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Forum Post: What Obama Hath Wrought

Posted 1 year ago on Sept. 5, 2012, 7:54 p.m. EST by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

By Glenn Ford

The meticulously scripted spectacles of the two corporate party conventions are very poor backdrops for clear thinking – but luckily, the ordeals are almost over. What remains after the tents are folded, are the crimes of this administration and its predecessor: both horrifically evil in their own ways. History will mark Obama as the more effective evil, mainly because of the lack of opposition.

Most people don’t want to be a perceived as party-poopers – which is why the principled folks that have protested the evil antics of the corporate, imperial parties, in Tampa and Charlotte, are so much to be admired. Frankly, who wants to be the one to point out, in the middle of the festivities, that Michelle Obama was just a Chicago Daley machine hack lawyer who was rewarded with a quarter million dollar a year job of neutralizing community complaints against the omnivorous University of Chicago Hospitals? She resigned from her $50,000 seat on the board of directors of Tree-House Foods, a major Wal-Mart supplier, early in her husband’s presidential campaign. But, once in the White House, the First Lady quickly returned to flaking for Wal-Mart, praising the anti-union “death star” behemoth’s inner city groceries offensive as part of her White House healthy foods booster duties. She also serves on the board of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs, the corporate foreign policy outfit to which her husband dutifully reported, each year, in his pucker-up to the presidency. The Obama’s are a global capital-loving couple, two cynical lawyers on hire to the wealthiest and the ghastliest. They are no nicer or nastier than the Romneys and the Ryans, although the man of the house bombs babies and keeps a kill list. Yet, former “green jobs” czar Van Jones, a convention night chatterer on CNN who was fired by Obama for no good reason, chokes up when he speaks of the Black family that fronts for America – a huge act of national camouflage.

It is as useless to anchor a serious political discussion to this year’s Democratic and Republican convention speeches, as to plan the liberation of humanity during Mardi Gras. Truth is no more welcome at the former than sobriety is at the latter. So, forget the conventions and their multi-layered lies. Here are a few highlights of what Barack Obama has inflicted on the nation and the world:

Preventive Detention George Bush could not have pulled off such an evisceration of the Bill of Rights, if only because the Democrats and an aroused street would not have allowed it. Bush knew better than to mount a full-court legislative assault on habeas corpus, and instead simply asserted that preventive detention is inherent in the powers of the presidency during times of war. It was left to Obama to pass actual legislation nullifying domestic rule of law – with no serious Democratic opposition.

Redefining War Obama “led from behind” a 7-month Euro-American air and proxy ground war against the sovereign nation of Libya, culminating in the murder, after many attempts, of the nation’s leader. The president informed Congress that the military operation was not subject to the War Powers Act, because it had not been a “war” at all, since no Americans were known to have been killed. The doctrine was thus established – again, with little Democratic opposition – that wars are defined by the extent of U.S. casualties, no matter how many thousands of foreigners are slaughtered.

War Without Borders Obama’s drone war policies, greatly expanded from that inherited from Bush, have vastly undermined accepted standards of international law. This president reserves the right to strike against non-state targets anywhere in the world, with whatever technical means at his disposal, without regard to the imminence of threat to the United States. The doctrine constitutes an ongoing war against peace – the highest of all crimes, now an everyday practice of the U.S.

The Merger of Banks and State The Obama administration, with the Federal Reserve functioning as a component of the executive branch, has funneled at least $16 trillion to domestic and international banking institutions, much of it through a virtually “free money” policy that could well become permanent. This ongoing “rescue” of finance capital is unprecedented in sheer scope and in the blurring of lines between Wall Street and the State. The routine transfer of multi-billions in securities and debts and assets of all kinds between the U.S. Treasury, the Federal Reserve and corporate accounts, has created de facto structures of governance that may be described as institutional forms of fascism. These are world-shaking works of Obama-ism. Even Obama’s “lesser” crimes are astounding: his early calls for austerity and entitlement-axing (two weeks before his inauguration) and determined pursuit of a Grand Accommodation with the GOP (a $4 trillion deal that the Republicans rejected, in the summer of 2011) reveal a politician intent on ushering in a smoother, more rational corporate hegemony over a thoroughly pacified civil society. Part and parcel of that pacification is the de-professionalization of teaching – an ambition far beyond de-unionization. Of course, Obama begins with the delegitimization of Black struggle, as in his 2004 Democratic Convention speech (”…there is no Black America…only the United States of America.”) To the extent that the nation’s most progressive, anti-war constituency can be neutralized, all of Obama’s corporate and military goals become more doable. The key to understanding America has always been race. With Obama, the corporate rulers have found the key that fits their needs at a time of (terminal) crisis. He is the more effective evil.




