Forum Post: Why not apply for a job?
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 7, 2011, 2:44 p.m. EST by TaxPayer
(7)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I see a lot of you complaining that you can't afford to live in the style you would like to. Many of you want the rich to pay for you. How is that fair? I do not see you paying for those in third world countries who have a larger financial gap than even you and the top 1%.
Stop protesting and destroying jobs by ruining the economy. Stop hurting the middle class by "attempting" to cause chaos on Wall Street as the middle class owns more than half the stocks in America.
Go out there and apply for a job. Don't complain about being unable to get a job if you are using your time to march on Wall Street or post to this forum.
I for one am happy to pay my taxes, at the same rate as those who make much more than me. Is it not fair that we all play by the same rules? We are all in the same system, after all.
Stop wasting your time whining about not having money and go apply to some jobs.
You hiring?
So the state can tax me to pay for their wars of aggression? No thanks, you should keep being a pussy and supporting pure evil through your own moral weakness. You are a pathetic apologist. Just another hopelessly clueless zombie.
So, wait, let me get this straight. The suggestion on the table was for Person X to get a job. Your personal position is you have no desire, let alone need, to have or get a job, because if you had one, you'd run the risk of paying some taxes and funding a war. Is that your position?
My position is to resist everything and anything I can that pertains to our current paradigm, because that's the only way to take this system down (it'll come down on it's own, but I'm doing my best to help speed it along). I don't expect everyone to take it to such extremes, but they could. We are all free to make out own decisions, and we are all accountable for the outcome of those decisions.
Basically the "derp, derp, get a job hippie" narrative is dumbstruck retarded, and these people are as much the enemy of the people as the State, and the banks, and the 0.1%er.
Wise-up, wake-up, gl and peace.
good job, like your thoughts
Hey, thanks man.
If you bring the system down, what do you want to replace it with?
I honestly don't have an answer, why don't we all get together and figure it out before the 1% fuck us all?
Democratic Capitalism
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/708507790/protest-to-prosperity-occupy-wall-street-pamphlet
http://www.democratic-capitalism.com/
Does the ethical rightness of my desire to bring the most evil system in the history of mankind depend on my ability to singularly "replace it"?
If the system is brought down with no thought about what to replace it with what is to prevent something even worse from filling the void?
I'm not sure anything worse COULD fill the "void". You clearly don't know how bad our current paradigm is for people, and the planet. Get educated.
Your answer is to call me uneducated?
There are worse systems in place today, at this very instant. Try Mynamar. Iraq, Syria. Surely you have sufficient education to understand that these are real places with real people living in social conditions far worse than ours.
Why do you think places like Iraq and Syria exist? Derp, derp, Watch more Fascist/CIA propaganda please. You have a very small view/understanding of the way this world works, and who funds the gears of destruction.
derp derp? Wow. Your rhetorical tools are big and sharp.
This movement will fail if people like you take hold of it. You make immediate assumptions about my background and education with absolutely no evidence. From your self perception of superiority you pass judgement. You are closer to a fascist than you realize.
Derp derp indeed.
You've SHOWN yourself to be uneducated, sorry if that hurts your feelings, I am not a "superior" person, I just happen to know more about the subject than you. I have only judged what you have presented me, nor did I ever make the assertion that the standard of living for the average US citizen was better or worse than that of any other nation. I'm a fascist? lol! By what definition?
Good god. How can you possibly tell what I know from a dozen sentences on of all things an internet forum? Your form of fascism is that of ideas. Because I don't fawn over your use of language and get in line behind your thinking you toss your casual contempt as if it were a badge of honor.
Maybe sitting around in a drum circle oozing erudite scorn for "the man" is your idea of a positive force for change. But you are deluded if you think that this movement is currently anything more than a raw force of nature waiting to be harnessed for good or ill. If your casual contempt for others becomes part of the DNA of this movement, then it will NOT be a force for good. It will become yet another heavy handed ideology that insists an the acceptance of dogma and excludes the "wrong thinkers" from the "circle of truth".
And if you think words on an open internet forum hurt my feelings, you give yourself too much credit. For all I know you are a plant from the Young Republicans trying to stoke controversy. Or some whack job that refuses to take their thioridazine.
Good people can do many things well. Contempt for others is not one of them.
I only have scorn for trolls, and for those people who REFUSE to open their eyes. If that is you, then yes, I have contempt for you.
"Your form of fascism is that of ideas." Actually no, as far as I can tell, I'm only defending my statement that the USA is the most destructive (evil, depending on how you characterize it) nation in the history of mankind. I am, and have been defending this position with logic, reason, and facts. This is fascism of ideas to you?
Your counter examples were not even relevant to my initial assertion, as they spoke of "social conditions". NOT TO MENTION Iraq, Burma and Syria had BETTER social conditions before Western interference. AS I said, Get educated, do research, open YOUR mind. I already know what I am talking about, you have shown that you don't. Truth is NOT relative, and "wrong thinkers" aren't in the "circle of truth". Duh, only RIGHT thinkers CAN be as there is only one truth.
I'm really not trying to be a dick, but you are just flat out wrong.
Every one of those countries oppresses women, gays, Jews, Christians, etc.
You said no system could be worse than this one.
I offered a counter example (Syria, Iraq, Mynamar) proving your assertion wrong.
To which you said they were bad because of our system made them bad. But that is irrelevant. Because, no matter the cause, Syria, Iraq, and Mynamar ARE INDEED worse than where we live.
QED.
If you are not going to think clearly, then stay silent.
You are making a false equivocation between the the Governments of above countries, and the "SYSTEM" that creates such government. ALSO none of those governments are nearly as corrupt, fund as many terrorists, or kill as many innocents as the USA. Try harder.
You seem to be more interested in winning an argument.
Are you suggesting a country the allows honor killings is a better place to live? Or. like recently in Pakistan, one that expels a girl from school for blasphemy because she misspelled a word?
My issue is not with the sins of the current system, but with the idea that simply tearing it down will magically bring about something better. I want to know what is going to replace this system. You said nothing could be worse than the current system. This is a ridiculous assertion. I'm betting even YOU could think of a worse one.
Hey! Something we agree on, you are totally right, simply tearing down this system WON'T "magically" bring about a better one. But the problem is people don't even know how big the problem is, and believe every piece of propaganda they hear (BAD GUIZE IN PAKYSTAN OMG!). If you think the world is a better place now, with the systems that we have in place, then it would be without them (Shadow Govs, fiat currency, usury, state sponsored terrorism, Military idus complex, state sponsored drug running et al...) , you are just plain wrong, I'll take a 100 yrs dark age barbarism over the systematic, efficient murder of innocents for resources and power under the guise of "globalism" "capitalism" and "nation building", would you agree honest brutality on a smaller scale is better than MASSIVE brutality based on blatant lies?
I would prefer that we don't take the path of The Phoenix. There is no guarantee that if this world collapses into total anarchy that there will EVER be something good rising from the ashes.
If a building is to be condemned, then you need to know what will be built after the bulldozers have cleared the lot. I will never ascribe to the idea that we should tear it down with no concept of what will come after.
The only thing that can stop human progress is total annihilation, the only thing that can cause this total destruction are planetary threats (asteroids, supervolcanos etc...) OR the State with it's Nuclear "technology" (look at Fukushima, Japan will be uninhabitable soon)
The collapse of the current paradigm is assured. Whether chaos is the result depends on us. And the more people are awake to the REAL Issues, the better. I have a good concept of what comes next however, and while it won't be great (and much worse for some) it will be better than what we have now. If all else fails, we can always go back to actually following the Constitution of the United States, and the Rule of Law.
Without electricity millions will die. No power for heat. No power for hospitals. Cheap electricity is the salvation of the world. Solar, wind, etc. Not enough.
If you want millions to die, start with yourself - it might kick off a trend.
In a word, yes.
Wrong.
And yet, you offer nothing.
Which still does not invalidate my statement, back to troll class sonnyboy.
Fine i am a troll. Now, explain too me where all of the donations have gone. Where is the money? Who is holding the money? What is the money being used for? When will there be an accounting? Whay aren't the totals on the front page?
lolwut? I don't know anything about said donations.
"Does the ethical rightness of my desire to bring down the most evil system in the history of mankind depend on my ability to singularly "replace it"?"
