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We kick the ass of the ruling class

DC, Other Cities Liberate Unoccupied Buildings for the 99%

Posted 2 years ago on Nov. 19, 2011, 6:38 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

Occupied Franklin School

Today, Occupy K St./DC liberated the empty, city-owned Franklin School. The school was closed several years ago and initially reopened as a homeless shelter. Despite widespread public opposition, the city government later closed the shelter. Next -- in blatant disregard of social safety net programs that are necessary for the very survival of the people who are most directly impacted by economic injustice -- announced plans to turn the building either into luxury condos or a hotel for the 1% lobbyists on K St.

In a move similar to other recent building occupations in Oakland, Chapel Hill, New York, and London, dozens of occupiers entered the building with sleeping bags and food and declared their intent to stay indefinitely. Occupy DC announced plans for an open forum to be held at a church next Monday to discuss uses of the building with the public. Inside, they began cleaning the building to make it usable for the community. From the roof, occupiers chanted "We are the 99%!" as others dropped a banner reading "Public Property under Community Control” over the school. Meanwhile, hundreds rallied in support outside.

Police -- including the Metropolitan Police and federal Protective Services -- responded with full force. A massive police presence blocked all of 13th St and declared the area a "crime scene." Police then moved into the building and arrested all inside, carrying out people cuffed at the arms and legs. Some protesters banged on the police vans from inside and outside, while others tried to block the vehicles altogether. Police declared they would charge all those inside with unlawful entry, and threatened others with felony charges if they interfered.

Occupations across the world have recently adopted the tactic of taking over unoccupied buildings. In New York, students and allies occupied New School buildings and dropped leaflets and banners from inside during the N17 Day of Action. They continue to occupy buildings on campus.

In North Carolina and Oakland, protesters occupied vacant downtown buildings. As described by Occupy Chapel Hill:

In the midst of the first general strike to hit the US since 1946, a group of comrades occupied a vacant building in downtown Oakland, CA. Before being brutally evicted and attacked by cops, they taped up in the window a large banner declaring, “Occupy Everything…”

On Nov. 12 at about 8pm, a group of about 50 – 75 people occupied the 10,000 square foot Chrysler Building on the main street of downtown Chapel Hill. Notorious for having an owner who hates the city and has bad relations with the City Council, the giant building has sat empty for ten years. It is empty no longer.

Chrysler Building occupied in Chapel Hill

In all four cities, building occupations were met with brutal police action. However, in the U.K., members of Occupy London have occupied a vacant office building owned by a subsidiary of the Swiss Bank, UBS. The protesters have announced their intention to stay in the building under British squatter's rights laws.

occupied building in London

243 Comments

243 Comments


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[-] 12 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

Very soon occupy will have empty state and government buildings offered to them for their use. MSNBC TV Chris Hayes is doing a great job of reporting the movement. The Americans are watching.

[-] 5 points by Unvarnished (9) 2 years ago

The world is watching.

[-] 8 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

President Obama shows no signs of treating Occupy Wall Street the way FDR treated the Bonus Marchers in 1934. Nobody expects Michelle Obama to pay a surprise visit to an Occupy Wall Street site any time soon. But as Occupy Wall Street regroups, the movement need not fear that the surprise attack on it – personally authorised by New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg – has diminished its influence. According to a 15 November Siena College poll, by a 57-40% margin, New Yorkers think Occupy Wall Street should be allowed in public parks around the clock.

[-] 2 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

It was always a mistake ti compare FDR to Obama. Their historical context and background are very different. FDR grew up understanding his intrinsic worth vis a vis society because he came from wealth. He had nothing to prove to the affluent set and his wealth was cause for his compassion, as he is said to have taken earnest interest in the lifestyles of other people. Our President and the First Lady were formerly corporate attorneys who have risen through the ranks of society and into one of the most exclusive stations in society. The President kow tows to business therefore, allegedly describing Jamie Dimon as a great businessman...hmmm.

[-] 1 points by aeturnus (231) from Robbinsville, NC 2 years ago

I walked into a chain bookstore one time. I walked towards the management section. So many books on management with Obama's name on the front cover.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Evidently misfiled. Should have been in the comedy section. Our oversight.

[-] 1 points by Allien60601 (4) 2 years ago

Check out this amazing pictorial summary of the United States presidents and their accomplishments over the 200+ years and what they stood for and Obama is stepping on the Constitution. Great interactive painting and watch the video with the artist explanation. http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/artwork/view_zoom/?artpiece_id=379

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[-] -1 points by 99watching (15) 2 years ago

"Police then moved into the building and arrested all inside, carrying out people cuffed at the arms and legs."

Looking forward to seeing this !!!

[-] -2 points by edwardsdna (0) 2 years ago

It is time to call for the resignation of Pres Obama, local, state & federal government officials for crimes against the people.

[-] 1 points by Salaam86 (161) from Springfield, IL 2 years ago

division troll.

[-] 1 points by lalitaji (2) 2 years ago

Good Grief!

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

yes it is

[-] -1 points by sowhatareyougoingtodoaboutit (95) 2 years ago

Could you please explain to me what those crimes are?

And could you please tell me what high school you graduated from, because I don't believe that with a brain like yours, you could have passed the first grade.

[-] 2 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Why do u ask which high school he graduated from if u don't believe he passed the first grade? At least be clever with your insults.

[-] 3 points by 1dw (4) 2 years ago

if we're going to get technical, not passing first grade and not passing high-school are not mutually exclusive. there are actually two insults in one there. the first is, 'i doubt you passed high school', and the next is, 'you may not even have passed first grade'.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Your so on it.

[-] 1 points by stevemiller (1062) 2 years ago

Bribes.

MY insults aren't clever either. Bribes. Then there are bribes.

[-] 1 points by sowhatareyougoingtodoaboutit (95) 2 years ago

Let's get real- everybody passes first grade regardless of if they should or not.

High school, now that's a different story.

I don't necessarily think he didn't manage to graduate, just trying to make a point.

[-] 2 points by buphiloman (840) 2 years ago

Those crimes are: numerous violations of the 1st, 4th, and 8th Amendments to the US Constitution. Non-violent protesters have FULL civil rights.

[-] 1 points by Allien60601 (4) 2 years ago

The OWS 99% movement group need to start a "VOTE OUT DC POLITICIANS" petition, just like the Bank of America debit card fee petition started by Molly Katchpole, and the bank backed down. We could all sign up and pledge to vote everybody out of office in the next election, and vote for the candidates that will sign a pledge that they will represent the 99% people movement demands. (which yet to be formulated) That's the only way we can peacefully clean out corruption at all levels of government federal and state. Simplify, abolish or modify the laws so society can function again free as it was designed by our forefathers.

[-] 1 points by swagmonkey (4) from Malden, MA 2 years ago

See, a call for "vote out DC politicians" just gives the politicians (all of them) more reason to vote AGAINST the movement's aims. Totally useless. Now, if you want to propose alternative candidates, specific people who agree with you, that might be valid. But just a blanket statement about getting rid of every politician in DC is not only useless, but also counterproductive in terms of every goal the Occupy movement has ever had.

[-] 1 points by foundingbaby (15) 2 years ago

His crimes are non specific "violations"? Please offer link, evidence, more data...

Also, go read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

Sorry, but you make no sense. Try harder next time, okay?

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[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Why don't you just close down the OWS protest site, put up a large church tent and a few parish houses and find out for yourself about those FULL civil rights you think you have.

[-] 1 points by stevemiller (1062) 2 years ago

Bribes.

What high school did you go to? Did you pass the 1st grade?

[-] 1 points by graywolfaa (1) 2 years ago

Some of the blogger's on this site only prove the statement that there is an "Idiot born every minute"! This individual is one of them!

[-] 1 points by sowhatareyougoingtodoaboutit (95) 2 years ago

And obviously you are also describing yourself.

The power void left by the resignation of President Obama would be a thousand times worse then the situation right now. Any idiot advocating for Obama's removal of office has their priorities in the wrong order.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Oh, I hope he doesn't resign - then we get Joe, the mouth, to lead us. We're doomed either way, aren't we.

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[-] 0 points by riversideCA (9) 2 years ago

why would u spend your time, here... poor thing. have u no friends?

[-] -1 points by zorno (386) 2 years ago

These are some of the crimes that Obama is accused of:

  1. Violation of the Constitutional provision that Congress has the unique responsibility to declare war.

  2. President Barack Obama has violated this provision of the Constitution flagrantly, with the avowed assassination of at least three American citizens, Anwar Al-Awlaki, his 16-year-old son, and Samir Khan, without benefit of due process of law.

  3. President Barack Obama has violated this provision of the U.S. Constitution by continuing, and even expanding, the Bush/Cheney Admnistration's program of warrantless interception by the National Security Agency of the electronic communications of millions of Americans.

Four other counts are listed at the following site:

http://www.larouchepac.com/node/20212

[-] 1 points by swagmonkey (4) from Malden, MA 2 years ago

Wait, when did Obama ever declare war on anyone or anything? The wars he's involved in all began under Bush.

[-] 0 points by zorno (386) 2 years ago

That would be the war in Libya, and the problem is that he never declared the war. Congress is the entity that is supposed to declare wars

[-] 1 points by stevemiller (1062) 2 years ago

Bribes.

MY insults aren't clever either. Bribes. Then there are bribes.

[-] 2 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 2 years ago

The world is rolling their eyes.

[-] 2 points by forOWS (161) 2 years ago

Actually, if you watch any significant source for news other than FOX, the world is with the OWS protests because a lot of this really had its beginnings in Europe. France. Spain. Italy. Greece would be the best example.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Greece is the best example by far - and do you have a prediction how that will come out?? Just asking because if we are following their lead (they are ahead of us), I would like to see how it comes out for them so that I can implement plans to be gone, when this country gets there.

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[-] 1 points by crapy (8) 2 years ago

Oh! a big fat troll with an hairy butt!

Don't bother it does not work. You are too obvious with your multiple personas and fake opinions.

By the way I saw your posts in other forums writing the same shit.

Jimmy44, nikka, me2= One Troll.

Just tell me who pay you. BOA? How much do you make?

[-] 1 points by swagmonkey (4) from Malden, MA 2 years ago

crapy - Much as I disagree with Jimmy44, your post only makes things worse. There are real people who disagree -- in fact, there might even be more than the three of them you want to think are only one person because they say similar things. When you claim they must be paid by BOA to make posts like this, you don't make Jimmy44 less credible. No, mostly you just make your own posts seem less reasonable.

So, I think Jimmy44 is dead wrong in his original post, but you've gone well beyond any reasonable guesses about him and ultimately discredited yourself most of all.

[-] 1 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Sorry Mr Conspiracy Theorist, there is only one Jimmy44, and that is the only login I have here. Always the same though - when a few people don't agree with you, it's never because their opinion is just as valid as yours, noooo, it's always the same responses; they're all the same person, they're paid trolls, they're CIA/police etc.. very very rarely does any one of you fucking neanderthals take the time to actually discuss it. Only one person has in this entire website so far - a guy from Alaska named Turtle, and he made some very good points. The rest of you are just a pack of whining entitlement morons, and you have given me no reason to think otherwise.

