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Forum Post: Why the Health Care Mandate is a TAX on the Lower Class.

Posted 2 years ago on July 1, 2012, 7:28 a.m. EST by JoeTheFarmer (2654)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The Supreme Court ruled that it is OK for the federal government to force a person to purchase a product (the mandate) because the penalty for not making the purchase is a tax and the congress has the power to tax in order to raise revenue. This in itself flies in the face of what our constitution stands for, namely individual freedom and liberty.

The real tragedy is that the mandate will hurt those just above the poverty line more than anyone. These are the folks that are not poor enough to qualify for medicaid and not wealthy enough to afford to purchase insurance. These are the folks that do not work full time for an employer that pays their benefits. These are the folks that will pay the tax and gamble on the health instead since the tax is cheaper than the cost of insurance.

It IS a tax on the lower and lower middle class. It does nothing to help them take care of their health issues.

135 Comments

135 Comments


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[-] 3 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

This tax is for people can easily afford insurance but choose to shift the responsibility to us. All the while wanting other people to take personal responsibility.

[-] -1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

That does not make mandating someone purchase a product OK. If I do not buy insurance I should not receive care. How about that?

[-] 4 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

You do not have to purchase a product. You do not have the option of NOT receiving care. We would have to change the law that hospitals must treat those who need it regardless of their ability to pay.

You would need a tattoo on your forehead Saying, "Let me die" or something. Perhaps you should push for a "Let me die" exception. They do allow exemptions. Just say it is a religious thing.

But then this will not affect you, anyway.

[-] -3 points by HempTwisted (-28) 2 years ago

Why DKAtoday Should Be Permanently Banned From The Occupy Wall Street Forum & OWS Movement:

http://pastebin.com/n2B7ZMXy

[-] 3 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

If an insurance mandate is a solution, then we could solve homelessness by making people buy a house.

  • Barack Obama sarcastically said to Hilary Clinton in the 2008 debates.
[-] 2 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

Here's a link to that -

Obama against the individual mandate to buy insurance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FHzqY_9IPI

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

There's some awesome benefits in this bill. But in no way can I support the mandate. And for a lot of people that's where the bill is highly flawed.

Medicare for all is the solution.

Studies have showed that if a state went for a Medicare for All system, it would be cost neutral or save up to $19 billion per year while at the same time insuring everyone and improving the quality of care.

[-] 2 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

Exactly; and I have a beef with the drug companies too. What was the last disease that medicine has 'cured'? Polio was the last one I could think of and that was a long time ago. Sure, if you need a woody or have heartburn, they can fix you up; but what have they done for us lately? I contend that they have an incentive to keep things just as they are because of profit.

If you were a technician at a pharmaceutical company, and walked into the board of directors meeting with a pill that would with one dose, cure all cancers; what do you imagine they would do with that drug? Do you think they would develop it and shoot themselves in the foot, by losing all of the revenue produced with chemotherapy drugs (my niece was charged $6500 per treatment!!)? Of course not. BY LAW, a corporation's main objective is to return shareholder value. They have all the incentive to help you with your symptoms, because that makes you a repeatable customer, but no incentive at all to produce cures.

If you give health care to all; paid for through taxes; and remove the "for profit" component; you would save 30%+ right out of the gate. Some of the things you do need to spend money on to supply health care to someone is doctors, nurses, hospitals, drugs, medical equipment, clinics, etc. The one thing you don't need is insurance companies. They offer no service except to jack-up the costs and provide a return for their investors at patients expense. Through sheer volume, we could self insure ourselves at a much cheaper price and more efficiently.

Think about it. The only way an insurance company can make money is to collectively overcharge their customers the percentage of profit margin, over and above their expenses. The expenses include the paying of claims, but also include, executive pay and bonuses, employee pay, benefits, taxes (maybe not), Marketing and Administrative Expenses ( you even have to pay for their TV ads), utility costs, maintenance costs, and much, much, more; that are passed directly to the patient on top of already high actual health care costs.

A 2004 economic study published in The New England Journal of Medicine determined that a national single-payer healthcare system would reduce costs by more than $400 billion a year "despite the expansion of comprehensive care to all Americans." I'm sure that figure has increased since then.

