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We are the 99 percent

Rule of Law vs. the Forces of Order

Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 2, 2011, 7:52 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

we the people

Occupy Wall Street, with its defiant style of non-violent protest, has consistently clashed with the NYPD’s obsession with order maintenance, resulting in hundreds of mostly unnecessary arrests and a significant infringement on the basic rights of free speech and assembly.

Prior to the massive protests at the WTO in Seattle, protest policing in the U.S. was a largely casual affair punctuated with isolated outbursts of police misconduct. After Seattle, police departments embarked on a major rethinking of how to handle increasingly large and militant protests and, most importantly, how to handle the growing use of large coordinated direct actions. Without too much concern for First Amendment rights, police departments have tended to take one of two approaches and sometimes a bit of both.

The first is the strategic repression of direct action movements in particular. Beginning with the Miami police’s aggressive response to the FTAA protests in 2003, many departments resorted to using surveillance, agents provocateurs and negative publicity before an event, followed by massive deployments, “less lethal” weaponry and restriction on protest permits, including the creation of isolated “protest pits.”

Similar problems emerged in 2004, during the Republican National Convention in New York City. Permits were denied to use Central Park and other traditional protest locations; barricades were used extensively at peaceful, permitted demonstrations; and over a thousand people were preemptively arrested, with all the charges eventually dropped by the Manhattan DA.

The other approach has been to attempt to micromanage demonstrations in such a way that dissent becomes a tightly controlled and dispiriting experience. This is accomplished through the use of large numbers of officers, extensive restrictions on access to demonstrations through choke points, penning in and subdividing crowds with barricades, heavily restricting march permits, and making multiple arrests, sometimes using excessive force for minor violations.

This latter strategy is especially common in New York City, which has an almost limitless supply of police officers (upwards of 30,000) to use for controlling crowds. During the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations, we have seen a gross overreaction to peaceful demonstrators engaging in minor violations of the law, such as using a megaphone, writing on the sidewalk with chalk, marching in the street (and across the Brooklyn Bridge), standing in line at a bank to close an account, and occupying a public park past closing hours.

The effect of this has been a low-level criminalization of dissent that serves only a limited legitimate public safety function. The important thing to keep in mind here is that while some protests have been illegal and disruptive, they have been consistently nonviolent in character. This raises the question of whether the tight and expensive control of these demonstrations is an unwarranted interference in people’s right to free expression that exceeds any legal objective.

By Alex S. Vitale
photo: Adrian Kinloch
Originally printed in the Occupied Wall Street Journal



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[-] 13 points by bohratom (22) 12 years ago

I support ows for what it stands for regarding wall street greed. However of l8 it seems that we have become an anti-police movement which does nothing to push our agenda forward. All it does is turn off moderates who support the movement. The police are not our enemy, wallstreet greed is.

[-] 11 points by shizzle08 (119) 12 years ago

I agree! The above is making a very good point. The police are not our enemy and we will lose support for the movement is people start acting like teenagers with a F*$^ the police mentality.

We need to gain police support! Recruit as many officers as possible, make alliances, open dialogue, adopt a cop...... They are the 99% too! Police have a job to do, so we need to make them feel like their job is to uphold the constitution!

[-] 2 points by nic (2) 12 years ago

I agree with ALL of this. People think that the police are such terrible people and we should treat them in a rude manner when all they're trying to do is their job. You know, the thing that everyone's fighting for. I 100% agree with you that they are the 99% too, and like "barb" said, in danger of losing just as much as we are.

[-] 2 points by barb (835) 12 years ago

As much as I am against police brutality you are right in that we need to convince them that they are in danger of losing just as much as we are in the near future.

[-] 1 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 12 years ago

I agree, but I might add, Mayor Bloomberg is our enemy. He manipulates the police.

[-] 1 points by barb (835) 12 years ago

That doesn't surprise me.

[+] -8 points by AnarchoRevolutionary (-14) 12 years ago

We don't need PIG support, we need the power of the PEOPLE. If the Pigs want to shed their fat and join the people, great. But the PIG power structure is not welcome.

Yes, the PIGS are part of the working class in the same way there were Jews who helped the Nazis ... and in that same way they are traitors of the working class.

The people helping to liberation Wall Street are bring the class back to class warfare and that is worthy of attention.

[-] 4 points by therock (30) from Altona, NY 12 years ago

I can't agree with such a hateful us vs. them point of view. No real change can come from such negative energy. In the end, when you tear down the powerful with this negativity, a new negativity takes it's place. It's the tragic cycle of death and destruction of which we have been a part for eons? When will we evolve and break free?

[-] 4 points by shizzle08 (119) 12 years ago

Changing the system from within is more effective than struggling against it and alienating supporters by making it into a street war. Police are not our enemies. They are converts in waiting.

[-] 1 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 12 years ago

Definetly. The police are brainwashed by the system the work for and represent. They need intervention...rational intervention.

[-] 1 points by thelastman (51) from Tyler, TX 12 years ago

I couldn't agree more! This language of resentment and "othering" is completely counter-productive.

Asserting his complete commitment to nonviolence (in a letter to Lord Irwin), Gandhi had this to say:

"I know that in embarking on non-violence I shall be running what might be termed a mad risk. But the victories of truth have never been won without risk, often of the gravest character. Conversion of a nation that has consciously or unconsciously preyed upon another [. . .] is worth any amount of risk. I have deliberately used the word 'conversion.' For my ambition is no less than to convert the British people through non-violence and thus make them see the wrongs they have done."

[-] -3 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 12 years ago

" Police are not our enemies. They are converts in waiting." While we wait we won't mind it if they gas and beat us, huh?

[-] 1 points by shizzle08 (119) 12 years ago

In the past I made some comments advocating violence and I regret that. Our society has conditioned many people to use violence to solve problems. Its the way our government solves problems..... They violently lock people up, beat and gas them, place them in solitary confinement, travel to other countries and attack other regimes, make collateral damage out of innocent people, etc.....

I am a hypocrite and I admit it! I changed my mind. Violence is not the answer our problems. Sure we must be willing to suck some gas and take some blows to the skull in order to assert our rights.

[-] 1 points by wilsondog (8) 12 years ago

Could you elaborate on what you consider your rights to be?

[-] 1 points by shizzle08 (119) 12 years ago

Sorry I don't have time to educate you on the constitution. You could google it if its important to you.

A few of my favorites are: The freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of assembly, the right to bear arms, freedom of petition, and freedom of religion.

I also like the 9th amendment, which declares that the listing of individual rights in the Constitution and Bill of Rights is not meant to be comprehensive; and that the other rights not specifically mentioned are retained by the people.

The fourteenth amendment is also rather refreshing: No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The fourth amendment is also very important.

The police's job downtown at OWS and at other demonstrations across America is to protect and serve and that is all. It is not to harm or bully peacefully protesting individuals. Not to illegally search or seize property in public or private areas without warrants and or probable cause. Nor is it seeking to escalate situations to the point that they warrant use of force, neither is this acceptable behavior for anyone participating in the protest.

OWS demonstrators are not criminals simply because they are protesting. Although criminals may be lurking among the crowds, it is not an officer's job to label the crowd simply because it makes their job more difficult or because they are in a politically charged environment.

I do not want to see Americans beaten and gassed, nor do I want to see police get trampled by angry crowds. People should adhere to the United States Constitution and treat each other with respect.

[-] 1 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 12 years ago

You make a good point. But sooner then later,one of those police officers will lay down his/her weapons and realize they are doing harm to their fellow citizens,family members and friends. It is no doubt,that many of these officers of the law recognize many faces in the #ows crowd. They will get tired of heaping this abuse,knowing that is unjustifiable. Not one of them can sleep without a nightmare after they have abused the many faces in the crowd. It has to get to them...unless they are without conscience!

[-] 1 points by wilsondog (8) 12 years ago

Yeah, like in the movies.

[-] 3 points by 182blink (22) 12 years ago

PIG= Pride, Integrity, Guts.you are the kind of individual that gives any movement a black eye...and you deserve the beating you seek

[-] 1 points by occupyreallife (1) 12 years ago

Mr. AnarchoRevolutionary,

You are the "pig". The last time I checked, being "screwed" by wall street was not even remotely the same as being slaughtered by the thousands at the hands of a heartless dictator.

Your views disgust me. Perhaps if you were to get even a low-paying job instead of sitting at home whining on your computer, you could help your sorry self. But no, you choose to smear hard-working citizens instead.

There is no class in your "warfare", it is merely the squealing of over-indulged and under-grateful pig.

[-] 1 points by hahaha (-41) 12 years ago

You ought to stand in front of a police officer and throw a few 'pigs' his way. I'd love to be there to watch what happens.

[-] 1 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 12 years ago

I bet the OWS protesters that got the shit kicked out of them (deservedly so in my opinion) called the cops pigs. I'd knock your ass down too if you said that to my face.

[-] 0 points by shizzle08 (119) 12 years ago

I have a friend who stockpiles weapons and is always warning me about the coming revolution. He is on the opposite end of the political spectrum from myself.

You just reminded me of him. He says stuff like that all the time.

Do you think police are always doing the right thing? Must be a perfect world.

[-] 0 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 12 years ago

I don't think that they always do the right thing, but I think they do the right thing more than they're given credit.

[-] 1 points by shizzle08 (119) 12 years ago

Its their job to protect and serve. This is a noble job, but some turn it into a power trip. You know how it is when someone does good all the time and then does ONE bad thing. Depending on what they do it may ruin the good reputation that it took so long to build. This is a natural defense mechanism for all animals. You get burned once, but you don't try to get burned twice.

Police are to protect and serve. Although the job is tough and sometimes its difficult to figure how to deal with sometimes potentially life threatening situations, I think they still know right from wrong. Mistakes are forgivable, but deliberately abusing police power is making Americans hate the police.

You can tell what kind of officer one is by spending time with them. We should have an "adopt a cop" program to get people familiar with the police force in America. We could pay them overtime for spending 10-15 hours a month in their "beat" community mingling and talking to people, so the community and officer understand each other better We need to know our police officers and reclaim them as members of this society. They should not be thought of as enemies of society and should not be used as minions to wield control over common people.

Millions of good cops get bad reputations by allowing bad cops wearing uniforms to disgrace the department and the public.

Most police are upstanding individuals who deserve respect. They are accomplished, have high aptitudes, professional, and start out with good intentions. I heard a saying that goes, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." They are only people, therefore they are prone to mistakes like everyone else. The occupation they chose serves to magnify the mistakes they make and send a message of betrayal to the public.

[-] 0 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 12 years ago

I agree with you. Although, you'd think that the logic you use can be turned around.

If a few bad cops can give other good cops a bad name, bad protesters give the rest of you a bad name. And honestly... there are a lot of bad protesters.

The problem with this "movement" is that it's not centralized, and there is no leadership or common goal. The fact that a riot started in Oakland isn't surprising. The people in California are (in my opinion) worthless, and more likely to start a riot over nothing (Rodney King).

One more thought, if you hate cops because one bad cop did one bad thing, then you're a bigot.

[-] 1 points by shizzle08 (119) 12 years ago

I don't hate cops. I just don't like most of the ones I have met. I am not the type to hate all.

[-] 0 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 12 years ago

ya I was using that as more of an in general "you"

[-] 1 points by barb (835) 12 years ago

They are victims as we are in that brainwashing is a powerful tool to get people to do what they normally would not do. This is why so many of our veterans who have been brainwashed to kill have a hard time when they come home to reality again.

Killing other humans is not something that comes natural for us and it has consequences to the mind even if it was deemed necessary.

[-] 1 points by Joyce (375) 12 years ago

fine........let's go.....you want to bait.....we take......now man up....

[-] 4 points by jeffyarboro (6) 12 years ago

having been down there as often as i can, rocking it, and trying to help move things forward, i couldn't agree more. its time to not go the way of cointenpro--we should truly recognize that our strength lies in our peaceful broad-based appeal. the police are with us--often victims of structural violence themselves. those who don't get it yet are just still buying the story. keep pushing truth and the strength of ideas can be used as a weapon.

[-] -2 points by AnarchoRevolutionary (-14) 12 years ago

Yes, they're victims. But they're victims suffering form the Stockholm syndrome. WE don't have time to "help them" work out all their issues. What we can do, is keep raising the bar... Call for general strikes. Taken in the defectors and help them by fixing our world.

You must break some eggs to make an omelet. And for many, an omelet is incomplete with out some deep fried bacon.

[-] 1 points by barb (835) 12 years ago

The motto, "The truth will set you free" is the biggest challenge for all people to strive for since denial of it works to prevent self guilt that is a painful process to go through until you are set free.

People tend to avoid the truth like the plague but it is essential right now that we all face the truth so action can be taken by the masses.

[-] 1 points by jjoplin (25) 12 years ago

So you are calling specifically for violence against the NYPD?

[-] 3 points by CommonPerson (10) 12 years ago

violence against the NYPD is unacceptable.

[-] -2 points by AnarchoRevolutionary (-14) 12 years ago

Unacceptable is an interesting question. What is the "consequence" and how is it "realized"? It seems like petty bourgeoisie statement made out of a "moral" absolutism without foundation.

[-] 4 points by Hello (6) 12 years ago

You have clearly never held a job or actively sought any type of employment. You are most certainly an NYU philosophy major. Your use of language tells me that you spend most of your day "debating ideas" in a classroom or coffee shop and share no real goals with any of the organizers of the Occupy movement. I'm betting that your only real complaint is that "arrogant guy whining in the back of the room" is not something that "society" will give you money for.

[-] 1 points by AnarchoRevolutionary (-14) 12 years ago

I'm not sure what I "call for" make any difference. First, did I not say they too are victims?

