Forum Post: Why aren't the OWS moderated against this Right Wing Garbage?
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 3, 2011, 9:06 p.m. EST by Jaqueline
(164)
from New York, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
It's not called censorship, it's called disinfectant. We know that since 2001 the NSA and FBI and CIA and Military intelligence have all gotten into the game of disrupting open freedom seeking movements such as OWS.
And we know that the most cost effective way to disempower and diminish the effectiveness of open movements is by infiltrating and attacking the open forums such as these.
It is very dangerous to allow this filth to take over these forums like they quite obviously have here. Young people who might not be so aware of such techniques might get a very wrong impression of this movement because it seems there is more of this right wing filth on there than there is REAL posts about real issues.
This is the people's forums NOT the dumping ground of the NSA, FBI, CIA and military intelligence and whatever other organizations that the US Intelligence agencies subcontract this kind of work out to.
Right now the OWS movement is THE BIGGEST THREAT to the entrenched right wing, and that is why they are spending a massive effort to undermine this forum and this movement. Please contact the various working groups and demand a moderation process for this Forum or you will that they will very much be able to successfully drown out our message under a tsunami of distracting and disgusting disinformation. There is no way that this much right wing garbage is coming naturally, this is the result of a coordinated effort by the intelligence services and their various think tanks and subcontractors. Lets do the right thing and DISINFECT.
and check out http://www.voxnews.com
There's a lot of information about what's going on - let's clean up the forum and get on the right track.
Because they're checkmated. If they allow them in it pollutes the forum....if they filter, then they're accused of hypocrisy and suppressing free speech.
Because having right wing views is not trolling, and Leftists are always the first to cry for censorship when they hear something thst isn't a part of their own agenda.
Seriously, do you really think that just because someone is "right wing", it doesn't mean they don't support the OWS? The OWS' goal is to stop corporate and political greed and corruption, not a pro-leftist wealth redistribution circlejerk. if you like wealth redistribution, then move to Canada, more specifically, Ontario. there's tonnes of taxes and wealth redistribution there, so a lefty will feel right at home there. You would hate Alberta,though, because there's actually half-decent paying jobs and low taxes, and not quite as taxy and spendy for a leftist.
and nice try. When you're stifling opposing views, it's censorship.
i think your right din365 it seems on a open forum you should be able to express your views left or right. i always thought it was about pressuring the gov't to take action against these financial people who have taken advantage of average earning citizens,not against wealthy/successful people who we used to as a nation admire for attaining "The American Dream"
Yes but spamming a person running for POTUS is spam plain and simple.
[Removed]
There is, in any society, always a class war ongoing. The only things that keeps one side from getting the upper hand over the other is the meritocratic system within the economy and a progressive tax structure.
Over the past 30 years, both legs of this foundation have been lost in America. Idiots could destroy good companies and still walk away with a fortune while engineers and teachers cling to some semblance of employment.
If you view the world through left or right wings then you are purposefully ignoring some aspects of reality.
The Mod Team has posted MODERATING POLICIES which require the suppression of TROLLING.
So WHY are these perfectly rational policies not being enforced?
9-11 conspiracy theories are also being left alone. By the moderators at least. Seriously though, this is a community effort. Why don't you apply to be a moderator?
Disinfect, that sounds kind like what the Khmer Rouge did in Cambodia (one of those wonderful communist experiments I hear so much about in these forums). You coming from the same perspective? No opinions allowed other than the party sanctioned views. No dissent allowed.
I say it almost sounds hitleresque. "Purify" the Aryan race is what hitler called killing 6 million jews.
You can't use ENGLISH words to describe German acts. Duh. Sic him Jackie! Bite him girl!
the khmer Rouge speak Cambodian, they don't use English words like disinfect. get a brain.
Did I say that is what they said or what they did. Maybe you should actually read rather than just react.
"Did I say that is what they said or what they did. Maybe you should actually read rather than just react."
I just read it..
It seems like you said that's what they "did", which either implies that you advocate genocide (ya sick fuck) or that you don't advocate disinfectant (ya dirty fuck).
Grow up and discuss things like an adult, not some 15 year old. One of the things I've found is that no one on the left can complete a sentence with our saying fuck. Again, if you could actual comprehend a sentence, I said that is what they did as a criticism, as in most of the communist regimes have committed crimes similar to the Khmer Rouge. When the power is centralized in a singular power like this, this is the normal result.
"Again, if you could actual comprehend a sentence, I said that is what they did as a criticism"
Again, you're claiming that YOU think what they did was DISINFECT. YOU are claiming GENOCIDE was an act of DISINFECTING! Therefore, YOU are the one that views GENOCIDE as something positive.
Wow, Barney Frank was right, arguing with some people is like arguing with a kitchen table.
"Wow, Barney Frank was right, arguing with some people is like arguing with a kitchen table."
Sounds like he knows you.
Very catchy, you forgot to say fuck 5 times.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The word Rouge is French for crying out loud! So apparently they spoke THAT.
It never even crossed your mind that perhaps Daveindenver might not speak Cambodian. Did it?
oh my god i am really wasting my time with a fucking total DUNCE. (who thinks he's bright but is a DULLARD)
OK Dufus heres a lesson on how language works and a history lesson as well. The Khmer Rouge is a name that THE WEST CALLED THEM (you fucking pea brained dufus) They called themselves the Communist Party of Kammpuchea (now I know you are so fucking dumb that you are going to go to google or wikipedia and try to have a comeback and so I already know what mistake such a pea brain imbecile like you is going to make so I am going to post my response to your mistake BEFORE YOU MAKE IT on another board and then when you make the mistake I predict you will make than I will demonstrate what an imbecile you are.) but I'm starting to be a little embarrassed that I am wasting so much time with you because I now know that you really are just some dumb guy and really not in the same league intellectually so I may just let you argue with yourself.
i am with on this one - i fall into the trap too often also but the best thing is to ignore these people. we should talk to those who will listen and have a reasonable conversation. do not censor the trouble makers just by pass them and they will go away. seems to me that too many of these people just want to make trouble. if you were in the park when it was working - there were some who made no sense - they had their take on things and did not want to hear facts that would contradict what they believe - they are not worth wasting time on - use your time wisely - you can remind me of what i said when you see me doing the same thing - the worst punishment in any regard is to be ignored - maybe we need to work a list or some such to figure out who is to be shunned! i have a few people in mind right now!
we know where the disinfectant needs to be sent.
But...but...the words "Communist" and "Party" and "of" are ENGLISH. Please explain to my pea sized brain why in the hell the Cambodians used ENGLISH words to describe themselves?????? Especially since you already PROVED that they wouldn't use the English words like disinfect? Please oh great one! It makes no sense! Why oh why didn't they use Cambodian terms like Khmer Krahom instead? I'm sooooooooo stupid.Help me out!
Now quick! din365 just used the word "purify" when referencing Hitler. Surely the Germans wouldn't use an English word like PURIFY either!
OH! And to the BATCAVE! Someone recently started a thread proposing that OWS demonstrates in suits and ties! The operatives have fully infiltrated! They are going public without shame! They must be stopped!
You fell into my trap you dim shitwad. ALL translations between languages that DO NOT SHARE THE SAME CHARACTERS are in fact TRANSLITERATIONS and are done so Phonetically because that is the ONLY way it can be done - it is completely subjective you dumb shit.
(and if you are actually trying to CONvince anyone that you know that SLIGHTEST thing about cambodia or it's language or culture by your comment about the term "Khmer Krahom" and instead didn't just go googling around to save your obviously uneducated DUMB ASS than your dishonesty is pretty plain to see. You're not fooling anyone here you dumb pig.
But now that you've sprung your trap, let me point out what an idiot you actually are. Again. (Your stupidity is only exceeded by your arrogance)
If Daveindenver speaks English, and his audience speaks English-it's LOGICAL for him to use an ENGLISH word that would convey the same meaning as whatever the Cambodians would use. He was trying to convey MEANING-not spelling or sound. Thus the word "disinfect" in indeed the translation into ENGLISH of whatever the hell the word written in Cambodian would be. I'll freely admit I don't speak Cambodian nor would I have the foggiest clue how to get my laptop to produce Cambodian characters.
You ALSO produced the translations-not the transliterations, of whatever the hell the Cambodians called themselves in their own language when you used the terms "Khmer Rouge" (french translation) and "They called themselves the Communist Party of Kammphuchea" (English translation) You used both the FRENCH and ENGLISH words that convey the same MEANING in French and English that the Cambodian words would convey in Cambodian.
Transliteration is taking the sounds produced by the letters of one language, and producing the same sounds using the letters that produce the same sounds in another language. For example, the word chicken written in Cambodian letters-is something I cannot produce here. But those characters-transliterated into English letters that sound the same as the Cambodian characters they represent would be the letters m,o,a, and h. They would sound like "mo"-as in mow and "la" as in law said together as "mo-ah". The English TRANSLATION of the Cambodian word that sounds like mo-ah when it is TRANSLITERATED would be "chicken" in English.
Sooooooo unless the phonetic equivalent (the transliteration) of the Cambodian letters for whatever the hell they called themselves produce the exact same sounds as the English letters used to spell the words "Communist Party of Kammpuchea" your freaking TRAP backfired and the only one who should be ashamed here is YOU.
ha ha ha guess who just spent an hour or two on google - YOU ... sucker
it sucks to have to be taking on schroedingers trolls that are some of them paid by the USA government, fer sure.
whats needed to bring order to the forum is intellectual focus. its not about what you don't do its about what you do. We have to get busy, and the not busy will stand out as the junk.
the forum does need drastic moderation, but that would best be done after we design a meta process to be good and kind and neutral andmake sure our moderators are educated, or it backfires. the point of a very open forum like this is that it does operate as a genuine safe guard for freedom of speech. Most of the people here talking smack are not genuine. but some percent of the skeptics ARE listening.
The game is on. Can you spread information faster and smarter than engage with trolls?
Can you organize information between yourselves in these conversations ahead of the troll game? we all have to teach ourselves recognition of the games, in order to transcend them. We have to see through the con scams in order to not fall prey. This is an educational process.
the more time and energy we dedicate to real education the more real power we will have together to hold the forum no matter what legions of paid trolls they send at us.
if we fail to get back into important tools like formal logic and NVC, then, those lines will prove harder and harder to hold.
Some days out here i feel like i am doing it all alone still.
It matters; because its a more genuine reflection of the consensus of the 99 percent. left and right have to bicker somewhere... its your job not to fall down and make a fool of yourself on either side; and let the fools self identify.. or, sometimes take the time to correct false information and turn it into a learning opportunity.. but make sure to do your own homework then.. and have a mean lean presentation...
clean the forum best by focusing all of us on lucid right action and consensus and community building tools.
I do not consider myself a troll, but I do think the FED needs a complete overhaul or some drastic re-visioning! We should create a monetary system that is less manipulated by banks big business and government! And I am also for the reduction in the size and scope of government in general!
So am I a troll? Should I take some troll antibiotics and post you in the morning?
agreed, end the fed bank, have congressional banks print the money as it says in THE Constitution.
Why do you think it is intelligence agencies, and not political groups supported financially by the wealthy, that are paying the trolls in this forum?
And, I don't let the trolls bother me. They win if you let them bother you.
An important distinction.
YOU don't let the trolls bother you, "beautifulworld" - and of course, that's good. But what about Joe Average, who comes to this forum out of curiosity and sympathy for the Movement, but is TURNED OFF by this chaotic, troll-infested site and swears he'll never come back?
I think "Jaqueline" is speaking very eloquently and convincingly for the AVERAGE user here, not for the intellectuals who may have many years of experience on forums and have developed a "troll-radar".
Very good point. I agree with you. You are right. I still think it is a political movement or group that is paying these people and not intelligence agencies. Who do you think is behind the trolling? I worry that Jacqueline is a troll for saying that it is intelligence agencies, because boy oh boy nobody will want to post here if that is the case. But, that is nonsense, it's not intelligence agencies, its political groups.