Respond to that comment or start a new thread trolltard.
I am sorry, but how old are you? You believe that the USA and Capitalism is worse than Nazism? Communism?
Capitalism is not perfect. The US HAD Slavery. We start wars. But this has been going on FOREVER!!! You sound very ignorant when you say this is the most evil system. There are far worse options.
Yes, if you remove a set of consants from any equations you must replace them with a new set ofr constants.
Or what? What "law" is this?
No law, just basic math.
You are applying "basic math" to an ethical question? You really are stupid.
If you have a valid point you do not have to sink to name calling. Do you really believe in your ideas state them with integrity and facts.
lolwut troll? I'm not "name-calling" Slam IS very stupid. Nor do personal attacks change facts (of which I have plenty). Try again?
And yet you just can't answer it.
Because you think you are being smart, but you are not, you are gibbering like an idiot. What is the question retard? You've asked me quite a few....
i understand patpat*, I understand
So, relatively speaking, you think Pol Pot, Stalin, Idi Amin, Hitler and Jim Jones were good guys?
The huge majority of the people will always be tired of your ethical rightness crap.
Wow, what a retarded straw-man, That's right, OWS protestors are Pol Pot and Hitler.
I didn't say that at all. Where are you comprehension skills. You referenced our system as being the "most evil system in the history of mankind". I was merely pointing out who you placed ahead of us.
The US supports these despots. And often displaces more competent leaders for tyrants that support their corrupt agenda. As I said, do your research. You think Iraq is better now than it was under Saddam? You are clearly not very well informed.
Would I move to Iraq? Hell, no. Is it better than before? Hell, yeah. Iraq has lot's of issues. Lots. But what good did you see in life under Hussein?
The US supports Pol Pot? Hitler? Idi Amin? Stalin? The US hasn't always been on the right side of history, but why would you say "The US supports these despots"? That is laughable
Iraq is NOT better than it was before...they did not have the fighting in the streets/explosions going on. They did have a strict dictator but their country was very much clean, and in order.
No outside groups were able to penetrate Iraqs walls, there were no suicide bombers....a large fraction of the people still had their family members. Trust me when I say Iraq is close to Hell BECAUSE OF THE US.
We went in there with no disregard for their cultures and tribes, they're not set up like the US...they still have tribal groups, etc that were partitioned off from each other and for good reason.
The the Iraqi people liked living under a cruel dictator. Yeah, right.
and as for the cruel dictator portion we should take a good damn look at our own system....we murder a lot of people every year...and many of them are innocent. If you want to do a body count...no one kills more than the US. We can't even keep it in our own borders, we kill EVERYONE. You're under an illusion.
they don't but they also don't like being blown to pieces and worrying every night not when but where the next bomb is going to go off.
Your ignorance and simplistic worldview is laughable. I really don't care though, keep believing whatever you want. The truth needs no defense.
And it's funny, Hapte. "The truth needs no defense" is another way of saying "I don't got nothin."
Ha! So true - He has no argument. I think this guy just took a world history class from some mega-liberal communist at his super-expensive private college and now thinks he knows everything.
So, how do you explain ranking us as having the most evil system, yet you get ruffled at seeing who you placed us behind? That is a pretty straight forward question.
I'm not ruffled, but it is impossible to debate with someone who is using a different (incorrect) data set. More innocent people have died at the hands or through the actions taken by the US gov/international bankers/intelligence community than all of the above despots (some of whom worked with the US , received aid from institutions controlled by above parties etc...) If a Nazi receives financial support from an American bank, and the US gov knows this, but does not prevent it, they are culpable. If an American corporation subsidized by the US gov lends material support to the Nazi war machine, they US gov is culpable. Amin? top figures (from questionable organizations) are around 500,000 people dead during his regime. Far more than 500,000 people died through US slavery ALONE. I could go on, but I won't because It doesn't seem like you understand basic causality, therefore, this whole debate is moot. Run along now.
Dude, have you seen the Empire Strikes Back! They blew up a whole planet!
Yeah, go run along now. It is beyond naivete to believe America is responsible for most of the world carnage. You described a required purity that is only existent in your fantasy laced brain. Even if you would be right, which you aren't, don't you think that every other country would fare even worse by the standards you described? Of, course they would. I'm not telling you to leave the country, because it is your right to stay. But, if the US has been so atrocious since our beginning, then why would you stay?
As I said, you don't understand how logic works. If you don't understand basic reasoning, how could you understand the rest of what I am saying?
I thought you were running along. But now that you have stayed.....
To stop stating your position and resorting to what you have said is the sand box equivalent of "oh yeahhhhh?"
You got nothin, dude.
I understand you want to take down out current system. Are you prepared for the Military State that will follow? Are you prepared for the Millions of people starving in the street? Are you prepared to have blood on your hands. I am sure the system is imperfect, but there is NO perfect system. Capitalism, with its faults, have pulled more people out of poverty than any other system in the history of mankind. Do you really want to take that down?
Who is financing you? someone has got to be paying your cell bill. I wonder if they know.
I have a burner (prepaid, and I am only charged for calls made, not received, cost me about $10 a month) I make a non-taxable income, modest, but livable.
Drug Dealer. For sure.
If it is modest and livable, what is your bitch? you want more?
For myself personally? I want less, always less. Less is the new paradigm, and I embrace it's beauty and simplicity. The truth is coming regardless of whatever we do, I'm just encouraging people to wake up faster. And I hate the defeatists, and apologists, and trolls, and know-nothings, they spread the division with their falsehoods, lies, and ignorance.
Seems to me your mantra of less and less for yourself runs quite a bit against the grain of the positions and desires I see being raised by Occupy. Are you sure you're in the 99%? Taking less is a piece of cake. If you like, I'll even help you and take whatever you got.
I doubt that you'd be able to take what little I have. I can't speak for the the rest of the protestors, I only speak for myself, what are you saying? I want to end many corrupt institutions, and bring power back to the people and mostly, just end the lies. This "goes against" the grain?
"Just end the lies"
I suspect you may be lying.
I have nothing for/against any of the points you're making here, but dear lord, you sound like one of those hippy mormon preachers out to bring the blind/deaf into the "know". Heard of rational arguments?
My arguments are quite rational. This is a pure troll thread, so fuck them, I have no respect for trolls.
And yet you still have a cell phone, and those pants that won't stay zipped.
Until you are a Breatharian, you are guilty of the crime of consumption.
It obvious to me, and probably any reader, that I am smarter than you, continue to shuck and dance about clown, I need the laughs.
No, It isn't.
And we aren't laughing with you.
Are you the "pure evil" he might be supporting, since he pays for your welfare?
Not on welfare dumbass. Try again.
Medicare? Medicaid? Food stamps? All of the above?
No government assistance whatsoever. Sorry bud.
Mommy and Daddy, Grammy, and Gramps?
Oh, please don't tell me that you are the putz that stands by the 42nd street entrance.
And if you are please zip up your pants.
maybe you can get a job sitting at a window table at starbucks composing the next best seller on your Ipad. Hopefully to draw customers in to buy $6 cups of java. Or wait, do you hate starbucks too, because they are not paying 20 an hour to brew coffee or they're not green enough.
Are you talking to me? What the fuck are you babbling about? I'm not even getting the jist of your ramble.... No, I would never patronize Starbucks, what is your point?. Organize your thoughts, (if you actually have any) read my posts and get back to me kid.
I have some serious problems with the movement and the hypocrisy I see. You folks should be in front of Congress or the White House protesting our elected officials to craft good economic policies that will create jobs by loosening the constraints on business to create good jobs. The policies of this administration have hampered the economy, created the biggest deficit ever, contributed to the highest levels of unemployment since the depression etc. Prime example – Obama Care. And remember its 2010, not 2008. Obama has had nearly 3 full years to turn us around and he has not. Herman Cain said it best, "don't get mad at the bankers and don't wait for them to come out of their offices and write you a check, this is America- go out and get rich too". But most of you neither have the education, the ingenuity, the drive or work ethic to get rich. You wanted it handed over to you in the name of fairness and equality- how un-American! You folks are for redistribution of wealth, socialist ideals almost bordering on Communism. Don't you understand that money is how we keep score in our society. It's a simple equation. It says I put in x amount of education, work, time, ideas, sweat which = x amount of money. If you have no money, it's not the big corporations or bankers fault- it's your fault. How can you folks be protesting for 2 weeks? I would imagine that most of the protesters are unemployed. In that time frame you could have been out looking for a job. And, not to mention, you have cost the NYPD 2 million in overtime for the taxpayers. See the hypocrisy?
