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Forum Post: Western-Armed Terror Front Slaughters Syrian Civilians = Western Led Genocide

Posted 2 years ago on Aug. 5, 2012, 6:40 p.m. EST by SenseDuJour (29)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Massacres in Aleppo, Syria

(One day, possibly soon, we North Americans will suffer deeply because our government is this planet's biggest t-e-r-r-o-r-i-s-t.)

"Responsibility to Protect" crumbles as Western-armed terror front slaughters civilians while foreign sponsors attempt to tie hands of Syrian security forces.

By Tony Cartalucci

August 05, 2012 "Information Clearing House" -- For the people of Aleppo, their only hope is Syria's security forces restoring order. In the pockets of Syria's largest city the so-called "Free Syrian Army" (FSA) has dug into, a campaign of systematic detention, torture, and mass murder has been carried out against "enemies of the revolution." Demonized as either "Shabiha" or "government supporters," men have been rounded up, lined up against walls, and gunned down en mass. Others await barbaric "drumhead trials" where FSA warlords deal out arbitrary justice under the guise of "Sharia law."

Image: The Western media is covering - or more accurately, "spinning" - an unfolding sectarian genocide in Syria's largest city Aleppo. In the alleys of seized streets, FSA terrorists are detaining, torturing, and killing anyone suspected of supporting the government. Such suspicions coincidentally run along sectarian divisions. By using the label "Shabiha" for all of FSA's victims, the Western press has given a carte blanche to genocidal sectarian extremists and by doing so, has become complicit in war crimes themselves.

Worst of all, all of this is being reported by the Western media, but carefully downplayed, excused, spun, and otherwise sneaked through news cycles and headlines.

Reuters presented just such a report titled, "Rebels fill Aleppo power vacuum, some disapprove." Judging from the title, one might assume residents in the "liberated" alleys of select Aleppo neighborhoods are simply dissatisfied with late garbage collection and perhaps broken street lights. The title is far from the blood curdling hysteria accompanying Western accounts (and fabrications) of Syrian security operations over the last year and a half.

However, what Reuters actually reports is indeed growing basement-dungeons full of "suspected Shabiha," clear evidence of torture and abuse, as well as a growing number of summary executions and mass murder carried out before cameras and Western media in the streets.

The London Guardian likewise spins and downplays what are overt, ghoulish atrocities committed right on camera for the entire world to see. Russia Today covered one such massacre providing a graphic video depicting several bloodied men lined up against a wall and machine gunned to death, their bodies left in a tattered pile by FSA terrorists. RT leaves no doubt in the reader's mind that what they just witnessed was a war crime.

The Guardian however, begins downplaying the brutal massacre with the headline, "Syria crisis: rebels 'execute shabiha' in Aleppo." Already Guardian plays a role in shaping the potential reader's perception, convicting the massacred victims as "Shabiha." Scrolling down through a list of unverified accusations leveled against the Syrian government, one finds not an objective journalistic report of the massacre, but the justification provided by the FSA themselves, in a quote by Guardian's FSA "contact" that includes the somber warning:

"Regarding the video of the shabiha killed by the FSA, as far as I know these shabiha are from the "Berri" clan in Aleppo. They have a long history of being pro-regime shabiha and they have been involved in a lot of killing in Aleppo.

The regime used to provide them with light weapons and knives and gather them in schools to go and launch their attacks against civilians. Just before they left one of the schools they were caught by the FSA and killed.

In this war in which we left alone to fight such a vicious regime, everything is possible and legitimate and as long as the international community keeps looking at Syria in such carelessness, you will see more of that and even worse."

The Guardian not only excuses what was a massacre of civilians, but sows the ground for excusing war crimes that eclipse even this episode of barbarism. Unfortunately, the Guardian is not alone - this is a pattern that repeats itself throughout the Western media and signifies that as the military campaign winds down, the terror campaign is just beginning. US special interests' promise to "bleed" Syria is manifesting itself before our eyes.

The FSA's claims of everyone they round up, torture, and execute being "Shabiha" carry with them the familiar and horrifying ring of the term "African mercenaries" used to label black Libyans who were targeted by NATO-armed racist sectarian extremists also posing as "revolutionaries." In the end, entire cities were emptied out of blacks (and here) who had for generations called Libya home. Refugee camps were then systematically targeted until Libya's blacks were either dead, imprisoned or exiled beyond their homeland's borders as part of a brutal genocidal campaign covered up by the Western media and downplayed by the West's self-appointed global arbiters of human rights, namely Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch.

While the West still to this day claims Libya's blacks were "pro-Qaddafi," Libya's blacks had no choice but to fight NATO's terrorists of Benghazi, as their complexions and creeds, not political affiliations, had marked them as intolerable and undesirable by NATO's "liberators."

Likewise, a similar campaign of sectarian driven genocide, predicted for years should the US, Israel, Saudi Arabia and others unleash Al Qaeda aligned death squads across the Levant to destabilize their geopolitical enemies, is unfolding, due in part to the complicity of the Western media.

Image: Christians in Syria have been particularly hit hard by what is being described as "ethnic cleansing," not by Syrian security forces, but by NATO-backed death squads under the banner of the "Free Syrian Army." The LA Times has been quietly reporting on the tragedy of Syria's minorities at the hands of the Syrian rebels for months - and indicates that wider genocide will take place, just as it is now in Libya, should Syria's government collapse under foreign pressure.

