Forum Post: Who, How, What, When, Where, Why.
Posted 11 years ago on Nov. 26, 2012, 12:11 p.m. EST by richardkentgates
(3269)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
These are the things still not being addressed. The only things allowed to float on this forum are less than talking points. They are narratives commonly accepted by the demographic to the left, which is apt since the forum has been forced to the left and anything else is forbidden. I guess you could compare what is happening on the forum to kettling.
ows is a leftist movement. Deal.
ows is a movement of the 99% for the 99%. Got it?
As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.
As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage. They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses. They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation. They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization. They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices. They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions. They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right. They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay. They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility. They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance. They have sold our privacy as a commodity. They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit. They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce. They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them. They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil. They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit. They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit. They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media. They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt. They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas. They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.* To the people of the world,
We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
What part of the above did you not understand?
As I read through that NYCGA statement, I was reminded how closely it seems to feel like the Declaration of Independence. Thanks for providing that. Really great summation of all of the corporate crimes against humanity. Great post/comment.
I wish that I could twinkle that comment a dozen times - to give it proper recognition. Because if RKG is not actually blind - then he is just a dummy or a subversive.
Would you mind reading that to me?
Did you hear it?
I might have dosed a little.
Must have - I wonder who does his(?) typing for him(?) - I mean if that person read to him(?) and he(?) does not believe what they told him(?) - Well - what a mess to say the least.
Funnier yet - a request to be read to and no phone number. Maybe he thinks the site has a Skype hub connection for on-line chats - Hey?
I mean talk to type programs don't read and then speak - do they? I mean then it would have no problem distrusting what it heard - unless of course it does not trust it's program.
lol I think he was trying to be humorous. I started to go into the whole well, ok, I will feel like a dumbass talking into my mic but figured I would skip it.
Ah extending the benefit of the doubt - that is very nice of you. You have a good heart. {:-])
It's the Pisces rising minus drug use.
Ummm - OK - that has nothing to do with RD smelling fishy - does it(?) or does it?
lol, no. I made a post the other day. I meant every word of it. Every word. It stands.
Now, my inner child is a mean little bitch. I said things today that I never thought that I would have to and to someone that I didn't want to. I need a minute of my love, peace and chicken grease disposition.
And some Santana or Fleetwood Mac. Possibly a Captain and diet with three limes.
Starter? - revel in it for a moment.
I am sorry for the reason you are feeling the need - I had a nasty run in recently with some individuals that I normally have no problems with whatsoever.
I'll join you in spirit ( ha ha ) but with a large shot of southern comfort - something good came out of the south. {:-])
ROFL.
Ahhh.........not an mj fan.
Well that may be premature - I do not know if I have helped. I can generally puzzle my way through these things - but I am far from being knowledgeable.
[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (10429) 2 minutes ago
K. Thanks. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
Stripping down to basics - finding and reclaiming self.
I think it may be time for a cool change.
Yeah. Abraxas.
Funny thing. I have no mad tech skillz. My father does. He is ex military. He is a mathematical genius. So, by 1988 there was this great computer that nobody had and he was writing code. I can't. I'm the girl that literally killed myself to get a camcorder this past Monday and then finally got it working but couldn't take a picture worth a damn because the lights reflected off my glasses and if I removed the glasses I couldn't see where to hit the button to take a pic. A shitty pic. My son even said that the pic I took didn't even look like me.
If I have a problem with my computer then it is 24 hours of shit and 12 will be spent crying and begging to the almighty tech god. I do the same shit with my car.
But, you know what? I talked to a lot of people before anyone gave a damn. Newsgroups before they were popular. Alt.
The moral of the story is this: I have a simple laptop and I just have to work smarter. It might take me a bit longer but it will still be solid. Now, there is a new generation that has never found it necessary to rely on old school methods. That is unfortunate.
You rock.
Or how bout from one free spirit to another.
Neither am I - just sometimes he actually hits a good chord.
OK - How Bout - Ever drive a flatbed ford?
Nope, but I went to Winslow, Arizona and stood on the corner because of that song. Thanks. You rock.
You should have an options/features menu accessible on the view screen.