Wall Street, the 1%, The Elites, whatevre you want to call them, Own all the polticians. Republicans and Democrats are illusions created to make us think we have a choice. They own most of the third parties as well, in case we start to wise up. We don't live in a Democracy or a Republic. We live in a Dictatorship of Billionaires.
Obvious troll is obvious. stfu tard. your post did not address anything in ANY of my posts, try being relevant, and then get back to me.
You are really angry, do you get enough fiber? I bet its a lack of fiber.
I just realized I may have been a little sexist, are the girl with the facial piercings, and homemade tattos that stand outside of the Sabbaros at Times Square that asks for people crusts?
If so, what are you doing tomorrow night?
Its a social movement man. Just rubbin some stuff together to see if something happens Dig? Dont got no dough to go to the big Washington political show man. Really aint my bag to politic man. Cain is like a really freaky fool.Cant dig the work scene man, dont need it either. Cop get paid anyway anyhow man. He wants a raise also cauz the Man gots kids to feed 2. Rich man gives a little at the store so I can get a brew so I says Got a Buck? He spares one man. Has some compassion once in a while cauz He wants to go to Heaven too. Thanks for the buck Rich guys. Hippie Happy and feeling good here people! But Rich man Take more than his family really needs. What do u want Rich Man? More? Like really good ice-cream but isnt happy with just one scoop. I am grateful if I am offered a scoop even if I didnt do nothing I still says Thanks You and am happy and he feel good too for lettin me get some. It works ok sometimes for all. But us losers still not angry. We are just worried that the Extra Scoops of ice-cream will melt before Rich Guys and Girls can eat them and then there isnt any for the kid down the block that cant buy some and it goes to waste for what man? Dig? I will help this movement for free man cauz it is righteous and I will help everyone to get it man. Like I can share really good and everyone gets a scoop until it melts man.
You won't get a job sitting on your macbook pro. Nor will you change anything from these forums. Zombies won't exist til 2013. Many people actually like the system. Just because your arts degree couldn't land you a job doesn't mean you should protest.
Lol, you're a clown, college is for suckers, I'm on a shared PC, and just because people are dumbfuck ignorant about the system doesn't make it sound.
College seems pretty sound to me. Have a friend that just graduated, going into a job making ninety thousand a year. Seems to work. Being ignorant and just not caring are totally different. I make a happy living for myself. Therefore, I don't give two shits about the system's flaws. Let me guess,, You are in your twenties, wasn't happy with what you could achieve, and decided to protest because of it. Sound about right? Also I am going to take another guess and say you are nothing. You had to wait for someone else to start this protest.
//I make a happy living for myself. Therefore, I don't give two shits about the system's flaws.//
That is your fucking problem, and is representative of the philosophy of many in this Country. You know, you can making a happy living, and give a fuck, they aren't mutually exclusive.
I never equivocated Ignorance and apathy. the "soundness" of post secondary edu is dependent on many factors. I know people making 6+ figures that didn't go to college, and didn't incur any of the cost associated with it. So nice story about your friend, what is your point? that you don't understand the term "sound" maybe? I congratulate you one "not giving two shits" it's very admirable of you, and what does your little ending list have to do with anything? I'm happy with my income as well, I'm just a better person than you, so I care about others. Now go back to troll school, you're out of your league.
Is $0 an income? just curious as if you have an income then you are payig taxes AND funding a war. OMG OH EM GEEE.
Is all income taxable? Next.
By law, yes it is. Is it all reported? no it is not.
Lol, Rule of Law? in the US of A? Did I not make it clear I won't fund terrorism (the US gov)? What are you not getting?
You asked a simple question, I gave you a simple answer. Currently it is the law and therefore I gave the correct answer. This is not anarchy.
Lol, ok. All income is not PHYSICALLY taxable if that is what you are trying to say. Did I ever make the assertion that the law didn't require you to pay taxes? Thanks for telling me something I already knew I guess?
You asked "is all income taxable" I replied that by law it is. Simple question, simple answer.
You're so smart. Google "Rhetorical question"
I refuse to use " the man's" corporate search engine.
It shows.
Look up "sarcasm"
And zipper repair,
A hopelessly clueless zombie who spends his time earning money for his family and himself rather than whining and name calling.
You can earn money without a "job". And, I stand by what I said, call it "name-calling" if you wish, it's true, you are pathetic.
Honestly, jobs do suck. People need to figure out other ways of living. Starting our own businesses, trading with each other, barter. I dropped out of the 9 to 5 world in 2002 and I've never been happier or more prosperous.
No need to beg government OR corps for jobs. We can make our own.
Amen brother. I'm mostly just have sadness in my heart for people who just can't get it.
I am sad that you won't zip up your pants in public
I'm 48 years old and single. Since the age of 11, I've always worked two and three jobs. I paid my way through college, paid back those debts and for the most part, have always paid my bills on time. I have ALWAYS paid my taxes. Despite an elite resume with AAA references, I cannot get work. I was hit by a car on my bicycle by an uninsured 22 year old motorist driving without a license. I've maxed out my credit cards paying for surgeries and treatments, plus $800 a month for insurance, another $750 to $1200 a month for prescriptions, $1200 a month for the home I will soon lose and so on. I can't sell the house because I live in a very depressed area. There are 90,000 abandoned homes and hundreds of thousands more in foreclosure in our state.
My savings is gone. My quarter million dollar retirement account is GONE. I didn't receive matching funds bonuses or anything of the sort. I scrimped and saved and put away every single penny myself for my later years. I've never had a vacation. I've never spent beyond my means. My home is tiny. I don't own fancy cars, fancy clothes, jewelry or excess anything. I did what I was supposed to do. I've taken in cancer patients, I've been a caregiver for the sick and infirmed, people who had no where else to go. And now, I have no where to go.
I despise what has happened to our government. Right now, I blame the Republicans for DOING NOTHING. They should be brought up on criminal charges for REFUSING TO DO THEIR JOBS. ANYTHING IS BETTER THAN NOTHING. Refusing to work with an administration they "don't like" is not justification for letting people STARVE and SUFFER. Their hatred of the Obama administration is NOT CAUSE for allowing families to live on the streets in the FREEZING cold. Women and children are starving right here in the United States of America while they wrap up another holiday weekend. They should ALL BE ASHAMED.
the only thing that matters right now is CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM, unless you get the big money out of politics, no change whatsoever will occur, this should be the focus of the protests, we need to have honest politicians that work for the public before any thing else can get done, campaign finance reform (ending corporate personhood, kicking the lobbyists out of the Washington) is the perfect starting point. It really is a no brainer that this should be the one thing we can all agree on. Because unless we do this, all those other demands that people have will never be addressed, not in a millions years.
Yes, a thousand times, yes.
Kyle4nia I think that is a funny comment. I own a business and I put ads out for sales people, computer programmers etc. and get very little response to the ads....we have all this unemployment and no one wants a job?
Where is the OWS money? Who is holding it? Where are the totals? Why are the totals not on the front page? What is it being used for?
If you are unsatisfied with this point of view ("Why not apply for a job?"), read the post below:
Many people have expressed their opinion about the way forward in this movement.
There are 3 common flaws in the proposals 1)"demands" have to be approved within the existing political structure, 2)physical theft or violence would require interference from the government, 3)current political entities would absorb this movement, when the feeling in the air is that something absolutely new is required.
Here is my proposal: create a new national capitol. Only that move will be seen as satisfying when we look back on these events in the decades to come.
But how can this small movement break free from the current oligarchy that controls us? We are doctors, lawyers, and farmers just the same as our founding fathers. Yet, the principles they created have been distorted to serve the oligarchy. These principles should be renewed.
In creating a new and better seat of government, we have the most powerful tool ever created - the internet.
I suggest Kansas City, Kansas as a location for this new seat of government. A new and faster internet is being created there. An open and more benign canvas exists at this site, without the stifling history and "baggage" found on either coast.