In 2007, in Hersh's "The Redirection," the following foreshadowing to the NATO and FSA's unfolding genocidal rampage was given: "Robert Baer, a former longtime C.I.A. agent in Lebanon, has been a severe critic of Hezbollah and has warned of its links to Iranian-sponsored terrorism. But now, he told me, “we’ve got Sunni Arabs preparing for cataclysmic conflict, and we will need somebody to protect the Christians in Lebanon. It used to be the French and the United States who would do it, and now it’s going to be Nasrallah and the Shiites" -The Redirection, Seymour Hersh (2007)

Now, demonstratively, we see exactly this feared onslaught manifesting itself in Syria, in particular against Christians as indicated in LA Times' "Church fears 'ethnic cleansing' of Christians in Homs, Syria," and more recently in USA Today's distorted, but still telling, "Christians in Syria live in uneasy alliance with Assad, Alawites." Even the massacre in Houla, seems to echo of this 2007 warning, bearing all the hallmarks of sectarian extremists like Al Qaeda.

With the Western press freely admitting that their "freedom fighting" FSA is lining up "suspected government supporters" and machine gunning them en mass, it seems the massacre the West feared would unfold in Aleppo has come to pass - only it wasn't perpetrated by the Syrian government or its security forces, but rather by NATO and the Gulf State's very own armed and coddled FSA terrorists.

As the West's machinations implode upon themselves and shareholders begin hedging their bets and distancing themselves from possible culpability for egregious crimes against humanity, we must hope that global opposition reaches a critical mass, forcing the West to stand down and allowing the Syrian government to restore order across their nation-state. Until then, we as individuals must identify, boycott, and replace the corporate-financier interests driving this insidious conspiracy against humanity. While swatting mosquitoes seems to be the most immediate remedy at hand, draining the swamp from within which they flourish is the only way to solve this problem permanently.

This article was originally published at LandDestroyer

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32094.htm

80 Comments

80 Comments


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[-] 4 points by Shule (1976) 2 years ago

OWS has been staging protests against just about everything else. War is the single greatest evil the .1% is creating and its impacting not just Syria, the Middle-east, but also everybody else in the rest of the world including us here in the U.S.. Not even to mention the moral woe, these wars are the single greatest driver causing world economic demise. It is time for OWS to actively start protesting against these wars. If OWS doesn't do it we all as individuals need to do it.

[-] 3 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

I agree, but would add that the eventual intention of these wars is world domination. Attacks against countries which provide oil or other resources to the world's other super powers, such as Russia and China, are intended to force those countries to eventually submit to the financial oligarchies austerity policies.

This approach could also lead to a nuclear WW3, which would also please certain factions of the financial oligarchy by reducing world population substantially, leaving the surviving population in stunned, abject submission.

[-] 0 points by SenseDuJour (29) 2 years ago

Very astute of you Arturo !!

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Why thank you sir. And welcome, you appear to be new here.

[-] 1 points by SenseDuJour (29) 2 years ago

No, not new. Just don't work under a regular name any more. This works best for me (when I have time) in getting a broad spectrum of information out without being pigeon holed or biased against. It isn't for everyone, but it works for me. Keep posting Arturo, I like what you have to say!

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Thanks again, I don't get a lot of that. Nice seeing you here.

[-] -1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Really? Really? Why would you pander to this crap. Global conspiracy? Bush was plaid by his own team into war with Iraq. I'm sure it wasn't a big leap for him but have you seen the man lately?

Obama has done a good job managing some pretty heavy shit without going into new wars and spending little to nothing on extra military resources for foreign interventions of any kind.

I find it highly unlikely that one can find boogeymen and still be said to have reasonable ideas.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

So, you have an opinion. You may consider yourself to be the absolute authority, but there is an endless supply of other two bit know-it-alls who believe the exact opposite of you, and who, like yourself, consider anyone who disagrees with them to be an absolute "idiot". Can't say I see a reason to even address your issues.

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

You tend to beat people back with the victim role, quite often. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is just overbearing and authoritarian. So nobody is allowed to disagree with you because it's a personal attack on you. Ok, fine. I won't engage you on anything further then.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

I don't mind if you or anyone disagrees with me, but if your post begins with "this crap", has "heavy shit" in the middle of it, and ends with "boogeymen", then its not being overbearing or authoritarian that I would accuse you of, but simply low class.

In my posts I never begin by making personal attacks on anybody, even if I disagree with their opinion. If people attack me, I do defend myself, but I would never start such a thing. I suggest you consider verbal non-violence as an approach to making your posts.

[-] -1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

ok, I'm a liberal but I'm also a cornfed floridaboy. I didn't grow up in a middle class home with stuffy parents and am not capable of stuffiness or patronizing niceties. Just pretend you're talking to a sailor.

Verbal non-violence? lol, relax. If I disagree, I say it how I feel it. If I didn't respect you, I wouldn't engage with you. I haven't called you any dirty names or said anything repugnant, I'm just gruff and disallowing that is too far left for me.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Its purely up to you if you wish to be civilized or not.

There is a reason, however, why people who handle the relationships between countries are called "diplomats", which is because they are diplomatic. This is what is necessary to resolve critical issues of global importance.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Well said. Stay strong. Keep it real, but keep it verbally non-violent.

We can push a non-violent national policy by 1st being non violent in our discourse. Many have poor arguments and must resort to the schoolyard bullying tactics of the candidate Romney.

