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Forum Post: What a Crock of Shit

Posted 6 months ago on Jan. 7, 2014, 4:41 p.m. EST by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Both Parties Are the Same

my ass

There is a very clear distinction between them. Conservatives have an ideology all their own, and it does not include you - except in so far as you may be put to use to further their own bottom line. And make no mistake, it is conservatives of one stripe or the other that control the repelican party machine.

You could - were you a both parties are the same proponent - examine for yourself the legacy of FDR, the statements made by conservatives regarding his legacy, and the efforts of the repelican machine to systematically dismantle that legacy. Were you not indifferent or too lazy that is.

You could also examine the social policies of LBJ, the conservative reaction to those policies, and again, the efforts of the repelican machine to systematically dismantle that legacy.

Were you not indifferent or too lazy.

Men like Boner demand spending cuts to offset any expansions to the safety net - a demand not heard during the eight long years of total and complete BUSHITE which saw us launch war on two fronts . . .

But never mind. Never mind the stark difference in social policy. Never mind. After all, Charlie Rose insists: you {President Obama} have simply continued the policies of Bush/Cheney and in the CBS commercial for their morning program he is seen to ask: how does that make you feel?

The lame stream media {Sarabou's term, not mine} panders to OWS dogma, and no one questions it.

Fuk you.

Fuk Boner.

and Fuck Charlie Rose.

He may not have created that commercial, and may have had no hand in the editing - and I don't much care. His silence says it all.

202 Comments

202 Comments


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[-] 6 points by windyacres (1002) 6 months ago

This article is over two years old but posters here probably don't read many articles from this publication.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/ralph-naders-grand-alliance/

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

thanks for making my point. IF the very first paragraph doesn't tell inform, NOTHING WILL.

[-] 2 points by windyacres (1002) 6 months ago

I don't understand how I made your point! The first paragraph describes Ralph Nader, (a longtime progressive), claiming that the democrat establishment is just as bad as the republicans.

The word establishment is key, as Nader obviously agrees much more with the message of democrats than republicans. He understands that the Democratic Party Establishment exists to protect the 1% just as much as any republican group. His focus is now on battling the Corporate State.

The article interested me with Nader pointing out that Libertarians were in agreement with progressives on several important issues. An alliance with libertarians, (who I perceive as lacking empathy), is not something I had considered.

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

I don't understand how I made your point!

rEAlly. How remarkable. Perhaps you should

READ IT AGAIN

.

.

stupid mutherfukers

[-] 2 points by windyacres (1002) 6 months ago

Again, I'm trying to make a different point from the point you made in your original post. Both parties are not the same, but both parties are for the same purpose, the Corporate State.

Ron Paul would never get my vote for not assuring everyone that a sick person would get medical care.

Libertarians like Ron Paul are considered republicans, but the article points out several issues where libertarians agree with progressives much more strongly than establishment or tea bagger republicans. That's hopeful news for OWS!

[-] -2 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

what? you're a little bit pregnant? How's that again?

[-] 4 points by windyacres (1002) 6 months ago

lol I feel like I'm in junior high again. Dingleberries for all!

[-] 1 points by RadicalsUnite (94) 6 months ago

high in junior high

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

what? you think it's funny? there is no such thing as being a little bit libertarian.

fukin repelicans dangle you like a fool.

I bet you chase after anything shiny . . .

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1002) 6 months ago

No, junior high stuff isn't funny anymore. Santa Claus taught me that it was possible to be a little bit libertarian, but I don't think I am. I'm like you, I just don't trust in the Democratic Party. I'll let you respond and get the last word.

[-] -2 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

I don't give a shit if you like them or not. As far as I can tell, there are only three ways to defeat the global corporatist cabal -

  1. with a long term presence on the street

    • and nations like Greece bring that strategy used by itself into serious question
  2. violent bloodshed that results in complete overthrow of the government

    • OWS rejected this strategy at the outset, and rightly so
  3. By co-opting one or more political parties

    • establishing a completely new party or co-opting an existing minority party leads to stagnation and gridlock within the political system, gridlock being the principle political aim of militaristic corporatist lackeys regardless of whether they are found in Israel or the U.S. Co-Opting a political party necessitates that it is either the dominant party or nearly so.

And again, OWS has rejected this strategy as well.

So. All the kids really want to do is sit around, smoke pot, and bang their kitchen utensils together. And you want us to join hands with global corporatists by pretending they are only a little bit libertarian.

I find you are seriously just a little bit pregnant with a seriously ugly bastard and it really is time to abort

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (8656) from Phoenix, AZ 6 months ago

The GOP work for the wealthy. Their chief concern is that the children of the wealthy and their children’s children for as far as eye can see can live in safety and wealth. Watch the 47% video again full version most interesting part is when Romney talks about his will to endear himself to group of rich folks there. It is always about the children, the wealthy need to make sure that their wealth will be protected from the hungry masses. Things like paying for health care for everybody threatens that, at least in their eyes. When thought though from "death tax" to cap gain tax and dividend tax, the whole system the GOP wants to bring about is a full Return of the King. It amazes me people don't see that.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (18251) 6 months ago

The Full 47% 'Romoney' Video :

Also consider - as the last two links clearly show ... IF ONLY it were just JUST The GOP !!!

"The essence of oligarchical rule is not father-to-son inheritance, but the persistence of a certain world-view and a certain way of life ... A ruling group is a ruling group so long as it can nominate its successors ... Who wields power is not important, provided that the hierarchical structure remains always the same." (George Orwell, ''1984'')

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

Repelican -

is a term of approbation,

a proof,

derogatory in nature,

intended to shame

and to ridicule

those who run for high office

upon a platform of lies before the whole world

and have not the decency to blush bright crimson.

they are reprehensible.

they are repulsive.

they are repellent.

they are repelicans . . .

[-] 3 points by columbiavalley (24) 6 months ago

That same definition fits well for Democraps too.

[-] -3 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

the difficulty seems to be that you simply cannot accept and will not acknowledge that the repelican party makes corruption and cronyism, along with the expansion of poverty and contraction of the middle class, part and parcel of party platform and DOGMA

Look at this fuking page

Note the layout. Wedge issue on top - big gap follows. Distraction based on emotional appeal. That is the basic deregulationist strategy.

Did I say all legislators operating under the democratic banner were operating in an honest and honorable manner, with the public's interests first and foremost? No, I did not.

Never the less, the gulf of difference between party is so huge, so completely undeniable, that any refusal to acknowledge said difference brings one's own credibility into stark relief.

It is abundantly clear: you are incapable of even a modest degree of honesty.

[-] 2 points by windyacres (1002) 6 months ago

We don't believe, "both parties are the same", in every detail. It's clear the dems have the best words, but I recognize both parties as sub-parties of corporatism.

I agree with Chris Hedges, Ralph Nader, and many others that a stronger change is needed than electing more dems, we've got to change the world.

[-] -1 points by columbiavalley (24) 6 months ago

That was well put windy. It would not be a stretch to say that most people in Occupy agree with you. It's just the partisan hacks who don't like you saying anything like that.

[-] 0 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

So what are you and windy running for and where?

[-] 4 points by windyacres (1002) 6 months ago

You're asking the wrong question, it won't help to join in on the corporate controlled process. I can understand others believing that because it's the only process offered, try and make the best of it, but I'm over that now.

The process has regressed where the survival theme of elected officials now is, "who can be safely ignored".

[-] -1 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

And this provides a way forward, how?

How will it negate the need for "rape insurance", for instance?

How will it remove the influence of folks like the Koch's from the system?

Does it even admit that they do?

[-] 2 points by windyacres (1002) 6 months ago

It provides a way forward by waking people up to what you and I know about the world. The waking up is occurring but we're getting tired of waiting for it, and taking our eyes off our goals. Convincing others that even though dems look and sound better, they're really the same as repubs when it comes to the hope and change we want.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

Do more than be a dingleberry.

[-] 0 points by windyacres (1002) 6 months ago

lol I will be proud if I make it to dingleberry!

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (18251) 6 months ago

"America's Duopoly of Money in Politics and Manipulation of Public Opinion", by Charles Ferguson (Director/Producer of * 'INSIDE JOB') :

respice ; adspice ; prospice ...

