Occupy 2.0 #D17
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 12, 2011, 8:19 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
Join artists, musicians, and local community members for an all-day performance event in support of Occupy Wall Street and the occupation of space and reclaiming of the commons.
Freedom of expression and the right to assemble are sacred human freedoms. Through bold, courageous actions, Occupy Wall Street has renewed a sense of hope, revived a belief in community and awakened a revolutionary spirit too long silenced. To Occupy is to embody the spirit of liberation that we wish to manifest in our society.
On Saturday, December 17th – the 3 month anniversary of the birth of this movement, we will gather to celebrate Occupy Wall Street and to occupy space together.
SATURDAY, DECEMBER 17th at 12PM
DUARTE SQ. PARK, 6th AVE & CANAL,
PROTECT & CELEBRATE THE OCCUPY MOVEMENT
FOR SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC JUSTICE
OCCUPY
Forum Post: OCCUPY MUST ACT: One Day Left Until American citizens can be detained indefinitely without charges by their own government. http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-must-act-one-day-left-until-american-citize/
Forum Post: Call to Action! Use NaSI SARs to charge your U.S. Representative and Senators who voted for the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012 (NDAA: S.1867/H.R.1540) with "Seditious Conspiracy" under U.S. Code Title 18 Part I Chapter 115 Section 2384! http://occupywallst.org/forum/call-to-action-use-nasi-sars-to-charge-your-us-rep/ DETAILS HERE: Call to Action: Use NaSI SARs to Charge Your Representative & Senators with Seditious Conspiracy http://amerikanreich.com/2011/12/10/call-to-action-use-nasi-sars-to-charge-your-representative-senators-with-seditious-conspiracy/
NDAA Citizen Imprisonment the MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE TO BE PROTESTING! NOTHING is as critical to Liberty, this is important to ALL Americans... the 99%.
People are making the calls, writing the letters and signing the petitions. So it should be top priority to OCCUPY... it IS a defining moment, either way.
Surely everyone here must realize OWS supporters may soon be facing military detention if NDAA becomes law. Is OWS losing site of the forest because of the trees? This is not political, this is a conspiracy and outright war on Americans by American government!
I suggest all OCCUPY camps to consider a simple statement to the World: --- On behalf of The American People, --- Unless citizen detainment by military is removed from NDAA, Occupy will be charging signers with Seditious conspiracy.
~ see details here: http://amerikanreich.com/2011/12/10/call-to-action-use-nasi-sars-to-charge-your-representative-senators-with-seditious-conspiracy/ ~
It can't hurt. I have to say there is growing concern and people are wondering. Like it or not, this is a test of OWS; the most defining moment yet. Gain support by addressing this or the lack of response will certainly lose a lot of supporters. You want unity, THIS IS IT. This really is no time for apathy from a movement that represent the 99%! Don't wait til it's signed into law!
Sure, Obama has threatened to veto NDAA, but NOT because it's treason, not to stop military detention of US citizens (HE REQUESTED THAT!!!)... not because he is protecting the Rule of Law, but because he is constrained. CONgress is about to present it to him... if they appease him on granting him more freedom to violate Rights, he will sign and it sure makes the whole thing worse.
THURSDAY may be the day the House and Senate make the final vote.
IT IS URGENT!
"Proof Obama will sign NDAA 1031 Citizen Imprisonment Law in a few days" http://saynotocorporateamerica.blogspot.com/2011/12/proof-obama-will-sign-ndaa-1031-citizen.html
really good article today, 'How Congress is Signing its own Arrest Warrants in the NDAA Citizen Arrest Bill' http://naomiwolf.org/2011/12/how-congress-is-signing-its-own-arrest-warrants-in-the-ndaa-citizen-arrest-bill/#comment-225
Yes, this NDAA is seriously scary stuff. Does it name those in Al Queda specifically, or does it paint a broad brush and target anyone who speaks up and costs a business some money? If it's the latter, then animal rights activists/vegetarians like me are SO toast. :-(
It specifically targets Al Queda and people who assisted in the 9/11 attaks. But it also targets anyone who plans or carries out an attack against the U.S. or its affiliates. Though, according to the War Power Resolutions Act, Sections 1031-1033 which specifically refer to the imprisonment of "covered persons," are technically not legal. I'm sure that a lot of law has that problem though.
In my opinion The Occupy Movement has been doing everything right so far. Basing the beginning of this struggle for freedom on non-violent means. It´s gonna be a long fight for a sustainable just society, and now in the beginning we must do this by non violent means such as protest, convincing, occupying and now increasing the number of strikes!
struggleforfreedom
notice: check out my new article "Human Nature and Libertarian Socialism". Hope you like it:)
I have a better idea - lets all have a campout and music fest in Duarte Park! We can pat ourselves on the back all day about how far we have come while NDAA is passed and a millionaires tax is taken off the table.
It can be a bit messy when a reporter drinks too much with his subjects. I ran into some of the leaders of the local Occupy movement and had a few too many beers with them. I promised I wouldn’t report what they said.
So here is the half of the conversation I can tell you about: “Drunk With Occupy London” at www.josephcouture.com
You're an anti-Occupy propagandist, plain and simple. The link is nothing more than you suggesting that Occupy London is filled with skinheads, and then claiming to have sat down with them.. Which, from what information I gathered from London's Occupy, it is not, and you did not. Occupy London is firmly anti-hate, and your libel of them is despicable. The fact that you've posted this same link over and over and over means that you're desperately trying to harm this movement.
Just to prove how irritating you are, I'm going to post this in response every time you try to post your propaganda site.
Our constitutional rights continue to get violated in plain sight. Unfortunately, the masses are still under hypnosis and most believe the media spin. Little by little more and more are waking up. It is slowly starting to work. Unfortunately the other side is infiltrating this movement by starting problems to make it look like the movement as a whole is the cause. Many people believe that #Occupy protesters are drug addicts, homeless, trouble making activists, gang related the list goes on. We need to find a way to weed out those who are causing the movement to look corrupted. I realize it is the media cherry picking. At the grassroots level I infect truth. The truth needs to be repeated over and over to snap more of the masses from the spell. BOTTOM LINE, OUR 1ST AMENDMENT RIGHTS ARE BEING VIOLATED. WE HAVE THIS RIGHT AND THEY ARE OPPRESSING IT. I SEE IT, AS DO MANY - THE POINT IS DRIVING HOME. I TRY TO TELL PEOPLE, WHAT DO YOU THINK? YOU , not the tv, how would you feel if you were simply standing up for a basic fundamental right, to use this right and have it violated? 1 out of every I encounter can understand the media is negative, rather than pointing out the message and the context. I will continue my work at the field level, educating those who cannot see they are simply under a spell. WAKE UP AS MANY AS YOU CAN, don't force, guide and open their eyes and minds. Many of my family & friends are unlocked cause of me. It is contagious. You must be patient, and point out the facts. As you repeat the message, the media will look like they are messing it up and the police are an obvious failure.
Media propaganda, and other forms of lies, are things we have to expect from private tyrannies and their supporters and servants. We can t let this get to us. We should try to fight it of course, but our main focus should be taking the high ground doing honest and constructive organizing and activism. Organizing a growing engaged movement with direct action such as protests, and strikes etc is important at this stage.
The Transition Phase: The Road to Freedom
struggleforfreedom
I am now a non-mainstream journalist who once worked in major media. But even from the outside and with a sympathetic view overall, I have concerns about our local Occupy movement.
By accident I ran into some of the Occupy activists. We had a few beers and we talked. Read "Drunk With Occupy London" at www.josephcouture.com
You're an anti-Occupy propagandist, plain and simple. The link is nothing more than you suggesting that Occupy London is filled with skinheads, and then claiming to have sat down with them.. Which, from what information I gathered from London's Occupy, it is not, and you did not. Occupy London is firmly anti-hate, and your libel of them is despicable. The fact that you've posted this same link over and over and over means that you're desperately trying to harm this movement.
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If I were not infringing on the livelyhood or freedoms of others I would expect to be able to protest. You people are saying to hell with anyone who might be in our way. We will do what we please.
I am not saying this, this movement is no longer viable. It has been hijacked. The message has been lost. We are under control from the banks (wall st) and the fed (the money changer temple) we no longer are free. Only free to choose from the choices presented. An illusion of freedom. We lost a long time ago, this movement is only to snap people back. Our basic rights are gone, if we cannot see this then we lose. If we expose it and repeat it eventually more and more of us will become the 100th monkey. Look into that story and more truth you will find. Use your own brain people and think about this. Not the muddying of the waters, just the core ideals. They are protesting against the money changers and those in control. The grid is in place, we have become enslaved to it, bottom line. Do we really need mobile phones, the electronic toys, garbage video games, cars, etc? If we don't have these are we being deprived? No, but if we lose food, water and shelter we are. It is owned by the banks, not by you and me. We must wake up.
I agree with you.However taking to the streets of NYC on Dec17 is not where the movement should be. They need to be at the source...Washington D.C. marching up the capitol steps. The government runs wall street and wall street is IN the government. The movement must make HASTE as soon as possible. Waiting till Jan 17,2012 to march on DC. is to late. Now is the time to be at The Capitol..before full treason is signed into law against We The People!!!
Wow, this is what I have been hoping to hear. They're the ones who allowed these companies to do what they have done.
We the people need to take people like Corzine, Bernanke, the list is never ending even back to Greenspan to justice! They need to be exposed, tried and convicted. The system that we technically own needs to be put on trial. We need this to happen. However it is too late. Next move is theirs, and once people start disappearing for standing up people will back off due to fear. I will stand up and protest, even if it means my death, once we roll over in fear then they win. The have one many battles, as have we. They play us like pawns on a chessboard. Occupy will live on until it is eliminated. Many will give up, and the rest will be locked up. This is fact, and the media will muddy it up some more stating they are against freedom, and are crazy, etc. This has to continue indefinitely until they back off. Then we need to get control of the corporations that run the show like Monsanto, GE, the media networks. The Illuminati pyramid is not what people think. They are at the top, we empower them we have the power to topple the pyramid. The problem is too many of us are so attached and entrenched and are afraid. I am ready to die as I have no fear, we must all let go of fear and ego if we are to win. Eventually the masses will see through things as do I and many of us and rise up again. It still must hit bottom and crash before the next move, this is why they continue propping the ponzi scheme, or house of cards. We can be the wind that blows it over on many fronts, OWS is just one. One of many, many of one. We need to take ideas to the people and let them vote with protest. The second we use violence they win. If we ignore they win. It is now at a point of Check move, check, move. The game is about to be had
Perhaps a false flag "terror" attack will allegedly emanate from this movement, and everyone will back off. Some will cry foul and others will want justice and more "laws" to protect them. Then the masses will demand martial law to prevent more attacks, the rest will be locked up & or rehabilitated. It is sad how they play us against each other and many don't see this fact.
this is true,but many are waking up and now see that the PTB are dividing and conquer. We can no longer let this happen.
The problem is that the power shift has taken place it will take a true shakeup of the system from down here. In 1981 Our city water dept. promoted water fluoridation. The other cities and towns had a vote. From our water system using the tooth decay BS.... People did not buy into it. They tried a few times for years and it was tossed. In 2006, they used a referendum and city councilors to convince the minorities it would be good for their childrens' teeth. They did not take vote from other towns in district this time and forced it. The minorities convinced the majority and it was touted "for the children" I had no say and other towns in the water district had no say. The fluoride was turned on. This is BS, next they will add lithium. We are being disenfranchised at all levels.
You are right on.
How long does it take for you guys to get a hint? You are wrong! Please just go back into hiding because we do not want to see you anymore.
Go back to sleep, and pretend that everything is ok. Perhaps if we stay asleep we will be left alone. Who are you calling dumb? Perhaps socialism is for you. Stop looking at the surface, what the media wants you to think or feel and read between the lines. Or go back to sleep. No grey area. I never called you dumb, so what gives you the power? Oh wait we are free. But not for much longer with this attitude. This is what got us in trouble in the past, and it is happening again. DIVISION. As long as there are things to fight about, we will never get anything done. Lets join forces and take back. We created the "government" to serve us, lets make it serve us again!
I take it you're not unemployed with a family to feed!
what makes u come to a conclusion that people who voice their opinion must be unemployed.(sarc)
Im looking at the FUTURE of my kids and the generations to come!!
We The People are just TIRED of being rigged by the system of crooked politicos in office. These banksters and politicians are reaping the benifits on the backs of the middle class. They are very selfish HOARDERS! We The People have had enough of PTB lining their pockets with our blood,sweat, and tears. My money I work HARD fore!!!
The tax system,the consumerism system ,STINKS to high heaven and benifits no one but wallstreetrs,walmarters,and congress. GROW a Victory Garden. Occupy Congress
Yes, the last part of that is what I'm talking about! Congress is the problem they are the ones who allowed these wolves in with the sheep. Are country is run by corporate lawyers. This is wrong!!! My comment about being unemployed was a response to the writer saying to go back in hiding. At this moment I cannot be very involved due to school and raising a family but I believe in the occupy movement and wish that I could be a part. We have lost everything as a result of this thievery. And trust me I'm pretty well informed about what's going on and I'm pissed. God bless you guys for taking action!
Right on!! Wow!! You are dumb as ever, I was hoping that you might smarten up, but I was wrong.
I'm sure you have a point but I'm sure it's not very sharp! Can you give me a suggestion for me, my children and my lovely Christian wife of many years?
Yes I can. Forget about god, he is not real.
I said my christian wife; I did not say anything about me. Whether God exists or not I do not know. And quite honestly I was pretty buzzed when I wrote that.
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You are plain wrong and I hate to break it to you. You have no fucking rights under our first constitution. In 1871, our second constitution was drafted, our capital moved from Philadelphia to a newly chartered District of Columbia, all a part of our nation's second bankruptcy pact, you only have privileges under it's rule and all have given implied consent. Any rights that remained intact as of 1871, FDR signed away in 1933 when the bankruptcy was reorganized.
Wake the fuck up, all of you, and study your nation's GD history as well as it's documentation! It's all hidden in plain sight.
Irrelevant if you like the idea of democracy. It should be the people living today that ought to decide what laws they have to follow, not dead slave owners.
True Democracy has never worked, long term, anywhere. Of course, I can understand why people do not care to understand why they truly have no rights in order to avoid it again. That alone is enough reason for those of us who care, and are able to understand, not to desire being anchored down by the majority who don't or cannot.
What do you propose as a solution to democracy?
The restoration of our democratic republic and a Constitutional government. You certainly are aware that our current system of plutarchy is far removed from what only lasted about 80 years?
Where did my reply to this go! I said "that sounds reasonable" and it's not here anymore! Why?
I found it! I'm just getting a little paranoid if you know what I mean! Seriously though it's hard not to see everyone as having some stupid agenda! God bless all ya for givin a crap!
The way the replies float about are a bit tedious, to say the least. Bless you too and we can all hope for much better days ahead.
That sounds reasonable!
Yes and the removal of our government from economic affairs; Regulation voted on by the people to have oversight, not control or influence. Once the barriers that protected these were taken out it led the way to free market controlling the government. Separation of church and state was a start. Separation of business and state is needed. Religion was used for control in the past. In the US 2.0 we need to take influence out of the lawmaking that favors business. Leave the people in charge and we must use the regulations that work. Once they de-regulated energy, the sky became the limit. Then we got soaked. Same with food, and finances. Glass Stegall was eradicated and that was part of the problem. Re-institute energy regulation and food price controls. Lets go back to the 80s at least there were some levels of control that made things work. We were left with the rest of the free market, look what lifting regulations and controls did. Did nothing for us , only helped those that convinced us that it would help competition. They broke up ma bell and other monopolies. Everything is a monopoly through subsidiaries and controlled by parent companies. This needs to be split up the same way the bells were. Anti trust laws need modification as well.
I'm thinking wipe it clean to 1870 or 1861 and tweak things as needed to make all reasonable persons comfortable with proceeding.
Most all of which you refer to are either unlawful under common law, or outside the boundaries place on the people's federal government, by our first constitution.
The original 13th amendment being restored will greatly simplify many things, including laws which are written in plain English able to be understood by reasonable people, and a government which does not act outside of those same bounds.
Agreed. We need to scrap the current system, revert back and move forward slowly. We really need to go back to the drawing board quite literally. Time for "New Deal" 2.0, these ideas are great, how do we implement? On another note our "buddy" has been quiet for now.
Article V Constitutional Convention, with or without Dr. Paul as president.
The supreme court has indeed ruled that both systems of government still exist in this nation and the one outside of DC is the one that needs all it's seats filled and reconstructed from the ground up.
http://www.barefootsworld.net/consti16.html
Be able to pass this test and know the subject well enough to pass any test on it, most likely a combination of multiple choice and written with no open books. I suspect it will be required to have a say, as well as though it should.
Any democracy seeking solutions which advocate that any and everyone shall have a voice in the people's government is doomed to fail for being unable to proceed beyond the weakest links, other than for the clever minority to put the fawks to the majority, which then, the democracy, lends itself being perfectly poised for the first major division once people realize that merely having a pulse does not qualify anyone to have a say in matters of vital importance regarding, running of a nation, it's people, it's money and it's armies.
Buddy is exactly what I said. I saw enough to be 100% certain. One thread in particular was surgically sanitized, although there are plenty others still intact.
Do you think "buddy" is data mining and possibly monitoring?
I think that and more is certainly taking place.
This is bad...and can be worse. They have our numbers... If my gut went w/CIpro you know the "antibiotic" as did yours then possible. I think this is becoming a setup of sorts There are a few contexts that stood out as if it is a intelligence. Adaptation to personality.
Frog, I was waiting for someone else to point this out. I had no say in this I was born into it so it does not apply. If you don't let it own you then you are free. Once we separate from this then we can organize and take back. I do agree with the fact that you point out , esp FDR's new deal and HJR192. We need the people to take control and expose this, nothing more. If the people knew they were sold out and born into bondage they would revolt. Instead they play us against each other with these games until there is no "freedom" left. We were born slaves. I was born free and I care not about countries, laws and nations. As long as I am free in my mind, freedom has not died. They give us enough "freedoms" and choices to think they are free. Nothing more. If we could unite we could overthrow. It will happen, it is a matter of time. Great Brittan took over the world again but through a different approach,and continues its quest. What I am trying to say here is that if we exercise the rights and expose that we don't have them then the jig is up, is it not? Instead the masses are still asleep and don't care. It is unfortunate that the plantation masters know who the servants are but the servants have no idea.
It never ceases to amaze me that very few people even comprehend that our first and organic Constitution was indeed a bankruptcy pact between the states, per Article 6, to pay the nearly 150 million dollars (of real gold backed money) that the revolutionary war. Freedom and independence from the UK was not cheap, nor long lasting.
Many scoff at this fact when it only requires careful examination of historical facts well documented in our own congressional archives, as well as other sources.
