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Forum Post: We need one popular rational demand now!

Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 12, 2011, 8:03 p.m. EST by teamok (191)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The world sees we are angry. The government sees our discontent. We have demonstrated resolve but we need a demand people from both parties can get behind. Not some. ONE. One meaningful incorruptible demand we all will stop the gears for. Structural change to our system. Please look at the proposed Jefferson Madison 11th amendment to the bill of rights. It was needed then and is critical now. This is not a left or right issue. It goes to the very heart of self governance. I fear this will turn out to be a ritualistic display. A kind of remnant of democracy that turns empty handed and heads home or becomes the mob the media wants it to be. Lets get some teeth to this by focusing on one very possible powerful demand that the 99% can all support without compromise until the will of the people is done.

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417 Comments


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[-] 7 points by MyHeartSpits (448) 12 years ago

Money out of politics. The 99% agree!

[-] 2 points by TimeForLiberty (21) 12 years ago

1-Repeal the Patriot Act

2-Get out of Iraq and Afghanistan

3-Guantanamo

4-Simplify the tax code, reduce the rate, get rid of loopholes, no special interest in the tax code!

5-Audit the Federal Reserve and hold the folks responsible of messing our economy

Start with these 5 and we are on the way to a better America!

These are TARGETED, Actionable goals.

Go too broad like "Stop Corporate Greed" and you won't go too far.

You need to stay focused and targeted.

[-] 1 points by MyHeartSpits (448) 12 years ago

Agreed, but we need a uniting, singular goal to bring people to our cause before we can focus on how to achieve it.

[-] 1 points by TimeForLiberty (21) 12 years ago

Let's start with fighting for our rights to free speech: Target the Patriot Act!

Anyone ready to start a petition on Change.org?

You will get support all across the board!

[-] 2 points by armchairecon (138) 12 years ago

if you include unions as well as corporations, i agree.. can't make this one sided..

[-] 1 points by dadgader (47) from Vancouver, WA 12 years ago

Unions can't compete with corporate money. One billionaire could write a check bigger than the total union dues collected in this country... and they do. Sure, nobody should be able to contribute, but don't buy the Fox New bullshit that unions are driving politics... if they were, how come union membership has been falling since 1980???

[-] 1 points by gtyper (477) from San Antonio, TX 12 years ago

DadGader -

It's not an amount game. Money needs to be removed from the political equation.

The only part money should play is that they should be held accountable for their spending of our tax dollars. It should not be used to help them get elected from unions or corporations. Once you open the door to money it's a slippery slope.

In today's media and internet based society - we don't need the money in politics.

[-] 1 points by dadgader (47) from Vancouver, WA 12 years ago

I don't want any money in politics... I would like to see political contributions, political advertising, and lobbying all illegal!

[-] 1 points by armchairecon (138) 12 years ago

ability to compete is regardless if the contribution is $1 or $1b.. thats the point.. so unions, corporations, you, me are on equal footing

[-] 1 points by dadgader (47) from Vancouver, WA 12 years ago

I don't understand your comment. Are you saying I have just as much political influence with my one dollar contribution as Exxon does with their billions?

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 12 years ago

"Corporations Are Not People ...

Political Parties Are Not People ...

Institutions Are Not People ...

"We The 99%" Are People ...

Support us as Institutions ...

Join us in Solidarity as individuals ...

We are the 99%“

[-] 0 points by CorporationNotPerson (129) 12 years ago

Corporations are not people! Agreed! But the Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled otherwise. An Amendment to the Constitution is required:

"A corporate entity, in and of itself, is not a person and, therefore, is not entitled to the rights and protections afforded to a person as set forth in the Constitution of the United States of America."

