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We kick the ass of the ruling class

#OccupyWallStreet Union March From Foley Square on Wall Street

Posted 2 years ago on Oct. 4, 2011, 8:36 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

On October 05, 2011, at 3:00 in the afternoon the residents of Liberty Square will gather to join their union brothers and sisters in solidarity and march. At 4:30 in the afternoon the 99% will march in solidarity with #occupywallstreet from Foley Square to the Financial District, where their pensions have disappeared to, where their health has disappeared to. Together we will protest this great injustice. We stand in solidarity with the honest workers of:

  • AFL-CIO (AFSCME)
  • United NY
  • Strong Economy for All Coalition
  • Working Families Party
  • TWU Local 100
  • SEIU 1199
  • CWA 1109
  • RWDSU
  • Communications Workers of America
  • CWA Local 1180
  • United Auto Workers
  • United Federation of Teachers
  • Professional Staff Congress - CUNY
  • National Nurses United
  • Writers Guild East

And:

  • VOCAL-NY
  • Community Voices Heard
  • Alliance for Quality Education
  • New York Communities for Change
  • Coalition for the Homeless
  • Neighborhood Economic Development Advocacy Project (NEDAP)
  • The Job Party
  • NYC Coalition for Educational Justice
  • The Mirabal Sisters Cultural and Community Center
  • The New Deal for New York Campaign
  • National People's Action
  • ALIGN
  • Human Services Council
  • Labor-Religion Coalition of New York State
  • Citizen Action of NY
  • MoveOn.org
  • Common Cause NY
  • New Bottom Line
  • 350.org
  • Tenants & Neighbors
  • Democracy for NYC
  • Resource Generation
  • Tenants PAC
  • Teachers Unite

Together we will voice our belief that the American dream will live again, that the American way is to help one another succeed. Our voice, our values, will be heard.

Please note: The location of the march has been changed from City Hall to Foley Square.

459 Comments

459 Comments


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[-] 7 points by dredge (15) 2 years ago

DO NOT LISTEN to demands by the media..owned by wallstreet, to declare goals, leadership. Do not let the corporate Political structure dominated by both corrupt parties, to claim us as theirs.

[-] 1 points by goatdude (13) 2 years ago

think for yourself.

[-] 1 points by jcm1027 (32) from Eugene, OR 2 years ago

TRUE THAT!!!

[-] 6 points by sqrltyler (207) 2 years ago

Anyone can join this movement, but no one should be celebrated for doing so. We are The 99%. No single person or group is more important than any other. This is a leaderless movement. It's very easy to tear down a person. It's much harder to tear down an idea. Please be aware that by claiming some of these groups as our's, we are going to eliminate some from joining a movement who's core goals are the same as their own. DO NOT LET THIS BECOME THE LEFT WING TEA PARTY. The entire system is broken. Both sides of the aisle are corrupted by the soft money that gets them elected. We are very naive if we believe the rhetoric that one side is on our side. Just look at Obama's actual policies. They are basically the same as Bush's. We have been divided over fake partisan lines, and we are being conquered. We need to unite as Americans to win our representative government back.

[-] 3 points by AngryJoe (67) 2 years ago

Democrat republican, both have the arms of the same master shoved up their asses...

[-] 2 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

agreed

[-] 2 points by SteveWood (19) from Porum, OK 2 years ago

Spot on. "We are the 99%" says it all. The 99% includes people from across the political spectrum all working toward a government of the people, by the people and for the people.

Each one of us recognize that big money has staged a silent coup by which control has shifted such that the government is now of big money, by big money and for big money. Our concerns are many and diverse, but our common goal is to return control of government to we the 99%. In other words "End control of the government by global banks, corporations and billionaires."

Once that is done, all concerns can be addressed democratically. Until that is done share your concerns but focus on the message "We are the 99%."

[-] 2 points by GammaPoint (400) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

Yep, I totally agree with what you just said.

[-] 1 points by tabneto (4) 2 years ago

FOCUS is essential!

[-] 6 points by nycdaddio (6) 2 years ago

If tomorrow is as big a turnout as I think it will be your biggest problem will be how not to get co-opted by the politicians that are going to smell the votes.First Bernie Sanders(a hero),then David Patterson,then comes Joe Biden smiling , patting people on the back,saying "good job". How do you respond to that scenario? If Obama says some positive things about you and if you don't go after him as hard as anyone else you are toast. We are counting on you. Please have a plan.Expect them.

[-] 2 points by Vicewatch (43) 2 years ago

Maybe the reply to politicians wanting a piece of the spotlight is that the movement is not for sale, and you expect any politician, celebrity or academic endorsing it not to be for sale, either. What would be awesome is to have them pledge in a public statement that any backing and donations made by these folks are given with absolutely no strings attached.

[-] 2 points by jart (1252) from New York, NY 2 years ago

We have every intention of keeping the narrative radical. The entire political establishment caters to moderate and right wing individuals and we will fight tooth and nail against anyone seeking to drown out our voices.

[-] 1 points by Mrcake (27) 2 years ago

Yes expect them, then denouce them, both 2 party system allowed this to happen

[-] 1 points by NinetyNine (24) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Remove any Politician that gives Trillions of dollars to Perpetuate Needless Foreign Wars, Banks, Wall Street, and “Money Laundering” Fake green energy companies. If the energy company is real and has potential, then good, give them money. Don't give money to a company just because the company gives big money to the Politician. The Politician will then blame the company that received the money, sound familiar? The largest criminal is the Politician. Remove the Politicians that vote for, or do nothing to stop this behavior. It is that easy. If they are corrupt, Republican or Democrat, vote them out. Not all Politicans are bad, but enough are. We need to remove the Politicians and not let them play us against each other, so it keeps our attention off their power grabs, using our money. They are trying to distract us off of who is giving our money away, “the Politicians.” Let’s focus on Protesting Washington.

[-] 1 points by NinetyNine (24) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

We should hold the politicians accountable. They have been buying personal power by paying off Wall Street & Banks. Change comes in a Democracy by electing politicians that put their country first and not themselves first. Capitalism provided me with this computer, to communicate without the filter of the government or the elite’s control. It allows me to speak out against political corruption. We need to protest the Politicians that wrote the checks out of our accounts. Not just the people that received the checks. We need to let Washington know it is not ok to write checks out of our accounts. Join us on a march on Washington and the Whitehouse. Let’s show the crooked Politicians how a Democracy works. Politicians are the only electable leaders of this country. Lets remove the bad apples November 2012.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

good points.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

Hold on to your principles, dont be fooled by politicians who are bought by the financial elite. Dont you ever stop fighting for justice, guys. Dont give up, youve started something thats gonna become huge!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtdD42XsLlE

yours s. http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

unions are organizations of workers that look out for other workers whose primary goal is to serve the workers in the union

these people are certainly with in the 99%

[-] 1 points by tf1756 (29) 2 years ago

Not always. Unions are as corrupt as Government.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

the smaller scale would make it harder coerce

[-] 1 points by tf1756 (29) 2 years ago

I was a union steward and a union VP for a local in California years ago for CWA. I witnessed some things that demonstrate how corrupt it was. The first thing they teach you is how to get out of work and use UA time for things not even close to Union business, and get the company to pay for your time. 3 of our locals came close to declaring bankruptcy due to all the money that was spent foolishly, and they managed to get "loans" from other locals to keep the party going. I'm saying be careful who you let in the door. Once they're in, it's hard to make them leave.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

loans have become epidemic I've seen 3 houses in my family lost to foreclosures

[-] 1 points by iknowwhatsbest (3) 2 years ago

Mr. Sanders makes delicious chicken. I will follow him anywhere if he will continue to produce his delicious chicken. BTW - what army is he a colonel of? Just curious.

[-] 1 points by mattymatt (88) from New York, NY 2 years ago

We need to stay true to ourselves and reject the entire current political establishment - I don't want Obama's endorsement and if we receive one because he thinks it will help him win - I suggest a march of those who wish to reject his endorsement. I do like Bernie Sanders though...

[-] 2 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

what is wrong with working with politicians that are receptive to the mission of the people? President Obama is failing not for lack of ideals, but for lack of support for his progressive ideals within the Federal Government...this is why the fourth branch of government, the people, need to voice their convictions and needs. Let us not pretend that becoming President is a simple blessing, or that meting out the various perspectives of constituents is simple. We must ask ourselves not simply what we are against, but what we are for.

[-] 1 points by Mitch333 (93) 2 years ago

Obama is a Wall St puppet..Wall St funded his campaign. Many of these groups ARE the 1% What the heck is going on here?? does ows want to alienate most of this country??

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Can you elaborate?

[-] 1 points by Mitch333 (93) 2 years ago

From what I understand 99% is 99%. For this to really work it must represent the 99% not just whoever voted for Obama and other globalists with a socialist agenda determined to make things WORSE for the 99%.

[-] 1 points by christopherj (77) 2 years ago

Obama hired a great deal of wall st executives that were working for firms that created this mess. Check out a documentary titled, Inside Job. And yes, it’s littered with interviews by top officials, and whistle blowers (people who had a front row seat). http://sites.google.com/site/onecompanyatatime

[-] 1 points by Mitch333 (93) 2 years ago

"hired a great deal of wall st executives.." actually he is their puppet. They all are. I thought this movement was to seize power from the 1% that are running the show??

[-] 1 points by christopherj (77) 2 years ago

Obama being their puppet is one theory that we continue to hear. While I’m one that doesn’t believe the president really runs things (no matter whom it is), that’s just my theory, and like many theories it hasn’t been proven. I’m not in control of this movement and I’m far from a decision maker. Like you, I’m waiting to see what direction it’s going to go. If this movement doesn’t find some direction soon, I’m sorry to say, I think it will fade away, because many people want to see a plan. It also seems like a lot of people are attempting to pull the movement to the right or the left, which would be a huge distraction.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Thank you, I'll watch it, though this is not news, not to mention that Hank Paulsen was in charge well before Obama took office. President Obama has clearly fallen short of his idealism. If We the People want to have change, then we must hold his feet to the fire, as well as our own. If we want shifts in human behavior, it must start with ourselves and how we relate to each other and this has a great deal to do with the kind of work we perform. Admitting that we are not benefiting from the inequity is key...but what's next? Is it sustainable to camp out in NYC? Is it enough to "hate" Wall Street? While the finance industry needs to be recognized for its utter lack of integrity, we ALL must be aware of how we reap rewards for work that have not done, those of us who live in the first world. Yes, President Obama should be called to task, but holding up signs admitting the simple fact that people are without work is old news. The question should not be what are We the People wanting of, but what do we want to work toward? A more equitable division of labor? A policy of preserving natural resources and of minimizing consumption? For those who take delight in declaring that "this is what democracy looks like," keep in mind that this is what has turned people OFF to democracy from since the "birth" of the U.S. This is what democracy looks like when there is an utter breakdown in democracy. Initially someone offered a detailed post about the need for increased representation, Saint-Lague? This is a very valid point. Protection of local industries, cottage industries, businesses that ARE NOT publicly traded, since corporatism has proven to be a destructive economic force and the currency it trades is of dubious value. There is work to be done and the demonstrations are a key symbolic action, but the end goal is to have true peace and prosperity that must address the nonsense production-consumption economic model and the dehumanizing service industry that is the backbone of our economy. Our government is corrupted because it is bolstered by the corrupted business models that feed from it. I want to know what kind of work people would like to be doing to improve the quality of life on earth.

[-] 1 points by christopherj (77) 2 years ago

Funny how people look at things differently, I’m more impressed with detailed documentaries than I am about news and mainstream media, because often the interviewer tosses softball questions and they don’t push hard enough. For those that don’t read or do their own research, it would be hard many times to tell who’s right and who’s wrong because the news usually is too concerned with making sure that everyone is treated fairly (wrong or right). They ask them a question, the response often doesn’t come close to answering the question, and the interviewer moves on to the next question. I’m fully aware that much of this started under Clinton and Bush (long before Obama). The thing that has truly destroyed this country is we now allow our political figures to be purchased (google ALLEC), failing to realize that this is what has crippled the progression of most third world countries. This is why their people have benefited from nothing good that comes out of their government (only the rich has). Even the most honest politician would eventually give in, especially if they see that we (the American public) won’t even stand up for ourselves. I’ll be perfectly honest (call me crazy if you like), If some seriously radical, honest, and powerful political figure (were absolutely 100% for the people and he or she really started fighting to change things) were to become president, I’m not sure they would last too long. If this person didn’t have a bunch of loyal followers, they may even kill them. I agree with a lot of what you stated, but at this point, I don’t believe any Politian can change the wrong in our government with a serious movement behind them and even that individual would need to know that we don’t even trust them 100%. They would need to know that if they ever began to falter, we would get rid of them. This movement does need a plan, and I’m patiently waiting to see if that happens. The documentary (Inside Job) was so detailed and hard hitting the only thing I was wondering was, how did they get some of the people they interviewed to agree to be interviewed. You can tell that many of them were very surprised. I'm not new to this struggle (http://sites.google.com/site/onecompanyatatime) and it's great to at least see something starting to form.

[-] 1 points by tf1756 (29) 2 years ago

Obama is clearly an opportunist, and a money hungry power grabber. he has not helped us middle at all. In fact his relationship with Wall St has made our lives worse. Now, no relationship with Obama

[-] 1 points by mattymatt (88) from New York, NY 2 years ago

President Obama has not fought with the courage of his convictions and if he ever tries to court us - it will just be to win an election and then he can go back to serving corporate interests. He called Wall Street "fat cats" once, they got all offended and he back peddled and hasn't said anything since. I care less about what he believes and more about what he will fight for. - although not sure why people are dinging your post with dislikes... seemed like a reasonable enough post ha

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

President Obama is not acting of his own accord, just as no one would in his position. My post is not about defending poor Mr. President, but about being circumspect. I was listening to Michael Parenti's talk about the real reason that Julius Caesar was murdered by his peers and how it had nothing to do with his egomania, but with his administration of power that undermined that of the landlords (who were also the lawmakers). Apparently, he stopped all rent payments for a year and implemented other reforms that pissed off the people with money and power. President Obama can't be the progressive dictator (or the oppressive one, however you perceive him) and blaming politicians for a broken system is not sufficient, even if they deserve the most blame. We the People cannot hide behind our naivete and pretend that what is lacking in the human condition is not something that we are all potentially guilty of.
If people have a problem with anything, it is the reason that quells passion. Yes, the system is flawed, but it is not simply the banks, the electoral system, the corporate dominance, the abuse and retraction of civil liberties, the consolidation of the media...not just, not only. It's our own personal lack of vision, of willingness to not only contest problems, but to not behave by the rules that do not serve us. I am not going to succumb to the Republican agenda, which is to make sure that people get so fed up with him that they vote him out...nope, not doin' it. If we have learned anything, it is that the President matters the LEAST in terms of decision making. When the last President was in office, Mr. you know who, he is alleged to have proposed a middle income tax break, but was dissuaded to by "his" cabinet. The executive branch surely needs to be reformed, but I will not throw in the towel on our democratic process that has been the ONLY thing keeping this country from descending into total chaos. Sure, let us take charge, but let us be aware of who is intrinsically on our side. When the White House Press Sec. was asked about the President's awareness of the protestors, he said yes, of course he's aware, then immediately said that this is the reason the jobs bill needs to be passed. It's rather condescending and patriarchal. Cannot We the People decide what work needs to be done in our homes, towns and communities? Guaranteed Basic Income! Also, there is a very reasonable gathering in London to discuss ways to free the people and government from the clutches of the banks...there is so much room for We the People to offer constructive criticism and solutions have a natural way of undermining bad ideas. Lighten Up!

