Forum Post: White House Says It's Unconstitutional To Strike Down The NDAA
Posted 11 years ago on Sept. 17, 2012, 6:07 p.m. EST by john23
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One of the most notable aspects of the NDAA is frequently overlooked: the NDAA makes it virtually mpossible for Obama to keep his promise to close down Guantanamo. But he signed it anyway.
Why would Obama close Guantanamo? As any fool could plainly see, closing Guantanamo was never an option.
True but, Obama SHOULD close Guantanamo 1rst because he said he would. Secondly, The Right of America to even HAVE Guantanamo has always been dubious. America finagled and insinuated their way into the Cuban independence and arbitrarily TOOK the property that became Guantanamo. Yet America maintains a 47 year embargo that does no one any good.
http://www.toddpnyc.com/bloqueo/main.html
Well, I agree, we should be commercializing Cuba - it's beachfront belongs to us. But it was apparently deemed more important to deny our enterprise; therefore an embargo with intent not to do good but rather to inflict harm.
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Excuses
There is no excuse for signing indefinite detention into law for American citizens.
That goes for congress too.
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specifically the trouble with the #NDAAis the section(s) 1021, 1031,1032.
http://www.lawfareblog.com/2011/12/does-the-ndaa-authorize-detention-of-us-citizens/
U.S. District Judge Katherine Forrest issued a permanent injunction against section 1021 of the National Defense Authorization Act. Forrest has said that the NDAA “violates the First and Fifth Amendments” and “fails to pass constitutional muster and that the legislation had a “chilling impact on First Amendment rights.”
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Uhh, well, we were right here in NY; where were you?
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There are no cost saving alternatives when you introduce attorneys, the media, and a military presence - we don't want these murdering bastards in NY, let alone as protected under OUR Constitution.
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The Constitution was intended to federate all to provincial concerns while limiting governmental interference; it was never intended to afford protections to our foreign enemies.
The Geneva Convention descends to us directly from Washington and yet I think if you review, you'll find that he strongly disagrees with you; the Bill of Rights was never intended to allow anti-war demonstrators the right of public display, to sensationalize the vulgarity of war, or to mock American jurisprudence, civil or military; it was never intended to politicize war or to dull or chill the blade of the warrior who must defend his country.
This is war and our enemies are either going to rethink their position or they are going to die; if it is not war then it is posturing at the expense of the people, and that is wrong - which is it? Does Obama even know?
I beg to differ on some key points:
http://www.civilliberties.org/sum98role.html
You speak as if you GNOW (sic) the mind of the Founding Fathers-yet, just WHAT is to be read 'between the lines' of the constitution has been a debate since its inception. Today we are going through a paradigm shift in terms of ideas on war, civil disobedience etcetera.
If you spend enough time studying their published writings, that's exactly what happens - you, as intended, develop the ability to read their minds. And those grey areas are greatly diminished.
That site is very poorly written: in 1774, there were over 200 riots (acts of civil disobedience) in Boston alone. This is what they deemed to be "active democracy." The paradigm shift, if there was one, occurred over 200 years ago when, with the explosion of the Tory mercantile oppressor, mob action fell out of favor to gradually embrace the new hope of a peaceful civility.
You can't teach civil disobedience to a population that is not aggrieved.
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Yea but it's a whole lot better than murdering those you have disarmed; the warrior must do one or the other; can the enemy disarmed faithfully be "paroled"? That is not a pentagonal question, it's not multifaceted; it's a question posed to those whom they endanger.
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If I was a soldier who knew the enemy was to be afforded so much courtesy, I'd kill them all.
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How do you try an alleged war criminal in a civil venue without compromising intelligence? How do you deal with a mere declaration of intent, as free speech, protected under our Constitution?
Do we kill them all or simply set them free after capture? Is this a political war, hopefully if we beat them up a little they will acquiesce? Or are we engaged in "war" against terrorism?
We are either playing to win at any and all cost or the American military should not be involved in the war on terrorism - it should become a national police matter.
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In 1918, my German great-grandfather, then serving as French interpreter at the HQs of General Pershing in France, which conducted some 250+ intelligence investigations during its brief history, was accused of espionage and labeled an enemy alien. He was arrested, sent to Hoboken, and then transported to Oglethorpe where he was not only interned for the remainder of the war but actually detained until after the AEF was fully disbanded, before being "paroled" to CA.
He was not a terrorist - not a killer - but a suspected double agent.
This present "war" has not been concluded; why an average of only eight years? Why have we usurped military powers to afford "rights" and courtesies to the enemy? And if they are not the "enemy," then we are not at "war" - why then are we using the military to play around in the Middle East? The military is not a presidential play toy and they are not a civil "police force" - it is a killing machine and not treating it as one needlessly costs American lives. Some of those lives will come from your very neighborhood.
