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We are the 99 percent

Police: Whom Do You Serve?

Posted 11 years ago on Nov. 19, 2011, 12:23 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

UC Davis Pepper Spray Incident

This incident took place at UC Davis. See below for video of this incident, as well as more examples of state repression against the 99% movement across the U.S.
*TRIGGER WARNING: Graphic images.

Such incidents are unfortunately common. Brutal repression has long been a daily reality for people of color, trans and queer people, criminalized drug users, sex workers, and other marginalized communities. But now that the 99% and the Occupy movement are standing up for social and economic justice, we all are subject to those same violent tactics of repression. How can the police protect and serve the public, when they repeatedly assault the public in the interest of the 1%? What exactly are the police defending -- our right to free speech and peaceful assembly, or broken financial and government institutions?

Riot police standing in front of Chase bank

Police officers that brutalize people fighting for democracy and against the tyranny of the 1% need to be brought to justice. We call on police to protect and serve by taking direct action to prevent the abuses of power by their fellow officers. More broadly, we call on police to work to end the criminal injustice system that profits from the systematic imprisonment and dehumanization of poor and working class people, queer and trans people, people of color and other marginalized groups. We call on all police officers to disobey illegal orders and follow the example Captain Raymond Lewis and others who stand proudly in solidarity with the 99%.

Captain Raymond Lewis being arrested

A few more examples of repression, from Los Angeles and Portland:

LAPD mobilizes riot squads to evict nonviolent civil disobedience in front of Bank of America plaza

Portland police pepper-spraying peaceful protester



Read the Rules
[-] 29 points by nimbus22 (106) from Chaska, MN 11 years ago

This is abuse. How can they get away with smiling and making a spectacle out of pepper spraying unarmed people who are sitting and posing no threat? This can't be legal. I can't believe this is allowed to continue. They have no right to abuse their power in such a fashion.

[-] 25 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 11 years ago

That policeman needs to be fired. We need to file a police brutality complaint.

Follow the Libyans and Egyptians. Front-line resistance should carry American Flags. Use a symbol that is dear to everyone to protect yourselves. See if they dare hit you when you are draped in the flag. And if they do, the rest of the nation will witness it.

Offer the police tiny replica flags. Whose country? Our country!

See these links below on how to help:



[-] 14 points by plainscott (79) from Bowling Green, KY 11 years ago

Agreed...this movement, and the free speech it embodies, is a very, very American thing. Why SHOULDN'T OWS activists carry the American flag?

[-] 4 points by rosewood (543) 11 years ago

There was an OWS protestor who carried an American flag and the cops tore the flag from him and wrestled him to the ground. Heavily indoctrinated , mind controlled cops don't care about the flag, the republic, the constitution nor the people. Only people who have never been on the front lines of protest think the flag stops police brutality...it doesn't.

[+] -5 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 11 years ago

seriously? mind controlled cops? who controls them, the masons? Xenu? shame shame shame on you for spreading vile rhetoric like this and not using your own brain. Cops serve their country like the military does, and both do the same thing; keep peace within or outside our borders. Is occupy new? sure is, haven't seen anything like it in 50 years. Are police departments still figuring out how to address it? Sure, just like Occupy is still figuring its own self out. Currently, cops are addressing the protests according to their training and policies, but Ill bet we see some of that change, since Occupy is a new animal and not like the usual 'riot'.
Only people who think of humans as animals think Police are anything but humans.

[-] 5 points by divineright (664) 11 years ago

Just like many professions, police work can paradoxically attract the best and worst of human beings (those with true desire to help and those desperate to feel powerful over others). What we need is better education for the good officers and greater accountability for the bad ones. We've seen enough of the bad examples since this has begun. Hopefully, those on the line out there are taking note and remembering their humanity.

[-] 3 points by trailertrash (13) 11 years ago

They should do more than remember. They should be aware of the fact that all of them will be judged as being the same as the worst of them. They stand and do nothing. They give up any claim to respect. They give up their honor.

[-] 1 points by velveeta (230) 11 years ago

what, like nursing? your shit doesn't flush. People who end up as cops are on a power trip, plain and simple. The only thing they serve is their quotas, their paychecks and their egos.

[-] 1 points by divineright (664) 11 years ago

Catholic priests is the first example that comes to mind. I try to avoid blanket statements. We all know they have been and will continue to be used against OWS. Try to take the high road there.


[-] 1 points by Thisisthetime (200) from Kahlotus, WA 11 years ago

I agree. Being a Police Officer is very stressful and demanding. They also have to take orders from the 1% just like the rest of us, if they want to feed their families. The incompetent officers need to be weeded out.

[-] 3 points by flip (7101) 11 years ago

if you think the army and the police are there to keep us safe you need to read some real history - i suggest howard zinn to start. while you are right that the police are people too they are doing a job for those whole own and run the country.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

So true.

[-] 1 points by royfolker65 (3) from Spokane, WA 11 years ago

Why do you think the UC Davis police did this? It was never to arrest the protesters on the ground - it was to provoke a violent confrontation with the students. Watch the video - they came to that protest armed for bear. They were hoping it would turn ugly and thus provide them with the 'justification' for using the weapons on more students and sending more to the hospital. When they attack people in this way, they are trying to get the crowd to disregard their commitment to non-violence so the police (and the 1%) can say "see - they really are violent and dangerous". On the other hand, the way the crowd got the storm troopers to retreat and withdraw without striking a single blow is truly inspiring.

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 11 years ago

right on!

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 11 years ago

That would be the 99% they work for and are part of. Babble, doesn't become anyone, especially misspelled babble.

[-] 2 points by flip (7101) 11 years ago

which side are you on boy? ........................Once the cordon formed, the deputy sheriffs pointed their truncheons toward the crowd. It looked like the oldest of military maneuvers, a phalanx out of the Trojan War, but with billy clubs instead of spears. The students were wearing scarves for the first time that year, their cheeks rosy with the first bite of real cold after the long Californian Indian summer. The billy clubs were about the size of a boy’s Little League baseball bat. My wife was speaking to the young deputies about the importance of nonviolence and explaining why they should be at home reading to their children, when one of the deputies reached out, shoved my wife in the chest and knocked her down.

My wife bounced nimbly to her feet. I tripped and almost fell over her trying to help her up, and at that moment the deputies in the cordon surged forward and, using their clubs as battering rams, began to hammer at the bodies of the line of students. It was stunning to see. They swung hard into their chests and bellies. Particularly shocking to me — it must be a generational reaction — was that they assaulted both the young men and the young women with the same indiscriminate force. If the students turned away, they pounded their ribs. If they turned further away to escape, they hit them on their spines.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

This is fascism. The cops are helping to get to that point.


[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 11 years ago

i guess you do not know our history - well at least you can spell - start reading

[-] 1 points by vincentcinq (3) from New York, NY 11 years ago

so its justified because their learning and still trying to get it right...thats a sick excuse....shame on you and the police for not using their brains....if it gets to the point that doing this is shit they're instructed to do or they just decide to do it because they deem it necessary....thats exactly the problem....peoples humanity and well being is not something to be tested and tried because they need to figure out whether violence or peace is the answer....give me a fucking break....it has to do with a question of ethics and if someones brain doesnt tell them that what they did is wrong, then iether whoever trained them is at fault or they themselves are at fault.....use your own brain before making excuses to justify this cruelty....violence and cruelty are never justified u poor poor soul

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 11 years ago

your argument begs the question that pepper spraying miltiant occupiers is somehow 'wrong'. you might want it to be, but if you block a sidewalk/subway/port/park.road you will get arrested. And (really, can the lightbulb go off here?) that can include pepper spray to get you to comply with the lawful orders given you. Shame on lawful abiding citizens? shame on YOU for breaking the law and whining about the results of your choice.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

It's not illegal to protest, and part of protesting is blocking such things as you mentioned. Getting arrested for actually doing something illegal is one thing. Getting beaten and brutalized for protesting is a whole different thing. You're the one who needs to learn something. People like you who support the power structure sicken me to no end.

[-] 1 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 11 years ago

Absolutely right. It's ours.

[-] 1 points by ediblescape (235) 11 years ago



[-] 5 points by xxcONScIENcExx (172) 11 years ago

American flags are a key piece to the growth of this movement! Until these become the symbols over fists and masks, this movement will struggle to get the masses to hear what we want them to hear! For now, the naysayers and the under-informed will write us off as violent extremists who hate this country and want to destroy everyone's "way of life" - Even though we may be embarrassed of what our flag stands for today.... that is not a reason to abandon it. That is a cowardly move. If anything, we should be embracing it. One of the key pillars of this movement should be to restore it's meaning

[-] 3 points by Var (195) 11 years ago

Excellent idea! Let the thugs pepper spray the American flag.

Put the flag on your shirts, bandanas, and across your face.

[-] 1 points by AaronTheBaron89 (1) 11 years ago

This has already been tried -


[-] 3 points by xxcONScIENcExx (172) 11 years ago


He didn't let go! Never let it go! Now that's the type of imagery that will turn heads when replicated 1000s of times across the country... Really,a national day of flag donations should be scheduled. I will hand deliver what I can afford to my local occupy movement.

[-] 0 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 11 years ago

Thanks for the link. I can only suggest, maybe singing the national anthem, being non confrontational, and non-accusatory. Instead of asking, "Is this what you're about?" just chant "This is America!"

[-] 1 points by lisa (425) 11 years ago

Protesters could also wear safety goggles (the plastic things that welders and other people wear to protect their eyes). Of course they would just use their nightsticks more to beat them.


[-] -1 points by jimmycrackerson (940) from Blackfoot, ID 11 years ago

Fired? He needs to be burned at the stake.


[-] -2 points by jimmycrackerson (940) from Blackfoot, ID 11 years ago

Fired? He needs to be burned the stake...

[-] -2 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 11 years ago


Socrates says:"That policeman needs to be fired. We need to file a police brutality complaint. Follow the Libyans and Egyptians"

Oh is that what they're doing in Tahrir Square right now? Filing complaints against brutal cops?

[-] 1 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 11 years ago

Thank you for pointing out that Occupiers are doing the right thing now to restore democracy in America non-violently before a complete takeover of America and American politicians by immoral, corrupt, and tyrannical corporations, when violence would be unavoidable.

It is a sad thing when people all over the world must get hurt to regain their freedoms; it is a sad thing that we have to fight for what is rightly ours; it is a sad thing when the North African Treaty Organization has to bombard Libya to free its people from the clutches of a soldier who seized power in a coup d’etat; it is a sad thing that protecting our rights requires sacrifice.

We would all rather be home with our loved ones, our families and our children. But when our government no longer represents the people, the people must represent themselves.

We must regain our country now, when bloodshed can be avoided. We must regain our country now before Jefferson's proclamation that “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants” becomes unavoidable.

[-] 1 points by heraldofthunder (4) 11 years ago

son, if you think anyone went to libya to 'free' its people from anything, you're still asleep. for starters, google something that'll give you the standard of living in libya, for a general idea of how it was for the libyan '99%'. but i'm sure the libyans can't wait them nikes and burger kings!

all that is not to say that gaddafi wasn't what you'd label a 'dictator', or a human rights violator.

[-] 1 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 11 years ago

There's was a reason why I wrote North "African" Treaty Org. rather than North Atlantic Treaty Org (which is what NATO really stands for.) North Africa, while it borders on the Mediterranean Sea, is I believe a bit far from the Atlantic; but conveniently it is close to Europe and has just the right type of crude oil that European refineries can process.

[-] 1 points by dalton (111) 11 years ago

Hey Socrates469bc, hate to tell ya, we are not a democracy. We are a REPUBLIC.

[-] 1 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 11 years ago

Thanks for the correction. You are right. But I don't have a better idea. Do you? (Perhaps make another post but provide a link here.)

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

Right on. There are so many people who just don't get it (or who don't want to get it).... and that's equally as sad.


[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 11 years ago

Yes, it's not good that cops beat, chemical spray and arrest here and in Egypt they've murdered.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

They murder here, too.... just not en masse, and we don't hear about most of it.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 11 years ago

If they've murdered OW protesters that is very very important that the world know.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

I didn't mean they've murdered OWS protesters, but yes, if they do, the world must know. There are plenty of dirty cops who murder people and who get away with it.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 11 years ago

That I know.

[-] -2 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 11 years ago

"That policeman needs to be fired. We need to file a police brutality complaint. Follow the Libyans and Egyptians.'

Today in Tahrir Square Egyptians are not filing complaints against thug cops.


[-] 0 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 11 years ago

Thank you for pointing out that Occupiers are doing the right thing now to restore democracy in America non-violently before a complete takeover of America and American politicians by immoral, corrupt, and tyrannical corporations, when violence would be unavoidable.

It is a sad thing when people all over the world must get hurt to regain their freedoms; it is a sad thing that we have to fight for what is rightly ours; it is a sad thing when the North African Treaty Organization has to bombard Libya to free its people from the clutches of a soldier who seized power in a coup d’etat; it is a sad thing that protecting our rights requires sacrifice.

We would all rather be home with our loved ones, our families and our children. But when our government no longer represents the people, the people must represent themselves.

We must regain our country now, when bloodshed can be avoided. We must regain our country now before Jefferson's proclamation that “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants” becomes unavoidable.

[-] 1 points by anon5fnord (7) from Freeport, NY 11 years ago

I agree however for most of our infrastructure it is too late, the one fact you have to keep in mind about the police, the FBI or any other governmental agency is this, they have already been sold to the highest bidder. do you remember the boom of the 90's? they got all that money from ex order 12803 signed by G.H.W. Bush in 92. Its called the "infrastructure Privatization" order, if you have not read it, you need to. the biggest issue we have is that some don't know what we are really up against. My advise to everyone (even myself) is take no-one's word for it, not even your own, we have been lied to and misled for generations. I say it is time WE think for ourselves, and get the data needed to be truly informed.

[-] -3 points by velveeta (230) 11 years ago

he needs to be fired and then have a night stick shoved up his ass! on live television!

[-] 2 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 11 years ago

He needs retraining, and a different job; he needs to be fired. Being a policeman is just not his calling.


[-] 3 points by Justice4all (133) 11 years ago

Agreed whole heartedly rocky!! Its their kind of thinking that allowed the Nazis to take over in Germany. And in case he hadnt noticed--this movement has grown to immense perportions and is only beginning! Looks like many in the population have learned from history--we saw what the Nazis did through tyrrany--we're not allowing it to happen here! But good try anyhow giant corporations! But you can all pack it up--your rule is over!!


[-] 2 points by Justice4all (133) 11 years ago

Oh if you only knew the action being taken--if you only knew!!!! lol


[+] -7 points by NonParticipant (151) 11 years ago

Using the American flag for this kind of garbage will only turn people away from you even more.

[-] 3 points by MockingjayFly (14) from Owaneco, IL 11 years ago

You are ridiculous....... the only garbage in this situation is the disgusting wastes of space that call themselves police officers......protect and serve much lately????

[-] 2 points by Justice4all (133) 11 years ago

Thank You!! Well actually they have protected and served--the very wealthiest--screw the rest of us and OUR freedoms--they count for nothing, but guess thats not news to any of us! Cut the police by 50%--hell make it 75% in all cities and have those left fight the real crime going on rather than destroying peoples freedoms. That will also help the cities get their budgets more under control!!

[-] 1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 11 years ago

Good idea! Fire Anthony (Tony Lunchmeat) Bologna first.


[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 11 years ago

That's NOT a police officer.

[-] 2 points by divineright (664) 11 years ago

More like a mental patient with a badge.

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 11 years ago

Might be but it's definitely not a real cop.

[-] 1 points by divineright (664) 11 years ago

I don't think there are many real cops left today. Kudos to the few remaining. Stand up for your own reputation and validity. Don't let the barbaric fools attacking the people define you. Speak out. Act out. You won't stand alone.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 11 years ago

If he gets away with this he's a cop.

[-] 1 points by jpbarbieux (137) from Palmetto Bay, FL 11 years ago


[-] 1 points by Var (195) 11 years ago

Could it be that you're a Christian fascist, who thinks the flag represents Christian fascism? (Note, there are no gods. Never were, never will be.)

[-] 0 points by NotRichEnough (18) 11 years ago

Hahahahaha what an idiot to make an assumption based on nothing.

[-] 1 points by Var (195) 11 years ago

Just applying logic. Obviously he's against patriots and democracy, so the likelihood that he's a fascist is good, and in the USA most fascists call themselves Christians.

[-] 0 points by NotRichEnough (18) 11 years ago

That's not logic, moron. That's ignorant. Don't do the movement any favors with your stupidity. Btw, there are Christians in the movent. Save the divisive rhetoric for another time.

[-] 1 points by sufinaga (513) 11 years ago

christians owe their allegiance to their own community ruled by an all male fascist hierarchy. they do not have OUR COMMUNITY in their hearts. they are here to "do good" and recruit for their community. all christian preachers GROOM children by telling them their mothers are sinners! they call this original sin but its INTENT is to destroy loving family relations in our community. all christian preachers MONEY SHARK by tithing the poor and vulnerable. we must stop their violent horror story of crucifixion, rising from the dead and eating dead human flesh from entering our childrens minds. we must stop their services of reliving the crucifixion as BAD MENTAL HEALTH.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 years ago


[-] 1 points by sufinaga (513) 11 years ago

simple, jesus is the antichrist!

[-] 1 points by Var (195) 11 years ago

You're not a part of the movement, you obvious right-wing Christian nut. And you are very inept at your trolling. Now, go clean your room like your mommy says.

[-] 0 points by NotRichEnough (18) 11 years ago

Internet tough guy.

[-] 0 points by Var (195) 11 years ago

Bad cop. No doughnut. Go to your room.

[-] 11 points by socialmedic (178) 11 years ago

Hello, thirty years of right wing politiking have made this legal. And people have been blindly voting for their politicians and all in the name of anti-taxation and de-regulation. This is what republicans sold them and this is what the people voted for.

[-] 6 points by freedom33 (5) 11 years ago

This IS NOT a Republican/Democrat thing. The minute people recognize that both parties are corrupt, and work towards to same goal in this country, the better off this movement will be. Bush spent trillions, and Obama spent even more. What's the result? DEBT. They are trying to make us economic slaves who will work for the rest of our lives to pay back debt. Fuck that. It's fake. it's not real. It's paper. Again, this isn't a democrat and republican thing. They all have worked together to create a fucked up America for us all. We must unite as people who are Americans and who have mistakingly voted, thinking that one party represents our interests. The reality is, they represent THEIR intrests, and THEIR intrests only. Lets unite and take our lives back .This is what GOD wants.

[-] 1 points by socialmedic (178) 11 years ago

Both parties are corrupted by RiGHT WING Reaganonmics which hasn't gone away. A kind of corruption exists that was not as overtly present before Reagan sold fascism to the nation and the nation bought it wholesale. This is very much a Right wing thing and it isn't going to go away by denying it exists. It will go away when it is finally, at long last, identified as THE problem, so that the nation can confront it and deal with it.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 11 years ago

Then please create something formal that states this. If you dont, the media will ruin you, or just shove you into the L wing corner.

[-] 1 points by socialmedic (178) 11 years ago

And what is wrong with that? The Left wing has had no representation for more than three decades. It has been slandered and slimed and censored out of politics for thirty years. The time for the left to have a voice is LONG OVERDUE. Class discrimination has not gone away just because the Republican fascists have censored it out of discourse. I, for one, am sick and tired of this nation being so far right that even the left is rightward leaning. A choice of right wing or right wing is not a choice. I want representation in my government.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 11 years ago

This isnt right wing or left. It corportism/fascism.

The people of the right are just as frustrated with their party as the people of the left.

[-] 1 points by socialmedic (178) 11 years ago

Sometimes one feels like they are beating their head against a steel post or barking at the wind. Sigh. Big breath. Ok, here we go again: Corporatism/fascism IS right wing. It has a manifesto, published in Italy at the turn of the last century. Its adherents were Mussolini and Hitler. Its ideology was sold to the American people through the vehicles of the Neo-cons, Ronald Reagan, television and day time radio in the early 80's. Americans bought it wholesale and have not let it go since. Even the global economic meltdown wasn't enough to convince them that they had swallowed poison. When Reagan said government was the problem, he was LYING. HE was the problem. He and his followers have been the problem ever since. Am I blue in the face yet?

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 11 years ago

Bush = Obama. Obams makes me angrier, because he ran on a "CHANGE" platform.

[-] 1 points by socialmedic (178) 11 years ago

He also promised that things would not be easy to change. He has disappointed many on the left but did you really expected him to undo thirty years of republican corruption in 4? You think four more years of republican corruption is going to make it better? HA!

[-] 2 points by monjon22 (508) 11 years ago

Obama rubber stamped all the Bush policies. He took more corporate dollars than any previous President.

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 11 years ago

Its more like 30 years of Dem and Rep corruption.

The fact that those on the left just cant wrap their brains around the fact that their party doesnt give a shit about them is.....scary.

[-] 1 points by socialmedic (178) 11 years ago

No ever since Ronald Reagan brought supply sided economics back from the dead things have been different. I can't help but notice that anybody who supported REAGAN and after his corruption continued to support Republicans from Reagan onward, will never admit they made a mistake and put corruption into power. They will never admit that the capitalism of fascism was a big fat failure. One could say not all people in Nazi Germany supported Hitler. But nearly everyone went along with it, didn't they.

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 11 years ago

Exactly. Very similar to the left's defense of Obama at this point. Im not putting a whole lot on Obama for failure of the economy, because this is what globalization does to the upper countries. But there are certain things like foreign policy, and other pieces of legislation that go directly against what he campaigned on, but no one seems to care.

The left is concerned with not letting Romney in, the right is concerned with getting Obama out, and neither is concerned with who the person they are putting in there is.

[-] 1 points by socialmedic (178) 11 years ago

Obama inherited the folly of the Republicans both domestic and foreign policywise. He didn't create it. Further more he didn't get us into the wars. He has now gotten us out of Iraq, and nobody knows what the reasoning is for taking so long to do it but I can bet my bottom dollar if we had a McCain/Palin presidency we would still be in that war. Obama was not my first choice because I thought he was too conservative. We needed a candidate that recognized that this nation has been on the wrong path since Reagan and one who would have slapped the spoilt brat Republicans down in congress but there was nobody in the running who was really on the left - and everyone knows if there were they would loose. How can you get a good candidate when half the public votes against its own self-interest and has been for three decades. Anybody with half a brain wouldn't waste his time. The PEOPLE are going to have to change. Supply-sided unlimited growth politics are obsolete and have no business in politics.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 11 years ago

I agree. Until the people are beaten up enough to want change, it wont come..

[-] 1 points by socialmedic (178) 11 years ago

Right, I don't think I can stick around and wait for the blood bath.

[-] -2 points by freedom33 (5) 11 years ago

Exactly, but to me, Obama is just more evil. He straight up lied. I looked at him in 2008, and could read all over his face how full of shit he was. It's groups like the IMF, Federal Reserve, Bilderbergs, Carlyle Group etc, that these puppet politicians work for anyway. What we are doing is creating "our own society". "WE" all need to come together and realize there is NO SUCH thing as politics. We have ZERO input as to policies. I'll go as far as to say that we con't even decide to is our president. I think the groups I mentioned above "pick" who they want to run for office. Therefore, politics is bullshit, and meant to divide the country in half. Look at the fighting amongst dems anf republicans now. How do you unite a country when you have a divided congress? You DON"T, and that's the key. Leadership starts at the top, and given the hate amongst our gov't for the other parties, that has to lead you to believe that they want us to be even more divided, and therefore allow us to sink even further as a society. This just increases their power. They've made us debt slaves. NO MORE!!!! FUCK THEIR RULES. WE DON"T HAVE TO FOLLOW THEM!!

[-] 3 points by therichiswinning (10) 11 years ago

Parties don't change, the people in them do. Understand that the Republican party of my fathers time is complete different today. The core beliefs of both parties are simplistic in nature. They both have different ideas on how to spend taxpayer money which there is nothing wrong with that. The major problem here is GREED which buys fake candidates from the outside in both parties. I have to say in todays time it is a fact that their are more of these bought off candidates in the Republican party. You only have to watch what actually happens in the legislative bodies to figure this out. However, they are both in some way guilty of ignoring the voices and rigging the game in favor of the top 1% for the better of 30+ years. 1 and only 1 thing WILL change this country... Public financing of elections. No more outside or corporate money in our election system. Change this you will change the game.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 11 years ago

Public financing of elections is the way to go. You are right.

[-] 1 points by socialmedic (178) 11 years ago

I agree that destroying faith in the political process is the final nail in the coffin of the fascist moneyed elite. Of all the stupid things they have done during their three decade long greed spree, that was really, really, STUPID. That is why people who really do have a grip on what is going on, like Matt Damon, for example, are shaking their heads in disbelief. Every year they have become more and more overt in their corrupt practices. They have broken all of the rules and it wouldn't surprise me if they used the military in the domestic sphere on our own citizens as they stupidly did in Kent State, '68. Nothing is sacred. People have been riding the very same greed wagon and have been very foolish in handing them that kind of power.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 11 years ago

The elite laugh their heads off watching the great unwashed squable over silyl things like Democrat vs Republican and conservative vs liberal. These artificial divisions keep the riff raff busy while they rule and consume the world.

The fact that Obama won Ad Age Best New Brand Marketer of the year in 2008 -- beating out companies like Coors and Apple says it all. Obama was a brand the elite invented with their corporate millions. Well, he is now a tarnished brand.

[-] 2 points by socialmedic (178) 11 years ago

The elite laugh their heads off watching the masses let the Republicans off the hook time and time and time again. The latest and greatest SCAM to get the Republicans off the hook, is to deny any dichotomy exists between right and left. There is a well defined ideological one if people would bother themselves to find out what it is. Why not do the same obsolete and unsustainable supply sided economy until the human race breeds and greeds itself into oblivion.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 11 years ago

The differences are simple street theatre for the masses. Yeah, their ideologies are different, but in the long run both parties serve the billionaires.

[-] 2 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 11 years ago

So we vote against those who sign the pledge to protect the 1% from taxes (the misleading "Taxpayer Protection Pledge") in enough numbers, and we start pushing things in a more healthy direction.

OWS has already undercut a lot of the rhetoric that the right used to keep people from speaking up and speaking out, like "that's class warfare so you can't talk about it". There is power when enough people wake up and start thinking.

[-] 1 points by socialmedic (178) 11 years ago

Are their enough people who will wake up and start thinking? After watching this 30 year long twisted puppet show I have begun to believe that Americans have genetically inbred an incapacity for thought and self-government. OWS is the first sign of intelligence in all that time, LONG overdue.

[-] 2 points by jdoggma (25) 11 years ago

This is in California, and you blame the right wing? -lol. You are joking, right?

[-] 4 points by aaronparr (597) 11 years ago

California is very right wing. Most of the money is here. Keep that in mind. Liberalism is only skin deep in California. I've lived here my whole life, and been paying close attention.

[-] 2 points by freedom33 (5) 11 years ago

Please read my reply above. Politicians do not work for us. I think that's become very clear here. They represent themselves, their own interests, other powerful groups, and that's it. They manipulate us to get more for themselves. Forget politics. It's old. It's done. It's bullshit. WE need to fix this, and create our own world, our own country, and our own destiny. We, as people all need to come together for this. Democrat and Republican voters must unite. It's about us now, and about our survival, and our future.

