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Occupy Denver Under Attack: Occupiers Take Streets Facing Tear Gas and Rubber Bullets

Posted 2 years ago on Nov. 12, 2011, 7:41 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

UPDATE 8:44pm 16 arrests confirmed. The march is headed to the courthouse by Civic Center Park.**

UPDATE 8:29pm The march is heading to the “Justice” center at 1331 Cherokee st.

UPDATE 8:20pm Live feeds lost after entering a parking garage at the Denver Center for the Performing Arts. Last words were that riot cops have surrounded them on all sides.

UPDATE 8:15pm Mayor Hancock has been found at Starz Film Festival. Occupiers are chanting and letting him hear it, since he’s tried to shut Occupy Denver off.

UPDATE 8:01pm Protesters are now moving down the street, not to Skyline Park, on a “confirmed” report that the Mayor Michael Hancock is down the street at 15th and Larimer.

UPDATE 7:55pm Protesters need water and supplies. Please help with what you can. I imagine there are medics on the scene and need medic supplies. There was also an announcement to give to the DABC for the bail fund. The police continue to pursue the protesters.

UPDATE 7:32pm Police are surrounding a group of protesters on the block of 16th and Champa. They are trying to head to 15th and Arapahoe. If you have contact with people down there, please tell them to stay together and stay out of the alleys.

UPDATE 7:17pm Protesters on the move up the 16th Street Mall, currently at Arapahoe and 16th. I can’t confirm, but I believe they are attempting to move camp to Skyline Park. There is a police presence following them and “boxing” them in. If you have Occupations materials from the Civic Center Park, please stay tuned for further updates on where to take those materials.

UPDATE 6:45pm Pepper bullets and tear gas launched into crowd.

UPDATE 6:27pm Police a chanting “MOOVE BACK” while the protesters rebut with “PEACEFUL! PEACEFUL! PEACEFUL!”

UPDATE 5:44 p.m. Protesters are chanting at police. Police continue to move. Unsure if chemical weapons have been used yet.

UPDATE 5:11 p.m. Police tape is up around the perimeter.

UPDATE 5:01 p.m. It looks like this raid is imminent. This is the “largest police presence ever” for one of the smallest gathering of protesters. It seems at minute they are going to bust in and take everything out.

Now on the Livestream you can see the police moving in to enforce an eviction notice that was served to Occupy Denver early Friday morning.

The Denver PD eviction statement:

It is illegal to place any encumbrance on the public right of way. An encumbrance is defined as “any article, vehical or thing whatsoever” which is on “any street, alley, sidewalk, parkway or other public way or place.” D.R.M.C. 49-246 et. seq. The manager of Public works may order all encumbrances in the public right-of-way to be removed. The failure to remove items so ordered is a criminal offense; the maximum possible penalty for which is up to one year in the county jail and/or up to $999 fine.

PLEASE REMOVE ALL PERSONAL ITEMS FROM THIS AREA.

If personal items are not removed immediately, you may be subject to an order of removal at which time all items will be subject to removal by the Denver Police Department.

Agency- Denver Police Department

If you can make it down there to help move stuff, you should.

Watch the #OccupyDenver hastag on twitter. Switch the setting to “all” from “top” tweets to see it live.

Additional Livestreams

Audio:

242 Comments

242 Comments


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[-] 11 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

It is astounding how some people seem to think that they are immune from economic brutality when very few people have this ill begotten luxury. What will happen to you should you lose your home, your job, and your income? What safety net will be there for you if We the People do not fight for economic justice and access to a better quality of life?

[-] 2 points by cat7757 (18) 2 years ago

tsdevi, I agree - it is not right the right wingers many who collect food stamps and take assistance still vote for the rebubs whose main concern is giving the wealthy additional tax breaks. I have been watching Occupy Portland on the news this morning. I wish all the Occupy Portland members the best. Power to the people!

[-] 1 points by nich (57) 2 years ago

Amen, tsdevi.

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[-] 0 points by MrDman (-57) 2 years ago

Yawn

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Sleepy?

[-] 0 points by repp (3) 2 years ago

Damn right!

[-] 0 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

Message to participants in the Occupy movement:

In my new article


”The Transition Phase: The Road To Freedom”


posted on my blog I share my thoughts on what to expect and what we should watch out for in the transition to freedom. Police brutallity is something we have to expect and I explain how we should deal with it. I also share my ideas as to what to do in general in order to achieve freedom and democracy. Please check it out. Thanks SFF

[-] 5 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

"However, in stage III, the movement and its supporters can now start fighting back with violence if necessary. There´s really nothing controvercial about that - It´s only self defense. It´s just defending democracy. There will most certainly be owners and wealthy people who despertaly wants to fight violently in an attemt to maintain their wealth and power. It will then be necessary to use force, and if necessary violent self defense in order to maintain the course that the majority wants." (Caps are to distinguish my thoughts from the quote from your blog).

STUDY HISTORY, MY FRIEND. NO LASTING REVOLUTION RESORTS TO VIOLENCE, NOT AT PHASE ONE, PHASE TWO, OR PHASE 103. WE ARE WORKING FOR TRANSFORMATION, NOT JUST CHANGE. "BE THE CHANGE YOU WISH THE WORLD TO BE." MAHATMA GHANDI

Please consider the article I've enclosed for a new outlook on methods. Thanks for your energy and willingness to sacrifice, but you would just be perpetuating the violence you seek to end by resorting to violence. To quote someone in this article--it may have ben Ghandi, "The means don't justify the ends--the means are the end. The means, the process, it all has to be consistent with the values you hope to promote. Peace http://www.nonviolenceinternational.net/seasia/whatis/book.php?style=pfv

[-] 1 points by ForestLensman (20) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

"but you would just be perpetuating the violence you seek to end by resorting to violence. To quote someone in this article--it may have ben Ghandi, "

OK, thanks for the information. However if you believe what you support, you will not try to get someone to not do something because of your opinion. He believes less peaceful means are in order, and there are a number who agree. Quit trying to control the whole Occupy with your idea of what is effective for change. My take is the police are easily suppressing this whole movement by means of chemical, biological and psychical and emotional violence; while dressed in huge black Storm Trooper regalia, on a peaceful and unarmed populace. They rely only on their weapons, just like Syria and all the others, our government is now showing their police state mentality. We have dead in the Occupy, whose only fault was not kicking them down the road, like those so suddenly concerned social workers show up; the same ones who failed them. So, they were caused by the 1% and were the worst off of our society. These OD's represent the failure or our GREAT SOCIETY, and it's destruction over 30 years by the GOP acting for the rich. Now when we ask for redress from the govt they send the police to crush us.

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

Disagreement is not allowed? Offering alternative solutions isn not allowed. Reasonable persuasion can't be tolerated? Think about it.

[-] 1 points by therestofus (40) from Estancia, NM 2 years ago

Agreed, I am no passivise and I do own guns and know how to use them BUT you CANNOT REACT. You are and always be out-gunned. The US military is far more capable at winning when arms are in the game more so than ever in past slaughters of people.

[-] 1 points by nich (57) 2 years ago

Good article.

[-] 1 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

If you are robbing a bank, police confront you, your fight back - don't even distort your mind to the point of thinking that that is self defense. You are justifying your plan of action on totally erroneous assumptions.

Maybe a revised edition of your plan of action would be appropriate at this point. When you get it done, come back and talk some sense.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

im talking about self defence when the movement is the majority or has the support of the majority - defending democracy - the will of the people. Enlighten yourself, please.

[-] 1 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

I fully understand your point of view. Thank you for your civility too. I usually get something like - wise up stupid.

But please, I ask you to be very careful about your assumptions such as including all Americans (as opposed to the 1%) in the 99% and then assuming that you are even close to approaching a majority or that you even have significant support of the majority. I know that you said "when" so I won't even go further with that argument.

Your call to enlightenment is a very interesting one. I have reached, what I consider a level of enlightenment over a period of 70 years. When and how did you arrive at yours? Please.

[-] -1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

I would think that most people would agree that violence is justified when it comes to self defense. I can´t imagine that being controverial to anyone. And that´s only what Im advocationg. I think I pretty clearly express the need for the use of non-violent means, but that we have to defend ourselves (with as humane methods as possible) if somebody wants to violently fight the will of the people. Remember, this is stage III, when the movement(s) are/have the support of the overwhelming majority - we simply cant stand still and just watch a small miority of wealthy organize attemts to dismantle our accomplishments. I´m simply just advocating self defense when necessary in my article, and there shouldnt be anything controversial about that. Thanks for your thoughts and criticism. yours s SFF

[-] 1 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

The will of (some) of the people is in no way what America is all about. You yourself are advocating such - but you revert to the same old tactics that they use. PTB and his circus would be making more that the big banksters today if he were around.

You have set yourself as "the people", you have proclaimed yourself as the god of the people and you think that by the promotion of self defense you will somehow win. If it reaches the point of Stage II or III, you have already lost - sucker.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

you only present strawman arguments here. Would you like to share your counter arguments when it comes to what I actually present in my article?