Jackson paid the first BK off and fought off the Royal Crown's bankers. The second BK was for a staggering amount, 330million per citizen of 1851 gold backed money, and the terms were indeed impossible, setting the stage for the compromise of allowing the Federal Reserve to be instituted, fully exploit it's control setting the stage for the great crash and depression via proven methods of wealth extraction.
After that, FDR was presented with an offer he couldn't refuse because he was a weak and morally repugnant man. Had it been my call, our nation would have made war with the appropriate adversaries, in 1871 and again, in 1933 if necessary.
Despite your good intentions you undermine the 99% you call the “masses” fallen asleep. The 99%have come together by the common conditions they experience. This is where OWS power is derived from. The 99% is fully awake and is the source from which everything flows. The 99% will succeed because there is no alternative. Your job as an occupier is to facilitate, disseminate, and abandon yourself to the task if you can or step aside. No vanguards, and no leaders are necessary to manage the unity of the 99%.
Global Economics 101 The crux of the problem is simple, the policy makers manipulate the economy with the premise that the rich create the jobs and thus channeling the wealth of the economy to Wall Street! This lopsided ideology couldn’t be more corrupt, which is evident by the instability of the world economy teetering on the edge of collapse and the increased worldwide social unrest brought on by mass poverty! The economy is stalled because the policy makers have done everything in their play book to keep the markets (cost of living) elevated, when in actuality they need to come back down to reality! The longer the markets are held at an artificially high level, the weaker the base becomes risking total collapse and further global anarchy (pressure seeks it’s own level)! To correct this mess you need to eliminate investor tax incentives, loopholes, bailouts, subsidies, tax breaks, tax caps, caps on fines & penalties, etc. The Fed needs to raise interest rates back up to 6% or 7% to motivate intelligent investors to move their money out of high risk markets and back into local banks where companies with sound legitimate business plans can borrow it, thus creating local jobs and a stable economy! Anyone who says the economy is recovering because the markets (inflation) are going back up is totally delusional! Stupidity is rampant in Washington and politicians are totally clueless! Increasing the wealth of a company without increasing demand for its products only leads to increasing the price of its products and executive salaries to show investors increased value, further shrinking demand and slowing growth! In 1995 the DOW (DJIA) was at 4000, it peaked in 2007 at 14000, more than doubling the cost of living. With every rally comes a recession, the bigger the rally, the bigger the recession, simply because overvalued markets increase inflation and reduce demand! The markets must be allowed to return to center, painful or not! To fix Social Security, you need to approach it with logic as well! There is currently a cap on the amount an individual is required to pay, even though there is no cap on the amount they are allowed to earn. If an individual earns 100 times what the average person earns, they should pay 100 times more! It is this type ignorance and or corruption that has created a lopsided unstable economy! Ultimately our over-valued government has an over-valued Wall Street competing with an under-valued Main Street for gas, groceries and housing, with only one possible outcome! SEC stands for “Sucks Executive C_” (Regularly)! FED stands for “Failed Economic Disaster”! Congress stands for “Corrupt, Clueless and Fowl Smelling Stagnation”! Obviously I have little respect for our government, mainly because with power comes abuse, corruption and more damned holidays at $75 million each, not to mention lost productivity and excessive benefits, which also has to be paid for! I personally, would like to see Congress replaced with an online program, which would allow anyone to create or amend laws. Any citizen could chime in and list pros & cons, every bill or amendment would have to meet certain criteria (logic) before advancing to be voted on! This would eliminate the possibility for lopsided laws, shave hundreds of billions off the annual budget and create a fare and balanced economy!
John Kelsch Fairbanks, Alaska
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I agree that there is no alternative. I undermine nobody; only offer truth. Out of the 99% only some have risen to awareness. WE WILL SUCCEED I AGREE! My job is to help get the message out, and discredit the media spin wherever and whenever I can. They are breaking down the message and only pointing out that the occupiers are causing problems and "civil disobedience"
That is part where I make the difference. That is my job. I will occupy more as I can get my time in there, I do not need to abandon and "commit suicide" ie: freeze to death take some pepper spray, get arrested and suffer to understand. I get the message. I already suffered through a financial meltdown of my own, and my home is soon to be gone. Come spring I will be out there a lot more.
It started with family and friends, and I have woken up so many.
They see that there are more than 2 sides. Strip away the bs and only truth remains. Mute the TV and watch how different things look when not narrated. Look at police pepper spraying and not being violent. Look at the police brutality. Then take the contaminated ones that go in and throw rocks at police, nothing to do with the message and stir crap. Then the narration there it would say, Occupiers causing problems again, police called in to help commuters get to work.... The media controls the masses. They report, and spin and force the decision. The American public has attention span of moths. I actually cried when watching what happened in Greece, and our country. It is all the same and is about to get even worse.
I will disagree, that I will not abandon myself. Perhaps what you mean is abandon material possessions, religious bias, bias in general, paying taxes, etc.
Media hype example, global warming is sort of truth but: Global warming fear mongers like Gore try to get people to pay carbon taxes and abandon oil, SUVs, etc but he does not. Carbon dioxide is lower than ever. Other planets are warming up, this is for other reasons. No Hummers or coal emissions are causing global warming there? They use lies and try to convince "the masses" otherwise. And people divide and fight and start movements based on this garbage. This is another example of how the media uses their influence on thought. People must think for themselves. That is what I mean by asleep. You have to dig so deep to uncover truth and debunk the lies. The people and idols that humans worship will always let them down, and they let them do it over and over.
Sometimes all you have to do to get the truth is push the mute button. A picture is more than thousands of words. It is the truth.
PUSH THE MUTE BUTTON OR TURN IT OFF!
I did not say that management is required. What is needed is more then the .000000~2% of the 99% to make it happen. If 99% of us were awake, aware and doing something about it, it would cease, change would happen and we wouldn't be protesting anymore. You and I would not be having a chat on this forum. All I am saying is we need to weed out the trolls, if not at least stand ground and wake them up. We need to keep pointing out truth and not argue. I am part of the 99% (as the elite are the 1%) , but the point is missed. Of the 99% you point out that are asleep still sit home, watch TV, sports, and have sides to take keeping division alive by doing so. I feel empowered and enlightened, but I am only .000000000000000000000001 % (even less just a point. It is happening, and I defend the right things. Many people think OWS are scum, drug users, homeless bums, etc. I see people bash them now as they don't get the message. Only repeat what the media says. We are all humanity, and its coming to a theater near all of us soon. What I mean by asleep is under the media influence. They need to wake up from the spell. That is all. I do what I can and choose to remain "stepped aside" if you will to identify what the media is doing to the occupiers by demonizing the movement. I did participate and will again when and where I can. Opinions are formed by the masses that don't have a clue. The mind control media forms the thoughts and opinions, and it is unfortunate that maybe you haven't awoken to the fact YOU ARE A SLAVE, only to think YOU ARE FREE. YOU ARE NOT, I AM NOT, ONLY IN OUR MINDS WE CAN BE FREE. I undermine nobody. I am here to guide as many to read between the lines to find the truth. The truth is the USA has been bankrupt since 1933. FACT. What we have been taught about history is BS. If you question your own point of view and realize Edison did not invent the light bulb, or Franklin discover electricity. Egyptians had this technology thousands of years before. Atomic wars have occurred on this planet before. We have been "here" before. Once you step outside the box you can also realize that we have been propagandized forever. I agree with some of the context you convey. I am not the enemy. We are humanity, you must realize the truth, the "MATRIX" is everywhere, and nowhere. That movie is parody to the world in which humans live.
Dude, you should have picked the blue pill.
He he he he This one is good. Why I am so crazy out there as I have predicted this crap years ago. There are a few "wise ones" roaming, I am so passionate and excited and trying to help us save each other. There is too much division. Stop looking to a government, look within, abandon hate, fear, etc. We need to unite under one roof. The blue pill.. I was born under the influence of the red pill unfortunately. I possibly would trade it to be a sheep. ;)
I have to admit I try too hard. I am between jobs and bored, trying to rally things up a little. Some of the movement does not know why they are doing this. This is funny you, I am smiling ear to ear with this comment.....I have always taken an outside in approach and see the masses under the spell. I am like George Carlin in a sense , front row seat to the show here on Earth. Humans are destroying themselves and putting people in to control them and destroy them. They invite this....I am a little too serious and try too hard I know....Thanks for the smile
I like your posts, though I admit to being confused sometimes!
Yea I am a little out there here there and all over the place. Here is the trick. Read the context of what I am saying. Read through my extra detail and look at the core, there is where you will find truth. Use this method with everyone and everything. Think of this mom and dad may yell at you and spank you as a child when touching the stove. One may say that this is abuse, parents are mean. Look at context. All mom and dad were trying to teach you the stove can HURT you. The yelling was the pre-warning and the spank was to try again or try harder. They really did it because they loved you and wanted to protect you. The government does the opposite, they actually outright use fear and scare tactics. They don't love us. It is sort of in reverse. And another approach , if it is too good to be true, it probably is. Strip ego and emotion out of equation. See it for what it is out there, words and info, opinions. Usually the truth will strike a chord when emotion is out of the picture. Good luck.
I am simply trying to rally those out there. We need to wake up to reality. We are bankrupt and about to be forced into "foreclosure" and re-organization.
Awesome! Let's go OWS!
I am sure that mommy told you different, but you are a complete idiot.
Occupy until everyone has productive, socially useful work. Occupy until everyone has enough healthy food to eat. Occupy until everyone has a secure and comfortable place to live. Occupy until everyone has health care whenever they need it. Occupy until everyone can expect a dignified retirement.
Can anyone answer this question for me. If the plan is to occupy what seems to be everything now, how do you justify the potential harm it can do to the other members of the 99% you claim to be fighting for? If companies go out of buisness, the very people that you are using for your battle cry will not be able to support there families and increase the number of jobless and homeless people in our country. Please spare me the partisan BS this is a legit question that someone should be able to answer.
I don't think anyone is advocating for the demise of our companies. It used to be that companies had to prove themselves for the good of the people by employing Americans. I'm not even against global trade but our governments job is to make sure it's citizens are taken care of first. Only our government can pass laws to bring jobs back. I want to see an Occupy Washington DC they're the main problem. This is the heart of it and it needs a wooden stake driven through it.
I answered a bit above and it comes from experience. That is why the system is failing. They bailout everything but the ones making it work for them, and it continues to collapse while we keep trying. I threw my hands up in the air, about to file bankruptcy (I have a 250K home worth 1/2 now, credit card debt that I never had, and tax arrears because I could no longer afford health insurance. They are taking down the middle class so everyone will depend on the government. That was the plan all along. Socialize and then we will be forced to work at a meaningless job, everything will be provided and freedom will be gone. I made this call back when Clinton was touting health care reform, and i was in high school. I was successful for my age, rose quick, but how quick things change.
Good word man. I don't know exactly how to do it but as a family guy who has been through a lot of crap because of all this I hope it can all be figured out!
Who is going to pay for all of these socialist freebies? Only those that work, and the upper class elites don't pay taxes. That leaves the middle class slaves supporting the poorest. And the middle class is who suffers, I can speak of this as I am there losing everything. I expect all of this to be promised, but it cannot happen. More and more of us get knocked off of the ladder, I had a good job, health care and retirement now its all gone. And they penalize me for no health insurance now, and tax my retirement fund as I had to pull it out to survive. I cannot get any help, OK? Sure I got unemployment for a bit, and part-time temp work, and now again back in the gutter. With each step I lose more and more. Until I am toast. This is what is happening, those that were getting closer to the top of the ladder get knocked down a few rungs, and eventually they take the ladder away and let you hit the bottom. I stepped off the ladder and I know there is now way up until I dig back out by that time it will be too late for me. Sure I and many will survive, but it is a dead end. The American dream was nothing more than a fantasy. The only way to get to the top is crush, shaft, rip off and empower yourself by doing so. That is how the elites got there. Now they will dictate us.
http://politicalgates.blogspot.com/2011/12/citigroup-plutonomy-memos-two-bombshell.html?spref=fb
https://our99angrypercent.wordpress.com/
If a person cannot read these memos and see clearly what has taken place, with rapid acceleration in the last ten years, there is little hope for them to ever understand the root causes and foundational cornerstones upon which this movement began.
those folks are too lazy to expend any effort learning......the smart ones will try to learn.....
We are sorry for your depression, now is the time to stand up, reject the shackles and prepare to be free.
I have freed myself. I have some things to finish up with. I am still in my home just not paying for it anymore. Waiting to see when they will evict, it hasn't happened yet. I estimate sometime in spring. I have not paid most of my income taxes owed. I am operating with cash and hard assets out of the banks. I work wherever I can. My "financial depression" if you will is directly tied to the timeline. I lost my job Sep 17th 2008. I knew this was coming with the cuts at StateStreet back in February 08, I pulled out everything before the crash. Just my gut feeling as I had seen the .com bust and the Y2K scam. I was working on the trading floors then. When a bank/financial institution cuts the Information technology budget, look out - bad times around the corner. They went from expanding, hiring, opening new buildings, to the opposite within a 2 week time frame. They were hustling production, then departments started to go missing when I was migrating them. Mostly everyone lost their jobs within 6 months. I was @ Citizens Bank from 1998-2001, and after 9/11 I saw the same pattern. With another company I worked for after Inacom. My former employer , Inacom Information Systems (part of MCI World Com) pulled an ENRON, on everyone. They kept buying up other IT solutions companies, expanding, then encouraged employees to buy stock back in '99-'00. I thought this was risky, but the big dinners/lunches and lavish functions brainwashed 90% employees to bite. Stocks went fom $20-$50/share to $70-$80+. I knew to pull out, I did after consulting with an investor at the bank who I worked with. He smelled "insider trading" just by looking at the charts and info I gave him. I warned as many as I could, some did not listen and within a week stock went to penny and company went bankrupt. This corruption has been going on for some time. I have been unlocking minds and people that know my situation know to listen. I have never steered anyone wrong. I do my best here with friends and family, and those that know them. They are afraid of me as I am some prophet or something. I am awake, and don't care if they take my house. I know I did well for a time and the good times are over. Once I finish winding down I will be out there more. I am spreading my story as it is truth, and I can relate with experience. Some come on here and demand free healthcare, handouts, etc. I am trying to help put things in perspective for some. I feel the pain, as this whole time resonates with me and many. No need to apologize for my situation. I needed it to wake up and awake those that think things are "getting better" they are not HYPERINFLATION is next!
Right on, see you in the trenches! Yours is a powerful story. Many, as you witness are looking for handouts, free healthcare and such because that is their mindset and the space they occupy. They too deserve their stories. The landscape will only grow sadder until the earth reclaims itself once again and starts anew. We have a choice to embrace this process and help each other survive the shift or perish divided. Hone your wilderness survival skills they may come in handy, embrace peaceful resistance, love and help all you come in contact with and the best to you in solidarity!
Love what you say here :)
Already took a couple of sabbaticals and lived out there for a month at a time in a tent. I have some spots, I can go to work from there and have tested myself. I underwent survival training in boy scouts; I have made a water distiller and am the real deal once the time comes. I am ready for that day, my backpacks, wilderness skills, street legal dirtbike, mountain bike, kayak, fishing poles you name it - ready and passed my own tests. I actually want the financial system to collapse so we can regroup and rebuild it sooner than later. I will help whoever I can. It is sad to see it heading this way, but all good things come to an end.. I was at the top of the game once, and it never felt right. I saw colleagues getting ahead, and using people to do so. I couldn't consciously follow their lead, as they were encouraging me to do. My superiors were pushing me to screw others over and to make others look bad so I could get ahead. I rode out my position, and eventually I was stepped on so someone else got ahead. I will not play that game. This is the tribulation, and many will sell their souls to keep their position or advance themselves. It is at the core how things really are. I will not give into the temptation, ever. My heart wont allow it. I suffered for a bit, rode the wave down and know at least I gave it my honest effort and did not give into the evil. Thanks for your reply, I'd rather be in the trenches, simply surviving and being true to myself - than screwing over, shafting, and wrecking my way to the top or going along with others doing the same. I lost my job because I opposed my superior - I disagreed with his mandate, we were on a tight budget and I was to deploy pirated software so we could under-bid the account. In pointing this out I was told I have a job, and will do as I am told or there are others that can replace me. 9 years of devotion to a company - to this? Unethical I called it , I did what I was told. They treated me like crap in the time following this - I rode it to the end and didn't even put up a fight when losing my career. I welcomed it - it has in a way been a vacation from the stress. I found myself again - that is all that mattered, the rest is material. That can be replaced if I choose, but not my soul - I will not ever trade that for anything. I reported the company and my employer to the BSA, and even got a big reward for doing so after the audit. I had already lost my job, and it did not matter about the reward, I took it anyway but was not the reason. My testimony was used to serve justice. I felt liberated and would have done it sooner. I must say many people would have kept their mouth shut and never questioned authority due to fear. It feels so good to not fear anything now. Take care - peace
Anytime I suggest that publicly owned corporations, the stock market and all other enterprises which exist solely to extract wealth, without adding any value to goods, off the works and production of others, people, even intelligent, educated and good people, bristle and instantly reject such an idea.
At the very least, such entities should never operate with any intimacies or ties between themselves and the people's government. If people want to gamble, do so at their own discretion and risk.
Far too many people have their retirements and life's savings thrown in the gambling pool expecting they'll always come out on top, and if not, any cheating or harming others, will certainly be brought to justice.
Bottom line, wealth extraction without adding any value, is ethically, morally and just plain wrong. As such, it would be prevented under common law.
EXACTLY. My arguement with the hubby all the time. Told him to move that cash and turn it into things that value...precioues metals like gold,diamonds,and silver. That fake paper money can go up like a poof of smoke.
I like gold and silver, but, there are enough diamonds left in the ground for every person on the planet to own 1 million+ of them. Buy them if you know what you are buying, but, I tend to stick to very practical things.
The sad thing is some of the PTB have already exited to Panama and Belize with the money they stole and hoarded.
And a lot of Hollywood actors have bailed from California. Gulf coast, Texas Forida, etc are building up Marine Police forces/highway patrol has boat fleet for better waterway security. BULL, it is to stop us from going down there. I hope the natives eat them for breakfast. This really is the PRISON PLANET!
I know exactly what you speak. I remember the .com bust very well, I saw it coming. I worked in new home construction for 8 yrs.The handwriting was on the wall by October 2004...that bubble was bursting at the seams. By Dec.2007 the bubble pop. The company I worked for started laying off people in May 2005.By Dec 2006 we had a skeleton crew. But we weren't the only builders in trouble,many collaspe..went bankrupt. The open land that was cleared for houses,sat until this year.The lots have been turned into apartments.
I lost my position Jan.2008. I got a large severance pay,survived on that and unemployment. I eventually cashed out some of my 401k's. If my husband didn't have a career,the ship we sailed would have sunk. We are barely staying afloat. I work a part time job,but I will never be where I once was. Im almost comfortable with that. I have few headaches. However,my husband who wanted to retire,has put it off.He is carrying the boatlad,and it really HURTS me to see him with this weight. I, on the other hand will never retire.