Peace, Solidarity

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Thanks a lot. I think its really important to say those things, here at this forum, but also everywhere on the internet. I mean, what do we want to be? A bunch of barbarians?

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

It is useless. We get no where. Mostly when people do it. It is because they want to change the discussion from facts, & substance. It's a usually a distraction. Once it happens in fact, it usually means we win. They are spent. They got nothing of substance. I find telling them that usually gets 'em.

Solidarity. upvote for you

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

You the man!

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I have been completely civilized. Again, you set the bar of niceties so high that one must kiss your ass to be considered civilized. Not interested.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Apparently your standards of civility are quite different than mine. Like I said, I don't expect everybody do agree with me, and I equally don't expect anybody to kiss my ass.

Civility, however, is an important aspect of economic development. In societies where people respect each other, its much easy for the community to grow and develop.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I don't come on this forum or do anything on the web for economic development. I am not a diplomat. I have no illusion about my place in the big picture. I'm here to debate, open minds, spread ideas, with a focus on the working class. What I offer is all I have to offer.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Fair enough, but I think you'll get further with your objectives if you refrain from insulting people. How do you expect anyone to ever agree with you if you call them an idiot?

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I never called you an idiot. People who are interested in collecting ideas, opinions, and with a firm interest in including all 99% must be able and willing to accept different personalities. I talk to people that have acted crazy on here. I just try to keep in mind that these are issues with passionate opinions behind them and passionate people all wanting solutions. If it is to be conducted democratically, open mindedness and tolerance will need to be the order of the day. I'm not going to ask anyone to change their personality to suit my druthers, and I won't give in to such a request.

Tolerance seems to be absent from this forum all together at this point. Lets see if we can change that.

[-] 0 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

So now I'm supposed to be tolerant of profanity also? Just hope you take note that a number of people have expressed their support for my perspective here.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I suppose this is also invalid and must be corrected to the most modest liking, it contains profanity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilg2ceIwNWE

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

So you deny calling Arturo an idiot then you state we "must be able to accept different personalities" Sounds ok. "openmindedness & tolerance should be the order of the day" Also good. .

Tolerance must be our goal. Tolerance of IDEAS. Your personality and passion are all great we should encourage that. But the insults should not be tolerated. Is that what you are arguing? Then say it. We should be allowed to call each other names! State it proudly. Don't couch it in euphemisms. Don't call it tolerance. Calling people names IS part of intolerance.

Peace. Lets be smart enough to agree that name calling by everyone will just become a shouting match and we will get nothing done.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28121) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

RKG is a funny fellow VQ - he does not appear to like people who agree with him about as much as he does not care for people who disagree with him. An odd Duck to say the least.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Have fun voting for more bombs.....

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

So arturo is asking for verbal non-violence and you say it's ok?

It's just "gruff",? just "saying how you feel"? Sounds like good excuses to be disrespectful.

So you are unable to be respectful.? And further you refuse?

Maybe you can focus on the substance of the issue at hand. Perhaps you can allow your opinion to stand on it's own in the marketplace of ideas instead of using (and defending) offensive, disrespectful, personal attacks.

Good luck. Behave?

Oh & didn't you just tell me you supported conservatives?

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

The very Idea of summarizing an entire segment of the population in a negative, derogatory, or exclusionary fashion is counter to not only the liberal mindset, but anti-democratic. Your credibility is gone. This is my last reply to this user name.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Huh? Who did that?

[-] 2 points by SenseDuJour (29) 2 years ago

Very well said Shule !! Just about everyone has access to a piece of cardboard and a marker. This isn't hard folks. They manage to do it in countries where folks have far less than we have. They get together, they rally. They just do it! They don't have meetings to decide what issue they're going to tackle. They have an innate sense of what's wrong and won't be led astray by a co-opted movement that seeks to keep our efforts scattered.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

What "co-opted" movement are you referring to ?!

Are such accusations helpful at all and if so - to who ?!!

Have you evidence at all to back up any such assertions ?!!!

ad iudicium ...

[-] 1 points by Shule (1976) 2 years ago

See my reply to SenseDuJour below.....

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Ditto !!

[-] 1 points by SenseDuJour (29) 2 years ago

It is well known that revolutions, movements, up-risings throughout history are heavily infiltrated with agents/provocateurs. These groups are organized in some fashion of course. We have already seen some of this with OWS. To ignore that this happens is foolhardy. It is wiser for OWS to be aware and on the lookout for these groups. In fact I believe it will be the difference to whether we will be successful or not.

Evidence? They will not be wearing signs saying who they are, but politically aware people know of their presence. Given that Occupy is global in scope we should rightly assume that these groups will be bigger and better organized than any other time in history. To think otherwise, again, would be foolhardy. I mean, what kind of activists/protesters would we be if we didn't take this into account and be ready for them.

I know this is going to upset you, but I really wish we would think a little more for ourselves, instead of relying so much on the organizers of this movement. Perhaps get a little more 'organic'.

I do, at times, feel we are led in too many directions with smaller issues. In fact we are 'swimming' in issues, and it is far easier for the establishment to ignore us this way. The movement becomes "diluted". Do you remember early on, in the MSM, when one reporter after the next would go on air shrugging their shoulders, feigning incredulity because "they just don't seem to know what they want."

I think we would garner far more support from the masses if we focused on one or two major points like "End The Fed", or "Tax The Fed", or "Remove The .01% From Power", or "No Global Government", or "Keep Our Sovereignty", or "Lets Take Back Our Freedoms".

