Phillip Glass Joins OWS in Protest at Lincoln Center
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 1, 2011, 1:09 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
<img style="margin-right:0.7em" src=//i.imgur.com/MbTcH.png" alt="Walmart" align="left" /> Phillip Glass will join OWS for an action at the Lincoln Center tonight, outside the final performance of his opera Satyagraha, on the life of Gandhi and the history of non-violent civil disobedience.
Lincoln Center is sponsored by the Koch Brothers and Bloomberg. At the same time that they celebrate this story of a historic social movement, they are working to shut down the contemporary Occupy movement.
In protest, Phillip Glass will lead a mic check / people's mic outside, reciting the libretto (chorus of Gandhi quotes).
When: Thursday December 1, 2011 at 10:30PM.
What: A General Assembly at 10:30 PM at Lincoln Center. Join us in an open conversation about the effects of increased privatization and corporatization of all aspects of society, and the use of nonviolent civil disobedience around the world to reclaim the commons. Composer Philip Glass will join the general assembly and mic-check a statement.
It is no doubt timely that Philip Glass' opera 'Satyagraha'--which depicts Gandhi's early struggle against colonial oppression in India --should be revived by the Metropolitan Opera in 2011, a year which has seen popular revolutions in North Africa, mass uprisings in Europe, and the emergence of Occupy Wall Street protests in the United States.
Yet we see a glaring contradiction in ‘Satyagraha’ being performed at the Lincoln Center where in recent weeks protestors from Occupy Wall Street have been arrested and forcibly removed for exercising their First Amendment rights to peaceful public assembly.
It’s also a striking irony that Bloomberg L.P is one of the Lincoln Center’s leading corporate sponsors. Mayor Michael Bloomberg has stifled free speech, free press, and freedom of assembly in an aggressive campaign against Occupy Wall Street protestors in New York City that has influenced a crackdown on the protests nationally. The juxtaposition is stark: while Bloomberg funds the representation of Gandhi's pioneering tactics of nonviolent civil disobedience in the Metropolitan Opera House, he simultaneously orders a paramilitary-style raid of the peaceful public occupation of Liberty Park, blacking out the media, while protestors are beaten, tear-gassed, and violently arrested.
Satyagraha is a Sanskrit word meaning "truth-force," and we at Occupy Wall Street, by exercising tactics of nonviolent direct action inspired by those championed by Gandhi, have insisted that the truth be told: Our commons have been stolen from us to profit the wealthiest 1%. We have lost homes, jobs, affordable education, natural resources, and access to public space. Our culture has been co-opted by a corporate elite. Many suffer so a few may thrive.
Previously, Occupy Museums and other OWS groups came to Lincoln Center to protest the "generous philanthropy" of David H. Koch, the funder of the Tea Party and of anti-global warming research, who uses philanthropic contributions to the former New York State Theater to whitewash his misanthropic reputation and write off his taxes. We will return again to Lincoln Center, where 'Satyagraha' has inspired us to once again challenge the ruthless nexus of power and wealth and reclaim our public space and common dignity.
If permission is not granted to protest on Lincoln Center plaza by Thursday evening, some members of Occupy Wall Street will enact a hunger strike. They will not end this strike until their demands are met, starting with the demand that Lincoln Center and the City of New York guarantee the freedoms of speech and assembly on the city-owned plazas and walkways of Lincoln Center. Occupy Museums stand in solidarity with these hunger strikers and offer support for this courageous form of protest.
The symbolic opening of this space for protest stands for the spaces all over the city and country that we vow to liberate from the control of the 1% for the full use of the public.
Ghandi was not a passive, docile lamb. He practiced non-violent resistance, mainly because he did not want to be responsible for mass slaughter. But resist he did!
He resisted and brought down the biggest empire of the time...
That short, toothless, bespectacled man, dressed only in a loincloth, brought the British Empire to its knees...
THE FORCE WAS WITH HIM, just as it is with the brave men and women of Egypt and of the 'Occupy' Movement.
yes the Egyptians, were / are amazing, and now they are helping the us people throw off there oppressive government-
training web page http://tinyurl.com/7rvpv43
DO NOT OPEN that supposed "training web page" http://tinyurl.com/7rvpv43
and everybody that stand up for their rights....here in usa we better use them (our rights) or loose them...actually most of our rights have been badly misused by gov & big business...egyptians still brave, no one ever imagined that it was possible to overcome such a repressed by force, country and hear the voice of the people.
how right you are- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi , was probably the strongest willed human , of all time. when that little man walked, the British military, shook in their boots. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[Gandhi multiple media]
The Complete Work of Mahatma Gandhi-CD interactive
http://www.multiupload.com/6UAP6W8X0A
File type: ISO image
Installation Note: You can burn the Image on cd or mount it in a virtual drive software like Daemon Tool
Or expand it with 7-zip or winrar.
An Interactive multimedia CD on Mahatma Gandhi. More than 50,000 pages of Gandhi's writings. 550 original photographs, 30 minutes of vintage film footage, and extensive audio recordings of Gandhi's voice. The most comprehensive CD on Mahatma Gandhi's life and teachings, produced by the government of India.
Introducing Gandhi: A short narration on Gandhi's life and his contribution to India's freedom struggle, illustrated with photographs, film footage and his voice. It also carries tributes to Gandhi by eminent persons.
Landmark Events: Over 40 important events from Gandhi's life presented chronologically, with his voice, film footage, some rare photographs and selected writings corresponding to each event. In addition, this section has a virtual walkthrough-of Sabarmati Ashram.
Gandhian Concepts: An insight into thoughts and beliefs (e.g. Ahimsa, Aparigraha, Asahayog) practiced by Gandhi. Electronic Books:
The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi (C.W.M.G) in chronological order, running into over 50,000 pages. It has a comprehensive index which facilitates interactive search.
GANDHI ON NON-VIOLENCE SELECTED TEXTS FROM MOHANDAS K. GANDHI'S
Non-Violence in Peace and War
mp3 3.5 hours english
http://www.multiupload.com/AZ8V7UNTTS
arabic
http://www.multiupload.com/8CY9S5IC8B
chineese
http://www.multiupload.com/9BTXR6YOX6
Gandhi the movie You can use vlc media player—also free-
http://www.vlcmediaplayer.net/
part 1 1982 movie 1.5 hours
http://www.multiupload.com/TUBT3LWXJX
part 2 1982 movie 1 hour
http://www.multiupload.com/2CSND4ICUX
Comment by: the movie man.
As soon as I finished watching Gandhi, I thought to myself "This movie had to have won Best Picture." I think it's one of the best epics of all time. It masterfully tells one of the most important stories of the 20th century, that of India's struggle to free itself, spearheaded by one of the most extraordinary men of all time, Mahatma Gandhi.
Gandhi's answer
Neither peace nor war -- but nonviolent struggle.
by :Gene Sharp
adobe English pdf file .1 mb
http://www.multiupload.com/O204ZZDAQYmp3 audio English
mp3 female voice 36 minutes
http://www.multiupload.com/DH3QLB8CFW
Gandhi wrote at the beginning of the 1930-1931 civil disobedience campaign. On March 2, 1930, Gandhi wrote a letter-ultimatum to the Viceroy, Lord Irwin, rejecting the idea that the issues between India and Britain could be resolved by a conference. He wrote: “It is not a matter of carrying conviction by argument. The matter resolves itself into one of matching forces. Conviction or no conviction, Great Britain would defend her Indian commerce and interest by all the forces at her command. India must consequently evolve force enough to free
herself from that embrace of death.
OWS Satyagraha Act of Solidarity http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPH4zKS3YOw
Satyagraha OWS Statement at Lincoln Center http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm7DUJL6Jks
Satyagraha of Lincoln Center with Phillip Glass http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmV95zxFxRA
Absolutely!