[-] 1 points by socialmedic (178) 11 years ago

California is one of the most right wing states in the nation. Ronald Reagan came from California, While he was "cleaning up government" he cleaned up on government by sending nearly all the money for Star Wars, the military budge he tripled, right into the 60 mile circle of Los Angeles which was the largest MILITARY installation in the country. Silicon city. Mega military industrial complex. By the way, after sending all that money to and around Los Angeles, why is the state bankrupt. Why did neither the state nor the GROUND FORCES see any of it???? HMMM????? Furthermore Ahnold Swarzinazi was no commie. On the even of Enron's record banruptcy Swarzinazi dined with them, and the next morning the state of California that had been robbed blind by Enron, foolishly gave Swarzinazi the governor's office. Is it any surprise after two terms of playing Mr. goody Christian two shoes we learn about his hidden love child? And if you think hollywood is liberal, rent the collector's ediction of the movie Brazil and make sure to see all of the documentaries about the struggle its director had in getting it made. See the film Francis and note what hollywood did to her to get her to do what they wanted. Hollywood is all about the money hunny.


[-] 11 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 11 years ago

In any stage of this struggle for a free democratic society we have to expect lots of opposition from the elites and their supporters and servants. Not only do we have to expect and prepare ourselves for media-propaganda, we also have to expect more police brutality. Its a natural reaction of the finacial elite who will become more and more scared of the movement(s) as they grow. The state and government are often very servile to the wealthy finacial elite, especially in the US where the wealthy more or less control policies. The police is a tool of the business-run, or business-influenced state to try to crush the ones who want to take back from the wealthy what has been stolen thru bailouts, exploitation and speculation at the stock exchange. The elites are starting to feel threatened, they want to keep all that they have stolen, so naturally they want to stop The Occupy Movement and anyone else involved in the struggle with police force. These tendencies are however an indcation that we´re on the right track: The elites are getting scared, and react by increasing their effort in trying to crush movements. The finacial elite will however fail. Police brutality is counter-productive, it just leads to more support and sympathy for people engaged in the struggle among the general population. (taken from the article ”The Transition Phase: The Road To Freedom” )

The finacial elite control the state and government; and therefore also police http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN2Q6sdh6Bg This system is however not graven in stone, it can be changed, and changes come by organizing growing popular movements http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cdSoMbwTA4

"What you should do is exactly the kinds of things that are going to lead to hysteria among privileged and powerful people" - Noam Chomsky

Keep on fighting, keep on growing. Greetings and solidarity from Norway struggleforfreedom

Also, for those who missed it, here´s Chomsky at Occupy Boston: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZbNT62aprM (q&a at 28min)

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 years ago

You wan't further proof they are scared.

By Jonathan Larsen and Ken Olshansky, MSNBC TV

A well-known Washington lobbying firm with links to the financial industry has proposed an $850,000 plan to take on Occupy Wall Street and politicians who might express sympathy for the protests, according to a memo obtained by the MSNBC program “Up w/ Chris Hayes.”


[-] 1 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 11 years ago

We can scare them with our votes, if enough people pay attention to things that sound good [Taxpayer Protection Pledge] but are really signing a pledge to a lobbyist to protect the 1% from taxes.

We should vote out anyone who has signed this pledge really to protect Big Wealth. They are in both parties!

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 11 years ago

some things can probably be done thru voting, yes. unfortunatley you cant vote people out, you can only vote people in, and when all politicians, at least the important powerful ones, are all in the pockets of the wealthy we need to stay out of the established politics now and do the work ourselves including pushing for demands

[-] 1 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 11 years ago

But you will not find many races in which both sides have literally signed this pledge. And if you stay out of politics, you leave the laws, and how their written, totally in the hands of the worst lackeys of the 1%.

If we can punish the worst politicians by voting them out based on a principle we can hit them over the head with, then that shifts their motivation. If they know that the candidate who signs with Norquist has a disadvantage, that can change things. Now, they are only afraid of this lobbyist Norquist. They need to be afraid of us, of the power of our votes.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 11 years ago

in ”The Transition Phase: The Road To Freedom” i explain who I think we should deal with this. It`s not about staying out of politics and leaving the politicians and their bosses to run the show, it´s about staying out of the established politics and doing the job ourselves (which in the start also will include pushing politicians to make things a little better etc) The whole established political system in many countries is so democratically broken that it needs to be reconstructed before being put to use in a seriuos way.

[-] -2 points by dubhe3 (3) 11 years ago

1%-er Noam Chomsky's acceptance of money from prominent institutions whose policies he opposes (such as the Pentagon), living in an expensive home...Even though Chomsky abhors corporations and refers to them as "fascist", Chomsky's own retirement fund is invested in large capitalization NYSE companies and the TIAA-CREF stock fund. A look at the stock fund portfolio quickly reveals that it invests in all sorts of businesses that Chomsky says he finds abhorrent: oil companies, military contractors, pharmaceuticals, you name it.[1] Do as I Say (Not as I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy (ISBN 0385513496) is a book written by author Peter Schweizer and published by Doubleday in 2005.

[-] 8 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 11 years ago

These idiotic arguments about people who have been fortunate and have sold lots of books etc, in some way not being able/allowed to still have principles and sticking to their ideology and presenting truth and fighting for the rights of the less fortunate is getting a little old. There are lots of lies produced about Chomsky. Going out against the wealthy elites you get a lot of people hating your guts. They also have the resources to produce lots of lies.

[-] 2 points by Justice4all (133) 11 years ago

I agree with you struggleforfreedom80! Not saying money is totally an evil thing. If put in the right hands and distributed correctly--all can have a good and well lived life as we are seeing what is happening with the money raised by OWS. They are doing the right things with the money. If it were the system that we've come to dispise--OWS would have dictatorial leaders at the top with their minions working under them and keeping all the money thats been raised. But we are seeing a system working the way it should. Money is being taken in and being used to feed and help those in most need of it! If those who have created this capitalistic nightmare we are living in treated what they have created the same way--we would all be living in a much more peaceful and harmonious existance!! But because we are where we are at, these are the actions that have needed to have been and finally are happening. Chomskys message was the important thing--by making money he did the right thing by putting that money back into raising continuos consciesness about the problems facing us. He could have written one book took all the profits and not said another word. Imagine if those who ran things took most of their profits gave that to society and kept on doing that over and over--what a different world we would have today!!



[-] 3 points by marpwv18 (26) 11 years ago

He's in TIAA-CREF because the MIT 403b is managed by them. If you are saving for retirement and you want MIT to match your contributions, its probably your only option. But nice try jackass.

[-] 2 points by dreamingforward (394) from Gothenburg, NE 11 years ago

Ummm, so just how is one supposed to legally influence a for-profit corp except by owning a portion of it?

[-] 1 points by anon5fnord (7) from Freeport, NY 11 years ago

you can't, corporate law is very clear on this issue, that's what makes the fact that all the gov agencies are corporations that we can't buy into, the biggest shame of all.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 11 years ago

In fairness to Noam he's not a one percenter. He's in the top 2% of US taxpayers.

MIT is a major recipient of Pentagon money. So is Noam.


Let's start with Chomsky's bête noire, the American military.

To hear Chomsky describe it, the Pentagon has got to be one of the most evil institutions in world history. He has called it several times "the most hideous institution on this earth" and declares that it "constitutes a menace to human life."(7) More to the point, the military has no business being on college campuses, whether recruiting, providing money for research, or helping students pay for college. Professors shouldn't work with the Pentagon, he has said, and instead should fight racism, poverty, and repression.(8) Universities shouldn't take Pentagon research money because it ends up serving the Pentagon's sinister goal of "militarizing" American society.(9) He's also against college students getting ROTC scholarships, and from Vietnam to the Gulf War he has helped in efforts to drive the program off college campuses.(10)

So imagine my surprise when I discovered Chomsky's lucrative secret: He himself has been paid millions by the Pentagon over the last forty years. Conveniently, he also claims that it is morally acceptable. 12/25/06 money from the Joint Services Electronic Program (U.S. Army, U.S. Navy, and U.S. Air Force) as well as the U.S. Air Force Electronic Systems Division. 12/25/06

Serving this "fascist institution" (as he has repeatedly called it) became a family affair when his wife, Carol, also an accomplished linguist, signed on for Pentagon work participating in a DoD-funded project called "Baseball."(11)

Serving this "fascist institution" (as he has repeatedly called it) became a family affair when his wife, Carol, also an accomplished linguist, signed on for Pentagon work participating in a DoD-funded project called "Baseball."(11)

Why would the Pentagon fund research into linguistics? Were they simply interested in advancing science? Chomsky would call anyone who believed such a thing supremely naive. As Chomsky well knew, his work in linguistics was considered vital by the air force and others to improve their "increasingly large investment in so-called 'command and control' computer systems" that were being used "to support our forces in Vietnam." As air force colonel Edmund P. Gaines put it in 1971, "Since the computer cannot 'understand' English, the commanders' queries must be translated into a language that the computer can deal with; such languages resemble English very little, either in their form or in the ease with which they are learned and used."


[-] -2 points by betuadollar (-313) 11 years ago

Surprise, surprise... and you don't think these other "activists" both left and right are self-promoters? They all are and right now they're taking in millions.And you are their tool.

[-] 3 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 11 years ago

Let's say, for the sake of argument only, that you're right. Even with that, you aren't seeing the real picture.

Some activists (very few, but that's unimportant) may make a couple of million dollars. That's still a far cry from their greatly outnumbered corporate CEOs who make tens of millions a year every single year, and control, through their offices, TRILLIONS of dollars. Those CEOs literally control the entire world economy. I know of no network of activists controlling that level of capitol.

You are arguing from a fallacy, that simply because someone has money means they are not advocating for policies that help people who don't. FDR , for example, had lots and lots of money, but he bought millions of people out of starvation and homelessness. He created Social Security and Unemployment Insurance, and initiated the minimum wage., among his scores of initiatives.

If some activist who has money supports the goals of OWS or other progressive movements, it is more to their credit: what they advocate, if implemented, would mean their having LESS, not more. A steeply graduated progressive income tax, for example, would reduce their own assets. They are to be lauded for their willingness to sacrifice their own luxury for the sake of fairness, not demonized for having money in the first place.

The main point you're missing is that it is not a matter of personal, individual wealth this movement opposes. It is the corruption of an entire system that is the issue. Networks of the wealthy and powerful have acted in concert to rig the system against the person who works for a living. This is not a tin-foil-hat-conspiracy theory: just look at boards of directors in various financial corporations and other huge, multi-national companies. Look at the energy sector. You will see that they all serve on each other's boards. They all share the same goals. And they are intimately connected to government. They, not the Average Joe, not the occasional progressive activist, have controlled the capital and The Capitol, the money and the agenda.

You rail against Chomsky. But the Anonymous banker, oil magnate and the Senators and Congressmen who do their bidding escape your ire. Even if you are correct about Chomsky, where is your sense of PROPORTION?

Finally, as to being someone's "tool": as Bob Dylan sang, you gotta serve somebody. I would rather serve those people and ideas that have my interests at heart than those of bankers and oil men, who clearly haven't. They they have wrecked the economy, created untold poverty, started and financed useless wars, and so on. Perhaps most importantly, they have distorted democracy, something I hold dear, and the very thing this country was originally founded to create.

Who and what are you gonna serve?

[-] -1 points by betuadollar (-313) 11 years ago

All very true. But what you fail to realize is that you have become a capitalist tool. Really. The non-profits on both sides are popping up everywhere all vying for your support. And THEY are the new for-profit industries.

Pick a cause, any cause, create a web site, grow the angst, and bingo...

You want to know how most people respond to your foolishness in North Carolina? They put five deer in the freezer. Really, they're not here on the Internet right now; they're too busy in their tree stands.

They got a house, four or five acres, maybe a couple of horses... and they could care less... and when they do finally come out of the woods it's going to be in support of God and country. What they represent is the "silent majority."

I love some of Dylan's music but I wouldn't want to live what appears to be a somewhat tortured and confused life philosophy.

Have you read the Preamble? The only person you have to serve is yourself.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 11 years ago

"The non-profits on both sides are popping up everywhere all vying for your support. And THEY are the new for-profit industries."

Not even close. They don't control the world economy. They don't access TRILLIONS of dollars. Again where is the sense of proportion?

".....in support of God and country."

And that, is EXACTLY what OWC is in support of, at least the country part, (you know that little freedom of and from religion thing) and thats what those people in North Carolina you refer to are missing. (I presume you're really talking for yourself, not the entire state.)

What is more in support of country than making democracy democratic again? What can be more in support of country than separating big money from politics so that one's vote matters again?

The right wing in this country has engaged in a long, sustained, extremely well funded propaganda campaign for more than a generation. They are an arm of big money interests exclusively, but falsely couch their rhetoric in terms of catchphrases like "freedom" and "values" when in reality they push policies that limit both. And you seem to have bought it, lock, stock, and barrel. When you compare non-profits with the Wall Street/ Washington cabal, you are acting as an unwitting shill to that very cabal.

Finally, if the only person you have to serve is yourself, the Founding Fathers would never have created this nation. All countries are made of people who serve each other. Anarchy is what you describe, not the Founding Principles. The preamble you mention talks about about a more perfect UNION, not self-serving individuals, and seeks to "provide for the COMMON defense, promote the GENERAL Welfare." Sounds like service to me. And if those people (other than you) in North Carolina support the God part of "God and Country" the kind of selfishness you seem to advocate is a far cry from the attitude of your fellow North Carolinians.

[-] -1 points by betuadollar (-313) 11 years ago

The "more perfect union" you speak of is taken from the Constitution, not the Dec, and so is "promote the General Welfare." You've never studied either one, have you?

The two words most often spoke by the colonial were "Liberty" and "Slavery"; the colonial did not fight to gain his freedom, he fought to defend his liberty.

Your interpretation of "General Welfare" is highly flawed; this is not the sentiment our Founding Fathers fought for, it is the force they fought against.

I'm not a "right winger"; I'm not a "born again," or a Pentecostal, or a Baptist, either, and to suggest that I am is rather juvenile.

What we're talking is America.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 11 years ago

The constitution, not the Declaration, is the legal document of this country. When you mentioned the Preamble, you did not specify to what: I assumed it was to the legal foundation of the country, not to a purely rhetorical document.

I don't care whether you describe yourself as a right winger or not. If you carry on about the non-profits as somehow the equivalent of the current corporate Plutocracy, you are doing their bidding; you are SERVING them.

Non- profits did not destroy the economy. Non-profits don't rule the economy. Non-profits did not throw tens of millions of people out of work. Non-profits don't deny millions access to health care. Non-profits didn't start two wars. FOR-profits and their government cronies did all that. Your confusion about this issue serves the FOR-profits divide and conquer strategy very well.

As to constitutional interpretations, perhaps I took a rhetorical license, (although noted jurists have expressed the same thing and I stand by it) but only in response to your espousing some nonsense about only having to serve yourself, combined with "God and Country" references.

All nations, especially those based on principles of democracy, are based on a social contract. By definition, that means service. What's more to the point, however, is that today, unless you are a complete hermit living in the mountains, you CAN'T only serve yourself. You either serve the corporate interests or you serve the common good. Acquiescing to the current system of corruption serves the former. Raising your voice against it serves the latter. "Serving" simply means picking a side. Either you support (serve) the Corporate Oligarchy or you support (serve) Democracy. One can't have it both ways.

[-] -1 points by betuadollar (-313) 11 years ago

"All men are created equal"... to which preamble do you think I reference? [And I rest my case.] And the Constitution is but one third of a triumvirate which serves to establish this as a "Nation of Law."

I definitely do NOT support your concept or precept of "service."

And if I'm picking sides, it definitely will NOT be the one that suggests I owe anybody "service" or that I should acquiesce and "cooperate."

You have no idea what "God and Country" means, do you? It's the concept that we shall have "none other Gods"; that we must meet as equals on Judgment Day - in short, it is "empowerment" because it says that we will not bow to a corrupt church or a corrupt government; because we must answer to something higher.

It's the concept that created America.

And I am not a right winger; I'm non-religious as very, very, casual... (but a caution here, don't misinterpret that as well).

Airheads... I get so tired of the airheads.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 11 years ago

"......all men are created equal" is not called the preamble to anything. It starts the second paragraph, not the first, of the Declaration. The word "preamble" generally refers to the Constitution.

Nevertheless, this is not a forum in which to debate the constitution, US history, or a concept of service that you are not willing to acknowledge. I would be happy to debate elsewhere about these issue, but it is academic, and this movement is not about that, but about our very lives.

Let's get back to the subject that engaged you and me in the first place: non-profits and activists. I say again: they are NOT the issue. They did NOT cause the mess we're in. To conflate those that created a world-wide crisis, the likes of which this we have not seen since the Great Depression, with non-profits or activists is a truly bizarre assertion, and serves the interests of those that have ALL the power.

Is that the side you choose?

[-] -1 points by betuadollar (-313) 11 years ago

The point is that people are profiting from this angst; more - they are promoting it through the thousands of online politically oriented non-profits that have popped up over the past three years. And that IS an issue that speaks to the very heart of OWS.

And you're wrong about the plastic box you see before you - as corporations continue to outsource, and employment opportunities continue to decline, this box will prove a far more typical source. These non-profits are but one example.

In reference to "sides," you do not define the parameters here - I decide those. There shall be no social contract in the manner or form you have proposed.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 11 years ago

The point is noting of the sort. The point is that the banking/financial industry has brought this country to its knees. The point is that democracy has been bought and sold by the 1%. What you're bringing up is static, noise.

Online politically-oriented non-profits? Give me a break. They have such a fraction of the money and resources and political connections that the 1% have, it's like talking about the weight of a feather during an avalanche. OWS is about the corruption by the 1% that is impacting the 99%. Your focus on some non-profits has nothing, zero, zip, nada, to do with that, and only serves to distract from the real problem. Let's put that problem simply; IT'S THE BANKS.

There ARE only two sides, even if you want to invent more. Those working to maintain the 1% and those working to help the 99%, the rest of us. Get real. Wake up.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

Some people will continually refuse to see the big picture, no matter how much you explain it to them. That, to me, says they do support those with all the power (not the non-profits, either).

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

This response is for betuadollar (I couldn't reply below):

Public education is NOT a special interest group. The special interest groups that are receiving hefty tax dollars are NOT non-profits. Rather, they are the oil industry and many others that control EVERYTHING.

"The General Welfare clause was never intended to provide for the welfare of a full forty percent of our population; it was intended to provide for the "general" welfare of its citizens as those issues of common economic concern that could not be resolved locally or individually by the states."

Exactly.... so things MUST change in a HUGE way in order to change this situation. But, it ISN'T the fault of non-profits or of public education for this. It IS the fault of corporations AND government.... the ones on top.

Blaming only the current administration while failing to cite that plenty of other previous administrations heavily contributed to the situation we have now is lying about the situation. This is something that started happening with Reagan, and each president since and including him are guilty of perpetuating the problem. You need to blame ALL of them and NOT just Obama.

Blaming non-profits and public education for where we are now while failing to blame those parties that are responsible is being completely misguided..... on purpose.

Again, some people will continually refuse to see the big picture, no matter how much you explain it to them.

[-] -1 points by betuadollar (-313) 11 years ago

He's absolute wrong. We have government on the top stealing from us to provide for special interests, which certainly do not fit the general welfare clause. And we have people on the bottom stealing from us, many of whom are not even citizens of this country, let alone contributors.

My school district this past year, which incidentally is predominantly non-Hispanic, hired nineteen esl teachers; to facilitate this they laid off four math teachers and two english teachers and we now have larger class sizes.. This is just one little example.

Our Medicaid costs are growing by leaps and bounds, our hospitalization costs are growing by leaps and bounds, and so are our educational costs.

The General Welfare clause was never intended to provide for the welfare of a full forty percent of our population; it was intended to provide for the "general" welfare of its citizens as those issues of common economic concern that could not be resolved locally or individually by the states.

And under the present administration, both of these forces are in collusion against us.

And I get really tired of people attempting to lead the masses through the creation of irrational fictions. Do you want me to list the whole litany of irrational fictions here?

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 11 years ago

There are two sides, yours and mine. What my side sees is people who steal from the top and people who steal from the bottom; both are in collusion against us.

So run your nonsense somewhere else...

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 11 years ago

Since there is no one is stealing from the top, but only the other way around, your point is nonsense, based on illusion. When the top 400 people in this country own the assets equal to total sum of the bottom 150,000,000 people, stealing from the top is a non-issue. The top controls the economy, not the bottom. The top sends armies to war, not the bottom, The top control the banks, not the bottom, The top outsources jobs, not the bottom. The top controls congress, not the bottom. The top has the whole pie, the bottom has the crumbs. What has been stolen from the top? By whom? The answer: nothing and no one.

I fully agree, though, that the 1% is in collusion against every one of us.

There is no such collusion at the bottom; those who live there are too busy just trying to scape together a meagre living - something the top 1% has made continuously harder - to be able to collude about anything.

Those people at the bottom, even if they try to steal from the top don't effect YOUR life. Those at the top, however, control every penny you make, and impact every freedom you enjoy.

A little perspective is in order, a sense of proportion about who is doing what to whom is in order. Your enemy is not those at he bottom, but exclusively those at the top. Those at the bottom are your allies, whether you recognize it or not.

[-] 4 points by PatriotMissiles (37) 11 years ago

Here is a question: If they are the police and are here to "protect and serve", why do they wear all black??

Additional Points that I will provide based on my own opinions and other interesting items I have come across:

  1. At every major protest in any city we need someone to reach the highest point of the city to take quality photos of the movement to show the huge amounts of people that are showing up! The media will not do it so we have to be the ones to show the large number of people that support us. If a picture is worth a thousand words....

  2. Every major protests needs to have people carrying the U.S. flag, the state flag, and flags of major universities and other institutions related to the area. This will help show our loyalty to our home lands, people, and institutions.

  3. Read this article, it shows just how coordinated the assault will and can be on the Occupy Movement. http://news.yahoo.com/u-banks-undermine-occupy-protestors-memo-213618820.html

I hope you have prepared for the long haul, as the battle will get more intense as it continues.

We have created a conversation among 300 million Americans within 2 months of startup (not to mention a world conversation). Any corporation would pay millions of dollars to achieve such a feat and most likely still fail to reach the full audience. Success has been achieved in creating awareness. Persuasion is becoming the next stage!


[-] 3 points by mcf127 (17) 11 years ago

It is illegal read the section 1983 case at: http://www.shouselaw.com/pepperspray.html

[-] 2 points by JPB950 (2254) 11 years ago

It looks so casual, no anger, he showed the can first, was this just out of nowhere or were the demonstrators told if they didn't move off the walk they would be sprayed? The video doesn't show much of what came before the spraying. I guess it made separating the locked arms easier. I'm just surprised because it gives the demonstrators what they wanted.

[-] 2 points by Thisisthetime (200) from Kahlotus, WA 11 years ago

This is just Plain Wrong. This is unacceptable behavior by a Police Officer. It is a fine line between protecting the public and abusing the public and this Officer needs to either be fired or "promoted" to the 1%. Fair-ness.

[-] 1 points by piumadifenice (1) from White Plains, NY 11 years ago

" The author is a Forbes contributor. The opinions expressed are those of the writer. "

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

Yes, but Forbes has printed the article. That says something.

[-] 0 points by velveeta (230) 11 years ago

the average forbes subscriber is a conservative robot. maybe this will swing the pendulum a hair


[-] 1 points by devilliers123 (18) 11 years ago

it ain't abuse it's cowardice

[-] 1 points by Thisisthetime (200) from Kahlotus, WA 11 years ago

I agree fully. This pompous campus cop is demonstrating a complete Abuse of Authority that was entrusted to him by the Public. I am very proud and touched by the spontaneous reaction UC Davis students showed by controlling themselves(more than this misguided cop). I thought the Students "Shame On You" was appropriate and very effective. Also, I was moved by the Quiet Respect that the Students showed as the Chancellor left her office. The Students showed First-Class behavior for Peaceful Resistance. Keep Up the Good Work. Fair-ness.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

They shouldn't be surprised if people start retaliating this crap.

[-] 1 points by AreUSerious (20) 11 years ago

You must have missed he first part of the video where a police officer gave one final warning to each of those pepper sprayed for refusing to stop blocking the walk way. He walked to wleach of them and said something like, 'you understand that if you don't move, we will useflapper spray'. They all decided to continue to sit there as the officer walked over to the guy with the pepper spray and told him to fire away. Hey had like 2 minutes at that point (during the warning to each of them), and I'm sure thy had ample time before the point where the cops had to debrief each of them.

You can all choose to ignore that footage though and pretend this is a group of martyrs if you'd like though.

[-] 1 points by nimbus22 (106) from Chaska, MN 11 years ago

You must have missed the part where in America we can protest and say whatever the f^&k we want! Go back to your backwards dictatorship country if you don't like it! Home of the free and land of the brave. remember that next time you see something like this!

[-] 1 points by AreUSerious (20) 11 years ago

They had the opportunity to protest two feet away on the grass, but they decided to sit there and defy warnings. If this were a dictatorship they would have just peppersprayed, as the editing of this video footage attempted to miscommunicate to the audience.


[-] 0 points by SteveKJR (-497) 11 years ago

Did you notice where they were sitting? Blocking a "public walkway". What's wrong with that picture?



[-] -1 points by jimmycrackerson (940) from Blackfoot, ID 11 years ago

We do have the right to bear arms. And there's a reason why they're attached to bodies.

I'll tell ye what, the first piggy to unleash pepper spray in my direction gets a permanent reminder of what America is all about...riot gear or no riot gear.

[-] -1 points by OhioLeda (-1) 11 years ago

The recruitment qualifications for "Officers" (not Policeman) has changed dramatically. They want Illiterate kids with an IQ lower than 100. The Psych test given completely demonstrates exactly what it is they are looking for now. They want idiot drones with chips on their shoulders.


[-] -1 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 11 years ago

You ever heard of a thing called CONTEXT you dickwad? How many times were they warned first?

[-] 2 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 11 years ago

you can find the full versions of the videos (the uncut, unpropagandized) on youtube, in 3 parts. the cops asked repeatedly for the students to stop blocking the sidewalk. Over and over, then told them to move. They linked arms and refused. Cops tried to move them, but a body is a heavy thing to move, especially with linked arms.
This is what getting arrested looks like. Man up.

[-] 1 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 11 years ago

Exactly right.

[-] 2 points by mcf127 (17) 11 years ago

Ever hear of a law degree, I have one. It's the context that's damning.

[-] 0 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 11 years ago

WTF who cares if you have a law degree LMAO pull in that ego buddy, you're sounding like the 1%.


[-] 0 points by nimbus22 (106) from Chaska, MN 11 years ago

either way they are unarmed and peaceful. Use of pepper spray is gross misconduct.

[-] 1 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 11 years ago

And blocking public thoroughfares for thousands of working citizens is not misconduct at all, right? Or smashing windows, defecating on police cars etc etc etc. Yes, do as I say, not as I do.

[-] 1 points by nimbus22 (106) from Chaska, MN 11 years ago

you exaggerate. People on your side of the fence argue that cops violating civil and constitutional rights shouldn't represent all cops, but then when some idiots commit a petty misdemeanor all protestors are criminals. Grow up. And if blocked traffic is your worst complaint then I would say the protests are VERY peaceful. And what is some blocked traffic in comparison to the very real problems that are being protested? If consider the recession and all the misery it has dispensed on the public against some blocked traffic for a few hours; the two dont really compare do they? Your criticisms are laughable.

[-] 1 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 11 years ago

"my side of the fence" ?? Look who's making judgements. You still don't get it, and you never will, because your mind is closed to any opinion but your own.