While I am part of the movement that believes that "pacifism" as a "value" actually helps the state and the power structure. That "pacifism" is not a persuasive strategy for success... historically and especially not currently, and I prefer the tactics of non-aggression but of Self-Defense.

Do you have an issue with a diversity of opinions and perspectives? My only "positive" wish for the pigs is that they liberate themselves and come to help decolonization Wall St. and the power structure. Outside of that and offering them deprogramming services (which I personally cannot give) I only wish them gone--and in that wish, I'm means independent.

[-] 1 points by jeffyarboro (6) 12 years ago

Fair enough, but you can't possibly think that resisting violently will achieve the ends? Sorry but the state will not hesitate to use violence, when you respond in kind it creates the pretext for a crackdown and delegitimizes the entire movement. So to do this to the broader movement is selfish at best, and smells like state infiltration at the worst. You and what army (the black bloc? lol) are going to use force to change the status quo? Look how hard it was for Libyans to resist their hollow-state despite NATO bombs overhead. You are not going to have that air support. Better to advance decolonization and liberation through the institutions and system. The "long march" as it were…,

[-] 0 points by wilsondog (8) 12 years ago

What happened to you? This is what happens when a whole generation are told they are "special" by their parents who praise every little thing a child does even when they didn't do anything to deserve praise, when trophies are given to every kid on every baseball or soccer team even the team that were in 4th, 5th, 6th place, they have been given what ever they want from cell phones, cars, & the certain label fashions and then they go to universities where they are further brainwashed in left wing ideology. Then, when faced with real life, with adversity and hard situation, they can't cope, they feel entitled. Life is hard and they haven't been prepared. But wait they are "special", they think its only hard for them, when its hard for everyone. ( how about the seniors who lost all their savings/pension, or those in mid-life who are still raising families who have lost their homes and jobs)

Their whole life they have been been handed things without having to work for them and instead of doing something constructive to try to help the country, instead of WORKing to change the government, and do what ever it takes- even if it takes a job that pays less then the 75 to 100k , they spend a month protesting.

You are protesting in the wrong place, against the wrong people, and against the wrong economic system. Yeah, Wall Street is partly to blame But, bailing out the banks wasn't capitalism- if it was left to capitalism the banks would have been allowed to fail. You should be protesting, congress, and the senate, and Obama.

What do you think is going to happen if riots start breaking out? are you really so naive to think that that is going to help your cause? There are a lot of problems in America and lots of things that need to be fixed, but there are also a lot of things right with America? You want to resort to violence for what? for a European like system? or South America? Cuba? Have you traveled and seen other countries? Do you understand that redistribution of wealth doesn't work?

America is in big trouble and we should be coming together- not pitting American's against each other. As far as I am concern ows protesters are just like Congress. If this is America's furture- God help you all.

[-] 1 points by shizzle08 (119) 12 years ago

NYPD has enough direct violence against them throughout the city on an everyday basis. OWS is obviously not about violence. Police are probably happy to be policing the demonstrations instead of being on the beat in more dangerous parts of town.

NYPD uses violence against Non-violent protestors! Its not the other way around.

[-] 0 points by AnimalFarm (31) 12 years ago

"Anyone Can Make An Omelet With Eggs. The Trick Is To Make One With None." Minus the physical problem with this quote, it's message is still one to consider.

[-] -3 points by Michiganmillions (0) 12 years ago

Couldn't agree more with you, I think you guys need to get some NY gangs involved, they can take care of the pigs for you. You need to get someone dying in front of a camera to show all of the rest of the 99% what is going to happen to them if they don't support your new order. Those who have power always win. You don't need their hearts and minds, you need their bodies!!!

[-] 2 points by hmmm (52) 12 years ago

Get out.

[-] 0 points by sculptorator99 (0) 12 years ago

Ghandi and company booted the British out of their country without violence. This is the only viable strategy when faced with the potential for overwhelming power. Stay the course, and we will win. The only problem that I can see is that the movement will end, and people will go home with just a few concessions offered. I hope not! Look what happened in Egypt. They celebrated way to soon, and they went home. In most ways that are significant nothing changed, Mubarek was just a figure head. Now they need to go back to the streets to really change things, but it's much harder to go back to the streets once you went home. We should go all the way this time. We need to get the money out of politics in the very least. This is not going to be easy by any measurement.

[-] 3 points by tsdevi (307) 12 years ago

On the contrary, the police are the protectors of the status quo and are therefore the first obstacle. Unless they stop choosing to arrest people, they are acting as adversaries. Don't fool yourself, while there are good cops, there plenty of power hungry mindless ones. This is the police force that housed officers who watched an innocent man be sodomized with a broom stick for hours by one of their fellow police officers. The man had to get reconstructive surgery done on his bowels...he won his law suit but no amount of money can justify such behavior. For those whose sympathies lie with the cops, that is their choice. Cops are the same ones who will forcibly take people from their foreclosed homes. This is not a popularity contest, it is about the hearts and minds of people realizing what is good for everyone. Have you watched the cops and security guards arresting the woman who showed up at Citibank to withdraw her money? It is an alarming display. That is what people should be shocked by, not peaceful protests that aim to admit that our economic system is not working for the majority of the people. Is this the fault of the cops? NO, but they seem to be abiding by the status quo that needs to be upset.

[-] 1 points by Michiganmillions (0) 12 years ago

They are also the same ones who went into the Towers as planes plowed into them. The same ones who bring children home safe and defend our homes when people try to break in. The first ones who come to a call for help, who when they go to work, know that they might not come back. How many of our jobs come with a clause that you might not come home to your family each shift. If you don't have laws that are enforced, you have anarchary. If you don't like the laws, then you elect people to change them, not demonize the people who uphold those laws.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 12 years ago

There is no argument that there are good police officers, just like there are good people in all professions. Would you are argue with the contention that police and employed to uphold the laws of the status quo? No, because this is a simple fact. Everyone who leaves their home might not come back alive. Simply because you behave decently and respectfully, as Swiss Miss says, does not excuse poor behavior. While some police officers may bring children home safely, as many a good Samaritan would, others are found to rape women, as was the unfortunate case in Westminister, Co. Two cops raped a woman in my friends neighborhood...does it make it okay because its a cop? No, it makes it extra egregious. Insofar as changing the laws...BACK IN 2008 WHEN THE HOUSING BUBBLE BURSTED AND THE DECISION TO OFFER TARP MONEY WAS VOTED ON IN CONGRESS, CONGRESS, AT THE BEHEST OF CONSTITUENTS VOTED AGAINST THE MEASURE TO OFFER A BAILOUT...AND THE BANKS GOT IT ANYWAY!!!!!!! Women did not wait for the laws to change to garner the right to vote, they marched in the streets. Grassroots is where all good changes happen, not top down. Do not let us forget it.

[-] 1 points by RogerT (36) 12 years ago

"--- they might not come back." Actually it is more dangerous to drive a cab in NY than to be a police officer.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 12 years ago

The good things they do DON'T give them a free ticket to abuse their power and authority to brutalize people for no reason. Abusing power and authority IS NOT upholding laws.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 12 years ago


[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 12 years ago

I agree, and that it's naive to think otherwise.

[-] 2 points by RogerT (36) 12 years ago

The point is not that the police are the "enemy"-- the police work for the state and the state is controlled by the 1%. The NYPD takes its orders from billioniare Bloomberg. It is politicians who represent the 1% who dictate to the police what they are to do. Living in such a culture many police have adapted to it and think they really protect the citizens (they do from petty crime and crimes of personal violence-- but political crimes [free speech against the 1%] they don't protect unless the 1% say so). The article just points out how in recent years the political decision was made that democracy was getting out of hand and the police should be beefed up in case the people get out of control and want to do something unthinkable-- such as take over Wall Street.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 12 years ago


[-] 1 points by Michiganmillions (0) 12 years ago

I thought the 99% voted for Pres. Obama, he is not for the 1%, he is for us and has done alot to get the 1 % back to their place! Most politicians would love to get back at them, what is wrong with changing our political system the way we have with our educational system--from the inside out. We already have a Pres., 1 house, and the judges on our side. I can wait for my reward....can you?

[-] 1 points by RogerT (36) 12 years ago

Obama is walking both sides of the street. But individuals are not the issue. A fundamental change in the economic system way from profits at any cost towards the needs of people is what is needed. The system of Capitalism as it is consituted today can not provide for the needs of people when profits are at risk. The president of the US-- whoever he is-- serves the interests of the dominant economic system controlled by the 1%-- some more blantently than others. Obama is no exception--he is a 1%er-- but there is some wiggle room with him because millions of working people still think that the Democratic Party has their real interests at heart and so they must be occasionally thrown a bone. Until political consciousness of the 99% becomes mature enought to break with the two capitalist parties and establish a people's party dedicated to economic democracy we will always be faced with the lesser of two evils at election time-- but that means we always only have an evil choice. What is to be done?

[-] 1 points by Middleclassdawg (2) 12 years ago

I believe RogerT hit the nail on the head: "A fundamental change in the economic system way from profits at any cost towards the needs of people is what is needed." I don't think it's the idea that making a profit is evil, but rather, how one goes about doing this. I'm all for making a buck, but should a 30-something guy have to work 2 jobs and his wife work as well just to "get by?" How about a "living wage?" How about the 1%ers sharing a piece of the pie that they obtained walking over the backs of us 99%? I'm not talking about widespread "redistribution of wealth," but come on here...in one of the richest countries in the world to have 10, 20 or 30 million Americans without basic healthcare coverage is obscene! I know I'm rambling here but fair is fair. How about we level the playing field a bit more? How about we stop giving multi-million bonuses to CEO's who lay off 5 or 10,000 employess and then we reward this CEO with a bonus? He should get an ass-kickin' if you ask me.

[-] 0 points by NewWorldNow (83) 12 years ago

The Obama administration is infested with crony capitalism. They are part of the problem.

[-] 1 points by Redmist (212) from Yazd, Yazd 12 years ago

Great comment! That is sure what pushed my support out the door.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 12 years ago

Is it wrong to point out when the police are abusing their power and authority by beating and gassing people, etc.? If we just sit back and take it and not mention all the brutality that is happening, then we are just as much part of the problem.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 12 years ago

This article is not anti-police,. it is talking about the trends in police actions,. stuff that comes down from the top,. not the front-line officers.

[-] 1 points by rema (-7) 12 years ago

corruption and abuse of power is our enemy.... and do not be fooled into believing that it always shows up in a suit and tie.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 12 years ago


[-] 1 points by rohjo (92) 12 years ago

And so the narrative runs ...

Media, including "progressive" media and cyberspace, like to tell the story, and measure social movements, with arrest meters.

In the photo, note the International Action Center black-and-yellow signs held by the vanguard. The police let them pass and a flow of the crowd followed them. Most in this flow were unaware that they were prime for arrest. Police then corralled and arrested 700 protesters, including children, in the much-touted "largest mass arrest in U.S. history."

Pay close attention to self-imposed police confrontations, and arrest games, played out across the country by splinter groups in the large crowds, and by social-justice celebrities at various opportunities.

Discord divides. Demanding First Amendment rights with the strength of peace ("peaceable assembly") serves to include rank-and-file police, average bankers, and most workers in a corporate society. What's 99% of 312 million? 308,880,000. Peace is Power.

Don't follow self-appointed leaders who want your arrest to aggrandize their agendas. This time is unique. It is not Seattle, Miami, Chicago '68 or the NYC Republican National Convention. It speaks to a new set of developing circumstances and a different national mood. The Occupy Wall Street approach is beginning to mushroom across America.

Anyone who seeks real change should take time to consider some caveats from Canadian economist, Michel Chossudovsky. (While Chomsky is the guru of "manufacturing consent," Chossudovsky may well be the guru of "manufacturing dissent.")


background: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=27053

Coffee with Chossudovsky is a fairly short YouTube experience. His written article is long but fascinating. He presents a worldwide history of social movements, including the Battle in Seattle, and a forecast that can be shortened to two potential scenarios.

The Dark Side: Violent confrontations with police become pretext for martial law; or nonviolent resistance becomes co-opted to a fizzle.

The Bright Side: The popularity and power of the simple message of Occupy Wall Street can't be contained.

Life approaches a tipping point on the planet. What never worked will never work. Change without peace is no change at all.

A thunderstorm comes and goes. A gentle mist spreads and lingers.

[-] 1 points by thelastman (51) from Tyler, TX 12 years ago

Despite sounding something like the staccato ramblings of a Bonner's soap label, this was probably the most entertaining post I've read on here. :)

[-] 1 points by rohjo (92) 12 years ago

I used to shampoo my head with Dr. Bronner's Peppermint when I was your age, LOL, and spent some time on land near the Rose Capital. It's a conspiracy, I tell you.

[-] 1 points by thelastman (51) from Tyler, TX 12 years ago

I love that stuff. Between that and a good hot cup a'joe I am always wide awake for my 8 am class!

After actually checking out the links above, I retract any implication of conspiratorial content in your post. Looks like pretty solid Globalization stuff. I had an old room mate and dear friend who was always on about chem-trails, mind control, & U.N. concentration camps so I am perhaps a bit over sensitive.

As for having spent time in East Texas, having myself moved here about 8 years ago from the real "City of Roses" (Portland, OR), all I can say is sorry! ;)

[-] 1 points by Joyce (375) 12 years ago

Always dismissed............

[-] 1 points by CommonPerson (10) 12 years ago

Totally agree. Focus!

[-] 1 points by ungr8ful (70) from Benicia, CA 12 years ago

Well it seems the reason might be that the financial situation was not really the true agenda just a spring board for a lot of other crap Kind of reminds me just how tarp money was used to blanket a whole bunch of other useless crap programs .People love to use other people to push their personal agendas, sad thing is a lot of these people will never figure this out. Especially that blockhead(blocade) dude.

