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Forum Post: What is the Purpose of the Occupy Protest?

Posted 2 years ago on Dec. 22, 2011, 4:33 p.m. EST by ahatkills (54)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Hello, I am an American who is a Libertarian (believes everything should be run according to the US Constitution at an extreme) and I often find myself being conservative these days due to the high number of Democrats opposing the US Constitution. I have been to a number of Tea Party Protests. I dislike Obama, Liberals, and other Americans who dislike classic American values. I am not the '1%' but I believe in Capitalism because it is a system that rewards creativity and hard work. From the videos of the Occupy protest shown on the news and Youtube, I am getting mixed feelings about the Protests. On one hand I appreciate the protesters and members of Anonymous defending their 1st Amendment but I am disturbed by the amount of people who value Marxist ideals. There are also many people who believe the Government should increase taxes - but that would make the government more powerful.

So my question is, what is the true purpose of Occupy? I don't want this to turn into a debate - even though I would not mind explaining the irony and flaws behind some of the protester's political views.

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175 Comments


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[-] 9 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage. They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses. They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation. They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization. They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices. They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions. They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right. They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay. They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility. They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance. They have sold our privacy as a commodity. They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit. They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce. They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them. They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil. They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit. They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit. They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media. They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt. They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas. They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.* To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard!

*These grievances are not all-inclusive.

[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (23961) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I don't think it can be said any better or more clearly than that.

People copy and spread it on the wind.

That is a viral worthy statement if you have ever heard one.

Share circulate, educate, inspire. This is exactly why we are here!

[-] 1 points by IslandActivist (191) from Keaau, HI 2 years ago

To prevent confusion, this is the only thing that has been agreed on. Meaning, that OWS acknowledges that the nation is being screwed over but has no intention on doing anything. Anything other than this regarding OWS is " a user-submitted post on our forum. The user who submitted this post only speaks for her/himself and their supporters, NOT the movement as a whole." Most of the protestors on this forum are dictators, do not listen to them.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/first-official-release-from-occupy-wall-street/

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

I'm not confused.

The declaration was found here: http://www.nycga.net/

[-] 1 points by IslandActivist (191) from Keaau, HI 2 years ago

By reading this post, many will get confused. Mainly because you include your own views below. There hasn't been anything official other than that document which was submitted by a few protestors around September when this all started. Amazing how many users have no idea what's going on.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

I doubt it. The majority of users here have been here for awhile. Most of them have alternative ID's and are here trolling. The conversation below is between those of us that have been on the forum for a bit. Obviously there isn't any other thing here that is official.

[-] 1 points by IslandActivist (191) from Keaau, HI 2 years ago

I beg to differ. The question was what is the purpose of this movement? I have seen this question multiple times. Many people come here looking for answers only to be labeled trolls or are misguided. Most of the users here have no idea what is going on. The fact is simple: nothing is going on. This movement does not have a purpose yet. The key part is how. And I suspect that many people coming to this website are turned off by this forum. See the thing is, a forum is made of guests and users.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Stop right there! We are done.

[-] 1 points by IslandActivist (191) from Keaau, HI 2 years ago

Aren't you quite the dictator? You should know that if you don't want a response, then don't impose a question only to attempt to censor it. I simply want to help the forum users. But fair enough, let this be an example of why this isn't working.

See your post if the first thing people see and so is your attitude. Perhaps you should be more positive. It wouldn't be a concern if your post was further down where no one can see. But a chain of events make it the first thing anyone sees. I am just glad that you do not run OWS.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

If this was your attempt to "simply want to help the forum users" then you would not have posted to me directly. You chose to do that. So, yes, let this be a lesson of why it is not working.

[-] 1 points by IslandActivist (191) from Keaau, HI 2 years ago

And to prevent confusion, the movement is the object in question that is not working. Not in the least on the forum. Have a wonderful day.

[-] 0 points by mikePac (52) 2 years ago

You mention at the beginning of your paragraph "As one people, united," What exactly does that mean in terms of united? Are you speaking of just the OWS members or "We the people"? All of us citizens. I am not a member of OWS or the Tea Party. As you know that "we as one people, united" will NEVER make a change for the better unless we are all "united" and work together to achieve that goal.

[-] 0 points by mikePac (52) 2 years ago

Thank you very much for the link and I will read it. I did read partially the first page and yes I agree with what I read so far 100%. By the way my name is not Mike, it is Dan. I am from Michigan and yes it is snowing here. :-)

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

You are welcome, Dan.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6464) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Clear and consise.

[-] 0 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

My only question, if education is a human right, who or what owes it to all and is responsible for supplying it? Parents, neighborhoods, churches, communities, cities, states, federal government?

[-] 1 points by Budcm (208) 2 years ago

The opportunity to "seek" an education is a right. Having one is not something endowed by your creator. The last I heard libraries were open all over the country. Did I miss something?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

This is a social contract.

We cannot allow education to only be obtainable by the elite.

[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

That's not the point of getting rid of the Department of Education and the Teachers Union. Those programs are corrupt - they put teachers above the students. They allow illegal immigrants who don't pay taxes for education to get free education (their children may be legal if they were born here but the legal children don't pay taxes until they are 18). The Teachers Union finds ways to solidify a Teacher's position so they may not get fired/let off (even if they are bad).

Getting rid of the DoE and Teachers Union will NOT get rid of education - it's a reform. The reform will award the good teachers over the bad ones.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Oh, really, and what planet did you come from?

There is a procedure for firing teachers. Doesn't really matter if you don' like it because you got a big ass F on a paper, now does it?

You are all the same. The fucking same.

[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

I get A's and B's and I'm taking Honors and AP classes...

Actually, the AP classes I take are a harder version of it because I go to San Diego High School of International Studies, which is an International Baccalaureate program school. They have their own AP classes called "IB ___" It also makes you take 8 classes per semester.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Sure you do.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23961) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Need a break? Recharge a little? The idiots can wait a minute or two. They are not likely to be going anywhere.

http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php?r=18895259&msgid=186775&act=M6R3&c=836093&destination=http://tedxtalks.ted.com/video/TEDxSF-Louie-Schwartzberg-Grati

[-] 1 points by Budcm (208) 2 years ago

Education is free for all. Just go to a library for what you need. You might not get a sheepskin, but you CAN learn what you wish.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Unless you stop funding the libraries, eh?