There are two options when it comes to dealing with trolls. Refute their arguments (if there are any) or, if there aren't, ignore them.
the problem with refuting their arguments is that that is precisely one of the techniques of the disinformation agent - there are several stages in neutralizing your target. The first is to try to discredit them and or create infighting within the target group. Secondly the idea is to simply CONSUME THEIR PRECIOUS TIME AND ENERGY and neutralize them that way. Then finally if these techniques don't work and the target is a big enough threat the intelligence services go to the next phase which is physical threats. This involves having very scary creepy people suddenly start appearing at your doorstep and places you visit. They are meant to be threatening but still the point is to merely scare you into stopping your activity. If that doesn't work they begin the next phase which is to do a black bag job on your home or apartment when you are not there and leave signs that they were there. Then if all else fails they will then determine how best to cause physical injury or death to "occur" none of this is secret you can google cointelpro techniques.
how can you represent the 99% and then say no right wingers?
Ya but at least if you intelligently refute their arguments then other people who are not trolls get a chance to see some dialog. Some people approach these forums just knowing what they see on the MSM, but they do have open minds.
Trolls do not present very compelling arguments, and unlike when they appear on the 5:00 News; we can sure show the world why they have no idea what they are talking about.
Well yes, and no. Maintaining the narrative of the 99% is the key in all of that. Jesse LaGreca is constantly making that point, and demonstrates its effectiveness. When Jesse was on This Week with Christinia Amonpour, he was asked a question by George Will, which he skillfully sidestepped and maintained the 99% narrative.
yes but unfortunately many people are not well suited for the rough and tumble of the kind of scientifically driven psychological operations that are appearing on this forum. You see the unfortunate reality is that for most people, if it is spoken or written, it is true. No matter how ridiculous it is, people still are easily tricked by lies. And moreover it is a terrible diversion and dissipation of energy on dialectics that at their very core are merely fictional dialectics whose only purpose is to diffuse and diminish the effectiveness of freedom seeking movements. so it is better to delete them
"You see the unfortunate reality is that for most people, if it is spoken or written, it is true. No matter how ridiculous it is, people still are easily tricked by lies."
So, reason tells us that intelligent, thinking, reasoning people are suspicious of, and freely question, everything they hear or read in order to determine whether those things are indeed true or not. My question is, is there room in OWS for someone who questions, doubts, and offers up contradictory evidence instead of being easily persuaded by what may or may not be "lies", or do they automatically qualify as trolls that should be moderated?
Please provide examples to backup your claims, else you are simply indulging in the sweet and easy taste of conspiracy theories.
what are you an imbecile or something, you have google, google it yourself. i'm not here to serve you, help yourself. here's a starting point though: take your fingers and go to google and type the word COINTELPRO.
got it! good.
I asked for specific examples of "scientifically driven psychological operations" that exist on this forum. If you cannot provide extraordinary evidence for you extraordinary claims, then you are simply engaging in cheap conspiracy theory and this forum will soon be flooded by Thrasymaque.
type in COINTELPRO in google, it's well documented. You know how to read don't you? do it.
Again, you are mentioning this forum specifically. There is nothing on Google that proves there are 'COINTELPRO' agents here. You have to show evidence for your claims by point to the comments of these agents you so fear. You cannot. Your mind is drowning in conspiracy theories, and you are wiggling in all directions to find a way out. If you want to make extraordinary claims, then provide extraordinary evidence. Show us who these agents are exactly and tell why you think they are who they are by analyzing their comments. Until you do that, your claim is bogus. You're just another lame conspiracy theorist. Another failure who has succumbed to the mind disease brought on by conspiracies. Sad.
One of the primary characteristics of diversion of the Intelligence cointelpro operatives is name calling, in particular the name you have chosen to call me which is the typical name "looney conspiracy theorist" (or some variation thereof.)
Secondly this false idea that you are saying that my claim is "extraordinary" there is nothing extraordinary whatsoever in pointing out that the US intelligence agencies have a LONG AND WELL DOCUMENTED HISTORY of infiltration of leftist movements. They admit it and there is books written about it. So if they themselves admit that they infiltrate leftist movements why are you trying to trick people into this idea that they do not. They admit it! case closed.
One of the main tactics of conspiracy theorists is to avoid providing proper evidence and indulging in a flurry of assumptions. It doesn't matter if US has a history of using intelligence agencies, it doesn't prove they are being used here. You aren't even capable of pointing our a single comment or a single user to back up your claim. What a waste.
Don't you see that you can't counter the arguments of 'agents' by claiming they are people paid by the government. This is a lame appeal to motive logical fallacy. The only thing you can do is provide strong-arguments for their claim or ignore them. You haven't even told us who these people are anyhow. Your posts are a waste of forum space.
Some conspiracy theories are out there I agree, however, the one where it all started from, the JFK assassination has at least a few plausible theories backed by credible evidence at least on par with the lone assassin findings of the Warren Commission--take some time to read up on it.
Conspiracy theories started way before JFK.
False again. One of the main tactics of intelligence agency disinformation agents is to demand "proof" (often times this demand is made after a MOUNTAIN OF PROOF is evident for all to see like in the case of the US government's attacks on 911)
Furthermore Intelligence agencies since they operate behind proxies and remote untraceable servers, there is no possible way to provide the definitive proof, that is the very nature of the CIA and the FBI you fucking dummy, duh, they don't sign their posts "courtesy of the CIA" so these demands of "proof" might fool a person who is not well educated on these matters, but when one has been researching the activities of these slimy little scumbags such as those that work for the CIA and NSA in the field of disinformation you can smell them a MILE AWAY. It becomes very simple.
Furthermore if you actually are coming to this forum and expect to CONvince people that the CIA would never do things like infiltrate leftist organizations then you will not find many people who will accept this GARBAGE you are trying to push. It's called COINTELPRO, go to google and type in the words COINTELPRO and educate yourself on what is ACTUALLY happening here.
These forums are swarming with disinformation specialists from the intelligence agencies. That is a fact. Nice try though trying to CON people but try again.
Demanding proof is not a 'tactic' reserved for use by these 'agents' you speak of but cannot name. It is something all intellectuals and scientists demand for any claim. It is the normal way of doing things. That's what the scientific method was created for.
I'm not trying to convince anyone that it is not happening here, I'm simply saying I have no reason to believe it is and it doesn't matter at all. These people can only write comments like you and me, and the only way to counter the arguments these supposed 'agents' come up with is to use counter-arguments or keep silent. If people develop a sharp mind and are critical thinkers, then they cannot be tricked by flawed arguments. What you promote is the opposite. You promote a weak and gullible mind that latches on to unproven claims instead of debating with worthwhile arguments.
Who's to say you are not an 'agent', that I am not an 'agent' or than anybody else on here is not an 'agent'. It does not matter. If you think it does, then why are you posting here? Protect your mind by leaving this site if you believe you can be tricked so easily.
That is not a fact. It is your assumption. Nothing more. You admit yourself that you cannot tell if someone is a government 'agent' because they hide their IP. You have no clue who could be such an 'agent' here, and you have not provided even one comment you claim is from an 'agent'.
What is your point? Even if I were gullible and believed your claims without demanding proof, what should I do? There is nothing of use to gain from this information. You either use the forum, or you don't because you fear the Men in Black. If you use it, then you counter arguments properly and enter into proper debates. Or, you keep silent. Your whole point leads to nowhere.
It is better to simply delete the garbage coming from the intelligence agencies, this way we can focus on real issues and not WASTE TIME on the false dialectics which are precisely the goals of the intelligence agencies. It's not considered censorship because the garbage coming from the Paid Disinformation Agents that are swarming all over this board is not genuine discourse it is merely designed to waste time, so it doesn't count.
Sure, but you haven't identified any comments from 'agents' or any users who are 'agents'. Are we supposed to cherry pick whoever we want and delete their account? You sound like an 'agent' to me. Should I ask the moderators to delete your account? Should they do it even though I cannot provide any evidence to back up my assumptions? We are back to square one when I asked you to put some evidence on the table. You can't. All you have is hearsay. It's utterly useless. Stop wasting everybody's time with your dead-end comments.
When you have some names, ask the moderators to delete their accounts. End of story.
May I ask how it is that you are so well versed in the techniques used by "disinformation agents" to "neutralize their targets"? What on earth caused you to become familiar with the term "cointelpro techniques" in the first place? I'm guessing that your basic, average citizen has never heard it and has no idea what it means...since I consider myself to be your basic, average citizen and am clueless.
dude the term cointelpro is not such an esoteric term, you've just not had the occasion to examine the intricacies of the threat facing us. many people have a thorough understanding how the intelligence apparatus operates in the united states - That's all I will say for now.
I see - anyone who doesn't march in lockstep with your political agenda is an FBI/CIA/NSA infiltrator.
lets not alienate those that are not extreme lefties, I am meeting a lot of ex-republicans who are just as fed up as the lefties. so lets keep in mind if you want change about 50% of this country tend to vote republican and 50% vote dem. OWS is not about taking left right sides. both sides are fed up. we need to continue to focus on issues that are not partisan politics such as getting corporate money out of politics, most republicans polled agree with dems that corporations are not people nor should they have a say in how our democracy runs. lets not alienate 50% of the 99% who vote republican, we must remain accessible and not politically affiliated. I personally am fairly moderate. I am fiscally conservative and want to see spending reigned in though I am socially liberal and don't want to see the government tell anyone who they can marry or what choices they can make with their own bodies, and it seems to me most independent moderates feel the same way, yet there is no independent candidate that represents these ideals
Because OWS is not Left-Wing. It is an apolitical, anarchistic movement currently focused primarily on protesting the numerous investment frauds carried out by Wall Street. (Hence, "Occupy Wall Street")
Given that, so-called "RIght-Wingers" are welcome, despite how angry that make make you feel.
For example, it makes me angry that so many people who claim to have OWS at heart are more interested in labelling trolls, controlling discourse, and gatekeeping for the leaderless movement.
I wish that more people would unegotistically focus on solutions to the problems, and then enforce those solutions -- or revolt, rather than give into the dogmatic divide-and-conquer that has been the status quo for so long.
"Consensus" does NOT mean everyone agrees with you immediately, and if you simply exclude those who do not agree with you, then... Consensus becomes utterly impossible.
The same is true if your censor and mock people's words.
It's not called censorship it's called DISINFECTING - big difference. The FBI, NSA, CIA and Military Intelligence who have all openly admitted they are in the COINTELPRO game do not deserve to have their "Voice" heard. Because it is not genuine - it is designed to disrupt and destroy the movement. Better to just weed them out so the forum becomes a vital tool for the spread of ideas and actions and information about how to solve the problems.
The mistake you are making is assuming every opposing opinion on this page is Cointelpro. You are the conspiracy theorist. Many of these same anti-occupiers can be found on Tumblr, with the same user names even.
They're regular people who find folks like you part of the problem.
Kinda like I do.
I'm just not anti-occupy.
I'm anti-nutters.
incorrect you are neither - you're a moron - nothing more. and they are as well. and you're running scarred because you cannot deal with the coming awakening and so you believe that if you can just suck on enough dick of your master (the oligarchy who owns you ) that somehow there will safety there with that dick in your mouth.
Sorry to inform you but you're CHOKING
I'm not running. Not at all. I just have no tolerance for belligerents like you. You don't scare me. You don't inspire me. You don't do much more than irritate me. You can't express an opinion without name calling and slander. You can't even make a logical, pointed argument when it comes right down to it. You're a nuisance, nothing more. You may benefit from this movement, but it will not be people like you who effect the change it brings. You do far more damage than good, to be perfectly honest.
Learn how to communicate your thoughts and opinions and maybe, just maybe, you'll learn something along the way.
Censorship is the suppression of speech or other public communication which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or inconvenient to the general body of people as determined by a government, media outlet, or other controlling body.
