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Retribution Against the Financial Elite!

CUNY Protests Happening Now

Posted 2 years ago on Nov. 28, 2011, 5 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

Inside of a barricaded meeting at Baruch College (24th and Lexington Ave), the City University of New York Board of Trustees is voting to raise tuition at the school. Outside, hundreds of Occupy CUNY students and their supporters are chanting, "Education is a right, Fight! Fight! Fight!"

Students are asking all supporters to join them at Baruch College until 8PM this evening.

Following the lead of student protesters opposing tuition hikes and austerity measures, today has been called as a student strike and day of action in solidarity with the protesters at the University of California-Davis who faced severe police repression while expressing their right to free speech. CUNY has already implemented force against students who are fighting back against tuition hikes before.

The proposal to call for a strike was passed by a massive general assembly at UC-Davis in an effort to shut down campuses where the UC Regents' were scheduled to vote today on austerity measures there:

In the midst of the economic crisis, the Regents have intensified their pursuit of the project of privatization and de-funding that diminish the quality of education and quality of life for those across the UC, while consigning students’ futures to greater and greater sums of debt.

The Regents’ theft of an ostensibly public resource to fund “capital projects” such as construction projects and private research initiatives, demonstrate a clear conflict of interests that benefits a narrow administrative elite—both the Regents and their local appointees (chancellors and vice chancellors)—at the expense of the greater faculty, staff, and student body.

The familiar rhetoric of austerity demands our resigned compliance, as our learning and working conditions progressively deteriorate. We have seen recently and in years past that political dissent is met with increasingly violent displays of force and repression by University police.

The continued destruction of higher education in California, and the repressive forms of police violence that sustain it, cannot be viewed apart from larger economic and political systems that concentrate wealth and political power in the hands of the few.

Over 100,000 people have already signed a petition asking for the resignation of UC-Davis Chancellor Ketahi, while the UC-Davis English Department has called for the disbandment of the UC-Davis police force over the incident.

update from comments: the rally is at 25th st, must enter at lex, you can't enter from 3rd ave unless you have id. the back door at 24th is heavily guarded and where the trustees enter and leave.

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56 Comments


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[-] 2 points by beck718 (3) 2 years ago

its amazing that we hike prices for colleges and demand that our young kids receive an education of a bachelor degree or a masters degree and then there is no jobs out there to be had and then they have to pay back a huge amount of loans within six months.

[-] 2 points by zootsuit (34) 2 years ago

the rally is at 25th st, must enter at lex, you can't enter from 3rd ave unless you have id. the back door at 24th is heavily guarded and where the trustees enter and leave.

[-] 1 points by zoe (67) 2 years ago

thanks! added to article.

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[-] 1 points by DaAscendingOracle (13) 2 years ago

"We have it in our power to start the world over again" - The moral and political thought of Thomas Paine

Occupy Manifesto Suggestion...

"Independence is my happiness and view things as they are without regard to person or place. The world is my community and my religion is to do good." - Thomas Paine

Objectives:

a) Remove political influence of power and money from the government.

* Corporations are not people and the government is by the people for the people.

b) Adopt a policy of sideways economics as opposed to trickle up & trickle down economics.

* Identify business globally that are reputable and believe in the moral values of the Occupy movement and encourage the people and businesses to trade with each other as opposed to trading with the corporate and global powers that represent the 1%. This is sideways economics, keep the money within the circle of the 99% and refuse to trade or do business with any entities that lie within the circle of the 1% or trade with the 1%. Afterall, money talks and if we stop giving the 1% our money they will either adopt new standards OR they will feel the effects of lower profits.

c) Hold politicians accountable

* Assign a task force designed specifically to track and reports all votes on legislation & campaign contributions.

d) Commit to vote.

* If you will not vote, you should not be a part of the Occupy movement. Voting should not be based on party affiliation but based on the ideals and values of the Occupy Movement. Revert back to the above recommended manifesto as the foundation for the ideals and values.

e) Religion and the 1%

* Do not be afraid to question the influence of religion and the cover it provides many who are both in government and outside of government to push forward agenda items aimed towards the manipulation and control of the 99%.

This is 5 point start, a good foundation that will create on-ramps directly to the heart f the problem and gives a united theme for how to create a specific message.