[-] 1 points by nich (57) 2 years ago

First of all, learn how to write, it is different than ranting. For my part if you cannot edit to distinguish between 'than' and 'then', I don't find you believable.

Second: I think you are way ahead of yourself, I think you are breathless, agitated and confusing theory and action. Intellectualizing generalizations and dumping facts into the pot is a recipe for mud pies, i.e. your manifesto for change is clear as mud.

Three: I don't think that your disclaimer saying that you are speaking only for yourself is credible. I too have been in the midst of social unrest that was kinetic, fluid and violent. The saying that " Water seeks its own level." is no more apparent in circumstances like these. You are rabble rousing to attract weak minded and morally weak people, whether consciously or not.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

So - "strawman" is the latest cliche, thanks for the information.

Now to your request for counter arguments. No, I really wouldn't. Thanks for the opportunity but no thanks. I can only say that by assumption, your office must be a floor or two above the bankers.

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

The public property you are squatting on belongs to all of us (the 100%). We pay the police to keep it crime free and menace free. We don't want you there anymore, so we have made it known it's time for you to be removed. Fight all you want, loser.

[Deleted]

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

We is the rest of us besides the few hundreds of you. And don't use words you don't understand, you look even sillier than you already do . ..

[-] 1 points by Jonas541 (72) 2 years ago

Sir, don't talk down to me you have no clue who or what I am. I'm not one of the protesters but I support what they are trying to do. And yes your position seems to be slightly against freedom of speech, what else would you call your words?

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

Stop the strawman crap. I am not going to keep replying to your restatement of what I said.

[-] -1 points by FreeMarskeet (10) 2 years ago

Struggle is not part of the 100% he's a commie in Norway

[-] 2 points by mserfas (652) from Ashland, PA 2 years ago

What bothers me about the scheme on your blog is that it seems very scanty on Stage IV. There are too many movements, especially "left-wing" movements, that start out with high minded ideals but never seem to actually arrive at the goal. I think that protesters need to uphold the rights they support from the beginning.

If someone wants to be an anarchist (or otherwise to place himself above social conventions to draw the lines of a new society) that means that he is approaching a condition where the people are the police - and if the people are the police, then they must adhere to the same rigorous ethical and procedural standards that they expect police to follow. By contrast, at http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-must-not-_commit_-police-brutality/#comment-341520 , I've remarked on protesters popping up who seem bent on blocking people they disagree with from assembling, or engage in unjustifiable physical attacks, or try to prevent people from filming in public places - all things we don't want the police to be doing.

I don't think you can let tendencies like that go on uncorrected, and not end up eventually with a Revolutionary Police Force in charge that is doing all the same things (or worse) that the old police force did. I think a true revolution is not really about changing who is in power or who is in the government buildings or even whether you call it a government or a Spokes Council, and not even so much about the details of the voting. You have to change (and improve) the individual human rights that people demand and can rely on in their interactions with one another from day to day. In truth, the problem we really have right now is not so much that the government is backward, but rather that people still function, day to day, largely in the context of hierarchical corporations with a virtually monarchist worldview, rather than implementing even a rudimentary representative democracy in the workplace and market. Trying to overthrow the democratic government is truly pointless - our problem is that it is already being overthrown by those harking back to having dictatorship in every aspect of life.

[-] 0 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

I didn´t find any serious criticism of my article worth responding to until at the very end, so I´ll comment the last part.

It´s not about "overthrowing" government right away though. I explain a process were we gradually shift power from power centers like state, government, and of course also private tyrannies (aka corporations) and over to communities and democratic workplaces building democracy form the bottom up. If you like the idea of democracy and people being in charge of their own life and work you should favor having a long term goal of dismanteling power centers in favor of more direct democracy

[-] 1 points by mserfas (652) from Ashland, PA 2 years ago

This is a very interesting comment by Chomsky, emphasizing the long-standing history in America of the idea of wage-slavery as a counterpart to chattel slavery dating back even before the Civil War. It is all too apparent that we are reaping some of the fruits of earlier failures. Even so... I see him quoted widely describing Abraham Lincoln's acceptance of this position (see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery ) - but is there actually a quote where Lincoln uses the term? I think that would be immensely useful ammunition.

Even so ... the earlier movement did not succeed in ending wage-slavery, or otherwise guaranteeing employment or rights except to a certain group of union workers. Strikes and sit-ins and protests and bargaining lead to (and led to) unions, but I don't see them as a reliable road to truly democratic workplaces.

I'm thinking that somehow, very early on, the people protesting have to devise a way to actually create fair, democratic employment for their people, not just to bargain over terms with those controlling the existing companies. Admittedly that's a tall order, and yet... right now the people with the money aren't investing. And a well-organized group of would-be workers could actually create some amount of capital out of thin air, if they were willing to put in their work up front in order to receive the products once they are finished.

[-] 1 points by ForestLensman (20) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

They will get tired of paying for the overtime, just wear them out and talk about the money so the taxpayers will say stop, or kill them.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

will do.

[-] 0 points by nich (57) 2 years ago

Get some sleep and get laid.

[-] 1 points by MrDman (-57) 2 years ago

Why not....Plunty of rape going around these days

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

how do I posted titled links?

and strong tags

<strong>UPDATE 8:01pm</strong> P

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[-] 8 points by Miku (4) 2 years ago

I am an Occupy Wall Street supporter and I just read that Jay-Z is selling shirts trying to profit off of the movement. First off JAY-Z and many of his corps has HEAVY TIES TO WALLSTREET. From much scrutiny I now hear that Jay-Z wants to donate the money he made off of his "Occupy Wall Street a/k/a Occupy ALL STREETS shirts to the movement I say we DO NOT ACCEPT IT. If we accept money from this WALL STREET SUPPORTER we may as well go home and forget about WHO we are FIGHTING and WHAT we are fighting for!

[-] 4 points by me2 (534) 2 years ago

I agree, more phoney celebrity bullshit.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Yes, this was on Alternet and it is a ruse...very marketable!

[-] 1 points by repp (3) 2 years ago

Damn right!

[-] 1 points by justaguy (91) 2 years ago

no way. Can't happen. An entrepreneur taking advantage of the group to make cash, all the while pretending that he is for the people? Didn't see that coming.

He is another rich guy that will use and profit from OWS all they can.

Can't wait for the Michael Moore movie. I am sure he will make millions off of it all too. He does have a rather high electric bill I would bet, on all of his lavish homes though, so I kinda get that he has to work.

It is what makes American go around.

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[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

If he's raising money for the movement and he wants to be identified with it what is the problem?

[-] 1 points by alexis777 (1) 2 years ago

If he was serious, he'd be camping out with the rest of the occupiers. He's just looking for attention and money, that shameful capitalist j z

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I can't read his mind. OW has many who admire it but don't even know where Zucotti Park is. At any rate if he offers money to OW I hope they take it and use it well.

[-] 0 points by australiano (37) from Burleigh Waters, QLD 2 years ago

There is a solution to this, a revolutionary one. The answer is here: Lets see if you can work it out. http://isohunt.com/torrents/Jay-Z?iht=2&ihp=1&ihs1=1&iho1=d

[-] -2 points by steven2002 (363) 2 years ago

So what Jay-z is one our side. If he maqkes some money good for him. We need more J-z.

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 2 years ago

He's a self-aggrandizing bullshit artist. Whoopee.

[-] 4 points by Kelli (8) 2 years ago

I remember when the Denver Protest said that armed policemen were going to join the protest. I also remember when the banks would pay YOU to put your money into the bank. The protesters sleep in the cold, in the snow, for what they truly believe is right. We are protesting for the future, because we need to change it. These people are who you work with, your friends, your neighbors, your relatives, people with real ideals and dreams. We as a people should all be throwing our fists up and forcing our voice to be heard. We're tired of our constitution being ignored! Land of the free huh? Even if the protests ended, under the cold uncaring hands of brutes, the people of this country are not going to forget. We're going to get the country back to the way is was meant to be.

[-] 2 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Indeed, and it will be the best that America and the world has seen as of yet.

[-] 2 points by repp (3) 2 years ago

Perfectly said!

[-] 3 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Contact Mayor Michael B. Hancock

General assistance with city services: Dial 3-1-1 (or 720-913-1311 from outside Denver) or visit www.denvergov.org/311

Mayor's Office Phone Number: 720-865-9000 Email: milehighmayor@denvergov.org

[-] 3 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Call Mayor Hancock and tell him you support the Occupiers, Freedom of Assembly and Freedom of Speech, and you will vote accordingly.

[-] 3 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Denver Police Non-Emergency Number:

Non-emergencies - Dial 720.913.2000

Please call Denver Police and tell them Occupiers have a right to Freedom of Assembly and Freedom of Speech, and you will vote accordingly.

[-] 2 points by Idaltu (662) 2 years ago

Those who jeer at our efforts for economic equity will eventually become part of the movement. The reason is simple: the entire global economy is not sustainable. The raping of the world economy by the parasites of Wall Street will catch up to everyone; including the 1 %. Its not rocket science. When a parasite kills off the host the parasite also dies off. The goal of this movement is to find non-violent methods for preventing total world wide economic collapse. The first objective towards this goal was ‘occupation’ which was very useful in waking people up to the fact that governments world wide were purchased by the parasites to foster their unbridled greed for money and power.