[-] 0 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

99% with no demand is like nothing. 99% of nothing is nothing. I can't join a well meaning festival. Is this to make change or a ritualistic display of the ills we face and the burdens we carry. A lot of this is like a skipping record or looped sample of grievances as if to convince of their existence or to comfort us with our justification for being outraged. Focus. A single reasonable solution.is needed now. Not ills not evidence. Solution. I know there are many needed but for the success of this effort get behind one and focus others to do the same.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 12 years ago

teamok, have you seen this?

some typo's in ie. date..etc

http://occupywallst.org/forum/come-to-the-nyc-general-assembly-on-10-15-12-to-st/

it also appears that much will happen on the 15...???

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

I hadn't thanks. Hope that works to focus a demand and unify.

[-] 1 points by michaelshanley (8) from Austin, TX 12 years ago

There are NO exceptions...why when this statement is made, does everyone go, and do you mean unions too? Yes, corporation, unions, and private citizen... I don't want anyone going to the local store and buying poster board and making a political poster...that would be illegal. You have to elminate it all to remove corruption of money from politics.

[-] 1 points by SmallBizGuy (378) from Savannah, GA 12 years ago

I agree. You can't favor ANY group. That's the way it is now.

[-] 1 points by dadgader (47) from Vancouver, WA 12 years ago

Unions can't compete with corporate money. One billionaire could write a check bigger than the total union dues collected in this country... and they do. Sure, nobody should be able to contribute, but don't buy the Fox New bullshit that unions are driving politics... if they were, how come union membership has been falling since 1980???

[-] 1 points by SmallBizGuy (378) from Savannah, GA 12 years ago

Union membership has been falling due to the unions charging too much for their services. The unions have realized this, and they are "partnering" with some of the car manufacturers to lower the labor rate; However, they are going to take a share of the profits. Now that is smart Capitalism. I hope it works out for them. The union "members" are good people. The union leader caused the problems.

[-] 1 points by dadgader (47) from Vancouver, WA 12 years ago

Unions are not a problem to anyone except billionaire's that want more billions.

[-] 0 points by gtyper (477) from San Antonio, TX 12 years ago

Agreed. Money has no place in it.

That's not to say they can't try to make their case through proper discourse and appropriate representation -- but unions and corporations are NOT people.

[-] 1 points by Bubba (6) 12 years ago

yet they sell t-shirts for $10,and $5.00 to ship them,and bet they are not american made shirts.

[-] 1 points by gtyper (477) from San Antonio, TX 12 years ago

This. This. This.

[-] 1 points by IdFightGandhi (38) 12 years ago

Spot on. There are so many problems, corruption in the system that just a single demand is simply not enough. The foundation of our system has been destroyed and another quick fix, patch job won't do it.

I see OWS as an economic and inequality movement, not a social issue one (which are important too). But focus needs to be allowing people of all skill sets, demographics have a chance to participate in the economy through gainful employment.

Certainly big business has the means to employ Americans, they lack the will. Creating shareholder wealth by any means possible is how they operate.

They will argue its all global competitiveness. But they lobby to write favorable laws, get grants, tax havens, bailouts. They exploit the government of the people for their gain. Socialize the loses, privitize the gains, this is not capitalism. It must stop.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

How is the issue at hand they aren't going to do it for you. State how and stick with it. The 11th amendment. One demand! the world is watching we need to demand the change we want. Our gov is owned. We must tell them what WE want. We want the gates to the house that Jefferson built for the people so that they may keep corp. money out. Focus. ONE DEMAND! With unity peacefully uncompromisingly.

[-] 3 points by MyHeartSpits (448) 12 years ago

How is the issue as long as people agree not to push their personal agendas instead. Once we get money out of politics, then we can go pursue our sacred cows.

[-] 1 points by Bubba (6) 12 years ago

i love cows,just put their hind legs in my boots...

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

This Jefferson's amendment. Not mine. Look it up. It is viable.

[-] 0 points by Bubba (6) 12 years ago

And the poop out of my undies

[-] 2 points by Howtodoit (1232) 12 years ago

It's Time for a Million People March on Washington, D.C. to Reform Wall Street--Time to take back our Country from their Influence over OUR lawmakers! Here's how easily we do it, a focused good start: Take away their powers once again.

