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Forum Post: Why should poor people be involved in decision making, they got no skin in the game.

Posted 2 years ago on June 13, 2012, 11:35 a.m. EST by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Isn’t this really the attitude of, oh, about 24% of the people in this country? There have always been those, and there will always be those that think decisions should be made by people who have something at stake like a potentially large tax bill, and if you just let everybody have an equal voice the small stake holders will just steal from the large stakeholders, that’s why corporations are not one shareholder one vote, they are one share one vote, he who owns the most rules.

Those who agree with that position have an easy choice they can vote Republican, the rest of us have to figure out a way to beat them, or get rich trying.

81 Comments

81 Comments


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[-] 3 points by luparb (290) 2 years ago

The game is nearly over.

It ends like a game of monopoly. All land, resources, means of production and means of living are now privately owned.

The owners grow fewer and fewer in number as they squabble with each other to accumulate more and more.

New players start with nothing, have nothing to do and nowhere to go except the streets. The internal contradictions of capitalism make labor superfluous. What doesn't get outsourced get's made redundant. Freshly graduated engineers, biologists, physicists are all forced to shine shoes and wait tables. The youngest, greatest, most talented people are turned into telemarketers and door-to-door salespeople.

The petty bourgeoisie start getting scared. They want to keep their little business' and rental properties, they want to keep milking the public, but this news of economic collapse keeps haunting them like a bad dream.

We all tell ourselves that Europe is an island, isolated. It's their culture, it's the personalities, not the system that is causing the collapse.

The cost of living keeps rising, austerity is on the way. The unemployment isn't going away, and seems to be getting worse. Working people are living in tents.

So now, all the power resides in the hands of wealthy, who are furiously tearing the planet apart for more fossil fuels, more minerals, more commodities.

The free market will solve everything! they cry, let us be free to lower the wages further, let us be free to increase the hours, employ children, let us be free to own the water, heck, why not the air as well.

More fossil fuel subsidies. Invade Iran so we can finish the pipeline. Clear another forest. create some jobs

And here I am responding to someone in a forum who believes we should give more power to capital.

ugh

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

You might want to re-read the post.While your at it check these out:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/search/?q=user%3Afactsrfun

[-] 1 points by luparb (290) 2 years ago

ah sorry I didn't read carefully. my bad.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

np thanks for stopping by

[-] 3 points by BetsyRoss2 (125) 2 years ago

Everyone pays taxes. Sales taxes especially, plus vehicle taxes, etc. Ergo, everyone should have a voice in their government.

"No taxation without representation!"

Why do conservatives want that to become "No representation without taxation?" Do they want to go back to "only white, male, Christian land owners get a vote?"

[-] 2 points by know1 (210) 2 years ago

I'm sure they do!! Hey, I should make fake republican bumper stickers saying that

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Y E S, That is exactly where they would like to go, unless it could be. "only I get to vote, that's right, me, and I will count my vote myself."

I would also note that there is skin, and there is skin. It is like, there is speech, and there is speech.

There is the flesh and the survival of it and there is money. There are a lot of people who are living at such great risk that the result of this election could well mean their survival and life to old age, to others it is only money that would have zero marginal effect on their lives.

Why some whose lives and skin are really on the line can be convinced to vote for their overseer, that is the real mystery.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Here’s how one con put it:

“[-]1 points by 1sealyon (245) 18 hours ago Why not ask this question another way. 50% of the people pay no Federal Income Tax. Why do the people that pay nothing have any say in how the tax money is spent? We have a graduated tax rate why not a graduated ballot box? Everybody gets one vote, and then you get one more for every $1000 that you pay in taxes? ↥like↧dislikereplypermalink” From here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/if-we-give-them-a-lower-tax-rate-dont-we-have-a-ri/#comment-647959

made it’s own posting here:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-dont-we-turn-america-into-a-corporation/

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Only Christan land owners can hold office still today, after all these years, when it comes to having a say in what goes on, the Christans are the only ones with say that matters.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

Why should poor people be involved in decision making, they got no skin in the game.

or teeth either

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

LOL

[-] 2 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

"Broaden the base so more people have skin in the game" Guess what that means in English?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Not sure where the quotes come from, not my post, but my feelings are more along the lines of inalienable rights, everyone should have an equal voice, rich or dead broke.

