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Forum Post: UPDATE...Protest of Fox News....CHANGED to Begin Next Monday, the 28TH. Meet At Fox Heaquarters. Somebody In NY Coordinate This.

Posted 8 years ago on Nov. 17, 2011, 11:45 p.m. EST by puff6962 (4052)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

We live in a society where image guides substance. I don't like saying that, but it is true. Therefore, the world is now guided by who controls the narrative. So, I will tell you this now.....The first step in a modern movement is to define and uncover your opponent. By doing so, you have taken over the narrative. The second step in a modern movement is to stay on top of the narrative. This means, in an America with a very short attention span, doing things creative and switching up your targets. Essentially, you have to be interesting and, to some degree, entertaining while making a point.

Occupations always end....and the message usually ends with them.

Protests often lead to violence.....and violence will destroy any goodwill that you have developed.

Marches come and go quickly......your enemy simply waits you out.

And, boring is....well boring. You can't do the same thing over and over again broadcast your message to the world. A modern movement lives and dies by the press. Again, I don't necessarily agree with it, but that's reality.

So, small, interesting, intrusive, provocative, entertaining, and tactical maneuvers will make national television and will percolate through middle America.

Your target is your message.....eg.FOX NEWS, 740 Park Avenue (Koch Residence), Goldman Sachs, Dick Cheney, Eric Cantor, Karl Rove, etc.

Yes, some of this is already occurring, but it needs to become a MAINSTAY of your movement. You should, to paraphrase Voltaire, strive to be interesting above all else. Continuous, low grade, harassment, psy-ops kinda stuff will provoke your opponent into a disproportionate response.....controversial remarks, pepper spray, police brutality, shouting at you, etc.....and this is your objective.

But, I am warning you now, you will never gain momentum until you TAKE DOWN FOX NEWS. You must be removed from their doorsteps. You must force their pundits to say something so absurd that Glenn Beck would retract it. Rupert Murdoch must become the face of the 1%. Relentless, you must be, for until you drive a wedge between the people and the propagandist, the "truth" tends to bend in your favor.

If you protest at the entrances to Fox News (1211 Avenue of the Americas) you will have made a statement you could had not made in a year of occupations.

267 Comments

267 Comments


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[-] 10 points by Bone75 (13) from Lumberton, MS 8 years ago

Fox News is the Republican Party's propaganda machine. As a matter of fact, ALL mass media is controlled by the 1%. Thank God for the internet!!!

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

No, FOX NEWS is different. It is the crown jewel of the neocons, the theocons, and the religious right. It is their temple and their megaphone at the same time.

Protest it, force it to face protesters directly, and you will be on televisions across the world with a more defined message.

We Stand For Truth.

[-] 2 points by paulg4 (82) 8 years ago

Agreed! But OWS shouldn't stop at Fox! Look at all the other networks out there with all that FREE LIVE air time..Like the morning shows all three are national. oOut in the open with the crowds behind, thouse are missed opertunities!

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Thank God for protestors who can blockade the entrances to Fox News.....1211 Avenue of the Americas.....on MONDAY.

BE THERE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[-] 1 points by KnaveDave (357) 8 years ago

If you blockade the entrance to FOX news, all you do is prove to every one of their listeners that they are right. You illegally block their workers from access to their jobs. You starve their families as the Holidays approach. There are ALL KINDS OF WAYS Fox will spin that against the movement.

So, avoid blockades, and stay with surrounding FOX, protesting them, making them uncomfortable, but don't play into their hands by becoming the kind or rabble they say the people of this movement are. Get some marines and others to dress in uniform and protest FOX -- people their movement respects and get OTHER networks to show your group peacefully protesting outside of FOX's H.Q. with the ex-military folk holding signs. THAT will grate on them. Think of what FOX viewer would LIKE that is on the side of your movement. That will be sand between the teeth of FOX commentators.

--Knave Dave http://TheGreatRecession.info/blog

[-] -1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

I feel like I'm farting in the wind.....again.

[-] 1 points by JonValle (133) 8 years ago

He has a point though.

We could block the entrance to the building, but the mere fact of our presence might be enough. We need to make those that decide to take it upon themselves to deface the good that we are trying to accomplish by making them realize, hey, we see you and we know what you're doing and we aren't going to stand for it anymore.

If people see us protesting Fox news, someone might wonder why (god who knows who would think like that but whatever) and decide to check in on it. Therefore no longer supporting the garbage they spew.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Yes. Thanks to all those who showed up today. The number of protesters needs to grow day by day.

Again, the key to movements in America is to control the narrative. This is the next step in the narrative.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Yes, but what if nobody is viewing the same, one in a trillion web, selections. Part of a mass movement is to have the mass on the same page.

I can remember going to school and asking if anybody had seem this or that on television last night and people actually saying, "yes."

The web has done some magical things, but it has made some things very difficult. What "goes viral" is visual and it is very difficult to project complicated ideas with images of a cat shadow boxing in its sleep.

[Removed]

[+] -6 points by 99watching (15) 8 years ago

That's good!!

Like typical thug Marxists, all speech not in boot-clicking lock step with Marxism must be silenced since Marxists know the OWS followers are generally easily led dolts & would be swayed away from their grip by the obvious logic of the truth.

Always remember: Marxists/Communists/Statists must lie to you & I since the truth about Marxism/Communism/Statism is so hideous. This is why there is NO free press in the "Workers' Paradises" of Cuba, North Korea, Vietnam, China, & Soviet Union. Places SO wonderful you are shot or worse if you try to leave.

OWS wants to bring those "Paradises" here. 1st Step: Shut down Fox News.

[-] 8 points by powertothepeople (1264) 8 years ago

QUOTE 99watching: "Marxists/Communists/Statists must lie to you"

Fox is the epitome of Marxism/Communism/Statism then.


NEW WORLD COMMUNICATIONS OF TAMPA, INC., versus JANE AKRE Case No. 2D01-529

In February 2003, a Florida Court of Appeals unanimously agreed with an assertion by FOX News that there is no rule against distorting or falsifying the news in the United States.

Fox argued that, under the First Amendment, broadcasters have the right to lie or deliberately distort news reports on public airwaves. Fox attorneys did not dispute Akre's claim that they pressured her to broadcast a false story, they simply maintained that it was their right to do so.

http://baltimorechronicle.com/lyingislegal_apr03.html


[+] -4 points by 99watching (15) 8 years ago

Well, That proves it !!! Everything that Fox broadcasts is fiction.

Oops. Umm. The snippet out of context above doesn't actually say that.

How much of a Leftard does one have to be to think the above proves Fox lies all the time? Answer: A typical Leftard.

[-] 3 points by JProffitt71 (222) from Burlington, VT 8 years ago

Why would it come to a court, why would Fox strive to assert that oddly specific interpretation of the first amendment, if Fox were the indisputable arbiter of truth? Is this truly a trivial happening that in no way reflects on the integrity of an organization? I merely ask.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 8 years ago

You're just mad that FOX got outfoxed by powertothepeople.

[-] 2 points by powertothepeople (1264) 8 years ago

LOL!

You got nothin', that's why you rolled out the puerile insults.

"out of context" doesn't mean what you think it means.

[+] -5 points by 99watching (15) 8 years ago

"out of context" doesn't mean what you think it means.

It is clear to all you are the only genius at OWS !!

[-] 4 points by mikedenis (49) 8 years ago

boycott Wal-Mart

[-] 3 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Now that is the one plausible boycott that I think most Americans would agree upon.

Wal-mart is CHINA DIRECT. They have blatantly given our most untrustworthy trading partner the most efficient distribution system the world has ever known.

It is capitalism at it's worst. Wal-mart destroys cities, small and large, and the money they harvest is not kept local, but instead ends up on a stock ticker.

It treats its employees like crap and makes no bones about it.

Wal-mart and CHINA DIRECT is doing to America what everyone has witnessed when one of these stores comes into a small town.

[-] 2 points by badconduct (550) 8 years ago

I have for many many years now. Only once in a blue moon, when I find myself there with someone else do I occasionally pick something up. Mainly groceries.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

But, who would go to Bentonville, Arkansas? Honestly, I would be afraid to. Walmart owns the town and it's a little spooky in that part of the world.

[-] 4 points by ConcernedAmerican (9) 8 years ago

As this Movement Grows they will be a need for organization with concrete goals. You have to say what you stand for not just what your against. Let those people show up in front of the mayors mansion tell everyone to protest by taking there money out of bank of america dont pay their card or mortgage refuse to work dont buy gas call your local senator representative mayor govenor and inundate with phone calls calling for a reform. This government needs to go back to the people and what they are going to do about it or they will loose there jobs etc... there are so many things that can create an impact if it is an organized effort to focus the attack on these things instead of gathering marching and yelling yes it will get you attention but for how long until there is unification in the same main ideas united u stand divided you fall most people if asked dont even know what they are marching for or have very diffferent ideas on whats going on. I support ows 1000% but now that youve made some noise its time to make an impact!

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Amen.

Get big money out of politics.

Severely restrict lobbying

Adopt Buffett's Fair Trade Bill http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-3899

Provide housing subsidies for underwater borrowers (which will have to someday be repaid)

Provide interest free student loan programs

Give generous scholarships for those who enter math and the science.

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 8 years ago
[-] 2 points by ConcernedAmerican (9) 8 years ago

thanks

[-] 3 points by flang23 (47) 8 years ago

Chant like hell outside their offices. But Fox News is just the most glaringly obvious disinformation network. They are just the beginning.

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Yes, but they are a very big beginning.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

The numbers must keep growing for this to work.

[-] 3 points by professorzed (308) from Hamilton, ON 8 years ago

HI puff.

A few comments to make on that.

First of all, the 'Hackivist' group Anonymous has already promised to take down Fox news as part of 'Operation Foxhunt'. I think the date they set for that didn't quite pan out, but if you wanted to attack Fox news I think this is the way to go.

Secondly, the first Amendment Freedom of speech not only gives OWS the right to camp in a park as a way to protest, but also guarantees the rights of Faux news to blather their reich-wing propaganda over the airwaves, just as it guarantees the right of Larry Flint to publish porn. If you try to prevent anyone from entering the building, YOU will be seen as preventing Fox news from practicing their first Amendment. What a heck of a story that would be for them, and a tremendous boost for their egos.