The second objective must be an economic measure that will stop the parasites from causing further damage to the global economy. It has to be a measure that stops the parasites with the least amount of damage to the host. This means that jobs and businesses must continue to prosper while at the same time stop the breeding of the parasites. These parasites remain virulent from feeding off of the interest made on borrowed money. One main feed line for this is the use of credit and debit card purchases. The second objective could be accomplished by world wide boycotting of credit and debit card purchases. Pay in cash, this maintains businesses and jobs but weakens the parasites.

[-] 2 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

I was at a Michelle Shocked and Friends show, an intimate show, Ms. Shocked allowed a couple of young guys to take the stage. They were beckoning to get more "professionals" out there, more intelligent people. It was a cute thing, that they assumed that a bunch of older people naturally fit their perception of professionals and that they have the keys to intelligence. I will go down to Occupy Austin, but not because I am looking for office work, only to offer ideas and learn something in doing so;).

[-] 2 points by Revolutionary (274) 2 years ago

Government is frustrated by the people who try to redeem their natural rights.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

I would put it a little differntly: The business-run government is frustrated by the people who try to redeem their natural rights http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN2Q6sdh6Bg

Please visit my blog

The revolution starts now. yours s. SFF

[-] 1 points by Revolutionary (274) 2 years ago

Thank you for the blog.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

glad you liked it. Hope you read all my articles there, especially ”The Transition Phase: The Road To Freedom” Feel free to leave comments expressing your opinions, and also feel free to share it with your friends/acquaintances. SFF

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

wow, your analysis is impeccable. I often wonder if it is just inflation making the stock market rise, or if it is being used as a conditioning agent.

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[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

I might. Thanks for the interest. You can of course send me a private message here on ows.org.

yours s. SFF

[-] 2 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

If we are to prepare ourselves for the long haul, then we must train ourselves to be nonviolent, in the tradition of Ghandi and King. I recently saw some video tape of folks who were attacked by the police in Berkeley, where many individuals responded to the police by yelling antagonistic and provocative things. Now, I am not justifying what the police did, but still this kind of response will never yield long-term positive results. Even when you're unarmed and you are not being physically violent, if you're attitude is antagonistic, you will never defeat your opponents, because you are projecting the negativity that you're opposing. Take a look at this study of nonviolent strategies. If we want to fundamentally change the world, we have to change, fundamentally. "Be the change you want to see in the world." Mahatma Ghandi

http://www.nonviolenceinternational.net/seasia/whatis/book.php?style=pfv

[-] 2 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Then again, non violence has not really worked for the people Tibet...nor did it work for the founders of this country. We don't have to embrace violence, 'cause we'll lose the battle pretty quick;) I think that this is the beginning of a process of breaking down identities. This discussion forum is a huge inspiration, as people are largely reluctant to discuss politics...as if they are somehow excused from the body politic. Je n'ai comprends pas.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Yes...it takes a lot of practice.

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

Yes, TSDEVI, I honestly think it's an ethical (spiritual, if you will) practice that we must devote ourselves to in every aspect of our lives, in all of our interactions, if we are to have the strength to behave peacefully in the face of violent opposition. I hope that you have a chance to read the article whose link I posted. It is well researched and provides many examples of movements that have practiced nonviolent strategies. I think the authors are Australian.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Yes, I will, thank you!

[-] 2 points by Garybryant2 (42) 2 years ago

Summary:

One in the loss column. The season is young.

Crow all you want, Tea Bags. In the end, we will crow last.

Count on it.

Gary Bryant

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

Gary, I hope that you will find a way to love your enemies--only then can we hope for real change. Only then can we hope that they will come to share our point of view.

[-] 0 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 2 years ago

Nope. You Marxist filth will not prevail.

[-] 2 points by WeUsAll (200) 2 years ago

Same as it ever was with the police in Denver. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwh2tIfNNfE

[-] 1 points by thepenpusher (1) 2 years ago

Interesting that all of the videos above, showing the progress or lack of it for the Occupy protests in Denver, all begin with 30 seconds of corporate advertising. Personally, I agree with peaceful demonstrations decrying our current economic issues. I don't hear any demands however; what do we want to accomplish? Over and above rhetoric? From all sides?

[-] 1 points by ForestLensman (20) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

The Posse Comitatus Act is an often misunderstood and misquoted FYI. Here is what the Government is willing to throw at any insurrection, or even a prolonged and gigantic Occupation, basically the entire, Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force. Hey, just like they are in Syria, Egypt and so many others.

The Posse Comitatus Act is an often misunderstood and misquoted United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed on June 18, 1878, after the end of Reconstruction. Its intent (in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807) was to limit the powers of local governments and law enforcement agencies from using federal military personnel to enforce the laws of the land. Contrary to popular belief, the Act does not prohibit members of the Army from exercising nominally state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order"; it simply requires that any orders to do so must originate with the United States Constitution or Act of Congress. The statute only directly addresses the US Army (and is understood to equally apply to the US Air Force as a derivative of the US Army); it does not reference, and thus does not implicitly apply to nor restrict units of the National Guard under federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States. The Navy and Marine Corps are prohibited by a Department of Defense directive, not by the Act itself.[1][2] The Coast Guard, under the Department of Homeland Security, is exempt from the Act.

[-] 1 points by i8jomomma (80) 2 years ago

react like they did during the LA riots and show the pigs and anyone else that they can't walk all over us anymore and maybe then they will let us do our thing because they can't stop us all...........stop taking shit from them

[-] 1 points by i8jomomma (80) 2 years ago

fuck the police and anyone else that stands in our way............don't let the pigs push us around............take back what is ours like they did during the LA riots..........they got the hint then and now they may need a little reminder that it is our streets...........occupy the homes of the ones that put us in the streets to begin with..........take away everything they got and make them walk a mile in our shoes..........maybe they will get the hint then............occupy everywhere and anywhere we want..........they can't stop us all

[-] 1 points by apato (6) 2 years ago

HOW MANY ARE WE ?!?! GO TO THIS SITE !

www.theindignados.org

Go to this website, and show your indignation, just by putting your name in a text box ! Let show the world how many Indignants/occupants are we !

[-] 1 points by Raccoon (0) 2 years ago

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

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[-] 1 points by jaimeordonezvictoria (4) 2 years ago

I have extrapolated this from three recent NPR news casts. I believe that the 99% Occupy Movement should capitalize on this recipe of three existing wrongs that appear to be among (if not) "the" major contributors to this tragedy that we are all protesting:

Imagine (1) a transparent Congress who is not allowed to withhold the names of companies who financially support their campaigns, while (2) abolishing the 501c4 non-profit "campaign contribution" organization tax code loopholes (that they hide their crime behind,) and (3) repeal Corporate Person-hood, and you will have America back. Period. These are the three legislated policies that formulated this disaster.... It's called "conspiracy," and conspiracy is illegal in this country.

I believe that if you investigate these extrapolations, you will have a story that needs to go viral. — Reform Congress = Reform the 1%!!

Hey,... the 99% Occupation Movement is constantly being criticized for not having a goal and set of requirements. Why not these three?? Why not you??

I am sending this out everywhere, even the White House. Please pass it on. I think NPR has given us clues.

Jaime Ordonez Victoria

[-] 1 points by nate (48) 2 years ago

From Egypt to Syria to the USA...the police - backed by government officials - have been thugs for the 1%!

[-] 1 points by ALeftLibertarian (-1) 2 years ago

Wow. I'm surprised the protesters didn't go and defend themselves from these thugs. We aren't the criminals if we are simply defending ourselves from these dogs of the state.

[-] 1 points by tremain2004 (5) 2 years ago

I am hoping to see some marytrs

Many martyrs

Death to stupidity

Death to the worthless.

Make room for those that work.

[-] 1 points by Gileos (309) 2 years ago

Get your asses out of the street.

[-] 1 points by wolf (17) 2 years ago

I told them, dont occupy , but they did not listen to me. What can I do now if policemen pushed to use tear gas just to defense themselves .

[-] 1 points by lonespectator (106) 2 years ago

Once again an example of the failure of OWS to do anything to truly progress the movement to the source in DC. These foolish assemblies in NYC have done nothing but taint you position and rapidly lose support. Nov 6th, you had the opportunity to promote "Occupy the White House" but chose to secretly support "stop the pipeline while working with the DNC and (I've since discovered) the National Democractic Socilist Party. This is why you are falling apart at the General Assembly level, and continue to attract the Black Bloc Anarchists.. Stop this foolishness in NYC now, and Amass at the White House to Occupy the White House..Occupy the peoples house and Congress. OWH. That is what the majority of the Occupy movement is calling for, and now seems to be landing on "deaf ears" as this Nov. 17th operation will prove. This is your end..Your self-destruction. GO TO WASHINGTON..The Capitol Police will not steal your tents and Generators. OWH..Take your demands to the source. The President supports you and wants you there now. OWH Now!!!