Im just tired of being rigged,and for the sake of my children,my grandchildren, I don't want their futures RIGGED,and STOLEN,by the PTB.
As of now they are already stolen. There is time, just don't let them fall for the spells and lies... Good luck to you and keep afloat. I have the life boat on standby - remember; there is no freedom in reality, it is in your mind only. As long as you have that place you can go you are free to think, free to fantasies, free to draw, sing, create something, help someone, smile, etc. Free to let them not totally get to you, The rest is just survival and controlling your part of the "grid" or "matrix" they created. They made the system, we can use it to defeat them. We will prevail. TEACH YOUR CHILDREN HOW TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES AND QUESTION EVERYTHING.
My kids are grown. But I got 2 kids who works for the mortgage and tax system. Hard for these 2 to see otherwise. I try not to bug them to much. The youngers have a differnet view. Im just concern about the grands future for sure. I want them to have the same opportunities I had or better. But I don't want the consumer.tax life for them. I want them to have freedom!!
I am glad I was exposed to all ages. The senior folk, always were similar to my parents, then following generations demoralize. I saw these trends very young and questioned everything. I can solve any problem and saw this coming 10 years ago, just didn't think it would happen this quick. I figured I had till about 45-50, 10 years sooner than I predicted. Society has changed, men have feminized, women masculine, culture is under control of media. Love is defines as sex. There is a little bit, but not like it was I saw the media culture rip it away from the last generation. I happen to hang onto values, open minded - I see why elders did not want change on certain traditions, they sort of saw what was coming. I have that insight too.
Yeah, its happening all right. But change is inevitable. The best way is to intercept it and co-opt it like Capitalism does, instead of fear it and attempt to hide it in the closet.
No fear here. I just share experience, I really try to wake people up. There are a lot of people on here set in ways from this programmed culture. Outside in approach, i never follow the sheep. A jewish elder once said to me. When people get to a point the are confused they will believe anything they are told look out. Esp when poor, need work, etc. When they started loading them on trains, I ran away. I got out, and looked what happened.. We are heading there, different but all the same. Think with heart and mind, if you are left with question and question has no end or answer that makes no sense or leaves with another question - run
Hope you got some time...
You'll be there for a long time buddy.
Exactly, the food we eat is poisoned. The crap they got approved is to harm us. Food is no longer safe with chemicals and pesticides. That is causing the cancer and diseases. Then you become a customer of the other entities they control, the medical industry. You never get a cure, just treatment and drugs. More chemicals the perpetuate the disease. The water we drink is poison. Fluoride so you can have better teeth. It is so they can turn more brains to mush and make us docile. Lithium is next in the water people. They will sell it somehow, and we won't have a say yet again. Carbon taxes are on the way next, and you will be taxed based not only on what energy you consume, the carbon dioxide you exhale. Carbon dioxide is natural, it has been hijacked as another avenue to control life. Trees and vegetation can thrive and balance this gas. It was here before us. Global warming is happening on all planets. No H2's, other SUVs or coal plants on Venus or Jupiter folks. Wake up, please wake up. The scientists are paid even if they disagree. They are told they will lose their grant monies and way of life. Threatened just like you and me but in another facet of reality. It is time to scrap the system and start over.
I agree totally. I will begin to grow my own fruits and veggies in the spring, now that I have my own land to do that with. I have said the same thing to people..... that the FDA and USDA approve such trash they call food, it makes us sick, and then we have to spend shitloads to treat ourselves medically. It's all a damn game. Why are those harmful, toxic things that are found in our food supply banned in other countries?
Because the lobbyists pay to make laws to approve them, or lower standards of safety. Europe has banned so many things for a reason. They are not toxic by themselves. But think of chemistry. Your stomach is acid, and liver has chemical reactions. Take table salt, Sodium Choride. Its needed by the body, but drink chlorine bleach or eat sodium metal, inhale chlorine gas and they will all kill you. The chemicals work in compounds in the body. Sodium Benzoate in most energy/soft drinks a preservative. Add vitamin C to the mix in your body and through the liver it turns the combo into Benzene. Benzene that is a petroleum solvent known to cause leukemia. Europe knows this but Americans don't. I took organic chemistry , and understand enzyme/chemical reactions , ph levels, etc and what turns into what. The drug companies get this stuff approved so you later need chemotherapy or treatment from this poison. It is sad, they try to soak us for all money and eventually get it out of us on our deathbed. Cancer is mostly from the chemicals in the food.
All food dyes, or AZO dyes are petroleum based chemicals. Bad stuff. Potassium Benzoate, Monosodium glutamate (MSG) Aspartame (aspartic acid , phenylalanine separates back into methanol/formaldehyde from which it is formed) the list goes on.... It is all about money, FDA Food and drug administration - they create the diseases in the Food, and the Drugs to treat the diseases created. It is simple regulation of the industry. Just like the Federal reserve regulates the interest rates that regulate the banks in the credit markets. Regulation and control. This is one way the elites control the population and make money at the same time. USDA is different though. US department of Agriculture regulates things in a more protective manner. Just look at all the lawsuits on TV for drugs FDA approved, vioxx, the birth control deaths, take no new drugs! Simple antibiotics if needed, (penicillin, amox ok)avoid vaccinations, only basic pain meds morphine/codeine if needed only, aspirin, and if you need blood pressure meds older beta blockers. Stay away from fluoride products, fluoridated water, fluoroquinilone (fluoride antibiotics) anti depressants all crap. Teflon cookware (fluoride based) statin drugs for cholesterol avoid all the toxins
Thank you for this info.
Free to share, all you got to do is question everything that leaves you in doubt. If someone or media tells you how to think, research it. Consider all sources. If example I say , rat poison is safe, you can eat it now would you? But if I called it methyltryptamide, a new supplement is shown buy our study to help with cancer? Would you look into this or buy it ? Say this made up name was an ingredient in rat poison. If you make the connection you would not. If there is a question and a negative point of view that is always an alarm for concern with everything. The study proves it prevents cancer by killing you from organ failure sooner.. Do you get it now??? Remember back in the day EGGS are bad, cholesterol is bad butter is bad.... EGGS are good now again? It was the trans fat that was bad in margarine that caused the higher cholesterol. You have to do all your own homework on everything. That was to steer everyone and was a test. They do it with wine and chocolate all the time. All test markers, and people go back and forth, it keeps us all confused and divided so nobody ever listens to one another and listens to the TV .....Take care
I think of my great-grandparents who lived on the land and died in their 90's from old age.Never bought food in the store.No decease.Healthy Living.No Stress. My grandparents not so lucky. Lost 2 to cancer...city living. Never saw the 90's like their parents. My husband's grandmother lived off the land for 96 yrs.His mother moved back to the country to and lived to 87. Left the world from old age. Healthy Living. I plan on doing the same.
MIMI please read response to boil water that is worse than doing nothing. Read links please, I know chemistry and salt reduction...
There are natural supplements, lifestyle and dietary changes that can heal any disease. Do your homework, stay as close to nature with your diet, avoid fluoridated water and it will give better chances
If you can't avoid floridated water,boil. I boil all water.
No do not boil distill. Fluoride is an ion salt and cannot evaporate, it will reduce and stay behind as fluoride salt AKA sodium fluoride. Same if you put simple table salt in water, it stays behind water gone. Boiling evaporates the water itself and leaves behind more ppm of fluoride and other metals. Bad bad bad. Boiling water is ok if camping or rain water. If you have 1 part fluoride to 1 MILLION part water (part per million) that is 1 MG per liter of water
http://chemistry.about.com/b/2009/04/07/can-you-remove-fluoride-by-boiling-water.htm http://www.fluoridedebate.com/question02.html
FOR GOD SAKES PLEASE DON'T BOIL!
I wish you the best with that. When I tried it, the deer and woodchucks won.
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As long as you consider mimes "socially useful", I'm in!
Do mimes like candy!
Hey if they don't say anything then we can't argue with them? How can they be wrong ;)
I will say, we need more mimes in this world, that is the fundamental problem today. We need to Occupy public space, interact with one-another, stop consuming crap, stop working for the 1% to their benefit, entertain ourselves and each other!
Remember Nazi Germany? They exterminated handicapped because they drained society, didn't "produce" anything...
The global elite plan to reduce population is well known. I think we are headed in that direction, at least that is the trend we are on.
US stock index futures pointed to a higher open for Wall Street on Tuesday as European shares edged up following a sharply lower close on Monday. However, investors were still in doubt about the solutions advanced at a summit of European Union leaders last week in order to solve the euro debt crisis. A Treasury bill auction in Spain provided at least a bit of hope that investors were showing some confidence in European debt. The sale produced a yield a full percentage point lower than a month ago, though the rate was still elevated. The Federal Reserve will announce results of its monthly meeting at 2:15 p.m. New York time, but market watchers do not expect any change in the central bank's monetary stance. Retail sales data for November are due to be released at 8:30 a.m. New York time, and economists surveyed by Briefing.com expect growth rates to have declined slightly, advancing for just 0.5 percent ex-auto compared with October's 0.6 percent rise. In an earlier report, small business confidence showed some improvement. The National Federation of Independent survey rose to 92.0, though the organization said the measure showed only a modest improvement. CNBC.com | December 13, 2011 | 08:10 AM EST On the earnings front, electronics merchant Best Buy [ BBY 28.07 -0.04 (-0.14%) ] threatened to undo the morning's optimism, turning in earnings that were well below Wall Street expectations. The electronics retailer reported profit of 47 cents a share, missing its bottom-line expectations by four cents, while revenue was just below estimates. Shares tumbled 9.5 percent premarket. In company news, luxury home builder Toll Brothers [ TOL 20.57 -0.20 (-0.96%) ] could be under some pressure after Citigroup downgraded the company to neutral based primarily on valuation. The stock has risen 18 percent over the past five weeks, though Citi says it is still "positive on the (Toll Brothers) story." Shares were off 2 percent in light premarket trading. Dow component DuPont [ DD 43.91 -1.13 (-2.51%) ] shares, though, rose in premarket trading after the company, at its Investor Day, reaffirmed an optimistic forecast of 7 to 12 percent compound annual growth in both sales and earnings. Shares gained 1.5 percent. In other corporate news, Reuters reported that Deutsche Boerse and NYSE Euronext have offered to sell NYSE's stock derivatives business Liffe to appease European Union officials' concerns that the combination between it and Deutsche Boerse's Eurex would create a monopoly over trading in European-listed derivatives.
Wtf was that about?
What you are asking for is a country like Cuba, Russia, China, North Korea, Zimbabwe etc.
No, something better.
What is better? And give specifics. About 5 main points is a good starting point. Thanks.
zeitgeist movement, look it up. It sums up many more points than 5.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
Just what we need, another cult that believes in the collective.
If that doesn't do it for you (seeing as how the movie is 2.45.00 hours long and you could somehow summarize the movie whose purpose is the decomposition of the origins and platform of our nation being founded on (the cult we all live in) in less than 25 minutes means you did not research or look into the movement (which is reflecting the reformation of the Catholic Church)), than here you go:
1) Reconstruct the philosophical and tangibly enslaving monetary system, based on consumption, inequality. Replace this with a model based on dynamic equilibrium.
2) this is dependent on #1 (depending on what the solution is), including a redistribution of wealth, a reformation and reinvestment in social programs
3) Bind governments to reflecting society needs instead of governing the society to cater to the needs of the rich. This is done easily by taxing the rich, limiting campaign contributions, forcing tv stations to play public advertisements instead of private advertisements, so on and so forth (including changing elections to governing positions to citizen required duties).
4) Force our government to open information to the public to eliminate disinformation. Government transparency allows greater oversight and a true check and balance system.
5) Fund social needs, healthcare, foodstamps,
These are a few ideas, many critiques can and should be made. Where are yours?
Here are my response to all of your 5 points; 1) I prefer a true free market system, where individual rights, private property rights are defended. That includes using the Gold Standard (and Silver too) as the solution. 2) I do not and never will support a socialist agenda which advances stealing and a welfare state. I believe if the 16TH Amendment and every fee, license, permit and business regulation were repealed we would have prosperity far and beyond what most citizens would have ever thought. 3) Man, what you believe in is straight out force and oppression, liberty I believe is not even in your DNA. You would fit well in present day North Korea. You want to take from the rich, limit free speech, apply force to TV stations etc. 4) As so far as open government, as long as most of the voters vote for the two major parties-and I do blame the voters-we will never get it. That's why I vote Libertarian. 5) I donate to charities, churches etc, but I also advocate that those who are receiving donations should be made to work it off. That is the way it was before the welfare state took over. And lastly, when it comes to health care, before politicians got involved, this country had thousands of free clinics, charity hospitals and I remember seeing doctors make house calls. The prices were much much lower.
I am summing up your response in this paragraph. My impression is that you are an anarchist. This is fine, and also a great line of thought, much like the difference between the local governance vs. federalism. Before welfare, medicare, and other vital social programs funded by every tax payer, which our ancestors faught bloody battles for (that is, if you're in the working class), people were used by the factory owners (for no workers' rights or OSHA existed) until bodily dismemberment or disfiguration occurred, thrown out onto the streets and left to starve to death. The Jungle by Upton Sinclair was a great depiction of most common everyday city industrial workers. I do agree with you that government is theoretically and philosophically unnecessary. I will say that the embedded self-interested incorporated society in which we all live in has tainted the governments, has cost the taxpayer billions, trillions of dollars. That is the underlying issue. Your answer is to derail the system, mine is to set it down another track. Two different ideologies at the core, and I am glad to be having this conversation with you.
That being said, this paragraph is a systematic response to your responses.
1) That's nice, but changing to a system based on a tangible, limited object (Why not apples?) comes with its own set of limitations: war over precious metals would double the resource wars in the world (speculatory remark of course(just like your response was)), which is already conflicted due to oil wars. If nothing else, gold (silver, mud, whatever) will become more expensive, making it's usage industrially trifling and expensive (goodbye computers). How does this truly solve anything?
For that matter, what has the faux free market system created for the world? Arguably a world where war and oppression are inherent for things to work. People slave away in factories all day until their jobs are outsourced to robotic assembly lines or cheap labor overseas. It is not economical to provide better working conditions for everybody; better returns can be made going elsewhere. It's more profitable to have repetitive work being done in some shack that costs $10 to make and labor cost of $.15/day than a $50,000,000 state of the art factory where workers are paid $10/hour. Free market system relies on cheap labor with "profit motive incentives" for unskilled laborers to come to work, often to end up dead at the end of their life, leaving their relatives very little aside from the cost of a funeral. Intrinsically, the creation of the free market is to allow "the invisible hand"(a faint resemblance to "God" making fanciful equality appear out of thin air) to guide our lives and disallow people from being equal. Someone make money (power), while others make goods. This system is truly oppressive. This is what you want? Read a People's History of America by Howard Zinn, from cover to cover, and then come back to me and tell me that what I say is oppressive. Wake up, we are being oppressed every day.
"Why don't we go out and enjoy life today by taking a walk?"
"I can't, I've got _ to do." So on and so forth.
2) As stated earlier, the fact that everybody can receive a free checkup to make sure that they aren't dying of cancer is bad? This is wrong? Free health clinics are always going to be needed, but are they able of supporting the whole community? Why should it be a voluntary donation system. If people work for other people to make them more money than what they themselves earn (99% of the population), than why should the top 1% escape an equal income rated taxation. Why should they earn $3,000,000 a year and escape taxation when their wealth was stolen from the workers who build the machines, did all the work, came up with all the ideas, and yet got no true reward. They break the backs of the workers and ride off scotch free; where's the justice in that?
I get almost all of my taxed money back from the government because I, like many other people, do not make enough to support themselves working a full time job and being a full time student. If taxes stopped, the only thing that would change is that welfare, social security, medicare/ medicaid, foodstamps, and our military would go away. This doesn't effect me directly, but chaos could (or couldn't) ensue and either way, more people would starve to death daily in the U.S., life expectancy would drop dramatically, and maybe other things would happen. If you are all for people voluntarily paying (meaning some people pay while others reap the reward), than isn't that more repressive? Wouldn't people with money then presumably gain more power; their money would be needed more, and if withheld, more people would starve and die to their indecision. We'd be sent into a hierarchical system all over again.
It is the fact that the rich have skirted their duties in the past that laws had to be passed with the support of the masses to create a more equal and balanced system. The reason why the system is breaking is due to its susceptibility to money influencing decision making as opposed to the people running the system.
3) ? What I said was to stop governments from having corporate-agenda media shove corporate sponsored advertisements be forced upon children who are very susceptible to psychological conditioning. I don't know where DNA came into play, or how North Korea did. What I am sure of is that you have no idea what I was talking about, and that is worrisome. Why are the wealthy so defensible? Society is but a puzzle to be figured out, how to control the masses, and they are the best at it. When someone calls their bullshit, everybody convinced that they too can all 300,000,000 of them become millionairs comes rushing in their defense.
4) Glad to hear that you vote libertarians and that we agree on something, but corporations (or large bodied organizations with large percentages of wealth a given nation owns) should also be open about their doings because their decisions affect all of us just as much as the government's does. Pollution is a big corporate offense that happens regularly, and last time I checked, high levels of Mercury killed people, not treated cancer (this is to say that corporate health regulations are vital for the health of the population).
5) Welfare started in the 1930's. Modern health clinics began in the 1960's with the summer of love kickstarting a Height/ Ashberry st. clinic in San Francisco. This was due to corporate health coverage being unaffordable for all San Franciscans. Charity is for the privileged whereas welfare is for the impoverished. Are drug problems and all of modern day societies problems going to fly out the window if we defund government? Really? Are heroin addicts going to wake up and suddenly want to work off a simple cleaning of the wound their needle inflicted in their arm that got infected and had to be drained? Or are they not going to have any help and die of a preventable infection. Sounds like you do have a lot of privilege in your life, and you should be very, very appreciative, just like me.
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Just a matter of time once the National Defense AuthorizationAct of 2012 is signed into law this week by those crooked congress and senate.Full treason will be comitted against the American People. And the First Amendment will be fully dismantled. You(plural) will not beable to open your mouth or write anything fore or against those puppetiers that sit in elected office. This will be your last year of freedom of speech,the right to assembly,the right to protest!!!
The 2ND Amendment is in the U S Constitution because as it is stated in the Declaration of Independence, we must defend the right to "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.....so "whenever any form of government becomes destructive".....it is the "Right of the People to alter or to abolish it.
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I am really proud of how you are forming up into peaceful artistic non violent civil disobedience.
"compassion in the form of respectful disagreement"
Egypt is proud of you. Wisconsin is proud of you.
Martin Luther King would be proud of you. Mahatma Gandhi would be proud of you. John Lennon would be proud of you. I bet Archbishop Desmond Tutu is proud of you too.