Once we have secured our freedoms and our sovereignty, we can revisit the issues of education, jobs, infrastructure, unions, etc, etc, They're endless at this point, and very important, but they won't matter one wit, if a global elite oligarchy take our sovereignty and freedoms. On the scale of things, our basic freedoms rank higher than teachers' wages or healthcare, no?

We have to think bigger, and be able to see through the "massive subterfuge" they will try to lay in front of us in the way of 'speed bumps' to slow down our ability to realize the "BIG ISSUE", which in my mind is stopping the global elites from taking our freedoms.

Solidarity is hugely important, but I don't think we do ourselves any good with "blind" solidarity.

This forum is massively important for spreading the kind of information you help to educate with. I've used it for the same purpose myself. Your work here is top notch quality, no question.

I wish, there was a separate portion of the website that focused only on protesting en masse for getting rid of the global elite from power, so that we could start rebuilding on the issues that get discussed here day in and day out.

Iceland is the perfect example. They didn't talk about paying their teachers more or discuss national holidays. They kicked the f#cking bankster global elites OUT. That's why they have been so successful so quickly. They FOCUSED on the root issue. And so should we!!

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Subjective opinion presented as objective fact - is a phenomenon we are all have to endure and perhaps the victims of it are also guilty of perpetrating it. Conjecture based on blanket statements ; idiosyncratic readings of history & probabilistic, post factum analysis of past events has its uses but what happens in the future is not necessarily a function of the present let alone the past. Correctly identifying trends and correlations has its place but the future remains unknown and is therefore - ours to shape IF enough of us can get our collective shit together ; come together & organise collectively for the changes we desire.

Of course we can and should think for ourselves but unless we come together to establish common ground & agree collective positions, well then we may as well all piss into the wind. OWS is about as 'organic' as any US movement has been, imho and who exactly is "relying" on the organizers ? What "organizers" ?! One of the real strengths of 'Occupy' lies in its amorphous and nebulous nature I feel.

You say that we are "led in too many directions with smaller issues"- having yourself posted the above excellent article about 'The Syrian Situation'. So did YOU focus on : "-"End The Fed", or "Tax The Fed", or "Remove The .01% From Power", or "No Global Government", or "Keep Our Sovereignty", or "Lets Take Back Our Freedoms"-" -- with this 'forum-post' ?! Is Syria really about any of these listed issues ?!

We here on this forum are just one small part of OWS & consider - that 'Occupy Is A State of Mind' & that the machinations of US Empire & international events are connected to the The Permanent WAR Economy of The U$A & thus to the plight of The US and Global 99%. There are many dots & they are connected but we need to see these connections. I commented on matters related to Syria for the first time on this thread, having previously kept my own counsel on the matter. Now I regret having done so !

Yes, absolutely Iceland shows the way and yes, there are Core Issues but consider this : "The Global Elites" have already "taken our freedoms" ! I am NOT so naive as to think of myself as 'free' when I step outside my front door, as The Only place where I truly consider myself 'free' - is within my own mind !!

I find myself exhausted by this answer and this thread & comments like yours make me really question (temporarily) as to what it is I'm doing here. What's the point of 'education' if we are all too apathetic to get 'agitated' and what's they point of getting 'agitated' IF we fail to get 'organised' ? How are we to get organised IF we are all such free thinking, 'rugged individuals' - that we refuse to join up with others ?!!!

facta non verba ...

[-] 1 points by SenseDuJour (29) 2 years ago

This is exactly what you're supposed to be doing! So don't ever question what you're doing here! Nor should you regret posting on Syria.

Our world is at a critical juncture, and yes, Syria absolutely IS about "Removing the .01% From Power". The Power Elite are absolutely at the helm of this slaughterous invasion. One only has to keep an eye on the alternative media (as I know you do) to understand this.

I'm going to be as candid as I can under the circumstances, because I respect what you do here. But, if you are "exhausted by this post", it is because I have struck a cord.

Yes, your post here is very different from your usual educational compilations. I understand that education runs deep and is generational for you. I love education too. I'm not saying switch from the sharing of education. I don't know what it is that you're disagreeing with. It seems to me that we're in 'violent agreement' on most points.

All I'm saying is lets collectively decide what's most important to us all and protest actively on that one point. There are many issues in this forum that most of us agree on, with varying ways on how to solve them, but if we lined up 1,000,000 people and asked them out of 20 or so items from education, to employment, to unions, to getting money out of politics, to the military industrial complex, all the way up to freedom/sovereignty by getting rid of our oligarch controllers...I think freedom would win by an overwhelming consensus. Don't get me wrong! All the other issues need doing too. Just AFTER we have 'secured' our FREEDOM. If the forum had a portion of the home page dedicated to voting for what WE want to come together on as the most important issue it would do WONDERS for this movement. We could have "morphed" a long time ago. The masses would not have been so misled by the MSM if a "vehicle of consensus" had been available to us. We can have BOTH, discussing and information sharing of social issues, AND collective consensus voting.

How can you be okay with the fact that the global elites "have already taken our freedoms"?! (which of course is a true statement). They are more than well on their way! You're speaking figurativley of course when you say the only freedom you have is in your own mind, but it won't be long before that becomes very literal. What are you going to do when Big Pharma decides on nerve damaging forced innoculations, you can only have one child, you can't have healthcare because according to 'them' your carbon footprint is too excessive, or you and/or your son or daughter HAS to go to war under the bullshit heading of 'freedom and democracy' when in reality you may get your face blown off protecting oil/drug/weapons cartels? Do you know how much global genocide they're responsible for? Words fail to come up with one descriptive enough to explain the Ruling Global Elite's particular brand of blight on humanity. Evil doesn't even come close.