[-] -1 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

You seem to spend an awfully large amount of time on here just to complain and antagonize others.

How about offering constructive criticism instead? Maybe your reception wouldn't be as cold if you suggested improvements instead of just hating on what is.

[-] 1 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Oh I've done that, and got abused for it. Since abuse is all you understand, that is how I will communicate. Now kindly go fuck yourself.

[-] -1 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

NO U

[-] 1 points by ComunistUSA (58) 2 years ago

Is he not a member of the 99% you represent? Do you have to agree with OWS to be considered the 99%? If that's the case I believe your group would be more like the .000005%

[-] 1 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Thanks.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Hey - wipe your nose and brush away the hair you picked up from his ____.

Pay? How much? What are you doing, looking for a better job??

[-] 0 points by coolnyc (216) from Stone Ridge, NY 2 years ago

And how do you live with yourself?

[-] -1 points by forOWS (161) 2 years ago

Rove and Company. Money funneled from the Kochs to pay trolls.

[-] 2 points by zoe (67) 2 years ago

The world is waking.

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[-] 0 points by raines (699) 2 years ago

No, they're not.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

Yes the world is watching but this is our country not the worlds. American voters are watching.

[-] 3 points by Ghassan (6) 2 years ago

Yes it's your country yet the whole world will get affected soon. I mean all these are Symptoms of the big collapse of the entire corrupt system.

[-] 1 points by stevemiller (1062) 2 years ago

Bribes.

MY insults aren't clever either. Bribes. Then there are bribes.

[-] 1 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Oh look, a xenophobe.

[-] -2 points by nikka (228) 2 years ago

The world has had it with the tantrums already.

[-] 1 points by aeturnus (231) from Robbinsville, NC 2 years ago

I hope they are watching. And I hope Chris Hayes, or whoever reporter reports on it, starts asking questions like, "Why isn't the government rallying support for such buildings be used for community projects?" or "Why is the government removing community project support for luxury condos or lobby groups?" Unfortunately, I don't watch MSNBC, so I don't know.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

msnbc is the only channel on the tube that I have found that backs OWS protesters

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[-] 1 points by jenga5 (6) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

Pretty sad the Occupy peons have to sleep in vacant buildings as their leaders sleep in the lap of luxury: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/wall_street_cra_pad_s31YWPjPTt0TYuxLGnu7IK

[-] 1 points by jenga5 (6) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

Very soon, USCitizenVoter will be joined by aliens, that will swoop down, destroy all of his enemies in the blink of an eye, and take USCitizenVoter back to the silly little planet where he came from.

[-] -1 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

jenga5 is a troll who got a account today to post silly comments on OWS web site

[-] 1 points by JosephCouture (45) 2 years ago

People often say the truth hurts and the painful reality is that the Occupy movement in London, Ontario sank itself. Torn apart by internal strife, fear and a disastrous public relations strategy, their group efforts quickly evaporated with the morning dew on their now empty campsite.

Read about how it all went wrong here:

www.josephcouture.com “How To Blow a Revolution- The London Model.”

[-] 1 points by Thisisthetime (200) from Kahlotus, WA 2 years ago

Excellent Idea. Share Our Common Spaces. Keep Up the Creative Action. Fair-ness.

[-] -1 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

Three cheers for occupy oakland. They had a great night.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

Love all the MSNBC guys. Don't forget Keith Olbermann on Current TV. Great coverage there too.

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[-] -1 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

I love ya JadedCitizen

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

Blushing.

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[-] 0 points by raines (699) 2 years ago

Americans are not watching, neither is the world.

[-] 0 points by Farleymowat (415) 2 years ago

Nobody watches msnbc, except for those cop shows, and lockedup, prison shows on the weekend. The weekly news shows have no viewers.

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[-] 4 points by jane1 (100) 2 years ago

Awesome job OWS! The US and the world believes!! The tea has got to be the worst party in history! At least OWS is doing it for a true cause! You people actually stood up in council meetings over false accusations on Heath care reform. Death panel, really..make a copy of the actual page, paragraph and article number of the page- notarized! I bet you can’t find it, go ahead and try-do it. You can’t because it’s false!! Your lies will catch up to you GOP/tea, indep…. but for now continue to be the puppet feeding lies for a vote!! That’s what this party does is lie and mislead for greed, power, self preservation and a vote while the US suffers. Your comments to OWS by GOP/tea-indep., get a job take a bath!! Defecation in the park, noise level really, stated by Mayor of NY, “UNFOUNDED ALLEGATIONS,” in other words no proof of it!! That’s all you do is lie and mislead! Do you think those kids liked to be in the cold, on the ground. They are educated people fighting for a cause but of course you would not know about that.- Your cause is limited government gee I wonder why? Correction I already know! Look at the current Congress you put in!! Any one who follows the tea must be uneducated or have an alternative agenda. The thought of you all of you GOP/tea, indep. running the whole country is the worst, sickest idea in the history of the United States of America!

[-] 3 points by WhatsUpCam (5) 2 years ago

Hey, I voted for Obama in 2008, and I really like the OWS movement... but do any of you really even know what the tea party stands for? a good majority of them are against wasteful government spending and want the people to have a say in where the tax payers money goes... so i don't know why everyone is always bashing them... they are almost like defected Republicans because they see the Bullshit themselves in their own party and want it to end.... The problem is elected officials, not american people.

And also as I stated earlier... I voted for Obama and that mistake will not happen again due to the fact that the most that man has done was honor the 1985 chicago bears at the white house in the last 3 years. We had a recession and massive job losses in 2008. It is 2011 and now he wants to create a jobs bill? It's for his re-election and you are blind if you can't see that. Also if you think Obama is supporting this movement, or if you think that this is a left wing movement, then why is obama OPENLY IGNORING IT. The man has said more about the protests in MYNAMAR, SYRIA, and YEMEN then in his own country.

So for all of you bashing "lefties" and "righties" You are just showing your ignorance as a stuipd american. THATS THE GAME THEY WANT YOU TO PLAY. STOP PICKING SIDES!!! THE PROBLEM IS THE CORRUPT SHIT HEADS IN CONGRESS WHETHER THEY ARE DEMS OR REPS.

[-] 1 points by swagmonkey (4) from Malden, MA 2 years ago

WhatsUpCam -- here's my opinion of the Tea Party:

They're respectable people with legitimate concerns about the government, but who are unfortunately too gullible to serve their own cause well. They believe too much of what their political rally leaders on the far right tell them. The Tea Party has been hijacked by big money interests, and hasn't realized it yet.

Tea Party: You claim to be upset about a big government that bailed out big banks and other big companies. You'd prefer a small government that didn't spend so much on big business, and that would let the banks fail if they were ready to fail, instead of stepping in with taxpayer money. So far you're together with OWS.

But, for solutions to these problems, you advocate letting the free market decide everything. Keeping the government out of the way. Do you know what these policies ACTUALLY do when you implement them? They allow all the big money interests to gain MORE control over the legislature. They take MORE of the power AWAY from every day people like many in both the tea party and OWS. When the government doesn't regulate the markets, the bigger companies crowd out the little ones, and we get less and less of a REAL free market. And less and less influence people without a lot of money can have on the market, or on the government which is meant to keep them in check.

You call them "defected Republicans", but that's what some of the leaders who have hijacked the movement want you to think. They haven't defected from the Republican party, they're just forming a new wing of it. Look at all the candidates the Tea Party has helped elect. Have you ever seen a democrat among them? I can't think of one (I'll listen if you have an exception.)

I think the Tea Party are well-meaning, but terribly misguided. They want many of the same things as OWS, and grew out of the same anger at the status quo in the government, but their way of expressing that anger ultimately is having the opposite effect because they believe too much in the right-wing leaders who have jumped on the bandwagon and taken hold of the reins.

[-] 1 points by suyabaa01 (244) from Milford, CT 2 years ago

I second WhatsUpCam. If anyone has any doubts, watch this video:

G. Edward Griffin, "The Collectivist Conspiracy" [1:25 hr]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAdu0N1-tvU

Parties have their agenda. We the People are here to elect the winner party (to some extend) so that they can collect the fruits of this nation. Otherwise parties have nothing to with us. WAKE UP PEOPLE.

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[-] 1 points by Salaam86 (161) from Springfield, IL 2 years ago

Maybe you people should start attending our events.

[-] 2 points by lalitaji (2) 2 years ago

Please re-read, then you might want to re-state...

[-] 1 points by forOWS (161) 2 years ago

In a recent poll, the Tea Party was more despised than the Taliban.

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[-] -2 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 2 years ago

In a recent poll, OWS was more despised than the Tea Party, by a ratio of 9,568,145 to 1. Of course the 1 was just a control.

[-] 2 points by forOWS (161) 2 years ago

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/17/op...tea-party.html in data we have recently collected, the Tea Party ranks lower than any of the 23 other groups we asked about — lower than both Republicans and Democrats. It is even less popular than much maligned groups like “atheists” and “Muslims.” Interestingly, one group that approaches it in unpopularity is the Christian Right. ...

[-] 0 points by Salaam86 (161) from Springfield, IL 2 years ago

Yeah, pretty much everybody hates the Tea Party.

[-] 0 points by SelfReliant (94) 2 years ago

The public defecation and urination sure seem educated Jane. Really?

[-] 2 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Is it not absurd to dwell on public defecation when we are in the throes of some of the worst environmental catastrophes known to man. How much reporting is being done about environmental conditions in the Gulf AFTER almost five millions barrels of oil spilled into it?

[-] 1 points by SelfReliant (94) 2 years ago

Indeed. That was a horrible disaster, one of the worst in years, something that all humans must deplore. As a society, we must strive toward making modern technologies benign toward the environment. My guess is that a kretin that would revel in public dedication and urination is not going to be the man for the job.

[-] -1 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

Stop with the Obama I love you rants... it's sickening.

[-] -2 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 2 years ago

OK who let Jane1 out of her cage?

[-] 3 points by owstag (508) 2 years ago

That's pretty stupid actually; the buildings haven't been occupied for years and could well have safety issues. If they were to be legally occupied they'd have to inspected for safety prior to opening. Dumb. Really dumb.

[-] 3 points by nikka (228) 2 years ago

Police Win. OWS Loses. What a shocker.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post_now/post/occupy-dc-protesters-claim-vacant-franklin-school/2011/11/19/gIQAXaDGcN_blog.html

Authorities removed protesters Saturday evening from an abandoned school in downtown Washington that had been entered by members or sympathizers of the Occupy D.C. movement.

By 7:15 p.m. 11 people had been brought out of the city-owned Franklin School and placed in a police van as protesters pounded on the vehicle from both inside and outside.

It was not clear if anyone remained inside. Earlier, it appeared that about a dozen people went into the three-story building, unfurling a large black banner from the roof of the three-story building, and vowing to stay inside the school until it is converted for community use.

The protesters said they had enough food and other provisions to stay “indefinitely” but police and firefighters broke into a back door about 5:30 p.m. and cleared the building.