I bet Mother Theresa would be proud of you too. I bet Lech Wałęsa is proud of you too. Henry David Thoreau is proud of you. SOLON The Lawmaker of Athens would be proud of you too.
"Be the Change you want to see in the World" Gandi "We Shall Overcome." Martin Luther King
You're doing a great job. I'm blogging right behind you. I got your back. See also the work of getmoneyout.com
Hell, I'm in the UK and even with our battles here, I'm so proud of you all at OWS that I can barely think about anything else ! + http://www.getmoneyout.com/ !!
ONE Earth ; ONE Struggle ; ONE 'Occupation' ; ONE LOVE !!!
per ardua ad astra ...~~~*
"ONE Earth ; ONE Struggle ; ONE Occupation ; ONE LOVE"
Love it!!
How are you helping?????????????? You spend so much time on this site speaking out, but how does that help the cause? Please explain.
If nothing else its a welcome break from all the paid trolls on here attempting to convince people that its soooooo futile that they should just give up.
Time to retake the planet! :)
I am not a paid troll, I just think you guys are stupid.
Question......."what is a central bank, who owns ours, and how did ours come into existence?" If you can't answer these basic questions, then you need to go get educated before posting here so that we can actually have an intellectual conversation......
I'm just talking in generalities, with so many trolls there must be a few paid ones on here.
I wrote that after reading something about people being paid to call conservative talk shows in order to make people feel like real people agree with them... :p
I am sure that there must be some, but the main reason for so many trolls is that so many people disagree with you guys.
Last polls I seen in NYC were over 60% agree with the idea, and over 50% agree with the methods.
Granted that is still a lot of people who don't agree or have no opinion, but its not a bad start. I think it will get closer to 100 myself, if for no other reason than income inequality will continue to grow without serious changes.
Keep dreaming. I do not live in New York. I have not met one person who agrees with you guys. I have friends in Oregon, Idaho, Arizona, Washington State, Colorado, Montana, and Texas, and none of them support you or know anyone who does. Anyway, good luck.
What are you doing? Hmmmm! Go back to your Fox News and have a cup cake!
Faux Noise..the mother of all misleading propagonda!
I do not watch fox news, but I do enjoy cupcakes. I watch videos of you idiots on the internet and learn all I need to know about this movement from them. Again, how are you helping by sitting on this site discussing topics? Go stand out in the cold with the rest of the idiots.
I'm forty years old live in Bend Oregon and have a wife of fifteen years, two children, dog and have had a floorcovering and remodeling business of my own and am going to school full time to be a teacher. I have been bankrupt and humiliated due to this economic fiasco. I hope life is treating you well!
Sorry to hear of your problems, we all have them. Some of us just work hard to get through them while others stand in the street and make a useless nuisance of themselves.
Thanx, it's actually quite liberating not having our business. We have been planning to go back to school for years and enjoy a life without construction crap. Last I wrote a paper on this whole subject and a common problem I found is that America is very far behind academically. Our country has a very good system for educating anyone who is willing to dedicate themselves. I feel that we are doing what we can to change things.
I wish you and your family well. I am actually back in school at 42 training for a desk job; disabilities from the military prevent me from performing physical labor which is all I have known. It feels weird to be back in school, but I work hard and get good grades, and it feels great.
Good for you I'm proud of you and your service and yes it does feel weird being back in school. It's fine to disagree with these guys but know the're just trying to bring our country that you fought for back to the people who the system should be geared towards. Keep it up and you will reap the fruits of your labor!
I understand that, but occupying just opens the doors for all the hoodlums to mingle in and make a mockery out of it. Plus their goals are unreasonable. No money, free basic needs for everyone. Most would be content with the free basic needs and not feel compelled to work. That would make it difficult to manufacture all of those basic needs. I feel that those who work harder do deserve more money. As you might have noticed I had to change my ID again because this site censors free speech. I responded to both of your post before realizing they were not showing up. The other one was about your Christian wife and how you were buzzed when you wrote a post. I am in the same boat, Christian wife and I like to post while I am buzzed. Take care.
You as well brotha, seems we have a lot in common!
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Too bad that most American Citizens think that you are complete retards.
That isn't true, if it was then there wouldn't be anyone at the protests.....criminal minds don't like the movement.....other than that it is folks that either can't afford the internet or don't know how to use it and are reliant on mainstream media to tell them what to think. So, in essence only the criminals or the uneducated don't support the movement......hmmmmm.....I'm sure ows protesters really want to impress criminals and uneducated folks such as yourself.......
The uneducated folks will be educated about what is going on, then where will you be? Left out to dry......
Absolutley. The criminal minds are scared.The PTB knows they are about to be exposed. They are going to lose all they stole and hoarded...like they really needed all that stuff in the first place. Hoarding stolen stuff STINKS after awhile!
You are a very presumptuous person. I am neither a criminal nor am I uneducated; I also do not think you are a "complete retard," but I do not agree with most of this movement. Why you ask? Well because the original message has become so muddled and lost among a plethora of unclear and highly unlikely demands. The methods by which OWS chooses to protest by have not been effective in bringing about change. I have traveled the world; I have seen the hurt taking place in many impoverished countries. The United States is the 1 percent compared to those places. This movement needs to have a clear, realistic demand in order for worldly, educated, and highly concerned citizens like me to back it up.
You really think alot of yourself don't you? I'm pretty sure you really have no idea what they are protesting in the first place. If you've traveled the world as you say you have, then you would realize that even the Europeans as well as the South Americans understand the problem better than most Americans do and it's been this way for some time. When my husband and I worked down in South America back in the early 90's drilling for oil we were heavily educated by the highly educated people we worked with. You might consider us one of the 1%, but trust me, most OWS protesters wouldn't. They are talking specifically about the House of Rothschild and the council of 13 that run the world and cause all of the unnecessary death and destruction......the ones that own the central banks of numerous major countries, not all yet, but they are trying to. So, please stop trying to talk down to these people and me. I'm so happy to hear how educated and worldly you are, but you sound like a moron to someone like me who has been educated and traveled the world and has made more money in my past than you probably could ever dream of. I've hobnobbed with the best of them and if you had any common sense you would know that it is impolite. Your pretense is not needed here.
Excuse me, but you have no idea how much money I have made. And I was not the one who stated that a whole group of people were uneducated and criminals simply because they do not agree with this movement. In order for OWS to become successful (right now their support is down to approximately 30 percent) they need to have a clear, concise message. Right now, it is muddled and so far-reaching that you have people who say that we should eradicate capitalism speaking for the movement. This is only one of the many reasons a majority of the public will not support the movement, including me.
The reason their message is so far reaching, if you have time to research, is because the criminal element's power that is now firmly embedded is so far reaching. There is more to this movement than what you see.....this movement has been predicted for a long time now. Truth always rises to the top....it is spiritual law....the internet has now made it possible for all of the deception and lies of the past to be exposed for what they are. The internet is a great equalizer and the criminals are trying to limit and control it so that they wont' be exposed. SOPA is how they plan to do it. The problem is, that illumination always wins, truth always wins....read your bible and you would know this.... This movement is merely serving to get people motivated to really learn and stop watching so much damn Corporate controlled Television that rots their brain and dumbs them down. Who cares who won in Dancing with the Stars.....maybe this is news to you, but not me.... Start learning about what has happened to our country while everyone was asleep or watching Dancing with the Stars.....Get educated and then you will also be one of the protesters. I went through cancer, and when I discovered how currupt the whole healthcare system was, how the vitamin therapy that saved my life has been being attacked by big pharma and the FDA, it started my search into why. Every vitamin therapy clinic I've been to has had to fight these guys, they get harassed. The vitamin therapy save my life, but yet big pharma and the FDA would love to remove vitamins from the face of the earth. Now why is that? People should have access to vitamins and vitamin therapies that can save their lives! It's that simple! They are just a bunch of mobsters.....This has led me to discover how all major government agencies are connected as well as all major banking institutions, oil and big pharma, all leading right up to the top. Where a few have everything set up so that they run the agendas for all these organizations. The problem is, they don't have good intentions for the masses or the world. Eliminating vitamins, eliminating any possible cancer cures, eliminating any free energy devices, war profiteering causing the deaths of millions, false-flag events, deceiving the public, their plans to get us all micro-chipped....on and on. It's very clear in the book of revelations that there would be a war between light and darkness/ truth and deception. I study near death experiences, and I've had one myself as well. In all good conscience, I have to stand with these guys who are exposing the criminals. It's that simple.
Also, I don't guess you have realized how deeply the criminal and unconstitutional element has embedded itself into our society all starting in 1913 with the creation of the Federal Reserve Act which was a completely unconstitutional bill. From there the criminal influence has spread like a cancer in a multitude of directions. You are bothered by the fact that the protesters are bringing so many issues forward that it confuses you. Well, all of these issues were created from ONE underlying source. Our country was sold out and our democracy, or republic if you will, was lost. Today this criminal group hand picks our politicians, influences them, owns the national banks, owns major oil, owns the pharmaceutical companies, controls mainstream media, controls the FDA, EPA, AMA, every major university, the American educational system is influenced by them, it just goes on and on. So, there is a multitude of problems the protesters are decrying, but it doesn't mean there isn't one source......there is.....and if you really knew to what levels of depravity these folks reside in, why would you want them to be in control of anything, especially your childrens educations......
Too bad that most American Citizens think that you are complete retards.
I am not criminal or uneducated. You guys will eventually fade away. Sure is cold outside.
How old are you? Do you have a family? Do you believe in Napolean Dynamite and do you like chicken?
swiss miss = one moron.
fandango = Naf Gonad ...
Seriously?
Please use full sentences, or if that is beyond you, go occupy a port-apotty
"porta-potty" ?!~{;-)
Mr Shadz66 porta-potty is a portable bathroom, and since the occupiers like to occupy our ports (port of oakland, L.A. ....) i thought they could occupy the port of potty as well. The people that you are so proud of, are a big joke to Americans. I hope the the UK is doing better.
Mr.Marx ! 1st & '4Most' ; Thanx for "The Manifesto" !! ;-) & 2nd, I've been to The Glastonbury Festival (1989-1999 : 6 times) and many gigs beside & I'm 'au fait' with a "p-p", I was was only pedantically (& with tongue in cheek) expressing "a" 'hyph-enation query' ! il0l!~{;-)
You must have had a seizure while typing! Hope you get better!
No, but it'd appear you must have had one while reading! 'Hp yr btr yrslf' ;-)
Jesus loves you but I think your an asshole! Seriously though have you tried grape jelly with your granola and bananas. It's actually not that good. But it's ok, maybe with strawberry it would be better. Maybe you're ok but you would be better with your mouth closed!
Thanx for your reasoned and rational contribution ! Merry Xmas.
You as well. Your probably not a bad person. Once I read it a little closer it made more sense. Have a good day!
Mr Shadz66, please get back on your medications.
Mr. Marx ; you old cynic, you !..~~~* ~{;-)
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We can spend millions and millions and millions of dollars continually evicting OWS supporters, arresting peaceful protesting citizens, and attacking the messengers of this movement.
Or . . . we can get it. Listen to the issues, proposals, complaints, and problems voiced by the people occupying Zuccotti Park, the Ports of Oakland and Long Beach, Wall Street, and thousands of cities and bergs across this nation.
If the right-wing 1%'era truly believe what they say, then they will allow the agitated and distressed Americans who don't like what they are seeing and experiencing, to petition their government for redress of their grievances. Period.
We do not want another Kent State massacre.
"If the right-wing 1%'era truly believe what they say, then they will allow the agitated and distressed Americans who don't like what they are seeing and experiencing, to petition their government for redress of their grievances. Period."
Right wing 1%? So, none of your Hollywood Millionaire Darlings are a part of that 1%? They all pay lip service to OWS but I haven't seen any of them actually coming out and supporting you at the different protests you do. And I could say that if these same people "truly believe what they say" then why are they not doing something for "the agitated and distressed Americans" ?
Actually, many have been out at the protests.
Yes, I've seen them they were there long enough for their photo ops.
And how do you know they have not been there longer.... just because they aren't getting more photo ops? Can you prove it?
Prove it? I don't have to prove anything to you. Can YOU prove they have spent more time at the protests.
Just because some limousine liberals have come out in support means nothing.
If it could be proven would it actually make you idiots more popular?
Im going with sinead on this:
"If the right-wing 1%'era truly believe what they say, then they will allow the agitated and distressed Americans who don't like what they are seeing and experiencing, to petition their government for redress of their grievances. Period."
You really dont understand that a lot of the top paid people are not even in wall st. / government / etc. Or that "right-wing" people are "fed up" and tired of government bailouts and handouts. If you poll right and left wing people, 99% of both sides hated the bailouts given to the banks. It wasn't just the "right wing" people who thought that the banks and GM were to big to fall. Also, if you got to what the "right-wing" believe is less government intervention and let the better company survive. And I hate it when people say "left-wing" propaganda and its the "left-wing". I find that most people are more in the center, but one belief makes them think that they are one direction and only that direction on all issues. Instead of being black or white, make a stand and choose your decision based off of your morals, not some stupid
I was liking your post until that part of it. But I do have to point out one little thing, Its not that we need to be listened, but instead engaged in a discussion to where they can empitize with the 99%. Other than that, it looks like were a bunch of cry babies
Or we could just declare that you are terrorist against our government and open fire, I believe that would set things back in operational order faster than anything. You all have the freedom of moving out. If you hate it here so bad go somewhere else. We will not miss you. I am not part of what you consider the 1% and I do not want you to count me as part of your 99%, I just want you to shut up and go away.
“Because they claim to be concerned with the welfare of whole societies, governments arrogate to themselves the right to pass off as mere abstract profit or loss the human unhappiness that their decisions provoke or their negligence permits. It is a duty of an international citizenship to always bring the testimony of people's suffering to the eyes and ears of governments, sufferings for which it's untrue that they are not responsible. The suffering of men must never be a mere silent residue of policy. It grounds an absolute right to stand up and speak to those who hold power.” ― Michel Foucault
OCCUPY MUST TAKE ACTION ON THIS, WHILE WE STILL CAN!!!
"United For Peace and Justice has sent an URGENT CALL saying the Senate and House versions of the bill were reconciled this weekend, with a final version expected either today or tomorrow. Once complete, the House and Senate will be asked to vote on it very quickly. There is no time to waste! Let your Senators and Representatives know that you are opposed to the 2012 Defense Authorization bill because it imperils civil liberties, continues an endless war in Afghanistan and elsewhere, wastes billions of dollars that 99% of Americans need for a more secure life here at home. President Barack Obama human rights disconnect: Required Indefinite Detainment Bill include U.S. Citizens, proclaimed this Human Rights Week "'Obama strips Americans' rights in NDAA bill, proclaims human rights week' http://www.examiner.com/human-rights-in-national/obama-required-americans-no-rights-ndaa-bill-proclaimed-human-rights-week
'Proof Obama will sign NDAA 1031 Citizen Imprisonment Law in a few days' http://saynotocorporateamerica.blogspot.com/2011/12/proof-obama-will-sign-ndaa-1031-citizen.html
ACLU PETITION - Tell Congress: Say NO to Indefinite Detention and Endless Worldwide War https://secure.aclu.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=3895&s_sbsrc=111205_AdvocacyNDAA_fixNDAAredirect
CALL, WRITE, OCCUPY and Stand up for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights of the American people!
Most of the posting's (and I do mean most) I have read on this site shows me that most of the people do not support the Constitution, the Bill of Rights or anything else connected with the Declaration of Independence. I believe most-about 95%-of OWS are straight out hard core socialist thugs, and would not be against slavery if they were holding the whip. The other 5% are just guilt ridden, are followers, are young, naive and have been lied too by their parent(s), teachers or professor(s). And I might add all of them are jealous of someone else's success.
MAYOR BLOOMBERG HAS INFILTRATED OCCUPY.
The following statements are only my opinion. I have almost no facts to back up my conjecture; however, it makes perfect sense.
After the raid on Zuccotti Park, Keith Oberman and many others publicly proclaimed that Bloomberg had just poked the sleeping bear. That his efforts to shut down the Occupy movement had, in fact, re-energized a movement that was getting a little stale around the edges. And these statements seemed very much so. More protestors than ever hit the streets. Public outcry for justice was louder than it had ever been. Mayor Bloomberg had just made a really stupid move.
But wait a minute. Bloomberg is not a stupid man (wealthy, greedy, selfish, yes, but stupid? Not so much). And the battery of advisers paid by our tax dollars and guiding his every move and word, they're certainly not stupid. More likely, they're geniuses. So why such an act of outright public stupidity? He knew, had been told, he could waylay this whole movement (at least inasmuch as its existence in NYC) and create a diversion of sorts.
From the earliest days of Occupy, the mayor's office has had informants on the ground. "Occupiers," who were there, among the sincere protestors, reporting back to his office every plan, every process, every minim of information that might enlighten his strategy.
Many locations other than Zuccotti Park were already being scouted by one of Occupy's working groups. Everyone knew removal from the park was inevitable. And on that fateful morning when word spread of the raid and people organized to march, Mike knew very well where they would head - Duarte Square at Canal Street. Why? Because the owners of that park, Trinity Church, had already been supporting the OWS movement from day one. The occupiers believed that Trinity would welcome the opportunity to offer up a piece of property to support the cause. But Mike knew something else. Mike knew that the owners of this property had been working with his office for the past several years to revitalize and rezone that neighborhood dubbed Hudson Square. He knew of the many legal and logistical implications that would prevent Trinity from actually giving up the property. And he was right.
Now add to this the infiltrators, spies you would never imagine to be anything more than disenfranchised youth helping to fight for the cause, now insisting that they must take this property. Mike's boys and girls (many who likely exist on the religious fringe) would now take this physical occupation to to the next level; giving this battle for a small piece of property that is truly in no way ideal for the movement's purposes, more merit than the movement itself.
Mike's maniacal plan is working like a charm. D17 is a farce of Bloomberg's making and here we go, marching to the beat of his cleverly veiled drum. D17 keeps us ever distracted from the issues that actually matter. How is it that we are to "re-occupy our commons" when (at least in the case of NYC) this property is privately owned. These are not commons. Also, just as a matter of course, this is the most dangerous location I could imagine. Next to a busy highway, no where near a restroom or water access, out of sight of most of the people in NYC (there are no tourists or residents over there, I can assure you). It makes no sense.
Unless you're NYC Mayor Mike Bloomberg. Don't imagine for a second that the mayor's office hasn't used every moment of the free time they've been afforded by distracting the movement in such a way, to continually plan the demise of Occupy.
We should be occupying/boycotting/protesting banks, corporations, government officials and the White House - AND BLOOMBERG'S HOUSE! Instead, we've focused weeks of attention and energy on taking something from one of our strongest allies. Ole Mike sure pulled a fast one on us.