[-] 1 points by nimbus22 (106) from Chaska, MN 11 years ago

great response. A personal attack? Couldn't address the issue anymore? The open mind card? Weak.

[-] -2 points by NotRichEnough (18) 11 years ago

Legal?!?! Since when does anyone in this movement care about laws? This isn't apartheid or genocide.


[-] 1 points by nimbus22 (106) from Chaska, MN 11 years ago

your arrogance and anger make you weak.


[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

Every person on this planet is responsible for THEIR OWN ACTION.... REGARDLESS.

[+] -5 points by cvasq (12) 11 years ago

maybe they should've moved then huh?


[-] 7 points by nimbus22 (106) from Chaska, MN 11 years ago

really? looks like they are sitting there unarmed to me. There is such a thing as rules of engagement and escalation of force that the police have to follow or their use of force can become illegal like you see here.


[-] 2 points by regis123 (5) 11 years ago

Rocky99: You are a sick sociopath.


[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 years ago

the moderators of this website need to add something so we can flag posts like this and have the moderators ban people who obviously don't follow forum rules. As it is, all I can do is click on dislike. Which I will.

[-] 1 points by MockingjayFly (14) from Owaneco, IL 11 years ago

You are a despicable human being and a sorry excuse for an American citizen. SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!! No one should be treated like that. They pay thousands of dollars to attend that school so they can sit wherever the heck they want!

[+] -8 points by hotrod02 (21) 11 years ago

This is not "abuse". "Abuse" would be opening fire on the crowd with real bullets like they do in Syria and Egypt. The pepper spray will wear off and these folks will not be injured. Sure, its going to be painful for about an hour or so, but they go home with only their pride hurt. Besides, would you rather the police manhandle the protesters. They do have a right to use a certain level of force to effect an arrest. Effecting an arrest with pepper spray is an acceptable level to me. It looks bad in the video, but they are not exactly shooting the protesters.

If I were in the protesters situation, I would have obeyed the man lawful orders they were given. They were violating the law by being on that property. You cant just make camp wherever you feel like it. I see a crowd of spoiled kids who were not complying with lawful orders and trespassing on property. They didnt follow the orders and so they got a bad dose of pepper spray.

[-] 5 points by macdragon (4) 11 years ago

when the "powers that be" tell you to stop protesting and you do, you are a sheep

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago



[-] 3 points by Sly (19) from Brattleboro, VT 11 years ago

No, this is definitely abuse. What you describe in Syria and Egypt would be more appropriately termed "massacre."

They were all manhandled after being sprayed anyway. They were expecting to be arrested, that's why they sat down. The police told them to move, so they respectfully declined and sat. The police should then have taken them away one by one. That is how it SHOULD have gone down.

Pepper spray is actually very harmful and is only legally cleared in use against someone who is attacking violently. Pepper spray is very harmful and has caused deaths. This use was illegal. http://www.llrmi.com/articles/legal_update/pepperspray.shtml

[-] -1 points by hotrod02 (21) 11 years ago

Can you detail exactly which deaths it has caused? I know a little bit about it because I carry it, I have taken courses on its use and its been used on me several times. I know the effects intimately. Have you ever been sprayed by Fox Labs Pepper Spray? I have and its painful, but not deadly.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 years ago

Abuse means the following: verb.

  1. to use wrongly or improperly; misuse: to abuse one's authority.
  2. to treat in a harmful, injurious, or offensive way: to abuse a horse; to abuse one's eyesight.
  3. to speak insultingly, harshly, and unjustly to or about; revile; malign.
  4. to commit sexual assault upon. noun
  5. wrong or improper use; misuse: the abuse of privileges.
  6. harshly or coarsely insulting language: The officer heaped abuse on his men.
  7. bad or improper treatment; maltreatment: The child was subjected to cruel abuse.
  8. a corrupt or improper practice or custom: the abuses of a totalitarian regime.
  9. rape or sexual assault.

This is clearly abuse by definition. The argument is whether the protester's actions warranted this abusive (to treat in a harmful, injurious, or offensive way) action. You make the argument that the police have rights, but so do people. You should educate yourself on when it is considered legal to use pepper spray on citizens. There is a link on a post by Sly a little further down. Very informing information.

[-] 2 points by dealdoctor (148) 11 years ago

"If I were in the protesters situation, I would have obeyed the man lawful orders they were given." Non-Violent protest by definition does not simply follow orders. It is a tactic short of violence(war) that does resist. Martin Luther King, Jr. did not simply follow orders. If he had blacks would still be treated as second class citizens. Following orders is NOT always the best thing. Man's laws are manmade. Humans can be greedy, wrong, and oppressive. This is a movement that is NOT carrying weapons but DOES resist. Injustice is in the land. Our good is no longer crowned with brotherhood. People are standing up to say individual freedom has a limit when it comes to being a bully. Corporations are using financial clout to bully their weaker neighbors. Are you really ok with that?

[-] 2 points by BTKcongress (149) 11 years ago

BTW: it does not matter whether you think it's not abuse, the claim the pepper sprayed should be making is "illegal use of excessive force;" and under the circumstances, it would appear entirely reasonable that a judge would agree--which could put some nice $ in the protesters' pockets. but you, and the police I assume, know human nature. there is a tipping point when peaceful protest changes,,, and the police don't want that result, but they're sure pushing it, every day, closer to that tipping point.

[-] 2 points by corbini157 (91) 11 years ago

No, this is abuse. It's not abuse to the level that occurs in Syria, but it's still abuse.

[+] -9 points by KelliMcK (-10) from Waterford, NJ 11 years ago

The part of the story that you don't get to see is that they were peacefully asked repeatedly to clear the pathway for safety reasons and because their was a need to let things through. If they would have obeyed the law and moved for just the time needed they could have avoided the consequences. Instead they decided to put on a show. They were warned and warned and did not obey. This is what happens. It's not an abuse of power...it's an ignorance of the law.

[-] 5 points by Crid (6) 11 years ago

Fine ... Arrest em. But pepper spray'em til they are vomiting blood? At point blank range? When they cant use thier arms...? Cmere... Let me do it to you.



[-] -2 points by shabutie2112 (-2) 11 years ago

Crid your an idiot they disobeyed the peaceful request of an officer of the law whose job is to ensure to his fullest potential that the laws are up held he gets paid for this and these people have no respect for that individual and instead breaks the law and chants at him like a mindless drone. They deserve everything that comes to them when you break the law there are consequences to that action except when your a democrat senator that is

[-] 2 points by rebtris (19) 11 years ago

Don't you mean there are consequences for breaking the law unless you're a Republican President or Vice-President? Ever heard of just arresting someone instead of spraying them with pepper spray. This was definitely abuse!

[-] 2 points by Crid (6) 11 years ago

"To his fullest potential? " something tells me THEY are gonna find out what an angry mob's fullest potential is real soon if they don't cut that shit out. You see them all cowarding up into a little daisy chain in the end? Man, it's retards like you that bow down unquestioning whenever smacked around that put us where we are in the first place.

[-] 2 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 11 years ago

But the Davis Occupiers did the right thing. They are not a mob. Kudos to them. Davis Occupiers correctly assessed the psychological situation, and they diffused tension, which incidentally is something that the police should have been trained to do.


[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

You're the idiot, because you don't know how to use proper grammar and punctuation. I don't listen to people who ramble and don't know effective English grammar, spelling, and punctuation.

[-] 3 points by andthetruthwillsetyoufree (16) 11 years ago

Actually it's called civil disobedience and the idea is to show the world the violence of the opponent while remaining nonviolent yourself, to try to get through to the opponent's soul so they will stop harming others and themselves. Do not blame the protesters for being peppersprayed. We are all responsible for what we do and the police chose to harm peaceful protesters. They'll have to answer to God for their brutality when their lives are over, and if you don't believe in that, they'll have to look themselves in the mirror knowing they were part of something shameful.


[-] 2 points by rebtris (19) 11 years ago

It's called civil disobediance.

[-] 2 points by Peace1969 (5) from Billerica, MA 11 years ago

They may not have obeyed, but that's no reason to abuse them. At least in my opinion it's not. I can see where you're coming from, though, I suppose.

[-] 2 points by Thinkdeer (250) 11 years ago


[-] 1 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 11 years ago

I see, so you think that it is proper for people to make arbitrary demands on threat of violence.

You're a savage, plain and simple.

[-] 10 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 11 years ago

The pepper spraying of seated protestors, who posed no threat to anyone, is unconscionable. What is the name of that officer? What law enforcement agency does he work for? Where do we call to demand the immediate firing of this man who is a danger to public safety?

[-] 6 points by mee (6) 11 years ago

Lt. John Pike is his name. here is his cell number tell him how you feel 530-979-0184. Ask him who he serves.

[-] 1 points by sufinaga (513) 11 years ago

LT JOHN PIKE. put up photos of him and his family. prosecute this scum.


[-] -1 points by sufinaga (513) 11 years ago

as a community we must protect our young people from christians and fascist cops in any way we can. LT JOHN PIKE spread his name on every site, every phone in! NAME AND SHAME! anyone who defends him is an ENEMY OF OUR COMMUNITY.

[-] 2 points by marpwv18 (26) 11 years ago

UC Davis Police Chief Annette Spicuzza said the decision to use pepper spray was made at the scene. "The students had encircled the officers," she said. "They needed to exit. They were looking to leave but were unable to get out."


Note to self: Withdraw application to UC Davis immediately.

[-] 1 points by sufinaga (513) 11 years ago

we must RESPECT OUR COMMUNITY and defend these student victims of the AOPD. put his photo on a WANTED POSTER.

[-] 0 points by bankrun2011 (89) 11 years ago

We don't call anywhere. We engage in direct action that changes the power relations in society. Acts like this occur because people have been apathetic and apolitical. The more we act like grown-ups the less police will show/feel entitled to this sort of contempt for the people...

[-] 5 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 11 years ago

What to do you mean 'direct action'? Isn't an ocean of calls from all around the country a direct action?

[-] 4 points by bankrun2011 (89) 11 years ago

Not really, I mean perhaps technically it is a very timid one. When we call we are asking another to change the relation for us. We need to do it ourselves. Go to his house. Sit on the lawn tell the neighbors and so on. Seattle Solidarity network does this sort of stuff it works very well.

[-] 4 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 11 years ago

Thanks for clarifying. IMO, calling for his immediate firing is a logical first step. If he is not fired yes, additional direct actions are necessary.

[-] 2 points by Raulduke (14) 11 years ago

What did he do that he would get fired for? Pepper spraying an actively resistant angry mob refusing to follow commands? The whole thing is silly I agree I doubt he'll be fired though. Will the students face some kind of academic punishment? Their parents must be pissed. Dad I got arrested. For what? Well I was sitting on a sidewalk and the stupid cops told me to move. Then what? Well I just chanted who do you work for then I got pepper sprayed. Oh yeah they told me I could get kicked out of school too but I don't want to go anyway because I won't be able to find a job or afford my student loans. Can you come bail me out?

[-] 3 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 11 years ago

Did you watch the video? It was not an angry mob at all. These people were sitting peacefully on the ground. Don't distort the facts to try to justify this outrageous assault.

[-] 3 points by Raulduke (14) 11 years ago

No distortion here. I think your confused what peacefully sitting entails. For example right now I'm peacefully sitting on my couch writing rants on my phone. The people in the video were defying lawful orders to disperse. Part of an angry mob chanting about percentages. Your going to get pepper sprayed if you don't move. They wanted to get sprayed. Not me that stuff stings. But it goes away after a half hour. Oh well it makes for good videos. I haven't seen any occupados getting tazed yet. Any have any links?

[-] 5 points by NoPartySystem (10) 11 years ago

The idea that those orders to disperse should even be "lawful" in the first place is what we should question. It isn't enough to say that the protesters had it coming because they acted illegally. There are tons of ridiculous (racist, classist, gendered, and sexuality-normative) laws and discourses that SHOULD NOT be followed. I am grateful for the UC Davis students' subversion of those laws and those ideas. Remember: the government makes the laws. Who makes the government?


[-] 2 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

Protest peacefully IS NOT UNLAWFUL. Get your facts straight, please. I don't give a shit what the cops told them to do. It doesn't mean they are above the Constitution.


[-] 2 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 11 years ago

Does sitting down justify pepper spray? I don't think so - and the chancellor of the university is having a task force review what happened.

You may not have seen these "violent" protesters being "nudged" by police at the other U Cal:


The words in quotes are from a police captain and the media reports. The use of batons, as shown, can kill. Google "Harry Houdini" for a death from a similar blow.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 years ago

The majority of this argument you put forth revolves around your apparently psychic ability to assume to know the minds of the parents of people you have never even met. For all you know, the parents encouraged their child to stand their ground and will soon be suing the policeman for excessive use of force.

[-] 2 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 11 years ago

And the excessive use of force resulted in ? ...having to wash their faces. There's no injury there that a lawsuit could go after, so lawsuits for pepper spray usually fail unless the person had to have a hospital visit for aggravating a pre-condition (like asthma). It even washes out of clothing, so you can't sue that it ruined your hoodie. That's why pepper spray is used to get people to comply, it works, its safe, and the courts have supported it.
Sorry to say, this is what getting arrested looks like. when you make the choice to get arrested, you choose this.

[-] 3 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 years ago

If I kick someone when they are already down on the ground, I'm going to get accused of foul play by most people's standards of fairness. The images of pepper-spraying somebody sitting on the ground just doesn't pass the visual test for me. The police, who serve and protect the public, are well within their rights to arrest anyone breaking the laws, but let's remember - these are not hardened criminals, they are students engaging in a protest. Does anyone on this forum believe we should merely write letters to our congressmen and women and expect anything to change.

[-] 2 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

Some people are just fucking stupid. They don't get it. They don't understand what a protest is about. They think we should obey those in power at all costs and for any reason, even when those in power are abusing their power. They (those who believe this way) are a huge part of the problem.

[-] 3 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 years ago

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory" Leonardo da Vinci

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

Right on.

[-] 2 points by teachkat (23) 11 years ago

And somepeople are so stupid the will mindlessly follow a cult socialist regime.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 years ago

“If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names.” Elbert Hubbard.

[-] 1 points by Raulduke (14) 11 years ago

Nope. Nobody's parents want their their babies togo to a sit in and receive a face full of ouchies. I'm no psychic. But I will confer with each of these students parents to settle this argument. Could someone please provide their names, phone numbers and addresses. Nobody will be sued. And the beat goes on.

[-] 0 points by ComunistUSA (58) 11 years ago

your right, not everyone has parents who can instill common sense into their children. So you are probably correct that some "parents" might blame the police instead of their children.

[-] 0 points by sufinaga (513) 11 years ago

we must act against him in any way we can. NAME AND SHAME LT JOHN PIKE. use your imagination to destroy his delusions. interview his family and friends. spread his address. lets have a fair trial!!?!?! just expose this psychopath.

[-] -1 points by ComunistUSA (58) 11 years ago

Try that in Texas ; ) One step on the private property and that will be the last thing you ever stand for.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 years ago

I live in Texas. If somebody wants to occupy my lawn and do nothing more than sit down. Feel free.

[-] 2 points by ComunistUSA (58) 11 years ago

and that is your right. and shooting them is mine.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 years ago

I suppose under certain conditions it would be lawful, but I doubt it would be lawful to shoot someone for only sitting on your lawn.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

I agree. It is not lawful to shoot someone just for trespassing. It's interesting to see what the accepted mentality is in Texas. I'm glad I never moved there.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 years ago

Texas still has too many people with the wild west mentality - you know walk tall and carry a big stick.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

Exactly.... and they think this is perfectly fine and no one should question authority. It makes my head spin.

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 11 years ago

IN some states, it is lawful. 'Castle Doctrine' gives people the power to defend their homes from anything that 'might lead to a violent attack'. The home defender only has to believe they might be unsafe from the trespasser.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 years ago

There is nothing wrong with a law empowering people to defend property and self. What is wrong is when any power is abused. If someone we're breaking into my home and I truly felt threatened, I wouldn't hesitate to do whatever I had to do in order to protect my butt. In that situation, I should be able to protect myself. But what if it was a teenager I caught sneaking through my backyard just to take a shortcut? The argument becomes one of consciousness and one's view of how to wield power with responsibility, no?

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago


[-] 1 points by ComunistUSA (58) 11 years ago

A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect his property to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, theft during the nighttime or criminal mischief during the nighttime, and he reasonably believes that the property cannot be protected by any other means."

I believe trespassing would be considered criminal mischief. The only hang up is "night time" which was defined 30mins before sunrise and 30mins after sunset.

"It is not necessary that there should be actual danger, as a person has the right to defend his life and person from apparent danger as fully and to the same extent as he would have were the danger real, as it reasonably appeared to him from his standpoint at the time."

[-] 3 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 years ago

I'll take you for your word on this because you seem better informed about the subject than I am. And I don't deny anyone their rights to protect their property or self from danger, apparent or real. I'm only saying I wouldn't shoot someone for sitting on my lawn who appeared to be no threat to me. I'm saying in relation to whether the cops used excessive force or not, I personally did not see a real threat. From what I heard on the news, the police's official statement is that they felt threatened by the crowd encircling them. We certainly don't live in a world of black and white where everything is cut and dry, so from their interpretation of the threat, the police have a valid claim. I just don't agree with their assessment of the threat. But I can now see where you or they assessed the situation differently.

[-] 3 points by ComunistUSA (58) 11 years ago

I almost can't believe someone associated with this movement is able to look at issues from more than one perspective. Thank you for these statements of understanding. You have not restored any faith in me, but at least I do not have such a cynical view for ALL of these protesters as I did initially.

[-] 5 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 years ago

I'm all about fairness which is why I support these protesters, but I appreciate other's intelligence and a right to have their own point of view. I also thank you for not dumbing me down for my ignorance on a subject and just explaining the matter with civility.

[-] 2 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

For someone who thinks that the protesters only have one view, you are guilty of that yourself. That's hypocrisy.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

If someone is threatening you or your life, then I agree that it would be lawful to shoot them. But if someone simply trespasses on your lawn and sits there, you'll rot away in prison (hopefully) if you shoot them just for trespassing.

[-] 1 points by FernandoG (9) from St Petersburg, FL 11 years ago

If this is the way the Occupy Movement is going, then you just lost my support. It's sad because I also want changes and feel this country is not going where it should but this is the kind of talk that is wrong... I feel so much hate from this movement, like if people don't agree with you, you react with contempt. I will read more and hope that others are more rational..

[-] 2 points by teachkat (23) 11 years ago

Dont count on changing your mind. I came for the same reason asas you and these are a bunch of single minded socialist. Yes read but know they will delete many of opposing comments. Some of mine are here but many are deleted.

[-] 1 points by divineright (664) 11 years ago

Just keep in mind some trolls here like to pose as OWS extremists. And there are probably a few genuine extremists as there are in any group. Don't let it get you down. Focus on the positive.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 years ago

Please read the following before making up your mind Fernando,


Does this sound like hate coming from an elected official in high office?


Do you think the majority of the hate messages posted on here are legit. Is it possible some people are already posting here trying to mislead the public. How do you know that the hate messages against the police are not planted here to sway people who identify with the Movement to drop ship. It's called propaganda. Is some of the hate talk legit. I'm sure some of it is. But I'm extremely dubious if it is all genuine. My advice to you is to ONLY put stock in the rational messages posted here and you will get a clearer picture of what the movement stands for and what it is truly up against and hopefully help you to see past any intentional smears and the infrequent jerk offs and stand in solidarity.

Thanks for reading

[-] 2 points by bankrun2011 (89) 11 years ago

um....to say that what that cop did is "disagreeing with us" is frankly ridiculous. He went well beyond his duty, and what the law allows, and if he is not given any kind of reprimand by the department what else do you propose should be done? We should just suffer in impotent silence?

[-] 1 points by divineright (664) 11 years ago

As for that officer, he needs to be fired. That kind of conduct should ban him from ever being in a position of power over another human being. He needs to get a mental health evaluation/treatment and try to get his life together.

[-] 1 points by bankrun2011 (89) 11 years ago

"That kind of conduct should ban him from ever being in a position of power over another human being"

Yes, but that sort of conduct seems to me to be the essence of power...

[-] 1 points by divineright (664) 11 years ago

Power, yes...leadership or anything deserving respect...no.

[+] -6 points by Mooks (1985) 11 years ago

You don't know how long they were sitting there, what they were blocking, whose property it was, etc. They obviously knew it was coming because they were all bundled up and ready for it.

[-] 4 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 11 years ago

it doesn't matter how long, whose property, or what they were blocking (unless maybe an emergency room). It is wrong to use pepper spray on people who pose no immediate physical threat. The police could have arrested them without injuring them.


[-] -1 points by Mooks (1985) 11 years ago

How? They were bound together in little balls and would not move.

Say it is my business and I want them out. I call you, the police, and you see that situation. What would you do?

[-] 2 points by JProffitt71 (222) from Burlington, VT 11 years ago

There was more than enough muscle to pull them apart. They are supposed to be trained for this. Fucking seriously...

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 11 years ago

You don't think people are a lot more likely to get hurt if it turns into a wrestling match? As soon as those people wash their face they will be fine. They did exactly what they are trained to do.

[-] 9 points by nucleus (3291) 11 years ago

That cop should be prosecuted on however many counts of assault and violation of constitutional rights. stripped of his job (and health care and pension) and sentenced to the maximum possible jail time.

The rest of cops participating should be prosecuted for failing to protect citizens and aiding and abetting these crimes to the full extent of the law.

[-] 9 points by pissedoffconstructionworker (602) 11 years ago

Your "three type of cop" thing is veering dangerously close to anti-police, and that's EXACTLY the reaction the enemy wants to create.

If OWS becomes a "fight the cops" movement like the early 70s SDS, we're doomed.

Cops are the 99, full stop.

[-] 3 points by dreamingforward (394) from Gothenburg, NE 11 years ago

Hmmm, if cops are the 99, then, judging from their behavior, they must have turned into semi-drone agents executing orders from a "higher source". If that's the case then how do you undermine the force in which they are executing those questionable orders from above? Get elected, is one.

Answer: undermine the underlying principles in which they operate. The Pledge of Allegience says "liberty and justice for all" -- if they haven't met their side of the bargain, they can't morally be claiming to be enforcing legitimate (i.e. just) orders.

[-] 2 points by sufinaga (513) 11 years ago

cops are freemason thugs. they are servants of the ENEMY. they are the PIGS IN THE MIDDLE. they are free to join us but first prosscute them!!

[-] 2 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 11 years ago

We need to convince them to come to the other side. They are people too.

Still Im for Passive resistence.

[-] 8 points by andthetruthwillsetyoufree (16) 11 years ago

Thank you for posting this. I live in Davis and just last night I was stopped by the police in my car. The officer made a false accusation and I whipped out my cell phone and filmed him and the evidence that I hadn't done what he said. He told me in an authoritative tone of voice to put away my cell phone as if it was illegal which unfortunately might work on people who don't know their rights. He also told me, as have numerous Davis police officers, that my right to remain silent didn't apply when I told him I was taking it. Only a judge can order you to speak to a police officer per the ACLU!!! I recognized one of the cops in the video actually. Another problem with the Davis police is that they refuse to show you their ID. These guys in the video are wearing special uniforms that show their names. Usually they wear uniforms that only show their badge number and then refuse to show you their ID. Last night I was in my car when they stopped me and when I stopped filming for a moment one officer told another to try to open the other car doors so they could do God knows what to me. I also filmed a sargent lying about the police being able to check vehicle information on their car computers. The important thing is to recognize that the police are full of lies and manipulation and not to react in fear or make the mistake of believing that you can trust them farther than you can throw them. They were threatening me with arrest last night to try to manipulate me. It seems like the best souls in America are getting arrested these days doesn't it? These students are so courageous and what the police don't understand is that whenever they brutalize innocent people they create individuals who will never again trust the police for the rest of their lives.
My thanks to Captain Lewis for standing up for what's right, and another example of an honorable police officer is Kathryn Bolkovac, the subject of the movie "The Whistleblower," who fought institutionalized sex trafficking by the UN. Sad that there are so few examples. What kind of people are the police officers beating and pepperspraying? Some people like to have a job where they can act sadistically and never be punished for it and even be rewarded. My father used to be a cop and I've heard him laughing about how he used to beat people up on duty and no one ever did anything to him about it. He was abusive to his children too.

[-] 3 points by FernandoG (9) from St Petersburg, FL 11 years ago

It is sad that you have had such a bad experience with your dad, I guess that is why you have such contempt for the officers. In my world, I went to school in Los Angeles and was stopped a lot too when I attended college. I got into my share of trouble growing up and did things that I would never tell my kids about. Because of that, I moved to Florida where I had a business and relied on the police for assistance often. In all those times I ran into officers both in uniform and off duty, they acted with the utmost professionalism and respect. But officers are human too and they have tempers and they could lie and yes, they could do all those things that you say they did to you. I don't know, I wasn't there. But I just want to say that there are a lot of good officers out there that work hard to keep you and me safe.

[-] 2 points by monjon22 (508) 11 years ago

My grandfather was a NYC lieutenant. He used to beat his own sons with his billy club!

All police officers must be willing to beat people up -- it is a job requirement. They are trained in the art of beating unarmed civilians up -- how to cause maximum pain with minimal permanent injury. So even if most cops are good, a certain type of character is a job requirement -- the officer must still be capable of extreme violence. Sometimes they get a bit carried away.

[-] 7 points by dealdoctor (148) 11 years ago

At the Nuremberg War Criminal Trials after World War II it was clearly decided that " I was just following orders." was NOT and excuse for killing Jews in the concentration camps. Lt. Calley with the My Lai Massacre proved that just following orders to commit an an immoral action is NOT justified even in war time. These cops are following orders BUT they are doing something VERY immoral and illegal. They are NOT to be given a pass. They are NOT robots and should be accounted guilty as American citizens. They are a SHAME....

[-] 2 points by gjjemhunter (16) 11 years ago

yep - don't assume police are smart or have a conscience. they are usually dumb thugs who love to bully and need some beer cash. Don't let them hurt you. Bring video cameras, masks, shields, big mean dogs, lawyers and the FBI if you are connected and anticipate illegal police aggression.

[-] 1 points by ComunistUSA (58) 11 years ago

Did you really just compare getting pepper sprayed to watching your family forced into gas chambers at Auschwitz?

[-] 4 points by JProffitt71 (222) from Burlington, VT 11 years ago

While hyperbolic, in this case it is still valid logic. Answering to a system that is driving humanity into the ground is still unethical. The police should be drawing lines on what they will do to nonviolent citizens, and considering the real public that they promised to serve.

[-] -1 points by ComunistUSA (58) 11 years ago

So you want to radically change society and be protected and served by it at the same time?

[-] 3 points by JProffitt71 (222) from Burlington, VT 11 years ago

Society can be composed of more than one dimension. The police should be on the public's side in changing the broken political system.

[-] 1 points by ComunistUSA (58) 11 years ago

I am a member of the public, and If I would have wanted to use the walk way that my tax dollars helped pay on that particular day I would have been impeded by this group of people that DO NOT REPRESENT MY VIEWS even tough I would statistically fit into the 99% category. So using your statement I believe that the police are on the public's side on most if not all of these conflicts.

[-] 4 points by JProffitt71 (222) from Burlington, VT 11 years ago

Did you just equate walking on a side walk to freedom to assemble and discuss fixing this broken ass country?