[-] 1 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

The quote was one of the Republicans. Boehner, Ryan or one of them. Just perked up my ears because it means tax the poor. Now those folks are " "Tea". Taxed Enough Already. Remember what the tea Party was about in the beginning? That would cut into their lottery money. Someone suggested we give one free lottery ticket to each person when they vote. Very damned good idea. Cheap-Labor Conservatives would filibuster. They have to have low turn out to win.

[-] 2 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

Election Day should a National Holiday, and we celebrate not only the right to vote but actually do it, VOTE. Imagine that, we encourage people to vote and make them realize their vote counts and matters. It's called Civic Duty.

By the way MJ should have never been made illegal. It was a large mistake when they did it in the 1930s and it's effect has been abhorrent ever since. And it does show very clearly just how massively misguided and ignorant we can be as we continue waging our glorious War On Drugs. (Hows that working out?) Until we pull ALL our heads out of our a$$es we will continue to screw ourselves rotten in a genuine WTF moment that we can repeat over and over every time we realize that intelligence is rarer than we thought and that ignorance and apathy really is winning the day, still. Sure there's a glimmer of hope. I haven't abandoned all hope as yet.

The Puzzler

[-] 1 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

"Election Day should a National Holiday," Both parties the same? See which one wants more people to vote.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

Absolutely, get people involved. It can work! I believe other countries do this already but I'd have to research that. It just makes sense that we involve more people in voting so they have a stake in this democratic republic. It doesn't work when too many don't care enough to vote.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Don't mean to boast but I did suggest that recently, and your right they are trying to squezze the working man when he pays for it all already, between the boss takin his piece and the bank theirs.

[-] 1 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

Sorry I did not remember. But we are fairly anonymous here, factsrfun.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

true HP, I remember seeing you in the thread, I think in time we might start to put some good ideals together

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28497) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Life is an equal stake. Everyone's life is at stake.

Unite in common cause - LIFE.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

it's surprising how many people don't get satire, glad you got it, but some of the comments are wild, it's like just saying in plain english what the GOP pritace everyday freaks people out

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28497) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Satire can be easily misunderstood when one is angry. It can also be seen as an invitation to be satirical in their own contributions. It can be seen as an open opportunity/invitation to vent.

Then you have the corpoRat shills - and the only thing they have is BS so they will use it to fuck with satirical food for thought, any food for thought.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

fair enough, venting is sometimes needed, as far as the "others" go we just got to keep dragging them into light one by one and letting the sunshine burn them up

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28497) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yes - venting can be very good - lets the rage go and allows sane reasoning to begin.

I like the comparison of corpoRat Shills being vampires ( blood suckers ) like their masters.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Don't forget the country was founded on only white land owners having the right to vote. Don't want the mob to take our stuff. And nowadays we have have at least 40% of eligible voters staying home. These are mainly lower income left leaning voters. They have become hopeless and apathetic. They feel they have no say. They have been convinced of this by design. This is why I believe the 1% fears most of all mandatory voting for all! (like Australia) We won't get 100% turn out. But it will be massive (90% maybe) there will be write ins, no consent, type votes but thats ok. But there will be much better representation. And our democracy will be more responsive to the 99%. It is the best thing for us.

[-] 4 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

We could use their tool against them, give everybody a lottery ticket when they vote and for a million bucks we could get 40 million more to the polls.

[-] 1 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

Great idea! One problem. Filibuster. We gotta get Congress. Crap, that is an awesome idea..

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

thanks, on filibuster, we need to make them stand there and talk till their done, let America see them on CSPAN it could change our Holiday viewing

[-] 1 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

Or limit the number of filibusters. You get only three per session.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I agree something must be done, but they tweaked the rules to make it easier, they could at least undo those, everybody in Washington is scared to death somebody might get something done.