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

I awoke early this a.m. and am reflecting on this post, as well as the Democracy Now! feature on yesterday's march and on the influx of organized labor to the demonstration. On one hand, this is great. I stated in the above post hot "our electoral process" is what has kept our country from descending into total chaos." It might have been more accurate if I had said "legislative," but then again, when people took to the streets to protest the move to go to war, indeed, they were ignored by their elected officials and in a very callow manner. If we are going to protest the disingenuous quality of our government, we must recognize that our government is in crisis BECAUSE the economic order and the basic ideals it holds in high esteem, namely wealth accumulation and consolidation, is also in crisis. Only until the U.S. government, along with other governments, can divest from the broken economic system, will they begin to have legitimacy. People become very attached to their roles, their power and their perception of what power is, so much so that it is difficult, but not impossible, to change those perceptions. What has been happening in this country to our electoral process and legislative process is disheartening to the core. We say no war, but there is war and no one wants to admit why they really gave the go-ahead. We say don't give money to the banks, and they give the money to the banks. On the other hand, when Nader was vilified by the Democrats in 2000, he was the victim of scapegoating and the victim of other people's ignorance. All alternate candidates have every right to run and Al Gore was popularly elected...but Bush "won" the electoral vote. Read Greg Palast's work, as it is a must read in understanding the many tiers of corruption and lack of accountability; yes, our government has betrayed the people time and again, regardless of the R or the D next to their name. I find it disturbing, though, that the betrayal is boiled down to the economic factor and the solution is a limited one. Employment has never been the cure all for social unrest, but more often the cause of it. There is a current FTA being debated in Congress now and it's aim is to "open up markets for American made goods." I for one have no interest in being a cog in the globalized, industrial economy, as there is enough stuff to last us many, many lifetimes. What passes for innovation is so similar to the addictive influence of the production-consumption model. It is naive for people to think that a college education intrinsically entitles them to a job. I did not seek education for the purpose of employment, but for the purpose of education, of learning about the world I live in and my place in it. Now that I understand that, I also understand how a job and money are, at best, a means to an end. If we are to realize the principles laid forth in our Constitution, then we must be as intelligent and audacious as our founders, which is no small feat. I believe in independence, not the welfare state, I believe in freedom of choice, not the limited choices of the mass produced industrial model, i believe in the value of the individual, but not the bastardized individualism that is marketed to support the production-consumption model and uphold the status quo therefore. It will take a lot of work to recapture these ideals that are in many ways contrary to human organization. People like conformity, as it implies order, people like work, as it implies progress...but we MUST REDEFINE what work is valuable. Unless we are ready and capable of confronting our own small mindedness and egotism that would cause us to be satisfied by a puny set of powers or a small title, then we will remain at a standstill. We are the 99%, but there is still enough variation of economic experience to make that fact irrelevant. There is so much that needs to be addressed in order to make life worthwhile, not only for U.S. but for people all over the world, particularly in China. Let us not succumb to the puny solutions that will be handed down, like a jobs bill. Does Korea really need American made stuff and are all persons in need of a job ready to consign themselves to the production of those things? It is absurd in its simplicity and lack of innovation of human potential. Insofar as the President being corrupt and opportunistic, these are vague critiques. It's the office that is intrinsically compromised. For those who think that he is the most powerful, you are quite incorrect. Are you familiar with the story of the young British heir to the thrown who implemented sweeping progressive social reforms right after becoming queen...she was beheaded shortly thereafter. I don't blame Obama for not being the sacrificial lamb for the cause of the people and I do perceive him as sympathetic and reasonable. Democracy is not easily administered, it is better lived.

[-] 1 points by tf1756 (29) 2 years ago

The president is not the least in terms of decision making, he is the most powerful of all decision makers.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

that is not accurate.

[-] 1 points by tf1756 (29) 2 years ago

I disagree. In fact, he is the most powerful leader and decision maker in the world. If you are trying to say he's immune from this or an unwilling participant, then you are describing him as a victim. That would make him the most ineffective president ever. But the White House and Wall Street are tied together.

[-] 1 points by ijustliketoprotest (15) from Wilmington, NC 2 years ago

President Obama is an opportunist. Just like those on Wall Street. He got where he is the same way every President and CEO on Wall Street have, by stepping on whomever was in the way. He IS the establishment. An endorsement by him or anyone with similar power (like the CEO of a multi-national corporation) would be an affront to the main point: the establishment is broke and those in charge need to be recycled.

[-] 1 points by flashwitt (3) from Seattle, WA 2 years ago

I disagree that every politician is an opportunist, and I respectfully decline to say whether I think Obama is or is not. The real point is, those politicians who have not been corrupted are SUBJECT to corruption, if only because they too are oppressed. As long as corporations CAN give money to politicians they will do so, and as long as politicians are human, they can be swayed by that power. Conversely, when the power is in the hands of the people, it doesn't really matter what the corporations think- they can hardly pay us ALL to agree with them. Wait. Yes they can. They can pay their taxes just like everyone else, and pay to produce quality services and goods which we, the public may choose to buy. That's not politics. That's free trade. And to think, some of the suits are calling us "dirty hippies" and "commies"!

[-] 1 points by tabneto (4) 2 years ago

Good point!

[-] 1 points by EvanFromHeaven (30) from Boulder, CO 2 years ago

I'd say we should be for 1. FDR's unrealized Economic Bill of Rights http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=effDfpKYcVo 2. direct democracy to KEEP what we win by keeping the people in power. The best project for direct democracy is led by Mike Gravel: http://Vote.org

[-] 1 points by tf1756 (29) 2 years ago

Well, you have aligned yourself with Obama support groups. Might want to take a step back and reconsider some of them.

[-] 1 points by HELP (10) 2 years ago

Exactly! The movement should stay clear of any political party.

[-] 6 points by dredge (15) 2 years ago

Please BEWARE of being Co opted. I am heartened by all the unions supporting you/us...but lets not be tempted into having "leadership" or "a clear message"..lets not let them take over and use the movement to dilute the power of the 99%. How do you destroy a movement? Infiltrate it.

[-] 2 points by Boletus (125) 2 years ago

The more diversity we have, the harder we are to divide.

[-] 2 points by atheve3 (34) 2 years ago

You are absolutely correct!

[-] 1 points by tf1756 (29) 2 years ago

DO NOT let any union or organization on that top list have any voice in the movement. They are greedy and looking for promotion of their agenda by joining. They have motives that are not aligned with OWS

[-] 1 points by iknowwhatsbest (3) 2 years ago

We should have Rev. Jesse Jackson lead this movement. He is well spoken, and black. Also, he lives in NYC. So that would help with his commute.

[-] 2 points by BJS3D (95) from Eugene, OR 2 years ago

Sure, and hand the movement over to fundamentalists and religious fanaticism. A speaker, supporter sure... but not a leader to represent the issues.

[-] 2 points by tf1756 (29) 2 years ago

exactly, I could not agree with you more

[-] 1 points by tabneto (4) 2 years ago

Yes, 99%!

[-] 1 points by kestrel (274) 2 years ago

the co-option is done.... its the unions show now.

[-] 1 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

The unions are 'us.' Or the should be. Can't be co-opted by the grassroots.

[-] 1 points by kestrel (274) 2 years ago

Trust me... the union leaders are in the 1% LOL its all a reelection rally!

[-] 3 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

Humans are messy and democracy is a process not an end result. But, and this is a big thing... calling unions the problem or talking about union leaders as if they are all one way is part of corporate propaganda. Some unions are great, some good, some corrupt... but the idea of unions is the idea of balancing power for the 99%. Throw-away lines about unions being bad are buying the corporate propaganda machine.

[-] 1 points by readytogo (80) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

I think the good thing about the Unions joining is it damages the effort to make this seem like a freak, radical, anarchist movement. It validates us without us having to subscribe to their demands. We can support them, they can support us, but we can remain independent. It seems nonsensical to insist on immediate, focused demands when people are just starting to come together and unite. We needed to come out and gather first, then we can start the work of finding common ground and discussing goals.

[-] 1 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

Absolutely agreed that this clamoring for a list of "demands" right now, is non-sensical... I have said, and am sure that many others have also, that what is important is that people have taken the initiative and that in time things will begin to coalesce. There is much work to be done.

[-] 1 points by tabneto (4) 2 years ago

Very good!

[-] 1 points by Boletus (125) 2 years ago

Spot on

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

agreed

[-] 0 points by tf1756 (29) 2 years ago

Unions have an agenda that does not align with the OWS. Be forewarned. They are not here to help, they are here to take over

[-] 1 points by oldguy (17) from Oakley, MI 2 years ago

Wrong answer ows is for better conditions for the middle class, same as unions.

[-] 1 points by tf1756 (29) 2 years ago

You must be a union officer. Most union members kind of know otherwise

[-] 1 points by oldguy (17) from Oakley, MI 2 years ago

in my career i was a union member for all of 3 months. Never held office of any sort.

[-] 1 points by oldguy (17) from Oakley, MI 2 years ago

Many in the 1% support us. Buffet comes to mind. The unions support ows and all middle class in this country. Matter of fact, pro sports stars are mostly in the 1% and are also union members.

[-] 1 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

Yes, but I don't fully trust them.

[-] 1 points by BJS3D (95) from Eugene, OR 2 years ago

I have no doubt that Union leaders have an underlying agenda. By standing, as they do, with the "little guy" in defense, they gain power and revenue. It wouldn't hurt them at all to side with this movement to save face and to ensure union dues. However, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"... for a discretionary length of time.

Unions are very powerful, very successful tools at the negotiating table. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss their value.

[-] 1 points by steveng39 (2) 2 years ago

a "clear message" is the point of protest/ movement. otherwise youre just complaining.

[-] 0 points by pkphilip (2) 2 years ago

The Occupy Wall Street protests need a clear message. Without it, the movement will dissipate. People won't see progress because there won't be a clear way of indicating progress. We will just be a bunch of disenchanted people - going nowhere.. fast.

[-] 1 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

There is a pretty clear message and that has been voice by numerous posts here...such as the one by SteveWood, etc. Disarm the Oligarchy

[-] 1 points by SteveWood (19) from Porum, OK 2 years ago

The clear message is "End control of the government by global banks, corporations and billionaires." as summed up by "We are the 99%". If you see that the media is too dumb to make that connection contact them and explain it.

The 99% includes people from across the political spectrum all working toward a government of the people, by the people and for the people. They have a plethora of concerns but one common principle.

Each one of us recognize that big money has staged a silent coup by which control has shifted such that the government is now of big money, by big money and for big money. Our concerns are many and diverse, but our common goal is to return control of government to we the 99%.

Once that is done, all concerns can be addressed democratically. Until that is done share your concerns but focus on the message "We are the 99%." or if that is not clear enough go with "End control of the government by global banks, corporations and billionaires."

[-] 1 points by stevenv (3) from Orlando, FL 2 years ago

That's what seems to have happened to the 15M movement in Spain: no clear message, just noise and "indignation". They dissipated a few weeks ago.

[-] 3 points by oldguy (17) from Oakley, MI 2 years ago

You folks are starting to get some decent coverage on CNN this morning. Carry on, carry on !

[-] 3 points by How (3) 2 years ago

be wary of any donations that come with strings.

[-] 3 points by ghost1love (35) 2 years ago

The day must come when we march from Union Square. To bind the radical symbolism embodied in THAT site with the radical change we want to see. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:May_Day_%2713,_strikers_in_Union_Square_-_19130501.jpg

ALSO: May the blood and spirit of RESISTANCE of all the Africans buried below Foley Square fuel the occupation to dispel the neo-colonial financial imperialism of the corporate elite. Let us mark that we recognize this significance! http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_things_to_do/attractions/public_art/monuments/african_american_experience/images/foley_square_medallion.jpg

Viva La RevolucioN!

[-] 2 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

Bien dicho!

[-] 2 points by tf1756 (29) 2 years ago

It's a mixed message. I thought OWS was going to remain non-partisan. And you cannot be friends with moveon.org, Obama or any Wall Street puppet. if you are going to send a message you must not compromise. Now re-do the mission statement. or you will look foolish for defending and aligning yourself with the group that is making this country worse. make the correction so I can support you. You listed many groups that rely on wall st funding. Change it

[-] 2 points by HELP (10) 2 years ago

It's getting bigger every day.Keep up the good work The REVOLUTION has just begun! WE ARE THE 99%!

[-] 2 points by whiteraven (2) 2 years ago

Liberty Square may also be considered to be a Temporary Autonomous Zone set up by the protestors. Brutal winter weather may win out on that location, but I doubt if it will quell the this movement. Temporary Zones can be set up anywhere. We are mobile. If not Liberty Park, which was not the original location,any place will work. This revolt will take more than a season or two, to be sure. It will take possibly some years. I'm also worried about the movement being co-opted by the "cult of personality" mentality that exists in the psyches of Americans, The idolization and glorifying of the rich and famous, with their clothing lines made by outsourced slave labor, the perpetuation of violent images in movies which does a lot to teach children to use violence, massive elite and wasteful consumerism-expensive cars, houses nearly worth a half a billion dollars, and all the exploitation that they maintain to insure the continuation of what I can only call "image pollution" in a world where images are taken at face value, e.g., Tom Hanks as the countries' most famous war hero. A lot of these values are etched in the public psyche in rather insidious ways and only serve to keep the manufactured consensus of mindless status quo compliance going. Investment bankers like Richard Simmons, Bono (who never seems to miss an IMF outing) Sarandon, Paterson, and Biden (?). These folks have been around for a long time and glutted with wealth and fame and they haven't made any major overtures toward creating any kind of movement of opposition. I hope I am wrong and that common sense, intelligence, and reason will prevail. On the other hand, one can either suffer unduly while doing a job or you can have a little fun while you're at it. The seriousness of dangers up ahead will surface (like last week on the B'klyn Bridge and the Union Square incident) will continually raise its head. Today is a sunny day and a great day to rock city hall. Peace.

[-] 2 points by sqrltyler (207) 2 years ago

I have been a political blogger for years, and I need to get this point across:

I am watching the media constantly associate this movement with "Michael Moore, The AFL-CIO, MoveOn.org, ect...". Now I have no problem with these groups or people standing in solidarity with The 99%, but you have to understand something: The media uses these groups/people as "triggers" to turn "conservatives" away from any idea, or cause that they support. This is a way that the 1% keep us divided, and they are absolute pros at psych op language.

We must extremely careful about announcing ANY association beyond that of The 99%. Anyone is invited, but no one should be celebrated for joining our cause. I am already watching the media successfully turn Americans who would join us against us, by the very use of these triggers.

Our power is in our numbers, and we're going to need Americans across the political spectrum to achieve our goals. This is NOT a "Liberal Uprising" as the media is attempting to paint us as. We are The 99%!

Please don't give them ammunition to marginalize this movement.

[-] 2 points by SteveWood (19) from Porum, OK 2 years ago

The clear message is "End control of the government by global banks, corporations and billionaires." as summed up by "We are the 99%". If you see that the media is too dumb to make that connection contact them and explain it. It's a good thing when the opposition doesn't make the connection and remains confused.

The 99% includes people from across the political spectrum all working toward a government of the people, by the people and for the people. They have a plethora of concerns but one guiding principle.

Each one of us recognize that big money has staged a silent coup by which control has shifted such that the government is now of big money, by big money and for big money. If you don't believe that's correct go down to the square and start asking each individual you meet. Our concerns are many and diverse, but our common goal is to return control of government to we the 99%.

Once that is done, all concerns can be addressed democratically. Until that is done share your concerns but focus on the message "We are the 99%." or if that is not clear enough go with "End control of the government by global banks, corporations and billionaires."

[-] 1 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

Agreed!

[-] 2 points by vamptvo (5) 2 years ago

I know lots of folks on here have already said this, but I just want to add my voice in to make it even more clear: Do NOT allow these liberal groups to infiltrate your movement. Always remember that unions and groups like MoveOn.org are little more than extensions of the Democratic Party, and even if their individual members might support your actual principles, as organizations they will do their best to fit you into their idea of a pro-Obama liberal protest.

This cannot be stressed enough: Do NOT become the Liberal Tea Party! If Obama supports you, continue to criticize his failures to help the middle class. And, conversely, if Republicans somehow support you, do not let up your push against them. Letting down your guard for even a moment will allow this whole movement to fall back into the rut of tit-for-tat two-party politics. Organizations and institutions, no matter their affiliation, are not your friends, as they will all drag you back into the world that you are trying to avoid. Accept the help of their individual members, but reject the help of the organizations themselves.

We cannot afford to lose this fight.

[-] 2 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

The Tea Party is funded by the corporate elite. That is MUCH different than this protest.

[-] 1 points by LibertyFirst (325) 2 years ago

They didn't start out that way. vamptvo is right. If you think the 'corporate elite' are made up of only republicans, you need to do a lot more studying. The left/right divide is a false dichotomy, meant to keep everyone fighting about policy while the puppet masters keep supplying the 'candidates' on BOTH sides of the aisle. They are masters of psy ops. They don't care who you vote for, because they own both parties. What they say publicly is just window dressing to entice you to believe they will change something. Ask yourself why corporations have only gained more and more power over the past 50 years, during which time BOTH parties have had control. You need to get the corporations out of politics. Until then, you're just choosing different puppets, all controlled by the same puppet masters.

[-] 2 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

Exactly. I am surprised at how many people did not know about the Obama/Goldman Sachs connection.

[-] 2 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I never said the corporate elite is only made up of Republicans, did I? I just stated how the Tea Party is funded. Is it not a fact that it is funded by extremist right wing corporations like Koch Industries, just to name one?

One thing is very clear, and that is that unions represent WORKERS (even if some are corrupt), but corporations DO NOT REPRESENT WORKERS.

[-] 0 points by tf1756 (29) 2 years ago

TeaParty is made up of workers, teachers, factory workers, small business owners, students, mothers, fathers, etc. They are all middle to lower middle class. They receive no funding to march. They bankroll themselves. The paid to put their kids through college by working overtime, they gave up the extras in life to have peace of mind. They grow their food in raise bed gardens, drive 10 year old cars as it's all the can afford, shop at the Good Will, volunteer in soup kitchens, run womens shelters, are prison guards, nurses, firemen, run animal rescue volunteer groups, are the docents at museums working for nothing. These are your TeaParty members. They are not the Koch Brothers. This has got to stop. This is how the left divides the nations through propaganda, the same propaganda Goebbels used in Germany. Stop the madness, and realize that the TeaParty are working people, who have less than you do

[-] 1 points by oldguy (17) from Oakley, MI 2 years ago

Doesn't really matter who the tea party is made up of. They are all just pawns for the Koch brothers and Art Pope. See New Yorker Mag.

