Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Why Those Wacky Anti-Capitalists Might Be On To Something

Posted 2 years ago on June 28, 2012, 11:05 a.m. EST by jart (1145) from New York, NY

59 Comments

59 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 6 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Probably most of the resistence to Marxist political-economic theory comes from people, who know very little about Marxism.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

All the great revolutionaries of the 20th century: Lenin, Trotsky, Che, et al proclaimed the necessity of educating the workers, not indoctrinating them, but teaching them. Thus, in spite of all of the failings of the Cuban revolution, that tiny island country enjoys nearly a 100% literacy rate.

Vade en pace.

[-] 3 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

Wonderful. They can READ about freedom what it would be like to provide a better future for their children.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

That's more than many Americans can do.

[-] 2 points by Shule (2030) 2 years ago

Check out this guy named Jose Rizal. He said the very same thing (and wrote some very good books.)

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Thanks. A Filipino, great, a true international movement may be in the works.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Some words from Albert Einstein from over 60 years ago :

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 4 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

Yeah that is a good article by Einstien.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Thanks for the link.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

You're more than welcome + A very recent and very interesting article and an older piece :

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

And a life expectancy that rivals that of the US and exceeds that of African Americans.

[-] 0 points by secnoot (-14) 2 years ago

They may have a nearly 100% literacy rate, but what are they allowed to read?

[-] 3 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I wouldn't know. I would go to Cuba and find out, but that's a federal crime. Guess we're not so free either.

[-] 0 points by secnoot (-14) 2 years ago

They are not allowed to leave the country at all... or maybe they can in a casket. I guess we ARE more free than they are.

[-] 3 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Cuban citizens can leave the country once they obtain permission from the government. I did not make a comparative statement; simply pointed out that many freedoms are also denied to Americans at the whim of various governments.

[-] 1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Americans can be put on "no fly lists" without any process or even being informed. Now we have TSA and NYPD checking people's personal possessions at subway stations. After all nowhere in the Constitution does it say we have a right to ride a subway. If you don't want to be searched, you're free to not get on the train.

You missed it if you blinked, but there was an incident over the summer where TSA agents entered an Iowa Greyhound bus station and conducted a security sweep. For this they were roundly derided, which is what you'd expect given that many people, much of the time, don't particularly enjoy their encounters with the nation's airport security organization.

Now TSA is expanding its surveillance efforts beyond airports and bus terminals, and onto the nation's highways. The agency held an exercise recently, deploying teams to 5 weigh stations and 2 bus stations in the state. Because if there's one thing Americans have been clamoring for, it's more TSA.

http://www.jaunted.com/story/2011/11/7/111051/743/travel/Oh+Great.+The+TSA+is+Now+Doing+Highway+Stops

[-] 1 points by BushbamneyLies (0) 2 years ago

If you know as much about Cuba as you do New Mexico, "TitusMoans", the knowledge you possess on top of the knowledge you lack about the island 90 miles south of Key West would look like a BB rolling down a four-lane highway.

[-] -1 points by secnoot (-14) 2 years ago

I guess if that is the kind of country you want to live in, a country where you have the ability to read but not the permission to read, what would a law forbidding you to travel there mean when you had no intention of retuning to such an oppressive country as the United States. I don't imagine you would have any trouble emigrating there.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I'm not sure where you get your information. Cubans don't need permission to read; they're encouraged to read, hence, the 100% literacy rate.

Again you are misreading my comments, probably purposely, to infer some type of comparison in my comments, when none is implied or intended.

You're full of misinterpretations and misinformation. I'm beginning to believe something's amiss with your cognitive powers.

[-] 0 points by secnoot (-14) 2 years ago

Send them a copy of "The Real George Washington" by Andrew M. Allison, or Common Sense by Thomas Paine, or Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinsky and see if they are encouraged to read those books.

[-] 3 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I don't believe most Cubans would have much interest in George Washington, but I'm sure writings by Thomas Paine would be welcome. He would fit in with Communistic thinking well. Because of his beliefs, Paine left the US for many years and when he died after his return to his country, only six people attended his funeral; his ridicule of Christianity had alienated him from mainstream America.

Saul Alinsky might also be very popular in Cuba, since he had no hesitation to point out the faults of American society and his ideas of how to move toward correcting those problems.

[-] -2 points by secnoot (-14) 2 years ago

Your posts don't seem to have any relation to facts. Cubans swim ninety miles to leave their country and come here. If it was as great as you seem to think it is, people would be swimming ninety miles to get to Cuba.

[-] 3 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I want to meet those swimming Cubans; they should join a superman team. Ninety miles!

At any rate, I have not painted Cuba as an idyllic country. My original post mentioning Cuba clearly said, "...in spite of all the failings of the Cuban revolution..."

You, on the other hand, want to paint a picture of a miserable existence, in which people suffer constantly: a hell on earth, but that's not true. The people of the country enjoy a full literacy rate, universal health care, a long life expectency.

Yes, many people want to leave Cuba. The economic conditions are terrible, many of those directly attributable to the American embargo against Cuba. You are the one ignoring facts and painting a fictional picture.

[-] 0 points by secnoot (-14) 2 years ago

Go to Miami, you will meet many Cubans who have left Cuba.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Why do you consistently distort what I write?

"Yes, many people want to leave Cuba..." I don't deny many people have left Cuba.

You posted, "Cubans swim ninety miles to leave their country..."