[-] 1 points by Budcm (208) 2 years ago

I guess I missed that part of the "CONSPIRACY" . What page did you say that was on?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

It isn't a conspiracy. There hasn't been any money to fund the libraries.. In most areas that has been cut. Still others-they have been closed.

[-] 1 points by Budcm (208) 2 years ago

As I said, I must have missed it. I have yet to find even a small town that doesn't have a library. I live in a town of 2500. We have a good one. I know towns smaller than that who have libraries. But that's not a point at all. On line libraries surpass all imagination. If you don't have an education in this day and age, someone should tell you how to get the information you wish. Unless, of course, you want "be" educated without the bother of taking the time to "get" it.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

Well, I'll give Girl that, just tonight on the news I saw that for the first time in a certain southern state's history, some counties are saying libraries will be closed within a month due to lack of funds to keep the lights on.....I can think of several things I'd rather cut funding too.... like our militant local police forces and let them actually earn their keep with their constant wealth extraction via hassling people over victimless crimes.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

http://americanlibrariesmagazine.org/ask-ala-librarian/how-many-closings

Purchasing new books is also a problem. Not having a computer or not being able to afford the internet or not being able to afford transportation to get to a library might pose a problem. And any teacher worth their salt will tell you not to rely on the internet for information.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

Well, tell me the problems with providing the book information via the net, so there would no longer be a reason for all not to have what they need. I'm sensing that you feel much needs to be censored instead of looking at it and discussing different perspectives. Do schools in America exist that do not have some sort of data connection as well as at least one computer and printer?

[-] 1 points by Budcm (208) 2 years ago

Any teacher worth their salt will tell you not to trust ANY information without first verifying it. My point is this: All you need to know about just about anything is out there if you search for it. First you must have the interest to search for what you need. Using the excuse that the information is not there is not a valid option.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

I agree with you. Intrinsic motivation. I also agree with Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

I have also seen some rather small libraries. Small before the cuts.

I graduated. However, I have been quite adept at locating syllabi for all the courses that I didn't get to take or anything that I want to learn that were outside of my field or I could have taken for free (no credit) but did not have the time. I don't even need the whole thing just the list of books, which then gives other lists of books. MIT's Open Course Ware is good. There are others out there.

[-] 1 points by Budcm (208) 2 years ago

The economy being what it is, there are cuts all over. My relatively small retirement income, (Somewhat less than the poverty level), has not been cut, though I can buy much less than I used to. I'm not that financially uncomfortable in my retirement. Actually I'm enjoying it tremendously! I find it extremely difficult to understand, what with the availability of information out there, why anyone would complain that they are shortchanged as far as education is concerned. I suppose it's an age thing.

Oh, well! It's been fun! Thanks for listening!

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Yes!!! Yes!!! Yes!!! Great article.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

Do you believe that only the elite are capable to teaching?

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

No, but the vast majority of our prof's are not elite. I'm not going to a church to study history. Not wise. If you are looking for a reason to strip higher education. I am the wrong girl.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

Where do you think is the best place to start? I really have a hard time interpreting what you are writing as it leaves me guessing quite a bit.

I can tell you this, I graduated a public high school with more education than many who had 4 year degrees. My mother did as well. How do I know? I tutored many of them in advanced mathematics, as well as other subjects, and my mother spoke three languages, other than English, before she turned 17.

So, I suppose what I am asking, are you opposed to completely overhauling our public K-12 system? There are several capable of earning a bachelors, or higher, by the time they reach the age majority, yet, what our schools turn out these days are truly shocking, for the most part. I won't say all.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

So, I'm guessing that you believe the reports on standardized testing then?

I am not opposed to it, but you aren't going to like what I tell you.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

Actually, I'm asking you where you think the best place to start would be. I have no idea if you are pleased with K-12 and are merely wanting all to be assured access to Ivy League education afterwards.

I'm actually trying to understand where exactly your ideals originate as I find them interesting and despite any prejudice you may have initially formed, all of our notions aren't polar opposite, at least not straight across the board.

FWIW....I graduated years ago, and from a public high school that was strictly academic and did not seem too concerned with the comparatively few mandates and syllabus dictation as came to be starting in the early 90's. Nary a computer one anywhere on campus and Windows hadn't even been invented. It was "old school" school.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

I'm not happy with K-12 currently. The kids are fine, the teachers are fine and the worst thing that ever happened was NCLB and the individual states response to it. Testing is one thing but the illusion that the kids are being compared with kids nationwide is a joke. International comparisons are not even close to being adequate.

We have moved to almost full on inclusion which should not happen. We have the teachers that are qualified to teach children with disabilities. They just need to be hired. Not aids, no mothers.......teachers. They should not be included in your testing at all.

Erm.........do you want me to finish?

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

Oh, as an aside, I am an active supporter of FIRST and feel similar programs, covering various ranges of aptitudes and gifted-ness, should be fully merged with each state's education programs.

There is no reason why those students who want to and can, obtain college level educations, within the K-12 timeline, should be prohibited from doing so, and it would also be nice for part of the curriculum to teach real world applications from how to function in society to fixing a leaky faucet, and everything in between, even if it means far more parent involvement in the process.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

Of course........ that is why I asked. I also think that OCB was merely the first rung in the "dumbing down" and brainwashing agenda furthered by NCLB.

So far, I am in complete agreement with your assertions. How could I, or any reasonable person not be? They make perfect sense.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Well, thank you.

I think you will find that the kids are not dumbed down-yet. They are learning material at a far earlier age then they did 50 years ago. The reason that the scores look dismal are because the scores of those with disabilities, as well as those, with ESL are included. People are being set up and the intention is to fail all schools.

That said, because this push is having a devastating effect on some of our young men. We went from a society that encouraged little boys to engage in hands on learning, etc. to "sit still and memorize"

So, this is where your increase in kids being labeled ADHD come from. You have parents that are desperate for their kids to learn and sit still and they go to a pediatrician and are prescribed medication. I want to say that I read the following in a book written by a Dr. Sacks but I'm doing this from memory: The MRI scans of children that are on that medication are the same as those individuals that have been using crack. But, I digress.

Teachers have phenomenal lesson plans that have to be scrapped due to testing. Some of these the kids walk away from and remember the information for life--but they cannot do this.

There are programs that allow kids to start taking college courses and this I like. I am a huge fan of Gardner's multiple intelligence theory and I know that there are a few schools that have implemented it with great results. http://www.infed.org/thinkers/gardner.htm

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

I fully comprehend the mixing in of 80 and lower IQ'd students test scores. I realize a child in an actual vegetative state can graduate high school with a diploma and NCLB is truly the wrong way to go about education excellence.