[-] 2 points by windyacres (1002) 6 months ago

Public opinion would be against a corporate state using a two party political system to govern the country. Most people still believe in the current process, and dingleberries everywhere should be shouting about this problem.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (18251) 6 months ago

yEP !!! Thom Hartmann's narration on the ''Heist'' is strongly recommended to you here windy. It's all a question of education @ this stage. Which is why OWS was meant to be. Then us 99% dingleberries can get together and make a large, full bodied, whine before we rethink deMOCKERYcy & rearrange demoCRAZY and finally reclaim .. Democracy !! Otherwise, very sadly it's that ''F'' word for sure ! :-/

Solidarity & HNY @ you & yours. The struggle continues ..

Sail this ship to and through the Stars - like now ...

per ardua ad astra

[-] 0 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

Do I really need to insert all the links to events in Michigan, Wisconsin, or even N. Carolina?

Again?

[-] 1 points by columbiavalley (24) 6 months ago

What are we "running for...?" (??)....err nothing.

Perhaps the better question is, 'Who are YOU working for?!?!'

[-] -1 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

I'm not.

How about you?

[-] 0 points by columbiavalley (24) 6 months ago

You're not on their payroll?... good!...then can I assume that being the objective soul that you must be, you see Neo-Democrappyans as being in the same league as libe(R)topians.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

OIC, conversation is happening and you can't stand it.

Yawn.

Predictable.

[-] -2 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

Pardon me??

Who did you say you work for?

CATO?

Heritage?

Mackinac center?

There seems to be a point of confusion here.

No one anywhere is as bad as the libe(R)topians.

They're Worldwide.

A concept that has so far eluded you, perhaps?

[-] 3 points by columbiavalley (24) 6 months ago

Ah yes, I am aware of your strange logic. Let's see...anyone who is not a partisan Democrap is a right winger....right??

From that twisted logic, can we assume that some of the biggest supporters of Occupy like, Hedges, Goldstein, Flowers, Zeese, O'Neil and Wolff (but to name a few) are all libe(R)topians??!!

My, my shooz you do have an active mind. I'll think of you the next time I see that bumper sticker, "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you." lol

[-] -1 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

What strange logic are you talking about, and what does it have to do with your desire to always "be in lock step"? ( why did you leave that conversation in the first place?)

Strange logic is in all those conclusions you've come to.

In fact, your response has absolutely nothing in common with the subject at hand, nor the questions I asked you.

hOw strange is that?

Very strange.

[-] 5 points by columbiavalley (24) 6 months ago

Am I correct in saying that you view nearly everyone on here who is not a Democrap as being a libe(R)topian?? I think so as time and again, you and your cohorts have implied that, or flat out stated it.

So it is an easy extrapolation for me or anyone else to see how your mind works when it comes to our kindred spirits, ie Hedges, Goldstein, Wolff etc. They are all libe(R)topians too....right?!

And BTW my replies have everything to so with the "strange" comments that you make.

Being on the left coast (with the time difference) , I've noticed that your multiple pseudonyms arrive in the wee hours to straighten things out. That's cute, and a clear sign of desperation on your part in trying to co-opt Occupy. We can't have non-partisans, especially shadz in the best comments, can we?!

[-] 4 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

Hey, check this out:

http://www.popularresistance.org/open-letter-to-ows-you-were-right-all-along/

From which I excerpt:

"There is a vast total-information-awareness surveillance network made up of global corporations and subservient (captured) governments engaging in the systematic infiltration and suppression of social justice activist groups. Their main method of control is the implementation of divide-and-conquer strategies. When it comes to activists, their approach is to apply these strategies to what they have defined as four distinct groups: Radicals, who see the system as corrupt are marginalized and discredited with character assassination techniques. Realists, who can be convinced that real change is not possible. Idealists, who can be convinced (through propaganda) that they have the facts wrong. And Opportunists, who are in it for themselves and therefore can be easily co-opted."

Now, far be it for me to claim there are any paid infiltrators on this site. Perhaps the character assassinations of the radicals on this site is just part of certain forum members personalities.

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[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

You're welcome, and I agree.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (18251) 6 months ago

Great comment and excerpt !!! Also fyi, I'll cross link to :

multum in parvo ...

[-] 3 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

Thanks for that cross-link, shadz. I was trying to find that Zeese/Flowers article but couldn't remember the title, since it dovetails rather well with my link, which I'm thinking of making its own post. I'll be using a different excerpt, though. ;-)

As a stand-alone post, I think the focus should be on the positive aspect of that article.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (18251) 6 months ago

''Humans are social beings, and the kind of creature that a person becomes depends crucially on the social, cultural and institutional circumstances of his (or her) life.

''We are therefore led to inquire into the social arrangements that are conducive to people's rights and welfare, and to fulfilling their just aspirations - in brief, the common good.

''About 70 percent of the population, at the lower end of the wealth/income scale, has no influence on policy ... Moving up the scale, influence slowly increases. At the very top are those who pretty much determine policy, by means that aren't obscure. The resulting system is not democracy but plutocracy.'' Briefly excerpted from :

Glad to oblige with the two Flowers and Zeese articles which are as excellent and revelatory as they are uplifting & I very much agree with any thoughts that you may have re. ''a stand alone post''. The thought had crossed my mind but I don't have time or headspace to nurture a 'forum-post' right now. I think that you'll find the Chomsky item above will act like a scholarly prequel to those Flowers and Zeese articles.

consilio et animis ...

[-] 3 points by flip (5437) 6 months ago

boy are you a sad little shit. is everything related to your beloved military state of Israel? not sure what is more disgusting - your promotion of the worst elements of Zionism or you worship of Obama. it's the Zionism that is more disgusting right - Obama is attacking 5 countries today (is it 6?) but not in the same brutal way israel is occupying one. and for how long now? don't bother responding - I can do it for you - "eat shit and die you troll" or maybe the ever reliable "go fuck yourself"

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21460) 6 months ago

"Democrats and Republicans in Congress were about equally wealthy, with Democrats boasting a median net worth of $1.04 million, compared to $1 million for congressional Republicans."

Hey flip, check this article out:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/10/us/politics/more-than-half-the-members-of-congress-are-millionaires-analysis-finds.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0

Seems the 1% doesn't know the difference between Democrats and Republicans. Go figure. Just like their policies.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

Did you need to pull out another one of your IDs? You got nothing. Again.

[-] -2 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

Hmmmmmm.

Why do you never mention how many States in the Union are under attack by our very own right wing?

Here's one from today.

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/01/virginia-anticipates-need-more-prison-beds

And this is without even mentioning Michigan.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (18251) 6 months ago

''The Banality Of Evil'' (Hannah Arendt) and ... 'The Serenity Of Conscience' (le petit moi) :

Let's not do this here now on ZD's thread GF but I will see you back on yours - very soon.

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 6 months ago

Props for sticking it to them, Gno.

All I'm seeing here this week, is absolute tyranny.

Is Jart aware that these fixated fools are playing God on her forum?

Is someone in contact with her about this?

[-] 4 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

The forum does seem to have developed a "divided" feel to it over time, hasn't it?

It's my understanding that Jart is pretty selective as to who she'll talk to, unfortunately.

[-] 4 points by Builder (4202) 6 months ago

Yeah, well, from what I'm seeing this last week, snooz thinks it's gawd, the dawg thinks it's gawd, and the bitch thinks it's gawd.

Hopefully, there's gonna be some skyrockets in gawd town while they belt eachother senseless.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, shit is going down.

Such a pity that these indescribables aren't interested.

[-] 4 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

Nero fiddles while Rome burns.

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

fukin horseshit.

The reality is that at this point everyone is engaged in character assassination to one degree or another. the only method of demonstrating who speaks from conviction, from those in quest of opportunity is with an examination of their statements over time. How have they changed, how have they stayed the same.

That goes to site layout and design. Something I have complained about since early on. Site layout and design does not facilitate tracking who is who and what they have said.

I am who I am and have been so since long before OWS, and I do not operate on the basis of hope. Hope is not a strategy. Neither is conviction, but at least it will carry one through when all hope is gone.

muther fukers

[-] 2 points by globalchill (-24) 6 months ago

"co opt occupy". Pls do not confuse this forum with the movement.