I think the cartoon at the bottom of this page says it all -

http://www.healthcare-now.org/whats-single-payer/

Regardless of what spews out of DC; the concept of hot-spotting is the latest idea that has me excited.

http://www.dylanratigan.com/2012/04/10/spend-less-get-more-the-best-solution-for-any-health-network/

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/hot-spotting-can-lead-to-more-effective-affordable-health-care/6asrjm5?from=

Cheers :)

[-] 2 points by writerconsidered123 (344) 2 years ago

I am the lower class, I just got a job paying a mindboggling huge sum of $11.00 an hour. wow now I can buy a new car a new home in the richest suburbs and the fastest internet alive.and the best health insurance money can buy. thank you obama it's my dream come true. yea thats a pipedream. back to my reality this is the first real job I've had since 2007. for the last three years I've lived in a truck. this year I did get an upgrade to a couch because my state has such vast resources NOT (thank you to a friend) and it took all total of 8months to find this job. now I'm supposed to save as much money as I can and find a room or an apartment with a roommate or some kind of affordable shelter other then my friends couch.

WACK upside the head here comes a tax I can ill afford

[-] 2 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

Medicaid expansion to 130% of poverty. This looks like you.

[-] 2 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

Yes,. this corporate plan sucks! Universal health care is the best system, as the cost is spread equally,. based on income.

[-] 1 points by steviekm3 (4) 2 years ago

I make 600k a year and have analyzed this health plan. It is for sure a tax on middle class. I will pay virtually nothing more than an average middle class smuck.

Amazing how people cheer for their own demise. Obama is a great salesperson for the rich.

[-] 0 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

You know, the way i see it is that without this bill in effect, you are paying higher premiums for others to free ride off your monthly insurance payment. You should be glad that more people are coerced into paying their fair share. Also, the way the bill is set up, I believe that middle America will be more inclined to see the wages of working class America go up, so they can more easily pay their fair share.

I'd say the only demographic that is getting a shady deal are those who are healthy and in their prime, but because they are the demographic that plays fast and loose with their lives, they are the ones who are most likely to end up in the emergency room with broken bones and no insurance. No matter how you frame it, this bill is ok. I just wish I did not live in a nation of greedy good for naughts who are too self absorbed to see that universal health care is the best option. But hey, I guess that is why you have to take what you can get.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I think the reason that this talking point gets no traction with democrats is because at least for myself, the taxing doesn't bother me. I make too little to be concerned with this. My employer will carry insurance and what I owe will be a 100% write-off for my taxes. And since I will also get more back on my taxes than I paid into it, I am even less concerned with this thing you call a tax. I am more focused on why society lets myself and other working class people make so little $$ off of my 40+ hours per week of production.

I think perhaps if society began distributing respect(money) based on your contribution to society and devalued the celebrity of wealth, I could make enough to pay taxes, and fewer people would rely on welfare. We already produce for 40+ hours a week and tend to our 1.5 children. We either need more hours in a day or we need to figure out why production is so worthless. If we cannot find a solution, maybe we should all stop producing so we can find another way to afford our living and taxes.

[-] 1 points by writerconsidered123 (344) 2 years ago

production doesn't pay because there's a glut in the market for cheap production. china in particular and the whole world in general. with all that cheap labor around you'll never get ahead in the u.s. in production. Any increase in u.s. production pay and even just stagnate wages as is, is enough reason to outsource your job overseas.

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[-] 1 points by Ronmon123 (1) from Johnstown, PA 2 years ago

Ideology is not a substitute for an in depth study and analysis of the economics and conditions affecting US healthcare. As I have done such analysis, let me correct the misconceptions expressed above.

First, it is not true that those who do not qualify for medicaid and cannot afford to purchase insurance will have to pay a tax. There is a very modest tax penalty, which is not a tax. It is not a tax as it is written so as to not be enforceable by the IRS or under civil law. As a consequence, anyone who can't afford to pay the premiums or the penalty will not be hurt.

The reforms of the ACA do a great deal to help all classes take care of our health issues. Four levels of individual plans will be available under the exchanges, which provides a range of different plans with differing levels of coverage, all of which have minimum provisions that include no lifetime limits, no pre-existing conditions and preventative care. Insurance works via the law of large numbers and the Individual Mandate is vital to mediate premium cost increases due to adverse selection.

Healthcare reform is not a single act but an ongoing process that all modern democracies have tackled. It is an economic and social problem that the US does not any longer have the luxury of ignoring. You are welcome to review my nonpartisan objective analyses of the issues:

http://stevensonfinancialmarketing.wordpress.com/category/healthcare-reform/

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Folks that are not poor enough to qualify for medicaid and not wealthy enough to afford to purchase insurance will pay a penalty. This is bad even if it is part of something else.