Just like Jesus, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela and Aung San Suu Kyi, Gandhi believed in love and non-violence but was at the same time A FIERCE WARRIOR.
In fact, philosopher Slavoj Zizek once quipped that in his own way Gandhi was "more violent than Hitler"!
Koch, Bloomberg and the rest of the Zionist idiots in NY are trying to mainstream the Ghandi movement against British Imperialism.
Pretty soon you'll see them selling Ghandi jeans and T-shirts if not already selling them at the concert.
Gandhi had a very obvious goal - for the British to leave India. He also knew exactly against who he was resisting. OWS has no idea what it is doing, why and against who it is resisting. This is why Gandhi succeeded while OWS is unlikely to.
OWS has a lot more of an idea than you think. There are many people working around the clock to organize information and educate the general population about the financial crisis and the appropriation of Congress. This movement is only in its inception. Gandhi didn't bring down the regime in 2 1/2 months. While he announced a satyagraha in 1928 against a 22% increase in British-imposed taxes, it wasn't until March 1930 that he commenced with a more formal civil disobedience. When was independence achieved? Not until 1947. With advances in technology and communication OWS should be able to change a few things in less than 19 years. But seriously, this movement is just beginning.
Thank you for contributing to my ongoing education, Harry. People like you empower me and give me hope.
Thanks so much!
Thanks for your reply and info. I'm sick and tired of ignorant trolls talking out of their asses. They don't know much about much, yet they think they know what's going on with this movement and can predict what will happen.
India was occupied by a foreign nation. America is not. This is a very important difference. It was much easier for Ghandi to ally the Indian people against the British. It won't be so easy for Occupy to ally the American people against its own government, especially not with the idea of communism replacing it. Technology plays a part, but it's not the most important difference with Ghandi's movement. The major difference is the lack of a foreign invader. A civil war is different than a war against the invader. Very different.
This is why it's so important to Occupy that it demonizes the police. It must create this great evil enemy that Ghandi had with the British. That is what Occupy is doing now. Once it has created this enemy, then it will try to rally more people against it and move forward like Ghandi did. First the enemy must be made because America doesn't truly have one. The 1% is more abstract than real. Brutal policemen are real.
You make some interesting points. I will admit that my choice of argument was only one example and not a mutually exclusive one. However to return to Gandhi. He asserted that "we must have no enemies," only opponents whom we need to "wean from error by patience and sympathy."
This is why I would disagree with your statement about turning the police into demons. If we wish to live in a world where demons rein, then we should by all means continue to create them. However, if we do not wish to live in a world where demons are the leaders, we must work with patience to overcome this divide of "friend" and "enemy."
Personally, I don't think turning the police into demons is a good strategy. I'm saying this is the strategy Occupy has adopted and is working on at the moment. I'm not saying I agree with it.
To occupy, not to me!
Read my post here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/deconstructing-occupy-a-message-within-a-message/
At the end, I say we should welcome the police with open arms.
The foreign element here is the Federal Reserve which is not part of the government at all. And neither is Goldman Sachs, but the government is in bed with them. Both institutions ship huge amounts of money overseas and that makes them a foreign element. Duh.
It's strange to me that people 'assume' that because OWS is protesting Wall Street that they are in favor of Communism. This comes from what psychology would call the cognitive distortion of Absolute Thinking. It's black and white. Either you're with us or your evil. Evil always thinks good and ethics are evil because they spoil their agenda every time. Those cognitive distortions originate in the ego and the ego has no compassion are care for anyone but itself and that describes Wall Street perfectly if you look at their track record.
The only other reason people think OWS wants communism is because of relativity. OWS is not against capitalism or democracy. What they are against is the unethical practices within capitalism and democracy and they simply want it restored by eliminating the economic cause of all of the suffering that's happening in America and around the world. Egoists just 'assume' that OWS is against democracy and capitalism because they can only see people who want fairness and ethical practices that work for all people except for just the few in an absolutist way, meaning that the 1% believe that the OWS wants to bring down the entire idea of democracy and capitalism and that means the 1% and those who support this is completely clinically delusional due to their attachment to their need to continue with unethical agendas.
If you look at the list of what OWS is protesting you will see that everything that they're protesting is all that is unethical and unfair and has caused considerable amount of suffering needlessly due to the insanity of the wealthy and there's no end in sight to the amount of suffering that the majority of the American people are going to suffer if people don't start opposing the unethical actions of Wall Street, our government and the big banking industry.
I think the American people should gather together and take action and prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the people who run these institutions are insane and due to that fact they would be unfit to lead a country or an economy and eject them from their positions and that would be easy.
Thrasymaque, you're either highly uneducated, insane, or working for the 1% to defame the character reputation of the Occupy Wall Street Movement. Anyone who does the research on what the OWS could never come to your conclusions because your conclusions don't even exist.
Great explanation. Thanks!
Where in the world did you get the idea that I assumed OWS was communist because it is protesting against Wall Street? What you did was put words in my mouth, then write a long rant about something I never said, and ended in a beautiful fury of ad hominems. Beautiful!
You're right. Conclusions that you make up for me don't exist in real life, only in your dreams. The conclusions I make for myself do exist. They are my conclusions. They exist. They even appear in writing form in some of my posts.
Please provide a quote to back up what your accusing me of assuming. You seem to be picking words out of thing air and putting them in my mouth for some kind of strange pleasure. This is not how to conduct a good debate.
I "assume" OWS is anarcho-communist for many reasons. The one you assume I am assuming is not one of them.
Instead of indulging in furious long winded and baseless rants, why don't you try discussing the issues like an adult. Don't put words in other people's mouths. That's sad.
There IS an enemy -- an actual physical enemy. It is the 'entity'. This is not an abstract idea, but a physically active construct made up of the following:
In general, there are three types of participants in the structure of the entity:
This is the basic idea of the Theory of Entity -- and it IS the fundamental problem underlying nearly all of the 'symptoms' we are protesting against. We really need to get our heads around this fundamental issue in order to create new rules for ourselves and avoid these 'entities' in the future.
Through the lens of the Theory of Entity, you can see that the 'Police', as a functional organization, is an entity and that the bulk of the participants are simply cogs who don't realize the impact of their contribution to the entity as they go about trying to pay their rent and feed their children.
In other words, it's these systems -- these entities -- that are the real problem. And of course, the Upper Managers are doing their thing to keep the entities rolling.
This fits into what Mr. Gandhi was saying about enemies. There are so few, but they are in charge.
[Removed]
OWS has an idea of what we are doing. Get the money out of politics is first and foremost. that requires smaller government. Restore the Glass-Steagall Act to prevant bank fraud and manipulation. Bill Clinton did away with this protection. Stop Congress from passing legislation affecting Delaware based Corps. in which THEY are investors. There are many more but this is a start. Educate yourself on this> It will empower you.
While Ghandi's main goal was getting the British out, he did not suffer from telescopic vision. He spoke at least as much about the elimination of the Caste system, income inequality, sectarianism and so on as he did about the occupation. His goal was equality above all: British Imperialism was only one of the impediments to it. Income inequality and conservative beliefs were just as important.
There is also a myth promulgated by the other side: he was not in favor of non-violence. He, in fact, counted on violence and slaughter by the British to occur and shame them in world opinion. He only insisted on non-violence by Indians, and knew full well that protests he called for would lead to many of their deaths. He invited mass slaughter.
He was a brilliant tactician. And much of what he strove for was accomplished, especially British withdrawal. But any claim that he opposed violence is off the mark. British violence was his most powerful weapon and he used it mercilessly. Without it, he would not have succeeded.