[-] 1 points by ComunistUSA (58) 11 years ago

No, my point was that I do not agree with protesters impeding me. I consider myself the public, and I believe the police served me quite thoroughly. So yes the police are serving the public's best interests by clubbing your friends.

[-] 3 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 years ago

In different times and under different circumstances, I think the majority of people would see things your way. Law and Order matters. But we live in times of heavy corruption and social inequality. So we have an uprising against that system. Protesters impede a public sidewalk exactly because it will force someone to take notice. And hopefully get people to see what you clearly don't want to see, which is a broken and corrupt system which only works for the elites and not for the 99%. The more people who see this and focus on a solution to that problem the sooner we can get back to the normal Law and Order of normal times - under a better system fair to all.

[-] 4 points by monjon22 (508) 11 years ago

No one has absolute rights. Sometimes rights conflict and a decision must be made of whose rights are more right. Need must be weighed. Here I would think that freedom of speach (society's need for an honest system with social equality) outweighs the temporary inconvenience of a blocked sidewalk.

[-] 3 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

You are so right. Some refuse to see this, however.

[-] 2 points by ComunistUSA (58) 11 years ago

I do not deny that there is a problem, but I don't think OWS has Identified it properly. As a result I can show no support. The police or the 1% are not the enemy. The government is. If this becomes the call to arms, I will be there right next to you. OWS is wasting one of the greatest opportunities for revolution I will ever see in my lifetime, and this saddens me.

[-] 3 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 years ago

I think government is certainly a huge part of the problem. I think the 1% label is misleading because not all millionaires and billionaires are bad people. But there are those at the top who influence, or should I say corrupt, politicians with their considerable finances to pass unfair laws. I agree that neither the police or all of the 1% are the problem. But who is pulling the strings of government these days? It doesn't appear to be the middle class or poor.

[-] 0 points by ComunistUSA (58) 11 years ago

The fact that strings are even able to be pulled is the root. Sure the elite shouldn't try to influence politics, but it is our flawed system that allows the influence.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 years ago

Yes, our elected officials are supposed to represent the constituents that put them in office and not special interests. I don't care whether you are more of a left thinker, right thinker, or right down the center. I just want a system that more fairly represents the majorities interests.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

It's both.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 11 years ago

The government is the 1%. They control the government 100%. Your vote does not count at all. You can vote in Party A or Party B -- both under 100% control of the 1%.

[-] 1 points by ComunistUSA (58) 11 years ago

This comes as a shock to no one.

[-] 2 points by monjon22 (508) 11 years ago

So if you agree that the 1% control the government 100%, how can you say that they are not the enemy?

[-] 0 points by ComunistUSA (58) 11 years ago

That wouldn't make you think that the government could possibly be the problem for allowing all of this to happen?

[-] 2 points by jgarcia (25) 11 years ago

Life is full of inconveniences - it just depends on the degree. Sometimes I can't walk on the sidewalk. Sometimes over a trillion dollars of taxpayer money is paid over to reckless financial institutions to bail them out because of reckless investments to create false profits to obtain multi-million dollar bonuses. These bonuses are paid from our tax payer money that could have been used to rebuild our roads, bridges, energy system, fund social security, fund medicare or fund national health. On the scale of inconvenience I would say the latter weighs more. Where is your anger over the transfer of over a trillion dollars by bush, hank paulsen (former CEO of goldman sachs) obama, etc to AIG, GM, Merrill Lynch, Bank of America, Chase Goldman Sachs, and reckless borrowers? If this theft is not worthy of protest, than nothing is. Support OWS and maybe there is some hope for a little less corruption in virtually all facets of life in the U.S. You do not have to accept "business as usual".

[-] 3 points by dealdoctor (148) 11 years ago

No silly person (grin). I pointed out that under ALL circumstances the EXCUSE of " I was just following orders" does not give ANYONE a pass for doings ANYTHING immoral all the way from A-Z in ALL PLACES AND AT ALL TIMES in ANY DEGREE. " I was just following orders" does not exempt someone from moral responsibility. BIG principle LOTS of applications.

[-] 1 points by ComunistUSA (58) 11 years ago

your statement would be wonderful if you could assume the entire human race agrees with your interpretation of moral responsibility.

[-] 1 points by dealdoctor (148) 11 years ago

It would be great if the 99% would agree. We both know the 1% never will. (grin). Hey, do no harm. Don't bite others if you do not want to be bit. Simple. Don't over complicate morality. Pepper spray in the face of college kids or 84 year old ladies is just WRONG. Killing innocent Jews is off the charts just WRONG. Fuck anyone who thinks either is ok morally they are idiots.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

You're really clueless.

[-] 1 points by undernamenothing (14) from Napoli, Campania 11 years ago

Shame on those agents who have done a wicked time! http://www.lalavatrice.it/media/v/occupy-wall-street-in-the-night

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

You really are clueless, aren't you?

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 11 years ago

yes he did. Pepper spray washes off which is why its the preferred method of gaining compliance without touching/injuring the person you're trying to arrest. Death doesn't wash off.

[-] 0 points by ComunistUSA (58) 11 years ago

I cant tell what point you are making here. are you saying it is correct to compare being pepper sprayed to being executed?

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 11 years ago

hell no. that's a fool's argument.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 11 years ago

Those Nazis started small too. Little by little they took the rights of the Jews away -- ever increasing their theft of their liberties. Ultimately they took lives.

[-] 6 points by therevolutionisnow (15) 11 years ago

I really love this article, it really exposes the pigs and what there doing . It shows us the 99% can defeat the enemy the 1 % by just peacefully protesting and spreading a real message to the youth and the real owners of this country . This is going on world wide and everyday we seem to get more and more people to wake up and realize this pro slave reality that we live in . I SALUTE OCCUPY WALL ST & EVERYBODY WHOSE ABOUT IT .


[-] 6 points by Amphissa (6) 11 years ago

Keep the cameras rolling, not only in the streets but in any public forum where Wall Street folks are conducting business as the expense of the 99%.

[-] 6 points by argheebe (11) 11 years ago

interesting to see the cops back away. Never trust the strong arms of the system. Yep, cops may be won over, eventually, but they know who butters their bread. This ain't the 60s, there are lotz and lotz of cameras watching...What a grand moment we stand in!

[-] 5 points by dakota (62) from Canton, MI 11 years ago

We need our brave solders to come home and protect the citizens of this country from a corrupted police state. The war isn't in Iraq, it isn't in Afghanistan, it is in America. Democracy in America is under attack. The congress is party to the corruption. Our President is a useless political puppet that will not step in and stop the abuse of our citizens. Our solders have seen oppression. Our citizens have seen oppression.

[-] 5 points by jgarcia (25) 11 years ago

Remember - do not just focus on these police officers. There is a whole org chart involved in the decision making for this brutality to occur. We must push and find out who is making these decisions. I suspect local, state and federal entities are involved as well as organizations representing big business. We need not to lose sight of the bigger picture. By the way, those kids are great!

[-] 3 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 years ago

Smartest strategical comment I've read here so far. This is one incident in a much larger movement.

[-] 2 points by gjjemhunter (16) 11 years ago

University President did this. They talk in secret and promise to deny any responsibility if things go wrong. They should be prosecuted for conspiracy to pay law enforcement to assault it's students. The students needs to get lawyers and sue the University. The police follow orders - they did not make this decision.

[-] 5 points by kblee (2) 11 years ago

My God.......are we in the USA???????

[-] 3 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 11 years ago

Yep, it's been this way for a long time. In addition to things like the Kent State Massacre, there were things like the Ludlow Massacre where they used Gatling guns against striking miners. There's the Homestead Strike, the Pullman Strike, etc. etc.

The United States has a very long history of using ever escalating violence to serve the interests of the wealthy. First the police, then the national guard, then even the army.

If enough people act and vote and speak out, hopefully we can make it so the violent escalation that so typifies our history never comes to pass.

[-] 2 points by rebtris (19) 11 years ago

And isn't it funny how you never were taught a single word about all those uprisings in public school? They tried to sweep every bit of it under the rug. I was amazed at all the uprisings we have in our history that I had never heard about until I read "A People's History of the United States". There is definitely an effort to alienate us from our history and have us honoring all the wrong people with our holidays etc. It seems like more and more people are starting to see through the lies.

[-] 0 points by Sharpie933 (20) 11 years ago

Actually, I was taught quite a few uprisings in the United States in high school. But then again I actually went to class rather than ditching to go smoke weed. I think that might explain a lot. What's next, are you going to mention how its funny that they never taught ABC's either?

[-] 2 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 11 years ago

It depends on where you went to school, so hold your insults.

I went to school in Texas, I was a top student, and prided myself in my studies. Still, the information was simply left out. They also told us that slavery was not a primary concern of the Civil War, rather it was that the North had put tariffs on European textiles which put Southern cotton sellers at a disadvantage on who they could sell to.

It's a big country and not everything is the same everywhere. In most places, history is taught as jingoist propaganda.

[-] 1 points by Sharpie933 (20) 11 years ago

I guess they missed the part where South Carolina's declaration of secession mentioned slavery 39 times.

[-] 3 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 11 years ago

I remember when I was done with high school and my bachelors when I finally had time to sit and think.

After a while, a question appeared in my mind: "How do you have an agricultural export economy without slavery?" It wasn't until then that I realized that maybe the education I received growing up was not based on 100% facts.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

I missed, on average, 2 school days per year. I NEVER was taught ANYTHING about ANY uprisings, protests, etc. And I've NEVER smoked weed before. I graduated 2nd in my class. Get your ignorant, biased head out of your ass, please.

[-] 0 points by Sharpie933 (20) 11 years ago

Well, it sounds like your school was pretty substandard, so being 2nd in your class doesn't sound like such a feat.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

Um... well, I did have a 3.94 grade point average, and I earned a full, four-year academic scholarship to the 3rd largest university in Michigan, so I guess you're full of shit.

People like you are who drag our whole country down. You should focus on what you can do to evolve instead of being a menace to society.

[-] 0 points by Sharpie933 (20) 11 years ago

The 3rd largest university in Michigan? Wow. How was the course of study at DeVry?

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

Is wasn't Devry, fucking asshole. It's a state university that has been in existence since 1868.

Wayne State University

Founded in 1868, Wayne State University is a nationally recognized metropolitan research institution offering more than 400 academic programs through 13 schools and colleges to nearly 32,000 students. Wayne State’s main campus in Midtown Detroit comprises 100 buildings over nearly 200 acres; its five extension centers offer higher education to people throughout Southeast Michigan.

Wayne State is dedicated to preparing students to excel by combining the academic excellence of a major research university with the practical experience of an institution that by its history, location and diversity represents a microcosm of the world we live in. Reflecting its location and the excellent international reputation of its graduate schools, particularly in the sciences, Wayne State boasts the most diverse student body among Michigan’s public universities. Its students represent 49 U.S. states and more than 60 countries.


[-] 1 points by NotRichEnough (18) 11 years ago

I didn't get pepper sprayed today, and none I know has ever been sprayed. How come? Seems that less than .00000000001 of Americans have ever been pepper prayed...


[-] 5 points by FHampton (309) 11 years ago

"Police used batons to try to push the students apart. Those they could separate, they arrested, kneeling on their bodies and pushing their heads into the ground. Those they could not separate, they pepper-sprayed directly in the face, holding these students as they did so. When students covered their eyes with their clothing, police forced open their mouths and pepper-sprayed down their throats. Several of these students were hospitalized. Others are seriously injured. One of them, forty-five minutes after being pepper-sprayed down his throat, was still coughing up blood."


[-] 4 points by lafnjim (5) 11 years ago

you all are a bunch of lunatics! in graduate exercises, the speaker says the world is your oyster, make something of yourself. and what do you do? look at you? long hair (cant work the front of a store), drug addled (can't employ you, too dangerous for business) radically bent (bad for sales), where can we put you on the payroll? the 99% of you idiots, have a losers limp! Why do you not protest the 1% of actors that make up the pot of artists that make money. There are 99% of them that dont get hired at auditions, do summer stock for little to no money. Why don't you fuss at the pro athletes, the college athletes? there are millions of high school athletes that wont play college. there are tens of thousands of college athletes that wont go pro! it is the .001 of 1% that make it professionally. Same with media types and on and on. The best get chosen. What have you done? your idealism and tiresome "talking points" have done nothing but alienate the public! do something, start a lemonade stand, make a sale and see how hard it was. Build on your success. No one owes you anything. You owe society something. Your effort, hard work and weight of the collective taxpayers shoulders. You want socialism, go to europe. you want communism, n korea or china will take you.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 11 years ago

If you want fascism, Iran and Syria will take you in.

[-] 4 points by Mjollnir (9) from Sacramento, CA 11 years ago

From Davis, CA

Our Leaders have gone insane.

They believe they can dictate reality by decree.

The police say they were 'surrounded' - look at the video for yourselves and see insanity of that remark.

The Chancellor, the woman whose duty it is to protect students, does not think she failed in her duty - did not even initially say a word about the attack, and only later said it was not a 'proud' day for the university. Despite her job title and massive salary, she suddenly denied she is in charge or should be held responsible. She said she needed to do this because she could not provide 'services' to protesters over the weekend, hence the quad needed to be cleared. Instead she 'serviced' them in her own way.

Our 'Leaders' have been insane, and for the longest time, we all were insane with them. We were all drunk on greed, corrupt on power, untouchable from the repercussions of our actions.

But times are changing?

Learning to bear responsibility for the world gone mad on our watch?

They believe they will not be held accountable for their actions. If they are right, we are lost.

[-] 4 points by Veesmee (5) 11 years ago

Can we quit picking at each other long enough on these message boards to enjoy the fantastic importance of the video above? The protesters moved the cops out of the park with their voices, AFTER the cops had proven themselves willing to use brutal measures without a second thought, and not a single cop fired a single weapon at them again. The cops are obviously afraid, and the people are herding them out, gently pressing from all sides, but still, they remained peaceful, especially after the protestors told them they could go. This is very, very important. If the cops are starting to be unwilling to strike us, then we are close, very close, to those cops with half a brain realizing that they are, in actuality, our allies. Good news, all. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." If that progression holds true, Big Papa Gandhi, I do believe we might be winning... So quit your nitpicking and let's CELEBRATE and keep up the momentum!

[-] 4 points by gjjemhunter (16) 11 years ago

Start dialog with police and City Staff willing to listen. Get them to talk to you. Do not yell at them. They are not the enemy. Ask them for their opinion. Get them to think. Be thoughtful. Make friends. This is the best strategy. People on the ground, especially women need to bring masks of some sort to prevent throat and eye damage caused by CS or pepper spray. Persuading a police majority to defend the people is a step toward real change in government and the way it treats its people.

[-] 4 points by galaxyscout (6) 11 years ago

That is a huge can of pepper spray, as big as a can of spray paint. I think the legal size limit in California is like 2.5 ounces, according to wiki. Amazing display of self restraint by the OWS protesters, little Ghandi's.

[-] 4 points by CherAmi (4) 11 years ago

Send email to:

Linda P.B. Katehi, Chancellor, UC Davis

Mark G. Yudof, President, University of California

Marsha Kelman, Secretary and Chief of Staff to The Regents of the University of California.

The Regents of the University of California

Governor Jerry Brown, member of the Board of Regents, via email form at http://gov.ca.gov/m_contact.php

chancellor@ucdavis.edu, president@ucop.edu, Marsha.Kelman@ucop.edu, regentsoffice@ucop.edu

contact info of Lt. John Pike of the UC Davis police who assaulted these kids. Lt. John Pike — Ph: 530-752-3989 email: japikeiii@ucdavis.edu

If you know students, faculty, satff or alumni of the University of California, ask them to send email as well. Ask them to cc their chancellor (the format is usually: chancellor@<campusineternetname>.edu

Alumni may wish to cc: their alumni president or similar fundraising office.

[-] 4 points by JohnEllis (5) 11 years ago


(1) Our police and our courts, they do not protect people, they protect property. For the degree of protection you receive will be in direct proportion to your property. For in any confrontation between people to be resolved by the police or in court, the party most wealthy always wins. For since 1776, Empire USA has been a money dictatorship.

(2) Law enforcement is all of the Educated Middle-class, and they spend 95% of their time policing young laboring men, that is why 95% of inmates in our jails and prisons are young laboring men. That is why 25% of all prisoners on earth are in our jails and prisons.

(3) Most all of the Occupy movement are among the 49% of society with no wealth. Whereas, police are of the 51% with all the wealth, the 51% voting majority, all with great jobs, terrific homes and deluxe healthcare.

(4) The goal of our Occupy movement is to force the 51% voting majority, the upper half of society, to trickle down sufficient wealth so that we can have safe bridges, adequate education, lifesaving healthcare and a living wage.

[-] 1 points by Raulduke (14) 11 years ago

How much does this guy think cops make?

[-] -2 points by ComunistUSA (58) 11 years ago

Can they buy me a new car too? I really want one, see I don't work as hard as them and don't make as much money. I never had the ambition to do anything, because I am self entitled and believe things should be done for me. I'll take a blue car please.

[-] 4 points by nucleus (3291) 11 years ago

chant for NYPD:


Who Do You Serve?

Who Do You Protect?


[-] 3 points by republican88 (4) 11 years ago

All you people need to leave the this stuff be if they were brutal they would just shoot you and be done. these so called "peaceful" protests are bull. The cops have a job to do and you either listen or suffer the consequences. I do not agree with any of this occupy wall street crap. People are not gonna get anywhere with it. I mean it has worked maybe 10% of the time? ANd not only that half of the people lead by this agenda are jobless and need to just man up. pay your taxes be a good american and blow the stuff out of your ass

[-] 3 points by catbestland (8) 11 years ago

What is the story with Officer Lewis. From the picture it looks like he has decided not to part of this brutal attack on his country folk and has joined them instead. If so, hurray for him. He is a hero.

[-] 2 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 11 years ago

I understand he is not local; he is a retired Philadelphia policeman who retired into seclusion a while ago. He saw on the internet what was going on, and decided to join OWS. He was on UP this morning talking about how the police treated him, why he was arrested, etc

[-] 3 points by shainzona (23) 11 years ago

Read the conclusion to this ruling:

Edited on Sat Nov-19-11 05:14 AM by Fire Walk With Me http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1332957.html HEADWATERS FOREST DEFENSE v. COUNTY OF HUMBOLDT Nine environmental activists and an environmental group brought this action, under 42 U.S.C. § 1983, against the County of Humboldt, the Humboldt County Sheriff’s Department, Eureka City and its police department, and several individual officers, alleging that the officers’ use of pepper spray on the activists’ eyes and faces during three peaceful protests constituted an excessive use of force in violation of their Fourth Amendment rights.   We previously issued an opinion, which is reported at 240 F.3d 1185 (9th Cir.2001), in which we reversed the district court’s decision to grant summary judgment on qualified immunity grounds to Humboldt County Sheriff Dennis Lewis (“Lewis”) and Chief Deputy Sheriff Gary Philip (“Philip”), the defendants who initially authorized the use of the pepper spray on the nonviolent protestors. We also reversed the district court’s decision to enter judgment in favor of Humboldt County, the City of Eureka, and their respective police departments following trial and a hung jury.

Viewing the facts in the light most favorable to the protestors, we conclude that Philip and Lewis are not entitled to qualified immunity because the use of pepper spray on the protestors’ eyes and faces was plainly in excess of the force necessary under the circumstances, and no reasonable officer could have concluded otherwise.

[-] 0 points by argheebe (11) 11 years ago

I hope we can all afford the cost to sue these MFers. Their premise is to act and then worry about litigation ...at a later time. Change does happen and sometimes it requires smart tactics. Stay away from the courts and stay away from the police. They will tie you up and spit you out.

[-] 0 points by BTKcongress (149) 11 years ago

attorneys would represent these protesters on a contingency fee basis (i.e., "I don't get paid until you get paid"). they do seem to have an illegal use of excessive force claim.

[-] 0 points by argheebe (11) 11 years ago

sometimes one might think that it would be easier to have your own pepper spray (for self defense purposes, of course), your own taser (for self defense, of course), your own helmet (for self defense, of course) ....all to protect your right to assemble....if you still think you have a right to assemble. Stay away from the police, use smart defensive tactics, stay out of the courts...simple!

[-] 2 points by nazen (2) 11 years ago

If this was in Syria, China or Iran Intl Human Rights would be screaming out loud.

Is it the end of the Regime in the United States?

[-] 2 points by Wooly (3) 11 years ago

This is halarious! "Shame on You!"...LOL....I betcha if those guys would have moved...like the Police had asked...they would not have been sprayed. Just a guess....

"THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING!".........so what?...

[-] 2 points by Peacedriver (23) 11 years ago

"We now live in a country that deploys military pepper spray on kids with signs...But looks the other way as our large financial institutions almost destroy the global economy through recklessness and deception"chris hayes

[-] 2 points by TimeHasC0me (66) 11 years ago

JFK: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AesVsRvOEo

[-] 2 points by Neal2011 (4) 11 years ago

The anger and frustration that 99% of us feel is apparently directed at many...i.e. Wall Street, the banks, lack of medical care, lack of jobs, more need for the hungry and homeless, right to choose, immigration and twenty other things. The mess we are in is NOT the fault of the republicans nor just the democrats. And frankly if you try to blame one party over the other including the Tea Party well frankly have lost all credibility in your argument. I could go on and on. But I want to place the blame squarely where is belongs. I believe the ONE common denominator that WE the 99% can "blame" besides ourselves it's 535 incompetents in Washington DC. They are the problem! I don't blame the banks etc as much as I do the congressional regulators. Who allows the banks to get away with the corruption and fraud? Who oversees the spending and regulations of all these problems? CONGRESS DAMN IT! Here is an undisputed fact As long as your elected Congress can take money from corporations and special interests your elected official is CORRUPT period! You and I would loose our jobs if we did what Congress has allow themselves to do. They do not hear you OCCUPY...WHY? because we the people are too busy looking out for our particular interest. Don't you find it just a bit curious that beyond a local Mayor taking interest you hear little from Congress? Your frustrations are real...your concerns are real...your fear is real. So you must vote them out of office. They'll hear that. Republicans, Democrats...ALL OF THEM. OCCUPY ARE YOU LISTENING. If you think for one damn second "well my congress person is a good one" BS your a fool. I say take the entire Occupy Movement move it to Washington DC and demand for ALL our elected officials to fix the mess they have put us in NOW. People hear me...we are running out of time. For the sake for your children and grandchildren. I say with a loud and clear voice "THROW THE BUMS OUT!" Unfortunately Congress is incompetent, corrupt and unwilling to do the will of the people.

[-] 2 points by AStone30 (2) 11 years ago

Tea party does this happen.... n ope :) cause you all crazy we don't sit in streeets and try to shut down the cities cause we have brians your all a group of imature children grow a pair and get over it. :D God Bless America

[-] 2 points by Ubuntu (34) from Brooklyn, NY 11 years ago

Just imagine how these policemen will look when their children grow up and see these images in their history books. These men will be a source of shame and disapointment for several generations and they will have to carry that weight from now on. We may fight our good fight and be abused in the process but we will be liberated and we will become free. The police on the other hand have built their own little cage and they now have to live in their own mess. They will not be free from this karma, this baggage, for a long long time.

[-] 2 points by bassmantony330 (2) from Akron, OH 11 years ago

It's really easy to jump on the police, but we have to understand that it is not necessarily their fault. They do provide a necessary service to society, and demonizing them will do nothing but increase friction. It is the leadership that gives the police authorization to use such draconian tactics that should be the focus of our rage. Be careful out there everybody!

[-] 2 points by MitchK (305) 11 years ago

Pepper spray is the use of force NOT EXCESSIVE force...when you break the law,no matter how small or what you feel may be minute,you broke the law. If you do not repsond to an officers request to breaking the law tha he SHOULD use any means to detain you and arrest you....and guesss what NO I am NOT a cop[..infact for years I was and am totaaly opposite of law enforcement...but I never said its their fault when I DO SOMETHING WRONG and they have to use any meens to take me into custody or to stop MY DEFIANT SELF WILLED SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT causing me to break the law. AGAIN now matter how small the infration maybe

[-] 2 points by JACK9NER (2) from New York, NY 11 years ago

that's what they deserve police followed their protocol people should understand don't bite the hand that feeds you

[-] 2 points by sasapesso (2) from Qaraçuxur, Baku 11 years ago

Go ahead occupiers! Thanks to those like you that JUST tax rates enforced upon the filthy rich throughout 40s and 60s.

[see The Bonus Army War (1932), Auto-Lite Strike (1934) West Coast Waterfront Strike (1934), Minneapolis Teamster Strike (1934), Flint Sit-Down Strike (1936) Post-World War II Servicemen's Strike Wave (1945)]

[-] 2 points by boris1421 (13) 11 years ago

I think the thing that the OWS protesters don't really understand is that the people that they are up against can't be embaressed or harassed into submission. They have no concience nor do they hold any value on people except for that of a monetary one. They are driven strictly by greed and the only place they feel pain is in their pocket books. This is the season of the money harvest for many of them. At this time of year, they stock the stores with cheaply made, overpriced merchandise. They then take a phrase that anyone can remember, preferrably from history like "black friday", and create a corporate made mania to attach it to. They bait the consumers the same way a fisherman chums for fish by offering a limited amount of drastically lowered prices on quality items and make them available in such a way that it brings out the worst in people. The greed that is fostered by this event (for the sole purpose of jump starting and hightening christmas season spending) is inexcusable at a time when we are supposed to be giving thanks for what we have, instead of greedily ripping merchandise out of each others hands. We, as citizens united against the big money that controls our government, have to hone our moral values so as not to be a tool of their deceptive tactics. 50 years ago, there were no stores open on Thanksgiving day. Solitude, peace, graditude, and goodwill ruled the day. The day felt special because even those who never stop doing, were forced to wind down and partake in the peace that surrounded them. During this season of thanks, we should show our disgust in the bastardization of the real meaning of thanksgiving and boycott black friday and christmas shopping all together. Instead of giving commercially mass produced christmas presents we should make our gift offerings to freinds or family in the form of money, services, or gifts made by local craftsmen. This way, our gifts of love are not tainted by the knowledge that those who care about us the least are making a commission off of our good will. If the greedy corporations that have stepped on our values do not make near what they projected to make on this season, they may feel that we are a force to be taken seriously and, in turn, we may reap the reward of a holiday season truley full of love of family, goodwill, and joy.

[-] 2 points by boris1421 (13) 11 years ago

I think the thing that the OWS protesters don't really understand is that the people that they are up against can't be embaressed or harassed into submission. They have no concience nor do they hold any value on people except for that of a monetary one. They are driven strictly by greed and the only place they feel pain is in their pocket books. This is the season of the money harvest for many of them. At this time of year, they stock the stores with cheaply made, overpriced merchandise. They then take a phrase that anyone can remember, preferrably from history like "black friday", and create a corporate made mania to attach it to. They bait the consumers the same way a fisherman chums for fish by offering a limited amount of drastically lowered prices on quality items and make them available in such a way that it brings out the worst in people. The greed that is fostered by this event (for the sole purpose of jump starting and hightening christmas season spending) is inexcusable at a time when we are supposed to be giving thanks for what we have, instead of greedily ripping merchandise out of each others hands. We, as citizens united against the big money that controls our government, have to hone our moral values so as not to be a tool of their deceptive tactics. 50 years ago, there were no stores open on Thanksgiving day. Solitude, peace, graditude, and goodwill ruled the day. The day felt special because even those who never stop doing, were forced to wind down and partake in the peace that surrounded them. During this season of thanks, we should show our disgust in the bastardization of the real meaning of thanksgiving and boycott black friday and christmas shopping all together. Instead of giving commercially mass produced christmas presents we should make our gift offerings to freinds or family in the form of money, services, or gifts created by local craftsmen. This way, our gifts of love are not tainted by the knowledge that those who care about us the least are making a commission off of our good will. If the greedy corporations that have stepped on our values do not make near what they projected to make on this season, they may feel that we are a force to be taken seriously and, in turn, we may reap the reward of a holiday season truley full of love of family, goodwill, and joy.