The mandate is wrong whether you look at it ideologically or pragmatically.

[-] 3 points by steviekm3 (4) 2 years ago

Just wait to they raise the penalty. Corporate health industry is already lobbying for it and they will get what they want. The low penalty is a foot in the door.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

yup

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[-] 0 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

???????????? you don't understand the legistlation at all ... the so called tax is simply the same as paying your state a uninsured motorist fee ... which then requires the state to provide collision coverage....

[-] 3 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Actually you don't understand the constitution. It is not the same at all.

  1. Driving is a privilege and to drive you need a license and register your car to use the paved and maintained roads.
  2. Driving is regulated by the states and not the federal government. There is no federal mandate currently in existence.
  3. This mandate require you to purchase a product just because you are alive and breathing.
  4. Just because the uninsured motorist fee exists does not mean it is a good thing.
  5. The Constitution of the United State includes provisions that there are structural limits upon federal power, upon what it can prescribe with respect to private conduct, and upon what it can impose upon the sovereign States.

By the way,

The "uninsured motorist fee" only exists in the states because of lobbying by the insurance companies. Every other insurance covers the buyer for all catastrophes. If I buy homeowners insurance, fire insurance, flood insurance, life insurance the policy covers me against damage for any reason. The auto industry began to litigate and say that if someone hit's me their insurance has to pay. They system does not have to be set up that way. It could exist like every other insurance. If you don't buy it you are sol if someone hits you.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Regardless of your interpretation of the Constitution, our system (like it or not) assigns the interpretation of that document (whatever one may think of its lasting value) to the Supreme Court.

Whenever the court's decisions go against one's belief, especially in the United States, the first rallying cry is "Unconstitutional," but the Supreme Court decided the law was Constitutional. So, if you must spit into the wind, don't claim legal justification.

I oppose the ACA, not because workers haven't earned universal health care, but because the bill does not provide universal health care. Instead, it offers a mixed offering of mandated insurance coverage with government assistance to those most in need.

[-] 0 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

The most important part of our system is the right of the people to protest any decision made by any of the three branches of our government.

There have more than a dozen Supreme Court decisions that were overturned later. Most because they were unconstitutional. For example the Dred Scott 6-3 decision handed down in 1857 which declared that black people were inferior to whites, weren't and couldn't be U.S. citizens, had no right to file federal lawsuits, and were property that couldn't be taken from their owners without due process.

Another example is when in 1954, Brown v. Board of Education overturned Plessy, finding that "separate but equal" was invalid and banning racial segregation.

The chance of overturning a SCOTUS decision is highest when the vote is close like this one was 5 to 4 and it reaks of violating the constitution. They way that happens is that the citizens and or their representatives speak out and sue the court.

[-] 0 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

hmmmm ... I didn't know that the Constitution covered driving license's .... ;)

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Wow, is that all you could come up with?

The constitution does not mention drivers licences however if you know anything about the constitution and in particular the tenth amendment you would understand see driving is regulated by the states.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

And for some reason you have a problem with mandated health ins but not mandated car ins.

Weird.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

"If an insurance mandate is a solution, then we could solve homelessness by making people buy a house."

Barack Obama sarcastically said to Hilary Clinton in the 2008 debates.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

I guess you did not read the part after "By the way".

Ether that or you are just plain stupid.

[-] 1 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 2 years ago

Mandated Car insurance is roughly 50-100 dollars a month. Mandated Health insurance is 250-400+ a month.

There's a BIG difference in the two.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

And what? You feel life/health ins is worth less then a dent removal?

[-] 2 points by conservatroll (161) 2 years ago

Driving is not exactly an unalienable right

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Why?

Driving can severely affect your ability to be productive.

Do not be an absolutist as life does not operate cleanly/fairly.

[-] 0 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 2 years ago

It is when you're healthy and young.

Also I'm a great driver.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

So what? Is everyone on the road with you a great driver? Are U superman?

[-] 0 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 2 years ago

Um... actually everyone else on the road is a pretty shitty driver. Especially in Utah. The thing is, I have control over what I do. If someone hits me (which they have 4 times) they pay for my car to be fixed. Simple as that. That is why you carry insurance. Your actions can effect other people.