Nope, it's censorship
Dude / Dudette, I can't speak for these shadowy figures your paranoia has convinced you of, but I am sincere, and I'll be damned if you or anyone labels me a troll or a shill because you think "no one could possibly believe that" -- because I DO.
??? huh ??? (get a brain)
--I'm not the one confused here.
uh ...yea... i think so... the word is "clueless" (look it up)
Read it again: (breaking it up into simpler phrases for you)
Dude / Dudette,
I can not speak for these shadowy figures your paranoia has convinced you of, (that is to say that I speak for myself. Their motives may be different, I do not know)
but I am sincere, (thesis statement)
and I'll be damned if you or anyone labels me a troll or a shill (purpose and rationale)
because you think "no one could possibly believe that" (debunking your presumption)
because I DO. (believe what I say; therefore I am not a troll)
Make sense this time? (I.E. do you have anything relevant to reply with besides namecalling?)
duh
yes. duh.
clapping like a teenager at a Miley Cyrus concert "Oh yes! Yes!!! That's a strong come-back argument! Gooooooooooooo Jackie!"
And don't bother to tell me you hate being called Jackie because I couldn't care less and I'll just do it more.
wow so you admit you're a thuggish pig, well I've PROVED my point. Proof has been accomplished, the PIG has been DRAWN OUT OF HIS HIDING PLACE.
Yes. You have. Been drawn out of your hiding place. That bunker you live in under your mom's basement.
A warning banner done by the administrators of this forum to inform newcomers that this forum is being compromised by those that wish it to fail. A link should be provided to a page that accurately describes the movement and a list of what they hope to accomplish for the rights of American citizens.
Its much more likely to be some right wing think tank or other elite-backed non-profit, although sure there are probably some genuine spooks on here as well. That being said, there should be more moderation in this forum.
I love it how, like a bunch of roaches about to get sprayed, all the trolls chime in "Free speech! Free speech!"
You guys already have a place to preach lower taxes and less government. It's called the Tea Party.
TommyNYC,
You got this characterization correct. From my experience here I find my Trolls are really essentially the tea party crowd. It fits their MO perfectly as well, ANGER filled HATE. With that known their behavior is very telling. They will twist words any which way possible to stop decent debate from occurring here.*
Personally, I believe it has been very effective. These troll discussion threads which we post into help vent we all feel deeply, frustration, but in the end this has nothing to do to contribute to the cause for this movement. We're back here swatting these troll flies when our focus needs to be on the prize. We need to be swatting wall street, those in congress protecting the rich, the tea party for trying to dismantle all the social programs, and saving the middle class from it's final destruction.
Instead here we are. It wouldn't surprise me if the Koch Bros are invloved here. Pay these posters to come here and divide and conquer. There's so many out there the want this movement to go away. The trolls help that cause. I'm postive we lost some really posters that had great ideas but were squashed by these pests early on. I fight like hell which is why I'm still here. But I am already trying find other avenues and find an off ramp.
No doubt, and I'll say it. The trolls are winning.
"END THE FED" is their point of entry. If we spread the word that "END THE FED" is a pro-elite far-right movement, then they will have far less traction. The "END THE FED" movement is dangerous and violent.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/end-the-fed-movement-has-ties-to-domestic-terroris/
I agree, it's a backdoor.
Yes! Fuck Dissent! Get these other thinkers out of here, do it for the children!!
wrong again, the right wing garbage on this forum cannot be considered "thinking" because it is of such obviously low caliber that it doesn't fit into that category. Nor can it be called dissent because they are being paid a salary (albeit now a very impressive one) to do it. There may be a few freeper style losers who are not on the salary of the intelligence agencies or their subcontractors but most here who are disrupting this forum are.
thank you, i just learned a new word conglomerate. fReeper
You, my dear, are a prime example of why childish things like OWS always fail. You are detached from reality. Do you really think the intelligence agencies don't know exactly who OWS is? If a republican was president, you would all be anti-war protestors, you are the same bunch that mills around WTO meetings, yelling slogans and beating drums. You my dear, are the lunatic fringe, you are of no more interest to the CIA than a fly buzzing around a horse's ass. Get over yourself.
Incorrect, right now the OWS movement has the power structure in RED ALERT. OWS represents the biggest threat to the infrastructure of lies and murder by the ruling elite since the 1960's. They are frantically now trying to pass laws to classify dissent as terrorism because they know that the awareness of their criminality and theft is so great that they will have no choice but to complete their prison state they have planned for the people. Hopefully we can destroy their systems of hate and slavery before they ensnare us in their net of oppression and murder. This struggle is the struggle of the vast majority against a very small number of elite who are forced now to spend a sizable amount of their time and resources to build networks of disinformation to try to trick the people and divert their attention from this vitally needed movement.
OK,I get it, you are a secret conservative planted here to make OWS seem even crazier than it really is. That paragraph hit every nutter hot point there is.
Is this your theme song? http://youtu.be/hnzHtm1jhL4
Wrong again dufus. (man your disinfo is PISS POOR) i hope you don't include your embarrassing attempts here in your weekly report to your boss. It's really bad quality disinfo - you need to get some skills bub - you ain't got none.
Calm down, think grassy meadows in the clear spring sunshine, waking to soft waves breaking over a distant rocky shore, kittens and puppies, center now...ohooooom...ohoooom...ohooom. You can do it! Reality is just around the corner! Are you able to dress yourself?
you make important points, although infiltration could come from anywhere, not just far right. it seems US gov/corp will do anything to try to shut down this movement. as with this forum, most probably they have people pretending to be protestors, who then create a problem with police or whatever, to try to give movement a bad image.
as has been said before, it's a war for people's minds.
now, how to disinfect? how to maintain freedom of speech at same time?
Well there has to be a person who is knowledgable about these matters. Because as soon as the disinfecting begins, the intelligence agencies will have no choice but to fine tune their approach and it will be a lot more difficult to weed out the trolls. As it is now they have a free reign to say whatever they want so long as it is not anti semitic or in support of Ron P A U L (which seem to be the only two things that are censored on this board)
Talk of Ron Paul is censored? In what way shape or form? There are zillions of threads of Ron Paul around here. Are you a nutter Jackie?
so you use a name that refers to buttressing the oligarchy against democracy but tell me, do you actually think that you are a part of the oligarchy whose dick you have in your mouth every second of your life?
Thrasymaque supports the Ogliarchy in the Republic, but Glaucon does not.
Give us more. You are drowning yourself in your own words! I'm enjoying this self-suicide. You are hilarious.
But summed up in Alan Moore's phrase: Who Watches the Watchmen?
Please write the rules for posting, I’ll click my heels and make sure in the future I will follow them as I can’t decipher anything for myself.
Just treat a troll like a troll. Ignore it.
Here's some information about the techniques of COINTELPRO (Us Government Sponsored Disinformation Counter-Intelligence Program - Co-in-tel-pro)
http://www.voxnews.com/index.php/police-state-usa/police-state-usa/492-disinfo-techniques
Of course they are going to watch you it's their job. It doesn't mean they are trying to cut you off the net or that they are trying to change your message it means theres alot going on in this country and its their job to keep an eye on things,keep it within the rules and succeed
I'm sorry, I thought 99% meant 99% of ALL the people, not just 99% of the left... am I confused?
You want 99% but you don't want the opposing view point stated so that this can be shaped into a movement that settles in the middle (where you'll finally rally that number)...
You apparently have no interest in restoring power to all the people... just some?
You confirm my suspicions that the die-hard occupiers care nothing about General Consensus and only about their own agenda.
Thank you for that.
man you sound pretty dumb, have you read what you wrote. Why in the world would we want to restore power to ALL the people? are you an imbecile or something? We want to REMOVE power from many people, The scum like Sean Hannity, and Bill OReilly, and Rupurt Murdoch, etc. We're trying to TAKE THE POWER AWAY FROM THEM... hello.
kind of a thick dullard aren't ya.
Ah. Right. Because the most intelligent of our species always using name calling and insults to make logical points. LOL
fact's a fact - you're a slimy dullard.
Aren't the right-wingers part of the 99%? Since you can't figure out what you want other than destruction of America you NEED the right to keep the welfare checks coming.
welfare checks?? what the fuck are you talking about, i've got over 2 mill in assets bubba, don't need a welfare check. And I am quite clear what I want to do, and that has nothing to do with "destroying america" (you fucking simpleton) I would like very much to expose these thuggish pigs who OWN this country and are destroying the hopes and dreams of the vast numbers of Americans - that's what i'd like to do.
so you are part of the 1% the occupiers hate. But if they get their way your $2 million will be worth nothing. Be sure to cut your own throat by supporting the morons. Actually, I doubt you have 2 nickels to rub together much less being a multi-millionaire, as someone with as much money as you claim to have wouldn't be wasting their time on this forum.
uh dude, 2 million is not that much, if you having two million in assets puts you in the 1% you are complete moron and know nothing about anything.
(sounds like you're the one with no nickles to his name - why don't you get a job or something?)
The right likes suppression through welfare too dude
Sure thing dude. Have the ows got their plans to run the whole country, from taxation to distribution and laws? No. Dude. You can't just protest your whole life, some day you will have to take responsibility for yourself and others.
No shit.....dude. I assumed you were young due to your partisan views. Some of us have peeled the layers back to see the corruption of the D/R Duopoly.
Let me know when you've caught up..
No shit, dude. When you grow up your attitude might change, or maybe not. Really, it doesn't matter one way or the other to me because I'm employed and ready to slide into retirement. One thing in the way would be the destruction of the American way of life. Dude, you need to visit other countries and see how fkd up they are. D/R can be fixed by term limits, protest for them and we can all move ahead. dude
What do you think Im doing? Dont assume that Im not a capitalist and fairly successful, but just dont like the direction the central banking is moving in...Dude.
buy gold and silver dude.
Word. Dude.
someone else trying to turn OWS into a Lefty Lucy Liberal organization tool.
yes yes, Eventually Thanks to People like Jaq, OWS will NOT be made up of Americans, only Socialists and Comunists, killers of Freedom and Free speech.
I agree. Where are the moderators? let's become the 50%, lets BAN the Thinking half of the country from posting, and Burn all their books and Ban Fox news and Talk radio.
Damn them! pfft.
This is a tread to organize forum Topics by category
I've been collecting and organizing thread heads. Each thread head post has a link to thread on this forum so some threads have been ordered and can be brought back up.
The Protest
The Issues
.
general catch all
detractors
markdown
Allowing all points of view are what make this forum second to none. It is the place to shine a light on evil.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/weve-built-it-they-will-come/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-to-defeat-trolls-and-the-establishment-in-this/
They are spending a massive amount of money attacking for the same reason the left is supporting- to keep it in the D/R box.
As long as its contained, they can continue on their march towards global fascist domination.
If it break outside the box, then some real change may happen. Which neither party wants.
The Left is attacking too, but they make it look like support so that when the movement fizzles, they'll say "ahhh there there, we'll put a roof over your heads". The 99% Declaration is what threatens to burn the box, not occupations, so when this working groups pages were taken off this site 5 weeks ago, that should have told us a lot about the 'leaderless/apolitical' shills, unelected people, that supposedly speak for OWS99%, the NYCGA. They haven't publicly endorsed the Declaration and they have everyone rejecting the NGA concept because it's not 'politically correct' here, thereby keeping OWS impotent. In the end, with everyone all dressed up and nowhere to go, OWS will become to the D's what TP is to the R's and it will be business as usual. Trolls and TPrs aren't the problem, the enemy of OWS is within, hiding in plain site in Zuccotti Park.