"We are here Congress because we want to REINSTATE the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wX which saved our country from the Great Depression by preventing banks and insurance companies from merging and becoming large brokerage firms; instead of Banks and Insurance companies--can't we learn a history lesson here Congress? Btw, why did most of you vote for its repeal in 1999? http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/19/shattering-the-glass-steagall-act/

And also we want you to CHANGE the Commodities Future Modernization Act of 2000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000 BACK to where it was before 2000, which since has deregulated energy markets and has allowed such scams as The Enron Loophole; whereas in the early 2000's Enron Corp. was charging 400 bucks plus for a kilowatt hour...They all when to jail for this. But, the Enron loophole is still not CLOSED, for example, allowing speculators to resell barrels of oil over and over again before it reaches the gas station owner. It's basically, legal gambling at our expense. What were those lawmakers thinking then? What are you thinking now? Either do the right thing, or you're part of 1%."

Reasons:

Why are oil prices high? The Enron Loophole

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbdtTGYQBMU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNp0y0SjOkY&feature=related

Rolling Stones Reporter: Truth about Goldman Sachs--how they have cornered the markets--basically, The Enron Loophole and the Repeal of Glass-Steagall Act in 1999. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waL5UxScgUw

[-] 2 points by JohnInDenver (2) 12 years ago

I am 100% with you on this. GET MONEY OUT is our one demand. Once this problem is fixed, it will become possible for all the other demands to be heard.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

help focus others. thanks

[-] 2 points by Howtodoit (1232) 12 years ago

Basically, I feel we need to demand Congress to reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, which was the solution that ended the wide-spread corruption on Wall Street during the Great Depression by preventing banks and insurance companies from being one, which I feel is the root issue of how we got here. Please read this:

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wXj http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/19/shattering-the-glass-steagall-act/

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Your right. but we could do the same thing through the constitution and strip corp person hood all at the same time. fixing our system of self rule is critical. I believe this will do both. http://www.getmoneyout.com/

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 12 years ago

Thanks. At least its a good start! And also need to Close the Enron Loophole, here's my two cents:

We are here Congress because we want to bring BACK the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wX which saved our country from the Great Depression, and also CHANGE the Commodities Future Modernization Act of 2000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000 which deregulated energy markets and allowed such scams as The Enron Loophole; whereas in the early 2000's Enron Corp. was charging 400 bucks plus for a kilowatt hour...They all when to jail for this. But, the Enron loophole is still not closed, allowing speculators, for example, to resell barrels of oil over and over again before it reaches the gas station owner. It's basically, legal gambling at our expense."

[-] 0 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Think those are good moves but they don't clean our system of self rule the way this law would. once we have a clean environment to govern in those kinds of changes are possible.

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 12 years ago

good point

[-] 2 points by patriot4change (818) 12 years ago

You want money out of Politics? I can tell you who the major $$$ contributors to State and Federal politics are in the U.S. Do you want to know how? It's easy. Just log-in to the website www.followthemoney.org. Click on any level of Government you wish to track in the chart. For example, here are the major $$$ contributors to the New York state political process:

TABLE 3: Top 20 Contributors (Contributor Total % of Total Sector)