[-] 0 points by Restorefreedomtoall1776 (272) from Bayonne, NJ 12 years ago

You fail to realize that the Banksters on Wall Street have bought and paid for the loyalty of the NYPD with millions of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ donated to the various funds of the NYPD. The NYPD has become the private armed militia of the 1%. dedicated to the destruction of the liberty and Constitutuional rights of the 99%. I ask all of the 99%, what is to be done? Must we stand idly by while our Constutional rights are shredded before our eyes?

[-] 1 points by jdnreha (85) 12 years ago

really, who backed Obama? It wouldnt be citigroup($736,771)? Chase($808,799)? naw... he's for us.... Know your facts, Banksters on Wall Street have bought and paid for the loyalty of Obama, (but they buy every president) Your Representatives, your Senators, and most local level government officials... Thats why OWS confuse me, Its not corporate greed, its the government which allows it. We should be occupying white house, congress... but no, we occupy a location in witch companies are traded... traded... Its like getting mad at a guy buying gas instead of big oil companies, or the government for not putting price caps and telling them they cant charge that price... I say we start Occupy White House, and make the government better... but thats not as fun as blaming the 1% now is it. Or a better Idea, run for office... make a real change. ( and the perk is that after 2 years, you will get FULL retirement, complements of the tax payers)

[-] 1 points by Middleclassdawg (2) 12 years ago

jdnreha makes a very good point ....this corporate greed can only succeed in a political climate which protects and promotes it. I think in many ways it's easier to point out the banker wearing that $1,000 suit vs. the politician who gets health insurance for life and all those other perks. Maybe the White House should be the next Occupy venue??

[-] 1 points by jdnreha (85) 12 years ago

I think It should be too. Every city / state / federal government is taking the wait and see approach. They have no interest in helping the people out. Obama, my state reps, and the other law makers of this country are working because of us. They come out every now and then, and say good job America. But we elected them to do this for us. They should not take the wait and see approach, but better yet, take the we were elected by our people, therefore we will stand by our people approach. I think there the 1%. We pay for there salary, we pay for there health care, we pay for there retirement check, we pay for them and don't have a choice. And they wont come down to protest against "wall street" like there paid to do. Instead they allow "wall street" to do what they want and reap the benefits.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 12 years ago


[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 12 years ago

Yes, but the money is not likely going to the police's salaries, or is it? Once we all are deprogrammed from playing our limited roles in society we will be freer to treat each other with dignity.

[-] 0 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 12 years ago

No, we must not just stand by. I'm so sick of people taking this to the extreme and saying the movement is anti-police. There is NOTHING wrong with calling out the police when they are abusing their power and authority, and sitting on our asses and not doing so makes us just as much part of the problem!!!!

[-] -1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 12 years ago

I suppose the OWS protesters are going to pitch in to repair the broken windows, or was that all part of the forces of order?

[-] 1 points by shizzle08 (119) 12 years ago

I would not be surprised if someone from uptown paid some guys to break a few windows to make people think it was the protesters.

If protesters are destroying property we need to do something to stop them. The malicious actions of a few could be a flashpoint in the eyes of the public.


[-] 2 points by shizzle08 (119) 12 years ago

I agree with you that the vandals should be arrested! It does not take a genius to realize that we do not need vandals in the ranks representing OWS!

We need to distance the movement from people like these. The actions of a few do not represent the message of OWS.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 12 years ago

This is what happened in Seattle in 1999, if you recall the vandalism that happened there during the demonstrations. Those who commit acts of vandalism must be accountable for their actions. The demonstration and the movement are not the cause. It is not too far fetched that people would be employed to cause damage and malign the movement therefore.


[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 12 years ago

Prove that they are responsible, then levy the charges.

[-] 0 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 12 years ago

Good job man. I guess what they say is true.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 12 years ago

What makes you assume that a police presence is necessary at a demonstration? Where is the proof that it was demonstrators who did vandalize the businesses?

[-] 1 points by jjoplin (25) 12 years ago

Exactly. And it is bothering anyone that the camps are getting a little rape-y??

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 12 years ago

"A little rapey?" Is that supposed to be cute? What do you mean exactly? Please explain in detail.

[-] 1 points by jjoplin (25) 12 years ago

You are right, it was the wrong way to ask the question and you are right to call me on it. I have been extremely concerned about the number of instances where sexual assault or rape have been alleged. I have seen these reports way out on the edges in blogs and rarely a mention in big media and never, ever on this site. But today the arrest at Zuccotti made all the news. So its out there and can be addressed. I made my snarky comment after reading many comments here about how the police are the bad guys and who needs them and all of that. The police help us keep law and order in a civilzed society and i think they are being mis-treated. They are in an impossible situation - either they try to control crowds to prevent mayhem/chaos and get accused of being overbearing - or - they may not be ready some time and some really big shit could go down where people and or property are risk and they will be blamed. I do not appreciate the tone of the protests with everyone screaming at the cops all the time while saying we are peaceful? Cops are working class guys and when people shout, "Who are you protecting! Who are you protecting!"

The answer is, all of us.

[-] 1 points by shizzle08 (119) 12 years ago

guys or girls?

[-] 0 points by Michiganmillions (0) 12 years ago

No, they have their own justice in these camps. Just goes to show you when you "live" like an animal you "behave" like an animal!

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 12 years ago

I wonder why people who are not supportive of the movement bother to weigh in? What do you have to contribute other than your prejudice? Rape is a serious crime that most often goes unreported because a person is typically raped by someone they know. Not to mention how rape is surely happening outside the encampments. Why do you look down your nose at people living in camps? What makes you believe in your intrinsic superiority?

[-] 1 points by jdnreha (85) 12 years ago

Look, I do support the issue, but dont. Its the wrong way to go about this. The longer there is no defined what we want, the more chaos there will be. Were all pissed, and directing it to the wrong people. And yes rape is serious..

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 12 years ago

This is not simply about anger, it is about recognizing the imperative that a new social order needs to be heralded in, one that is inclusive, truly democratic, and economically equitable. You do not seem to have a point. I read of one man taken away from Liberty Park after having been accused of rape and attempted rape by two women. He was taken away from the park by the police after having been told he is not welcome. Your jocular reference to the issue of rape failed to offer the facts. If you don't support the effort, fine, do your own thing.

[-] 1 points by jdnreha (85) 12 years ago

truly democratic? we are a republic.... I never understood why people talk about spread democracy??? If you doubt me, re-read the Pledge of Allegiance or, look at a world map. As far as economically equitable, do you think a hard working miner deserves the same pay as a McDonald clerk? or what if, and man this is a what if, a family of four like mine, would want only one person to work while my wife takes care of the kids and makes sure they excell at school? And why should a successful hard working individual be punished? is that your idea of a new social order? what type of social order do you want? a new one like what? one where every man and woman must work, even if they don't want to?

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 12 years ago

Ah, yes, because the Pledge of Allegiance is the prime historical reference.

[-] 1 points by jdnreha (85) 12 years ago

Did you check the world map? Did it say the Republic of United States of America? How about the Constitution? And were not talking about historical reference here. You really have proved your ignorance now. You will sit and complain about the government, but don't know the difference between Democracy and Republic forms of government. You sit there believing that were a Democracy, (both parties have you believe that, so this isn't about party lines.). Were you not awake in government class? Take 5 seconds, and do some research of your own.. you will find all of this bs. dont learn from the man(the man is not just the government) to become a sheep, learn for your self.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 12 years ago

Five seconds, huh? Good for you!

[-] -1 points by AnarchoRevolutionary (-14) 12 years ago

No, the idea that the police are not our enemy is the problem.

Actually, it is the CLEAR FACT that the police our the enemy of the people and a tool of the power structure that has prevented more people of colour from embracing the movement.

Remember, there were Jewish people who helped "keep the peace" and herd their fellow Jews into the Ghettos. Just like those "keepers" our "keepers" are on the wrong side of this class war. And, from me, they will get NO mercy.

[-] 1 points by jdnreha (85) 12 years ago

You have issues

[-] 1 points by CommonPerson (10) 12 years ago

Are you in Zuccoti park right now A of R?

[-] 0 points by AnarchoRevolutionary (-14) 12 years ago

I'm not there now. Thank you for asking Common Person. I was there for the pig brutality on Oct 10th I believe it was, when we marched across the Brooklyn Bridge. Why do you ask? Do you think if the "where" of my "amness" changes the "wisdom" or "truth" of my propositional statement?

[-] -1 points by ronjj (-241) 12 years ago

WAKE UP bohratom.

Your leadership now has leadership. Look at the post AnarchoRevolutionary above. This will be your new leader. You have about two weeks to get out and after that you will be part of them. For some of you, it is already too late - just pack up your tent with the intent to leave and see what happens. You may find that you have lost one of the greatest rights that we have - the right of person-movement. Anyone can open their mouth - when you have lost your right of movement, you ARE a prisoner.

[-] 4 points by Finance (11) 12 years ago

To protest the behavior of big banks, thousands have pledged to switch to small credit unions on November 5. Follow these steps to simplify the process. http://www.yesmagazine.org/new-economy/a-field-guide-to-closing-your-bank-account

[-] 2 points by ungr8ful (70) from Benicia, CA 12 years ago

Way ahead of you like by ten years, but thanks

[-] -1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 12 years ago

No doubt Millions bailed the minute they announced a 5$ check fee, but that wont stop the flea party from taking credit.

[-] 3 points by sqrltyler (207) 12 years ago

It's not about "taking credit". This is a non partisan, all inclusive movement. The Dem/Rep paradigm is a lie. We are uniting as Americans.

[-] -1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 12 years ago

I didn't say anything about Dem/Rep. I pointed out that customers leave banks that charge outrageous fees. I pointed out that OWS taking credit for the fee reversal is like OWS taking credit for the sun rising.

Oh, and don't give me this crap about us "Uniting as Americans". This movement was created in, and is operated from a bunch of Anarchists and Marxists from Canada. I can be as pissed off about how my elected officials are failing me as I want, but I will NEVER get out in the streets and march at the behest of a bunch of foreign nationals who have their heads up their ass, but to each his own.

good on ya.

[-] 3 points by sqrltyler (207) 12 years ago

By calling your fellow Americans, "The Flea Party", you clearly still believe in the Dem/Rep lie.

The language you are using is straight out of the Fox playbook.

This could explain why you are so angered by Americans uniting across our country, refusing to accept the status quo.

Instead of name calling, how about you add something to the conversation, like how would you help to solve our country's economic and political problems?

[-] 0 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 12 years ago

Actually, I got the name from this forum. It represents all the up votes socialist and marxist ideas get on this forum. It represents the anarchist ideals of the movement's foreign leaders. It is you who are trying to divert this conversation into something about Democrats and Republicans. Once you get past foreign and domestic, perhaps we can have a talk about the Republicans, Democrats, Tea Party, Green Party, Libertarians, or any other group, you care to rant on about.

[-] 1 points by sqrltyler (207) 12 years ago

I'm trying to divert the conversation into something positive. I still haven't heard a word from you as to how you would help solve our country's economic, and political problems...

[-] 0 points by Michiganmillions (0) 12 years ago

I have a plan. Cut the size of government in half, do away with the EPA, Dept. of Education, and have the elected officials "work from home" instead of being in DC. Arrest and bring to trial all of the politicians who have broken laws and made our county/economy what it is today. Most people on here are focused on "big" whatever but "big government" never comes up. I haven't seen anyone talking about the government's part in the bailouts. I am a Capitalist, and proud to be one!!!! When the government interfers with business and "bails" them out, you don't have capitalism anymore. Get rid of big bloated powerful government and return to what the Constitutions says!!!!! Try reading some history books on socialism, marxism, communism and see how they have worked for millions of people around the globe. True capitalism can not be beat!

[-] 1 points by Faithntruth (997) 12 years ago

True capitalism cannot be sustained, as there are finite resources, as well as the negative aspects of human nature. Regulation is required, whether to keep people from driving 100 mph through your neighborhood where your kids are playing, make beating your grandmother a crime, or to keep industrialists from poisoning the water. Laws and regulations are created in response to real events, not just to make life harder for the folks who put profit ahead of all else.

[-] 1 points by sqrltyler (207) 12 years ago

So in your version of America, oil and chemical companies could pollute at will. Water would become more expensive than gas, and huge regions of our country would become uninhabitable. Air would also become a precious commodity, creating a society where only the privileged could afford to be healthy.

How's that going to work out for the future of our country? One of America's greatest resources is the fertility of our land, giving us an opportunity for sustainability. Don't you want to protect our nations resources for future generations? Do you understand the motivations of the people who are telling you that eliminating the EPA is a good idea?

Billionaire oil barons the Koch brothers spent tens of millions influencing the 2010 elections. They run the Tea Party engine "Americans for Prosperity". Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal is the second majority shareholder of Fox News. K street lobbyist Dick Armey runs Tea Party engine "Freedom Works", and his clients include Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Prime Minister of the UAE.

Do you now understand why these oil barons would want to eliminate The EPA? These people do not care about the future of our country. They only care about themselves. Don't think for a second the Democrats are any better. The two party system is just theater. We have a farce of democracy.

We do not live in a capitalist society. We have become a plutocracy, where the game is rigged to benefit an extremely small percentage of our country. We once enforced antitrust laws, to break up monopolies, ensuring fair competition. Now the monopolies dictate policy, and run the show. This is crony capitalism at it's finest.

Capitalism only works when regulated, otherwise the very nature of the system is to eat itself. Without a representative government, you end up where we are, and where we're going...