I would definitely agree with you that we have to organize in order for anything to get done. I shouldn't have used the term organic. I just wish the whole thing was much more transparent. Which of course is difficult.

"Subjective opinion presented as objective fact" -Not really. Just deductive reasoning.

Co-opting/infiltration happens every day of the week. Countries are infiltrated, corporations are infiltrated, intelligence organizations are infiltrated....militaries, militias, organized crime factions, religious orders, organized secret societies, governments, unions, are all infiltrated. Hell, schoolyard cliques get infiltrated.

Do you honestly think, for a minute, that we(occupy) are so special and unique that we are going to be left alone and be given carte blanche as we topple the banking system or our government?? That's just silly. That would be a historical first! To not take into account the historic behavior by the government and the oligarchs would not only be foolhardy, but dangerous. I know you have heard the old saying "Know your history, for those who do not, are doomed to repeat it"

Yep, thank goodness our future still falls into the unknown category...."therefore - ours to shape IF enough of us can get our collective shit together ; come together & organise collectively for the changes we desire". I couldn't agree more. The best way to ensure our future turns out the way we want it to, is to BE AWARE of infiltration and being led astray....and of course there are organizers. There were meetings after meetings down at street level. Question; If you were the government or globalist trying to co-opt this movement, wouldn't you send agents to make a bee-line for the organizers to influence them...or become one? I'd just like to stay a step ahead of them if we can.

I'm not the only one thinking along these lines. I think our 'collective conscious' has come to understand just how grave the situation really is in our world . For the first time, just today on the home page, by "the organizers", is this;

The 1% is controlling our fates; we are drowning in loans, student debt, fraudulent mortgages. You are not a loan. Democracy is sold to the highest bidder, destroying our political process, our communities and our environment. Join a mass mobilization of the 99%. Stand and be counted. Let’s occupy our future, together.

This is definitely a step in the right direction. BUT...have you noticed that it always stops just short of the real criminals. All that's required is to follow the money. I mean, even the most unseasoned newbie investigator would tell you to "follow the money". The buck always stops at "well its ABC Corporation". Well, you know what? All these banks and corporations have OWNERS. Why are we thwarted from going to the top of the pyramid, when any shmoe can see the obvious? Why are the owners not held responsible? Their patsies are left holding the bag while the 'untouchable oligarchs' send as many of our humanity as possible to get ripped to shreds in "invasional wars", pilfer the last of the people's money, and flee to their out of country estate hideouts.

I ask a lot of questions. I piss people off. I ask things like;

Why have we here at Occupy not been asked, whether by paper ballot at street level, or social media questionnaire, to list in order of importance, what our most pressing concerns are?

How hard could it be to have a tiny little portion on the website to keep a tally of the "collective" consensus of the issues? To....oh, I don't know....see where the hell we are going with the movement.

I wonder what would happen if we on this forum for instance, collectively agreed and asked admin to put a video on the front page showing the names of the oligarchs' of the criminal organizations/banks, along with a protest date and place. Do you think they would do it for us?

I'll stop there...this is way too long already, and I don't want to tick you off any further.

The fact is, we're both correct Shadz. What I'm saying is...Use the forum to our benefit...but understand it. Strengths AND its potential pitfalls. If we can't talk about where the possible weaknesses are...how do we get stronger, and thus, win against these parasitical oligarchs? Saying this doesn't make us lose morale, it keeps us thinking on our feet.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I agree with much of the above comment but have a few reservations and misgivings with some points. However, I do not have the time, energy or headspace to engage you with the kind and length of reply that your comment probably deserves, so I am going to limit myself here to appending the following :

From the last link : "Sometimes it seems as if U.S. ruling interests perpetrate crimes and deceptions of all sorts with a frequency greater than we can document and expose. So if I don’t write or speak about one or another issue, keep in mind, it may be because I am occupied with other things, or I simply have neither the energy nor the resources. Sometimes too, I think, it is because I get too heavy of heart."

On a similarly personal note re. "How can you be okay with the fact that the global elites 'have already taken our freedoms'?!" --- I have no idea how anyone who may purport to know me (as you imply) would or could conclude that I am "okay" with Anything "that the global elites" (Translation = 'Parasites') do, so I'm left rather cold and confused by that. Finally re. OWS, "infiltration & co-option", of course there are agents, informers & subverters - that's the usual playbook but we must never be paralysed by that.

I have things to say in strong agreement with your comment and things at some variance and I may try to muster the energy to reply at longer length later but I can't promise you anything.

concordia discors ...

[-] 1 points by SenseDuJour (29) 2 years ago

Glad to see you back Shadz.

Your response is plenty informative and heartfelt. No more is necessary. OWS evokes strong and passionate thoughts. It is easy to hit a sensitive nerve when one feels that someone is questioning the integrity of the movement.

We agree, as I thought, on the important points.

I'm sure the topic of refining and defining what the most critical issue is, that we can collectively stand behind, and use it together as we surge ever towards our oppressors, will be discussed in the days and weeks ahead on this forum.

I can relate to being occupied with other things. I've spent a week back here, but I have to get back to work and spend a few days doing other things. I've enjoyed our debate, but you need to get back to doing what you do best, which is educating...and rightfully so.