Thomas Paine was considered treasonous by the founding fathers because of his view on the moral good. As an african-american, I find it ironic that a man who in the very beginning was against slavery was run out of the country simply because he believed that 'All men are truly created equal' & 'Separation of church and state is necessary in order to have a government of the people by the people.'

At the end of the day, the Occupy Movement is about justice.

http://www.religionpaine.org/article_bisheff01.html

[-] 1 points by BlowTorch (6) 2 years ago

Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction and that certainly fits the situation now seen at the highest levels of power in Western civilization. In essence, the story is that the true source of power in the West, control of the financial system, fell into the hands of fanatical religious cultists who wanted to artificially make the prophecies in an ancient religious text (the Torah or Old Testament), come true. This fraud-based is enterprise is now falling apart. The result is unprecedented chaos at the highest levels of power in the sect-controlled governments of the United States, England, France, Italy, Germany and their slave states. One of the immediate triggers is a lawsuit that was filed in New York on November 23rd, claiming the assets of the global financial system belong to the people of the planet and not a powerful religious cult that uses the United Nations as a façade.

[-] 1 points by beck718 (3) 2 years ago

The people who say OWS go home, open your eyes and ears to the many atrocities that have been done for many years. Oh yea and the statement that they need to get a real job, that is a real kicker...here we go, there are not many jobs to be had out there and an education doesn't guarantee you shit, but debt. Why is it that people who stand up and try to fight a system that is obviously corrupt, get pushed back still by some of the same people that are getting screwed daily. mind boggling

[-] 1 points by TruthDivision (0) from Terrebonne, QC 2 years ago

Living on Borrowed Time ~ http://www.youtube.com/truthdivision

[-] 1 points by stevenkwang2000 (0) 2 years ago

Let us expose CUNY and Dr. Peter M. Bookstein: to see how much taxpayer’s money become criminal money, to see how much tuition become criminal money, to see what criminal action they did, to see what criminal trade they did. A student of the City University of New York is attacked by radiation weapon (You can type “Directed Energy Weapon” in Google to get information of this kind of weapon). The guy public his situation. But the radiation weapon attackers collude with the City University of New York. They produce a conspiracy: The CUNY let the guy come to Wellness Center of CUNY to talk. There the City University of New York called the 911 for Police and EMS to send the guy to the Emergency Room of the Bellevue Hospital and the guy was locked in the mental hospitals for two years. The City University of New York concocted the guy took off clothes and etc. Actually the guy did not do that. One of main operators in this event is Dr. Peter M. Bookstein. In Bellevue Hospital the guy planed to go to court to get out of hospital. Then a man who was not in the treatment group and not in that department either (maybe he did not belong to Bellevue Hospital too) came to the hospital negotiated with the guy: If the guy accepts he has mental ill, they will not only let the guy continue studying in the CUNY but can also find a job for this guy. The guy did not agree this agreement. Then the man said: later you will regret my offering price! On 2003 the weapon attackers produced a car accident for the guy and the car was totally lost. The guy wanted to keep his car for investigation but the weapon attackers did not want him to tow his car back and keep it. Then the weapon attackers colluded with the City University of New York again: Made a trade with the guy: The City University of New York gave the guy a check (Description is: Construction Fund Fee Income Account, and amount is: $2435.00) and increased financial aid for that guy also.
Email: exposeCUNY@gmail.com