[-] 1 points by NotRockefellerTheOtherFella (-4) 6 months ago

Democrap shills camp out here and carpet bomb this forum with their establishment worship. OWS has always maintained they do NOT support any political establishment. Yet this forum is infested with duopoly supporters. The DemoCraps, RepubliCONs, and Libe(R/D)topians cannot solve our problems, they are our problems.

[-] 2 points by globalchill (-24) 6 months ago

I agree and agree with your thread today on that very subject (no doubt inspired by this one). I have voted for 3rd party candidates since the 80's. SOMEDAY, someone will win. Best to probably work state and local first. Getting a 3rd party Potus will take some time

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[-] 1 points by columbiavalley (24) 6 months ago

You're right. I stand corrected.

[-] 0 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

You are incorrect.

In all ways so far.

be careful with the concern trolling.

Incorrect and getting stranger.

[-] 1 points by columbiavalley (24) 6 months ago

Please elaborate on how I am "incorrect"

What is the difference between the posters on here that either you or your cohorts label "libe(R)topians", and say Hedges, O'Neil, Goldstein and/or Wolff??

Do you feel that all the posters who do not buy your partisan line of bullshit are libe(R)topians?! It would seem that way.

So why give those people who are kindred spirits, but not on the forum a pass?...'Cause if you follow your line of reasoning, they must be f..ing libe(R)topians too!

And BTW, what exactly is "concern trolling?" Is that another thing that you made up & deploy to save face for when you find yourself losing a debate...big time.

I agree tho... this is "strange!!"

[-] 1 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

You have been incorrect, in everything you've said so far.

With the possible exception of your desire for everyone to be in lockstep.

( you do seem to endorse that desire)

Machine gun, illogical statements and questions, can't save you now.

[-] -1 points by columbiavalley (24) 6 months ago

Replying here. Tell me shooz..how many partisan Democraps have you banned? I can't think of any!! Even a Democrap poster here who told another poster to put a gun in his mouth is back being as obnoxious as ever.

Then tell me how many posters on here that were not partisan Democraps, and spoke out strongly, but not profanely in not being so have you banned? The answer is tons.

My point: YOU!! are the one who wants us to be all "lockstep" Democraps!!

For me; I would be happy if everyone was able to express their ideas freely; I would be very pleased if you did not have a double-standard in who you decide should get banned, and I would be ecstatic if you did not tolerate the profanity that is directed mostly at non-partisans on here.

I do realize that your hands are tied though as you have an agenda to carry out that has little to do with the success of this movement.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

You mean profanity like: Fuck off, you multiple ID cockroach?

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

Replying here. Tell me shooz..how many partisan Democraps have you banned? I can't think of any!! Even a Democrap poster here who told another poster to put a gun in his mouth is back being as obnoxious as ever.

seriously . . . I wish the fuk you would. It would give me no end of pleasure . . .

[-] 0 points by globalchill (-24) 6 months ago

I couldn't agree more.

[-] 0 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

This is not a reply to anything.

This is definitely "concern trolling".

Who is it, you're pretending you used to be around here?

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by columbiavalley (24) 6 months ago

Unable to answer my simple question.. no problem, I understand. I'll just take it, that anyone who is not a partisan Democrap is a damn libe(R)topian...in your mind of course.

Revolutionaries are rarely in "lockstep." Being so is the MO of the timid and/or cowardly.

Are you gearing up for your revolutionary trip to the voting booth to vote for the same bribed party who has sold us out time and again

[-] 0 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

Actually, I already did answer it.

You just keep repeating yourself, as though I didn't.

It's YOU, who expects me to be in lockstep with you.

If you don't want to vote, that's your prerogative.

I'm sorry you get lost in conversation so easily

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 6 months ago

Go fly a kite.

You'd make more impact on the global situation that way.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

Hey, man are you ok? I just heard about you Doctors pull ‘large’ cockroach from Australian man’s ear in 10-minute procedure

The cockroach was trying to escape.

[-] 1 points by columbiavalley (24) 6 months ago

Replying here. Yes, that's it. That is the kind of profanity that I am talking about. Of course being a protected Democrap shill with impunity from being banned, you would never need to have another pseudonym (would you??), well other than the cadre you & the other Democraps have for up-voting your fellow shills & down-voting those who disagree with your Democrappyan bs

And btw, as evidenced by your sewer-mouth and your support of the neocons in Zionist Israel, YOU are light years away from being a paragon of virtue...really...lol

Just out of interest, tell me; Is your point total the most important thing in your life? I suspect so, and that is truly sad.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21460) 6 months ago

Let's set the record straight here. Columbiavalley is not a concern troll. He's nothing of the sort. He is a real occupier, who attends Occupy events, whose heart is in the right place, whose politics are clearly on the side of Occupy, who has been banned over and over again due to grudges and vindictiveness by the forum's moderators. That is the only reason he has several monikers. He is a stalwart Occupier in every sense of the word.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21460) 6 months ago

From the NY Times:

"Democrats and Republicans in Congress were about equally wealthy, with Democrats boasting a median net worth of $1.04 million, compared to $1 million for congressional Republicans."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/10/us/politics/more-than-half-the-members-of-congress-are-millionaires-analysis-finds.html?ref=todayspaper

Seems the 1% can't distinguish between Democrats and Republicans. That's why it's so hard to distinguish their policies in any meaningful way. They have the very same interests.

Stay steadfast. Occupy Wall Street! Never give up!

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

I'm an independent. I can't stand teathuglicans. I don't like blue dogs either. There are precious few democrats that I like. But, you knew that. You're just a repetitive dirtbag.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

Yawn-support of the neo cons?-----you bitches played and you lost. Like you do. You don't have pseudonyms. You run multiple IDs. And bots.

And you don't like it when you get called out. How unfortunate.

[-] -1 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

Yoo hoo!

Mr. Concern troll.

You never answered my question.

Do you have an actual issue to talk about?

[-] -3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (19922) 3 minutes ago

Let's set the record straight here. Columbiavalley is not a concern troll. He's nothing of the sort. He is a real occupier, who attends Occupy events, whose heart is in the right place, whose politics are clearly on the side of Occupy, who has been banned over and over again due to grudges and vindictiveness by the forum's moderators. That is the only reason he has several monikers. He is a stalwart Occupier in every sense of the word. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


Bullshit. At any point, he could have gone to Jart.

[-] -1 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

The other chap was your puppet?

I didn't know.

If your're really writing a book, will you be leaving that part out?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

[-] 2 points by shooz (25774) 1 minute ago

Hmmmmmm.

Why do you never mention how many States in the Union are under attack by our very own right wing?

Here's one from today.

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/01/virginia-anticipates-need-more-prison-beds

And this is without even mentioning Michigan. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


Don't expect anything remotely resembling a sane answer. He was aware that his last gamble was going to cost him. He played and he lost.

He isn't here for anything remotely close to acknowledging this. He lost ground some four months ago and they can't get it back.

[-] -1 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

Few seem to notice that it was the aftermath of the Sandy Hook gun nutters invasion of the forum, that really created a vacuum here.

They chased off so many posters, it isn't funny.

On the other hand, it did expose all the remaining concern trolls.

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[+] -5 points by OpinionsArentLies (0) 6 months ago

It wont put it in writing. It would mean a pay cut.

Of course, "it" openly admits it hasnt had a few hours out of two years to participate, so who knows whats up.

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

Ralph Nader . . . the ass who ran and divided the electorate when it mattered most. nice.

so much for your appeal to authority

[-] 3 points by windyacres (1002) 6 months ago

Yes, History would be much different if Nader hadn't run for president. I wish I would have listened to him back then. He says now that corporatism is the problem and not political parties, and I agree.

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

trying to have it both ways . . .

  • what a crock of shit
[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 months ago

US policy of military aggression has not changed

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

IF you cannot accept the vast gulf that exists between party on social issues, any discussion regarding the nuance of difference between party on military policy is certain to be a waste of time.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 months ago

fair enough

[-] -1 points by globalchill (-24) 6 months ago

They pretend to hold different social values to keep the citizens split. They have no true values of their own other than greed and self interest. You really believe LBJ (or JFK, for that matter) waged a war on poverty and racism because they felt it right in their heart of hearts? No, they believed it to be the politically right thing to do. As LBJ famously bragged he'd have them niggers voting Dem for the next 100 years....he's 1/2 way there, which is mighty ironic given that all the Great Society stuff passed with Republican support. You know, the party of Abe Lincoln.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

that is the repelican party line told to all the wayward children who are uncommitted to paying attention and voting.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

yeah-ya, I saw that. just like I saw those red cars and that t shirt that said helping the world keep promises. so what. so fuking what I said. I don't give a shit. Do Not mistake me for someone who does.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

what a crock of shit I said.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

Are you stirrin' up the duopolists again?

