. Is that what entitled means?

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

The 1% have taken the wealth of the 99% for 3 decades! We just got screwed by their massive scam that crashed the world economy and lost 40% of our home value. You don't have a problem with those facts? You are a 99%'r who doesn't mind getting screwed by the 1%? Well we do. We want our money back! You ain't perplexed, you're just carrying the water of the people preying on you and your family. 'cause you think their gonna tinkle down on you. They got you fooled, hook line and sinker 'cuz.

[-] -2 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

The fundamental flaw in almost everything that you said is that you're thinking from the perspective of large institutions like banks and universities and the federal government. People who beg for handouts don't think in terms of viability or sustainability. When they see a large institution, they only see deep pockets. Trying to get people here to empathize with the concerns of an institution like Yale is not going to work out for you.

[-] 3 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

You are probable right. People overvalue a big name university education and waste a fortune. I would not go unless I received a scholarship. Unfortunately I was not a very hard working high school student.

As I said, I went to county college and state school for engineering. Fortunately I worked for a year first which transformed me into a hard working student. Now I earn over $200K. There is no need to go to Yale or Harvard if you work hard when you graduate a state school.

What is really interesting is that there is a long list of Billionaires that dropped out of or did not attend college.

[-] 2 points by gtrabbit (11) 2 years ago

"What is really interesting is that there is a long list of Billionaires that dropped out of or did not attend college."

Not to disagree with what you're saying, but I think it's a problem that there's a much, much, much longer list of poor people who did the same. It's a bit backward to focus your attention on rare exceptions, while ignoring the overall trend.

But you're totally right. No reason to go to big name schools. Most schools in the US are at least twice as expensive as schools in other countries... and it's not like you're getting a worse education from a state school. I don't think it makes sense to blame students, though. Most 18 year olds have never had to make a serious financial decision in their life. (Schools are set up in such a way that kids almost never get to make their own decisions, which is part of the problem as well)

Working for a year before attending college is something I wish I had done. Would have given me a lot more perspective. Sadly, my school did so little to educate me about how higher education works that I foolishly believed there were only two options: you go to college right after high school, or you never go.

We need better college counseling in schools, and less manipulative advertising from schools, especially the for-profit system.

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

I actually found that going to a state school at night was the best thing for an electrical engineering student. All the night professors were adjuncts that worked at Bell Labs, Honeywell, or GE. They had real world experience instead of pure academia that you get from a tenured professor.

My point on the Billionaires is that we put to much focus on College. I learned more reading books after college and programming night an d day than I ever learned in college. Sore I would no want to go to a doctor or surgeon that did not have a degree, but for many things it is simply not necessary. My son is 12 years old and developing "game mods". He as over 130,000 downloads for one of his mods. I am not sure that college will not be important for him. His game development resume is what will matter. Going to college to read Henry David Thoreau, The Iliad, western history.. really will not matter.

[-] 2 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

Once I figured out that college is learning what the boss wants and giving to him I started doing very well.

A degree is proof that you can play the game.

[-] 2 points by gtrabbit (11) 2 years ago

Yeah, I definitely agree there is too much focus on a college degree. In the case of your son, he might do well because the gaming and software industry is still young, and open to genuine skills and experience. In many other fields, though, he might be overlooked in favor of someone with the name of an expensive college on their resume but no honest skills to speak of. For the time being, that's the reality most of us will have to deal with. In the US, it's actually much better than in other countries, luckily. In South Korea, for example, the prestige of your university trumps almost all other concerns at a job interview, and often even in social relationships...

I agree that not everyone needs to go to university, and that you can often learn a lot more and a lot better outside of universities, but we'd have to change everyone's attitude first. Otherwise those people who choose to educate themselves will just be discriminated against. Often the idea you're expressing gets twisted around by politicians to mean something like "Poor people don't need to go to college; they should just stay poor."

Of course I don't think you mean or want that, but I think we should be careful. How can we make a change that would de-emphasize universities (and especially the "prestige" of a university), but at the same time limit the perpetuation of social inequality?

I've heard in Germany, though I think this may have changed, that there was (is?) a two-tiered education system. Bright students went to more academic high schools, then to universities, and weaker students went into vocational training. This would be fine, except that what made those students so bright was often that their parents paid for private tutors, had leisure time to help with homework, etc. So really this just made things worse.... students with university degrees regularly getting better jobs, making more money, having more capacity to help their children do the same, while those with vocational training end up doing the opposite.

Young students shouldn't idealize college, but unless the attitude of the nation changes, we can't expect poorer students to bear the majority of the burden.... at the same time, to go back to main idea of the post, asking for free tuition without changing the overall perception of what college means-- even if it actually happened-- could very well only make inequality worse.

as a side note, when you said "If you have free public education why would you need zero-interest student loans?" I laughed out loud. That really was a dreadful oversight in the original post.

Thanks for the honest reply, Joe. I really appreciate when people can have a decent conversation with one another over the internet like this. Even if I don't agree with you on everything, being able to communicate with each other is the first step in making a world that works for everyone. Keep doing what you do.

[-] 3 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

There are scholarships, grants, and financial aid for hard working or poor students. I don't know if it is enough. The problem I see is middle class kids that go to college for 4 years to party, thake the easiest courses, and then don't want to pay there loans back. I went to college. I lived with those people. They told me I worked to hard and needed to come out an party. "You could die tomorrow man" to which I replied, "What if there is a slight chance that I don't die to morrow and live to be 70 years old?" What if I have to support a family along the way? No I will stay here and do my differential equations and thermodynamics homework."

Yea "free education and zero interest loans" What was even funnier was that the next paragraph says "These are interlocking principles, and should not stand on their own"

Germany does still have the two tiered system. I have a friend at work from Germany. Your path is decided in middle school. I would have been in trouble in that system because I did not get my act together until college.

[-] 1 points by gtrabbit (11) 2 years ago

I actually read something today that confirms my suspicions of the two-tiered system, put out by the OECD: http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/2/7/45002641.pdf

Also says a lot of other interesting stuff relevant to the conversation here.

I'm not sure what to say about the motivation of people to study. In South Korea, it's much worse. Kids study really hard in high school, then mostly just drink and party through college. In other countries, it seems to be the same thing. One thing that article suggests is that perceived social immobility spoils motivation. I know that makes sense for me. Now that the US economy is financialized, it seems like all the most common jobs do is just steal money from other people. Hardly anybody is actually making anything that improves our lives. Some exceptions, but mostly it's a service/banking economy. I know I was never very motivated to succeed or do well at any of those things. Maybe if, as a nation, we were engaged in some sort of real, worthwhile projects, then students might be more motivated. Just an idea.

Generally I try not to take the stance of blaming people, especially younger kids, but would rather see what causes that laziness, or what promotes amoral behavior, and then lets work on fixing that. When I was in college and I came home from work and had to walk over drunk frat boys puking in my yard so I could get into my apartment and do my homework, I definitely was angry at those kids, but now.... now, I guess there's no point in being angry at anyone. There's a problem; let's fix it. Maybe all it'll take is for parents to turn off the TV and actually interact with their children, but we should do something.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

What is interesting about all this is Germany and Korea are making some of the highest quality products. Germany for years and Korea over the past 10 years. BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Blaupunkt, Zeiss... form Germany and Kia, Hyundai, Samsung, LG.. from Korea. Perhaps there system makes sense.

I know that the culture in Korea is quite different. Gamers are like sports heroes. They compete in stadiums like we watch baseball but they are playing video games like Starcraft which is very brain intensive and thought. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnmgsX-MlhQ

[-] 3 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

This is excellent.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28158) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Is Our Government Not Allowed To Ask Other Countries How THEY Deal With Student Debt?

If the ( our ) government is not concerned ( go figure ). We the People should be concerned.

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2040) 1 day ago

Occupy still supports Student debt relief

New action planned

http://strikedebt.org/update4/

We've influenced many other groups as well.

http://younginvincibles.org/category/news/

http://speak.younginvincibles.org/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=17698

Know any others?

[-] 2 points by markrome (8) 2 years ago

Why can't Congress borrow money from the Fed at 0.75%, just like the big Wall Street banks, and loan it to students at the same rate or slightly higher rate to cover administrative costs?.

When elites are held in check, typically by effective legal mechanisms, everyone else in society does much better and sustained economic growth becomes possible. But powerful people - kings, barons, industrialists, bankers - work long and hard to relax the constraints on their actions. And when they succeed, the effects are not just redistribution toward themselves but also an undermining of economic growth and often a tearing at the fabric of society.

Please sign the petition to the U.S. Senate Banking and House Financial Services Committee asking for improved oversight of federal banking and market regulators to keep big Wall Street banks in check.

To read more about what we’re trying to do and to sign the petition, click here: http://www.change.org/petitions/u-s-senate-banking-and-u-s-house-financial-services-committees-use-technology-to-provide-oversight-of-u-s-banking-and-market-regulators?share_id=HTpDoOQNJgpe=d2e

It'll just take a minute!

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

In any wealthy and civilised society Education should be a right and free of the advantages of family wealth and connections and also be democratic and meritocratic. Surely IF we can finance Empire ("Your Tax Dollars at War" : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31690.htm ) then we can educate the kids ; give them better life opportunities ; make them more employable and then tax them on their future incomes in order to finance the next generation as 'Society as a Whole' moves forward !!

ad iudicium ...