[-] 1 points by stevenkwang2000 (0) 2 years ago

Let us expose CUNY and Dr. Peter M. Bookstein: to see how much taxpayer’s money become criminal money, to see how much tuition become criminal money, to see what criminal action they did, to see what criminal trade they did. A student of the City University of New York is attacked by radiation weapon (You can type “Directed Energy Weapon” in Google to get information of this kind of weapon). The guy public his situation. But the radiation weapon attackers collude with the City University of New York. They produce a conspiracy: The CUNY let the guy come to Wellness Center of CUNY to talk. There the City University of New York called the 911 for Police and EMS to send the guy to the Emergency Room of the Bellevue Hospital and the guy was locked in the mental hospitals for two years. The City University of New York concocted the guy took off clothes and etc. Actually the guy did not do that. One of main operators in this event is Dr. Peter M. Bookstein. In Bellevue Hospital the guy planed to go to court to get out of hospital. Then a man who was not in the treatment group and not in that department either (maybe he did not belong to Bellevue Hospital too) came to the hospital negotiated with the guy: If the guy accepts he has mental ill, they will not only let the guy continue studying in the CUNY but can also find a job for this guy. The guy did not agree this agreement. Then the man said: later you will regret my offering price! On 2003 the weapon attackers produced a car accident for the guy and the car was totally lost. The guy wanted to keep his car for investigation but the weapon attackers did not want him to tow his car back and keep it. Then the weapon attackers colluded with the City University of New York again: Made a trade with the guy: The City University of New York gave the guy a check (Description is: Construction Fund Fee Income Account, and amount is: $2435.00) and increased financial aid for that guy also.
Email: exposeCUNY@gmail.com

[-] 1 points by StopItNow2012 (0) 2 years ago

its time we teach cuny a lesson - to all cuny students take a semester off don't register for the next semester.

[-] 1 points by StopItNow2012 (0) 2 years ago

its time we teach cuny a lesson - to all cuny students take a semester off don't register for the next semester.

[-] 1 points by Kevmcc123 (0) from Queens, NY 2 years ago

Big rally in herald square Thursday dec 1st.... Thousands of people expected to attend!!!! Come support union workers!!!! Should be huge don't miss it !!!!! Herald square 34 and 6th!!!!

[-] 1 points by Kevmcc123 (0) from Queens, NY 2 years ago

4pm

[-] 1 points by yarichin (269) 2 years ago

I looked at the TV no one is covering this not even Free Speech TV or LINK. Not Fox, not CNN, not MSNBC The only place you can get information unfiltered is the internet. And that is in danger.

[-] 1 points by Thisisthetime (200) from Kahlotus, WA 2 years ago

Keep Changing and Focusing Attention on the 1%. Fair-ness.

[-] 1 points by AnonymousAmerican (15) 2 years ago

http://grimm.house.gov/press-release/rep-michael-grimm-ows-protesters-pack-and-get-out-nyc

On reading the above letter from Congressman Grimm, I am compelled by my sense of civic duty to call on Occupy Wall Street to add this "Representative" to the list of individuals whom we actively protest and to seek his immediate removal from office. No member of Congress can be allowed to mock the principles that allow a free society to exist and to defame the character of peaceable assemblers, speakers, and patriots who are risking their lives to improve and preserve life for all of humanity. These modern day American heroes are specifically protected under our Constitution. Congressman Grimm has violated his oath of office in writing these comments. He should be tried as a traitor. If we the People fail to uphold our Constitution and to demand accountability from our leaders, we will assure the downfall of our Nation.

[-] 1 points by SuzannahTroy (31) 2 years ago

Bravo. Also happening in West Village -- Amanda the People’s Burden -- the worst most evil city planner commissioner as usual refusing the People Zoning protection for St. Vincent’s so only a hospital could be built there. Watch this youtube and bravo to Cuny students. read on for what you heard and is the ugly truth.

http://youtu.be/yz8YRVeLwes Mayor Bloomberg Amanda Burden Stringer Quinn F-You to NYPD FDNY The People 9-11 & Now!

Click here for links! A must read!!!

Amanda the People's Burden green lights all zone busting corrupt deals for all her evil rich real estate magnate buddies.

Shameful. She could have given us zoning protection so only a hospital could be built where St. Vincent's was but of course she didn't and Scott Spineless Stringer rolled over for Rudin and Quinn can't stop counting the kick backs in terms of campaign donations.

Look up Amanda the People Burden's background. She is Cathie Black but worse. Most people evicted, moved, mass displacement since the American Indians. NYU, Columbia U, Cooper Union, NY Law all involved in corrupt community crushing development as well....

In the YouTube a retired NYPD told me before Occupy Wall Street evicted they needed to be evicted. He suggested to me that I was to be arrested for being a nuisance. I said I am protesting. Ever heard of the 1st Amendment.
Time to start doing Adrian Schoolcraft postings.

