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Forum Post: WHAT IF ( just a thought) ??????

Posted 2 years ago on July 24, 2012, 10:28 a.m. EST by robertred85 (35)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I was thinking about the absolute inability of our Presidents to accomplish anything the American people are asking for. And it hit me... WHAT IF... they cant help.... not wont... but cant. WHAT IF... the office of the President of the United states was reduced to a figure head by the intelligence communities, the Military, and of course big business. WHAT IF..... newly elected presidents, filled with hopes and dreams for the people of this country. Where told in no uncertain terms that they would never be allowed to affect real change... that they were merely there to be a calming factor or scape goat for whatever the "machine" decided it wanted to do. WHAT IF.... that newly elected president was taken to a room and was told this story, and upon disbelief, or outrage, was shown the film footage of a man, who's decisions, and reactions, were based on what was best for the average American citizen. The film footage was of a younger man riding in a limo through a town in Texas.... waving his last goodbyes, smiling his last smiles, taking in those last looks of his wife and the American people who adored him. Then came 4 shots that forever changed this country....... So... Mr. President....The Machine asks..... whats it going to be?????? And I ask you.....WHAT IF?

41 Comments

41 Comments


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[-] 4 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

What if?

Then I would say that the president that refuses to speak out is a huge pussy.

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

My fading hope is/was that Obama would go before the UN and announce the whole fraud.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Obama is financed by the people that are part of the problem.

Why do you think he won the primary elections over the democrat running that actually tried to impeach Bush?

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

I didn't say it was a realistic hope. I agree with you.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

People want democracy and currently we have this corrupt federal republic standing in our way.

[-] 0 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Vaginae are not bad or ugly or even cowardly. I have to object to the terminology you use.

[-] 3 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

"What if" is what conspiracy theories are made from. Thin air.

[-] 1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Obama surely understands the lessons of JFK, RFK, MLK and Wellstone.

http://www.oilempire.us/coup.html

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13174) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

What you have proposed is not quite as far fetched as might at first appear, although a lot more complicated and perhaps not as limiting as you suggest.

There was, very recently as I recall, a series of incidents involving aircraft, the Vice President, and the Secretary of State, that did occur on a single day.

There was also a flyby of Air Force One over Manhattan, which did cast a long shadow of fear - and then resentment - over not just the whole of N.Y. but the whole of this nation.

These incidents, and others like them, are, I believe, the product of human engineers, individuals of skill and resource, who perhaps hold no political convictions whatsoever, beyond that of expedience . . .

  • Certainly, it can not be said, that they are patriots . . .
[-] -1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

"The presidency exists to disquise power, not exercise it," (I've forgotten the source). Pres. Clinton said that by the time 'you reach this office, the decisions are all made by others' (paraphrasing).

Obama's dog has more freedom of action than he does.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13174) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I don't believe that to be entirely true. I think it is in large measure a matter of perspective, and willingness to act.

One quick example: As candidate, Obama said he would pull out of Iraq in 16 months. This produced an almost immediate shift in U.S. international policy regarding Iraq, including the acceptance of a timeline for withdrawal by the Bush admin, which they had, with steadfast obstinence, refused, up to that point.

The XL pipeline is another instance.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13174) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

its me, the one and only. Just popped in a couple of days ago, and I'm sure that after review of my comments here and my posting here and there it will be apparent that I do, indeed, remain true to form . . .

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Whew!! What a relief. . . . I think.

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 2 years ago

Another example is gay rights. Just by standing up and taking a side, there was almost a 10% shift in national attitudes towards gays. Leadership, even as a simple figurehead, still matters.

That said, I don't think you climb to the top of the political world without becoming somewhat beholden to both the positive and negative forces that supply the money and resources to get you there. Probably, the Presidency is the ultimate example of having to make the best of working within the system in place (and finding various ways of manipulating it, or preventing yourself from becoming a complete puppet.) Either way, parties and money control pretty much all of our current crop of legislators and that's the real issue. It isn't about statesmanship anymore, it's about money and party politics. That's just how it all starts, of course. Look it up: Congressmen and Senators can be bought pretty darn cheap (but don't tell a rich person I said so... they count every penny, sometimes twice.)

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13174) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

That said, I don't think you climb to the top of the political world without becoming somewhat beholden to both the positive and negative forces that supply the money and resources to get you there.