[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (10421) 0 minutes ago
Um..........where the hell is the light enhancement feature located? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
K. Thanks.
LOL - try it with the light turned off and the light enhancement feature turned on. {:-])
[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (10421) 2 minutes ago
Yeah. Abraxas.
Funny thing. I have no mad tech skillz. My father does. He is ex military. He is a mathematical genius. So, by 1988 there was this great computer that nobody had and he was writing code. I can't. I'm the girl that literally killed myself to get a camcorder this past Monday and then finally got it working but couldn't take a picture worth a damn because the lights reflected off my glasses and if I removed the glasses I couldn't see where to hit the button to take a pic. A shitty pic. My son even said that the pic I took didn't even look like me.
If I have a problem with my computer then it is 24 hours of shit and 12 will be spent crying and begging to the almighty tech god. I do the same shit with my car.
But, you know what? I talked to a lot of people before anyone gave a damn. Newsgroups before they were popular. Alt.
The moral of the story is this: I have a simple laptop and I just have to work smarter. It might take me a bit longer but it will still be solid. Now, there is a new generation that has never found it necessary to rely on old school methods. That is unfortunate. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
Um..........where the hell is the light enhancement feature located? and can I find it with my glasses off?
Silly for a moment - picture with a hydrogen fuel cell and perhaps an electric motor. Yay GREEN!!!
And I just was just finishing my day of thanks giving leftovers - I thought this would be nice for ALL.
And every now and then - we should all take a ....... and blow out the stress.
Is it just because we are not the fortunate son ( one ) or daughter that we advocate for a better world (?) or because we have a soul that recognizes others - all others? I believe we are here for the later reason.
Giving way to a moment of hope and transcendence.
A moment to be sad and reflect - cry and purge?
Pick one and post hard data about the source of the problem. Or just keep pretending and posting fluff and otherwise ego-boosting nonsense.
I do it all the time. Your narcissist ass is just a little too busy playing drama queen. It isn't a Dem movement. It is too far to the left for that. Again, what part of the above did you not understand?
99%,! Not even close. I’ve begun to dislike the 99% slogan, It’s not true and everyone knows it. It’s arrogant to think OWS represents 99% of the people. Wishful thinking at best. I appreciate the idea of wanting to help everyone, but the slogan has run its course. Time for a new slogan.
99% is the new slogan. Anything you would present would be a re-brand of the old partisan bullshit.
OWS, as a leftist movement, would most likely only include about 10-12 states out of the 50 and predominately blue, urban dots in a sea of red. Either try to win the others, or OWS, as a leftist movement, will hit a brick wall
Seems to me that would be your loss. Here is the deal, what I propose would have been considered centrist 25 years ago, You come to me.
25 years ago, Reagan was in office, the Cold War was about to be won - a battle of democracy vs communism - where the public good trumped the individual. Welfare was looked upon as a shame, a temporary crutch until a person got back on their feet
Darlin', Reagan increased the size of government and tripled the debt. Instituted right wing neoliberal policies by giving it snappy slogans like 'trickle-down' to lead people to believe that tax cuts for the weatlhy would lead to prosperity. He fucked up tax policy and put us on an economic path that has led to extreme levels of wealth disparity not seen in over 100 years since the Guilded Age. Bush Sr. rightly called it voodoo economics. What was that 'public good' stuff again?
Looks like you are a dimwit just like that clown vq
Not my fault you don't know history. It's easily verifiable. Look it up. What was the debt when Reagan took office? What was the debt 8 years later. Not my fault you don't know what neoliberal economics is. Look that up too. Not my fault you're generally ignorant.
Maybe you should try to inform yourself better. If you're capable. Sadly, that looks doubtful.
What was the debt while "slick willie" was in office. He started the majority of the mess and spent more time lubing up his cigars, then anything else.
The rate of debt increase slowed under Clinton and there were budget surpluses. According to the CBO, Clinton left office with 10 years of projected surplus. Bush Jr. fucked that all to hell. Squandered the projected surpluses and doubled the debt, which went from $6T to $12T. He sent us into 2 unneccessary wars without paying for them. Not only did he not pay for them, but instead he lowered tax rates. That's what's called right wing fuckshitup-onomics dont'cha know that by now. Jeesh.
Have you figured out what neoliberalism means yet? Or would you like to talk more about the debt? I'm good either way. You choose.