Read the Rules
[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

mainly because of the lack of opposition.

Obviously someone who didn't see the budget ceiling debate of last year.

Here, in case you want facts.


[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

facts? why do we need facts when our owner tells us what to think?

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

o idunno - there must be some reason

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 1 year ago

I believe this is a reference to the fact that many people (democrats mostly) see Obama as a good guy, as opposed to the bad guy foil of Romney,. when in fact most of the current Corporate Democrat policies where Republican policies a few years back., and the war making, the drone murdering, the corporate bankers control are steadily on the rise,. the fact is that Obama is the nicer face on the same 1% corporate fascism that we have lived with all my life,. it maters not the party in the office the 1% control grows and metastasis,. . we need systemic change. we are getting more of the same.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

In order to look like an acceptable alternative to President Obama, they couldn’t say much about the ideas they have offered over the last two years. You see they want to go back to the same old policies that got us into trouble in the first place: to cut taxes for high income Americans even more than President Bush did; to get rid of those pesky financial regulations designed to prevent another crash and prohibit future bailouts; to increase defense spending two trillion dollars more than the Pentagon has requested without saying what they’ll spend the money on; to make enormous cuts in the rest of the budget, especially programs that help the middle class and poor kids. As another President once said – there they go again.\


repelicans aren't rational. The only way to begin getting sensible legislation through Congress is to remove conservative grip on policy making.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 1 year ago

You seem to confuse conservative with corporate,. conservative is not such a bad thing,. (this coming from a anarcho-socialist/communist btw),. but "conservatism" is not what the current repugs (or even the dems) are about,. they are both so far into the fascist corporate control system that a term like 'conservative' has little meaning left.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

it is the one they are using.

I'm happy to hang them with it.

Widespread suffering and cultural decimation on the basis of greed parading around as conservativism isn't new . . .

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 1 year ago

However you alienate actual conservatives,. by wrongly slagging their political bent. Call a spade a spade,. or in your case a military-corporate-fascist, a military-corporate-fascist!!

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I'm not a conservative - don't blame me if they've got a black eye.

blame idiots like grover norquist

If they cannot curb the natural tendency toward greed and avarice that arises when policy making facilitates robbery of the public

it's not my fault

Are you a conservative?

  • you have only yourself to blame.
[-] 2 points by jph (2652) 1 year ago

as I said,. I am more of an anarcho-socialist/communist ,. but you miss my point, so I will let you wallow some mor.e

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

No I didn't miss your point at all.

You prefer to enable the most prolific liars and thieves our nation has to offer.

given the historical reality and the consequences of such behavior, not to mention the fact of 20 years of lies over global warming, I refuse to play along.

It's time to stop enabling bullshit.

[-] 2 points by jph (2652) 1 year ago

being conservative is not what the GOP is about, they are corporate-military-fascists. I guess you missed that,..

Semantics matter, and too many folks around here "play along" with the destruction of meaning and the mutilation of language. How does pointing this out "enable" anything but understanding. Not very Zen of you Dog.



[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Your argument is really bizarre - it's basically saying that the crazy wing of the party isn't crazy, it's someone else . . ..

I don't really care how you want to quantify it - the fascists are wearing the conservative label.

They are also wearing the repelican label.

[-] 0 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 1 year ago

I think you would be surprised by some of the viewpoints of citizen conservatives, as opposed to the right wing politicians. Many conservatives are not at all happy with the Rep party. We have common ground. See for example, this from The American Conservative:

"Make no mistake: Mitt Romney is worse. A Romney-Ryan administration would be a step backward to the policies of the early Bush years. President Romney would increase military spending, restart a cold war with Russia, possibly undertake a hot war against Iran, deep-six as many multilateral agreements as he could, and generally resurrect the Ugly American policies of the recent past. But President Romney wouldn’t fundamentally alter U.S. foreign policy. After all, President Obama has largely preserved the post-9/11 fundamentals laid down by George W. Bush . . "


[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

that article looks like some very slick spin to me, and further, Anarchist’s Progress reads at the end as if written to reassure certain individuals that their investment is thus far safe enough as it is.