Of course they're not the same. That's why stuff about Detroit and Michigan, gets ignored, even though it's a picture in motion about how and why they are not the same.

Something almost every week.

They only way they appear the same, is when you are looking down the throat of the MIC.

So few seem to fully understand what Eisenhower was describing.

Oh, it's also why they hate the truth in the statement.

As go the States, so goes the Nation.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

&Are you stirrin' up the duopolists again?

I just couldn't help myself . . .

[-] -1 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

LOL

What the hell.

It's not like they've ever calmed down anyway.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

their chorus should begin dimming any day now. I mean, how long can it go on? Duop was soo 1950s . . . the fukers must all be in their 70s by now.

[-] -1 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

'Splaining it, 12 ways to Sunday hasn't helped a bit.

It's a handy, thought free, off the shelf distraction.

Plus it sounds all revolutionaryish.

It just goes hand in hand with their black and white thought process.

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

I do wish they would do something really useful, like off themselves . . .

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

I haven't seen the commercial or Charlie Rose.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

you are not missing much.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

Hey, Shooz. I can't reply to your last .......replies. So, can you have a look-see here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-a-crock-of-shit/#comment-1017502

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

you are completely wrong, but thanks for the bump . . .

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

What a Crock of Shit I said.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

[-] 1 points by go4broke (40) 20 hours ago

ME a "liar"? ..NO, At worse, I have drawn the wrong assumption from your silence concerning Ms Friday's support of Israel, and their brutal suppression of the Palestinians.

You can bet your ass though if kindred spirits like shadz, Renneye or beautifulworld put up a thread and/or comments in support of a government that treated a near defenseless people in such an inhumane way, I would not hesitate in the least in criticizing them severely. Please feel free to call me on it if I don't.

Instead...YOU overlook it! Why? 'Cause she is a fellow proselytizing Democrat and there ain't many left here, that's why.

And for better or worse, I have no idea


Replying to you here. You don't give a fuck about the Palestinians. You are the biggest war mongering piece of shit that has hit the site. You and Shadz-of-stank. What you mean is NO WAR with your fingers crossed behind your back. That's what you mean. You support terrorists AND you aren't bright enough to figure out that the ideology behind a few of these groups does not allow for any type of peace. Nor are you smart enough to figure out that those groups do NOT represent all of the Palestinians. That's not liberal. That's shit.

[-] -1 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

Have a little patience my old friend.

Like someone around here once said. (me)

No "one" here represents OWS.

OWS, is an amalgamation of all of it's protesters and supporters.

Candidates are coming to the forefront.

One in Seattle. already elected.

One to run in Michigan.

And now?

One to run in California.

http://www.occupy.com/article/austerity-abundance-why-i-am-running-california-treasurer

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

Great - meanwhile the Congressional gridlock enables everyone to pass the buck rather than pass sensible legislation, the public continues to loose ground on some important issues, and Global Warming shows no sign of waiting for us to get our shit together in the least.

Honestly I'm sick of it. We either have, or we soon will, reach a point where the only solution to the political bullshit is the chaos created by the total collapse of civilization as the seas displace hundreds of millions and drought induces starvation on a global scale.

Stupid fukers really piss me off.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

I know ZD, but it took decades to get this bad.

That candidates are being fielded already is a good sign.

That one's been elected an even better sign.

My wife finally signed a petition today from movetoamend.

You know I'm in complete agreement with you on global warming.

It's one of those things I like to toss at the duopolists from time to time.

What party is most active in climate change denial?

Did you see what they are actually teaching down in Texas?

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

I try to ignore Texas. That fukin place is crazy. I've read articles about the education system in the past, censoring Jefferson for crying out loud - and then there have been at least two murders that I can think of that definitely raise eyebrows, and yet no one says shit.

That's the future of the nation if libertarian bullshit really takes hold.

fuk that

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago
[-] -1 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

That was absolutely why. Those people really are completely insane.

Wasn't that why the President of France declined to get involved and we got american fries?

A mention of gog and magog in a phone call from Bush?

It would seem that insanity is an accepted state of being to some of those folks.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

Crazy people are often quite clueless as to the nature of their own condition. And that really is the only explanation for the status of civilization and democracy in Texass . . .

The first page of this google search turns up four or five cases of sleeping attorneys at trial over the past decade alone -

and Texass is not only the home of Dealey Plaza - a fact in and of itself that should be more than sufficient to bring about a deep and intense sense of shame, remorse, and silent, contemplative introspection that lasts decades and has not -

it is also where eminent citizens of the banking industry have been seen to fund such extreme examples of fascism that no real comparison in global politics is either reasonable or even possible. And yet neither the family involved nor the political establishment which enabled their rise to power has shown the least evidence of shame or remorse.

And then there is ExxonMobile, headquartered in Irving, Texas, which is now overtly engaged in shaping public opinion around energy policy in an obvious attempt to ensure the longevity of their business model and principle investment, fossil fuels.

the fukin scumbags

[-] 2 points by agkaiser (1321) from Fredericksburg, TX 6 months ago

When I lived in Arizona, I knew the majority were bat shit crazy. Then I moved to Texas to be near my grandchildren. Now I know how insanity is amplified by mid double digit IQs.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

Libe(R)tarians, know no shame.

Why else would they make it illegal to give to the poor?

[-] -1 points by globalchill (-24) 6 months ago

The dog says..a demand not heard during the eight long years of total and complete BUSHITE which saw us launch war on two fronts . . .

Uh, how many countries has Obomber invaded in 5 years (on credit). Let's see...Egypt, Libya,Syria,Sudan,Somalia, Pakistan. Oh, but drones are cheaper than boots on the ground? I see. You are just being a fiscal hawk, not a peacenik, eh?

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

nice distraction. The point was that repelicans demand budget cuts over very modest program increases - modest of course by comparison with the trillions spent in Afghanistan and Iraq.

It's a typical repelican ploy used on leftists who are not content with current policy - focus on the war to illustrate the point - both parties are the same - it's a lie.

Ask McCain.

[-] -1 points by globalchill (-24) 6 months ago

McCain? Would it be better if I asked him on his red or blue day? Talk about someone who keeps forgetting how the issues have been divvied up!

Political circus. Almost as 'real' as WWF.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

What a Crock of Shit I said.

Do yo want to talk social policy or military policy?

McCain serves as an extreme version of repelican military aspiration. See his statements regarding Georgia and Libya.

you repelican shill you

[-] -1 points by globalchill (-24) 6 months ago

He also backed Obomber over arming radical islamists in Syria. You know, those guys who are sworn enemies of the USA?

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

wow, that's some spin. I never heard anyone in the Fedral govmint was advocating arming al Qaeda these days . . .

and If you can prove your wild ass.ertion - I'll arrest them . . .

as a citizen I believe I can do that.

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago
[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

How interesting. Am I the only one now wondering what interest the CIA may have in assisting the rise of alternative banking in the U.S.?

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

CIA and money? lol. I don't see where they are assisting but it would not surprise me.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

O I dunno - it was just a wild stab in the dark. I mean, look at the guy. Doesn't he just look repelican? What better cover for a CIA guy than as a repelican ostensibly assisting OWS?

The kids would never believe it, and the bankers would all catch their breath, blanch, and then wink timidly, hoping against hope they are all on the same side . . . and if things went just the right way it could turn into a we're the good guys pr campaign some years down the road - on the side of the little guy against the bankers and the evil dictators at every turn . . .

I see you have doubts? Well, I could be wrong. It was just a stab in the dark.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

Here is the board of directors http://www.independentdiplomat.org/about-us/board-of-directors

Scott Ogur (Treasurer)

CFO of Delaware Valley Financial Group; former CFO of Algorithmic Trading Management; former CFO and Chief Investment Officer of Scimitar, a private venture capital firm investing in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Iraq, Romania, Switzerland, and the U.A.E.; former portfolio manager at J.P. Morgan Private Bank; former auditor and accountant at Price Waterhouse, Chemical Bank and J.P. Morgan.

http://dvfgbrokerage.com/

Ok, I'll be back later. I have to go out for a bit.