[-] 1 points by tf1756 (29) 2 years ago

negative

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20002529-503544.html

Your opinion seems to be wrong, according to the reports on the Tea Party members. Conservative and ultra-conservative, religious, mostly white, mostly male, more wealthy doesn't accurately describe the average American citizen.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Really?

"Membership and demographics

Several polls have been conducted on the demographics of the movement. Though the various polls sometimes turn up slightly different results, they tend to show that Tea Party supporters are mainly white and slightly more likely to be male, married, older than 45, more conservative than the general population, and likely to be more wealthy and have more education.[76][77][78][79][80] A Gallup poll conducted in March 2010 found that -- other than gender, income and politics -- self-described Tea Party members were demographically similar to the population as a whole.[81] When surveying supporters or participants of the Tea Party movement, polls have shown that they are to a very great extent more likely to be registered Republican, have a favorable opinion of the Republican Party and an unfavorable opinion of the Democratic Party.[80][82][83] The Bloomberg National Poll of adults 18 and over showed that 40% of Tea Party supporters are 55 or older, compared with 32% of all poll respondents; 79% are white, 61% are men and 44% identify as "born-again Christians",[84] compared with 75%,[85] 48.5%,[86] and 34%[87] for the general population, respectively."

[-] 1 points by tf1756 (29) 2 years ago

Got anything other than cut and paste. Thanks for the reply, now attent a tparty meeting and see for yourself. Peace

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

No, thanks. I'm not interested in attending "meetings" where people tote guns, talk about how they will tell others how they can or can't live, support crazy ass people posing as legislators, etc.

[-] 1 points by tf1756 (29) 2 years ago

So you reject the democrat party then

[-] 0 points by LibertyFirst (325) 2 years ago

Chill, SwissMiss--no need to get all testy. I'm not arguing about the funding of the Tea Party, I'm just suggesting that you open your eyes to the fact that the elite control both parties.

You might also want to look into union leadership a bit more closely and see who they are in bed with. It's very enlightening.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

And I was pointing out that my comment was about the Tea Party as compared to this movement, commenting on vamptvo's comment. I never made any mention at all of corporate interests being only on the right. I was being specific to vamptvo's comment.

Please don't call me "testy" when I justify my comments and refute what you are saying. I never mentioned anything about right and left.

[-] 1 points by LibertyFirst (325) 2 years ago

I don't know what you think you are refuting. I haven't defended the Tea Party nor made any claims about their funding. vamptvo was trying to point out, and I concur, that being infiltrated is a risk to this movement, not just right wing movements. The elite is on both sides of the aisle and that means that this movement is also susceptible to infiltration, just like the Tea Party.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

You accused me of saying the corporate elite is made up of only Republicans. THAT is what I am refuting. You said, "If you think the 'corporate elite' are made up of only republicans, you need to do a lot more studying." Where in my statement about the Tea Party being funded by corporations is there ANYTHING about the corporate elite only being made up of Republicans????

I don't think that is hard to comprehend.... what I'm refuting.

[-] 1 points by LibertyFirst (325) 2 years ago

I didn't accuse you of anything. I said "IF you think....."

Your statement: "The Tea Party is funded by the corporate elite. That is MUCH different from this movement." suggests that you missed vamptvo's point--the Tea Party was usurped by the elite--it didn't start out as an elite funded movement. This movement, and any other movement, runs the risk of being usurped by the elite in the same way. It is a common tactic they use. That's the whole point of my post as well as vamptvo's and sqrltyler's.

Please try not to be so hostile.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Please QUIT accusing me of being hostile and testy. Just because I'm calling you out on something that I never said DOESN'T mean I'm being hostile. I'm trying to point out that you shouldn't be accusing people of saying things they didn't say..... that's all.

When you say to someone, "If you think this...... " it's very accusatory. It's stating that you have the idea that I think whatever it is you said, when I never said it.

[-] 1 points by LibertyFirst (325) 2 years ago

You're right. I shouldn't have used the word "if". Clearly you are the one who has been most kind and civilized in this conversation.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Show me where I have been uncivilized with my comments (I'm assuming you're being sarcastic, and maybe I'm wrong about that, but I'll go out on a limb).

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

The Tea Party was founded in February of 2009. Its first national protest/rally was on February 19. This started just after Obama took office. I HIGHLY doubt it started out as a grass roots movement. And, it has been opposed to the Obama administration from the beginning.

"The movement began when CNBC's Rick Santelli called from the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange for a bankers' revolt against the undeserving poor. (He proposed that the traders should hold a tea party to dump derivative securities in Lake Michigan to prevent Obama's plan to "subsidise the losers": by which he meant people whose mortgages had fallen into arrears.) On the same day, Americans for Prosperity set up a Tea Party Facebook page and started organising Tea Party events.

Oldham's film shows how AFP crafted the movement's messages and drafted its talking points. The New Yorker magazine, in the course of a remarkable exposure of the Koch brothers' funding networks, interviewed some of their former consultants. "The Koch brothers gave the money that founded [the Tea Party]," one of them explained. "It's like they put the seeds in the ground. Then the rainstorm comes, and the frogs come out of the mud – and they're our candidates!" Another observed that the Kochs are smart. "This rightwing, redneck stuff works for them. They see this as a way to get things done without getting dirty themselves."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/oct/25/tea-party-koch-brothers

[-] 1 points by tf1756 (29) 2 years ago

Sounds like a conspiracy. Do you think Bush did 9/11 also? Sorry, it's just funny

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I got the point.

And "if" is an accusation.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

And many of the people who have been protesting ARE union members and workers.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

The NYC Transportation Workers Union members voted unanimously to support and join the OWS protest. That means the WORKERS themselves are supporting it. That's MUCH different than a corporation brainwashing people and bribing them to carry out their criminal and inhumane activities.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I totally agree that corporations need to be booted out of politics.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

The affiliation with unions is about WORKERS RIGHTS.... not about Obama. The reasons unions exist is because of abuse workers endured at the hands of their employers.... one of the things this protest is about. Please keep the politics out of it.

[-] 2 points by AaronW (12) 2 years ago

I believe this to be a mistake. As hinted at in other comments, all of these groups have distinct agendas, some of which are at odds with each other.

I offer a bit of wisdom, adjusted to fit this movement's goals, from a massively successful, 75 year-old movement that has managed to stay true to it's roots since the outset: "The Other 99% is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problems and help others to do so. The only requirement for membership is a desire to be of service. There are no dues or fees for membership; we are self supporting through our own contributions. The Other 99% is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution. Our primary purpose is to let voices to the people be heard."

[-] 2 points by fighton (15) 2 years ago

How will the Occupy Wall Street Movement end? Just like many others before it i.e. grow, peak, decline and finally, dead. We have seen this all before. Remember the protests against the Iraq War? They were big, they were worldwide. But they did not stop the war. Finally they just ended dead, much earlier than any of the soldiers who fought there.

Protesters in less developed part of the world like Tunisia, Egypt and Libya resulted in the overthrowing of the systems there. Why can't it happen in America? Because we are Americans. This Occupy Wall Street protests, like others before them, are symptomatic of the ill afflicting America as a whole. They manifest the easy-going, fun-loving nature of we Americans. This was not how we started. It evolves over several generations of prosperous life-styles. Most of us are in the protests for the fun of it. Now that it has caught the attention of the media, more will vie to be in the publicity, wanting to been seen nationwide, in fact, worldwide.

How much are the protesters willing to sacrifice for the movement? How many will camp in the open when winter comes? How many more will continue throughout the winter? I believe "Occupy Wall Street" will not require any harsh action by the authority to put an end to it. The coming winter will. The harsher the winter, the faster this will happen. Compare this with the Arab Spring where people are willing to put their lives on the line. Unless these protesters of Occupy Wall Street have the same spirit of sacrifice as the Tunisians, Egyptians and Libyans, the whole movement will a "much ado about nothing".

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

And many protests HAVE worked throughout history. Women still wouldn't be voting if the brave women who fought for our right to vote wouldn't have been so tough and if they would've given up.

[-] 1 points by knowltz (5) 2 years ago

Everyone votes for a dictator.

[-] 1 points by AWESOMEROBOT (32) from Fayetteville, AR 2 years ago

I can understand this logic, but as a person who truly believes in the power of we, I will refrain from thinking negatively, and will give everything of myself until it seems unreasonable for me to do so.

[-] 1 points by Cafree (80) 2 years ago

I agree. We cannot focus on what may, or might happen or movements that some consider failed. There have been movements here that accomplished a lot. When you look at them you'll see that it did not happen in an instant, in a week, a month or a year. This takes dedication and I think we've got what it takes.

[-] 0 points by knowltz (5) 2 years ago

"Protesters in less developed part of the world like Tunisia, Egypt and Libya resulted in the overthrowing of the systems there"

I think you are misinformed. It was a populist movement of dissent against those administrations and the policies, but was catapulted thanks to the investment of Western-backed intelligence organizations to create instability in the region to make them easier to control.

What is the end result? A military controlled Egypt, and a Libya that has been bombed back a few decades thanks to NATO and our tax dollars.

Who are you people? So ignorant of the geopolitical realities of the world, and yet want to reform the economic system!? Good luck.....

[-] 0 points by dredge (15) 2 years ago

It is a beginning. Trust. Once you panic about the future you've given in to fear which is precisely the problem with our society since 9/11. The 1% wants us to be afraid so we will accept anything they do to us.

[-] 2 points by Dewey (19) 2 years ago

You are right this is just the beginning. I only came across the protest I think, ten days ago via the Guardian UK. Look where it is now. The corrupt global market forces machinery is about to fall. No doubt there will be tough times ahead for many of us (remember that millions on the planet go without the basic necessities as it is). There will be a realization that we are "one people" on this planet and that to have any future there needs to be drastic changes just to offset the environmental degradation. All systems work within natures law. When economic and environmental conditions are out of balance there are consequences. As we are witnessing today. Wise men and women will come to the forefront with new ideas that galvanize citizens of the planet. We will be our brothers/sisters keeper. Be hopeful, take action.

[-] 1 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

I accidently clicked on the down arrow, sorry. I agree with you 100%

[-] 2 points by atheve3 (34) 2 years ago

Thank god solidarity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I stand with you!

[-] 2 points by juandelacruz (5) 2 years ago

There is still a missing link here. The third world countries are the haven for the stronghold of extraction of the surplus capital and profit by the corporations. Occupy wall street should link up to the third world countries in order to establish the unity of all workers.

[-] 2 points by atheve3 (34) 2 years ago

U r so right. That would make for a real world improvement for opportunity.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Great idea.

[-] 2 points by dredge (15) 2 years ago

thank you.

[-] 2 points by PartOf99 (5) 2 years ago

That feel when Unions are part of the problem.

And you people wonder why jobs are going overseas and more people are getting fired.

[-] 2 points by Ddrogbasw6 (3) 2 years ago

History of Foley Square for those who don't know: http://maap.columbia.edu/place/6.html

[-] 1 points by readytogo (80) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Yes, thank you for the link. It will make the march even more meaningful for us.

[-] 1 points by AmericanRevolutionary (2) from Wheatley Heights, NY 2 years ago

Thanks for that link brother!

[-] 2 points by RG32 (81) 2 years ago

Where the fuck did that list come from? This is going to fuck it up for OWS. We are individuals, not a bunch of fucking special interest groups.

You guys are a bunch of idiots. Don't ruin it for the rest of us by cozying up with special interest groups. Is this already Obama controlled? You have to be kidding.

[-] 3 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

It's 1% propaganda from big corporations and anti-union consultants that unions are "special interests." That's BS. Unions are supposed to be the democratic voice of workers. Is it always perfect? Of course not. But the union movement is anchor around the world of democratic advocacy. Criticize a union if it is undemocratic, but don't call the labor movement a special interest.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

agreed

[-] 2 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

Yeah that's a huge group

[-] 2 points by Wyseguy (9) 2 years ago

Wow.. way to co-opt and brand a movement under the liberial label alone. 99%? How about divide and conquer for big O's re-election

[-] 2 points by AWESOMEROBOT (32) from Fayetteville, AR 2 years ago

I'm sure if conservatives wanted to march, no one would tell them no.

[-] 3 points by RG32 (81) 2 years ago

They can march. But why do they have to be recognized? It's about the people, not their stupid fucking union or special interest group. Fuck that.

[-] 7 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

Just an FYI... but don't buy the corporate bullshit about unions. Unions are not "special interests" they are democratic (hopefully) elected representatives of workers at a workplace. Just like a city council, some times they are better sometimes worse... but calling unions special interests is completely 1% propaganda.

[-] 4 points by RG32 (81) 2 years ago

It's a co-opt/hijack by the Left. I don't agree 100% with what you just said about unions, but it is irrelevant. It affiliates the movement with a political party which is going to be devastating. It is exactly what the Establishment wants and the way the corporate media is already spinning OWS. The result will be more of the same. Don't be tricked by the left/right, Democrat/Republican paradigm. It is fake. They are all the same. They have proven that. Don't you think there are a lot of capitalists out there (business owners, professionals, etc.) who are sick and tired of the Fed, Wall Street corruption, and both political parties which have been bought off? This is a big mistake. These organizations don't have to be acknowledged. The exact same thing happened with the Tea Party and the Republicans. Now every fucking Republican Establishment hack is putting himself out there as a "Tea Partier."

[-] 3 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

I agree with your fear about getting sucked into alignment with "liberals" (the mainstream, essentially right-wing corporate democrats). But, without unions, without workers, there is no opposition that can have any hope of cracking the 1% hold on this country and world. We've got to bring unions away from the Democrates and back to democracy, not bring us towards the Dems. But there's no way forward without workplace democracy and organizing (unions).

[-] 3 points by RG32 (81) 2 years ago

We are just going to have to agree to disagree here. I am all for the unions getting a fair shake. But I don't think it should become OWS (sponsored by the AFL-CIO).

The media will have a field day with this and then they will turn the people who watch that shit against us, when in fact we are protesting against a lot of the things they also agree are big problems.

[-] 3 points by mattymatt (88) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I completely agree with your hesitance about OWS aligning with these groups and getting co-opted and neutralized. (However, I do agree with Joehill about unions because they are to me, precisely what the 99% is, average working people fighting to maintain the fairest share possible) Particularly, lobbying groups like moveon.org worry me because they will attempt to woo us by giving us exposure and launching us into the spotlight but will try to harness whatever power we generate in the meantime. This will probably be just the first in a series of tests for the movement. I think if we all stay cognizant of this we can prevent it, and remain a group which represents the 99%. WE ARE THE 99%.

[-] 2 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

Fair enough. We should not let any formal group take over the OWS. But we can't avoid allies in order to court a media that is going to bs regardless... neither unions nor OWS should be a right/left thing.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

The workers represented by those unions ARE THE ONES WHO WANT TO SUPPORT THE OWS. It was voted unanimously by WORKING MEMBERS of the NYC Transportation Workers union to support this movement. How is THAT a special interest group, when the working members VOTED to support this movement, because they ARE the 99%, and this ALSO is ABOUT THEM????

[-] 1 points by RP2012 (86) 2 years ago

RG32 is speakin truth!

[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 2 years ago

A coopt? There is no hijack by the left.

[-] 1 points by RP2012 (86) 2 years ago

It is to say that Unions are only left, and never right, and by teaming up with OWS that is exactly what will be portrayed in the media.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

The workers represented by those unions ARE THE ONES WHO WANT TO SUPPORT THE OWS. It was voted unanimously by WORKING MEMBERS of the NYC Transportation Workers union to support this movement. How is THAT a special interest group, when the working members VOTED to support this movement, because they ARE the 99%, and this ALSO is ABOUT THEM????

[-] 3 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

Thank you for attempting to dispel this myth.

[-] 3 points by LoTek (53) 2 years ago

Agreed.

[-] 1 points by Peter1 (55) 2 years ago

Yeah, right. If unions aren't special interest groups, why do they pour so much money into elections? In fact, 12 of the 18 biggest campaign contributors are unions: http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

Notice that city councils aren't contributing to campaigns.

[-] 1 points by kestrel (274) 2 years ago

I'm not sure you would call the leaders democratically elected, unless of course, the unions really do want to vote for a hoffa over and over again.

[-] 1 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

Some unions, like any institution or collective process, become corrupt. Check out Teamsters for a Democratic Union (TDU). Everywhere there are people working for a better day.

[-] 1 points by RP2012 (86) 2 years ago

Unions are good and bad. Again, it comes to who's running things and their level of genuineness.

[-] 1 points by VindicatedVigilante (176) from Fort Worth, TX 2 years ago

Unions are by definition a special interest. Anytime you have a group of people who gather toward a particular end, you have special interest. Extreme care needs to be taken when dealing with any special interest.

[-] 2 points by RP2012 (86) 2 years ago

Its true. Unions are good when protecting employees but, when they start telling people how to vote only because it will benefit the union members but, not all people, that is where I draw the line with unions. Self, or special interest, is how that can be categorized.

[-] 2 points by phoenix60 (26) 2 years ago

Following on from this analogy then, governments are special interest groups representing corporate needs. Indeed, extreme care needs to be taken.