NGA NOW all roads lead to Philadelphia July 4th 2012
We. Are. The 99%
Approaching a Metapolitical Discourse:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/approaching-a-metapolitical-discourse/
http://metapolitik.org/article/approaching-metapolitical-discourse
A People's Social Network:
http://metapolitik.org/welcome
Anarchist's Facebook:
http://metapolitik.org/blogs/admin/about
Inoculating Against Right Wing Memes:
http://metapolitik.org/article/approaching-metapolitical-discourse#11
Ochlocracy vs. Epimorphic Personal Ontologies:
http://metapolitik.org/article/approaching-metapolitical-discourse#20
I hate the Koch-Cheny-Murdoch crap at least as much as anyone
And it is a pain in the neck to keep refuting it
And it is agrivating that they are using us
And we all know that they believe in censorship
BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE IN CENSORSHIP
You don't believe in Respect, don't you mean?
Say it!
Respect Respect Respect Respect Respect Respect
Moderating garbage is what papers, television news agencies, Government and radio personalities do. Are you not sick of ideologically blind moderators? I'd hate to see a gate keeper mentality infect the intertubes.
it's not censorship - it's "disinfectant" We welcome genuine dissenting views. But intelligence agencies do not count as genuine dissenting views. Those are just the scientific methodologies of deception and disinformation and those kinds of "views" do not deserve the same protection as genuine discourse offers.
We, or at least I, have been demanding an answer to this question for at least a month now! Nobody here seems able to excercize control over this site, or otherwise to disaffiliate ourselves from it. I think the situation is outrageous and we need to get to the bottom of it. Personally, I have felt for a long time that this site has been infiltrated.
This site has been infiltrated, and OWS in general has been infiltrated by the ultra-right "END THE FED" madness. These views are promoted by violent armed racists and need to be understood for what they are.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/end-the-fed-movement-has-ties-to-domestic-terroris/
Yeah, meanwhile some are worried that we will be coopted by Michael Moore, or Angelia Jolie. People better develop a critical eye concerning allies vs. antagonists!
Can you show us how to develop this critical eye? Surely, you have been able to separate the allies and the antagonists. Please, can you name a few antagonists here and tell use the method you used to identify them.
well i know that you operate under several identities here, now see if you can figure how I know that.
the greek would be on my list
Because I told everyone from the start, and all my identities are character names from Plato's Republic? It's not something I ever tried to hide.
now your talking about censoring the forum. What is it? Everyone doesn't have your point of view or we aren't smart enough to decide for ourselves what is relevant and what isn't?
Incorrect, As I explained this is not about censoring people with different points of views, this is taking out the garbage. The fact is that most of this garbage I speak of is not coming from people with a genuine dissenting view, it's coming from the intelligence services therefore it is not a part of this vital dialogue we are trying to establish. It's just covert disinformation cointelpro by a very well financed group of the creepiest people on the planet earth.
thats exactly what they are saying about us....minus the money...I just think in a movement it is important to have everyone's opinion. Subversion will be seen as what it is.
Good point. It is incendiary garbage at that. When these hateful words get thrown around enough it escalates to actual violence not just verbal abuse. That's the long and short of it, we come here expecting this abuse, it makes it a little easier to take, but it does wear one down eventually.
The trolls can hang around here all they want. After all, what's more fun than making fun of semi-educated retards? Granted, it's like shooting fish in a barrel, but it's still a blast... :-)
It's nice to see someone living up to the ideal of treating all people with equal respect and refusing to use the disadvantaged for your own pleasure.
If you're not a troll, then won't all those stupid people who believe everything they read think ALL OWS members are arrogant and use words like "retard" to insult others?
The trolls on this board are hardly "disadvantaged"--they're just lazy and stupid, and they're fair game for ANY kind of attack. And I hate to break it to you, but respect isn't a birthright--it's EARNED. If a poster on this board is being disrespectful to the OWS movement, then he's going to get it back from me in SPADES. End of story.
You must be the most loyal of oppositions in the world, someone very lonely on a Saturday night, or someone paid to be a pain in the ass.
You seem to be everywhere my dear assdouche friend trying to spread mayhem and dissent everywhere.
I hope the money, or the temporary cure for your loneliness, is worth it.
I'm saddened that you can only comprehend such a limited number of reasons for the why of what I do or say.
Is it not possible that I actually believe in my point of view because the evidence proving that I'm right is abundant, but you deny me the evidence proving I'm wrong?
Or that I merely live to experience every drop of wisdom that falls from your eloquent, saintly fingers?
The time taken to be certain about what is true, and what is not, is never wasted. It's always worth it.
Can't wait to read your original thoughts on how to change the world. You must be a detailed little minx.....let's see how that brain creates.
How can I possibly hope to change the world when you say that everything I believe or say is wrong? I didn't start a movement to change the world. I'm here waiting for the enlightened ones to tell me how to do it.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
George Bernard Shaw
Which only proves that no reasonable man (or woman) really wants to join this movement.
Unless George Bernard Shaw was wrong.....(you do know he was a Fabian Socialist?)....not exactly the type of person I look to for advice/wisdom....
No, the unreasonable man...or woman...will herd enough cats until an adequate number can be gathered to support very targeted mechanisms which will then leverage political changes in a manner than will change a country's destiny and save the world.
That is why I referenced the Butterfly Effect.
The Butterfly Effect is a theory, not a fact. Given the obvious difficulty in actually herding even one cat, it is entirely reasonable to believe that you will never be able to control a clowder of them, much less save the world. But you are all about being unreasonable, so carry on.
I must sleep now so I can stalk, annoy, and disrupt you some more tomorrow after Church.
You do like exceptions don't you. Are you an attorney? Seriously.
Exceptions? To what?
I like to consider ALL the most likely scenarios that might result from any given act BEFORE I rush head long into that act. That seems to bother you. Greatly.
I guess I'd just rather miss out on being one of the "heroes" that "leads" the world to peace and harmony, than be named among the fools that ended up leading the world off a cliff. I'm willing to hang out until I know where the wagon is headed before I offer to chip in for gas.
An attorney? Not hardly. I couldn't stomach accepting money to defend someone I knew was guilty. Nor could I accept money to attack or convict someone I knew was not guilty.
I would be shocked if the FBI doesn't monitor the is forum (and the CIA/NSA the international posts), and I'm gad they do. I don't buy into the conspiracy theory, however, that they are actively trying to derail anything. I know some of these type folks and they just aren't the big bad terrible oppressors everyone likes to imagine.
From my experience here, I sense the presence of three kinds of trolls:
1) Random idiots who simply want to pick a fight, call people names, etc. Many of these are probably kids or immature adults.
2) Political operatives who seem to be somewhat organized, probably from the right but possibly from business/banking PACs who pose as one of us but post silly inane ideas, conspiracy theories, etc with the intent of muddying things up so badly the OWS followers eventually become disillusioned and give up.
3) Organized operatives from the Middle East (Iran?) who seek to spread an anti-semitic message among the disaffected of America. I've actually seen some advocate violence, and that's why I hope the FBI does monitor this site.
Folks need to remember that we, the USA, have been very effective in our use of social media, texts, and forums like these to fan the flames of the Arab Spring. It is only logical to assume that our own FBI monitors these discussions to keep foreign interests out of American politics. I have also been asked a few questions here in regards to whether I support violence, etc, and I expect those may have been from the FBI as well. I think it's right and proper they do so.
As for the AynRand/RonPaul crowd, I can't tell why they're here. Their positions are about as far right as they can be and run contrary to everything OWS stands for. They want to 'double-down' on free-market unregulated capitalism, and nobody but them thinks that's a smart idea. Nevertheless, I don't count them as trolls.
Finally, remember if these are paid trolls, at least we have the satisfaction of knowing we're supporting employment... as long as they're Americans and not a bunch of guys sitting in a dank room in India !
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I find myself hoping that there are paid trolls...I also find myself wondering if some enterprising Tea Party member isn't actively creating a 'Troll School', with maybe a week of training on how to be an effective troll...I also find myself wondering how much this entrepreneur would charge for this week of training and IF there is a list of places to apply...and how each 'student' is graded upon performance...I wonder what the pay scale would be and how they employers of such trolls would ascertain whether or not the trolls they hired were performing to the standards the pay scale demands...
Oh! Please excuse me, I was having a momentary attack of capitalism! I'm better now.
It is moderated. Go too far either side it will get erased from this forum.
This isn't OWS.
The trolls don't go to GAs, they cower behind their computers in the dark of night.
Yes, "nucleus", I agree, but tens of thousands of OWS supporters CANNOT go to GAs - for all kinds of reasons - and this forum is their only link to OWS.
In its present, CHAOTIC, TROLL-INFESTED state, this forum is a DISGRACE pure and simple, and I'm sure it has already turned off tens of thousands of potential supporters, contributors, donors, etc.
That is a crying shame, because this forum constitutes ONE OF THE MAJOR BATTLEFIELDS OF OWS for the hearts and minds of the American people.
So you admit this is a left-wing movement?
If there is anything worthwhile in it, the movement, it's the Humane Values that drive the various programs for change...some of which are impractical or misguided, no doubt...but which cannot be characterized fairly as leftist...unless, unless we are to characterize social values, social justice, opportunity as leftist ideas, which I don't think we can. America and much of Western Civilization is headed to the brink of unsustainablility and chaos, to authoritarianism and bankruptcy...it's more proper to say that the efforts aimed at redress of social justice questions is a core human value, not a political faction...and OWS does not, cannot corner the market on this theme...but is common to humane personalities. It's really a choice between more violent competition and more civil cooperation, not between republicans or democrats, democracy or communism.
This thread sucks the op is deranged.
LMAO Like "Dr. Gileos" could tell WHO is deranged!!!!!!!!!!!
Doesnt take a doctor.
That's right, Doc. It's only takes a MIRROR. :)
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It's time to take your meds and remove that tin foil hat.
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What about the Right wing supporters? Are you proposing to run us off. If that is the case maybe you should call it he 33% instead.
Right wing supporters do not by any stretch of the imagination comprise 66% of the US population. They are a small minority who's appearance is amplified by the news networks and most giant US corporations because the limited mentality of the right is perfect for the kind of oppression of the human spirit which is beneficial for the fortunes of the billionaire oligarchy.
The billionaire oligarchy do not want intelligent free thinking liberated minds because those kinds of people want nothing to do with the stifling mindless shallow lifestyle offered up by the oligarchy - this oligarchy prefers thuggish mindless backwards thinking people as is typical of the right in this country. Basically they want a nation of cops. And we all know how interesting cops are. NOT
No we are about 33% as well. I dont think you understand the political spectrum or the difference between right and left. Right mean less government like Anarchist Libertarians and republicans. Right calls for less government control and more personal freedom. The Politicians you see in the news are not Real republicans. Left is more Government and more government control. Like socialist communist dictators and democrats. The left is always taking our freedoms away. The left extended the credit rating so the banks could chop out loans to people that couldnt afford them. You might be suprised to know that the only wars started by a republican were the two Iraq wars at least as far as I can find. Truman=democrat started the Korean war. Kennedy=democrat started Vietnam. Mckinnley=republican who under high pressure from the democratic controlled congress started the spanish war. I wont count the two world wars but both presidents were democrats. Clinton=Democrat started the serbian war and the bosnian war and supported the crackdown on peaceful dissent at Waco. Jimmy carter declared war on drugs. I dont think you understand the political spectrum if you call for more government control witch is a Liberal thing to do. Tell me what are the basic conservative principals? If you cant tell me dont respond.
actually i am more concerned with the social and political agenda of the right wing that exists in America today (not some theoretical technically correct definition of conservatism of 100 years ago - which did indeed stand for less government)
No, the conservative republicans of today are anti human sexuality (they are deeply threatened by all forms of sexuality and wish to eliminate it altogether however this is not even their truest position - this is just the position of the industrio/religious fanatics which lead the conservative republicans who know that human sexuality is bad for the kind of total control that is profitable for billionaire industrialists - because lets face it - when you're having a good fuck the last thing you give a shit about is anything that someone like newt gingrich has to say. Newt Gingrich is ONLY for EXTREMELY SEXUALLY FRUSTRATED PEOPLE. That's it. So the point is that that the MODERN republican conservative is an ANTI SEXUAL CRUSADER.