My opinion of my own government and those who administer it can probably be inferred from what I have written. Mr. Jefferson said that if a centralization of power were ever effected at Washington, the United States would have the most corrupt government on earth. Comparisons are difficult, but I believe it has one that is thoroughly corrupt, flagitious, tyrannical, oppressive. Yet if it were in my power to pull down its whole structure overnight and set up another of my own devising — to abolish the State out of hand, and replace it by an organization of the economic means — I would not do it, . . .

I.E. . . . he's a deregulationist

The believers in action are numerous, their gospel is widely preached, they have many followers. . . . Perhaps among those who will see what I have here written, there are two or three who will agree with me that the believers in action do not need us — indeed, that if we joined them, we should be rather a dead weight for them to carry. We need not deny that their work is educative, or pinch pennies when we count up its cost in the inevitable reactions against it.

We need only remark that our place and function in it are not apparent,

and then proceed on our own way, first with the more obscure and extremely difficult work of clearing and illuminating our own minds, and second, with what occasional help we may offer to others whose faith, like our own, is set more on the regenerative power of thought than on the uncertain achievements of premature action.


Where is that Puritan lovin funkytown . . . and what correlations are there between this article and Pilgrams Progress. . .

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 1 year ago

I'm not denying that there are significant areas of disagreement. There are. I'm just pointing out that there are important areas of agreement between liberals and conservatives. If there are areas where we agree, doesn't it make sense to welcome people who share our interests and try not to alienate them?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

ummm . . . letseeee

the conservative says:

  • yes the banking institutions are global squids sucking the economic life blood out of society - but we cannot - dare not - say this out loud. They are over extended - let them fail, and loosen their grip on the economic levers of global hegemony . . . . and in the chaos we will, with shock doctrine achieve a far greater measure of liberty for the pursuit of our economic pleasure through deregulation . . .

While the Liberal sayz -

  • it isn't fair - if they are too big to fail, let us bail them out and then break them up.

ummm . . ..boy that's tough

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

so if there is such a huge difference between conservatism, the tea party, and the repelican platform and the Norquist tax pledge -

how come this is the first anyone has ever heard of it?

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 1 year ago

It's not the first time anyone has heard of it, but you do need to have an open mind and seek out information and conversations outside your usual comfort zone. The extremists get more press, and they play up the differences to promote their divide and conquer strategy by demonizing those evil liberals or conservatives (as the case may be).This keeps us from talking with each other and working together for our common interests.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I think your ezine link above - http://www.theamericanconservative.com is quite likely a slick and sophisticated propaganda tool.

we know who the enemy is :

Repelicans to undermine the Occupy Movement:

+ The Koch Suckers

and we know who the TeaParty is:


More on the TeaParty:

And we know Otpor was funded by repelicans:, including:

see also:


If you are a conservative, and you don't like the tea party influence on party policy - then I guess you either need to start a new party, or you should have done something much earlier to prevent the Koch monster from taking over.

You didn't - by choice or otherwise - it's irrelevant now.

And it's been over 20 years of lies from the party and the Koch foundation funded scientists regarding global warming.

  • you fuckers are toast.
[-] 2 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 1 year ago

C'mon you know the two party stranglehold makes starting new parties very difficult. A lot of R's are now moving towards the Libertarian party though. I vehemently oppose some aspects of the Liberterians, but I am in solid agreement with other parts. (Ending the wars, auditing the Fed ) Why not work together on those things we agree on?

Look, ZenDog, I'm no fan of Republican politicans and the Tea Party chiefs. I'm just sayin there are people out there - ordinary people- who are registered Republican but they do not like what their party is doing. They are potential allies. Why alienate them?

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

The ordinary folks - they come pre-conditioned with the right wing lies - it's not my fault. That's just how it is.

Boner and McConnell have harped on the culture of dependency -

lead from behind

the banking meltdown was the governments fault


they never should have taken loans they couldn't repay

bailouts of the auto industry were bad policy

I've discarded friends over this kind of belief system. It's false, I do not accept it, and will not enable it.

[-] 0 points by SingleVoice (158) 1 year ago

I'm so tired of hearing talking points with no actual basis is truth. Your buddy Obama is directly linked to the housing meltdown and both parties are at fault for the repeal of Glass-Steagle.