It is a race though with all the money piling up in the bank accounts of the 1% and all the real power being stripped from government and given to money in the name of freedom, against the demographics pushing the GOP out of favor. The 1% are locking down Democrats as fast as they can because they know brown people and gays are going to be losers for the GOP going forward and with money ruling all, and the pissed off people chasing Ron Paul or whoever they pretty much can move right over and keep control. The only thing that stops it is if we can kill the GOP while the main power of the 1% is still trapped in its’ body, before it fully jumps to the Ds.

[-] 1 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 2 years ago

What they fear is that we will Occupy the Democratic Party. Use the Tea Party tactics against them. Like the Paulies are doing now.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

exactly, we are the ones speaking truth, and truth will win out if you stick to it, the corporate dems will run to the sinking ship of the GOP as we shine light on their bullshit

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I like that. Anything that might increase turn out.!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

thanks, it's cheap and would work

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Mandatory voting. On the surface, I like that. Voting tied to driver's license. Don't vote and you don't drive. Why not? In Florida if you don't have insurance they take away your driver's license (the insurance lobby got that passed decades ago).

I'm trying to think of the downside to mandatory voting. Possibly uninformed voters just being sheeple and pulling the voting lever based on TV campaign ads. Those with the most money to spend on ads will "buy" the elections, because candidates are marketed just like toothpaste to the masses. The sheeple are mindless drones that just vote the ads because they don't have the time/energy to really research things because they are overwhelmed with life struggles for survival.

Don't know. This requires deeper thought/analysis.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Just passing by this 'forum-post' and you got me thinking (again!). Voting is mandatory in for example Australia and though there are idealised issues pertaining to liberty and freedom 'to do or not do' - the arguments that all citizens 'vote' in 'democracies' are really quite strong as are the arguments pertaining to 'Proportional Representation'.

However consider that one should NEVER be forced to vote for anyone or anything - Political Party or Referendum Issue etc. and thus a "Non of The Above" / Abstention - option has to exist ! Now what IF the "Non of The Above" comprised more than 50% ?!! Interesting times, n'est ce pas ? Which is probably why "They" would never allow it, lol !!!

ad iudicium ...

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

There was a time we only allowed males with property to vote because they felt poor masses, women, slaves, were not smart enough and would vote incorrectly. Really they were afraid that these people would be smart enough to vote their own interests. And that would make it harder to exploit the masses. Mandatory voting for all eligible citizens!! It's what the 1% fears most of all! It works in australia. Why not here. Who do you want to exclude?

[-] 0 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

I don't want to exclude anyone. But I am not in favor of mindless voting either (this is also why I do not favor DD). Irresponsible voting by not being sufficiently knowledgable is, imho, worse than not voting. I think it would promote exploitation by the power-elite who are prepared to "buy" elections with an overwhelming amount of campaign ads. This is what Rick Scott did in Florida to get elected. The guy is mega-(r)ich and used his own money (supplimented by other contributions of course) to blast the airwaves with so many campaign ads that I actually started to get sick of seeing them because they were so frequent. So, the sheeple just hear "Rick Scott" relentlessly and vote him in. It is all just mass media messaging.

That is not Democracy in action. It is Capitalism and the power of promoting a product (candidate) in action.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Money in politics is a big problem that much we can agree. Lets remove it. But to say stupid people can't vote is not workable. Who will decide who is smart enough.? How will they decide? A test? We don't test anyone now. Should we.? They used to have ridiculous voter registration tests to keep black people from voting in the south. We're not gonna do that. Are we? No I'm sorry we're gonna have to let stupid people vote just like we do now. But we certainly should change laws regarding money (none s/b allowed) Ads, (None!) And much more.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

I did NOT say stupid people. I said UNINFORMED people. There is a difference. In general, it is a bad idea to allow uninformed people to make important decisions, because it frequently results in bad outcomes. This is present all through society. Would you let someone drive a car or fly a plane who did not possess the proper knowledge to do so? Would you let uninformed people testify as witnesses in court who did not possess a proper understanding of the actual events in question?