I have marched in every protest I have been able to. I have carried my signs, and shared my voice with the thousands of others in chants for liberty and freedom from injustice, but this is a walk I will not make. It is not in the right spirit or for the right reasons. and even if we 'succeed' in 're-occupying' this property, I believe it would serve almost no purpose whatsoever.
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LETS JUST TURN THE ECONOMY OFF AND TURN IT BACK ON AGAIN! let's turn off this fascist system of corrupt property rights, turn off the Fed, turn off the ports then turn it back on again with a new system of property rights, a 50% SOCIALISM 50%CAPITALISM MIXED ECONOMY. with free education and health care, and a living wage for all volunteers, interns for all members of society. turn off this political farce, turn off fox news CNN, turn off this fascist state, turn off the concentration camps, turn off the psychopathic police, turn off the crucifixion merchants and turn on to cannabis sativa. SMASH THEM WITH GANJA, HIT THEM WITH HERB. Ras Tafari is the True Christ! "they shall flee from before his face"!!!
Masters of War Bob Dylan
“Come you masters of war You that build the big guns You that build the death planes You that build all the bombs You that hide behind walls You that hide behind desks I just want you to know I can see through your masks
You that never done nothin’ But build to destroy You play with my world Like it’s your little toy You put a gun in my hand And you hide from my eyes And you turn and run farther When the fast bullets fly
Like Judas of old You lie and deceive A world war can be won You want me to believe But I see through your eyes And I see through your brain Like I see through the water That runs down my drain
You fasten all the triggers For the others to fire And then you set back and watch When the death count gets higher You hide in your mansion All your people’s blood Flows out their bodies And is buried in the mud
You’ve thrown the worst fear That can ever be hurled Fear to bring children Into the world Above threatening my baby Unborn and unnamed You ain’t worth the blood That runs in your veins
How much do I know? And to talk out of turn You might say that I’m young You might say I’m unlearned But there’s one thing I know Though I’m younger than you That even Jesus would never Forgive what you do
Let me ask you one question Is your money that good? Oh, will it buy you forgiveness? Do you think that it could? I think you will find When your death takes its toll All the money you made Won’t ever buy back your soul
And I hope that you die And your death will come soon I’ll follow your casket On a pale afternoon And I’ll watch while you’re lowered Down to your deathbed And I’ll stand over your grave Till I’m sure that your’re dead”
Masters of War Bob Dylan
Congratulations to each person who is standing up for a change in this world and being part of Times persons of the year!! But, like many folks on here have said--our message is irrelevant and doesnt matter. And as we know those with the Fox news mindset are always right and fair in their observations. And the Times magazine cover proves. Congratulations again my irrelevant friends!!
Bosphorus university Starbucks occupiers in Istanbul/Turkey
http://youtu.be/4Qvdd37uZng
Keep it up lets Occupy the nation and the world. We the 99% are holding those responsible for the atrocities in our governments accountable to US THE PEOPLE. There will be no mercy and there will be no quarter. We will kill them with kindness and our voices will drown out their corporate spending. We are the 99%, you should have expected us.
Words alone CANNOT articulate how excited I am for this upcoming event. I will be traveling through two states and three hours to get to NYC, but I will be there and ready to REoccupy. SHOW ME WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE!
good move we need another camp. the movement just isnt as strong without one. of course i still know the cops new role is to try & eliminate dissent, so lets see how long we can hold on to the camp
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Hey everyone! If you come across a troll or someone on here who gives you heck about your beliefs, ask them this one question...."what is a central bank, who owns ours, and how did ours come into existence?" If they can't answer this basic question, then they need to go get educated before they begin posting on here again.....
Occupy art, let's start http://www.flickr.com/photos/tazandamy/6496249593/in/photostream/lightbox/
looking forward to the 3-month-aversary tomorrow of the movement that has awakened our country -- lets turn out, y'all -- nothing is more important than showing up for change -- don't let thete be more Bloomberg soldiers than americans-for-change!!!! -- no turning back now - This Is What Democracy Looks Like!!!!
OWS FILM FESTIVAL - Sat., DEC. 17th 7-9PM @56 WALKER STREET One block South Canal St. Between Church & Broadway
Join the Occupy Revolution! For an exciting film festival that celebrates 3 months of the Occupation Movement and a global revolution. See short films from local and international occupation movement filmmakers and media activists. Witness the inspiration and defiance of a movement that refuses to be crushed by police brutality and State repression. You may not see OWS in the corporate media, But you will see it represented on this Saturday.
Take any train to Canal Street. Please submit any works, links, suggestions, or volunteer!!! (Co-sponsered by INN World Report) FOR MORE INFO Contact: occupyrevolution@yahoo.com
OWS FILM FESTIVAL - Sat., DEC. 17th
7-9PM @ 56 WALKER STREET One block South Canal St. Between Church & Broadway
Join the Occupy Revolution! For an exciting film festival that celebrates 3 months of the Occupation Movement and a global revolution. See short films from local and international occupation movement filmmakers and media activists. Witness the inspiration and defiance of a movement that refuses to be crushed by police brutality and State repression. You may not see OWS in the corporate media, But you will see it represented on this Saturday.
Take any train to Canal Street. Please submit any works, links, suggestions, or volunteer!!! (Co-sponsered by INN World Report) FOR MORE INFO Contact: occupyrevolution@yahoo.com
Despite Tutu's blessing, Trinity Church will never grant permission for an occupation on their Duarte property. Please read Tutu's follow-up comments on the Trinity website. It is completely irresponsible for OWS to ask protesters to illegally converge on a heavily police protected area. This is a disaster waiting to happen. Trinity has been a strong ally of OWS but all of a sudden they are being portrayed as the villain. They have made their position very clear regarding Duarte: they do not give permission for any sort of occupation. Why is OWS pushing this to the nth degree? Please call off this autrocity!!! There are bound to be multiple arrests, violence, anger, frustration. The committee who decided to do this....willl you be the first to attempt to occupy the Trinity property?....will you knock down the fence and get arrested first? This is totally wrong and irresponsible. OWS will cause dozens if not hundreds of protesters to get arrested and possibly hurt. Shame on you. Occupations had their moment but the moment is past. Time to evolve to a higher level, which does not involve violence, breaking mulitple laws, and sacrifices of multiple arrests.
Occupy Wall Street needs to shut its stupid mouth. How dare they count every person in the ninety-nine percent they talk about as in with them. They do not have a right to speak for me. I like the rich. Many of them started with nothing or almost nothing. Steve Jobs and countless others became VERY rich after being very poor. They did not complain. They had ideas and went with them. The top one percent creates jobs. Our companies, stores, firms and on and on that employ millions were not started by poor people. They were started by the wealthy. Now, OWS states that the rich are our enemy. Great, go against those who create so much. Occupy Wall Street has got to be the most stupid bunch of idiots to ever band together. They have no real clue as to what they are doing. In Los Angeles, they accomplished nothing and left a mess that cost the city a lot of money. In Seattle, OWS blocked docks and tried to prevent people from going to work. Yet, they claim they want people to go to work. The entire Occupy movement is a joke. They talk for the entire ninety-nine percent, but of those ninety-nine percent of the people, about ninety percent are working. I live in Beverly Hills and I'm doing fine. I don't need Occupy Wall Street to tell me what to do.
George Vreeland Hill
YES!
How-to Film & Document Police Misconduct at Occupy Wall St and elsewhere . filmed in time for D17. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kro3z79nxI
A tutorial for activists on how to document police brutality and police behavior in a safe and efficient manner. The importance of holding cameras steady for video and livestream, working as a team, and properly labelling evidentiary footage.
This mission should include the demands for change of all the federal States criminal laws because in the eyes of french lawyers they are oppressive,regressive and inhumane. Our laws are still based on ancient Anglo-Saxon principles which foresee extreme,harsh punishments for minor transgressions. However, it is my opinion,shared by others, since day one that unless this movement becomes really political it will not achieve any substantial changes within the established dictatorship in our " great" USA. Concurrently, we should seriously think about organizing our own political party and start a membership drive immediately so we can effectively call this movement our own and fight for it to achieve social and economic justice.
Remember, that we have 535 skunks in the U.S. Congress. For the past 200 years successive members of Congress have acted on their own outside of the expressed will of the people and are not going to be willing to listen to our demands now! Knowing this we have to be forceful and decisive in our demands while we build our own movement. Once we take care of Congress, the source of all our evil, they control State-side Commerce, Intestate Commerce,International Commerce,the Economy and have caused all the problems we're in today,then we can take care of the States legislators and State laws. The movement has to have leaders.
Global Economics 101 The crux of the problem is simple, the policy makers manipulate the economy with the premise that the rich create the jobs and thus channeling the wealth of the economy to Wall Street! This lopsided ideology couldn’t be more corrupt, which is evident by the instability of the world economy teetering on the edge of collapse and the increased worldwide social unrest brought on by mass poverty! The economy is stalled because the policy makers have done everything in their play book to keep the markets (cost of living) elevated, when in actuality they need to come back down to reality! The longer the markets are held at an artificially high level, the weaker the base becomes risking total collapse and further global anarchy (pressure seeks it’s own level)! To correct this mess you need to eliminate investor tax incentives, loopholes, bailouts, subsidies, tax breaks, tax caps, caps on fines & penalties, etc. The Fed needs to raise interest rates back up to 6% or 7% to motivate intelligent investors to move their money out of high risk markets and back into local banks where companies with sound legitimate business plans can borrow it, thus creating local jobs and a stable economy! Anyone who says the economy is recovering because the markets (inflation) are going back up is totally delusional! Stupidity is rampant in Washington and politicians are totally clueless! Increasing the wealth of a company without increasing demand for its products only leads to increasing the price of its products and executive salaries to show investors increased value, further shrinking demand and slowing growth! In 1995 the DOW (DJIA) was at 4000, it peaked in 2007 at 14000, more than doubling the cost of living. With every rally comes a recession, the bigger the rally, the bigger the recession, simply because overvalued markets increase inflation and reduce demand! The markets must be allowed to return to center, painful or not! To fix Social Security, you need to approach it with logic as well! There is currently a cap on the amount an individual is required to pay, even though there is no cap on the amount they are allowed to earn. If an individual earns 100 times what the average person earns, they should pay 100 times more! It is this type ignorance and or corruption that has created a lopsided unstable economy! Ultimately our over-valued government has an over-valued Wall Street competing with an under-valued Main Street for gas, groceries and housing, with only one possible outcome! SEC stands for “Sucks Executive C_” (Regularly)! FED stands for “Failed Economic Disaster”! Congress stands for “Corrupt, Clueless and Fowl Smelling Stagnation”! Obviously I have little respect for our government, mainly because with power comes abuse, corruption and more damned holidays at $75 million each, not to mention lost productivity and excessive benefits, which also has to be paid for! I personally, would like to see Congress replaced with an online program, which would allow anyone to create or amend laws. Any citizen could chime in and list pros & cons, every bill or amendment would have to meet certain criteria (logic) before advancing to be voted on! This would eliminate the possibility for lopsided laws, shave hundreds of billions off the annual budget and create a fare and balanced economy!
John Kelsch Fairbanks, Alaska
Global Economics 101 The crux of the problem is simple, the policy makers manipulate the economy with the premise that the rich create the jobs and thus channeling the wealth of the economy to Wall Street! This lopsided ideology couldn’t be more corrupt, which is evident by the instability of the world economy teetering on the edge of collapse and the increased worldwide social unrest brought on by mass poverty! The economy is stalled because the policy makers have done everything in their play book to keep the markets (cost of living) elevated, when in actuality they need to come back down to reality! The longer the markets are held at an artificially high level, the weaker the base becomes risking total collapse and further global anarchy (pressure seeks it’s own level)! To correct this mess you need to eliminate investor tax incentives, loopholes, bailouts, subsidies, tax breaks, tax caps, caps on fines & penalties, etc. The Fed needs to raise interest rates back up to 6% or 7% to motivate intelligent investors to move their money out of high risk markets and back into local banks where companies with sound legitimate business plans can borrow it, thus creating local jobs and a stable economy! Anyone who says the economy is recovering because the markets (inflation) are going back up is totally delusional! Stupidity is rampant in Washington and politicians are totally clueless! Increasing the wealth of a company without increasing demand for its products only leads to increasing the price of its products and executive salaries to show investors increased value, further shrinking demand and slowing growth! In 1995 the DOW (DJIA) was at 4000, it peaked in 2007 at 14000, more than doubling the cost of living. With every rally comes a recession, the bigger the rally, the bigger the recession, simply because overvalued markets increase inflation and reduce demand! The markets must be allowed to return to center, painful or not! To fix Social Security, you need to approach it with logic as well! There is currently a cap on the amount an individual is required to pay, even though there is no cap on the amount they are allowed to earn. If an individual earns 100 times what the average person earns, they should pay 100 times more! It is this type ignorance and or corruption that has created a lopsided unstable economy! Ultimately our over-valued government has an over-valued Wall Street competing with an under-valued Main Street for gas, groceries and housing, with only one possible outcome! SEC stands for “Sucks Executive C_” (Regularly)! FED stands for “Failed Economic Disaster”! Congress stands for “Corrupt, Clueless and Fowl Smelling Stagnation”! Obviously I have little respect for our government, mainly because with power comes abuse, corruption and more damned holidays at $75 million each, not to mention lost productivity and excessive benefits, which also has to be paid for! I personally, would like to see Congress replaced with an online program, which would allow anyone to create or amend laws. Any citizen could chime in and list pros & cons, every bill or amendment would have to meet certain criteria (logic) before advancing to be voted on! This would eliminate the possibility for lopsided laws, shave hundreds of billions off the annual budget and create a fare and balanced economy!
John Kelsch Fairbanks, Alaska
I noticed on the website that there is an event scheduled for Saturday, December 17, 2011, down on Canal Street and Sixth Avenue by Varick Street. I would like very much to attend this event. My birthday is on that same day and I will turn 40 years old. Nothing would make me happier on that day than to know that I am surrounded by people who care about each other and the society they live in. For the past three years, I have been preaching how this country needs a revolution to wake it up from its slumber. I am glad to see that the revolution is finally here.
I had no idea this was going on. Thanks to OWS and The ACLU for brining this matter to the attention of the people. This is extremely serious. We are talking about the systematic dismantling of the Constitution of The United States of America.
In addition to recognizing the anniversary of the signing of our nation's Bill of Rights, the Occupy Movement should also consider commemorating the event that made it possible - a protest nearly 20 years earlier to the day. This Friday is the 238th ANNIVERSARY OF THE BOSTON TEA PARTY PROTEST on December 16, 1773. It was a protest against the British central government and the monopolistic East India Company that controlled all the tea imported into the colonies. It was the culmination of a resistance movement throughout British America against the Tea Act, which had been passed by the British Parliament in 1773. After government officials in Boston refused to return three shiploads of taxed tea to Britain, a group of colonists boarded the ships and destroyed the tea by throwing it into Boston Harbor. Colonists objected to the Tea Act because they believed that it violated their right to be taxed only by their own elected representatives. The movement was not so much about taxes, per se, but about the people's lack of a voice in the political process. "NO taxation without REPRESENTATION" was the battle cry. The incident remains an iconic event of American history, and other political protests often refer to it.
Our legislators in Washington ought to consider the lessons of history as they vote on bills to extend the federal payroll tax breaks and ponder the larger issue of whether to support an economy based on luxury for a few or prosperity for all.
NOTE: The old South Meeting House webpage states, "Since the 1773 mass protest meetings that led to the Boston Tea Party, Old South Meeting House has served as a gathering place for discussion and celebration and a haven for free speech."
Media coverage of a commemoration by Occupy would increase awareness of the movement's link to America's earliest acts of civil disobedience in service of the public good. Maybe someone in touch with OCCUPY BOSTON could remind them of tomorrow's significance?
Occupy Christmas by blacklisting big business. Support small business. Check out the link and like us on Facebook.
http://alturl.com/8is33
Dear Occupy Wall Street: Here is a link to read famed Civil Rights lawyer Norman Siegel’s letter to Deutche Bank's and NYPD’s lawyers re: 60 Wall Street and prohibition of signs. http://suzannahbtroy.blogspot.com/2011/12/blog-post.html
YAWN. next.
Time magazine just named 'The Protester' as Person of the Year. They refer to the change and continuing change in history that is taking place by protestors.
hey, who´s the person who makes the flyers? the logo is always too small to read.
Contextualicemos los movimientos regionales en un sólo movimiento internacional; nos encontramos en la génesis de una tercera conflagración mundial. Es importante e imprescindible darle el carácter de clase, es decir unir dialécticamente la teoría y la práctica. Al parecer se van a unir dos hechos singulares el cambio climático y el movimiento social mundial.
Promovamos en algún lugar del Planeta la Primera Internacional de los indignados revolucionarios del 99 por ciento, pues es fundamental cimentar teóricamente a este gran movimiento. África se incendia, Europa se derrumba y en toda América crece el descontento. Nada hay que perder y sí mucho por ganar México, Puebla, 14 de diciembre de 2011 E económico pascacioxolotl@yahoo.com.mx
Contextualicemos los movimientos regionales en un sólo movimiento internacional; nos encontramos en la génesis de una tercera conflagración mundial. Es importante e imprescindible darle el carácter de clase, es decir unir dialécticamente la teoría y la práctica. Al parecer se van a unir dos hechos singulares el cambio climático y el movimiento social mundial.
Promovamos en algún lugar del Planeta la Primera Internacional de los indignados revolucionarios del 99 por ciento, pues es fundamental cimentar teóricamente a este gran movimiento. África se incendia, Europa se derrumba y en toda América crece el descontento. Nada hay que perder y sí mucho por ganar México, Puebla, 14 de diciembre de 2011 E económico pascacioxolotl@yahoo.com.mx
Let bank funded and corporate-run carbon trading STOCK markets, ruled by politicians, tax the air we breathe to save the planet from unstoppable warming as in death for all? Is this a Harry Potter movie?
Can't make it downtown til later in the afternoon on Sat. Is there a schedule of events somewhere for this so I could determine whether to go?
: give trump hell tomorrow at his public appearance here in the info as follows Mr. Trump will be signing books at the following time and location: Where: Trump Tower Atrium Address: 725 Fifth Avenue at 56th Street City: New York City When: Thursday, December 15, 2011 Time: 12:00PM - 2:00PM
OWS, I'm talking to you_GET IT TO THREE_including a 28th Amendment_Stop Corporatism" Amendment
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-green/can-occupy-overturn-citiz_b_1148032.html?ref=politics Mark Green Host, 'Both Sides Now"
Can Occupy Overturn Citizens United? "Dear 99%ers..." (excerpts:)
"Article Five lays out how to pass a Constitutional Amendment that stops unlimited corporate (Koch) and individual (Bloomberg) money from privatizing democracy.
I'M SURE THAT THE BRENNAN CENTER AT NYU WOULD HELP DRAFT THE PRECISE LANGUAGE.
OWS, I'm talking to you.