Thirdly, just about anyone with a notebook computer can make a live feed of themselves. So if you blocked the Faux news blockheads from entering the studio, they would just take their notebooks to the closest Starbucks with Wifi, order themselves a frappuchino, then continue Fox news as part of a livestream with the headlines "FOX NEWS UNDER ATTACK!!"

I don't have a fourth point here, more of an addenum.

I can't get Fox news here in Canada, or Rush Limbaugh, or Sean Hannity, or Anne Coulter, or the rest of these nutbags.

Do you know why? Because Canada has a law against 'knowingly and willingly broadcasting false information over the airwaves." What this means of course is that Fox news KNOWS they are lying.

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

We need such a law.

[-] 3 points by powertothepeople (1264) 8 years ago

What we actually have is the complete opposite: A Federal Court decision protecting Fox News' first amendment right to lie and call it news.


NEW WORLD COMMUNICATIONS OF TAMPA, INC., versus JANE AKRE Case No. 2D01-529

In February 2003, a Florida Court of Appeals unanimously agreed with an assertion by FOX News that there is no rule against distorting or falsifying the news in the United States.

Fox argued that, under the First Amendment, broadcasters have the right to lie or deliberately distort news reports on public airwaves. Fox attorneys did not dispute Akre's claim that they pressured her to broadcast a false story, they simply maintained that it was their right to do so.

http://baltimorechronicle.com/lyingislegal_apr03.html


[-] 1 points by professorzed (308) from Hamilton, ON 8 years ago

Hmm, maybe make some bumper stickers of this, that say something like "Fox News has a license to lie?", with the court case ruling underneath it. Yet again, here they are admitting that they are deliberately lying and distorting the news, but that the first Amendment for some reason gives them the right to do so?

There was a legal battle here, between the Dairy producers and the beverage called 'Soy Milk'. Soy milk is so close in taste to cow milk, that some people use it as a substitute. Dairy farmers petitioned to have the word 'milk' as something legally defined to be the product of an animal. So, 'soy milk' companies had to re-lable their product to 'soy beverage'.

Could something similar be done with 'Fox News'? Perhaps a case could be made that they can't call it 'news' anymore, since absolutely none of it is true.

That might hit them pretty hard, if they are no longer legally allowed to refer to themselves as 'news', because it's not true. (I guess that would also hurt tabloids such as Weekly World News, and their stories on 'Batboy').

If the courts want to uphold that 'News' does not have to be true, it pretty much gives everyone permission to start broadcasting misleading 'mass hysteria' stories such as the Mercury theater 1930s radio broadcast of 'War of the Worlds', and then calling it 'news'.

[-] 2 points by professorzed (308) from Hamilton, ON 8 years ago

Well, you can push for such a law.

How did that song go from Schoolhouse rocks? "I am only a bill, up on capitol hill?"

I understand that Congress is thoroughly corrupt, and that bill might never pass, but it's one way of holding the politician's feet to the fire. Who knows, the Democrats might support such a bill, since Faux news rakes them over the coals, too.

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 8 years ago

I agree with you puff!

[-] 1 points by KnaveDave (357) 8 years ago

You're absolutely right about how a blockade will play into the hands of FOX news. It will galvanize their listeners against the movement by showing that the protestors of OWS don't uphold Fox's First Amendment rights. Be smarter than that. Be CREATIVE.

Blockades are always bad. All the people held up in traffic jams will start to hate you as they drive by because you wrecked their day just to exercise your free speech. Parents whose children cannot get to school or who cannot pick up their children from school will become furious. Blockades will assure that people who need to get to work become your enemy in greater numbers. Avoid blockades like the plague.

--Knave Dave http://TheGreatRecession.info/blog

[-] 1 points by professorzed (308) from Hamilton, ON 8 years ago

The best thing you can do to affect Fox news, is do a satire of them. MOX news.

Just imitate and exaggerate their 'news' style, get some outrageous comedians/ actors to fill in for well known Fox celebrities, and broadcast it on YouTube. I must have seen hundreds of satirical takes on the news, it's probably the easiest thing to satire. With characters such as Glenn 'the crybaby' Beck, and (M)Anne Coulter, the satire practically writes itself.

There must be hundreds of thousands of unemployed or underemployed actors, comedians, and writers in New York City.

[-] 1 points by KnaveDave (357) 8 years ago

Indeed, they are practically a satire of themselves. It is a mockery that they call something that is 70% commentary (like Shep the dog) mixed with news in order to have something to comment on ... "news." They are a commentary channel with news mixed in. It used to be that networks drew a sharp distinction between news and commentary. When Cronkite of Schaeffer added commentary to the news, it was always at the very end, and it was completely clear to everyone that they had shifted from newscaster to giving their personal commentary. They were professional journalists. These nuts on FOX have no idea what a journalist even is. I, for example on my own web site, am well aware that I am strictly a commentator, not a newscaster. I don't try to bill myself as "the news." I do put news on the site in the sidebar, but that keeps it clear what is news and what is commentary.

I'd be a howl to do a weekly response to FOX in just the manner you discuss as MOX news. I love the idea.

--David Haggith http://TheGreatRecession.info/blog

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Na, call it Fux Noise.

[-] 1 points by professorzed (308) from Hamilton, ON 8 years ago

Or whatever you like.

I saw something funny on Occupy Toronto. There were puppets giving the news. It was the actual truth of what was happening, but it was being told by hand puppets.

Ever see the British TV show 'Spitting Image'?

That was a pretty brilliant satire where a cartoonist made some puppets that looked remarkably like the people he was making fun of. Ronald Reagan, Gorbachev, even the Queen of England.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCQa4iFmkW4&feature=related

I think a 'spitting image' version of 'Fux Noise', with puppets and actors doing the voices, would be a perfect send up of Fox news. You'd already have an inbuilt audience as well as star/ celebrity power.

I think most if not all of the original cast, crew and producers would jump at the chance to make a 'spitting image' Fox news parody. Of course, there is no reason why it all couldn't be done in the USA either.

I mean, all the newscasters/ liecasters on Faux news are pretty much puppets anyways. It seems some of them have rather fragile egos too.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

You have to make all of the female puppets really slutty (and all of the males really nutty).

[-] 1 points by professorzed (308) from Hamilton, ON 8 years ago

Well, have you seen the Spittiing image puppets? They are hideous caricatures, but recognizable.

Are you saying I should make the puppets? Eh, I guess I could.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

You know, during the Reagan administration, there was a puppet show that lampooned politicians and celebrities. Can't remember what it was called.

[-] 1 points by debndan (1145) 8 years ago

Spitting Image, they also did that music video for genisis

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Oh ya, I remember that video. Those things gave me nightmares.....like that commercial where the guy wakes up next to a really ugly lady and tries to sneak out of the house only to see family pictures of himself with that lady and their kids. AHHHHHHHHH!

[-] 0 points by Jimboiam (812) 8 years ago

Just curious, can you be specific about some lie that is told on Fox News? i don't watch it myself, but spin is not lying, neither is focusing on anti liberal news, and more than MSNBC is lying by focusing on anti conservative news.

[-] 1 points by professorzed (308) from Hamilton, ON 8 years ago

Jimbo, there are many lies told on Fox news, here is a recent one.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/o-m-g-it-really-is-a-fake-wall-street-protest-impo/

I think a lot of the corporate media lies, but in the case of Fox news it isn't always just a blatant lie. Sometimes, the anchor persons are forming an opinion for you.

For example, when they did choose to cover OWS, they didn't just give you the facts of what was happening and let you make your own conclusion, they didn't tell you anything except their negative opinion of what they thought of the protestors.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

If you are going to poison an animal, you don't make the poison taste bad. Instead, you mix your toxic brew with something that tastes normal....palatable.

Fox news is ingenious at mixing a very toxic narrative with what appears to be a typical news dialogue. These people are not stupid.....in fact they are frighteningly clever.

And, there is nothing more palatable to a man than saying to him what he wishes to be true.....even when it is not. Demosthenes said it best, "Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true."

Fox News is selling a full meal. The appetizer is anger, frustration, and fear. The main course is propaganda. And, the dessert is this feeling of community that occurs when people who hold dark thoughts find a kindred soul.

[-] 1 points by professorzed (308) from Hamilton, ON 8 years ago

I came across a website called "Fox News lies". It was fascinating to see all the lies that were being put forth as 'truth'. Now I know where the batshit crazy idea that Canada has 'Death panels' in it's single-payer health care system comes from.

I had another idea besides a puppet show. It involves a money investment, unfortunately.

Offer a substantial cash prize (i.e. $50,000 to $1million). The larger the cash prize, the more interest it will attract. (or call it a 'bounty'). The money is payable to ANYONE that can PROVE the specific lies told on 'Fox News Lies' are true.

Canada has 'Death panels'? PROVE IT, and get one million dollars.

You'd have to raise the money for the prize, but there are a lot of celebrities that support the Occupy movement. (George Takei, Mike Myers, etc.) that might chip in.

Hold benefit concerts, bake sales, etc. to raise the money. Tell the contributors that the money will be donated to a charity of their choice when Fox News is taken off the air.

Set up a special escrow account in a credit union, keep records of the cash donors, try to make it tax deductible, etc. Perhaps set it up as a charity to improve the mental health of Americans.

Use some of the money collected to advertise the prize on billboards, magazines, etc.

Set up the cash prize, and foxnewslies.com will likely help you with some of the footwork.

[-] 0 points by Jimboiam (812) 8 years ago

1st Amendment does not give people the right to participate in civil disobedience. It allows you to say whatever you want, not to camp in a park against the law.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

How do you work in that whole redress of grievances thing?

[-] 1 points by professorzed (308) from Hamilton, ON 8 years ago

All of the progressive legislation in the history of the United States has been brought about by civil disobedience. The Boston Tea Party itself, while not legal, was an act of protest and disobedience.

The labour movement of the 1880s, which gave YOU the eight hour day and the weekend (You're welcome), was won by protestors and civil disobedience.