Google "Adrian Schoolcraft" NYPD whistleblower and guess his NYPD supervisors did to him. They now have a 20 million dollar lawsuit on their hands.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6276) 2 years ago

The Western societies are richer than ever. It´s a shame that we can´t have decent, free/affordable education for all.

We can, however, achieve this if we keep on fighting for a democratic and free society.

Noam Chomsky on where we go from here (at Occupy Boston)

Noam Chomsky: Alternatives to Capitalism

yours s. struggleforfreedom

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[-] -2 points by Horror (48) from Columbus, OH 2 years ago

Its funny how there are people asking for free education like they would use it, but then its clearly obvious the majority are not interested in learning anything or educating themselves. So can we have a free weed and opiate fund as well? I think the most important thing you can learn in school is that school slows learning down to a very very slow pace. Education is pretty close to free, paying for a diploma is not. Anyways k-12 is a scam and after 5th grade public daycare should be teaching college level classes. So everyone can win with this reform, except the corporations and criminal politicians who run this country. Good luck with getting on your knees begging for the cops and govt to stop robbing you and attacking you with chemical weapons.

[-] 2 points by alexrai (851) 2 years ago

Who needs a free weed and opiate fund? Last I checked you can grow poppies and pot plants for free.

Also, last I checked the governments of this world were spending billions and billions of dollars which could better be used for free education and healthcare to make sure their respective populations do not grow these plants.

How about we let people grow their favorite plants, and used the money saved for education?

[-] 1 points by JDub (218) 2 years ago

Its not so, its just that a lot of people feel that they want to be more secure, before trying to go to school. Instead of incurring huge debt for the possibility of a job after they graduate. There are those in society who never attempt to better themselves. But this movement is about the ability to choose without indebting yourself to a compassion-less corporate entity who thrives off of underprivileged members of society trying to make themselves and their loved ones a better life.

[-] 1 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

AND it is all about MONEY is it not???

How about an "OCCUPY MONEY" movement.

[-] 1 points by jhonel (23) from New York, NY 2 years ago

great idea! I say we empty out the banks. take all of the money you have in your bank account and close it !!

''I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.''- Thomas Jefferson.

[-] 2 points by charnipar123 (122) 2 years ago

Put into a credit union. You them become a member and collect divedends.

[-] 2 points by daveindenver (36) 2 years ago

Great idea, that is what is great about a free, open, capitalist society. You can have an impact by selecting who you do business with. If we had a socialist economic system you would only have one choice, usually very inept.

[-] 1 points by warbstar (210) 2 years ago

Jhonel noted the deadly nature of American banks in the statement, “…..will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.

It may interest you to find that there is a definite increase in deaths due to homelessness. The statistics only cover up to 2007. In the last four years, there has been a massive increase in homelessness that has yet to be tracked. We all know why there is a massive increase in homelessness. So, it follows that there is a significant increase in deaths.

http://www.usmayors.org/pressreleases/documents/hungerhomelessnessreport_121208.pdf

The article notes:

“Among cities reporting cutbacks, eighty percent reported a reduction in the quantity of food persons can receive at each food pantry visit; sixty percent reported having to turn people away due to lack of resources, and forty percent reported setting limits on the number of times persons could visit food pantries each month…..”

“….11 cities provided an estimate of unmet need. Among those cities, on average 20 percent of the demand for food assistance went unmet…..”

“…Of the 25 cities that responded to this year’s survey, 19 reported an increase in homelessness over the past year (83 percent), four cities reported a decrease (17 percent)….”

“…Among cities citing an increase, most attributed the increase to economic factors, including high unemployment and the lack of affordable housing….”

Who created the legal framework that resulted in Capitalism being used as a weapon against families? The 1% wrote and submitted the legal framework to Sen. Hatch and Sen. Phil Gramm in 1999 when they repealed the Glass-Stiegal act. There is no question but that Sen’s Hatch and Gramm knew and had foresight of what the final outcome would look like. They knew and intentionally passed this bill for bribes from lobbyists.

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/11/05/business/congress-passes-wide-ranging-bill-easing-bank-laws.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

The articles notes the following:

“…The opponents of the measure gloomily predicted that by unshackling banks and enabling them to move more freely into new kinds of financial activities, the new law could lead to an economic crisis down the road when the marketplace is no longer growing briskly. ''I think we will look back in 10 years' time and say we should not have done this but we did because we forgot the lessons of the past, and that that which is true in the 1930's is true in 2010….”