Try to use some common sense, and please don't read things into what I say.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Mandatory voting for all eligible citizens!. We have stupid people voting now and we always will. We're not gonna form the voting police to exclude the "not sufficiently knowledgable" This is arrogant, elitist, and unworkable. Use YOUR common sense! Now to your oversensitive pedantic issue with my use of "stupid".

"mindless", "irresponsible", "not sufficiently knowledgable" "sheeple" this is what you said! I said stupid.so just replace my "stupid" with your "mindless" or your "not sufficiently knowledgable" Doesn't matter to me. I was interpreting. But it don't matter what words are used to exclude people from voting. Who determines if someone is "mindless"? How do we determine if someone is "not sufficiently knowledgable"? With a test? We don't do that now. I'm sorry, I want more voting! the act itself can be an incentive to become informed. We will get more uninformed voters but we will also get more informed voters.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Well, I think we have reached an impasse here. I understand and respect your opinion, but will likely never agree with it. In these incredibly difficult and complex times, the importance of informed voter turnout versus uninformed Pavlovian-programmed response via mass-media commercials is akin to an illiterate buyer purchasing rat poison thinking it to be toothpaste.

This country has never, in my lifetime, been more deeply divided over the subject of income inequality. Our world becomes increasingly more complex on a seeming exponential scale. Never has there been a greater need for an educated and intelligent populace with good critical-thinking skills capable of making good decisions based on reliable data. But politicians and their backers continue to practice centuries old tricks of saying or doing anything to get elected, including mass-deception, and they have just gotten more and more slick at it as the decades (that i have observed) have gone by. Without the time/effort required to penetrate this veil of deception, voters stand a very good chance of electing those who will not function with the best interests of We The People in mind, but will instead carry out the secret agenda of the ultra-rich who buy them into power.

So that is my viewpoint on this issue.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I suppose if we had progressives in charge of determining who the "illiterate buyers" are I might be able to go along with your viewpoint. I wouldn't accept a right winger making the determination though. The other thing perhaps we can agree on is that we should do something serious to A) inform voters/citizens who are voting today. B) remove all money from politics (publicly funded), No ads allowed, Shortened campaigns with weekly debates. But more turnout scares the 1% more than anything else because with it comes the possibility of all progressive change that would help the 99%.

[-] 1 points by szoth (5) 2 years ago

Poor people literally have skin in the game. That is what they struggle to protect, regardless of whether that struggle is a revolutionary struggle.

Let's find ways to make the revolutionary act more obviously equivalent to the struggle to protect that skin.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

welcome to the forum this is my other stuff

http://occupywallst.org/forum/search/?q=user%3Afactsrfun

[-] 1 points by MoshehThezion (98) 2 years ago

The poor... should rule... because the wealthy make their money by the exploitation of the labor of the poor... PERIOD. THAT IS HOW IT WORKS.... they use cheap labor... to make gains. a duh.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

There is more to the post than just the headline, here's some more you might want to check out:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/search/?q=user%3Afactsrfun

[-] 1 points by MoshehThezion (98) 2 years ago

What are you trying to say????? specifically???

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

What I am saying is that about 24% of Americans, we'll call them Republicans, think that "he who pays the bills, writes the rules" I think America was founded on a different ideal, I think those that died before us so we could vote left us something more valuable and powerful than money but only if we decide that is. If we decide what we want to have power lie with the people, then we use that power to apply the nations capital in a manner to benefit all not just a few. Or we can just join the Republicans and just take care of our self.

[-] 1 points by MoshehThezion (98) 2 years ago

Agreed... which is why I will run as a Democrat in 2016. The poor... out number the wealthy 100 to one... bascially. All the poor and middle class need do... is focus on a serious solution plan to our major problems, and re-direct the nation... with a focus on restoring the freedom we once knew, and implementing intelligent investment programs to spread the wealth via jobs... abundant jobs for all. I say we can do this...--- http://mosheh.org/people-and-jobs.html

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Which district will you be running in?

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Wow, is this the ideology of a perfect loser or what?