That may be true, but a little thing called 9/11 happened his first yr in office. Nicely teed up by slick willie. Willie had a balanced budget cuz he had a Republican Congress to force the issue. Gingrich takes as much credit as willie does.
There was also a little thing called an epidemic of mortgage fraud going on. Which the FBI warned the Bush administration about as early as 2002. Instead of investigating further, the Bush administration diverted agents to terrorism and counterterrorism. Rather than increase the number of agents. It would have been a small price to pay in order to prevent or at least minimize the economic and financial meltdown.
They warned the administration repeatedly with more and more urgency. Trying to get someone to listen. With less and less manpower. Sadly, the neocons had no interest in financial fraud.
And those terrorists were so afraid of the neocons. Cheney et al., that were running the country. They were so afraid that they swooped right in and killed thousands of people right on our own soil. The best neocons the military industrial complex can buy did nothing to protect us from 9/11. And the MIC was overjoyed. Only - how could they get in on that action except manufacture a couple invasions. Even if it had nothing to do with 9/11. Just for snicks invaded Iraq.
Dems aren't perfect. But at least we're not batshit crazy for peanuts sake.
obama racked up more debt in four years than any other pres in history. I can hardly wait for his first speech and I wonder if he will say again. "I inherited a mess" the turd
Here are the facts about which administration increased or decreased the national debt.
http://arthuride.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/debtgnp-under-reagan-bush-clinton-bush.gif?w=500
Gee, no obama years in that chart....wonder why?
Here you go.
http://zfacts.com/sites/all/files/image/debt/US-national-debt-GDP.png
He created 3 years of budget surplus That your boy Bush blew up.
Then obama knocked it right out of the park dimwit
WRONG! Bushs last budget deficit ($1.4T) was his parting gift to the country, Pres Obama has cut that Bush deficit to the current $900B est for 2013.
Pres Obama would have cut more but for traitorous repubs who wanted him to fail, (make him a 1 term Pres) and blocked all proposals to strengthen the recovery.
When Bush was Pres the economy was steam rolling forward and gas was at 1.80 per gallon. When nappy got elected gas shot up to over 3.00 per gallon and stayed there. He also wasted more tax dollars than all other pres combined
I remember $4+ per gallon of gas during Bush. And I remember the worse economic crash created by Bush & his corp 1% plutocrat cronies. The Bush great recession began in 2007 and didn't end until Pres Obamas stimulus took affect in mid 2009.
All the negative economic problems since the Bush great recession is a result of the Bush crash & the obstruction of traitorous republicans who've blocked every proposal to strengthen the economy.
Thanks to the obama admin, now we are seeing more of this all the time http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/kansas-town-forced-to-remove-cross.html
During those years the dummycrats also controlled the house dimwit
The problem with "the public good" trumping the individual is that such a collectivist group mentality may not be ultimately beneficial to society at large if the power-elite that controls the media and influences millions can seize intellectual control of the nation for its own devices/purposes. This is, in fact, what happened and what continues to happen, and the individual suffers for it. The strange thing is, the propaganda and mind control is so complete, so insidious, and so powerful that public viewpoints (created by manufactured consent in the MSM as Chomsky has detailed) actually believe and espouse that "the public good" should trump the individual. When society has gone so far downhill by the relentless MSM propaganda programming for so many decades that the majority of people cannot see the danger or are even aware of the potential danger that ultimately leads to the removal of basic individual human rights, then the power-elite has succeeded in their mind-control efforts, and society is close to dictatorial control by the power-elite via programming of the populace by the media (which they control). Then it is Orwell's 1984. And that is what you have now in our society to a large extent. People are making efforts to break free of that mind control via alternative media (and forums like this one), but it will take a long time to reverse the 50+ years (at least) of propaganda that has been relentlessly shoved in the faces of the US population.
Republicans & Corporatist are not Conservative today. Below Buttercup lays out the truth pretty well. We should never have gone to Vietnam & Bombed and Mined and Polluted Combodia, Laos, and Vietnam. We had no threat from Vietnam. The Federal Government stole money from the Social Security Trust to pay for VIetnam since the debt was rising. Neoliberalism was born 1970 in the Chicago School of Economics. Reagan probably was pulled into Defense Spending as an Economic Stimulus. In fact Reagan found that tax revenues were lower as a result of his Defense Spending than expected... So he had to Raise taxes during his presidency. There is an article about this from one of the former Federal Reserve Directors from St. Louis. From what I know Reagan was spending way too much all at once to be useful. He actuall didn't spend as much as he intended I believe. The Star Wars program for instance was totally a fantasy and got more money than it should have at the time.