Finally, when a rise in homelessness occurs and there are massive food/medical shortages then there will be an increase in deaths.

[-] 0 points by shoesandtables (20) 2 years ago

***A video showing the "WEALTH GAP" in the United States - Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7tmZv1o5Ac

[-] 1 points by amoquetza (0) 2 years ago

There is a film showing tomorrow at the Thalia that will explore the issues of how neoliberalism has turned us into to serfs for rich people and why we must stop it now. Barbara Garson will be a speaker after the screening.

Let’s Make Money

Tuesday, Nov. 29 @ 7pm - Thalia - Q&A Barbara Garson activist and writer

"Let's Make Money is a dramatic and visual feast depicting the high flyers of global finance that fueled the economic meltdown juxtaposed powerfully with those around the planet who pay the price--the world's poor and struggling middle classes. The film follows the money--our money--as it travels through the global casino of financial markets and reckless speculation. Essential viewing for anyone who wants to understand the roots of the global financial crisis." Chuck Collins, Senior Scholar, Institute for Policy Studies, co-Author, The Moral Measure of the Economy Austria, 2008, 106min, in English and German with English subtitles, Erwin Wagenhofer, dir.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIi7WXE025w

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Hi shoes. Please and thank you anyway for the http: I just don't do http's

What I want to know is this:

  1. Have you plotted the WEALTH GAP from the founding of this country until today.
  2. Has that been converted into equivalent statistics.
  3. What was you findings?

This will provide a basis for your point, not "youtube", and we can proceed to discuss the problem as opposed to me just assuming that you recently found out that $1B or $1T is really a lot of money and you don't have it.

[-] 1 points by shoesandtables (20) 2 years ago

You can look at the historical Gini index figures. It's not about one billion or one trillion, it's about the gap or "difference", which was diminished from sometime around the 1940's to around 1980 -- but has increased again.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Do you think that there is any correlation between the fact that our governmental policies have withdrawn a significant % of our population into one or the other welfare states and locked them into that state (provided an anchor for the gap), while the top, by one means or another have moved upward with no cap on them.

I have not done a complete analysis of the problem but I would expect that the bottom anchor of the gap simply has been stagnate ( see reasons above) while the top continued to expand thus producing the increased gap that you see today. If this is not a correct assumption, please give me your point of view.

The next question therefore, becomes, which cultural model do you apply to this situation.

  1. Do you work to raise the bottom anchor.

  2. Do you work to tear down the top anchor

I worked for many years in a culture that took the 02 approach and I observed the results of that approach.

[-] -1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6276) 2 years ago

Yes, we desperatly need freedom

[-] 0 points by Jellow (5) 2 years ago

Education is natural. You are going to aquire education just by living. I would put it on the same level as eating. Do you eat a steak or a weeny? The steak cost mor than a weeny. Education is something you choose not a right. Now I do acknowledge that with the taxes we pay there is level where we can demand, but realize we paid for it in the begining.

[-] 0 points by SuzannahTroy (31) 2 years ago

OWS please be aware Christine Quinn Mike’s mini-me has suddenly and falsely turned on Mike Bloomberg to sue him on behalf of the homeless. http://mayorbloombergkingofnewyork.blogspot.com/2011/11/christine-quinn-hates-homeless-cruel-to.html read this and learn about intro 48 and abandoned buildings if you don’t already know and how Quinn ruled against it as well as banned the homeless group Picture the homeless who set up a table with you in Liberty Park from attending public City Council meetings. Norman Siegel famed Civil Rights lawyer also who stood up for you had to call Quinn’s lawyers at City Hall and explain the constitution to Quinn’s lawyers!

