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Forum Post: We take advantage of electoral processes

Posted 3 years ago on Oct. 26, 2011, 6:04 p.m. EST by ThomasJefferson (10)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Governments are corrupt collusion with the global financial system, reason why to purify it we must begin to attack on the vulnerable position of the governors who depend on the next election results. We could then make changes to the governments and begin to solve the current economic, social and environmental problematic.

Therefore we propose the public demand of an Initiative of Law to definitely overcome the recurrent economic crises, with titles like "Suppression of wages to popularly elected governors from the elections of November 6, 2012."

Argumentation:

The societies naturally structure in communities of diverse sorts and levels, hence the natural and ancient economy, and less vulnerable to any contingency as a social or environmental disaster is the communitarian economy, in which everyone works for the good of their communities.

While the capitalist economy emerged historically as a complement to streamline the communitarian economic system generalized to various communities, but most economists still assume that the capitalist economy arose to replace the communitarian economy, as the only option for social development.

While both economies have coexisted within a certain balance, the capitalist economy has nourished of the communitarian economy developed rapidly, but causing to the long term that the communitarian economy is reduced to minimal levels, from which capitalism has begun to fall in recurrent crises, untying every time majors barbarism levels.

And to finally overcome this recurring process, requires widespread reactivate the communitarian economy, and therefore at the level of the main leaders of each nation: its governors; that is to say, governments are required to turn them from lucrative to honorary, that popularly elected governors stop receiving wages.

Still would enough candidates to govern, those who have resolved their economy by owning companies or other income, and those that can be communitarian supported by their followers if not have any income.

Which will be the most important in the construction of the new communitarian paradigm, that immediately adjust government finances to cause a substantial reduction in the salaries and expenses of top officials that as all must be monitored by a transparency system of government and civil society.

This will be able to substantially lower levels of governmental corruption and consumerism of the governing class, which from its national leadership will result in an overall decline of consumerism (main cause of environmental depredation) and organized crime.

Which could may rejoin society through new mixed economy (capitalist and communitarian) that government and civil society would be implemented with the participation of large numbers of unemployed that currently exist, that would allow them, although of austere way, to solve their family economy satisfactorily, like the governors who require communitarian support.

The power of capital in the hands of parasites is what has the world as it is, so there is no choice to put the capital under the human will, the democracy, contrary to what is now.

There will not lack reasons for a political party to express in favor of our demand for pretending to gain votes when already there are many people who support our proposal, which may cause the other party do the same for trying to keep those votes and Congress will obliged to formulate our initiative of law and to decree its entrance in effect. Clear that meanwhile ours manifestations will have had to create a social movement that assures this.

When our governors are honorary not only are not going to suffer deficiencies but they will be much more powerful as our representatives, stop being puppets of capital. Just as today's society and entrepreneurs try to imitate their corrupt behavior, later will try to imitate their worth, honesty and altruism, because the governors have always been and will be the main leaders of each nation.

The only solution is World Revolution!

15 Comments

15 Comments


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[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Diversion Troll . . . paragraph three of this post alone should reveal that these are all simply words, with no underlying meaning.

[-] 1 points by ThomasJefferson (10) 2 years ago

Everyone knows what the third paragraph says, but nobody wants to apply it to end the recurring economic crises.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

The third paragraph, like the rest of this Orwellian Newspeak, is pure obfuscation, plain and simple. You either have spent way too many years in academia, and have learned how to not communicate while making a lot of pretentious sounding noise, or, more likely, this blather was generated by a computer program

[-] 1 points by ThomasJefferson (10) 2 years ago

Hi Gypsy King,

I see you very scandalized and it is not for less, because my proposal is very pretentious indeed, and tries nothing less than to contradict to the history, in which always to govern has been synonymous to exploit and benefit itself at the expense of harm to others.

However it is not mere personal demand to propose that henceforth govern must be synonymous of generosity and honesty, not mere moralizing, is the need for a globalized world of limited resources, with a fragile ecological balance threatened by climate change that civil society should try to counter to its favor instead of to allow increase to its detriment.