[-] 2 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

Nice links. Thanks.

[-] 1 points by jimmycrackerson (940) from Blackfoot, ID 2 years ago

From wikkanpedia:

"Most leading textbook companies publish a new edition every 3 or 4 years, more frequently in math & science. Harvard economics chair James K. Stock has stated that new editions are often not about significant improvements to the content. "New editions are to a considerable extent simply another tool used by publishers and textbook authors to maintain their revenue stream, that is, to keep up prices," A study conducted by The Student PIRGs found that a new edition costs 12% more than a new copy of previous edition, and 58% more than a used copy of the previous edition. Textbook publishers maintain these new editions are driven by faculty demand. The Student PIRGs' study found that 76% of faculty said new editions were justified “half of the time or less” and 40% said they were justified “rarely” or “never.” The PIRG study has been criticized by publishers, who argue that the report contains factual inaccuracies regarding the annual average cost of textbooks per student."

[-] 1 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

What you can get is relative to the power you wield. Right now you will be lucky to keep the interest rates down. But that won't last long if the elections go the wrong way. As long as money is political speech your voice is a whisper. Move to Amend to get the power you need. Or you can fight the money with your own money. But you won't do that.

[-] 1 points by nickm11 (27) 2 years ago

How about an old fashioned sit-in on Congress?

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Excellent idea.!

[-] 1 points by Ats6902 (2) 2 years ago

Why stop at student debt? How about mortgages, credit cards, car loans,etc. Think how the economy would flourish if everyone got a do-over.

[-] 1 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

The banksters got a do-over. You are a do-ee. They don't get do-overs.

BTW, they tried that to some degree. That is when the Tea Party came alive.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Yeah make the criminal 1% bankers that crashed the world economy and lost 40% of our home value forgive all that debt. They need to be punished. And it seems fair and appropriate to me. And yeah the economy would explode. 'Cause we are the best consumers on the planet baby. Demand would go up and the so called "job creators would finally hire. Lets make sure they hire americans with tax incentives. That would do it.

[-] 1 points by nobnot (529) from Kapaa, HI 2 years ago

You mean like A I G . B O A, Chase. ETC- -.

[-] 1 points by banjo1919 (5) 2 years ago

No one made you take out the debt .... if you can't repay it don't take it. Plain and simple. If you don't want the burden of debt, don't take out a loan.

college is not a right it is a privilege, enough of this entitlement society.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

College should be a right! Free college for all! It's the only solution.

[-] -1 points by Fez (20) 2 years ago

Financing 101 right there

[-] 2 points by banjo1919 (5) 2 years ago

it is pretty simple. You are not forced to take debt.

no one should get out for free , this is such nonsense.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

The banks shouldn't "get out for free" their reckless criminal actions crashed the economy and lost 40% of our home value. Lets punish them by makin them forgive at least half of the 1trillion student debt for any working class American.

[-] 1 points by rutgers797 (37) from Wall, NJ 2 years ago

9/11 was an inside job and so was the student debt racketeering ring.

[-] 0 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

how much do you owe?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6831) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

We should restore the tax deduction for consumer interest; instead of encouraging more it would reduce it. The amount of consumer interest exploded when it was removed from the deduction line, even those that pushed for it said it encouraged bad behavior and should not be deductable. The real result was that without that annual reminder of how much you had paid in interest people let it get away from them. I suspect those who pushed this knew this would happen all along.

BTW I do support your cause, here's something I had to say awhile back on it:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/people-talking-about-student-debt-forgiveness-dont/

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

People need to start focusing on the pathetic standards that our high schools have.

Their standards should be going up, not down, as our society progesses..

[-] 0 points by SteveKJR1 (8) 2 years ago

OK, lets say the government eliminates the current student debt and gives free college education

What will be offered of equal value in return?

If you say nothing then what gives you the right to take my money for your needs but yet I cannot use my money for my needs.

[-] 2 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

I don't know. Just off the top of my head - a highly educated, high functioning, intelligent and innovative society. That has the intellect and innovative capacity to create more wealth. Since many low level labor jobs are now being done using slave wages in China. Just a random thought.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

Solution: Boycott colleges!

Today, everyone wanting to have a decent job has to go to college, even studying irrelevant subjects...because EVERYONE else has a degree!

And that for the majority of jobs, which DON'T NEED a college degree.

(one doesn't need a college degree to work as a low-level office employee in a bank for example, it's just that if everyone else has one, the employer hires the one with the degree)

Why not call for a mass college boycott? This will mean: 1)No coercion of people to go to college to be competitive as not many others have a degree(= no college debt and people are better off even doing lower-wage jobs as they won't have the college debt payments) 2)Less demand for college-> lower tuitions.

Scientific education (Bachelors in SCIENCE,BSc's) should be that:for people planning to become scientists, and a society can't have so many scientists wanting to work as scientists.

[-] 0 points by Arbour (-3) 2 years ago

Free public education, past debt forgivness and zero interest rate loans are all government subsidies footed by taxpayers; taxpayers who compromise more than 1% of the population you'll need majority support to PUSH this - focus on obtaining that support.

"The truth is that student debt relief is too important to be left to elected officials. They are chronically dependent on the financial backing of the lending industry, and are structurally incapable of addressing this crisis, let alone resolving it." Blatantly false - elected officials are where the answers to these questions rest. There are no free lunches people, push to have congress/CBO put a number on it and PUSH to round up support as to the critical priority of the issue.

[-] 0 points by markrome (8) 2 years ago

Perhaps the starting point is ending "Wall Street’s stranglehold on Congress."

When elites are held in check, typically by effective legal mechanisms, everyone else in society does much better and sustained economic growth becomes possible. But powerful people - kings, barons, industrialists, bankers - work long and hard to relax the constraints on their actions. And when they succeed, the effects are not just redistribution toward themselves but also an undermining of economic growth and often a tearing at the fabric of society.

Please sign the petition to the U.S. Senate Banking and House Financial Services Committee asking for improved oversight of federal banking and market regulators.

To read more about what we’re trying to do and to sign the petition, click here: http://www.change.org/petitions/u-s-senate-banking-and-u-s-house-financial-services-committees-use-technology-to-provide-oversight-of-u-s-banking-and-market-regulators?share_id=HTpDoOQNJgpe=d2e

It'll just take a minute!

[-] 1 points by forjustice (178) from Kearney, NE 2 years ago

Signed.

Here's a petition to for restoring bank regulations and another for correcting the student debt issue.

http://act.boldprogressives.org/sign/sign_glasssteagall/?source=bp

http://justiceparty.nationbuilder.com/tags/student_loan

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I'm with you. Signed and passed on. Good luck!

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

They're right behind you little horsey. Run away. Support OWS. Vote out pro 1% politicians

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

The tuition costs rise because too much money is available. Simple supply and demand. Larger student loans breed higher tuition costs, which breeds larger student loans. A vicious cycle fueled by the students own greed for a better paying job.

Play the game of debt with shrewd and corrupt businessman and tell me who will win. Stop playing.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Blaming the victim (Greedy students?) is the wrong approach. Thegreedy ones are the bankers who profit off of student debt and the colleges who take advantage of the govt grants/loans. Create an incentive to cut college costs. Give more loans to cheaper colleges. College Transparency as listed above. Expand Pell grants. O% loans (as listed above) Many solutions I could agree with but not blaming the victims. Sounds too republican.

[-] 4 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

The solution is in the students hands. They have the choice to cooperate or not with the corporate education system.

Same with our support for corporate products that funnel part of the profit to influence congress. Koch brothers for example. Instead buy used, buy generic, buy in bulk, make your own.

We feed the monster, it grows, then complain that it takes too much food to feed it.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I like used, generic, bulk, homemade. No doubt. And I agree we have to take some responsibility. But I cannot just blame the student because THEY are the victim. The blame has to be put on the beast1st and we all must be educated about the beast feeding. Not everyone knows that feeding the beast is bad.

[-] 0 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

They need to see the movie " Little Shop of Horrors". Loans are like the potted plant. But don't step inside it's flower!

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Feed me NOW Seymore!!

[-] 0 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

Chuckle.

[-] -1 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

Students are not victims. That is silly, intellectually dishonest, and counterproductive.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Studenst are victims of banks profit over people policies! victims of right wing policies that have cut college grants and allowed banks loan abuse! victims of colleges who unreasonably raise costs hundreds of percent in 10 years. Far and above the rate of inflation. Colleges have become big business and as such victimize students because they have also put profit over people. Students are also victims of the massive unemployment that the 1% created when they crashed the world economy. Your comment has no substance. It is simply insults. We disagree I guess, but you only offer insults.

[-] 0 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

I have never seen a bank force anyone to apply for a loan; never. I have never seen a college force anyone to apply for admission. You are confusing cause with effect. If students chose not to support this madness, colleges couldn't raise costs and banks couldn't profit. We have the power to make a difference if we take responsibility for OUR actions and stop blaming OTHERS.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

People do have the power. But we are conditioned to behave in a certain way. I won't pretend that the banks didn't crash the economy and lose 40% of our home value. I can't blame the people who have paid for that scam by losing their home and life savings. No. the entities that came out of that bubble with ever increasing profit/salaries/bonuses are the con artists. I can't blame the victims of the 1% banker scam. You excuse the criminal 1% bankers when you blame the good honest hard working American home owner. I stand with them. Do you stand with the 1% banksters?