[-] 2 points by photo (2) 11 years ago
[-] 2 points by CerakPunnery (3) 11 years ago

Anyone have video of what happened 10 minutes before they were sprayed? Context anyone?

[-] 2 points by AreUSerious (20) 11 years ago

They were each briefed by the police beforehand that if they continue to block the right of passage on that walkway that they would be pepper sprayed, so they shouldn't have been surprised. That part is edited from the video posted though. Just sayin'.

[-] 2 points by KishinD (9) 11 years ago

"You cannot serve both God and money" - Jesus Which one do you think the cops are serving?

[-] 2 points by LSN45 (535) 11 years ago

The other nations of the world are laughing at us - for all our self-righteous talk about what other nations should do about allowing democratic protests, and then for things like this to happen. Disgusting. For justice to prevail, the riot police should go to Washington and round up the politicians.

[-] 2 points by gjjemhunter (16) 11 years ago

This is your enemy. Learn to defend yourselves. College kids assume these fat stupid cops have the right. Try this on US Army Vets and these punks will be on the ground in a pool of their own blood in .001 seconds. They prey on the unskilled and unarmed. So...time to get skilled and arm up - as least learn to defend yourselves so these paid creeps can't injure you. Large aggressive groups overwhelm, take down and disarm the bullies. Wait for them to attack first.

[-] 1 points by argheebe (11) 11 years ago

Right on, gjjemhunter...!!! just standing around defending myself from the bullies. Right on!

[-] -1 points by NotRichEnough (18) 11 years ago

Wow, you are truly an idiot. There are dumb statements, then there's your completely stupid comment.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 years ago

Why are you on here perpetuating violence as an answer to anything? A large part of what they are protesting is all the wasted money the U.S. spends on war and the, for example, millions of dead Iraqis and the thousands of dead U.S. Vets as a result. Do you even understand the movement? Or perhaps you are here to smear the reputation of peaceful protesters and paint a picture of absolute nonsense that there could possibly be anybody in the movement who shares your unacceptable violent viewpoint. This post is calling for police to be more passive and respectful of the protesters dignity, which every human being has a right to.

[-] 2 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 11 years ago

Time for a reality check, kids.
Reality check #1. This is what getting arrested looks like. You have been sheltered and may not have seen it before.
Reality check #2. When you forcibly block an area ---- you get moved, and you likely get arrested.
Reality check #3. And this, this is the procedural humane way all police are trained, to do that arrest so that you aren't permanently injured. Yep, it hurts like a mo-fo, but pain compliance is accepted method throughout this whole country of police departments. They are all trained the same way, and this is how they do it.

Come on down to earth, little kiddies....You thought this would be all cozy and warm, blocking ports and subways and parks and banks and sidewalks? Was it something you were doing for fun? Disrupting the normal day to day of 'law-abiding' citizens? You thought that would be ok with everyone? You thought it would be allright with the 99%? Well, another reality check..its not ok. With anyone.

So you block everyone's right of way and claim it as your own so they can't pass.
You get arrested for blocking people's right of way.
And this is how its done. And you pretend it wasn't your choice to cause all this to happen. Kids, nobody held a gun to your head to make you sit there, block a port, block a sidewalk, block a park. Those aren't peaceful assembly, those are Forcible Occupation. And ..ahem..against the law..because your rights end where another person's rights begin.

Now that you've joined us in reality land, think you could stretch that a bit and start taking some responsibility for your choices to be in that place, at that time, and breaking that law, so that you got yourself arrested?

[-] 2 points by jane1 (100) 11 years ago

OWS Great Job!! Awesome… Read the article too just in case…. “Two dozen wealthy members of the group Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength are targeting members of the deficit "supercommittee" to increase their taxes.” Higher Taxes By SUSANNA KIM | ABC News – Wed, Nov 16 Good Job Guys OWS, yet the GOP/tea, indep new Congress.is so greedy they won’t even comply or listen! Anything just to protect their money. Don’t blame the wealthy it’s the New Congress voting down any measure that would involve taxing (not even a its worth, minus a maid!) . The Dems have no problem with tax increase nor the Wealthy or the President it’s the new Congress Voting it down time and time again for no increase. Meanwhile their taxing is equivalent to a maid or secretary! The new Congress is the look of America if we vote or they control the United States government. For them all, with no thought or care for the United States of America.! Truly …an horrific sight

[-] 2 points by Newyorkerno1 (9) 11 years ago

Unthinkable. Is this our New America ? Brutality. Fascism !

[-] 2 points by argheebe (11) 11 years ago

a pig is a pig is a pig.....the system needs protection; those who "think" they own the system hire the pigs, who, in turn, pick up paychecks conveniently provided by taxpayers - who then are either indoctrinated to support those who they pay to protect them -- Protect and Serve -- or rise up and hit the streets. The streets are where the actions of change will start and end.
Whatz it gonna be? The gray areas are becoming, more and more, Black and White. We are not getting what we are paying for, people. Let's rise up and hit the streets!

[-] 0 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 11 years ago

The police are not as different as you and I. Most of them live under the same corporate dictatorship that we all face: obey orders to lose your job.

Don't get me wrong, there are horrible excuses for human beings among them, just as there are in the general population. Most, however, have very low levels of education and very little independent will.

Those who are giving the orders are primarily to blame. The same is true for our soldiers.

[-] 0 points by argheebe (11) 11 years ago

Vnayar, you are correct ...we do, unfortunately, share the same 'corporate dictatorship.' Obey your orders or lose your job. BUT, we have choices. When the chips are down and the streets are filled with protest and (potential) revolution...the servants will serve those who feed them. You can count on it. One cop out of five who decides that it is okay to use pepper spray distinguishes him/herself as one of those horrible excuses for human beings that you mentioned. But, it matters not that the others are nice guys and gals who are just doing their job. The issue is CLASS struggle. It is 99% against the 1%. The 1% do have considerable strong arm, however, and the cops (who may be just doing their jobs) will step up to the plate and perform or else. Feeding their families and trying to live in the middle class - comfortably - means doing their jobs for the 1%. Think about Wall st. buying police services to empty the Park (and other things). These cops will continue to do their jobs until it affects them personally, socially, financially, and maybe politically ..but doubtful about the political part. They carry a badge, they carry a gun, they carry a taser, they carry pepper spray...what kind of power is that? In their view, seeing the forest requires elimination of the trees.

[-] 1 points by Raulduke (14) 11 years ago

I think a lot of you guys get a little lost in the occupy world. Out here there is a lot of other stuff going on. When the police clear a park it has nothing to do with the 99% the 1% or whatever your agenda. Look at it objectively-an angry mob has seized part of a city,park, university etc etc. The police get tasked to remove this angry mob. They're not acting on behalf of some Dr Evil. They're acting on behalf of our society. Should they allow the mob to continue to takeover public areas? Occupy sites are becoming breeding grounds for criminal activity and violence. We have a system that is not completely broken. Use it. Put your people in govt. Its like the protesters love to antagonize authority. Do you think they will just go away?

[-] 2 points by argheebe (11) 11 years ago

When the police clear a park it has nothing to do with the 99% the 1% or whatever your agenda...Really? Let's look at this from a more subjective point of view, my friend. (from Chris Hedges' article in Truthdig.com) Crane Brinton in his book “Anatomy of a Revolution” laid out the common route to revolution. The preconditions for successful revolution, Brinton argued, are discontent that affects nearly all social classes, widespread feelings of entrapment and despair, unfulfilled expectations, a unified solidarity in opposition to a tiny power elite, a refusal by scholars and thinkers to continue to defend the actions of the ruling class, an inability of government to respond to the basic needs of citizens, a steady loss of will within the power elite itself and defections from the inner circle, a crippling isolation that leaves the power elite without any allies or outside support and, finally, a financial crisis. Our corporate elite, as far as Brinton was concerned, has amply fulfilled these preconditions. But it is Brinton’s next observation that is most worth remembering. Revolutions always begin, he wrote, by making impossible demands that if the government met would mean the end of the old configurations of power. The second stage, the one we have entered now, is the unsuccessful attempt by the power elite to quell the unrest and discontent through physical acts of repression..... Loud and clear, Raulduke ....unsuccessful attempt by the power elite to quell the unrest.
So why the unrest? If you were the Ruler, would you be worried that the Ruled are getting a little out of hand?
Why are they getting out of hand? Because the system is broken. Putting people in government is like writing your congressperson. Do you really think that the Rulers (aka Corporate Amerika) take orders from the government? I beg to differ....they give orders to the government.

[-] 2 points by sgalindez (0) 11 years ago

UC Davis Police Violence Adds Fuel to Fire http://www.readersupportednews.org/opinion2/275-42/8485-uc-davis-police-violence-adds-fuel-to-fire In response to the crackdown on Occupy Wall Street and the pepper-spraying of an 89-year-old woman in Seattle I wrote, "Fanning the Flames of the Revolution." Quite simply, I argued that each violent crackdown by the police against non-violent protesters does little more than "fan the flames" of Occupy protests and, in many cases, adds fuel to the fire of the Occupy movement.

[-] 1 points by davidg (1) 10 years ago

This is really a horrible thing to happen and such a case where if you were involved you might want to talk to a California attorney such as Earl Carter:


[-] 1 points by Spade2 (478) 11 years ago

Well my friends in the police apartment say that that shit is protocol just the Rodney King beating.

[-] 1 points by the99areLazy (14) from Benton, PA 11 years ago

The question is whom do they serve.

Well the answer is the people. Do realize that ows represents a small number of people. You are people, not the people.

[-] 1 points by nachosrulz (63) from Eureka, CA 11 years ago

isent there more protesters than there are police?

[-] 1 points by Rascus (30) 11 years ago

freedom33.....some good points you make thru your posts .....and I do like the fact that you know and see the truth about whats going on in the world....not just in our country....this is most definitely a global issue and must be stopped ......if that is even remotely possible

[-] 1 points by Rascus (30) 11 years ago

Dont believe that our Government and freeoms wil be returned without bloodshed.....this is sad but true....the 1% have no intentions of giving back what they have stolen from the American people over the years without a very serious fight! As spoken by one of our founding fathers many years ago....“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants”, so there you will find the answer and that ia very sad......but surely serious.

[-] 1 points by Mak (1) from Харьков, Харьковская область 11 years ago

fuck the police, fuck the goverment, fuck the authority!


[-] 1 points by JeffersonNotMao (3) 11 years ago

The police should have used clubs these people were told to leave for hrs and they would not !

They are lucky they did not get a beat down as that is what would have happened to them during the golry days of the 40's 50's and 60's the Union people always talk about !

[-] 1 points by Lotusroot (1) 11 years ago

What are they defending? They are defending those who wish to own the world! They want to make us pay for all the unalienable rights granted us under the constitution. I pray for a revolution. It is the only w ay to take back what rightfully belongs to us: A government of the people by the peopled for the people. Not a government for the corporations by the corporations for the corporations! Or any other entity belonging to any organization other than the people!!! We have been taken over people. And , yes t he revolution wont be televised cause there is a more relevant, technology/medium called the internet!!!!!!!!! I blog at . a

of the corporations by corporations for the corporations or big pharma or any other entity other than the people!

[-] 1 points by tomcat68 (298) 11 years ago

I like the last picture. The one of the woman Screaming Incoherent ideologies and verbally assaulting the peace officer.

She gets what I'd have done. a Big Wad of juice Right in that Gaping Frothing Screaming kool-Aid hole.




[-] 1 points by wintersoldier (4) 11 years ago

I understand their addresses have been posted somewhere by Anonymous. Like to hear if that does anything.

[-] 1 points by ompb (6) 11 years ago

I don't know if pepperspraying is the recommended procedure for removing people who are blocking a sidewalk that the public has a right to use, but what was the guy supposed to do? I guess in retrospect, he should have tased the first kid, and then gone down the line, one-by-one, removing/tasing kids until the problem was gone.

[-] 1 points by Wooly (3) 11 years ago

This is hilarious! "Shame on You!"...LOL....I betcha if those guys would have moved...like the Police had asked...they would not have been sprayed. Just a guess....

"THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING!".........so what?...

[-] 1 points by i8jomomma (80) 11 years ago

why didn't someone take that pepper spray away from him and shove it up his ass?

[-] 1 points by russell111 (6) from Hebron, MD 11 years ago

I continue to read how we need to be voting out these imposters . Its simple threaten to VOTE NOBODY. Yes right in vote nobody. Get real change ,, start new. Quit supporting Obama or any of them for that matter. Where is Obama in all this ? When police Had a problem with a professor they thought was breaking into his own house Obama was there, they sat down for a beer together. Hes now playing both sides against the middle . He gives the banks money then while knowing about their bonuses then says to the American people ... look at what the corporations are doing wrong and sits back and enjoys the trouble he has created . He openly states Micheal Vick deserves another chance ,, what about other Americans with records that stop them from obtaining work.. He doesn't give a shit about them . Any one ever wonder how much stock he owns in the banks and corporations he bails out ?. Go to the white house and get a demand a free beer with him and to police. Then VOTE NOBODY IN 2012 in every election .

[-] 1 points by mdez13 (10) 11 years ago

So, keeping the 2nd amendment in mind, during a peaceful unarmed protest, if you happen to have pepper spray in your bag and happened to be attacked without provocation; Do you have the right to spray the officer to defend your well-being?

[-] 1 points by randart (498) 11 years ago

What a sad statement of this country. I thought we had the right to peaceful assembly.

Imagine what would have happened to Ben Franklin if these police were around back in those days.

[-] 1 points by grammar (1) 11 years ago

I support the message, so I feel obligated to point out that the title should read "Who do you serve?" Who is a subject, and whom is an object that can be used in sentences like "For whom do do you work?"

[-] 1 points by occupymission (8) from New York, NY 11 years ago


[-] 1 points by occupymission (8) from New York, NY 11 years ago

Easy These kids were asked to move, if one of them got up with a knife, the situation would be different? Know the cops side also, these kids are all tucked in. They should have moved, period. So look at all angles, Notice how cops moved in after they were sprayed. Its an procedure the kids didnt know.

[-] 1 points by Bssgrl (9) 11 years ago

we should do a Silent March on d17, let our silence and our signs speak, then they have no Excuse to say they felt threatened. It will speak louder than we can chant having a massive crowd walking in silence

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 11 years ago

Lt. John Pike is the name of that dude with the spray can. Any search engine on cops?

[-] 1 points by 2nowhere (1) 11 years ago

somebody needs to organize protests by the homes of these congressmen who side with the wealthy 1% thats where all this fire has started

[-] 1 points by TheLaughingMan (1) 11 years ago

This really pains me, an action that ignites violence. But as a civilized being, I repress my anger to express real ideas and solutions that in the future will also benefit this cops... sad.

[-] 1 points by maggiacomo (4) 11 years ago

you guys are a bunch of babys and deserved to be pepper sprayed

[-] 1 points by ALL4IT69 (6) 11 years ago

beginning of "martial law" you just watch and see

[-] 1 points by washboard (13) 11 years ago

How do you deal with one drunk that just won't leave? Okay, how do you deal with a hundred? These people aren't drunk, they're just having a temper tantrum. I'm pretty damn sure they knew it was coming.

[-] 1 points by Andrias (3) 11 years ago

for the future: https://www.facebook.com/events/190084344410536/

word to spread, spread the word

[-] 1 points by Occupytheimf (134) 11 years ago

As brutality is clearly already standard procedure by kronykops, you mustnt allow it continuing without accountability but continuing impunity. Photo badge #s identify the culprits and introduce them 2 the world of unemployment.

[-] 1 points by BillMcBiliard (6) from Burlington, VT 11 years ago

finally the police are making the correct response.

[-] 1 points by pipwood21 (1) 11 years ago

My Dear Sisters and Brothers, I shed tears at the abuses leveled at our young students and salute them for their bravery, conviction and honesty. I am appalled by the actions perpetrated against them. They are inexcusable. Some of you mentioned that it might be a good idea to hold up, or wear the US flag as a possible symbol to deter the Police from their brutality. Well, as much as I honour your desire to hold up your flag, and as much as I would honour it out of respect for you, I fear it is a trifle too late. The 1% doesn't give a jot about your flag, or mine, or anyone elses for that matter. And why should they? Their interests go beyond mere nationalistic boundaries. They are controlling globally. We know it. We have woken up and finally and see it. However, what was perhaps not reckoned with by the 1% , is that this movement, of itself, has also become Global. And it is this fact, the joining of the down-trodden throughout the world, from so many Nations, so many flags, that gives me a sense of hope. We need to acknowledge ourselves as that Community, and perhaps we need a new flag. One that represents us as Global, for that is what we are in the process of becoming. Nationalism, as it was, is no longer viable. We see it all around us. There is no protection based on National boundaries. It is an illusion. The 1% are fully aware of this and are probably laughing into their champagne at our naivete. These police abuses are everywhere. The same strategies and the same attacks. London is no different. And really, what use is the Union Jack today or any other flag for that matter? I am ashamed of it. I honour the ordinary Person, no matter where they are from. I trust in the integrity of this movement with all that I breath. But our countries as such, no longer exist, and it is time we realized that. I celebrate the Global Community. For me, it is the only way to proceed.

[-] 1 points by ronaldpope (5) 11 years ago

Reminds me of 1968 Chicago tactics. And as for Newt Gingrich telling us to find a job, but take a bath....how about his wife dying of cancer, and he's out hiding the salami with another broad! He's a blow hard, and J-O

[-] 1 points by tntoolman (1) 11 years ago

Administrative leave? they should be taking him to the hospital to have the can of OC removed from his rectum! There is absolutely no excuse for this idiots behavior! He needs to be fired and charges should be brought for negligence. As a nurse, if I give the wrong dosage of a medication or improperly do a dressing change, I'm liable for my actions and can be sued for negligence, these idiots should be held to the same standards but there not. I think I'm going to start a new revolution, one that places accountability for the actions of law enforcement. You can bet that any one of these idiots wouldn't hesitate to sue a nurse for negligence, we should have the same opportunity! I'm sick of the double standard! Maybe if the tables were turned and we were teflon when one of them or their family members were hurt by the negligent actions of a nurse, then they would understand how pathetic this is! This guy won't suffer any lasting career issues from this and that's wrong!

[-] 1 points by farmerjohn (22) 11 years ago

Welcome to the "none constitutional zone"

[-] 1 points by devilliers123 (18) 11 years ago

that fat one spraying the pepper must have stolen a lot of donuts

[-] 1 points by msgypsysolo (1) 11 years ago

good for you who are marching 300 miles. how many are there marching? where are you all at now?

[-] 1 points by webe1954 (1) 11 years ago

The worst part is the cop's attitude. He is calmly and quietly walking up and down the line spraying the students as if he is spraying for roaches.

[-] 1 points by angelfire (1) 11 years ago

The first comment at the YouTube site for this video is a call from somebody calling himself earth(something) for you "americans" with guns to use them on the "Nazi" police.

Does Occupy Wall Street support such a thing?

[-] 1 points by bruford (2) 11 years ago

I see everyone in designer clothing with their I-phones in hand. No commitment. Majority there to just hang out. I can't hitch my wagon to this one. All you posers should go out and feed the hungry.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

There would be no "hungry" if things weren't the way they are. Do you get THAT?

[-] 1 points by Mackdaddy (2) 11 years ago

You know whats not smart, protesting for something you have no clue about, because if you had any common knowledge about a democracy you would not be out there protesting, You guys deserve what ever treatment you get, when you are asked to move and refuse. They told you to move so move. If you were in a socialist county you would have been Shot. If you study protest go back to the civil rights movement with Dr. King, they just marched, and when they were told to leave a place, besides the sit-ins they did. You guys have it all wrong. Study successful protest and then your movement may get some laws changed. Right now you are just getting a lot of people hurt, and are costing this country several million dollars we don't have telling you all to move, and go else where. Wake up and organize and protest properly you all are an embarrassment to this nation.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 11 years ago

"If you were in a socialist county you would have been Shot."

Like, say, Norway.... you would be shot there if you had not moved... because Norway is heavily socialistic? Your view of socialism is complete bullshit.

[-] 1 points by va1 (3) 11 years ago

the demeanor of the cop in the top pic is sickening. it looks as if he's on a jaunty stroll while watering the roses.


[-] 1 points by inlikeflint (42) 11 years ago

Don't get angry. Get active... Donors & trustees, really dislike attention put on them. Maybe the cops that were involved need some written complaints in their records... Maybe the prospects for next semester should consider attending a safer campus... There are all sorts of great things that can happen from this. The haphazard gratuitous spaying of a student is a great example of why police officers should not carry weapons... Maybe there should be a law against police officers being able to have weapons... (Isn't it to protect and serve?)

[-] 1 points by minxywillow35 (1) 11 years ago

According to the 1st Amendment of the United States Constitution, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Seems to me that there is an awful lot of repressing going on, which is in direct opposition of the first amendment. Now, I'm no politician, but isn't there something the people can do about this? Not Congress or any other political body, but the people? My most favorite quote is by Abraham Lincoln, and I think it carries weight here: “This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their Constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it.” After seeing the above footage, I think it is time for the people to bind together, and exercise your rights!

[-] 1 points by Jamierson2k (1) 11 years ago

Check out #OfficersForOccupy - Once their boss is bankrupt, eventually they will join us

[-] 1 points by HelpingOthers (10) from Wall, NJ 11 years ago

http://bicyclebarricade.wordpress.com/2011/11/19/open-letter-to-chancellor-linda-p-b-katehi/ the students of UC Davis must express solidarity with this letter, and express solidarity with sensible governance by doing so

[-] 1 points by undernamenothing (14) from Napoli, Campania 11 years ago

and with this video I express my solidarity and the joy they have experienced since they were born the 'Occupy Wall Street' http://www.lalavatrice.it/media/v/occupy-wall-street-in-the-night

[-] 1 points by f34r (7) 11 years ago

How long until peaceful protestors have had enough.. and the same objective with new action is pursued?


[-] 1 points by thezencarpenter (131) 11 years ago

Looks like Tienanmen's Square china to me! Disgusting!

[-] 1 points by Monkeyboy69 (150) 11 years ago

These pictures are awesome!!!!

[-] 1 points by gbuck0 (1) 11 years ago

I couldn't believe I was seeing this again. I hadn't seen police brutality like this since the 1960's. I'm a 70 year old grandfather. This made me cry.

[-] 1 points by Riceball (9) 11 years ago

Hows that peacefull thing workin for ya

[-] 1 points by rick908 (1) 11 years ago

California Penal Code Section 12403.7 (a) (8) (g) Any person who uses tear gas or tear gas weapons except in self-defense is guilty of a public offense and is punishable byimprisonment in a state prison for 16 months, or two or three years or in a county jail not to exceed one year or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment, except that, if the use is against a peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, engaged in the performance of his or her official duties and the person committing the offense knows or reasonably should know that the victim is a peace officer, the offense is punishable by imprisonment in a state prison for 16 months or two or three years or by a fine of one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment.

[-] 1 points by polo (63) 11 years ago

"criminalized drug users, sex workers" really? you think they are no different from me? i beg to differ, yes we are all human but i am nothing like them, they are desperate, uncreative, and criminal. how is supporting them helping you?

[-] 1 points by booklover (1) 11 years ago

When will justice be served and police who assault harmless citizens start being arrested? The whole world is watching and, except for a few sadistic psychopaths, everyone is horrified and disgusted. ENOUGH!!! ARREST Lt. John Pike (UCDAVIS) and LT Bologna(NYPD) and lock them up in jail instead of a loss of a few vacation days: they and others like them have committed assault and battery on innocent and harmless victims. I hope lawyers are paying attention. Sue the crap out of NYPD, Oakland Police Dept, and UCDavis for encouraging police brutality.

[-] 1 points by WorldCitizen99 (20) 11 years ago

Aikido, Satyagraha and Nonviolence by Rick Higgs Similarly, it is in the best interests of both the general public and police departments for police to receive Aikido training, as many departments in Japan, Germany and parts of the U.S., including Hawaii, have done (Aiki Extensions). It can only improve interactions between police and the public for police officers to learn more about centeredness and self-control, and to be provided with effective modes of conflict resolution and self-defense that are non-lethal.
Mahatma Gandhi and later Dr. Martin Luther King became convinced over time that the only effective methods to implement social change and to "fight the power" had to be nonviolent. They recognized the futility of opposing an overwhelming, well entrenched force with force, not only because of the likelihood of the resistance being crushed by superior numbers, but because even in the unlikely event of victory through revolutionary violence the cyclical patterns of violence and retribution remain in place. Both of these great leaders for peace and justice well understood the need to offer to the world effective methods of nonviolent resistance against social injustice that might break that endless cycle . Their solutions, based in Gandhi's Satyagraha, involved methods of civil disobedience that were based on nonresistance (not meeting force with force with force), dealing with the problem system (racism, injustice) rather than humans caught up in that system, finding solutions that all parties involved can live with, not attempting to crush or humiliate an opponent, and operating from a philosophically calm and centered place. All of these precepts are embodied in Morihei Ueyshiba's Aikido, the only martial art/self defense practice that has an equal ethical concern with protecting both parties involved in conflict. Like Gandhi and Dr. King, Ueyshiba Sensei understood that victory had to be based on the power of love and a sincere desire for justice and the restoration of harmony. His Aikido was meant to be a gift to the world. Since the late 1960's Aikido has in fact spread and become a world-wide practice, the world's fastest growing martial art. There are, indeed, more Aikido dojos in both the United States and France than there are in Japan. This bodes well both for the future of Aikido and of humanity at large, as more and more people recognize the need for a practice that integrates body, mind and spirit and offers models for peaceful resolution of conflict. This is why Ueyshiba Sensei's unlikely martial art deserves to thrive in the new century. He understood that the roots of all contention are internal, and that peace starts with self control.

[-] 1 points by dmon (1) 11 years ago

Here is a link to the personal information of the sadistic cop who pepper sprayed people on the UC Davis Campus. There are also links to file a formal complaint with the Police Department and with the Chancellor of the University.


[-] 1 points by occunita (1) 11 years ago

In response to recent events around the country such as UC Davis, Oakland, and OWS; Occupy Norfolk has created a statement and petition calling on President to speak up and condemn the use of violence against police protesters in the United States.

We want to get this petition on his desk as quickly as possible, in order to do so we need to gather 25,000 signatures. This can happen today. Let's make it happen.



[-] 1 points by bgordon (1) 11 years ago

We need to be making it clear what aspects need to be changed. We must enforce financial regulations and transparency. If these banks are handling our money and receiving government bailout (our tax money) then we have the right to complete transparency. They have proved on several occasions that they unable to be morally and financially responsible. People should begin to put their money in foreign banks such as HSBC (what i use). If these companies see that domestic clients are using a foreign bank (specifically a Honk Kong bank) they will be forced to make changes. Support the banks that do honest business

[-] 1 points by trailertrash (13) 11 years ago

When I look at the picture of that campus cop casually spraying kids all I can think of is: "you pathetic prick". I'd like to meet you in the ring for a ten round fair fight you piece of shit. Of course you'd decline a fair fight. Without your SS suit and toys you'd be impotent.