The Suffragette movement, which gave women the right to vote, was brought about by protestors and civil disobedience.

The civil rights movement in the 1960s, to fight for equal rights for African-Americans, was a protest movement utilizing civil disobedience.

If 'Freedom of speech' had been so narrowly interpreted to mean "You can say what you like to your friends, since everyone else will ignore you." then none of these things would have happened. Doesn't EVERYONE have that 'right'? You could say what you liked in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia too, so long as you didn't try to go against the system.

Seventy percent of communication is non-verbal. When you make a stand somewhere and say you won't be moved, you are communicating something. You are saying something, even if you don't use words. That is still communication. That is still freedom of speech.

The First Amendment gives people the right to freedom of speech, but also freedom of expression. When you start putting restrictions and conditions on it, you render it useless.

The first Amendment does not mean that the government will permit you to say what you like, but only within the special confines of a barbed-wire enclosed 'Free speech zone', without the use of a megaphone, and out of earshot of everyone else.

It also contains the right to petition the government with a list of grievances.

Rosa Parks was saying something when without uttering a word, she sat in the 'Whites only' section of the city bus. She didn't need to verbally explain herself, just willfully disobey an unjust law. That was her act of protest.

Do you think any of the white ruling class would have listened to Rosa Parks if she started verbally complaining about the fact that there was a 'whites only' section on the bus? No they wouldn't. They would have just chuckled and tuned her out.

Once Rosa Parks OCCUPIED that seat on the bus though, people started paying attention. Yes, she broke the law, but it was an unjust law. She brought attention to the unjust law by breaking it.

it was once against the law to hide jews in your attic instead of reporting them to the Gestapo as well.

The by-laws against sleeping in public are the last straw in draconian anti-poverty laws that are making being poor and being homeless a crime. By camping in a park, we are saying "Being poor or homeless is not a crime." Our voices were ignored for thirty years, so now we must speak with our physical presence.

[-] 1 points by KnaveDave (357) 8 years ago

Exactly! The First Amendment also doesn't give people the right to break park or city rules, so long as those rules are not imposed just to limit free speech just to stop Occupy Wall Street, which would be discriminatory. If the movement becomes anarchist, it will be completely marginalized, for VERY FEW people in our society want anarchy. People want safety for their children, the ability to get to and from work, the right to be paid fairly for their jobs. Making them feel those things are threatened will not gain the movement any support. Fortunately, most protest groups have avoided such tactics, but everyone needs to get the word out about the importance of avoiding such tactics if you really want to put political pressure on politician to rectify the problems of Wall Street.

--Knave Dave http://TheGreatRecession.info/blog

[-] 3 points by nucleus (3291) 8 years ago

Idiots have TV.

Thinking people have Democracy Now, ProPublica, BBC, Al Jazeera, BBC, Alternet, Disinformation, AdBusters, RT News and other internet media sources, both public and independent as well as a healthy dose of skepticism.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Yes, but your movement depends upon neutralizing those who rely upon Fox News and Rush Limbaugh for their ideological underpinnings and propaganda. The easiest way to do that is to force both Fox News and Rush Limbaugh into direct confrontations where their message is placed under scrutiny and they make the mistake of overstepping in their counterattacks to your movement.

The more obscenely they attack you, particularly if you all take showers and dress well, the more powerful you will become.

Please see the logic of this. THE FOX PROTEST IS SET FOR MONDAY.

[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 8 years ago

Our movement does not depend in any way shape or form on FOX or the rest of the corporate media.

The dichotomy between their lies and reality will further help the movement, and I believe it already has. When what you see on the TV is not what you see outside your window, or in your family and community, there is a pretty good chance that you will recognize the truth.

Good luck with the FOX protest!

[-] 2 points by misterioso (86) 8 years ago

Im not so sure this is a good Idea. We beat fox news not by shutting them down for 1 day, but by winning the argument and gaining higher approval ratings from the public at large . How do we win the argument ? lets go after the politicians that take bribes from wall street see my post - ccupywallst.org/forum/occupy-chuck-schumer/

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Aggressive Nonviolence means forcing your opponent to show his true colors....to shame him with his own actions.

The protest of FOX NEWS should continue until you become such a thorn in their side that the narrative switches to their reaction to you.

If you are peacefully blocking the doors and entrances, if you are chanting "TELL THE TRUTH," then other media outlets from around the world are going to pick up on the storyline of: "Does FOX NEWS lie?"

Media outlets try to avoid this question, because it positions them into an antagonistic relationship with another news organization and they're afraid that they will lose viewers.

But, American media loves a story that just keeps on giving and your continued pestering of Rupert Murdoch's crown jewel and any quick, or disproportionate, police response to you will PAINT FOX NEWS as the tool of the powerful.

They will be the powerful lion driven into the corner by the screech of a mouse. When they respond, with inflammatory rhetoric or with excessive security, you will have images that will go viral in a heartbeat.

You must define your movement by what it opposes.....Big money in politics, Wall Street bankrobbers, and LIES IN THE MEDIA.

Your targets define your message and it is your time to confront the biggest source of lies in American history, FOX NEWS.

[-] 2 points by KnaveDave (357) 8 years ago

If you block the doors or driveways of FOX, you will only show that you respect NO ONE's rights but you own. You will discredit your own claims that you have First Amendment rights by denying FOX the right to exercise theirs.

--Knave Dave http://TheGreatRecession.info/blog

[-] 1 points by professorzed (308) from Hamilton, ON 8 years ago

Hmn, I don't think so puff.

You are either on one side or the other with FOX news. You know they are lying, or you think they are telling the truth. No amount of chanting is going to make them break down and start telling the truth.

For one thing, 'What is truth?'

That was the cryptic question Pontius Pilate asked of Jesus Christ when he presided over his trial. Was the Roman Emperor really a descendant of the god Jupiter? Is that true? Was Jesus himself the son of the hebrew God Yahweh? Is that true? Could Jesus really heal the sick and walk on water, but just couldn't prove it in his trial? Remember, if Jesus could have proven his powers, he wouldn't have been crucified. He couldn't, or chose not to, and was crucified. Yet, millions accept his word as truth today.

How much of what we know and accept as fact today, will be proven as untrue tomorrow?

According to Einstein's theory of special relativity, it is impossible to travel faster than the speed of light. Before the invention of the super sonic jet, it was once thought that it was impossible to travel faster than the speed of sound. Yet today, we know that is not true.

FOX news basically only serves the U.S. population. No one in other countries watches it, or believes it. It's all very clear to people in other countries that Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Anne Coulter, Tele-evangelists, etc. are spreading lies and disinformation.

All news agencies lie to an extent, even in other countries. It's not really possible to tell the whole truth in a news segment, since there is always a MEDIA BIAS when you cover a story. There are always at least two sides to every story, so the news agency picks one side.

I would instead suggest a different method, such as T-shirts with the words "Fox News' on them, and the word "LIES" in red letters like spray paint over the word news.

Everyone that wears such a T-shirt becomes a walking billboard, as well as a walking target for right-wingers with a chip on their shoulder.

Then again, there is a saying "The only bad press is no press." The more you talk about them, mention them, fight against them, the stronger they get.

Then again, maybe T-shirts that say 'MOX news', and an actual parody of Fox news done by some local actors and writers.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

What doesn't destroy me defines me.

I have no desire tho shut down Fox News. I have EVERY desire to use the protest/confrontation of Fox news as a means of consolidating and defining this movement.

[-] 1 points by JProffitt71 (222) from Burlington, VT 8 years ago

Perhaps the happy medium, taking professorzed's comment into account, is to set up camp around Fox News and pester them passively. Avoid physically blocking their entry, as that would be playing right into their "OWS-communazeralism wants to oppress us" narrative; that first amendment can swing both ways. However I am sure there are ways you can still elicit wonderfully antagonistic responses from them and draw attention to their criminally distorted output.

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Perhaps you're right. Setting up camp so that entry/exit is allowed, but greeted by protesters would be the best medium.

Please pass this around. I have avoided trying to be specific about these things.....it's been hard enough to get everyone to agree on the target itself.

But, I think that you are right....blocking the entrances could make protesters seem radical, and that is exactly how we cannot be viewed.

[-] 1 points by KnaveDave (357) 8 years ago

Beautiful. Thank you for seeing this.

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 8 years ago

Yes well said. It is about winning the hearts and minds of the American people. It will take time and very well thought out actions. Not these pot shots which are just as likely to backfire.

[-] 2 points by freeows (84) 8 years ago

Fox News = Faux News = Unfair and Unbalanced = UnAmerican. Be ready, you all will be called communists, lol. That is the tactic term they find to go aginst whoever not in agreement with them and make the pbulic fear. Whoever is for choice, is communist. Whoever does not believe in God, is communist. Whoever is for social programs helping the poor, is communist. Whoever advocating taxing on rich, is communist. Whoever against to invade other countries, is communist. Whoever advocating going green, developing electric cars, is communist. Whoever against drilling for oil or going invade for oil, is communist. Whoever is aginst the 1% (aks job creators) is communist. They are just so clueless and tiring...

[-] 2 points by Windsofchange (1044) 8 years ago

Go after Murdoch's other baby--that stupid rag-The New York Post. They have been vicious in their coverage of OWS. Honestly, when I see their front page insulting this movement and the protestors I like to smack them one. They are really getting on my nerves.

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Ya, but you have to get the cameras on you, not the newspapers. The best way to do that is to block ALL the entrances to Fox News. Imagine if NONE of their personalities could make it to the studio on time. Imagine!

[-] 3 points by Windsofchange (1044) 8 years ago

Man, Bill O''Reilly would throw one major hissy fit, not to mention the others. I was going to say something about Glenn Beck, but he is no longer with Fox. He would not doubt call us a bunch of terrorists. Others at Fox would probably say the same about us.

There is one show I watch on Fox and wonder why this guy is on Fox in the first place. That show is Freedom Watch with Judge Napolitano. He had a journalist on his show today who got beaten up by the police at an OWS protest. He was actually concern about police brutality at the OWS protest. This man is very fair. So my hats off to him.