[-] 1 points by KishinD (9) 2 years ago

hahaha. As if arrests meant losing. It's been two months. The Tea Party has had roughly three years and hasn't managed a fraction of the support. This is #Occupy pre-game. We haven't even properly begun yet.

Occupy can only lose if we admit defeat. And believe me, if you're already tired of hearing about OWS in the news, you're in for a loooooong year.

[-] 1 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/18/poll-tea-party-occupy-movement_n_1100344.html

"WASHINGTON (RNS) In a war between the Tea Party and the Occupy Wall Street movement to capture the hearts of Americans, who wins? According to a new poll, it's a draw.

Less than a third of Americans say either movement represents their values, according to a poll released Wednesday (Nov. 16) by the Public Religion Research Institute in partnership with Religion News Service.

One thing, however, is clear: neither movement can make a strong claim to speak for Americans. Near identical majorities say neither movement represents their values -- 57 percent for the Tea Party, and 56 percent for Occupy Wall Street."

Note that that is from the November 18 2011 edition at Huffington Post. So I think you might want to rethink your position on how much of the so called "99%" is actually behind OWS.

[-] 1 points by SelfReliant (94) 2 years ago

Doubt it. It is becoming annoying for a growing number of people. The whole "Take from those with more than us and then give it to is" mantra is not playing well.

[-] 1 points by tuneup03 (10) 2 years ago

the mantra isn't take from those who have more and give it to us... it's punish those who fucked everything up for us and stop the bullshit. BIG difference.

[-] 1 points by nikka (228) 2 years ago

"The Tea Party has had roughly three years and hasn't managed a fraction of the support."

Umm, you ARE aware that the Tea Party won multiple elections in 2010 and now has several members of Congress, right? They are actually making laws now.

[-] 0 points by lalitaji (2) 2 years ago

Yup, ain't that scary?

[-] 0 points by ForwardWeGo (99) 2 years ago

And as a group of 15 have received 3.6 million in big corporate lobby money so where's the justice in that? No doubt their "laws" are in favor of the criminal element of the 1% and idiots like you don't realize they are about to up taxes on your sorry ass and the rest of the 99% while keeping the rate low for their ass masters. Smart teatards will hopefully wake up and join us in ousting all of them regardless of party.

[-] 1 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

ForwardWeGo...did you actually write that you want to oust them all regardless of party?

Many of us who at this moment don't support the Occupy Movement don't because we believe that it is the politicians who are ultimately responsible for all of this - and that you should be occupying DC and not Wall Street and Ports on the West Coast.

And about that Corporate money........January 1 2011 - "In 2010, corporations helped fill the campaign coffers of senior House Democrats scrambling to fend off a Republican tide in November. Now that Republicans have won a House majority, some companies are pivoting and writing checks from their political action committees to the 63 new Republicans who take House seats Wednesday. http://articles.sfgate.com/2011-01-01/business/26353884_1_campaign-finance-republican-tide-ge-spokesman

And most corporations hedge their bets by spreading around the bribe money - here's the current stat of General Electrics donations.

Top Recipients, 2011-2012 Candidate Amount Obama, Barack (D) $24,300 Romney, Mitt (R) $23,000 Berman, Howard L (D-CA) $20,860 Brown, Scott P (R-MA) $15,400 Whitehouse, Sheldon (D-RI) $11,415

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000125

But here's the rub - they can't bribe the politicians if the politicians don't accept the money.....

Vote them all out of office - Occupy DC not Wall Street.

[-] 1 points by ForwardWeGo (99) 2 years ago

First of all, DC is being occupied by 2 cooperating citizen groups and has been since September. Both efforts have been progressing quite well in developing a voice for the 99%. I had the opportunity to spend time in both encampments during October and the general assemblies are exciting to be a part of. In my humble opinion I believe that the a maturing movement will inevitably land there sometime in Summer 2012 and grow to very large numbers by election day. Rumors are that this plan is in the works, so hopefully we will see that. As for candidates and incumbents, I personally am in the process of studying those that I will support regardless of party affiliation and yes, unfortunately in many cases it will end up to be the lesser of evils. Even though I vote in NY we should be encouraged by folks like Elizabeth Warren and support those candidates of her ilk. I could go on, but you appear to have a good sense for vetting. Let's not underestimate the power of this movement nor "label" it as left, right or middle as it will certainly morph around youthful foundations and hopefully encompass the need for responsible non-corrupt governance as it should. God Bless and God Speed to this Awakening

[-] 2 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

And as long as those protests in DC are not about causing so much chaos as to destabilize the economy and therefore our system of government in order to usher in national direct democracy and smash capitalism, they have my support for their right to assemble and protest.

These DC protests were planned before OWS began even though they are now cooperating. Originally the DC groups planned protests against the use of drone and the Keystone Pipe line - Not Wall Street itself or Capitalism.

http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2011/10/07/live-blog-for-occupywallstreet-day-21-planned-dc-occupation-underway/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/21/tar-sands-pipeline-protest-photo_n_932495.html#s334710&title=Bill_Mckibben_Arrested

http://www.worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5755:needed-political-protest-that-breaks-out-of-business-as-usual&catid=117:homepage&Itemid=289

The focus is not - as you appear to imply in your above post - to reform campaign financing and the tax code - both of which are really the cause of most of the ills we now experience.

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[-] 0 points by me2 (534) 2 years ago

"vacant" and "abandoned" are two different things, bill.

[-] 2 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

not if u don't have a home.

[-] 1 points by caitlin54 (9) 2 years ago

Reading these comments, it is evident the difference in education levels among those who are for, and those who are against this movement. It seems many of those who are huge supporters have no knowledge of grammar, proper punctuation and have very limited vocabularies. If you want people to agree with your absurd propositions learn to spell. No one wants to listen to a lazy, uneducated individual. Is it really so difficult to type 'you' as oppossed to 'u' ?

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

That is a petty critique. What I find of the naysayers is that their posts are lacking in substance.

[-] 1 points by caitlin54 (9) 2 years ago

There you go! Forming a proper thought and using real words isn't really that difficult.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Not for me...now your turn.

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 2 years ago

Yes, even if you don't have a home, the English language still holds separate meaning for the two terms.

Not having a home is a truly unfortunate situation. I seriously doubt any of the people who broke into this building were in that situation.

If homelessness is your concern there are wonderful organizations already in existence who do tremendously effective work in helping the homeless. Wonderful, caring people contribute their time, money, energy to help. They take effective actions.

I fail to see what breaking into a vacant building does to help the homeless.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

I fail to see why We the People should tolerate closing down schools and turning them in to condos. You are incorrect, once a person is evicted from their home it is not simple to find another home. I imagine that perhaps you are talking about Habitat for Humanity? There are so many vacant building across the nation that it is absurd that people are out of house and home.

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 2 years ago

I didn't even come close to saying it is simple for a homeless person to find another home. I am saying that the people who broke into this building aren't homeless nor are they helping the homeless, so trying to portray them as advocates for the homeless is disingenuous. I'm also saying that if they really want to help the homeless, there are more effective ways to go about it than breaking into a building.

Nor did I say we should tolerate closing down schools but there are certainly times when a school district may legitimately need to shed some of its real estate holdings for whatever reason.

At the end of the day, committing the crime of breaking and entering a vacant building with the intention of "camping" in that building does not help homeless people in any way, and claiming that it does is a lame attempt to justify the crime.

[-] 3 points by nikka (228) 2 years ago

It seems to me as if the OWS agenda has been reduced to:

1) Squatting 2) Fighting the police who come to evict you from squatting.

Now that's what I call a transformative agenda. Visionary, I tell ya. Visionary.

[-] 4 points by JProffitt71 (222) from Colorado Springs, CO 2 years ago

It seems that way sometimes, but certainly it is also at least changing discussion in this country and providing an environment where change can be implemented.

[-] 1 points by caitlin54 (9) 2 years ago

You tell me how this is going to bring about positive change and not an increase in crime? On my way home from work one morning (I was working a Christmas Party and was trying to hail a can at 3am on a Saturday) I happened to walk past a Occupy Movement.. filled with people high on drugs and harassing those who were passing by (most people who were on their way home from work). Great work, kids.

[-] 1 points by Meesa (173) from New York, NY 2 years ago

It is also dividing people. Some of my friendships have become strained as we share our increasingly divided views on the Occupy strategy. (Mind you, we often share identical end goals -- but it's the OWS strategy that's dividing us.) Dare I say there will be a Civil War in this country again if Occupy continues to embrace Communist imagery and refuses to think outside the box (just because other social movements used violence or civil disobedience doesn't mean our generation has to…).

[-] -1 points by nikka (228) 2 years ago

It's providing an environment that is going to precipitate a backlash. They haven't moved the ball forward at all.

[-] 4 points by JProffitt71 (222) from Colorado Springs, CO 2 years ago

I don't see how you reach that conclusion. This is only gaining support with time, and crackdowns have been only fueling it, as a previous post points out. Even if it can be defeated in some areas, it is so widespread and dynamic that there is no way it couldn't adapt.

I just don't agree with you, these are real people who want real change, they aren't going away.

Edit: No that isn't enough, I'm annoyed. People are fucked without this, period. Anything that is going to save our collective asses is going to come out of this movement or some derivative of it. The snark needs to stop, it ain't classy.

[-] 1 points by Meesa (173) from New York, NY 2 years ago

JProffitt, I support overhauling our "system," from foodways to the economic system. What I don't support is the vagueness of OWS. As an OWS supporter, what is YOUR vision for a better world? I know you can't speak for all of OWS -- but individually, what specific changes would you make? Seriously -- I, and many others who are "on the fence," would appreciate some concrete discussion. Do you want to literally remove all current politicians from Federal offices? Do you want to dismantle the current political structure altogether? If so, replace it with what? Do you want to ban gasoline and convert all power sources to solar and wind? I'm gathering "best practices for a better world" and invite your thoughts.

[-] 2 points by tuneup03 (10) 2 years ago

Random chimer-inner. I think the changes in society need to happen from the inside out. I think that federal/political structure changes will probably come after substantial changes are made by the people in society... once society changes substantively enough the dinosaurs will be ousted and the structure will be forced into a change. The changes by people in society, I feel, are moving toward a more community and resource/skill based economy because this is what works when you're fucking poor and don't have throwaway money. Things like alternative power sources as you mentioned are really smart... in my community, the biofuel companies are actually very successful because their rates for biofuel are equivalent and even cheaper at times than the oil/gasoline in our area. The biofuel company was formed by people in the community and is supported by things such as local restaurants donating veg. oil, so on. it seems like a small thing, but it's just one example of how people can rebel against the system in a simple way that helps everyone... and actually works because it's cost efficient and sustainable, and not only that, it supports members of the community that you see every day. I think the more people get involved in this kind of stuff the less corporate stuff seems appealing (this has been true for me, at the least... i can't stand going to corporate stores / restaurants /etc anymore when community-made stuff is better quality, generally cheaper, and supporting friends of mine) and THAT is what will make the most impact on the market... it will push the corporations out by the power of people making jobs for THEMSELVES and then by that hand, the government may try to fight it (and they have already, by making it VERY DIFFICULT for small business owners), but the more innovative and grassroots kind of companies become wide spread it will be unstoppable and things will have to change. Why? Because people WANT to feel productive and like they MATTER and as soon as they take advantage of their own agency... fuck the government, you know?

that's just my two cents and what i feel OWS is about. it is a dialogue that i want to see presented more clearly by OWS, as i can tell it is figuring into their strategy, but not everyone sees it and not every action reflects it. though the purpose of the protest being to raise awareness and build community has been successful and positive... i think they have already built a reasonably successful microsociety... the key is now to start bringing these things into reality... but it won't happen overnight. A lot more pressure needs to be put on the status quo and is... I mean, think about it -- the primary reason we haven't gone into alternative energy already (just to use that example) is because the government relies on the oil companies and doesn't want to fund sustainable energy. Well F that, we're tired of being ripped of... sustainable energy is starting to be cheaper and the only people who are going to care about it are the groundlings down here, so let's just do it... help the world, stop funding the oil companies, and create some jobs along the way. it's that simple.