And I think this principle in large measure accounts for the claims that Obama was too inexperienced back in 2008 - Too Inexperienced may be little more than code speak for:

  • insufficiently corrupted as of this date.
[-] 3 points by NLake72 (510) 2 years ago

Agreed. I am convinced that Obama's heart is essentially in the right place. He isn't free to ignore his party's political doctrine, but he also isn't out prostituting himself to corporate or wall street interests (their money is going to Romney this election-- they want the most profit for their "investment.") Leadership matters in times such as this, and what we don't need is another puppet ruler or an agent to represent a secret and silent plutocracy-- which is precisely what Romney's role would be. Obama might have both hands tied behind his back, but his integrity is still reasonably intact, and he's actually attempting to represent the 99%. Is Obama perfect? No. But, we are clearly at a crossroads in history, and Obama's by far the best chance this country has right now.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Well said.

Pres Obama would have more success if he had an active base protesting and waking up all the apathetic progressives who have given up.

If we go back to sleep the 1% plutocrats will tighten their grip on us.

[-] 1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Obama once said he wants his base to hold his feet to the fire. We didn't. The rest is history.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Instead we watched the repubs create the tea party. I think some learned from that. Just as FDR told the left from his time to "make me create the change you want" We must do the same.

[-] 1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 2 years ago

People struggle under the illusion that elections will do the trick. They elected Obama and thought their problems were solved. Thanks to heaven now we have #Occupy which is not feeding illusions of electoral revolution.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Obama has begun the long process of undoing the 1% plutocrat control and exploitation of the 99%.

We must recognize the slow progress (however much the repubs have watered it down) the dems have made in the face of the most intense resistence we've ever seen.

The 1% plutocrats and their republican puppets will not give up power easily. It will take years of effort, protest, struggle, setbacks. We have to keep the pressure on. Keep all pols feet to the fire.

It's the only way, until OWS creates the bottom up, horizontal, direct democracy system we need.

[-] 1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 2 years ago

The electoral system is rigged against the 99 percent. We can use it to slow things down a bit maybe, and to assess the public mood but it's OWS style activism that is going to save the day-- or not.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Activism is critical. no progress can happen without the people actively involved.

We must grow, attract more people, other like minded groups. inclusion, and focus on the issues that hurt the 99% most.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13174) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I agree.

[-] 1 points by robertred85 (35) 2 years ago

I agree also... but shouldn't we put that on paper, and focus our combined efforts on just that. blogging, protests, investigative journalism, lobbying, calling bullshit when we see it and hear it. Demanding clear concise answers to questions, instead of hemming and hawing, and beating around the bush. I say give out assignments and follow through... assign people to direct focus and change to each of our issues. Ride these elected officials until they break and due the job they are being paid to do. I think that makes a lot of sense... any comments?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13174) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

assign people to direct focus and change to each of our issues. Ride these elected officials until they break and due the job they are being paid to do. I think that makes a lot of sense... any comments?

This may be a part of the piece that is missing.

I think one has to recognize that as long as people like House Majority Leader John Boner continue to blatantly deny reality - that global warming is right out in the parking lot - one will have to expect that such initiatives will continue to be met by lackluster response in the House.

To get anything done, anything at all, the back of the repelican party must be broken

That can only take place at the ballot box.

[-] 2 points by robertred85 (35) 2 years ago

The guys last name is Boner.... that should say it all!

[-] 1 points by CSFSP (15) from Centennial, CO 2 years ago

I don't know what Obama's problem is but have thought he might not be the answer. We must get to businesses that have a stake in a strong middleclass like satellite, cable and telephone. So what if we bring it to their attention that if they ship jobs overseas or lowball their employees wages that they are only shooting themselves in the foot. Duh, don’t you get it? When the entire country, except for the 1% is impoverished you will eventually go out of business because you will have no customers left that can afford your products. I sincerely believe that we have to change the conversation with these businesses and set them straight.