[-] 1 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

" we are conditioned to behave in a certain way..." Really? Conditioned? We have no free choice? We are helpless victims? Well, then I guess there is no hope.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Blame the 1% criminals who crashed the world economy! Why do you let that slide. You stand with those 1% criminals.?

[-] 1 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

It isn't about BLAME. It is about empowering the 99% to make real positive changes. BLAME doesn't change the world, courageous individuals with vision and character do. You won't find them wallowing in blame or complaining about how they were "conditioned". Where do I stand with the 1% banksters? I refuse to participate in their profiteering. I deal with banks on MY TERMS or I don't deal with them at all. If they offer me a bad deal- I just say, no. Not complicated but empowering and very effective.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Informing the masses of the reality that the 1% criminals created this crash will go a long way to undo the conditioning we are subjected to. We are made to believe that we are to blame. So we stay quiet and take it. Lets be FAIR.! The 1% criminal banksters crashed the world economy and lost 40% of our home value. We MUST prosecute them and take back the money they so irresponsibly lost. So yeah it is important to establish, embrace the cause/blame. Don't make excuses for them. Don't apologize for them, Don't attempt to protect them from the swift hand of justice. They must PAY for what they did.

[-] 0 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

LOL. Reminds me of the Bruce Cockburn song, "Everybody wants to see justice done-- on somebody else." Bankers, looking out for their own self-interests, were simply responding to CONSUMER DEMAND and FEDERAL GOVERNMENT mandates to lend to uncredit-worthy borrowers.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Your denial of the criminal 1% bankers destructive actions is your failure. I think you do recognize these banks were reckless, irresponsible and DID crash the world economy. You just can't get passed your partisan brainwashing of the almighty market. Well they screwed us. The should be punish, regardless of your excuses for them, or your pretense at not recognizing it. You stand with the 1%. I stand with the American people.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Yeah but if someone mugs me it's ok if I blame him right. What are you some kinda banker apologist.?

And Clinton betrayed democratic progressive principles when he caved in and signed the right wing legislation (voted on by republicans overwhelmingly) that freed up the banks to crash the economy. But that doesn't mean we should let them get away with it. Prosecute them, and get our money back.! G#d Damn it! you 1% apologist!

[-] -1 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

If someone mugs you, it's ok if I blame him. If you apply for, receive, and agree to a loan, and consider that being "mugged" - you have serious issues.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

AAAHHH! So you defend the 1% criminals who crashed the world economy, lost 40% of our home value, created the Bush great recession and an unemployment crises now in its 4th year. The students, mortgage borrowers, and I suppose the unemployed are to blame. As well as the government. Don't the politicians work for the 1% bankers you excuse and apologize for.? You don't support OWS do you? You are anti 99%?

[-] -1 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

First, it was the Clinton administration that established the banking regulations requiring banks to lend to unqualified borrowers which directly led to the housing bubble. But you miss the point. I am pro-99%. Instead of this self-excusing fixation on BLAME, I am focused on the power of the 99% to make things better. No politician is elected without support of the 99%- it is mathematically impossible. No bank stays in business without support of the 99%. It is time to stop the blame game and start to "be the change you want to see in the world." ""All blame is a waste of time. No matter how much fault you find with another, and regardless of how much you blame him, it will not change you." — Wayne Dyer

[-] 3 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

"Beware of the half truth. You may have gotten hold of the wrong half."

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

"You will be judged by the way you treat the least among you"

[-] 4 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

Exactly. So treat people like empowered human beings with the ability to make wise decisions and make a difference in this world; not helpless, pathetic victims who are powerless against the elite. Treat people with the respect they deserve as having the potential to make their own choices that lead to a wonderful life.

[-] 1 points by forjustice (178) from Kearney, NE 2 years ago

People are acting empowered. That's why they're demanding reform. The ones acting pathetic and powerless are the ones staying silent while the 1 percent force them out of school or into debt.

[-] 0 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

Acting empowered means making your own decisions and not allowing the 1 percent to "force" you to do a damn thing. If you go into debt, you were not "forced"- it is by choice. The way to overcome the 1 percent is to man-up and take responsibility for your decisions. I have never seen anyone "forced" to go to the bank and apply for a loan. If you don't get real; you won't get anywhere.

[-] 0 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

I say people should man up and walk away from the predatory deals they made. Don't pay the student loans or the mortgage. Mass defaults will force the banks to renegotiate. This business of begging white collar criminals (bankers) to make things better is a no-go strategy. These people tanked the economy. No one is under any obligation to repay them for anything.

[-] 0 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

I should have listened to my mother when she said, "never have a battle of wits, with an unarmed man..." much less one with a self-centered, blame everyone else for my choices, I don't care about anyone else, individual.

[-] 0 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

I say stop borrowing. Live within your means. If you were victimized by a white collor criminal, then you are under no obligation to that criminal. Walk.

If people stop playing by the rules when the rules are stacked against them, the rules will change.

When banks need to compete for people to lend money to, then the terms of their loans will improve.

[-] -3 points by Growup6 (-125) 2 years ago

How does this mind control thing work exactly? Students have near countless options for pursing education in terms of course of student, where to study, how long to study, and how to pay for it. By reform, you simply mean more subsidy and more freebies. But there's ample subsidy now. What's missing is better decisions with what's available.

[-] 2 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

What are the countless options available for how to pay for school?

Tuition has tripled over the last 20 years. It is no longer possible for kids to work their way through school. Unless their parents pay their tuition, they must take out loans. And I am talking about the less expensive schools like City University of New York where I did my undergrad. I graduated in 1995. Since then the tuition has skyrocketed.

[-] -2 points by Growup6 (-125) 2 years ago

Tuition is going up so quickly because there's already too much money being thrown at it. It's fueling the inflation that students want even more money to combat. But that's not how to combat inflation. Better decisions is how to combat inflation and that's something sorely missing among today's students.

Countless options, yes, there are. Community college or four year school, living at home, living on campus/off campus. Public school or private school, 3 years, 4 years or 5 years, working or not working, engineering or women's studies, out-of-state or in-state. Then there's the school choice itself. That's a lot of choices.

Debt isn't just binary my friend, either you have it or you don't. It's about how MUCH debt and it's about what you studied. $100k for an African American Studies major is a lot different than $25k for an engineering degree. It's time students learn the difference too, before they go running for more subsidy.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

You said there are countless options in terms of how to pay for school. What are the countless options in terms of how to pay for school?

[-] 1 points by Growup6 (-125) 2 years ago

One, and pretty damn obvious, pay less. I have a niece using large amounts of borrowed money to attend an out of state public university. The quality of the school is about even with her home state, yet the cost is probably 50% more. That's a bad money decision. You can also pick up credits at community college, and that's damn near free. Then there's public vs private. You can also make decisions about working during the school year and summer and perhaps even taking a year break. Parents can also make different choices. Perhaps even a greater inclination to belt tightening over borrowing can trim some thousands off the debt bill.

Better decisions around all the controllables dramatically lessens the debt problem. More attention to costs, more attention to the course of study (and in particular, avoiding some of the dumbest decisions), and more attention to how to pay for it all play their parts.

We have too much money being recklessly spent on secondary education. It's fueling inflation. Just more money without better decision making will simply fuel more inflation and more calls for more money. The cycle gets broken when students and their parents smarten up.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 1 year ago

There will always be ways to go to a less expensive school. This does not mean that tuition at that less-expensive school has not gone up 600% and now requires student loans to be taken out to pay for.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Stop blaming the victims. lets all insist on punishing the banks that crashed the world economy, created massive unemployment, lost 40% of our home value, and took tax payer bail outs to save their reckless, irresponsible, predatory behavior. The good hard working American homeowners aren't helpless, or pathetic. But they can't be expected to succeed against these criminal 1% bankers.

[-] 3 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

Stop creating "victims!" YES WE CAN SUCCEED against greed and corruption- but not with the helpless philosophy you are preaching. We have the POWER to choose our actions and NO ONE can force us to do business with any bank. Stand up or shut up.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Yeah blame the victims. The banks control everything. You make excuses for these criminals. You sound like a republican 1% tool. We should stand up against your criminals friends who crashed the world economy, created massive unemployment, lost 40% of our home value, and took tax payer bail outs to save their reckless, irresponsible, predatory behavior. The good hard working American homeowners aren't helpless, or pathetic. But they can't be expected to succeed against these criminal 1% bankers. You are a traitor to your class! A tool! A fool!

[-] 2 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

Some do succeed against the 1% bankers. Others choose to, call people names, play the victim, and refuse to take responsibility for their lives. Enjoy.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Why don't you call for the criminal 1% bankers to take responsibility for the deep economic recession, the massive unemployment, the loss of 40% home value. They get a pass on that? I guess you don't mind the way they F%$Ked us. I guess your ok? the hell with everyone else.? Must be there own fault never all the irresponsibilities and recklessness of the banks.

[-] 0 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

I sometimes wonder what all the protests are about. Why are the students paying their loans? Why not mass default? Why take out a mortgage? Why all the effort to keep people in houses they never could afford to start with? Renting is slmost always cheaper. Why protest that we want those who hold all the cards to treat us better. Why not simply stop dealing with them at all?