[-] 1 points by sqrltyler (207) 12 years ago

I never wanted to discuss Democrats and Republicans.There is no difference between them in actual policy. The reasons people are leaving the big banks are irrelevant, it's just good that they are. Credit unions offer better value, and are cooperatively owned.

I'm encouraging speech, by asking you to join the dialogue. You have taken your time to post here, so I'm interested in your ideas to help solve our nation's problems.

[-] 1 points by Michiganmillions (0) 12 years ago

BoA not charging a fee is a result of Capitalism. "The people" let them know that if the fee was charged, they would leave and take their business elsewhere. BoA responded the way they did because they would lose money. Don't forget that the fee was passed on to the customer because the Government added taxes to the business.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 12 years ago

"Don't forget that the fee was passed on to the customer because the Government added taxes to the business." Whatever. Yeah, just like how the airline industry in the U.S. (except for Southwest Airlines) starting gouging customers back when the gas went up during Bush's reign by charging for checking in baggage, for sitting in certain seats, for this and for that.... and when the gas prices dropped back down, the airlines kept their fees. It's all an excuse to gouge customers more, so that these businesses can further pad their bottom lines. This is what capitalism is all about.... screwing people any way you can.

And most airlines in the U.S. stopped providing in-flight meals for domestic destinations a long time ago.... another way to add to their bottom lines. The biggest corporations just get greedier and greedier.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 12 years ago

And THE PEOPLE responded in protest, whether it was via OccupyWallSt, OccupyOakland, OccupyDetroit, via online petitions, etc. How do you think BoA got the message that people were pissed that they were going to start charging those fees? They didn't learn it by people sitting on their asses and doing nothing.


[-] -1 points by raines (699) 12 years ago

No, you're devisive.

[-] 1 points by sqrltyler (207) 12 years ago

Please explain why you feel that way raines...

[-] -2 points by raines (699) 12 years ago

I agree with MikeyD. The group that is handling your $500,000 is doing so for a 7% fee and is giving you it's tax exempt status. And the money is in a bank,....a big greedy bank.

[-] 2 points by aaronparr (597) 12 years ago

A big greedy bank handling the NYC GA's money? That is laughable hyperbole. Do some research.

[-] 2 points by shizzle08 (119) 12 years ago

I guess it costs money to hire a money manager. Its the nature of the animal were dealing with.

OWS may not be responsible for the fee reversal of the banks, but they can be an effective force in mobilizing action on a large scale. The masses, for the most part, have no methods to combat being taken advantage of. Action by a single person means nothing, but the same action carried out by millions simultaneously will have a tremendous effect.

Winning the hearts of Americans will only strengthen the movement and have a rippling effect throughout society.

Just a joke here: We could sure use some Libyan support here.

[-] 0 points by raines (699) 12 years ago

You aren't winning the hearts of Americnas, you're repulsing them.

[-] 3 points by mserfas (652) from Ashland, PA 12 years ago

While the police across the country are busy jailing people for drawing in sidewalk chalk or kneeling in the wrong place, many state attorneys general and the federal government are about to forgive and forget all the forged documents, robo-signatures and other fraud involved in home foreclosures - in exchange for $3 to $5.5 billion. Naturally no one is talking about jail time - the people evicted wrongly after September 2008 (even according to the existing rules of the system) get $1500. See http://pol.moveon.org/badagdeal/ and http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/business/a-foreclosure-settlement-that-wouldnt-sting.html?_r=1 .

The police need to understand that they are being humiliated here. They are being sent out on fools' errands while the whole country is looted for its most prized possessions. I don't know how they can bear it.

P.S. kudos to the New York Attorney General for being one of a few to walk out of the proposed agreement saying it would be a giveaway to the banks.

[-] 3 points by nucleus (3291) 12 years ago

The rule of law is consistently ignored or purchased, depending on who is applying it and why. This is yet another reason to abandon the corrupt system of indentured economic servitude and inhumane abuse that has been foisted on us all.

[-] 3 points by Toynbee (656) from Savannah, GA 12 years ago

The powers that be seem to be saying it is OK to petition for the redress of your grievances by sending them an email. But large mass organizations have no place, and the "disorderly" individuals will be dealt with -- meaning we'll sick the bulls on you.

Sheer hypocrisy: One the one hand, the establishment applauds citizen uprisings against oppressive Middle East regimes -- mostly oil producing nations like Libya -- but they want no part of them when they involve disgruntled and angry U.S. Citizens!

[-] 2 points by mw70 (2) from Brooklyn, NY 12 years ago

As an archivist and activist I totally appreciate that you would have some activist history as part of the newspaper -- but, I need to correct what you have written -- Prior to the WTO protests there were plenty of examples of conscious and planned policing of large protests -- police department and the FBI have used surveillance, agents provocateurs and negative pre-event publicity for many, many, many years -- in f act, for large parts of the 20th century -- if not before One major part of this history was COINTELPRO (Counter Intelligence Program) which was a series of a covert and often illegal projects conducted by the FBI between 1956 and 1971, though the FBI has used these types of operations against domestic political groups since its inception. They were aimed at surveilling, infiltrating, discrediting, and disrupting domestic political organizations. COINTELPRO tactics included discrediting targets through psychological warfare, planting false reports in the media, smearing through forged letters, harassment, wrongful imprisonment, extra legal action , etc. The Civil Rights movement and the Anti-Vietnam war movements experienced all of this. . [And,here are some examples from the 1980s and 1990s: in Atlanta, in 1988 at the Democratic Convention,the city created a "free speech space" limiting where actions could occur -- of course, ACT UP (The AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power) did not pay any attention to it and we were marched on by the Atlanta riot police--in NY, David Dinkin's administration burned the homeless people out of Tompkin's Square park, sending in riot troops, etc.; The United in AIDS Action Rally in times square in 1992 (also under Dinkins) used a series of blockade pens for the 25,000 people who showed up even though it was a permitted demonstration; The Irish Lesbian and Gay Organization protests in the early 1990s as well as the ACT UP demonstrations had well over 200 people arrested and there was lots of excessive force; in one action the women arrested were strip-searched. I could go on ...

It is really important that we know how long term and imbedded these types of policies and actions are in the way our government - on both a local and national level - has dealt with non-violent protest. There is no justification for them and we have to keep on protesting as we see fit despite them.

In support

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 12 years ago

Hi, I just lost my earlier comment, so I'll make this brief. Also, by any chance are your initials DT?

Thanks so much for describing in such great detail the reasons the Socialist Workers Party, which I belonged to at the time, launched its successful CONTELPRO suit in the early 1970's.

And Marxism has always stated that the state consists of bodies of armed men, and the whole state apparatus (including the police and army) has to be smashed in order for a revolution to succeed. Tragic examples where this was not done include the Paris Commune of 1871 and Chile in 1973.

Thanks for your valuable comments!

[-] 2 points by kmb117 (2) from Regina, SK 12 years ago

Does anyone know WHY police tactics have changed? Because it takes media focus AWAY from the reason people are demonstrating in the first place. No matter how legitimate the grievances are, discussing police violence is detrimental to the issue at hand. The elite, the 1%, they would much rather have the public focus on police brutality so they don't have to change. DO NOT let them get away with this. Stay focused, stay strong, and do not get bogged down by side issues such as this.

[-] 1 points by aaronparr (597) 12 years ago

It does not matter. All of this interaction with the police will eventually force them to change policy. Some police departments will rebel against orders from higher up. There is already a standard set by "sanctuary cities" to do this. It will continue as local governments and agencies realize that they will benefit more by siding with the revolution than by being the tools of those that wish to thwart it.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 12 years ago


[-] 2 points by Dumorian (2) 12 years ago

End 'Hood Robin'! Yes, a play on words... Robin Hood stole from the rich and gave to the poor. Hood Robin has been stealing from the poor and giving to the rich. I have contemplated this for a long time. When I saw the beginning of Arab Spring, I realized there was a tool to do this in this country... When mentioning some of my ideas online ideas to friends, one in particular said "You'll be dead in a month!" Unfortunately, that was all too believable. Meanwhile, 'Hood Robin' or what could be called 'redistribution of wealth'. We hear that all the time, but everyone 'assumes' this is money from the rich to the poor, while in actuality, it is flowing heavily in the other direction.

Why? OWS has hit the nail on the head. The reasons are so disperse that no single thing can be deemed the OWS 'cause'. The issues are extremely complex. I see several as main issues. What Oakland did today was phenomenal and I compliment the attendees. However, I believe we need a national plan of action. Tens of thousands are attending events, most like millions are supporters of the movement. Give us something to do that can be done at home.

My main concern with fixing this country is fixing the legal system that allows the action of big banks and corporations. I carefully listen to politicians and heard loud support for the 'Arab Spring'. But, only a handful are supporting OWS. I could not believe our President did not immediately stand up and fully applaud the movement. Then I started listening for other politicians to support the movement. There have been very few. This led me to asking "Why?"

Money. In the last 10 years or so I have heard a number of politicians complain that they have to spend so much time raising money for their next campaign while in office. Some say 2/3rd to 3/4ths of their time is doing fundraising. Very sad. Who provides the big money? Exactly those entities that OWS is speaking out against. So, the politicians are stuck with having to bite their tongues or cut off their campaign funding. Or worse, bring in an onslaught of funds to anyone that runs against them in the next election. As elections are only 2 years apart with the need to start campaigning at least one year before, that leaves only 1 year to do something and it is hard to cut off the hand that feeds you.

Occupy however could cut off the hand that feeds the politicians. I do not believe the goals are to shut down or bankrupt these entities, but the 99% can positively let their power be felt. We saw this in Wisconsin this year. It was learned that a bank in the area had made a major donation to the Governor's campaign. The people started withdrawing their money and closing accounts. I have received what I consider misdirected emails to not buy gas for a week due to high gas prices. Obviously we cannot live without banking nor can we live without gas for our cars. But, we can live without one bank and we can live without one gas company. Yet again, it is not my idea to kill a corporation but only to force them to be moral.

In my opinion, if a bank is too big to fail, it is too big to exist. The 99% with the help of a few of the OWS leaders, could choose one bank... hopefully the worst offender and ask the 99% to withdraw all money from that bank and close all accounts with that bank. To prevent the action would require a promise of no political contributions.

OWS leaders could also choose one major corporation, such as a gas company and ask the 99% to not purchase gas or products from that corporation for one week or one month, again with the retribution ended with the promise of no political contributions.

This hits the offenders in the pocket book. It has the ability to kill available funds used for political contributions. As the movement continues in success on this strategy, other corporations should realize they could be next on the list and step up to make the promise before being called out. This begins the scouring process in Washington. Again the people could elect their leaders and the leaders would have to answer to 'the people', not to whoever is providing the most funding for their campaigns.

Please consider this nationwide option as a much broader way to 'strike' in a new way. We the people ultimately do have all the power as we are the 99%! They are only the 1%.

[-] 2 points by Unruled (2) 12 years ago

No matter what, we've got to keep this GROWING. We will never be heard if we are not enough voices.

[-] 2 points by blocade (81) 12 years ago

police are a distraction and they are being used as such, they want the same changes but want to keep their jobs at the same time. They should be protesting with us but they are afraid!

They are not willing to endanger their steady checks and work toward positive changes in government.

[-] 1 points by shizzle08 (119) 12 years ago

That is because we do not pay our officers enough for them to save and have a large enough cushion to afford time off.

[-] 1 points by blocade (81) 12 years ago

they get $50 grand per year and full benefits on the west coast, same on the east i believe?

[-] 1 points by shizzle08 (119) 12 years ago

You think 50,000 is enough to live in America in post 2000? To top it all off they must risk their lives dealing with people who hate them.

[-] 1 points by ungr8ful (70) from Benicia, CA 12 years ago

I don't understand do people not read on your heaven and earth there Blocade. Its been reported in plenty of articles why the cops are not allowed to take today off. I would tell you but I think YOU should maybe make more of an effort to know what your talking about.

[-] -1 points by raines (699) 12 years ago

Why should a policeman give up a job that has a pension and great benefits to support a wayward mob?

[-] 1 points by blocade (81) 12 years ago

exactly, a nice cozy government job?? what ever will they do without it, we know capitalism makes no guarantees, and neither does government, guess they are scared to die of hunger, go American!

[-] 0 points by raines (699) 12 years ago

Unions, the over reach of unions.Most working people do not belong to a unions, but the police do and that's what you're up against.

[-] 2 points by Finance (11) 12 years ago

To protest the behavior of big banks, thousands have pledged to switch to small credit unions on November 5. Follow these steps to simplify the process.


[-] 0 points by raines (699) 12 years ago

I'm keep my big banks.

[-] 2 points by thoreau42 (595) 12 years ago

Government has a monopoly on violence. It's no surprise when they decide to use it.

[-] 0 points by AnarchoRevolutionary (-14) 12 years ago

What say we do a little trust busting :) LOL

[-] 2 points by thoreau42 (595) 12 years ago

i loled.

[-] 1 points by iam99pct (115) 12 years ago

Downvoted for name and comment. But a half point for the pun.

Watched the "anarchists" breaking glass in Oakland today. What a bunch of pussies - they need a non-violent march to hide behind. These guys won't last 10 seconds in any real fight. That's why it's so ironic when they advocate violence. I don't doubt that a the larger looking ones are undercovers.

[-] 0 points by AnarchoRevolutionary (-14) 12 years ago

To think because you saw an anarchist do something that you understand anarchism is like think you understand a humanist because you saw a human do something.

As far as the "macho" who can outlast whom in a fight, anarchism is an intellectual/philosophical/political theory/perspective. It is not a "body type"

Thank you for liking the pun :)

Anarchist also advocate a number of things... There are even some who do advocate aggression and uninitiated violence. I do not.