The 2 biggest policies that got us into trouble in the first place were the repeal of Glass-Steagle in 1998 by both parties of Congress and signed into law by Clinton and the Housing and Community Development Act of 1977 under Carter which was enhanced in the early 90s under Clinton and enforced after the Obama led class action lawsuit against Citibank in 1995 that pushed banks to lend to high risk people and started the sub-prime lending practices that ended up tanking the housing market. The lawsuit was brought about after the law was again changed under Clinton to "deal with the problems of the inner city and distressed rural communities". With the landmark lawsuit, Obama's win forced banks to give subprime loans to Chicago's African Americans who otherwise couldn't afford the loans. http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/03/documents-plaintiffs-in-1995-obama-led-citibank-lawsuit-submitted-class-action-claims/


What everyone seems to ignore is that in 2003, the Times reported that "The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago."

"Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry."

What many do not recall is that Bush wanted to tighten oversight with a new regulatory board for Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and other government recipients for the express purpose of addressing bad loan practices — and Democrats blocked it. Among the groups denouncing the proposal were the National Association of Home Builders and Congressional Democrats who feared that tighter regulation of the companies could sharply reduce their commitment to financing low-income and affordable housing.

”These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis,” said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ”

It was the Clinton administration, obsessed with multiculturalism, that dictated where mortgage lenders could lend, and originally helped create the market for the high-risk subprime loans. It was the Bush administration that wanted to rein in the madness in the credit markets, and the Democrats who wanted to extend the Clinton policies that created the crisis we have now. After the shit hit the fan these same Democrats want to shift blame back to the administration that wanted to increase oversight and curtail risk in lending practices while reducing patronage at the giant GSEs. The Bush administration isn’t blameless in letting this get out of hand, but clearly the origins of the disaster and the efforts to keep bad policies in place fall on the Democrats in this case. As usual history is rewritten to suit whoever needs it for political gain regardless of the truth.


We should be demanding reinstatement of Glass-Steagle of both parties and we should be demanding the abolishment of the Community Reinvestment Act. These banks are still making subprime mortgage loans. These 2 acts are what made the banks too big to fail and we need to put an end to it now. But let's tell the truth about how we got here so we can really fix it. And stop campaigning for Obama. He's as bad as the rest if not worse.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I'm so tired of hearing talking points with no actual basis is truth. Your buddy Obama is directly linked to the housing meltdown

that is a false assertion - colloquially known as a LIE

and both parties are at fault for the repeal of Glass-Steagle.

three repelican legislators were responsible for crafting the bill

what else is in that texty-rant?

[-] 2 points by SingleVoice (158) 1 year ago

Typical response from Obama supporters who act like they want to change things but refuse to acknowledge any facts that are shown to them. Both parties are at fault but I'm tired of the recycled lies that keep us from having intelligent discussions on the way forward. I gave you facts with links to support them. You gave no facts or supporting links just the typical "you lie" rant.

Obama is as much in bed with Wall Street as the rest of them. He tries to come off as a regular guy that is out for the middle class when in fact, he's as dishonest as the rest of them. He's a typical politician that tells you whatever you want to hear to vote for him. He's broken nearly every promise he made and he's still throwing out bullshit. And the sheep are still following even though nothing's gotten fixed, no one's gone back to work, the banks are still gambling houses and his administration has stopped prosecuting Goldman Sachs.

Let's get rid of everyone in Congress that has been in office more than 2 terms (12 years) for a Senator and 4 terms (8 years) for a Representative. And let's get rid of everyone else who is not representing our interests. The longer they are there the more corrupt they become. Everyone that voted to repeal Glass-Steagal should be fired including Dodd and Frank who came up with the new reform that does nothing to reinstate Glass-Steagle. It's more smoke and mirrors they feed the masses and the masses don't do their own research so they keep voting these bums in.

We need to ask the people running in our states if they support reinstating Glass-Steagle and if they don't, don't vote for them. And don't listen to the crap they feed you to make you think that anything else will suffice, like the Dodd-Frank bill for example which is a load of crap. Has anyone noticed that they haven't even written most of it yet?

Also, ask the people running in your state to repeal the Community Reinvestment Act which led to the subprime mortgages. People should not be granted mortgages that are high risk and banks shouldn't be forced to loan to them.

None of what I said in my post was a lie...you are the one perpetrating lies with no facts to back them up. Get off the Obama train and think for yourself.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

He's broken nearly every promise he made and he's still throwing out bullshit.