Christine Quinn must never be mayor of NYC she is Mike’s mini-me. Read the post. If you are not a democrat convert now so you can vote in the primary and vote against her, Stringer and Thompson. Stringer just ruled in favor of Bill Rudin’s condos where St. Vincent’s hospital was and Bill Thompson allowed NY Pensions to be raided and allowed City Time billion dollar fraud to go on and on. As soon as John Liu replaced him he shut down SAIC militray type with pentagon that was illegally billing us for services they did not deliver. Rudy brought in CityTime threw away AutoTime a payroll system created and run by City Workers to outsource. Than Bloomberg took it to an extreme along with other corrupt contracts like ECTP our 911 tech system over 2 billion, plus corrupt board of ed deals = largest white collar crimes ever and Christine Quinn brushed aside 2 investigations in to CityTime! Tax payers raped and robbed and no arrests of NYC gov officials just thousands of innocent OWS protestors!

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[-] 0 points by daveindenver (36) 2 years ago

Maybe they could ask the overpaid professors to take a pay cut to help reduce tuition costs?

[-] 1 points by uftscott (26) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

What overpaid professors? CUNY adjuncts don't even get health care. They make less than kindergarten teachers.

[-] 0 points by sguynn39 (2) 2 years ago

i would love to see where you are finding this "education is a right". a college education is a service. you have the right to read any textbook and study anything you want on your own. you do not, however, have a right to college education. that is a service, and arguing that it's a right is no different that arbitrarily deciding that landscaping or a gym membership are rights. you can cut your own grass and work out on your own, but claiming to you have a right to gaining those services from other people is asinine.

[-] 2 points by OneVoice (153) 2 years ago

Whether you want to call it a right, a privilege or whatever, the real fact is that higher education should be affordable to anyone who has the drive and ambition. In the mid 80s my brother graduated from Cornell with a $10,000 debt. He didn't finish school with a debt equal to a mortgage payment. In addition, SUNY and CUNY and even Cornell is subsidized with taxpayer money. That's why these young people deserve the "right" to continue with a higher education that is affordable. . Any public or private college that accepts public funding in any form which includes taxpayer supported grants should be obligated to provide an affordable education. Remember...I didn't say free..

[-] 2 points by KatieG (1) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Have you ever heard of something called the social contract. Education is a public good and the people in this society agree to pay taxes and abide by the governing rules inexchange for these so called services. This is what makes us productive as a society!

[-] 0 points by brett9897 (2) 2 years ago

Yes that is why we have free public libraries and free education until you are 18. By that point you should be able to learn for yourself. If you think having a teacher would be beneficial you can choose to pay for one. Every single book you read for a class exists in a library somewhere for free.

[-] 2 points by MDubbs (16) 2 years ago

I believe the government should guarantee a living wage for all individuals, whether it is in the form of subsidize housing, free healthcare, free education, higher paying labor jobs, or a combination of all, all human needs should be met before any individual can have the privileged to indulge in greed. So under this system the government assures that every American can achieve a minimum standard of living, and there is still incentive to work harder, because we all want shiny things. This my friends is called socialism, and it is good for America.

[-] 1 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

Define the "living wage". Is it similar to Welfare, Food Stamps and Medicaid? Or minimum wage? Where does the money come from? The President's "cache"?

[-] 1 points by OneVoice (153) 2 years ago

I'll define a living wage. A paycheck that has the ability to support a family and a modest size house of 1100 sq ft. with one bathroom. It provides the necessary ability to purchase groceries and cover transportation costs in addition to the mortgage payment. It also either provides a defined retirement plan or ,if not, a salary that allows a worker to save towards his own retirement. If the car breaks down or the water heater finally breaks down it allows the worker the ability to write a check to the car repairman or the plumber. If possible, but not necessary, an affordable one week vacation that isn't too far away and can be driven to. This living wage isn't a handout. It's not welfare or supported by food stamps. My definition of a living wage will be based on where I live. In southern NYS a living wage is probably $50,000-$60,000 per year depending on the retirement plan and health benefits. If you are self employed then you better be pulling at least $80,000 a yr. That right there is the basic living wage paycheck.