[-] 1 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

"Why are the students paying their loans?" They changed the bankruptcy laws so that you can never get rid of that debt. If your parents cosigned and you get killed they will garnish their flippin Social Security checks. Whose idea was that? Didn't the banks already have these loans guaranteed by the government? But one presidential candidate made money by bankrupting companies.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I think the bankrupcy law change occurred in the 1990's. Another bad right wing (Gingrich) policy, the repubs proudly trumpet and a few dems caved in to. It should be changed to help the 99% of course.

[-] 2 points by ronniepaul2012 (214) 2 years ago

Correct me if I am wrong, but the federal govt GUARANTEES STUDENT LOANS. If you default, we the TAXPAYERS pay the bill. It really hasn't much to do with the EVIL BANKSTERS. How the hell else do you think a 19 yr old can get a loan under 4%??????

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

The American students owe the criminal 1% banksters that crashed the world economy! Banks should be punished for their irresponsible, reackless actions by forcing them to forgive the student debt. Free college for all! It's the only answer!

[-] 1 points by ronniepaul2012 (214) 2 years ago

Just get us taxpayers off the hook for student loans first.

If we are gonna give away money, I'd rather see foreclosures stopped first, tho. Your newly minted college grads still need a basement couch to crash on.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I think banks can afford debt forgiveness for student debt, cr card debt, mtg debt. As punishment, or as national patriotic duty.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

You've posted an anti war link. At least this Pres has ended you're boy Bushs illegal war in Iraq! That is real progress!.

[Removed]

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Our Pres has ended US military action in Iraq. The Iraqi people should follow our lead. I won't blame Pres Obama for the violence they perpetrate against each other. Your boy Bush started that illegal war maybe you can lay some blame on him. Saddam Hussein brutalized his people (with Reagan and Bush I knowledge and arms) for decades maybe you can lay some blame with them. But not the Pres who did the right thing and ended our military action there. Sorry. Your outrage needs to be redirected to the proper people listed above.

[-] -3 points by vvv0627 (-16) 2 years ago

VQkag2 is lying across the board. Here is the truth...

Obama's Failed Iraq Policy Threatens U.S. Security

Posted GMT 6-27-2012 0:0:12

The Obama administration wants Americans to believe their Iraq policy is a success even as Baghdad is heading off a political cliff that favors Iran.

President Barack Obama came to office "more interested in keeping his 2008 campaign promise to bring the troops home than the long-term success of our efforts there," said U.S. Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.). Obama withdrew most of our troops and advisers in Dec. 2010 leaving that country in bad hands.

Sen. Inhofe, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, continued "Now, the Iraqi leader that the Obama administration supports, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, threatens to turn the country away from democracy." The senator warns "If Iraq fails; history will find it due in part to President Obama's failed foreign policy there."

Obama supporters understand the domestic political risks associated with Sen. Inhofe's warning. That prompted Democratic Party operatives to launch an Iraq public opinion survey to create a positive perception of Maliki, Obama's man in Baghdad.

Last month Iraqi and international media took the bait and reported the survey's results as good news for Maliki and by association Obama. For example, the New York Times reported a plurality of Iraqis felt the country was going in the right direction and Iraq Daily News reported Maliki's popularity has risen to 53 percent, an increase of 19 points since Oct. 2011.

Obama loyalists hosted and conducted the survey. The National Democratic Institute, which commissioned the survey, is led by Democrat Party luminaries like Madeleine Albright, former U.S. Secretary of State, and former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean. NDI is funded by institutions like the United Nations Democracy Fund and pro-Obama foundations like George Soros's Open Society Institute.

Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research (GQRR), which "specializes in political polling and campaign strategy," conducted the survey. GQRR's client list includes the AFL-CIO, Planned Parenthood, Democrat political candidates, and overseas progressive leaders.

The DNI/GQRR survey is likely skewed to make Maliki appear falsely popular, a clever way to deceive the American public and to protect the president.

Tyler Harber, international pollster and a partner at Harcom Strategies said "The GQRR survey analysis isn't exactly forthcoming. The sampling … could potentially skew the results toward the opinions of more urban areas" which favor Maliki.

Reidar Visser, an Iraqi affairs expert and fellow at the Norwegian Institute of International Affairs, is also skeptical about the GQRR survey. "In the past, such Iraqi opinion polls have proven highly unreliable as forecasters of issues," Visser told niqash.org's Cathrin Schaer.

Polls aside, there is a lot happening in Iraq that Obama's supporters don't want American voters to know about.

First, Iraqi sectarian violence is back with a vengeance. Last week was the most violent since March 2010 with almost one hundred non-suicide bomb attacks that left more than 107 dead and hundreds more injured.

Stephanie Sanok, an analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, told the Associated Press the absence of American forces combined with the government divisions and weak Iraqi security have emboldened the militants.

Iraq's political crisis is markedly sectarian which fuels the violence. Maliki is leading the sectarian attack by sidelining his political opponents and refusing to share authority such as in the case of Vice President Tareq al-Hashemi.

On the day the U.S. withdrew from Baghdad Maliki's security forces surrounded the residences of prominent Sunni politicians including Vice President al-Hashemi, to arrest him on charges of running death squads. But Hashemi escaped to northern Iraq and sectarian violence has since skyrocketed.

"It is very troubling the Maliki-led government is operating on cultivating sectarian tensions and executing policies to suppress democracy at the expense of the Iraqi people," said Vice President al-Hashimi from his exiled refuge. He continued, "Iraqi politicians must put the past and our differences behind us to improve the lives of our people."

But Maliki isn't putting past differences behind him. Rather he is resurrecting memories Iraqis associate with their former dictator, Saddam Hussein.

Second, the DNI/GQRR survey found most non-Shia Iraqis believe Maliki has too much power and 64 percent say he acts like a dictator. Iraqis have good reason to associate Maliki's actions with their former dictator.

The prime minister is consolidating personal power as did Saddam Hussein says British scholar Toby Dodge who outlined Maliki's power grab at a forum hosted by the National Defense University and reported in Foreign Affairs.

Maliki completely transformed Iraq's security and intelligence forces to be at his beck and call, explained Dodge. The prime minister retained the title and role of defense and interior ministers, controls all high-ranking appointments, and created special counter-terrorism brigades that report directly to him. These special forces, which some Iraqis label fedayeen [Arabic for "those who sacrifice"] al-Maliki, remind them of Hussein's fedayeen Saddam which performed the dictator's dirty work.

The prime minister also tightened control over intelligence services. Today, as in Saddam's time, Maliki has six separate intelligence services watching each other and everyone else, according to Dodge.

Maliki consolidated judicial power under his thumb. Dodge said Maliki brought the supreme federal court under his direct control and eliminated watchdog agencies set-up by the U.S. to oversee elections and fight corruption.

"Maliki's consolidation of his grip on the country's security forces, while manipulating the courts and rule of law for his own political gain, go hand in hand with the disturbingly close relationship he maintains with Iran," said Mark Alsalih, senior advisor to Iraqiya, a Sunni-dominated political party.

Finally, Maliki is dangerously close to Iran's leaders because he owes his job to Tehran's mullahs.

Iran helped engineer Maliki's ascent to the prime ministership in December 2010 by bringing Sheik Muqtada al-Sadr's bloc into Maliki's fold, which ended a nine-month political stalemate with Iraqiya leader Ayad Allawi, who won the most seats in the 2010 election.

Now Maliki barks to Tehran's commands. He supports Iran's rogue allies like besieged Syrian president Bashar al-Assad by defending the dictator's violent crackdown and even signed trade deals with Syria to appease Tehran.

Iraq's economy is wide open to Iran as well. Maliki signed more than 100 economic agreements with Iran and now Iranian companies work inside Iraq on major reconstruction projects. For example, Iraq, Iran and Syria signed a $10 billion natural gas deal to construct a pipeline originating in Iran and extending to Syria.

There is official discussion about an even closer relationship. Iran's first vice president Mohammad Reza Rahimi called for forging a full union between Iran and Iraq, according to al Arabiya News, which Maliki hasn't rejected. Maliki in fact told the Islamic Republic News Agency "Iraq is interested in comprehensive expansion of relations with its good neighbor, Iran."

That relationship is rapidly maturing. This April Maliki received a red-carpet welcome in Iran where he met key leaders including Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei, who said he sees a bright future for Iraq. But Maliki's most interesting meeting was with Mahmud Shadrudi, an Iraqi who is a member of the Iranian Guardian Council.

That visit fueled speculation Maliki's Daawa party might adopt Shadrudi as a collective marja, "religious reference." That's important because Shadrudi belongs to the school of the Iranian revolution and advocates a leading role for the clergy in government much like Iran. Does Maliki entertain the idea of remaking Iraq in Iran's image?

President Obama's Iraq policy is a total failure which skewed surveys can't cover-up. Thanks to Obama, America is a victim of its inaction in Iraq and the Iraqi people are saddled with an Iranian-friendly dictator, and U.S. national security is degraded.