Only problem is that this LIE is just there to keep the little Republican Conservatives as nice little factory workers - when you find out what's really going on you realize that more often than not these "Crusaders for Family Values Congressmen" turn out to be HOMOSEXUAL PEDOPHILES -- case in point congressman Mark Foley from florida. He was a real deal family values conservative republican who fought HARD to keep the people in a state of sexual control.... uh... that is until it was discovered that he liked sucking on little boys dicks. oooooopps. there goes those family values.
The truth is that the republican conservative "movement" regardless of what it stood for 100 years ago, today is the most corrupt perverted shallow lie this worlds has ever seen. Soory but I don't want Newt Gingrich's Surveillance cameras in my bedroom thank you very much. That's republicanism - a camera in every bedroom.
Your post here demonstrates the most narrow minded, egotistical, propaganda fed, extreme left wing "talking points" I've ever seen. You know, one of the most "corrupt, perverted, shallow lies" this world has ever seen.
A person would have to be an absolute idiot and completely naive "blind sheep" to believe a single thing from anyone that either will not, or cannot, prove that what they say is true.
Of course, you aren't one for facts and evidence are you? You expect people to believe you and listen to everything you say simply because you said it firmly and with capital letters. You most certainly didn't take the time to find out if the crap you printed above was true or not, so why should anyone else?
Please OWS....please prove that at least YOU are more credible than Jacqueline is. Demonstrate that you're smart enough not to believe in, or pass along, anything you hear without doing your own due diligence to determine whether or not it is true.
Prove it! Prove it! Prove it! you sound like a broken record. I already did prove it (you fuckin' idiot) And fuurthermore I'm not here to "prove" anything to you, you have google use it.
No Jacqueline. All "googling" does is prove that these organizations have used the tactics you are so upset about in the past. And they could very well be using them today. But that doesn't constitute PROOF that they are indeed using them here in the forum. Just because you think or claim or insist that they are, doesn't make it true.
If you think that there cannot be any significant number of real, honest, intelligent people out here in the real world that would ever be suspicious or distrustful of OWS on their own-and that the only people who could or would possibly resist you are either spies or paid sheep-you are sadly and completely naive and mistaken.
Some people do buy into everything they hear or read. Like you apparently do.
incorrect, you know nothing about what you are trying to push, give it up.
Hear me this last time. I'm done with you.
This forum could be crawling with spies. I'll even go so far as to say YES!!! YES YES YES!!! It's filled utterly and completely to the top and brimming over with spies.
I. Don't. Care. Empirical evidence, from this very forum, has proven to me,(ironically in a totally unexpected way) that people aren't as stupid and uneducated in the realm of logic as you believe they are. If they aren't falling for your crap, and they aren't, then I have no worries that they'll fall for "covert" crap either.
I agree. Although I actually hope that Jaqueline is right. I hope there is CIA and FBI all over this board. Because there's alot of random people out here, some of whom want to end our form of government. I hope our government knows about and is watching them.
I welcome them. Their propaganda has GOT to be more entertaining and realistic than Jac's.
Indeed. lol!! Nice comment below too. I think someone needs some Anger Management.....
Or a freakin MIRROR and some serious introspection.
What I wouldn't give to dress up every kid in her neighborhood in a black suit, white shirt, tie, and sunglasses on Halloween and then hide in the bushes and watch....
lol. I bet she freaks out when she sees a helicopter too. THEY'RE WATCHING.
ha ha ha you mean a slimy piece of shit like you are now claiming to speak for the "They" and magically know what "They" are thinking?
wow you really are a delusional turd aren't you. Keep dreaming slimeball.
Why not? You did.
i thought you said that you were "done with me" so you have also then PROVED that you are a liar - nice. So you're a liar and a slimy little turd, whey in the world should anyone ever listen to anything you say, you've proven to anyone who reads this thread that your word can't be trusted, (watch this fucking slimeball lie again and actually come back with a response - AFTER HE SAID IT WOULD BE HIS LAST 4 responses ago)
Go you PAID GOVERNMENT CREEPS CAN'T KEEP YOUR STORY STRAIGHT
You're right. I said I was done with you, and I meant it. But you're just so inexplicably nuts...you say such obviously incorrect things and yet are so convinced that they are correct (or you're playing a fabulous role) that it's like a car-wreck. I want to look away. But I can't. It's just so splendidly horrific I....am....mesmerized.
It's like being shown the "alien" at area 51. Or the singularity at the center of a black hole. Or the bottom of the Marianas Trench. The absolute power-no matter how horrible and terrifying it is-that is YOU....is impossible not to try to comprehend....even if I know that is a completely futile exercise.
But I'm being selfish. I know my responses will result in you strutting around the barnyard in all your terrible splendor over and over, and that's making it all about me. So I'll stop. You run along and read up on the little tutorial I left you on the difference between translation and transliteration. I promise not to watch, or reply while you try to pull your head out of the jaws of that little "trap" you set for me. No matter how much I want to.....
listen dufus I need to string along dumbfucks like you - this way the thread gets a lot of hits and maintains it's position on the front page of the forums and give newcomers a chance to:
A) Learn about COINTELPRO and the dangers of allowing COINTELPRO to enter their minds.
B) See what dumb shitwads those COINTELPRO AGENTS ARE (whether they are doing so on the payroll of uncle sam or whether they are some redneck sitting in his trailer park screaming at the top of his lungs FOR FREE like I suspect you may be doing.
Either way you are helping the cause whether you know it or not, but this is only because I know how to MANIPULATE dumb fucks like you. You need to get some schoolin' dufus.
I am happy to bump this thread for you. Newcomers who read this will see how ridiculous you and your ideas are.
I love this. I have never had honor or obligation of being a member in any of the above organizations. I really do not see the people who constitue OWS as being any threat to any supposed entrenched right wing. Like I said previously, if you are promoting revolution, then you had better be ready for people to try to derail you or at least to seriously question where it is that you are going. Adam Carolla was right. This is the real world and it is not fair. Man up and be prepared to fight
So when are they going to moderate the left wing garbage?
After you leave and join up with your Tea Party friends Troll
They can't wait for you to have high five tea parties!
Not much left wing garbage on this forum, it's all coming from the Intelligence agencies who are posing as both right wing mindless thugs and left wing "communists" designed to scare people who don't know any better.
(believe me when you see the MAO TZE DONG posters in the parade - THAT'S THE FBI COUNTERINTELLIGENCE AGENTS! absolutely positively the hard core communists in the crowd are ALWAYS deep cover US intelligence agents - only problem is it's not deep cover any more because we all know that trick by now.
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Are you mods really deleting my comments in this thread.. or?
Where'd they go? I miss them so...
silencing dissent, is really horrible.
'Occupy' is about justice and equality..
not some hate sh!t on the 'right wing'
If you want to be a bivider, then just stick with the current formula.. dont protests.
(Lol. After all, Obama is just as responsible as the likes of McCain)
OWS like any other freedom movement has to use all available resources and symbiosis with infiltration and other malicious attacks. This is the reality on the battle-ground. If putting moderator then “THEY” infiltrate into the ranks of moderators. If OWS gets enough momentum then some of “THEY” will defect to OWS; that is, the time that OWS has infiltrated into the “THEM.” Besides, a freedom fighter does not nag and does not become impatient. He does part of the job that he can afford, even if it does not seem great, without expectation to be rewarded immediately.
Lol. 'Occupy' is not against the 'right wing'
The movement is for equality and justice.
the only people that ows is threat to is themselves.they are being used by the who want to bring the USA,..............soros and co. When you're done doing what they have set up, they will have no use for you., To them you're "useful idiots"
While Soros and Obama and the Democratic party would like very much to hijack the movement and are busily attempting to do just that, it is unclear whether or not they will be entirely successful at doing so. movements like this tend to create ripples that go far beyond the intentions of their originators. I would not call the OWS organizers "useful idiots" - in only one month of existence they have sparked a GLOBAL MOVEMENT. hardly the work of idiot... maybe you should take a look in the mirror, you might find an idiot looking back at you.
soros and the dems/libs ARE ows. they have planned it and are funding it. Global movement? It's all part of the same web, funded by the same people. And yes,................useful idiots are being used to carry out the plans of soros et al. When they are no longer useful they will be gone.
Why are you still stuck in a left right paradigm? Wake up, it is the people against the criminal elites. Left-right does not matter depriving the crimial elites of their power and money is the need. Ending the federal reserve is the first and main thing that needs to be done.
Ending the Fed is a Right-wing extremist rallying point. Your a right-winger Jiradog, you've just been tricked into believing you're neutral and "above it all".
Ending the federal reserve would just give the elites more power and money.
"Ending the federal reserve would just give the elites more power and money."
discuss?
Restricted money supply (gold standard) in a crisis leads to deflation which causes greater income disparity through lowered demand and unemployment.
Anyway, I'm not going to waste my time refuting crackpot theories that are pushed by conspiracy websites, neo-Nazi blogs and Koch funded think tanks. "End the Fed" is a joke.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/01/kucinich-bill-seeks-to-end-the-federal-reserve/ Topics: congressman dennis kucinich ♦ Kucinich
A bill put forward by Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) would do what libertarians and conservatives have long wished for: effectively end the Federal Reserve.
The National Emergency Employment Defense (NEED) Act of 2011 would place the Federal Reserve, a private, qusai-governmental institution that controls the nation’s monetary policy, under control of the U.S. Treasury. It would also implement new rules for the financial industry, in hopes of ending the worst abuses that created the 2008 financial collapse and the ensuing recession.
Listening to Kucinich speak about the Fed, one gets the sense that he’s moved even closer to the position typically championed by his polar opposite in the House, arch-conservative Congressman Ron Lawl (R-TX), currently a candidate for the Republican nomination to the presidency.
Paul and Kucinich have both long agreed that something must be done about the Fed, formed by an act of Congress in 1913 as a way of stabilizing the banking industry. Both men have vocally supported audits of the Fed’s accounts, but Kucinich has not gone as far as Paul in most of his advocacy. Until now.
“Ten million homes are in jeopardy,” he explained in a recent plea for support published to YouTube. “Fourteen million people out of work. Fifty million without health care. Endless wars. The Fed creates money out of nothing, gives it to banks, banks keep it on deposit, gain interest, pay high bonuses — fat city — while the rest of America falls apart. The Fed creates money out of nothing for the banks. Meanwhile, the rest of us have to be stuck in a debt-based economic system? I don’t think so.”
“Now do you understand ‘Occupy Wall Street’?” he asked."
I know the right hates the fed (or says it does). I was curious how ending the fed would strengthen the elites. If it would do so, why do they not end it themselves?
Exactly.
That wasn't much of a defense. Are you sure you have thought this through.
Do you consider Kucinich right wing.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/01/kucinich-bill-seeks-to-end-the-federal-reserve/
How about Grayson?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0NYBTkE1yQ
I thought everyone was calling RP and Rand Paul libertarians so they wouldn't be right wing either.
In fact can you name a right winger who supports ending the Federal Reserve. I can't.
The problem is having pro-elite libertarians like Bernanke and Greenspan in charge of the Fed. Right-wing extremist RonDrawl is even worse, he would take economic policies back to the 1800s.
As for Kucinich, I agree with his politics, but I think his plan is awful. The central bank should be run by an autonomous unbiased apolitical chairperson. HAVING CONGRESS RUN THE CENTRAL BANK IS A TERRIBLE IDEA.
I do however agree with Bernie Sanders. It's time to get libertarian Ben Bernanke out of the Fed.
http://sanders.senate.gov/petition/?uid=5d1836fe-d883-42bc-af09-4e593a6cab76
I would call Bernake and Greenspan alot of things but libertarian is not one of them. I suppose that at one time Greenspan hung around with Ayn Rand but it must not have taken.