We don't need to hate "them", we'll just focus on creating a better "us". The energy to do this, exists right now in New York.
CarryTheGrips
I totally agree. Get a job and stop complaining.
hey why didn't i think of that, why don't you unemployed people just apply for some jobs, people clearly haven't thought of that idea yet. fucking idiot.
There aren't any jobs! Or hadn't you noticed?
We desperatly need people driving tractors, moving cattle, wrenching in shops, etc here in the midwest, and can't find anyone who wants to work. The pay is good, sometimes its not easy work, but it's rewarding and the people are usually great.
Well, I'd argue there are some jobs, but no good ones, and no upward mobility. Anyone arguing for the current system is either a troll, a 1%er, or a retard.
Why in the world would you want upward mobility? You would then start making more than those below you. How far upward would you want to go? If everyone has a "living wage" then you should be satisfied where you are because the higher you go up the more pressure is placed on you and the stress levels, well, they can kill you.
You are absolutely right, my argument was in the context of the current paradigm, in that even the status-quo enforcers cannot deny anymore that THIER corrupt system is fucking the people.
We are all equal, no up or down.
You've convinced me.
I Will wear my pants, with the zipper down, with pride!!
That's not a vision of Jah Jah's kingdom at all.
Jah Jah would laugh at you for not zipping your pants up. Unless you're the pizza crust girl. I'd be willing to over look that. Tea at Roebling's?
So now your just bitching you can't get the job you want.
? directed at me? not really bitching, everything I say I'm prepared to defend.... I DON'T WANT a "job". What are you not getting?
Not even a kwame job?
There are jobs, there are just less jobs than usual. If you keep applying and work hard to get a job, you can. Do not give up. Many people in this protest wish to see corporations and banks with less money, which will leave even less jobs for you.
no one can live on $8/hr.... corporations and banks got us into this mess.
Mikey D's is paying $14.95 in Manhatten. That's not bad, if can commute off island.
"I see a lot of you complaining that you can't afford to live in the style you would like to. Many of you want the rich to pay for you. "
Where did you see this? Do you have a link to something that shows this?
http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/
well I just looked that tumblr. The first picture says they are already working two full time jobs and barely making ends meet. It doesn't say they want to "live in a certain style". It says they work hard and paid more taxes than GE did last year. They don't need to apply for jobs as you suggest. They already have jobs. What do you think about that?
You express the type of resentment that you have been conditioned to feel by your masters. Divide and conquer is their strategy and it has worked with you!
I see a lot of you complaining that you can't afford to live in the style you would like to.
no thats not what we want. Logical fallacy, grow a brain.
Many of you want the rich to pay for you. No not at all. Just trying to get rid of the people that are corrupting our system. get a friggin clue.
Stop protesting and destroying jobs by ruining the economy. Thats not happening nor do you have any proof of that you fucking liar
Stop hurting the middle class by "attempting" to cause chaos on Wall Street as the middle class owns more than half the stocks in America.
Oh the poor middle class! poor poor middle class!
Stop wasting your time whining about not having money and go apply to some jobs.
You just don't get the fact that our jobs are leaving the us do you? oh but of course you dont get jack shit do you? god I fucking despise people like you.
What’s YOUR occupation?!!!
What’s YOUR occupation?!!!
i have a job and pay taxes but this is why not, sorry its a little harder to find work when your over-taxed under-educated, over-worked, under-paid plus debt, inflation, interest rates, insurances, taxes. it becomes harder to get to the third world nations where all our jobs went to work in the sweat shop factories of American corporations but im sure the cost of living is cheaper there so 17cents a day might just be enough. wake up and get with the program these are all tax-payers protesting are you blind and deaf? cause you could have fooled me if your not. We are the world and we will be victorious. dont be scared, be prepared. and go sell crazy somewhere else, we are all stocked up here. thanks for playing.
Let's see, we have high unemployment because there are more unemployed people than there are jobs. So the answer is that people who protest a corrupt system should go out and apply for jobs. According to that logic, people who are sick should just get better.
"Experience declares that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can think of no milder term to apply to ... the general prey of the rich on the poor." -- Thomas Jefferson
Your arguement is defeated by one sentence: "Is it not fair that we all play by the same rules?" 99%of us do, 1% seem to have no rules, or morals, at all.
BTW, I do have a job,40+ hours a week, for a state agency. I pay property, school and sales tax's as well as ever rising fees for driver licenses, vehicle registration etc......and haven't had a raise in 3 years......know many CEO's whose wages/salaries are the same now as 3 years ago?
Your arguement is defeated by one sentence: "Is it not fair that we all play by the same rules?" 99%of us do, 1% seem to have no rules, or morals, at all.
BTW, I do have a job,40+ hours a week, for a state agency. I pay property, school and sales tax's as well as ever rising fees for driver licenses, vehicle registration etc......and haven't had a raise in 3 years......know many CEO's whose wages/salaries are the same now as 3 years ago?
"Many of you want the rich to pay for you."
This is such a typical Tea Party comment. There is no economic crisis. There is no lack of employment opportunities. There is no economic inequality and no problem that lower taxes and lower government spending can't cure. All the protesters have to do is fill out a few job apps and everything will be fine. There is mass protest spreading across the nation and this is your response? You're pathetic.
I know where you are coming from. I am a small business owner. However, do not pride yourself in paying taxes. I collect taxes on my employees add to the bag and pass it to the IRS. Because of this abuse and cost to me I have investigated our monetary system, you know they do not teach it in school. Your taxes are used to pay a forever increasing interest burden that will never be satisfied. Your taxes will slowly go up and the value of your paper bank notes will quickly go down. You will not notice it until it is too late. this is your gentle wake up nudge. You only get a few and then we leave you sleeping.
I don't think everyone is playing by the same rules. Neither do most of the people protesting I think.
FYI: democracy was not handed out to the people on a silver plater. If the World was only filled with proud tax payers such as yourself, we'd still be a British colony. And that mister is a simple fact.
LOL! My resume is PUBLIC, my UI applications were consistently FILLED BEYOND the minimum job application requirement of 4 apps per week AND (INSERT DRUMROLL HERE) daily cold calls AND in person soliciting for even ENTRY LEVEL work REVEALS that BUSINESSES cannot HIRE because THEY ARE HURTING TOO! This is EVERYBODY'S PROBLEM and WE ARE ALL HURTING TOGETHER! PS:Anyone who has been in the work force long enough AND started their own business KNOWS that the top 1% do not pay the same PERCENTAGE of their EARNINGS as the 'LOWER CLASSES' (those of us who earn LESS THAN $50K as individuals and as businesses less than $250K per year) we also KNOW that the top 1% CONSISTENTLY have access to accountants and attorneys both here and abroad to maximize loopholes in the tax code to legally lower their taxes to minimal amounts and many times to Zero!
We the People are Awake! Do Not Ignore US because what befalls the least of us eventually befalls ALL of US!
LOL! My resume is PUBLIC, my UI applications were consistently FILLED BEYOND the minimum job application requirement of 4 apps per week AND (INSERT DRUMROLL HERE) daily cold calls AND in person soliciting for even ENTRY LEVEL work REVEALS that BUSINESSES cannot HIRE because THEY ARE HURTING TOO! This is EVERYBODY'S PROBLEM and WE ARE ALL HURTING TOGETHER! PS:Anyone who has been in the work force long enough AND started their own business KNOWS that the top 1% do not pay the same PERCENTAGE of their EARNINGS as the 'LOWER CLASSES' (those of us who earn LESS THAN $50K as individuals and as businesses less than $250K per year) we also KNOW that the top 1% CONSISTENTLY have access to accountants and attorneys both here and abroad to maximize loopholes in the tax code to legally lower their taxes to minimal amounts and many times to Zero!
We the People are Awake! Do Not Ignore US because what befalls the least of us eventually befalls ALL of US!
And notice these guys do not even try to respond to me at all. They were sent here by Bortz, Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh, the Koch Brothers, Sarah Palin, Eric Cantor or some other right wing Nazi to disrupt a great movement. Ignore them and send them back to the Tea Party.