You make me sick.



[-] 1 points by gangstawhut (1) 11 years ago

I believe that the police are repeatedly doing things like this in order to incite a riot which would allow the mainstream media to finally jump all over this, in order to discredit the movement. Does anyone know if it would be possible to somehow perform a citizen's arrest on an officer that is inciting a riot? I believe this movement needs to have the police on its side, they are not the enemy, they are just being used as pawns in the game.

[-] 1 points by sharonmcr (1) 11 years ago

How can these men and women go home at night and sit at the dinner table looking their children in the eyes?

[-] 1 points by Capitalist2222222 (12) 11 years ago

As they said in the ad for Toyota... "You asked for it......"

[-] 1 points by Bighead1883 (285) 11 years ago

Hello from Australia.We are the 99% and we will win.We will take our power to the voting booth.We will break up the two party political model for a true Democratic model.The sure way is to elect in new Politicians of an Independent type that help tone down bad Government.It`s working well here in Australia and the mood of the people is for even more accountability.Orwell was a seer and the "Running Man Corporation" is using our police forces to oppress us violently.Governments run Countries NOT BANKS.

[-] 1 points by HitGirl (2263) 11 years ago

That cheeseburger-swilling fascist spraying protesters...that needs to stop! Get some civil rights lawyers involved.

[-] 1 points by jfrax (2) 11 years ago

Lt John Pike contact info:

Lieutenant John Pike Records Unit Manager Phone: 530-752-3989 Cell: 530-979-0184 japikeiii@ucdavis.edu Address: 4005 Cowell Blvd, Apt 616. Davis, CA 95618-6017 Skype: japike3

[-] 1 points by teilhard (2) 11 years ago

We NEED an organized apparatus for immediately seeking legal redress by holding individual officers accountable, or superiors when appropriate.

We should work for a moratorium on pepper spray.

[-] 1 points by NewAmericanEthic (4) 11 years ago

Is it just me or has our local police department changed? These corporate-sponsored storm troopers have more armor than our guys in Iraq and Afghanistan. But why? There is no negotiating; it is you do as I say, or else. But then, I guess there is no negotiating with absolute power anyway. I think it is fair to ask who do they serve?

[-] 1 points by NewAmericanEthic (4) 11 years ago

Woke up, got outta bed, got a knight-stick upside my head... When a nation has to debate about whether torture is OK, it is already desensitized to such acts as we witness here. This officer, in fact, will be seen as a hero by many, just like the guys at the remote controls of the thousands of Drones killing innocent people around the globe in your name and mine. OUTRAGE is the only acceptable human response if civilization is desirable or possible.

[-] 1 points by bluemoon1982 (1) 11 years ago

The people in this country who are in authoritative positions must be held responsible for their conscious choices to exchange actions that are in accordance with their purpose for actions that instead are in accordance with blatant abuse of power and disregard for the greater good.


[-] 1 points by therichiswinning (10) 11 years ago

Change one thing, change the game... No more outside corporate money in politics... If OWS succeeds in doing this one thing... Everything will change for the better over time. Imagine giving Republican and Democratic candidates the exact same fixed amount of money to compete any way they want for our votes...

[-] 1 points by teachkat (23) 11 years ago

Oh come on that picture is doctored anyone can see that.get your heads out of your butts.

[-] 1 points by larocks (414) from Lexington, KY 11 years ago

they get away with this cause our government no longer cares about us. obama has yet to say anything good or bad about this movement. he got elected on a platform of change but the only change i have seen is the change from my paycheck not buying what it used to. they give our tax dollars to these big corporations while americans on the streets are treated like this. i feal ashamed to be an american to live in a country that preaches free speech and see this happen. i hope the rest of the world doesnt see this. it will def have a lasting impact on how they see our NEW WORLD ORDER

[-] 1 points by Tommie (4) 11 years ago

Please read "The Politics of Fear", How Republicans Use Money, Race and the Media to Win, 2006 by Manuel G. Gonzales and Richard Delgado. This book is not just another conspiricry theory book. This book is well researched. Read and You Will See!

[-] 1 points by Faithntruth (997) 11 years ago

The chancellor refuses to resign, calling for an investigation. The head of the force involved claims the students encircled and endangered the police. Armed forces were endangered by unarmed students who mainly stayed feet away from the officers, and off the sidewalk without raising more than their voices in response to a targeted show of force against a seated and non-threatening line of students... Riiiggghhhtt....

He also claims that it is more harmful to lift a person and this justifies the use of pepper spray...I wonder how long before it causes a fatal asthma attack?

Curling up in a ball, he states, justifies the use of physical violence. I guess this is because curling up in a ball is so often followed by the person using the power of the mind to launch themselves at police like cannon balls, right? It is so clearly a threat.

I have said before that I think those confronted by police should chant the pertinent phrase from the 1st Amendment, then as police take action, change the chant to "shame". Additionally, I think that while chanting "shame" the protestors should turn their backs. This is useful in three ways: first, it is less threatening; second, it forces the authorities to attack people's backs which is culturally recognized as unfair and wrong; finally, it is a powerful form of social judgement and outcasting.

In the video you can see on their faces that the chant does reach the police as it touches their humanity. They are people, and they are affected by shame (excluding any who lack it, of course).

[-] 1 points by timotato (3) 11 years ago

The police are in conflict between protecting us and protecting "the state". What we're seeing are their allegiances coming to the forefront already. John Pike has certainly come out on the side of the state while others seem to be siding with the public. This is both good and bad news. The good news is obvious...some police are indeed the protectors of the people and will stand with us when we need them the most. The bad news is that this means a hastening of the breakup of the police alliance which would quickly escalate into chaos across the country as criminals with devious intentions not aligned with OWS take advantage of the law enforcement weakness to do devious deeds. This will mean martial law and mayhem which is VERY BAD!

My guess is that the police chiefs have, or are beginning to, decide which team they are on, figure out who in their ranks are not aligned, and take whatever measures they need to either get non-aligned officers to either cross over to their side or leave the force. I pray for the sake of America they decide to protect the people but I fear the opposite will happen. The military is clearly on the side of the state and the police will not want to go up against them. So clearly our task is to make change peacefully so as not to create an armed conflict.

Some months ago the city of Newark, NJ fired 100 police officers due to budget shortfalls. On the local level the police are paid for by us, to protect us. John Pike has clearly forgotten that. I think we need to remind all local police that their fate is in our wallets. An easy wake-up call for them would be to not pay your taxes, starting with sales tax. Next time you are in the store, pay them the pre-tax amount only. The store has no legal right to arrest you. In restaurants be sure to pay your tip separately or else the restaurant and waitor have to pay your tax levy. When the money stops rolling in, the governments will quickly realize who is boss. Only then will our demands of an overhaul of the financial system, congress & senate, and the taxation system will be heard.

It will not be easy. The governments will shut down the busses, the trains, the garbage pickup before reforming themselves. Many selfish people will fight us every step of the way but I think the majority of Americans will put up with the inconvenience if it will result in change.

My 2¢.

[-] 1 points by jfrax (2) 11 years ago

Lt. John Pike sprayed the UC Davis protestors.

and here is his contact info:

Lieutenant John Pike Records Unit Manager Phone: 530-752-3989 Cell: 530-979-0184 japikeiii@ucdavis.edu Address: 4005 Cowell Blvd, Apt 616. Davis, CA 95618-6017 Skype: japike3

[-] 1 points by barb (835) 11 years ago

Police brutality is common these days in many states and it has changed from what it used to be over 30 years ago. Officers used to take that oath to serve and protect seriously back then but now the oath means to serve and protect themselves.

When it takes 2 or more police cars to pull you over for a traffic ticket and they are rude and want to search you and your vehicle due to their attitute that everyone is a criminal when they are far from it in truth, we have a police state.

I have seen officers that would rather beat the hell out of someone in handcuffs because they can get away with it. The list goes on and the masses are too ignorant to see where this is heading.


[-] 1 points by santiagoparis (1) 11 years ago

Hang in there occupiers. This is just part of the process towards making it happen. No one said it was going to be easy, 'cause if it was, it would've happened long ago! Find the strenght to keep on going with this paceful protest! You will be rememberd in the future as the ones who made the change happen! From South America with the best wishes for you guys!

[-] 1 points by osprey3263 (1) 11 years ago

the elite of the illuminati new world order cares nothing about the sovrienty of the United states nor does it give a shit about human rights and basic human needs, they want to destroy at least forty percent of the global population in order to make it easier to control the sheep that are left. wake up finally people of the earth! this is about your basic rights to live and your basic human needs. it;s time to stand up and fight for your selves.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

let them know. And this is my call out. Every last liar, con artist, bully, thug, false police officer, false peace officer, pig, caste warrior, etc... Will eventually be held fully liable and accountable for their criminal actions by the 99 percent. We will seize power. we will take back our government. We will be seeing ANY so called "police officer" who has violently attacked civilian protesters in PRISON for ASSAULT AND BATTERY. We will LIFT any provisions and any security and any immunity that they now have and do this retroactively. This movement is doubling in size every 5 days. Its not going to stop growing and its not going to stop to be co-opted by the dems. Its only a matter of time till the game ends our way. Stop being evil thugs, stop breaking your oaths, and start being peace officers, because otherwise, if you fear losing your mere job now, you best fear becoming an inmate. "It was just my job" is not a defense.

[-] 1 points by supporterinfrance (2) 11 years ago

how can they get away with this? where are the lawyers, civil liberties?

[-] 1 points by Baramos (0) 11 years ago

John A. Pike III 4005 Cowell Blvd, Apartment 616 Davis, CA 95618-6017

Lieutenant John Pike Records Unit Manager Phone: 530-752-3989 Cell: 530-979-0184 [email]japikeiii@ucdavis.edu[/email]

[-] 1 points by andybarone1984 (5) 11 years ago

do you consider spitting on cops violence?

[-] 1 points by divineright (664) 11 years ago

I'd hardly call that violence, but definitely an offense where a citation should be issued (under normal circumstances).

[-] 1 points by ows999 (19) 11 years ago

NYT suggests UC Davis police lied about attack on peaceful OWS students yesterday http://www.americablog.com/2011/11/nyt-suggests-uc-davis-police-lied-about.html A spokesperson for the U.C. Davis police did not respond to a request for comment Saturday. Annette Spicuzza, the U.C. Davis police chief, told The Sacramento Bee that the officer used pepper spray on Friday because the police were surrounded by students. “There was no way out of that circle,” she told the newspaper. “They were cutting the officers off from their support. It’s a very volatile situation.”

The videos, however, show officers freely moving about and show students behaving peacefully. The university reported no instances of violence by any protesters. YouTube doesn't suffer liars well.

[-] 1 points by connectc (5) 11 years ago

Jack -Booted THUG NAZIS with arrogance... got to love them, too! The sad thing is, they, whether they know it or not, are part of the 99% nah, their just bullies!

[-] 1 points by i8jomomma (80) 11 years ago

someone should take the pepper spray away from them .......stick it up their ass and spay them....fuck the police and anyone who stands in the way of the movement.......

[-] 1 points by 666isMONEY (348) 11 years ago

Whom do U serve: god or money?

("U can't serve God & Money: U'll either love the one and hate the other." -- Jesus, Luke 16)

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 11 years ago

Watch what happens after the mace incident.

The stormtroopers had to huddle up to protect the cop with the can.

This is the video the MSM doesn't want anyone to see.



[-] 1 points by julianzs (147) 11 years ago

Captain Raymond Lewis expression, proud & defiant shows everything that is right about the OWS movement.

[-] 1 points by Violetarojo (119) from Washington, DC 11 years ago

Tears are streaming down my face and my heart is screaming! God be with all of you, I hope those of you that were sprayed have a full and speedy recovery from the abuse and brutality you endured for the sake of this revolution, for the sake of the people, for the sake of the good fight! For the sake of doing what is right at any cost! When does it end? When we have moved the hearts of enough people here in America and globally so that it really is a world,

“Nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth” Abraham Lincoln

Keep fighting the good fight! Keep it righteous! Keep it peaceful! Don’t keep it secret! Embrace not disgrace! God bless you one & all!

[-] 1 points by sufinaga (513) 11 years ago

who is he? who is his wife? who are his kids. publish all their photos. Respect Our Community. demand justice for this blatant brutalisation of our youth. Solidarity with the Egyptian people against their fascist police. who ordered or sanctioned this vicious attack? we must prosecute. w kknow we will win because we are confident in the victory of good over evil. the POLICE ARE EVIL.


[-] 1 points by riversideCA (9) 11 years ago

i see a chance for, some off the "criminal element" to get involved. if you have 5,000 cops hanging out around parks, etc. who is guarding the hen house. or is the rest of the city, going without police protection?

[-] 1 points by Eagleone (1) 11 years ago

they should get the names of the officers in the city they are protesting and then search out there familes arcoss the country and stand in front of there homes and video tape live so when they ( Police) are watching you (Occupy wall street ) you are watching there family in a town far away from them it may make them think twice on how they want to behave carma is a B**ch ;)

[-] 1 points by LetThemEatCake (43) from New York, NY 11 years ago

The police are a Gestapo force who serve politicians, not The People. They gladly take contributions (otherwise known as bribes) in millions of dollars from large banks like J.P. Morgan Chase. So when they are given orders to hurt civilians, they do so with a grin on their faces. Cops are just little pee-on drones in uniform who are assholes enjoying a career in violence. Like banks and politicians, they are above the law.

[-] 1 points by ALL4IT69 (6) 11 years ago

I have a feeling its the beginning of 'MARTIAL LAW"

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23740) 11 years ago

These images are absolutely horrific. I can't believe that college kids can't protest peacefully in this country. What is going on? I've heard a few pundits say that the U.S. has descended from democracy into totalitarianism. Could this be true? Is that the direction we are headed?

[-] 1 points by George1234 (82) 11 years ago

After some time, police will realize that they are serving 1%. They will be ashamed of their foolishness. In all (class) struggles, 1% will first use the police; next the army; AND then the movement succeeds.

[-] 1 points by walret (2) from East Orange, NJ 11 years ago

Is this the new face of pornography ? The uniforms need to be jailed on morals charges.

[-] 1 points by libsrnazi (1) 11 years ago

"We ask that the government undertake the obligation above all of providing citizens with adequate opportunity for employment and earning a living. The activities of the individual must not be allowed to clash with the interests of the community, but must take place within its confines and be for the good of all. Therefore, we demand: … an end to the power of the financial interests. We demand profit sharing in big business. We demand a broad extension of care for the aged. We demand … the greatest possible consideration of small business in the purchases of national, state, and municipal governments. In order to make possible to every capable and industrious [citizen] the attainment of higher education and thus the achievement of a post of leadership, the government must provide an all-around enlargement of our entire system of public education … We demand the education at government expense of gifted children of poor parents … The government must undertake the improvement of public health – by protecting mother and child, by prohibiting child labor … by the greatest possible support for all clubs concerned with the physical education of youth. We combat the … materialistic spirit within and without us, and are convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only proceed from within on the foundation of the common good before the individual good." – From the political program of the Nazi Party, adopted in Munich, February 24, 1920

[-] 1 points by polson8568 (1) 11 years ago

Lieutenant John Pike is our hero in the UC Davis clip Records Unit Manager Phone: 530-752-3989 Cell: 530-979-0184 japikeiii@ucdavis.edu Address: 4005 Cowell Blvd, Apt 616. Davis, CA 95618-6017 Skype: japike3 LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/john-pike/18/a76/879 Pike has received 2 Meritorious Service Awards from UC Davis

File formal complaint against UC Davis police officer here: (pdf)

[-] 1 points by Pennycw (2) 11 years ago

To the 99% James 5:1-6 Come now, you rich weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you . Your riches have rotted and your garments are motheaten. Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you and and will eat your fllesh like fire. You have laid up treasure for the last day. Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Host. You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. You have condemned, you have killed the righteous man he does not resist you. The coming of the Lord is soon Praise God!

[-] 1 points by laseptimavieja (1) 11 years ago

the name of the pepper-spraying cop at UC Davis is John Pike and his cellphone # is 530 752 3989

[-] 1 points by marpwv18 (26) 11 years ago

UC Davis - way to go! You held your ground. You had them huddled in a defensive circle and then let them retreat in disgrace - even that fat ass with the pepper spray. He deserved to have that can shoved up his butt. And reinforcements were never sent. Why? Because this was a powder keg ready to blow, and someone in a position of authority wanted no part of it.

[-] 1 points by Joyce (375) 11 years ago

Pure empirical evidence is often void of context for either subject

[-] 1 points by williamcraigart (1) 11 years ago

The police have criticaly injured two veterans, where are their brother veterans? I thought they could stand up for their brothers in war against these brutal police tactics.

[-] 1 points by marpwv18 (26) 11 years ago

These excessive force responses will bring a flood of new supporters into the movement. What are they thinking? And look at all the attack comments all of a sudden? Why are these folks so engaged all of a sudden? Who's paying them?

[-] 1 points by jackburton (1) 11 years ago

These jack booted thug pictures make me sick. Isn't the right to peaceful protest one of the rights that veterans fought so hard to protect ?? I bet Lieutenant John Pike's parents are sooo proud of him. I wonder if he tortured puppies as a child.

[-] 1 points by MockingjayFly (14) from Owaneco, IL 11 years ago

UNBELIEVABLE!!!! What they did to those students.......I am ashamed to be an American right now. It seems the police have forgotten exactly who it is they are supposed to be protecting. I mean don't they have a murder or rape that they could be investigating right now??? Seriously, I am disgusted by their use of pepper spray......however, the funniest part of the video is when the protesters have those awful police officers hemmed in and then show them grace by parting and allowing them to leave with their tail between their legs like the cowards they really are!!!


[-] 1 points by Justice4all (133) 11 years ago

There should be a decree that Captain Raymond Lewis be named NYC Chief of Police immediately!! He is a true servant of and for the people! His brave actions show that he is truly a leader of men! These are the people who should be at the very top of our chain(s) of public service. To set the example that very few of them do. To serve the people not the corporations! Captain Raymond Lewis for chief of police!! Shout it from the rooftops!!!

[-] 1 points by Raulduke (14) 11 years ago

Maybe he's just bored being retired and wanted to throw the old uniform on.

[-] 1 points by Justice4all (133) 11 years ago

Or maybe he just wated to remind those who wear the uniform now as to what it really means to be a real cop--not a bunch of posers out just to pound on other humans beings because they didnt receive enough attention as children.

[-] 1 points by dianalee111 (1) from Corpus Christi, TX 11 years ago

I just cried seeing those kids sprayed like that. As a nurse I just wanted to wipe their faces. They are standing up for all of us. Even the 1 percent needs us whether they know it or not. The OWS are heros! Thank you for fighting for us. I look into my little girls eyes and I pray for her future and have hope now.

[-] 1 points by IbelieveintheConstitution (1) 11 years ago

Dear Police at UC Davis event: Thank you for giving me the motivation to sign up to take the California Bar Exam. The cops in Oakland gave me the idea, and you just solidified it for me. I look forward to taking pro bono cases to remind you about our primary, golden, FIRST Amendment in the Constitution. Sincerely,

Your Future Opposing Counsel

[-] 1 points by tomcat68 (298) 11 years ago


[-] 1 points by oldguy (17) from Oakley, MI 11 years ago

The 1 percent are really getting scared now. They have called out their storm troopers to assault the peaceful protestors. For shame, for shame. The world is watching and will not look upon this in a kind way. Tiananmen square anyone ?

[-] 1 points by pansy74 (1) 11 years ago

Would civil rights protesters have been issued permits in Jackson Mississippi during the civil rights movement. Movements do not start with permits when something is truly awry with a system. We are witnessing something very much akin to the movements of the 60s but instead of water hoses they're using tear gas and the movement is not isolated but has erupted in major cities the world wide. I am glad to see that people have finally push back as it will probably take a movement like this one to garner true change. I am just sad that it has come to this and that our Bill of Rights that we hold so near and dear is being ignored.

Sitting down and chanting looks like peaceful assembly to me even if they choose not to leave when the police tell them to. Remember, those who sat at lunch counters were told to leave, too.

[-] 0 points by whisper (212) 11 years ago

I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying but I figure I should point something out. The supreme court has, over the last..... Since it has existed, ignored the fact that government power must be subordinated to individual rights if we are to achieve a free society. The most viciously attacked freedom is, of course, the freedom of speech and of the press. The Supreme Court's favorite method of dealing with freedom of speech (or any other right) is to use the line 'individual rights may be abridged or outright ignored when significant state interests are at stake.' They have used such rationale to create the category of unprotected speech, or 'obscenity' which is undefined. To deal with defining it they suggest that the 'community' should be imbued with the power to regulate what individuals may see, hear, write, read, etc. This really means, as it always does when the word 'community' or 'public' is involved, that government gets to decide what an individual may see, hear, write, or read. A 'community' or 'public', as such, has no legal right to determine what an individual may read, see, hear, write, etc. Only government, as such, can do this. The solution to this problem is to include an explicit 'mission statement' in the constitution that government exists solely to protect individual rights and an explicit entry in the bill of rights protecting the right to life, since all other rights are derived from this right and the specific kind of life humans live.

[-] 1 points by CaryJays (1) from Gardena, CA 11 years ago

Sign this petition and call on obama to stop the use of chemicals on americans peacefully protesting


Takes 1 minute and can hopefully make a difference wherever you are!

[-] 1 points by zootsuit (34) 11 years ago

that spic cop spraying the kids thought he was at home spraying the house for cockroaches.

[-] 1 points by Pennycw (2) 11 years ago

This message is for the 1% Just say to no to Prison for Profit: they send our children from school to prison and God's word says this Jeremiah 5:26 For wicked men are found among my people; they lurk like fowlers lying in wait. They set a trap; they catch men like a Basket Full of Birds, Their Houses are full of treachery; therefore they have become great and rich, they have grown fat and sleek. They know no bounds in deeds of wickedness; they judge not with justice the cause of the fatherless, to make it prosper and They do not defend the rights of the need. Shall I not punish them for these things says the Lord, and shall I not avenge myself on a nation such as this: An appalling and horrible thing has happened in the land: God Bless the 99% and call upon God for the battle is his and watch the miracle He will perform. Love you 99%

[-] 1 points by ows999 (19) 11 years ago

UC Davis launches probe after pepper spray video


SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Video surfaced online Saturday showing an officer at a California university calmly pepper-spraying a line of several sitting protesters, who flinch and cover their faces but remain passive with their arms interlocked as onlookers shriek and scream out for the officer to stop.

The chancellor of the University of California, Davis described the video images as "chilling" and said she was forming a task force to investigate even as a faculty group called for her resignation because of the incident Friday.

"The use of the pepper spray as shown on the video is chilling to us all and raises many questions about how best to handle situations like this," Chancellor Linda Katehi said in a message posted on the school's web site on Saturday.

[-] 1 points by QiAlex (1) 11 years ago

If you find the UC Davis action deplorable and inhumane may I suggest that you call and leave a formal complaint at the following number. (No vulgarity, keep it professional and direct)

Annette M. Spicuzza UC Davis Police Chief (530) 752-3113

[-] 1 points by karenpoore (902) 11 years ago

Stop promoting hate for the police to the people. If laws were obeyed none of this would have happened. If anyone feels they have been assaulted while not breaking the law they need to file criminal charges.

[-] 2 points by gjjemhunter (16) 11 years ago

laws created by legislators, friends with University presidents, Corporate CEOs, Bank Presidents....some laws are designed to protect only the rich. Like the British taxes, some laws should be disobeyed because they are hostile and destructive to the people. Police don't get paid to think. Like dogs, they do what they're told to get paid. They have no conscience. Police aren't hired for their morality.

[-] 1 points by feet2toe (1) 11 years ago


what we need to do is to proclaim that the mayoral offices and whoever else (mega money sponsors?) of the police forces be declared of sound mind to stand trial (no plea of insanity here, please) pleading guilty to bulling, elder abuse, peeping toms (women who were held in precincts from #ows rallies) abuse and endangerment of minors (under 21yrs of age and peppered sprayed) intimidating, harassing - touching, hurting, punishing citizens for exercising their rights by unethical and unlawful rules of conduct. Then castrate them in a open court declaring them unfit to run for any kind of political office that represents the people in all issues. How do you take a Bully down? Embarrass them enough that they can't hold their heads up..In this case make class action suits to sue the individuals for not acting within the accordance of the rules and conducts for each governing police force (In other words, they acted on their own). Like Capt Lewis said, " our job is to serve and protect, the mayor is telling Capt Kelly to do this. (sue Kelly too for compromising his position) So keep it up #ows, believe me its working. I came across this poem, (the poet's a new friend of mind that I meant at a recent gala for minorities). Here' s a poem that was published back in 1998 -Pre-#OWS and Pre-9/11 WTC. Published in the Library of Congress in a book called "The Peace We Knew" collection by the National Library of Poetry Title: Asphalt Worries of the Big Apple

Asphalt wars of neighboring groups scurried, worried the grounds, Hustle, bustle rebel-in-tongues against the hierarchy, capitalistic Business Suits in The Big Apple.

Segregation then integration, blockades, detour crossways: servant--production. Terrorism inside job, weak link foundation, Krazy Glued Big Apple: construction--production. Society childhood devolution, one nation under guard, deprivation: television--production. Racism terminology/slippage-regression, suppression, health: sweat shops--production. Business Suits masters of the realm/monetary realism/ Big Brother segregation, terrorism, society, racism.

Who continue to corrupt a nonverbal, non receptive system that deals within a realm of rhetoric and semantics delaying its production of bountiful fruits; at the same time threatening its asphalt worries with insubordination resulting in hostile and unsubstantiated litigation.

Business Suits: "Divide and Conquer, that is what! Let them cry amongst themselves of unfairness and push one another back for their livelihoods! But Hush, we will not say we started this asphalt worrier's war."

[-] 1 points by mee (6) 11 years ago

the officer is who pepper sprayed is Lt. John Pike. here is his cell number tell him how you feel 530-979-0184. He works for UC Davis in California's Central Valley near Sacramento. Ask him who he serves.

However, he is also part of the 99 percent and following orders from the chancellor, Linda P.B. Katehi.(530) 752-2065

Lt. Pike is simply one of many sheep who cannot think for himself. This can be the only answer for spraying chemicals on people like they are weeds in his lawn. If he was not a sheep he would have disobeyed the orders to pepper spray these students

[-] 1 points by arealpolitik (154) 11 years ago

I agree with Socrates. Carry the American flag, carry it everywhere. It not only represents the people of this country, it would also be a symbol that even the police would have a hard time desecrating.

These are true patriots that truly represent America.

I would like to see the police try to pepper-spray that... Issue flags to everyone

[-] 1 points by Crimzon (91) from Arizona City, AZ 11 years ago

What happened to our rights? Why are the police silencing our freedom of speech and assembly? When was our freedom sold out from underneath us?

I support the 99% i believe its far past the time to stand up for the rights that have been taken from us by "old money"

That we must fight for our freedoms and show corporate america we are not willing to be sold as a commodity.

This is not what our founding fathers envisioned when they came to these lands and this is not the democracy they spoke of!

Our government is broken, Our politicians are paid for, Our leaders no longer lead!

Its time we make America remember what the words "for the people and by the people" truly mean!

[-] 1 points by Edwin (47) from Anseong-si, Gyeonggi-do 11 years ago

This is what democracy looks like

Already sent my letters to UC Davis president. Nasty ones!!!