I wonder if there is anything on ICH about how revolutions collectively cut off the power so as to topple the oligarchs? L

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

George Galloway : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32173.htm .

A must watch for anyone that has yet to understand the geopolitical forces at play in the Syria crisis.

fiat lux...

[-] 3 points by SenseDuJour (29) 2 years ago

I am awestruck by George Galloway. What I have come away with from my 'awakening' and consequently OWS, is just how many truly intelligent people there are out there....both well known and regular folk, and how politically engaged regular folk are. Its awesome!

Thanks for the introduction to this brave man. His brutal truth is a testament to humanity's deep desire to live a peaceful life through transparency.

So, I'll call your 'George Galloway'....and raise you a 'Phyllis Bennis'...

"Syrian Uprising Morphs Into Regional and Global Wars"

A divided, balkanized Syria looms as a dangerous possibility as even UN Secretary-General Ban ki-Moon acknowledges the conflict has become a proxy war between world powers.

By Phyllis Bennis

August 15, 2012 "Information Clearing House" The news from Syria is really bad these days. And bad stuff in Syria doesn’t stay in Syria – though Syrian civilians are paying by far the biggest price. With outside governments calling the shots in a civil war, arming both sides, and motivated less by concern for civilians than by their own narrow national interests, we’ve got serious trouble.

And right now unfortunately, that outside super-power game remains dominant. Syria has become the crucible for a number of separate wars, battles for power and influence, for regional resources and access, for strategic location and military expansion. These wars pit regional contenders of the Arab Gulf states and Turkey against Syria and Iran. They set the terms of the rising sectarian battle between Sunni-dominated Saudi Arabia and Qatar vs. Shi’a power in Syria, Iraq and Iran. They shape the Middle East competition between the U.S. and Russia for global military/strategic power. And crucially, of course, Syria is a central component of the U.S., Israeli and western campaign against Iran.

Even UN Secretary-General Ban ki-Moon, who usually reflects Washington’s positions, acknowledged that the Syrian conflict has become a “proxy war.” He called on the major powers to overcome their rivalries to figure out how to stop the violence.

Full article....

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32192.htm

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Intervention is now Driving Syria's Descent into Darkness" :

"Western and Gulf regime support for rebel fighters isn't bringing freedom to Syrians but escalating sectarian conflict and war",

By Seumas Milne.

fiat lux et fiat pax ...

[-] 2 points by Shule (1976) 2 years ago

100% agree.

One only need look at how OWS is operating to see the evidence its being co-opted. So many diversionary issues. Sometimes I think OWS is like one of those protest pens.

This all is not to say, we cannot make use of OWS. We just need to realize what it is, what its not, and act accordingly.

[-] 3 points by kaiserw (211) 2 years ago

For sure, blowback is coming... Nemesis is coming and she's pissed!

"Failing such reform [of Congress], Nemesis, the goddess of retribution and vengeance, the punisher of pride and hubris, waits impatiently for her meeting with us" - Chalmers Johnson

To think, up until 1977 our nuclear launch codes was a string of all "zeros", and all the launch controllers knew it. Any one of several thousand people could have started WWIII. I don't know how much longer we're going to be able to have such good luck.

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (4650) 2 years ago

Thank you for forum post.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

That's what this gov does. Create chaos, install our people in the gov, and then exploit resources.

Sudan just got on board after bombs dropping all over. Yemen, still in the works. Afghan, Iraq and Libya already conquered. Pakistan, I dont think they have too much to offer except for containing them due to nuclear power.

Anyone who backs this government is a disgrace to the country, and a true testament to our educational/propaganda system.

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[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

An utterly shocking situation is unfolding in Syria, where there is an unholy alliance of Saudi Arabia ; Qatar & other Gulf States ; The USA ; The UK ; France ; Turkey ; Israel & Sunni Jihadis - each engaged for their own reasons in The Syrian Civil War & terrible things are occurring on a daily basis. The seeds of a regional conflagration are being sown as the break up of Syria is in the offing. For more information :

fiat lux ; fiat pax ; fiat justitia ...

[-] 5 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

On top of everything else the fake revolutionaries are largely Al Queda fighters, our (U.S./NATO's) private terrorist army. Think about the implications of that.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

You mention all the supporters of one side (the side without the tanks, & jets).

Whatabout the supporters of the Syrian Govt. They use tanks and jets. Are they innocent.

Do we support the Assad regime.? Are they good? What should we do.?

End the drone bombings!

Economic fairness for the 99%

[-] 1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Our PTB are not any more concerned about the well being of Syrians than they were about Iraqis or are about Shi'ites in Bahrain where the US fifth fleet docks and where majority Shi'ites are oppressed. There is definitely stuff going on here that's not out in the open. Saudi Arabia and friends are not arming any group that would bring an actual democracy (not a fake one like here) to their neighborhood.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Things as always are preyty screwed up their. And of course we are at the center. certainly our unquenchable need for oil is a big part of the problem.

Best thing we can do, besides agitating for end to war/drone bombing is to stop burning fossil fuels and getting greentech in widespread use now!

It's the only way.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

The Syrian Governing Regime is indeed using "tanks & jets". That is as unconscionable as their unwillingness / inability to share and transfer power in Syria.

Be under no illusion whatsoever though - The Foreign Interference has Nothing Whatsoever to do with solidarity and affiliation for the Syrian people and Everything to do with regional power politics.