The current state of representative democracy and civil society indignation, manifested in this mobilization to Occupy Wall Street, making viable the evolution to a real democracy, composed by a valid representative democracy and an effective participatory democracy.

Establishing that the governors are no longer about employees who seek to satisfy their personal ambitions, to become honorariums, moved by their will to direct by the correct way to their fellow citizens.

But there are only specific times in which it is possible to give this quantum jump: The electoral processes, in which legislators may be forced to promulgate this demand so that their political parties can count with the citizen votes.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 3 years ago

I'd want my representative to be given enough money money to do his job without worrying about its lively hood

[-] 1 points by ThomasJefferson (10) 3 years ago

That's the best way to guarantee that you'll cheat, simulating to work full time at your service, when a well-planned government or parliamentary work requires less than half time.

And never lack who are well trained and willing to have the honor of carrying the post without a fee that does not really need. But it is a matter of culture, which civil society decides to create a new civility.

That allows it organize to face threats such as natural resource depletion and climate change. Meanwhile it will not have surpassed the age of infancy, trying to continue sucking the teat of the budget that is not inexhaustible.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

point of fact. we have never had a capitalist system. a genuine capitalist system to start has no taxes, the government prints the money. A genuine capitalist system is not rigged to give the rich everything at the expense of the middle class and poor. a genuine capitalist system does not feature a fed bank and the IRS. What we have is actually corporate oligarchy, a hival form of feudalism.

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page

http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ

http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw

http://www.opensecrets.org/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/

[-] 1 points by ThomasJefferson (10) 3 years ago

Hello Gawd,

I see you handle the ideal model of capitalism according to economists, who assume that this is not possible to bring to reality by the intrinsic nature of man to abuse or take advantage of others, forming oligarchies like which currently exist.

Soon then we must privies the control of this human nature, although thanks which have been able to create civilizations and continue their development, is also often fall into a form of parasitism, maintaining a criminal, unnecessary and counterproductive exploitation of the masses.

The problem with capitalism is given in order to limit the accumulation of capital by some actors who seeking thereby increasing their power and abuse of the majority, without any responsibility for the welfare of these, can be solved more easily if capitalism is limited to be an auxiliary instrument of the original and natural communitarian economy.

Thus the value of capital always remains below the value of the common good.

I agree with what you write in http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99% 25_POLITICAL_PARTY

-The only way to achieve meaningful representation and to make laws which benefit the 99 percent instead of the one percent is to remove all of the democrats and all of the republicans from office.

The question is how to plan this?

Our proposal gives us a formula:

If civil society manages to pressure on Congress for remove salaries of elected governors from November 6, 2012, and with citizen participation that this would lead to monitor watching the governors do not engage in corrupt acts for money.

Then the governmental positions would be made less easy to maintain their current power oligarchies, and more easily these positions could be occupied by real citizen representatives, who are more interested in their welfare than to receive a cash income.

Even this proposal could be used as part of the political platform of a new party, and if it fails to constitute, however the authentic citizens representatives could become through citizen candidacies or from the existing political parties, as in forward civil society put pressure on not serve oligarchic interests.

Greetings.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

hi. I will again repeat that i think its fallacious to attack or defend capitalism, which is a system that has never existed. Capitalism would be an improvement from corporate oligarchy, to be certain, and is actually a system which the oligarchs dread, because it empowers the government to end the caste system.

Feudalism is the actual formal political science term for any form of government that relies upon taxes; taxation really is one of the core bedrock principles upon which feudalism exists; as the feudal lords exist by collecting taxes. Our forefathers saw this and thus sought to end all taxation forever by firstly having the congress print the money and secondly charging tarriffs on imported goods.

The most effective way to get real democracy is to act as if it already exists and as the 99 percent dig into real work over how to solve the problems. This is quite a bit contrary to the impulse to go out and protest, a lot less dramatic with ones head on google and a textbook or ten.