You dying doesn't effect me. Whatsoever. Therefor, I shouldn't have to pay for health insurance I'll most likely never use just so that you can live. I'd rather keep my paycheck.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Of course - because you and those with you are invulnerable.

What color is the sky in your world? from which direction does the sun rise?

Grow-up - U and no one U know is invulnerable.

[-] -1 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 2 years ago

What are you talking about?

[-] -1 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

No. YOU are weird, DKAtoday. And a LIAR to boot.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

OH I will admit - that to "your" eyes I am weird. U have no compassion for humanity - only for "YOUR" paycheck.

But you only wish that I were a liar as it would help you to feel better about your sellout self.

[-] -2 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

You don't know me, DKAtoday. You know nothing about any paycheck. You have no proof I ever sold out anyone or anything. You simply post LIE after LIE after LIE about me and so many others, and then you wonder why so many of us would love to take your keyboard and shove it up your ass.

One day someone will. And I hope it's me...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Bring it on you corpoRAT loser - this old boy may be sick but I bet I can still kick your ass.

[-] -2 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

You can drop the false bravado, asshole. It's easy to talk tough in a forum hiding behind a veil of (pseudo)anonymity. You won't be so brave when we're face to face. In fact, I'll bet a c-note you piss yourself...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Can U afford to lose a C note? Seems like U are fortunate to have a roof over your head with the crap U try to sell with your PR. No wonder U are fishing for public donations.

Hope U can handle yourself better then U can your words.

Otherwise - U may just as well save the time - throw yourself down a couple long flights of stairs and go to the er - got insurance?

[-] -2 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

You and I are gonna have to finish our business IRL, Danny Boy. Like I said, I'll see ya 'round town...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Cmon now are you sulking?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

GooD NighT EverbodY.

U 2 uppercase ( anti use of capital letters ) nazi.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I'm sorry (NOT) are you experiencing a personal crisis? Has a Disabled person beaten you into submission? or speechlessness? U have been uncharacteristically silent - may we all pray/expect that it remains so?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Has a disabled person got your tongue?

Or did an intended victim kitty get your tongue?

It puts the lotion on it's skin.

U sick bastard.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

U R down voting comments but R unable to respond?

R U frothing?

R U alone?

Should the forum break privacy and send U an Ambulance?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Bring it.

Funny text yell'er.

Funny thought - R U rabid like Old Yeller?

[-] -1 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

Count on it...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago
  1. . .2 . . 3 . . 4 . . 5 . . 6 . . 7. . 8..................................
[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Is psycho pouting now? ask your mommy/nanny for a cookie and some milk.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Apoplexy - is that it? Is U havin a short circuit?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

U aren't cryin all alone in your dark closet fortress R U ?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

vvv? whatsa matta - U so quiet - got U a little Migrane ? - or R U trying to thimk of somtin 2 say? Ask your nanny/mom if U are stumped.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Never mind. If that is your picture that is displayed on your other crap - then U will not be hard to identify.

Funny other than a diaper - pretty much how I described U.

Full body shot not shown - I suppose the diaper could still be there.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

OH - BTW

How will I know it is U?

Do U wear pants over your Diaper?

No proxy's. Don't be tryin to set your nanny/mommy(?) on me.

Seriously - how will I know U. Dumb vacant stare in your eyes (?) snot dripping down your nose (?) drool all over your face and shirt?

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago
[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Has U died?

Cool.

U can have a chance to be reborn - complete whole - and healthier than U could possibly imagine.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

R U seething?

Is U speechless?

Did you lose your script?

Are U busy licking your balls? Did U need Help to find them? No Matter - still impressed that you can flex like that.

Dog.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Query:

You seem to do this a lot - how many times have you actually showed-up to get your ass kicked?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Have you wimped out ? or are you traveling? let me know - I can kick your ass at the Northtown Mall. Let me know when you are in town.

[-] 0 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

it will not HURT any one. its a 1% tax.. that means.. if you make 20k you pay 200.. which only means.. that your tax refund will be 200 short.. in the mean time.. you can still access healthcare thru the emergency room and where ever else it is that uninsured people find help. only now no one can complain about this behavior because the 20k people will be paying their fair share. there are all kinds of sliding scale clinics that low income people use for healthcare. as for the bull malarky about keeping small business from hiring.. what a crock! the law doesnt affect any company with less than 50 employees. most companies with more than that ALREADY provide some type of insurance.