I also posted the pepper spray video on Janet Napolitano;s Facebook page several times.

[-] 1 points by unfleecedbysheep (153) 11 years ago

it is not legal. when the law enforcement don't enforce themselves, it is called a police state.

To protect a serve is their motto. Guess who their referring to.

[-] 1 points by bigz133 (1) from Monroe, MI 11 years ago

Im just now getting into all this #ows activity and before I had no idea what it truly was, but I am now educated. This idea adn movement needs to keep going. I live in Michigan, and we need this movement now more than ever. Thank you my generation for finally taking a stand. #ows

[-] 1 points by Richard0001 (1) 11 years ago

I wish there was a way I could share the photo of the cops surrounding Chase bank. It says a billion words. I want to post it on facebook... I want it to go viral. It says everything. It takes the focus off the protesters and places it on the problem.

[-] 1 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 11 years ago

Looks like the nationalist party pepperspraying people for just taking a seat ! Brultality!

The American police force have become the "BROWN SHIRT GESTAPHO GOONS" of this new millenium.

[-] 1 points by camillemalcolm (4) 11 years ago

I still think that a conversation needs to happen with the tea party. This is common ground

[-] 1 points by 1stAmendMatters (1) 11 years ago

These Asheville, NC policewoman comments captured by an Asheville blogger seem to show a particular policeperson mood. She calls the OWS protesters "dirt asses" http://jasonbugg.com/blog/2011/11/07/even-the-dirtasses/

Good job to Jason Bugg to get this.

[-] 1 points by socialmedic (178) 11 years ago

from what I can tell the legal precedent for curfews on public spaces started in the Tompkins square park incident. I remember New Yorkers telling me they could go into Central Park in the '70's without fear. The FEAR has been manufactured. The top 1% love living in fear. It helps them rationalize their squandering of wealth. It is absolutely absurd that the suffering identify with these people because they want to be rich, indeed if anyone wants that kind of power to abuse power they should never have the privilege of money..

[-] 1 points by JosephCouture (45) 11 years ago

Part of the reason people lost respect for the Occupy London movement is because some of their leaders said the 99 percent were not respectful enough of the police and the authorities. Those same authorities then swept them away and now they are gone and silenced.

Read about the London failure here: www.josephcouture.com "How To Blow A Revolution: The London Model"

[-] 1 points by misunderstood101 (68) from Los Angeles, CA 11 years ago

This i would expect,but don't like it by a country that i believe has sold out it's people and represent an foreign Constitution unknown to the general public.

[-] 1 points by irishman (16) 11 years ago


How the protesters reacted according to the video was perfect - the errant group of police were expelled by revulsion expressed through totally peaceful means. To the NYPD, shame on you - IMO, that officer who carried out the pepper spray attack should be fired - simple as!

Rise New York!

[-] 1 points by Nycholas (1) 11 years ago

In-all-cases, it proves that freedom claimed by the laws in United States and from everywhere else in the world is an illusion. True freedom comes from within ourselves through awareness of our rights and responsibilities to ourselves and others in the greatest of respect. That's what I believe in.

I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. Mahatma Gandhi

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 11 years ago

Did anyone invent something that launches stickers?

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 11 years ago

That retired police officer would had been helpful to open up the issues that would get the police to work with us.

[-] 1 points by jAy2011 (2) 11 years ago

Taking officer's badge numbers and reporting them does NOTHING. As long as the people investigating cases of police brutality are the same police committing the actions nothing can be accomplished. The police brutality that has taken place during these Occupy protests is beyond the scale of anything that has happened in a long time in America. We need a separate entity to investigate cases of brutality. Write and phone your local congressman and tell them to push for real punishments for cops who abuse innocent citizens. The sergeant who ran up from behind and pepper-sprayed a woman in the face who was walking away had 10 of his vacation days taken away and that's it! DO NOT allow the United States to become a truly tyrannical state.

[-] 1 points by Jonas541 (72) 11 years ago


[-] 1 points by ugnww (0) 11 years ago

There is widespread violation of human rights in the United States. It avoided media attention in the past. OWS shows the people in America how serious the problem is and how urgent it needs to be dealt with.

OWS is going to win the moral battle, as usual, again.

[-] 1 points by Windsofchange (1044) 11 years ago

This is sooo wrong. Well, now it confirms it for me, WE ARE HEADING INTO A POLICE STATE. Expect more police brutality. Keep fighting the good fight to the end--they can't stop us!!!!

[-] 1 points by sleepinggiant (7) from Buffalo, NY 11 years ago

Occupy Foxnews! Occupy macys parade! Occupy earth!

[-] 1 points by sinead (474) 11 years ago

Okay, well I can say that it seems totally unnecessary to pepper spray those kids..... it was wrong and I would never try to say other wise. But to say this video has "graphic" images is a bit of a stretch in my opinion.

During the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago when students and others were protesting the Vietnam war there was brutality, real brutality. I have no problem with people calling out law enforcement on what they did...... as I said it was wrong. But why make this out to be something it obviously isn't..... (Do a search on YouTube on the 1968 Convention.... what you'll see will be far more graphic in nature than this was)

[-] 2 points by divineright (664) 11 years ago

Keep in mind we live in a much more politically correct world today (at least in words if not in actions).

[-] 0 points by sinead (474) 11 years ago

I know that no one has asked but, in my opinion that is part of the problem with our "world today", we are too politically correct. For those of us who demonstrated against the Vietnam war reading things like this makes the OWS's claims nothing but hyperbole.

Look what is happening in Egypt ......... now that is brutality.

[-] 2 points by divineright (664) 11 years ago

There definitely a duality there that we have to learn to balance. We aren't going to politically correct the world out of brutality anytime soon. The best we can do now is strive for balance and keep things in perspective (especially understanding where we stand in relativity to situations like Egypt).

[-] 0 points by sinead (474) 11 years ago


[-] 1 points by mjbento (74) 11 years ago

Disgusting. This will continue while Wall Street controls police chain of command.

[-] 1 points by mikedenis (49) 11 years ago

boycott Wal-Mart

[-] 1 points by Ubuntu (34) from Brooklyn, NY 11 years ago

Ladies and gents this is oppression as well as repression. We are all oppressed together. Let the oppression and repression only make the unification of consciousness stronger. Be well we will get through this together.

[-] 1 points by wiseone60 (3) 11 years ago

assholes ...this is what happens ..when power is misused..since 9/11 it went to all there heads..the so called heroes can do nothing wrong

[-] 1 points by BillMcBiliard (6) from Burlington, VT 11 years ago

so after 9//11 police aren't heroes?

[-] 1 points by royfolker65 (3) from Spokane, WA 11 years ago

Why do you think the UC Davis police did this? It was never to arrest the protesters on the ground - it was to provoke a violent confrontation with the students. Watch the video - they came to that protest armed for bear. They were hoping it would turn ugly and thus provide them with the 'justification' for using the weapons on more students and sending more to the hospital. When they attack people in this way, they are trying to get the crowd to disregard their commitment to non-violence so the police (and the 1%) can say "see - they really are violent and dangerous". They way the crowd got the storm troopers to retreat and withdraw without striking a single blow is truly inspiring.

[-] 1 points by steffanytran (1) 11 years ago

Check out the rest of the UC Davis police brutality through Aggie photographer, Brian Nguyen.


I'm still appalled. -Steffany

[-] 1 points by socialmedic (178) 11 years ago

I think in what ever way the message is heard, it must constantly be there because before nothing was heard, but now we know you are there. I am surprised that no march has been made on Tompkins Square but maybe now is the appropriate time for it. Perhaps we should recognise that the leaders of human suffrage in New York died a long time ago and their decendants have none of their spirit. I wold lobby Washington, if I were you for the de-regluation of the street in front of Wall Street so that the pain of the de-regulation of Wallstreet can be felt first hand by wall street ... that is those who need to hear the message.

[-] 1 points by galaxyscout (6) 11 years ago

The pepper spraying is so weird because the officer looks so non-challant, as if he is decorating a cake or spray painting a car or something. But I also wanted to say that it sounds like black and white, all or nothing thinking to categorize the police into 1 of 3 categories. I think there are gray areas to consider. And unless you are educating yourself form information other than mainstream media, you may easily have a one sided idea of what is going on.

[-] 1 points by wupta (25) 11 years ago

We live in America and not Syria. This country is supposed to stand for human rights and constitutional law. The blatant hypocrisy of our leaders who criticize other nations for suppression of legitimate voice of the protesters is shameful and frankly it pisses me off. Where is Obama, Hillary Clinton, or any of these leaders, just remembered they aren't our leaders, they are the mouth pieces of the corporations that own them. We will win, we will persevere and in the end we will change the world. It's us against them. These aren't our police these are the 1% tools. Let's not pretend we are breaking laws and allow the the latitude for the actions that are blatantly abusive and unnecessary. They do have brains or don't they. We aren't in a monolithic society with automatons running the bureaucracies., We pay their salaries and they are our SERVANTS!!!

Let's never forget how we were treated. There are many blatant police abuses that go unpunished and they stick together protecting each other against the civilian population whom they don't protect they extract a living from. These may not be all the police but it sure looks like the majority.

[-] 1 points by flang23 (47) 11 years ago

Disgraceful. The protesters are clearly subdued and offering no resistance nor threat. If the protesters had done something illegal / violent prior to the filming it is not be the officer's job to mete out punishment like this. If the protesters were "illegally" blocking the path they should simply be arrested and removed from the area. This video fucking infuriates me.

[-] 1 points by mwm (2) from Glendale, NSW 11 years ago

its hardly strange but the OWS occupy movement writers indicate that the credit crisis is really because so much wealth has gone to the few- Of the few - none give it away (as in threefold community "gift money") and no polli dares to tax it back,... But that's all it would take to fix the budgets of P.I.G.S. and USA - a commitment for austerity - not for the poor but for the rich? m

[-] 1 points by OneVoice (153) 11 years ago

It's incidents like these that are good for the Occupy Movement. It shows how strong a picture is. Corporations will try to use images against the movement and it's why it is important to hold a higher standard than those who are in authority. This incident would have destroyed decades of police and community relations if it happened in my area. As corporations and politicians join forces and gear up against the movement the Media will play an important role in flashing any negative image against people utilizing their right to free speech. This was one small lose for corporate america. They are still arrogant and plan on a decisive propaganda victory.

[-] 1 points by cisc1970 (1) 11 years ago

Many of these law enforcement officers belong to unions. They have contracts reached through arbitration. They have to come to the side of the 99%. Their work benefits include job security, pension, medical coverage, sick days, holiday pay, and dental. But everyone deserves these kinds of benefits. How can we bring them over to where we stand?

[-] 0 points by argheebe (11) 11 years ago

Cops are tools of the system, cisc1970.
Unions represent lots of people out their in the world of labor....like professional baseball, football, and basketball players. Do you think those pro athletes are part of the 99%? I support the right to open arbitration for decent contracts for workers...period. But, class issues are not evident in pro sports...just money and more money. Cops, on the other hand, are unionized for the same reason that other workers are organized ...to get their share of the pie. It matters not that they are tools of the 1% ...they still need a livable wage and benefits to survive. Taxpayers, however, foot their payroll. There are differences and there are similarities but CLASS is what this is all about ...and warfare is what is always going on -- CLASS WARFARE -- in one respect or another. The scales can tip either way. Hopefully, Occupy is a wake-up notice to the 1%. BUT, I doubt it.

[-] 1 points by Coinyer101 (25) 11 years ago

Huffington Post has this story headlined right now....,

[-] 1 points by JohnEllis (5) 11 years ago

(1) Most all of the Occupy movement are among the 49% of society with no wealth. Whereas, police are of the 51% with all the wealth, the 51% voting majority, all with great jobs, terrific homes and deluxe healthcare.

(2) The goal of our Occupy movement is to force the 51% voting majority, the upper half of society, to trickle down sufficient wealth so that we can have safe bridges, adequate education, lifesaving healthcare and a living wage.


[-] 1 points by unarmed (213) 11 years ago

I have NEVER seen or heard of an instance of Police abuse that Police or Police apologist Didn't have an excuse for. This instance will be no different.

[-] 1 points by genanmer (822) 11 years ago

For those who haven't already seen this

A Message to All Police Officers From Occupy Wall Street




[-] 0 points by SARAHSKENANDORE (0) 11 years ago

WTF!!! Why are we just standing there and taking this shit! There is only a handful of them and hundreds of us! this is fucked up!! This enrages me, on how we can just sit there and take it! Why not go balls to the wall! They feel like they can go balls to the wall, its time to give them a taste of their own medicine!! Why not!! There are most likely going to be a few who will get taken down, but they are the heros, and WE ALL SHOULD BE HEROS!!! WHY ARE WE AFFRAID OF THEM?? Is it beacuse they are wearing a black suit and carry pepper spray and guns!! If you move a gun before the guy fires, then he can't aim at you!! Right??!! TAKE ACTION AND DEFEND YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




[-] 0 points by Var (195) 11 years ago

Cops have been put on leave.


Bad cops. No doughnut.

[-] 0 points by raines (699) 11 years ago

He should be given a commendation.

[-] 0 points by xposingfalsehoods (39) 11 years ago

Its time for violence against the next cop who violates you...hes is not a cop but another human when these crimes are committed...people need to stop this turn the other cheek mentality

[-] 0 points by ComunistUSA (58) 11 years ago

We think that a powerful and vigorous movement is impossible without differences — "true conformity" is possible only in the cemetery.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 11 years ago

Hooray for that retired police captain. After being a cop for however many years and rising through the ranks, staying inside and on the good side of a corrupt and brutal system at this point in time he symbolically stands with the victims of other cops. that's all.

[-] 1 points by divineright (664) 11 years ago

A true hero. Can you say gravitas?

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 11 years ago

No. We need hero active duty cops, to throw away their badges and join the people, not wear the badge, do what they do and get afat pension and THEN join the people. No we don't, not retired police captains who have done what cops do to come around later and tell the world they're different from other cops.

[-] 1 points by divineright (664) 11 years ago

Give the guy a break. At least maybe he tried to make the changes he could within the system. There was no one fighting corruption before. It's hard to do standing alone. I tried it for years myself and only became the victim of more good old boy harassment. Do active duty cops need to realize what a fine line they stand on? Yes.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 11 years ago

Let's see him as he is. He's a veteran of the system who is now after it all, making a moral statement. OK, but let's not go overboard with this making a hero out of him.

[-] 1 points by divineright (664) 11 years ago

Fair enough.

[-] 0 points by queenann (-220) from New Rochelle, NY 11 years ago

You're gonna have to serve somebody Yes you're gonna have to serve somebody Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord But you're gonna have to serve somebody

[-] 0 points by mrkeyjr (29) 11 years ago

I applaud the restraint that the police demonstrated here. Granted, we do have the right of expression, but not when it comes at the expense of others. Just like any demonstration, protest, parade, or celebration, permits need to be obtained to ensure an orderly situation. These individuals clearly did not seek out said permits, and were protesting rather than doing something that would actually help their cause, that being working hard to find a job.

[-] 0 points by queenann (-220) from New Rochelle, NY 11 years ago

You're gonna have to serve somebody Yes you're gonna have to serve somebody Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord But you're gonna have to serve somebody

[-] 0 points by rys2sense (0) 11 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYe_PHgUYR8 OWS needs to Man up. This passive cry baby attitude is getting no where. When someone is being beaten right in front of you be it my a police or a gang or whoever it doesn't matter, you have a moral responsibility to try to stop it. Not just sit there yelling shame and hoping to get a good video for youtube.


[-] 0 points by sufinaga (513) 11 years ago

LT JOHN PIKE please submit photos of his family and friends.

[-] 0 points by eyeofthetiger (304) 11 years ago

These pics look like the death camps in Poland during WW2


[-] 0 points by NotRichEnough (18) 11 years ago

You all realize that the officer was ordered to spray, right? He wasn't acting without expressed permission and orders.

[-] 0 points by Var (195) 11 years ago

Let's give that that pepper spray-happy cop a free plane ticket to Papua New Guinea so he can "get friendly" with the cannibals.



[-] 0 points by Happierbanker (23) 11 years ago

They were ordered to move. They refused. JUSTIFIED!

[-] 1 points by sleepinggiant (7) from Buffalo, NY 11 years ago

Ordered? Why?

[-] 1 points by Happierbanker (23) 11 years ago

They blocked the path of the cruiser. Lucky they didn't get some baton therapy.


[-] 0 points by NotRichEnough (18) 11 years ago

Will someone post footage of UC Davis that includes the 30 minutes before the pepper spray?

[-] 0 points by Sharpie933 (20) 11 years ago

I object to the term queer. I know quite a few gay people who do not like to be labeled as such. Please do not use such derogatory terms against them. I don't see how the fringe groups of the gay rights movement were able to convince colleges and universities to use an offensive slur in their department labels, but it needs to end. Gay people are not queer. They are normal.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 11 years ago

The occupiers are getting tougher every day. Best protest to date. Great job occupiers.

[-] 0 points by OWSNewPartyTakeNY2012 (195) 11 years ago

they attack you its peace keeping, you attack them its a riot. That's what they want though, They want you to strike back so they can have an excuse to go full force and shut you down. Fucking Pigs.

[-] 0 points by RobertUeberfeldt (44) from Kaikohe, Northland 11 years ago

Kinda like walking past them stroking them with a cattle prod (just lasts longer).


[-] 0 points by PissedOffPeter (1) 11 years ago

What I love is how this makes it appear as though this is just a police offer freely having his way with pepper spray.

Here's the REAL TRUTH:
The protesters on the ground were told to move off the walkway. You see, they sat down as a form of "Civil Disobedience" in order to BLOCK the walkway. When one was removed, another protester took his/her place. Which basically turned into a losing battle for police to CLEAR the walkway.

As you can see in the video - ALL other protesters on the GRASS - where Police told them they could FREELY protest and do their thing. As long as they did not block the walkways, sidewalks, or streets. (Which, by the way, contrary to every OWS who seems to think he's a constitutional scholar, is NOT covered by the 1st Amendment - if it was, there would be serious problems througout the country on a regular basis if blocking streets, stopping people on sidewalks, etc. was covered by "free speech")

Anyhow, I digress... the Police then made it clear to the people SITTING on the sidewalk, that if they did NOT move out of the way - they (Police) would use Pepper Spray instead. The people on the sidewalk refused to move, as well as the crowd encouraged them to continue sitting there and not move.

The Police WARNED these obviously unintellegent people sitting on the walkway 5 times. They STILL refused to move. (well, actually two of them actually got up - he didn't want to suffer the consequenses of his own personal actions by defying an order by an officer of the law to move to the side... Litterally 3 or 4 feet for most of them).

So, in a nutshell - this is NOT a case of Police Abuseing their power, and just randomly shooting people in the face with Pepper Spray. The only people who were shot with Pepper Spray, CHOSE TO BE SHOT IN THE FACE BY PEPPER SPRAY.

Yes, I said it - THEY CHOSE TO BE SPRAYED TO BE PEPPER SPRAYED. If they didn't wish to recieve pepper spray in their faces, they only had to stand up, and walk 3 feet to their left or right. And they would NEVER had this happen to them.

So, Occupy Wall Street and all your ILK who are trying to garner sympathy from the world by saying the you are being repressed by police with their pepper spray - remember - You had an OPTION as to whether or not you would continue to SIT on the walkway and be sprayed, or to move to the side to where you were FREE TO PROTEST TO YOUR HEARTS CONTENT...

You chose to be sprayed... So... All I can say is - Oh Well, Poor You, You pretty much GAVE PERMISSION to the officer to do so. So stop your crying...

[-] 1 points by royfolker65 (3) from Spokane, WA 11 years ago

So the kid with glasses GAVE PERMISSION for the school bully to beat him by not handing over his lunch money when the bully told him to? How about the protesters in Egypt? Did they GIVE PERMISSION to be killed when they refused to leave the public square where they were protesting? These people are exercising their Constitutionally protected right to peaceably protest. Neither the police nor university officials nor the State of California has the authority to dictate that they may only protest on the grass. It is clear that these storm troopers have no interest in protecting or serving the people - they are only there to protect the interests of the 1%.

[-] 0 points by PissedOffPeter (1) 11 years ago

This just made the Occupy The Truth Blog on Facebook with almost my exact comments! Cool! LOL


[-] 0 points by jane1 (100) 11 years ago

OWS we are with you do not listen too hatefilled comments!! DOWNwith the GOP/tea, indep.-Coperate Greed! The people will be heard. OWS we see your fight not just the US but the World!!

[-] 1 points by BillMcBiliard (6) from Burlington, VT 11 years ago

implying this is a solely democratic party movement.


[-] 0 points by dubhe3 (3) 11 years ago

I don't really think you actually believe you represent the 99%. For example, do you believe the police are part of the 99%? Of course not. Republicans? No way!. Christians, party affiliation not withstanding? Sincerely doubt it. Have I left out a group you consider abhorrent? oh yes, I forgot the tea party. Certainly they are excluded. Independents-yes and no. So, lets do the math.....what percent is that now? lolol

[-] 0 points by dubhe3 (3) 11 years ago

so jon stewart reports class division in zuccotti park among OWS protesters ....wow...uptown vs. downtown.....

[-] 0 points by aonsetuhaonsut (0) 11 years ago

i noticed a link for Rarely Punished but not Capt. Lewis

also, stop chanting at pigs and hit them in the head instead

[-] 0 points by hotrod02 (21) 11 years ago

I am a world traveler with a passport filled with destination stamps. I have been traveling now for many years. Sadly, in almost every destination I have visited there has been obnoxious levels of poverty...even in places like Europe. Poverty in the world is one of those things you have to get used to if you want to travel abroad. In comparison, there really isnt that much poverty in the United States. Everyone here lives fairly well. Its funny to me to see people protesting. What are they protesting exactly? Student loan debt? Corporate greed? None of these are really good excuses when compared to how others live throughout the world.

There are families who right now live in the streets of the Philippines, there are people getting killed everyday in Colombia over an ongoing drug war, people are actually getting shot&killed (not just receiving a bad dose of pepper spray) in Syria and Mexico is one ongoing story of poverty. Seeing the protesters armed with thousands of dollars in video equipment, laptops, ipods, iphones and having the latest clothes...who are they to compare themselves to these other people in the world who actually have something to complain about.

My perception is this is a bunch of spoiled brats who are complaining because things are a little bit tough right now. They are finding they can no longer afford the Iphone or the latest in Canon cameras. The student loans and house loans, which they volunteered to sign up for and were way beyond their means to repay, are now going bad. They are finding they actually have to take real jobs which involve some creativity and work then the old days where they took a job involving sitting in an office doing nothing.

Folks, lets get real. What are you protesting exactly? While we can do little to solve world's obnoxious level of poverty levels, we can celebrate what we do have. We can also adapt and overcome. For example, there are plenty of jobs out in North Dakota which are paying double the rate because of the oil boom. Why not take a chance and go there? I can tell you what will not improve your situation and thats to sit around with a sign causing trouble and antagonizing the local police force. Face it, you live a luxury existence. Do you live in the streets? Do you live in a boxcar? If you are reading this then you probably dont. So go out tonight and celebrate what you do have...dont sit there like a brat and complain about what you dont have...

[-] 2 points by GreenIguana (36) from New York, NY 11 years ago

So, because things aren't as bad as they are in Third World countries, we shouldn't be upset yet? We should wait until the USA is a Third World country until we start protesting??

[-] 3 points by andthetruthwillsetyoufree (16) 11 years ago

Actually, for some people in the U.S. it already IS like a third world country in terms of poverty. On Native American reservations, for example.


[-] -1 points by hotrod02 (21) 11 years ago

I disagree with this statement. I dont see anyone living as bad as they do in the Philippines or some parts of Mexico. There is no comparison. I dont know how they live on reservations, but where I am everyone appears to have a roof over their heads. Even the homeless get 3 meals a day and have someplace warm to stay at night in the local shelter.

[-] -2 points by argheebe (11) 11 years ago

HotRod, you're an ignorant idiot. You need to pull that passport out and get gone ...pickup your marbles and leave.

[-] 2 points by FernandoG (9) from St Petersburg, FL 11 years ago

This is how selfish people react. If you don't agree with them and try to present a debate, they resort to childish name calling. They are afraid of debate... It's a shame too because I also want change in this country, but the more I read about what they say, the more I am disappointed...

[-] 2 points by hotrod02 (21) 11 years ago

Is this how Occupiers treat people? They start calling people idiots when there is disagreement?

[-] 2 points by argheebe (11) 11 years ago

Just you, hotrod, just you. disagreement? you seem to have all the answers, so why isn't your ass in the street? ...learning what is really going on? Again, take a trip and get another stamp. It's okay. Come back after it's over.

[-] -1 points by hotrod02 (21) 11 years ago

My friend this isnt "bad" yet. "Bad" is when you are living on the street, have a fear of getting shot just by walking the street and live with a war. Things here are pretty good and you have lots of options. If you really think this is bad then I will buy you a ticket to somewhere to show you just what "bad" is. If you are reading this, obviously you have internet service, a computer, a roof over your head...you are doing just fine. Stop whining and complaining that you are not driving around in a jaguar and eating steak. Be happy with your chicken sandwhich and iphone.

Plus, like I said, you do have options like move to North Dakota. Six figure salaries over there in the oil industry. Move to Texas. Dont just sit on your behind, pitch a tent in a park and mess with the local cops until they get so fed up with you that they start dousing you with the pepper spray. Be a constructive individual in life...get a job.

[-] 2 points by BTKcongress (149) 11 years ago

once again, OWS strives, ultimately, for a better, and more just society... and they/we don't need to be the absolutely poorest of the poor to want that. there are grave problems with the US presently, and OWS wants to fix them. all you offer is: "there are poorer people in the world." well, what good is that fact??? how is it even relevant???

[-] 1 points by GreenIguana (36) from New York, NY 11 years ago

You are missing the point...perhaps deliberately. I notice you didn't respond to what I said. Everyone in Michigan and Ohio can't move to North Dakota. But that isn't the point. The point is that from 2000 to 2005, hourly wages didn't rise even though the GDP did. Meanwhile, mortgage payments, tuition at 4 year colleges and health insurance premiums went up more than 25 percent (and health insurance continues to skyrocket). It can't be sustained. What will you suggest next, that people don't need health insurance or a college education? Deregulation of the financial industry led to the 2008 collapse; no one has been held accountable...that's injustice. We shouldn't be upset? We should be happy we still have a chicken sandwich? (I don't have an Iphone). We're still the richest country in the world but we have nowhere near the highest standard of living...something is very wrong. Dare to believe you deserve more than a chicken sandwich.

[-] 1 points by argheebe (11) 11 years ago

Greenlguana, hotrod does have more than a chicken sandwich...that's the problem. he/she is a wannabe 1%er.

[-] 1 points by h3lly3s (2) 11 years ago

I am from the Philippines. My parents grew up on a small island, belonging to five generations of local fishing communities by the centuries-old island market. My father lived in a nipa hut with his 9-person family and even as a young boy, sold candy on the streets to supplement the family income. My father's playmates as a child are still there, and their children, the children of my generation, are still living in the same state of economic poverty, the one may have seen while traveling in the Philippines. I somehow escaped that life.