EDIT: Add on this http://reporting.sunlightfoundation.com/lobbying/fara/4806

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

Well, he looks for sure like a Colbert wannabe in that pic.

This: and if things went just the right way it could turn into a we're the good guys pr campaign some years down the road - on the side of the little guy against the bankers and the evil dictators at every turn . . .

I do agree with.

Let's have a look see at this guy and how it works: http://polisario-confidential.org/108-exclusive-the-polisario-front-has-hired-independent-diplomat-inc.html

Give me a minute here.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

I think somethings up . . . what thing is some thing we cannot know for certain but certainly it is not nothing . . .

witness . . .

  • Exclusive: The Polisario Front has hired “Independent Diplomat Inc” by Khalid Ibrahim Khaled | posted: July 15, 2008 0 comment

why would Khalid Ibrahim Khaled's link to his bio http://polisario-confidential.org/author/KhalidIbrahimKhaled-2 be broken?

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

omg - from shooz's link:

I think that is what Vance Packard referred to as whole systems management . . .

.

seriously, we should just kill'em'all. I say that with a deep understanding of the human suffering and misery these fukers have wrought . . .

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

I'm reading through them now. Yay, Shooz.

I'm following link to link and before I get lost I want to put this here:


Do FMS Sales require Congressional Notification?

The U.S. Arms Export Control Act, Sec 36 requires Congressional notification for FMS or DCS sales expected to meet or exceed:

For North Atlantic Treaty Organization member countries, South Korea, Australia, Japan, Israel, and New Zealand: major defense equipment (MDE) of $25M or more; any defense articles or services of $100M or more; or design and construction services of $300M or more.

For all other countries: MDE of $14M or more; any defense articles and services of $50M or more; or design and construction services of $200M or more.

For North Atlantic Treaty Organization member countries and organizations, South Korea, Australia, Japan, Israel, and New Zealand there is a 15-day statutory notification period.

For all other countries there is a 30-day statutory notification period. Link

My question. Anything less than the $ amounts given does not need congressional approval? Am I reading this right?

and then there is this: http://www.dsca.mil/programs/fmf

[-] 0 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

Here's another OMG for you.

Mr. Khanna has ties to the New America foundation as well.

http://www.newamerica.net/

Shiny web site, eh?

Welp. a little further research, finds that site has ties to not only Google, but the Pete Peterson Foundation.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/New_America_Foundation

File under.....Oh what a tangled web is woven.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

what

the

fuk

is a

  • hybrid reality

and why

would such a thing need an

institute

[-] 0 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

Good question and a web site that bears looking into.

http://hybridreality.me/

Mr. Khanna is also involved here.

http://www.newamerica.net/

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

Also on the board: Parag Khanna

Director of the Global Governance Initiative and senior research fellow in the American Strategy Program at the New America Foundation; author of How to Run the World: Charting a Course to the Next Renaissance and The Second World: Empires and Influence in the New Global Order; former senior geopolitical advisor to United States Special Operations Forces in Iraq and Afghanistan; former Global Governance Fellow at the Brookings Institution and former research associate at the Council on Foreign Relations.

Muckety New America Foundation: http://www.muckety.com/New-America-Foundation/5001347.muckety

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

I like their interactive map.

I see only one small problem with it.

Overpopulation.

We can fix that.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

"So, in case anyone missed that you can get a clear picture of the type of douche bag that you're dealing with. He hasn't changed. He is exactly the same. He is going to target you and Shooz."

It's called a debate, you dumb fucking cunt. Me and Zen have diametrically opposed views about politics, and scroll your little ass thru this thread and see who called who names. Hint: not once did I call Zen anything close to "fuckin' snake."

And if you're referring to my convo with Shooz on the Cheerios thread, I was respectful the whole time despite me and him having our "differences."

You've been outed for what you are, and the forum sees it. You're done. Fuck off.

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

nice - you consider twisting the words of your opponent a form of . . . what exactly? Because I really don't get it. It's another lie. It's cheap. It's a tacit admission that your position is untenable, but lack the courage or the conviction to accept that fact

you fukin cunt

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

No, you dumb fucking cunt. That's not a debate. That's you being a fucking condescending piece of shit and twisting shit. The only thing that has been outed on this forum is that you are still the dirtbag that you always were. So, you fuck off.

Make no mistake you passive aggressive fucktwit-I am 100% aggressive.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

so, you know, now I'm convinced. this whole thing is an intel op and he is somebodies pet. the fukers are insane and they should all just go hang themselves.

Or each other . . .

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

So, I had a very nice reply and now it is gone. But, ya, I think so.

ID is technically no different from any of the other lobbyists. http://www.fara.gov/qs-primary.html

We knew that the US was to provide light arms etc. We know that some source said that they were taking all necessary precautions to keep them out of AQ hands. Because they had an entire article that even stated how they got the weapons there. Because the most covert thing to do is to put that out there......because nobody else in any other country would read it. So, it was a super secret. Just sayin'.

I don't think that this is a new game. I think it's the same game. It's just a question of who gets what when it's over.

But, whilst doing this, I had a few other questions. That I am hoping that this will answer. https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/aeca.html But, I want to go through the site and the other carefully.

[-] 3 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

Start packing your bags and head to DC. I'm a bit surprised you haven't heard this yet.

http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/09/17/obama-bypasses-terrorism-rule-to-give-weapons-to-syrian-rebels/

Now, before you start slamming Firedoglake, Google "US arms syrian rebels" and you'll see write-ups about in from Washington Post, CNN, RT.com, the UK's Telegraph, Global Research, and others. They run the gamut from MSM to so-called "conspiracy sites" like GlobalResearch.

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 6 months ago

This isn't really news to me.

(quote) The US secretary of state vowed Washington’s support for the Iraqi government in its fight to regain control of towns in its western province taken over by militants belonging to the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

That’s rich. The government of Syria is battling to root out these same al-Qaeda-linked militants. But in that country, Washington offers no such support. In fact, the priority there for Washington is to sack the government of President Bashar Al-Assad.

So, how does Kerry square that contradiction? In Iraq, al-Qaeda is a threat that needs to be defeated, whereas in Syria the very same organization is apparently not a threat, but the Syrian government is.

What’s even richer is that Kerry was issuing his warnings about al-Qaeda in the region surrounded by senior members of the House of Saud, who are known to all the world as the bankers, recruiters and weapons suppliers of this network. (end quote)

Full story below.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37323.htm#.UszupMsEH2Q.facebook

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

Hmmm, kinda like in 1945 a Nazi was a "enemy combatant" but in 1946 he was an "intelligence asset."

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

All Syrian rebels are members of al Qaida . . .

I had not heard that.

[-] 3 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

"All Syrian rebels . . ." sounds like propaganda to me. From the couple articles I've read, it sounds like they're implying a significant percentage, possibly a majority, of the rebels may have "ties" to Al-Qaida, so it's hard to say how many. But considering our government helped form Al-Qaida in the first place, I wouldn't be surprised they they'd "partner up" with them if the need would ever arise.

That's how the geopolitical game is played; one day your enemy, the next an ally.

So then, I guess the question then becomes "does our government have anything to gain politically and / or militarily by doing so?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

thank you for clarifying the title of this thread . . .

[-] 3 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

And thank you for reaffirming the clarity of that lens thru which you view world affairs.

It's always a pleasure conversing with you, Zen. No shit. You can never tell which way you'll swerve. ;-)

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

I have no doubt there are those both among the public and the private sector who would not bat an eye at the possibility of collaborating with al Qaeda. What you are proposing amounts to a very public alliance - something that in this instance would be most certainly unpalatable to at least one party.

IF it turns out we are arming al Qaeda, it is most likely a scandal contrived for domestic public consumption, set to run sometime between June and September.

As I said . . .

  • What a Crock of Shit
[-] 3 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 6 months ago

From the very birth of this nation, Liberal-Whigs and Loyalist-Tories DIFFERED over our very independence: Loyalists (or Royalists) wanted their authoritarian King and wanted nothing to do with "democracy," exactly like their decedents today in the RepubliCon Cult whose Charlie Manson is the 1%.