As for the rest, they are so bias against this movement that they can't even contain themselves. WE need educate them as to what this movement is all about.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Monday, spread the news, the blockade of Fox News begins.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

I feel like I'm farting in the wind.

[-] 0 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 8 years ago

Brownshirt tactics.

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

No, aggressive nonviolence.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 8 years ago

Yeah kinda.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Yeah, kinda effective.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by NonParticipant (151) 8 years ago

They can go to another studio and program from there. There is more than one camera in town.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Do you understand that each of their sets are done custom......so, yes, they could move.....but their backdrops would change, they would be up in arms.....AND YOUR POINT WOULD BE MADE.

[-] 0 points by NonParticipant (151) 8 years ago

I'm sure they could go with the flow.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

I don't think that going with the flow is something Hannity or O'Really have in their repertoire.

[-] 1 points by NonParticipant (151) 8 years ago

Just as you are allowed to say what you believe to be true, the Post has the same right to say what they believe to be true. You do not have the monopoly on truth.

[-] 2 points by Windsofchange (1044) 8 years ago

The point is they are not telling the absolute truth. They are on a all out hate-campaign against this movement. We should call them out on their lies and set them straight. If they don't agree with this movement that is fine. But hate and fear mongering should not be tolerated.

[-] 0 points by NonParticipant (151) 8 years ago

OWS is not telling the absolute truth either.

[-] 0 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 8 years ago

Oh please! Stop with the lying! It aint working.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Do you truly believe that the Post believes that what it is driveling is the truth?

Pawn of the oppressor.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

The New York Post should be HACKED just like they are trying to hack all of you.

[-] 2 points by stacii (14) from Glasgow, Scotland 8 years ago

All mainstream news channels are assholes. Look at the BBC over here. 10 people died and 50 or so injured on 5th november in a motorway accident, it got 5mins coverage and then went straight back to finance.

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Yes, I know Wall Street got us into this mess, but that was then. If you want Representatives who will represent your ideals to win in November, then you must defeat the propaganda that will keep the Neocons in control of the House.

Fox news must be discredited by every tactic you can throw at them. NOW!

[-] 2 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 8 years ago

On a given night, Fox News is watched by about 1 in 150 Americans. Why are you so bothered by this niche news outlet that swims against the liberal stream?

[-] 1 points by raines (699) 8 years ago

because they're all for tolerance as long as you agree with them (ows)

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Fox is the most trusted television news network in the country, according to a new poll out Tuesday.

A Public Policy Polling nationwide survey of 1,151 registered voters Jan. 18-19 found that 49 percent of Americans trusted Fox News, 10 percentage points more than any other network.

Thirty-seven percent said they didn’t trust Fox, also the lowest level of distrust that any of the networks recorded.

There was a strong partisan split among those who said they trusted Fox — with 74 percent of Republicans saying they trusted the network, while only 30 percent of Democrats said they did.

CNN was the second-most-trusted network, getting the trust of 39 percent of those polled. Forty-one percent said they didn’t trust CNN.

Each of the three major networks was trusted by less than 40 percent of those surveyed, with NBC ranking highest at 35 percent. Forty-four percent said they did not trust NBC, which was combined with its sister cable station MSNBC.

Thirty-two percent of respondents said they trusted CBS, while 31 percent trusted ABC. Both CBS and ABC were not trusted by 46 percent of those polled. Poll: Fox most trusted name in newsmm 1/27/10

“A generation ago you would have expected Americans to place their trust in the most neutral and unbiased conveyors of news,” said PPP President Dean Debnam in his analysis of the poll. “But the media landscape has really changed, and now they’re turning more toward the outlets that tell them what they want to hear.”

[-] 1 points by simi34103 (14) from Lake Placid, FL 8 years ago

yes! Silence the opposition. There is only one truth, one way. Our way.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

I take it that you are being facetious.

[-] 1 points by nichole (525) 8 years ago

Dress like them, too. I think it would be funny if you showed up in suits, ties, loafers, pumps, etc. Well-scrubbed, well-coifed.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Yes, it's very easy to blend in as a Republican. You dress like Al and Peg Bundy in their Sunday best, talk too loud, laugh at inappropriate humor, and say Praise God and Ronald Reagan a lot.

[-] 1 points by nichole (525) 8 years ago

You could go that route as well. I think you should masquerade as Republicans, just like Fox News masquerades as a legitimate news organization.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

But, you have to make sure you know the secret handshake.

[-] 1 points by nichole (525) 8 years ago

ah shit, you lost me on that one :)

[-] 1 points by jayc231976 (1) from Holtsville, NY 8 years ago

this is a bad idea..... fox has every right to spew as much crap as they want, granted I do not agree with the media, but they have the same rights we do, please do no do this

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 8 years ago

how about we create a fact checking body that we can all agree is non partisan to investigate media claims. I don't think fox lies during its news hours, but during its opinion hours it causes more trouble than it helps to inform. or maybe it should put a disclaimer on the screen when it is saying opinion, rather than fact. no?

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

I don't have the right to slander or libel, do I?

[-] 1 points by Salaam86 (161) from Springfield, IL 8 years ago

FAUX NEWS! Here we come! Lulz Sec!!

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 8 years ago

Haven't seen any updates on this. How'd it go this morning?

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Rescheduled to begin next Monday.

[-] 1 points by powertoothepeople (280) 8 years ago

[Norquist] raised an issue we get all the time which is, 'Well there's nothing stopping you guys from paying higher taxes, just send a check to the government!' And this to me is frankly an absurd position; I don't consider it to be a very serious argument. Government is not a charity and we can't rely on voluntary contributions from people to support the things that government does. And I also said to him, 'Look would you be willing to sign a pledge where you're willing to forgo all the benefits that government provides? Are you willing to sign a pledge that says you don't want the U.S. military to protect you? That you will refuse to contact the police if somebody steals from you? That you will refuse to contact the fire department if your house is on fire? Because that's the equivalent! Why should you get a free ride? Why should you benefit from my willingness to support the government? Let's do it together.' And he said, 'If I don't have to pay any taxes for it, I would forgo all those things!' To which my response was, 'Well there's an easy way to do that, move to Somalia!' And his argument was, 'Somalia doesn't suffer from too little government, it suffers from too much government.' I don't even begin to understand what that means, but again there's only so much you can go into in these conversations.

Regarding Somalia, Norquist said Thursday that the government there doesn't do enough to promote liberty.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Norquist is a fascist. As shown be the emails of Jack Abramoff, he is a power hungry little shit who has, his entire life, looked for the issue that would give him power.

He was handed his issue by Ronald Reagan.....who seeded Norquist's organization.

If you think that Norquist represents good government, then you MUST BELIEVE that America was under the control of Communists from 1939 to 1979. Ironically, during that time, GDP growth AVERAGED 4%......much higher than during any other time.

Additionally, the Clinton years turn the entire premise of lower taxes and deficits on its head. If higher taxes stifle growth, then why did we have the largest peacetime expansion of our economy in history?

Of course, Bush.....and idiots such as yourself.....gave away the momentum of deficit reduction in the form of stupid tax cuts, two unfunded wars, and an unfunded medicare D expansion.

Republicans' final goal is to create such a fiscal crisis that they use the chaos to argue against medicare and social security. They will try to partially privatize it, provide vouchers, cut benefits, raise the age you're eligible, and finally they will say that these programs should be abolished.

Republicans are tearing at the fabric of our society in the hopes that the rich shall be responsible only for themselves. In the end, this will result in a highly unstable and weakened central government and a quasi-failed state. The best current analogy is Mexico and I wish that these Republican nutcases would just move there now and save us all a lot of heartache. The result of quasi-failed states is always violence, oppressive overstepping, and civil war.

Many of you are much younger than I am now, but in your lifetime, you will see a second civil war in this country. Remember that I told you this today. If America were divided geographically by it's Republican and Democratic party citizenry......then the civil war, right now, would seem much more imminent and inevitable.

It will take time, but for right now the question is not one of revolution, it is the question of "whose Revolution."

[-] 1 points by JProffitt71 (222) from Burlington, VT 8 years ago

Update, if you participate in this event, be mindful of allowing entrance into Fox news. If we were to prevent them from making their broadcasts, it would play right into their "OWS wants to oppress America" narrative, and it would be nearly impossible to reason with that. You can still camp around them, and through your own creativity ensure that there is nary a moment of peace for them, wearing them down and drawing attention to their agency. Just make sure you maintain the higher ground, and allow them the ability to stumble on tv.

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Perfect. You may want to make this a Forum Topic so that more people will see it. Thanks for your help.

[-] 1 points by JonathanRoskos (1) 8 years ago

While I agree that the narrative is crucial to the movement. I find this action misguided. Not everyone agrees that Fox News is different from the free press. Don't you risk being condemned as hypocrites for obstructing the same free speech we seek to utilize ourselves? If the absurdities of Glenn Beck are tolerated on Fox News, I can't imagine the pundits could say anything absurd enough to offend their base. It is possible to organize protests in which the protesters do not give in to their violent impulses. It is possible to sustain an occupation until you've won. Puff6962, your argument is illogical.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

You're protesting the lies. You're protesting the propaganda. You're defining your message by defining your enemy's message. And, believe me, Fox News is your enemy.

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 8 years ago

I don't like censorship and that would make us the monster we are fighting. I would not stop you but propaganda is something I do not like either.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

It's not censorship, it's being a pain in the ass....which, in this case, is a very good thing.

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 8 years ago

I do not like propaganda from fox or the ny post

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Then I will see you Monday.

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 8 years ago

This is unlawful and will get people pepper sprayed, billy clubbed, and arrested.

What if there is a fire and protesters are blocking the entrance? What if someone inside the building has a medical emergency? There are reasons these kinds of actions are illegal and it is the police's job to maintain safety which means if you block the entrance to a building they are right to remove you and use force if necessary.

Doesn't anybody know what civil disobedience is any more? This is NOT civil disobedience, it is just breaking the law.

Soon enough something bad is going to happen at one of these ill advised events and ows is going to look idiotic and be despised.