PALADINO, CARL P $7,818,524 3.97% Candidate Contributions COFFEY, JOHN P $5,155,223 2.62% Candidate Contributions DEMOCRATIC SENATE CAMPAIGN CMTE OF NEW YORK $5,109,841 2.59% Party WILSON, HARRY J $3,958,200 2.01% Candidate Contributions SENATE REPUBLICAN CAMPAIGN CMTE OF NEW YORK $2,649,450 1.34% Party FRIENDS OF KATHLEEN RICE $2,641,527 1.34% Candidate Contributions NEW YORK STATE UNITED TEACHERS $1,888,259 0.96% Labor ANDREW CUOMO 2010 INC $1,707,280 0.87% Candidate Contributions NEW YORK STATE TRIAL LAWYERS $1,479,964 0.75% Lawyers & Lobbyists 1199 SEIU UNITED HEALTHCARE WORKERS EAST $1,244,450 0.63% Labor FRIENDS OF SCHNEIDERMAN $959,313 0.49% Candidate Contributions NEW YORK STATE CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS $955,373 0.48% Labor HEALTH CARE ASSOCIATION OF NEW YORK STATE $947,115 0.48% Health CUOMO DUFFY 2010 $897,000 0.46% Candidate Contributions DEMOCRATIC ASSEMBLY CAMPAIGN CMTE OF NEW YORK $890,243 0.45% Party NEW YORKERS FOR KLEIN $862,618 0.44% Candidate Contributions GREATER NEW YORK HOSPITAL ASSOCIATION $783,670 0.40% Health RENT STABILIZATION ASSOCIATION $749,950 0.38% Finance, Insurance & Real Estate REAL ESTATE BOARD OF NEW YORK $749,124 0.38% Finance, Insurance & Real Estate CABLEVISION SYSTEMS CORP $730,257 0.37% Communications & Electronics

TABLE 4: Top 15 Industries (Top Industries Total)

Candidate Self-finance $22,919,406 Candidate Committees $15,037,393 Party Committees $13,676,403 Real Estate $13,524,261 Lawyers & Lobbyists $10,909,633 Public Sector Unions $9,568,836 Securities & Investment $8,061,753 General Trade Unions $7,811,443 Insurance $3,339,834 Health Professionals $3,162,600 Hospitals & Nursing Homes $2,869,361 Beer, Wine & Liquor $2,556,129 General Contractors $2,211,550 Telecom Services & Equipment $1,923,930 TV & Movie Production/Distribution $1,337,143

[-] 1 points by SanityScribe (452) 12 years ago

Confirms the idea, thanks.

[-] 2 points by buffita (3) 12 years ago

CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM is the answer to all of our country's economic woes. Ask for it. Defend it to the American people. It will set us free from corporate slavery. Thank you for your dedication and love of country.

[-] 2 points by guptara1 (6) 12 years ago

Bring back the glass-Steagall act. It will clamp the banks down to only making loans and taking deposits, as it should have been all along.

[-] 0 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Fact is corps stiil had way to much power even with glass-Steagall holding back some bank power.

[-] 2 points by fixwallstreetnow (42) from San Francisco, CA 12 years ago

Reinstate the Glass Steagall Act. Make derivatives trade on exchanges.

[-] 0 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

I like Glass Stegall it's doable and would help but doesn't strip corp. person-hood and I feel that is what is so deeply needed

[-] 2 points by Bernie (117) 12 years ago

Good post! I propose that one demand is to get money out of our elections.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

yes but how the solution is key to the demand. Jefferson and Madison gave it to us let's use it. It has more PR value than anything we could write and solves the problem in a stroke.

[-] 2 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

Demand solidarity around states application to congress for an Article V convention. Demand citizens wake up to the power of their state to control the federal government through amendment. The nation that can amend its constitution can enforce it.

[-] 0 points by RichardGates (1529) 12 years ago

get your right wing a$$ off your partisan crap. this guy is a republican trying to redirect you to a tea party cause. please ignore the attempt to redirect you.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

Hmmmm, I can't find any partisan in there. What do you term partisan in what I posted? The tea party refuses to even discuss article V??