It's one thing to say young males, and today, females, are expendable to the national defense, it's another to say they are expendable to our whim-of-the-moment national politics and political posturing.
This is just one more element of that wishy-washy posturing which it presently appears has taken a decided turn for the worst.
The military paychecks went out on time. Why is Obama fighting so hard to get the injunction overturned?
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If Obama didn't want the 1021 indefinite detention provisions included, (but signed it anyway), all he had to do when Hedges, et. al sued, was to not defend. He continues to fight very hard to be able to enforce those provisions.
Obama is now seeking an emergency stay of the injunction while the appeal. is pending. Evidently he wants to detain some Americans and soon. I don't know how you could argue that the president is not in favor of the 1021 provisions.
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I don't understand what you mean by "allowing the clock to run out". On what?
I don't think Obama is going to arrest one of his most vocal supporters.
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I don't think the appeal on the statute would be decided before the election. The emergency petition asking for a stay of the injunction is what will force another hearing on the issue before the election.
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more likely already has some detained
Wouldn't surprise me a bit.
Don't you know obama promised not to use the power granted. Just because he doesn't mind assassinating americans doesn't mean he will lock us up. Or does it?
it's like player characters saying they will only use their unbalanced extra powers in an emergency
Next up, strike down the Patriot Act.
Wow, Obama claiming the injunction is unconstitutional because it infringes on the president's power to lock people up as long as he wants without any due process. How anyone could vote for this man is beyond me. This is some scary shit.
I don't know how peoplecan support him. He says a judge stricking down a law that is clearly unconstitutional is an unconstitutional act. The arrogance of the man is astounding. The really sad thing is that so called progessives (not allbut enough) will make excuses for him. If you don't believe me I recently read a comment that obama openly assassinated us citizens because he was against assassination and wanted to start a national debate. I'm still furious whenever I think about that comment.
excuses can be so lame
war is peace
truth is lies
freedom is jobs
I saw the film "Compliance" this weekend. http://www.magpictures.com/compliance . It is based on real events and shows how far people will go in deference to authority, and how few people will say "no". It is disturbing and difficult to watch but I think everyone should see it. Maybe awareness of this dynamic can lead to fewer people going along with things that are wrong.
looks good...will def check it out.
No surprise really. That mans whole life is based on hubris, arrogance, and a free ride.
That is a perfect description of the ruling class.
bam has no use for the constitution. he sees it as an impediment to him having total power .
Well yeah, it's supposed to be.
yes, its supposed to be which is why he goes around it. bypassing congress .
Actually congress voted for the bill with overwhelming bi-partisan support. It's gotten to the point that I cringe whenever I hear anything is supported by both parties.
I think the fact Pres Obama hasn't used this authority, and only republicans (who created it) have (sonce 2002) is the overriding fact to remember.
The case will be thrown out! It is unconstitutional. The Admin has put up not witnesses or evidence. They are clearly pushing it to the Supreme court for a show down with the right wing.
We must protest against the Pres and all pols against this and the patriot act and every repub created civil rights violation that they came up with after they (repubs) exploited the 9/11 attacks to fear monger through this fucked up agenda.
Attacking 1 politician for this decades long republican created obscenity is just a partisan attack.
The statute already was ruled unconstitutional. The pres is asking the 2nd circuit for an emergency stay of the injunction so he can use it asap. Sorry, you can't blame just the Republicans for this one.
I'm attacking Obama because he is the president. He is the named defendant. He is in charge of these decisions right now, not a president from the other party. Unlike you, I base my objections on principle, not party.
You attack only one & neglect the fact the repubs created the policy 10 years ago, wrote the law last year, defeated the dem attempt to repeal this past May, Only party to use it, You neglect also the fact that it is a dem appointed judge who has struck it down, and that this Dem Pres HAS NOT USED IT!
So pretend if you want but you are clearly partisan by ignoring sall these pertinent facts.
I mean Lets get Real!
Peace
And good luck in all your good efforts
Section 1021 goes beyond previous statues and policy. Judge Harris's opinion explains it quite clearly. She's great. I'm very glad she was appointed. Did I also mention that I am supporting my representative, Martin Heinrich-Democrat, in his race for the senate? I support him because he voted against the NDAA. You are the partisan, not me.
I never said I wasn't partisan. I am proudly anti repub partisan!
Your ignoring of the pertinent facts I mentioned clearly betray a partisanship in your presentation of this critical issue.
Sorry. that's my opinion.
That's real!
Peace.