[-] 1 points by ForestLensman (20) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Phase right now and future phases should include registering to vote, and start some grassroots political work to throw out the GOP bums and get some liberals in office.

[-] 1 points by squarerootofzero (81) 2 years ago

The 1st tactic would have been to attack the leader (personally) and frame them as communist or worse. The 2nd tactic would have been to attack the goals. The 3rd tactic is to claim "public safety" concerns. The 4th tactic is to attack individual behavior, use aggressive stereotypes, and claim lack of personal responsibility. The 5th tactic will be direct confrontation. What else is there to do? Stand up for your rights.

[-] 1 points by freeows (84) 2 years ago

Anybody knows what's going on now in Denver? Further development?

[-] 1 points by Thisisthetime (200) from Kahlotus, WA 2 years ago

More Power to Occupy Denver. The1% are getting cranky, they are having their Sheriffs give orders to have their dirty work done for them. Create Jobs Not Violence. Be Strong and Protect Each Other. Fair-ness.

[-] 1 points by CancelCurrency (128) 2 years ago

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. July 4, 1776.

[-] 1 points by stanchaz (36) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Our emperors have no clothes. Our emperors have no shame. These governors, mayors, city councils, police chiefs and street cops of America need to realize that it is NOT UP TO THEM whether or not Americans peaceably gather, protest, discuss, or demonstrate. It's up to a document called the US CONSTITUTION. Zuccotti Park is no longer just  a place - Zuccotti Park is everywhere. You can beat us and arrest us and tear-gas us, you can try to "permit" us to death....but you can't kill an idea. You can't keep down a people’s hopes and dreams for a better life.....a life with dignity and freedom....for us, and for our kids. More power to Occupy Wall Street, as it spreads to every town and city. Because OWS is us, and for us, and by us. It comes up from the grassroots, and it lifts us up in turn. With OWS America has found it’s voice, and that voice demands fairness and justice - for ALL. This land IS our land! AND WE WANT IT BACK! We want our LIVES back! We want our FUTURE back! But it’s much more than just words.... it’s much more than just politics.... it’s your LIFE, and how you want to live it. So why not take some time, find a quiet place somewhere, and consider this: Each of us has only one brief life....one chance....one roll of the dice....and many choices. The time has come to choose....to risk...and to act. If not now...then when? If not you, then....who? You DO have the power my friend....and the choice IS yours. Don’t let your dreams die....

[-] 1 points by crashingglobalmarkets (43) from Brick, NJ 2 years ago

One effective service you couldve provided from day 1 was an uncensored global forum & youre failing as much as yer feared 1% at that.

[-] 1 points by JosephCouture (45) 2 years ago

London, Ontario was the first city in Canada to use the police to evict the protesters by force. They did so with the full support of a large segment of the general population. Read how a fundamental change in Canadian values has left the 99 percent their own worst enemies.

www.josephcouture.com

[-] 1 points by AnnArkey (31) 2 years ago

I hope the people get their pets out of there.

[-] 1 points by antivirus (1) 2 years ago

Occupy Movement Unmasked

Occupiers have revealed themselves to be a virus in our society. Take the word occupy, it is to take something that does not belong to you. That's exactly what Stalin, Mao, Castro, and Pol Pot did. The occupiers are a parasitical life form, looking to feed themselves off the efforts and labors of others. They are takers, not makers. Their breeding ground is likely the public school system. The occupiers are non-achievers, unsanitary, and law breakers. In other words, they are Un-American. They should all be shipped out in boxcars on the new intercontinental railroad.

[-] 1 points by averycleverham (1) 2 years ago

On November 11 the Halifax police served an eviction order and brutally removed and arrested some of the Occupiers. They were choked, dragged away by the hair, one was unconcious when he was thrown into a police van, their personal property was ruined.
The footage is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpaGDXGIph4 Since then many of the Occupiers are being followed by police. Manyof the organizers have been arrested. Yesterday we went to a private space to dry the tents and sleeping bags and police came and filmed us the entire time (pretty boring footage, I would think......30 people laying tarps out on grass..lol). We held our General Assemby in a private hall - police were outside the entire time. Since when do private citizens attending a meeting in a private space require police surrveillance?

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

Since you started acting like little terrorist cells . . .

[-] 1 points by Jonas541 (72) 2 years ago

Wow so in your estimation the revolutionary war was a massive terrorist attack against England.... Very patriotic

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

It was a rebellion. I'm sure England viewed it as a terrorist attack.

Like them, if you think you are in the right, and the government (and the rest of us) is your enemy, then by all means start a war so we can end it quickly and be done with you.

[Deleted]

[-] 0 points by FreeMarskeet (10) 2 years ago

Please explain your use of the word "fascist"

Fascism: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition...

He said "Like them, if you think you are in the right, and the government (and the rest of us) is your enemy, then by all means start a war so we can end it quickly and be done with you."

That would make you the forcible one in starting a war trying to suppress your opposition, also your ideals fall more in line with fascism calling for economic and social regimentation and you guys do fall in the "movement" part of the definition also.

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

You are a silly little boy, but you will grow out of it.

[-] 1 points by Jonas541 (72) 2 years ago

And your a brainwashed idiot.

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

That's "you're" a brainwashed idiot.

[-] 1 points by Toynbee (656) from Savannah, GA 2 years ago

Instead of suppressing what is clearly clearly a national if not global outrage about a host of problems, the people in power need to begin addressing the issues and/or developing a process for meaningful dialogue with the citizens of this nation -- as well as the captains of industry.

We do not need another KENT STATE DISASTER before the leaders who are supposed to represent us begin listening.

[-] 1 points by bjames (0) 2 years ago

I'm in Denver. What can I do? Are we going to flood the courthouses?

[-] 1 points by Fredone (234) 2 years ago

re violence and non-violence. We have to just be above all things practical. I think violence is just so counterproductive mainly because it gives ammo to the biased, media which is owned by 1%ers and is constantly trying to paint us a bad color. We are in a tricky position, but we can do it.

Secondly the cops don't really mind violence. They have all the equipment and training they need to handle that pretty easily. It doesn't even bother them or hurt them; most of the ones that volunteer/ are chosen for the riot squad like a good streetfight, and a good excuse to be violent. They are no better than the black bloc people, indeed much worse as they attack people not property. They are the blue bloc! The biggest gang of them all.

So among the things that you might consider a benefit of violence, pressuring the police and making things difficult for them should be low down on the list. Although I have to admit the threat of violence does seem to give them pause and more respect before they move in, although that may be because it does look bad for them when a non-violent protester that happens to be there gets hurt (as it should!).

Also there are some cases of rioting working to drive the cops away, such as the Christiania riots (see wikipedia article). However the publicity would be so bad it would be suicide to try something like that. Better to be nimble and innovative instead, there are lots of other things that can work like taking the park back the very next day etc.

[-] 1 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 2 years ago

Why would you post a video of a drunk kid arguing nonsense with a police officer. It isn't helping your image.

[-] 1 points by Bellaciao29 (99) 2 years ago

The same thing is happening in Italy. The italian citizens are happy because Berlusconi has resigned. But they don't imagine that the new government has been asked by the interests of the world finance. They will be compelled to pay higher taxes and to give up their rights. But when they will realize to be more desperate than before, here will happen the same thing that are happening in the States. That's why we look at your Movement hoping in your victory.

[-] 2 points by signuptac (3) 2 years ago

Italy most likely will have perhaps a drop of 20% in gdp. Though that is good if happened world wide, as gdp is purchasing crap that only harms our planet and kills the human spirit, gdp must be reduced in ways that will benefit humans. Like clean energy that cant be made for profit, food for all and having our kind doctors visit all of our homes for an apple. You get my point ?

[-] 1 points by Bellaciao29 (99) 2 years ago

The stupidity of the corps is revealed by their ideas of "no end growing" and in putting the Internal Product of a nation (we call that PIL, you call the same GDP?) as the base of its happiness. I agree perfectly with your point and I'm fighting on the WEB to reduce our needs to the minimum (the ancient greeks maintained this idea!) to save the culture, to socialize more and more (we, animals and trees are only a family), to exploit the clean energy, to safeguard the commun goods, to have an efficient welfare and to return to live in a natural way. I think that the 80% of honest people would like to live according the model foreseen by the "Venus Project". The problem is that we are not organized, but I'm sure that in a little time we'll reach this fantastc objective.

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

Hurray, for adamanto75!!! Passionately and accurately stated. Simply elegant.

[-] 1 points by australiano (37) from Burleigh Waters, QLD 2 years ago

Due to Jay-Z profiting of the Occupy Wall Street movement, I can only see that it is fair enough for us to make a mutual agreement to download any of his albums for free. First you'll need a torrent downloader www.utorrent.com, then once its installed go here to download any of his music (you can also use pirate bay if you like) http://isohunt.com/torrents/Jay-Z?iht=2&ihp=1&ihs1=1&iho1=d

CHECKMATE JAY-Z MOFO!

[-] 0 points by justaguy (91) 2 years ago

Of course he will then have the music industry sue, or threaten to sue and force you to pay thousands of dollars per song to make up to the economic damage done to him.