In much the same way, and for the same reasons, the discipline of passive resistance used so effectively by the Occupy movement all around the country during evictions made sure that it would be the power elite's use of force that would be highlighted in the media and in the minds of the populace. It was the willingness of those on the front lines to have violence wielded against them that has led to an even greater galvanizing of popular support for them. They are genuine heroes.
Before the battle of Karbala, the world knew only the rule that “The Might is the Right”. However, the day of Assura introduced even more powerful rule to this world; “The Right is the Might” . Now, the blood of the innocent could win over the sword of a tyrant. Mahatma Gandhi (Indian political and spiritual leader) writes: “I learned from Hussein how to achieve victory while being oppressed.” According to the great poet Rabindranath Tagore, Hussain’s sacrifice indicates spiritual liberation. He writes: “In order to keep alive justice and truth, instead of an army or weapons, success can be achieved by sacrificing lives, exactly what Imam Hussain (A.S.) did” Such an everlasting victory can only be achieved by the one who totally believes and trust in the Almighty God.
http://meis.as.nyu.edu/object/PeterJChelkowski.html
http://www.al-islam.org/nutshell/personalities/4.htm
http://www.islamicwisdom.net/imam-hussain-views-of-non-muslim-scholars
"....success can be achieved by sacrificing lives....."
Hardly a non-violent stance.
"Such an everlasting victory can only be achieved by the one who totally believes and trust in the Almighty God."
Right is right, whether it is motivated by religious belief or not. Plenty of good and bad, destructive war waged or peace maintained, has been achieved by believers and non-believers alike. But history shows that more atrocities on a mass scale have been committed by true believers than any others. It is not a matter of where one derives ethical principles from, but only whether one is ethical.
I would keep personal religion out of these discussions: they have nothing to do with the Occupy movement. The Robber Barons are, after all, as religious or irreligious as anyone else.
I think the OWS has goal very similar to Gandhi's; for the 1% to leave the planet.
Nonsense. It took Gandhi time to create the resistance movement and to develop effective methods to practically and symbolically challenge colonial rule. If resistance in the U.S. is not able to identify a singular threat, it is because the issue is more profound and convoluted. OWS is not simply trying to expel a colonial power, but to hold a global economic system accountable to the people. This will take time. India is hardly immune from the global corruption and lack of Democratic representation of the people.
The occupy Movement is censoring certain comments!!! My comments have been removed because of the truthfulness of what I say.. but I'll keep saying it!! When the powers to be feel like they are losing control they will take decisive and brutal action,,even marshal law if need be! It's just a matter of time. The people have had enough of being lemmings on the treadmill of slavery to the man. The occupy movement was just a match that ignited a bigger fire. The fire of freedom that burns in people's hearts. It's no longer about the Occupy movement but about the light that,, that match revealed. The light of self worthiness, self empowerment, and in layman's terms we don't have to take this abuse anymore because there is power in numbers! Yeah! you-know the wake up call!
Occupy Wall Street has already changed perceptions and set the stage for further changes. It has already succeeded.
Amen. The calls for agendas and goals are deceitful ways for the 1% and their slavish supporters to co opt the conversation.
ows has already succeeded by having a democratic ga and operating independently of any corporate influence. This is a startling contrast that appeals to the 99%.
yes !! thanks, it has...now is the opportunity for people to get up, stand up for your rights. (bob marley) it's the only chance we got.
Amazing. Philip Glass is an incredible composer and musician. Check out "Mad Rush", which he wrote depicting the battle between the wrathful and peaceful Buddhist deities.
See you there!
We shall not give up, keep on fighting until something gets done. Wishing I could be there.
ya, there is something that can be done.... NOt to go forth
"We have it in our power to start the world over again" - The moral and political thought of Thomas Paine
Occupy Manifesto Suggestion...
"Independence is my happiness and view things as they are without regard to person or place. The world is my community and my religion is to do good." - Thomas Paine
Objectives:
a) Remove political influence of power and money from the government.
b) Adopt a policy of sideways economics as opposed to trickle up & trickle down economics.
c) Hold politicians accountable
d) Commit to vote.
e) Religion and the 1%
This is 5 point start, a good foundation that will create on-ramps directly to the heart f the problem and gives a united theme for how to create a specific message.
Thomas Paine was considered treasonous by the founding fathers because of his view on the moral good. As an african-american, I find it ironic that a man who in the very beginning was against slavery was run out of the country simply because he believed that 'All men are truly created equal' & 'Separation of church and state is necessary in order to have a government of the people by the people.'
At the end of the day, the Occupy Movement is about justice.
http://www.religionpaine.org/article_bisheff01.html
True Islam emanicipates! Before the battle of Karbala, the world knew only the rule that “The Might is the Right”. However, the day of Assura introduced even more powerful rule to this world; “The Right is the Might” . Now, the blood of the innocent could win over the sword of a tyrant. Mahatma Gandhi (Indian political and spiritual leader) writes: “I learned from Hussein how to achieve victory while being oppressed.” According to the great poet Rabindranath Tagore, Hussain’s sacrifice indicates spiritual liberation. He writes: “In order to keep alive justice and truth, instead of an army or weapons, success can be achieved by sacrificing lives, exactly what Imam Hussain (A.S.) did” Such an everlasting victory can only be achieved by the one who totally believes and trust in the Almighty God.
http://meis.as.nyu.edu/object/PeterJChelkowski.html http://www.al-islam.org/nutshell/personalities/4.htm http://www.islamicwisdom.net/imam-hussain-views-of-non-muslim-scholars
I love to join you comrades ASAP, but I have citizenship oath ceremony on Dec 13 and it's better I don't get arrested for second time before that date. I promise I join you after oath ceremony.
How about supporting “Occupy Voting Booths,” and the idea of a one day Nationwide General Strike on Election Day, November 12, 2012, with the proviso that the strikers all pledge to VOTE on election day. Vote instead of going to work. This would send a powerful political and economic message to our Political and Corporate establishment. The 1% may have more money, but the 99% has more VOTES. Wouldn’t it be nice to have Voters to vote for the candidates you select. John Rudden. NYC
how about vote 'write in' ows
http://pastebin.com/gm2UV08D This was purported to be written by members of the movement that call themselves anonymous, Long but interesting.
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Mayor Bloomberg calls the NYPD ‘my own army’
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/30/mayor-bloomberg-calls-the-nypd-my-own-army/
New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg said the New York Police Department was like his own personal military force during a speech at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, according to PolitickerNY.
“I have my own army in the NYPD, which is the seventh biggest army in the world,” he said. “I have my own State Department, much to Foggy Bottom’s annoyance. We have the United Nations in New York, and so we have an entree into the diplomatic world that Washington does not have.”
I was honored to participate in tonight's OWS GA in front of Lincoln Center along with several hundred fellow citizens and witnessed a cascade of events that will serve to bring increased clarity to our collective call to action through peaceful protest and civil disobedience. Among those events was a GA call to the crowds exiting Satyagraha to join our assembly and in a matter of moments several hundred of them out flanked NYPD to join us on the LC steps until then occupied and held hostage by NYPD. In stack came composer Phillip Glass and mic checked a short and powerful statement that will be posted on You Tube within the next hour. Stay tuned for the URL. Peace Love and Light
The city has banned Lincoln Center from having any sort of protest AT ALL on their plaza, there was a court ruling. Lincoln Center will get fined by the city if any protest takes place on their campus. I don't understand why one would want to put LC in more debt when they are trying to provide arts to the city. Sure, Lincoln Center receives a lot of funding from private donations but that's because Lincoln Center would not be able to exist without them! Why are we not protesting city budget cuts instead? As much as I support this movement, it seems petty to protest at Lincoln Center, where they are trying to make the art there more accessible to the public and not such an "upper crust" event. Sure, Lincoln Center isn't fully "public," there would be no way that it would exist the way it is today without private funding. And sure, that's unfortunate, but Lincoln Center is also made up of 11 different organizations that all have their own opinions, messages and goals. Have you seen their public Atrium? Have you heard about them attempting to provide the students and other folks discount tickets on the same day as the performance. They're trying. It's hard though when they are already in so much debt. Why aren't we fighting the city for public spaces such as foreclosed homes and fighting the ruling that we as a people cannot protest on Lincoln Center's plaza? Unfortunately, there's nothing that the folks at Lincoln Center can do about it without getting fined by the city, and they can't afford that right now.