It appears that the defeatist mentality is what keeps most "alleged" rulers in their positions of illusionary power.
Yet, most individuals fail to see that this movement, as with the global revolution, is a time coming to fruition that will no longer enable that illusion of power to maintain its throne. Face it, we don't have to beat anyone......this has been foretold for centuries and will be done regardless....just keep the truthful path and ride out the storm. There are millions of us who have prayed and welcome in this new era of time now! NO ONE CAN STOP IT!!! Thank goodness!!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Let me make it simple for you, failure to do all you can to defeat Republicans is a betrayal of all that is good and decent. Does that help you understand?

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Failure to defeat this established Pale skin European dominated politically fake "racially motivated" society is a betrayal to humanity...period!!!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

keep paying attention, I got hope for you....

[-] 0 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Really? Why thank you....but I have no hope for any of you because you keep trying to forget how this country got this way. I am here to remind you, there is nothing new under the sun.....your country men are not concerned about your future, or that of your children, or your families, or your welfare or the rights given by the Constitution... You all don't get it. do you? This is just part of all the nations the pale skins destroyed in the name of DIVINE RIGHTS....what a laugh! Where are your Divine Rights now?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZwF9NnQbWM

Would this be the chickens coming home to roost?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

that's it, sweat it out

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Say it louder, I don't think your family heard you.

[-] 1 points by doitagain (234) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

very abstract vision. let me tell you about socialist party in soviet union time. party was represented by people older then 24 years. almost everybody had communist party id. they paid donations but never had done any changes in the contry.

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I see what you mean if we let the people choose, naturally they will choose communism, this has been a fear of the 1% since the very beginning.

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

True, "he who owns the most rules", so support a new constitution and "beat them", as follows:

We the peoples, in order to secure Freedom and Justice for All, do enact this Constitution for Strategic International Systems LLC (or SIS LLC) as summarized in the following Business Operations Forecast:

The customer value mission of SIS LLC is (1) to organize all customer-investors into 3,000 investment squad sites of 16 friends (or virtual specialties), and related internet investment legislatures of 50,000 friends (or virtual towns), requiring (2) a $20 weekly capital contribution for 1 year (or $1,000) to (3) create your investment club bank of 50,000 friends (or physical town) -- that is, having $50 million in initial assets -- which (4) due to the operation of today’s fractional banking system becomes (5) $500 million in new annual business loans (or $10,000 in new annual individual loans) from yourself as a new bank officer to yourself as a new business officer who (6) takes 75% employee business control as business officer-investors and 25% customer business control as bank officer-investors of (7) your specific 12 businesses (or investments) in your new bank investment account wherein (8) your investor voting power equals (9) your 1 of 12 levels of experience in (10) your 1 of 12 sectors in 1 of 50 industries in 1 of 200 occupations in 1 of 3,000 specialities which (11) votes-upon your purchasing (or investment) orders as (12) proposed by your employee-elected chain of command.

This means you will have 75% employee business control over your workplace as business officers and, as bank officers, 25% customer business control over all 12 investments (or businesses) in your new bank investment account. In turn, with this 100% town-level business control of your 3,000 workplaces, you can decrease your 12 customer consumption expenses by 75% for services, vehicles, education, retail, food, construction, technology, manufacturing, wholesale, health, justice, and banking expenses; that is, over your first 12 years of SIS LLC membership using a 75% more effective and efficient town design, and related 3,000 workplace designs (herein). Furthermore, while creating your new town & workplace design as described by this constitution, you will replace today’s communist big businesses, and related big governments, with your new small investment club banks, and related small businesses (or investments), as proposed, financed, and patronized by your 3,000 investment squad sites of 16 friends (or virtual specialties) in your internet investment legislature of 50,000 friends (or virtual town).

Why? First, because today’s executive business income (mostly from bank or financial asset income) is 33% of all income which is a huge amount of upper 1% income to split among yourselves as new bank officers having 25% customer business control, right? Second, because today’s executive business wealth is 42% of all wealth which is a huge amount of upper 1% wealth to split among yourselves as new business officers having 75% employee business control; that is, only after becoming new bank officers (above) first, right?