As your general assemblies and policy committees seek consensus on specific goals, please consider including a "Stop Corporatism" Amendment on your very short list. True, it's easy to compile a list of 20 issues/goals/demands... but hard to GET IT TO THREE so the public can get behind a few big things. Lenin said "bread and land." Reagan said "cut taxes, end communism." A movement that came up with "we are the 99%" can now evolve from concept to content by "occupying," say, foreclosures, student debt... AND CERTAINLY DEMOCRACY.
While there are wonderful groups already engaged in this effort -- from Public Citizen to Free Speech for People -- only your energy, guts and brand can create voters-not-corporations groups in every state either to enact the 28th or at least mobilize opinion around the issue for future elections. Other than Labor, only you can get the numbers of people on the streets as we saw in Wisconsin and Ohio in their collective bargaining fights.
If OWS is against a rigged economy and government, how can you leave the Constitution to a Tea Party with no understanding of how the Revolution and Constitution sought to replace a states-based Articles of Confederation with a federal government? two conclusions. First, with democracy in the balance, OWS could mobilize popular opinion into either a 28th Amendment or a political movement.
God bless all you guyz who are doing something about the rape of America! But I would like to know when Occupy Washington DC will occur!
This video is dedicated to the peaceful people of Occupy and it's against police brutality: http://youtu.be/IYB3mzoTlm0
NAME AND SHAME THE 1% name the big landowners and question how they got the land. it's time to take back our land. THIS LAND IS OUR LAND. expose the fascist bush family as starting WW2 by financing hitlers german economic miracle and building his war machine. it is the same fascists opening FEMA CONCENTRATION CAMPS blatantly under our noses. wake up and start fighting FOR OUR LIVES!!!
Freedom of expression and the right to assemble are NOT sacred human freedoms, they are American Rights. Paid for with the blood of our founders.
NO REFORMATION NO PROMISES NO RELIGION NO LEADERSHIP We need ~ SELF-EMANCIPATION OF OUR CLASS Through ~ Political class struggle, In a peaceful and democratic way, By applying our power of knowledge and number Via ballot in elections, And establishing a ~
stateless moneyless wageless classless
WORLD SOCIALIST SYSTEM
BASED ON
UNIVERSAL OWNERSHIP DEMOCRATIC CONTROL PRODUCTION FOR USE FREE ACCESS FOR ALL ACCORDING TO SELF-DEFINED NEEDS
That is the end of unemployment, poverty, famine, environmental destruction, war and terrorism; and beginning of peace, freedom and participatory democracy: The only practical alternative awaits recognition. Socialism needs you – And you need Socialism. Recognize Socialism – Vote only for Socialism.
Canal street has some great buys. I bought a Rolex Mariner, a Burberry scarf and Coach wallet from a Chinese guy for $75.00. Check it out.
Court becomes my battle field ------ journal for this morning Our family went to Riverside together this morning for the ticket I was arrested with on Sep 8, 2011, to defend the charges of “trespassing” in my own home. The owner’s name is still on me as I have signed nothing release the title yet. It is unbelievable such thing is happening in America. 8-9 am our family with children wants to stay together in court room. The “Police officer” Medrano at department 21 badge # 1874 was mad, and order our family that “only one stay, I give you 15 second to get out!” we did not move. “By what law?” my wife asked, he run to the wall and tear off a paper very roughly like fighting in a battle to try to intimidated us, leaving residual tape on the wall. It was writing on a board something “no eating, drinking, and no children under the age of 18……” It may have “court rules” against the Constitution. I asked him: “do you like learn some Constitution?” “I do not care!” he screamed facing about 40 people in court and some clerks. My son Joe questioned him, “do you have oath of office?” he did not answer, but said “I have said 15 second, time is ticking” we sat and did not move. The hero image of Rosa Parks came to my mind at the very moment, and all people in the court room and by the entrance watching. It seems that no one is breathing at the very moment, the air was frozen. Mr. Medrano started to run to my side, very close to me and about to touch me, ordering us, “You get out from this building, get out of my court!” I was shocked and I remember that Sam and I was a companion with our friend Helen to make a complaint against a Lady Deputy in the Riverside Police Department. Helen complained the lady deputy said the same word, “get out of my court.” She then slammed Helen’s back. I am astonished that I can hear the exactly same word again in my trial! I stood up and said, “You have said that this is your court, right?” The sheriff said nothing. I speak to all people in and out of the door of the court room, “my name is Ken Meng, and everybody heard that he said this is his court. Not a court for the people. Sir, I need you name and your badge #.” “You go out then I will give to you.” I point him to about 50 people waiting outside of the door and that he had said “this is his court”. Mr. Medrano suddenly turned around and run back to the court. I chased him into the court and order him, “you give me your name and badge#!” he was afraid and then gave it to me. 9-11 am we left the court to file “motion back home for Christmas”. Sandra the supervisor of Appellate Division said she knows nothing about oath of office. I suggest she learn it for better service. We went to Riverside County Administration Center looking for their oath of office, but no one has it. I told them what the oath of office is and how important it is to our country. Last, we went to Riverside Sherriff’s Department. At the basement we met sheriff investigator Mr. Javier Rodriguez. He went in to his supervisor for long time, then bring a copy of the Sherriff-Coroner, Stanley Sniff’s oath of office, and said that they do not record the oath of office for the deputy we are going to pull out include Mr. Medrano. He asks Joe, “that is very smart, where you get the idea from?” I then said, “it is not smart, every citizen should know that.” Now I am sure why the country is corrupted. The government of Riverside is against the laws God inspired to America. It can be seen that the other places might be the same. All above has been audio recorded, and will be posted online soon.
12:00 midnight I have just found a “Criminal Case Report” from Riverside superior Court Pay Ticket / Case Fine Case RIM1116577 - Defendants Seq Defendant Next Court Date Status Agency / DR Number Arrest Date Count 1 Charge Violation Date 1 MENG, KEN JUN RSEA EV112530039 09/10/2011 PC 602(M) 09/10/2011 Case RIM1116577 - MENG, KEN JUN - Status Custody Citation Filing Type Complaint Filing Date 12/02/2011 Ordered Bail $2,500.00 Posted Bail $0.00 D.A. Defense
Next Action: Arraignment 12/13/2011 AT 7:30 AM DEPT. 21 Deputy Report #: RSEA EV112530039 Warrant Type Status Issued Affidavit BEN REQUESTED 12/13/2011 N/A Probation Type Granted Expiration N/A N/A N/A Sentence Convicted Date County Jail CTS N/A N/A N/A State Prison Max Sentence
N/A N/A
Fine and Penalty Restitution Fine Restitution to Victim 0 N/A Case RIM1116577 - MENG, KEN JUN - Charges Arrest Charges Count Charge Severity Description Violation Date Plea Status 1 PC 603 M Forcible entry; property damage 09/10/2011
Filed Charges Count Charge Severity Description Violation Date Plea Status 1 PC 602(M) M Trespassing on real property w/out consent 09/10/2011 ACTIVE Case RIM1116577 - MENG, KEN JUN - Probation Probation Has Not Been Granted On This Case For This Defendant. I know how much they hate me. Now they are ready to take me away.
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Today revolution means replacement of the existing capitalist relations of production (wage-labour / capital relations) with the new socialist relations of production (free associated producers' egalitarian relations).
NO REFORMATION NO PROMISES NO RELIGION NO LEADERSHIP We need ~ SELF-EMANCIPATION OF OUR CLASS Through ~ Political class struggle, In a peaceful and democratic way, By applying our power of knowledge and number Via ballot in elections, And establishing a ~
stateless moneyless wageless classless
WORLD SOCIALIST SYSTEM
BASED ON
UNIVERSAL OWNERSHIP DEMOCRATIC CONTROL PRODUCTION FOR USE FREE ACCESS FOR ALL ACCORDING TO SELF-DEFINED NEEDS
That is the end of unemployment, poverty, famine, environmental destruction, war and terrorism; and beginning of peace, freedom and participatory democracy: The only practical alternative awaits recognition. Socialism needs you – And you need Socialism. Recognize Socialism – Vote only for Socialism.
Very impressive how this movement has touched so many people to speak out either for or against it. There has been some really great discussion happening, minus the pointless ad-hominem attacks, of course, but I am amazed by the discourse - the spark to start this intense fire of debate. Great job, occupiers! That really should be the number one goal anyway and according to those standards has been hugely successful. Keep the conversation going. Zuccotti and beyond.
I just KNEW that if I kept visiting this site on a daily basis, the organizers of OWS would make their intentions known. All this talk about unionization, eh? You poor misguided sheep out there in the streets, believing that this is all a "Peoples' Movement", with no one leading the cause? In truth, there is indeed a leader- and quite a cowardly one at that, directing traffic from the shadows. You think Wall Street bankers are evil? Just say hello to your national union delegates, children. They're the ones who are sending you into the streets, using you to drum up business for themselves. Good luck with that.
This nation is a Union. Any group of people with a common goal is a union. A marriage is a union.
All this over a word?
Unionization, not a bad concept. A hundred Occupies united. That's a union.
you really think your going to control the government and change the nation? LOL. you need a lot more support than a thousands of people. There are millions of people in the U.S. do the math. Weed out your violent types and then you might get more respect.
May I ask what is courageous and bold about having a tiny music festival and craft fair? To the average American you guys just seem ridiculous or irrelevant. From a Gallup poll: "The poll finds that 56% of Americans surveyed are neither supporters nor opponents and 59% say they don’t know enough to have an opinion about the movement’s goals." You sure are creating awareness and awakening a revolutionary spirit. But with 59% of the population not caring about you and 31% not supporting you, you're really going to have to excite that last 10%.
You(#OWS organizers) need to OCCUPY Congress!! The senate and the congress are commiting treason against the American People with the National Defense Authriation Act of 2012 at this very moment. If We The People/#OWS do not do this(OCCUPY CONGRESS) then the First Amendment is in full jepordy of being hijacked!
Yes MiMi in fact there are 2 thriving occupy camps in DC and have been there since early October. Let your fingers do the googling and go learn about them.
Ive been there since Oct 6th...but today we made to The Hill.
Occupy Wall Street – Is the name important?
By Shinazy
Do the Peace, Feminist, Civil Rights, and Environmental movements have better advertising agencies that write better ad copy? The names of these movements describe their agenda, their specific purpose. Even their slogans reinforce what they’re about. The peace movement is an anti-war movement, aka, Peace. As boomers, we remember the common slogans during the Vietnam War years; they were equally descriptive: “Hell no, we won’t go [to war]“; “Make love, not war”; “Draft beer, not boys.” The feminist movement is about women’s rights: voting privileges and gender equality. Even the banner phrase “Women’s Liberation” is clearly about ‘liberating women.’ If we look at each word, the meaning of the civil rights movement is clear – each of us, all of us, are entitled to our rights as declared in civil law. Rather than a slogan, the 1960’s civil rights movement expressed itself with a song, ‘We shall overcome” [socio-economic segregation, racial discrimination, gender inequality.] Environmental is defined as “of or relating to the external conditions or surrounding.” The environmental movement is just that, champions of our surroundings. For those of you who know me, you know why my favorite slogan is “Green is the new black.” If we follow the same associate pattern, as illustrated above, is the Occupy movement about . . . homesteading?
http://bobbblogg.blogspot.com/2011/11/occupy-wall-street-is-name-important.html
The 99% have to change the capitalism! This sistem is our problem. Be strong and try to get more activists to OWS..try to define a main focus..make massive general strikes..stops country. We are watching you!
The Occupy Wall St. Movement has no leverage to force change and until OWS gets some leverage nothing will change.
If OWS blocks traffic and shuts down business as usual, OWS will have leverage to force change.
The forgotten must block traffic to remind the forgetful of the needs of the forgotten.
Don't follow the leaders. Block traffic with your friends.
Guidelines For Non-Violent Civil Disobedient Traffic Blocking. http://occupywallst.org/forum/guidelines-for-non-violent-civil-disobedient-traff/
A song for the banksters on Wall Street... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FM3KR9dEOk
Top 25 Most Powerful/Influential Groups in Washington
1 National Rifle Association of America Gun Ownership 2 AARP Senior Citizens 3 National Federation of Independent Business Small and Independent Businesses 4 American Israel Public Affairs Committee Pro-Israel Policy 5 American Association for Justice Lawyers 6 AFL-CIO Union Leadership 7 Chamber of Commerce of the United States of America Big Business 8 National Beer Wholesalers Association Alcohol 9 National Association of Realtors Real Estate 10 National Association of Manufacturers Industrial Business 11 National Association of Home Builders of the United States Home Construction 12 American Medical Association Doctors 13 American Hospital Association Hospitals 14 National Education Association of the United States Education 15 American Farm Bureau Federation Agriculture 16 Motion Picture Association of America Movies 17 National Association of Broadcasters TV and Radio Broadcasters 18 National Right to Life Committee Pro-Life Policy 19 Health Insurance Association of America Health Insurance 20 National Restaurant Association Restaurant 21 National Governors' Association Governors 22 Recording Industry Association of America Musicians 23 American Bankers Association Banking and Lending 24 Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers of America Pharmaceuticals 25 International Brotherhood of Teamsters Blue-Collar Labor
Let's all occupy a retirement home!
I am sincerely be hoping that microphones and loudspeakers will be allowed so that the voices are heard loud and clear and far and wide. Not allowing voice amplification is another tactic used by the city to further suppress and restrain our Free Speech. The silencing of righteous voices has been the downfall of many movements. The message MUST be heard! "Polls show that 64 % of Americans say “Big Government” is the biggest threat to the country, while just 26 % say it’s “Big Business” and 8 percent say it’s “big labor.” Occupy Wall Street understands and must continue to make clear that “Big Business”(Wall Street) as exemplified by Banks and the obscenely rich and profitable corporations, are the ones responsible for corrupting our government and governments world wide. That while profits are not "evil" or to be denied, it is the pursuit of profits at any costs to our planet, to the lives of people, that are not acceptable. The government (or the police acting on their behalf) attempting to crush or otherwise silence civilians or groups of citizens who stand up to oppose, or speak up against those forces is not acceptable. The power now lies with the MONEY. Period. Getting the Money out of our Government means not having Government be smaller, but getting Big Business Money out of Government so that they can no longer dictate the policies that OUR Government puts out! Policies that are written for the benefit of the Corporations and Not for the benefit of Society or Humanity or the Earth. Only then will our Government be by the People, for the People! Right now it's Education for Profits for the Corporations-not the People! Health Care for Profits for the Corporations-not the People! Wage-deficient Jobs for Profits for the Corporations-not the People! Energy for Profits for the Corporations-not the People-not the Earth! Government for Profits for the Corporations-not the People! Wall Street is the symbol of this because it is they that have established the system of profits above all else. Uncontrolled Growth in spite of the Planet or it's People. Only the Greedy, Blind, in-compassionate rich will fail to see that what benefits Society and Humanity benefits them. If they destroy Humanity and the Planet they will destroy themselves! Good Governments have been instituted to Protect the people from the inate, un-bridled Greed and unrestrained avariciousness of those who seek Power over all things on Earth. Let the message be Clear! HAVE YOUR VOICES HEARD!
@OccupyWallStreet @GlobalRevolution @blogdiva @theother99 #occupyeverywhere
I wish I could be there with all of you but guess what? I have to work!!! I hope this is acknowledged by all the naysayers who carelessley spout off "get a job", etc. I work 60 and sometimes more hours a week. I have been to Z. Park twice already and plan on coming down soon. Hopefully there will be something going on during the week!
Please continue your journey. You will make a big difference at the next election and many more after that. America wasn't built in a day and it won't be rebuilt again unless you continue. Thanks
To quench the thirst of my personal curiosity, are current Occupy protesters seeking jobs or any form of employment? If not, why? What is the expectation from the government then, regarding unemployment, if they are not actively looking for employment?
Who is funding this site? How are the funds acquired?
http://vimeo.com/33279277
How about this. The 1% goes to work and gives each and everyone of you their money. Not because you deserve it but because you want it. After all everyone should have free access right?
the 1% doesn't work... :-) they just think they own everything
No..they work :) Do you think they just go hang out at a building everyday? Because i can promise that is not it. :)
I think you're thinking of the 17% that think they are part of the 1%
No...I'm talking about the 1%
Assembling is a good thing, but it is a little weak given the momentum this 99% movement has while Congress is twisting itself into knots to continue huge tax breaks for multimillionaires and big corporations. Perhaps its time to take the "revolution" tag more seriously--tear gas and rubber bullets can be used as effectively against congresspersons and bank presidents as they can against protesters. As it stands, the Occupy movement is seen as only a nuisance.
What does it say about us as a people when in this society that has been created, only allows certain individuals to get ahead by kissing ass, or trampling over others to reach a top level? Thats not why we are here--to just be part of a machine that creates misery. We are here to relax in our spirits and find the truest essence of who we are as shared individuals in a true connection with each other. Time passes each day and the global consciesness that has reawakened in man is telling us to be one connected spirit, and not a part of some hollow machine that is void in all levels of decency and humanity. As so many signs have said, you cannot evict an idea, or a thought for a better world. True human beings that have had to stifle and supress the true nature of themselves for this false machine cannot digest it anymore and our spirits are throwing up all the false and untruths that have poisoned mans spirits for far too long! A new understanding and awareness is taking place, and we are now moving into what and why we we're put here for. And that is to be each of our true selves, and not the lie we have been living. We once were lost but are becoming found!
Does anyone know what city thids is in????? Duh!!!!
Have you read your rules. They represent fascism in action. Have you read some of the comments your readers have left. They are insane. Your cause is to disrupt whatever you can for the sake of disruption and glorifying your aimless cause. You are hurting working people and small businesses but you don't care because you have no agenda and no conscience. You have my best wishes for the continued failure of your aimless casue.
You are incredibly ignorant of this movement, and your comments are biased.... "Your cause is to disrupt whatever you can for the sake of disruption and glorifying your aimless cause." "You are hurting working people and small businesses but you don't care because you have no agenda and no conscience."
Can't we find a better place to occupy. Why can't we find property owned by G&S, citibank, or Bank of America. It feels really inhumane to violate a space owned by people who have shown so much humanity to me and so many fringe occupiers. It doesn't feel right. I won't be there, it is disrespect to the ladies at Charlotte's Place who work so hard to help the occupiers.
Cuz if you occupy private property it's considered an illegal act (trespassing) unless you are given permission to be there. Which would give those companies a right to forcefully evict you if you refused to leave. Noble sentiment though.
Duarte Square is private property :)
This puts an organization that has helped OWS for the past 3 months in a bad position for no obvious reason. I don't get the obsession with Duarte Square.
I also don't think all of OWS, especially homeless occupiers have actually been informed that trinity owns it. it is almost like we are being led under false pretenses to take action. It bothers me.
I totally agree, it is really unfair and completely superfluous to the real issues of OWS to take over the trinity property. sigh.