[-] 1 points by MDubbs (16) 2 years ago

I believe that Welfare, Food Stamps and Medicaid are band aid programs that offer relief from the very real problems of unemployment and poverty. In countries where there are stronger unions there are no need for minimum wage laws because laborers can make a living wage. This is because they keep more of the profit generated from their labor, and less goes to the employer. Of course stronger unions also seek to manipulate the government to their favor corporations do in America, but I believe this is more to the benefit of the civilian. There's a bill floating around that purpose was to deregulate unions, as to make it easier to unionize, and made it not obligatory, so that workers had a choice in whether to join or not once the institution was unionized. I believe laborers are the only people who actually produce anything to sell on foreign market, and we should really seek to build up our industrial sector. I think the real problem with this country is that there are no unskilled jobs that pay a living wage, and this can change, we just need to change the way we view labor. I would define living wage as the amount needed to afford a home, put food on the table, pay healthcare, and afford any other living expenses that are needs, and not wants. Even if this movement did manage to get money out of politics, the corporate class would take back all we fought for in a few centuries once everybody forgets the ideals of this revolution. I think unions serve as a de facto watch dog of democracy, when everybody goes back to drinking and watching the ball game on the weekend.

[-] 1 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

Would your plan call for something to level the cost of living nationally? Because a living wage that allows for all the things you asked for would differ from state to state. Cost of living comparisons show that Texas is number two on the list (1 being the lowest cost of living) while Florida is 34th and California is at the bottom of the list with one of the highest costs of living.

You state that in countries with stronger unions, there is no need for a minimum wage - yet it appears that there are few countries without one. Can you point out which countries with stronger unions you are referring to?

Union wages are not the same as what you refer to as a "living wage". A living wage - as I understand it - is something that its proponents want the Government to give to each person simply for existing with nothing required from the person in return for that income. Like you wrote, these supporters want an income granted that would pay for housing, utilities, health care and transportation before the person even puts forth an hour of work of any sort.

We agree that we need to return to a country that produces something rather than one that simply employs in a service industry manner. Many economists have been writing this for years but have been ignored through the apathy of the average citizen and the arrogance of our politicians.

Back to the living wage - this site gives a pretty good idea of the variances in what it costs to live in different counties within a state...

http://www.livingwage.geog.psu.edu/counties/12109

for example, St. Johns County in Florida is a large agricultural and tourist based county. According to this site, the lowest paid workers are those in the food prep and service industry; they make only $1 more than the "living wage" for a single adult . Yet, historically, that industry was filled by high school and college students who with education and work experience would move out of the industry as they aged. For example, a MacDonald's employee who stayed in the food industry may become a manager or move to a restaurant where tips supplemented their income. Many who work in tip based situations earn as much as 35,000 per year - which is more than the living wage required for an adult plus one child or two adults in that county. Or that person might move out of MacDonalds into a job that is sales related - which in this county has an average income $6.00 per hour more than that of those who work at MacDonalds.

I'm not sure if you understand the difference between what the "living wage" proponents are asking for (an income as a "right" simply for being born) and for strong unions where income and benefits are negotiated in return for mandatory fees taken out of ones earnings (a return for labor and protection provided by management level employees).

It is also important that it be understood that among those who work for an hourly wage, only 6% make at or less than minimum wage. Those who work for an hourly wage that are under 25 years old make up only 1/5th of the total but represent 1/2 of those who make minimum wage. Less than 5% of those 25 years and older make minimum wage. That is a result of work experience that leads to either raises or a change in job. And finally, the majority of those who make minimum wage work less than a full time work week....

[-] 1 points by MDubbs (16) 2 years ago

In Germany in particular their is no minimum wage, yet laborers can live off what they make. I just feel their should be a minimum standard of living for all people, and i also feel that people should be able to come out of high school, and get an industrial job that they can live on. I would prefer to have people getting fat off welfare, than shooting up my neighborhood and selling drugs in playgrounds. The minimum wage is not the living wage it was intended to be, mostly because the poverty line is way lower than the actual cost of living. In New Jersey it is near impossible to be independent unless you make about 40,000 a year, the reason college debt is so high is because it has become the only way to earn a wage good enough to feed a family. I've had friends who aborted their children simply because they couldn't raise a child in this economy. You should be able to work with a high school degree, and make enough money to raise a kid. I have friends who break there back in factories for 11 dollars an hour in New Jersey where the cost of living is very high, and still have trouble paying off their very modest sized house, with three working people in that home. I find it disgusting that fat cats on wall street get rich off our labor, while the American people are suffering. I have been fortunate and I count my blessings, but I am going to fight for change while there is still air in my lungs. There is power in a union, and only through a show of solidarity can the American people take this country back form the military industrial complex that has hijacked our government. Unions charge fee's but that goes to fighting for higher wages for workers, and buying politicians which has become the only way to work within the current system.