Unbelievable! where are you coming from a far out planet not yet discovered! I'm shocked to read such stupidity my friend, you're saying "stop whining and apply for a job"? Why the fuck do you thing people are protesting, because they wanna hang out? I have a foreign language degree and speak three language with experience and I can't find a job nowadays in my field, I just jump from one lousy job to another. I have been sending applications all over the place and nothing! Just keep watching tv and enjoy your stay at delusional planet! Don't even bother writing such senseless crap!!!!!!!!
I'm tired of comparing our lives to a third world country. The people of these third world countries don't have huge debts hanging over them. You need to understand the difference between a JOB and a Career.
It's amazing that after hearing all the bitching and moaning about unemployment for the last two and a half years the common knee jerk response to all this seems to be "Get a job."
Hypocrisy? Or ignorance with no sense of irony?
You be the judge.
we are all in the same system, that's right: the system is a foreclosure machine, by creating money for loan but not for interests everthing is moving to the banks - sooner or later!
I have a Masters Degree and a Certificate in GIS, work two part time jobs, bartend on the weekends to make ends meet barely, and work an 30 hr/week unpaid internship for a City Govt. during the week since January......I have applied to over 140 jobs since 2009.
I'm not whining, I am fucking pissed off.....especially at assholes who blame people with no opportunities out there. Take the silver spoon out of your ass and try and relate to those struggling, but I've wasted enough energy on your bullshit.
Actually, the top 1% controls 50.9% of the Stock market, the top 10% control 90.3%, Those in the 50-90% (for argument's sake, the Middle Class) control 9.3%, and those in the bottom 50% they control a wopping 0.5% of all the Stocks.
We (the 99%) need to understand the issue is NOT "paying your weigh." In economic system where one can excel as much as one pushes his/herself to, all seems fair in love and war right? does not oligarchy follow capitalism and presses the issue of monopolism? did slavery really get abolished or just welcome a broader base on more mental less physical way?
We (the 99%) need to understand the issue is NOT "paying your weigh." In economic system where one can excel as much as one pushes his/herself to, all seems fair in love and war right? does not oligarchy follow capitalism and presses the issue of monopolism? did slavery really get abolished or just welcome a broader base on more mental less physical way?
If the middle class owns more than half the stocks on Wall Street, then I suggest that we all sell those stocks now and invest that money via a local credit union. Your belief that we need Wall Street to achieve or attain financial security is simply their marketing campaigns working. We should all relinquish the faulty notion that the stock market will help average Americans obtain financial security. What will help American obtain financial security is fair access to education, health care, and job-retraining services.
we are not the ones hurting the economy. in fact protesting is good for the economy it moves money. the middle class is being hurt by corporate oligarchy. Not us. Applying for a job in a broken system is like signing up for being a slave. its not a solution. we don't all play byt the same rules- thats the point. being in the same system does not give us the same rules in fact just legally speaking we have a 3 track legal system with different actual rules depending on whether you are poor, middle class, or rich.
we are not the ones hurting the economy. in fact protesting is good for the economy it moves money. the middle class is being hurt by corporate oligarchy. Not us. Applying for a job in a broken system is like signing up for being a slave. its not a solution. we don't all play byt the same rules- thats the point. being in the same system does not give us the same rules in fact just legally speaking we have a 3 track legal system with different actual rules depending on whether you are poor, middle class, or rich.
Stop kidding yourself. Something like 50 % of house holds own no stock at all. 80% of the wealth of the stock market is owned by the richest 10%. Mostly it isn't average working americans who are winning when the stock market goes up and they are probably losing as the things that investors like are workers getting less money and less benefits. Thats the kind of thing that makes a companies stock price increase.
How is it that people coming together and protesting the absence of accountability on wall street becomes the characterization you just threw down on us all as your fox news sponsored rant?
If you think for a second this group efforts has anything to do with the damage that has taken place to the middle class over the last 2 decades... you are out of your mind.
I have a job, I no longer invest in wall street, I work with people who finance small businesses instead. But I'm sick of watching wall street destroy people's wealth who are not informed properly on how to weather shifts in the market by the people they pay fees to for "managing" their investments.
We can not allow deposits for you and me to end up collapsed to risk taking by the 1/2 wits that invariably stumble into positions of power in the finance industry . It is getting dangerous because along with the rocket scientists who have figured out how to make slices of pennies increase in value, and who don't give a shit about us... are working with them... and as a team they have really screwed us this time (programmatic trading now controls the market, it used to be just "all of us" and our brokers, by the way).
As long as it is "OK" for the financial industry to experiment with reality and trigger global financial collapse nothing will be safe. Without their being accountability while they manipulate the politicians we have entrusted with making sure the oversight is in place to prevent overt fraud. De-regulation has set the stage and the right's claim is that even more de-regulation is needed before anything can change?
So here is a direct question to you TaxPayer: Why would you support politicians that allow lobbying to remove the banking and trading safeguards that were in place on the market to prevent risk like what we've seen happen since they were removed?
Why would you believe news media organizations that present conservitive value points of view while the programming of the network promotes anti-social values and shock based reality programming to prevert your children?
Stop and realize its nothing but mis-information designed to devide you against your fellow american.
Please... WAKE UP... START TALKING NOT ARGUING. WORK ON FINDING COMMON GROUND FIRST.
Your family's financial security is being destroyed for you and your children and their kids future is tied up in leveraged debt to china?
What exactly has Washington being doing right for you for the last 10 years that your so ready to lead the "stop the 99%" marching band and yell all the people to go home and get jobs?
If the jobs were there, trust me, people would not be out in the streets demanding change at this scale.
And honestly, stop and realize that the goal of corporate controlled media working so hard to disparage your fellow American in your eyes.
1) shock and awe (over and over) to desensitise us to actual real issues
2) to control the structure of the news disseminated in such a way keep us in conflict with one another... conflict over things that are based on how our brains are wired (conservative vs liberal values) instead of keeping track of what is going on. In other words keep everyone arguing about nonsense while the national coffers were plundered by a war no one figured out how to fund properly for an entire decade.
3) to sell advertising while providing the latest fix for our addictions to conflict and drama that only TV can bring us (well that or a bar fight).
We want accountability and for a fair apportioning of tax burden, not handouts from the rich.
This is a message to all you "trolls,trolltards(love that one) apologists,supporters of the current system etc. I live in a country where I can expect to pay 17%-20% of my income in taxes after deductions. For that I receive healthcare, access to top universities for my children at an affordable rate, security, clean drinking water and most of all a political system mostly free of corporate influence( corporations are not people) . Stop being such selfish pricks and see yourselves as citizens and not taxpayers (big diffference). Look around you. OWS is more than a left or right issue.
EXACTLY!!!
I find this kind of comment so ill-informed. No one wants the rich to "pay" for them. What I dont understand is why people like you keep showing up on the site. I know everyone is allowed to have a say and I want people to see it because I have long believed that the hoped for alliance with the Tea Party is doomed to failure because of this kind of thinking. What I want to know is this: Is the Tea Party so weak, or the right wing in general, that you have come here looking for converts?
I don't know why you would think I consider myself a member of the tea party. I do not consider myself affiliated with them.
We are in NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM all playing by the same rules- you may understand the difference if you leave your bubble and see any other part of the world. The third world doesn't exist because they're inferior, it exists because within the current system humans are allowed to exploit other humans. That's not how most people would like to think of America as being defined as.
I've literally spent YEARS of my life fighting overseas for this country and now that I'm home I can't find a job- please explain to me where in the hell you get off even commenting on the trials, tribulations, and most of all opportunities of other people.
No.....trust me that these guys are worried. They are here as a part of a coordinated effort by right leaning or extreme right wing people. They dont care about the movement, they care about the status quo....but they are scared. Must be or they would be watching football and eating cheese instead.
The rich own a lot. I have far less. The rich need to military to help defend their wealth. They should pry more for their security than I have to. Have them pay more for the military
Yeah America. Why can't you guys just all be rich? DUH! Problem Solved. Alright guys, let's pack it all up. Protests over. TaxPayer has just solved it for us. That's as asinine a solution as going to starving children and say, "why don't you guys try MacDonald's instead of being all hungry and interrupting my soap operas with your commercials?"
Stop whining you danged old hippies... just go out and get job like everyone else so that like everyone else (well 99% of the people in this country, anyway) you can live life as a slave to the dollar. Understand that even though $1000 a month would provide 8000 meals for starving children in this country alone, it can also provide a wealthy inheritor with a set of 4 Lalique crystal decanter wine bottles... and in order to retain wealth, one must always keep up appearances.