"Teachers have phenomenal lesson plans that have to be scrapped due to testing. Some of these the kids walk away from and remember the information for life--but they cannot do this. " You carried me too fast on this one..........can you perfect it a bit?

I graduated before "magnet schools" were brought into the mainstream, I'm almost surprised there haven't been lawsuits to shut them down although it makes sense to me to pick up gifted and prodigy children ASAP and really pour the soup of nurturing to them.

I mentor some "problem children" who allegedly are ADHD, ADD or other types of disciplinary children, it's amazing how well most respond to being encouraged to harness their energies with productive and creative activities whereas their challenges naturally forces them to learn how to do things and about themselves. We certainly agree about the head shrinkers seemingly demanding zombie like compliance in the education systems.

I'll check into the gardener link and shout back later.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Example of phenomenal lesson plan: simulating Constitutional debates. Like this one, but these kids didn't just research it, they had to know it well enough to debate it. http://www.cyberlearning-world.com/lessons/ushistory/concon/lp.constitutional_convention.htm

For whatever reason, the powers that be in this state have decided that US History 1 is to be taught in the 9th Grade and US History II is to be taught in the 11th grade. By the time the kids get to US History II they have forgotten about half of the information. So, the educators teaching US History II started using the simulation debates. This is time consuming. But, once the kids have this down, they do not forget it. Unfortunately, now it is teaching to the test. There are a lot of great lesson plans that are scrapped. The kids are on edge, the teachers are on edge and now they have managed to pit the parents against the teachers and so the parents are on edge.

It is a big circle jerk.

The magnet schools came from the desegregation reform era. Ideally, you would have all of these students that would cross boundaries and work together because of the same shared interests.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

Because it was.... how much money was borrowed to finance the Revolutionary War? It was indeed an agreement for the states to join and agree to pay off the debt. Many were opposed to TCftUSoA and concerned the somewhat sketchy terms of Article 6 would enrich clever sharks/Hamiltonians. The war cost many many millions of gold backed dollars and not all financing came from within the colonies. Surely you know this.

I mean you don't think that war was fought for free and we came out of it ready to build the glorious 10 square mile shrine to democracy just like that, do ya?

Your post continue to terminate with no reply button available to me. I haven't checked on any other computers, I will when I'm not too lazy.

I was pretty sure that I had read that blacks were not regarded as of the human species. My native blood is traceable back to the Indian Wars of the early 1600's, right there in the vineyard.

No doubt about it, they weren't having any part of being enslaved.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

http://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdocs/articles.html

The Articles of Confederation were unworkable and this is why you have the Constitution.

Yeah, there are only so many posts that can be made and then it stops. I am not doing it on purpose.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

Have you ever pondered how those who signed the Declaration of Indenpendence could do so and truly believe it did not prohibit slavery?

I'm very well aware they strongly believed that women were to only have rights and opinions as their men issued them, but, slavery?

I've never gotten a grasp as to if they believed slaves were not "men" or of some non-human species.

Your thoughts?

Why do you think that the Constitution is not taught to be exactly what it is? A bankruptcy pact amongst the states even though Article 6 doesn't specifically use the word bankruptcy.

Heck, even digging up the exact numbers and terms is a very tenuous activity.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

They knew that it was jacked up. I have a copy of Madison's Notes of Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787 and slavery was discussed but it sure as hell didn't have anything to do with the slaves as actual human beings. Even when the opportunity arose, it was never seen through. Jefferson was most afraid of a race war and he was not alone. He was afraid of retribution.

There were free black households living in the colonies that had their own slaves but they were indentured servants just like the Irish were. Blacks and whites lived together, married, had children=the whole nine yards. Slavery was on the out in Europe.

Massachusetts started this crap because they couldn't enslave the Native Americans--who knew the land and could escape. The white people could blend in and so it was the African Americans that got nailed. http://history.hanover.edu/texts/masslib.html

There is no reason to suspect that they were regarded as equals and by the time of the DOI it would have been ingrained.

I have no idea why you think that it is a bankruptcy pact.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

It still amazes me who few adults know how, when and why DC was formed. I've asked many times why our capital changed from Philadelphia to DC in 1871 and the closest I've gotten to any possible knowing answer is to be replied back to as a "revisionist". Fair enough I suppose, but most have no idea why or when, much less how things changes as a result.

Do you think the Federal government leaves out inconvenient truths with what has been decided what should and should not be taught?

Do you think it is necessary for teachers to have a Masters degree to teach in federal K-12 schools for the last 25 years? Ever? Some states actually require a Masters or better and many who have them end up wondering why the hell they spent so much life force to be forced to toe the line of not teaching too much or accurately.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

The Federal Government decides little and the rest is decided by the states. The states develop their own standards. You can find them at online at your State Department of Education.

This is why many of us want to kick Texas to the curb. Depending on your State, the textbooks are decided by the local school boards. Some of those members should be beaten as well. They may pick something like an awesome math textbook that requires multiples but not purchase the multiples rendering the textbook useless.

For years and years there was this very big whitewashed version of history taught--or history taught by the conquerors. Even getting a small amount of multiculturalism included has been a fight. Even though, we have all of these great people of color that have either always lived here or came here and participated in every way in this country. Kids need to be able to identify with that history and given what we know, there is no reason for it not to be unless you are a racist.

I think many inconvenient truths are left out, when is the best time to break out exactly what drawn and quartered is? Do we ever discuss that Japan tried to surrender? Or, how do you discuss WWI without the flu pandemic? When do we discuss the eugenics movement that started in the United States? Experiments? Forced sterilization?

Teachers are expected to get their Masters, on their own dime, I might add. Do I think it should be required? No, not really. I think teachers should be allowed to determine their continuing education. If there are conferences or workshops or classes that they want to take in order to stay up to date then it should be supported and paid for. Teaching is most often done solo and these are the people that are in the best position to make decisions such as these. It is one thing to say, ok we have these continuing education requirements and another thing to make crazy demands. If you are going to require them to get acquire a Masters degree then you better be willing to pay for it.

[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

Most of our Prof's and Teachers are Lefties because the Left owns our education system.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Whose a good boy? Whose a good boy?

ahatkills is a very good boy. Does ahatkills want a treat?

Jump boy, jump!

That's a good boy!!

[-] 0 points by Marquee (192) 2 years ago

I shared this withothers, GirlFriday. Thank you!! Very well said.