Unfortunately Lincoln Center doesn't have many other options except to accept donations from Bloomberg, without them, the show about Ghandi's non-violent resistance would not be happening. Sure, it's hypocritical, but I'm just thankful that Lincoln Center is still open in an economy like the one we have today. I would hope that Bloomberg would put his money toward something beneficial, like the arts.
At the previous protest at Lincoln Center, no arrests or "forcible removals" happened. I was there- the statement above is providing false information.
I hope that the Occupy Museums group will take responsibility to fully do their research about what they claim to be protesting about. It's your responsibility to be educated about what you're protesting and standing up for. I think it's important to carry out Ghandi's non-violent resistance. This movement is only getting stronger, but I'm afraid it's battles like these that take away momentum from this movement.
Theater is often a means of communicating symbolically with and among the upper crust of modern society. It is difficult to say with certainty that Bloomberg is either communicating or being communicated with - but clearly communication is taking place.
And it is no stretch to presume his resistance to our assembly and message, his attempts to contain the pressure, have indeed helped spread that message much further than it otherwise would have.
Also interesting is the fact that the Occupy Movement - which I do support - is patterned closely after a movement of social unrest that occurred in Serbia
A chief source of funding and training: the International Republican Institute
It is perhaps difficult to conclude that the repelican party is somewhere behind Occupy - with the purpose of installing a new occupant in the Oval Office.
Certainly oil companies would benefit - while it is uncertain what Barack Obama will decide to do regarding the tar sands oil pipeline - no one can doubt what will happen with that pipeline should the office fall to repelican hands. Ground breaking will begin even before the paperwork on the request for injunction is dry.
If the repelicans are behind it - it sure backfired on them. They must be the most horrible stragetists in the world. The original message from Adbusters was supposed to be anti-corporatism and ending corruption in government. Clearly not something that would work in repelicans favor. Graeber took charge and came up with the "no-demands" idea. Be everything to everybody. Effective, to a degree, in a startup mode.
I really think that the repelican support of Otpor, is an unintended consequence. How could they know that the very group that they support to overthrow dictatorships on the other side of the ocean would come to US soil? I do not think they (the repelicans) envisioned such a thing.
"we're not a political, we are a social, movement"
"we're not voting"
combine these general ideas that are prevalent with a few high profile voices standing in articulate condemnation of the administration and before you know it the repelicans benefit.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not in favor of denial when it comes to looking at the relationship between the admin and Wall Street - it needs examination and condemnation.
At the same time, I think it is important to look at the entire field of candidates and ask - who will provide the best outcome for the country?
I also think the tar sands pipeline - while it is only one issue - may represent a kind of bench mark toward that end.
write in ows
LoL!
That is funny. If enough people do it it will garner some attention. As a monkey wrench in the gear box it is funny.
It's also cynical, and it says the whole system is so fucked there is no fixing it.
I don't want to believe that - I mean, it may well be true - and if it is we will no doubt know about it soon enough, perhaps even in my lifetime, and I'm an old guy.
Hey zendog, I'm an old phart too...It seems to me that ows is a real thing, we can occupy our sofas and electronically support the youngins. what else is there ?
well I don't know . . . I suppose the only limits are those of your own imagination.
true, and we probably do not imagine great enough...ows will be more successful than we imagine now...simply because the local govs all around the country & world cannot afford $$$ the high cost man hrs/equipment/court costs and then responding to all the civil rights violations...
that's not it - it goes way beyond that.
what you have cited is what makes the establishment pay attention - they have no choice - by impacting their budgets we are impacting their day to day lives at the municipal level of decision making
But that is simply a tactical issue - getting their attention is one thing. How and why we do that are matters for careful consideration as we plan various Occupations.
The nature of our success rests not in the tactics themselves, but in what is behind them.
Is our message true? Is there injustice in the world? Do corporations bear some measure of responsibility for that injustice? Does this injustice impact us here at home? Is it within our power to change these things, and is it not an obligation, to ourselves, our neighbors, the nation, and the world at large, to make such reparations as are possible?
These are the things that become the measure of our success.
ZenDog, thanks for that, very well stated...let's see how long it takes the local boards of supervisors & citizens around the country and world to demand that the local, state, fed police, stop their actions, besides not wanting to pay, they are NOT serving their citizens.
It is up to us to communicate to them where their own interest lies.
if they are not listening now, they will soon or a new 'they' will be in their places. the new 'they' ows
That's the idea
; D
but it would be nice if we can articulate clearly the problems that need changing.
For sure, I think ows is working on that. From my sofa, I have read on this site and seen livestream, looks and sounds good to me. The idea of fairness is universal, one does not need a tee shirt ( from your factory ) that says ' I am in the movement "
well, perhaps not, but it would find me embarked on a path to the lofty position of the one percent . . .
I think repelicans will re-assessing their support of Otpor now.
gosh I hope not . . . I was hoping to start a tee shirt factory . . . .
Well, there are still dictatorships around. So maybe they'll just cut-back. Any $ lost in repelican contributions will probably be more than offset by an increase in NED contributions. So I think your tee shirt factory idea is still a go.
cool . . .
Corporations Do Not Have Tongues!
You should go back and read what they predicted the glories the Iraq war would yield for us financially and for our position in the middle east. Way back before they kept lowering the bar so they could claim being even somewhat on target. They ARE the "most horrible strategists in the world", beyond the war debacle, just look at the candidates they are fielding this time-- the only sane ones in the lot are being completely ignored, next in line the completely batshit, and idiotic trifecta of WTF candidates EVER: The Harpy, The Pimp of Pizza, and The Texas Frathouse/Village Idiot, leaving the most viable ones as Mitt "the Robot" Romney and Newt "the Nasty" Gingrich?? Did some brilliant Dem strategist infiltrate the grand old party AND Fox News when I wasn't looking? Because the Obama campaign couldn't have come up with better "win" insurance for the Dem party if they had been allowed to hand pick the republican primary field themselves.
Even my last die hard red shirt buddies (the others having jumped ship to independantville or libertarianland ) are admitting the future for a republican win looks grim, barring the most egregious and obvious blackbox voting scams, which won't work, and we all agree the only hope for any of us is a viable independent or massive push for a write in, I'm voting for Stephen Colbert if no one else steps up :).
Repub movers and shakers being behind ows? I am dubious, their heads seem stuck up their asses at the moment (no insult to the rank and file, I feel much the same about my "team" in Washington, though I too have jumped ship), there seems no way they could have pulled it off.
As to the folks who claim they aren't voting, don't worry, many others who normally wouldn't will motivate and get their ass out and vote this time I suspect. Besides, the I don't vote crowd is nothing new and always sizable-- but despite them, I predict record turnouts.
Completely b@tsh$t. Completely funny!
I've always thought (just my opinion!) that the repub ptb brought "The pimp of pizza"(lol) into the race to prop up Romney. So that when the sex allegations came out - which they knew would - the base would flock to "the Robot". But instead, the opposite! The party of family values loves a cheater!!! Shocking. Yes, they are - the most horrible strategists on the face of the planet!