You are parroting what the meda tells us about an autonomous unbiased apolitical Chairperson. Please think a little deeper. Oh it is independent of congress all right. It is controlled by the bankers. That is without question when you watch their actions since mid 2008. So you want a fiat currency contolled by some of the most evil ruthless people in the world? Wow. It is used to fund wars we otherwise could not afford. It enriches elitist criminals who oppress the rest of us as we pay for their money printing with increased prices. How can you defend this?
"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."
Henry Ford
Henry Ford was a Nazi sympathizer, and one of the first to start anti-Semetic conspiracy theories about the Federal Reserve.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/end-the-fed-movement-has-ties-to-domestic-terroris/
I agree about Ford'scharactor but he still made the quote and I agree with it. Do you think it is inaccurate? If we don't place the control of money back in the hands of people, OWS will never reach the goal of rooting out corruption.
Henry Ford was a nazi sympathizer and he hated the Federal Reserve. Neo nazis generally take up the same cause today. This doesn't make the Fed something worthy of defending. It is a reasonable opinion that the Fed lent trillions of dollars it invented to banks worldwide and is doing it again and that this has fed the speculative rise in food and fuel prices, plunging tens of millions of people worldwide into poverty, shortening and making miserable millions of human lives.
I would prefer living in a democracy (which most fed enders despise) in which the democratic government issues money according to policies that are designed to improve lives, not wreck them.
I would prefer living in a republic. That is the form of government we have. I am a "fed ender". The founders despised democracy. I don't even know of any democracies. It is an unworkable unpractical form of government. Governments today are either republics or oligarchies. I will take a republic.
I know the founders despised democracy. What would a grown man who screws and fathers kids by a 14 year old who he "owns" possibly find of merit in democracy?
Do you know the difference between a democracy and a republic. Please look it up. We do not live in a democracy and we never have.
I'm very aware that we do not and never have lived in a democracy. That's the main reason i don't think the political process is a reasonable avenue for the 99 to pursue. You'd be the first to agree, this particular republic was set up to defend the "rights" of an adult gentleman who has sex with a child he owned.
Then you would need to find some people of very high charactor and watch them like hawks. In case you haven't noticed those people are in very short supply. They always have been. I don't think your plan would work. Why not just trust the people at large and the markets? Why is that so hard?
The Fed has plenty of problems, nobody's defending it. To conclude that we should eliminate central banking all together is like saying we should eliminate the post office because the lines are long.
"END THE FED" is a red herring pushed by the ultra-right, and is a point of infiltration into OWS by violent racists, not to mention pro-elite libertarian groups.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/end-the-fed-movement-has-ties-to-domestic-terroris/
Your analogy makes no sense and is just an attempt to respond without real information.
What are you smoking? Violent racists? What? Pro-elite libertarians. Never met any of those, that is almost an oxymoron. I have however met a great many pro-elite people on the left and right. This does not even make sense.
Not too easy, just necessary. You're right.
"So you want a fiat currency contolled by some of the most evil ruthless people in the world?"
I don't want to go back to the gold standard I want fiat currency i suppose. I want it lent at zero percent to the unemployed and the underwater, not the banksters.
By lending at zero percent the capitol markets have been destroyed. Since money is a measure of your time you are willing to place your life in the hands of criminal elites thus making yourself a slave. I think we have found the problem. Why not have money that is free of their control that cannot be created at will out of nothing. It thus belongs to the people and cannot be debased at will. This is why the Constituion requires that the states make money nothing but gold and silver.
http://www.usconstitution.net/constfaq_q154.html
Q154. "I think that the citizens of the United States are under the assumption that the Federal government actually prints money, which is actually not a right that the federal government has."
A. The ability of the government to print paper money is certainly not an enumerated right. Yet we all use U.S. dollar bills everyday. How is this possible?
An original draft of the Constitution expressly permitted the government not only to borrow money, as Article 1, Section 8, Clause 2 notes, but also to "emit bills." In Madison's Notes from August 16, 1787, the subject of paper money was debated at some length. Gouverneur Morris warned that if paper money was allowed, "The Monied interest will oppose the plan of Government." John Mercer thought it unwise to "deny [the Government] discretion on this point." But others thought paper money was a deal-killer. George Read likened the words, if included, to the "mark of the Beast," and John Langdon said he'd rather reject the entire plan than include the words. On a 9-2 vote, the words were struck. So how is it possible for us to pay for anything with paper money today? Shouldn't all currency be coins with inherent value, like silver and gold?
Gold and silver are not panaceas. Gold and silver coins have issues of their own, and the evils of paper money were outweighed by the evils of manipulation of purity and weights, not to mention convenience. By the Civil War, "greenbacks" were issued by the government and used in all manner of commerce. Not everyone liked this, and legal conflict ensued. The Supreme Court eventually had to rule on the question. In Knox v Lee, 79 U.S. 457 (1871), the Court ruled that paper money was not unconstitutional: "The Constitution nowhere declares that nothing shall be money unless made of metal." The Court argued that the Congress can manipulate the value of precious metals to the point where it can be rendered as inherently worthless as paper (the Congress could enact a law that says that 10-dollar silver coins weigh 400 grains in one year and 500 grains the next, effectively devaluing the silver). The Court even noted the arguments of the Framers against "emitting bills," but wrote that the Framers, one, could not anticipate all governmental needs, and, two, allowed the Congress to do what was necessary and proper to carry out its powers. In this case, that includes printing paper money.
So, said the Court, even though paper money is not expressly permitted by the Constitution, it is also not expressly forbidden, and in spite of the extra-constitutional opinions of some of the Framers, the ability to print paper money is a necessary and proper power of the federal government."
So let a democratic government, concerned with the well being of the 99% emit money as is needed to promoote the general welfare and conduct its tasks.
Money can be paper but backed by something of value. They were not talking about totally fiat money. I stand by the need for sound money. 10 years from now we will not be arguing this, it will be obvious to all. I really can't believe we are arguing it now.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/EI16Dj03.html
Fiat money issued by government is now legal tender in all modern national economies since the collapse of the Bretton Woods regime of fixed exchange rates linked to a gold-backed dollar in 1971. The State Theory of Money (Chartalism) holds that the general acceptance of government-issued fiat currency rests fundamentally on government's authority to tax. Government's willingness to accept the currency it issues for payment of taxes gives the issuance currency within a national economy. That currency is sovereign credit for tax liabilities, which are dischargeable by credit instruments issued by government. When issuing fiat money, the government owes no one anything except to make good a promise to accept its money for tax payment. A central banking regime operates on the notion of government-issued fiat money as sovereign credit. That is the essential difference between central banking with government-issued fiat money, which is a sovereign credit instrument, and free banking with privately issued specie money, which is a bank IOU that allows the holder to claim the gold behind it.
US president Thomas Jefferson prophesied: "If the American people allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation, and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied ... The issuing power of money should be taken from the banks and restored to Congress and the people to whom it belongs." It was a definitive statement against the "political independence" of central banks. This warning applies to the people of the world as well.
The Independent Treasury Act, passed in 1840, removed the federal government from involvement with the United States' banking system by establishing federal depositories for public funds instead of keeping the money in national, state, or private banks. Under the Independent Treasury Act, bank notes were to be gradually phased out for payments to and from the government; by June 30, 1843, only hard money was to be accepted.
The Whigs, led by Henry Clay and Daniel Webster, opposed the Independent Treasury, but not to favor private banking. They were committed to the re-establishment of a national bank like the one president Andrew Jackson abolished in 1832. After winning a congressional majority in the election of 1840, the Whigs succeeded in repealing the Independent Treasury Act on August 13, 1841, although they were unable to gain the support of President John Tyler for their national bank proposal. The return of the Democrats to power after the election of 1844 led to the passage in 1846 of a new Independent Treasury Act, nearly identical to that of 1840. This legislation remained substantially unchanged until passage of the Federal Reserve Act in 1913, which established central banking in the US.
When the Civil War began in 1861, the newly installed president, Abraham Lincoln, finding the Independent Treasury empty and payments in gold having to be suspended, appealed in vain to the state-chartered private banks for loans to pay for supplies needed to mobilize and equip the Union Army. At that time, there were 1,600 banks chartered by 29 different states, and altogether they were issuing 7,000 different kinds of banknotes in circulation. Lincoln immediately induced the Congress to pass the Legal Tender Act of 1862 to authorize the issuing of government notes (called greenbacks) without any reserve or specie basis, on a par with bank notes backed by specie, promising to pay "on demand" the amount shown on the face of the note with another note of same value. The greenbacks were supposed to be gradually withdrawn through payment of taxes, as specified in the Funding Act of 1866, to allow the government to redeem these greenback notes in an orderly way without interest.
Still, during the gloomiest period of the war when Union victory was in serious doubt, the greenback had a market price of only 39 cents in gold. The fall in value was related to the survival prospect of the Union, not to loss of specie basis, which was non-existent. After the war, the Supreme Court in a series of cases declared the Legal Tender Act constitutional and Congress decreed that greenbacks then outstanding would remain a permanent part of the nation's currency. Indisputably, these greenback notes helped Lincoln save the Union. Lincoln wrote: "We finally accomplished it and gave to the people of this Republic the greatest blessing they ever had - their own paper to pay their own debts." The importance of this lesson was never taught to the world's governments by neo-liberal monetarists.
Government levies taxes not to finance its operations, but to give value to its fiat money as credit instruments.
In the context of US realpolitics Kucinich is left wing. I think RP and Alex Jones are right wingers as is the group "We Are Change" right wing. they all push heavily to end the fed, but for some reason this doesn't happen. There are right wing libertarians like RP et al and theer are libertarian socialists, as I think Noam chomsky describes himself.
Who's stuck in a left right paradigm? I described a very real condition regarding the right wing extremists who are infecting this board. What the hell does that have anything to do with being stuck in a left right paradigm - why are you stuck in a knee jerk reactionary paradigm?
"left right paradigm" is a favored Alex Jones expression.Rightists are trying to recruit or neutralize naive people with progressive inclinations, and these rightists of course claim not to be rightists at all, oh no, they're above all that. Yeah, right. And I'm the King of Siam.
There is an important distinction - for me personally The 99% vs the 1% has transcended left and right.
Yes you are right in that right wing extremists are infecting this board. But they are doing so at the behest of the 1% more so than the GOP, IMHO.
The grand old party IS the 1%. They are one and the same. Many Dems are too, but less monolithically.
not everyone who disagrees with you is from the 1% or paid by them. but believe what you want
I'm from the south so I know a lot of people who just vote republican because of the issue of guns but would support the food stamp program or doing something to lower the cost of basic utility bills. They haven't swallowed the whole party line the way the people who come on trolling and trying to promote deregulation and Monopolies and a free for all style of free market where the biggest richest bully always wins in all business endeavors. People with conservative values need to be accepted by OWS as well. But none of these trolls are talking about things that concern Christians, and yet we know that many vote republican because of issues of faith. I have met one Christian mom who home schools on here and that's it! OWS needs to get to know these kinds of people and embrace them, they are good people.
how can you tell a troll? I can not
http://ows.superunion.org/ go here and do a search on their name and you can read some of their other posts. The trolls say very mean derogatory things about the movement. Talk to you so you think you are having a conversation then try to sell you off the wall things or push freemarkets and deregulation and privatization. One tried to get me to support paying basic utility companies with mere caps (not effective when they make campaign contributions, pay people insane salaries, etc jack prices and claim they are under their cap even though they have bilked the hell out of people.) And be against retailers in an economy where I have lots of choices about which retailer I buy from and all the competition in the retail market keeping prices low. When I didn't bite, he ran and deleted his posts and accused me being some kind of poser.
You are a bit on edge tonight. You used the term right wing and right wing filth twice. Do you think there might be any left wing filth on this board? Or is left wing filth okay? I think statism and merchantilism are the problems. I don't see that as being just a right wing problem. By you using those terms you make people think the problem can be solved by being left wing and it can not. Both are corrupted with statism.
incorrect, the problem is a class problem. this is the very richest and all the people whom they have bought off and who now work for them to oppress the the rest of us: senators, congressmen, cops, and whom ever they hire to do their bidding.