Just allow people to live their lives... why is that such a crazy demand?

[-] -2 points by nikka (228) 2 years ago

It's NOT gaining support. It's LOSING it rapidly. The polls are all out there for you to read.

[-] 1 points by forOWS (161) 2 years ago

Whatever FOX news polls you were looking at are obviously wrong. Most Americans are in favor of what OWS is protesting. Real Americans. Not people who sit around all day watch FAUX News.

[-] 1 points by JProffitt71 (222) from Colorado Springs, CO 2 years ago

I did read the findings just now. That is no reason to shit on it, that means it needs our help more than ever.

[-] 3 points by SelfReliant (94) 2 years ago

Yep. Playing house like children. Naive and economically illiterate.

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

So can any group occupy any empty building? I did not know that was legal. Are we ending property rights?

We have are group that needs a meeting and storage space. Should we just drive around and find an empty building and take it over?

[-] 0 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

What else were those buildings being used for? You said it: they were empty.

It seems like a huge waste, property rights all things considered.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Ah you used the word property RIGHTS. The person who owns the building has the rights to that building. We don't know what their plans are or why it is vacant.

If we ask their permission and they grant it, I am OK with using the building.

[-] 2 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Okay, so I am watching a rerun of The Daily Show this past week and their portrayal of the schism in the Liberty Park Camp was that it was along class lines, with the more affluent hipster crowd by fact separating itself from the drum circles and the more shabbily dressed. The depiction of the rift was obviously hyperbolic. One man is asked whether he would allow the scrappy crowd to borrow his apple notebook and he clumsily describes his notebook as "private property," but asserts that people should have access to such resources. This IS the middle ground that one might hope to have in a Democratic society. Not to mention, why SHOULD everyone want or need a laptop? The post industrial economy has hurt the working class, which is comprised of "white" collar as well as "blue" collar workers. Neither has the power to influence their working environment or to make decisions about how resources and policies are meted out. This is the problem. Stakeholders cannot participate unless they stake their claim. If you get people asking the wrong questions, then the answers don't matter. Would I let another person use my laptop? No, but that does not meant that I do not want to support people having access to the resources they need. I went through college without a computer because the computers at the lab in the public library were accessible, convenient and nicer than anything I could afford. There is nothing wrong with having a commons, or with people utilizing different tools. People use what is valuable to them. It was never asked whether a person with a drum would let the people with laptops borrow their drum and that is because we do not perceive the drum as a symbol of affluence or official productivity. I can't help but believe that laptops are not just a little bit over rated in their intrinsic value. Tools are as good as for what they are used.

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

I saw the same show. I did not understant he man's statement that he was against private property not personal proterty. I do not see a distinction. Personal property is private property.

The whole thing reminded me of George Orwell's story "Animal Farm" Whenever there is revolution the new system becomes the previous system. It must be human nature, or in Orwell's case animal nature.

[-] 2 points by Kraus (19) 2 years ago

Breaking and entering. Good job.

[-] 2 points by Crimzon (91) from Arizona City, AZ 2 years ago

It all started with drawing lines and dividing lands... the world this the world that... guess what were all human and its about time people open there eyes to that one!

Occupy is just the beginning of something that could become a lot bigger in its end. Real individuals are realising we dont have to shut up and slave for a couple bucks a day! We dont have to wake up and live a paycheck to paycheck life! We definitly dont deserve to get walked all over become unemployed jobless and misplaced because of a failing economy the government created!

Though this wont happen if money did not exist poverty would cease to co-exist im tired of starving, im tired of job interviews and being denied when theres 5 openings and 100 or more people being interviewed.

What happened to being able to go out there get a job and make a living? Now its get out there and hope you get a fraction of what it cost to pay rent... good luck flipping burgers!

[-] 2 points by Vanethor (4) 2 years ago

Jimmy44, nikka... can you get me a job there?. Seems to be well paid.... with all the enthusiasm.

[-] 0 points by ComunistUSA (58) 2 years ago

have you achieved anything in your life that might make you qualified for the position?

[-] 2 points by Unvarnished (9) 2 years ago

As a medical student, I have seen the tyranny and injustice the pharmaceutical companies have imposed upon the people here in America. The government did not betray the people, but betrayed themselves, which is why we cannot let them get away with everything. Greed is the root of all evil, and I am grateful to join a movement that condemns such a trait. As sentient beings, we have the right to health and most importantly, the right to life. It will be a great honor to protest with you all.

“Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber.” -Plato

[-] 1 points by buckles (6) 2 years ago

Apparently you're still early in your medical training. MS1? maybe MS2? As for the injustices the pharma industry has imposed upon people, how about the improvements in medical care and quality of life that same pharma company has provided? As someone who has major medical issues and understands economics, I am grateful for the medical advances that have saved my life, improved my daily quality of life, and given me the help I need. The one thing that OWS does not understand is that there is no free ride. Nowhere in the world is there a free ride. Enjoy paying those med school loans under a socialized medical plan. Or even better, I encourage you to get an MD-PhD and enjoy the rigors of a ridiculously long training career for a fraction of the payout in academic medicine!

[-] 2 points by forOWS (161) 2 years ago

Oh please. Every American, except you, knows that the pharmaceutical companies are gouging all Americans for the medicines they produce. It has even made national news.

[-] 1 points by Firewolf31 (9) 2 years ago

Well please supply the news article to support your argument.

[-] 1 points by buckles (6) 2 years ago

I love how mainstream media has credibility when it suits your needs.

[-] 1 points by NewtSativa (1) from St Cloud, MN 2 years ago

And what exactly are these advances you speak of? As medicine gets 'better' the list of side effects grows. Modern medicine doesnt cure things, it treats them and then they come up with stuff to treat the side effect...after all, you cant make nearly as much $$ from cures as you can from treatments. Big Pharma and the media in general tend to demonize those who seek solutions for their medical issues that are outside their system, but say very little about those who find solutions outside the system. You say you understand economics, but have you ever actually looked at the way the medicine industry has gotten? For example, I was once in and out of the ER 3 days in a row with severe hives and not only did they never figure out why it was happening, they charged my insurance {one of the few times in my adult life that I actually had insurance} ridiculous amounts for ridiculous things, $14 to wrap my IV'ed arm in plastic wrap so I could take a shower is the one that will stick out in my mind till the day I die.

[-] 1 points by ohgazzoo (4) 2 years ago

then why can I get the same meds in other countries 500% cheaper then in the us were it was made?

[-] 1 points by buckles (6) 2 years ago

Let's start at the start: Please cite the origin of your 500% number.

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[-] 2 points by jane1 (100) 2 years ago

OWS we believe in you! PROUD Conservative, no, none, non affiliated with the Republican GOP/tea, ashamed. We recruit societies low percentage who talk about minorities ( Asians, Blacks, Gays, Latinos-Italian, Hispanics, Mexicans, Muslims, Jews, Indians), then elect a new congress that block all with no benefit too this great nation and these people blame him? Honestly, blaming the current Chief, really. You people put the current new congress in and what have they done, not one thought on you, when will you learn. The current president has done more in 3 years than the last president has done in 8. First thing when in with new Congress attack Social Security (that was funny) the majority of the tea are Seniors the GOP does not care. Stifling progress with blocking every bill that could benefit the U.S. because it affects the taxing (by a small margin with little affect, to the 1% salaries-what minus a servant!) and most importantly to gain control for a vote! You have got to be uneducated if you stand behind the GOP/tea, indep (limited or no government) no progress but a step back to the United States of America! OWS tactics are good and just. I believe!! OWS Keep up your message, the world hears you.

[-] 1 points by Firewolf31 (9) 2 years ago

Don't know why your pitching everyone's name into the hat... I don't support their ideas... So far there are only 12 occupiers here in the area of Birmingham Alabama... Going after wall street with dope, drums, throwing rocks at police, deficating on vehicles, destroying public property and squatting is not the way to go... This is the way of savages. Go after the key problems and sober up then we may actually think about giving some support here in Alabama.

[-] 2 points by jane1 (100) 2 years ago

OWS Great Job!! Awesome…The US believes in you!! To the hate filled comments by GOP/tea, indep., pathetic!! OWS, guys/gals read this article too just in case…. “Two dozen wealthy members of the group Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength are targeting members of the deficit "supercommittee" to increase their taxes.” Higher Taxes By SUSANNA KIM | ABC News – Wed, Nov 16 Good Job Guys OWS, yet the GOP/tea, indep new Congress is so greedy they won’t even comply or listen! Anything just to protect their money. Don’t blame the wealthy it’s the New Congress voting down any measure that would involve taxing (not even a its worth, minus a maid!) . The Dems have no problem with tax increase nor the Wealthy or the President it’s the new Congress Voting it down time and time again for no increase. Meanwhile their taxing is equivalent to a maid or secretary! The new Congress is the look of America if we vote or they control the United States government. For them all, with no thought or care for the United States of America.! Truly …an horrific sight OWS we are with you do not listen to the hate filled comments= GOP/tea, indep! DOWN with the GOP/tea, indep.-Corporate Greed!

[-] 2 points by Bayraba (24) 2 years ago

This battle is all about "Space". If I can take away your space to 1) Grow your own food 2) Do what you need to do to be happy, I control you completely, regardless of whatever other 'rights' you have.

Property (or a SPACE to be me) is an absolute requirement for real Freedom.

[-] 1 points by Ghassan (6) 2 years ago

I utterly agree with you Bayraba, in short there's no democracy in a monitary system. not indeed!

[-] 2 points by jane1 (100) 2 years ago

Social Security was put on the table by the new Congress voted in by the Tea!!! We told them, GOP puppets!! OWS Great Job!! Awesome…The US believes in you!! To the hate filled comments by GOP/indep., pathetic!! OWS, guys/gals read this article too just in case…. “Two dozen wealthy members of the group Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength are targeting members of the deficit "supercommittee" to increase their taxes.” Higher Taxes By SUSANNA KIM | ABC News – Wed, Nov 16 Good Job Guys OWS, yet the GOP/tea, indep new Congress is so greedy they won’t even comply or listen! Anything just to protect their money. Don’t blame the wealthy it’s the New Congress voting down any measure that would involve taxing (not even a its worth, minus a maid!) . The Dems have no problem with tax increase nor the Wealthy or the President it’s the new Congress Voting it down time and time again for no increase. Meanwhile their taxing is equivalent to a maid or secretary! The new Congress is the look of America if we vote or they control the United States government. For them all, with no thought or care for the United States of America.! Truly …an horrific sight

[-] 2 points by LeroyLinux (10) 2 years ago

I'm so proud of you!!!!