The repubs are really their own worst enemy. The Dem's don't need a double agent inside the repub party. Grover Norquist does that job for them. Maybe Grover IS the double agent! I know thats like a conspiracy theory, I have no proof whatsover, except that the whole repub party is colossally stupid.
A Colbert/Stewart ticket? I LIKE! On a more serious note (or maybe not so serious depending on your point of view) - what do you think of Buddy Roemer, as a 3rd party candidate?
allegations,...............lies.
as the famous nitwit dan rather said, it's the seriousness of the charges , not whether they're true .
It was not meant as an allegation. I used the word "thought", as in "opinion". I'll edit.
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I think OWS movement should focus on the corruption-free government management and policy making. We should make USA all government branches (levels) corruption-free. For example, Congressmen and senators are servants of special interest groups, particularly, the most Tax-funded defence industries. USA politicians are smart-corrupted to the extend way over others.
no consecutive shorter terms in office....
http://pastebin.com/gm2UV08D This was purported to be written by members of the movement that call themselves anonymous, Long but interesting.
Blocking the entrances to museums and cultural centers is a bad idea and probably won't garner much support.
Fact Check. No one's going to be blocking the entrance to and from the large area of Lincoln Center. That would be a fire hazard. Protesters are there to support Gandhi's idea. Even Phillip Glass would be part of the Mic Check -- did you read above?
I just re-read it. It was poorly written and didn't attract much support because of that.
Weather or Not something can be reached with this movement, its worth trying it, and im glad see that something big is going on here! Keep going, it would be easy to say, what if we just did something when there was time to..
Thrasymaque: voices and ideas do not exist in a void. They are culturally influenced. If you have studied any theory, you would see that all great thinkers have emulated or were influenced by on other thinkers. You ARE being much too harsh and prejudicial in your judgements, (which, by the way, are not of the caliber of a truly creative or rigorous thinker). Offer something substantial.
What comment are you referring to? It's impossible for me to discuss issues if you don't tell me what quote you are basing your statements on. For example, I have no idea where you got the idea that I said that great thinkers don't emulate the past. Every thinker bases his idea on the ideas of other great thinkers. The difference with Occupy is that these great thinkers digest their influences and provide something new. Please respond to my comments directly if you wish to have a proper discussion. Posting comments where I cannot find them is not honest and is not conducive to a proper debate.
This snark comment is useless. I never pertained to be a thinker of high genius and creative power. I don't know where you got those ideas. I simple express arguments. Arguments that you can choose to counter-argue properly by posting them to my comments, or that you can attempt to counter with fallacious ad hominem attacks like above.
This is not an ad hominem attack. Critique is a rigorous and thoughtful analysis. All you are doing is nay saying. It's a simplistic argument to say they are not doing anything new (and I would beg to differ, as there has not been anything quite like the OWS movement, including their use of the human mic). You do not offer anything substantial or productive in your "critique." The word "new" is a lot like the word "original." Much of the post-modern debate is a "critique of the pedestrian idea of originality (i.e., Roland Barthes "Death of the Author"). This movement has only been around a couple months, so I will repeat what I said above, You ARE being much too harsh and prejudicial in your judgements....offer something substantial or "new" if you can. If you cannot, than don't criticize others who are trying!
You haven't read my many posts on this forum where I critique the movement with details and suggestions. As for the human mic, it's a lame brainwashing technique.
Name calling is NOT critique. I really have no desire to read any more of your opinions (and waste more of my time). They're not very insightful. Thank you.
Then why address my comments in the first place?
[-] Thrasymaque -3 points 1 day ago
Gee Wiz. Occupy is always trying to gain power by associating itself with other thoughts and movements. Philip Glass now? (When will Occupy define a voice of its own. This constant borrowing is starting to be way lame.) Sure, it's very postmodern, but come on.
THAT was Your comment... Don't play stupid. Also The fact that this movement is broader than just one acute defined area of oppression doesn't make it weak it is actually stronger and reaches more people because of it's mass effect which is proven fact of the injustice!
The 1% manipulate our country and it is usually to a detriment of the 99%.
Your opposing views are okay at best but very fickle and short sighted. If you can give five good points on how the 1% have Improved society and back it with facts and data or Anything that proves that having a Billion Dollars while literally choking out all things underneath you because "Their name isn't on the building" then you can say you are doing your part as a counterpointing nay sayer. UNTIL THEN JUST OBSERVE YOU SIDE-LINER, and Be Quite.
This is not an attack merely a statement of contest. If you are not Brilliant and can't make even two of the five requested COUNTER-POINTS that I have requested. Then maybe you'll understand what this is all about.
Oppression Here is Oppression There and There and Everywhere when I can't work my job, Eat (Healthy), Sleep Safely, Enjoy any Free Time And Be Left the Hell Alone. That's when it's too much. If some small group of people have enough power to force me to Leave my place of comfort behind during a Holiday because they need to make an Extra buck the Day of Thanksgiving... or be fired and Jobless because I wanted to spend time with family.... There's and ISSUE with the moral and system that allows it! Tell Me I'm Wrong.... I'll be waiting.
I'm not playing stupid. I have hundreds of comments on this forum. It's easier if someone answers directly. There is also a user posing as me, so it could have been from him.
You want me to provide counter-points to support the 1%? Why would I do this. I do not support the 1%, and never said there were no problems in America. America is full of problems, and they need to be solved as fast as possible. America is in a critical situation.
Do you think me criticizing Occupy means I don't believe there are problems in America? Those are two very different things. It seems you are suggesting that I should accept anything Occupy wants to do just because there are problems in the government. That doesn't make sense to me.
I don't really understand your point. Are you saying Occupy cannot and should not be criticized because of the problems it is trying to fight?
most of my artist friends maintain the detached professionalism that has come to define the artistic community and use this posture to aggressively squelch the idea that art and political life are connected.
i am so happy to see the movement expressing dissent against the arts, as I see this as one of the most tragic aspects of our dying culture.
when the real artists out there get liberated...WATCH OUT!
That was mentioned in a book I recently read, The author stated that many artists felt art shouldn't be political. Also he mentioned that proto-fascist groups like the Tea Party exist b/c liberal institutions such as universities, liberal churches, labour unions, and the Democratic Party have failed America and thats why people are so pissed off at them. Many of these institutions have sold out to the 1%. The book is The Death of the Liberal Class by Chris Hedges. Its a good read. The author believed that a rebellion like this wouldn't happen though.
You continue to resist! I honor your bravery... Your "truth force" is creative and strong.
The Lincoln Center receives 5% of its budget from public funding. The other 95% comes from private donations. The Occupy Movement has no more right to assemble there than they do inside my living room.
Yes, it's very difficult for OWS to find public space on which to hold their demonstrations. It's difficult for ANYONE to find space in New York City to hold assemblies because New York City is the most popular, sought-after, and therefore, expensive real estate in the world. Has anyone thought of that?
Take my word for it... if you wanted to hold demonstrations here in Morrisville, NC, you wouldn't have much of a problem because millions of people aren't clamoring for space here.
I legitimately want to understand your beef, so here's my perception so far:
The primary injustice lies in the disproportionate holding of land and real estate by a certain percentage of people (the 1%). The reason it is unjust is because land is something that no one person or group of people should own and have exclusive rights to -- be it to live upon themselves or to profit from others living there. Since to rectify this currently requires action in the political arena, the 1% have a further advantage because they control the levers and switches of that arena. And because changing that dynamic would require a more forceful (and possibly violent?) uprising, OWS has resolved instead to peacefully occupy (sit/camp/live upon) those illicitly held pieces of land to demonstrate their convictions regarding private vs. communal property.
If I've gone wrong somewhere in my thinking, please let me know.