[-] 0 points by Frizolio (80) 2 years ago

You have some very good points but the alternative is 16 hour days, 7 days a week and we get a sack of potatoes and a bottle of Vodka. No thanks. The system is a good one, its the politicians that have sold out this country and its people to please the Corporations and we have corporatism because of it and that should not be confused with Capitalism. Of course the politicians get rich in the process and drunk with power.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

that is not the alternative, that is the future if we continue to allow this behavior from the 1%. there are laws in place and laws that need to be written to control the overly greedy. they are contributing nothing anymore, they are not 'job creators' anymore , they are job eliminators, and poverty enhancers at this point in time, and if not gotten under control will destroy this entire planet just to make an extra dollar.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

That would be the declaration. I didn't write it. There is, in fact, a difference between corporaticism and capitalism. I know what that difference is. No, the alternative is not a remake of the USSR. You know this. Don't dumb shit down.

I will repeat what I wrote for you: No, actually, they don't provide jobs and there is no need for innovation. They drive the smaller and medium businesses out through dirty tactics. It isn't a one or the other gig.

[-] 0 points by Frizolio (80) 2 years ago

You don't know the difference and really don't make much sense. I think you have taken one bong hit too many. Im not saying thats a bad thing but maybe go listen to some music or something until your head clears.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Hello there, you little paid for right wing libertarian piece of shit. Glad you could make it to the party. We have been expecting your dumb ass.

[-] 0 points by Muppetmaster (62) 2 years ago

I have seen a lot of posts from OWS claiming that those who post in disagreement to this movement are paid. Can you prove it?

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Don't need to. Just need to know the game. We did this very same topic last month. It isn't a simple question of disagreement. You know it. I know it and everybody here knows it.

[-] 0 points by Frizolio (80) 2 years ago

Yup just a childish high school kid. You have left no room for doubt now. Im not a right-winger btw.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Oh, but you are. :D

Who pays you, baby? Advantage Consultants?

[-] 1 points by Budcm (208) 2 years ago

I am a retired teacher. Ignorance is easy to alleviate. Just go with the facts. One cannot fix stupid, however.

[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

I'm curious to see what you think of getting rid of the Department of Education and the Teachers Union. Out of all the teachers I've asked, the ones who support the left have said that we must keep it, on the other hand the teachers that I've asked that are independent have stated that they are corrupt, bureaucratic, and support left-wing biased teaching (which I experience on a daily basis). I have yet to meet a right-wing teacher.

[-] 2 points by Budcm (208) 2 years ago

Some time ago I joined the Tea Party. They didn't like much what I had to say and threatened to boot me out. I quit.I guess they thought I was left wing. I am NOT left wing. Also, I do not consider myself right wing. Just because I may disagree with the beliefs of one side or the other does not make me the enemy of both.

I am closing in on the ripe old age of 80. I have a masters degree in Mathematics. I have owned and operated three relatively successful corporations. I have owned and operated several that were NOT successful. Being the age that I am, I really don't care which one you may believe I am.

Owning a company does not bring with it an endowment of success. Company owners are the biggest gamblers in the world. Each and every day they put all they have and all they wish to become on the line. It's make or break every day. Your product is continually tested. At times it is found wanting. There is the seeds of failure. And the company knows it.

Education, on the other hand, is failing.That is not an opinion, it is a fact. There are those who continually believe it is a success. Most of those are teachers. Who, in their right mind, wants to believe their chosen field is a failure? If something fails, you must stop doing it the way you have.

Teachers unions support a non-testing agenda. Where once students were tested often, there are few who now support that idea. Now it's a lot like putting an untested drug on the market. Please! I know all of the objections to testing regularly. In 26 years of teaching I never found a smart person who could not test well. (There were a few dumb teachers who could not teach it, however!)

I don't know what you consider a "Right Wing" teacher. If you consider any teacher not "left wing" as "right wing", then I guess I'm it. All serious studies show that testing regularly in education will increase output by at least 25%. (These were California findings, by the way!)

Do I think the Department of Education should be done away with? If education is failing then they certainly are not doing their jobs well, now are they?. Quit and try something else.

Right wing teachers? Most of those good ones I have met fall into my way of thinking. The rest fall into another way of thinking. Who was it that said "Those that can, do. Those who cannot, teach?"

What I have done with my own life is extensive. I was 12 years military, 50 years as a ships master, along with being the CEO of those three successful companies. (I try to forget the failures!) A heart attack caused me to quit all and retire. Since then I have written and published 55 books. Perhaps that, too, makes me right wing. My employees, to a man and woman, may disagree with you in that.

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

Thanks

[-] 0 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

This is a good point. But what is the alternative? Whether we like it or not, Big Corporations do provide jobs. If we were to get rid of these corporations, soon other small companies would soon rise above the competition and replace them - because that's the nature of Capitalism. It seems all to much that the people who oppose corporations look to the Government to do everything for them, its almost as if US Citizens don't know how to do anything for themselves.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

No, actually, they don't provide jobs and there is no need for innovation. They drive the smaller and medium businesses out through dirty tactics. It isn't a one or the other gig.

[-] 0 points by afterforever (-6) 2 years ago

"No, actually, they don't provide jobs and there is no need for innovation."

This statement is a perfect example of the complete psychosis of Leftist drones.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

No, once they reach a level of controlling the market, they are not into innovation. But, by all means share more of your right wing Faux News bull shit.

[-] 0 points by afterforever (-6) 2 years ago

You're ignorant and uninformed and just plain wrong.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

And your a fucktwit.

I feel better, don't you?

We should share more often.

[-] 0 points by afterforever (-6) 2 years ago

Thank you for confirming my assertion.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Whose a good boy? Whose a good boy? Our wittle afterforever is a good boy! Does our good boy want a treat? Jump boy. Jump!! Goood boy!!!

[-] 0 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

Employment. "They drive the smaller and medium businesses out through dirty tactics" Maybe so but it also depends on how you look at it. Many businesses are able to sell products because Big Corporations show a need for a product.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

No, they can go. You have an illusion of choice down the aisle. 70% of the items are owned by maybe 2 companies. They can go.

[-] 0 points by Frizolio (80) 2 years ago

Most if not all small businesses like ours depend on the big corporations for business. I don't like dealing with them at all but its the way it is. It would be like the domino effect and I realize people that are unemployed or underemployed don't care about the rest of us because misery loves company:-)

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

No, most smaller and medium firms do not. Unless of course you are getting paid from them to post right wing bull shit. :D

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[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

You right wing fascist fuck. Get off your knees.