Another area of opportunity is with the health insurance companies.
I don’t think Obama realized it when he put forth his vision of the Affordable Care Act but what has/is going to happen is that health insurance companies are now going to be natural predators of pharmaceutical companies. For decades pharmaceutical companies have poisoned with impunity. The health insurance companies have been incentivized to keep us healthy; it saves them money. Conversely if pharma poisons, the health insurance companies pay and pay for these harmful products because when poisoned by pharma it usually becomes a lifelong chronic disease and very costly for our government and the health insurance companies.
I truly believe we can amplify our power and influence by identifying businesses that are adversely impacted by corporate corruption. After identified it’s a matter of getting in touch with the right stakeholders at the company and informing them of their demise should banks, pharma and others continue their corrupt behavior.

Do you have any thoughts on this method of protest?

[-] 1 points by Misaki (893) 2 years ago

I was thinking about the absolute inability of our Presidents to accomplish anything the American people are asking for.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-nonviolent-solution-to-the-political-conflict-in/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-traitors-within-us/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-inflation-scam/

[-] 1 points by robertred85 (35) 2 years ago

There appears to be a lot of viewpoints on my post.... I agree that we need a president that is not afraid to hurt some feelings, as this will happen in order to get the job done. And I had high hopes for Obama, but was crushed when he signed the bailout bill. I think the work on individual rights is all well and good but putting people back to work and re-vamping our educational system, so our kids have a fighting chance, should be on the forefront of everyone's agenda. As well as re-enacting all of the banking legislation that was for our protection, but removed during the Clinton administration. Jobs.. Education.... Accountability....As far as congress and the senate are concerned...I say if the gop falls by 3% or more... anyone is office in ineligible for re-election. And get rid of this we get paid and benefits for life bs. What if we had a president with that agenda and only that agenda... put the rest on the back burner until we fix the basics. My fear is that even if that guy exists....could he/she make it happen???

[-] 1 points by Chisel (4) from Klamath Falls, OR 2 years ago

nonsense.

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 2 years ago

WHAT IF . . . the president is perfectly able to accomplish what he promised, but he never intended to?

WHAT IF the president was just another product marketed to manipulate your hopes and dreams in order to blind you to what he is doing?

WHAT IF you were so enthralled by the rhetoric, that you didn't notice his top donors were the largest investment banks? And didn't notice how he voted for the first bank bailout bill, without even trying to improve it?

WHAT IF the president never was who he pretended to be?

[-] 1 points by robertred85 (35) 2 years ago

I noticed, and it was a crushing disappointment.... they never have to say what they did with the money and they can never be prosecuted.... bs...bs...bs... THERE WAS NO WAY HE DIDNT READ A TWO PAGE DOCUMENT FROM START TO FINISH ON SOMETHING THAT IMPORTANT.... CAN YOU SAY GIANT RED FLAG!

[-] 1 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Another possibility. The point is we have to get out there and raise hell.

[-] 1 points by marvelpym (-184) 2 years ago

Sorry but I disagree. After those four shots, LBJ pushed his agenda through by hook or by crook. Bill Clinton used a book review to point that out to Obama (hint, hint). It's called the bully pulpit and the most powerful position in the world for a reason. You just need someone in office who knows how to get the job done.

[-] 1 points by robertred85 (35) 2 years ago

I think LBJ was a crook.... his agenda was the military machine and weapons manufacturers. The Vietnam war... plain and simple ... he accomplished what he did because thats what the machine wanted. Just my opinion ...

[-] 1 points by Phil1 (1) 2 years ago

I don't mean to be blunt; but the contrived conspiracies are no longer even required today, because man has become their own worst enemy; in other words, they dig their own graves.

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

if i was president, id send an email to every american explaining to them the situation and suggestions of what can be done about it, with the us military behind him really he is the only one who was called, 'the protector of our liberties" in the beginning.

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

I was always led to believe that the President was just a figure head anyway and that his powers were not all that extensive. Even Executive Orders are disobeyed and ignored by the "Elitists"..

President Eisenhower said it best...My Grandmother stated the fear that she felt when he left office....

"The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist." Eisenhower's farewell address on Jan. 17, 1961.

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/16/132935716/eisenhowers-warning-still-challenges-the-nation

[-] -1 points by Porkie (-255) 2 years ago

Well, I think actions speak louder than words... in many cases, the actions of our past and even current Pres have not been consistent with what many believed to be their ideology. And I find it too amazing that a Congressman that passes what, twenty bills a year, can hit the ground running the way they do; I think the agenda is fully prepared well in advance. In that sense, he is just a figurehead.