Great to hear that Philip Glass is in on this--I remember hearing a wonderful story from a friend of his about how, when he was still driving a cab in NYC, two ladies in the back were talking about a wonderful performance (a premiere, I believe) of a composition by this brilliant young composer; Glass turned around and informed them that he was the man in question. The arts do not belong to the 1%--they belong to Jack Kerouac and Gary Snyder and other members of the 99%. The Hamptons do not own the arts.
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IT IS WONDERFUL to feel the unified purpose and power of the OCCUPY movement building critical mass and expanding awareness!
Please, if you care to, read my take on the events as they occured last night!
POWER TO PEOPLE!
http://markezramerrill.blogspot.com
Gandhi and MLK both understood that the bringing together of massive crowds in singular purpose, non-violently, sent a strong warning to the powers in control about what could happen if this many people disagreed with the power structure but did so violently. They used the implied potential of violence non-violently.
when i saw the opera, i was struck by the irony of this humble, populist message in a snob vanity production being funded by the 1% and affordable to be seen only by the 1% (somehow i got a free ticket!). you realize that the singers, musicians, directors, set and costume people, highly compensated though they may be, are really just working at the behest of the 1%. suppose that sid and mercedes bass liked NASCAR instead of opera- all those people working at the MET would be out of a job. in europe, opera houses and ballet companies are funded by the state, not by the whims of a few rich people. then lo and behold, i read that sid and mercedes are divorcing. he, it turns out, is sick of the opera. how will that affect the MET, i wonder. these institutions should not be funded by the 1%. art is for everyone
So every bondman in his own hand bears the power to cancel his captivity. William Shakespeare(1564 – 1616), Julius Caesar, Act 1, Sc. 3. No violence please.
the force was British banking banking the problem it used to be illegal to charge interest and for a good reason If OWS wanted a plank for a platform making the charging of interest illegal would go a long way to eliminating the constantly expanding debt the US faces. And the indebtidness that ENSLAVES people like a student loan that will take 20 years to pay back, the bank gets money for 20 years from that loan. Incredible that if the government wants educated people to be "subjects" to pay them tax then they should educate everyone that wants a education to the level they want, for free. If educated people are good for a country, then it follows that the gov. will do everything in its power to educate everyone without putting everyone in debt for life. OWS should chant NO MORE DEBT. OWS should chant No more government loans, make the government run on CASH not credit quit asking for change and tell them the change you want. interest is ILLEGAL EDUCATION is free for US residents thru college.
Phillip Glass speaks to OWS GA at Lincoln Center http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmV95zxFxRA
OWS gathering at Lincoln Center is not a protest against art. General Assembly with Mic Check invites participation from every one - the 99%, including those who like art! As George Lakoff says in his blog on OWS, DO YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR FELLOW CITIZENS? And if so, HOW ARE YOU SHOWING THAT YOU CARE (about the Homeless, the Students with heavy debts, the Unemploy ...)? What does your lifestyle say about your caring?
I an sending links to two best websites on Mahatma Gandhi
http://www.gandhifoundation.net/ http://www.gandhiserve.org/
totally screwed up. Now going to blockade museums and art centers. Going after art sounds very nazi like.
gene sharps work on non-violent resistance is worth a read. no fear the double-speak of the kocks and bloomberg registers with the rest of us.
i've started a blog on direct democracy forms - have a look if you like: http://samplocracy.wordpress.com
What percentage of the Lincoln Center's operational budget is provided for by city funding?
Lincoln Center is 11 different organizations, each one is run by a board of directors. Most funding is thru individual donations.
The Occupy Wall St. Movement has no leverage to force change and until OWS gets some leverage nothing will change.
If OWS blocks traffic and shuts down business as usual, OWS will have leverage to force change.
The forgotten must block traffic to remind the forgetful of the needs of the forgotten.
Don't follow the leaders. Block traffic with your friends.
Guidelines For Non-Violent Civil Disobedient Traffic Blocking. http://occupywallst.org/forum/guidelines-for-non-violent-civil-disobedient-traff/
How many will take part in the hunger strike?
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Being that you are against privatizing what seems to be just about everything, it can be determined that you want to grow the government and by doing so allowing a few elites to control you. My question to you is why? This is why you are labeled a marxist/communist movement.
How can the Police/Fire department, for example, be OWNED by a private company? For whom would these employees serve other than those who can PAY for such social services.
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OCCUPY WALL STREET BUTTONS!
Made in the USA. We donate to OWS!
Free Shipping Offer! www.OccupyButtons.org .
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IT IS THE HOME BASE BUSINESS THAT WILL GET BIG BUSINESS' ATTENTION!!! I am very impressed with the movement that has sprung now globally regarding those who insist on occupying asking for a fair share. Whereas I am impressed by the initial response to the knowledge of having been cattle all these years and now desiring to be included in living, I challenge with a question “what is your next move?” A gathering or a march alone without a contingency plan is “IMPOTENT”. Certain ethnic groups look for equal inclusion and find solace in mouthpieces like Al and Jesse to bolster their cause with words but absent of action ignoring the roots of their own history which affected change that they benefit from today which was “the boycott”. Sure, there are many people charged up at the moment but without steering them in a direction of action once after the whole world has come out to occupy it will certainly fizzle from what began an undaunted mission of ground troops. Truly, truly comrades, the ground is fully laid out and the question now is how to erect the walls? While there is protest in the streets still the employers who are the 1% have their oxen to plow their fields or manpower to drive their riches and why should they consider giving the 99% any more than they have? After all, what are they going to do, Quit? Doubtless! The thing that Big Industry has capitalized on is the masses being unorganized! NO, I’m not talk about gathering as a organized bargaining unit (Unions), No; what I’m submitting to the “Occupy” movement is PHASE TWO and “Boycott the MACHINE” while, at the moment, having need to be attached to it. Take the funds that your current employer pays you and collectively invest in a home based business. Find a reputable Network Marketing Business and use your massive network to generate wealth that you would never get from a raise while working as “Cattle” for your current herdsman. Your employer [herdsman] hopes that you remain asleep and not come to recognize the economy that exist within you in order for them to remain in control over it. This is the opportunity that you have been waiting for. This is the dream that you have dreamed to be financially free and independent. The only thing standing in your way is your fear of the unknown and your comfort on the pastures. The path I follow is in my website. The path you search out and find is up to you. In order to go to a level beyond talks and demonstrations is language that those you protest against understand and respect. This is the model that Robert Kiyosaki calls the “Business of the 21st Century” (look it up on Youtube). My name is Charles Burns and I AM MONA-V-IE! [for Vendetta] Join here:http://ceburns.mymonavie.com Watch here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1ikQQk8cJQ&feature=related
Dar Charles, There are over 2 million non-profits in the US, most of them devoted to a mind boggling array of social justice delivery. They represent about 9% of total employment (in 2009).
They often hook up with local businesses for promotional sales to raise money. Your idea would be additive to this.
I would like to see enough employment to compete with corporations that now determine work rules, etc, so that there is a greater voice for workers along with unions to counter regressive voices that now dominate the discussion of what work is about,
I can show you and all of the "Occupy" occupants how to empty the stables that so many are working in as cattle and become financially free and self sufficient challenging Big Business to change their culture due to scarcity of personnel. Do you want them to let you in or do you want to be financially FREE? If there is someone in the Occupy Movement that is looking for this then let me know, Only serious inquiries please. I am offering you all the opportunity to take the wind out of the Corporate Sail.
I am only looking for someone that is ready to DO something...someone that is looking to take it to the next level. Simply moving from issue to issue will not change it....only Change will change it. I offer you an opportunity NOT to Wait for Change but to Bring Change-to be the Change you Call for.