[-] 3 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

By 2016 the tax will be 2 1/2%.

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

First of all it is $750 or 1% whichever is higher.

Obviously you are not living paycheck to paycheck.

The mandate is not the way to solve the healthcare issues facing this nation.

Oh, and by the way, it goes against the spirit of the Constitution of the United States.

[-] 0 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

where do you get this figure? and i dont mean wikipedia.. i mean USC or IRS. here is a part i found about figuring out whether you can get the IRS to pay your premiums.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/reg-119632-11.pdf

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

That document has nothing to do with the penalty for not buying health insurance. That document is talking about eligibility for the state run health care exchanges that each state must set up. Your eligibility is based on your MAGI.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

yes i know that.. show me a document that shows the figures your stating. all the reports i hear say 1% of your income. not a set amount

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[-] -1 points by kilroywashere (20) 2 years ago

So no health care equals cheap health care? 0=1? You might ask anyone who's been laid off and Cobra'd into medical insurance if $1000 a month to keep insurance (and not have to get new medical insurance later that includes pre-existing conditions) equals ANY tax that falls out from this onto the middle/lower classes. That's just characteristic of lack of life experience or any real pragmatism.

[-] 5 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Providing affordable health care for people who cannot afford Cobra payments, are in financial trouble, laid off, working part time... is a great endeavor. Forcing those people to pay a $750/year penalty because they cannot afford to buy the Cobra is not how he should get there.

It is really quite simple. You really do not need a lot of life experience to see the truth in that.

I would that statement is dictated by practical consequences rather than by by theory or dogma.

[-] 1 points by kilroywashere (20) 2 years ago

$750 a YEAR is pragmatically preferable to at least that much a MONTH to have any kind of health care through Cobra or elsewhere. Agreed that this issue should not be dictated by dogma.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Since the 1st yr (2015) is only $95 penalty. And the 4th yr (2019) is the the high # you mentioned, we have time to get rid of the Heritage foundation/Gingrich/Dole/Romney mandate!

Happy.? Protest against it. I'm with you. Lets agitate for the Pelosi progressive single payer/public option. That is real competition against the price gauging 1% insurance industry!

[-] 6 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

I would not care if it were $0.01. My problem is that the government does not have the constitutional authority to penalize me for not buying a product.

The fact that is does nothing for, and actually penalizes, the people that need help makes it all the more ludicrous.

[-] 3 points by SteveKJR1 (8) 2 years ago

Joe - you are right - the government doesn't have the authority to penalize you for not buying a product.

The reason that Justice Roberts called this a tax is because the government has that authrority but it is limited.

It is limited in the fact that the government can only collect taxes from individuals when they have an income to be taxed. If they have no income there can be no tax.

Now the only other provision of taxing an individual is a "direct tax" or "Capitation tax" and that tax.

So, the challenge yet to come will be if a tax is imposed on an individual for not buying Obamacare, what will that tax be collected against?

Now the only

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

The fact that is does nothing for, and actually penalizes, the people that need help makes it all the more ludicrous.

lol

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

End the Heritage foundation mandate, Pass the progressive Public option!

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Concerning the mandate which this thread is about,

In the end it will hurt Obama because the supreme court of the united states decided it is a tax. To make things worse, the tax is on the lower class and the lower middle class.

It is a "Red my lips" moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8erePM8V5U

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

End the mandate. pas the progressive public option.!

Vote out anti public option politicians.

[-] 0 points by steviekm3 (4) 2 years ago

Is it a tax ? Only Roberts said it was. The other 8 disagreed .. yes/no ?

[-] -1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Five of the nine agreed. It was the bases of the ruling.

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[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

But the state can require you to buy car insurance, tabs for your car. a drivers license, a fishing license, a hunting license, a boating license, Boat tabs, a trailer license, trailer tabs, make you have life vests in your Boat, make you wear seat belts in your car. Take away your "privilege to drive" etc etc etc etc - but you have a problem with advancing the cause of universal health care.

What a dick-head you are manure Joe.

[-] 5 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

It is not the same at all.

  1. Driving is a privilege and to drive you need a license and register your car to use the paved and maintained roads.
  2. Driving is regulated by the states and not the federal government. There is no federal mandate currently in existence.
  3. This mandate requires you to purchase a product just because you are alive and breathing.
  4. The Constitution of the United State includes provisions that there are structural limits upon federal power, upon what it can prescribe with respect to private conduct, and upon what it can impose upon the sovereign States.
  5. Just because the uninsured motorist fee exists does not mean it is a good thing.