[-] 1 points by Frizolio (80) 2 years ago

I am a righty whitey fascist and damn proud of it. However it appears that you are on your knees and Im peeing on you. Thats why those of us in the 1% call you peeons. Im just helping you get back to reality.

[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

Both Left wing and Right wing extremism is bad. Com. and Fascism are both bad. They may have different political standpoints but they both have Overpowered Governments, Ruthlessness, and Totalitarianism. The perfect balance between the left and right is the US Constitution. The only reason why I defend the right more often these days than the left is because the right is the only side defending the Constitution.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Keep thinking that. :D

You are scared shitless.

I like that a lot.

[-] 0 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

I don't get paid by corporations, I haven't graduated High School yet. I'm just saying things the way I see it. Several of my family members are in small businesses and like Frizolio stated, they require Big Corporations often for business opportunities.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

No, no, that isn't the case at all. You aren't in high school either. That is a very clever game that I don't fucking buy. Tell your team leader to start over.

[-] 2 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

OMG, does every single person with any kind of dissenting view get branded as a government psy-ops agent? This is starting to get really funny.

[-] 2 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

You're funny. This is me. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001213580664 I've heard facebook is easy for hackers to hack into, and I know Occupy is supported by Anon. If someone hacks my profile, it'll just show them as the monsters they are.

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

FYI, this paranoid game where they have totally distracted themselves from the conversation at hand in order to accuse you of being a government psy-ops agent is par for the course for anybody with any kind of dissenting opinion. It's just funny that they turned on you so fast.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Your funny. We know all about little trolls that establish accounts with false Id's on Facebook. Facebook is not valid ID.

Hahahahahahaha.

[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

Well I don't know what to tell you. I don't know how to convince you that's me.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Don't bother.

[-] 0 points by Frizolio (80) 2 years ago

You would know because I bet you are still in Hi school. You have no solutions just rants and that goes for the entire Occupy protesters. I see yall are finally turning violent in the news today.

[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

I have solutions. Reaganomics. Go back to the US Constitution. No more populist BS.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Hi again, I see you!!!! Your worthless piece of rotten right wing libertarian shit.

You are transparent as hell!!!! Get your finger out of your nose and pull your pants up-crack kills.

[-] -1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

I still want to know what Occupy Protesters think the solution is.

[-] 2 points by mikeraglass (5) 2 years ago

Well, what I'd like to see happen would be more support of local businesses, and the buying of locally grown crops as opposed to crops shipped in from states or countries away-this would keep the money in the community. I'd also like to see bribes/cash being taken by politicians from interest groups, in any guise, being outlawed; while this may seem to promote more government, when one takes government as the sum of both what we perceive as government and the influences on the holders of office, this law would promote smaller government. Lastly, I'd like to see a return to sustainable living practices, and for us as a culture and species to grow out of the greed-based cultural mindset which has led to a lot of problems in the current world; historical anthropology and a look at many tribal societies show that greed is not a necessity within the economic paradigm. To achieve these ends, I think the best solution would be to help the people gain awareness of the current state of society, and, working within the system, to vote in a way which supports these goals. By the way, the majority of us protesters in my experience tend to be pretty non-partisian, don't let the right-wing haters or left-wing phobics get you down.

[-] 2 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

See how that simple question got voted down by two different people? It's an unpopular question. That should tell you something. Rather than discuss it with you, they want to accuse you of being a government psy-ops agent. That should also tell you something.

I've been here since early October asking the same questions. I don't speak for Occupy, but my explanation is that Occupy is not about solutions, it's about expressing discontent. Venting angst. If you try to get people to focus on objectives or strategy, or accomplishing anything, then they'll get paranoid and either call you names or call you an infiltrator or both.

Here is a post of mine about solutions, and I think that you can get a sense from the replies as to how most Occupiers feel about political objectives, at least.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/vote-or-else-this-will-all-be-a-pointless-exercise/

[-] 1 points by francisw (3) from Walnut Creek, CA 2 years ago

“The Good husbandman tell you so then he knows, but not to till then. But you do not find the good husbandman dig up this planted corn to see if he grow. That is for children who play at husbandry, and not for those who take it as of the work of their life. See you now, friend John? (Insert any one or organization or critic or whomever). I have sown my corn, and Nature has her work to do in making it sprout, if he sprout at all, there’s some promise, and I wait till the ear begins to swell.”

From Dr. John Seward’s diary as told to him by Professor Van Helsing. From Bram Stoker’s, “Dracula”

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23961) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Just what is it you are suggesting? ( ahatkills ? )

Are you suggesting that in stead of being law abiding people of good fellowship.

That we take the law into our own hands and ( what? ) execute the corrupt and greedy as a sign to all the other business owners that they should continue to be good employers.

I don't know but that you sound a bit terroristic to me.

[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

Haha. Far from it. These are just questions that I want to see answered so I understand more about the movement.

[-] 1 points by francisw (3) from Walnut Creek, CA 2 years ago

The nature of unfetter capitalism does not allow small companies to rise above the competion. Unfetter capitalist will absorb the new small company. It is essential to a corportaion to do so. The competion is between large corporations.

"in business, a conciense is more expensive than a wife" Thomas De Quincey

[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

Ahhh, and then there would be competition between the small businesses, and sooner or later, one small business starts earning more money.

[-] -1 points by MASTERdBATER2 (56) 2 years ago

dislike

[-] 2 points by IslandActivist (191) from Keaau, HI 2 years ago

I have actually been contemplating this for a while. At first, I thought that OWS was trying to improve the nation by either getting rid of capitalism, proposing something along the lines of a Second Bill of Rights, or just to inform people about the corruption that is happening. I was not informed by OWS and have been individually protesting for years (and have been monitoring the actual protests that are international for years). I thought that OWS was clear, but now I see that it is very mixed and jumbled. Even though all of us are supposed to support OWS and give our own ideals which would then reflect OWS, OWS doesn't actually stand for us. I have been told by many including mods that basically anything I say or what anyone under me said is "incorrect and only reflects the views of the individual". Thus we will never know the actual purpose of OWS and now I'm going to point out that OWS is a true democracy- and a reason as to why democracies do not work. For now, OWS doesn't stand for anything because even what is put on the signs of protestors hasn't been moderated by OWS through a vote of some sort. Does everything the US does agree with most of its citizens? Not the few educated on what actually the US is doing, but since we are here we agree by default. The actual movement of OWS is no different than the current state of the nation in which the people are not represented.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

@hatkills : "What is the Purpose of the Occupy Protest?" ; To Wind Up half-wits like you, of course !!