The point you bring up about agitation and cointelpro type activities is a fair one, however, it's dishonest to think the undercovers don't also suggest a diversity of tactics...

Again, the undercovers are part of the PIG culture which I oppose.

[-] 2 points by iam99pct (115) 12 years ago

Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I apologize for pigeonholing "anarchists". The term actually has a long and ambiguous history (in the early 1900s, anarchists were free marketeers, what people now call libertarians!). Now of course it includes some pretty smart theorists like Zerzan and Bookchin, but mostly connotes a college kid who is bored/ashamed of being middle class and white.

So what we have to do here is get some young kids to back down a little on their so-called radical beliefs which cause them to want to destroy stuff in the midst of a non-violent protest. Like what happened yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q83vznuZwgU

Mostly stupid kids, motivated by some undercover FBI agent spouting some "anarchist theory". And a cowardly, pointless act that will cost the movement in the mainstream press coverage and therefore the public opinion.

[-] 1 points by pseudocop (11) 12 years ago

Nothing should be "too big to fail".

[-] 1 points by daysend (3) 12 years ago

A revolution is coming and when it does the police won’t be on your side. The my be part of the 99% but they work for the 1%.

[-] 1 points by daysend (3) 12 years ago

A revolution is coming and when it does the police won’t be on your side. The my be part of the 99% but they work for the 1%.

[-] 1 points by daysend (3) 12 years ago

A revolution is coming and when it does the police won’t be on your side. The my be part of the 99% but they work for the 1%.

[-] 1 points by DonQuixot (231) 12 years ago

It is David against Goliath-Wall Street, who own the politicians, the police and the media, and they will use lies, infiltrators,criminals, and every conceivable evil means. But God is on our side and we will prevail, we shall overcome, it is only a matter of time. Nazi Wall Street is doomed in the long run.

[-] 1 points by ddd3 (1) 12 years ago

When the NYC police chief stated last week that 20 NYC police officers had been injured while seeking to police OWS, was that disputed by OWS or challenged in any way?? Is this number of officers injured accurate to the best of your knowledge?

[-] 1 points by FTBBREVOLT (3) 12 years ago

I agree. When police ask us to move out of the street, move. That does not mean GO HOME!! It means stop blocking other citizens from using the street.

How many older police officers do you see here? In your home towns and the places you have visited?

I ask this question because of the high amount of baby boomers filling those jobs. Many are fighting to stay on another year or two past retirement age at the same time younger more capable people wait for openings.

I ask you to inquire when you see older public workers, such as police, to ask these questions: How long have you been doing what you do? How long till you are allowed to retire? Why are you still working (If they are eligible to retire)? For every two that retire, three jobs will open up.

Lower unemployment, more economic growth, and reduced expense to tax payers will result. Their pensions, once they start drawing them, do not come out of your pocket.

[-] 1 points by StevenRoyal (490) from Dania Beach, FL 12 years ago

When the police turn out in riot gear, it may seem natural to automatically face off against them. They would rather you face off against the police as a distraction than face off against the real problem - Wall Street Greed.

[-] 1 points by wilsondog (8) 12 years ago

Trying to eliminate greed is like trying to eliminate pride, laziness, hate, lust, envy....so good luck with that.

[-] 1 points by wilsondog (8) 12 years ago

Perhaps if protesters stopped stealing stuff, committing sexual assaults and harassment, stopped having sex in public & doing drugs, stopped embracing communism and anti-Semitism, and stopped the mindless chanting, abusing local business owners (other 99%ers), stopped threatening the press, and stopped demanding free stuff they would …and get it clue that its not criminalization of dissent but criminalization of criminal activity, and they are protesting in the wrong place and blaming the wrong people they might get somewhere

[-] 1 points by trod507 (1) 12 years ago

wall street protestors are disgusting descraces to america they are a bunch of pigs . i personally believe the nypd should be able to shoot down any protestor they choose becuse the protectors are a bunch of blind childish fools !

[-] 1 points by FairFacts (1) 12 years ago

In this country, we do not get to pick and choose when and where the law is enforced. There is no right of “occupation” included in the Bill of Rights, nor does a desire to protest accord a right to take over private property, or disregard the laws of the land. What if instead of OWS, it was the KKK?

[-] 1 points by thankyou15teen (1) 12 years ago

I support OWS fully, but I think the occupiers need to keep in mind that when you participate in civil disobedience, you are willfully breaking the law, and are willing to suffer the consequences to further the cause. Do you think OWS would be getting as much media attention if the police weren't acting poorly? Probably not. When you disobey the police, no matter how absurd the law is (being arrested for using a megaphone is absurd, for instance), you are breaking the law. Are the police justified? No. Are they doing their job? Yes. Attacking the police just furthers the violence. Keep focused on the message, be peaceful, and remember the more the police attack us, the more the media cover us, and the closer we are to our goal.

[-] 1 points by nich (57) 12 years ago

I agree with occupying the entire capital(White House and Congress). They are the 1%, for the %, paid by the %. Conduct a conspicuous GA in Washington. The comparison is stark. OWS already has more operational money than they know what to do with and that isn't really a lot of money to most of these bozos.

Peaceful but insistent (unrelenting), confrontational with local implications (show them up for the fools that they are by asking embarrassing questions about local problems).

They love to talk, they love to spin. Give them room to talk and spin, watch them screw themselves into the ground.

It is obvious that the NYPD question has many facets, will not be resolved, is not amenable to a discreet strategy to handle them.

But we have a movable feast. Leave a contingent at Zucotti to conduct the GA as the response to the establishment for agendas and goals. Show them that we have already accomplished our agendas and goals. We can conduct democracy with people that all have different ideas but are more or less, in the same boat.

The attention that OWS Wall Street has gotten is probably finite as you have this conundrum of how to understand and deal with the NYPD. And they present the problem of impenetrable cordon that we cannot penetrate with the resources at hand (our bodies).

Meanwhile, OWS movements have sprung up everywhere, (another accomplishment) expand the one in Washington and show the flexibility to pivot. Keep everyone guessing, especially the 1%. They absolutely hate uncertainty. This may get them to do something really stupid as politicians are wont to do.

[-] 1 points by the101stpercent (5) from Westhampton, NY 12 years ago

The police told protesters (at the Brooklyn Bridge) that if they stepped off the sidewalk and onto the roadway they would be arrested. The lead protesters marched onto the streets, and encouraged the crowd to follow. Why blame police for your leaders' actions?

And FYI, most police officers aren't millionaires, or by any means "rich" at all.

[-] 1 points by CapitalistPigAmerican (3) 12 years ago

Repeal the LUST tax!!!

[-] 1 points by afreemaninpa (3) from West Chester, PA 12 years ago

I know this post will most likely be deleted. It doesnt support your cause. Instead of taking the time to understand, it is much easier to just delete what you dont like. Thats what you are doing right now. your "Movement" hates what it wants and dont understand. You want it without earning it. It appears the Movement is full of people who are dilusional. You think you represent 99%. Speak more clearly about your cause. You represent yourselves. You call this corporate greed because you choose not to earn your wealth. I choose to EARN my wealth. I was once like you. Unknowledgable. Uneducated. Undriven because I played myself a victim. You are not victims. You have a choice. You choose to hate what you do not understand. Understandably so. We as a nation are brought up to hate what we dont understand. Of course, we want everything to be easy. You want what the "1%" have, everything handed to you on a platter. You want what you are protesting against. Thats the sheer definition of hypocricy. They earned it. I am not a member of the upper or middle class. I am a free citizen of these United States. I earn my way. The Majority of these corporations EARNED their way. Why cant you do the same. Bill Gates wasnt always wealthy. He EARNED his company. Steve Jobs was broke as well. He EARNED his way. Why cant you "Occupiers" just grow up. Go home. EARN your way. Like I said in the beginning. You will delete this post because it doesnt support your "cause". That is also Un-American. You want freedom to express. WATCH YOU SUPRESS MINE.

[-] 1 points by Deleuzional (16) 12 years ago

It's spelled "delusional."

[-] 1 points by AmericanCitizen1 (2) from Charlotte, NC 12 years ago

I can see that you have good intentions "afreemaninpa", but it seems that you're a bit out of touch, or Perhaps you're missing the point. The point being that things are so out of control with our economy now, that people can't "earn" the money to even buy food, much less acquire "wealth" because they can't find jobs. As far as corporate kings go, they didn't "earn" their money, they took advantage of desperate people, capitalized on their misfortune, and ran this country into the ground. And, when things got bad, did the majority of corporate executives take a cut in their own pay? No, they turned on their own employees and did away with jobs. If you truly want to understand what's going on, start by renting a movie called "Maxed Out". Honestly, I've never met a person that didn't want the comforting feeling that comes with being self-reliant, who didn't want to work, or make their own way. God forbid you lose your job, but if you do, I think you will see things a little differently.

[-] 1 points by davisstraub (52) 12 years ago

We all have an interest in maintaining and enforcing our first amendment rights to peacefully assemble. This is something that both the Tea Party adherents and OWS could possibly agree on as the Tea Party avows their love of the US Constitution (we'll see).

I see one possible direction for all the Occupy movements, which is to seriously highlight our claim to this right.

[-] 1 points by AmericanCitizen1 (2) from Charlotte, NC 12 years ago

When people read about Occupy Wall Street, their protest and the events that take place during them, they should keep in mind that those who participate are not trouble making criminals who have nothing better to do with their time, instead they are brave American Citizens who have little left to lose, due in part to the unbridled greed of Corporate America, as they exercise their right to display their dissatisfaction with the way things are being handled in this country. If anything they should be upheld for being courageous, while the rest of sit back and desperately try to hold on to what little we have left. I support them and would like to add the question; Who moved my government cheese?

[-] 1 points by blessedmom64 (1) 12 years ago

I've been watching and reading about the OWS'ers...having discussions with who ever will...at first I was totally against it thinking it was just a bunch of ' socialist trouble makers'...'a bunch of spoiled brats going thru hard times' and wanting somebody to take care of them and give them a hand out...but I started looking at this movement with an open mind...wondering if this what Thomas Jefferson was talking about when he said the 'people would do the right thing.' The Tea Party is the right thing to get the Federal government to go on a 'diet'...The OWS'ers are thing 'right thing to get the 1% to go on a 'diet', that is check itself and it's ways. However, the actions of the OWS'ers are not impressing me. They are acting like 'hotheads' and not thinking thru the consequences. When I say 'they' I am lumping all the OWS'ers together because the less than idealic actions of a few taint the many...because of this I can not fully back this cause. I understand and believe that the discussion has to be conducted but the way it's coming across...brings to mind a bunch of 'immature' kids...

[-] 1 points by DonQuixot (231) 12 years ago

Police corruption is general in the whole planet and stems from financial and political corruption, despite honorable exceptions of honest policemen. This means police chiefs are generally corrupt, if you do not accept corruption you don't get to be chief. They are the banksters police, not the people's police, and therefore enemies of the people in every country, just like under nazis and communists. It is going to be a long legal battle for which we need lots of money and lots of lawyers, as the Supreme Judges in most countries are appointed by the corrupt politicians at the service of big money. As you rightly say, there is no solution but revolution to this corrupt world of neofascism in democratic desguise.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 12 years ago


[-] 1 points by Deadream (2) 12 years ago

As far as "Occupy" has come, it would be a shame to now let a few dissidents tarnish the message intended. Media coverage has a way of using unsavory images to portray negativity and promote fear. Please keep the peaceful positive voice strong!

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 12 years ago

I went by the Occupy San Diego and saw more police cars and officers in heavy gear standing like a picket fence in front of the protest

few would cross that line for fear their might be trouble from the police

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 12 years ago

The police are acting like this is a physical, violent war. It's frickin' disgusting.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 12 years ago

the civic center is not a high visibility spot

[-] 1 points by therock (30) from Altona, NY 12 years ago

"Love thine enemies." Jesus of Nazareth

[-] 1 points by therock (30) from Altona, NY 12 years ago

I am saddened by the violence that spoiled the Oakland strike last night. Here is a quote from sociologist, William Domhoff, a UC Santa Cruz sociologist: "But given the freedoms, civil liberties, and voting rights achieved by a long line of American egalitarians and liberals, there is no end that could be justified by violence, property destruction, or armed struggle in this country. Such actions undercut the democratic rights won by past egalitarians and play into the hands of the government, which has the power to isolate and defeat any violent movement. Furthermore, property damage and armed struggle of any kind are overwhelmingly rejected by the vast majority of the American people." Those who study the history and sociology of movements can shine a light on how to successfully build this movement. Please do not give in to fear, anger, and your basest human instincts for revenge. It will accomplish nothing--in fact, it will undo what has been accomplished thus far.

[-] 1 points by dls101 (27) 12 years ago

I agree that the police are not the enemy.... Violence is a huge issue... We often treat each other in disrespectful ways... It's so magnetic to focus on the police... I do not agree that we have become an anti-police movement. But I do believe that we must be addressing this issue of police violence and the use of violence. What to do?

[-] 1 points by AreUSerious (20) 12 years ago

"obsession with order maintenance". Isn't it their responsibility to maintain order?

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 12 years ago

It is when things get out of order, but the protests haven't been out of order.... except for maybe a few idiots in the crowd.

[-] 1 points by MarkDuwe (127) 12 years ago

Next Nov.8th we should all support democracy and help people who need a ride to the polls. Contact your local party head,...democrat or GOP and they will help you. This is non-partisan, for the most part. Just good democracy and good PR as well.

[-] 1 points by zorbaka2 (61) 12 years ago

I don't believe the police are pigs. I think name calling takes attention away from the problem. The facts are freely available online for anyone to see what has happened over the last few decades. Leading to financiers almost bankrupting the entire world economy. The perpetrators then were bailed out and fraud ran rampant. for this service they increased their bonuses. MF global where tens of millions seem to be missing. Government money for banks to speculate with highly leveraged financial instruments. Nothing much changed after the debacle. left alone these manipulators will lead us to a worse disaster where 30% are unemployed.