[-] 1 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

I think this confuses the corrupted form with the idea. Would you give up on democracy because North Korea uses the word in their name? All institutions can be corrupted, even protest movements.... but to say that unions (the idea) are special interests is strange (and totally buying corporate branding). We need unions, the idea is democracy in the economy. The fight is to make more things fair, transparent, and democratic.

[-] 1 points by phoenix60 (26) 2 years ago

Yes, I'd agree here. My comment was perhaps a little too general and mapped the whole spectrum of democratic experience on to the present western situation, where government has become a corporate playground. Certainly, unions are necessary, if only to provide a solid counterweight to corporate interests in the name of its members. Branding them "special interest" groups is a linguistic way of isolating them in a social perspective. Nobody calls companies "special interest groups", even though they represent a very small number of people (owners/shareholders/management) who are out to push their own agendas.

[-] 1 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

Agreed!

[-] 1 points by RP2012 (86) 2 years ago

That is correct. Govt is a special interest and when corrupted it represents corporate needs, not the needs of the people.

[-] 1 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

If unions are a special interest than democracy is a special interest. As the term is commonly used, special interest, is a way that people denigrate a small group for having only their own self interest in mind in their actions. The oil company lobby is a special interest. Unions, by their very definition, are about representing all workers. They are a process for economic democracy. Calling them a special interest buys corporate propaganda that creates a false comparison between the 1% on the one hand and the 99% on the other. It's not just two sides, one is people, everyone. Unions are part of the everyone, not the 1%. They are a mechanism for individuals to organize against special interests. Criticize individual problem behavior by any institution, but don't confuse the labor movement with special interests.

[-] 1 points by VindicatedVigilante (176) from Fort Worth, TX 2 years ago

The issue we are having here is a bit of a semantic one. Special interest is not necessary a bad thing. However the one thing universal about special interest is the use of power, whether by numbers, wealth or otherwise, to "lobby" movements, governments, etc, etc. Because of this they need to be dealt with, with great care.

[-] 1 points by AWESOMEROBOT (32) from Fayetteville, AR 2 years ago

I completely agree with you. This may overshadow the cause. I do not subscribe to either side, as I believe there are more than just two.
I'm in this for the betterment of our country and it's people. When I see things like this, I feel as though this will better nothing but their particular causes. If these people believed in solidarity and true change, they would abandon these group names and just go by We the People.

[-] 1 points by Rajita (2) 2 years ago

It would be nice to see an increase of politically diverse parties. Honestly, It looks like the neutral middle has climbed steadily to the left to provide America with what looks like an array of choices...but all sitting on the left side of the scale. That's not right. That's not a true democracy.

[-] 1 points by AWESOMEROBOT (32) from Fayetteville, AR 2 years ago

True Democracy is idealism, but Almost True Democracy can be accomplished. The party system has got to go. The People system has to return.

[-] 1 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

I think your fear is legitimate and understandable... but the labor movement is not a "side" it's workers. The whole point is democracy, which is a gritty, difficult, long haul thing to struggle for. Unions, good, bad, and whatever, have been struggling for freedom for people for 150+ years. Not a special interest.

[-] 1 points by AWESOMEROBOT (32) from Fayetteville, AR 2 years ago

I was talking about Liberal vs Conservative in the first part. I can get behind a union, as I understand that the power of the union lies in its members. But this isn't about unions, this is, from my understanding, about change and social justice.

[-] 2 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

Unions are, have been and always will be, about social justice. Are you not aware of the history of labor in this country??

[-] 2 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Exactly. Why do people think workers in underdeveloped countries try to form unions and the employers try to stop them from doing so? It's because the workers are being taken advantage of in a big way, and the employers that are guilty want no part of letting the workers have a say.

[-] 1 points by AWESOMEROBOT (32) from Fayetteville, AR 2 years ago

I am well aware of the history of labor and unionization, and I am not opposed to unions. Different unions are responsible for their fair share of decisions that prevent social justice (E.g. Wisconsin). But, you can say that about anything. This is not an argument of what unions are responsible for or what they believe. This is about the union's ability to overshadow the cause of our movement and the possibility of theft of free and independent thought. Large groups of people led by small groups of people tend to all vote one way or the other, thus creating a mass on one side of an opinion by leaders "guiding" the under-educated or financially trapped members to a vote that they may or may not agree with. This limits the voting power of the non unionized individual. My vote counts for 1, the union votes count for thousands. That is not true Democracy. I personally do not believe in some of the things that have popped up on the OWS Official Demands page, but, at this time, I feel as though all of our votes are equal. As of yet, I am not afraid of a group of affiliated voting members, larger or smaller than me, voting in mass numbers to lift one idea or opinion to an unfair advantage to increase their social status or economic gain.

[-] 1 points by LibertyFirst (325) 2 years ago

Tyranny of the majority--exactly what democracy is supposed to protect against. I agree, the movement must be wary of giving power to any organized groups, including unions.
My suggestion is that the movement have a laser focus on one and only one issue: Restoring the government to the people. Right now, we don't have a democracy, we have a corporate oligarchy. If this is changed and true democracy restored, all of the policy issues can be settled later, as they should be via the democratic process. Unless and until corporate influence is removed from government, the movement has no chance of changing anything--you are asking the corrupt 1% that is in power to change themselves. That's not going to happen. Forget about all the policy issues (taxation, student loans etc). Returning government to the people is the means by which you accomplish everything else, and it is the ONLY way it will be accomplished. Moreover, picking sides on policies will only alienate people. The 99% are never going to agree on policy. Strength in numbers is the only power the movement has--don't diminish that by creating policy divides. Get corporations out fo government, return the power to the people and then move on with democracy to settle everything else.

[-] 1 points by Jolibear (47) from Greenfield, MA 2 years ago

What does it mean to return the government to the people? I would like to know more about what you envision that as being.

[-] 1 points by LibertyFirst (325) 2 years ago

I would like to see corporate influence removed from Washington. Right now, big corporations provide the money to get politicians elected, they lobby congress people incessantly to push their agendas and even 'helpfully' write the bills for them, assuring the laws favor the big corps. There is also a "revolving door" between corporations and the regulatory agencies. That is to say, the regulators who are appointed come straight form the industries they are supposed to regulate, and go right back to them when their term is up. As you might expect, this ensures that regulations favor their former employers and/or that regulations are not enforced as they should be. When a regulator has fished their term of 'public service' those who have done big favors for the corps are rewarded with nice cushy jobs in the corporations they (didn't) regulate. It's called "Regulatory capture" and it is astounding the degree to which this goes on in Washington.

If we end this influence, then what do politicians need to do to get elected/reelected? Instead of serving the corporations, they would need to serve the people or be voted out. This is how our system was intended to work, but the people no longer have a voice because the corporations have bought off our representatives and the regulators they appoint.

I hope that helps clarify.

[-] 1 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

Just my opinion... but I don't think there will ever be a day where this is not a constant struggle. I agree with you about the danger. I think we just have to fight it every day. We have to fight to have individuals educated, confident, and collectively supportive of each other enough to fight cliques, nepotism, and all the other seeds of "leadership" that undercut freedom over time. That fight can take place within the unions as well, and should be. It'll certainly take place in OWS if the protests grow.

[-] 1 points by AWESOMEROBOT (32) from Fayetteville, AR 2 years ago

You're completely right. My statement is 100% idealism. True democracy will never exist, that is until we live in that movie Logan's run (because no one would care and we would all die at 21). The movement will grow, unions will help the growth. But it is frightening that we may oust one small group of people who run things just to bring in another. But then again, it could be the best thing that has ever happened, ever.

[-] 2 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

100% with you!

[-] 2 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

Makes sense. I just think that in order to have any alternative source of power from the 1% we have to have unions with this struggle. They are the only groups that, if democratic, have the grassroots power to stop the machine.

[-] 1 points by AWESOMEROBOT (32) from Fayetteville, AR 2 years ago

That's very true. A solid infrastructure will help tremendously.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Right. And all the Tea Party protests were great and grand and had so much valor.

[-] 1 points by AWESOMEROBOT (32) from Fayetteville, AR 2 years ago

At this point, the discussion has grown tremendously. I beg you to continue reading. This was a statement of equality, not a statement of support.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I agree with what you said about it being "OK" if conservatives were protesting.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I'm not sure what you are referring to... since it's hard to follow the numbers of replies.

[-] 1 points by AWESOMEROBOT (32) from Fayetteville, AR 2 years ago

I don't even know what I'm talking about any more, considering how dense and confusing this discussion has gotten. But the good thing is that there has been more participation on this topic than any other I have seen so far (on the OWS site). This is a really important cross road, and I have great sense of pride in my fellow citizens for voicing their opinions on a topic that obviously matters.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I had a hard time trying to follow back to the beginning of the original post. I totally agree with you.

[-] 0 points by Wyseguy (9) 2 years ago

I have never joined a political party. I don't give money to any of them (they have enough). I work hard, don't believe in debt and I watch the union in my job pay their head folks 80k a year while the secretaries are getting laid off left and right. AFL-CIO, SEIU, Move-On... just corporations by another name using this movement to further THEIR cause. Where were they 3 weeks ago?

If OWS is going to truly represent the 99%, inclusiveness would be a good idea. The organizations above practice race-baiting and class warfare (there's just as many of those on the other side too fyi...) Here I am, Mr. Independent. Those groups don't want people like me unless it's useful to them. I support those who are trying to make a point, not those trying to sell us a membership.

Maybe when their leadership stops getting perks and pay like CEO's and actually support real workers I'll believe their words.

[-] 4 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

Don't condemn the idea of workplace democracy because some unions are problematic. The point of unions is democracy. Their participation in OWS will help empower their membership.

[-] 1 points by Wyseguy (9) 2 years ago

I condemn greed.... how much money do these organizations have in their coffers? What are they doing with it? I'd love nothing more than to believe the story that it's all used to "support the workers" till I see my union head show up in his gold lined caddy while we haven't seen a raise in 5 years. Oh, but hey, they negotiated a great deal for themselves. Union members, I have no problem with, corrupt union leaders filling their pockets while making us carry their signs... no thanks

[-] 4 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

Guess what then... run for union office, become a shop steward. Fight. Life is a struggle. We've a lot of shit to clean up. There is always potential for corruption in a people based movement... because there are people involved and we are messy confused folks most days. Just don't use the corporate rhetoric about workplace democracy (unions) being corrupt (most aren't) or special interests (unless "democracy" is a special interest). Thousands of people around the world have died for the right to have a union and have a voice where they spend the majority of their waking life (at work for most people). If you want clean unions support groups like the IWW, the Association for Union Democracy, the UE, and other fighting unions... but don't repeat corporate rhetoric about all unions. Totally agree with your skepticism and desire to push inclusiveness, but workers and unions are an anchor to that.

[-] 1 points by kestrel (274) 2 years ago

don't forget to campaign for the president after you are in the union office.

[-] 2 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

Workplace democracy is important... all of this is a struggle, nothing is easy. We can be pro-active and fight for our communities and institutions, fight for democracy... or we can be divisive and rip on one part or another of the grassroots because our 'masters' have taught us to distrust community and collective action.

[-] 0 points by Flsupport (578) 2 years ago

I think you make a mistake when you dont maintain solidarity with your union. Your employer will try to divide and conquer and sometimes a union is all you have.

[-] 0 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

Well said Wyseguy... the one organization that I have the most trouble with is MoveOn... I want to see real progressives investigate who the primary funder of this organization is: George Soros, multi-billionaire speculator.

[-] 2 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

Good point. Some of these groups are not open/democratic groups. Groups that are lobbyists and too far part of that system make me nervous.

[-] 1 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

The reason I mention George Soros is that everything I have read is either BS from the Right who call him a "Nazi" "Socialist", etc. On the other hand the Left barely acknowledges him save for a line or two. it would seem that many on the Left are not aware what this man's agenda really is...if you are interested look him up on oilempire.org

[-] 1 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

Thanks. I'll check it out. I don't like billionaires, philanthropists or not. I'm not interested in Soros, the Kochs, or Oprah 'donating' their blood money. They shouldn't have it in the first place. I don't know where the line is, but having a billion is pretty clearly far over it.

[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 2 years ago

The left doesn't acknowledge him because he's just one of thousands of plutocrats, he's nothing special.

[-] 1 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

Yes, but he is the creator and funder of MoveOn.org is he not?

[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 2 years ago

No clue if he's funding, probably, but the founders are still on the executive board, and they're not George Soros, that was a fantasy cooked up by Glenn Beck in his Elizabeth Dilling induced dazes of neonazi conspiracy theories.

[-] 1 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

No, it is not a fantasy cooked up by Glenn Beck, etc. check out the website: www.oilempire.org

That is why I specifically said the Right paints him as a "Nazi-socialist" While the scant information on the Left decribe a multi-billionaire neo-con which I believe to be true... Unfortunately, he masquerades as a progressive.

[-] 1 points by Wyseguy (9) 2 years ago

I don't have a problem with any single organization, but come on.. we all know how it plays out. It's like the episode of South Park when they wanted to change the flag. As soon as "those guys" join a cause it becomes branded. Then the division gets played out in the media. One side is for it, the other side against it. then 99% becomes 45%/45%/9% undecided and 1% winning.

Last thing I'm doing is "repeating corporate rhetoric" (I must have missed the memo), Soros, Ailes, MSNBC/Fox/blah blah blah... Like many others, we're waiting to see what this is all really about. I don't believe the talking heads on either side and I'm keeping my eye's here for the real story.

[-] 0 points by RP2012 (86) 2 years ago

It should just be individuals. No need for union stamping. If the cause is legit it can stand on its own. Lots of union members just go with whatever their told...is that the kind of people you want?

[-] 2 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

Unions are a mechanism to organize individuals, an idea just like the 99%. They are one of the oldest 'ideas' about individual freedom in the world. If they go astray, criticize that particular instance... but in general we need more solidarity with unions as groups of workers, I think.

[-] 0 points by RP2012 (86) 2 years ago

The problem will be the same problem you're fighting. There will be a small group that will speak for the whole and when they say the wrong thing they will put a stamp on the whole movement. Rather than trying to get everyone on the same page, just put your opinions out there and vote for what you want. It saves time and money. Not everyone in the group is going to agree on the same issues.

[-] 1 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

Agreed, and as much as possible people need to fight to keep it at that level... but that's different from working with all sorts of people and groups in coalition.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

The workers represented by those unions ARE THE ONES WHO WANT TO SUPPORT THE OWS. It was voted unanimously by WORKING MEMBERS of the NYC Transportation Workers union to support this movement. How is THAT a special interest group, when the working members VOTED to support this movement, because they ARE the 99%, and this ALSO is ABOUT THEM????

[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 2 years ago

This. And if Union bosses start to be unhappy about this, we'll be happy to help the union rank and file to putsch their bureaucrats and bring back to worker democracy.

[-] 1 points by RP2012 (86) 2 years ago

You're right wiseguy.

[-] 0 points by iAMyouAREme (8) 2 years ago

We need to see past labels and realize behind those labels are people. We dont care about their label, we care about them. The focus here is unity. The 99% standing up for ourselves and each other. Let's let the words fall away and focus on starting over with as many people as possible involved. People are people. Lets get back to basics.

[-] 0 points by Flsupport (578) 2 years ago

I agree. In Poland, the people banded together with the unions to throw off the Soviet yoke. This is necessary if the 99% really want to make America a fairer place. Everyone throw off the cynical attitudes because the greater movement is what is important. The media.....and others can be of great assistance in achieving the overall goal which is a freer, fairer America.

[-] 1 points by LoTek (53) 2 years ago

hahahaha!! Aww.. Your subversive interference is almost cute, in a '5 year old with an ice cream cone' kinda way. You opted do draw a line in the sand and use the term 'liberal'.

Really? Much heavier hands are watching. Think twice about being patronizing.

[-] 1 points by Wyseguy (9) 2 years ago

If that's what you thought my motivation is, well, I guess my bad. Let me rephrase.. They are trying to brand this thing so they can force it into a box and slap a big fat label on it. "They" as in the political parties, the media, whatever. When the pictures are shown on MSNBC the banners will be front and center. When they show it on FOX the signs people are carrying that say "extreme" things will be front and center.

Those of us that are not in the zealot crowd (the people that I thought OWS was trying to communicate with) will mainly see those reports. I'm here. I took a chance and posted here. I'm reading the posts, I'm listening to people I normally wouldn't, I'm seeing some stuff I agree with and other things I am trying to understand.

So, should I shut up and go away so I don't get threatened again or am I allowed to be part of the 99%?

[-] 2 points by LoTek (53) 2 years ago

That's really quite a concise, intelligent answer to my response wyseguy. No threat was made, only a statement of fact. Sadly, being succinct in this environment, meaning can get lost. My apologies. Thank you for your elaboration. I personally appreciate your willingness to reach out , and I apologize for the rather charged environment this can be.

[-] 1 points by Wyseguy (9) 2 years ago

Y'know what, as someone who has been on the internet for waaaaay too long you just renewed my faith in civility. At the very least, you helped bridge a gap and proved that people can still talk to each other instead of at each other. May fortune follow you all your days!