PLEASE learn how to conduct a demonstration properly and within the law so that bystanders or others are not hurt. Look at how unions do it, they don't go around getting their heads busted in. Go read the guidance on the ACLU site about demonstrating. Come on people have some sense and take some responsibility. Keep it safe.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

No, it is aggressive nonviolence.

[-] 0 points by me2 (534) 8 years ago

Blocking entry and exit to a building is not aggressive nonviolence, it is irresponsible obstruction. It is creating a safety hazard. Just like was created at the stock exchange. Tell me what would happen if someone inside had a heart attack. OK maybe they work for Fox News so you would be OK with them not getting emergency medical attention they might need because a bunch of people have taken it upon themselves to block the entrance.

You can picket outside the building without physically blocking entrances and exits and creating other safety hazards. You could use your brains for something other than a billy club target.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

If somebody has a heart attack and ambulance shows up, we'll be glad to let the paramedics through.....unless it's for Sean Hannity.

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 8 years ago

The people who work in the buildings of NYC have a right to enter and exit those buildings unencumbered. The police will ensure that they do.

People have the right to protest and picket outside of those buildings. They do not have the right to enter them and they do not have the right to block others from entering or exiting them.

I see you think it's a funny little joke but this movement needs to respect others' rights. Why don't people seem to understand that OWS needs to ATTRACT many, many more people? Why is it like, this is it, we've got our supporters, now everyone else keep out, if you haven't gotten on board already, we don't want you! What is UP with that?

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Some fights make you weaker, some fights make you stronger......and sometimes you have to break the rules to change them.

That's rather prophetic.

So, Opie, I think that you are the kind of protester that we really need.....if we're trying to get the administration to allow Coke machines in the high school cafeteria.

Get real, Opie. We know you're a troll on this page.

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 8 years ago

You don't even know what civil disobedience is. You think it is just break any old law because you have a gripe. This is how dumbed down America has become.

I am perfectly fine with breaking an unjust law for the purpose of demonstrating why it is necessary to have it overturned. That ain't what's happening here.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Sorry, I was reading all of the wikipedia stuff about civil disobedience.

Ethics

Some critics argue that the non-aggression principle is unethical because it opposes the initiation of force even when the results of such initiation would be better (though not necessarily for each and every individual involved) than any other course of action. Suppose, for example, that you could save a million lives by killing one innocent person. The non-aggression principle holds that you should not kill that person. However, this leads to a million deaths. While such extreme situations are unlikely, critics argue that milder forms of the same dilemma (for example, the choice between taking away part of a wealthy person's property or allowing a poor person to starve) are common.[citation needed]

One response to this argument by supporters is that the morality of killing one innocent person to save one million lives depends on the context. If someone threatens to kill one million lives unless an innocent person is killed, then it would be immoral to kill that person. However, if the failure to kill an innocent person would lead to millions of deaths because of a virus they carry, this person is initiating force against others, albeit without their knowledge. Furthermore, opponents of NAP must demonstrate why it is preferable for a poor person not to starve at the expense of a wealthy person's property before the argument can be evaluated.[citation needed]

Another response to this argument would be that no one has a positive right to be saved. Some critics see the denial of positive rights as unethical but most libertarians argue that positive rights conflict with the right to self-ownership and self-determination of every individual and would legitimize some form of slavery.[32]

Other critics state that NAP is unethical because it legitimizes non-physical violence, such as mental battering, defamation, and boycotting or discrimination. If a victim thus provoked would turn to physical violence, according to NAP, he would be labeled an aggressor.

Supporters of NAP, however, state that defamation constitutes freedom of speech and the boycotting or discrimination that may follow constitutes other people's freedom to deal with whoever they like. Supporters also state that individuals most of the time voluntarily engage in situations that may cause mental battering. Some supporters point out that mental battering, when it cannot be avoided, comes down to unauthorized physical overload of the senses (i.e. eardrum and retina) and NAP does apply. [edit] Innocent persons problem

Some critics use the example of the trolley problem to invalidate NAP. In case of the runaway trolley, headed for five victims tied to the track, NAP does not allow a trolley passenger to flip the switch that diverts the trolley to a different track if there is a person tied to that track. That person would have been unharmed if nothing was done, therefore by flipping the switch NAP is violated. Another example often cited by critics is human shields.

Some supporters argue that no one initiates force if their only option for self-defense is to use force against a greater number of people as long as they were not responsible for being in the position they are in. Murray Rothbard's and Walter Block's formulations of NAP avoid these objections by either specifying that the NAP applies only to a civilized context (and not 'lifeboat situations') or that it applies only to legal rights (as opposed to general morality). Thus a starving man may, in consonance with general morality, break into a hunting cabin and steal food, but nevertheless he is aggressing, i.e. violating the NAP, and (by most rectification theories) should pay compensation.[33] Critics argue that the legal rights approach might allow people who can afford to pay a sufficiently large amount of compensation to get away with murder. They point out that local law, though based on NAP, may vary from proportional compensation to capital punishment to no compensation at all.[30]

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 8 years ago

Christ almighty you're control veeing Wikipedia at me? You're no fun at all.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

I think that the blockade can go forward. If the lies would stop just for a day, that would be enough for me. The Simpsons are on, so can you please not make me thinks so much?

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Don't you think that you're going a little overboard with your concerns for the convenience of those who work at Fox.

You like following the rules don't you...you almost sound like a Republican. What are you even doing on this forum?

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 8 years ago

What a ridiculous comment. You can play cavalier with public safety all you want, you know what I was in this city on 9/11 and I saw shit go down. I was here for the blackout. Hell I was here during the FIRST WTC bombing. In NYC we all need to live together and there's a certain respect to be maintained among us all. I am not concerned about the people who work in THAT building I'm concerned about ANY building. You ever been stuck in a building you can't get out of? Or stuck on the street in a mob that you're not part of, just because you were trying to get to where you're going? I'm talking about acting responsibly and in doing so earning people's respect for OWS vs creating a public safety hazard and turning more and more people away from the movement due to its irresponsible actions.

I support the goals of OWS - but these actions I do not support. That does not make me a "republican" and it does not invalidate my right to speak out against the irresponsibility and rash actions that threaten to kill this movement which I care about.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

You like following the rules, don't you.....Thank you Sir may I have another. Thank you Sir may I have another. Thank you Sire may I have another.

You would have never been allowed in Delta House.

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 8 years ago

Oh I see you're just taunting me for the hell of it. OK well you got a good rant out of me so thanks.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

No, I'm telling you that when you're faced with an unwinnable situation, then you have to change the game.

You belong to a movement that cannot decide even where to put the portapotties. Your only hope of defining your message is to define your enemy's message.....and, your most direct and vocal enemy is FOX NEWS.

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 8 years ago

Yes and going an acting like a bunch of imbiciles in front of fox news ... as opposed to acting like someone who deserves to be taken seriously, someone who has dignity and strength in the face of adversity, which would set an example for others to follow... nah....

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Do you want to be a teacher's pet or do you want to change the world? Serious question. And quit making me think.

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 8 years ago

I want more people to want to participate in this movement. I believe that is what will change the world - if many, many more people see something good, a better way, and want to be a part of it.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Right now, many see Fox News as an unsurmountable monolith. Their entire veil of invincibility must be broken. There is no other thing that you could do that would send such a direct and clear message to the rest of the world.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

"This is unlawful and will get people pepper sprayed, billy clubbed, and arrested."

GOOD. What works in practice cannot be wrong in theory.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.....

These are the words of Dark Helmet from the movie, "Spaceballs." Perhaps you should watch it.

[-] 0 points by me2 (534) 8 years ago

Are you suggesting that the unions, who as I mentioned do not generally make it a practice of getting their heads bashed in, are ineffective in driving their agendas toward beneficial results? I think most would agree that their tactics have proven to be very effective.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Do you think that Unions have been able to match the forces against them? Have Unions been able to protect worker's rights in this country? Have Unions been effective against the exporting of our manufacturing base?

NO. Unions have failed to take the Neoconservatives and Fox news head on and we have all paid an extremely high price for their timidity.

Right to work states have been China Junior in the American economy and have been used to break the back of everything labor fought for for over 100 years. Unions used to have balls. They used to encourage average workers to keep up with the issues that effect them.

But, somewhere along the way, those average workers became gradually poisoned by a very seductive brand of scapegoating and propaganda.

Go to any home construction site and you will either hear Mexican music or Rush Limbaugh. Ask the line worker what he watches when he goes home at night and it will likely be Fux News.

Frustration, anger, and fear are very powerful drugs when dealt out in the right quantity. And lies are most believable when they are intermixed with the truth.

Fox News must be confronted at it's doorsteps. Thank you all for your messages of support.

[-] -1 points by raines (699) 8 years ago

goons are effective? So were the brownshirts.

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 8 years ago

I think you're missing my point - see above re: "PLEASE learn how to conduct a demonstration properly and within the law so that bystanders or others are not hurt. Look at how unions do it, they don't go around getting their heads busted in. "

[-] -1 points by raines (699) 8 years ago

No unions goons don't ge their heads busted, they do that to other people.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Union goons bash heads because they don't allow themselves to get pepper sprayed. Now that is a good thing in certain situations......but not for today's beginning of the protests of Fox news.

[-] -1 points by raines (699) 8 years ago

It's still violence.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

You need to read about the Gilded Age or read, "The Jungle."

When violence is threatened, there will result a counterforce. Children were once beaten for falling asleep on the job. Of course, they walked to work at 4:30 am with their parents.....and were carried home asleep by their parents.....but that was a different age.

You see, history does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme. The more violent the police and establishment react against a peaceful movement, the more shame they bring upon themselves.

However, if no progress is achieved with nonviolence, the movement will segment into factions using different tactics including violence.

This has been the pattern since antiquity.....and it will be the pattern for unions (what remains of them), anti-illegal immigration groups, Prolife groups, and Occupy Wall Street.

[-] 1 points by Windsofchange (1044) 8 years ago

Sorry, I can't be there tomorrow. I do understand the outrage at Fox news and how they go out of their way to discredit this movement. I think protesting in front of their building is a good idea, but I am not sure about the whole blocking the Fox people from entering the building. I was amused by the idea the other day, but as I thought more about it I am afraid that this will only add more fuel to the fire. Don't give Fox any ammo to use against this movement because they will not hesitate.