[-] 1 points by ckfox (29) 12 years ago

I don't understand how commenters think this article is at all anti-police. There's nothing anti-police in here, it's entirely anti-bad behavior by police. Bad behavior we have seen over and over again in the real world within the course of these demonstrations.

I'm not up there but I've watched the live feed for hours and been shocked at watching waves of riot cops amass for...people standing around, before the shoving, nearly crushing with horses, and verbally bullying as well as random arrests get going, because, yes, that's happened too.

There's a ginormous gap between being anti-police and saying "Hey, maybe the police are behaving inappropriately here in a way that endangers citizens and wastes public funds."

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 12 years ago


[-] 1 points by Oconnellomics (6) from Walthamstow, England 12 years ago

Police action will be driven by public opinion. To solve the police problem, develop sophisticated strategies to bring public opinion onside.

Check this out: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15567206

Embarrassing religious leaders into supporting the movement's aims is a good way of bringing mainstream public opinion onside. Already in the UK there is a groundswell of popular support from unexpected (socially conservative) quarters. This has happened accidentally just because St. Paul's became involved by default when Stock Exchange protesters were moved on.

It's time to learn a lesson from this and to address religious leaders publicly and directly to persuade them to support the movement's aims.

[-] 1 points by Oconnellomics (6) from Walthamstow, England 12 years ago

OWS needs sophisticated strategies: Check this out: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15567206

Embarrassing religious leaders into supporting the movement's aims is a good way of bringing mainstream public opinion onside. Already in the UK there is a groundswell of popular support from unexpected (socially conservative) quarters. This has happened accidentally just because St. Paul's became involved by default when Stock Exchange protesters were moved on.

It's time to learn a lesson from this and to address religious leaders publicly and directly to persuade them to support the movement's aims.

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 12 years ago

This is an excellent piece. Remember we are in our infancy and many do not yet understand the message. If we break all bridges with police officers now, we could set ourselves a harder mission. If we get their unions if we bring them to understand, we would have a very very easy piece of cake walk in doing what we want to do. Until the REST of the 99% understands and gets behind us, they are fearful of losing their jobs, upsetting the boat (for example only 5% of workers stayed home in Oakland for the strike) and will take time to understand, then join. It should not be 'either you are for us or against us!' but 'If you listen to what I have to say and see what is happening, I know you will be for us." Give ALL the people some time, for crying out loud, to hear, to hear again, to understand. The day we make friends with the cops and work with understanding, is the day they come on our side of the barricade.

[-] 1 points by BillSmith (6) 12 years ago

Why not also protest Republican areas? While both parties are guilty of being captured by the wealthy elite, the Republicans are far worse.

Take Eric Cantor...the poster child for government by and for the 1%. Why not take the protests to Cantor's district?? Why not impose the cost and inconvenience on the people who put him in office?? One thing for sure: They hate taxes. Why not let their tax dollars pay for dealing with the protests, instead of a city like Oakland??

I would really like to see the protests include the Republican areas that so strongly support policies that drive income inequality. Go after Boehner's district and Ryan's -- and incovenience the people who voted for a moron like Michele Bachmann. Protest in Rick Perry's back yard. Let Texas taxpayers eat the expense of dealing with it.

Also, a lot of Repubican strongholds are in the South, and protesting there will be easier in winter. Sarasota FL is supposedly the "meanest city in the USA" for the way they treat the homeless....what a great (and warm) place for a protest.

Dr. King took his protests to the South. Maybe OWS should do the same.

[-] 1 points by JamesEvanhoe (1) 12 years ago

EVERY ONE "OCCUPY WALL STREET IS GETTING THERE" Keep everything cool and by Spring when there is better weather it will be time to march on Washington DC.... approximately 3 million or better, as many as 10 million is absolutely possible. Democracy works when everyone get involved to save Democracy! Jim Evanhoe

[-] 1 points by thelastman (51) from Tyler, TX 12 years ago

Just a suggestion (and I'm sure that many of us already have), get out your Gandhi and King! Read and think it through! What exactly is the power of nonviolence? What are we working toward here? How is lasting social change achieved? Who are our real enemies? There is tremendous potential here, but there is also a very real risk that any "revolution" won't go deep enough into hearts and minds. Just look at India after they finally gained independence from British rule.

[-] 1 points by RevolutionaryTruth (95) from Houston, TX 12 years ago

Together As One We Will Make A Difference!!! No reason for anti-police there are a few who abuse their powers yes, but the same goes with the Occupy Movement there are those who try to shame us and make us look bad, but CHANGE FOR THE FUTURE CANT!!! http://therevolutionarytruth.tumblr.com/

[-] 1 points by ariunbat (3) 12 years ago

occupy mongolia!!!!

[-] 1 points by ariunbat (3) 12 years ago

I agree! same case in mongolia

[-] 1 points by petefromtheuk (1) from Southport, England 12 years ago

Please keep the non violence. it is essential. Look to Ghandi, Mandela and others. non violent protest may not beas dramatic but it is effective. Keep your dignity and self respect. That will move mountains in time. Make this protest cause the change we yearn for. Power to the People

[-] 1 points by live432 (3) from New York, NY 12 years ago

Take the power back. I did: vimeo.com/live432/vaffanculo

[-] 1 points by ThisIsNotCapitalism (156) from Redmond, WA 12 years ago

What we have now is definitely NOT capitalism! Even during the "Robber Barron" era, average top management pay was only what, 10-1 to the average employee? Today it is over 300-1!

You are right that the undefined intentions of OWS have kept some people (including myself) uncommitted until we can be certain of what we're supporting. However it is this very idea that gives this movement credibility. The front page of this site sums it up pretty well, to paraphrase "we're not making demands of a corrupt political/financial system."

That simple idea captures it all. Making demands of a corrupt system only sanctions it's existence and power. This movement makes it clear, we don't; demand, request, want or NEED TO ask for ANYTHING from you. This is OUR country, and the government answers to the people, not the other way around!

I am not an anarchist suggesting we should do away with the government. I like roads and clean water as much as the next person. To say that what we have now is capitalism is a sick perversion. It is not a free market where corporate lobbyists and greedy politicians have destroyed any real opportunity for any significant choice in this country. Tarp bailouts and foreclosure-destroyed credit ratings, caused by poor corporate investing and lack of responsible decision making, is not capitalism. Capitalism is not 0% tax rates for a select, favored few and poorly defined antitrust laws. Captilism is not no-bid contracts and back room deals.

Corporations exist to make money. The government exists to serve the best interests of the people as a whole. Business creates wealth, government consumes it. It is up to the people, through the government, to balance the wealth of business growth with the overall impact which this growth produces. We now have a tainted system which turns capitalism (the worlds first and only system of personal freedom) on it's head, concentrating wealth instead of dispersing it.

I support OWS in calling out the prostitution of our government and financial institutions by a handful of greedy gluttons and their destruction of freedom and opportunity!

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 12 years ago

"Today it is over 300-1!"..... try 425:1!!!

[-] 1 points by ThisIsNotCapitalism (156) from Redmond, WA 12 years ago

One word... Damn. I saw a lot of these statistics illustrated very colorfully at the end of, all things, the movie "The Other Guys". Does any body know of something that exists like that, that is public domain? I think it would be very powerful.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 12 years ago

Are you talking about the statistics?

[-] 1 points by nongenerica (8) 12 years ago

REALLY great story about how police can actually be helpful to us - http://www.reddit.com/r/occupywallstreet/comments/ly9vk/he_has_the_right_to_speak_said_the_cop_to_the/

[-] 1 points by modeanarchy (5) 12 years ago

It appears my comments have been removed?? What next?

[-] 1 points by silverstreet (3) 12 years ago

The police are not our friends. They are part of the police state.

[-] 1 points by silverstreet (3) 12 years ago

The police are not our friends.

[-] 1 points by silverstreet (3) 12 years ago

The police are not your friends.

[-] 1 points by Top5percent (1) 12 years ago

The job of a police officer is to do what their Chief tells them. If they disobey they risk getting fired. 20 years and out with a good pension. Arrests will continue to happen in our streets and Bloomberg will continue ordering the police and fire departments to disrupt protests. The world is watching. This is not the time to fold, this is not the time to cooperate. America or Corporate America. We did not draw the line. We are Americans. How long will we play the game of the material economy and put it ahead of our children, our happiness and our planet? I am working on getting myself and my family out of the system. Buy american, buy quality locally made products, don't penny pinch, pay your employees more, downgrade that 3,000 sq ft. home, give to your community, love your neighbor, put your money where your heart is and stop giving it to other people to make more money for you, they have no accountability and you eventually be robbed.

[-] 1 points by rema (-7) 12 years ago

a large part of the OWS fight is a struggle against corruption and the abuse of power in our government.
unfortunately, if you take a look at all of the criminal activity perpetuated by the police against the citizens they are supposedly sworn to "protect and serve" (especially here in NYC -- planting evidence, raping women, gun smuggling, ticket fixing, and so much more), the attitude that they are "above the law" is in no way different than the wall street mentality. they think they can get away with it because they HAVE gotten away with it. and just as we say to wall street and to our bought politicians that this illegal behavior that harms the 99% must stop, the police corruption must also be addressed in the same manner.
and the fact that they are stomping on people's first amendment rights (sometimes in very violent ways) is just more evidence of their abuse of power against innocent people in this country who are just trying to get their voices heard.

[-] 1 points by HenryHughes (1) from Marblemount, WA 12 years ago

Rule of Law vs. the Forces of Order? Please. The rule of law is how the forces of order maintain same. Turns out law is extremely flexible. Surely this is obvious from reading most any periodical on any given day.

[-] 1 points by modeanarchy (5) 12 years ago

@Shizzle BTW , NYPD faces violence? Are you fucking kidding me? I've seen them handcuffing 10 year old kids in Brooklyn You think NYC. Is dangerous now? Yeah the hipsters in Brooklyn with all their tatoos and laptops, 100k salaries are real bad ass! Oh yeah and then you have the dangerous homies in Bed-Stuy, oohh, You haven't a clue! Subjugation, oppression and repression must end, The Police State Must End!

[-] 1 points by modeanarchy (5) 12 years ago

I agree with anarchy-revolutionary. The state perpetrates violence against people on A minute to minute basis and the police are the enforcers of Mass violence against the people. Whether or not a Billy club comes down on your head or not doesn't mean they are non- violent. The cops are the very symbol of violence! You may think you can use machines of torture in your new Progression but that would be the same as using ovens at Auschwitz to Bake bread! CAPITALISM AND THE STATE OPPRESSION MUST GO! ANARCHISM for a free humanity! You people need to give up your condo, your Subaru wagon, Your holidays at the Cape and your so called f'ng democracy, it's a lie!

[-] 1 points by brownaa (2) 12 years ago

Wow got to livestream "possible death of protester"

[-] 1 points by Tink754 (3) from New York, NY 12 years ago

I stand and support OWS, however, I feel the name is limiting...I believe it should be called "WE THE PEOPLE". I am one of the 99% and am disgusted with the greed and disparagy between the classes. We have now created a discourse with the cast system, and the question is...who is the majority. Through collective and universal consciousness of the masses, change can be attained. I think changing the name to "WE THE PEOPLE" is a more inclusive, and global action.

[-] 1 points by brownaa (2) 12 years ago

I support this movement but what if the government feels threaten and goes against the Constitution. I predict something will happen and OWS will get more serious than what it is, (death of a protester while protesting, by police) and I hope that doesn't happen. I am glad we are waking up, but its deeper, working citizens are pawns (my opinion) and are victims of capitalism.

[-] 1 points by RogerT (36) 12 years ago

The point is not that the police are the "enemy"-- the police work for the state and the state is controlled by the 1%. The NYPD takes its orders from billioniare Bloomberg. It is politicians who represent the 1% who dictate to the police what they are to do. Living in such a culture many police have adapted to it and think they really protect the citizens (they do from petty crime and crimes of personal violence-- but political crimes [free speech against the 1%] they don't protect unless the 1% say so). The article just points out how in recent years the political decision was made that democracy was getting out of hand and the police should be beefed up in case the people get out of control and want to do something unthinkable-- such as take over Wall Street.

[-] 1 points by Tink754 (3) from New York, NY 12 years ago

I stand and support OWS, however, I feel the name is limiting...I believe it should be called "WE THE PEOPLE". I am one of the 99% and am disgusted with the greed and disparagy between the classes. We have now created a discourse with the cast system, and the question is...who is the majority. Through collective and universal consciousness of the masses, change can be attained. I think changing the name to "WE THE PEOPLE" is a more inclusive, and global action.

[-] 1 points by Tink754 (3) from New York, NY 12 years ago

I stand and support OWS, however, I feel the name is limiting...I believe it should be called "WE THE PEOPLE". I am one of the 99% and am disgusted with the greed and disparagy between the classes. We have now created a discourse with the cast system, and the question is...who is the majority. Through collective and universal consciousness of the masses, change can be attained. I think changing the name to "WE THE PEOPLE" is a more inclusive, and global action.

[-] 1 points by Faithntruth (997) 12 years ago

This article raises valid and important points, without being anti police, but rather it focuses on the use of questionable tactics being used to suppress our right to peaceful assembly, unhampered by restrictive rules and regulations. Police dont just decide to go out in force without the tacit approval, at least, of the political machine that funds them. Are there some bad cops? Sure, just like there are some bad protestors who cross the line. Civil disobedience (like protesting by marching in the street and hindering traffic) can be a safety issue for the general public, and choosing to take that route means you are willing to face the consequences of your actions. Much of the police action discussed above, however, was not taken for any valid public safety issue, though. It is about curfews, permits, tents, sleeping in public or other rules created to reduce crime, restrict homeless populations, and provide funds for maintaining public spaces. None of these should apply to protests or be used to interfere with peaceful assembly. And the problem stems from those who direct the police, rather than from the majority of cops who are as worried about their jobs as the rest of us. Focus on those who pull the strings....