How to plan it at first is affinity groups. every single smaller issue is one percent of the population we can bring on board as soon as we built that bridge.

[-] 1 points by ThomasJefferson (10) 2 years ago

Hello again, For me is very important what you indicate in favor of capitalism, and not least what I have said against it, but we agree here that it isn't the topic of discussion.

However, we can’t directly disintegrate the existing oligarchies, what we can do is change the system that maintains them, basically answering the current questions: How does Wall Street Occupy movement intend to make that global financial system becomes of usurer in servant of civil society? How does it intend to achieve a real democracy? How imagines the beginning of World Revolution? What expects that civil society will makes in the short term to undertake it? To debug the tyrannical global financial system we must begin with its principal servants and accomplices: the governors and political parties; who are vulnerable during the elections and they can see itself forced to satisfy the citizen demands to have enough votes to hold their governmental position in ranks. Still we are in time for demanding an Initiative of Law to definitely overcome the recurrent economic crises and their every time bigger corresponding levels of barbarism:

“Suppression of wages to popularly elected governors since the 2012 elections” If we achieve this goal will still be enough candidates to govern, those who have resolved their economy by owning companies or other income, and those that can be communitarianly supported by their followers. But it will be a filter that will stop those who care more about getting a good income than to solve today's social problems, creating opportunities for those who have major moral and scientific capacity to do so, and they can present independent candidacies without committing to give bestowals to members of any political party. To achieve this objective it would mark the beginning of the consolidation of participatory democracy, that is, real democracy, from our governors began to be our genuine representatives. Therefore it is necessary to begin to realize marches from the occupied places, and in general from each city's civic squares, to the corresponding legislative halls and offices with banners and placards with slogans like "Occupy the Government", "Initiative of Law to definitely overcome the recurrent economic crises and their every time bigger corresponding levels of barbarism", "Suppression of wages to popularly elected governors since the 2012 elections", and so on. Achieving this objective already it will be left to protest and begin to participate as if real democracy already exists and as the 99 percent dig into real work over how to solve the problems.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

yes. we can and must and should directly disintegrate the oligarchy.

yes that can be done in a non violent manner that is evolutionary and even fair to them instead of vengeful. I can't answer how occupy wall street intends to etc all i can say is that a new meta entity has just been born, and its pissed off and mad as hell and not going to take it any more. We have to collectively invest in its education and inform its direction or it could end up accomplishing very little.

on that note, and curiously and rather coincidentally to your point;


http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/WorkShops_in_SB_on_Sunday


http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/WorkShops_in_SB_on_Sunday

http://issuepedia.net/index.php?title=NI4D

http://issuepedia.net/index.php?title=Main_Page

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Occupy_Sites

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Issues_%2B_Political_Platform_Items

Occupy SB will be having Sunday Workshops in Conjunction with visits every other week at occupy Isla Vista.

There will be five main workshops and anyone may step forward at the start of any work shop pre meeting to volunteer a new workshop.

  1. Non Violence Theory, Practice, Ethics, and Protest Communication. 10:00 AM for one hour.

  2. Direct Democracy; Intellectual and Social Tools For High Order Problems. 12:00 Noon for one Hour

  3. Paradigm Shifts; How they Work, What makes them tick, and how to make one happen now. 2:00 pm for one hour

  4. Issues Exploration; 3:30 for two hours

  5. Physical Non Violence; Expert Non Violence in Tough Situations. (Through out the Day in between breaking points of other meetings, generally, 15 minutes or so in between the other workshops, and specifically in response to requests and as appropriate with the interest.)

This is a call out to off duty police officers, to come be trained in non violence, and to see what we are telling people about how to respond to police violence.