By the way,

The "uninsured motorist fee" only exists in the states because of lobbying by the insurance companies. Every other insurance covers the buyer for all catastrophes. If I buy homeowners insurance, fire insurance, flood insurance, life insurance the policy covers me against damage for any reason. The auto industry began to litigate and say that if someone hit's me their insurance has to pay. They system does not have to be set up that way. It could exist like every other insurance. If you don't buy it you are sol if someone hits you.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

quote ... "... If you don't buy it you are sol if someone hits you....."

ok... so I guess that also says .... if someone doesn't buy health insurance ... they are sol ... right ?

if so .... dumb ass .... where are you going to hide when ... half the population is walking around with TB ... and a zillion other deceases ?

[-] -2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

You missed the point entirely. You don't seem to see how the auto insurance companies are taking advantage of people. They are making you pay a premium because some people might hit you without insurance. It would be like a fire insurance company charging you an "lightning fee".

There is really no need for the hostility. You need to learn to have a discussion without calling people names.

I never suggested people go without. What I said was that fining people are not making enough to afford buying insurance is not the way to address those needs of the people.

The real tragedy is that the mandate will hurt those just above the poverty line more than anyone. These are the folks that are not poor enough to qualify for medicaid and not wealthy enough to afford to purchase insurance. These are the folks that do not work full time for an employer that pays their benefits. These are the folks that will pay the tax and gamble on the health instead since the tax is cheaper than the cost of insurance.

[-] 3 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

there IS need for hostility ... u fcking idiots come here and LIE & try to mislead people into believing u're BS u heard on fox un-news ... U are Traitors ... and read the bill moron

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

CorpoRAT shills supporters of the greedy white collar corrupt and corrupted criminals get busy on OWS Occupy and 99% event days. We have stuff currently scheduled through the 5th of July - so expect to see a lot of status-quo shill shit.

[-] -2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

There is only need for hostility if you do not have the brains to carry on an intelligent discussion.

So let me get this straight. You are OK with the idea that the government can now force you to buy insurance from an insurance company under penalty of a fine?

I thought OWS was about ending government oppression and crony capitalism. The government is forcing us to give our money to for profit insurance companies under penalty of a fine. That is not how you fix healthcare.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

ok.... what is your answer ?.... how you fix healthcare.?

[-] -2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

I did not say I had the magic answer.

What I will say, and did say, is that in my humble opinion, punishing the poor and/or struggling should not even be considered a part of ANY solution.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

Joe.... the current Health Care Plan ... is a MESS.... I agree.... but it is a temporary fix... that does HELP the poor WAAAAY more than what existed before

[-] -2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

This post was about the mandate not about the rest of the health care act.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

So ....What? >>> U feel it is OK to be sick with out ins and U need to see a Dr and expect for someone else to pick up the tab?

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

It is becoming more and more obvious that you have no compassion.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Catch yourself looking in the mirror as U typed that?

I'm on disability and I pay over 200 a month for ins.

U on the other hand make a fair amount of money each year ( so you say ) and yet bitch about having to get health ins.

Greedy bastard.

[-] 3 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

OK so you only have compassion when it comes to yourself.

I am not complaining about buying health insurance. I pay over $900/month to insure my family as a self employed consultant. I guess YOU DID NOT READ what I wrote. Here I will paste it below and you explain how my words make me a greedy bastard.

"The real tragedy is that the mandate will hurt those just above the poverty line more than anyone. These are the folks that are not poor enough to qualify for medicaid and not wealthy enough to afford to purchase insurance. These are the folks that do not work full time for an employer that pays their benefits. These are the folks that will pay the tax and gamble on the health instead since the tax is cheaper than the cost of insurance."

[-] 1 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

"I'm on disability and I pay over 200 a month for ins."

Your life story changes with the wind, doesn't it DKAtoday? Are you reading from a script, or just making shit up as you go along?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Voting 4 your own comments now?

What about my story has changed?

I am on disability and I pay for my insurance out of the disability payment every month.

[-] -2 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

So you're voluntarily paying for insurance using money you don't have to work for, and condemning people who don't want to be forced to pay for insurance with money they DO work for. You truly are an ASSHOLE, DKAtoday.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I have paid into the system all of my working life - unfortunately I got ILL and Had To Collect on the disability insurance as my last Employer did not want to deal with my health maintenance issues any-longer.