Let me tell you, I am on many other forums where there are many people down on this movement (a lot of Fox sheeple, Republicans and people who say they are the 99%-but we don represent them). The stuff they say about us is very brutal. I am constantly defending this movement and education others about it. My suggestion besides the protest outside Fox News Corp. is for OWS representatives to go on a show like Keith Obermann who has been more friendly to this movement and directly challenge Fox on every lie they put out against us. Send that video to them and a thorough letter about what this movement is really about and what it is not about. Add clips of all the brutality that the OWS protestors has suffered where it wasn't warranted to counteract the lie that we are all violent and deserve police brutality. (BTW, we need to keep documenting everything. A camera must go wherever the protestors go so nothing is missed.

We need to step it up. I came across this article and all I can say is this HAS to be done. http://rt.com/news/occupy-wall-street-arrests-media-915/ Yes, let's make a channel like CNN (but for this movement). They need to know that we are REAL people because many have been brainwashed and look at us all like a bunch of spoiled brats who feel so entitled.

There has to be a whole series of things done to get the word out about what this movement is about. The news channels keep telling people that we don't even know what we stand for, or that we are envious of the wealth of the 1%. FOX news is on day and night spouting their hatred and propaganda in regards to OWS. We only get minutes in the news, so right there is an unfair advantage they have over us. We need to take hold of the air waves and get our message out and challenge Fox and any other bias media outlet on the lies they have set forth against us.

Once again, I wish you and the other protestors all the best tomorrow. We need to take things to the next level.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Some fights make you weaker, some make you stronger.

Opposition to Fox News, in all forms, will make you stronger. It will make them attack you more vehemently and this will solidify many moderates behind your cause.

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[-] 1 points by OneVoice (153) 8 years ago

First off, Fox "News" is an entertainment program. I watched a program called Five today and the intellectual journalists must have taken the day off. There was this beautiful dark haired girl in a hot red dress and she had sparkled eye make up. This girl is lucky she was born Hot because she would be pulling unemployment benefits. Anyway, don't let Fox Entertainment waste your energy. Stay focused on the target and don't pay attention to the nipp'n little dog.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Look, the reason they get hotties to read the drivel at Fox news is because it is pornography. Their news is like one of those porn movies that is meant to follow the storyline of some regular movie.....only with porn. They should, in fact, call their network Fux Screws because it is just a parody of the truth.

The Nazis had, "Axis Sally," and Fox news uses these very appealing young ladies to keep horny old dudes glued to the television. The problem is that it works.

The best form of propaganda is that which is entertaining. It has long been known that the easiest way to shut down a rational mind is to make it angry, frustrated, or undersexed. Fox news is just sticking to a formula that has been around for 10,000 years.

[-] 1 points by stuartchase (861) 8 years ago

Fox News is not the enemy, these guys are:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-lord-of-the-dirty-fucks/

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 8 years ago

The real enemy is congress. They are the enablers and they make the rules.

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

No, they are the puppets. The real evil lies with the puppet masters.....Big Money, Corporate Money, Lobbyists, Nutcase Billionaires, Conservative Talk Radio, Fox News, The Heritage Foundation......start making the list.

[-] 2 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 8 years ago

Congress is the ones that swore the oath to represent the people. They ALLOWED their vote to be sold to the highest bidder. They don't have to accept the bribes! They choose to. Big Money, Corporate Money, Lobbyists, etc. will always try to influence the legislators - but congress is the one's that put their hand on the Bible. They should be above that. They should put country first; since they're supposed to run it. They may be puppets, but that's NOT how our government is meant to work.

When the representative body have lost the confidence of their constituents, when they have notoriously made sale of their most valuable rights, when they have assumed to themselves powers which the people never put into their hands, then indeed their continuing in office becomes dangerous to the State, and calls for an exercise of the power of dissolution. Thomas Jefferson

Support a Direct Democracy http://www.osixs.org/Rev2_menu_commonsense.aspx

Cheers

[-] 5 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Take away the puppet masters and Pinocchio will get to be a real person.

If you want a government of the people, then you have to defeat all of the forces that make this a government of the few.

[+] -4 points by brettdecker (68) 8 years ago

The only "Nutcase" is you puffnshit.

[-] 3 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Sticks and stoners.

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

International corporations no longer hold any allegiance to any one country. They have become quasi-national entities able to play one country against another......much like the Roman Catholic Church did for a thousand years.....and somehow, this must end.

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 8 years ago

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

[-] 1 points by stuartchase (861) 8 years ago

It ends by boycotting bastards like toshiba. Please go to this link:

http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/toshiba-is-raping-the-poor/

Tell others about it, and do everything in your power to stop Toshiba!

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Boycotts never work.

[-] 1 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 8 years ago

Tell that to the Birmingham Bus Company! The Bus Boycott made it possible for blacks to sit in the front of the Bus, and jump started the Civil rights movement. I suppose Rosa Parks never existed either.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Yes, but that was a local monopoly......Go protest Toshiba and all people will do is buy Sony.

[-] 1 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 8 years ago

That's true. But if you Boycott BofA people will move their money to a Credit Union and get a better deal. The only place that boycotts don't work is in the minds of those who want to discourage one.

[-] 1 points by stuartchase (861) 8 years ago

Well, then we will just occupy the shit out of Toshiba, and UPS who provides cover for Toshiba.

[-] 1 points by unimportant (716) 8 years ago

Why bring any attention to these idiots?

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

It keeps them off other pages....so that others can get things done.

[-] 1 points by owslp (1) 8 years ago

I agree. Fox has demagogued OWS but more importantly they have demagogued the healthcare bill, the debt ceiling debate, and so on . . . They lie.

I think we need a march on Fox, an occupy protest at their headquarters on 6th avenue and 47th street (ish) in NYC. Who is with me?

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Yes. Email/facebook/call everyone you can and get this on the docket for MONDAY.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Fox news viewers are consistently the most misinformed of all purveyors of news.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/study-fox-news-viewers-most-misinformed-of-all-news-consumers/

[-] -1 points by raines (699) 8 years ago

mediaite is part of the obama machine

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

I think you need to go back to the A A meetings.

[-] -1 points by raines (699) 8 years ago

You must be projecting. I don't drink,..............or do drugs

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

You should.

[-] -1 points by raines (699) 8 years ago

Sorry , I prefer to have a clear head, but you go right ahead an continue your journey in La La land.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

I am watching Hannity right now and all he is talking about is acid and lunatics. Hannity must be brought down. Oh my God, he has Sarah Palin on right now and she looks more like a porn star than LisaAnn. Hannity is now talking about public defecation and Palin is trying to say that OWS is sponsored by the Democrats. She's rambling.....Hannity is spieling about Class Warfare. Palin is saying that Obama inspired the hole thing.

Occupy Fox News.....paint the building red.

[-] 2 points by peaceout10 (69) 8 years ago

What people don't realize is that Hannity is a Junior college drop-out and Palin had "C" average as a communications major.at an easy to get in state school. I am not saying that you have to have a college education to make a difference in this world. Gates and Zuckerman are prime examples of that but, they had skills, brains and were brilliant beyond their years. Listen to Hannity. He repeats the same talking points over and over...like a broken record. Palin is an embarrassment to politics...

Now it's not all about the right wing either...in politics, the left has it's Palin like clones.

On the left side of politics, there are brainless wonders like Nancy Pelosi that makes me cringe every time she rambles an incoherent response. How has she been able to get re-elected year after year? She sometimes makes Sarah Palin sound like a national debate champion.

As far as their politics, she and her cronies on left are just as in bed with corporations as the right. See the 60 minutes segment from a few weeks back when Steve Croft nailed Pelosi and others on their insider trading deals. Pelosi didn't disappoint. She rambled and scrambled her words like the dufus she is.

OWS needs to not only reform Wall Street, but get rid of these corporate owned politicians. We don't need them...they are the root of the problem.

[-] -1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Shame Fox News.....Break The Monolith.....They are the head in "That Hideous Strength" (a C.S. Lewis book). They must be the focus of your efforts in addition to getting the money out of politics.

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[-] 0 points by Jimboiam (812) 8 years ago

You people are sheep.Fox News is not the problem.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/11/20/bloomberg-s-plan-for-world-domination.html Bloomberg's Plan for World Domination

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

OK, we'll add Occupy Bloomberg to the list.

[-] 0 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 8 years ago

You silly people are doing two things here. Ensuring that Fox News gets record viewership that day, and will finish off the last shred of integrity you had left. Even the people of San Fransisco have turned on you. It's time to just stop.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

You define yourself by your targets. The Brooklyn Bridge made no sense. The Oakland port made no sense.

However, Fox News makes a great deal of sense.

Everybody behave yourself there, but let it build day by day. You will see the result you want.

[-] 0 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 8 years ago

So how did it go? Was it worth it?

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

I don't know, time will tell. Hopefully, there will be more people each day.

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[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

I just came across this.....I've been telling Libertarians to move to Mexico. But, perhaps, they should move to Somalia.

Patriotic Millionaires To Grover Norquist: 'Move To Somalia'

WASHINGTON -- Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength, millionaires who want the government to tax them more, met with foremost anti-tax guru Grover Norquist in Washington late Wednesday afternoon. Not surprisingly, they couldn't find common ground -- and ended up debating the state of Somalia.

Patriotic Millionaires, a group of 200-plus people making more than $1 million per year (including actress Edie Falco and economist Nouriel Roubini, among others), believe that America has been good to them and that it is their duty to give back. "[The government] provided a foundation through which we could succeed," writes the group on their website. "Now, we want to do our part to keep that foundation strong so that others can succeed as we have."

In an interview with The Huffington Post, Norquist felt the group only represented liberal interests.

"They were there with a heavy partisan message," Norquist told HuffPost Thursday. "The kinds of arguments I got from these old people weren't interesting when I was 12, the left has not advanced. These guys are Democratic Party hacks."