While many loiter, a mother shoots her own daughter critically in a Texas Welfare office b/c she's denied benefits. If your movement provided a vehicle for her to Tap into to chart her own course instead of her waiting for a government who never will allow her this Chance for Real Change then Perhaps her daughter would have Christmas happily w/ her mother.
Freedom of speech and the right to assemble peacefully is beautiful and is when Change has conception but Real Change is Born out of Revolution. This is what I offer those of you who presently Occupy. Soon they will claim you as simple loiterers. Presently, perhaps, they are attempting to make laws to snag you. Beat them at their game with their game unconventionally so. Cause them to wonder what hit them when they realize they do not hold all of the cards but that you have monetary cards of your own. If you are looking for a serious Revolution that history will mark as NOT just another rally then I look forward to you joining me.
JOIN HERE: http://ceburns.mymonavie.com Distributor I.D.# 3205104 Customer Service: 1-866-217-8455 [100PV minimum] After joining, sign up two friends through the website and distributor i.d. number provided you upon signing up and then duplicate this process in those that sign up so that they each sign up two ppl through their website or using their distributor i.d. number until every person has signed up their two people (one on their right and one on their left).
EMPTY THE STABLES and END THE DAY OF THE CORPORATE SLAUGHTER HOUSE!!!
With staging the commendable platform of the Occupy Movement comes the responsibility of providing solution to those who were hopeless who now hopefully look on.
museums are one institution that the 99% are fully afforded opportunity to. might #ows be running out of ideas? http://littlebiggy.org/4660547
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Before the battle of Karbala, the world knew only the rule that “The Might is the Right”. However, the day of Assura introduced even more powerful rule to this world; “The Right is the Might” . Now, the blood of the innocent could win over the sword of a tyrant. Mahatma Gandhi (Indian political and spiritual leader) writes: “I learned from Hussein how to achieve victory while being oppressed.” According to the great poet Rabindranath Tagore, Hussain’s sacrifice indicates spiritual liberation. He writes: “In order to keep alive justice and truth, instead of an army or weapons, success can be achieved by sacrificing lives, exactly what Imam Hussain (A.S.) did” Such an everlasting victory can only be achieved by the one who totally believes and trust in the Almighty God.
http://meis.as.nyu.edu/object/PeterJChelkowski.html http://www.al-islam.org/nutshell/personalities/4.htm http://www.islamicwisdom.net/imam-hussain-views-of-non-muslim-scholars
Before the battle of Karbala, the world knew only the rule that “The Might is the Right”. However, the day of Assura introduced even more powerful rule to this world; “The Right is the Might” . Now, the blood of the innocent could win over the sword of a tyrant. Mahatma Gandhi (Indian political and spiritual leader) writes: “I learned from Hussein how to achieve victory while being oppressed.” According to the great poet Rabindranath Tagore, Hussain’s sacrifice indicates spiritual liberation. He writes: “In order to keep alive justice and truth, instead of an army or weapons, success can be achieved by sacrificing lives, exactly what Imam Hussain (A.S.) did” Such an everlasting victory can only be achieved by the one who totally believes and trust in the Almighty God.
http://meis.as.nyu.edu/object/PeterJChelkowski.html http://www.al-islam.org/nutshell/personalities/4.htm http://www.islamicwisdom.net/imam-hussain-views-of-non-muslim-scholars
Never mind, I found it... the Lincoln center receives 95% of its operational budget from private donations, and 5% from public funding. Therefore, it is no more a publicly owned space than the home of anyone on Medicare, TANF, or VA assistance. A small percentage of tax funding does not entitle you to make a home there.
The same is true of Zuccotti Park. It is owned by someone who spent his/her money to purchase it, and if you spend time there, it is at his/her good pleasure.
That may be true, but we are losing more and more public space every year. A lot of land is privately owned, and many of these private owners collude with a lot of alliances to make sure that more and more land is not in the hands of the public. It's okay to own a park, but it's another thing to collude against interests of the public. If you want to own a park, that's fine. If you want to own a park and then collude against the public, we're going to occupy it. If less and less parks are public, then we have little choice. We have to occupy it.
What exactly is the purpose for occupying LC? Lots of mixed messages here. If folks don't like the production of Satyagraha, then I say don't attend it. If folks don't like that there is corporate money involved in the funding of LC, then who should fund all the wonderful productions put on here ? Loads of private donations keep this cultural center alive and vibrant. I guess I just don't get the purpose for this.
Paying money for something doesn't afford anyone unlimited rights, especially in the case of Zuccotti Park, which made a deal with the city, and recieved valuable development rights in return. You sound like a factory owner, who thinks he can beat his employees at will.
That seems like a large leap to me. Do you believe that I don't have a right to determine who will get into, let alone drive or sleep inside, my car that I have paid for?
A building to which I hold the deed is a far cry from workers to whom I pay wages. One, I own and can develop and alter at my pleasure, within zoning ordinances. The other, I am in a business relationship that continues to exist at the mutual pleasure of each party involved.
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When a hornet invades a beehive the bees surround the individual and "non-violently" smother the hornet with their overwhelming bodies. The hornet dies from the increased temperature the mass of bees create. Very "passive" way of removing an enemy. Sounds like hundreds of OWS Zombies surrounding a hand full of cops. Some of the Cops may sting a few Zombies in self defense, but ineffectual against the mindless mass of these "peaceful" drones.
You're making some big and biased accusations.... "Sounds like hundreds of OWS Zombies... " and "... the mindless mass of these "peaceful" drones".
What nitwit came upnwith the hunger strike idea ? Throwing a tantrum will change policy? Grow up OWS!!
Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh throw tantrums every day. Apparently, it seems to work.
Beck and Limbaugh are tools. Their tantrums are a joke.
only works with the mindless ditto heads
There is no need to insult people, your attitude is terrible. I do think you are right that a hunger strike is a bad idea. The 1% won't care if we starve ourselves. Most of them have no morals or conscience. Besides many people are already on an involuntary hunger strike because they can't afford food.
If by non voilent protests you mean being fucking annoying with youri idiotic mike checks then OWS deserves to be tossed out of lincoln center. Please have every OWS protester join the hunger strike, perhaps the the movement will be dead before I go and see the nutcracker! MORONS!
What happened to you that made you so mean. We're you abused as a child? Why are you so angry? People are only protesting b/c crooked banks kicked them out of their homes, they can't pay their bills, healthcare is private rather than public like in most developed nations, and they can't afford an education. How does fighting for the right to live make one a moron?
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Gee Wiz. Occupy is always trying to gain power by associating itself with other thoughts and movements. Philip Glass now? When will Occupy define a voice of its own. This constant borrowing is starting to be way lame. Sure, it's very postmodern, but come on.
Occupy needs to morph into an alternative political party...so it can concentrate of most meaningful occupations, elected office!
Criticism and judgment - doesn't accomplish much. Have fun with that.
Criticism doesn't accomplish much? Are you kidding? Great thinkers need great critics. Criticism and auto-criticism is super important. It helps to sharpen ideas. Luckily, René Descartes didn't follow your advice, and instead of shying away from critics, he published their counter-arguments to his philosophies right in his book. I guess you never went to university if you think criticism is a bad thing. Wow! I'm astonished by the lack of depth in your thinking. "Criticism doesn't accomplish much" - I just can't get around the naivety of that comment.
There's more than one kind of criticism. The constructive kind that's helpful and the insulting kind which is abusive. The comment was insulting. Hence, my previous comment.
There's nothing insulting about it, and I have explained my point of view in many other comments on this forum. Occupy needs to stop borrowing from other protests and start creating a core of its own ideas. It needs particular solutions for the particular problems face in America. Taking a bit of direct action from Ghandi, a tad of anarchy from the Spanish, a smidgeon of communism from Russia, etc... is not the way to find solutions for America's problems.