[-] 1 points by LoTek (53) 2 years ago

And you as well Wyseguy. I'm equally refreshed. Thank you. Positive change IS achievable. I'm settled by your demonstration that's there's other open minds watching, and making their attempt.

Be well. =)

[-] 0 points by iAMyouAREme (8) 2 years ago

This is not about left or right. It is about new. For those of you with what you perceive as "opposing views" to our movement- I just want to plant one seed. You are here, looking at our sites and reading our information because there is something in you that relates to our cause. Granted, it may not have yet to be articulated by individuals in a way that resonates with you. But you too are struggling. You too are awakening to the malicious corruption that forgoes sanctity of quality of life. And THAT makes me happy that you are here. Because this is not about our differences, this is about us coming together. And it is perfectly ok to disagree on the problems, the resolutions, what needs to be reformed, which politicians need to get lost, etc. It is perfectly ok because we can have those conversations later. Right now, the root of the problem is removing the parts/people of this system that are unable/unwilling to maintain integrity in their dealings. And then we can come to the table together and discuss what is best for all of us. We cannot begin making resolutions until we have fixed the parts of the system that are broken. So thank you. Thank you for being here, thank you for speaking your truth, thank you for sharing your views with us. This is vital for the rebuilding once we have rid our government of the parasites it is riddled with. We are all one. Lets focus on unity not division in the meantime. It will make us ALL stronger. :)

[-] 1 points by occupywhat (5) 2 years ago

The unions are ABSOLUTELY one of the biggest problems in America. We should be picketing them.

[-] 1 points by occupywhat (5) 2 years ago

First and foremost I am all about standing up for what you believe in. What i do like about this is that people are afforded the opportunity to speak their mind whether or not others agree with it… which is what I am about to do. I saw the protestors earlier this week in NYC and all I can say is it is absolutely ridiculous what this has turned into. I guarantee if you went out there and offered everyone in the crowd a decent job, 98% of them would turn it down. Again, I am all about standing up for what you believe in but this apparently has been lost. Signs like "I love cops who smoke weed".... seriously. Then the union, that is a whole other thing. In fact, people should start picketing against the unions. You want to talk about greed. Look at the states that have a heavy union presence; those are the ones that have a heavy union presence; those are the ones that have the most economical issues in the country. See the trend? Unions have previously and continue to destroy this country. We wonder why businesses are taking their productions overseas. We wonder why our export to import ratio sucks. Companies with people trying to make a living cannot even work in the union areas because the wages are ridiculous and the majority of the workers are lazy and all they care about is when their next break is or if they are being treated unfairly. I did not say all by the way. If you try to get rid of a lazy worker off your job they file a grievance and cost the company money which makes the company less successful, which results in companies shutting their doors, which results in increased unemployment. Fairly simple concept. Everyone wants a hand out from the rich. By the way I am not rich in the way of money. Everyone wants a handout from the government. Granted some do need handouts because they cannot go to work and we should help those in need through the churches and humanitarian groups. Good economics does not start from the bottom and trickle up. America has gotten lazy and greedy. Kids are lazy and do not expect to have to work hard for a living or "get their hands dirty". 10 to 20 years down the road is what we should be the most concerned about because we will not have anyone but illegal aliens to do the hard work. All of those who should be working will be picketing about having to work and how life is unfair. This will be tragic and the signs are there. Not everyone should go to college. I do believe everyone should have the opportunity through scholarships, loans, etc but again, this does not mean that everyone should go. Some should stay back and be the mechanics and work in the fields and fast food restaurants, etc. You know, all the jobs that are out there but we American's are too good for? I bet there are some jobs in NYC right now that some of those picketers could go find... The problem is that people think it is only fair that if one person has something then they should have it too regardless of how hard the other person worked to get it. If I don't have something Donald Trump has, I do not think it is unfair. If I wanted it, I would try to figure out an honest way to get it. The power is truly with the people but what is going on here is not recognizing the things that truly are causing the issue. Yes, definitely agree the government is greedy and politics is absolutely to blame for a lot of things that are happening but I also believe the media is to blame for a large portion of the problem and the judiciary branch (which ties into the politics and their agendas) and, I know no one wants to hear this, the American people. We are part of the problem. We control so much by what we do and how we act but most of the time, we only see the situation we are in now and look for someone else to blame. No one wants to blame themselves and when solving problems, we have to look at us first.

[-] 1 points by LandofConfusion (1) 2 years ago

If you don't want your movement to be condemned by a vast majority of Americans then I would suggest you lose the unions. You have quite a few public sector unions protesting with you and they're the ones who directly benefited from the bailouts and have had tens of millions of taxpayer dollars funneled to them through various means, which outraged many Americans and shows the hypocrisy of the leadership and those who are participating in the protests.

The lobbying/influence that unions have in state and federal gov't is the reason they were able to get both to give such large sums of money back to the unions, and they have the audacity to show up and protest the the influence that large corporations have in gov't? That's hypocrisy in its finest form.

A union, especially one on the national level like AFSCME, is a "big corporation" with its members as the shareholders, that lobbies the gov't for its own best interests. The big unions like the AFL-CIO, AFSCME, etc. spend millions on lobbying and donate millions to the campaigns of prominent Democrats so they can get special favor from the gov't and it works. Yet at the same time they spend so much on campaigns and lobbying they are complaining that their members retirement and benefits are being cut and they're demanding the taxpayers make up the gap rather than spending less on campaigns and lobbying and giving more back to their members, the very people that are supposed to benefit from being in a union..

I know my one comment on the bottom of the page will have little, if any impact on OWS or any of the protesters but even if only one person reads my comment and researches what I said further(finding it to be true, of course) then changes their view on union participation in the OWS movement than my time here wasn't wasted..

Enjoy your protests

[-] 1 points by oldguy (17) from Oakley, MI 2 years ago

Good going folks on Wall Street. I will be attending two separate occupations in Saginaw, Mi in the next week in support of our efforts. First at BOA on Bay road sept 19 10:00 am til 6:00 pm Second at County court house on Michigan ave. sept 21 12 noon til midnight Carry on, carry on !

[-] 1 points by resistance (4) 2 years ago

Ideas for signs. These can also be question the protesters ask the media when being interviewed, ask them for their opinions on the matter - How much greed is enough?
How much hoarding is enough? Should the top 1% own 20% of America's wealth? 30%? 40%? 50%?

[-] 1 points by Mitch333 (93) 2 years ago

Re; the POLL — The official OWS website has publicly formed an alliance with a number of Democrat organizations. Will the movement ultimately be subverted by establishment Democrats? (infowars)

78% say yes. IF the dems takeover, it will be the People’s fault. The 99% will prevail if and when the 99% take action. AND...If OWS does support and want cash from the Establishment democrats than this will fail miserably.

[-] 1 points by rustylyan (12) 2 years ago

going to be more thrilled but nice if we have the other opinion, the wall street could be made strenthened constantly and we should join the campaign over the world

[-] 1 points by rustylyan (12) 2 years ago

going to be more thrilled but nice

[-] 1 points by rustylyan (12) 2 years ago

going to be more thrilled but nice

[-] 1 points by rustylyan (12) 2 years ago

going to be more thrilled but nice

[-] 1 points by rustylyan (12) 2 years ago

going to be more thrilled but nice

[-] 1 points by NinetyNine (24) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Why dont we protest the people that gave the bankers our money. Lets go to the Whitehouse. Lets go to show Nancy Peloci that we dont appreciate her, or the Congress she was in charge of, for giving our money away to the 1% Corporate elites. Lets stop the billions of dollars from going to campaign donor's fake energy businesses.

[-] 1 points by Mrcake (27) 2 years ago

Let me be clear that I mean give the power of politics back to the people, the money will soon follow and stimulate our economy

[-] 1 points by Mrcake (27) 2 years ago

Please stick to the issues, don't let this fizzle out cause noone can get organized. Get angry about the corruption and outsourcing of american jobs to serve corporate greed. Start away from the dems, and the repubs, they have both worked together to fuck us.

Take the money out of politics and give it back to us the people!!!!!!!!!!!!

[-] 1 points by iatexan (4) 2 years ago

Look at the blog on www.thebigturds.com...get a real education on what is going on.

[-] 1 points by Mitch333 (93) 2 years ago

"Together we will voice our belief that the American dream will live again, that the American way is to help one another succeed."

How? By asking the same groups listed above for help? Many are part of the problem. If you want 99% you should consider dropping many off that list. We The People do not need them. We do not need corrupt groups and the Obama Camp to do this. You are making a huge mistake. If your goal is to foster global socialism, less human rights and less fair wage jobs, then go for it BUT if you're mission is to be the 99% than you must represent the 99% with human beings..not interest groups.

[-] 1 points by Mitch333 (93) 2 years ago

Some of these ARE the 1%. What the hell is going on?

[-] 1 points by Mitch333 (93) 2 years ago

I am dismayed at most of this list. You will lose over 50% of your so called 99%. Socialist liberal groups? Count me out. If you want to become a political party go for it, but forget about 99%

[-] 1 points by memrosmex (15) 2 years ago

A solid first step in fixing our economic and political woes is to disqualify any person worth more than two million dollars from holding political office. The rich are too corrupted by greed to be an any benefit to the community generally. Putting the rich in government is like turning over the reins of power to a bunch of felons. The American middle class, the true creator of jobs and wealth, should control the government for the people. I look forward to some politician proposing this amendment before the greed of the already wealthy completely destroys our democratic way of life, economy and values. The foundation of our nation is not capitalism but democracy in the form of a Republic. Capitalism is nowhere even mentioned in the American Constitution. Capitalism is a tool of democracy to generate wealth and prosperity. Democracy should not be the tool of capitalism to generate wealth for a few. Capitalism is a beast that must be harnessed to pull the plow for the well-being of humanity. Now is an historic opportunity for hard-working and creative middle class Americans to assert their majority rights against a corrupt and ineffective elite who have brought the country to the brink of ruin.

[-] 1 points by ms3000 (253) 2 years ago

This is FANTASTIC! We need an action plan and this one has been put together by lawyers (the good kind) and some college students/protestors. Please check it out and add your comments and questions. We can go all the way if we have an ACTION PLAN!

https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/

The declaration went online on Oct 7, 2011 at 4:13 PM and since then we have almost 800 visitors and almost as many comments in emails, tweets and other postings, This is your future so please keep making suggestions! https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/

[-] 1 points by christopherj (77) 2 years ago

This movement is so deep, we're going to have republicans and tea party people defending Obama. http://sites.google.com/site/onecompanyatatime

[-] 1 points by architect77777 (1) 2 years ago

These protests have one thing in common with what is happening in Egypt. They like you are being manipulated to create chaos that will result in the further strengthening of those in power. The very people you protest against are half of the group that you are trying to neuter. The other half is "supporting" you, prepared to turn on you when the goals are reached. What will you do then? Follow the bouncing megaphone and take up the other half's rallying cry?

Take it from an old fool who marched in the 60's only to see a the best and the brightest sent to slaughter and our freedoms limited further under the guise of "restoring order" to the streets. Study history not doctrine. You are being prodded to react on behalf of the very people who helped create this mess. They occupy both sides of the aisle. And the only ones they trust are themselves.

God help us if you succeed.

[-] 1 points by juliasquilts (1) 2 years ago

How can those of us in the south of Texas with no money and no means of transportation support the aims of Occupy Wall Street? Hopefully you will consider the idea of repealing all laws enabling corporations as a center piece of your agenda.

[-] 1 points by bcv166 (18) from Edisto Beach, SC 2 years ago

Will this protest perhaps culminate in a robust third party which could hold sway in Congress and the state houses?

[-] 1 points by ANNETTEJ1127 (1) 2 years ago

MINISTERS UNITED FOR CHANGE IN NY. IS ALSO STANDING FIRM WITH YOU ALL!!

[-] 1 points by daybits1234 (1) 2 years ago

Obama took money from Goldman. He is not your friend.

[-] 1 points by shannone (2) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Since 1998, MoveOn has raised millions of dollars for many Democratic candidates,Since the 2000 election cycle, the MoveOn PAC has endorsed and supported the campaigns of candidates, including the 2008 candidacy of then-Senator Barack Obama, presidential candidate, nominee of the Democratic Party!! hhmmm I understand they say now all of their money comes from members donations less then $50 but really guys. this is a bit disturbing.

[-] 1 points by shannone (2) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Since 1998, MoveOn has raised millions of dollars for many Democratic candidates,Since the 2000 election cycle, the MoveOn PAC has endorsed and supported the campaigns of candidates, including the 2008 candidacy of then-Senator Barack Obama, presidential candidate, nominee of the Democratic Party!! hhmmm I understand they say now all of their money comes from members donations less then $50 but really guys. this is a bit disturbing.

[-] 1 points by mitaows (7) 2 years ago

We empower each other through right knowledge and understanding of the blindspots in the current system. http://conscious-capitalism.blogspot.com

[-] 1 points by rock61 (1) 2 years ago

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. You have the freedom to work, determine your vocation and live where you want in this county. It’s up to you to make it, not the Governments role to provide ALL your health care, send you on vacation or buy you are car. Don’t like this country leave,

[-] 1 points by oldguy (17) from Oakley, MI 2 years ago

Based on the amount of teabagger comments on #occupywallstreet we are getting some press coverage. Probably faux bs but it is coverage. Was brought up a few times on Obama's press conference. Carry on, carry on !

[-] 1 points by AlanO (52) 2 years ago

People bitched about the MSM not getting involved. People thought it was a great idea to get union workers on site to stand with the protesters. People invited specific organisations to help spread the message.

Now, the MSM (MSNBC in particular especially) has tried all day to further understand this movement. To understand what its all about. And tonight, as Ed Schultz (a true champion for the middle class) hosted his show right there in the midst of it all. Right there WITH the protesters. He hosted some union members, and "some" protesters actually stood behind him heckling and shouting "no more unions".

What. The. Fuck?

You invite people to this who you apparently came to some sort of consensus to determine could be of help to the movement, and then stand there and heckle and shout down the very people you invited?

Get this fuckin' shit together, or you'll lose more and more support by the day. Because what I just watched on the Ed Show, was total bullshit. And that jackass that stood behind Ed on camera heckling without being checked (and checked friggin' hard upside the head had I been standing there), isn't going to help clarify anything. Get the punks in line, or send them and their shittalk packing.

[-] 1 points by cmoylanc (32) 2 years ago

I don't see AAUP listed among the unions but we were there. I was, anyway, and I know other members were. That's the professors union--appropriate, given that one emphasis was on campus involvement today.

[-] 1 points by Tree201 (2) 2 years ago

so exciting to see the movement build and grow.

[-] 1 points by goatdude (13) 2 years ago

apple, UPS, home depot, Sprint, AT&T.....i could go on. You consume from the corporations that you protest.

[-] 1 points by HELP (10) 2 years ago

It's getting bigger every day.Keep up the good work The REVOLUTION has just begun! WE ARE THE 99%!

[-] 1 points by chigrl (94) 2 years ago

I thought you all were against "corporate greed"? You do know that Unions and Non Profits are also corporations right? They too are capable of being just as corrupt as for profit corporations and they also have lobbyists who fight for minority viewpoints (viewpoints which would get no attention in a true democracy). Teaming up with a bunch of corporations in order to stick it to the corporations? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[-] 1 points by grandcapitalist (6) 2 years ago

99%? Aside from egalitarians who truly are ignorant, communist, anti-constitutionals and a few minions of the stupid, who are the rest of the 98.99% you speak of? I would imagine that if your numbers are as you say this movement would have been far more....oh shall we say...properous, yes thats the word prosperous.

[-] 1 points by SteveWood (19) from Porum, OK 2 years ago

The numbers are quickly becoming more prosperous as the masses realize that "We are the 99%" includes them regardless of their political affiliation or anything else so long as they recognize the need to "End control of the government by global banks, corporations and billionaires."

As a grandcapitalist perhaps you have yet to realize that the 99% includes you assuming you are in favor of a government of the people, by the people and for the people. The 99% have a plethora of concerns which confuses the opposition (a good thing). But they have but one guiding principle.

Each of us recognize that big money has staged a silent coup by which control has shifted such that the government is now of big money, by big money and for big money. Our concerns are many and diverse, but our common goal is to return control of government to we the 99%.

[-] 1 points by grandcapitalist (6) 2 years ago

99%? Aside from egalitarians who truly are ignorant, communist, anti-constitutionals and a few minions of the stupid, who are the rest of the 98.99% you speak of? I would imagine that if your numbers are as you say this movement would have been far more....oh shall we say...properous, yes thats the word prosperous.

[-] 1 points by grandcapitalist (6) 2 years ago

99%? Aside from egalitarians who truly are ignorant, communist, anti-constitutionals and a few minions of the stupid, who are the rest of the 98.99% you speak of? I would imagine that if your numbers are as you say this movement would have been far more....oh shall we say...properous, yes thats the word prosperous.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

unions are organizations of workers that look out for other workers whose primary goal is to serve the workers in the union

these people are certainly with in the 99%

[-] 1 points by sqrltyler (207) 2 years ago

Some gems from the web today:

"If you do not understand what's going on, simply understand this, that the top 1% of the wealthiest most powerful people in the world own 85%% of the wealth in the world. They own governments and media, they own and control most everything you perceive. One man alone, Baron D`Rothschild has enough money to house, feed and clothe every man, women and child on this planet. And they're not done accumulating wealth, they want the 15% that they do not yet have.