Whigs won the day and Independence and democracy, and are basically today's Democratic Party, and remain fundamentally and radically different from Cons. To say they are the same is an insulting, ignorant, and vicious smear on Democrats. Making it the ultimate campaign tactic of the RW, because the only way Cons get in office is by fraud, propaganda, Voter Suppression, and/or cheating. No one but a small number of Loyalists want an Authoritarian, Fascist Theocracy ~ but people can be duped with Guns, Bibles, Abortion, Gays, Immigrants, Taxes and Fox Lies.

Suffice it to say, name any good thing America has accomplished, and you'll see RepubliCons fighting against it, and Democrats fighting for it (We the People, Civil Rights, Public Services, Laws, Regulations, NASA, Weekends, on and on). Dems are the Liberal-Progressive-thinkers working for the 99%, with it's share of DINO, Blue Dog & Conservative bastards; Cons are the Conservative-Authoritarian (T-Bag & Libertarian), agents of Wealth, believers, working for the 1%, with a few RINOs & Moderates. Gigantic differences!

Our political system, in it's present state of exploitation and corruption, deliberately creates the false sense that all politicians are as bad as democracy & America hating RepubliCons. Due to the unforeseen, by our forefathers, problem of Voter apathy (lowest Voter turnout), and the subsequent weakness of our democracy, our politics and government have been purchased by the 1% (today's Kings). In order to get and stay in the game, to do whatever good they can still do, many Dems are forced to pander to the money. Thus allowing asshole Cons and disengaged Unicorn Chasers to declare both "parties" are the same, in utter speciousness and embarrassing ignorance!

As far as the Global War on Terror that Cheney/Bush started [as ordered], the [entrenched] Military Industrial & Congressional Complex had this plan on the shelf for decades. And no goddamn, peon people's choice, skinny, black POTUS was going to end their party in the middle of all this theft, graft, and redistribution of wealth to the top 1%.

Who do these "both-same" assholes think their fooling? People, WTFU!!

The Global War on Terrorism: The First 100 Days http://2001-2009.state.gov/s/ct/rls/wh/6947.htm

2010 Never EVER Again!

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

doesn't that link help reinforce the idea of sameness between party?

[-] 5 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 6 months ago

It shows the premeditated attack on many countries that these New World Order bastards had in mind years before 9/11, using 9/11 as an excuse. Syria and Pakistan being just two of over a hundred.

[-] 0 points by DNCheadquarters (0) 6 months ago

WSmith, our usual payments we send to your account are not going through. The money for your DNC shilling, propaganda and lies are stacking up. It's probably due to the Polar Vortex. Please provide an alternative routing number. Thanks again for supporting the establishment and perpetuating the false political dichotomy. Your 1% money is waiting for you.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 6 months ago

The astonishing reliable irony of Con-Zombies: 99% of everything they accuse others of, is exactly what they are doing. Check it and see, it's hilarious! The VERY worst thing they can smear their opposition with, is charging them with being like RepubliCons! Isn't that RICH?

It's also just another ONE of the INFINITE differences between Cons & Dems.

Cons don't live in a fact based world, they live in a world of belief & obedience.

~ AND ~

Facts and Truth have a liberal bias.

But if some rich Lib-Dem-Prog Org or Private Interest wants to pay me, what the fuck took you soooo long? & The payment(s) better be retroactive!

[-] -3 points by globalchill (-24) 6 months ago

Hee,hee. Good one! I suspect he is leaving the monies he earns shillin here as a contribution to Ready for Hillary.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

Yeah, last June to September! And it wasn't public at all until someone broke the story. If memory serves me right, it was originally being funneled thru some Mideast intermediary, maybe the Sauds. I don't recall who.

How the hell did you miss it?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

a) I've been rather busy, b) I haven't heard the Syrian rebels have been receiving sufficient arms what so ever, that rather the complaint has been that the U.S. has been refusing arms specifically because of fears of arming al Qaeda linked militants, and that one of the consequences has been a strengthening of those very militants precisely because they get their arms elsewhere.

It remains to be seen if in fact this is yet one more deliberate attempt by U.S. and western intell agencies to provide a killing ground to al Qaeda linked militants. With the appearance of al Qaeda as a viable alternative to the Assad military regime the prospect of victorious jihad becomes much more marketable at the local bazaar.

Talk about a recruiting tool.

And no I was not talking about last summer, since last summer is totally irrelevant to the upcoming election cycle.

[-] -1 points by globalchill (-24) 6 months ago

Actually, it's because Iran is an Assad ally and you know what they say about politics and bedfellows. I didn't say "foreign policy" because EVERYTHING is a political calculation in the Obumbler WH. Am sure you are aware of Secdef Gates new book?

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

Not only have I heard of this new book, I also heard that this book provides lavish praise on this White House over the decision to kill bin Laden.

Given that small fact, perhaps the complaints regarding the current President have been completely misinterpreted.

Perhaps the point Gates was attempting to make is that the deliberate generation of government distrust as illustrated here have a negative consequence all across the U.S. It permeates all strata of our society. The revelations put forth by Snowden are simply the tip of the ice berg. The DoD has gone far too far, and one of the consequences, deliberately or no, is to provide even more fodder for that repelican insistence on smaller government.

As for myself, I find it most likely that it is a deliberate and desirable side effect - at least from the perspective of those generating that public fear of the government with various cointelpro tools and techniques designed to destabilize and sow fear among the general population.

Most of them, I am certain, are either apolitical or they are repelican . . .

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

I also have no doubt the story plays as well among angry tea party repelicans as it is likely to among disenchanted peacenics.

And that is a fact that repelican party strategists have, I am quite sure, already foreseen.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

It's not about fuckin' repelicans, ya freak. It's about resource exploitation. From the Black Sea to the Chinese border. The New Great Game.

Jeez, man!

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

sure, that's a significant part of the story. One that was quite evident in Nigeria while Ken Saro-Wiwa was alive, only because he insisted on telling the world about the consequences. After all the major players were hung or had heart attacks that story just went away - despite the fact that the Ogoni people have been living with annual oil spills that rival the BP disaster . . .

Rarely do such facts garner much attention. Nor is that the subject of this thread. Rather the focus is on how this kind of exploitation takes place and that is with governmental systems that refuse to address the needs of the people. In the U.S. that translates into weak central government and deregulation.

You probably haven't noticed but both initiatives are repelican party platform and policy. They have an exclusive corner on legislative efforts designed to further both and engage in extensive efforts to bribe, corrupt, or to cajole members of the opposing party to go along with the plan, and when they do, it provides fodder for their grand lie: both parties are the same. They are not.

Now why you have taken us on an excursion into tangents is an interesting question worthy of some contemplation - five seconds worth at least.

[-] 3 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

Uh, I didn't take us on a tangent, that would've been globalchill, if anyone. Your mention of Al-Qaida is what got you and I on this path, my friend. You claimed you hadn't heard of this administration funding arms to AQ and I corrected your mistake, pointing out that it was widespread news last summer.

But while I'm here, I'll give a nod to the OP and comment about one of your statements:

"They have an exclusive corner on legislative efforts designed to further both and engage in extensive efforts to bribe, corrupt, or to cajole members of the opposing party to go along with the plan, and when they do, it provides fodder for their grand lie: both parties are the same."

Well, Zen, if said opposing party is bribed, corrupted or cajoled into "going along with the plan," does that not put them on the same page? The same path? With the same end goal?

Now, I'm not claiming both parties are the same, per se, but when they both work in concert for their corporate or MIC paymasters, what's the diff?

Claiming both parties are the same is a simplistic, dare I say reductionist, observation akin to saying all actors in a movie are playing the same role. But like actors in a movie, all politicians have their role to play. You guys crack me up with your contention that the Dems are really on the side of the people and only do bad things when the Repubs stick a metaphorical gun to their head.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17724) 6 months ago

And that's what libe(R)topians do.

Exploit.

All over the World.

Bet ya got some in your State.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

You'll get no argument from me on either statement.

[-] -1 points by karenagusta (1) from Wichita, KS 6 months ago

Lol libe(R)topians. Where did you get that term?

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

Awww, Zen, where's the love

I liked you better when the place was busier . . .