Can you explain how my comment was abusive? I find this accusation quite interesting. How did I abuse you or any other Occupy protesters. Do you know what abusive means?
I don't believe OCW cares much about what they 'look' like. They're interested in an outcome and I'm sure they'll do what works. Constructive criticism provides alternative ideas in contrast with what they're currently doing so you can express how something could be done better than what's being done now. The only thing you accomplished is you insult them, call them lame, and gave no alternative. Constructive means your contribution here is to point them in a positive direction. Personally, your contribution here is nothing more than demoralizing and worthless. If what they are doing is truly 'lame', as you said, then you must know a better way but you never shared that info. That info is necessary for them to see that. Otherwise, it's just a useless insult that accomplishes nothing and I'm sure OWS isn't going to care about your 'perspective' which happens to be negative.
I provided many alternatives. You just haven't read my posts in the forum.
Here read this one. I offer a solution at the end of it, and it many of the omments.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/deconstructing-occupy-a-message-within-a-message/
I guess I'll remind you of your post "Gee Wiz. Occupy is always trying to gain power by associating itself with other thoughts and movements. Philip Glass now? When will Occupy define a voice of its own. This constant borrowing is starting to be way lame. Sure, it's very postmodern, but come on." Where's the alternative?
Interesting how my previous post got deleted. Too much truth I guess. Gotta hide it! Diagnosing the 1% must be against the rules here.
Occupy isn't separate from all of these voices and movements; it isn't some special interest group or marginalized voice. Occupy is all of these voices coming together harmoniously. It is about unity and solidarity. We are ALL occupy...and we are all co-creating the world. Contribute to it by doing what inspires you.
All over the place.... love your love and respect!
Your previous post got deleted? I don't know. I'm not a moderator. You should ask them why. Write a message to jart.
The second half of my post wasn't directed toward you. I know you're not a moderator.
Oh, I see. The alternative is to create a movement that deals with the particular socio-political-economical realities that face America. It means dropping the look or Russian communist propaganda for one thing. Creating a new look for Occupy. Made in America, for Americans. The be global, a group needs to work locally first, then regionally.
How can anyone drop a russian communist propaganda when there is nothing like that going on? I don't recall any info anywhere from the OWS wanting communism. Where did you pull that out of? I don't want to know!
"Don't feed the trolls!" They love it when you respond!
Most of Occupy's imagery is highly or directly influenced by old Russian communist propaganda. Some posters are even perfect replicas with the words changed. Many use the same motifs, style, and colors. I'm sure you've noticed how red is an important Color for Occupy? Here are just a few. I could have picked a lot more, but I'll let you look into it. You'll find many black and red posters. And others which are exact copies of Russian posters. Just do a bit of research.
Old 1920's Russian Poster
Occupy Version
Soviet Poster
This poster is highly influenced the the drawing style and fonts of old Soviet posters.
I show this one for the colors.
Occupy strong Red & Black poster style. Many more like this. See fist in Philly.
I think origins are interesting - I tried briefly to find a translation for that "НА ПОЛВИГ ТРУЛОВОЍ-ГОТОВЫ" ("на полвиг труловой-готовы") but without success so far (means "to ??? ???-be ready!"). Still, the bottom line is that in a leaderless protest, you can't ban Communists from joining or from drawing up posters, especially when there's nothing perturbing about them except a "look and feel" that vaguely suggests some radical Communist party that clearly doesn't have a snowball's chance of taking over the U.S. any time soon at this rate. To some people, it would seem like such posters simply make good art and striking images, without necessarily being tainted with every homicidal excess of the Soviet government from a broad era of history. Now to be sure, there is something that should be perturbing about it - what's perturbing is that Americans have been forgetting our country's own proud though often tragic traditions of nonconformism and yearnings for economic equality - how many people are familiar even with the Whiskey Rebellion, the Haymarket Protest, Thoreau's On Civil Disobedience, Lysander Spooner, John Brown, Marcus Garvey, or the true "rednecks" of coal miner union activism? The borrowing of less relevant images from other countries reflects a deep poverty of the American character that has built up during a century of government-licensed corporate-owned broadcast media, and it needs to be alleviated at its source, with better knowledge of our own country.
Like I said -- look at the photos on the Facebook pages. There are not even good examples of the Soviet-themed art. If you are going to select a few photos out of hundreds, I don't think that you have strong evidence at all. Besides, the illustration is clearly ironic. You just don't get it, do you? Do you think that people take seriously the talk about a "communist front" in this day and age, when people know how damaging "red scare" tactics were to this country?
Let me tell you what I have learned by simply asking someone on a livesteam chat. The Red & Black have nothing to do with communism and anarchy. The black represents resistence, and the red, revolution. I doubt that you have done a very thorough investigation, because it did not take me that long -- I simply asked one person. Why don't you find out more about this movement? I have found that it is nothing to be afraid of.
Occupy is anarcho-communist. These are the people controlling the movement.
Give me the link to the Facebook pages you are stalking about. 95% of posters I have thus far seen are inspired by communism.
Gee, you need pictures to come up with a conclusion? Do you read books with words, too? "Most of Occupy's imagery is highly or directly influenced by old Russian communist propaganda" Look at the number of images on Facebook/Occupy Los Angeles, or Occupy Wall Street. There is a picture of Ronald Reagan on one of the Occupy Los Angeles posters. You are talking to people who know Occupy Wall Street -- you didn't even begin to do your basic research -- or you are a big liar.
I have shown your assertion to be false -- you said most posters, and I have shown you a large number of posters without any references to old soviet poster art. So you did not speak the truth, so you are a liar. Go to the facebook pages, and look at the photos. There is even a link here to the "art of OWS." Be careful when you slander someone with a slur like communist. There aren't that many communists anymore, and I doubt that there are that many in OWS. Simple statistics would bear that out.
He does this all over the place.... the quote of the day has to be "Don't feed the trolls!" HAHAHAHAHA, hehehehe...... they're fools.... don't bother giving even a slight percentage of mind to their games! PM them instead! It drives them wild! Cause they lose popularity, when u take it to that level.....hehehe
Where have I lied? I have shown you some posters which were highly inspired by Russian communist propaganda. I have also showed you one that is a direct copy. There are many more.
Show us pictures that aren't. Make a counter-argument. You're only throwing an ad hominem. Calling someone names is not a good way to debate. It's useless in the end.
OK, so just because some flyers LOOK like communist propaganda posters in the past that means that OWS is fighting for communism? According to how you think America must be at least 1/3rd communist because there's red in the american flag!! OMG!!!! Seriously, you got to be kidding to actually sit there and post beliefs on 'looks' vs. the actual truth.
According to Wikipedia "The protests are against social and economic inequality, high unemployment, greed, as well as corruption, and the undue influence of corporations—particularly from the financial services sector—on government." Is that Anarcho-communism? Why don't you just let them protest for the reasons why they are protesting and give up some psychotic need to label everything. People are so obsessed to label things vs. seeing them for what they really are and stand for. The ones always needing to label are always ones trying argue which is trying to coerce others into their perspective - aka psychological manipulation. Sorry, I didn't go to college so I can memorize a ton of labels so I can argue, debate, and judge everything under the sun and accomplish nothing. All I got to do is see things for what they are. So you might try dealing with your paranoia, eh?
Are you scared of anarcho-communists? I never said that was necessarily bad, and I never asked the protesters to stop protesting.
Do you know who is behind Occupy? Anarchists like David Graeber? Do a tad of research.
OWS is based on anarcho-communism. There are many aspects of the movement that point to this, posters is just one of many. And, it's not only the posters of the past, the newer ones have an anarcho-communist look just like this website.
Re. WE "come one" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNMt-oG24PY&feature=related by 'Faithless' & hear dem lyrics maan ;-)