Now ask yourself, when they get that 15%, what use will they have for us then? Considering they don't care for us now, what use would we be then to them? This isn't just about a fight for your wealth, it's a fight for your life.

So if you're condemning these protesters you're cheering on the top 1% that would have you dead. Something to think about.

""The Tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants from time to time."" Thomas Jefferson

It's that time. Join us."


"To everybody out there blaming Obama, Bush or any other singular government official as the cause for America's prosperity getting flushed down the toilet. You're missing the big picture. The situation is simple: The near entirety of the US government is corrupt and run by political Bribe-takers bought and paid for by people who have amassed the most wealth overall in this country (Top 1% of the US Population). These politicians, now solely representing their funders and not the voters turn around and pass legislation that gives the Super Rich here every advantage possible, including free money (Quantitative Easing/Bailouts), lower taxes and zero accountability for their actions. In order to prevent revolts from the increased burden to the unrepresented in this country, the Super Rich have set up a bogus political party to siphon off and redirect the anger of the masses (The Republicans) and an ineffectual party (The Democrats) to cave to “republican pressure” while pretending to care about the masses. In addition, they have co-opted and bought out nearly all of the mainstream media in order to filter out any info that would lay the blame on the true culprit, instead leaving the majority of America divided and focusing their energies on decoy scapegoats and partisan nonsense. The super rich and those they pay for care not one bit about jobs or the welfare of the country they grew from. They merely care about having as many digits as possible for their bank statement balance. And if that means the middle/working class will eventually need to vanish, then so be it. The entire system is broken."

[-] 2 points by tf1756 (29) 2 years ago

^Gets it. Finally someone that fully understands. Our government today is the "Vehicle" today that the 1% is aligned with to grow their wealth. As a result of it, almost all the politicians who have been in office for more than 12 years are millionaires. Our last Speaker, Nancy Pelosi, is a millionaire over and over, owns houses in the San Francisco area to keep her seat, while her primary residence is in Napa, on a vineyard. She secured a 775 million dollar "loan" from Obama for her brother to build a solar power plant in Nevada. This is our money, not her. She treats it as if it were her money. And Boehner says nothing. They are all in this together

[-] 1 points by walker (20) from Starkville, MS 2 years ago

wow i am soo happy to see that so many important groups are finally getting on board with the movement. i lost my companions today. they could not handle the long journey. i am still pushing forward. i had to stop in Virginia i will be delayed about a week, to earn some cash before moving on. i gave what cash i had to the poor souls that couldnt continue and wished them well. i hope to see everyone soon

[-] 1 points by Thenewyorkcritic (3) from Castleton-on-Hudson, NY 2 years ago

I really wish I could be a part of this, I came down on monday with the help of a couple friends pitching in gas,toll, funds. I'm in Albany ny about 2 1/2 hours away from the city but I'm trying my hardest to make it back down there to continue reporting what the main stream media refuses to. Check out some of the footage I got from monday, support independent journalism, subscribe to the youtube channel and share the video with everyone on facebook. Also, if your in the albany ny area and you wanna car pool let me know, Im willing to drive my car and stay overnight and possibly as long as I can. Here's a link to some of my work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyEiIvFKVEM

[-] 1 points by goatdude (13) 2 years ago

youtube,,,,?....owned by corporate google? are you ashamed of yourself?

[-] 1 points by goatdude (13) 2 years ago

you drive a car built by evil corporations?

[-] 1 points by brooklynmulatta (2) 2 years ago

Please reconsider use of terminology such as "American Dream" it made me want to not be affiliated with your movement. I am still planning on attending the march in solidarity but I cannot be in solidarity with the American Dream - It is the white man's colonial dream.

[-] 1 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

Yes, I would agree with that.

[-] 1 points by knowltz (5) 2 years ago

The 'Occupy Wall Street' Movement is being co-opted at the top, and by certain celebrities, and big-money backers to promote the movement, and push it toward a more Marxist philosophy towards free market capitalism, which is NOT the problem here. It is monopolistic corporatism. In saying that, I think many people are being duped here, and will end up hurting the entrepreneur in the end.

This is being directed to support Obama in the end. He is not a friend to free-market enterprise. He is property of Wall Street.

Why isn't the Federal Reserve being mentioned AT ALL!? I mean this madness people! It's a movement to raise taxes for God sake, its rediculous.

[-] 1 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

This is not going to hurt the entrepreneur... This movement is not about preventing people from reaching their potential...far from it. It amazes me how people in the US are so phobic about Marxism to the extent that they claim they are being "co-opted" by "Marxists like Obama" What a laugh!

[-] 1 points by tf1756 (29) 2 years ago

Exactly

[-] 1 points by ZinnReader (92) from Encinitas, CA 2 years ago

Awesome! Now we must find a way to include the PBA, NAPO, and other Police unions!

[-] 1 points by Boletus (125) 2 years ago

"Jesus Christ" - Woody Guthrie

Jesus Christ was a man who traveled through the land A hard-working man and brave He said to the rich, "Give your money to the poor," But they laid Jesus Christ in His grave

Jesus was a man, a carpenter by hand His followers true and brave One dirty little coward called Judas Iscariot Has laid Jesus Christ in His Grave

He went to the preacher, He went to the sheriff He told them all the same "Sell all of your jewelry and give it to the poor," And they laid Jesus Christ in His grave.

When Jesus come to town, all the working folks around Believed what he did say But the bankers and the preachers, they nailed Him on the cross, And they laid Jesus Christ in his grave.

And the people held their breath when they heard about his death Everybody wondered why It was the big landlord and the soldiers that they hired To nail Jesus Christ in the sky

This song was written in New York City Of rich man, preacher, and slave If Jesus was to preach what He preached in Galilee, They would lay poor Jesus in His grave.

[-] 1 points by Boletus (125) 2 years ago

For the union bashers: who do you think the 1% is going after first? Unions are their worst nightmare.

Or maybe you would prefer to work 80 hours a week for $2.00 an hour with no benefits? If not for unions there would be no minimum wage, no time and a half for overtime, no workplace safety laws, .....

And no, I am not a union member, and yes, they have issues too, but I thank my lucky stars they exist. Listen to some Woody Guthrie, then get back to me.

[-] 1 points by Maicohwaya (2) from Vale, OR 2 years ago

We are having a Occupy Boise march today Oct. 5th to show solidarity. even though I live in Vale Oregon. I'll be going! Stand up America!

[-] 1 points by asbbkbtgic (1) 2 years ago

Go protesters!!! I am sick of the greed and dictators of wall street. The insurance companys are the worst. They are killing the small business person. asbbkbtic.

[-] 1 points by warewolff (7) 2 years ago

The people have spoken! Do NOT publicly announce the movements affiliation with unions, political parties, or anyone else for that matter. This is not the majority speaking and it will deter other supporters and burn bridges before we have encouraged change. There should be NO biased updates on this website and it should be run purely as a means of updating the public as to pertinent topics (ie: Marches and/or rallies, mass arrests, legal information, etc). This is a leaderless movement. Just as the majority do not support cyber-attacks, the majority also do not support this. TAKE IT DOWN.

[-] 1 points by Cafree (80) 2 years ago

I was interviewed yesterday about why I support Occupy Wall Street by China National Radio. That broadcast goes out to over one billion people. Secondly, for those saying there is no "goal" or list of demands. There is! You could vote on the proposals but, they are taking their time with it. I think that's a good thing. It's an MSM meme that "these people don't know what they want." Third, I think the unions joining is a good thing. No one is a "leader" here and many people of all walks of life will join. 99 percent is a big group of differing people so nobody is going to like or love every group or individual. There are some who have joined that I do not agree with at all on certain points, certain Randian types. HOWEVER, they have a voice here too. It's fine, it's all good!. Everybody wants accountability from the government, the banks and the speculators on Wall St. People who have been hurt by their practices come from every walk of life and all beliefs. Some people from websites I used to visit who I really did not think would support this, are all for it. It's amazing how many feel their voice is finally being heard by being a part of this movement.

[-] 1 points by SteveWood (19) from Porum, OK 2 years ago

The clear message is "End control of the government by global banks, corporations and billionaires." as summed up by "We are the 99%". If you see that the media is too dumb to make that connection contact them and explain it. It's a good thing when the opposition doesn't make the connection and remains confused.

The 99% includes people from across the political spectrum all working toward a government of the people, by the people and for the people. They have a plethora of concerns but one common principle.

Each one of us recognize that big money has staged a silent coup by which control has shifted such that the government is now of big money, by big money and for big money. If you don't believe that's correct go down to the square and start asking each individual you meet. Our concerns are many and diverse, but our common goal is to return control of government to we the 99%.

Once that is done, all concerns can be addressed democratically. Until that is done share your concerns but focus on the message "We are the 99%." or if that is not clear enough go with "End control of the government by global banks, corporations and billionaires."

[-] 1 points by Cafree (80) 2 years ago

Well good then because that is exactly what I did. I summed it up in one sentence. Economic inequity, corporations controlling our election process, and banks stealing and being rewarded for it. 99 percent paying for everything, making ALL the sacrifices, while we give golden parachutes to Wall Street criminals and bankers. Thanks for your help with this. A bit intimidated being interviewed for something that a billion people will hear and everyone in the rest of Asia and Aussieland too. I am certainly NOT a spokesperson..just one of the 99 percent.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Yes, the unions represent the rights of the people and of workers. The reason unions exist is because of the abuse that workers endured years and years ago at the hands of their employers. It's not about left vs. right or right vs. left.

[-] 1 points by Cafree (80) 2 years ago

Yes, some need to go and look up the Triangle factory fire again. If some corporations had their way there would be zero worker rights and in fact in farming we have some deplorable conditions out there for migrant workers even today. No union is going to do everything perfectly...I have disagreed with some things they have done at times BUT without them we can all just go back to the way things were before we had them. I support their participation fully. They have given a voice to worker rights for decades.

[-] 2 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

Yeah, so much for letting the "job creators" self-regulate...

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

It just so happens that the right wing in the U.S is not for workers' rights at all. I don't understand at all why right wing citizens would be against workers' rights. It just simply baffles me to no end.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I saw the doc about the Triangle Factory fire on HBO. I was so saddened by it. What a shame it is that things like that are allowed to happen. I totally agree about unions. Unions DO represent the workers, while corporations certainly DO NOT represent workers. If unions are corrupt, then they need to be straightened out.... but it doesn't mean that they should disappear.

Why would workers in lesser developed countries be fighting hard to form unions if they didn't represent those workers and their employers weren't taking advantage of them? Some people just can't, or don't want to, connect the dots.

[-] 1 points by givepeaceachance (4) 2 years ago

America is with the 99% #occupywallstreet and all the people who are able to join the fight.Take back our Liberty's, save the constitution, make the federal Goverment accountable for the treason of bailouts to big banks, these crimes they inflict on American citizen has been going on for to long..The working middle class stand with you in spirit and resolve...We are PROUD OF YOU.

[-] 1 points by givepeaceachance (4) 2 years ago

America is with the 99% #occupywallstreet and all the people who are able to join the fight.Take back our Liberty's, save the constitution, make the federal Goverment accountable for the treason of bailouts to big banks, these crimes they inflict on American citizen has been going on for to long..The working middle class stand with you in spirit and resolve...We are PROUD OF YOU.

[-] 1 points by freedomforever (2) 2 years ago

God bless all the organizations who are joining in this march (and all the occupiers and supporters who have participated in it thus far). I will pray for the safety of all participants today as you stick your necks out on the line to stand up for us all in your march to the NYC financial district. Thank you all! You are true American heroes. Without you, we would be lost. But with you, we will be found! Like a phoenix rising from the ashes, we will be reborn as a nation, thanks to the efforts of people who are not afraid to stand up and be counted among the 99%. Let us be counted! Let us be known to those who would ignore us! Let us NOT be ignored! A people united will NEVER be defeated! Let us UNITE!! We ARE the other 99%, and we ARE one! STAY STRONG OCCUPIERS! WE ARE WITH YOU!

[-] 1 points by Sickntired (2) 2 years ago

The best thing we can do is come together and take a vow not to vote for any of these Democratic or Republican liars! We should search for our own leader and not let the oil industry, bankers, or health investors back him/her!

[-] 1 points by Sickntired (2) 2 years ago

The best thing we can do is come together and take a vow not to vote for any of these Democratic or Republican liars! We should search for our own leader and not let the oil industry, bankers, or health investors back him/her!

[-] 1 points by redchilirevolution (6) 2 years ago

http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S2313130.shtml?cat=504

University of New Mexico students begin "Occupy Burque" in support of Occupy Wall Street.....we are 99%!

Restore the 95% federal personal income tax rates on American who net $1 million or more annually.

Close all corporate tax loopholes.

Use revenues from restoration of tax rates on the super-rich, and revenues from closing corporate tax loopholes to create at least 14 million jobs for Americans.

[-] 1 points by Tomhmm (5) from Queens, NY 2 years ago

We have the Jews for Racial and Economic Justice and the New York City Progressive Caucus endorsing this march as of yesterday! Yay

[-] 1 points by Dublin99 (65) 2 years ago

The world is heading towards perpetual sustained wars, driven there by the 1% to distract the 99% from the reality.

The reality is that Governments are owned by the wealthy, not by us. The resources and taxes of every country in the world are being stolen by the 1% who travel where they want, when they want.

They don't see borders, neither should we.

We are the 99%

[-] 1 points by loanslave (19) 2 years ago

BEWARE of being co-opted by other groups. While we should have respect for the struggles of the unions, they are a machine that can pummel the message of the 99%.

Unions are all about getting the "master" to give you a few more pennies an hour, a few more minutes of freedom per week. Begging the master for a little slack is not what Occupy Wall Street is about. OWS is about overhauling the whole darn system and proclaiming ourselves "free from the master". It's about not playing the game of the corpotocracy. Unions, despite their good intentions, are merely the other end of that game. They're not thinking outside the box, the way that OWS is. They will have three demands that benefit their specific workers and move on. The rest of us will still be left with a failed democratic system, a government owned by corporations, and a media that is in the pocket of both. Don't let the unions take over Occupy Wall Street!! As individuals, they can join our voices as part of the 99%. As organizations, they need to go get their own publicity.

[-] 1 points by loanslave (19) 2 years ago

Beware of affiliating with organizations, including unions. If individuals want to join as the 99% great, but organizations are always wrought with their own politics and their own micro-oppressions. Too many unions have gotten so bureaucratic that they no longer represent the individual workers' wishes - too many are out for themselves and charging exorbitant union fees to their workers in exchange for representation that gets them so little extra pay that it doesn't make up for even the fees. I don't know when it happened (and it didn't happen to all of them) but too many union higher ups are just out to also take money out of the worker's pocket, under the guise of being their savior. Get unions back into the hands of the actual WORKERS!!!

[-] 1 points by dengt0211 (3) 2 years ago

来自中国人民14亿的问候。全力支持你们的占领华尔街的行动。全世界无产者联合起来,推翻1%的富人阶级,实现人类大同的美好社会!

[-] 1 points by dengt0211 (3) 2 years ago

来自中国人民14亿的问候。全力支持你们的占领华尔街的行动。全世界无产者联合起来,推翻1%的富人阶级,实现人类大同的美好社会!

[-] 1 points by kestrel (274) 2 years ago

The unions are joining just because this is nothing more than an Obama reelection rally.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Really? It's not about the workers and taxpayers and the middle class being taken advantage of... the ones who lost their pensions, their healthcare (the husband of one of my co-workers, who is retired from GM, lost his healthcare.... healthcare that he paid into the while time he worked for GM), their savings, their houses, etc.????

[-] 1 points by kestrel (274) 2 years ago

Isn't everything you listed what obama is campaigning on? Yep, just a campaign rally, nothing more. by the way, it was the union that took that healthcare away, afterall they owned GM after the bankruptcy court broke the rules in favor of the unions over the bond / share holders (i.e. Indiana teachers pensions)

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I'm talking about REAL LIFE issues. You are incompetent (or are in denial) if you don't see what's been happening. I don't give a shit who's campaigning about what. It has NOTHING to do with politicians, other than they need to change their ways.

I know SEVERAL people who have lost their professional jobs, because of greedy companies and who can't find other jobs.

Get a clue.

[-] 1 points by TrumpetingNow (6) 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by oldguy (17) from Oakley, MI 2 years ago

Anyone with an account at Bank of America, Citibank or any other Wall Street bank should close account and move to local bank or credit union. Do it now !

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I just bought a house and mistakenly got my mortgage from PNC Mortgage. The process of getting the mortgage, even though I have good credit and make plenty of money to buy the house, was by far one of the worst experiences of my life. I told them I never will do business with PNC again, and now I will take my money out.

[-] 1 points by goatdude (13) 2 years ago

so a corporation helped you buy a house? you greedy capitalist you!

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

If I had it to do all over again, I would've joined the credit union a long time ago and would've gotten my mortgage from the credit union.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I have my money in PNC, and I'm taking it out and will join a credit union this week. I'm done with ALL banks.