The problem with TaxPayer is that they still believe in the "American Dream" when it's been proven that the chances of you starting life as a lower class citizen and retiring a member of the wealthy 1% are lower than your chances of getting all of the powerball numbers and then spontaneously combusting while being simultaneously struck by lightning and attacked by a shark... it just can't happen anymore. Not if things remain the same, anyway. And that's why it's important to support your fellow 99% and demand a respectable standard of living.
I earned my respectable standard of living in a nice area with great schools, healthcare, etc. I play by the rules of the system. I doubt I will ever be in the top 1%, but then again, I don't have to be to have my American Dream, which is a family I can support, and a roof above their heads.
I have a job, (good job) I am lucky. When I started ( twenty years ago), I was one of twenty in my department, and we worked forty hours a week, I had good benefits, plenty of vacation. and sufficient pay. Since 2007 my department has been cut to me, just me. I work, officially sixty hours a week, in reality eighty hours a week. When I took three days vacation for my first grandchild s birth, I answered over three hundred E-mails,on vacation! All of this with only a slight increase in pay.
99%
You're the sucker. You DON'T pay the same amount of taxes...you pay much more. You should be pissed at the 1%
I do not pay the same amount. I pay much less when you look at a dollar figure. How would you feel about a flat $1000 tax fee for all citizens? No loopholes. Pay it or go to jail. I doubt you'd like it, but we would all be contributing the same amount, wouldn't we?
i have a menial job granted i didnt go to college either..my parents couldnt pay for it and i didnt want to take out a student because 60% of students who go to college dont find jobs in that field or so ive heard must do more research and i dont want to start my life in $40,000 in debt because when/if i get a job ill be working to pay off that loan to banks that fail and cant balance a checkbook...but the point is im employed and i still take the time to go down there not only because the rich basically own the world but because our whole economic system is flawed...keynsian economics sounds good at the beginning but what were seeing now is the beginning of an economic collapse...you can say you dont believe e thats fine but you cant keep printing money without producing goods and expect the country to not fall..im a big believer of austrian economics but i even see flaws in that but not nearly as much as keynes..one thing is for sure idc who you are if youre in the middleclass tax brackets you had to adjust so you can now afford needs instead of wants which there is nothig wrong with that but what is wrong with it was not that it was your personal doing which made you cut back it was this flawed economic theory and the corruption running rampant on wall st..in the government(federal/state) this movement needs to be more clear and have more educated people discussing why we need change if we want people like "meanmckean" (who apparantly is established and supports himself..but my guess is hes an older man who got a job before this recession and has job security) to fully understand the true nature of what could possibly happen..hyper inflation it happened in multiple countries that ran on keyneisian economics and they collapsed and are now in shitholes...fractional reserve banking..headed by a central PRIVATE banking institution is also bad news but it's not like we werent warned basicall 340 years ago by our founding fathers...and its not like a rothschild family member said "give me control of a nations currency and i care not who makes its laws" and it not that woodrow wilson post presidency memoirs apologized to the american people for selling this great nation to a bunch of private bankers(referring to the creation of the federal reserve bank in 1913) rant done
After applying for thousands of Jobs over a three year span, it has become clear that there are no opportunities. You obviously have a job, and therefore it is easy for you to stand on your soap box. However if you lose your job, what song will you be singing then? Most people that are unemployed or underemployed would love to climb the ladder, however, THERE MUST BE A LADDER TO CLIMB!
I would have to move to India to get my job back, and I cannot affoard the plane ticket, passport, or immuninzations I would need.
I dare you to find a worthwhile product that was actually manufactured in america.
War machines. We're great at producing those!
To the OP of the thread, the whole situation is quite a bit more complex than just telling someone to "go get a job." The problem isn't really that there are no jobs (though there are certainly millions fewer than there were pre-2008), the problem is that the jobs that are available have at least one of the following problems:
1) They don't offer health care or other benefits (retirement savings, etc.)
2) They don't pay a livable wage
3) They don't offer pay that will help the earner pay back his/her debts (college loans) in any reasonable amount of time
4) They don't offer any job security, e.g., from the employers doing reckless market-related things and having to layoff thousands of people because they screwed up in the market
5) They don't offer the upward mobility that people in America expect as part of the American dream
Whether you think these things are important or not, they are the facts that millions of Americans these days are facing--not just young people at the protests, but people of all ages, some with decades of experience in their fields.
Further, it's erroneous to assume that none of the protesters have jobs. A good number of them do.
Further still, if you think that you are paying taxes at the same rate as those who make much more than you, you are mistaken, especially since corporations are treated as people in an economic sense. You pay more in taxes than corporations like G.E., Wal-Mart, Google and Apple, which routinely pay between 0% and 10% effective tax rates. You also most likely pay a higher tax rate than the 15% capital gains tax which people lucky enough to make all their income from the stock market pay.
Most likely, you are part of the 99%, too.
It would be completely fair if we all played by the same rules; however, we don't. That's what this protest this about.
Those protestors are working...working at making things right and fair for those who do actually work, create and earn a living decently. We don't live in the same Capitalist America of yesterday. Unemployment is too high and the government is not protecting our inequitable trade agreements with China. Our country only exports jobs. We live in a great country that gives us the right to speak our mind. We can also speak for the world. There is no reason for 3rd world nation's workers to subject themselves to meager conditions that are outlawed in our country. Capitalism continues to exploit human resources abroad. Soon our living standard will be reduced. "Race to the Bottom" as you could say. We can't afford and do not want to pay for the wars. Since when did any country "win" in Afghanistan? We can't fight a war on other's soil. There are really so many wrongs that have been legislated through tax, financial reform, and excessive war initiatives that leave us economically vulnerable. You say get a job but the reality is that those companies that Wall Street represents will just continue to export all of our jobs because the new world capitalism is monopolistic, controlling and actually hampers new ideas and concepts. It has no heart, soul or ethical intent and will continue to eat itself while it pursues short term agendas. It is a much bigger and more important job to fight rather than continue to be a cog in a corrupt system. WE MUST SUPERINTEND
"I see a lot of you complaining that you can't afford to live in the style you would like to. Many of you want the rich to pay for you. How is that fair? I do not see you paying for those in third world countries who have a larger financial gap than even you and the top 1%."
I don't understand why the few are the only ones allowed to have money either
"Stop protesting and destroying jobs by ruining the economy. Stop hurting the middle class by "attempting" to cause chaos on Wall Street as the middle class owns more than half the stocks in America."
the top 1% own 43% of the wealth in the country
"Go out there and apply for a job. Don't complain about being unable to get a job if you are using your time to march on Wall Street or post to this forum."
I'm right here. Do you have a job proposal for me to consider?
"I for one am happy to pay my taxes, at the same rate as those who make much more than me. Is it not fair that we all play by the same rules? We are all in the same system, after all."
I have no problem with my taxes.
"Stop wasting your time whining about not having money and go apply to some jobs."
thank you for taking the time to post this
I have looked for a job, applied in every state in the west, some in trhe south. we live in a system that feeds of failue of peoples life, and we are confornted by simple minded bigots who pray upon a class of people.come on face it failed economic policies and corporate ethics have almost destroyed the once great industrial technological strength that enabled all Americans prosperity, fight to hold onto it as the will of the people tear down your greed, Debt is not an asset....
I have looked for a job, applied in every state in the west, some in trhe south. we live in a system that feeds of failue of peoples life, and we are confornted by simple minded bigots who pray upon a class of people.come on face it failed economic policies and corporate ethics have almost destroyed the once great industrial technological strength that enabled all Americans prosperity, fight to hold onto it as the will of the people tear down your greed, Debt is not an asset....
40 hours a week at minimum wage will allow you to barely scrape by if you need to pay for an apartment, food, school loans, a car, health insurance, basic supplies for life and try to save a little bit for emergencies and retirement. I don't agree with the socialist leaning of some people, but I do agree something needs to be done. Full time at minimum wage should be enough to support someone, and that's if you're lucky to get a full time job.