The six millionaires who met with Norquist on Wednesday were part of a larger effort by the group to convince super committee members and other influential lawmakers that the richest Americans deserve a tax hike, arguing specifically that the highest earners should pay 39.6 percent in taxes, up from the current 35 percent.

The conversation with Norquist, however, which comes just over a week before the congressional super committee must come up with its deficit-slashing plan, turned out to be less a policy discussion than a philosophical debate.

Norquist's belief is that the government's prime goal is to promote liberty.

"I think government, up to a certain point, advances human liberty. Police, a judicial system and an army to prevent people from stealing stuff out of your car, out of your house, knocking you on your head or the Canadians coming over and invading the country," he said. "Those are actually mentioned in the Constitution and in the history of our country as legitimate things for our government to do and they make us freer, not less free. I am for limited government that does a limited number of things competently."

Eric Schoenberg, a member of Patriotic Millionaires and an Adjunct Associate Professor at Columbia Business School met with Norquist in his offices Wednesday. He said that Patriotic feel that liberty only fits within a context and that government has a truly fundamental role in ensuring that people have liberty. Part of the way they do that is by investing in things that benefit the public.

In a phone call directly after the meeting, Schoenberg debriefed HuffPost in full:

[Norquist] raised an issue we get all the time which is, 'Well there's nothing stopping you guys from paying higher taxes, just send a check to the government!' And this to me is frankly an absurd position; I don't consider it to be a very serious argument. Government is not a charity and we can't rely on voluntary contributions from people to support the things that government does. And I also said to him, 'Look would you be willing to sign a pledge where you're willing to forgo all the benefits that government provides? Are you willing to sign a pledge that says you don't want the U.S. military to protect you? That you will refuse to contact the police if somebody steals from you? That you will refuse to contact the fire department if your house is on fire? Because that's the equivalent! Why should you get a free ride? Why should you benefit from my willingness to support the government? Let's do it together.' And he said, 'If I don't have to pay any taxes for it, I would forgo all those things!' To which my response was, 'Well there's an easy way to do that, move to Somalia!' And his argument was, 'Somalia doesn't suffer from too little government, it suffers from too much government.' I don't even begin to understand what that means, but again there's only so much you can go into in these conversations.

Regarding Somalia, Norquist said Thursday that the government there doesn't do enough to promote liberty.

"Somalia has competing governments, they're called clans, and they shoot each other," he said. "They have a series of governments that claim complete control over your property and your life. They have a whole bunch of governments, people acting like governments, people with a legal monopoly on force and they compete with each other. Not compete to provide better services, compete to be in charge of pushing you around."

When the Wednesday meeting adjourned, the groups had found but one point of common ground.

"Our final point of agreement," said Schoenberg, "was the United States is less sucky than other places."

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[-] 0 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 8 years ago

If this happens, Fox News is going to love the publicity.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Yes, and the issue of Fox News' low fidelity to the truth will be displayed.

[-] 0 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 8 years ago

No, Fox News will get some great video of occupiers blocking ordinary people from getting to work or going home to their families. The police will break it up, and occupiers will resist, curse, and maybe attack the police, thus proving once again their contempt for the real 99%.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

So, I take it you won't be there?

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

pass

"i don't have time for a grudge match with every poser in a parka"

http://overthemoo.livejournal.com/359570.html

[-] 0 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 8 years ago

Hey Hey Ho Ho

The Repelican Party has Got To Go!

Hey Hey HoHo

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[-] 0 points by soulmello (0) 8 years ago

Protest Viacom, Time Warner and Comcast too. The mainstream media' s coverage of today's events were disappoiniting. Journalists have been prohibited and arrested for their attempts to report the news. As I watch the footage I see images of excessive police force and brutality. Bloomberg and Kelly set up the barriers and preferred that protestors be on Broadway as opposed to the Stock Exchange. The 1% consist of corrupt goverment officials and media moguls that order the police to protect their finances on Wall Street. There goes your link.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Protest Fox News, the Washington Times, the Wall Street Journal, Rupert Murdoch, the writers of Fox news, the producers......

Your TARGET DEFINES YOUR MESSAGE.

[-] -1 points by steven2002 (363) 8 years ago

Just don't block the doors, storm the lobby. Try and takeover the studio and start broadcasting the OWS message. It's time to fight we need to be heard.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

That might be a little much. I keep getting this picture of Glenn Beck's head on a stick, but he doesn't work there anymore.

[-] -1 points by Capitalist111 (59) 8 years ago

Oh please please please try and do this, Fox News is going to love the Coverage, the spike in coverage, the marketing, the financial windfall for themselves and their advertisers and its gonna sell a lot of t-shirts I had printed.

"I went to Occupy Wall street and all I got was lice"

[-] -1 points by justhefacts (1275) 8 years ago

puffs little white sheet/hat is starting to show.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

I'm just getting started.

[-] -2 points by mediaauditr (-88) 8 years ago

If you think FOX news has anything to do with our financial system in ruin, you should not be allowed to operate machinery. It's our elected officials on both sides, writing laws and choosing which laws to enforce that has bankrupted our country. Do you work for MoveOn.org? Media Matters? Who wrote your post for you? Fool.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Fox news is the propaganda arm of the Republican party and has tried every method possible to cover for the gross mismanagement of the Bush years.

If you can stomach an hour of Hannity and come away with any other impression, then I do feel sorry for you.

[-] -2 points by steven2002 (363) 8 years ago

I think we should take over the fox studios and teach the viewers that they are being lied to. Who is with me

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Maybe you had better stick to the front door, skippy.

[-] -3 points by sanclitorisCA (31) 8 years ago

If you get in my way I will smack the hell out of you. I hope the first one is a hairy leg female. I have had it with your whining childish crap. If the cops dont beat you up,,, I WILL. Just get in my way.

[-] 3 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Sure you will, Skippy.

By the way, your mother knows about that drawer full of tissues.

[+] -4 points by sanclitorisCA (31) 8 years ago

We have had it. You will wish you were pepper sprayed if you get in my way.

[-] 4 points by Lockean (671) from New York, NY 8 years ago

It's really that small huh?

[+] -4 points by sanclitorisCA (31) 8 years ago

I have seen the images on TV of the whiners crying with a little blood on their face and pepper spray in their eyes. "SHAME ON YOU" is the chant from the whiners as they watch. People are getting ready to riot against you cry babies and you will see some blood. Get in my way and find out.

[-] 3 points by anonwolf (279) from West Peoria, IL 8 years ago

A dumbshit right-wing bully, with a tiny cock.. whodathunkit?

[-] -2 points by sanclitorisCA (31) 8 years ago

Block my path and be prepared to block my punch. PROMISE.

[-] 3 points by anonwolf (279) from West Peoria, IL 8 years ago

I'll take you up on that. Who are you? What do you look like? Want to be sure to find you - wouldn't want to let you down.

[-] -2 points by sanclitorisCA (31) 8 years ago

Get in my way and find out. You wont remeber what I look like.

[-] 3 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Oh, you are so menacing. I bet you bark like a dog.

Bark like a dog for me, Skippy, bark like a dog.

Pawn of the oppressor.

[-] -3 points by sanclitorisCA (31) 8 years ago

Ive seen your cry babies on TV. Hope to see them with punch wounds.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

You know, I saw your type in the 70's. Back them you were called a "scab." You were the one who only worried about themselves and you were, and are, at heart a coward.

You're only on this page because you're a very lonely person and this is the closest you can come to a real conversation.

[-] 0 points by sanclitorisCA (31) 8 years ago

If you hear this, "You have two seconds to get out of my face." It is me and that "scab" will be on your nose for several months. I may just walk around saying it so you will know it is me.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Oh, you're so tuff on the internet little skippy.

But, you couldn't stay away could you? Craving any form of human contact, aren't you?

[-] -3 points by betuadollar (-313) 8 years ago

Fox ideology centers entirely around one principle - that money should not be stolen from the the working people of America, of whatever class, to give to a bunch of degenerates. And I really like it.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

I would suggest then that you define liberals as anyone who disagrees with Fox news.

In fact, I would suggest that when you refer to "liberals" that you substitute "those people who want to give my money to niggers" instead.

The average American today gets more out of medicare and social security than he puts in, so you are most likely one of the welfare queens that you decry.

[-] -3 points by betuadollar (-313) 8 years ago

I see "liberals" as the quintessential "air head." Or to put this another way, it seems all airheads ARE self-declared "Liberals." There's a correlation here - lack of common sense equals airhead equals self-described "Liberal."

At one time I had four sets of living great-grandparents. For many years, I had two sets of living grandparents. These people lived through two wars and the Great Depression. They saw REALLY hard times. And as a working class family, I can tell you that Medicare and Social Security were not all that good to them.

And now it's not looking too good for either my parents, my in laws, or even myself. The elderly people of this country cannot afford any more attacks on Medicare or Social Security simply so this government can continue to spend money as it pleases - these are OUR tax dollars.

I max my Social Security payments. And I pay my FICA. And the "niggers" as you call them - whoever they may be because you do not say - can cry me a river...

[-] 3 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

I have paid more in taxes than you will make in a lifetime.....and I'm 48. Opposition to social programs did not occur until they were extended to the minority poor. So, most of the opposition was not to government serving a vital function....medicare, social security, etc....it was to government giving money to black people. Thus, we've established that you and most rightwingers are closet racists who use terms like liberals to code their language and intentions.

But, no matter how much your FICA or Social Security Payments, unless you're a 300 pound diabetic smoker, you will likely outlive what you are paying in.....ergo, you are a welfare queen and my bitch. I am paying a big chunk of my earnings paying for freeloaders such as yourself. Stand under my table, I think I have a carbon credit that I should unload on a little peasant such as yourself.

[-] -3 points by betuadollar (-313) 8 years ago

Ok, so let me get this clear - you are now defining "niggers" as black people, is that correct? And I assume here that you mean African Americans, is that also correct?

It's not the blacks at all that the working class is concerned about, it's illegals and even that is NOT a race thing.

Take your support of non-citizens and shove it up your ass... because working class people are tired of this government using OUR tax dollars to do it. You think you have enough money to be so compassionate, then YOU support them.

You're all a bunch of airheads.