[-] 1 points by oldguy (17) from Oakley, MI 2 years ago

good for you, i was with pnc also now with credit union.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I wish I would've done it before and would've gotten my mortgage from the credit union. Maybe I can re-fi with them a little later.

[-] 1 points by Cafree (80) 2 years ago

Did this two weeks ago.

[-] 2 points by oldguy (17) from Oakley, MI 2 years ago

me too

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

What is the American Dream but the remnants of the rhetorical campaign designed to consign people into the industrial economic order? Let us define these phrases and in so doing, free ourselves from the burden of the myth. Are we not capable of having our own dreams, whilst maintaining solidarity with the cause of democracy?

[-] 1 points by brooklynmulatta (2) 2 years ago

I hear you. I was totally put off by the language of American Dream. The whole ideology is imperialistic - we stole this land, let's not forget that there are people living on reservations thanks to our American Dream.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

No argument there, however, the colonization of N. America is well...done. Today, indigenous people need to have their rights enforced better...but this was not the focus of my comment. The crux of the matter is that simply having more "jobs" will not cure the profound ills we are dealing with, as the offering of work has not typically been done so with the intention of extending wealth; this only happened when government extended opportunities, in the form of access to education, industry, etc.

[-] 1 points by paddyrock1 (1) 2 years ago

For those that are in charge. Please get as many people as possible to watch Money Masters and or Secrets of Oz. Everyone should know how banks actually work and what we can do to push for banking reform. If we do not get the power of currency creation to serve the people, nothing will change. This the number 1 issue facing the population today. We can no longer be debt slaves to the big private banks. We can no longer let them create our currency at interest. It is the root of all of our social and economic problems and its only going to get worse. www.positivemoney.org.uk

[-] 1 points by laformiotodidac (4) 2 years ago

Capital Ground

Now is the shared time Of our last riches

To each birth Freedom A drop of water Thirsty of river

To each birth Equality A drop of sweat Exhausted of misery

To each birth Fraternity A drop of air Dirty of deserts

Now is the exorcised time Of our planetary reasons

The articulated time Of a capital Ground.

Mr.Anick Roschi 3.3.09

[-] 1 points by AlbertoBetoCarra (1) 2 years ago

Love from Europe

[-] 1 points by rippeddisc (1) from Princeville, HI 2 years ago

You are our only hope...

[-] 1 points by flashwitt (3) from Seattle, WA 2 years ago

It is being complained by the opposers and those who fail to understand that tehre is "no clear message". The irony is unimaginable. What needs to be understood is that ALL of the causes and injustices are valid. And that these people are united under a banner of VAST injustice. We unite because we all agree universally that SOMETHING must be done. The gatherings are a rally- they shout that a message is coming. That those who feel the injustice must stand up, so that when that message is spoken, it will be in a universal Voice too loud to be ignored. We who gather are that Voice. Our presence alone speaks volumes. What can they do to quiet us? NOTHING. And they have proven themselves experts at doing exactly that.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

How can they NOT know what the message is? That's just pure propaganda to say they don't know. You have to be living under a rock to not know.

[-] 1 points by flashwitt (3) from Seattle, WA 2 years ago

I would be inclined to agree, SM, but I also know more than a few suits who are NOT billionaires or even millionaires, who really ARE just that clueless. These are people who aspire to the 1%, which is a pitiful shame, but to be fair, they are equally clueless exactly what they themselves are aspiring to, and here is to hoping that we can wake the sleepers, including the Young Turks who are foolish enough to believe there's a cushy job just waiting for them if they only put in enough hours, and pay their dues in taking the heat when the bull**** hits the fan. They are fools. And we fight for them too.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Yes, I agree. I just get sick of hearing "what is their message", "I don't know what they are protesting for", etc. It's pretty frickin' obvious.

Yeah, I have co-workers who thought (and may still think) that if they allow themselves to be slaves to the ones at the top that it will get them somewhere. Well, all I can say is that it hasn't worked yet (in the almost 6 years I've been at my company), so I think they have given up with that concept.

[-] 1 points by Boletus (125) 2 years ago

Remember what Thoreau told Emerson.

[-] 1 points by athens (1) 2 years ago

sending support from Athens Greece where we have a nation wide strike today with protests over austerity....so empowered by what you are doing in New York...gather momentum!!!

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Thanks, and good luck with your protest!

[-] 1 points by galaxyhiker42 (1) from Istanbul, Istanbul 2 years ago

Hey guys! Lets end the electoral college so that every voice does count? Lets set term limits on congress so that corruption cannot get comfortable.

we know corporate greed is bad and that they are fucking us over and we're being treated like chinese laborers. But they are not going to change watching us from their multi million dollar apartments.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I agree.

[-] 1 points by workingforus (4) from San Francisco, CA 2 years ago

it's time to create our own system. It is time to organize and create new solutions. Localize, revert on globalization. we need local economies and local power.

A tactic might be used, create a new form of currency system.

another tactic: switch to credit unions fast- tell everyone to start one and then we do a systematic run.

another tactic: localize everything: community interaction. Boycotts!

Dialogue is what is important. We need to get much farther head of them.

Don't get hijacked by any group. KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK.

empower ourselves and take back our communities, take back our cultures and most importantly our minds.

the top down approach is done!

Create, NOW!!!

Organize, for we are no longer occupied with their lie, it is our turn to occupy.

[-] 1 points by Belgrader (3) 2 years ago

Support to brothers and sisters in USA from SERBIA (Europe) !! www.aikb.net

[-] 1 points by Belgrader (3) 2 years ago

Support to brothers and sisters in USA from SERBIA (Europe) !! www.aikb.net

[-] 1 points by LivingTheDream (4) from Wilsonville, AL 2 years ago

OCCUPY WALL STREET PLEASE MARCH ON the BIGGEST CORPORATE IMMIGRATION LAW FIRM in the WORLD.

Fragomen, Bernsen, Del Rey, and Loewy- Has been responsible for countless American jobs to be outsourced and INSOURCED. They consistently find ways to MANIPULATE LABOR LAWS so giant corporations can save money by hiring foreign workers to work in corporate offices in AMERICA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrapEizmuyM

[-] 1 points by LivingTheDream (4) from Wilsonville, AL 2 years ago

OCCUPY WALL STREET PLEASE MARCH ON the BIGGEST CORPORATE IMMIGRATION LAW FIRM in the WORLD.

Fragomen, Bernsen, Del Rey, and Loewy- Has been responsible for countless American jobs to be outsourced and INSOURCED. They consistently find ways to MANIPULATE LABOR LAWS so giant corporations can save money by hiring foreign workers to work in corporate offices in AMERICA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrapEizmuyM

[-] 1 points by ChinaFeng (38) 2 years ago

CONSTITUTION For the New Socialist Republic In North America (Draft Proposal)

[-] 1 points by knowltz (5) 2 years ago

How can a Republic be socialist? They are two opposing ideas. Where did you go to school?

[-] 1 points by ChinaFeng (38) 2 years ago

CONSTITUTION For the New Socialist Republic In North America (Draft Proposal)

[-] 1 points by Boletus (125) 2 years ago

I wish to stress the importance of keeping live feeds going. Virtually all of the relevant footage broadcast across the world of the bridge march came from the OWS live feed.

If I could donate, I would. If I could come, I would. But I will be a witness, at least, if I am able.

[-] 1 points by williamyinpingping (1) 2 years ago

Ok, some updates from Shanghai,in China,maybe you didn't realise, the"Occupy Wallst" movement has become one of the top news for China's most popular TVs and newswebsites, we continuously watch the developments from you!

William, from Shanghai,China.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Yay!!

[-] 1 points by tttttt (1) 2 years ago

First of all. Make sure the rich people pay more tax! Support the “Buffett Rule” and the people who try to put the law in place. Despise the people who made sure the rich people pay less tax.

[-] 1 points by juandelacruz (5) 2 years ago

Change the system from capitalism to socialist society. This will guide us to the solution of the monopoly capitalism

live up the spirit of workers unity to abolish the withering away capitalism system.....

[-] 1 points by goatdude (13) 2 years ago

move to the USSR

[-] 1 points by AWESOMEROBOT (32) from Fayetteville, AR 2 years ago

Is there no middle ground? I hope to someday grow rich. I don't want that opportunity to be taken away. I still have it now, but it's just very small.

[-] 0 points by jcm1027 (32) from Eugene, OR 2 years ago

America needs to redefine "rich". Having lots of money? Why? So you can buy political influence? You see, that's what got us here.

The belief that you can be rich, and that that's perfectly fine and indeed good, is exactly the problem.

When I was young, I remember asking, "What's money?" The answers were all along the lines of "that's what you get when you work hard." Or even, "money is the reward for positive participation in society." Seems simple enough. But ... the "banksters" make lots of money. Are they positively benefiting society?

So again, I have to ask, why do you want to "grow rich"?

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I totally agree. I just want to be able to make a good living, have a house, travel, enjoy my activities, hang out with friends, be happy, not have worries, enjoy my life, etc.

Wanting to be rich = greed.

[-] 1 points by AWESOMEROBOT (32) from Fayetteville, AR 2 years ago

What you're saying is illogical. To assume that I want money to buy political power would mean that I would need political power. I would already be rich, so why would I need to sway others? Wouldn't a sane person attempt to sway others before he or she is wealthy? It's quite a waste of time, after the fact. From your generalizations, it seems as though you believe in some sort of innate feature in humans that requires us to be greedy and lust for power. I don't want to make decisions for or control anyone other than myself. Your sentence about political influence is a generalization and sensationalism. There are plenty of wealthy people who don't wish or need to buy any sort of political power, who have also worked hard and keep to themselves.

The belief that I can grow rich is the exact reason I work, pay my bills, support my community, and do countless other things to further my life. If I didn't believe I could be something better than I am, why would I get out of bed? I think Ayn Rand called it Objectivism.

When I was young, I remember asking, "What's sensationalism?" The answers were all along the lines of "It's near sighted, over-hyped bias that others spout out with the intention of gathering followers without a firm explanation of both sides of the subject matter." By saying things like "the banksters make lots of money." you are making a broad generalization that could not possibly be true considering the massive amounts of missing data. This type of statement is closely akin to creating false racial stereotypes as well as masking parts of factual information by reciting half truths or by hyping up the negative features of the supposed opponent, which is sensationalism.

I am not pro-banker. But I am anti-generalization based on under-education and sheer ignorance of the broad scope of missing data. I cannot stand idly by while the uninformed masses force their un-researched opinions on others. This is not to mean that I am an expert on any subject. But, this does mean that I will learn the maximum amount of obtainable information pertaining to the things that I feel strongly about, before I make broad judgments or attempt to educate others in a demeaning way.

There is a difference between a want for riches and greed. I am not greedy, I do not take from others in any form other than a fair trade, I do not take more than my share in a fair trade. My share is the amount in which I value myself vs the amount the other party is willing to pay. I want to grow rich so that I can provide for my loved ones in a manner that suits my best interests. To which, I alone decide.

In rereading your post, I can find no content or exact point. This is how I understand your statement (as I assume your questions are rhetorical). Wealthy Americans want to buy political influence. We are here. We believe we can be rich. You didn't know what money was when you were young. When you asked for a definition of money, you were misinformed. Bankers make lots of money. You may or may not like to pretend that you have asked a question before, but are actually asking it for the first time. As your first "Why?" is eluding to the previous question of "Having lots of money?", which in fact, is not a question.

[-] 1 points by jcm1027 (32) from Eugene, OR 2 years ago

"The belief that I can grow rich is the exact reason I work, pay my bills, support my community, and do countless other things to further my life. If I didn't believe I could be something better than I am, why would I get out of bed?"

Why does "be something better than I am" require you to "grow rich"? Can you not be better without money? I think you and everyone else can. I will never be rich, but I don't just lay in bed all day. And what gets me out of bed is not to go get a little money. It's to go meet with people and do what I enjoy.

"I want to grow rich so that I can provide for my loved ones in a manner that suits my best interests."

Why only your loved ones and not everyone on earth? You and your loved ones have to live with them too.

I think the real problem in America is that "get money" is the only motivator for far to many people.

[-] 1 points by FreedomLovingProgressive (4) from San Francisco, CA 2 years ago

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to pass into heaven.

Excess wealth and massive consumption is irresponsible, selfish, harmful to our planet and damaging to the heart and soul.

Bill and Melinda Gates will gift 90% of their wealth to good works. WE gave them that wealth. They are dedicated to returning that to us.

[-] 1 points by AWESOMEROBOT (32) from Fayetteville, AR 2 years ago

My major problem with this movement, is the people's inability to effectively communicate. In order for anyone to effectively communicate, their statements must be structured in a pattern similar to this; preface, statement, fact. Saying things like "it is easier for a camel to pass through..." without any sort of fact behind or in front, causes this to quickly turn into a down poor of ignorant speech. Without any hard truths or opinions to back this statement, I am forced to take it at literal face value. Even if there are solid facts to back your statement, you have not informed me of them, so I cannot possibly relate with you, as you have not efficiently communicated your position to anyone.

You cannot say things like "is irresponsible" "selfish" "harmful to our planet" and "damaging to the heart and soul", as these are all relative concepts, are extremely limiting, are extremely sensationalist, are missing primary elements of data, and have nothing more than opinionated evidence to back them. The proper way to write opinions is to preface them with "I believe" or "my opinion is". This limits your responsibility to back your claims.

Bill and Melinda Gates are absolutely horrible examples, We did not give them the wealth, they earned the wealth through legal practices of fair trade. They are definitely not returning it to us in any tangible sense. If they are, I need a number to call, because I have yet to receive my check.

[-] 1 points by FreedomLovingProgressive (4) from San Francisco, CA 2 years ago

"You cannot say things like "is irresponsible" "selfish" "harmful to our planet" and "damaging to the heart and soul""

I can't? That's funny -- it looks like I did.

[-] 1 points by dreadsPoverty (93) from Mankato, MN 2 years ago

I am kind of curious how the Bill and Melinda Gates is returning to local economies?

[-] 1 points by FreedomLovingProgressive (4) from San Francisco, CA 2 years ago

How about giving millions to US school systems>

[-] 1 points by Peter1 (55) 2 years ago

But the unions themselves are the problem.

[-] 1 points by AWESOMEROBOT (32) from Fayetteville, AR 2 years ago

This is too broad of a statement to hold any weight.

[-] 1 points by atheve3 (34) 2 years ago

That is what rich out of touch conservatives like Rush Limbough want you to believe.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Yep. And then they will argue that corrupt CEOs, politicians, huge corporations, etc. aren't the problem.

[-] 1 points by Peter1 (55) 2 years ago

LOL. You're from Michigan. You should know better.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Right... and unions bankrupted GM. This article states some of the reasons why GM got into financial trouble...

http://theviewspaper.net/how-did-general-motors-go-bankrupt/

[-] 1 points by Peter1 (55) 2 years ago

Correct. The non-unionized carmakers in the South (Toyota, Honda, etc) are doing great and didn't need to be bailed out. You think it's a coincidence that the unionized automakers are having so much trouble and the non-unionized ones aren't?

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I haven't looked into this to compare, so I don't know if this is the case or not, but just maybe the Japanese companies pay their employers better and give them good benefits without having to have union representation. Unions were created for a reason, even if some are corrupt. They all aren't, and they were founded to protect the workers.

[-] 1 points by Peter1 (55) 2 years ago

The Japanese carmakers pay their U.S. workers $49 an hour, while the U.S. automakers pay their workers $71 an hour. So, you're wrong. However, $49 an hour isn't chump change -- that's more than I make. You could support a family on that. And best of all, it's a sustainable system. What the unions did in Michigan was create great jobs that weren't at all sustainable. So it was nice in the short term, but in the long term it destroyed the local economy. The right-to-work system is better -- slightly lower wages, but in the context of a sustainable economic system.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

One of the first things I look at and consider before making an expensive purchase or when purchasing an electronic item and other products is the warranty the manufacturer offers. If the warranty is not good, or if the manufacturer doesn't offer one at all, I assume their product to be inferior.... since they can't stand by it via a good warranty.

[-] 1 points by Peter1 (55) 2 years ago

Again, U.S. carmakers can't afford fancy warranties because all of their money goes toward labor costs.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

And the Japanese often are much more innovation with their cars.... i.e. the Prius.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

The Japanese carmakers are MUCH smarter and better at what they do. Why is it that they offer (or at least they did the last time I bought a new car) much better warranties with their cars (same for some other foreign automakers like Volkswagon), while U.S. automakers typically offer only a 3-year/30,000 mile warranty.... whichever comes first? Is it because the U.S. auotmakers think their products are garbage, and therefore, won't back them with warranties for a longer period of time or for more miles.... or is it because they want to rip people off more.... or is it both?

[-] 1 points by Peter1 (55) 2 years ago

No, it's not that the Japanese and German and Korean carmakers are smarter than their U.S. counterparts. The Big Three have been struggling for decades, despite frequent management changes. Sure, their managements have made mistakes, but so have their foreign competitors' managements.