Occupying is the dumbest idea that I have ever heard. You dumbasses who think differently need to ask mommy and daddy to beat you more so you can eventually reach maturity.
[Removed]
I bet the police didn't put laptops and electronics in the dumpsters.
Please get the geography right. The poster has 6th Ave. where Varick should be.
Varick and 6th Ave are more or less parallel. Varick is to the west, so the map is geographically correct if you turn it the right way. Perhaps the artist was looking in a mirror, or perhaps you were.
Small point. But if you turn it as you suggest then Canal St. runs along the north end of the park - which it does not.
The OWS Movement is now national and global.
The issues will not go away on their own.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt9d2iwSBMc
please publish a list of names and addresses of big landowners in your state: they are the ENEMY.
The main source of much of this country's inequality in wealth, income, and power is our system of taxes, that is all federal, state and local taxes considered as a whole. Consider:
A minimum wage full time worker aged 20 A widow living on Social Security aged 75
Both have an annual income of about $14,500
They are among the 50% that the Republicans are forever claiming "pay no taxes." But the actual true statement is that they "pay no federal income taxes."
Both pay over $5000 in other taxes, like Social Security, sales, gas and real estate taxes - over 30% of their meager incomes, and no .. they do not qualify for the Earned Income Tax Credit or Food Stamps. They have to live on under $10,000 after taxes. On the other hand Warren Buffett pays only 11% of his 8 billion dollar investment gain .. yes, including his share of indirect corporate taxes .. leaving him $7,200,000,000 in investment gains in a recent year.
The other taxes people like the minimum wage worker and Social Security benficiary pay are conveniently ignored by the top few percent and their pets in Washington when they claim millionaires can not pay a penny more in taxes as long as so many "pay nothing."
See the details and the solution: http://fairsharetaxes.org
Yep!
Take a look at the website and tell me what you think. I've made alot of changes to my proposal. based on the input of scores of interested folks.
http://fairsharetaxes.org
PS Are you really swiss? Me too.
I'll take a look at it when I get the chance to. No.... I'm not Swiss. It's just a nickname.
Good nickname.
WAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIT!!!!!!!!! I know we picked up a little momentum, but WE NEED TO SAVE ROUND TWO FOR THE SPRING. This is only the beginning of winter and its taken its toll on the movement prolly even moreso than the crackdown on occupations. If we try to do this now and we only get a couple hundred people out there, people will believe its over. I know the struggle for justie can't be seasonal, but we should save "round two" for when we can re-occupy zuccotti when it is warm. I suggest we set the date for round two in APRIL! Lets harness our power through the winter and come back in full force! But whatever, whenever it happens, I'm with you my comrades, in cold an warm
Buy arctic tested cloths and tents. Did the Continental Army give up when winter came? No! They occupied Valley Forge.
Occupiers, please read: "An Eco-Humynist Manifesto for the 21st Century." We can't stand down from fighting the good fight!
http://bethechange2012.wordpress.com/2011/12/13/an-eco-humynist-manifesto-for-the-21st-century/
While the constitution grants the right to free speech, peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances I do not believe that covers occupation.
When I look up the word occupation I find "the act or process of taking possession of a place or area" That is certainly not covered under the first amendment.
Even if it did, the First Amendment cannot trump local laws restricting park-use hours. The idea of an occupation is stretching the Constitution, or redefining it, to argue that First Amendment protections should include tents, round-the-clock protests and campouts.
In the end I believe the 99% are getting tired of occupy which is in fact only 0.125% at most. As an example, many of the workers, independent contractors and truckers were pissed yesterday at the west coast ports because the protesters caused them money. They have bills to pay and mouths to feed.
When the Constitution is silent on something it is up to the Congress or Court to clarify any ambiguity. I personally don't think that money is the equivalent of free speech or that corporations are functionally people, but that's what the Court thinks, so right now that's law.
There are no time limits in the Constitution on the right to assemble. A time limit may be implied or inferred somewhere, but it dosn't exactly jump out at me, though it might to some Judge.
Basically the Court takes the position that because money is necessary to publish advocacy or broadcast, money is an essential component of free speech. It seems to me that exactly the same argument could be applied to tents and sleeping bags, or for that matter open kitchens and port a potties. If a group is going to publicly assemble for any length of time, especially in winter, it is going to need all of those thing, which would make them a precondition of the right to assemble as without them the right to assemble is severely circumscribed.
In fact there are many, many instances where it has been ruled that the First Amendment trumps municipal ordinances. Unlike states and the federal government, municipalities are not sovereign and must function under the laws of the sovereinties in which they function.
Most polls that I have read show popular support for OWS at somewhere between 25 and 30%, a very substantial minority which any Republican Presidential candidate would love to have right now.
It is true that OWS is a very tiny movement in which, generously, fewer than 200 thousand activists are involved. This is a major reason why we do not raise any demands. Given the fact that we have so far engaged only a very tiny proportion of the population to raise demands would be presumptuous and undemocratic.
Conceptually, the reason that OWS uses the occupation metaphor is because, as we see it, a handful of giant corporations have "occupied" virtually every aspect of our common lives, including the very government which still purports to be democratic. Our occupations are really re-occupations, taking back the commons for the people from the giant corporations.
An objective evaluation of the port closures would indicate that the public was divided about them, which is always the case in matters of considerable social conflict.
My point is that many people try to abuse or co-opt the first amendment to justify their actions. There are local laws about camping in the park. In fact I have seen pictures of tents under a no camping sign.
You cannot be thrown in jail for saying the government sucks. You can be thrown in jail for breaking a law while you are saying the government sucks. There are laws that state where sidewalks exist pedestrians cannot walk in the street. The fact that I have a sign that reads “End the Wars” while walking in that street does not make my action legal.
I have no problem with assembly and protest. I believe it is good for the country and the planet.
The exercise of free speech is supposed to inconvenience people. That's iits whole point. I don't know what you mean by abuse of the first amendment. Certainly something that could physically endanger people might be construed as an abuse (shouting fire in a crowded building) but if we are to remain a free society then we have to be extremely wary of any restrictionon freedom of speech. I always get really pissed off, for example, when I see people write f**k and as them if nobody ever showed them how to spell fuck.
There are many instances where federal laws trump local laws and while a number of free speech rights have not yet come to the Supreme Court, many have been decided in federal district courts and almost always in favor of the protection of free speech. There is nothing in the First amendement about appropriate time limits or times for assembly. And if tents and sleeping bags are a necessary precondition to enable people to assemble for extended lengths of time then it would seem to me that it is logical that they should be protected under the right to assemble, but it is true that that particular issue is yet to be decided by the Court, so legally it is an open question.
In most instances, excepting when they were clearly engaged in civil disobedience and expected to be arrested OWS has always obeyed local traffic laws. I have been on dozens of OWS marches where we stayed on the side walk and stopped at red lights.
Seems to me that you do have a problem with OWS. Are you for it or not? If you are not then why are you wasting your time here? I don't wast my time on websites whose premises I disagree with. We have a very, very big project here and you can't make an omlette without breaking eggs.
OK, I'll try to calrify my meaning.
The constitution does not give me the right to shine a 10,000 watt light at my neighbor’s house because I believe that shining the light on them will save the world and therfore I should be free to express that idea.
Free speech is not intended to allow you to "inconvenience people" it is meant to protect you from retribution for speaking out against the government or a representative of the government. People were executed for speaking out against the king. The founders wanted to prevent this. Inconveniencing your neighbor until they succumb to your point of view in is not the intention.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
The real issue here is whether or not you support OWS. If you support OWS but think that in certain instances it exceeded the bounds of the First Amendment then we have something to talk about. In some instances OWS has exceeded First Amendment rights, it knows it has and it acknowledges that it has. Whether it has or has not in the instances you raise has yet to be determined by the Court though I think in most instances OWS efforts to reclaim the commons would not be considered by most OWSers as First Amendment violations. In every instance OWS has deferred to the Court on this question. That is, if an issue has been decided by the Court OWS goes along with it unless it very consciously chooses to engage in civil disobedience.
Once upon a time it was illegal for people of color to sit at lunch counters and the defenders of the status quo made arguments not dissimilar to your own when they attempted to do so.
If, on the other hand, you really do not in any way support OWS, then we are on opposite sides of literal barricades and have little to talk about. Get out you can of pepper spray and spray away, or if you are too genteel to do it yourself, go hire some cops to do it for you. We're ready to face it and they'll be more of us next time and still more the time after that. At least that has been the pattern so far and as long as the crises that OWS is addressing continue that pattern too is unlikely to change. Of course you and your ilk could decide that the only solution is more freedom of action for the police, and legislation to that effect seems to be moving along the pipe line quickly but this is not just an American crisis, it is a world crisis and our movement, crushed anywhere, will spring to life elsewhere. We were, we are, we shall be! Solidarity forever!
I support some of the issues that some of the folks that associate with OWS. I don't think I agree with any group 100%.
The fundamental difference is that I don't believe that the occupation concept or intimidation is good for the cause. People are not oppressed to the extent that Gandi's people or black in the 1960s were.
Gotta go.
Right now OWS is so tiny that it's possible to take a dilatory position like your own. While there are real barricades up they are hardly everywhere and entirely absent in many cities and whole regions, but if OWS becomes as large as it hopes, and I think it may because I do not think the crises it is addressing are likely to go away, well then, eventually you will no longer be able to take such a caviler attitude (sometimes I support this, sometimes I support that) and the words from the old labor song will rear up and ask you: Which Side Are You On? and you will no longer able to be so flippant and irresponsible. Yes irresponsible. You say OWS is irresponsible. I say it is irresponsible not to pick a side and defend it. Of course that does not mean agreeing with everything it does, any more than every foot soldier in World War II agreed with every command decision, but they knew what side they were on and they fought for it.
If you don't think people are as oppressed as black people were in the 1960s, take a look at the militarized and jack booted police forces and their behavior which is every bit as bad as that of Bull Connor's minnions and their adversaries are not just frivolous college kids (a misnomer in any event), but the very same black people who were so intimidated from the days that Reconstruction ended to this very moment. One of the many projects that OWS has been involved with is stop stop and frisk. I haven't been to jail but I talked to a young white activist who was and he told me that he was the only white person on the whole cell block. If that isn't oppression aimed at a specific group I don't know what is.
How many people have to be unemployed, how many people have to be homeless, how many people have to have their homes repossessed, how many fronts does the US military have to be engaged in, how much legislation eroding civil liberties has to pass, how many books have to be burned, exactly how wide does the income gap between the super rich and everyone else have to become before you recognized exactly how oppressed we've become? You're smart. I'm sure you know Paster Niemoller's famous quote about the Nazi's: "First they came for the Communists..." Niemouler's point was that he too did not recognize oppression when it was there right in front of him. The same, by the way is true of race relations in the US. Martin Luther King can be a hero today because he is dead, not because the issues he addressed have been resolved in any meaningful way.
I am not taking sides because I don't believe in "sides" There are more than two points of view on many issues so there is no side for me to take. I have a view on each issue that may agree partially or totally with your view. On some issues we might agree completely and on others we might not. I believe that taking sides is a primitive behavior.
Just because I do not "occupy" does not mean I do not care. Take a look one of the projects I am involved with in my community. http://americasgrowarow.org/
As a scout leader I also teach kids to be virtuous and contribute to the food pantry and collect bicycles, eyeglasses, and cell phones for the poor.
There were a lot of rich German Jews and liberals who also didn't believe in "sides" in 1932. Many of them continued to be skeptical of the notion of "sides" all the way into the gas chamber. Of course we are not there yet, but Weimar Germany was nowhere near "there" yet in 1928 either. Even the most detached reporters are concerned about the militarization of the police forces. There are bills before Congress right now which would severely curtail civil liberties and allow the the permanent incarceration of American citizens without charges. The British government has already classified occupiers as terrorists. Whether or not you believe in sides, sides believe in you. They are an objective reality.
You are still not undestanding my point.
I have said more than once that I agree with taking a stance on an issue. The amendment in the senate veriosn of the NDAA is a great example of an issue that I strongly oppose. I have been posting on that issue in many forums. That does not mean I have to take a "side" that agrees with everything OWS. I believe I explained the difference about three times. I find I agree with about 50% of the issues I see raised.
By the way, Obama has said he will veto the NDAA unless that amandnent is taken out.
With friends like you OWS doesn't need enemies, but then, by your own admission, you are not a friend are you? And neither is Obama or the Democratic Party or the corporate state over which he presides.
To tell you the truth your old world mentality of "you are a friend or an enemy", "we must take sides", does not sit well with me.
You comparison of the issues facing thie "movement" to the suffering of Jews during the holicost, slaves, and blacks in the years of segregation is really an insult to those who suffered those ills.
My guess is you are one perverted voice in a group of mostly good people.
I don't know what kind of bubble you are living in, but as you put it, the suffering of the "years of segregation" are far from over. De jure segregation may be a thing of the past, but all the statistical evidence indicates that defacto segregation is not only far from over, but worse than ever. Blacks are more than 50% of the prison population, and in some instances (certain New York City precincts for example) they are nearly 100%. Stop and frisk policies are specifically directed at minorities. The kind of brutality visited on OWS peaceful demonstrators is commonplace for African-Americans. The civil rights movement was successful in elevating the black middle class and enabling them to leave the ghetto, the net result of which was to deprive the black community of its organic leadership and create a permanent under class. And it's been no picnic for the black middle class either, which, despite their elevated economic and social status is still subjected to the same stop and frisk humilation of their poorer brethern. Then of course there is the issue of black unemployment. In my town the unemployment level of black youth is near 70%. Just how bad does it have to get before we are allowed to utter the word depression? One big difference between now and the period between the two Reconstructions is that now the crisis in the black community is everywhere rather than just being centered in the Deep South.
And the white working class is not immune either. Wages have remained stagnent for decades, as consequence, nearly every economist agrees, of a direct legislative attack on the right of workers to organize. Technically trying to organize a union is protected activity for which a discharge is supposed to be illegal. Yet more than 10,000 workers every year are fired for trying to start a union. These are proven cases which the corporations loose, but they are willing to pay the fines. No telling how many unproved cases there are.
Homeowners are being forclosed upon everyday in unprecidented numbers, which I suppose is fine with you so long as it's not your house.
Unemployment is probably twice the official statistic as people whose unemployment compensation has run out but who still haven't found work are no longer considered unemployed but are characterized as "discouraged workers."
Our environment is going to hell in a hand basket and virtually all environmental scientists agree that we are either very near or perhaps past the point of no return where, more or less rapidly catastrophic events will make the Earth uninhabitable for human beings and yet the people who are in a position to do something about it chose, just last week, to basically abandon the Kyoto accords, about the only shred of hope we had of saving the planet. And you seriously want to argue that there are no "sides" in this? I'd say that there very much are sides. There is the side that owns and controls the economy and the political system and there is the rest of us. And among the rest of us there those who are trying to do something about it, however inadqequately and perhaps sometimes wrong headedly, there are those who choose to do nothing and there are those who are asleep to the crises we are in.
Even if we accept the premise that we are not yet in or near a crisis similar to that of Weimar Germany or the American South after Reconstruction are their no indications to you that we are in a real crisis and does it really look to you that we will somehow, magically, just move cyclically out of that crisis without any human agency? And do you really think that the people running things are really doing all that hot a job of getting us out of these crises, or any job at all for that matter?
Again your comparison is an insult to those he experienced real suffering.
on this basis you could not assemble or protest because all land is owned "by a corporation" and there is no where to go....except your own home perhaps
That is not true you can assemble on private land if the owner permits you too Remember Woodstock was held on Sam Yasgur's farm.
Also not all land is owned by a corporation. You can assemble on public land. People assemble on the Washington Mall all the time as well as in local, state, and national parks.
yes as I said you can assemble on private property. However as governments are infact corporations then you will always be trespassing
Actually you said "on this basis you could not assemble or protest"
Only if you own your own land....so that Disenfranchises billions of people. ie many people could not assemble or protest because they dont own land!
But that is not the case. People can and do protest just about every day.
the point is that because all land is owned by a corporation these protests and assemblies can be considered illegal and police can take action.
There is a difference between a protest and an occupation. The right to protest does not extend to an occupation. There are protests every day.
You also do not have a right to intefere with other peoples freedom.
perhaps but protests can also be supressed stopped on the basis of trespassing laws, so its very easy to have a police state.
Protests are not stopped when they are held in accordance with the law. There were thousands at protests this summer in parks all over the country.
On the other hand while some would call standing on the railroad tracks a protest it is illegal and an infringement on the rights of others so it should be stopped.
no Im not denying that there are protests, but who is to say that peaceful protests aren't already being stopped citing trespassing as a basis
your missing the point. the point is that your "allowed" to protest but you dont have the right because anyone can pull out the trespassing law,
thats the point, trespassing is breaking the law as a result you cannot "peacefully protest" in public spaces. This is wrong.
So you are denying the fact that people protest every day legally. People exercise this right every day. There are a few dozen protests today. Across the nation in front of Lowes over a commercial, outside a NY High School, several in CA over marijuana dispensaries, several in TX concerning DSIDs, several in FL over a holiday issue.
You are living in your imagined world where you are oppressed by "the man". It just isn't true and reality and the newspapers prove you wrong. People exercise their right every day.
There you go again. You CAN "peacefully protest" in public spaces. It happens almost every day.
Zucotti Park, under law, is supposed to remain open to the public 24-hours a day.
Zucotti Park is open to the public 24-hours a day however there is no camping, sleeping, or use of generators allowed in Zucotti Park.
Sept. 17, 2011will be a more influential day than 9-11.
The end of fear for America.
Great conversation, it's right up there with sniffy rich people having car problems in the ghetto.
Go COWS! (Cash Out Wall St.)
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At a philosophical level it is very difficult to make sense of collective thinking of large groups. What "they" want? Where are "they" going? One thing is very clear for whoever is familiar with the cat and the bag concept. The darn animal would just simply go back in the bag. This OWS may take many forms evolve in many strategies but in social Darwinism terms is about survival. In today's society, survival of the land is not an option so the battle lines would form for control of money. Presently money is simply a algorithm for controlling production and resources. That is where the focus should be. In simple terms, jobs is about money, mortgages are about money, students loans and education are about money, wars are about money. Those who control the algorithm control existence itself. Is them or us.
No, it's just us. "They" are us too. They just don't know it, yet. We are our own worst enemy. The reason real substantive change is so difficult is, to be completely frank, that persistence is so difficult to maintain on a large scale. We are drawn to conflict and it makes cooperation over the long haul a lot more work than we often realize. We lose focus and so we never make it to the finish line. Corruption creeps back in and we end up back in the decadence that always leads us into this kind of mess. To pull out of the rut, we will have to consciously accept the responsibility for our own evolution.