By Robert Maginnis Human Events

Source: http://www.aina.org/news/20120626190012.htm

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Nah. You must be a partisan if you think an ended war is worse than a raging war. You got anything else? "cause thats just tired and wrong.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

20,000 contractors is not ending a war, dummy.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Your propaganda is basically a republican partisan attack!. You blame Pres Obama for the current Iraqi leaders actions that your boy Bush installed. Can you say deflection? Sen imhoff is just another right wing wacko who is clearly anti Obama and pro fossil fuel which is at the root of all his inaccurate partisan nonsense. You dismiss any positive news as untrue, Whatever I don't care. I'm glad Pres Obama ended your boy Bushs illegal oil war. You did mention that 107 people were killed by the militants. That sounds like a good measure that Pres Obama succeeded in ending the worst hostilities in Iraq. Sounds like you made my point. Obama is not responsible for the lingering current iraqi violence. Your boys Bush I, & II, Reagan and their friend Saddam are responsible for the continued violence because of what they did for oil over the last 30 years! Pres Obama is responsible for the great progress in Iraq because of the plan he immediately implemented within a year of taking office.

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I recognize that our problems are rooted in the right wing policies that republicans trumpet proudly and some dems cave in to because the dems have moved right for the last 30 years and have betrayed their progressive principles. Many dems still are progressive! No repubs are. We need a strong progressive agenda/party to correct the repub right wing policies that benefit the 1% and hurt the 99%. You pretend to be against repubs but you serve repubs when you push the fallacy that the parties are 2 sides of the same coin. Use resort to name calling because your argumenst are weak. You blame Obama for republican war crimes when he ended your repub illiegal war for oil! You are the plant! repub partisan plant!

[-] 1 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

Occupy rejected electoral politics (unlike the teabagger astroturfers) for a reason.

BHO got billions in Wall Street and corporate funding.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cid=N00009638

Partisan politics (like supporting a mainstream corporate(ie 1%)-backed political party) is part of what Occupy is against.

However, there are people like you that try to push people into the blue fold...

how's it now that BHO is curtailing the 1st Amendment as seen by NDAA and how Occupy is treated?

[-] -3 points by vvv0627 (-16) 2 years ago

You are the worst name-calling asshole in this forum, VQkag2, because you have the weakest arguments. You are a paid plant sent here to recruit wannabe revolutionaries who don't really wannabe revolutionaries into the Democratic party and thereby back under the control of the fascist elite pulling all the strings in our Two-Party Tyranny. You are a snake in the grass, VQkag2, and given the opportunity I would dispatch you accordingly. And that's not a threat: It's a promise...

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Name calling and threats. We're done. You've resorted to the schoolyard bullying tactics of your candidate Romney. I've won. You are dismissed.

[-] 0 points by vvv0627 (-16) 2 years ago

You can dismiss shit, wimp. And YOU are the biggest name-calling Troll around here, not me.

[-] -3 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Did Clinton sign it? Ofcourse.

Another bipartisan screwing in the 90's. Just like allowing CDS to be created, and repealing Glass Steagall, and GATT and NAFTA.

Keep having faith in one side of the two headed beast dude. Everyting should work out for you great.

PS- they have had the nation playing this game of cat and mouse for 100 years.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Right and left have been around for all human history not just 100 years. The dems have betrayed their progressive principles when they cave in to vote for right wing policies. We have no real progressive representation in the 2 party system. We need one to correct the right wing drift/policies that created this crash. There is a slim chance that the dems can be co opted and made to serve the 99%. With enough protest/pressure there is some possibility. I am encouraged when I see great politicians like Bernie Sanders supporting dem policies. So I still have some hope. We need OWS to put pressure on all pols to pass progressive agenda.

[-] 2 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

And they have a budget. Which the Republicans have ignored.

http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Yes. Great link.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

I just read that. What a dissapointment.

Until I see someone say the entire tax code needs to be eliminated and redone, the Fed needs to be controlled, the wars need to end, and we need to stop treating communist countries like China as fair trading partners, its all just fluff to me.

[-] 0 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

Sounds like Bernie Sanders.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

NO WAR

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

No drone assassinations!

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

thanks

[-] 1 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

We have to face it:

No government can help the 99% as they are all corrupt- that's how the capitalist system is.

People must push for the overthrowal of capitalism in the long term and immediate measures in the short term, regardless of who's in power.

If elections could change something, they would be illegal.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Repubs proudly trumpet the policies of the 1%. Dems betray their progressive principles when they cave in and vote for those right wing policies. Vote out pro 1% right wing pols (dems and repubs) Vote in progressive pols.

[-] 0 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

If the solution is to vote in progressive pols, why not stop doing anything else other than election campaigns for "progressive pols"?

In this way, we will be (according to you) most effective.

So, forget occupying parks, forget anti-debt campaigns, forget protection of families from evictions, forget GAs.

Just push to have Kucinich voted and all will be fine...

[-] 0 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

"There is a slim chance that the dems can be co opted and made to serve the 99%."

Keep dreaming. I say the GOP can be driven back to the ideas of Lincoln, with your reasoning.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

LMFAO. Repubs proudly trumpet the policies of the 1%. Dems betray their progressive principles when they cave in and vote for those right wing policies. Vote out pro 1% right wing pols (dems and repubs) Vote in progressive pols.

[-] 0 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

Anyone who gets corporate donations trumpets.

Maybe if there was a union-and-citizen-only backed candidate it could be a good idea.

But not BHO...

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cid=N00009638

As long as Dems are being paid donations by the 1%-and they will continue, as if not they would not be able to launch campaigns- they wil also trumpet with the 1% along with their GOP colleagues.

Solution? Push to ban corporate campaign contributions.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Protest/pressure all pols! Agitate for a progressive agenda. Prosecute the 1% criminals who crashed the economy. Protect working families being foreclosed on. Vote out right wing pro 1% pols. Elect progressives. March, Meet, Challenge all anti OWS rhetoric. Never give up.! Keep your eyes on the prize. We will, We will not be moved!

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Ban all donations! Public campaign finance.! Vote out right wing pro 1% pols, Elect progressive pols.!

[-] 1 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

We are trying to do just that. Need that amendment.

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Please do not click on this guys links. He is hostile, offensive and continually threatens people who disagree with his partisan attacks.

And in answer to your comment. Just as there has always been good and evil, there has always been right and left. America didn't make it up. No link is gonna dispute that.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Pres Obama has cut the use of contractor mercenaries that your war criminal Bush started using in earnest. Repubs would never cut the use because it serves their southern state constituents. That is real progress. Pres Obama will eliminate the use of contractor mercanaries. Repubs would never do that. That is the difference between the parties. Pres Obama has made real progress and will undo these right wing policy crimes. Nothing happens immediately, but I can see the progress. Your pretense not to see this real progress betrays your partisanship.!

[-] 1 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

Both parties bought into the Voodoo economics thing. Almost the whole world did. Except HW, who named it Voodoo economics. It was mass hypnosis.

Charlie Rangel won. One of the good guys. He introduces a bill that is a military draft with no exemptions to watch the chicken hawks squirm. ;p

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

stop gun runs to Mexico

watch gun companies squirm

[-] 1 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

WE need to send a guy and girl dressed up like a pimp and his underage ho to the NRA and take those guys down. They have gotten way too powerful. They have their nose in the contempt of Congress vote. They may get some Dems in conservative districts to vote for it.

[-] 2 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

If the students can afford to pay their loans, they should, but if they cannot afford it, they should walk.

So what if you can't discharge the debt? Live a life where you do not borrow and it won't matter. Stop borrowing money from banks. They will continue their userous practices so long as there are willing borrowers. When they have to compete to attract borrowers, they will change their practices.

So what if your SS check is garnished? The first $9,000 a year is exempt and then the rest is garnished at 15%.

[-] 5 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

Turn on. Tune in. Drop out? We tried that. Then the babies came.

[-] 0 points by Growup6 (-125) 2 years ago

The "Lemme borrow a lot of money and file BK when I graduate he he he" stunt was pulled by a previous generation. To keep taxpayers from being scammed in the future, the rules were changed.

Nothing about this provision should be a surprise. But I guess for a generation that can't figure out that $125k in debt for an elementary education major is a bad idea, not bothering to understand the terms of the loans is no surprise.

[-] 3 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

You are right about the return on investment sucking. I ran some numbers. You can make more profit by driving a truck when you grad high school.

See something wrong here? Or should only the rich get college?

[-] 0 points by Growup6 (-125) 2 years ago

You should re-run your numbers. College remains an excellent investment, but it's not if you make poor decisions. You have to put some thought into what you study, how well you do, and how much you borrow. The current generation had this idea that simply graduating was the only concern and, once you're out, no amount of debt is too much debt (if they even gave that much thought to it).

All that's needed is some better decision making by students. More money being as poorly spent as current money will only fuel more tuition inflation. That's something you learn in college.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Your criminal 1% banker friends have F%$ked the economy. And victimized millions of American homeowners. You stand with the criminals proudly. Like your republican traitorous politicians. I stand with the good hard working American homeowner.

[-] -2 points by Growup6 (-125) 2 years ago

You aren't a victim when you do it to yourself.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Your criminal 1% banker friends have F%$ked the economy. And victimized millions of American homeowners. You stand with the criminals proudly. Like your republican traitorous politicians. I stand with the good hard working American homeowner. You are unamerican! selfish! traitorous tool. ignorant fool of the 1%!