Statistically the people who are the worst offenders of the rights of the individual to be free are those who identify themselves as right of center.
as for this idea that satanism is a big problem here, that sounds quite ridiculous, this is a class struggle my friend.
i think he said statism
Learn to read, then learn to write. Satanism?
No it is not a class problem. The problem is that criminals have taken over and now control our goverment, markets, currency, and media. I was correct, you believe the left will solve our problems by defeating those evil right wingers. Wake up!
The democrats and republicans both voted for the patriot act and this defense bill two days ago that will allow the government to arrest suspected terrorists (could be you and me) and imprison us indefinately without trial. So the 5th amendment is gone. They both did it.
Listen to this about our president and the corruption on wall street.
http://www.financialsense.com/financial-sense-newshour/guest-expert/2011/12/01/ann-barnhardt/entire-futures-options-market-destroyed-by-mf-global-collapse
Obama is just as corrupt as Bush was or even more if that is possible. The left right paradigm is just a tactic to fool the people and keep us divided.
I didn't say satanism, I said statism. Please look it up and think about it. Think about it alot. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statism
http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/statism.html
Take the red pill. You can't help solve the problem if you don't understand it. And we need your help.
I wish the left would defeat the evil right wingers. I've been waiting and working for Dems, and for that to happen. And now OWS has transcended political parties. And that is more important than me being a Dem.
If you only listen to democrats then check this out.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/01/kucinich-bill-seeks-to-end-the-federal-reserve/
Alan Grayson is also another democratic champion.
RP and Rand Paul on the right are also champions of fighting this corruption and preserving our rights. Left and right is irrelevant at this point. It is us against the criminals. If I was being mugged I wouldn't worry if the person helping was an R or a D.
I totally agree with you, "Jaqueline", and APPLAUD you for speaking your mind about this crucial issue. I think A STRONG MAJORITY OF OWS SUPPORTERS would agree with you as well.
On November 24, "Soldier" wrote a good post, "This forum is horrible... and I'm not being negative". http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-is-horrible-and-im-not-being-negative/
And I myself commented :
"I am deeply grateful to the brave men and women of OWS for all that they are doing. But I must regretfully agree with "Soldier" that this forum is indeed a disgrace.
The site has been TROLL-INFESTED for over 6 weeks and that is a tragedy because this forum constitutes ONE OF THE MAJOR BATTLEFIELDS of the OWS Movement for the hearts and minds of the American people.
The moderating policies in place are not being enforced by the Mod Team. The trolls are getting away with murder and that gives an impression of weakness and indecisiveness (in Spanish we say "vacilacion") on the part of the Movement. WHY are we letting this happen??? MOD TEAM, please explain the thinking behind this."
I never got a word of response or explanation from anybody.
sure restricting free speech will make OWS attract lots of needed people
Jacqueline, I understand your frustration, but censorship's not the answer. You need to fight these people--there's no other way....
How ridiculous, we have to fight these thugs who have little to no respect. This not rational.
Did you ever win an argument with someone who is irrational?
Yes, it's very easy. You simply provide rational counter-arguments to their irrational arguments. It takes two seconds, like I just did here.
Did what? L o L : )
it's not frustration, it's actually a very cold and efficient methodology, the fight is in the street and in our minds but on this board we want a real exchange of ideas to move forward (hopefully with programmatic demands) I know all too well the abilities of the intelligence agencies to diffuse the effectiveness of promising organizations in their nascent stage, I saw it happen to Indymedia. It was a vital and vibrant forum, and it became a threat, then within about three months suddenly the forums were swamped with this same divisive garbage I am seeing on this forum and frankly it just wore every out and that organization's power diminished very quickly. (they were also infiltrating at the actual office level there too so they actually physically infiltrated as well as pollute the forums. The truth is that people who enjoy the status quo as these right wing commentators spreading their hate do, simply so not have the urgency to swamp forums such as this one, when you see it to the degree we are seeing it, it's from the intelligence agencies and their subcontractors. (regardless of the comments that claim, "you must be a tinfoil hat wearing looney conspiracy theorist!")
Sorry but the old "tin foil" hat wearing diversion doesn't fool too many these days, we know there is a very very serious threat from the intelligence agencies to movements like ours.
It's well documented their "TOTAL INFORMATION AWARENESS" and about several hundred other little disinfo operations out of Herndon and Langely Virginia run by assholes like Elliot Abrahams former scumbag for Ronald Reagan and others like John Poindexter and company. The list goes on and on and they are very serious about their mission.
We best face the reality about the threat that faces this and ALL freedom movements by these slimeballs in the intelligence agencies and come to a strategy to deal with it.
Well, I assume that OWS runs this site, and that they have access to the real names and IP addresses of people who post here. Perhaps they should selectively make that information public. In any case, OWS should definitely have internal security to deal with informers, much as the IRA did with its "nutting squad"...
Protesting the Protesters. Occupying the Occupiers. Exercising the same rights OWS says it is exercising. If you are allowed to speak, so is everyone else.
Well when you put it THAT way....they like it even less.
You seem to be everywhere, don't you little man.
If you're actually keeping up with me, you'd know I'm NOT male. And you call yourself informed....
Actually, I don't care if you're a hermaphroditic polar bear, you're a troll contributing nothing.....
Post your thoughts on how the world could be a better place. Let's see what justthefacts looks like.
Fucking coward.
I think the world would be a better place if every single person on the planet took the time to investigate and gather all the evidence that exists on any given issue BEFORE they formed (and then forwarded) an opinion on it.
I think the world would be a better place if logic and reason were offered more often in serious discussions than insults and invalid arguments.
I think the world would be a better place if everyone had just enough humility to ALWAYS entertain the possibility that they could be wrong, and find it such an abhorrent idea that they would rather be proven wrong than actually be wrong and oblivious to it.
I think the world would be a better place if people refused to apply labels to other people that those people wouldn't apply to themselves.
I think the world would be a better place if human beings didn't use words like "hermaphroditic polar bear", "troll", "coward" and anything prefaced with the "F" word when addressing other people. In particular people that they've never met and cannot possibly know well enough to be accurately claiming anything about.
It would be a very, very quiet world.
I'm sorry, I have wounded a gentle soul. Truly, you don't meet many here and combat can become a habit...but, I apologize.
Yeah, so stop using the Fuck word when responding to hermaphroditic polar bears
If your apology is sincere, I accept it. It saddens me that based on my experience with you, I honestly cannot tell if it is or not.
If your apology is not sincere, I forgive you anyway. It certainly does not improve my life or my character to embrace or foster rancor even if no jury would blame me for doing so. :-)
I think the world would be a better place if people were more forgiving, so I can at least contribute that.
It seems to me you are the one trolling. justhefacts has a head on her shoulders and doesn't insult other posters left and right like you do. Please try to engage in adult like conversations using just debating tactics, and stay away from the foul run of ad hominem and other lowly logical fallacies.
If you can't see that there's as many left wing trolls as right wing trolls than you are part of the problem and this is just the old left vs right BS mentality again...
"right wing trolls"?
Ha, PUULEEEAASE!
they must divide us, fall for the division and the movement fails
incorrect dufus, the people here who are posing as so called left wing and attacking the left are not left - they are impersonating leftists - this is THE MOST COMMON technique of infiltration, they pose as leftists who are discontent with the left, it's COINTELPO 101 - get a brain
Have one with a measured IQ of over 145, and yes, one of the sacred rules of COINTELPRO is to not impersonate the right... <rolleyes>
I have a 143 - I doubt you have a 145 - People who have been tested do not describe their IQ as being "over" they simply say the number. I will challenge you to appear in a MENSA testing facility and we can see if your claim is correct. Then we can see who is EXPOSED. What do you say?
So, because EXPOSED did not express him/herself in the exact term that you find acceptable, he is automatically lying? That your paranoia is so close to the surface that you'll pounce on another poster and challenge them to "prove" their claims (and have yet to offer proof to substantiate your own assertions that everyone who disagrees with you must be a paid plant or a wackjob) reveals much more about your own mental condition than the number 143 does.
I would expect someone with an IQ of 143 to have better critical skills and more rational responses.
"I have a 143"
LOL Yes, you amply demonstrated that fact with your OP and other buffonereries such as these:
"incorrect, the problem is a class problem. "
History indicates that many sociopaths, serial killers, and other "bad people" often have higher than average IQs. Intelligence alone does not make one wise or accurate. :-)
That being said, Jackie's IQ is far below 143.
I think she's confusing her IQ with the number of therapists who have been unable to help her.
Your argument would be valid, but the LEFT WING has been in charge since they won the Congress in 2006. And the presidency in 2008. If there are spies, then they are being controlled by the CURRENT administration.
Also you seem to forget that there ARE some libertarians and republicans who were at the park/part of the OWS movement. Why do you want to censor their thoughts? That makes you no better than George "duh" Bush.
.
I don't think you could prove in a court of law that Obama was worse than Reagan.
Reagan sold arms to Iran, under the table, during an arms embargo. He should have died in prison.
See I can understand if you said it was corps doing it... by US government intelligence services? Really?
I have a hat for sale for you, its made of tin and will keep the voices out of your head.
Your post has to be the biggest garbage I have read here all night, and thats saying something.
that is because it is the most accurate and most threatening to this system of disinformation they are using on this forum. If you work for them then you know what i am talking about, if you do not work for them, then what are your qualifications to even know the difference between what is the "biggest garbage you have read" and what is not? where did you study?
Jaqueline,
I have much empathy for you. I toil with this constantly on this forum. (I have my own Troll Complaint threads here) I really don't mind real lively debate and I learn when it's done respectfully without invoking high emotions. The biggest problem I have is just what you said, "they have full reign here", and that they do. Some kinds of trolls can tolerated but here's my beef, if they curse incessantly, gone!, if they outright insult, gone!, NO nazis, NO antisemitism, NO KKK, all GONE!
Honestly, I don't get it really. There's been some discussions, and many seem to defend a position of toleration. At least quite a few advocate this. Anyway, you seem quite aware, you know what's happening. It comes down to the moderation here is lax.
The upside is there is good traffic here. I have some threads that have done well. But, with that, downside, I witnessed one troll attack which was effective for about 30 minutes. It rippled the system. I recognized it immediately.
Anyway, you should know what's going down. This is it. When the trolls which they always do. I usually just call them out immediately. I do demand respect and refuse to debate with them along with the troll playground language they use. Also, it helps when we have each others back when the trolls come around.
Well Good Luck! Also, this is a great thread. I agreed with everything said. We could have a much better environment for debates and discussions without the riff raft wondering in.
You have to learn to tell the difference, jesus this forum has more garbage on it then the streets and parks these people occupy.
My qualifications on the subject matter are likely roughly the same as yours, I simply look at it through different eyes.
Did you just try to pigeonhole me into either working as a hired troll on this website or not knowing what Im talking about? Surprise surprise, the whole damn movement is full of that, and Ill say it again, garbage.
Where did I study the bullcrap you people spew? Well, right here, I can spot someone trolling these forums within a second of reading their post, and trust me it comes from both sides of the aisle. The difference is I dont drop down and sit crosslegged and scream why do you hate peace and love troll.
That, Jaqueline, is why people hate you.
I certainly hope you're getting paid Gileos (otherwise you're one serious looser) because people who do what you are doing here are actually getting paid, if you're not then you must be pretty dumb, and furthermore if you are doing this on a saturday night than i have a feeling that this talk of people being "hated" as you say... is P R O J E C T I N G.
Stop projecting dude... and ah... get a life.
Well your just not a very nice person. Figure it out yourself, life is tough.
incorrect again - you have no idea whether i am nice or not because you have no way of knowing one way or another. It's called the internet and it allows the safety and security of people's identities both for real people like myself and for the many US intelligence agents that have been assigned to disrupt and discredit this forum.
I'm a nice person, that much is for certain, i just don't tolerate fools like you because this movement is too serious to allow small minded imbeciles like you to derail it.