[-] 1 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

There are certain "branches" in Germany that have minimum wage and in fact, there is a movement to institute one...

http://working-in-germany.com/minimum-wage-germany-0179.html

You write of the cost of living in New Jersey. I took the liberty of using the site I linked above to see what the "living wage" is in that state. Since you didn't mention a county, I can't break it down to that level but the "living wage" for a single adult is $11.23 per hour so I assume that your friends who work in a factory make just about what is required for a single adult as a living wage. The site also lists the averagehourly income of those employed in "Production" - which factory work would fit into I believe - is $15.30 per hour.

I did a comparison on the "living wage" for New Jersey compared to Florida - what is interesting is the following for two adults and two children:

Florida $27.62 per hour New Jersey $33.00 per hour

Florida $57,451 annual income New Jersey $68,642.....

Why do New Jersey folk need a much larger annual income?

State Taxes Florida $487.00 State Taxes New Jersey $7,230.00

In light of that, is the fact that folks in certain states are finding it harder to make ends meet than others lies as much on the government which taxes us as it is on the corporations who employ us?

[-] 1 points by MDubbs (16) 2 years ago

I agree, the government needs to be made accountable to the people, but I also believe that once the government has been cleared of corruption, the economy should be made accountable to the people through the government. We need a system that works for middle America, not Corporate America. I don't profess to know exactly how this should be done. I feel that unions do a good job of watching out for working folks and we really should protect them from union busters.

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[-] 1 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

How do you get the time to partake in these studies, projects, and discussions needed to learn if you are at work all the time? Some books may be free, but food, shelter, health care, and time are not.

In fact, that is the whole point of lectures and classrooms. There simply isn't enough time for everyone to figure things out on their own, especially when people have to work. Lectures and classes speed up the process considerably because they help avoid the common pitfalls people face otherwise.

Extending your argument, why should free education services be available until age 18? Why not drop free education at age 16 or 14, because "every single book you read for a class exists in a library somewhere for free"?

[-] 1 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

While we're on the on topic of services and who pays for them, I hope you advocate that businesses pay for the education of their workers instead of dumping the costs on families and tax payers.

Highly educated individuals like scientists, researchers, etc. make extremely little compared to their actual productivity. In fact, just by comparing changes in worker productivity to changes in wages, you would find similar relations for just about every job.

If businesses are the primary beneficiaries of worker education, should they not be the primary source of providing the funds needed to educate the workforce?

[-] 1 points by Jaid0gz (7) 2 years ago

having knowledge and education by itself doesn't guarantee you a job, if anything it makes you look like less of a worker. If you state your education as 'having read books and done bookwork for 5 years' would that be as credential as having stated you attended a university? the answer is no, and if your argument was yes than sadly we'd have to live in an alternate universe.

[-] 1 points by bobkevin (13) 2 years ago

yes very true but it is unfair especially for a foreign student like me who's parents could barely afford the current tuition now and all of a sudden there is going to be an increase? I've taken many xenophobic comments like "go back to your country then" but i pay to be here. when i buy things i pay tax just like anybody else from the moment i got here. so if people want me out that bad then if they want to buy me a ticket i will gladly accept it and go. all im saying is that the chant might be wrong but i get where theyre coming from. many cant afford so what can they do? they cant just accept the increase like water under the bridge.

[-] 0 points by steveee (14) 2 years ago

First rational thing I have seen on this website

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[-] -1 points by freeusa (14) 2 years ago

OWS go home and get a real job! stop asking for hand out, we earn what we work for no matter how little it is. this the way life is take it or go start your own world on another island or something.

But low tuition is a must, otherwise how we can be better in the world like this. Student keep warm and peace , say what you need to say then go home and study to be better politician.

[-] -2 points by KRISWOLF (2) 2 years ago

Education is a right, Fight! Fight! Fight!" The party is over. These days you rather fight for your right to become bright OCCUPY ON THE MOVE

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