You're right that U.S. cars kind of suck. But there's a reason for that: the unions force U.S. automakers to spend almost all of their money on labor costs. To give you some numbers, U.S. automakers spend $71 per hour per U.S. worker, while their foreign competitors spend $49 per hour per U.S. worker. The Big Three can't compete on those terms. That's why they're struggling.

Unions are also the reason that other manufacturers aren't locating to Michigan. Check out these graphs that document how much better off right-to-work states are than non-right-to-work states: http://www.mackinac.org/9422

I don't have anything against unions in the abstract. People have the right to associate with one another. However, to deny that unions are causing problems is absurd. The UAW has eviscerated Detroit and the public-sector unions have wreaked havoc on state budgets. Those are just facts.

[-] 1 points by Peter1 (55) 2 years ago

Nope, it's the truth. I recommend reading this article: http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2011/11/michael-lewis-201111

It's long (seven pages) but it's a great read. The part about public sector unions starts around page 4, I think.

Also, this is a good article documenting how much better off right-to-work states are than non-right-to-work states. http://www.mackinac.org/9422

Unions are only in it for themselves. They don't have our interests at heart -- only their own.

[-] 2 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

Several billion dollars have been spent by corporate interests to convince the US population that unions and freedom of association are 'bad.' This is selling people that collective action is against their self-interest. It is one of the fundamental scams of the last half-century. Right-to-work, means right-to-exploit and split people from solidarity. Literally, there is a multi-billion dollar anti-union industry working to make regular people not want to work collectively with their co-workers and neighbors to improve their lives. The attack on public sector unions is a new focus, after corporations spent decades trying to destroy private sector unions. Anti-unionism is a dreadful development in US history, and one that has contributed significantly to the erosion of the middle-class, and the erosion of our civil rights and personal freedoms. What right to work means is that corporations have made it harder for you as an individual to combine with other individuals in your community to collectively counter their power. Right-to-work is a tragedy for poor and working people in America, and a falsely named brand identity bought by the 1% to weaken any opposition to looting our government and our communities.

[-] 1 points by Peter1 (55) 2 years ago

You should read about what the unions have done to Detroit. Meanwhile, factory towns in states like Alabama and Tennessee are flourishing thanks to right-to-work laws.

[-] 1 points by humanbeing (8) from Olga, WA 2 years ago

regarding right to work states....i live in WA, we are a 'right to work' state. i found this out when i was fired over the phone w/ no prior warning or legitimate reason. never been fired in 30+ years. i was given no more hours, money, nothing. just "this is your last day". when i went to seek justice, there was none. companies can fire you at will right about the time you come up for full-time or benefits w/ no real reason just so they don't have to accomodate you. i checked mackinac's charts and such...according to my experience that article looks like a crock. btw, WA also has one of the highest unemployment rates in the nation. not sure how right to work states are better off....can someone give me some real reason? as far as i can see "right to work" steals employees rights and bargaining power.

[-] 2 points by Joehill (49) 2 years ago

Almost all states in the US allow firing for no reason. With the exception of some hard-fought legal protections for things like gender and racial discrimination, you can be fired for any reason, good, bad, or ridiculous. It's legal to fire you because your boss doesn't like your haircut. This is "at-will" employment. This is different from right-to-work. Right-to-work is a misleading phrase that essentially means unions are prevented from collecting dues from everyone in a shop that has voted to have union representation. It means a union can win multiple elections, and can collectively bargain with the employers, be responsible for negotiating for 100% of the workforce at a shop, but prohibited from collecting dues equally from all workers. It's an anti-democratic measure bought by massive campaign contributions from corporations and massive propaganda efforts by the 1%. The goal of corporations is to trick people into thinking that not paying union dues, after a union election, is a 'freedom' issue. The real issue is an effort by corporations to prevent any opposition from having enough leverage to fight them. Right-to-work is a scam, and likely against international human rights and labor law. It's a way to undercut collective action and try to bankrupt one of the few mechanisms that poor people have to pool their resources and balance the power gap with the 1%. Of course not all unions are great, like any human endeavor. However, tons and tons of cash has been spent to try and convince people in the US they have the "right" (right to work) to not be able to organize and fight against power. Don't drink the kool-aide.

[-] 1 points by humanbeing (8) from Olga, WA 2 years ago

thank you joehill for that clarifying response.

[-] 1 points by Peter1 (55) 2 years ago

First of all, Washington state doesn't have one of the highest unemployment rates in the country. Its rate is 9.3% (barely above the 9.1% national average). California's unemployment rate is 12%.

Right-to-work states are better off because businesses don't want to open stores or factories in states where they're going to have to deal with greedy unions that will try to extract concessions that will make their businesses uncompetitive.

[-] 1 points by sonya (1) 2 years ago

i don't understand you guys, why don't you occupy the federal reserve???? the federal reserve is the root cause of america's downfall. go to youtube and check out zeitgeist, the rothschild and bilderberg group started the federal reserve and learn about their true agenda. Occupy federal reserve bank. end the fed!

[-] 1 points by juandelacruz (5) 2 years ago

The root of this problem is the dominion of monopoly capital in the life of the working class.

[-] 1 points by georgia99 (37) 2 years ago

dont forget the rockefellers. john d rockfeller help start it all from the federal reserve to the irs code. One of the wealthiest men the world has ever seen, Rockefeller was also one of the biggest behind-the-scenes contributors to the creation of the Federal Reserve. According to Gary Allen, "The same crowd which manipulated the passage of the income tax and the Federal Reserve system wanted America in World War I. JP Morgan, John D. Rockefeller, "Colonel" House, Jacob Schiff, Paul Warburg and the rest of the Jekyll Island conspirators were all deeply involved in getting us involved."Rockefeller created America's first great "trust" in 1882. this is the father of david rockefeller

[-] 1 points by ArizonaGirl (2) 2 years ago

Don't you mean that John D. is David's grandfather?

[-] 1 points by georgia99 (37) 2 years ago

typo sorry you are right that was his grandfather

[-] 1 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 2 years ago

Union, Union, Union! Where's my Union, the Joiners and Carpenters?

[-] 1 points by sonofliberty (3) 2 years ago

Declaration of Independence and Occupation, October 3, 2011 Occupy Wall Street, Occupy Washington, Occupy Main Street, Occupy America!

When in the course of commercial events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political banks and corporations which have conned them and one another and to assume among the powers of the earth and purse, the separate and equal station of their body, minds, and purchasing power to which the Laws of Nature and Commerce and the gods of both entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of the 99% requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to financial and political independence.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men and women are created equal, that they are endowed by their creators with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and Equality --- That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men and women, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

[-] 1 points by atheve3 (34) 2 years ago

Equality is good, but Jefferson's wife wanted the wording to read as pursuit of land ownership. However, the founding fathers were afraid of blacks owning land!! Let the 99% stand strong because we r too big to fail in the face of bank fraud.

[-] 1 points by sonofliberty (3) 2 years ago

Declaration of Independence and Occupation, October 3, 2011 Occupy Wall Street, Occupy Washington, Occupy Main Street, Occupy America!

When in the course of commercial events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political banks and corporations which have conned them and one another and to assume among the powers of the earth and purse, the separate and equal station of their body, minds, and purchasing power to which the Laws of Nature and Commerce and the gods of both entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of the 99% requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to financial and political independence.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men and women are created equal, that they are endowed by their creators with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and Equality --- That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men and women, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

[-] 1 points by atheve3 (34) 2 years ago

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[-] 1 points by totn2011 (1) from Queens, NY 2 years ago

To the honorable defenders of liberty, equality, and justice, if you wish, please consider this blog as one of the resources of your ideas, discussions, and solutions for a better world tomorrow.

talesoftwonations.blogspot.com

[-] 1 points by PowerAIDS (10) from Elyria, OH 2 years ago

I am excited to see the momentum and support this movement is gaining. I wish I could join, and most certainly will, if I get the chance.

[-] 1 points by seaglass (671) from Brigantine, NJ 2 years ago

"Agitate!! Agitate!! Agitate!! " Fredrick Douglas

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by theRefugee (6) 2 years ago

Sleeping bag problem…. Lowes & Home Depot sell a 6×9 ft canvas cloth for 12.48 and Eastern Mountain Sports has a 10oz bottle of water proofing spray for about the same price… With these 2 items you now have a water proof tarp or covering for your blanket and sleeping bag. It works really good. Otherwise you’ll just be sleeping in a cold wet mess of a sleeping bag…good luck peeps! The Refugee

[-] 1 points by goatdude (13) 2 years ago

Lowes....Home Depot.....corporations indeed. vote with your feet folks...really?

[-] 1 points by Vicewatch (43) 2 years ago

If your waterproofing budget is limited, you can also try heavy duty vinyl shower curtains (99 cent stores always have these), and plastic painters tarps from hardware stores --usually just a couple bucks for either. Best to elevate the sleeping bag somehow (any old shipping pallets around there?) and make sure your curtain/tarp covering is angled so that the runoff doesn't collect on the ground near you.

[-] 1 points by goatdude (13) 2 years ago

plastic was invented by the "man" to reduce sheep power.

[-] 1 points by Vicewatch (43) 2 years ago

Sometimes you have to use the man's tools against the man. I see the environmental point here, but that can be more patronizing than helpful when quick action is needed. And you are falling into "the man's" trap of alienating and invalidating protesters because they (like everybody-including you) go into stores and buy things like iphones and laptops and pizzas and stuff from Lowes. I still buy stuff, but I also work to reform the places I buy from. Unclench your goat cheeks a little on this one, dude.

[-] 1 points by theRefugee (6) 2 years ago

Sleeping bag problem…. Lowes & Home Depot sell a 6×9 ft canvas cloth for 12.48 and Eastern Mountain Sports has a 10oz bottle of water proofing spray for about the same price… With these 2 items you now have a water proof tarp or covering for your blanket and sleeping bag. It works really good. Otherwise you’ll just be sleeping in a cold wet mess of a sleeping bag…good luck peeps! The Refugee

[-] 1 points by RichZubaty (37) from Wailuku, HI 2 years ago

Yahoo!

[-] 1 points by iamjustinian (4) 2 years ago

Guys the mainstream media just said this....this is friggin huge!!!!!

The Fed chief was asked about protests around Wall Street, which went on for an 18th day as demonstrators railed against corporate greed and expressed frustration over the economy. Bernanke replied: "I think people are quite unhappy with the state of the economy and what's happening. They blame, with some justification, the problems in the financial sector for getting us into this mess. And they're dissatisfied with the policy response here in Washington. And at some level, I can't blame them."

[-] 2 points by atheve3 (34) 2 years ago

Praise the lord and I am not even religious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[-] 1 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

A very tepid response. So typical of a Bankster up against the wall...

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I saw that on MSNBC last night.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Oh, really... he thinks some people are unhappy. What a tool he is!!!! He's one of the most guilty ones. At least he's beginning to admit HE IS responsible, as are many others.

[-] 1 points by FreedomLovingProgressive (4) from San Francisco, CA 2 years ago

Bernanke is a realist.

[-] 1 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

Ben Bernanke needs to grow a pair of balls...

[-] 1 points by AWESOMEROBOT (32) from Fayetteville, AR 2 years ago

Has there been any sort of semi accurate estimated head count so far? I've been watching the videos and the live stream, but it's hard to get an idea of the amount of people that are currently involved. This list looks like a lot of people, but it could also be just one person from each organization. If numbers are the game, I'd like to see where we stand.

[-] 2 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

Yeah it would be nice

[-] 0 points by garvan (52) from North Bergen, NJ 2 years ago

AND THE REVOLUTION IS OVER!

STAGNATION WE CAN BELIEVE IN!

[-] 0 points by lisaw (0) 2 years ago

This protest is missing the target. The problem is with the politicians who continue to grow the government. We need less government and less taxes. We need to eliminate the IRS, which happens to be unconstitutional. We need to stop policing the world. We need to get back to the basics of the Constitution. Wall Street is just doing their job. Our anger is misdirected. I have heard that some of the protesters actually want to redistribute the wealth. I'm stunned by the stupidity of this communist belief. Lets elect honest politicians who do not take money from lobbyists, and throw out the ones who let us down. Wall Street is a special interest, just like countless others. The politicians are corrupted by this extremely rich and powerful special interest group. Yet, ultimately its our elected officials to fend off special interests and make the correct decisions based on our Constitution. We must demand of them honesty. The protesters are either misinformed, misguided, or socialists/communists. Lets not blame our capitalistic way of life on this problem. Let the free markets reign, lets get rid of the federal reserve, lets stop policing the world. When we start to do this, then our country will start to prosper again. Lets get the right message together and get the best most honest people in office to carry out the demands of the people.

[-] 2 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

No, Wall Street caused, along with many politicians, the financial meltdown. Taking Wall Street out of the blame is just plain wrong and misguided. Many of those who work on Wall Street are crooks who never get prosecuted for their crimes.

[-] 2 points by tf1756 (29) 2 years ago

DC and WS are corruption aligned with each other. Separated they fall, United they divide us and keeps us fighting. Remember, the first bailout authorized by Congress in 2008, 187 billion to AIG, was to shore up the investment company that all of congress has their investments in. They only think of themselves. And to blame this all on Bush, Obama voted for the measure when he was a Senator. Clearly he and all of them in Congress are conspirators. They took yours and my money to protect their own self interests

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

And they will continue to do so until we stop them.

[-] 1 points by tf1756 (29) 2 years ago

Rightly so. We must stop the madness.

[-] 0 points by georgia99 (37) 2 years ago

dont forget the rockefellers. john d rockfeller help start it all from the federal reserve to the irs code. One of the wealthiest men the world has ever seen, Rockefeller was also one of the biggest behind-the-scenes contributors to the creation of the Federal Reserve. According to Gary Allen, "The same crowd which manipulated the passage of the income tax and the Federal Reserve system wanted America in World War I. JP Morgan, John D. Rockefeller, "Colonel" House, Jacob Schiff, Paul Warburg and the rest of the Jekyll Island conspirators were all deeply involved in getting us involved."Rockefeller created America's first great "trust" in 1882. this is the father of david rockefeller

[-] 1 points by ArizonaGirl (2) 2 years ago

Don't you mean John D. is David's grandfather?

[-] 0 points by Flsupport (578) 2 years ago

For everyone who complains about this, watch Rise of The Planet of The Apes. "Apes alone, weak. Apes together, strong." Of course, that comes right before the other ape says, "Apes, stupid" But that doesnt matter. What matters is the more people you have, the stronger you become. You are the 99% not the 99% minus anyone who happens to belong to an organization.

[-] 1 points by atheve3 (34) 2 years ago

U r a comidic but I agree!!

[-] 0 points by Thenewyorkcritic (3) from Castleton-on-Hudson, NY 2 years ago

Hey patriots Albany NY'er here with some footage I grabbed from Occupy wall street yesterday when I drove down to support the movement. Please share the video and subscribe to my youtube channel I'll have plenty more to come http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyEiIvFKVEM

[-] 0 points by Rmarks1701 (103) 2 years ago

I support you on this march, and I will be praying that it all goes down peacefully with no violence and no arrests. But to help facilitate those goals, I also hope that you have talked to the local police force and got their co-operation in this endevour. Many of the boys in blue will sympathize with your feelings of frustration, but they do have a job to do and an oath to uphold. If you have, or will approach the police forces in a spirit of co-operation and peacefulness I am sure that they will be willing to allow you to march en mass with only a minimul protective cover. But in order to protect you from rival groups, and even silly motorists, you do need to talk to them so that they can place barriers along the route of the march, close down affected roads and place such considerations as toilets, EMS personnel and police offices along the route. And as long as everything stays peaceful, you will not be aware of their presence at all. So please engage them in conversation and co-opt them to helping you plan and organize these marches. It will promote goodwill among all and will also give your message a more powerful impact.

[-] 0 points by Flsupport (578) 2 years ago

Then the boys in blue need to have their union speak out about the movement and they cannot arrest mass numbers of people.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

yep

[-] 0 points by iamjustinian (4) 2 years ago

Focus focus focus on the message. The message is the spotlight on Wallstreet and the corporate hijacking of the government. All else follows...even the assholes in Cobb County GA are with you on this

[-] 0 points by PaulRevere2011 (6) from Frenchtown, NJ 2 years ago

Don't forget the CHEM TRAILS!!! They are poisoning us in Tucson, Arizona at 5:40pm as I write this. Google - What in the world are they spraying? Good Luck - God Bless America.

[-] 1 points by lisa (425) 2 years ago

There are people who are going to get a lot worse than that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNFHokseg08&feature=related

When a big earthquake goes off in the New Madrid Fault Zone, 14-15 million people will die. While the region is normally active seismically, HAARP may help set it off, as will the fracking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8H5o6AnwW0&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIF-h34_uuQ&feature=related Part II

[-] 1 points by AWESOMEROBOT (32) from Fayetteville, AR 2 years ago

I can't tell if you're joking or not.

[-] 0 points by PaulRevere2011 (6) from Frenchtown, NJ 2 years ago

Don't forget the CHEM TRAILS!!! They are poisoning us in Tucson, Arizona at 5:40pm as I write this. Google - What in the world are they spraying? Good Luck - God Bless America.

[-] 1 points by mdenten (2) from Tucson, AZ 2 years ago

Im pretty sure that was a dust storm...