In order to escape that five-generations-long labor cycle, my father signed up to be an economic immigrant, to work with a company in the US that offered a contentious Greencard 'sponsorship' and fixed long-term minimum wages for manual work in quasi-'local' furniture production. I consider my background to be of the largely unnarrativized modern American working class family. I have met many from all around the world. Despite our relatively poor economic agency here in the US, immigrant families like mine still contribute money to our relatives and local industries back 'home,' and are part of the first generation of workers to have this capacity for economic support beyond local trade or labor.

I am now a college student with a full scholarship at a university with one of the highest endowments in the world, surrounded by the sea of astounding American privilege that blinds your perception of this movement. Now, I'm only drawing attention to my story, which is similar and far surely better off than others, because I think people like me sense how American society and its economic politics DO affect people from around the world.

From regional social consumerism to the international market of American cultural products (fashion, film, music, medicines, hygiene products, all those fancy gadgets that you mention, etc.), from the national sociospacial and economic revolution of Fordist technologies to the global expansion of American neoliberal ethics, American society and politics have had quite an astounding effect on the world in the past fifty years. I imagine it is quite difficult to fathom the extent of 'American power,' perhaps unless one is already overtly nationalist in mind. But in any case, it is undeniable that this power affects the world at its current stage, as it has for many decades now (i.e. The Middle East!). Now, Americans are coming to realize just how American corporatism has evolved, tracing how it has fundamentally infiltrated and transformed politics in the last few years, and how it has shaped and sustained our current socioeconomic reality of recession, unemployment, student debt, a poor education system, and other striking inequalities across class, race, and gender. You do not have to see poverty on the streets to realize that this system is not working out.

[-] 1 points by h3lly3s (2) 11 years ago


The 'ethics' of inequality in our economic system were obviously not considered when our global market was established; that started way back, perhaps in 1492, or perhaps, later, with the introduction of capitalism. But while the historical origin of our inequality can be continuously revised, our current historical 'situation' cannot be reframed in such an easy manner. One cannot look simply at the 'luxury existence' of Americans and say that all is well. We have to think about our condition in a more ‘holistic’ way, and that includes thinking about our past.

Most of my classmates belong to the second or older generation of suburban and urban Americans, whose family directly benefited from and engaged in all the historical events discussed earlier –events that contributed to the expansion of American power. I think it is important that people start to become aware of the history of their own privilege, and how this privilege has evolved and is culpable for the inequalities that we see today. There is a 99% and a 1% division in our society. If that is not an inequality worthy of thinking about, worthy of bringing to light especially to those whose privilege has been masked as natural, then what do you suggest that these Americans -who are now realizing the degree and extent of American corporatism in politics within and beyond its national boundaries- should do?

I realize now that I've covered a whole range of topics (I was triggered by your Philippines comment, ha) and I don't have the will or energy to defend all of them. All I can say at this point is that I support and appreciate this movement for bringing to light these issues that affect how people live all over the globe. I do not see it as a 'complaint for what people don't have' but a basic objection to this current system of politics and its infinitely negative effects. Maybe for you, it seemed like people in the Philippines were living isolated in their own poverty, but I guarantee you that a majority of those street dwellers are also very knowledgeable about American chocolate brands and popular music. It may seem like a strange possibility, but this world is intricately linked -often contradictorily- and it is important to recognize one's role in it. I hope Occupy Wall Street will help Americans, and other people from around the world, realize just that.

[-] 1 points by dakota (62) from Canton, MI 11 years ago

hotrod02, Come to Detroit and I will show you poverty that rivals the worst in the world. Please bring your own bullet proof vest. Then we will visit the Appalachians. Once we are done there, we will head to areas of Gulf Coast. Surely, it will open your eyes to real poverty in the United States. I too have traveled the world. Come with me and I will teach you.

[-] 1 points by FernandoG (9) from St Petersburg, FL 11 years ago

I don't understand... When I was young my parents told me to study hard and get good grades. If I get good grades, then I can make it into a good college and get a good job when I graduate. They wanted me to be a doctor or lawyer, you know, one of the well paying jobs... Isn't it similar in your family?

I use to tell my mom that I will be a doctor so I can make lots of money and she will not have to work so hard anymore...

So you graduate and because of the economy there isn't a job waiting for you... and you get mad and complain that there are people making more money than you... Isn't it like buying a lottery ticket and not winning the jackpot... then go back to the store and not only demand your dollar back but also want part of the jackpot someone else won...

Wake up people, you lost the lottery, so have I, get your act together and move forward!

[-] 1 points by BTKcongress (149) 11 years ago

wow--you can't even see a message here? there are a lot of them, and i understand you might be confused, just like your very confused logic that because we're not abjectly destitute, there's nothing wrong worth fixing. but these fine folks basically want to make the country better, as it's falling apart and headed down the wrong road. maybe you've spent too much time travelling and not enough time learning, reading, helping, creating, innovating and improving--that fact must be very dissatisfying to you.

[-] 0 points by Crid (6) 11 years ago

You know what really sucks, is that that pig is going to get away with it.

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 11 years ago

I don't think so.

[-] 3 points by Crid (6) 11 years ago

Name ONE cop that has actually been held responsible for ANY act of police brutality throughtout this whole occupy thing.

[-] 0 points by RobertUeberfeldt (44) from Kaikohe, Northland 11 years ago

From Occupy Wall St Fb page Quote Tara Dawn: Name and contact for the officer who pepper sprayed these students: Lieutenant John Pike 530-752-3989 japikeiii@ucdavis.edu

... ... ... ... ... Who to call to ask for his immediate dismissal from UCDPD:

Annette M. Spicuzza UC Davis Police Chief (530) 752-3113


[-] -1 points by TheNewMovement (46) 11 years ago

I have been against the movement on everything except anti-corruption, after this I hope the protest turns into a riot and offers some payback but please leave businesses alone and aim for banks and police stations.

[-] -1 points by ComunistUSA (58) 11 years ago

Glad to see my tax dollars being used for a good cause : )

[-] -1 points by ComunistUSA (58) 11 years ago

I don't understand how you can fathom a statistic like 99% when even your own website appears to be more like 50%.

[-] 0 points by TheNewMovement (46) 11 years ago

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." ~Voltaire

Once they do away with our first amendment the next will be our second, if you agree with the movement or not you should not be okay with the violation of constitutional rights.

[-] -1 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 11 years ago

HAHAHA wow a totally laid-back walk-by pepper spraying. That cop looks like he's just going for a stroll in the garden and spraying the noxious weeds - awesome! He's my new hero!


[-] 1 points by BTKcongress (149) 11 years ago

Let's see how this plays out--maybe reason will prevail...but the French in the late 1700s did ultimately have to rely on guillotines.

Note of irony: French debt still triple AAA rated,,,, US debt double AA-

[-] 1 points by bankrun2011 (89) 11 years ago

I favor a diversity of tactics...

[-] -2 points by shabutie2112 (-2) 11 years ago

As sad as it is to watch these people do nothing but chant is really not inspiring it is rather discouraging because this whole movement hasn't done anything that is truly helping anyone and I'm frankly tired of it get up off the ground and find a job where ever you can find one you are not a percentage the only reason you think that you are is because you have been brainwashed to think that you deserve what the rich have. The sad truth is you don't just because they have the money doesn't make them better than you but the way your acting definitely makes your case even less credible. Also, why not attack the appropiate people and the source for the banks getting away with all the "injustice"...Congress and the President they have done nothing but help the banks remember the bank bailouts? I do and Obama gave them that money with no stipulations and they gave out bonuses so really who should be blames? Obama and Congress for wasting money on these banks they should have let them fail and experience how it feels for other people to have nothing. But, instead like most Dems they would rather hand out money to people that have done nothing to improve themselves nor their lives. Please people open your eyes it is our government our officials that we elected that have caused this mess that we are in and it is our fault for letting them get away with it. We need term limits for our government officials so they dont get comfortable with their power and use it to make money by allowing corporations and banks to pay them off. Please for the good of this nation open your eyes to this face and stop letting the government over reach its bounds it is not their business what we do in our free time it is not up to them to make tough decisions for us, we need to grow up and take responsibility for ourselves. Read the Declaration of Independence it is up to us to do what this movement is but you people are doing it the wrong way and it is obviously not working two months and no progress just more ignorance begetting more ignorance. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,[74] that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." Please open your eyes our politicians are the ones causing these problems they spend more than they take in and they spend on things that shouldn't be their concern. Government has become to large and needs to be taken down a notch or 12. Government should never be bigger than its people and our politicians have ensured that it is. The average salary for a politician is $174,000, REALLY???? why do they deserve to make this much money? yet we attack wall street people in the private sector that don't steal your money, you invest it and trust that you'll have a ROI.

[-] 1 points by FernandoG (9) from St Petersburg, FL 11 years ago

I agree, the blame is put on the 1% for making money and getting tax breaks instead of the unethical government official who took bribes to look the other way. The blame is put on the police officers but from all the hate I am reading on this site, I start to wonder if the officers were not provoked. The video I see is when the officer pepper-sprayed the protesters but doesn't show any footage leading up to it. When video is edited like that, it makes me wonder why parts of it was left out... I will look for more footage and hope to see the truth. If anyone has footage or can direct me to the proper site and it does show the that the officers were being brutal with no justification, then I will be the first to eat words and change my opinion.

[-] -3 points by bre0001 (50) from Brooklyn, NY 11 years ago

Maybe if you didn't crap and piss on the sidewalk, block businesses and people trying to get to work, spit in cops faces and push them, take over other people's property and many other things that break the law, you won't get your heads bashed in. Until then you will.

Feel free to LIKE me if you agree.

[-] 1 points by TankoHidiki (6) 11 years ago

spitting a cop in the face is assault. In this situation pepper spraying on people who are sitting there is excess force. The looks of how many cops there could of easily torn the protesters apart or even stepped over them.

[-] -1 points by bre0001 (50) from Brooklyn, NY 11 years ago

You can't fix stupid. They should of just got up and moved out of the way.

[-] 1 points by TankoHidiki (6) 11 years ago

You can fix stupidity. But the current education standards makes you say we can't. To be honest it was a stupid situation that got out of hand.

[-] 0 points by BTKcongress (149) 11 years ago

please source specifically and credibly each of the above instances to which you refer. i will check back tomorrow. i haven''t seen this behavior... don't forget the parks are deeded for public purposes (although privately owned) and there's an implied easement for the protesters.


[-] 1 points by Raulduke (14) 11 years ago

Is there somewhere we can donate money to buy police more pepper spray?


[+] -4 points by KelliMcK (-10) from Waterford, NJ 11 years ago

If they would protest more peacefully there wouldn't be such negative media attention. Listen to them and protest where you're allowed and there won't be such negative attention and "bad" things happening to the protesters. It's these "idiot protesters" that are taking the attention away from the cause and crying out for attention that are portraying the protesters as degenerates. Shame on YOU, protesters. Protest in PEACE and maybe JUST MAYBE you will get your point across in the right light!

[-] 4 points by GreenIguana (36) from New York, NY 11 years ago

"Protest where you're allowed" please read the US Constitution. It says the right to peacefully assemble shall not be abridged. Sitting down is peaceful. Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the history of the Civil Rights movement. I can imagine what you would have said if you'd been in the South in the 50s: "If only those black people had eaten lunch where they were allowed...if they had just followed the rules and done what the police said and kept to the black areas and not used white facilities and broken the law, then they wouldn't have gotten hurt." Change doesn't happen when people sit in a pen and hold a sign; it happens when people assert their power. Sadly the police are given their orders by a ruling class that has become corrupt. The rules and laws no longer protect the people; they protect the ruling class. They are protecting the rich the way they used to protect white privilege in the South. Wake up.

[-] 1 points by BTKcongress (149) 11 years ago

right to peacefully assemble has been abridged with what is referred to as "time, manner and place restrictions"--via numerous Supreme Court decisions. starting with the famous you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theatre decision.

[-] 1 points by GreenIguana (36) from New York, NY 11 years ago

Not yelling "fire" in a crowded theater when there's no fire is illegal but that has nothing to do with the right to peaceful assembly.

If we lived in a just society, there would be no need for any disruption, any fight. 'Time, manner and place" are determined by a ruling class that is no longer accountable to the public. The point is to illustrate that.

[-] 1 points by BTKcongress (149) 11 years ago

yelling "fire" absolutely does have everything to do with assembly, since assembly (and fire) are both constitutionally rooted in the right to freedom of expression,,, and both are limited by TMP restrictions...

[-] 3 points by andthetruthwillsetyoufree (16) 11 years ago

If the mainstream media wasn't owned and controlled by the 1%, there wouldn't be such negative media attention. Look up civil disobedience and nonviolence. And any lasting version of peace requires social justice.

[-] 1 points by timotato (3) 11 years ago

On the contrary, I think the majority of media is on the OWS side. There are so many pro-OWS articles and news reports appearing in the New York Times, The Washington Post, and even Forbes magazine. Search for them and you'll easily find them.

Nicolas Kristof, arguably the most read columnist at the NYT, wrote this yesterday: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/20/opinion/sunday/kristof-occupy-the-agenda.html?scp=20&sq=occupy%20wall%20street&st=cse

And I think there is no more telling fact that the press is with us than the reporting of the Brandon Watts incident (the bloody headed protester), which headlined all the papers a few days ago. Sure, some of the headlines called him a nuisence, but don't for one second believe that the papers really are against us because a picture tells 1000 words. They could have chosen any photo to print. They could have chosen one of Brandon knocking the officer's hat off but they chose the photo that showed police brutality instead. That photo propelled our movement forward by leaps & bounds, thd the press clearly knows this. FYI : http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/occupy-wall-street-finally-gets-face-bloody-153643148.html



[-] 1 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 11 years ago

You are seriously taking the position that anyone who disobeys the police is automatically wrong and deserves what they get?

I've met dogs with more humanity than you.


[+] -4 points by Crid (6) 11 years ago

Hey that shit is fucked up! Forget all this peaceful garbage , let's start serving up some payback!

[-] 2 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 11 years ago

It doesn't work. Seriously, look up the Ludlow Massacre. They are armed to the teeth using our own tax-payer dollars. They have no respect for human virtues: life, liberty, justice. They will attack us and charge us the bill for doing so.

Most of these people blindly follow their orders. Luckily, those who are inhuman enough to issue these orders are few in number. We need to replace them from the top, and the police will act for the people once they have good orders.

[-] 2 points by Crid (6) 11 years ago

Your right man, but watching this really flares me up.

[-] 3 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 11 years ago

Me too, it really burns a rage deep down inside me. These protestors have more strength than I have, I'm not sure I could contain myself if I saw this happen in front of me.

[+] -4 points by Glaucon (296) 11 years ago

This article is pure hyperbole. It is written in a dishonest way and is the type of propaganda that will spell the downfall of Occupy, a movement that could have been so beautiful.

Ironically, I had just posted this a few moments before this news article appeared: http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-made-a-grave-error-and-it-should-be-rectified/

[-] 6 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 11 years ago

The brutality shown in the video speaks for itself, no hyperbole needed.

[-] 0 points by Glaucon (296) 11 years ago

I saw the video. I'm talking about the text on this page and how Occupy is purposefully creating a propaganda campaign against the policemen. It's horrible.

[-] 4 points by nimbus22 (106) from Chaska, MN 11 years ago

Have you seen what the cops have been doing? Do you think people should be grateful for being beaten? is there something wrong with your reasoning skills? Do you have a learning disability? What part of beating unarmed peaceful people with weapons is hyperbole? There is such thing as rules of engagement and escalation of force. These are rules the cops have to follow. They are skipping through them. Even the military has these rules. What part of ignoring the escalation of force here is hyperbole? The part where the kids were sitting there and he made a show of spraying them for no reason? I dont get what you are saying. your statement defies reason.

[-] 3 points by Glaucon (296) 11 years ago

Logical Fallacy: Two wrongs don't make a right.

I don't think people should get beaten by cops. It's horrible.

However, I don't believe in using a propaganda campaign to demonize the policemen. This doesn't help the 99% and only serves to prepare them for a civil war. Policemen are not Tiananmen Tanks, there are more than three types of policemen, and the police in NY did not beat people because they were "people of color, trans and queer people, recreational drug users, sex workers, and many other marginalized communities". Those are lies, and it's not healthy.


[-] 3 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 11 years ago

Calling out officers who engage in brutality is not a campaign against police in general.

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 11 years ago

I will agree with you regarding the "3 kinds of police officers" remark. I don't think that's fair. Overall, it seems most officers have kept the peace without brutalizing peaceful citizens.

[-] 0 points by Glaucon (296) 11 years ago

Brutal repression is happening every day to occupiers around the world, people of color, trans and queer people, recreational drug users, sex workers, and many other marginalized communities.

That, and this is lame as heck. They know the OWS occupiers were kicked out of the park because the court refused them to right to camp there, not because the protesters are gay, black, jewish, or aliens. Occupy is extremely bad for doing this smear campaign against the police.

As far as I am concerned, OWS is not transparent at all. They are just as bad as the 1% they are attacking. The occupy in the hope that they get evicted with violence so they can then turn around and smear the policemen. Beautiful. They are preparing a civil war.

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 11 years ago

Well, they did say 'around the world' not only in Zucotti and not only to occupiers.

[-] 1 points by Glaucon (296) 11 years ago

OK, that makes it fine. Let's try and see how easy it is to use that tactic for purposes of propaganda.

All around the world, priests and school teachers are molesting children everyday. (It's true. There are priests and teachers who molest children everyday all around the world.)

All around the world, protesters are using violent terrorism to plant fear in their enemies. (It's true, there are protesters all around the world using violent terror to make their point.)

What's your line of work? Shall I go on? You're a lawyer? Every day lawyers rape women all around the world. (It's true, every day some women are raped by lawyers, and it happens all around the world.)

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 11 years ago

I see your point. Those types of statements do focus more on the line of work than on the repugnant acts. "Children are molested every day" has a different emphasis than "Priests and teachers molest children every day."

[-] 1 points by Glaucon (296) 11 years ago

In schools all around the world children are being brutally molested everyday; children of color, trans and queer children.... How can teachers and priests educate our children if they can't even respect them in the first place? Such incidents are unfortunately common.

[-] 2 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 11 years ago

Point take Glaucon. Pedophiles are the problem, not teachers and priests.

Excessive force and other forms of misconduct is the problem, not police officers.

[-] 0 points by Glaucon (296) 11 years ago

The problem is the excessive force used by some policemen, just like the problem in Oakland was a few protesters breaking windows. The difference is Occupy demonizes all cops, and excuses the black bloc by claiming it's only a minority group.

[-] 0 points by RMeacham (3) 11 years ago

@Glaucon do you really think this article is intentionally exaggerated? I'd say it's a pretty strait forward report of police brutality, complacency and nobility. The article clearly cites 3 examples of types of police officers. Watch the video and tell me thats not police brutality. Pepper sprayed for sitting on a sidewalk. Seriously? What did they do wrong? Assemble? The right guaranteed by the constitution that those officers are sworn to protect.

[-] 4 points by Glaucon (296) 11 years ago

Yes, I believe it is meant as pure propaganda to stem hate towards policemen. There are not only three types of policemen. This is a lie.

Brutal repression is happening every day to occupiers around the world, people of color, trans and queer people, recreational drug users, sex workers, and many other marginalized communities.

The policemen have not been brutal with protesters because they are racist. This is a lie. The policemen kicked out protesters from Zuccotti because they were camping, not because they were gay, black, green, or white.

Police are not Tiananmen Tanks like in the last poster.

This propaganda campaign is horrible. OWS is setting us up for a civil war. What they should be doing is the complete opposite. If they would portray policemen nicely, then it would make it more difficult for the police to become violent. I'm sad Americans don't see what is going on. But, I'm happy I'm in Bali so I won't have to be there when the real violence begins.

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 11 years ago

Damn. Being in Bali must be nice eh?

[-] 0 points by Glaucon (296) 11 years ago

Of course. That's why I'm here.

[-] -1 points by argheebe (11) 11 years ago

You are definitely in an "armchair" status, Glaucon. Get some lumps on your head (accidentally, of course) by the nice cops. ...see if your mind changes. Look at your history of the sixties. It took an unjustified bullshit war, after years of death and destruction, to bring this our social system to an awakening. I'm talking about the 60s. Check the cops out in that era. There were no cell phone cameras to expose who they really were.


[-] 0 points by argheebe (11) 11 years ago

Beautiful? Really? Glaucon, it's time for an awakening. There is no beauty in what is going on with this system.

[-] 3 points by Glaucon (296) 11 years ago

Did you read what I said? I said the Occupy movement could have been so beautiful. Unfortunately, it isn't, and neither is the system.

[-] 0 points by argheebe (11) 11 years ago

Not really clear on what your definition of "beautiful" is. The changes necessary to overthrow -- yes OVERTHROW - this oligarchy are just beginning to show fruition after many, many years of power struggle and control. Maybe we agree on the potential of what is happening in the streets ...if so, letz get busy and get on with the job at hand.

[-] 2 points by Glaucon (296) 11 years ago

By beautiful I mean lot better and generally inspiring.

[-] -1 points by argheebe (11) 11 years ago

lot better? generally inspiring? hell, Glaucon....this ain't no party! There are no rules. Peaceful protest is how it starts, then it swells, and then the cops come and make it unpeaceful. They protect the property of the system owners, do you get it? They would sooner thump your head with a club than to give you 30 seconds of nicey-nice talk. And oh, by the way, make sure to don't turn on your video cell phone for later reference purposes.

[+] -5 points by betuadollar (-313) 11 years ago

I'm not seeing brutality, only "gentle persuasion."

[-] 4 points by Thinkdeer (250) 11 years ago

you are blind, or a sadist.



[-] -1 points by betuadollar (-313) 11 years ago

That's how police officers and other members of law enforcement define it. This is the "kinder, gentler" method. The real method throughout mankind's history has been to behead those who are sitting. And in a world without police officers that's exactly what would happen.

[-] 1 points by Thinkdeer (250) 11 years ago

So your point is, unjust action is alright because it could have been a more unjust action, even though just action is available?

You are an irrational sadist.

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 11 years ago

My point is that they are physically charged with removing a human obstruction that is using gravity to resist. They are trying to do so without inflicting permanent injury or disability. If people are "immobilized" no one gets hurt.

[-] 2 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 11 years ago

Or they could simply wait. All the police are demonstrating is that the interest of the wealthy will have no compromise what so ever. If you delay the interest of the wealthy by even 1 second, your health and life are expendable.

The weighing of a small delay vs. human life demonstrates the sheer inhumanity of the law. Humans exist first, law is a creation of ours. We do not exist to serve the law, the law exists to serve us.

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 11 years ago

What the cops could do, and probably would if they had an option, is simply go home and ignore Occupy.

People like Bloomberg can't permit this because it would set precedent to all who want to park themselves as obstructions. And we have really serious crime elements out there that would like nothing better than an entirely free hand with which to prey upon people.

I honestly think, if the world ignored Occupy, it would simply meld away. It's like the old question, if a bear shits in the woods and there's no one there to smell it, etc. Without the antagonist the protagonist would not exist. Movements like Occupy thrive on it.

[-] 1 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 11 years ago

Occupy would not go away if it was ignored. It was born out of 30 years of declining wages, increasing costs for health care, shelter, education, environmental degradation, and all in all, people having less opportunity than their parents did.

The reason why it picked up so much momentum so quickly is that there are literally a hundred million people who have recognized what's going on, speak often about it, yet have absolutely no political representation what-so-ever. They feel powerless.

OWS was a physical manifestation of what people have been feeling for decades. People are rallying to it because they, for the first time, feel they can do something about it.

That is what they police are attacking. They are attacking the very idea that the people can challenge their overlords or have power in the political process.

[-] 1 points by Raulduke (14) 11 years ago

I think the coppers are protecting us(regular folks) from you(radical instigators) not attacking anyone. You spoke of political process. Where is the process. We do have a system in place. Why is there no rep for the occupy movement? Focus. Focus. Too much fringe. The next article people are talking about protesting Xmas. Get out of the tent and into ballot box.

[-] 1 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 11 years ago

I vote in every election. Let's use the Presidential Debates as an example of what's wrong. Do you even know how our candidates are selected and what kinds of questions may be asked?

It's not the League of Women Voters, and hasn't been since 1987. A private company called the Commission on Presidential Debates controls who is allowed to participate, what questions are asked, and who is arrested for trying to show up.

So, I write my representatives, my senators, vote in every election, and yet none of the issues anyone cares about are in the debate.

Try your Mohawk Valley Formula somewhere else.

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 11 years ago

No it wasn't... it was born right here on the Internet in the minds of children seeking a target for their youthful angst.

Previous generations had but one option - WORK. If they had viewed it as "opportunity" they would not have spoiled their children as they have.

The police are not "attacking" anything; they are defending public space.

[-] 1 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 11 years ago

Who do you think is providing the money to help keep these people going? People who work full time every day and are sick of living their entire lives in a corporate dictatorship where they have no say in how their own lives are managed. When a CEO screws up, the worker gets fired. When a worker does great work, the CEO keeps the profits.

Enjoy the show.

[-] 1 points by Thinkdeer (250) 11 years ago

or they could just go end to end breaking up the chain arresting one at a time. I don't take issue with police in general, and have watched them do this. I take issue with the sadists amongst them. you can justify obvious theatrical violence all you want, it is what it is.

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 11 years ago

Well, what can I say... pepper spray has become the norm; sometimes to a detriment as officers are reaching for spray when they should be reaching for a set of cuffs or even a gun. The courts have deemed it as preferential to the baton so it has become a requisite in terms of how we define an escalation of events. By the way, this is a staged event; you DO realize that right? There are not REAL police officers, campus cops maybe... but even that appears questionable.

[+] -6 points by Glaucon (296) 11 years ago

It's a shame that some policemen are brutal, it's horrible that Occupy demonizes all of them in hateful propaganda such as this post.

[-] 5 points by LastWaltz (115) from Medford, NY 11 years ago

What is propaganda here? They are brutal and OWS is saying that they are brutal and no one in their departments says a damn word.

[-] 2 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 11 years ago

All police are not demonized by the blatant behavior of some;however, when that power is abused, it must be acknowledged and dealt with precisely to protect those who do their jobs with humanity.

[-] -1 points by Glaucon (296) 11 years ago

The Tiananmen Tanks demonized all the policemen for the behavior of some.

Brutal repression is happening every day to occupiers around the world, people of color, trans and queer people, recreational drug users, sex workers, and many other marginalized communities.

This comment demonizes the police in NY because of the behavior of some somewhere around the world. The police in NY did not hurt people because they were gay, brown, white, or green. The violence was caused because of illegal camping.

[-] 4 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 11 years ago

So you justify violence for breaking park rules? I presume that you would welcome the police shooting you with a tear gas canister the next time you jay walk or litter.

You believe in selective enforcement of the law with violence only against those you hate.

[-] 1 points by NoPartySystem (10) 11 years ago

illegal camping is a farse

this is about squashing a subversive political movement, not maintaining "order." We should all be extremely skeptical about discourses around public health, public safety, order, productivity, or nationalism. These things, which admittedly all sound rational and awesome are dangerous specifically because they are so appealing. In reality, they provide us with justifications for systematic oppression.

The police hurt people because they are preserving a political and economic system that OWS opposes. The police hurt non-normative populations because they challenge the white-straight-male aristocracy.

[-] 1 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 11 years ago

Facts are a stubborn thing. There is simply no excuse for what the police have done here.

What is your explanation for all the militarism and police brutality that we have seen across the entire nation?

[-] 1 points by argheebe (11) 11 years ago

...putting a flower in the "barrel' of their guns might help to change their minds. yeh, right. Get a clue, Glaucon ....the revolution (this time) will be televised.