We in The West are given our opinions by the MSM/State Media. The Syrian despotism does not suit American geo-political interests but we are utterly silent (Mainly Because We Do Not Know) about the extreme repressive violence going on in Bahrain & around Qatif in Eastern Saudi Arabia. Anything to do with being US allies and having massive US Military Bases there d'you think ?

I really think that you and interested readers will gain by listening to a couple of people who have some idea about Syria, which is rapidly becoming another Libya - itself a giant & violent toilet at the moment :

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Thanks.

The geopolitical elements certainly are reminiscent of the old ussr/usa game of chess/dominoes. We never really challenged the Russians in Syria though. Seems like things have changed greatly.

Certainly the desire to get control of every drop of oil on Earth is at the center of this effort. To that I say.

END the Oil wars! Green tech NOW!.

I guess that is at the center of the Syrian Govt supporters as well? Do we care about that?. Is that ok?

And we do not support the Syrian governments slaughter of civilians now nor the massacres of the previous Assad right?

I heard another in a long line of govt officials/army officers have defected today. Is that meaningful? Is that a measure?

I think we do not know enough to state much except. END THE OIL WARS! Which I submit to all combatants.

I suppose I should also say that to whatever extent there are freedom fighters struggling against dictators ,around the world I say we should support them (even amongst our allies (like egypt)). I gather you say the people struggling against a dictator ain't happening in Syria. The Syrian people might disagree but perhaps you know better.

Most importantly;

END THE OIL WARS!

END THE DRONE ATTACKS!

Economic fairness for the 99%. Public financing of campaigns!

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I agree with much of what you've just said with the exception of : "I gather you say the people struggling against a dictator ain't happening in Syria." & I do Not know how you've succeeded in 'gathering' that !!!

Syria has relatively little oil and gas (in comparison to other Arab countries) but it looks like the only things that are actually going to be liberated in Syria are the oil and gas pipelines !!

The idea of Syria as a regional oil transit hub is nothing new, thanks to its strategic situation between Europe and major hydro-carbon producing areas in the Persian Gulf and Caspian Sea. There is already one major transnational gas pipeline passing through Syria - the Arab Gas Pipeline (AGP) from Egypt to the Lebanese port of Tripoli. There is also the old IPC line from Iraq, which has been off-line since the US 'WMD War' and invasion of that country in 2003.

In 2009, recognizing that the heady days of Syrian oil production in the 1980s were long gone and that the sector’s future lay in transit, The Regime announced a ‘four seas strategy’ aimed at transforming the country into a regional hub for oil transportation between the Persian Gulf and the Black, Caspian and Mediterranean seas. Syria began taking steps to realize the country’s transit-center potential and bring the four seas strategy closer to reality.

In late 2010, the government signed a memorandum of understanding with Iraq for the construction of two oil and one gas pipeline to carry gas and oil from Iraq’s Akkas and Kirkuk fields, respectively, to the Syrian port of Banias on the Mediterranean Sea. In July 2011 Iranian officials announced a $10 billion gas pipeline deal between Syria, Iraq and Iran that would transport gas from Iran’s South Pars gas field, the world’s biggest, through Iraq to Syria. Also planned was an extension of the AGP from Aleppo, in Syria, to the southern Turkish city of Kilis that could later link to the proposed Nabucco pipeline linking Turkey to Europe, if that pipeline ever materializes.

I agree with : End Oil Wars ; End Drone Attacks ; Economic Fairness for The Global 99% & with Public Financing of Political Campaigns. I am a zealot for Democracy Everywhere. Solidarity to the Syrian 99% - the vast majority of whom probably don't want their country destroyed by a dubious 'war for peace' !!!

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

So oil is at the center of this effort. (transport thereof..)

Aren't there world powers (Russia, China,Iran) who are affected, and who are militarily involved? Some of your facts certainly indicate that they might be.

We should criticize those powers as well.

And is there no element of people struggling against a dictator?. Clearly the massive use of heavy artillery against a low armed group should be criticized.

Assad and his supporters efforts are also related to control of every last drop of oil.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

All those who support Autocracy & Oligarchy against Democracy are at fault. The Syrian Baathist Regime is at fault but Western support for 'the rebels' is specious, hypocritical and really about Oil Pipelines and Outflanking Iran. Again, I'd request that you please spend a few minutes by watching :

fiat lux ; fiat pax ; fiat justitia ...

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Thank you again.

The video (from earlier) confirms much of what I already suspected. The US has served the MIC, and the Fossil fuel plutocrats where oil is concerned forever..

Libya, now Syria are definitely examples. I believe this occurs as a result of the huge power these groups hold. And they are not giving up power easily. (no one ever does)

I think further they (thru repubs) are pressuring us (Dems/Pres Obama) to invade, Syria, yes but especially Iran. I believe the most resistence against the MIC, fossil fuel plutos & right wingers this Pres has managed to muster is not to invade, and instead use proxy agents (Saudi Arabia, Syrian "rebels")

I think also that the difference between this pres and a Repub IS that minimal resistence and the approach/use of military. I believe the repubs would have invaded already.

This may be of little consolation. But I prefer not waging the type of war we did in Iraq & Afghan. I see this as real progress. Don't laugh, please don't yell at me.

The other related policy that I think this Pres is far and away better than Repubs at, is the effort to implement real green tech. This goes directly to eliminating the need for oil wars. It will minimize the power that MIC, and of course fossil fuel corps have. They are against these efforts, Repubs are against these efforts. Dems and Pres Obama are pushing them despite repub obstruction.