I've supported myself the past two years on a part time job, picking up an extra job for a few months, and started my own used book business to earn a few hundred extra dollars a year. I had to forgo health insurance because I made too much to qualify for medicaid. I couldn't afford a car and so I walked two miles a day through two winters in north country new york in the bitter cold to a job that worked me just under full time so they didn't have to pay benefits and would threaten to fire me if I even tried to call in sick once in a while. Also, I was putting as much money as I could manage toward school loans.
I scraped by and I even managed to put away money for school and now I'm back in school working on a degree. You can do it. I did it. But it shouldn't be that way. I would not want anyone to have to go through that. Rent costs here have gone up $100 in most places the past year or two, but no one makes any more.
I have applied in Canada, in every western city in the USA, in Alabama for production and for It, for general labor, etc,,, We live in a system that feeds off failed lifes, and are confronted by a minority that seems to want to be furious that we do want to work but can not get hired, where are all the job creationist that the current congress is protecting from any tax increases, in China where a vast majority of manufacturer jobs went for profit motives, ie,, General Motors
I have applied in Canada, in every western city in the USA, in Alabama for production and for It, for general labor, etc,,, We live in a system that feeds off failed lifes, and are confronted by a minority that seems to want to be furious that we do want to work but can not get hired, where are all the job creationist that the current congress is protecting from any tax increases, in China where a vast majority of manufacturer jobs went for profit motives, ie,, General Motors
Have you tried applying for a job? Because I have news for you, nobody's hiring. Nobody. If you bothered to actually look at the people in this movement - as opposed to just throwing around assumptions spoon fed to you from the media - you would know that "most people" here are just trying to keep a roof over their heads, food on their table, and receive treatment for medical problems. These are not "lifestyle" issues, they are human rights issues.
The poor standard of living in many third world countries that you allude to is often the direct result of the iron grip finance capital has on this country and the global economy.
You ask us to stop "destroying jobs by ruining the economy", but this is misdirected - if you'd been paying attention, you would direct this comment at Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan, Bank of America, and the other corporate frauds and banksters that have been driving the economy into the ground for 99% of the population even as they make off with record profits and the government can't seem to hand them enough money.
Also, guess what? We are all taxpayers too. And we're sick of our tax money being used to feed corporate greed instead of meet people's needs. We're sick of money being sent to blow up children overseas instead of investing in our children's education. We're sick of watching our country be destroyed for the sake of a tiny parasitic class at the top.
In short, please dislodge your head from your rectum, good sir, and look around you.
LOL.....The problem is they dont care. Fox sent them here.
your making comments against class warfare, this isn't a movement for class warfare. 99% aren't jobless and looking for a hand out, a very small percentage are.
I have a job
The rich benefit from a system of trademarks, patents, and copywrite law enforced by courts, police and prisons. I want the rich to pay for that system.
The rich have a very expensive military protecting their assests and their trade routes. They do not serve. I want them to pay for that military. I want them to pay for the health care of those that serve. Police protect their houses. I want them to pay for that.
I'm a taxpayer....and I suppose by some standards financially secure. I would have to be brain dead not to see the inequity in justice and economics raging not only in the US but around the world. OWS is all about trying to find a way to induce equity.....although that may be an impossible dream if there are many like TaxPayer who do not see a problem. There really are no jobs, at least not the kind that a young couple could count on to raise a family or purchase health insurance. I have watched a lot of people lose their homes, retirement and dignity to this economic chaos that some people don't seem to see. And of course they should march and participate in OWS....sir that is not whining it is taking action....and that is what all Americans should be doing.
Which congressman do you work for?
Too bad, you don't even realize how brainwashed you are. So you have a little and think you will be the boss someday? Be admitted to the big boy's club? They laugh at you harder than they laugh at us.
How can you afford a smartphone and nice cloths if you don't a job? Are you a live off your working parents, that just happened working for a corporation?
Actually most of them had aplly for jobs!!! xd , that is one the cause they are there.....
Or maybe they just what the end of war. Not all the people is asking for jobs.
or an education
what jop?
In many states, a good many jobs(what jobs there are) do not pay living wages.Moreover, many jobs today are only temporary. And if you do follow the news, you will realize that we are in the midst of a national jobs crisis right now. The bottom line moreover is that "the game" in this country is rigged in favor of the VERY rich(and I refer to the top 1% specifically when making that statement).
Wanted brain-dead robots to do whatever we say as we rape the land in the name of progress. Apply at your local military recruitment station. Learn how to kill and destroy in the name of profits. Learn how to support American interests (i.e. corporate interests) while destroying indigenous people and foreign lands. See how good you have it while traveling the back roads of the world with the massive killing brigades we have formed in the name of freedom. Enlist now, many openings available for those who don't care about how they make it in this world.
What about the many of us that do have jobs but see injustice everywhere? I have a job. I also pay my taxes. But i realize that this world is not a just one. That is why we are all here. Do you really think that everyone has an equal opportunity to rise to the top? I'm sure then that you do not work in the social services industry as I do and understand that life is not that simple. If inequality didn't still exist in the minds of the people and the systems that they work for, then I would 100% agree with you. However, that's not the case. I worked in human resources and hired people for numerous financial institutions and hedge funds, as well as city and other private companies, and know from experience that NONE of these organizations was truly unbiased in hiring practices. NONE of them provide equal wages. Women still make 71 cents to the dollar. Where does that leave women who are raising a family by themselves? You can blame the fathers but that doesn't help the children who are left disadvantaged. Do you want us to tell children that the reason they can’t afford an education and then later find a job is because of something they had absolutely no control over? Is that really the American Dream?
I was born into a good family, was given a good public education because of where I grew up, and always had support because my parents were there. This is the reason I was able to succeed. My society gave me something to put me ahead. Now I just think that myself, and people like me, should give back to the world that put us on top. Just a little bit.
Things aren't fair. Everyone knows the world isn't fair. So wouldn't it be good then to provide some of the victims of the institutionalized discrimination to have a little bit extra because they literally cannot get the same things you have. Is it so bad that maybe we at least allow these people to raise their kids normally to break the cycle of poverty? How much are people really asking the top 1% to give up in wealth to afford so much opportunity to others? For the top 1% they could easily burn that money and still own a ferrari. For the bottom 20% it means they can feed their family. The world isn't that simple and these simple ideologies are leaving millions of people unemployed and broke. There are so many other reasons why there are so many of us who are employed and still support this movement. Just think outside of your box and expand your view of the world.
@TaxPayer.
yeah, I should just stop complaining, and apply for a job.
Actually, I have been applying for jobs. I'm college educated, graduated top in my class, spent the last few years in middle-management, and currently using my laptop wifi to apply for jobs FROM THE PARK.
you are a fucking moron.
P.S. as it seems it's been awhile since you had to apply for a job, you probably don't know what "craigslist" is. Craigslist is a site that posts lots of spam-- and some jobs.
I wake up with my husband at 3am, exercise, work on music, apply for jobs when he leaves for work at 7am. I apply for jobs from 7am until he returns from work at about 6pm.
so, I AM working roughly 12 hours a day.... trying to get a job.
what the fuck are you doing for 12 hours a day? oh, paying taxes.
yeah, I don't do that, since I'm a protester. I got no tax money back last year, despite paying into the system, and everytime I buy anything I'm taxed.
nope. no taxes here. I am just a no-tax paying asshole hippy, an over-privileged, under-educated whiner.
When you are made completely obsolete by someone else (or machine) I truly hope you have the balls to recant.
What is your degree and where did you go to school?
I change and adapt with the system. IF you are applying for jobs 11 hours a day and haven't found one, it is time to change something in a major way. Go to offices, start your own business, try something other than being on this site (which you are on between the hours of 7am and 6pm, by the way).
Exactly right, its time to change something in a major way. Hence the protests. There are simply not enough jobs for everyone!
The demand for human labor is decreasing. The unemployment rate is going to continue rising. We need to accept the fact that we are going to have structural unemployment and change our system to accommodate those changes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Z8TR4ToNs
After so many centuries of industrialization, this seems hard to believe. In any case, I don't believe it's happening now. Think of how many specialty counters at Wal-Mart go permanently unmanned, even though you know that costs them customers. Think of how many "outstanding" NIH applications go unfunded. How many people in need of health care go without. How many bridges are falling apart. How many people are reduced to cursing under their breath at a phone tree. The Singularity is not nigh. The resources we need to hire people go somewhere else - the wars, the prisons, the international drug trade, and of course, the very wealthy and their investments abroad. But people have lots of work to do, if we could afford to pay them.