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

The homeowner? These people don't own their homes. The banks own them. People need to stop viewing a home they have no equity in and owe $200,000 on as a home they OWN. They need to pack a suitcase and walk out the front door. Stop buying into the bankers propaganda. It is cheaper to rent.

[-] 4 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Tax policy in our country benefits homeowners (equity or not) not renters. People should be able to purchase a home! If our system doesn't create the kind of jobs/income to do so we have to fix the system! Not give up, and tell people well it is better to rent for YOU. (but not me, I got mine the hell with everyone else.)

[-] -2 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

Why should people be able to purchase a home? Why is home ownership some sort of sacred cow, something that every fool is desperate to do -- to put a noose around their necks. It is a marketing ploy if ever there was one. The house God.

The tax policy benefits the banks, because it encourages people to take out huge loans for houses they cannot afford.

On a $200,000 loan the owner saves about $3,000 a year in taxes. That must be eaten up with school and property taxes and utility bills.

[-] 5 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

Some good points. You need a lot of spare cash and/or crazy good job security. Not much of that around these days. "encourages people to take out huge loans for houses they cannot afford." That was not possible before they started going nuts.

[-] 4 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

"fool" ? insults=weak arguments.

Shelter is the 1st priority. Providing a home for your family shouldn't be at the mercy of a landlord/market that can price you out very quickly. It is more secure! It is better financially! It should be affordable and the economy will benefit if more people are able to do.

Certainly we should not allow 1% criminal banksters to scam the people! It can be done properly. like after WWII. When we provided vets with all kinda benefits and created the most powerful middle class consumer market in history.

It doesn't have to become a scam/bubble that blows up and crashes the world economy!.

[-] -1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

Renting is shelter. Or buying a small home with money saved. Having a huge mortgage and no job or a reduced-income job is not security.

Yet so many people spend their last pennies and all of their future last pennies on these oversized homes they cannot afford. You go visit and freeze to death in the winter, because they cannot afford to heat all those empty rooms (and the opposite in summer).

I don't want vets getting anything extra. Or anyone else. No more of these marketing scams to get people into homes they cannot afford just to pay the banksters.

In 1945 the U.S. population was 140 million Today the U.S. population is 309 million

Today it is too expensive for your average Joe to own their own home. There are 3 times as many people and the same amount of property.

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

There's plenty of property! Renting is unsecure shelter! Small houses are fine. Banksters decide if borrowers can afford a mtg. They were irresponsible and reckless. That was a big part of the scam! Remember? Why do you ignore the 1% bankers culpability in this crash?

Helping vets is patriotic! Are you unamerican too? Helping people in need is humane! Are you not a human being? Stop blaming the victim of this most recent 1% bankster scam.

We can encourage the much more secure and much better (financially) home ownership. It doesn't have to be a scam/bubble that blows up. That occurred because of greedy 1% criminals. Not because of good honest hard working American homeowners!

I guess you got yours and the hell with everyone else? Seems kinda selfish?

[-] 3 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

"I guess you got yours and the hell with everyone else?" That is what a Libertarian is.

[-] -1 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

"Helping vets is patriotic! Are you unamerican too?"

So, going to Afghanistan to kill innocent afghans for the opium trade and the gas pipeline or to Iraq to kill for Big Oil is patriotic?

Now you sound like a republican.

Maybe you also agree with the "humanitarian" thing in Libya - after all, the Messiah started it.

[-] -2 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

I am not ignoring the culpability. No one owes a dime to those white collar criminals who created the housing bubble ponzi scheme.

Stop paying the mortgage and walk is my advice. There is zero security in paying a mortgage on a house whose value has dropped.

Wars are 1% money making scams. Military contracts are in the billions. This "hero" crap is more marketing to the masses so they go and get killed so some billionaire can buy another yacht. Calling people who do not support this scam "unAmerican" is to play right into their hands. If you do not agree, please tell me exactly what it is the soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq are accomplishing.

NOT a single law has changed since the economy tanked. We are just as vulnerable as we were before. Clinton removed Glass Steagall -- opening the investment fraud flood gates -- and every President since has rubberstamped that policy.

No, I didn't get mine. I do not own a house and my defaulted student loan debt is now approximately $150,000 and growing. Let's argue points and not make assumptions about one another.

[-] 4 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Clinton betrayed left wing principles when he signed the republican right wing policy that eliminated Glass steagle.

Vets deserve extra benefits because they risk their lives.That is what they accomplished! Risking their lives. Regardless of the politics which they are not responsible for.

Fin reform Laws have changed. Inadequate because of right wing success at watering it down, and delaying the implementation. More can be done with the right protest/pressure from the 99%

Walking away from a mtg is a flawed solution. An individual is hurt be such action. Banks should be made to cut the principle/interest rates since they are the ones who crashed the economy and lost 40%of home value. Thats a better solution.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

The risk of the lives of soldiers is not making anyone's lives better over here except the billionaires with the big military contracts. They should be discouraged from going although I understand that for financial reasons they may not have alternatives. Giving them special advantages when they come home will only further encourage them to go put themselves in danger on behalf of billionaires. The biggest danger to their lives btw happens to be suicide. More of them kill themselves than die in action. I wonder what that is about.

[-] -2 points by vvv0627 (-16) 2 years ago

Corporate puppet Clinton paved the way for what happened in corporate puppet Bush's term in more ways than one:

http://open.salon.com/blog/watchingfrogsboil/2012/01/13/freedom_to_fascism_redux_a_timeline_of_recent_us_history

[-] 0 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

If you're not a troll, can you not make it look like you are one? The vast majority of Occupy supporters are not this fanatical.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I am anti war! anti Bushs illegal iraqi oil war.! I will not punish the soldiers (who are also victims of your boy bushs 1% policy) for those crimes.

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Cut and paste? auto response?. Spam? Isn't that against forum rules?

Slow down little horsey! Whoa. boy. We're gonna hafta send ya' to the glue factory if ya' can't get a grip of yer senses there old girl..

[Removed]

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

You don't speak for anyone but yourself. You are calling me names and trying to silence me. This means clearly your arguments are weak and you know I'm right. You support the 1%.? I support the 99%.

[-] 0 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

You're good-willing perhaps, wanting to help the oppressed as i do, but doing it wrong. You're full of rage, which is understandable given what they do to us-i am as well.It's easy for me to say "**** banks" and leave it there. But rage is the worst counsil and should be kept for when we need to use it, not for article comments.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

You tellin me I'm wrong? Are you somehow my judge? LMFAO. My comments may project rage. But I ain't full of rage. I won't allow pro 1% comments pass without challenging them. Maybe you support the 1% and their poor misguided actions. Poor little rich guys. I don't! I support the 99% with facts, with intelligence, with rage, with patience, with protest, with all my heart.

[-] -2 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

I'm afraid he's a bit unhinged. As in Cookoo for Cocoa Puffs.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

You talkin about me.? Everytime I see your comments your insulting someone. Is this site just an outlet for you to be mean and hostile.? You like to bully people? I can't think of anything of substance I've ever seen you write. Our 1st exchange was when you were calling someone names. Ain'tcha got nutin else?

[-] -1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

Whatever you say Mr. Cookoo for Cocoa Puffs.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

More names. No need! I guess you disagree with something I've said, or perhaps you just like calling people names. Are you one of those people who lift themselves up by putting other people down? Or perhaps you had a bad experience in middle school? Kids can be cruel. Do you identify with the kids who tormented the school bus lady?

[-] -3 points by Growup6 (-125) 2 years ago

You are full of propaganda and your posts are just too stupid to believe as genuine. I think you write ridiculous things just to get a response. So, you've gotten boring.

[-] 4 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

But your still standing w/ the criminal 1%. And I still stand with the 99%.

[-] 4 points by DoubleVoice (115) 2 years ago

Just wanted to say VQ that you're one of the few sane people left on these boards. Everyone else was ran out by the trolls, and the mods don't want to do their jobs. That's why these people are picking on you: because you are RIGHT and they are WRONG!

Never stop fighting for the 99%, the REAL victims of this economy!

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

These people do not support OWS. They are 99%'rs that advocate for the 1%. They vote against their own interests. And the 1% cannot succeed without 1/2 the 99% (repubs?) voting against their own interests. They done fool anyone.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

It is a Ron Paul thing. They tried to co-opt our occupation. Almost did.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I haven't been to tp sites. I will consider that.

[-] 1 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

Not many left. We were almost seven months. The kids will spout right wing talking point to you. You just have to be furious with Obama or you just ain't kewl.

It was a PR nightmare. We wasted a small fortune in TV time and newspaper space on "Yay us!" And " Hi, Mom."

They always went to one person who presented well and spoke well and then they went looking for someone the Tea Party wanted to see. Try telling a kid that they only want to make a fool out of him. ;p

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

That wouldn't surprise me. Many misguided people out there. But I don't mind disagreeing, it's the name calling, and threats I think are unproductive.

[-] 2 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

When they are out of arguments they resort to name calling. Obviously.

But as long as they will hold a conversation I am good.

The TP sites finally banned me for asking embarrassing questions. Absolutely no name calling or insults. My friends lasted days. I lasted over a year. But some sites will boot you as soon as you don't do the ditto thing. ;p

[Removed]

[+] -5 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

vq sane? thats laughable.. vq is never right, about anything.