1) Is it possible that the Democracy vs Communism cold war was over done by creating Korean War, Vietnam War, Covert Actions in Europe, and anti democracy covert actions through Central and South America? ...Yes.
2) Banana Wars, Smedley Butler, List of Covert Actions by the CIA.
3) CIA is a clear case of Mission taking over all other considerations such as sovereinty of foreign countries, free elections in foreign countries, assiasinations, election fraud, drug dealing, arms dealing, etc.
4) WWII Ended and there was a strong defense industry, strong US Military, and a strong US Economy. Seems like we wanted to capture military technology and absorb German Scientist into the US. But maybe it was a mistake to create the CIA and Institutionalize a full Army, Navy, Air Force complete with Defense Lobbyist. You know we have congress pushing military purchases on the Military due to Lobbying???
5) For me, seeing the Military Hate Clinton, then Clinton approved defense spending at the current levels with slight increase in his last 4 years, ... and they the Republican NeoCons came in with a Vengence Backlash ... like they were determined to start wars and spend money like Crazy.
6) For me, it is the Corporate Defense Lobby that Enables and Drives the republicans to Corruption.
7) Republicans are not True conservatives if they vote for war, war spending, and big defense spending increases. We need to cut Defense Spending to $500 Billion a year, then see if we can reduce that to $400 Billion.
8) But it is the Financial Lobby that has the Power. It is corporations that make US Policy and make Republicans look bad. Republicans could have a good platform in 2016 if they actually worked on Domestic and Foreign Policy.
Incorrect. Reagan was a war monger and he sucked at economics, but had a boyish charm and I attribute that to his imagination, something our leaders lack sorely today. That unconventional and misunderstood idea eventually became realized I'm sure not to far from what he pictured in his mind. We have directed energy weapons now and a CIA space program. All from projects that, funny enough, trickled down from the Star Wars program.
Yes, but you probably are not a program manager and don't know that programs have to start on a realistic basis with realisistic idea that the technology exists some where in the market place. The original program I believe was called Brilliant Pebbles ... the press called it star wars. The original program called for a earth based platform from which to operate, direct, or aim the technology. I am not an enegineer, but the earth did not prove through testing to be stable enough for this one component of the system. Surely you can see how spending millions on millions in the first 5 years from the first year equates to 10s of millions of dollars wasted.
You didn't read the wiki page. Too bad.
Thanks for the Wiki. I'm just finished. I never looked it up after 20 years of that info. Looks like you probably like this stuff and know more than I do. I'm not really a tech guy, maybe in the next 10 years.
Was going to say... China and the US have been spending big bucks in the last 12 years for defense and ...didn't used to be that way. Used to be pretty strict rules for government budgets. China can leverage a lot of the technology they have gotten over the last 20 years from the West ... Korea and Japan have done that as well. I guess European Space program is good one, but small budget.
Probably China is the big player today with all of their Investment.
It was all the glory days of youth.
http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/republicans-fail-reagan-litmus-test
http://www.americanpolitics.com/20020319Hersh.html
The battle of democracy vs communism....I just spit my coffee all over my keyboard.
Gimme a freakin break.
When are they going to start buying up student loans?
PS: How you self identify is meaningless.
Not soon enough.
If the banks can buy sell bad debt as bundled so can we.
Left/Right paradmatic symantics are exactly what the tyrants want. Screw a paradigm.
"Poor and middle-class Americans know all about the fiscal cliff. They've been getting pushed off it for years with an unfair tax system, unconscionable trade deals and the Fed's monetary policies." - Dennis Kucinich
Some people don't get it, but I'm glad to see at least some do.
How much? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XyPTkNc2--U
I watched that just last night. Not the most convincing movie but a very interesting plot.
Did you think that this is Brittbart?
Whoa!!
Another vapid, accusatory, low info post from richard?
Yes!!