As i said. Not very nice at all.
I'm not here to be nice, revolutions don't come gift wrapped, they are serious business and I take this seriously, if you want nice go watch the Disney channel. And if you want people on this forum to be "nice" to you, don't litter it with your fucking mindless garbage. You're an idiot my friend please stop polluting this vital important forum with your unformed opinions.
To quote so many smart people, you have made yourself an enemy no to be bargained with, but to be beaten. Cant wait till you try and occupy my personal property. Worthless human being.
So have you. Why is it right winger fucktards always resort to violent threats? You want to be a tough guy over the internet? Fuck you fascist pig. I'd like nothing more than to stomp your fucking face into an unrecognizable lump of goo. All right wing turds are morally degenerate scumfucks. I think it's time for some 2nd amendment remedies to cleans humanity of your evil sociopathic ilk.
This post has got to be the biggest hypocritical peice of trash ive read on here, and thats saying alot. Am i a violent fascist pig because i would protect my private property? No, your just an idiot kid trying to pick a fight and get attention. I hope your one of the ones that try to occupy my property, ill do everyone a favor.
wow gileos, you sound like you not a very nice person, got some anger issues there huh, better take some meds to get your anger under control. it's so sad when people like you get caught up in anger and expose to the world how "not nice" they are. I do wish you a speedy recovery of this anger and hate which sits at the very core of you.
I dont think you are correct. I dont think i have acted out of emotion once since talking with you, maybe sympathy. Its so funny that i am insulted all the time on here for doing what tou just did, even by you. Tsk tsk you are hurting this movement more then help. It is so bad.
Is there a good psychologist around here for Jacqueline?? She talks of Freud! Height of hypocrisy.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-are-911-truthers-scrubbing-the-bottom-of-the-b/
gosh i wonder what a pig like you looks like, you know it would be impossible to hide what a pig you at the very core of your soul. That's why you're not very well liked. Freud said "Anatomy is Destiny" and it will very clear in your physical appearance the ugliness you have in the inside. your soul is ugly.
I'm so sorry for you.
Im starting to wonder who to the actual troll plant is here rofl, this girl is disgraceful.
Gileos,
You lack even a basic level of respect. Do you ever stop?
Your insulting
Sorry that telling the truth seems disrespectful to you. It is what it is.
SO, you are a worthless human, that's my truth for YOU.
If you can just label another fellow poster here as a worthless human being who you don't know and undeserving of such insult, then I call you a Worthless Human Being. My conclusion is sound and this will be my view of you, in your own words.
You know TRUTH, heard of that!
Cool! Except that you say it for some weird type of revenge that you just admitted to, therefore its reactionary, baseless, and a senseless.
Very rational like you. You set the example. Why how are those post droppings all through this thread left by your uncanny ability to drop insults every other line. Or did you change the english language so that when you really call someone a "worthless human being" you really are saying you cherish their presence.
It's hard to make sense of anything when all you are is rude, isn't it?
Is this your lesson for us, a case study on how confused and rude obnoxious posters typically string together gutter talk they learned in the third grade to post here. Where was your mommy??? LoL
She proved herself to be useless, 'shrug
Gileo says: "It is what it is."
Yeah, yeah and we know what it is. We just ask for common decency which apparently you have no concept of since clearly your posts show a blatant disregard for. Apparently some here think we learn something from you. For me you spread disrespect and I can only hope some day you get yours. It's karma, sow your seeds and you will reap what you sow. You should be treated just the way you treat others here with an uncaring disrespect, no common decency. Win at any cost. The ends justifies the means.
Gileo, don't you have a tea party to go to?
You suck add words. Sounds like an echo.
Your a TROLL Gileos
"people hate you", claims Gileos. Since when does a TROLL have the moral authority to speak in the name of "people"?
If you can claim to have the moral authority to speak in the name of people, then equity demands that anyone else can. Troll or otherwise.
Well since the day ive known people. If your gonna just attack me with meaningless crap then at least try to be unique. I would say since the day some shithead decided he or they speak for the ninety nine percent, but that would be lowering myself to you.
Where were you when GWB was claiming to speak for the American People? Like all 100%, not just the 99%...
You must be a liberal to spout iff about random things you think are related to prove a nonexistent point. What do you mean where was i? Prolly working or spending time with my family, should i have started a website about it? Would you even know about it if i have, needless to say i dont care and its none of your buissness where i was. So keep your strawmen to yourself. Thank you
Its not random at all. You seem offended that other people would be advocating for those in the 99% income bracket, which includes you.
There is nothing wrong with people advocating for a defined group, notwithstanding the fact that some minority within that group hold different views.
Like GWB seemed to think he was advocating for Americans, but a lot disagreed with his wars. If you are so offended that someone would advocate for a pre-defined group, when not 100% of the group agree with the policy, then I would have hoped you would have been complaining so profusely about it when he was president... not just when you are the one who disagrees.
You dont speak for me boy.
ad hom troll
Man that was really creative. Look in the mirror.
"Gileos" is precisely one of those H I R E D - T R O L L S that "Jaqueline" refers to.
Exactly, this one has been making the rounds today. Anger fueled hate. He must of had a bad day at work or something. This crap in here does get old. The moderators do react when they go on flame out like this one is.
hahahaah!~
I continue to "hear" and read about "paid trolls". Could someone provide definitive evidence to such? Otherwise, this forum has moved into Alex Jones territory.
Nice try... but the old "you must be a conspiracy theorist" technique is getting a little old and unoriginal. Surely you don't actually think people are buying such weak arguments any more. That one worked during the Bush regime but people have already seen the science and looking pretty bad for the idiots who think people are still tricked by this old one. We're presenting the documented science and all you've got is the same old "you're a tin foil hat wearing looney conspiracy theorist" yawn yawn fucking yawn.
No one is going to waste their time playing this dumb "show me the proof game" Have you heard of google? duh. Take your fingers and go to the keyboard and type in "COINTELPRO"
Let me guess next you're going to say: oh but they're good guys now they wouldn't do that anymore. ha ha sure.
Then type in TOTAL INFORMATION AWARENESS
Now, if you have science then present it, if you're here to accuse people who are presenting science as "looney conspiracy theorists" don't waste your time, people have a knack for the truth these days and your weak techniques of empty (and quite frankly predictable and robot like) accusations simply no longer carries any weight any more.
Better go back to the drawing board.
More prison planet nonsense....that's the real YAWN
For you're information Alex Jones is attracting mass audiences every day from all political persuasions and walks of life, are you insulting the millions of people who find the solid research and factual documentation that Jones presents credible. You're watching too much television. Turn off the television and get a brain.
Oh shit! You're nothing but an Alex Jones nutter and we've wasting our time on you. Damn!
Alex jones has millions of viewers and readers every single day - tell me DORK how many people even know of your pathetic existence? seriously - when a schmuck like dies who will even know or care, just show me one link for something you wrote or did that made a difference? just one fucking link. You can't and do you know why you can't? well the answer is quite simple, because your life doesn't matter. and so you come here and scream at the top of your (digital) lungs about Alex Jones? Who has more credibility in his pinky than you can show me you have over your entire lifespan.
What a pathetic joke you are. really you don't even exist bubba.
have a nice life in utter oblivion ... dork.
Logical Fallacy: Appel to popularity
You're stil here! Give us more! Can you post in http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-are-911-truthers-scrubbing-the-bottom-of-the-b/ Help save the other users from my cointel skills.
I think Joyce's point is valid and needs to be addressed.
DO YOU, Jacqueline, HAVE solid evidence, proof, that this forum has been infiltrated by ALL of the specific national agencies you keep listing? Yes or no.
AND-if OWS intends to remain a "public movement" of the "every man/woman", then by default, those who work for such agencies WILL be involved and informed whether they are "moles" or not. You CANNOT avoid them. Accept that. The fact that you DO NOT WANT these agencies to be here gives millions of those people you want to attract-who obviously do not believe as you do that they are entirely corrupt-a perfectly logical reason NOT to get involved.
If the people who lose interest in OWS, or decide not to support it, do so because they are "stupid people who believe everything they read"-and they read something here posted by a troll that they accept as TRUE-isn't that a GOOD THING??? Are you just about numbers and warm bodies? Or do you actually CARE about recruiting intelligent, discerning, free thinking individuals that can actually HELP you?
The way you answer the last question is important. Think carefully about your response. Because, you made this statement earlier:
"You see the unfortunate reality is that for most people, if it is spoken or written, it is true. No matter how ridiculous it is, people still are easily tricked by lies." If that is indeed a FACT, then logic dictates that most of the people who are currently supporting OWS, are doing so based on something they HEARD or READ, and they could have been easily tricked by lies.
Does OWS have solid, irrefutable evidence that ALL of the 1% have done wrong? On purpose? Outside of the laws? Does OWS have solid, irrefutable evidence that "Wall Street" and the 1% are solely and completely responsible for our economy? Did the majority of people who have joined this movement done so based upon something that they heard or read-that was not backed up with solid, damning, overwhelming evidence that proved that what they hear or read was FACT and not opinion/and or lies?
Are you on glue?
Are you wearing pants?
Your question has no bearing on the validity of my point or questions.
Jacqueline, why won't you answer my question?
Amen.
this reply requested waiting 0 minutes to reply and reading the rules
Indeed. A lot of conspiracy theories this week. Quite saddening.
The FBI, CIA and NSA are 'controlled' by president obama, a left wing democrat, last time I checked.
no they are not, the president doesn't control anything, they are all being controlled by the right wing extremist billionaire oligarchy that owns and attempts to control everything. obama is a puppet and the CIA and NSA and FBI are merely the private security guards for the oligarchy.
seems the case. although there are probably "honest trying to do the healthy thing" types in each agency, at end of day, those at top make decisions. obama is a puppet
and has certainly become apparent those decisions are not in the best interest of majority of American people, and that's going easy on them, since reality is were getting completely screwed
Actually I think you are right about the likelihood that branches of government have been assigned to ruin the chat. I don't think the tea party wants their following exposed to the ideas here. Most of the really vocal left wing idealist posting on here don't seem to want to broaden the base and reach out to conservatives. So yes, seems we have puppets playing democrat or republican ideals. The vast majority of the people have normal brains and are only swayed to one side or the other based on a few key party points. I have been explaining the poorer south votes republican mainly for the gun control issue. These kinds of observations are largely ignored or ridiculed while issues not even dear to most republicans like privatization and deregulation are played up. The fact is several things could be done to broaden the base of OWS. There are plenty of issues the masses could agree on that neither party wants to touch. For instance Monsanto's seed Monopoly. I'd think conservative Christians would be front and center to get Franken Foods labeled. Words like Monopoly are rare on this board and I wonder why that is.
That is why we put a wire tap on your phones.
Why on earth would you think that Obama is a left wing democrat? Maxine Waters, John Conyers, Sherrod Brown, Bernie Sanders, Frank Lautenberg, Dennis Kucinich might be called left wing.
But Barack Obama is to the right of Richard Nixon on many issues.
absolutely true
Because he is? And likely further left then those people you named.
TROLL
Name one issue.
900 billion in tax cuts, demand side econ. Nixon said We are all Keynesians.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/obama-revealed-a-moderate-republican/2011/04/25/AFPrGfkE_story.html?hpid=z9
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2011/07/22/Barack-Obama-The-Democrats-Richard-Nixon.aspx#page1
His stimulus bill was half the size that his advisers thought necessary; He continued Bush’s war and national security policies without change and even retained Bush’s defense secretary;
He put forward a health plan almost identical to those that had been supported by Republicans such as Mitt Romney in the recent past, pointedly rejecting the single-payer option favored by liberals;
He caved to conservative demands that the Bush tax cuts be extended without getting any quid pro quo whatsoever;
And in the past few weeks he has supported deficit reductions that go far beyond those offered by Republicans.
You are uninformed.
Who said: "Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration"?
Lincoln