[-] 1 points by Thisisthetime (200) from Kahlotus, WA 12 years ago

According to Mr. Marley, "The Sheriff is our enemy, not the deputy". I agree. Fair-ness.

[-] 1 points by sandhammaren08 (3) 12 years ago

Recalls to mind the late 1960s. A red-gray poster reminds me of an ill-fated academic attempt to resurrect the ILL/Wobblies. The Movement today truly lacks focus. With demands as broad as 'revolution' it will fail and peter out. Without specific focus and program it will be seen in retrospect as a giant happening. We are not Israel, we are not the Arab world. And after every Arabic spring revolution, Islamists have reared their theocratic heads.

[-] 1 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 12 years ago

Quote:... low-level criminalization of dissent...

We need to repeal unnecessary regulations on people, and increase regulations on Government and Big Businesses that seek to destroy the lives of Citizens.

It is local government, like your city council that we need to put an end to. These little fiefdoms are costing too much money, and pass stupid regulations on its citizenry.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 12 years ago

There is all this talk about how wrong it is to condemn "success." This is not only absurd, but shallow. How is this alleged success measured? By high unemployment? Poverty? War? Ill health? These are not measures of success, but failure to adhere to any kind of social compact. Not to mention that THE BANKS FAILED. This propaganda is perverse for its dogged willingness to tell blatant lies. MF Global files for bankruptcy and is missing over 700 millions dollars of clients money...another example of success?
Cain? He talks about his experience of running corporations as though he was not the head of Burger King... I mean come on.

[-] 1 points by ungr8ful (70) from Benicia, CA 12 years ago

Just a little under an hour until the all-new South Park episode "1%" airs on the East Coast!

[-] 1 points by 44mag (28) from Coventry, RI 12 years ago

A hero is born among a hundred, a wise man is found among a thousand, but an accomplished one might not be found even among a hundred thousand men.


[-] 1 points by interested08 (1) 12 years ago

I wish the hackers could send this all over the airwaves and wake everyone the hell up! http://youtu.be/tlWZZSD4irM

You're fighting for your rights. and if you can't remember that, then the Constitution and the Bill of Rights means nothing! We out number these bastards, and that puts the advantage in our favor!

[-] 1 points by AnarchoRevolutionary (-14) 12 years ago

Let's remember, the "Rule of Law" is an improvement (and only a slight improvement at that) over the "Divine Right of King" ... It's time to rethink this petty adherence to "law" rather than say "Science"...and "Love"

Down with the Power Establishment -- If there are any laws, it should be to limit them.

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 12 years ago

There is a low to limit them, the Constitution. It's not broken, but it has been allowed to be overruled.

Tea Party 2012

[-] 1 points by AnarchoRevolutionary (-14) 12 years ago

Well, yes and no.

While I understand that the Constitution is the "Law of the Land" (at least in name) ... The fact of the matter is the Constitution without amendments doesn't do much... With the amendments, which I'm very happy with in general, PREVENT the passage of laws.

The problem is, they don't "prevent" the passage of ENOUGH laws and as you point out, do almost nothing.

Finally, there is no Tea Party 'candidate.'

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 12 years ago

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. Except for your laws, right??

[-] 1 points by AnarchoRevolutionary (-14) 12 years ago

Did you have a specific example? If by "my laws" you mean for example of "law of universal gravitation" ...sure, and some might say that law is already "down" (provided they have a rudimentary understanding of gravity)... But I'm not really sure I have a "pet law"

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 12 years ago

You are beating around the bush. Gravity is quite a high claim for any man to make within the context of "my laws" might be. If "down" is a pun, well done. Some scientists are still trying to figure how it works and the interplay in all the known universe. I am trying to hang on and follow this as it develops.

So you don't have "pet" law. OK

[-] 0 points by figero (661) 12 years ago

free speech doesn't mean you can sleep in the park, defecate on the sidewalk bang on drums all night. This will end badly & by the use of force. It is inevitable. The only thing I don't understand is why the mayor is delaying the inevitable. break out the tear gas & hand cuffs and lets move one!

[-] 0 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 12 years ago

Be on the lookout for commercial brainwash plots on TV. They are written into nearly every scene of nearly every show. Most cater to network sponsors, coorporate partners, and parent companies. Especially commercial health care. In particular, high profit pharmaceuticals and excessive medical testing. These plugs are countless, calculated, and VERY well written. They have commercial brainwashing down to a science. DON'T FALL FOR IT. Get off the couch and take care of your own body the way nature intended. There is no substitute. If you must see a doctor, then DEMAND that he/she give you more than 5 minutes of their undivided attention. Otherwise, dispute their unreasonable charges. Be prepared with written questions about your condition and get them answered one at a time. If they refuse, then dispute their unreasonable charges. If they prescribe excessive medical testing, then ask if they personally own the equipment or if they are paid a commission for each test. If they find nothing new or signifigant, then dispute their unreasonable charges. If they prescribe a pharmaceutical, then ask for a generic. Better yet, concider a change in lifestyle or simple tolerance. If they still recommend the name brand pharmaceutical, then ask about any financial ties or conflict of interest. If they get offended, then dispute their unreasonable charges and consider a new doctor. If you must drug away your sniffles, worries, jitters, aches, and pains, then at least do your homework. Be aware of the possible side-effects ahead of time. Don't be surprised to find yourself back a week or two later feeling worse. In which case, you should dispute their unreasonable charges. If you are diagnosed with another medical condition, then ask your doctor what he/she has done to rule out those possible side-effects. Otherwise, dispute their unreasonable charges. Don't let any greedy doctor treat you like a number, make you wait an hour, or rush you out of their office. Otherwise, dispute their unreasonable charges. Don't fall for this CRAP that doctors have no choice but to over-book their time or over-charge their patients because of a high overhead. ITS A LIE. YOUR DOCTOR IS MOST LIKELY A MULTI-MILLIONAIRE. The same goes for their bogus claim to over-test so many of their patients because they are afraid of missing something and being sued for it. THAT IS ANOTHER FLAT-OUT LIE. Afterall, if this were true, then it would only explain some of the unnecessary testing. NOT THE OBSCENE CHARGES. It also wouldn't explain their own financial ties directly to the manufacturers of said testing equipment. Thats right. Most doctors hold stock in the very same companies that produce that equipment. Its another conflict of interest. So don't fall for their CRAP. Demand their undivided attention and respect. Afterall, they took an oath. If you have the opportunity before being admitted, then check the record of your hospital. Check to see if they have been investigated or sued for providing unnecessary treatment, excessive medical testing, or fraudulent billing. Dozens have already been caught doing so. Do all of the above regardless of your coverage. Don't force your employer to cover the obscene and often fraudulent charges of a corrupt health care industry. By doing so, you make the problem worse. Keep your guard up when watching ANY talk show. These people are not your friends. They are not your advocates. They are paid actors hired to get your attention and your money. Some of them are also executive producers (Oprah Winfrey, Ellen Degeneres, and Dr Phil.). Nearly every word, smile, and stupid joke is rehearsed ahead of time. Including those which take place so often during what appear to be 'technical oversights' (Today Show. Even their stage hands are mixed in behind the scenes so that you can hear them laugh at every stupid joke.). Its all fake. Its all calculated. These people are not trying to make the world a happy place. They are trying to entertain you only because their marketing studies have shown that you are more likely to drop your guard and support their sponsors. Nearly every segment is about marketing some over-priced product or service. They will use any excuse to plug a gadget, fashion item, travel destonation, credit card, university, drug, medical test, surgical procedure, movie, TV show, book, magazine, song, website, ect. Almost all of it over-priced. Almost all of it resulting in higher profits for their sponsors, partners, and parent companies. DON'T FALL FOR IT.

[-] 1 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 12 years ago

Big business is fine on occasion depending on their product, ethics, employment, profit margins, and profit sharing. Do your homework. If they are screwing up our economy or society, then don't pay them for it. If you want to support any legitimate charity, then do so directly. Never support any celebrity foundation. Don't be fooled by the sale of baby photos, lies about percentage of income donated, or praise from other well known public figures. Celebrity foundations are CRAP. They spend most of their funding on PR campaigns, exotic travel, and super high end accomodations for themselves. Thats right. Filthy rich public figures have been jet-setting the world in the name of 'humanity' for years. Riding in personal jets, staying in super-exclusive resorts, and living it up in exotic locations around the world the likes of which most people could never afford even if their lives depended on it. They bring along agents, advisors, publicists, hair, make-up, wardrobe, lighting, and photo crews who are also in it for themselves. They are paid six or seven figures for their part to schedule, manage, document, showcase, praise, and publicize the 'good will' of said public figures and their respective industries. Every possible expense is passed of as 'incidental' or 'necessary' and billed right back to some 'foundation' named after said public figure and/or respective industry. Every possible tax deduction is claimed. Which are incredibly vague and diverse thanks to our sold-out government. Deals are cut with major networks who agree to praise the 'good will' or 'humanitarian' effort of said public figures and plug their latest commercial project around the same time. Others from around the world pick up the story and save these industries billions in advertising every year. Resulting in higher profits and paychecks for the 1% club. When its all said and done more wealth is transfered from poor to rich. NOT the other way around. So don't support any charity named after a living celebrity. Don't be fooled or inspired by any photo you see in a magazine, any clip on TV, any affiliation, or any short term short sighted progress report. Instead, go to Charitywatch.org and look up a top rated charity to support your favorite cause. Its all there. For example: 'Habitat For Humanity' is a top rated charity. They have been for many years. They operate with a low overhead, volunteer workforce, and donated materials. They have built homes for the less fortunate in nearly every city nationwide. Including New Orleans. They do so as we speak. No similar effort can match their progress hour for hour or dollar for dollar. So there is no legitimate reason to support a slower, less efficient effort represented by a filthy rich Hollywood actor who flies in on a personal jet, takes most of the credit, and makes a deal with a major network for plugs just days before the premier of his latest film or DVD release. By doing so, you support not only the inefficient effort, but also the filthy rich actor. Concentrating more wealth and dumbing down our society further in the process. Instead, support 'Habitat For Humanity'. Its not perfect. It is affiliated with some big business. However, it is MUCH more efficient, effective, and less corrupt than 'Make It Right'. The difference is profound. In general, support the little guy as much as possible and the big guy as little as possible.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 12 years ago

Give your respect to police officers first to earn their respect in return. You can't make a withdrawal without making a deposit first. Rules from mother nature.

[-] 0 points by tsizzle (73) from De Pere, WI 12 years ago

the violence is going to unravel this movement very quickly...whether the Oakland police acted responsibly or not, this continued hating by the "OWS" is useless. The whole point of these protests have transformed into just another anarchist antagonism of the wrong establishments

[-] 0 points by velveeta (230) 12 years ago

the good old NYPD... there's a reason nobody uses the phrase "new york's finest" anymore... raping drunk women who need help getting into their apartments... fixing parking tickets and assault charges for their buddies... planting drugs during arrests... etc, etc... trust the NYPD? at your own peril

[-] 0 points by OccupyWallStreetButtons (16) 12 years ago

OCCUPY WALL STREET Pinback Buttons! ~~ only 99c !

A portion of proceeds will go toward our local movement in the form of food and drinks. If you have a few extra bucks, drop off a box of apples or anything you can to the folks outside in your community!

Free Shipping Offer! http://buttonbasket.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=25

[-] 0 points by AnimalFarm (31) 12 years ago

Once again, some of my comments were deleted. So while OWS talks about greed and corruption, and government control, it's just fine for OWS to be corrupt and controlling themselves via censoring, etc.

[-] 0 points by freeusa (14) 12 years ago

Are you ready to take over the city hall? Go Home friends, police officer are just doing their jobs, they don't like to stay out in the cold and pushing you back either. A protest last more then a month is enough for message to get heard, the issues is the system are run by money, the wall street guys are just the people who got the benefit of it and sure they do put people in to the our gov. system, but it takes money to run election, so who pay for those aids? at the end we are the idiot went out and vote for those who runs aid on the TV every other hours, so who do we blame? WE the people to be blame. go home and use the system depose those who do not serve us, then reelect someone who can serve us and get pay at minimal wage. then we are happy the wall street guys can not put their hand in to our system. To OWS members ask yourself this question, would you server the people of this country at minimal wage? a salary is not going to be enough to pay for your kids going to college, or just enough not to raise a family? greedy wall street? everyone please junk the PC you use now cause Microsoft make tons of money of you all. trash the IPHONE, IPAD cause Apple makes tons of money of you.

[-] 0 points by lisa (425) 12 years ago

Law enforcement is used to responding to protests and rallies, not occupations. As whether the question of if the crowd control is an unwarrented interference in people's free right to expression, that may end up be re-defined. Nobody argues that people have a right to assemble, and protest. The problem is when the protesting people do not go home, but stay there, then it is not an assembly, if an assembly has starting and ending time. Permits for large gatherings, protests, rallies, even outdoor concerts grant the right of assembly for a specific time frame. What rights to people who are participating in an occupation have? Do they have the same rights as people who are guaranteed the right of assembly? That has to be answered.

As these occupations grow in numbers, and length of time, new policies and regulations will probably be put into place. I don't think the Constitution gives people the right to seize an area and then claim it as their own for however long they want to do that.