Um, actually that isn't true.

You sound a little desperate.

Also, ask the people running in your state to repeal the Community Reinvestment Act which led to the subprime mortgages. People should not be granted mortgages that are high risk and banks shouldn't be forced to loan to them.

Oh I see. You're one of them. Those loans aren't risky as long at the bankers can accept an interest rate that is below par. Unfortunately,


obscures their vision. Suddenly, I really just don't like ya.

You are obviously one of those people who think that some Americans just don't deserve

  • the American Dream.

You know what I say to that?



[-] 2 points by marvelpym (-184) 1 year ago

That story about Obama suing Citibank is fascinating. I can't believe I never heard about it. Linking that lawsuit (and Obama) to the housing meltdown is in no way a lie. That's like saying linking Rosa Parks to the Civil Rights Movement is a lie. Everything starts somewhere.

And the vote for the repeal of G-S was like 90-8 in the Senate and 343-86 in the House (Pelosi, Dodd, Kennedy, Kerry, Reid, and Schumer all voted yes) Saying only one party is responsible is a LIE, or (at best) just being DUMB.


[-] 3 points by SingleVoice (158) 1 year ago

Thanks for your added info on these topics. It's good to hear from people that actually use facts to back up their statements. Let's continue to fight for the reinstatement of Glass Steagle and let's get all these career politicians that caused this mess out of Congress.

[-] 1 points by marvelpym (-184) 1 year ago

I'm with you. Some people on this board are so obsessed with the Republican trying to screw them that they completely ignore the large Democratic phallus being used at the same time.

[-] 1 points by SingleVoice (158) 1 year ago

You have to look at the whole history to understand how things developed. I've pasted a link to the timeline.


If you read thru the timeline, you'll see that it was a long process actually starting in the 70's but really taking off in the 90s with various changes to the community reinvestment act and multiplying in the late 90s with the repeal of Glass Steagle. Even in 2003 when there were calls for an investigation of Fannie and Freddie, Barney Frank was saying that everything was fine and there was no need to investigate. Congress was getting rich. They didn't want to change anything.

The entire timeline shows everything including that the Fed was behind a lot of it. They were actually warned by one of their staff of the impending problems, but Greenspan fired the employee and ignored the signs. Everyone was getting rich and no one wanted to stop it.

The combination of banks being forced to loan to high risk customers and the repeal of Glass-Steagle to allow them to be gambling houses, let them repackage the high risk loans into derivatives that they could then sell and make money on. This was where all the wealth of the hedgefunds from the 90s and the 2000s came from. Congress and banks were behind all of it and congress was getting rich and making deals with their banker buddies who could now sell their bundled high risk packages and make huge profits.

Up until the lawsuit in 1993 against Citibank, no bank would loan to a high risk customer. After the settlement when the bank was forced to loan, the only way to hedge the loss was to bundle the loans and sell them to investors. This is why that lawsuit was so important. It wasn't the only cause but it was a contributing factor. I would even argue that because banks were being forced to loan to high risk applicants was the incentive to lobby congress to repeal Glass-Steagal. They now needed to sell these high risk loans to investors and weren't allowed to as a strictly depositor bank. It would make it easier for them to hedge their bets.

We have to separate these investment banks from depositor banks immediately. It's the only way to break up the banks. Only depositor banks should be FDIC insured. Investment banks should be left to fail when they lose their bets. It's so simple. Where is the outcry for reinstating Glass Steagle.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

After the settlement when the bank was forced to loan, the only way to hedge the loss was to bundle the loans and sell them to investors.

You mean

  • hedge the risk

the only loss to the banks generally, if they were paying attention when they wrote the loans, was in lower interest rates - which they overcame with the subprime loans - which in turn ensured, on the basis of the ballooning interest rate, that these loans would fail. Since they could demonstrate they would fail, they stopped looking at the math, and began incentivizing everyone involved - to write the loans.

then they bundled these bad loans ridding themselves of the bad debt.

Most of that debt would have been fine, if they had left the interest rates alone.

[-] 0 points by marvelpym (-184) 1 year ago

History didn't begin in 2004, so keep following subprime and high risk back and you'll see the link. Think about what caused the increase in high risk loans. Nobody's saying it's all Obama's fault, but he was there at its origins. That is just not a LIE.