These green tech policies will minimize the oil wars.

Of course my personal focus is on the economic inequity. But I am against these continueing (however much less) Oil military adventures.

Peace

[-] 0 points by timirninja (263) 2 years ago

wrong submission shadz66! lets play chess a little. Nobody care about Syrian shit hole and their regime. they used to live well before destruction. There are too many bad guys and objectionable governments out there. take american ally Bahrain for instance. recently there been mass violent protest and people were killed. Nobody mention this anywhere. So Syria. where those rebels comes from, im not asking who they are and where they has been trained. From Israel side (brits) from Turkey side (muslims). Ok, enough talking. What west looking for in Syria? regime change, - good boys. But, anyone know why? ok. we need to replace Iranian ally and use that land to place our military base and to use oil supply to fight with Iran. some experts are tend to believe Iran and their army are strong enemy, plus China and Russia starts twiting recent time. have fun

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Wrong ?! How so ?!! Perhaps you should read the rest of my comments on this thread before trying to 'check-mate' me so readily !!!

errare humanum est ...

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[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

You link to a 'forum-post' where you say : "I get bashing American Imperialism - that's a no brainer. But this level of hypocrisy isn't simply unacceptable - It's outrageous. So what's Noam Say ? ... You people should get a clue - try using both hands" . Therefore, I can only assume therefore that that is along the lines of what you meant to say here. Further, you link to this thread with your comment :

  • "Look at all the pro Syrian posts - here's one of the worst - 'Western-Armed Terror Front Slaughters Syrian Civilians = Western Led Genocide 35 comments 1 day ago by NONSenseDuJour (12) last comment 1 minute ago - It's complete bullshit."

What "pro-Syrian posts" ?! It is perfectly possible to be against the predations and machinations of US Empire (of which you have a tendency to apologise & justify, if our previous differences re. the 'prospect of War On Iran' are anything to go off) AND to be simultaneously be against Syrian Despotism and also to question the real nature, support for and motivation of 'The Rebels'. It is possible to have more than one thought at a time and for them not to be mutually exclusive ! Finally, I resent association with 'Pro Syrian' and pro-regime and I kind of don't appreciate being 'rabbit punched' like that.

fiat lux ...

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[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I was unaware of any "ban", just going off what I read & I have little formal education past 18 and I don't have a degree. You may have a point in that I saw and answered to what I chose to imagine that you had said but you were as short & cryptic before as you you are long & slightly confusing to my eyes here. I read what you've written above and see that I may have acted / written in haste and that I may have misunderstood you. I acted with a degree of ignorance & prejudice it seems and thus I apologise. Yiddish ? Yep, a little & sorry for acting like a schlemiel & a nudnik !!

pax ...

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

PS : I replied to your comment in good faith when it just ended with & at "do you know what Yiddish is ?" - since when you have edited and written more - some of which is plainly twaddle and seems like it's again with the rabbit punch - whilst you thought that I wasn't looking !

You need to stop calling 'SenseDuJour' things like "repelican operative" as it is NOT "plain & simple" at all ! Also, you have a hectoring style and are not an easy interlocutor to engage with. What I "do not understand" is why I bothered . Silly me !!! My bad !! Lesson learned !

temet nosce ...

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[-] 0 points by timirninja (263) 2 years ago

human engendering? i remember that. You gave me such a hard task to find this video Noam Chomsky’s interview with Al-Jazeera where he sits next to the window in green sweater. i couldnt find such video in english, like it never been exist =) Yesterday i couldnt find some music video The Prodigy feat. Cypress Hill - Throw Your Molotov Bitch In The Air (Mashup). i even ask somebody oversea to check on this video. no results. same thing - banned all over the World http://www.yomusic.de/prodigy/%2Bvideo/eNozsbKytLcGAASsAVw

[-] -1 points by SenseDuJour (29) 2 years ago

Thank you dear Shadz. For once again bringing your enlightened perspective, to this most critical of subjects.

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

That was a bit uncalled for ! The comment was clearly directed directly to me & tho' a bit embarrassing as pedestals are only good for falling off - I'm not sure I appreciate you abusing folk !! In fact - I'm sure that I don't & I'd be grateful if you'd desist !!!

pax et lux ; nunc et semper ...

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[-] -3 points by bearclaw (-152) 2 years ago

The US should not even get involved with Syria or any other diaper heads over there. The only decent ones is Israel and the rest is all trash

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Thanx for your Racist BS - it was duely noted !

temet nosce ...

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

cows are not greater than humans

I don't care if they have 7 stomachs and can digest grass

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

the US should stop bombing Yemen and Pakistan

[-] -2 points by bearclaw (-152) 2 years ago

Correct and they should not even be involved with the Middle East at all. Look at all the wars that the US has been involved with over the years and how many did they win?? Zero

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

war is not winnable

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Poor form!

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[-] 0 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Hear, hear.

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[-] -1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

That piece was total propaganda. Currently, Christians are in the mix like all the other civilians. Some are rebels, some have been killed by Ass-od and some have been accused and killed by the rebels. It's war. War sucks. The rest of the story was full of what ifs, half information points, and other missing details. Corroboration evidence was not provided other than a link and narrative but the articles linked to did not back the narrative they were linked under.

Tony Cartalucci is also anti-American and has much rhetoric to show for it.

SYRIA'S UNPRECEDENTED UNREST