I sure wish that this example of JZ would awaken the masses that are camping, that any rich guy that says he is supportive, is looking for a way to cash in on you all.

I know I know, he likes you. Therefore him making millions off of you is ok.

[-] 1 points by bobby (58) from Quincy, CA 2 years ago

To: Prime Minister Roseanne Barr [Green Tea] Prime Minister Gail Lightfoot [Libertarian] Prime Minister Charles Bruce Stewart [Green Libertarian] Secretary Jacob Covich [Catholic Trotskyist] Cc: All Voters and Non Voters From: Secretary James Ogle [Free Parliamentary] Subject: USP: Special Bulletin 11/12/2011 http://usparliament.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=515


  1. Forty Items Elected on Executives Direct Democracy (DD) Eballot http://usparliament.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=513

Final Results from 2nd Direct Democracy (DD) Planks on the Platform Election Executives Eballot Thirty-nine Items Passed on 11/11/2011


Four eballots were cast, plus one spoiled eballot, for a total of five eballots, so a majority (50% plus one) of three tics are required for passing each of the forty items listed below.

THE FOLLOWING FORTY ITEMS ARE CONSIDERED PASSED IN CONSECUTIVE ORDER:

Real investigations for the many white collar criminals that crashed the US economy. After a conviction, declare such types as enemy combatants and be put in the same category as we do terrorists. Both are a huge threat to the American people. Let's be totally honest about this. End the drug war at the federal level, let states decide to legalize marijuana and regulate hard drugs if they feel that state resources for law enforcement are best used elsewhere and they want to take the profit motive out of violent drug gangs. The only people that profit off the drug war are law enforcement, prisons, and drug gangs. We need to stop repeating the mistake of alcohol probation. ELIMINATE "PERSONHOOD" STATUS FOR CORPORATIONS (Sorry Mitt Romney) Single payer health care, or a health care public option for the states that want it. Put it to a popular vote in every state. Why should Americans keep waiting for the federal government to fix this problem? Let the states levy taxes to finance such a system, and allow those states that still want private health insurance to stick with their system.

Read more at: http://usparliament.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=515

[-] 1 points by nich (57) 2 years ago

There is more rhetorical energy than I ever imagined when partisanship is totally disregarded. Pretty longwinded though. One gets the idea in the first paragraph.

[-] 0 points by eyeofthetiger (304) 2 years ago

they have rubbers?

[-] 0 points by MrDman (-57) 2 years ago

Another wrong headline....Should read "Denver Under Attack by Diseased Infected Socialist".....

[-] 0 points by MrDman (-57) 2 years ago

Dump the rubber ones and start using real ones....

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

Oh the drama!! The heroism! The smell . . .

[-] 0 points by stevo (314) 2 years ago

Love it...OWS live streams have FUCKING COMMERCIALS!!! You fucking hypocritres

[-] 0 points by KnowledgeableFellow (471) 2 years ago

Stop breaking the law and you will stop being arrested. You freaking idiots.

[-] 0 points by bobby (58) from Quincy, CA 2 years ago

Get Ready for the 8th USA Parliament Election of 2012!

Voting is the best way to organize politically, and the Sainte-Lague parliament seat distribution system is the best way to count votes in a representative assembly with mathematical perfection.

The Arab Spring organizations were not elected in an advanced system and that led to violence and civil war. The USA's political establishment had no help for peaceful transition, and our current president and his foreign secretary turned their backs on the innocents by adopting a war mongering posture. The issue here is representation for women, and no civil war involving democratically illegitimate warring sides can resolve this issue.

Fortunately the 8th USA Parliament is kicking off elections on 1/1/2012 to help remedy this insufficiency in the USA's elections, to help avoid violent conflict.

After sixteen years of electing 100 names, with a guaranteed satisfaction level of 99% plus 100 votes reached year after year, we're raising the satisfaction level guarantee to 99.9% plus 1000 votes in 2012.

We've elected new rules to increase the size of the elected members of parliament from 100 to 1000 MPs, by a vote of improving our rules by the ruling coalition.

Any name receiving 1/1001ths (or .999%) plus one vote of the total votes cast in 2012 starting on 4/20 will be elected as one of the voting MPs. But you should really get on our free email list to stay in touch and be informed of the tight schedule.

Sign up today and help prepare to elect your name as one of the MPs, and then you can help us expand the ruling coalition to include your name, when you're one of those who votes to approve our rules.

Hope you like it!

Best, --James Ogle [Free Parliamentary] Vote Counting Minister

http://usparliament.org/votehere.php

Join the Frees, Opposite gender #1!

[-] 0 points by Claregirl (2) 2 years ago

What a bunch of nonsense. A huge screaming headline saying they were facing "rubber bullets and teargas" when neither was used.

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

The movement is a magnet for drama queens.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

God bless the people of Occupy Denver.

[-] 0 points by signuptac (3) 2 years ago

why you bring in your imaginary little cartoon character who you call god. Its that kind of silliness that must end if we are going to let evolution snap forward so all humans are equal by removing the institutions of control. end the fed, end god

[-] 3 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

I beg to differ, imposing spiritual beliefs is not an effective way of offering and maintaining freedom. While religion can be used to manipulate and politicize, faith and spirituality are fundamental aspects to the human experience. If you choose not to devote time and energy to this, it is a choice that should be respected, but others must not adopt your perspective. I may identify with secular humanism...but arguing about metaphysical beliefs is silly. We, in our crude existence, are not the sum total of the universe;)

[-] 1 points by nich (57) 2 years ago

Live and let live.

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

I agree, TSDEVI. This is what I wrote to SIGNUPTAC: Wow, SIGNUPTAC, your energy is powerful and forceful--I hear where you're coming from because, yes, it's true that even the concept of God has been corrupted by its institutionalization. It was co-opted by the hierarchy. Still, if you deconstruct your last statement (while I totally understand the source of your frustration), the demand to end god expresses a hegemony of its own. We have to understand that we cannot declare an end to certain ideas. We can only engage in dialogue and seek the truth, without retreating into our own self-righteous corners. Isn't asserting an end to god just a different brand of authoritarianism and fundamentalism, maybe the mirror image of that which you're trying to end? I hope we can all humble ourselves as we move forward. Let's work toward transformation, not just change.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

I might empathize with signuptac, but I also empathize with the persons who are compelled to call upon their perceptions of higher power, and between the two, the person who sounds nasty is not the person who simply says "God Bless." That is all. I gather that you aim to employ a certain way of communicating, but is this not another form of hegemony? Why can we not let the truth speak for itself and be its humble conduits, should we be capable enough?

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

That is a nice way to bolster a persons ego when they are being egotistical, your praise of signuptac. Must we all be infantalized? Why must we speak in the vernacular of praise? Why can we not simply speak, with an effort to neither praise, nor condemn, but to simply communicate? It is this need for praise that corrupts us.

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

So interesting--so I guess there's never a right way to approach anyone. Even a sincere attempt to reach someone and achieve common ground is suspect?
Wow. It must be lonely out there.
So am I interpreting you correctly: basically everyone is disingenuous, and condescending? Really I fault this one-dimensional form of communicating--we all expect too much of it. Maybe what we really need to do is to abandon these forums and meet with others face to face. I had hoped that I was building bridges and was attempting to find common ground. The most interesting comment was "I gather that you aim to employ a certain way of communicating, but is this not another form of hegemony?" Yes language has it's pitfalls, and miscommunication is inevitable, but I think I drew a valid analogy. Can you disagree with the substance of that point?
You've cured me TSEVI. I think I've reached my limit in these forums. I'm going to my GA in 20 minutes. These organizations are the essence of what this movement is trying to accomplish anyway, and if someone needs clarification or wants to challenge me, they may, face to face; there's authenticity in that. I will, as always be a humble, and yes, a more than capable conduit of the truth as I see it. Really, that's all any of us our trying to achieve.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

You made me realize how being positive is key and I take the time to thank you for your obvious earnest nature. I am sure your presence will be appreciated at your GA! I guess I like raw responses, no frills, which does not mean that this is the best way to communicate.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Sounds like I struck a cord that made you unhappy and I am sorry for that, really, I am just being frank. I am glad that you are going to your GA, as I am inspired to as well, not because I do not appreciate these posts, but because an endearing couple of boys asked for people to come down and participate. LQQK, I didn't mean to offend you or shut you down, your response sounded scripted and abiding by scripts is not genuine. I understand non violent communication is key, but don't we have to be able to simple hear another person's point of view without it being sugar coated? Why can we not simply be earnest, respectful and direct? Maybe I am kidding myself, as I often do!

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

Thanks for continuing to talk to me. I think I was trying very hard to be respectful, earnest, and direct, and so yeah, your comment stung a bit. I had been so tired of reading of people trading insults, that I was trying very hard to acknowledge writers and connect in a civil way. The script? Hmmm. I can't convince you that I was being perfectly genuine, that I was motivated by my highest ideals if it didn't come off that way, can I? As I said earlier, we are at a disadvantage here because of the limitations of writing anonymously--trying to make personal connections through an essentially impersonal medium, What we've missed in these recent conversations is the fact that originally I responded to you because we were both challenging the idea that violence is means to an end. That's what I'll take away from this exchange. Let's overlook the way in which we may have to sometimes stumble through the fog to arrive at clarity.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

You are probably respectful and courteous naturally...don;t try too hard. We are naturally fun loving social animals, but our the value system of our hierarchy does not always allow this. Peace, Love, Enjoy!