10 people on camp comittee can't hold it. We need soldiers. We need peeps. This is the call out. Please help make this happen.

http://occupysb.org/forums/topic/workshops-sunday/

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/WorkShops_in_SB_on_Sunday

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

yes. we can and must and should directly disintegrate the oligarchy.

yes that can be done in a non violent manner that is evolutionary and even fair to them instead of vengeful. I can't answer how occupy wall street intends to etc all i can say is that a new meta entity has just been born, and its pissed off and mad as hell and not going to take it any more. We have to collectively invest in its education and inform its direction or it could end up accomplishing very little.

on that note, and curiously and rather coincidentally to your point;


http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/WorkShops_in_SB_on_Sunday


http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/WorkShops_in_SB_on_Sunday

http://issuepedia.net/index.php?title=NI4D

http://issuepedia.net/index.php?title=Main_Page

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Occupy_Sites

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Issues_%2B_Political_Platform_Items

Occupy SB will be having Sunday Workshops in Conjunction with visits every other week at occupy Isla Vista.

There will be five main workshops and anyone may step forward at the start of any work shop pre meeting to volunteer a new workshop.

  1. Non Violence Theory, Practice, Ethics, and Protest Communication. 10:00 AM for one hour.

  2. Direct Democracy; Intellectual and Social Tools For High Order Problems. 12:00 Noon for one Hour

  3. Paradigm Shifts; How they Work, What makes them tick, and how to make one happen now. 2:00 pm for one hour

  4. Issues Exploration; 3:30 for two hours

  5. Physical Non Violence; Expert Non Violence in Tough Situations. (Through out the Day in between breaking points of other meetings, generally, 15 minutes or so in between the other workshops, and specifically in response to requests and as appropriate with the interest.)

This is a call out to off duty police officers, to come be trained in non violence, and to see what we are telling people about how to respond to police violence.

10 people on camp comittee can't hold it. We need soldiers. We need peeps. This is the call out. Please help make this happen.

http://occupysb.org/forums/topic/workshops-sunday/

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/WorkShops_in_SB_on_Sunday

[-] 1 points by ThomasJefferson (10) 2 years ago

Hi Prometheus,

I am pleased to know your hard work, congratulations and thank you for the enlightening and guiding to me what I need to do next.

But you do not be fooled by fatigue, I have thoroughly reviewed the documents to which you refer and I have not found an effective formula to directly disintegrate to the current oligarchies.

Indeed the whole plan goes against them, but easily they can overcome it simply waiting for our movement is exhausted by fatigue, as we are wasting work and energy every day, besides the fear of possible attacks, which is what more fatigue.

I am very sad to see how time is running out for Spain, as their next general elections are November 20 and they have not obtained anything in particular. Just I could yesterday present my proposal (which I could mature very slowly) to the brothers of 15M movement, but I think it's too late for them.

We start with a superb coincidence, our admiration and recognition to Thomas Jefferson as one of the fathers of modern democracy and as a visionary of the future democracy. That is, we understand that if we still live a primitive democracy, it is on track despite all the sacrifices and we must be able to make it evolve to a real democracy, which must be composed of a valid representative democracy (not how it is now) and an effective participatory democracy. Direct democracy is a tool that can be very useful, but we can’t leave it like unique option.

We can also agree that the current electoral process, that we have already started, is an opened portal towards the future, because during it the repression which we suffer will tend to be minimum and we can raise our demands to Congress and which they are viable to be voted before the elections day with the eagerness of legislators to gain our votes for their respective parties, will be able to have a fundamental significance.

Soon then we must minimize our list of demands, preferably to a single synthetic demand that can be project towards each of our particular demands, and present it to Congress in time to authorize it and take effect.

I could not find another better formula for this demand than the suppression of wages to the governors from the 2012 elections. That may give rise to a real representative democracy and a growing participatory democracy to monitor the governors do not fall into corruption and also to collaborate with them without receiving any payment.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

i don't think we need to collapse into a single demand, i think we need to coalesce into a thousand and one solutions.

Marketing 101 tells us we need to build a very large net in order to bring in the people who have pet issues.

[-] 1 points by AreWeStillInOz (8) 3 years ago

We OWShitter will rule the world! I know we can do it if we just stick together. And come up with a plan. And actually come up with an agenda. Well, on second thought, thats never going to happen. I'm going back to Oz now. BYE!!!!