[-] 2 points by jane1 (100) 2 years ago

SS was put on the table by the new Congress voted in by the Tea!!! We told them, GOP puppets!! OWS Great Job!! Awesome… Read the article too just in case…. “Two dozen wealthy members of the group Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength are targeting members of the deficit "supercommittee" to increase their taxes.” Higher Taxes By SUSANNA KIM | ABC News – Wed, Nov 16 Good Job Guys OWS, yet the GOP/tea, indep new Congress.is so greedy they won’t even comply or listen! Anything just to protect their money. Don’t blame the wealthy it’s the New Congress voting down any measure that would involve taxing (not even a its worth, minus a maid!) . The Dems have no problem with tax increase nor the Wealthy or the President it’s the new Congress Voting it down time and time again for no increase. Meanwhile their taxing is equivalent to a maid or secretary! The new Congress is the look of America if we vote or they control the United States government. For them all, with no thought or care for the United States of America.! Truly …an horrific sight OWS we are with you do not listen to the hate filled comments= GOP/tea, indep! DOWN with the GOP/tea, indep.-Corporate Greed!

[-] 2 points by jane1 (100) 2 years ago

OWS Great Job!! Awesome… Read the article too just in case…. “Two dozen wealthy members of the group Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength are targeting members of the deficit "supercommittee" to increase their taxes.” Higher Taxes By SUSANNA KIM | ABC News – Wed, Nov 16 Good Job Guys OWS, yet the GOP/tea, indep new Congress.is so greedy they won’t even comply or listen! Anything just to protect their money. Don’t blame the wealthy it’s the New Congress voting down any measure that would involve taxing (not even a its worth, minus a maid!) . The Dems have no problem with tax increase nor the Wealthy or the President it’s the new Congress Voting it down time and time again for no increase. Meanwhile their taxing is equivalent to a maid or secretary! The new Congress is the look of America if we vote or they control the United States government. For them all, with no thought or care for the United States of America.! Truly …an horrific sight OWS we are with you do not listen to the hate filled comments= GOP/tea, indep! DOWN with the GOP/tea, indep.-Cooperate Greed!

[-] 1 points by KishinD (9) 2 years ago

FireWolf31 Sez: "Yeah and make it more costly to those of us that pay taxes... Times are tough enough without you pulling this crap...."

You're wrong. Times aren't tough, production is higher than it's ever been, and there's only two simple reasons for human suffering. One, some humans use violence against other humans. Two, people are operating under the delusion that "the rules" are fixed and immovable. The way we interact we each other is as fluid as our imaginations. We needn't allow the exploitation of people and increasingly concentrated control over available resources.

Or to put it another way... how many foreclosed houses can you drive to within an hour? People could be using those houses. Why aren't they? How many empty storefronts will you see between your home and the second closest Wal-Mart? Why are they empty? Are people not able or willing to do productive labor in those spaces? You know as well as I do that's simply not the case. Americans want to work - they want to be productive and they want to help people trade with other people. They want their families to live in houses and not in their cars.

And who is responsible for preventing this? A handful of people that make money out of thin paperwork. With this paperwork-money they have laid claim to more and more land and buildings, and they are choosing to keep these spaces unused. When people decide to use these spaces anyways, they call in the Community Goon Squad (cops) to use violence against them. Does this seem right to you?

You can bet that the people waving paper around like it MEANS something aren't going to go beat up and kidnap a family that's using one of "their" houses. So the solution is obvious. Cops are the ruling class. They are the ones who decide when the rule of law is applied and when it's suspended. More than any other group of people, #occupiers must infiltrate the minds of police officers and get them to realize how they can decide life for themselves, and how to use their power for good and not for law. When we free the minds of the police, we free ourselves. They are the guardians of the status quo - the people holding paperwork and closely guarded lists of digital numbers may THINK they're the rulers of the status quo, but they are powerless without the Community Goon Squad obeying them. This is where we need to focus our efforts as a movement. #Occupiers! Join or befriend the police.

[-] 1 points by socksonapooltable (1) 2 years ago

Trespassing and all of the other illegal acts in "solidarity" by the Occupiers have made them all seem like nothing but uneducated hooligans. Yes, you might not be protesting violently, but you are still breaking the law! This movement is becoming a disgrace. Yes, the police retaliation taking place is wrong, but two wrongs don't make a right. I respect these protesters less and less with every story I read, glorifying these brave, brave people that somehow have the time to block traffic and inconvenience everyone everywhere. Do you think the 1% are the only ones the use the Brooklyn Bridge? Get real.

[-] 1 points by dealdoctor (148) 2 years ago

Heck Yes!

[-] 1 points by Susiemcfish (1) 2 years ago

99%ers...Occupy the source of our pain...Occupy the House of Representatives!!....Occupy Washington,DC!!...Occupy the vote!!...keep on keeping on!!

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Re. " However, in the U.K., members of Occupy London have occupied a vacant office building owned by a subsidiary of the Swiss Bank, UBS. The protesters have announced their intention to stay in the building under British squatter's rights laws."

For some insights into the above ; http://www.squatter.org.uk/ .

"From The Redwood Forests to The Gulf Stream Waters .."

commune bonum est summum bonun ...

[-] 1 points by Revolthreat (6) 2 years ago

Gentrification: evidence of coporate corruption. If it is not for the people it is for the profit. Argue with my point, Systemsucker, and I ignore you. I can predict your opposing stance as I asseverate this conceit. If it is not for the peaople it is for the profit. I will not question why there are systemsuckers on this website, for we all have freedom of speech. Why they bother to be the small mice that push up against the elephant in his own home, is not beyond my understanding. Fear, fear is a widespread tactic. Fear causes humans to react in offensive or defensive ways. I will excuse the systemsuckers for now. Their voices provide the necessary contrast prerequisital to making ostensible our own claims. Disagree with me. Please. Your disagreement rends my assertion all the more cultrate.

[-] 1 points by gojam22 (5) 2 years ago

Lets begin the change with worldwide brotherhood send hugs to our enemies in Iran why becasue there are no true enemies lets send love to are middleastern friends to show the insanity of worldwide hate which is no upon us what causes such hate it is not there any more common sense will prevail love the ones who build nukes and show they have no need to fear America the world can come together in unity as long as we cast out the demons of hate propagated by the worlds greedy fools. There are no enemies without the desire to dominate thats what must stop coexist and all fear dies. China and all countries retain aggressive tactics do to ongoing hate between borders this is caused by the people we protest today let us show the tactics of terrorism that the united states and other perpetuate will NOW CEASE and the people of China Russia Africa and Europe We are all brothers in the eyes of god it sHigh od D*amned time we act like it yes it is

[-] 1 points by gojam22 (5) 2 years ago

The world will here the message of the people. We no longer want children to die of hunger while the greedy fly around in gold plated heliocopters we no longer allow suffering where none is needed we support our brothers in Egypt,Libya,Syria, the world will show you the misery you say is required will no longer be tolerated the evil will now be cast out or change their cause

[-] 1 points by Firewolf31 (9) 2 years ago

Well if that's the case here in america the message apparently is that we will squat in empty buildings that we do not own nor have we gotten permission to stay and while doing so we are going to yell we want change while smoking dope and beating drums... Yeah very civilized... Not!

[-] 1 points by undernamenothing (14) from Napoli, Campania 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by gojam22 (5) 2 years ago

We are at a crossroads in the test for what America the world and people of the world stand for. The people who support the wealthy and powerful, do they speak kind words? I here threats and evil desires being spewed forth by the ones wh claim to have knowledge. I ask you people what do you have knowledge of, making money killing babies and threatening people on yahoo Good job, were all scared do you intend to back up that speech of course not becasue you know your wrong in your heart. How about OWS they do not hide in a cubicle while saying things that only the insane believe They cry for justice they don't whisper they are being heard. Are the powermongers also going to come out and protest the protesters of course not, they are scared Like any war the right army will win because it is known deep in their soul their message is simple and not at all flawed. They demand equal justice and they will recieve it be careful protestor to the protestor. The records of your speech may be stored for another time when common sense has returned, much like after WW2 Hitlers followers were no where to be found and many probably still live with head in sand speak your peace if evil and hate are your true beliefs and one day we will decide if we will forgive the insanity of your beliefs or maybe you can dig deper into your soul and see if god has any prescence at all or is it money the desire for more and more and the behest of your leaders who say make america strong. it is no good to be strong if you have no humanity the devil is strong too is that your values, god and country is not what you stand for god does not justify you and no country is justified in destroying other countries to make them stronger and now the world unites and no longer believes in your miserable hateful ways

[-] 1 points by gojam22 (5) 2 years ago

Do not listen to the ones whose brains are a clean slate they will whine when they know the truth is otherwise, why do they do this because they were told since childhood do what your told and they to their credit did that, but they became angry because they see the truth ,but are scared they have become bitches to the riches and it is not their fault, these types on yahoo are not aware when its time to quit with their false ideas and grasp the ideas of a true man to stand up in the face of criticism especially when the criticism is tainted with impressions of the current system which has effectively turned man against man and as i said before kills children do you smart mouths have children then listen to their pleas A child knows the earth is cruel and your make the earth more cruel with your words, why because of your fathers your bosses have all told you its not a perfect system but they now try to claim it is. The desire for money has to be tempered with logic and good treatment for all living things jesus christ knew this how come the ones who own everything think they are smarter than jesus abolish the fed and let us have our families back without the crimes that devour us all, the crimes of arrogance and hatred through money and power has to cease and it is now It is no longer about your sweat and toil let it be about brotherhood and love for all mankind.We shall not stand by while men of wealth have no soul and little practical intelligence the ability to make money is very closely related to being a talented devil who sidesteps fundamental right and wrong for personal gain.There must be a time when the truly eternally intelligent will prevail Jesus Christ did not understand the stock market but he did understand humanity and we must all agree that jesus was eternal and that gd was not wrong when he said mney is the root f all evil. Thae extreme desire for wealth drives men to insanity because in his heart he knws his own cruelty, but he defends it in his tower because he thinks his tower will not fall. To the 1% your tower is currently falling do you feel it yet or must we show you that millions of starving for justice are not wrong no not at all

[-] 1 points by gojam22 (5) 2 years ago

Clowns of the world you know who you are the richest most corruptable people your time is over its time fo r the masses to truly be equal, listen up people do not forget your message the financial system of this country and all countries has run amuck. The rich say they worked hard and deserve their money, do you really think that Mitt Romney, who is a great guy, ever worked as hard as Joe the plumber , no he did not he was gifted with rich people as parents and others may have been gifted with just good people that helped them to succeed, what do you ows want the same thing all successful people were given a chance to succeed you never got it. The samrtest psychologists on the planet know that people will not protest even if they fail if simply given a chance to succeed what most have not been given and their voices are not false, they are not pretending to be cast out they really have been does society even offer the same consideration to you as the founding fathers intended, if you believe that call the police on any rich man and see if they give the proper discretion ,no they never do they side with the stupid corrupt rich over the common man and they still want to reduce things to staements like I worked hard for my money and your lazy,BS Your current methods kill children and leave the poor to starve while you exists in ivory towers that noone can scale your wealth has built up over genrations that exclude everyone you choose not to help. The federal reserve dictates laws in this country they tell the police use discretion, but ignore the dirty poor even when you know they have been cheated and stolen from by the wealthy, lets even the playing field, lets go bac to when the system was being built thats when the policies that lie were created that was when things were still fair thats when we could just go hunt for our food this is no longer that day we cannot provide to family through honest work anymore and society has built fences around the great plains so we cannot hunt like the natives once did. We Cannot do honest work because the ones wh would hire us are not honest children suffer through supply and demand for tax dollars stolen by interest groups when common sense would say make sure are kids are educated, but the same time the wealthy are given those funds and the poor have not yet inherited the earth but if the rupert murdochs do not listen WE WILL TAKE IT

[-] 1 points by Firewolf31 (9) 2 years ago

Ok can you just give the message in a nutshell? I'm going crosseyed trying to read such a small font

[-] 1 points by lukefromDC (44) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

Video of the DC takeover of Franklin School:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2a2_1321841424

[-] 1 points by Pertello (80) 2 years ago

Why are they not inCentral Park? Is it not allowed?