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

You are right, trading insults is not productive, even if it is sick fun;). Yes, I believe you! My point, in response to the post admonishing the use of the phrase "God bless Occupy Denver," was that people are free to have their own spiritual beliefs and I do not admonish this until they become offensive of the integrity of others; so I would offer the same courtesy!

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

Can't argue with that.

[-] 1 points by retac (1) 2 years ago

and, as the man walks away from his wall st computer, just having made a large sum of money by simply taken part in a trade that literally paved a way thru the last remaining old growth forest to remove a mountain of its coal. all done legally.
As John Lennon wrote " pushing barriers and planting seeds" personally i find it an insult to all of the inhabitants of earth when a fool reduces conversations to a level of evolution where a solar eclipse was perhaps thought of as the end of the world. Its not that its their right. its that they must be made aware of their silliness

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

I am not sure that anyone can be cured of their silliness, its apart of the human condition. None of us are infinitely wise and most of us are profoundly ignorant. It is the quest to not be ignorant that must be commended. Humans, particularly those in power, have an unfortunate desire to limit inquisitiveness, usually for the purpose of maintaining power. Those people must not be allowed to impose their beliefs on others in a just society. This has been one of the marginal triumphs of the modern world, but we will continue to come up against impediments, namely our economic system that rewards people for polluting...and its a big mystery why those who are most rewarded denigrate the value of preserving the environment we thrive on...and most people are co-opted into this.

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

Wow, SIGNUPTAC, your energy is powerful and forceful--I hear where you're coming from because, yes, it's true that even the concept of God has been corrupted by its institutionalization. It was co-opted by the hierarchy. Still, if you deconstruct your last statement (while I totally understand the source of your frustration), the demand to end god expresses a hegemony of its own. We have to understand that we cannot declare an end to certain ideas. We can only engage in dialogue and seek the truth, without retreating into our own self-righteous corners. Isn't asserting an end to god just a different brand of authoritarianism and fundamentalism, maybe the mirror image of that which you're trying to end? I hope we can all humble ourselves as we move forward. Let's work toward transformation, not just change.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I'd imagine that some of the occupiers would appreciate what i wrote, and maybe others would not. Meant no harm, meant to praise them and wish them well.

[-] 0 points by steven2002 (363) 2 years ago

Fight the cops, show them we mean business. Support the movement, it's time to show what you are made of.

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

Nonviolence is the only way to combat an essentially violent system. I sincerely hope that you study this report. Don't we have thousands of years of evidence that no lasting change has be born out of violence?

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

http://www.nonviolenceinternational.net/seasia/whatis/book.php?style=pfv Nonviolence is the only way to combat an essentially violent system. I sincerely hope that you study this report. Don't we have thousands of years of evidence that no lasting change has be born out of violence?

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

Donny: Are these the Nazis, Walter?

Walter Sobchak: No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of.

[-] 1 points by Pegi (1) 2 years ago

Nazis are fascists, fascists are not socialists. Fascism is at the extreme end of the right wing spectrum, while communism is at the is at the extreme end of the left wing spectrum. Lesson over.

PS: extreme thinking at either end never turns out well.

[-] 1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

Fascism is at the extreme LEFT. Right wing beliefs emphasize individual liberty and small government; the extreme right wing is anarchy.

Left wing beliefs emphasize a strong government and the subordination of individual liberty to the collective. Aka "control freaks".

[-] 0 points by FreeMarskeet (10) 2 years ago

Define Fascism

1: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

We see left wing as the expansion of government and it makes no difference whether it is from the bottom up or the top down, it is the incorporation with government that makes either side a tyrannical government and in the end the same intolerable evil.

Right wing is little to no government the extreme would be anarchy.

Define Conservatism

1: a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing established institutions, and preferring gradual development to abrupt change; specifically : such a philosophy calling for lower taxes, limited government, regulation of investing, a strong national defense, and individual financial responsibility for personal needs.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conservatism?show=0&t=1321250072

Define Anarchy

1: absence of government

2: a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchy

[-] -1 points by stevo (314) 2 years ago

UPDATE: 5:25pm : Protesters shrieking like little bitches calling for mommy after getting arrested

[-] -1 points by dessert567 (5) 2 years ago

All OWS camps are going to be defeated just as this one. I suppose that OWS is not the revolution I had hoped for.

Oh well. Maybe next year....

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

What is the value of a revolution? It only brings us back to where we began. If we want to fundamentally change how things are done and the systemic corruption, we have to be both ardent and intelligent. No immediate sense gratification! Sacrifice is a must.

[-] 2 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

Though we are facing a crisis that seems to demand anything but patience, we must be patient, keep our heads, and open our hearts. We must examine our lives and consider how the way in which we have lived has contributed to the system we wish to change. We are, unfortunately, all complicit. Few of us can claim that the way in which we live is pure and not a part of the problem. Sacrifice, serious contemplation of our own need for personal change, refraining from objectifying and dehumanizing those who oppose us will move us forward. All else is illusion and illusory.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

Dessert is a hater because he/she was conditioned to think that he/she is where he/she is because of her/his superiority to everyone else. at least that is my opinion.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Yes, but it begs the question, what makes them feel this way and what would does one rightfully point to when they want to offer evidence of this? Ones hatred does not make one intrinsically superior, its a sign of weakness and insecurity, right?

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

yes sir/mam. I believe when people sense danger but have no idea where said danger emanates from, they pontificate about its origin. The danger they sense is the eroding of the middle class. the anxiety, coupled with the pundits' diagnosis and prognosis, makes them lash out. just a thought from the bottom rung...

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

You are kinder then me, as I suspect it's as simple as jumping on the bandwagon of what they perceive to be the winning team. It's petty and callow, but it is key not to be bogged down by ignorance.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

i'm not that stupid, as to jump on a bandwagon, so i have a hard time believing others are.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

What does intellect have to do with it? Intelligent people do misguided things, as we are often guided by irrational motives. I don't think anyone is intrinsically "stupid" for not falling in line, indeed, there are usually better rewards when one does...but only in the short term and when the gains are only met by others' losses, it has to be admitted that it simply does not work.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

irrational motives are misguided motives and their accumulation have an adverse effect on the rational. Chasing short term gains at the expense of the environment in which those gains are made is irrational. especially if it is your children you chase those gains for.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Yep! But our economic system is designed so that people do not, by and large, have too many choices...just a lot of expenses and less and less time...its not good for the soul.

[-] -1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

Message to participants in the Occupy movement:

In my new article ”The Transition Phase: The Road To Freedom” posted on my blog I share my thoughts on what to expect and what we should watch out for in the transition to freedom. Police brutallity is something we have to expect and I explain how we should deal with it.I also share my ideas as to what to do In general in order to achieve freedom and democracy. Please check it out. Thanks SFF

[-] 1 points by protest (43) 2 years ago

I think the majority of the people who support OWS do not support the goal of worker takeovers. If that is the real ultimate goal of this movement, why not express this in the "About" section? Make it clear.

Perhaps the originators of this movement have one goal in mind, while the vast majority of the participants just want corruption of government addressed. A correction, not a tear down.

They have joined simply because they want the influence of corporate money removed from our government. They want accountability. They want a restoration of the regulations that have been dismantled.

It bothers me when people hide their real intentions.

The about section only states: "#ows is fighting back against the corrosive power of major banks and multinational corporations over the democratic process, and the role of Wall Street in creating an economic collapse that has caused the greatest recession in generations."

This is something many Americans would support. However they would not support anarcho-syndicalism.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

Its just my personal opinion, I dont speak on behalf of anyone. I think my arguments for a.syndicalism is good, so I hope more people will eventually agree with me. Thanks for thought and criticism

[-] 1 points by protest (43) 2 years ago

I understand. Everyone has a right to their opinions and views. Is it my misunderstanding that the originators of this movement have anarcho-syndicalism as the ultimate goal? (Red/Black/Fist/Direct Action)

I just wonder if perhaps there should be separate protests where the goal is more along the lines of reversal of Citizen's United, campaign finance reform, accountability, regulation ect and those who have anarcho-syndicalism in mind.

What do you think? Because the ultimate goal is not the same.

I'm just trying to make a point that the goal should be clear so people really know what they are protesting for instead of hidden in symbolism.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

"Is it my misunderstanding that the originators of this movement have anarcho-syndicalism as the ultimate goal?"

I have not seen any polls or research on where most people involved in the Occupy movement stand political so I can´t answer that. I guess there are many different opinions, but It seems to me that many tend to lean towards libertarian left.

"What do you think?"

Its up to the people involved to decide where to go from here.

"I'm just trying to make a point that the goal should be clear so people"

I partially agree with this. I also talk about this in my article.