Dork !!!

[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

Good Job.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22089) 2 years ago

OWS is not a Marxist movement. It is a movement about fairness, not equality. In the preamble of our Constitution it states that the government is set up to promote the general welfare of it's people. The OWS movement believes that our government, right now, is being bought and controlled by corporations and the wealthy. Because of this, the government is not working to promote the general welfare of its citizens, hence the extreme inequality in income that has developed over the past few decades.

30 years ago the average CEO earned 40 times the wage of the average worker. Today, the average CEO earns 343 times the average worker's wage. 1 in 7 Americans are on food stamps and many of them are working Americans. 49 million have no health insurance and many of them are working Americans. 22% of children live in poverty. And, 1/2 of all Americans either live in poverty or just above the poverty line. OWS thinks this is the result of a government that has been working for the benefit of corporations and the wealthy.

Getting money out of politics is the number one issue of this movement. By getting money out of politics the government can return to its objective of promoting the general welfare of its citizens.

[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

Hey Beautiful World, did you get your name from "Beautiful World" by Rage Against the Machine?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kxokD3HS3o

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22089) 2 years ago

No, but I loved the song. Thanks for that. I chose the name because it is my over-arching wish for us all.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23961) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Another outstanding statement. Thank you beautifulworld.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22089) 2 years ago

You're welcome. And, thank you. I was just laughing to myself because on another post I'm arguing with someone about how this movement is not libertarian. Okay folks - OWS certainly can't be Marxist and libertarian at the same time. Because it is neither!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23961) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I guess it would be fair to say that it is "Timely", if nothing else.

[-] 2 points by Occupioneers (88) 2 years ago

I've also attended Tea Party rallies.

My answer would be that the true purpose of Occupy Wall Street is to get money out of politics, to stop its corrupting influence from diverting the democratic process and disregarding the will of the people, to recognize that the root causes behind our financial crisis are issues that concern both the right and the left, to stand up against those unfair business practices and economic policies imposed on us by some of the largest banks and multinational corporations who in their pursuit of profits at all cost have been extracting money and jobs from the US and creating increasing economic disparity that will undoubtedly over time result in the disappearance of the entire US middle class, and bring a definitive end to the American way of life.

Occupy Wall Street is not against Capitalism and how it rewards creativity and hard work. Occupy Wall Street is against unfettered Corporatism and Crony Capitalism, and how they specifically do not.

I was part of a group of neighbors who came up with a list of nonpartisan actions that people from the Tea Party as well as Occupy Wall Street could agree on. Don't hesitate voicing your own thoughts about it here:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/agreed-upon-finally-list-of-actions-for-the-neighb

.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23961) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Two truly outstanding statements in a row.

Thank you Occupioneers and again beautifulworld.

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[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23961) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Sorry I agree with some of what you said.

But the illegals are just a diversion they are not a problem.

[-] 2 points by LSN45 (535) 2 years ago

Here's my 2 cents:

There are a lot of improvements that need to be made. The list reforms Americans want to see is long and varied depending on who you talk to. That said, I believe there is one reform that would provide the American people the best chances of seeing other meaningful reforms actually happen - that is REAL, loop-hope free CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM! I have seen others on this site calling this the "fulcrum" or pivotal issue. Right now the current legalized bribery, pay-to-play system of campaign donations and paid lobbyists has disenfranchised the American voter. Until this is fixed, any other reform the politicians may try to placate us with (be it a change to healthcare, clamping down predatory school loans, new financial regulations, etc.) will be about as effective as a farmer putting a new roof on his CHICKEN COOP, but still letting the FOX guard it.

We need to go back to the original political currency. Instead of the current system of who can collect the most money from corporations and special interests it should be who has the BEST IDEAS to EFFECTIVELY RUN THE COUNTRY (we don't need "Wealth Redistribution," what we need is "Political Influence Redistribution")!

For the sake of our children and future generations of Americans, we need to take back our democracy from the rich and powerful who are using their vast sums of money to "speak" as if they represent millions of Americans. This "Corporate Personhood" that has crept into our laws is allowing them to manipulating our policies in their favor at the expense of the average American (the recent "Citizens United" Supreme Court ruling is a miscarriage of justice and must be reversed. The $50 or $100 a normal American may give to a political campaign becomes meaningless when corporations or other special interests are handing our millions to buy political access to the decision making process.

For decades now the corporations and special interests have had our "representatives" bought and paid for (both on the right and the left). Concentrating our efforts on getting the money out of our politics is the best way we can create an environment in which further reforms can be realized. Until we end the current system of legalized bribery (campaign donations) and paid lobbying our politicians will continue to be the LAP DOGS of the corporations and special interests. What we need first and foremost is real, loop-hole free CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM!!!! If the corruption is not dealt with first, the chance of any other meaningful reforms becoming a reality is almost zero - the special interests will just use their money to buy votes and put forward bills that create loop-holes or otherwise twist the law in their favor. If we want our children to live in a country where there vote matters, we need to get the money out of our politics, otherwise they will increasingly become the 21st century version of the "landless peasant." Spread the word - End the LEGALIZED BRIBERY!!! CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM needs to be THE main goal of the protests!!!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23961) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Excellent statement. Thank you LSN45

Wow Pretty much three in a row. Did you guys call each-other ?

Any way thanks again LSN45,Occupioneers and beautifulworld.

This is what happens when good people get together and share. Plenty of good food for thought as well as direction for action.

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[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

Good Point, but Trade Unions have just as much, if not more, influence in politics.

[-] 1 points by LSN45 (535) 2 years ago

You're correct - and I agree that they should not be able to give either. I consider them to be "special interests" as well.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23961) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

This is why we are here this is why you are needed.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/inside-job-documentary/

Share, circulate, educate, inspire.

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

This post is one example of how my form of creativity fits in.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-new-year-eve-and-day-2012/

Besides this movement does not have an official ideology!!!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23961) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

If Occupy and 99% movements were to do nothing else, then it would still be worth doing to sound a wake up call to all of the good people of this world. A wake up call that they are needed to demand change and needed to end the supporting of or even the toleration of Greed and Corruption.

[-] 1 points by DavidGilbert (64) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

A Sweeping Vision Of A More Just Society. More Democracy. More Jobs. More Fairness...