[-] 1 points by econdemocracy (41) 2 years ago

"and initially reopened as a homeless shelter. Despite widespread public opposition, the city government later closed the shelter. Next -- in blatant disregard of social safety net programs that are necessary for the very survival of the people who are most directly impacted by economic injustice -- announced plans to turn the building either into luxury condos or a hotel for the 1% lobbyists on K St."

Did this happen entirely due to the local leaders being bad? Or were there other factors like, the Federal Government not giving states/cities enough money for supporting things like homeless shelters (so the federal government can more easily continue to spend the current level of almost a TRILLION per YEAR on military spending, counting the wars, the military part of the Energy Department and other hidden military spending)?

We need to keep our eyes on the wider causes, not to "let local officials off the hook" but to see the larger picture, because without that information we don't have as clear a picture of what we want to/need to change.

Many of the police actions reported, including many on camera, are outrageous.

Again we need to look for root causes. Many join the military as the only way they see to support themselves. Is that partly due for those joining the police force? What about those who joined and would like to act in a less brutal or non-brutal way but are not able to, not allowed, to change things due to the system into which they need to fit?

Meanwhile in other news, "Millionaires ask Congress to raise their taxes" (todya's cnn, in their money.cnn.com section) someone admits the rightwing excuses are just that, excuses:

"California venture capitalist Garrett Gruener, founder of Ask.com, told left-leaning House members on the Progressive Caucus said he doesn't buy the argument that hiking the tax rates for the wealthy and forcing them to pay more in taxes would stymie business growth. 'Not once have any of my personal investment decisions been a function of marginal tax rates," Gruener said. 'We just don't think about it.' "

And,

Massachusetts millionaire Farhad Ebrahimi, a 33-year-old philanthropist who inherited his money from his software entrepreneur father, said he also supports the so-called "Buffett rule" that would require millionaires to pay a higher percentage of their income in federal taxes than those who make less than a million a year.

" 'What we're all here today representing is to request the Bush tax cuts be allowed to expire -- that's simply the bare minimum,' said Ebrahimi, who has also participated in protests in the Occupy Boston movement."

:-)

http://economicdemocracy.org/analy.shtml

http://economicdemocracy.org/alternatives-to-wallst.html

[-] 1 points by Bighead1883 (285) 2 years ago

Occupying empty civic buildings is an inspirational idea as they are owned by the people.Its the state that has to act on its peoples behalf and not against them.The biggest weapon the OWS Movement has is it`s power of vote.We must remember the politicians and councillors that have oppressed and acted illegally and treat them accordingly in the voting booth first,then the civil courts later.The same goes for police that are breaking the law and carrying out violence on peaceful protesters.

[-] 1 points by jenga5 (6) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

"Hell no, we won’t go — unless we get goose down pillows. A key Occupy Wall Street leader and another protester who leads a double life as a businessman ditched fetid tents and church basements for rooms at a luxurious hotel that promises guests can “unleash [their] inner Gordon Gekko,” The Post has learned. The $700-per-night W Hotel Downtown last week hosted both Peter Dutro, one of a select few OWS members on the powerful finance committee, and Brad Spitzer, a California-based analyst who not only secretly took part in protests during a week-long business trip but offered shelter to protesters in his swanky platinum-card room." Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/wall_street_cra_pad_s31YWPjPTt0TYuxLGnu7IK#ixzz1eHEdWy6C

[-] 1 points by morons123 (131) 2 years ago

for sure. many state and govt buildings will be offered to OWS. then we will shut down wall street completely. next we will force Obama to resign. we are here to stay!!

[-] 1 points by Firewolf31 (9) 2 years ago

Well get a sense of direction and priority first...

[-] 1 points by nanalou (1) from Vancouver, WA 2 years ago

Bravo! You truly are an inspiration and a joy to behold!

[-] 1 points by JosephCouture (45) 2 years ago

There is that old saying, “United we stand, divided we fall.” The Occupy London group in Ontario fell hard and fast. It was clear that their own fear, internal squabbling and a public presentation that inspired only ridicule did them in.

They were the first to go in Canada and it doesn’t look like they will regroup any time soon. Read how it all went wrong here:

www.josephcouture.com “How To Blow A Revolution—The London Model”

[-] 1 points by graywolfaa (1) 2 years ago

Remember England when they set fire to the stinking system? We need to do the same! Fire em' up boy's! REVOLUTION is what we were founded on and we need yet another one! The 1% er's are coming! Torch em'!

[-] 1 points by julesfromthebk (14) 2 years ago

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/restore-franklin-school-homeless-shelter-instead-selling-it-build-luxury-condos-lobbyists/mzwg2F7R sign the petition, even though it most likely won't change anything from the White House side, we can push for our rights from all outlets.

[-] 1 points by kanken (1) 2 years ago

squatting is much different in the UK http://www.urban75.com/Action/squat.html

I have a good friend who lived in a BEAUTIFUL abandoned elementary school for a while and they had set up community classes on various subjects ranging from art to physics.

[-] 1 points by LorenzoGonza (1) 2 years ago

(a) Any power that can not be justified is IMMORAL.

(b) The reasons justifying the existence of Congress --the size of the assembly and the distance of its members-- do not exist anymore with current technology. With the Internet, cell phones, digital signatures, etc., it is possible to build a permanent system of referendums for the people to decide directly --without a congressman-- in all important matters.

(c) Therefore, the mere existence of the Congress and the representative democracy is IMMORAL.

There is a phrase that says: "POWER CORRUPTS, AND ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY." The second part of this phrase was used to replace monarchy with representative democracy; and the first part of this phrase will be used to replace representative democracy with direct democracy.

[-] 1 points by liveHI (3) 2 years ago

I think the one thing the 1% didn't count on was the---------------->[internet].

[-] 1 points by liveHI (3) 2 years ago

[Hawaii stands in Solidarity. We are the 99%.]

[-] 1 points by Katiedid (1) 2 years ago

There is a certain poetic justice in this occupation when you consider our property was stolen all over the world. Why should people be on the streets through no fault of their own, where they were conned by bankers and realestate agents and only the homeowners lose? Jobs lost, all of it because of the 1%. All old bets are off. We have had enough.

[-] 1 points by skillciaX (53) 2 years ago

This may be our country but we do business with the rest of the world and we all need to be on the same page.

[-] 1 points by gerrycisneros (1) 2 years ago

The 99% is growing stronger everyday. and now it's become a world wide movement? wow

[-] 1 points by frank225 (-3) 2 years ago

This is shameful. The government should build facilities for homeless or this will happen. A squatter society will appear.

[-] 1 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 2 years ago

So OWS are squatters now? Great. I'm sure that'll teach those one percenters what's what! Yeah, revolution! ..lmao

[-] 1 points by nikka (228) 2 years ago

It's Over. The police have cleared the building. OWS Fail.

[-] 1 points by WhatsUpCam (5) 2 years ago

define fail? Don't you think that the point of these protests is to piss the government off to prove that they are not in control and get media attention....

so in other words... OWS Pass!!!!

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 2 years ago

I guess there is still the concept of private property here in the old us of a

[-] -2 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Good. OWS have strayed so far off the path they are nothing but an annoyance to the 99% they claim to represent. OWS has become just a bunch of whining little entitlement brats. Perhaps they always were.

[-] 2 points by uptous (2) from Provincetown, MA 2 years ago

It's clearly important information - brought to the forefront and made public by these actions - these abandoned buildings are specifically chosen to represent, in various ways disparagement - particularly the building slated for the homeless and sitting empty or galvanized for the 1% - well, why not the 99%? - Surely those arrested knew that was a risk - but one they were willing to take - please - those of you who are unwilling to read an article by OWS (although, here you are) at Least take a look at the statistics - 1 in 9 living below poverty level - it could happen to you - one health issue - couldn't you lose your job or business? Then what? 4 applicants for every job opening straight across the board - I met a woman years ago who was in physical pain but waiting tables at 67 years of age to try to keep her house after their life savings had to pay for the medical costs she and her husband spent their life savings on after his heart attack - are you reeeally certain this couldn't happen to you?

[-] 1 points by Meesa (173) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Uptous, I agree 100% that we need substantive change across many realms -- that's why I'm interested in the OWS movement. What vision for a better America do you see? What, in specific detail, do you want in a post-OWS world? Should we still have a monetary system? Should there be salary caps or "same pay for all work?" Would a post-OWS nation even have a political system as we know it? What would you replace it with? I'm trying to gather "best practices for a better world." I'm curious to know what individual OWS supporters think. :)

[-] 0 points by 1dw (4) 2 years ago

i think this is a foolish position to take. will you come out and say you believe the current 'growth for health' model of the economy is sustainable on a planet with finite resources? will you say that income inequality of today's proportions is a 'natural' result of free competition and does not involve failed government policy in service of corporate interests? the entire system is in question and a reductionist reactivity to the questions being raised is blindness. you may not like the aesthetic you see represented by some in the movement, and you may disagree with the level of articulation or content of specific members complaints, but what exactly do you intend to represent by disparaging the entire movement? rather than convincing me of anything about OWS with this thoughtless bombast, you have succeed more in convincing me of your blind narcissistic self-promotion.

[-] 1 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I think you replied to the wrong post. All I wrote was that OWS have strayed so far off the path they have become little more than an annoyance to many of the 99% they claim to represent. "Blind narcissistic self-promotion"? LMAO seriously? LOL. Wow there's some real whackjobs flocking to this movement.

[-] 1 points by forOWS (161) 2 years ago

Didn't this happen in New York City during the protests on N17? Someone was dropping leaflets from a building as the protesters were making their way to Wall Street. I think the leaflets had something on them about the building they were dropped from being empty. Any follow-up on that? Or was it not true?