Not an entitlement - earned insurance.

[-] -3 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

There is no such thing as "earned" insurance. Like I said, DKAtoday, you truly are an ASSHOLE.

[-] -1 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

That's not what was said, you irritating little prick. Go back to MoveOn.org and maybe they'll let you lick some toilet seat Bushbamney sat on.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

No U try to avoid saying straight out what U mean.

That is what makes U ( I guess ) a somewhat successful corpoRAT shill.

[-] -1 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

Put Up or Shut Up, DKAtoday: If you can objectively prove I am a "corporate shill" do so and I will never post here again. If you cannot, your failure will prove to all that you are the LIAR I already know you to be.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Too Bad So Sad - For U.

I do not care what U do.

Too bad U apparently can not say the same as for your obsession with me.

Continue to shill-on as U R a good example of what is wrong with this country/world - humanityselloutshillvvvrustybuttbrucie pr hack for hire.

[-] -2 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

Again, DKAtoday, childish drivel does not qualify as objective proof. No cigar.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

No problem - don't much care for cigars.

I do not need to refute U as U and Your cronies do well enough exposing yourselves - like some pervert.

[-] -2 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

So you admit that you were lying all the hundreds of times you called me a "corporate shill". What else have you been lying about? Everything, perhaps?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

What are U "entitled" to be the only one allowed to copy and paste? U royaldemonriddenasshole - U complain about others for things that U do. U R so much like trashy. Grow-up vvvshill.


[-] 0 points by vvv0630 (5) 2 minutes ago

This posting is gibberish, DKAtoday:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-the-health-care-mandate-is-a-tax-on-the-lower-/#comment-775148

Unless and until you post proof that I am a "corporate shill", you are admitting to the forum and the world that you are nothing but a LIAR. Copying and pasting crap like you do over and over won't change that. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Too Bad So Sad - For U.

I do not care what U do.

Too bad U apparently can not say the same as for your obsession with me.

Continue to shill-on as U R a good example of what is wrong with this country/world - humanityselloutshillvvvrustybuttbrucie pr hack for hire.


[-] 0 points by vvv0630 (5) 0 minutes ago

Meaningless drivel, DKAtoday:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-the-health-care-mandate-is-a-tax-on-the-lower-/#comment-775152

Post your proof or stop posting your lies, TROLL. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

"WE" do? there U go again. Royal we or demon ridden we?

U shills are something else. WTF do U need a donation 4?

U claim U R something U R not ( a supporter of OWS ) U support statements made by an admitted antiows'er ManureJoe.

Who do U think U R kidding. What are U a high functioning moron? or what?


[-] 0 points by vvv0630 (5) 4 minutes ago

Reply to DKAtoday below:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-the-health-care-mandate-is-a-tax-on-the-lower-/#comment-775142

Many if not most of the Occupy organizations have a tin cup account at WePay just like we do. If you're suggesting that proves somebody is a "corporate shill", then the majority of the Occupy Movement are corporate shills and we're in very good company, e.g.:

https://www.wepay.com/donate/ows

Idiot... ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Don't try to put words in peoples mouths - you do a poor job of it.

How do you stay in business?

Your disclaimer: https://www.wepay.com/donate/ironboltbruce

WePay does not make any representations regarding the tax deductibility of donations nor the tax-exempt status of particular donation campaigns. Furthermore, WePay does not oversee the use of proceeds and cannot guarantee that donations will be used for the purpose advertised. Please direct questions regarding the administration funds to the campaign organizer, and questions regarding the tax treatment of donations to a tax professional.

[-] -3 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

More meaningless drivel, DKAtoday:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-the-health-care-mandate-is-a-tax-on-the-lower-/#comment-775155

But at least you keep bumping a good post, TROLL.

[-] -3 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

Meaningless drivel, DKAtoday:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-the-health-care-mandate-is-a-tax-on-the-lower-/#comment-775152

Post your proof or stop posting your lies, TROLL.

[-] -3 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

This posting is gibberish, DKAtoday:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-the-health-care-mandate-is-a-tax-on-the-lower-/#comment-775148

Unless and until you post proof that I am a "corporate shill", you are admitting to the forum and the world that you are nothing but a LIAR. Copying and pasting crap like you do over and over won't change that.