More Democracy - Real campaign finance reform with public financing of federal elections. A constitutional amendment reversing the Supreme Court's bizarre rulings that under the First Amendment money is speech and corporations are people. End the "revolving door" of politicians and their staffs from ever becoming becoming lobbyists. End the filibuster - the continued tyranny of 40, the number of senators who can block action—perhaps representing as little as 10 percent of the American public.

More Jobs - A ten-year federal program that creates over 30 million jobs rebuilding America that includes infrastructure banks run by engineers, not politicians and a massive clean energy initiative that links some of those new jobs to workers in fossil fuel industries who otherwise would be displaced. Pay for it by taxing all Wall St. financial transactions at 1% raises $400 billion a year, end the wars and reduce military spending.

More Fairness - The fast-growing occupations in America are lower-paying service jobs, like home health care and food service, in which it’s all but impossible to make a living. To lift wages requires generous tax credits for low earners, a higher minimum wage, and guaranteed health care so that wages are not consumed by medical costs. Job training efforts must also focus on the service sector, helping to build so-called career ladders, say, from home health aid to licensed vocational nurse.

Fewer Foreclosures - An anti foreclosure plan that is up to the scale of the problem would include principal write-downs of underwater loans, expanded refinancings for borrowers in high-rate loans, and forbearance for unemployed homeowners.

Less Financial Risk - Break up the biggest banks. Reenact Glass-Steagall. Abolish credit default swaps. Derivatives must be traded on transparent exchanges. Ban "flash" trading.

Progressive Taxation - A federal tax code where the marginal tax rate should be raised to 50 percent on income between $500,000 and $5 million, 60 percent on income between $5 million and $15 million, and 70 percent on income over $15 million. There should be a 2 percent annual surtax on all fortunes over $7 million. The estate tax should be 55 percent and kicks in after $5 million. Capital gains should be taxed at 35 percent. End the home mortgage deduction on first homes over $1 million. End the home mortgage deduction on all second homes. Corporations should be taxed by a variable amount based on the percentage of their payroll going to US workers. A small business employing 100% US workers should be taxed somewhere between 15-20% while a company that has completely shifted its production overseas should be in the 50% range. Eliminate corporate loopholes, unfair tax breaks, exemptions and deductions, subsidies, end offshore tax haven abuse. Expatriation of capital should be subject to a maximum tax-rate penalty with violation considered a felony act.

Better Schools - Copy Finland. Finland draws its teachers from the top 10 percent of college graduates, and teaching regularly beats out finance, law or medicine as a top career choice among high performers. It doesn't hurt that Finland's teachers study education at government expense and receive strong professional support throughout their careers. Properly compensate effective teachers. End tenure and LIFO for k-12 teachers nationwide and weed out the bottom 10%.

[-] 1 points by stuartchase (861) 2 years ago

I think you can get behind this. :)

http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-great-satan/

The Revolution starts here!

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

To show how apathetic the 99% is.

[-] 1 points by Marquee (192) 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

That's a great video. But I worry about the amount of activity the CPUSA has in the Occupy movement.

[-] 1 points by ithink (761) from York, PA 2 years ago

The way I see it, Occupy's purpose is to awaken the masses to their responsibilities. I have heard this said a hundred different ways. Freedom is a responsibility. If people do not act in the name of their freedom, they will lose it. It does not matter whether someone is liberal or a libertarian, democrat or Republican. Occupy could not possibly know what exactly each and every person "should" do or "should" believe. People who are still looking for someone to tell them what to do, what to buy and what to think are not accepting their responsibility and they are giving away their freedom.

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[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

End government corruption. 1% buys their representation. 99% are left with the scraps.

This is kind of a big melting pot of issues and ideologies though. Hopefully the government corruption issue is getting through all of the other noise. The government seems to be hearing that message though, even if some of the media isn't getting it. Strange and ironic as that is! There have been many pieces of legislation for campaign finance reform in the past few months.

[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

"1% buys their representation." True but Trade Unions also have as much political influence.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

I would include them also. I think that political campaigns should be publicly financed to some (mostly large) degree. Maybe 100%. I'm not sure of the right details, but I'm sure of the direction.

Political influence should not be based on money. It should be the same thing as going to court and arguing a case before a judge. You wouldn't pay the judge to sway his/her opinion. Yet somehow, that has become ingrained and acceptable in our political system.

Lobbyists, special interest groups, and unions are all smart and capable enough to argue their cases and their points of view to our politicians, without resorting to cash payments. That just distorts, diminishes and is disrespectful to the intent of our form of government.

[-] 1 points by fucorporatemedia (451) 2 years ago

Accountability.

Of Congress, the bankers, robosigners...

There was nothing wrong with the country, just some crooks and liars took over every aspect of government and are running into the ground like it is their own personal kingdom, ignoring the Constitution, ignoring all the laws that US citizens are expected to follow....

We had tariffs for a reason, since the American Revolution.

It was said at the time that anyone who attempted to avoid tariffs are considered pirates.

That is who we have running our country, helping smugglers avoid paying their taxes through 'free trade' agreements.

That is where our jobs went, which had quite a bit to do with everyone losing their jobs, unable to pay for their homes(then they started illegally foreclosing to purposely tank the housing market and steal all of our homes)...now the economy is tanking, people are on food stamps and welfare instead of paying taxes into the government. See the problem. Now the same government is pointing the finger blaming the victims of their evil treacherous greed. Then they gave the contract for food stamps to JP Morgan who outsourced the work to India.

Today Rep. Rohrabacher comes out and blames the Kardashians for the economy, because their clothing line is made in China. ????

We have self entitled people running every aspect of our government, screwing everything up, meanwhile pointing the finger at the victims and saying we need to further feel the pain to fix the economy(because they wasted so much money on wars and tax cuts that they stole Trillions from Social Security and they don't want to pay it back.)

Do you hear this on the corporate media?

Well that is our real problem right there, The corporate media has been spewing propaganda for far too long and many people have no idea just how badly they have been screwed over.

This is why the purpose of Occupy should be Accountability by Taking back the public airwaves.

WE cannot function without a free press. The elite know this, this is why they took over every station. But these are our public airwaves, and the FCC license only provides access to our public airwaves if these stations serve the public interest, which clearly they do not.

We need to go to the stations, demand they start telling the truth about the corruption and the law breaking going on right now.

Robosigners are still going strong...no one has stopped them, foreclosures are accelerating...so far the only reaction the elite have had is doubling down on the stupid and the greed, so it is time for Occupy to double down on the courage and new ideas.