[-] 3 points by DoubleVoice (115) 2 years ago

Your -133 says otherwise.

[+] -4 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

a jr high response "grade" system, not only silly but manipulable.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

republican right wing 1% tool!

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

The guy's possibly a Dem recruiter.

Not what Occupy's all about. Occupy is libertarian progressive, not obamist- thus, it rejects partisan politics.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Vote out right wing pro 1% politicians (dems and repubs), Elect progressives!

You gonna threaten me again?

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

Looks like that divide thing is working pretty well.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Is this another login? You are so versatile, or infantile I'm not sure which applies best. Why do I upset you so? Is it 'cause you know I'm right? Is it that I have smoked you to be a repub plant?

Whoa! Horsey!. Take it easy. I am registered independent. I support a progressive agenda. I acknowledge that the repubs proudly trumpet the right wing policies that the 1% use to exploit the 99%. I know also the Dems betray their progressive principles when they cave in to the right and vote for those same right wing policies. I say vote out all right wing pro 1% pols (dems and repubs), elect progressives. You with me?

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

You must have found a sore spot.

We need a few more of these.

http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Yeah! LOL. He's lost control. It's happened before under countless other logins. I think HE thinks nobody knows. In any event it seems the site mods are onto him now that they know he is threatening people again.

[-] 1 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

The students are forced to take loans as they are forced to go to college-else, no decent jobs!

Problem is, debt is such a heavy load that it is actually up to a student's interest to not go to college and get a lower-wage job but not have to spend half his/her salary on debt payments!

Yes, that's how bad things are.

[-] 1 points by Growup6 (-125) 2 years ago

But you're missing obvious and important things about it. You can affect how MUCH debt by making different choices. Start at community college, for example. You can make many other choices as well that affect your amount of debt.

It's important for students to understand that they also largely control how burdensome the debt will be. That's impacted by WHAT you study. Some courses of study OBVIOUSLY don't mix well with debt. Engineer with $100k in debt vs African Americans "Studies" major with $100k in debt. It shouldn't be hard to know which one will have the bigger problem, but it is for this generation.

[-] -1 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

“WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY… AND HE IS US”. Choose not to borrow, support only low-tuition schools, and be responsible to pay back the money you asked to borrow. Often, it is the simple solution that is most effective.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

Or borrow and don't pay. If no one paid, predatory lenders would be cut off at the knees. The for-profit schools would have to cut their huge profit margins, because no one could get loans to pay them. Tuition would return to manageable levels.

[-] 0 points by Riley2011 (110) from New Britain, CT 2 years ago

Excellent post...we have to change our way of thinking.... As Growup points out below...the best thing to do is to educate the youth who are faced with a huge debt. I went to college back in the 90's- and I have a 175.00 payment for another 5 years... We will end up paying for the defaults because these kids can't afford 900 a month.,... I am with you Growup- there needs to be a formula or something...if a kid can't get a loan for a house or a 10,000 credit card, why are we allowing them to sign papers for a 20K loan? Parents also need to readjust thinking...love does not mean losing everything because you can't afford college.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Yeah blame the victims! We got ours! F%$K 'em if they can't do it. Bankers are warm and cuddly teddy bears who aren't responsible for any problems in our financial system.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by Riley2011 (110) from New Britain, CT 2 years ago

And people keep borrowing...and buying bigger tv's and bigger houses ..what is funny is that after this recession...people are buying again! Malls are doing great! Hell american car dealer sales are up and up..people are trading in old cars and taking those bad banks money...when I have confronted people about their spending habits..and I do love occupy..but folks get pissed..oh we can hate the banks..but pay cash? Budget? Save? Coupons? God forbid...accountability..aah! Banks suck..they are greedy...but why do we keep loving them then?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

The banks crashed the economy and lost 40% of our home value. THEY are being irresponsible. Why don't you complain about that? By blaming the victims you excuse the criminals 1% banks.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

And here you are going to an extreme as usual.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I won't pretend that bankers didn't screw everything up! That is for the ignorant. I won't blame the victim. That is too republican for me. You and I disagree. I'm progressive, and outraged that the 1% screwed us and haven't been made to pay. You seem to be a right wing apologist for these criminals. You advocate for the 1%. I stand with the 99%.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

I'll tell you where I am for the one thousandth time, I cant believe we are still talking about this....

Im not a rightie or a leftie, I dont consider myself part of those idiots.

The markets were flooded with money in Bush's "Ownership Society" nonsense (just more banker scams) of the early 2000's.

Dangling the money in front of people is not a good idea.

But, the people need to be able to slow down with their spending once in a while, and take a look at the big picture.

I transfered schools from upstate NY (always in a dumpy economy) to Tampa, fl in the late 2000's. I could not believe the stupidity of the prices that people were paying for the homes. It was hysterical. It was pure insanity.

Should the banks behave in this manner, knowing how the public is? Absolutely not.

Should the people be smart enough to see a national scam taking place? Yes, they should. Most arent, but they should be.

I put the majority on the banks, they started it. But it takes two to tango, so you have to put some on the other guy.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I will reserve outrage on the entities who came out with all the money.

You agree the banksters pulled a scam? Great me too. They should be prosecuted and punished. Agree? Maybe.

The people you claim were "tangoing" are paying for their involvement! They have lost their homes/life savings! I say lets halt that punishment of the good honest hard working American people. This upsets some people here! You too.?

Lets punish the entities (and the execs in charge) who perpetrated the scam! They lost the home value! Make them pay it back. That is approriate justice.

And if we do that the middle class will recover a little faster, they will consume again and increase demand, then the so called "job creators" will hire like they should be all along. (lets force them to hire Americans)

You got a problem with any of that?. I stand with the good hard working honest American home owner. Do you stand with the 1% banksters?.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Listen. Im not sure what happened to your ability to comprehend what people write, but that fact you are asking me if I stand by the bankers is so far off what I post, we should just stop this conversation right now, because you clearly arent understanding where I am coming from.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Attacking my "ability to comprehend" is offensive, and a sorry attempt at distracting from the substance being discussed. Do we disagree? Or not? Your silence is deafening. Your resorting to childish insults is telling. Just express your honest opinion. No need to attack me. If I don't understand maybe you haven't been clear. Spend less time insulting, and more explaining. That might help.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

go back and re read

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I read enough of your attacks on the victims. You excuse the bankers, by attacking the victims. You ain't kiddin anyone but yourself.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

If that is what you take from it, then we are in more trouble than I thought....

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Why? (I sense another insult comin.)

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

1991: $1350 2012: $5400

In 21 years, the tuition increased by more than 400%

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

The price of tuition is now enormous. I graduated Hunter College in 1995 and paid most of my tuition myself as I went along. I believe that the tuition is now 3 times what it was back then. It is no longer possible to pay as you go. This situation was created by the Government and the bankers working hand in hand.

1991 – $1350 1992 - $1850 1993 - $2,450 1996 - $3200 2003 - $4000 2009 - $4600

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Hunter 2012- $5500. the increase in private colleges is worse. And all of these increases are far above the rate of inflation. That should raise flags! Financial/cost transparency at colleges as mentioned above would help. Something has to be done!

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

Nothing will be done so long as the sheep keep paying. So long as they continue to pay their student loans, they send the message that they can afford to pay them. That said, default rates have doubled since 2005 so perhaps this is what is happening.

Nationally, 8.8 percent of students who were to begin repaying their loans in 2009 defaulted in 2010, the Fed found, a near doubling of the 4.6 percent default rate in 2005. Source: The Bay Citizen (http://s.tt/14L47)

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I suppose I could understand that. The bankruptcy laws should be changed back to the way they were before the right wing tightened them up in the 1990's to help the 1%.

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by Growup6 (-125) 2 years ago

It's funny how the "compassion" crowd never seems to focus on how to avoid trouble in the first place. With education, it shouldn't be this hard. People like me try to call them back from the debt culture they've so completely adopted. But all they can think about it yet more money to throw at something that's not working.

It's time for better decisions. What used to pass for obvious in terms of how to handle debt is utterly lost on today's 20-somethings.

[-] -1 points by Growup6 (-125) 2 years ago

Exactly. They need to have an "Occupy More Sensible Educational Decisions" Campaign.

College students should have the brain power to think about debt BEFORE graduation day. They should also be capable of connecting borrowing to opportunity. Do we need disclosures on Women's Studies majors to warn them that they'll be working at Starbucks? That isn't obvious enough? Is it taxpayers' responsible to pay for it if they don't care? Why?

These nitwits too don't get the joke about why you can't bankrupt yourself out of student loan debt. It's because a previous generation beat them to it. To keep interest rates and government losses under control, that's what they did to fight that obvious scam.

Better decisions before yet more inflation fueling subsidies.

[-] 0 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

The problem here is that people HAVE to take debt to go to college to take a degree if they don't have the money to take a course without debt. That is because they HAVE to take a degree, even in a useless subject, as many good-paying jobs require "a college degree".

This is to blame on employers, who have the superstition that people with degrees are "smarter" than those without. Like one can't be self-educated.

For example, one who has learned computer programming studying alone may end up a better programmer than one who has studied IT in a university. A skills test can show this.

The solution is to force employers to use other methods of screening candidates that asking for degrees. Make it illegal for employers to ask for degrees. Have them use skills tests instead.