[-] -3 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

Reply to DKAtoday below:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-the-health-care-mandate-is-a-tax-on-the-lower-/#comment-775142

Many if not most of the Occupy organizations have a tin cup account at WePay just like we do. If you're suggesting that proves somebody is a "corporate shill", then the majority of the Occupy Movement are corporate shills and we're in very good company, e.g.:

https://www.wepay.com/donate/ows

Idiot...

[-] 2 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

if you dont drive, fish, hunt or own a boat or a trailer nothing is required.

[-] 0 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

YOU are the dickhead, DKAtoday. There is a world of difference between being given the option to buy something and being forced to pay a penalty if you don't:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/us-supreme-court-obamacare-decision-makes-individu/

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You have no option to buy car insurance and you damn well get penalized if caught driving without it - same as you get penalized for failing to get or do anything else in the comment of mine that you do not like.

Stick your head back up your ass where it belongs vvvdickheadRustyButtBruciehumanityselloutshill.

[-] 2 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

actually regarding car insurance , you do have an option. if you dont own a car there is no need to buy car insurance. And car insurance does not cover, oil changes, wiper replacement, tires and general maintenance

[-] 1 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

Wrong across the board as usual, DKAtoday. Yes, Americans DO have alternatives - legal alternatives - to paying for car insurance and to the rest of the bullshit you listed. The only ones who ignore those options are spineless lemmings like you who do whatever the voices in their television (e.g. CNN) tell them to do...

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

What is your option to not buying car insurance - not driving?

Great option SFB's !!!

Stick your head back up your ass where it belongs vvvdickheadRustyButtBruciehumanityselloutshill.

While you are at the Dr for a psych evaluation - see if the Dr. won't give you some free ointment for your self flagellation wounds.

You sound like a cheap bastard that would not buy your own.

[-] 1 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

Once again, DKAtoday, you don't know what you are talking about or who you are talking to. Does Sesame Street have a forum? If so, perhaps you could troll over there and find some slow six year-old to impress with your (lack of) intellect.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

OOOOOOOOOOOOOO someone sounds a bit testy - Did you miss your nappy today?

BTW - WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE ?

Other then lame - I mean.

[-] -2 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

Another immature and sadly typical comment from forum troll DKAtoday.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Getting a migraine RustyButt? U R not even trying anymore - how sad for U. No stamina. The shill life must be pretty soft if you are all worn out already.

[-] -1 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

Put Up or Shut Up, DKAtoday: If you can objectively prove I am a "corporate shill" do so and I will never post here again. If you cannot, your failure will prove to all that you are the LIAR I already know you to be.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Too Bad So Sad - For U.

I do not care what U do.

Too bad U apparently can not say the same as for your obsession with me.

Continue to shill-on as U R a good example of what is wrong with this country/world - humanityselloutshillvvvrustybuttbrucie pr hack for hire.

[-] -2 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

Reply to DKAtoday: What you post here is childish nonsense, not objective proof:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-the-health-care-mandate-is-a-tax-on-the-lower-/#comment-775106

No cigar.

[-] -2 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

Reply to DKAtoday: What you post here is childish nonsense, not objective proof:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-the-health-care-mandate-is-a-tax-on-the-lower-/#comment-775102

No cigar.

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (28482) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Too Bad So Sad - For U.

I do not care what U do.

Too bad U apparently can not say the same as for your obsession with me.

Continue to shill-on as U R a good example of what is wrong with this country/world - humanityselloutshillvvvrustybuttbrucie pr hack for hire.

[-] 0 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

You are a LIAR, VQkag2! You call Democrat Obama's signature legislation a "Heritage foundation/Gingrich/Dole/Romney mandate"? Whoever you are fooling must truly be fools...

Republicans and Democrats: All Problems, No Solution.

End Two-Party Tyranny: Our Second Revolution!

Here is the TRUTH about Obamacare:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/us-supreme-court-obamacare-decision-makes-individu/

[-] -3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

It is what it is!! Your repeating the same hostile accusations don't make it right. Inults don't make you right. Yelling don't make you right !

LMFAO!!!

Support OWS! Vote out anti public option poliricians!!

[-] 0 points by vvv0630 (-63) 2 years ago

"repeating the same hostile accusations"? You must be looking in the mirror as you say that, you LSOS...

Republicans and Democrats: All Problems, No Solution.

End Two-Party Tyranny: Our Second Revolution!

Here is the TRUTH about Obamacare:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/us-supreme-court-obamacare-decision-makes-individu/