The industrialization now is mostly computerized and advanced robotics, the past industrialization was fairly primitive considering what we have now. I think we need to stop thinking in terms of jobs and start thinking in terms of sustainability. Stop thinking in terms of money and start thinking in terms of resources. I agree that the money we have is being spent on worthless things, but I think it's an overall sign of our system failing. War, the war on drugs, etc are looked at as being profitable while hiring labor isn't increasing efficiency enough to be profitable. If it was, companies would be hiring. Companies have cost-efficiency models that they use to determine if spending money on labor is worth it, and they are finding out that it's not, so they are not hiring. We need a new system. It's a somewhat hard concept to grasp, but if we can admit to ourselves that we are not needed as much to run our society (private and public), we can start to figure out sustainability. CNN had a good editorial on jobs being obsolete recently. http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/09/07/rushkoff.jobs.obsolete/
That is an interesting editorial and I'd recommend it. In the context of 9% unemployment - which seems likely only to rise in the next decade - we should consider other options. But I would be inclined to start small and ask what went wrong with the French 35-hour workweek. That reform was supposed to fix their high unemployment, but so far as I understand it wasn't really effective and they backtracked from it substantially. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/35-hour_workweek as a starting point)
Interesting link! It seems like companies still didn't have an incentive to hire others after the workweek was shortened.
Apply for a job? I graduated last year with a business degree from an accredited university and have still yet to find a career. Throughout this time, I've applied to hundreds if not thousands of positions and they are well within expertise as I look for primarily entry-level positions. I will also mention that I've been employed part-time throughout college.
This is the reality for most of us here and the truth is that all these people protesting are doing so on your behalf. For too long, you Mr. Tax Payer, have had your labor exploited and been under the illusion that your hard-work is being properly used. We've become slaves to the wages our employers provide us which by no means represent the true value of the labor we give them.
You pay your taxes; great! However, aren't you a bit concerned at where that 'money' you give goes? I like you assumed that it's always been properly used, to improve on governmental practices and improve the quality of education in our schools. I wish this was true, but it isn't. This is why we should all be concerned and finally making our voices heard. If anything this is a fight for you and your family along with the entire middle-class and anyone else not part of the power elite.
This has nothing to do with the middle class. Disrupting wall street is more likely to affect the middle class than anyone else. They are the middle income workers. They get hit when corporations get hit. The super rich and large corporations already have enough money to survive if everything hits the fan.
Thats true. Fox will survive. At least you wont have to worry about changing your channel.
Money won't be worth anything if everything hits the fan. The rich are heavily dependent on consistency especially amongst spending in order to maintain their lifestyles.
The truth of the matter is that the evolution of capitalism turned that America you speak of into the one we live in today. The continuous need for "more" which if anything has been pushed by our government over the past century has fueled a society that is no longer interested in the state of the community but rather the state of the individual. I try to be an optimist, but when you look all over the country, let alone the world, it's hard not to notice how widespread corruption has become. Perhaps it's on us just as much it is on them for we were so naive to believe that putting so much power in the hands of very few would lead to anything but corruption. Based on the current structure, the middle-class in this nation will continue to be exploited unless some sort of radical change occurs.
I personally blame the government for the lack of local community. It is the government that is taking over the role of local community by being the one to turn to when in need. Not your family, not your church, not your community, your government.
Why should someone be concerned with the "state of the community" if the government is going to play that role?
Where have YOU been for the past 5 years? THEY AIN'T NO JOBS BABY.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Z8TR4ToNs
Jobs aren't coming back. We need to change our system! The Venus Project isn't perfect but has some good ideas. http://www.thevenusproject.com/
I make a 125,000 dollars a year, have a doctorate, and I won't be having kids or buying a house any time soon. Credit card debt? Almost none. Auto loan debt? Modest car I bought new for 19000. Most of my income goes towards my student loans...and the student loans my parents took out under their name for me.
Oh....and I work in healthcare. So my job is probably going to disappear if Tea Part Republicans have their way with our healthcare system. Just another student loan saddled doctorate looking for work...
Point is...even the relatively well off...the people like me. We are struggling. My struggles are not even that great and my income is much larger than most people's incomes. That the majority of my student loans are saddled with a 6.5% when I was able to refinance my auto loan for 3.6 and my girlfriend got a car at 1.9%.
That is an excellent point! Just as the government offers programs and supports home loan modifications with favorable interest rates, there should be a student loan modification that offers you the same.
I'm sorry about your student loan debt. You should go tell the police who forced you into those loans and then see if you can have them arrested. Obviously you wouldn't complain about them if you yourself chose to accept that responsibility.
He IS being responsible. I am sure when a healthcare professional works on you...you are comforted to know they have made the ultimate investment in his education. My son wanted to be a doctor and when he volunteered at the hospital the doctors told him NOT to be a doctor - to just sell pharmaceuticals. Poster is really just showing his own frustration with a system that is not working for many. Get with it...really!
Not every tax payer pays the same amount of taxes... It is economic inequality that has many people upset. Companies were given large amounts of money to 'bail' them out. Which was our tax dollars. Whats wrong with wanting a 'bail out' of our own? The main difference I see here is now the poor are asking for help instead of the rich asking for help. It's time to return the favor.
It is not enough just for the poor to get a bailout. Simple redistribution of wealth will only lead to the same situation happening in the future. The basis of our society must be shifted from wealth to community.
I agree. There needs to be a change in policies to protect the distribution of wealth. At the same time there needs to be a way to balance the distribution of wealth.
//Is it not fair that we all play by the same rules?//
Yes, it is, and under the Obama and Bush administrations it has been shown that everyone is not playing by the same rules, which is the problem. As economic power goes into fewer and fewer hands, and given there is a direct translation of economic power into political power, our political system represents the interest of fewer and fewer people. This, is the issue at hand.
See Greenwald on what he calls "the two-tiered justice system" for example http://tiny.cc/rsutk
Another example of the "two-tiered" system is the following:
Corporations currently have about $1.4 trillion in revenues abroad that IS NOT TAXED, and they want to bring it back to the US with the caveat that it is taxed at 5% and not the corporate rate of 35%. Can you keep your income abroad untaxed? No, you can't.
This might be great advice for one person, but the present system has maintained a steady 9% official unemployment rate for years now. There will always be somebody with lots of time to march on Wall Street. The only solution that can work for everyone is to fight the circumstances that create this unemployment.
The current philosophy is to throw out trillions of dollars to banks and hope that somehow, magically, it will "trickle down". The 1% is feted as "job creators", though the companies hold on to their record profits and create no jobs, then look for ways to send the ones they have out of the country.
I say, next time we have a trillion dollars to hand out in zero-interest loans, let's hand it out to ordinary people, not the big banks. Let's fund worker owned cooperatives all over the country, and hire as many business people as we need to provide expert advice to get them up and running healthily. Cooperatives don't close up shop to move to Indonesia, they don't go on strike, there's no need for two hierarchies of union and company management at odds with each other. At their best - not always reached - they are democracy, not dictatorship. Democracy is a good idea in government, why shouldn't it be a good idea in business?
I like your point about job creators. Had quite the rant about it myself. http://occupywallst.org/forum/job-creators-my/
Dont forget that about 10% of the population is incarcerated bump that 9% up to 19%
It's not really 10%, but 1% is bad enough! While in many ways they do count as a permanent unemployment statistic dragging down the economy, the one thing they won't be doing is attending Occupy Wall Street.
And the way that the 9% is calculated is somewhat fraudulent, the real unemployment rate is estimated at being somewhere between 16% and 21%.
I completely stand behind your position on not throwing money at corporations when it has proven time and time again to not produce any positive results.
Amen TaxPayer.....You actually get it! Someday these folks will actually wakeup and channel their anger towards something more fitting ...lke their Parents or lack there of.
I am on my 3rd martini - how about you?
Amen TaxPayer.....You actually get it! Someday these folks will actually wakeup and channel their anger towards something more fitting ...lke their Parents or lack there of.
I am on my 3rd martini - how about you?