We should campaign for this.

[-] -1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

Campaign for what? You want the government to dictate how every employer in the country should select new hires?

As a coincidence, I personally hire computer programmers. And I personally pay zero attention to where they went to school because I'm a lot more interested in what they can do. But the idea of the government forcing me to use certain criteria in hiring people is absolutely ridiculous and will never work. There are, and should be, limits to government reach.

[-] -2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

People get this great sense of government in their head because they have never really had to deal with it on a personal level. The gov pushes its nationalistic garbage since they were born. They almost look up to it like a parent, there to take care of every problem.

Until they get a good chance to see what a disfunctional mess it is, you really cant blame them for thinking any differently, with the amount of contradicting propaganda that goes on every day.

[-] 0 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

Student debt (a corrupt result of collaboration between colleges and banks) should be exposed as such.

There should be more campaigning for laws that prohibit having a college degree as a prerequisite for jobs that don't need one.

How many employers want "a college degree" as job requirement (on ANY subject)? How reasonable is that? How can a degree (even in archaeology) be a prerequisite for a job as a bank employee?

[-] -1 points by Growup6 (-125) 2 years ago

These are college students you're talking about. We should be able to expect them to be adults and to give a shit about how much money they've borrowed before they graduate. It shouldn't be a lot to ask that a college student understand that $100k in debt for a Celtics Studies major might, just might, be a problem.

Businesses are better at determining their needs than are bureaucrats at determining their needs. Further regulating the job market by telling employers if they can look for college graduates is nuts.

[-] -2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

"nitwits"? insults = weak arguments. Blaming the victim is very republican of you. You got some problem with womens studies? Are you suggesting that should not be studied. Are you sexist? misogynist? chauvinist? Lets force banks to forgive the student debt as punishment for destroying 40% of our home value when they crashed the world economy. More Pell grants, and 1% loans. debt forgiveness if you devote 2 years in needy areas of the country.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

Your paranoia is hilarious! Mr Binary strikes again! Anybody who disagrees with you must be a Republican. In fact -- they must be a 1%er! Probably even a banker!

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

And your still calling me names. Like middle schooler! I won't blame the victim! I won't excuse the1% criminals who crashed the world economy.! Those that do should be challenged. I stand with the good hard working middle/working class. Do you stand with the 1% banksters.?

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

Hahaha and you probably weren't even consciously aware of the hilarity of your last question, because you're so deep in it that it seems natural to you to accuse anybody who disagrees with you of "standing with the 1% banksters". OMG that's funny. Thank you for the entertainment.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Keep laughing. Avoiding the question reflects your support for the 1%. You don't support OWS.?

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

What is there to support? OWS has fizzled out.

My daily struggle is against left-handed people from Kentucky. MAN, do I hate those left-handed people from Kentucky. You disagree with me a lot, so you must be a left-handed person from Kentucky! Admit it! You're a left-handed Kentuckian!

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Right handed Brooklyn born and bred! You don't support OWS? Then you support the 1%.? The 1% cannot succeed without 1/2 the 99% (repubs?) advocating for them. Don't betray your own class for the false hope that one day you will be one the 1%. It's a scam. they don't want you to be part of their little group. They just need you to vote 1% interests and against your own!

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

Your need to view the world through an "us versus them" lens is a profound statement on the human condition.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

"Need"? I have a need to face reality! It has been us vs them (class war) through all of human history! You don't see that? I won't pretend the wealthiest 1% don't prey on the middle class. I won't excuse their most recent scam that crashed the world economy. Why do you? Do you really support these criminals who are still livin fat and large and continue to prey on YOUR family?

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

Being an anti-sexist myself, i don't think one that is against taking debt for ANY college course (giving women's studies one as an example, perhaps a poor one) is shown by this to be sexist.

Doesn't take 3 or 4-year degrees to realise women should have equal rights as human beings.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I'm not gonna start second guessing what people take in college. The problem is not the major choice, and it is not that young people take loans. It is that colleges have adopted too many practices of big business, it is that the right wing has cut college grants. It is that banks charge too much interest. Address those issues and let people take what they want. I don't care about majors.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

"it is not that young people take loans."

So the fact that young people have to go into debt and become debt slaves to have a good job is not a problem?

The solution is public education for the best (meritocracy) and no need to have a college degree for a job for the rest. That's how we do it in Cyprus, and there's no student debt problem here.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Free college for all.! An uneducated citizenry is more expensive to society than the cost of paying for college for everyone. It's a necessary investment. Tax business extra to cover the cost. They benefit most from an educated population.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

How does a bank clerk educated in archaeology help the society? Education in irrelevant subjects drains resources.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Maybe the guy educated in archeology can work in..........ready?..... ARCHEOLOGY!

Listen I'm not gonna get lost in the weeds of which major everyone should take. I don't care. I'm more interested in getting the money back that the 1% stole from the middle class for the last 30 years.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

What if already there are enough majored people in society to cover society's needs(leading to the extra having to work in irrelevant jobs)?

As for the banksters, ofc they must pay. That's another issue.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

"thats another issue" That is the issue. in regards to student debt that IS the issue. The bankers have profited from these loans for many years.

I will not get lost in the weeds of what major everyone takes or should take. They should take financial law and go after the 1% criminal bankers that crashed the world economy. LOL Hows 'dat?

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

Unless you think we don't need bank clerks.

As long as there are banks, that is...

[-] -2 points by Growup6 (-125) 2 years ago

Pile of student loans for a theater major = bad decision making.

Yes, I'm sexist. If it wasn't for that, Women's Studies majors wouldn't have to work at Starbucks and financing it large wouldn't be a problem.

More subsidy = more tuition inflation. The problem isn't too little money, the problem is too little good decision making.

You're posts are so ridiculous that it's hard to tell if you're even serious.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

You clearly find it hard to tell what is right and wrong. You stand with the criminals! I stand with the good hard working American homeowners. They could not succeed without half the 99% (repubs!) advocating for them! No wonder they don't have to be responsible, they have you to make excuses for them.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

This fanaticism doesn't help our cause.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

What "cause" do you support.?

Should I pretend the 1% wall st bankers didn't crash the world economy.? Who did? What about the unemployment crises? Is it fanatical to lay the blame for that at their feet? And finally the loss of 40% home value. Their reckless irresponsibility caused that! Perhaps you don't agree. Ok. We don't have to agree. I can call you names. but that is for those with weak arguments. Perhaps your "cause" is to protect the 1% bankers who took our money. In that case you are correct. My comments do not help you. I'm tryin to help the 99%.

[-] 2 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

I am against banks.

I am against all capital and all government and consider myself an anarchist.

But i don't go calling people names and calling them criminals for being misguided. People need education, not scorning. Just like throwing molotov cocktails, throwing names just gives the Right more bricks to throw at us for free We're not like that.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Your callin me names.! Who am I callin names? the 1%? the supporters of the 1%? So you think the 1% bankers were just misguided? WHAAAAT! We disagree. I believe whole heartedly they knew exactly what they were doing. And I believe it was criminal. That is not fanatical. That is reality. Their reckless actions crashed the world economy. You disagree?

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

I'm saying that the 99%ers supporting the right are misguided. The 1% bankers, those ones, YES they are criminals and must pay. But why do you assume banker-supporters here are bankers and not members of our own class?

The supporters of the bankers are like having a disease-called ignorance. They need treatment, not attack.

The banksters, on the other hand, need lengthy jail sentences, if not worse.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

What assumption are you accusing me of? "Banker supporters here are bankers and not members of our own class"? WTF?

Pro 1% supporters will be reminded that the criminal 1% bankers crashed the world economy. Half the 99% (right wingers) support the 1% criminal bankers. They are the ones who make pro 1% commenst. They will be reminded. Is there a problem? You did say 1% bankers need lengthyjail terms. Thats what I'm saying!

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

I'm not against your message, but the way you present it. You don't talk to 99%ers like one talks to an enemy.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I talk to pro 1%'rs who blame the victim, who use constant insults, who continually excuse the 1% criminals and I talk to them with appropriate firmness. You (my judge ) may disapprove but that don't matter to me. I only have to answer to me. Not you. I don't know who you are other than the guy who said the poor bankers were just misguided. You ain't explained that nonsense. But that is your opinion. I look at it as another excuse for the 1%.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by m4trix87 (71) 2 years ago

In order for the republicans' supporters to be traitors, they need to realise they're betraying something. Most of them are just really misguided and think they're doing the right thing. The way to deal with them is through logical arguments, like "why should young people have to take debt?" "they don't choose to go into debt, they're forced into it by not being able to get a job without a degree" etc

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by 99oneofus99 (20) 2 years ago

Even if I was financially literate about college tuition and wound up with no debt, can I protest?

[-] 3 points by nobnot (529) from Kapaa, HI 2 years ago

Only if you promise your parents that you will behave.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Are you calling the students struggling w/ debt financially illiterate?

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

Honestly, he's giving me a forum headache. With his bumper sticker-like rantings. I'm not sure he's human. I think he's a computer that just looks for key words. ie: 'Keystone pipeline' returns : VOTE OUT anti-environmental politicians! SUPPORT the 99%. Or 'protest permits' returns: You must be a Republican on the SIDE of the 1%!!