For example, this means if you earn $12/hour today, then you will earn $36/hour tomorrow after adding (1) your old wage income, plus (2) your 33% (more and new) interest income as a new bank officer, plus (3) your 42% (more and new) dividend & gain income as a new business officer. Together, these 4 sources of wealth & income from your specific 12 businesses (or investments) will double your net worth every 6-12 years (until retirement); that is, from the compound interest decline of today's upper 1% executives whom you will replace as the new bank & business investor-officers. So, with this power, let’s end today’s communist big businesses, and related big governments, okay? How? By helping to operate your own Business Operations Forecast (above) at http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/ ; so help us help you, today!

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

When it comes to my state for ratification, I think we have a lot of education to do first.

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

Yes, education is at the very heart of the matter. However, it won't ever come to your state for ratification without 50,000 people per state joining the above site. We only have 20 people now from a few states.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

How does the 50,000 trigger that? It seems it has to be voted out, raised in the state houses.

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

Sorry, a misnomer, per state-county of 600,000, you need 3 towns of 50,000 -- or your neighborhood plus 2 more in your county, plus the rest of the counties in the state (but you leave that to others you contact by net). In other words, the proposal would need 75% state legislature approval for formal takeover of the banks (which are the real government) in the form of a new constitution, but you don't have to have 75% state legislature approval to informally takeover the banks (or constitution), which would only require 25% of voters as bank investor-officers. Why? Because 60% of the population doesn't vote (out of disgust with the ineffectiveness of today's system) which leaves 20% repuglican-stooges and 20% demo-fascists, both of whom are not moderate (and therefore lost), so you get your 25% from the 60% who don't currently vote out of disgust (the majority). You use NextDoor.com to create your neighborhood, and send free postcards to 100 homes. See the full proposal for the exact process, especially the competitive advantage part shown in the business operations forecast, at: https://docs.google.com/a/strategicinternationalsystems.com/document/pub?id=1mKKLMTIyvRCLK2ppPj_GDjdieCvJnATaZaCmlajubWU

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

None of this is in the Constitution, so what's your game anyway? I have a much simpler and i am quite sure more effective ideal, get rid of all the Republicans and scare the hell out of the dems.

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

In order to catch a criminal, like today's communist big banks, and related big businesses and big governments, the cop mirrors the criminal, step-by-step. That's what the above plan does, it mirrors the criminal who is focused on money by taking that money away from him and spreading it out. Today's upper 1% bank investor-officers have absolute power. We’re just giving the other 99% the means to have the same power, albeit much more greatly disbursed, for disbursed power can't be dictatorial like it is among today's upper 1% bank investor-officers, and therefore cannot be a "scam" because so many are being "watchful" in the above chain of command. If you like being suckered by these bank & business dictators, that's okay, for you're won't be the first to be suckered by these upper 1% repuglicans. My direct democrats will do better -- bank on it -- while overthrowing today's fake democrats too (who are just more repuglicans in disguise). So, join the above site to at least show tacit political support for the above new constitution for new times. Also, start your own NextDoor.com site in your neighborhood to create the internet investment legislature needed to implement that new constitution in your town as a new economic, and related political, leader yourself, for as Gandhi said: “You must be the change you wish to create”.

[-] -1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

Because the actual return for a bank investor-officer is much greater than it is for a business investor-officer. For example, if you invest a $1,000 in capital you can loan out 10 times more (or $10,000). If you loan that out at 10%, then your interest income is $1,000 on a $1,000 investment, or a 100% return per year (but you have to have 50,000 people and a CEO plus staff to make that return). Nonetheless, that's why banks earn 33% of all profit (3 times higher than any other industry). Consequently, if you are not a bank investor-officer, you’re nobody because the entire business and government system revolves around bank investor-officers, right? For example, when the president speaks, the market yawns most of time, but when the federal reserve bank chairman speaks, the markets often react with huge movements in the trillions of dollars. Do you like being a nobody (like today’s presidents), not us, for we bank on the law (or science) instead.