[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

The media is certainly funded by the rich or trade unions. Bias is everywhere. The only media outlet I trust is BBC, surprisingly.

[-] 1 points by tbuontempo (194) from Jersey City, NJ 2 years ago

As a participant in the Movement, I feel empowered to see so many people of different political backgrounds at the protests.

The Marxists are part of our society, and they are more than welcome, in my opinion, to participate in the Movement.

If you make a choice not to participate because there are Marxist in this Movement, so be it. I have never heard a Marxist argue they would not participate in the Movement because there are Ron Paul supporters present.

[-] 0 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

Yes Ron Paul is the bomb.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Oh, he is a bomb all right.

[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

Why? For believing in the US Constitution?

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

For wanting to destroy the constitution and being an overall racist, quasi libertarian, religious zealot. :D

[-] 2 points by Frizolio (80) 2 years ago

The biggest problem with your movement is idiots like you that haven't a clue. Ron is none of those things but a 1000 Occutards will read your statement and believe the BS. Ron Paul is about letting the states deal with their issues and the Federal gubment staying out. Get educated and stop watching MSNBC or FOX for that matter.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

You mean like they have in the past, amiright? You little fucktwits are all alike. The only reason that you want state rights is to take away the right of others. You don't really want me to stop paying taxes, eh? You just have no intention of being held accountable for the money you get. Same shit, different day.

[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

I think it would be nice not to get rid of taxes, but to decrease them and stop funding Government programs that are Bureaucratic. Like I said, I don't want this to become an angry debate.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Which programs would that be? :D

[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

The Department of Education. It would be replaces with something less expensive and more effective... something that rewards good teachers over bad teachers. Something that would not let illegals get free education. No more Teachers Union! Yay!

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Gee, that's what I thought. Hey, while we are at it, why don't you share what else you would cut?

you know, for shits and giggles.

[-] 0 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

Watch Ron Paul's ad. All of those programs mentioned are extremely bureaucratic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXCZVmQ74OA

[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

Show me proof.

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

I'm sorry that all of these people have been so rude to you. Reading this was just sad. This is all pretty much the same thng that happened to me when I showed up here as a potential supporter.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

You can read through the shit on the board. We have been waiting for you. Welcome to the party little right wing troll.

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

Wow so you took a potential supporter and totally alienated him by the end of the page after his very first post. Great work. You're fighting harder for anti-OWS interest than any psy-ops agent ever could.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Dream on, sweet pea. I love it when you guys get all ZOMG.

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

Do you think that you're helping anybody by alienating potential OWS supporters?

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

There is no intention.

[-] 0 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

It was the night before Wall Street, when all through the Zucotti Park, not a creature was stirring, except for the drunks in the dark. The tents were hung by the trees without care, with hopes that Starbucks bathrooms soon would be opened and be shared. The bums, anarchist, and students were nestled all snug in their bags, while visions of dead bankers danced in their crazed heads. And Mama in her Che t-shirt‘ , and I in my Mao cap, were drugged out of our brains, ready for a long winter’s nap.

When out on the lawn there arose such a clatter, I sprang from my tent to see what was the matter. Away to the tree I went to hide my stash, first tore open the package quick as a flash. The search lights where on and I dove into the snow, in hopes that the cops didn’t see my blow,

When what to my wondering eyes should appear, But a miniature Francis Fox Piven in tiny snow gear.

Looking a little old, and a bit like my pop I knew in a moment it was not the cops. She spoke not a word, but stuck out her thumb And told me that me and my friends where useless, and dumb. And flipping me the finger aside of her nose and giving a nod, screamed ‘up your ass you bozos’. She sprung to her car, to her team gave a whistle, And away they all flew, like the down of a thistle. But I heard her exclaim, ere she drove out of sight, 'I’ve seen what I need to make my mind up tonight.' ‘You’ve ruined my revolution I ‘m giving up on you geeks. So Happy Christmas to all, I’m joining a Wall St Firm next week

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6464) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Do you believe as the founders did when writing the Constitution that "income" was derived from devidends, interest and capital gains. That the government should be funded by profits of comerce and not from the wages of workers. That the power of the poeple to decide matters of money disputs should never be interfered with by the State, as we all know the State can be infulenced and it is a jury of peers that brings justice to the worker when facing off the factory owner.

[-] 0 points by mikePac (52) 2 years ago

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[-] 0 points by zati321 (169) 2 years ago

mr libertarian: --do you believe that children, the elderly, and disabled people should have their healthcare paid for by tax money, if no other solution for them exists? --do you believe the govt should continue to check our food and drugs for safety? ---do you believe the govt should monitor the dumping of toxic waste or just leave it up to the polluters to oversee themselves? --BUT, do you agree with your heroes in the tea party including ron paul that the govt should TAKE AWAY a woman's right to choose an abortion, the right of a terminally ill person in agony to end their life, the right to burn the flag and have a gay marriage?

if you answered "yes" to any of these, none of which are mentioned in the constitution, that makes you, by your own definition, a "marxist" commie. we need to bring joe mccarthy to blacklist pinkos like you who dont believe in palin's great triad of "faith, family, and freedom," you islamo fascist america-hating tree hugger.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23961) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Woaha-now . . take it easy. Zati321 is it? Couple of deep breaths now. Thats it nice and slow nice and deep. That's it just relax, everything is OK.

Hey does anyone know this guy? Is he on some sort of medication? Some-one call 911 I think we need to get this guy to a Doctor.

Easy now easy...help is on the way...just relax...that's right gooood a couple more slow deep breaths .............

[-] 0 points by zati321 (169) 2 years ago

cant answer? what a shock-- and i dont think hyphenating "someone" could be a typo. its not hyphenated, einstein. and yes, obviously im aware of caps etc. read much?

[-] 0 points by Zealwriter (5) 2 years ago

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[-] -1 points by mikePac (52) 2 years ago

The main purpose of OWS is for them to set or lay around in parks, smoke weed, drugs and think of a way to take money from the working man

[-] 0 points by mikePac (52) 2 years ago

I bet that smell was unbearable for the poor workers that cleaned that up. In the long run OWS is doing their part to disrupt the Country to go forward and are just costing taxpayers more money to mop up after them

[-] 1 points by ahatkills (54) 2 years ago

It's going to cost money. I don't agree with most of the OWS messages but hopefully the Ron Paul supporters get the message across peacefully and clean.