[-] 0 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

It was in Oakland.

[-] 1 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

How sad that the Metropolitan Police and federal Protective Services declared the area a "crime scene." Just goes to shows how powerfull the lobbyists can be if you take away their dreams of having a luxury condos or a hotel for staying the night in on our dime.

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 2 years ago

Breaking and entering is a crime.

Trespass is a crime.

Hence, crime scene.

[-] 1 points by lucifernonce (4) 2 years ago

squat everywhere! Soon they will realize that no matter what they do to you there will always be more that will take the place of the fallen.

[-] 1 points by Firewolf31 (9) 2 years ago

Sure.... sssssuuuuuuurrrrrrrreeeee.... Go ahead and keep breaking the law and getting arrested for squatting... That'll give y'all a very good rep...

[-] 1 points by gregg (11) 2 years ago

Awesome video. please help pass it around. Thank you! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRtc-k6dhgs&feature=colike

[-] 1 points by mserfas (652) from Ashland, PA 2 years ago

The Franklin occupation indeed sounds like a positive precedent. But I hope that Occupy DC will move quickly to restore the building into a fully functional homeless shelter and to line up funding and endorsements from respectable charities to support continuing it in that role in the long term. It's not hard to predict that they'll be presented to the media as spoiled kids using their sleeping bags to stymie progress, and public opinion could be turned against them quickly.

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 2 years ago

Vacant. Not abandoned. There is an important difference.

[-] 1 points by JosephCouture (45) 2 years ago

There is no doubt these are dark times. But average Joe 99 percent is stubborn, determined and creative. Read about how a handful ordinary folk found a clever way around the barriers put up by the 1 percent here:

www.josephcouture.com “Obstruction To Paradise”

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[-] 0 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

It seems only fair. The real estate market in and of itself needs to be busted up, as it artificially inflates the value of real estate. This phenomenon can be seen all over, where developers and investors are able to hold out to sell their properties for years, meanwhile pretending that they are worth X amount of dollars. Here is Austin the newest development projects have priced out the majority of people who once could live in the downtown area, as well as the eclectic buildings and dives that used to house venues in the charming and idiosyncratic way that the "Keep Austin Weird" campaign is failing to. This is about having at least a modicum of authenticity about the economy .

[-] 0 points by iarwain01 (1) 2 years ago

Everything your doing is making you more honorable, which will broaden and deepen the movement. Keep it up. People will join you, because they respect you. That's the only reason the movement keeps growing.

[-] 0 points by summerlakes (0) 2 years ago

That is what I call a real movement for the 99%. No one should ever be homeless or hungry. We occupy everywhere we are the true owners of the world and everything in the world for god gave us this world for the people to occupy it. If you need legal help defending eviction please send me a post on my fb page legal defenders law group. We are a team of paralegals and lawyers who has extensive skills in defending against the 1% wrongful taking of properties. or email me at support@securitizationresearch.com. Were in to help the world occupy every vacant, abandoned, foreclosed building and homes.

[-] 1 points by SelfReliant (94) 2 years ago

Sounds like you espouse a form of anarchy. Does not sound like a good idea. I think you may find that most people believe that their property belongs to them and not owned by you. Perhaps Inam wrong though.

[-] 0 points by julesfromthebk (14) 2 years ago

Yes! This is a move in the right direction, occupy them again and again until we find a way to thwart those nasty coppers...the people's buildings, not the perp's

[-] 0 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

You guys are amazing, and what more stark dramatization of the huge hypocrisy by the 1% than to throw Occupiers out of abandoned buildings. I've been advocating legal/peaceful, and I could never risk getting arrested, but an action like this feels right! There are empty storefronts all along a main street in the West Village of New York--restaurants that had to close because they couldn't pay the rent; a deli that's had the metal gate pulled down for over 10 years, completely empty; small shops out of business. A complete waste of usable space, when millions of people have nowhere to live! Thanks for your great courage!

I also would like to comment, here and in another section, that OWS is definitely having a huge effect in the country. I just read that the threatened shutdown of government and dismantling of social programs that's scheduled for this week if the Republicans don't vote to increase the deficit has somehow been left in limbo. It seems some lesser compromise, which no one can agree on--was offered up.

I'm sure it's because now Congress realizes that there's going to be a huge outcry if they try to inflict more "austerity" measures on the working class--that's because of OWS, no doubt about it.

Even Sarah PALIN is talking OWS language! I just read an article she signed (but obviously didn't write) ending with approximately these words: the 1% was Occupying Wall Street long before anyone set up a tent in Zuccotti Park. She's saying the 1% are ripping off the country. That's amazing!

[-] 2 points by SelfReliant (94) 2 years ago

Economically unsound thinking.

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

What did you mean? About the deficit warfare, or was that a joke?

[-] 1 points by SelfReliant (94) 2 years ago

Espousing increasing the deficit to fund social programs is unsound (think Greece).

[-] 0 points by KishinD (9) 2 years ago

Hey guess what.

The cities and states will run out of money long before we run out of ways to protest. Every arrestee should demand a trial by jury. We're going to make them waste SOOOO much money they'll wish they'd just left us alone. Universal health care, expensive? Naw. Universal protest, now THAT's expensive.

Once we get them to leave us in peace (or join us in peace) we can continue working on the real problems humanity faces.

[-] 3 points by Meesa (173) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Kishin, what are some specific visions you have? I'm asking various folks on these boards for suggestions for "best practices for a better world." Do you want salary caps? Do you want campaign reform? How do you envision cities will function in a post-OWS world? :)

[-] 1 points by KishinD (9) 2 years ago

I'm glad you asked. I'll keep it short. First, we incorporate elements of participism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participism) in the organization of businesses and civil government. I'm not a military man, so I can't speak to the dictatorial style of organization they have, but that style doesn't work so well when trying to maintain freedom, equality, and justice domestically. Secondly, the release of suppressed clean "free energy" technology - Tesla may or may not have achieved this, but he was close. Other "free energy" inventors and researchers have since had their labs raided and research stolen by the federal government. The introduction of abundant decentralized electrical energy will revolutionize the planet while collapsing the dirty energy industry - this will impact the entire western economy, damaging it to the point where a reinvention of economics becomes necessary. While politicians re-hash their "inside-the-box" strategies, #Occupiers will be informing people that there is no box, and collectively working on new ways of providing the necessities of life - food, water, transportation, shelter, heating. Actually, scratch water from that list. Water management and distribution is a great example of a legitimate function of a people's government.

Of course, the most important thing is that #Occupiers are able to show people the illusory mental prison they have accepted for themselves, the prison of "this is the way things work and it's unchangeable". As the old institutions fail, this will become easier and easier.

Salary caps (such as 40x of the lowest paid worker) and campaign finance reforms retain the problem of viewing top-down organization as legitimate and beneficial to humanity as a whole. A true revolution doesn't require the consent of current leaders, only the consent of free persons. The self-determination of individuals and communities is paramount. We are not slaves, so why should our ability to live be dependent on us acting as though we are?

[-] 0 points by Ghassan (6) 2 years ago

the true question to be asked Meesa! We are to create the new era.

[-] 1 points by Firewolf31 (9) 2 years ago

If this is an example of your "new era" then I oppose it and will fight it even to my last breath.

[-] 2 points by Ghassan (6) 2 years ago

I agree with you KishinD, though I'm an outsider yet I'm living on the same planet earth ^_^ and I feel really glad for seeing people demanding their rights and fighting for their freedom, rather than believing that these corrupt systems are going to take us anywhere, rather than trusting them or expecting any fractions from them, when they only seek power and profit. It is ridiculous isn't it?!

We (humans) have become so separated that we're no longer feeling the bless of connectedness between us, we are fundamentally manipulated and the time has come for us to bring about the change we've always wanted! I mean one look to the world with all the brutality, poverty, wars, and hunger, and we'll realize how much it is needed to stand against these greedy people, who do not care about us or about our families. we're homeless while they are living kings' lives, we're poor and they're extremely wealthy. Why on earth should we possibly wait? One more thing KishinD, I loved "or join us in peace" very much.

We cannot live in peace without to feed everybody and house everybody on this planet, and we have the resources (as we all know) to get that done!

[-] 1 points by Firewolf31 (9) 2 years ago

Yeah and make it more costly to those of us that pay taxes... Times are tough enough without you pulling this crap....

[-] 1 points by KishinD (9) 2 years ago

You're wrong. Times aren't tough, production is higher than it's ever been, and there's only two simple reasons for human suffering. One, some humans use violence against other humans. Two, people are operating under the delusion that "the rules" are fixed and immovable. The way we interact we each other is as fluid as our imaginations. We needn't allow the exploitation of people and increasingly concentrated control over available resources.

Or to put it another way... how many foreclosed houses can you drive to within an hour? People could be using those houses. Why aren't they? How many empty storefronts will you see between your home and the second closest Wal-Mart? Why are they empty? Are people not able or willing to do productive labor in those spaces? You know as well as I do that's simply not the case. Americans want to work - they want to be productive and they want to help people trade with other people. They want their families to live in houses and not in their cars.

And who is responsible for preventing this? A handful of people that make money out of thin paperwork. With this paperwork-money they have laid claim to more and more land and buildings, and they are choosing to keep these spaces unused. When people decide to use these spaces anyways, they call in the Community Goon Squad (cops) to use violence against them. And this seems right to you?

[-] 1 points by caitlin54 (9) 2 years ago

Where do you think they'll get this money? From OTHER social programs that you and your children benefit from. Good idea!

[-] 1 points by KishinD (9) 2 years ago

Money is a fiction humans created for themselves to better organize and cooperate. They'll get the money by adding to the equally fictional debts they're holding. And when those pretend numbers get too large, they'll wrack their brains for ways to use pieces of the old game to ensure that somehow we can keep playing the same game. Money is in no way a finite resource, and therefore does not reflect the finite resources of the planet. Even renewable planetary resources only grow back at certain measurable rates. And anyways, it's fiat money. It has value because the paperwork of the state says it has value, and the people consent to the fiction. And the financial sector makes its gains by passing works of fiction around. Since the status quo only exists from the imagination of the 99%, we only need to free ourselves from this adult-sized game of make-believe and look at the reality of resources, capability, and needs.

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[-] 0 points by jAy2011 (2) 2 years ago

Two months in and look how far Occupy has gone. Two months with daily police beatings and arrests. We can't be stopped!

[-] -1 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Yeah look how far OWS has gone.. straight downhill. Any respect or solidarity they may have garnered from the REAL 99% went out the door with the OWS violence and tantrums, baiting of police and then crying about getting exactly what they asked for. Just a bunch of entitlement whiners. I believed in the message at first, but now I am ashamed I ever identified with OWS. You're nothing but a bunch of selfish brats.

[-] 1 points by jAy2011 (2) 2 years ago

Ok, so if you're no longer with us, then what are you doing on our website insulting us for no reason? So, you do not agree with our tactics I assume? What did you think, we were going to stay sitting in the park for the rest of our lives while Wall Street powered on steamrolling people all over the world? This is the development of a cause. If you are not part of us, please move on. Thank you in advance.