And good luck in all your good efforts.
You're ignoring the fact that obama is the one who is fighting the ruling that section 1021 is unconstitutional. If he was against the provision all he had to do was not appeal the ruling.
He hasn't used the authority! Only your repubs have! Your repubs created the policy 10 years ago, wrote the law last year, defeated dems attempted appeal this past may.
I'm against indef detention, I have protested this Pres & all pols against it! I have signed petitions as well. I will continue to.
Unlike you I won't limit my complaints to one individual. I will not ignore the decade old fear mongering that allowed this. I won't give the party that created it a pass.
If you really are against this obscenity, you would also include fair criticism of the repubs who created and used the authority.
Instead you use this as a partisan bludgeon against one pol/party & cover for the real criminals!
Transparent, political, partisan attack!
I don't care if he used the power only that he supports it. As for not bashing reps I haven't seen people on this site supporting romney so I haven't seen the point of attacking him. Maybe I'm being unfair not attacking them. It's just that I supported obama in 2008 and I feel betrayed by his attack on my rights such as being able to face my accuser in open court in front of my peers.
Romney? What does he have to with anything? HE would use it That's all we should say about him and indef detention.
So you only criticize Obama 'cause pro Obama people comment here.? You criticism isn't about being against indef Detention.? I guess you don't really care about the issue. Only it's value in bashing Obama (cause he has supporters here).
Leaving out repubs in your criticism betrays your partisanship.
Unlike you I won't limit my complaints to one individual. I will not ignore the decade old fear mongering that allowed this. I won't give the party that created it a pass. Because I care about the ending indef detention. not just bashing the guy that has support on this site.
If you really are against this obscenity, you would also include fair criticism of the repubs who created and used the authority.
Instead you use this as a partisan bludgeon against one pol/party & cover for the real criminals!
Transparent, political, partisan attack!
I'll attack any mainstream politician who has support because we need to people who care about the constitution in office. The reps definatly don't care about it and new years eve convinced me the dems don't either. This was a bi-partisan bill yet I see you attacking reps and making excuses why we should vote dem. What we need to do is admit the 1% already won this election and try to set up the green party for wins in 2014 and 2016. If jill stein gets a large turnout this election we will be ready to take the next election because peoplewill realize you don't have to vote dem or rep. As of right now without the confidence a large otherparty turnout will bring the next elections will be won by dem/rep and our job will get that much harder.
I haven't mentioned voting for dems! That's just a bald face lie!
I said I protest this Pres and all pols! Your the partisan who only attacks one party.! What a joke. trying to twist this around.
You wanna vote green go ahead. Are you campaigning for the Green party? It's ok with me (I just saw her on S17 down at Bowling green, She's the best candidate running) but I've been told repeatedly by you and your friends not to campaign. So I don't.
But if you attack one pol/party then I'm sure it's ok for me to remind you the facts you left out. Wouldn't want you spreading the lie that Pres Obama is the only one responsible for the indef detention right.? I mean history didn't begin with Pres Obama right?
And by the way the defense bill was bipartisan but the indef detention portion was overwhelmingly republican. That's another little misleading comment from you. Still trying to coverfor your repubs huh?
Transparent, partisanship much?
Did the dems vote for the bill or not? If they voted for the bill they supported everything in it no matter what they say. It's like the reps leading us into iraq and saying they care for the deficit. Sorry but if you vote for a bill you are resposible for the whole bill and any consequences of it. As for me supporting reps where have I supported a rep candidate, policy, or position?
Hey if we can stay civil I'm willing to express my opinion on this issue without getting disrespectful.
I think that is the way we should disagree. In so far as the co opting of this site. That will evolve as it will no matter what you or I do.
I suggest we just stick to the truth and fairness. Certainly do not give dems a pass. Pres Obama has been profoundly disappointing. But do not give repubs a pass. That won't work. And a partisan donnybrook will ensue.
Peace, A pox on both their houses.
I agree.
It is your neglect at criticizing repubs for their part in these problems that represent your support for repubs
I've explained that 3 times already in THIS exchange! And every other time we've interacted. You know what my opinion is about your partisanship.
Your pretense not to be partisan and not to know why I say you are is more dishonesty.
You ain't kiddin anyone but yourself.
I do see where you are coming from. Its just that I am more worried about OWS being co-opted by the dems then the reps and I see OWS as the most likely to create a fundamental shift from a two party system. I do listen to advice (even if it does take a while when I am focused on something).
Disgusting.
Verpflügte IDIOTEN! warum wollen wir Gesetzen folgen die uns die Rechte weg nehmen?! Idiots! Why should we obey laws that strip us of our rights!