" ..really know what they are protesting for instead of hidden in symbolism"

I dont think theres anything hidden. The movement is still young. We must be patient and let the movement find out what the next steps should be. In my article I discribed my personal opinion as to what those should be

[-] 0 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

"However, in stage III, the movement and its supporters can now start fighting back with violence if necessary. There´s really nothing controvercial about that - It´s only self defense. It´s just defending democracy. There will most certainly be owners and wealthy people who despertaly wants to fight violently in an attemt to maintain their wealth and power. It will then be necessary to use force, and if necessary violent self defense in order to maintain the course that the majority wants." (Caps are to distinguish my thoughts from the quote from your blog). STUDY HISTORY, MY FRIEND. NO LASTING REVOLUTION RESORTS TO VIOLENCE, NOT AT PHASE ONE, PHASE TWO, OR PHASE 103. WE ARE WORKING FOR TRANSFORMATION, NOT JUST CHANGE. "BE THE CHANGE YOU WISH THE WORLD TO BE." MAHATMA GHANDI Please consider the article I've enclosed for a new outlook on methods. Thanks for your energy and willingness to sacrifice, but you would just be perpetuating the violence you seek to end by resorting to violence. To quote someone in this article--it may have ben Ghandi, "The means don't justify the ends--the means are the end. The means, the process, it all has to be consistent with the values you hope to promote. Peace http://www.nonviolenceinternational.net/seasia/whatis/book.php?style=pfv

[-] 0 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

(answer above)

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by Sharpie933 (20) 2 years ago

The patchouli ran in the streets after the cops moved in. It was tragic.

[-] 2 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Your cliches about activism are dated. Why you gotta hate? What's in it for you, really?

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

I hope you're working for the change you think is necessary through your own positive action, rather than spending your time taking potshots at the opposition. If you are going to contribute to this discussion, please make substantive comments that express your point of view. Be willing to engage with others rather than make wise cracks. We're all in this together. Someone will listen to you and respond--I hope--courteously.

[-] 0 points by Sharpie933 (20) 2 years ago

I hate for the same reasons you throw water bottles and yell FUCKING PIGS!!! That's hate. I am not in this with you guys. I grew up in a generation of freedom, where I was allowed to play outside, where I could climb a tree and use a knife. I didn't have an Xbox or an iPod or the internet so I had to go the library and read. You guys can smoke weed and twitter yourselves into oblivion. I'm just trying to steer clear of the mess you are making,

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

So you've witnessed this abuse? I don't approve of violence of any sort, and I don't think you should assume that the folks writing here do either. I wonder what your sources are. There will always be people who lose control, but the movement defines itself as nonviolent, and I think that's the only strategy that will win. I hope every child has a chance to experience the kind of childhood you had, because that's healthy. But I feel as though you're making huge assumptions about who makes up these protests. It's the old, the young, the middle-aged, the poor, the middle class. Pay attention to the message and decide whether you agree with that. There will always be people who detract from the message because of their lack of self-control like those in the Tea Party who are Birthers or racists. We need to pay attention to the message and the abuses of those in powers rather than judging so harshly the people who are trying to raise their voices against them. They are not the enemy.

[-] 0 points by Sharpie933 (20) 2 years ago

That may be true. But from the vast majority of videos I have seen available on the Internet, uploaded by people from all over, I don't see (much) middle-aged or middle class people at these functions. I see the same people who used to keep me up nights at the drum circle in college. I see opportunists trying to feed their own egos by speaking their thoughts on life over a megaphone. I see North Face and Columbia jackets, the same type that 99% of the world's population could not afford in a year's of work. I see iPhones. I see iPads. I see digital cameras. I see children of entitlement asking for more and more on the backs of everyone else. I see people barking orders at police officers like they were their slaves. The guy working three jobs to make ends meet? He's not there. He's at work. And he's probably not going to be able to make it home to his family because a bunch of over privileged punks want to have a get together, and feel they should be able to whenever and wherever they please, no matter what the cost to others is.

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

While what you see may be true, you're still not addressing the fundamental message. Don't shoot the messenger: our democracy is being corrupted by monied interests and the banks got away with fraud and theft and haven't been held accountable. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

[-] 0 points by Sharpie933 (20) 2 years ago

Do you know how you hold banks accountable? You make sure regulations are in place. You make sure people who are for deregulation are not allowed to be voted in. The reason they got away with it is because no one votes anymore or gives a crap. You vote in a guy because he's against gay marriage, you take out a subprime mortgage with no job, you get ripped off. That's what happens. And when those same people see the same things I do, when your organization is represented as the alternative, they will be in droves at the voting booth waiting to vote for the next guy wearing an American flag pin and yelling how much he hates hippies and commies.

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

As long as elections can be bought it will be awfully difficult to elect responsible legislators who are in favor of reinstating and strengthening regulations. I really do respect the points you are making, however. I think I understand where you're coming from.

[-] 0 points by Sharpie933 (20) 2 years ago

I was very sympathetic to the cause when it began. I think in the beginning it achieved what was needed, a national dialogue about finance and related issues in this country. But I'm telling you by this point you are only helping the other side. In the upcoming 2012 elections, how many times do you think the GOP will bring up OWS any time finance reform is mentioned? The GOP is left with scare tactics to get elected. And by now OWS has become the boogeyman they've been looking for.

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

I sure hope not. I have to have more faith in people than that. Isn't it possible that there is a tipping point? People have been manipulated for so long, and I think that those in power have gone far enough that people are waking up, connecting the dots, and connecting with one another. "You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one." It is truly nice to "talk to you, Sharpie. We just have to keep talking to our neighbors, both those who agree, and those who don't, and refuse to retreat into passivity. I've said before in other conversations, what's overlooked in discussing this issue is our own complicity in creating the systems that now trap us. The point you made about seeing people and all of their stuff is a recognition of this point--we've trapped ourselves into thinking we need things we don't need, and our comfort has become more important than our liberty. Actually human suffering caused by colonialism, imperialism, corporate adventurism and exploitation is not a recent problem, but now that people who are used to being comfortable and secure are feeling threatened, they're more willing to examine and question the way in which the economic and political systems work against them. While everyone was concerned about and expecting upward mobility and the status quo, they weren't too interested in how lobbyists had more influence in Washington than they did, or how deregulation of our financial system would create instability that would end up robbing them. Oh, I could go on, but I've run out of energy for now. Again, thanks for talking to me.

[-] -1 points by steven2002 (363) 2 years ago

Occupy Denver should stand up and fight the police. The cops have no legal right to remove these people. They need to start standing up for their rights.

[-] -1 points by LarryBudMelman (55) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I authorize deadly force.

[-] 4 points by enlightened (177) 2 years ago

The only thing you are capable of authorizing is deadly stupidity

[-] -1 points by talkinboutarevolution (54) 2 years ago

Why are there ads for The Wall Street Journal on this video?

[-] -1 points by FreeMarskeet (10) 2 years ago

hahahaha that's funny shit

[-] 2 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 2 years ago

That's great. Please click on their ads. It costs them money the more people click. They pay by the click.

[-] -2 points by justaguy (91) 2 years ago

They did ask them to leave the area. The folks decided not to comply.

The result is what we have here. Anyone think it was going to end some other way?

I am sorry to tell you this, but in a big picture concept of the money in politics and such, people are in agreement; with the camping in public areas that keep the residents of those cities from using those spaces, people are NOT in agreement on.

Saying the 99% stuff does not make it so.

I would love to see rallies and marches that got tens of thousands marching on Washington. Instead the planned marches are at the behest of SEIU and the other national unions and left organizations who don't like Verizon.

THAT for sure turns people off. Believe it or not, most of the country does not like the unions. They are bankrupting cities and states and people know this and this co-opting of OWS by the unions will end this whole thing.

Rachel Maddow and Ed Schultz of MSNBC will be happy for the unions taking over, but not even sorta in anyones dream do the 99% want this.

[-] 2 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

I'm interested in the point you make about the majority of people not liking unions. I wonder why, #1 you have that impression, and #2, what makes those people reach that conclusion. Think of the history of labor in this country when workers didn't have a 40 hour work week, were paid nothing, had no health insurance benefits, and worked in unsafe factories--this was the workers' reality before collective bargaining, unions and labor laws. Are we better off without unions? What's the alternative? Are workers who slave in 3rd world sweatshops better off without unions. I wonder where you're coming from, Justaguy(love your name). If you like movies, you might be interested in the movie, Matewan, about coalminers who tried to form a union in the 20's. It's an eye-opener.

[-] 1 points by freeows (84) 2 years ago

Well said, well said. Not only that, in our own American history, during the child labor dark time, children were legal to work many hours like adults. 1832 New England unions condemn child labor. 1836 Early trade unions propose state minimum age laws. Let's go back and review our own labor movement history, and never forgot the struggles we went through. http://www.continuetolearn.uiowa.edu/laborctr/child_labor/about/us_history.html

[+] -4 points by Frankie (733) 2 years ago

Yup. Most of the crew here have delusions of grandure as far as this representing a "movement."

[-] 3 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

"Grandeur" can't help it: I'm an English teacher.