Deep down and in plain language is all about property rights. By definition a man taxed 100% is a slave. I am not too sure what do you mean about the finishing line or if indeed there is one. A balance is a better analogy. Just like in nature, after a long drought you will have floods. Of course the establishment does not have their hearts and minds into fairness. The solution may be, (as often history books tells us) in a Nixon maneuver. For clarification, Nixon was complaining that some of his aids did not have their hearts and minds in helping him in his time of grief. Nixon replied, "grab them by their nuts and their hearts and minds would surely follow." Of course I am talking metaphorically.
I have to disagree with you concerning the property rights argument. Deep down, it's all about corruption. We have allowed our politicians to slowly build the system into a funnel to siphon the assets of our nation away, and now we have to take the government back from them and see to it that it is reformed in a way that insures our representatives will actually represent us instead of representing whoever gives them the most money.
Property rights is an anti-taxation argument but it's not a rational one. Property rights are just another part of the social contract. They can evolve to fit the needs of the situation. These arguments that we need a pure capitalist (or socialist) system are not viable. The proper way to handle property is to find the balance between capitalism and socialism that best promotes the general welfare. Right now that means a progressive graduated income tax and a reasonable estate tax that insures it is no longer possible for any one person to gain so much wealth that they and their descendants become effectively nobility. No one should be able to wield the kind of power that comes with immense wealth who has not earned that wealth and thereby gained some understanding of the responsibilities that come with it.
It's not rocket science. It's simple and straightforward fairness and the only rational way to preserve everyone's access to the American dream. Once we remove the corrupt politicians, then those policies will easy to institute.
Brother!!!!! What does corruption accomplishes other than redistribution of wealth (property)? This fairness to whom, you speak of? The social contract is to pay for services legitimate to government function. There are ONLY two areas: protection of the INDIVIDUAL against violence internal with the police and external with the army and the second is protection against fraud through contractual law. The rest is about the well worn heritage trail to serfdom.
Excellent descriptive
WITHDRAW. I make another call out to everyone worldwide. Take out your money now. I am not saying to make a TOTAL "run" on the bank, just leave the minimum of what you need in there to keep yourself functional. (pay bills ,etc) The bare minimum. Take the rest out. Take what you can afford and buy silver (not paper silver) Lets do it, I got some to do it. We need to expose the FED for what it is. USA - UK - Europe, lets crash it now. It needs to happen. It is one action you can take, and one thing you have control of. Let make them print more money. They are already taking it from us anyways. In order to expose the FED we have to force their hand. The time has come to cash out. The system is slowly crashing, lets force the next move. On another note if you don't want to go to this extreme, at least put your monies in a credit union. But make a dent. When I took my money out managers were trying to convince me not to. I keep cash, and silver. It feels liberating not to have those fake digits in the computer. #WITHDRAW
This post just goes to prove how ignorant these people are and how unrealistic their demands are. Hey, let's crash the world's economic system and see what happens. If they can't guess what would happen their ignorance is proven!!
In every instance of reality, you must get out of denial, hit complete bottom before coming up. This country is in denial still. We are "addicted" to credit and spending and blaming. I am simply trying to convey that point. Hit the bankers where it hurts. Vote with your wallet, and choose wisely. I can speak for this as I have done this. I am not trying to collapse the "system" , simply trying to expose it for what it is. If everyone took out their "monies" the system would hit bottom sooner. Or perhaps they would print more money and instill more fear in the rest of us. Either way we need to retake control. We need to go through a depression before a recovery. They prevented it in 1933, and delayed it until now. It it imminent.
I did exactly what you suggest back in April. I took ALL my money out of my savings, liquidated my CD's and I bought gold ( not paper gold). I also bought silver. I deposit what I need in my checking account to pay bills once a week. I totally agree with you that when I did that, I felt this huge relief, a spiritual freedom, it was truly bizarre how free I felt. It was amazing. I really wish that the OWS could have their own credit union. If they could do that, we would be in occupy status forever, sort of like living in a sustainable community that reaches across the 4 corners of the USA.
Wait, if OWS had their own credit union wouldn't that just be recreating what you're trying to fight just with a different name? I don't understand your point.
No, it's not the same. Credit unions are owned solely by their members.... the people who put money into the accounts, and they don't exist for profit. How is that the same as banks.... which do exist for profit and which are not owned by those who open accounts there?
And people who own (account holders) credit unions DON'T get rich off of opening accounts there.
Thanks for that confirmation on my original thought. I'm not a banker ( my brother is though..ugggh) but my only concern is the relationships that CU's have to the Fed Reserve. Can you enlighten me? It just seems to me that the 99 percent should be able to create and sustain their own bank. What about mergers and acquisitions...can another larger bank gobble up a credit union without the approval of the stockholders/board?
I thought the same thing BUT, since the OWSers and the members would be the stockholders and board members, wouldn't that differentiate them from other banks? It would also send a message to the country that we CAN operate a financial institution with ethics.
I don't know. It seem to me that you would just be putting different people in charge and creating a NEW 1%. Not getting rid of the gap.
Perhaps.
This is off topic but I am watching Cspan and just observed a vote to have a postage stamp created for breast cancer research. Am I missing something here? We need a bunch of legislators to decide if the US postal service can create a stamp? This is what my tax dollars pay for? Maybe I should just be happy that they were able to agree on something.
You are wrong. Read my post above.
Gold has no inherent value. It has been assigned value. I would invest in Rare Earth Minerals, that market is gonna skyrocket. But just an observation.
Thanks for the tip. I did a bit of research and looks promising.
The fiat paper money we use has also been assigned "value" The value is you , me and the work we do. As hyper inflation takes its grip on humanity we will not be able to afford the basics. We are being forced into slavery for the corporations and banks. Those who have risen to the top are in control. We are no longer free, but under control. It was engineered this way. Time and time again we sell out and end up in this boat. The cycle will repeat.
Money is merely a rationing device. In the absence of money another rationing device would spring up, there's no way out of the system. All we can do is make the most of it and attempt to fix what flaws we can.
I'm interested to see if you will concede ground or if you'll pick one thing out of this to argue against.
"The so called Arab spring "is a misnomer. I'm afraid the people in those countries are just handing themselves over to another bunch of fascists, a religious variety instead. When these thugs start cutting off hands and raping women and killing gays, maybe it won't seem so liberating anymore.
The Arab revolutionaries have, in fact, specifically asked the junta to step down and they reject the junta sponsored elections as profoundly undemocratic.
Are you even paying attention to what is happening in Egypt now? Islamist won a majority of the vote, which means big trouble ahead for women and religious minorities. Gays didn't have any rights to begin with, but will fare even worse now. Copts are being killed. Is that what you want to model your movement on? You might as well celebrate the anniversary of the Beer Hall Putsch.
To abandon Zucotti in the first place, call it a new strategy, then announce your triumphant return to a different park shows a lack of direction similar to your lack of understanding of the complexity of international events. At least this time you'll be closer to the bars of Soho and the West Village. Listening to yourselves talk about how great you are while drinking is something you can handle and lord knows your mommies will supply the beer money.
Islamists at a moment provide a focus and a organizational infrastructure. The big trouble concept is the western corporate media bogy man spin. The young generation is well educated. They will not tolerate simply changing masters.
What we in the West are calling the Muslim Brotherhood have been out in large numbers defending the Coptic community. That one part of what you imply connecting them with anti-Copt hatreds is inaccurate.
Meanwhile, this new O 2.0 is explicitly a 24-hour "all day" performance event.
The snow day in October brought us 30 cases of hypothermia. Simply, if one of them had also been one of our 4 diabetics, we'd have had a corpse.
Getting pushed out of Zuccotti was a good thing. read up on what the troops suffered during the Revolutionary War if you think our Zuccotti Occupiers were going to come out of it medically whole.
This is not a challenge to health or good spirits. It is a 24-hour display of commitment. Justice and Reconciliation are our goals - not simple minded victory.
If I be proved wrong on this and our tent-dwellers are aiming to do January and February outside with no fires and no fueled heat... could somebody just shoot me? And shoot our ER doc and our pediatrician, too. Did the Occupiers learn nothing?
I think getting pushed out of ZP was a bad thing. Voluntarily suspending would have displayed compassion for the occupiers and the people whose job it was to deal with them. OWS would have come out smelling like a rose and the whole world would would have been duly impressed at the intelligence and maturity. Occupiers who leave the land voluntarily imply the power to return at will. Occupiers that get forced out will not be tolerated if they try to re-occupy, and may even become the occupied.
But that's in the past, can't cry over spilled milk.
Is the NYCGA at this event prepared to endorse the National General Assembly?
There is so little support for a national GA as currently proposed by the bogus 99% Declaration in the NYC GA that it is unlikely that it will ever even get to the point of even being a point of discussion, much less passed.
I've been to half a dozen other GAs and while a couple of them are considering discussing the notion of a national GA in no instance that I am aware of does the proposal in its present form have any chance of passage, which I think is all to the good given how profoundly antidemocratic and antithetical to OWS values that the proposal is in its present form.
I am not opposed to a national GA in principle, it is just that the current proposal is so flawed and so fundamentally antidemocratic that it does not deserve serious consideration.
this aint Egypt
This passed a GA vote? I am a supporter in NYC. I believe that an occupation of this park will ultimately and inevitably be evicted, and probably fairly quickly at that. We need to go beyond setting up tents In public parks. I will be there in support, but the outcome is already written in stone.
It is a 24 hour art, music and fellowship event as clearly stated, no tents needed. Come and participate!
The call for the re-occupation makes no mention of tents one way or the other. It doesn't say that they are needed or not needed. But unless I too am reading something into this that I shouldn't, it does seem to me that this is about a good deal more than a music festival, and that the music is merely the opening gambit in what is intended to be a serious re-occupation.
it may be that for some people, we shall see if they appear with tents this is a free country, we all support occupation :) God bless those able to endure the elements
I agree, Yea it seems as though some of these folks have a camping fetish. The more energy they waste on this stuff the easier it will be to KILL this whole thing. Talk about playing right into the hands of the PTB.
What the hell is a GA Vote? GA's do not Vote. Consensed is the word.
Do you mean consensus, or perhaps consented? Excuse the semantics. I meant to ask if this passed consensus of the GA.
exactly.well said nth...
Well, no, because consensed is not a word. Therefore, the statement was neither written nor said well.
All I am saying is that the outcome of setting up tents in city run parks is inevitable, regardless of the symbolic battle for the taking of space. If the movement is to be sustained, it must evolve in to something larger. The occupying of foreclosed homes by families in need is one wonderful idea that should continue on a much grander scale.
I too hate neologisms, but that is the least of our worries. More important are the weaknesses of the decision making processes out of which these neologisms proceed. On the other hand in experimenting with new decision making processes the movement is addressing a genuine problem of undemocratic practice embedded in most formal parliamentary methods. But that too is at least a secondary consideration if not tertiary.
Permanently occupying public space is essential for a number of reasons and because of that will probably re-emerge. Most obviously it was a place where the curious could go any hour of the day or night to find out about the movement. It was the defining characteristic of the movement. Without it to large sectors of the general public the movement appears dead, dying or at least considerably weakened from what it was previous to the evictions.
The need to take back the commons is effectively symbolized by the occupations. Leaving aside their temporary character and the constant police treat, they are models of the kind of society we want to build.
For someone that reports having an association with Occupy Wall St., a movement built on increasing dialogue and diversity of ideas, your 'tone' seems a bit off.
Its clear that you have a specific view about what Occupy should do or say to be 'sustained'. I respect that. But, this is a leaderless movement. Being leaderless, the power is left to the people to decide what is in the best fate of its survival. Occupying a foreclose home one day may be less of a direct action than preventing ships from loading their goods to export for profit. If you read up on social movement tactics, it is most important to have a diversity of actions against the status quo, upredictable in nature, and attempt at disrupting an existing economic system from a variety of angles. This means that the decision to demonstrate by occupying manhattan public spaces in an unpredictable fashion is actually in line with ACADEMIC analysis of previous social movements.
My point is, we all have differing opinions. This is a forum built to express them...not to try and make 'nth' or myself feel like we have less understanding at what will be most successful for the direction of this movement, simply because it is different opinion.
But I agree with you, occupying homes should continue to be a important direct action of OccupyWallSt
Peace
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get some occupy 2.0. Keep rolling. My heros. Keep protesting; keep the faith. let freedom ring.
OWS the whole world is laughing at us because we kiss Israels butt, try to hide behind God and Jesus and we got guns. Our once great Nation took a dump when we traded logic and reason in for blind faith. It has robbed people of their senses and led us to support murder in our name and that is not what I stand for. Your hardship will pay off or we all get sucked down the whole of self destruction the ways we been going. It doesn't have to be that way and its not gonna be that way because we deserve to live.
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Divide and conquer. Age old trick and the American keep falling for it. Its deja vu all over again for America. All roads lead to Rome, freaking Feudalism, totalitarianism. America is suffering from the God syndrome science and religion both have lost their sanity. We are not God's little play pretty or lab rats for science. Wake the hell up America quit complying with every freaking thing. We got some parasites in our country that is sucking the life out of us. Tell Obama we are not Israels bitch, the trouble makers of the world.
This is such fucking bullshit. You don't have a right to take a public place hostage under your ludicrous reasoning.
The American people have been affected with the God syndrome and its hurting us all. They cannot or refuse to understand, that no matter what we do, believe or say does not affect the divine plan. It was written and set on auto pilot till the next smart individual came along and pushed to button to move on to the next program.Obviously God and money is a man made program that was leading humanity down the wrong path. Religion and science don't have all the answers to satisfy mans curiosity. If humanity don't get it right this time we will destroy ourselves when mother nature strikes back at us because we ignored her in a frenzy to be more God like and robbing nature of its resources quicker then she can reproduce it. It wouldn't be the first time man drove himself into extinction because of his ignorance.
SLOGANS FOR POSTERS
● “The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point, however, is to change it.” – Marx ● No reforms; change the social system! ● Capitalism means legal plunder based on wages-slavery; end capitalism! ● If capitalism exists, so exist exploitation, plunder, war, terrorism and pollution; end capitalism! ● Stop production for profit, start production for use to save environment and our species from the risk of universal death! ● Wages-slavery or starvation death – these are not alternatives, but a two-pronged terrorism! ● End wages-slavery to end starvation death! ● End employment to end unemployment! ● End employment with universal ownership! ● Throw away all election manifestos; just win Socialism! ● Abundance for all – that is Socialism. Principle: From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs. ● Socialism needs you – you need Socialism; recognize Socialism – vote only for Socialism! ● Do not elect leaders, nor boycott elections, elect MPs for Socialism only! ● Peaceably if we May - Forcibly if we Must! ● Our word is our weapon. ● Inscribe on the banner: "the annulment of all property and territorial rights; all that is on and in the Earth becomes the common heritage of the whole humanity".
● Establish universal ownership world-over by organizing the working class worldwide! ● Emancipation of the working class must be the work of the working class itself. ● A few people making decisions that affect everyone else is not what revolution looks like; it's what capitalism looks like. ● The master’s tools won’t dismantle the master’s house. And they sure won’t build a better house. ● Reject parties based on leader/follower relation; join us to develop the independent leaderless democratic organization of the working class! ● Socialists are not secular, but anti-religious, because religion and Socialism exclude each other. ● Indiscriminate construction of factories during capitalism’s decadence brings little ‘development’ with more unemployment, poverty and pollution. ● Deny the road of competition for a living; accept the road of cooperation for life! ● “I have no country to fight for; my country is the Earth, and I am a citizen of the World.” – Eugene Debs, Sept 11, 1915 ● Workers have no country; you have nothing to lose but your chains; you have a world to win; workers of the world unite!
World Socialist Party (India) 257 Baghajatin ‘E’ Block (East), Kolkata – 700086, Tel: 033-2425-0208, Email: wspindia@hotmail.com
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"Freedom of expression and the right to assemble are sacred human freedoms."
The right to assemble does not include interfering with other people's livelihood and the shipment of goods (as in Oakland). This movement is becoming coercive, and will only become more so unless OWS starts distinguishing between intimidation and free speech.
Part of the right to assemble is civil disobedience. If civil disobedience wasn't part of it, there would be no reason to protest.
You can call it a right, but it's not constitutionally protected. in fact, it's illegal. Civil disobedience is by definition, defying civil law. But feel free. Just know that, if you do it, you are breaking the law and also trampling the rights of others. (That's why you get arrested.)
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way to hurt the 99 percent !!!!!!
I love the poster! Beautiful. The idea of Occupy 2.0 is kind of lame though. Enough of those web 2.0 references already.
The Occupy Wall St. Movement has no leverage to force change and until OWS gets some leverage nothing will change.
If OWS blocks traffic and shuts down business as usual, OWS will have leverage to force change.
The forgotten must block traffic to remind the forgetful of the needs of the forgotten.
Don't follow the leaders. Block traffic with your friends.
Guidelines For Non-Violent Civil Disobedient Traffic Blocking. http://occupywallst.org/forum/guidelines-for-non-violent-civil-disobedient-traff/
Ok people. There was a large group of people who thought they had a good idea and followed through with action. Time has told us all that they were wrong. Please just go home or back to your hiding place because you have officially become an eyesore. Anyone who thinks that screaming "police brutality" while others chants “the whole world is watching" while deserving idiots get arrested and hopefully beaten is getting old. We love to watch you get beaten, but we are tired of hearing "the whole world is watching" so just shut it down and go home. You are all completely stupid and you will never accomplish anything unless you apply yourself to finding a better job. Do not reply to this saying there are no jobs out there, I could find a job in any state within 30 days so you are crying to the wrong person. Shut the fuck up and go to work.
Why do you think anyone cares about your opinion, again? Who died and made you Emperor of the World so that ANYONE should care what you have to say about anything? Even if you were for OWS...
No one cares, remember? Isn't that your point? If no one cares about OWS, why should anyone care about YOU?!
we must get rid of the entire cancer of corruption as well as greed . . . starting with the Fed ... then OWS.... and their shadow puppeteers.
You're funny.
In fact, our principal "shadow puppeteers" aren't even shadows any more. They are Shades. Ghosts. Among the departed: Mahatma Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
They control, needs be our very lives. They grasp our souls.
Pledge For Nonviolence
Now, dearest fighb8, oh blood worm of hook, compare that with anything, ever from Florida's Shame, the Big Mouth Bass of hate-radio.
funny they did use this today. spitting on truckers and attacking them. wow real peaceful..
Failing to apply these Nine Principles has to stand out as the # 1 problem for the Occupy movement.
Bingo !
"Our" Commons: Just more OWS self-importance. At least this time, try not to shit in the grass.
yes "our" commons it belongs to the people
Yes, so stop filling it with tents, garbage and excrement. And be out by closing time. Parks have rules so that everyone can use them, not just the self-important OWS crowd that thinks it owns everything.
well occupying has been working very well for us. hey u can still stop by we dont stop anyone from entering our camps
Zucotti Park doesn't close, so the public doesn't have to be out by any time.
I just love collapsing asshole's comments.
Be small.