Oops. I left out one important D who voted for the repeal of Glass Steagle: Pat Leahy. You vote for him?

I hope you are happy to at least hear some things with actual basis in truth. I just wanted to help you out there.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

YEah - ya

A lot of people were hoodwinked into that repeal -

And Leahy received an anthrax letter. I know who I vote for.

you fuckin right wing scumbags

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

we know the anthrax was produced in US weapons labs

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Yes it was - and it appears that to weaponize it required a bit of technology that was not at the lab where the alleged sender procured it.

I'm not sure what exactly the equipment was - but if this is correct, if that equipment was not in his lab - then it appears the clown who sent it had help.

Which kind of explains why Leahy switched planes at the last minute - just over 15 years ago he took a trip to London, and rather than stay for the funereal that was scheduled, he boarded another flight, unnannounced. to Oslo I think, where a conference was set to begin on the banning of anti-personnel land mines.

Princess Diana was expected to be attendance but unfortunately she couldn't make it. She had a funeral to go to.

[-] 1 points by marvelpym (-184) 1 year ago

Princess Diana died in 1997. Leahy got the letter in 2001.

What kind of explains what?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

you are an irritating bitch and honestly I have no idea why the fuck I would provide clarity for your pea sized mind I really don't

why don't you have a poem instead.



Elegy for the Queen (of Hearts)


They sat through candlelight so starry eyed

in Europe's lovely Jewel; lonely Paris.

He asked four words; his stolen heart's demand:

"Will you marry me?" She did whisper, "Yes."

Her lips then lingered on his olive hand

and with that kiss their sorry fate was sealed.

'If,' 'if only,' such words are naught but sand;

upon that kiss did rumored lips depend.

The die was cast, the spiral flashed and wheeled.

Too soon they fled beyond all care or woe

from tabloid pages turned in shame, to legend.

No more glance at worldly cares will she bestow.

They sat through candle light so starry eyed,

so unaware the twists of fate; the nations cried.


No more the blighted bells will her hands ring;

the social ills of Aids, Mines, and Poverty.

Without her voice, we'll never better sing

and fill her subjects hearts with love to rally.

Her like in this sad life we will not find.

Could we return to that one fateful day!

Could I unwind the ceaseless hands of time!

For love of life I would but beg, Please Stay . . .

For but a year! or even one small hour . . .

to breath again compassion's flaming ember

and cause the people's wealth of love to flower.

We will do well if her we but remember.

Her sons and causes surely pay the cost,

without her loving arms, so sadly is she lost.


The Prince no longer fears the rising son.

His place is safe, the boy no longer rides

to soar upon his mother's silver tongue.

The Queen, she sits within her room and hides

dark truths too sad to share; sad, and too impure.

The Prince looks not behind his Mother's frown,

and does not see his place no more secure

than Mother Queen and monarch's cracking crown.

The Erin leader screamed for "Peace," surprised

while labor claimed the Eire word was true.

It did not last; the cracks too small in size

to make an end of bloody Erin stew.

For naught, such drunken sacrificial cost.

Upon that wicked web of war she has been lost.


© D. Winter

September 3, 1999, 2001


[-] 1 points by marvelpym (-184) 1 year ago

Your postings read like the journal the police find after the shooter has acted. Don't know if you're putting on act or if the Dr needs to up the meds, but it does keep things interesting. Still don't get why Pat switched planes to avoid a letter he would receive four years later on another continent, but like I said, you're a fun read.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Your postings read like the journal the police find after the shooter has acted.

  • Are you NOT entertained

    • are you not entertained



  • where's the white audi

French police found paint chips - no car to match. and they turned France upside down looking.

ONe day advocates of the people will no longer be lead to slaughter as if they were no more than sheep.


[-] -1 points by marvelpym (-184) 1 year ago

what an ugly thing to say. I abhor ugliness... does this mean we're not friends anymore? You know, Zen, if I thought you weren't my friend, I just don't think I could bear it.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I'll get you some rope.

It's no trouble, honest.

You can thank me later.

[-] -1 points by marvelpym (-184) 1 year ago

Totally entertained.

No white Audi? So you're saying Pat Leahy got her with the anthrax? Like a Back to the Future Audi with an anthrax letter from 2001? Fascinating. You gotta take this to the press man, but be careful. The powers that be are gonna want the lid shut tight on this one.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I've told you

it's right there in the poem

read it - go ahead

study it - long and hard

and when you are done

roll it in a nice tight cylinder

and shove it right up your ass

[-] 0 points by marvelpym (-184) 1 year ago

No problem, I'll start now.