Of course, when the place was busier you were lying more quietly

which means you were telling even bigger lies

what a shame

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

"I liked you better when the place was busier," heheh.

I still like you just as much as I always have, Zen, I just like fucking with you sometimes. Don't take it so personal. I respect anyone with your level of intelligence even if we don't agree on things.

But one thing I'm not is a liar. I might be mistaken sometimes, I might talk a little trash on occasion, I might be totally off-base on some things, but a liar I try not be.

However, if you have proof of any lies, I'd sure like to see some . . .

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

Hey genius, Verbal Kint WAS Keyser Söze.

Of course I can follow a plot. It isn't my fault if you lack either the imagination or the experience to understand how the myth of Keyser Söze created by Verbal Kint required the sacrifice of an actual underworld kingpin as a foundation for the myth. But never mind.

You claim 50 out of 53 Senators took money from the fracking industry. And from your link we see that these campaign contributions were accepted by Senator Bernie Sanders (I, VT) as well as others. Thus it is clear that either you are suggesting Senator Sanders is in the habit of accepting bribes - or you have completely MIScharacterized the nature of these funds.

I do not care for the current rules around campaign financing and I am sure the Senator does not either. But there it is. Campaigns require air time. Air time costs money. And it would seem that rich people, that Koch suckers, are permitted to spend all the money they like, funding lies, against which an honest candidate must raise funds if they are to air an opposing point of view.

It is more bullshit.

As far as the President and the democrats being in bed with big oil, you might do a little research into the influence and methodology of the oil industry itself. Senator Sanders, (I, Vt) complained about fuel pricing in Vermont. The price as I recall dropped during the first week, while the news cycle focused on the issue, then during the second week the prices rose and settled slightly above where they had been before, and there they have largely remained - and that despite a significant drop in price nationwide.

Prior to that, Congressman Welch, (D, Vt) complained in February, about five or six years ago, about fuel pricing. Within two weeks time, not one, but two industrial explosions took place. One was in Texas involving a refinery which when taken off line due to the explosion resulted in an increase in price. The second explosion was in the south east, and I cannot now recall what, if any, relationship that facility may or may not have had with big oil.

Of course, such incidents often go unremarked, no matter how odd their coincidental nature may appear. IF they did not go unremarked then I am certain they would happen much less often - witness for yourself:

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

Don't even get me started about Keyser Söze. ;-)

As far as mischaracterizing the nature of the funds in that link, I've done nothing of the sort. That link was in a comment from one of our posters a few weeks back that came from an article entitled something like "88% of Congress accepted bribes from the fracking industry," or something to that effect. I couldn't find the actual article but did have that link I gave you bookmarked.

My point being that, regardless of what's happening at the local or state level, at the national level that's one example of the duopoly that you guys claim doesn't exist. That's the very definition of duopoly as understood outside the narrow definition found in dictionaries. Both parties working in concert to the detriment of the people, for the benefit of the elitists.

I'm looking at your links as we speak. I find that second one quite interesting.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 6 months ago

It's that cognitive dissonance again.

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[-] 1 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

Poor sap.

And with such a gifted mind, too.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

So, I can only assume from your comment that there is no bribery going on

you are a little fuking snake

you are the one putting forth the concept that campaign contributions are bribery, and you have provided a link that supports that point of view. that is not the current law.

you want me to get with the program and you can'T even get with the facts

and when the facts don't conform to your point of view you give them a little twist.

we're done here. fuk you

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

Awww, Zen, where's the love, buddy? And I was having such a good time, too.

Snake is not an apt descriptor. But be sure to keep us up on all the latest political news from HuffPo and Reuters, you hear? And get ready because Hillary will be needing your support come 2016. Get that dialing finger primed, my friend.

It's been fun, ZD. See you next time.

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

So, in case anyone missed that you can get a clear picture of the type of douche bag that you're dealing with. He hasn't changed. He is exactly the same. He is going to target you and Shooz.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

As far as mischaracterizing the nature of the funds in that link, I've done nothing of the sort. That link was in a comment from one of our posters a few weeks back that came from an article entitled something like "88% of Congress accepted bribes from the fracking industry,"

so just because someone else mischaracterizes the nature of the funding is no excuse for you to do so but it does indicate a great deal about the nature of your own integrity and character.

Given that there is in fact an American in Prison on this precise criteria I find your argument not only without merit, but utterly loathsome.

The two party system in this nation may be on the threshold of plunging us into abject tyranny, but only one of these two welcomes that possibility without restraint.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

One man's "bribe" is another man's "campaign contribution." Although I only skimmed your link, it looks to me like Siegelman didn't actually bribe anyone. The Repubs didn't like him and used their clout to get rid of him.

So, I can only assume from your comment that there is no bribery going on in politics, because if so, the culprit would be prosecuted. Are you serious?

Your problem, Zen, is you rely almost exclusively on mainstream media for ALL your political information. Every link you post to prove your points comes from MSM. Every one.

Get with the program, Zen. As it is you're just being an unwitting tool.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

Uh, I didn't take us on a tangent, that would've been globalchill, if anyone.

don't give me that - the whole world can see exactly what you did even if you cannot. It's right here, plain as day

Newsflash, hotshot - you don't get to decide what this forum post is about, and you do not because you did not write it.

And I don't ever recall seeing you at the boycott Shell protest.

.

You are confusing corruption that takes place on an individual level with that which is in fact party policy - a huge difference.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

Your "right here, plain as day" link is broke. All I get is "problem loading page."

No matter, let's scan thru the thread and see what's what. Hmmm, my first comment on here is this one:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-a-crock-of-shit/#comment-1017414

Which was a comment made because you claimed you hadn't heard our administration had been arming AQ rebels in Syria, here:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-a-crock-of-shit/#comment-1017412

At that time you were already into a convo with globalchill, started here:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-a-crock-of-shit/#comment-1017402

But it's no secret you have trouble following a plot, as seen here:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/just-the-usual-suspects/

Hey genius, Verbal Kint WAS Keyser Söze. Jeez!

Newsflash, hotshot - at no time did I attempt to decide anything about the direction of this post, all I did was join in it. Don't be twisting shit around just because you don't like what I had to say. Hell, I even tried to steer it back on course with my reply. And in case you hadn't noticed, most, if not all, threads that get over a couple dozen replies usually go off on a tangent or two.

And I don't recall seeing you at the Peabody Coal protest.

And lastly, I'm not confusing shit. Let's talk a second about the Democrats. You remember, the ones that are on our side?

http://www.citizensforethics.org/pages/database-fracking-industry-contributions-to-113th-congress

50 out of 53 Democratic Senators took bribes from the fracking industry. That's half the fucking Senators in the US. 146 Democratic Rep's took money vs. 55 Democratic Rep's that didn't. Which, in my book, would make Obama's (a Democrat) new energy policy decidedly bi-partisan. You know, that energy policy that has opened up vast swaths of the US to fracking plus the Arctic Ocean? You know, where Obama bragged in a speech that the US would become the "new Saudi Arabia" for oil production. So, while you guys bitch about what the Repubs are doing at the state level, the fucking Democrats including our President are fully in bed with Big Oil. You remember Big Oil, don't you? That would be the cabal that's quickly bringing about the extinction of the human race.

Global warming. It's right out in the parking lot!!

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

However, if you have proof of any lies, I'd sure like to see some

we could start with this one right here:

Which is in fact completely untrue - I have never posted a single link from msm, period. Not that I can't, not that I would not, it just hasn't happened. It became something of a habit to avoid high bandwidth websites, I've only recently begun changing that behavior, and have primarily done so with entities I am familiar with from some other medium. And I don't get msm on tv. That's just how it is. And so I've never been to their website, and never posted a link from them. In your view, insisting I have posted links from MSM must appear to be a form of character assassination. It can serve no other purpose.

Here you claim your behavior is

but that obviously isn't what this is, as your previous falsehood clearly demonstrates. This is about perception and spin. It has nothing to do with deliberation of any kind what so ever. IT's all about you, leaping to conclusions on the basis of your opponents statements which are unsupported by those statements themselves.

and here was another lie as demonstrated here and which I called you on earlier, right here

OF course the whole issue is about repelcans - they are the premier leaders in resource exploitation. IT is a plain fact that you insist on denying despite whatever facts are presented. What did you call it? Debate? This is nothing of the kind.