Are you the sockpuppet, or is it another of your "persona's"?
Quick, fall back to partisan attacks, we're losing the battle against facts! LOL. Laaaaaamee...
You mentioned left derisively in this post above. T
Are you so stupid you do not know that OWS is a progressive (left leaning) movement?
Don't you agree that all our problems are rooted in conservative policies?
Occupy is rooted in Anarchism which has left and right leanings. But again, we have covered this ground many times before. The kettling is over.
I do not recall covering the leanings of the Occupy movement. However in my opinion anarchism is firmly on the left side of the political spectrum.
So I think you mighta got that wrong Fluffy.
I take it from your anti left rhetoric you lean right? How unfortunate for yuo. Y'know the banksters & other 1% oligarchs are all Right wing extremists right Fluffy?
I disagree - anarchism is fully on the right.
Who cares what you think? You are a right wing wacko moron in any event. And absolutely wrong on where Anarchism is on the political spectrum. LOL
Gitout - it's exactly where I left it, which is no where near left. And if you're not left you must be right, right? That's me, I'm right.
Wherever Anarchism lives on the spectrum, I support Zinn & Chomsky outlook on it.
Even more importantly I support progressive solutions to all the problems we have (which were created by conservative policies).
So you know where you can stick Anarchism right?
Can you stick on you Hoes, can you stick it on your Foes?
What are you trying to say? Please form a better sentence.
Except that the anarchism of a Chomsky is not anarchism; it's totalitarian government, it's virtual serfdom.
I think you might have misunderstood Chomskys positions.
I can tell you that Chomsky is absolutely against both totalitarian govt, & serfdom.
Why would suggest such a way off description of his beliefs.?
I take them from his interviews, his very words - that strong regulation is a necessary element. You see some of us are examining those words a little more intensely than others because our position is not the same as yours. True anarchists in my mind are opposed to all coded governance.
You are not dealing with a full deck.
So he says "strong regulation" and you mis interpret that as totalitarian & serfdom.?
LOL
You are clearly delusional.
I don't remember his exact words but he reemphasizes this point. This is definitely my version of anarchism.
I think you misunderstood his words.
You examined his words right into delusional, extremist, conspiracy theory world.
LOL.
Good luck in all your good efforts.
No I did not misunderstand his words - Chomsky chooses his words and they are available on youtube.
The problem is that you only hear what you want to hear. And in this case, what you want to hear is not what he is saying.
Who cares? You're still out of touch with reality.
Anybody who thinks an organizational anarchy is worth discussing is a little touched.
Your version, and yours alone. LOL
Nah, there are those who agree. My point is that many anarchists are not anarchists at all but rather statists.
There are different types of anarchism. I think Anarcho-capitalism is the ultimate right. Right wing neoliberal/supply side economics is the interim step to achieving anarcho-capitalism. Anarcho-syndicalism is on the left.
Libertarian economic principles is just a short hop-skip away from Anarcho-capitalism. Right wing neoliberalism is just a hop behind that.
Oh... nah that's not my right. My right is more along the lines of Appalachian anarchism; where do you think a Chomksy would fit here?
Appalachian anarchism? Sounds primitive. Maybe it's just quaint?
Chomsky - I thought he was just part of the anarchism entertainment complex.
Generally speaking, I consider anyone favoring worker rights as opposed to favoring the 'masters' (Adam Smith) or the 'bourgeoise' (if you prefer Marx), to be left. Which would put Chomsky on the left.
The Lords v serfs, the masters v workers, the bourgeoise v proletariat, the capital owners/controllers v the schmuks, whatever you want to call it. The wealthy so-called job creators v everyone else that is supposedly dependant on them and must give them more government assistance and tax breaks so they can create jobs. Supply side v demand side. Different century, different labels, same story. It's not a new thing. Predates capitalism. Certainly predates capitalism as we know it.
Yes it does, very much so.
Quaint is a word I like. A lot.
So now people say that anarchism is either on the right or the left? How about its just its own freakin thing? Ugh.
Besides, when this corporatist government is what everyone uses as a baseline for what r/l is, is it even worth debating? Each side has totally perverted it.
The kettling is over. Your user names have no more credibility. Everyone following these conversations has already seen your true positions or lack there of. You're wasting your time.