[-] 0 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

So, it’s doesn’t matter what people believe, it only matters what they can PROVE as the law (or science) by physically TESTING it. Consequently, all I need is 50,000 people, in any town, to test the above new constitution, and thus prove it mathematically. Said another way, the law (or science) isn't subject to anyone's personal opinion, for after mathematical proof is provided through testing, then acceptance is the only rational, as opposed to emotional, opinion people can have in what they write, say, do, etc. For example, there is only one law of gravity, right? Why? Because that's what repeated physical testing has proven. Consequently, even though the church didn’t BELIEVE that Galileo was right about the sun (not the earth) being in the center of the solar system, Newton proved him right with his tests, and related mathematical proof. Of course, Newton’s law of gravity was further REFINED by Einstein, but that didn't change the substantial correctness of Newton's Law of Gravity as proven by his physical tests, and related mathematical proof. The same is true of natural social law, such as the above constitution (in the bottom link), as a natural physical law in need of testing, and related mathematical proof. Therefore, I assert to the world that the above Constitution, when physically tested by 50,000 people as an internet investment legislature in just 1 town, will mathematically prove that they will have a 75% competitive advantage over today’s upper 1% bank & business upper managers. Consequently, those 50,000 people will become the new bank & business investors-investors of their town, and thus take away that 33% of income and 42% of wealth which today’s upper 1% suck out of their town to their seaside villas elsewhere. Instead, you will have the seaside villa because you will have increased your income by 33% and your wealth by 42% while reducing their upper 1% wealth and income by an equal amount. That will be true of everyone in your town 50,000. Furthermore, much more important than those monetary (or quantitative) results, are the standard-of-living (or qualitative) results; namely, that you (and they) will thereafter work 75% less and yet have 75% more luxury. Therefore, you will have 75% more freedom (or time), by working 75% less, to enjoy that 75% more luxury, such as the luxury of spending 75% of your day studying (or enjoying) the arts and sciences (or whatever you choose to do) instead of working some mindless, boring, repetitive job (requiring no creativity or thought), all while having 33% more income and 42% more wealth (quantitatively) than you do today. However, 50,000 customer-investors have to DEMAND that this new constitution be TESTED by themselves as new bank & business investor-officers. Why? Because today’s upper 1% managers have a VESTED financial interest in maintaining the STATUS QUO to your (and their) detriment. Therefore, what have you (and they) got to lose (such as today’s bank and business dictators) by joining the web site above and becoming a consumption purchasing officer; that is, for a few hours a week, just to test and prove it to the world, bettering the world by your scientific accomplishment, and related entry into history. You have nothing to lose, but a great deal to gain, as cited above. Bottom line, you (and they) can have 75% more luxury for 75% less work if you will let me prove it to you by executing that new constitution as described above in just 1 town of 50,000 people. Why? Because it's the law (or science), and I can prove it mathematically if you participate in its testing, and thus join the site along with 50,000 other people whom you incrementally recruit as cited in the business operations forecast. The business operations forecast details the quality-of-life increase, the benefits, for the cost which is just a few hours of your (and their) time per week. Have you read that business operations forecast in the above "full proposal" link in order to understand the benefits to yourself and others (aside from making history)?

[-] 0 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

And you're right, the figures I cited above are not in the constitution yet, so thank you for pointing out my need to add this. In fact, it took me 12 years just to do the research to write the above 1-page summary, so I need a science staff to help. Would you like to help by writing down logistical procedures like that you astutely required me to write in reply?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

There is a working group on a suggested amendment it is very clean and very good, I suggest you seek them out if you want to help but the work you have done so far, really doesn't rise to the simplicy needed for a founding document,

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

There's nothing simple about the law (or science). Many people very mistakenly believe it should be simple, and so they suffer because of their own simplicity. Bye.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

E=MC squared

[-] 1 points by 1sealyon (434) 2 years ago

Why not stay with the current system of one vote per person and then add one additional vote for every $1000 you pay in total taxes (sales, income, etc.)? Truly proportional representation.

[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 2 years ago

Great minds think alike? How did you arrive at $1000? This might actually increase tax revenue. If someone is $100 away from another vote they can volunteer the extra. Or, just send an extra $1000 to gain some say.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

read much?

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[-] -1 points by 2percent (0) 2 years ago

Should we go back to only land owners vote? That's skin in the game!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (7070) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

buying land is way too easy....