To that, I responded, "I want those swimming Cubans; they should join a superman team." I repeat that.

[-] -1 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

You claim to live in Nevada. What first-hand knowledge do you have of the cultures of the Caribbean? I'd wager nada...

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Thanks. Good link.

[-] -1 points by delayedgrat (-157) 2 years ago

This would be interesting had not every communist/Marxist country failed. Marxism cant pass the eyeball test. Cuba's economy was once vibrant pre Castro, now it continues to contract.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

who needs Marx? a good ideal, is a good ideal....

[-] -3 points by Justoneof99 (80) 2 years ago

You are probably right. Given that mass killings that occurred under Marxist regimes during the twentieth century has an estimated death toll numbering between 85 and 100 million, those who know the most about Marxism are, uh..., DEAD.

[-] 2 points by flip (7022) 2 years ago

how about a head count for the dead under the capitalists - or does starving to death not count? if you are having trouble coming up with numbers you might google amartya sen. i assume you have the number at your finger tips - or is that just for the enemies of the capitalists?

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Which Marxist regimes are you talking about? None so far, in spite of what they have called themselves, (Anymore than the USA is a democratic republic, because people call it that.) have been Marxist, which I believe proves my original point.

[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Very - Very - Good Food For THOUGHT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Very - Very - GOOD LOOK AT REALITY !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Twittered. Should go viral.

[-] 3 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

Great Post! A must watch video, for all serious people.

[-] 3 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

Capitalism is a wonderful story told to us our whole life, only some of us figure out it is only a fairy tale after all, after we outgrow our belief in invisible market fairies.

[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yes a wonderful Fairy tale where they forgot to mention that the wicked witch the evil wizard and all the demons of hell live high on the hog while torturing humanity.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

That part is real.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

AH - I see said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw.

Leave the reality of the abuse out of the fairy tale to sell the story.

Must be getting late.

I was thinking of a horror story that was real - can't sell that to an awake audience.

[Removed]

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Well that was excellent! Almost gets me to say we should not vote. Almost. (since he does admit he has no solution) .

But nothing he illustrated was really unknown to me. A great way to communicate the very complicated aspects. A good way to convince people to be activist. I will share and encourage viral efforts.

Thanx

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

jart - no offense - but - why do forum attackers like trashy and ironbutt get 3 responses to every 1 that I can put out in a time period?

And what is up with the limited use of capital's ( upper case typing ) nazi?

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

All anyone has to do is read your BS. Nuff said - and all by you and your cronies - you expose yourselves like some pervert..

[-] -1 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

Tell me who my "cronies" are and tell us all about what we "exposed", you spineless little weasel.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21335) 2 years ago

Great post, jart. I saw this video months ago and believe it was nucleus who sent it to me. It is so very very good!! Anyone know what happened to nucleus? He/she was an excellent poster, especially on the economy.

[-] 2 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

Good post Jart.

[-] 2 points by jart (1145) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Praise the people who actually made it :P

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

This guy hits it better and more completely than pretty much anybody else I’ve seen. The only thing I think he leaves out is how as money becomes ever powerful and as wealth accumulates those who hold it become defacto Kings. This has after all been the story of society’s structure throughout most of human existence.. The key components to monarchy is that large amounts of power come under the control of one person and that that power can be transferred to another upon that person’s death. Money/estates provide those conditions.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

That is Marxian theory; capital is accumulated labor, and guess whose labor? Many economists will argue that point, but to paraphrase Marx and Engels in the Manifesto , many people, among them "...economists, philanthropists, humanitarians..." will apparently attempt to address proletarian grievances, but their motive is simply "...to secure the continued existence of bourgeois society."

I wonder what type of crystal ball Marx and Engels were using.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Some things are just true, always has been, always will be, people will from time to time talk about these things but I think it is the concept that matters, like in the school reports of old, if you put it into your own words, it’s even better. I guess I’m saying that where some see Marx, at times I can just as easily see Jefferson, the underlining concepts are what matter. I think in their hearts a lot people want to do the right thing, but the more we remind them that Marx did too we may actually have a tougher time convincing them.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

True. The name Marx strikes fear into the hearts of the uninformed. They want to discuss Marxism, but know nothing about it except from reading 1% propaganda.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

and besides I feel I can speak for myself fairly well and I think a lot of others can too, it's really about cutting through the clutter and just understanding what we already know, we are a new rising (as one poster points out in his id) we should learn from those that went before but we need not rely on them, this is our path we break new ground with every step forward

[-] 2 points by jart (1145) from New York, NY 2 years ago

This has after all been the story of western society’s structure throughout most of its existence.

FTFY

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Eastern has been under Monarchs as well I'm pretty sure though I'm no historian, African as well I think, even native American cultures had some inherited position bestowed, I do believe the inheriting of power crosses many years and cultural boundaries.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Consider that these days, there are Three Main Classes :

  • The Bankers

  • The Capitalists

  • The Workers

ad iudicium ...

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Anti-Capitalists" is arguably a bit of a misnomer because in these days of 'High Finance Crapitalism' - "Anti-Banksterist" is perhaps a far more apt description !!!

fiat jusitia ruat caelum ...

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] -3 points by riethc (1149) 2 years ago

This video is very naive. A bunch of intellectuals who have a ton of theories but know nothing about the real world.

Keep theorizing in your fictionalized worldviews.