What should I do with the Candle in the Wind remake?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I have to go finish burying the dog.

second one in two weeks.

We laid him in the dirt last night, just before dark, and the plot still needs to be dressed up. I don't really have time for your bullshit this morning.

why don't you break that cd into little pieces and shove that too.



[-] -2 points by robodan (-45) 1 year ago

Real tough when you are hiding behind a monitor in mama's basement

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago
[-] -1 points by marvelpym (-184) 1 year ago

I mean, just look. He went from the budget ceiling debate, to Glass Steagle, to Diana being murdered, to burying his second dog in two weeks.

I need the laughs after reading Underdog's thread. Not that I'm worried about the end of the world because of him, it's just depressing how pathetic he is.

[-] -1 points by marvelpym (-184) 1 year ago

Dude, this stuff is mint. Don't discourage him.

[-] -1 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

I'm afraid facts, clues and reason are a scarce commodity here. Check the zealous Shadz agreement. More and more I am disappointed by this forum.


[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Seen it before - more of the same both parties are equal

it's a convenient argument - one that does not require much thinking let alone any research or comparative analysis.

But who has time for any of that anyway . . .

It is disappointing - but not at all unexpected I think.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

of course the parties are the same
they both include men
they both get money contributions
they both do what their constituents want
they both use electronic communication
they both include women
they both support our troops
of course the parties are the same
....................................................................thats what david & charlie & sheldon told me to tell you

[-] 3 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Apples and Oranges are different. But once they begin to decay, the same slime forms in each, gutting the once healthy interior, and filling it with every form of corruption. Looking at the interior, it's not possible to tell which fruit it was. They both are inedible and must be thrown out or they will spread their spores and cause even the healthy to rot.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

and king snakes look like coral snakes

[-] 0 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Actually that's true. I saw one with the red, yellow, and black bands just like a coral snake in Socal.

But getting back to the subject, corruption within any party looks the same, smells the same, and spreads the same. It's not so much the party I detest, it's the slimy character of it's core.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

An old RepubliCon voter suppression strategy. The petulant newbies that pouted in 2010 don't know it yet. So many on this board should drop politics and go back to the drum circle, they just can't/don't/won't get it! Some, I guess, are the gen who expects a trophy for just showing up.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

hopefully they won't have to learn that lesson the hard way.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

There appears to be a cause and effect learning disorder. Very annoying. We don't want to endure another 2010, so we need to go around this demographic, too unreliable.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13713) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Oh, I dunno. I think we can rely on many of them . . . not to vote . . . which certainly is too bad, but it is their right.

As long as they are agitating in the streets, they may still be very useful. From that perspective I seem them as indispensable.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (17620) 1 year ago

Thanx for yet another excellent post 'PK', further to which I quote and append the following :

"Our political leaders, Democrat and Republican, are complicit in our demise. Our political system, like that in the declining days of ancient Rome, is one of legalized bribery. Politicians, including Mitt Romney and Barack Obama, serve the demented ends of corporations that will, until the final flicker of life, attempt to profit from our death spiral. Civil disobedience, including the recent decision by Greenpeace activists to chain themselves to a Gazprom supply vessel and obstruct a Russian oil rig, is the only meaningful form of resistance. Voting is useless. But while I support these heroic acts of resistance I increasingly fear they may have little effect. This does not mean we should not resist. Resistance is a moral imperative. We cannot use the word “hope” if we do not fight back. But the corporations will employ deadly force to protect their drive to extract the last bit of profit from life. We can expect only mounting hostility from the corporate state. Its internal and external security apparatus, as the heedless exploitation and its fatal consequences become more apparent, will seek to silence and crush all dissidents. Corporations care nothing for democracy, the rule of law, human rights or the sanctity of life. They are determined to be the last predator standing. And then they too will be snuffed out. Unrestrained hubris always leads to self-immolation." - by Chris Hedges, from :

& "Never Mind Super PACs : How Big Business Is Buying the Election", by Lee Fang :

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] 2 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

So who should we Vote for, Santa Claus? Lots of criticism, not a lot of solutions. I just hate clueless objectors.

Hedges has religious peccadilloes, so although he has had many keen insights, he's is not politically reliable. Moyers is religious, but doesn't bring it into his politics ~ a topic not fully appreciated/understood on this board.