[-] 2 points by Meesa (173) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Ay2011, I am on these boards because I am on the fence about OWS. I 100% believe in overhauling our systems -- and love the new sub-movement, Occupy Big Food. But I can't get behind the Communist imagery, the loud noise backing only vague mantras like "the rich suck" (a sign I saw at an OWS protest) or "the world is watching." I'm serving as a "watchdog" to make sure the movement is not a "Trojan Horse" as the OWS blog itself asserts. There is such energy and attention now -- it is time to come up with specific action plans. Or at least start tossing things out there. What are some of your visions for a better society? How would you like to see our economic system change? Do you want to literally remove CEOs from their companies and literally storm buildings? Or what? :)

[-] 0 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Keep up with the plot moron - OWS pissed me off, I'm returning the favor. Don't tell me to move on just because you don't like the message - isn't that what you've been telling everyone else, you hypocrite.

[-] 0 points by jAy2011 (2) 2 years ago

OK Jimmy, if this fulfills you that's fine. Each to his own. I hope you find something that satisfies you in life. Keep an open mind man!

[-] 1 points by Meesa (173) from New York, NY 2 years ago

My mind is very open -- but any time any of us (people who are potential ALLIES to your cause) have any questions, we're branded as "concern trolls" or "division trolls."' So, basically, this is a closed club. I don't think it is supposed to be, and that's why I'M here. And that's why I'm now asking individuals on these boards for THEIR visions and suggestions for a better world.

[-] 0 points by ohgazzoo (4) 2 years ago

You realize if someone taunts, you can make a complaint of harassment, but if you punch them, then you are arrested and charges with assaulted. the police are supposed to be able to handle this type of stuff in a professional manner. That is their job. If they cant do that job they need to be let go.

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[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

A historical precedent that might prove a bonus for Occupy Wall Street Nicolaus Mills guardian.co.uk, Saturday 19 November 2011 12.00 EST Article history

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/nov/19/historical-precedent-bonus-occupy

In 1932, a police and army attack on the Bonus Army of impoverished first world war veterans helped seal the New Deal This Tuesday's pre-dawn destruction of the Zuccotti Park encampment of Occupy Wall Street by New York City police in riot gear has been seen by some as a serious defeat for the movement. A day after 142 Occupy Wall Street protestors were arrested and Zuccotti Park was cleared, the New York Daily News, which has been hostile to Occupy Wall Street since it began, reported, "Camp Zuccotti appears to be gone for good now."

But if history is any guide, the raid on Occupy Wall Street and the destruction of the tents and sleeping bags the protesters left behind is not likely to have the effect the movement's foes want. The Great Depression offers a striking parallel to this week's attack on Occupy Wall Street.

In 1932, a police and Army raid on the Bonus Army of first world war veterans, who had come to Washington, DC to ask for immediate payment of their Adjusted Service Certificates (whic everyone called their bonus), resulted in an Occupy Wall Street-like rout. But in the end, the vets were the ones who prevailed and gained public sympathy.

The 1932 raid reached its peak of violence on 29 July when Washington's commissioners and President Herbert Hoover gave the Army the authority to evict the marchers from empty government buildings near the Capitol and from their makeshift camps along the Anacostia River. The Army chief of staff, General Douglas MacArthur, aided by Major Dwight Eisenhower and 600 troops, backed up by tanks and cavalry, confronted the vets, tear-gassing them and setting fire to the shacks they had been living in.

In August, the New York Times observed, "Press opinion, accurately reflecting public opinion, has been almost unanimous in holding up the hands of Mr Hoover." But support for Hoover did not last. Eight state legislatures passed resolutions condemning the use of the Army to put down the Bonus Marchers, and in the 1932 presidential election Hoover's callousness toward the vets became one more sign of his indifference to the pain the Great Depression was causing.

Franklin Roosevelt, who in 1932 would defeat Hoover in a landside election in which he won 42 of 48 states, was horrified by the Army's treatment of the Bonus Marchers. "You saw how he strutted down Pennsylvania Avenue … Did you ever see anyone more self-satisfied?" Roosevelt remarked of General MacArthur. "MacArthur," FDR also noted, "has just prevented Hoover's reelection."

One year later, when the Bonus Marchers came back to Washington, Roosevelt made sure they were treated with dignity. He had tents, latrines, showers and mess halls prepared for them at an old Army post in Fort Hunt, Virginia. He made sure the vets who needed it got medical and dental treatment, and he signed a special order allowing the vets (most of them in their forties) to enroll in the newly established Civilian Conservation Corps; 2,600 of them did.

Eleanor Roosevelt outdid her husband when it came to the Bonus Army. Unaccompanied by the secret service, she visited the vets with only longtime FDR aide Louis Howe accompanying her. She mixed easily with the men, and her gesture was enough to prompt one vet to remark, "Hoover sent the Army. Roosevelt sent his wife." By 1936, with the New Deal firmly established, Congress finally gave the vets the bonus and the victory they had been asking for.

President Obama shows no signs of treating Occupy Wall Street the way FDR treated the Bonus Marchers. Nobody expects Michelle Obama to pay a surprise visit to an Occupy Wall Street site any time soon. But as Occupy Wall Street regroups, the movement need not fear that the surprise attack on it – personally authorised by New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg – has diminished its influence. According to a 15 November Siena College poll, by a 57-40% margin, New Yorkers think Occupy Wall Street should be allowed in public parks around the clock.

As the weather gets colder and the protesters figure out ways to get through the night without the sleeping bags and tents now banned from Zuccotti Park, it is the extraordinary care they have taken to welcome the mentally ill and the homeless drawn to their site that poses their greatest problem. Without either the power to tax or to build homeless shelters, Occupy Wall Street has taken upon itself to be more compassionate than the city.

[-] 1 points by ForwardWeGo (99) 2 years ago

The saddest effect of all of that is happening is that once again history repeats itself. Without total chaos and eliminating our constitutional foundations including the ability to contribute to a better planet through innovation, creative thinking and yes, honesty in banking & business, I hope that 2012 rings in a new era where we can move past the greed and anger to an enlightened future.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

History teaches us that the times that good people stand together makes them stronger than the few evil ones. That's the time when any amount of money/power the greedy have will no longer help them out.

[-] -2 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I supposed you expect people to read that wall of text? LOL fuck off.

[-] 0 points by forOWS (161) 2 years ago

Well yeah. People who don't suffer from attention-span disorders like you. And of course by people who can actually read.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

Here how a president treats he fellow Americans: It's part of the story. Roosevelt made sure they were treated with dignity. He had tents, latrines, showers and mess halls prepared for them at an old Army post in Fort Hunt, Virginia.

[-] 0 points by tmmzc85 (2) from New Brunswick, NJ 2 years ago

Yeah good forbid you read, right? No wonder your comments are so stupid; ignorant people have no choice.

[-] -1 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

"just beat it"

[-] 0 points by angelofmercy (225) 2 years ago

What's next ? You people going to occupy the insides of law biding citizens homes as well ?

[-] 1 points by crapy (8) 2 years ago

Ha! another name paid troll!

Jimmy44, nikka, me2, anngriffin19, now angelofmercy?

Woa! Now you have 5 personas! I know. With the "Capcha" it is a pain to make fake personas. Your personas software does not work hum?

Have to do it by hand I guess.

Don't bother! I told you this is not working!

[-] 2 points by angelofmercy (225) 2 years ago

Grow up. I first came here to see what this movement was about . The longer I have stayed the more disgusted I have gotten with it.

[-] 0 points by OccupyMissouri (8) 2 years ago

I'd let them occupy my yard if I lived in NYC

[-] 0 points by nikka (228) 2 years ago

You stay classy, OWS. The Whole World Is Shaking Their Heads.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Well you could buy them some Armani duds.

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[-] -1 points by anngriffin19 (0) 2 years ago

If the Occupy Wall Street want to keep creditability then they need to be a non violent movement. I believe that Occupy Wall Street needs to define what they want government to fix. In the 1960's it was to end the draft and end the war. The police are not at fault for doing their job again change the law.

If you are unhappy with the banks and government then you need to let them know at the ballot box. But before you say it is the 1% the people the Groups need to acknowledge that as long as both parties take money from the banks nothing will really change.

The President could force the banks to redo loans and stop taking the homes of the working class but has he done that no he has not. In fact he says the banks are bad and need to be punished but then half of his bundler providing money to his reelection are banks.

Why is it Martha Stewart went to jail for insider trading and it is not illegal for members of the house and senate to trade on inside information. Why is Congress exempt for the same rules they make for the average citizen. Many of them come in middle class and leave rich.

What is so hard for Occupy Wall Street to tell the President to call the banks into his office and inform them their licenses are granted by the Government and if they do not redo the loans as promised he will have the government pull every single license.

Occupy Wall Street is losing its focus and no breaking the law is not the answer demands made win the day as Ghandi.

[-] 1 points by crapy (8) 2 years ago

Oh! you started another name troll!

Now it is 4: Jimmy44, nikka, me2, anngriffin19.

I wonder why BOA are wasting our money with you instead of keeping it for their executives bonus.

You are so obvious!

[-] 1 points by Firewolf31 (9) 2 years ago

Just a tad bit paranoid are we? Either way my 8 year old can carry out a better argument... Provide the proof that these people are trolls... Provide concrete evidence.. Otherwise everything you have accused that person of doing is merely hearsay

[-] 1 points by tmmzc85 (2) from New Brunswick, NJ 2 years ago

When Mahatma GANDHI lead the salt marshes he illegally harvested salt, defying the British who tried to regulate the resources of their colonized. This is PUBLICLY owned building, not privately. This is an act of civil disobedience in opposition to the privatizing of public space this is literally EVERYTHING Occupy is about. You're a tool.
In my town two years ago they closed a public school to open the land for development, promising to open another while "temporarily" sent the students to school an what was a local abandoned warehouse. They still haven't broken ground on the new facility, but this year's first years are gonna know "their warehouse" as actually having windows. Needless to say this school doesn't have too many white kids.

[-] 1 points by ohgazzoo (4) 2 years ago

you talk about the 60"s that lasted many years. but then you contradict yourself and say let them know at a ballot box. i agree with a lot that you say otherwise. I just know no one was listening before. they are now.

[-] -2 points by Crimzon (91) from Arizona City, AZ 2 years ago

Keep fighting for our rights!!! We believe in you , we have faith in you, we pray for you!!!!

I have never believed in my country, never believed in america, never once thought the world could change!!! But now I can say this I BELIEVE

[-] 2 points by SelfReliant (94) 2 years ago

Perhaps try Cuba, or Venezuela. Please keep in touch with a blog to advise how that is going.

[-] 1 points by Revolthreat (6) 2 years ago

Disliking something is the first step to realizing that one wanst to change or improve it. America can use some improvement. Do not jump to the Anti-communist-propaganda seat yet. Using totalitarian examples is also a very bad idea. It would be much better to use the less extreme Britain to seem less reactionary and predictable. Contrast is used for shock. Shock is a tactic much like a gimmick in advertisement, not the introduction to a valid altercation.