[-] 1 points by leftfield (6) 12 years ago

With all due respect, the Constitution merely says that the right of the people to peaceably assemble and petition the government for redress of grievances shall not be infringed. There is no mention of time limits.

[-] 1 points by lisa (425) 12 years ago

When the laws were written, what was the custom at that time in regards to when people would assemble? If they commonly dispersed after a meeting, common sense would tell you that was their understanding of what assemble meant in that context. They could meet, discuss things and then go home. They never occupied their assembly places.

[-] 1 points by CommonPerson (10) 12 years ago

Thanks for this sane comment. This forum used to be full of relatively rational people debating important things. It now seems to have devolved into an insane free for all for people for speak without any data to back up their points.

[-] 1 points by aaronparr (597) 12 years ago

such as the comment you just supported.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 12 years ago

Watch this. aaronparr is a total idiot, wouldn't you agree Common Person.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 12 years ago

Isn't it amazing that with all of our knowledge, tech and otherwise, that we cannot even set up a forum that orders our replies to the comment we are replying to.

Someone posts something I oppose, and in a matter of minutes or even seconds, I am answering a post by someone I don't even know, didn't even read about and that is a total idiot. Makes me look like an idiot doesn't it. Good job programmers.

[-] 1 points by CommonPerson (10) 12 years ago


[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 12 years ago

See, it happened again. I didn't even get to read the prayer before someone said AMEN. Boy am I out of the loop.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 12 years ago

Here Here. Sometimes we only look at the Constitution to find rights of the people. The founding fathers were pretty adamant about property rights too. We have been through all this before -squatters rights, rights of abandonment, on and on.

Here we go again.

[-] 1 points by lisa (425) 12 years ago

The first place we should start on property rights, is the right of the people to be free from law enforcement entering their homes without a warrant, and this includes the perps from Homeland Security and the FBI. The National Intelligence Directorate is their own organization and nothing will ever stop them, so that's not even worth complaining about; but back in the days when the country was formed people didn't have to worry about private militias or wayward G men harassing the crap out of people in a manner more befitting the witchhunts of Salem, Massachusetts than intelligence gathering for their domestic hyperbole.

[-] 0 points by 182blink (22) 12 years ago

rule of law v. mob rule

[-] 1 points by Odin64 (36) 12 years ago

indeed the madness of ochlocracy, group think, the demon Legion (for we are many), mad mobs used through out history to instill fear into the minority.

[-] 1 points by lisa (425) 12 years ago

Democracy is actually mob rule, determined by the voting majority. The majority will change it's mind and perspective as the culture and society change.

[-] 1 points by Odin64 (36) 12 years ago

Which is why America is a republic where the majority and all minorities have a chance for equal representation

[-] 1 points by lisa (425) 12 years ago

Except that the equal number of bodies in Congress are not representing the minorities with any success. How many programs will be cut as a result of the Joint Supercommittee this month and their line by line budget cutting axe? January 2012 will be a very painful time in America.

[-] 1 points by Odin64 (36) 12 years ago

the super committee is a sham, it is an abomination of the democratic process it takes the power from the people.

[-] 1 points by lisa (425) 12 years ago

I agree they are not objective and they were handpicked based on knowing what they support and do not support, but that is how the system presently works, so that is what we have to deal with at this time; until others can be elected who will have introduce innovative ways of governance into the mix.

[-] 1 points by Deleuzional (16) 12 years ago

Absolutely! The police are the mob, the lawless legion, protecting the uber-rich. Well said, both!

[-] 1 points by 182blink (22) 12 years ago

actually OCW is the mob...the police are just maintaining order pursuant to the laws,statutes and ordinances promulgated by your elected officials..if you dont like the laws change them...at the ballot box

[-] 1 points by CommonPerson (10) 12 years ago

I'm happy the police are here to maintain order in the midst of the chaos you've brought to this neighborhood. I wish those of you who choose to defecate in the streets would please find an apartment share.

[-] 1 points by paulg4 (82) 12 years ago

HA HA.....like for how many hundeds of years!

[-] 1 points by landofthelost (9) 12 years ago

landofthelost sprays "stink be gone" on blink's 1%ness.

He (she) is just a troll looking to stir things up, ignore as usual.

[-] 1 points by 182blink (22) 12 years ago

yes please ignore me..as you do...thanks for the free advertising

[-] 1 points by Deleuzional (16) 12 years ago

Do you really think OWS is in charge of this country? They govern themselves, but beyond that, not very much. I'm guessing yr not very clear on how power works.

[-] 1 points by paulg4 (82) 12 years ago

No and I don't think thats their goal..

[-] 0 points by CommonPerson (10) 12 years ago

You're absolutley right "deleuzional." You're delusional.

[-] 1 points by Deleuzional (16) 12 years ago

I see your point: my username includes a misspelled version of the word, "delusional." That's very clever, and an extremely well thought out argument: "If he uses that name, he must not be very rational." I give you 14 points!

[-] 0 points by Gileos (309) 12 years ago

Useful idiots.

[-] -1 points by ronjj (-241) 12 years ago

I am definitely not exactly what you call rich, but I sure hope the mob (police) will protect me from you guys. I know a bunch of those guys by name, hope you have the same privilege where you live. One of these mob guys lives two units down from my townhome. He must be an impostor because he sure doen't fit your description very well. The most lawlessness he has evidenced was parking in my driveway while he exchanged hiis and the police cars in their places. I though I should call the cops then I realized that this was the lawless legion and I better not irritate them - That is what you are really trying to do isn't it Deleuzional, stir things up and get someone else to do the sacrificing for you as you lap up the blood of your puppets.

[-] 2 points by Deleuzional (16) 12 years ago

Have you seen the video of Anthony Bologna macing those girls? Have you seen the marine whose skull was fractured? These people were exercising their 1st amendment rights and were attacked. Not all cops are thugs, but they are definitely putting the rights of the rich over those of the people. As as for what I call "rich," let's go with the 1% idea. Do you like being fucked in the ass by super-rich elite financiers gambling away your home and retirement? Me neither.

[-] 0 points by ungr8ful (70) from Benicia, CA 12 years ago

Oh that is funny and sad at the same time.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 12 years ago

But you usually find someone or something controlling that mad mob, group think etc just like a puppet

Then when millions have been sacrificed to their insatiable greed for blood they have a way of disappearing (Hitler by suicide, others by hiding in SAmerica etc etc. throughout history).

[-] 2 points by Odin64 (36) 12 years ago

Exactly that's why you must be weary of the company we keep, throw the violent and destructive members out. Obey and be respectful to police and reform the nation like a democracy by voting.

[-] -1 points by owsboresme (1) 12 years ago

ows is not the 99% they claim to be, just another 1%

[-] 2 points by Deleuzional (16) 12 years ago

ows fascinates you -- that's why yr here

[-] 0 points by owsboresme (1) 12 years ago

no actually I came here to see what I do not get to see thru the major media outlets, ya know form an educated and informed opinion of my own.

[-] 3 points by Deleuzional (16) 12 years ago

You do realize that your user name contradicts your dependence on the OWS media teams, right? Since part of the movement is to point out what major media outlets don't or won't show us. You got that, right, bored?

[-] 0 points by AnimalFarm (31) 12 years ago

Or put another way "when you become obsessed with the enemy you become the enemy" replacing you with OWS, and indeed they are their own 1%.

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 12 years ago

Hah! If even that ! More like 0.0001%

[-] -1 points by ungr8ful (70) from Benicia, CA 12 years ago

It amazes me that at the all time high of reality tv and gossip magazines that these people cant find employment.

[-] -2 points by pseudocop (11) 12 years ago

Vigorously enforcing immigration laws would drain the pool of criminal invaders who are cheap labor that undercuts wages for the working class. American jobs are for AMERICANS.

[-] -1 points by ronjj (-241) 12 years ago

My job goes to the best qualified American who is here legally. Spend your time in the park - hope you are learning as much as the immigrant working with a expert carpenter. He may be making minimum wage today - but he has hope for tommorrow - DO YOU????

[-] -2 points by pseudocop (11) 12 years ago

During the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations, we have seen a gross overreaction to peaceful demonstrators engaging in minor violations of the law, such as using a megaphone, writing on the sidewalk with chalk, marching in the street (and across the Brooklyn Bridge), standing in line at a bank to close an account, and occupying a public park past closing hours...

Shutting down a bridge in a overcrowded city isn't a "minor violation"-it's actually a pretty big deal.

Taking over-"occupying" a public park and using it to advance a political agenda is also not a minor violation.

The irony that these left wing fanatics have a stage due to a "private park" where they put on their drama hasn't been remarked on enough.

If they tried to take over a public park they'd get their asses handed to them.

[-] 7 points by bulldog831 (62) 12 years ago

The police invited the demonstrators to use the roadway of the Brooklyn Bridge, then kettled them, and then arrested them. That is called police entrapment. Do you understand the news of just the last two days? A major investment house, MJ Global, was looted of $700M of it's client's money, by it's current CEO, the ex-NJ governor, also ex-CEO of Goldman Sachs, Jon Corzine. The amount of the theft was increased today to $1.5 billion. This theft will be hidden, as reported in the corporate media, in a bankruptcy filing. That is why OWS exists. Get your illegal acts in perspective. These crimes continue because the perpetrators know they will get away with it.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 12 years ago

Do they really know this or do they just assume. Worked out well for that Enron fellow didn't it.

[-] -2 points by pseudocop (11) 12 years ago

I find that difficult to believe- seeing how there are SO many cameras involved and no one has produced video of the police saying that to the leftist agitators makes it even harder to believe.

One thing I've seen over the year of living in NYC is the understandable importance that NYPD places on keeping traffic moving.

I doubt that the brass would decide on a whim to shut down the Brooklyn bridge for a group of troublemakers without a permit to march.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 12 years ago

We all tend to think that our importance is greater than it really is. It is called ego.

OOh, the Police are after me. They're just a big part of that bad bunch we have cornered in he 1%.

And the rest of the 99% are not awake up to realize that they can easily be moved into that 1% on an claim by a leaderless mob. WalMart today, Mom and Pop tomorrow.

[+] -4 points by pseudocop (11) 12 years ago

The criminal Jews like Corzine and their shabbos goys who ruined the US economy SHOULD be fined, imprisoned and barred from finance.

But the left wing fanatics behind OWS are not the solution.

Allowing them and their ilk to run amok is like trying to cure your headache by cutting off your fingers.

[-] 2 points by aaronparr (597) 12 years ago

Someday you will wake up and realize that despite your attitude you have been given back your country by those that you despise.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 12 years ago

Lots of luck in handling that guys. Can't even produce a report on where the $500.000 in donations went. Are you going to be sending our 1099'x or other proof of my donation (January is coming up and I kinda expect one)

[-] 0 points by pseudocop (11) 12 years ago

Someday you'll wake up and realize that Oakland is not NYC- NYPD still remembers the mistake of letting those squaters take over Tompkins square park in the 80's and they don't seem inclined to repeat that mistake.

Someday you'll realize that despite your attitude you've accomplished nothing but cheer on the destruction this country.

And it'll be too late to take it back.

[-] 1 points by aaronparr (597) 12 years ago

I'm sorry. Do you have something relevant to say? Please say it.

[-] 0 points by pseudocop (11) 12 years ago

That's the best you can do? No wonder people are lining up to laugh at "the movement".

[-] 1 points by aaronparr (597) 12 years ago

We took over a public park in Oakland and got world wide attention for the movement.

Think before you write - if you can.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 12 years ago

The Kardashians can get world wide attention by spitting in the park.. Great example there aaron.

While you are down there, would you mow the grass for me. I think I can find a better job.

[-] 1 points by nkp (33) 12 years ago

well said

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 12 years ago

Watch Oakland. Just a matter of time and it isn't on the side of the protesters. Someone is going to get a whoppin.

[-] 0 points by ungr8ful (70) from Benicia, CA 12 years ago

You know what drives me crazy is their half ass scribbled something revolutionary on a dirty piece of cardboard in pencil signs

[-] -3 points by FreeMarkets (272) 12 years ago

For each of the 984 Occupy Wall Street protesters arrested in New York City between September 18 and October 15, police collected and filed an information sheet recording the arrestee’s name, age, sex, criminal charge, home address and — in most cases — race. The Daily Caller has obtained all of this information from a source in the New York City government.

Among addresses for which information is available, single-family homes listed on those police intake forms have a median value of $305,000 — a far higher number than the $185,400 median value of owner-occupied housing units in the United States.

[-] 1 points by aaronparr (597) 12 years ago

You are talking about homes in NYC with a median value of $305,000 as being expensive?

And how many of those living in those residences own them. Please you need to actually present something convincing for once. Every time I see your comments I wince. You are obviously trying very hard here. But I wish you would educate yourself.

You don't have a clue about how market economies function which has been soundly demonstrated by our past exchanges. And now this. Telling 1/4 of the story if that. Not providing a link to your source. Etc...

Its sad. What I realize is that the attempts at trolling here by others and this limp criticism of your own (I would really appreciate it if you could put forth some solid criticism) are largely irrelevant. You are out of touch, and have no idea what you are seeing in this country. No matter what your politics unless you are one of the 1% you will benefit from this movement in the US.

You might even benefit more if you could put your mind to something more constructive and level real criticism at the movement. There is plenty of ground for that. Plenty to be criticized but you sadly have not proven up for the task. You almost seemed intelligent in a couple of our exchanges. And you are at least marginally articulate. Which is why I level this at you.

But so be it.

I'm tired of fishing for intelligent criticism amongst you sad people, and just forge ahead until a critic can actually produce an argument against the occupations with something real to it.

[-] 1 points by iam99pct (115) 12 years ago

your trolling is growing tiresome. Mods?