[+] -6 points by FreeMarskeet (10) 2 years ago

Anybody else watching to see some hippies get fucked up

[-] 1 points by Vooter (441) 2 years ago

No, actually, I'm waiting to see some Denver police widows. Now THAT would be funny....

[-] 0 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

That is about as funny as you believing you are intelligent.

[-] -1 points by Kickinthenuts (212) 2 years ago

Wow vooter. You are a sick guy. Get a job, earn some income, you'll become less bitter.

[-] 1 points by Vooter (441) 2 years ago

I'm not bitter. I just don't like high school grads who strap on a gun and a badge and think they're tough...

[-] 0 points by Kickinthenuts (212) 2 years ago

Soooo, because you don't like them, you'd murder them? And, you find that funny? I see you don't dispute you are sick, just that you aren't bitter....

[-] -3 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

I am wanting to but have a lot going on tonight. You will always be able to catch some good videos on liveleak.com afterwards though.

[-] 2 points by Vooter (441) 2 years ago

You and Jerry Sandusky have a little sleepover planned?

[-] 0 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

No, I am actually working hard on my college work so one day I can get an even better job. Dedication and hard work is how you get it done.

[-] 2 points by ThisIsIt (3) 2 years ago

You, sir Dio1313, are so...typical. Have fun being a wage slave. We're out here starting a revolution, I already graduated college and work in a huge business, it doesn't mean much, I'd rather work and live a life that I enjoy, instead of being focused on obtaining a "better" job for more money. Cause, you know, that's what it's all about right? Money. Until this entire infrastructure comes crashing down with the atmosphere as it shatters from over abundant CO2 emissions that are produced by all the insanely rich fossil fuel corporations that run the god damn world. You see, it is a foolish, naive thing to think that Occupy people are less than you are, which you do, which actually makes you less than them. By condemning the actions of others before you even try to understand that they are targeting the great enemy of us all, you place yourself in a terrible position that you will either one day hopefully change or be forced into changing when nations begin erupting in riots because people are finally waking up to the fact that MONEY and the PURSUIT of MORE MONEY/POWER will always lend itself to an endlessly corrupt circuit that will surely kill us all one day, by literally raping our environment to death or by causing mass wars over property, especially as more and more people are born into the world and the population begins to exceed that which the earth can't handle in the lopsided way that it is run now.

You are entitled to an opinion, but I'll be damned if some people never seem to learn even when the truth is staring them right in their fucking eyes.

[-] 0 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

You’ll get over it.

[-] 1 points by ThisIsIt (3) 2 years ago

Get over what? I'm not mad. I'm not blaming you. I'm simply sitting here laughing at your ignorance.

[-] 0 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 2 years ago

Wow! You have really swallowed the whole marxists propaganda program hook line and sinker! I would suggest you have no concept of so called "truth".

[-] 1 points by ThisIsIt (3) 2 years ago

What the hell is a Marxist Propaganda Program? I don't follow these "marxist" or "socialist" ideas, I believe in the basic truth of humanity working together for a better future. Seems like that's too hard for you two to understand.

[-] 0 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

I know that hard work and dedication pay off, and that standing around in the street acting an ass gets you nowhere.

[+] -6 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

Time for you guys to clear out so we can clean up your mess and then allow the police officers to get back to their duties of fighting crime instead of babysitting.

[-] 6 points by Vooter (441) 2 years ago

I don't remember seeing any police officers arresting any Wall Street criminals. Which makes the police criminals, too. Tiocfaidh ar la, bitch...

[+] -4 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

Such intelligence, no wonder people want you guys to leave.

[-] 4 points by Vooter (441) 2 years ago

But we won't, little man. Count on it. The party's OVER... :-)

[-] -3 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

Sounds like it is, now go to work.

[-] 3 points by Vooter (441) 2 years ago

Oh, we'll go to work all right... :-)

[-] -2 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

Accomplishing nothing more than being a dumb thug it sounds like.

[-] 3 points by Vooter (441) 2 years ago

Accomplishment is in the eye of the beholder, sweetheart...

[-] -2 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

Are you a woman or are you gay? If you are gay I do not care, just want to point out that your flirting will get you nowhere if you are not female.

[-] 2 points by Vooter (441) 2 years ago

LOL...don't worry--I'm definitely NOT flirting....

[-] -2 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

Just trying to throw in a little comic relief, everyone here is so tense and serious :-)

[-] 2 points by adamanto75 (9) 2 years ago

your the one that was so tense and serious, being so critical of people trying to actually do something different than..

Hypothetical Conversation

Person 1: Oh hey whats up man?

Person 2: You know same shit different day.

Person 1: Yea I hear ya

This is stopping the monotony now tell me what is wrong with that????!!!??!?!?!

Ok maybe they are wasting tax money or whatever dumbass argument people bring up.....

Well come up with a list of things that are also a waste of our tax money that we DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT!!!! That the government state & fed. do without concern for what we think. How much does an f16 fighter jet cost us in tax money??? How much do all these chemical warfare viruses that our government are creating cost? How bout these unmanned drone planes in afghanistan??? How bout the fucking Environmental Protection Agency (claiming to protect the environment when all they do is drive around in gas guzzling trucks arresting people for swimming in an unauthorized swimming zone).....

If people actually want to complain about wasting our tax money... Find something that is actually a waste of it... Because the tax money that is being wasted on the police or the occupiers or whatever else these bigots on the media want you to focus on..... The cost of all these is NOTHING!!!!!!! compared to the costs of things that we REALLY WASTE OUR TAX MONEY ON!!!

I am so tired of hearing people talk about wasting our tax money on illegal immigrants, occupiers, or people who use drugs on welfare...... The REALITY CHECK: is that those costs are nothing compared to the costs of the Iraq War the EPA, CIA, ATF, DEA, IRS, Afghanistan War, and plus all the other weapons and technology our government develops and uses. I'm sorry but the reason why our country is in debt is not because of illegal immigrants, or people on wellfare, or the occupiers. It is because we have been at war all the time, there is no point in OUR history where this country wasn't in war WASTING OUR TAX DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FUCK!!!!!!

[-] -1 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

adamanto75, Whoa dude relax. You have a vein bulging in your forehead right now don't you?

[-] 4 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Why do you live in the United States of America, where Democracy is the ideal? How dare you denigrate the people who are right to demonstrate that systemic inequality and corruption are hurting and depriving so many people! What on earth do you have to gain from this? Absolutely nothing, that is what.

[+] -4 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

I could almost see the tear rolling down your face :-( Give it up and go home. Quit making a nuisance of yourselves and wasting people’s time.

[-] 5 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Oh, and what is wrong with tears? Do you not emote or are you so ashamed of yourself that you must deny your own humanity?

[+] -4 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

Your comment was writen as if you were so sad that you were crying. I thought that was funny. No need to try and make it about "shame or humanity", I just thought it was funny that you were crying.

[-] 3 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Is that because you enjoy other people suffering?

[-] 1 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 2 years ago

They are psychopaths, not need to argue w. them. Read about them in Dr. Robert Hare's books. Google Robert Hare.

[-] -2 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

Just you.

[-] 2 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Ah, your dialogue is as trite as it is ignorant. It is curious that you check into this forum, clearly you are concerned on some level.

[-] -2 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

Actually, I was initially here to find out if any of you were smart, and was pleasantly surprised that quite a few of you can actually come across as intelligent. There for a while I thought you guys might actually accomplish something. However, there are too many videos of the stupid ones, and of infiltrators, completely ruining it for you guys. Instead of spending time standing around or posting, the smart ones need to figure out how to maintain your positions without hindering the daily lives of people who are just trying to get to work or get their kids to school. The biggest issue you guys should be working on is how to quit looking so stupid on video. I understand the stupid ones are not the ones who came up with this idea, but they are the ones that are ruining it for you. You guys are doomed to fail with such bad publicity. Shut it down, get the intelligent ones together, and come up with a better plan.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Let us meet up, how about?

[-] -1 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

Notice how you are quick to be violent, and that people actually voted this up? Notice how I responded to your other post with a "common sense" answer and it is getting voted down? Being violent and not using common sense will definitely bring failure.

[-] -2 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

I have wasted too much of my time on you guys already.

[-] 1 points by Frizzle (520) 2 years ago

Why are you wasting time on telling people what they are allowed to do anyways?

[-] 3 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

I am at home and I have a hunch you wouldn't be so glib if you had to do it in person:) No tears running down this face, sweet pea.

[-] -1 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

That is funny. Now give it up and go home.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

Give what up, exactly?

[-] -2 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

Geeze, do I have to explain everything to you people?

[-] 3 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

NO, just to me.

[-] 1 points by Shashadynasty (-1) 2 years ago

I used to walk these streets turning tricks before these cock-blockers showed up. I made about $600 per night. These bastards have to get lost so I can start turning tricks again.

[-] 1 points by Turtle (268) 2 years ago

Will you be at the 5:00 P.M. Monday meeting and press conference for dsigruntled small-business owners who operate business interests near Zuccotti Park? I thnk it would add pizzazz...

[-] 0 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

I wish you luck :-)