Our political problems are caused entirely by our lowest Voter turnout and highest Big$ turnout. So how do you figure Voting is "useless"? Do you mean it remedies a problem that you would like to perpetuate??

Try being proactive. Let's all Register and Vote!!

Drop the hopeless despair.

[-] 2 points by jph (2652) 1 year ago

So you are fine with the drone murders, the complete indifference to prosecuting ANY wall street criminal activities, the corporate-healthcare-by-force-of-law system adopted from the republican platform of a few years back, the expanding drug war, and so forth and so on? These are the Democratic parties doings.

What people are saying it that yes the democrats are a slight improvement, over the clearly more evil (and inept) republicans,. they make life easier for some Americans, however they support fracking, they pay out the corporate welfare and continue the corporate-military-fascist agenda of the 1% banksters around the world, they are not the solution, only a distraction and an attempt to convince you, you have a choice and are participating in the rigged game system. When you are given an utter dismal choice between two people to be the PR face of the 1% agenda, you are not changing much, real change will not come from this system. You must see this?

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (17620) 1 year ago

IF you think that voting will result in any 'Top Down' changes and improvements ... then people should vote with their conscience ... unless they are right wing, in which case 'conscience' won't come into it !!! Maybe Compulsory Voting is conscionable IF a 'none of the above' option exists' !! Just Thinking loudly !

Consider : True Locally Based Independents & Third Parties to represent 'Labour' and not just 'Capital' are urgently needed as 'DemoCraps & RepubliCons' = 2 Sides of a uniquely crooked coin in The U$A.

ad iudicium ...

[-] 1 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Instant Runoff Elections bring in third parties, but Cons will die first.

Don't spew that both-parties-same crap, that's an old RepubliCon suppression strategy!

Lowest Voter turnout, highest Big$ turnout is THE problem!

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (17620) 1 year ago

Make NO mistake - I regard Democrat Voters and Repugnant voters as very, very different indeed !!!

Consider that both parties are Completely Controlled by occasionally Competing Corporate / Banking Interests is axiomatic - on these threads on this forum & that is the very raison d'etre of OWS !!

This is NOT really up for rational debate here - or is it ?!

ad iudicium ...

[-] 1 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Not mistaken.

Not hearing solutions either, just complaints, hopelessness and despair. Loss Leader!

"Not up for debate"? What's a forum without debate?

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Well said!

[-] 1 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Heard it somewhere

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Mandatory voting for all eligible citizens (like Australia) It is what the 1% fear the most!

[-] 2 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Not the most, they fear an awakened populace the most. What we were hoping OWS would do before it drum circle jerked.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

LoL. Yes I agree an awoken populace. I guess I'm saying the awakening will be hastened with mandatory voting.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Cons will die to obstruct IREs, they will kill and die to obstruct MV!

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago


[-] 2 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

And apparently they will pay to have "objectors" just trash any hope of democracy that smacks of being effective.

[-] 2 points by jph (2652) 1 year ago

Wow, nicely put "the more effective evil"! Yup, the 1% have their true champion in the Corporate Democrats and "a thoroughly pacified civil society",. .

I keep hearing "god" and religion references, intermingled with all this "support for our troops" war mongering,. so the truth really is “When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and waving a cross”, . arrived it has,. interesting times indeed.

[-] 1 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 1 year ago


[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1318) from Fredericksburg, TX 1 year ago

I see the right of it. Obama's the corrupt corporate shill and you're his "Bain." Oh did I spell bane wrong? How poisonous.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

This is why he is a lock in November. If McCain did what he has done, the nation would be on fire. It's not.

Obama is the more effective bullshitter.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago


[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

the federal reserve has been funneling trillions to banks and corporations long before Obama was in office.... but yes it's still happening. Our monetary policy is set up to fund the highest of the 1%

[-] -1 points by yobstreet (-575) 1 year ago

Very well written, ehh? I tell ya, you can't trust anybody these days, I mean who would have guessed that Obama's anti-white agenda is actually an anti-black agenda?

What we need in this country is term limits - a 5 year presidency and a 6 year congressman, and then, good bye.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

We do, "elections."

[-] -2 points by Lucky1 (-125) from Wray, CO 1 year ago

I don't know about any "black agenda"(unless you are talking about black nationalism) but I think you make some good points.