This is you attempting to maintain the spin around certain fundamental myths upon which the kids of OWS are dependent. But that is all they are.

Myths.

I wonder what your handlers will say when they find out that you've taken a stance in support of global warming? Have you done that before?

I only ask out of a mild curiosity regarding the depth and breadth of your cover - but don't worry. I'm already over it.

Have I covered enough of your lies for you? Do you want me to resurrect more of them? I know there is one other I called you on just a couple of hours ago, but by now there are so many it's getting hard to wade back through them.

We could just focus on your name itself.

You cannot help sneering at every single OWS supporter can you. You just cannot help yourself. Perhaps you are merely engaged in a function for profit, playing a role, and hinting at the fact of that role is how you deal with that grand deception - lie if you prefer . . .

But of that I have no proof. I cannot demonstrate with certainty that carl with a K or any other repelican operative for that matter, pays your salary. It is simply my best guess based on the evidence you yourself have left us.

and speaking of leaving us - I kind of wish you would.

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

Seriously? Dude, "MSM" stands for "mainstream media," it's not a website, so your comment about never posting any links from MSM is either a gross mistake on your part, or an outright lie. Three of your links on this thread alone are from mainstream media websites; USAToday, People Magazine's website and CBS news. And I refrain from adding The Guardian although a lot of people would consider them MSM, too. Those first three are the very definition of "mainstream media," for Christ's sake. So my first "lie" isn't a lie at all, although saying "Every link . . ." was probably a stretch.

I'll skip over your link to my comment to GF, because that's just gratuitous bullshit on your part, probably assuming no one will click on it, they'll just be tallying up your links. But it was a clever ploy to try and get me to respond to your comment just below that, since there wasn't a reply button under it. That was your intent, wasn't it? Well played, Z.

This so-called lie has no lies in it. Globalchill got you off on a tangent, which you yourself acknowledge here when you say "nice distraction."

I joined in the convo to point out that there was news of the US arming AQ in Syria in the news last summer. The rest of my comment, referencing your "bribe, corrupt and cajole" comment, was my opinion and debate about a duopoly. And that's the debate between us. You don't believe in it. I do.

So far you're batting zero. This is neither lie nor distraction. Do you think the globalists behind The New Great Game give a rat's ass about the political party of the American's involved in it? Are Repubs involved? Of course, but also Democrats and a host of other political persuasions from other countries. It not about just the US.

So, you didn't call me on shit here. In fact, you start off agreeing with me when you say "sure that's a significant part of the story." Then you add to it, you don't refute it. The rest of your comment is back to the duopoly debate.

The rest of your comment above is just you foaming at the mouth. Essentially character assassination, including some sort of cheap shot at my username. Plus a smattering of innuendo.

Calling something a lie isn't the same as it actually BEING a lie. Which is why I'm done with this convo, because ZD, you seriously swerved.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

Seriously? Dude, "MSM" stands for "mainstream media," it's not a website,

my mistake. I assumed you had simply made a typo, and instead intended to indicate MSN which at a glance seems to focus a bit more on fashion rather than current events.

I really never expected you would lay yourself open to the charge of following in the footsteps of Sara.bou who cannot even name a U.S. news publication and yet reviles the entire lame stream media

Seriously - how would she know if she doesn't even know who they are?

Similarly, why would I post links from sites no one has ever heard of? Generally one expects that at least with main stream media they have something of a reputation to protect. Once an organization like 60 Minutes begins imploding it becomes a story in and of itself.

Posting multiple sources at least ensures that one is accessing that version of a particular story that is in general circulation. Most often inaccuracies in a story stem not so much from what is printed as it is from what is not printed.

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[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

because ZD, you seriously swerved.

and again, thanks for clarifying the title of this thread.

[-] -1 points by globalchill (-24) 6 months ago

"Swerve". I like that gno....the dog DOES occasionally make sense, but I never thought of it as erratic driving until now! LOL

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

Yeah, it's usually a good time, regardless of how it goes. Sometimes it veers towards a total train-wreck but it's fun nonetheless.

[-] 1 points by globalchill (-24) 6 months ago

Funny, I never mentioned AQ....are you saying they are the only radical islamists?

Whatever, if the Reps would get over the fact the Obumbler misadmin lied about Benghazi, they might get to the more important aspects of that tragedy. Stevens brokering arms smuggling via Turkey to anti Assad rebels that are largely composed of FOREIGN(radical Islamic) FIGHTERS.

And just what was the CIA doing at that there Annex with over 20 personnel and what did Petraeus' biographer mean when she said there were 3 Libyans released that night from the annex?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

really? the admin lied? INteresting.

The only LIE I am aware of that was confirmed is the one that got Logan fired. Or is she only temporarily benched? I'm not clear on that point.

In any case, this particular lie was intended to smear the admin, just as you are doing. I'm certain this is yet one more DoD effort to smear the political establishment - not at all unlike their Air Force Photo Op

Those boyz in the Pentagon's basement are very adroit at creating scandal - and as soon as we can get everyone to fully appreciate the depth and breath of their creativity perhaps we can then move along to the execution of their lame asses for treason.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (5805) from St Louis, MO 6 months ago

"Funny, I never mentioned AQ....are you saying they are the only radical islamists?"

Absolutely not, it was Zen that specified AQ, then I kind of got off on a tangent with him about it. Guess I swerved a bit myself that time, heheh.

As far as Benghazi, I haven't read anything about it yet, so I'm not qualified to give an opinion yet. But it does sound like there are a lot of unanswered questions about that whole situation.

[-] -2 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

boners' dogma's gonna fuk ya!

[+] -6 points by primadonya (-85) from Hillsdale, NJ 6 months ago

I don't know WTF you're complaining about.

John Boehner gives the democrats and Obama just about everything they want. If you can't see that, you're blind in one eye and can't see out of the other.

[-] 5 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

spoken like a true tea party repelican.

[+] -4 points by primadonya (-85) from Hillsdale, NJ 6 months ago

Get back on yer thorazine drip, crackhead.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

Hey it's our multiple ID cockroach. How you doin'?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

He/she/it seems to be laboring under the pressure . . . perhaps it is the chill in fla these days . . .

.

edit:

the comment list stretches back over a 9 hour period, and yet this fool posts his nonsense just minutes after I log on . . .

how interesting

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

Remarkable, isn't it? With all the whining and lies they kick out----they sure are a visible train wreck.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

If it weren't for the migration of those snow birds repelicans would not have a chance in Fla. I mean, I haven't examined the demographics, but it does seem like the most reasonable explanation.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

Probably.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

ya know, there were over 40 island nations begging the U.N. for help back in the late 90s. Perhaps we could . . . .

  • convince a segment of those global warming denialists that one of these island nations were ripe for complete exploitation

  • get them to put together a program and sell it to the island nation that permits mass migration of the population

  • while they set up shop on the island under some pretext that they themselves create

such that:

  • in the end they take possession of the island, renounce their U.S. citizenship, presumably for tax purposes, create a tax free haven, and are so busy congratulating themselves over their brilliance and audacity for having stolen such a grand piece of island real estate that they notice neither the fact that there are no serfs to exploit or that the surf will shortly reclaim their entire new world.

.


.

I'm certain that if we can just get them to do what they most naturally want to do, we can get them to off themselves in short order, and thus leave the rest of us alone.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

Here, let's get 'em started. http://www.privateislandsonline.com/

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

that's the idea - kinda. I was actually hoping we could provide them not with a single island though, but rather a whole series of them. There are an awful lot of the fukers after all. They will I am sure need some space if they are to feel comfortable. And they will want some infrastructure they can get for next to nothing to keep them focused on their good fortune, rather than those other issues that might otherwise off set their good fortune should they examine the matter.

A place where they can set up shop as a sovereign state, where it will matter little how often they insist the seas are not rising . . .

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

Awe, Zen the multiple ID jack offs are trying to down vote you.

They will have space-it's their version of competition.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13209) from South Burlington, VT 6 months ago

Ah well. It isn't like the behavior is anything new. fukem

[-] 0 points by WSmith (4187) from Cornelius, OR 6 months ago

How do you make such an obviously and factually erroneous, dishonest, and asinine statement as this and expect even the most depraved 1%-Con Zombies and Trolls to take you seriously?

Just say ANYTHING, RWers!!