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Dude, go run off a batch.....you're obviously not getting laid.

[-] -3 points by betuadollar (-313) 8 years ago

Wait a minute... you've called a "closet racist," a "welfare queen," a "bitch," a "peasant," and now you're calling me a druggie and a deviant? All because I said that tax dollars should not be stolen from working class people.

And you wonder why we call you "left wingers" airheads?

By the way, I may not always agree, but I LOVE Fox. (And I'm "middle" class :)

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

You don't understand, working class people.....anyone with incomes below 60k.....will net more from the system than they pay in. So, it is criminal and deviant for you to say that you don't want your tax dollars going to help some poor little black kid in head start when you are ALREADY getting more from the system than you put in. That kid probably needs our tax dollars.....little middle class peons like you, particularly if their nutcases, probably don't.

Now, go back to masturbating.

[-] 0 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 8 years ago

Good God -- if you are, as you claim, a doctor, I pity your patients. You have a vicious temperament and contempt for people. You also don't appear to be particularly smart.

[-] 3 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

I'm a surgeon with a background in history, and I am very smart.....and I do have a great deal of contempt for people who take from the system and think that they don't have to give back.

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[-] -1 points by betuadollar (-313) 8 years ago

Haha... you're a pissa; now you're calling me a frequent flyer. Or something to that effect.

Wow, that's a really stupid statement (you're not an attorney are you?).

True, a person with a sub par income may or may not collect more than he or she pays in... theoretically the system compensates... BUT social security pays whether we are black, white. green, or yellow - it's not a prejudicial program. And that's where your argument falls apart - people who contribute are "entitled" to benefit and they do.

Social Security should be optional, but be that as it may,

Over the past 100 years my very large family has contributed a combined multi-TENS of MILLIONS of dollars to this government in many forms and not ONE of us has ever extracted a dime aside from the public pensions that we've contributed to, and social security.

And now you're telling me that some black kid needs Head Start because he doesn't have a mother? What happened to his family? We've done this for four hundred years in America. And telling a black child that they're not capable of doing it on their own is just plain WRONG.

And the fact that you even bring up Head Start is very much an expression of your ignorance on this particular subject.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Your family has inherited a system that allowed them to do so well. That system....infrastructure, defense, education, regulations of commerce and safety, medicare, social security, and medicaid......and a safety net for the poor.....has benefited you to such a degree that you take it for granted and you're not willing to maintain those investments.

Do you think that your family would have done so well if it had emigrated to Mexico rather than the United States?

[-] -1 points by betuadollar (-313) 8 years ago

My family didn't inherit a system; quite the opposite - they discarded all former institutions and they built a system.

I think my ancestors would have done just as well in Mexico; perhaps even better. You don't know your colonial history very well, do ya?

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

I do know that you seem to be creating your own history as you go along in this discussion and that you're taking up the one minute I have to wait before posting this.

Benedicta sis fatuus

[-] -1 points by betuadollar (-313) 8 years ago

Medicaid and education to illegals is draining us in NY. And if we can't afford it here, within just blocks of Wall Street, then we can't afford it anywhere.

And if you think we can, then you should up your portion and leave the rest of us alone.

[-] -3 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 8 years ago

Fox News has about 2.2 million prime time viewers out of a U.S. population of 310 million. So why the obsession with it? Liberals have NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS, CNN, and MSNBC, not to mention NPR, the AP (Yahoo News), Reuters, and almost every daily newspaper in the country. Is it so intolerable to your sensitivities for ONE television network to lean to the right?

[-] 4 points by nucleus (3291) 8 years ago

NBC and MSNBC are owned by GE, which also owns GE Financial (banking) and GE Aviation (military industrial). CNN is the Corporate News Network. AP and Reuters are "content providers" with their own agenda, and their content is editorialized by corporate media for their own purposes. NPR / PBS are government funded with an agenda.

Maybe you should think again about the so-called "liberal" media.

[-] 4 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 8 years ago

The "Liberal Media" is a myth concocted in the mind of Karl Rove, to hide the fact that the 1% own & control the Airwaves. Even MSNBC, which is now called Obama's Election Team, Fired Keith Olbermann because he was too tough on Conservatives.

[-] 0 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 8 years ago

You haven't offered any arguments or evidence to show that the sources I cited aren't liberal. The thing is, I don't think their liberalness makes them evil--just wrong. Sure, I would like to end federal funding for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting because I don't think the government should be in the media and entertainment business. However, all of the other liberal media outlets are welcome, in my book, to keep doing what they do--even the Al Gore network that nobody but Keith Olbermann's parents watches.

It's called free speech.

[-] 2 points by nucleus (3291) 8 years ago

You haven't refuted corporate ownership of media or the conservative and self-serving bias of corporations. Those are facts and they make a strong argument.

[-] 0 points by jay1975 (428) 8 years ago

So who are the conservatives in the corporate media? Brian Williams? Katie Couric? Anderson Cooper? Ed Schultz? Peter Jennings? Diane Sawyer? Scott Pelley? How about Dan Rather? Do you think any of these news anchors are really conservatives?

[-] -1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 8 years ago

how funny. i try to build a project to compete with those slots on the web with everyday people doing the writing and you stalk me and try to discredit me.

[-] 2 points by nucleus (3291) 8 years ago

You are doing it for your own benefit, not to advance the movement. You even said you didn't agree with OWS. Stop being opportunistic with the labor of others.

[-] -1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 8 years ago

so i have to participate under the OWS bran or i'm not allowed to participate. noted


yes, the site has ads. handouts don't make a sustainable business model. i though you had a college education.

[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 8 years ago

I don't know where you come up with that "brand" BS. You don't agree with OWS yet you troll here for writers to build up your own website?

You couldn't be any more disingenuous if you tried. You're just another asshole trying to trademark / t-shirt or somehow capitalize on OWS and keep the profits. Go away already.

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Yes, and those outlets do their best to report the news. They do not engage in a narrative of propaganda that poisons the minds of their viewers. They are embarrassed when something they said turns out to be factually incorrect. They fire newscasters who step over the line of reality. They feel they are serving the public rather than the Republican Party. How can conservatives and libertarians be so apologetic to an institution that has done more than anything since slavery to destabilize this country.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 8 years ago

Comparing the impact of Fox News with slavery brings into stark relief just how badly you have gone over the deep end.

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

How far do you think we are from civil war?

[-] 1 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 8 years ago

It's about 146 years since Appomattox Courthouse, if that's what you're wondering. If you're asking about the future, civil war is not realistically conceivable in the foreseeable future.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

What would happen tomorrow if interest rates jumped 4%?

The Soviet Union's collapse was not recognized even by the most careful of our defense analysts. It took less than six months.

If you can imagine servicing our debt with treasuries at 5% or 11%, then you will understand that our current situation is so dangerous that I bought a farm outside of our metro area just to go to if we fall off a deep end.

The closest analogy would be 1920's Germany with economic collapse and hyperinflation.....and you know what happened next.

[-] 0 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 8 years ago

If interest rates jumped 4% tomorrow, they would still be well below rates in the Carter era. Was there a civil war then?

Look, we can't be too complacent; we have to protect the institutions that have allowed America to weather so many crises. But you are worrying way too much about this.

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

When did our national debt/GDP ratio reach it's lowest level?

1981....The last year of the Carter budgets.

Marginal rates were as high as 95% during the Eisenhower era.....but that is when Conservatism meant paying your bills.

[-] -2 points by raines (699) 8 years ago

abccbsnbcmsnbccnn, politico, ny times , npr, all arms of the obama propaganda machine. npr fired juan williams

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Who has Fox news ever fired for being wrong.....Juan Williams was fired for saying something extremely stupid. If you can't sit on an airplane with someone of Arab decent without being paranoid, then you very much likely have a myopic lens on the world and have very little business reporting it.

[-] 0 points by raines (699) 8 years ago

when I travel, I'm always fear of those darn Swedes.

[-] 2 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Fox news drives the megaphone for the rightwing amplification machine. Your number of viewer estimates are low.....and Fox news is focused upon promoting the forces that tried to destroy your movement even before it got off the groundl

Fox news will continue to create a narrative about OWS and they must be dealt with by protests in the mold of MLK.

It must be harassed and it should be painted RED.

[-] 0 points by Trogdor (65) 8 years ago

What about Jon Stewart or Steven Colbert? they made OWS, or better yet allowed them to look stupid and clueless.

[-] -1 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 8 years ago

Blaming Fox News for OWS's deteriorating reputation isn't going to get you anywhere. There are a growing number of negative stories about OWS even in Fox's many liberal competitors, who desperately wanted OWS to succeed..

And my numbers are not low; they're straight from recent Nielsen ratings.

[-] 1 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 8 years ago

OWS has a deterioating reputation??? Really??? Not from where I'm sitting.

The only place that is true is in the minds of Roger Ailes, and Mayor Bloomburg.

What! You think if you repeat a lie often enough it become true??? Tell your masters that that's not gonna work anymore! OWS is onto your propaganda ploys, and nothing you say or do will stop them from their appointed duties!

Brace yourself Bridget! We are coming after youse!

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

I think that is the rationale for marching on Fox News......highlighting it's propaganda role, it's lies, it's support for the perks of the 1%, it's anti-intellectual bent, it's evil.

There is no more important target.

[-] -1 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 8 years ago

Really, this is an astonishing fixation. It shows a level of tolerance for dissent usually found only in North Korea and some college campuses.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

Because it Lies. It is an affront to democracy.

[+] -4 points by BillyD (6) 8 years ago

This drivel exposes OWS for what they are: far left ideologues who demand conformity on all fronts. They hate freedom.

Fox, by the way, buys most of their news pieces from Reuters and the AP.

[-] 1 points by powertoothepeople (280) 8 years ago

Did they buy Hannity & O'Reilly & those smarmy blow up dolls from Reuters or AP?

They need to get a refund.

[-] 1 points by JPHOENIX (124) 8 years ago

If you think Fox is Fair and Balanced you need to watch Inside Job.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 8 years ago

I loved that movie. He simply trapped these guys in their lies.

[-] 0 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 8 years ago

Yep.