[-] 1 points by RichardGates (1529) 12 years ago

"wake up to the power of their state" is a right wing position. does the top of this page say occupy washington. stop trying to redirect.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

You know more about right wing than I do. I know the states created the constitution and can invoke our first constitutional right, Article V, and we will get this nonsense with war, economy, corporations, and a lot more dealt with. Consider someone told you that such language was something to be afraid of because they were directed to divide people and prevent them from invoking the mandatory convention to amend. I've found that many people who should be knowledgeable of Article V and the facts are serously misinformed, but vocal, and artificially elevated by some form of promotion that is sort of hard to see. ON EDIT: check my web site if you still think that. http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

[-] 1 points by RichardGates (1529) 12 years ago

this is not a fix, only a process. the process as stated in the material you provide and my own reading is being ignored. like many other things. none of this matters until we restore power. stop dis-empowering labor by means of wage suppression and stop the legal bribe system. until then nothing else will be taken seriously. finishing, the applications that have been placed are from right wingers who think this is they way they can hold power since they have lost it at the federal level. http://www.foavc.org/file.php/1/Amendments sponsored by right wing lobby groups including religious organizations that fly in the face of the first amendment. it's being ignored because it's being abused by lobbyist

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

Article V changes the constitution. We will find that all of the corruption and unconstitutional activitis can be addressed in this manner. It is a fundamental reformation guided by the people democratically and represents the only law that allows making the federal government consitutional if they will not make themselves that way. The right to lifers lost credibility when they didn't recognize the effect nuclear weapons have on life, or pollution, accordingly their ties to government simply make application easier. What you show is religious discrimination and emotional reasoning used to distort. It's being made to look abused but is not. The church connection to state is abused.--------

There is not other law that allows enforcement of the constitution upon the federal government and the states must do it.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Our immediate problem is corp ownership of the people ability to self govern. If we don't limit them first they will buy what every they need (courts,laws,reps,PR) to subvert our will. Clean them from the house then rearrange the chairs together without money interference." I Only Demand the 11th!" Simple and does the job. Jefferson did the work fro us years ago

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

I wish it was that easy. But you are correct, that is a problem. I'm into solutions, too many damm problems, not enough solution.---------- Try this

http://occupywallst.org/forum/thomas-jefferson-is-on-our-side/#comment-77347 Well, actually, technically, legally, congress is in violation of the constitution for not conveneing delgates long ago. Another wiki piece that is verified. WIKI- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution "Congress acted preemptively to propose the amendments instead. At least four amendments (the Seventeenth, Twenty-First, Twenty-Second, and Twenty-Fifth Amendments) have been identified as being proposed by Congress at least partly in response to the threat of an Article V convention."-- Legally, based in that, American citizens have had their first right violated for a long time. Here a law suit uncovered some facts about congress and Article V. http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html Good links, resources. Also, congresses interpretations of Article V lack the constitutionality that is in the intent of the constitution when the 9th amendment and 14th amendment are considered, so all of their decisions based in the erroneous, unconstitutional interpretations are questionable. I'm quite certain that IF OWS focused on Article V, and called for the tea party to "Join in defense of the Constitution by use of the Constitution", the level of embarassment known by tea partiers in NOT using the constitution would have them either converting the tea party or parting ways. ON EDIT: TIOUAISE wrote: "THE PRESENT SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT IS IILLEGAL and therefore MUST be challenged by all patriotic and law-abiding Americans,"END-
Yes, and after many years of knowing that the failure of Americans to drive congress to convene, after the civil war, and formally end it, was used by congress to allow the defacto military government to continue without being made constitutional, explaining why they allow the gold fringed flag in courts. The "Lieber code" was the rules of engagement for the civil war and is still in effect. This page has much of that consolidated. See the .pdf download for the bits about the Lieber code and what led to unconstitutional government. http://algoxy.com/poly/emergency_powers_statutes.html

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Oh easy! you want it to be easy? Come on? Power does not give it up easy. We need focus and a single clean demand now or this will dissolve with nothing gained. Lets not dis-solve lets solve. Enact the 11th right.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

My post is about one single demand, which will include all others, that puts the ultimate power of the nation in the hands of the citizens. Our first constitutional right is Article V.

[-] 1 points by FamilyFoodGardens (240) 12 years ago

Occupy your motherland. http://www.petitiononline.com/SoLMag/petition.html

1 hectare for every willing family.

"The original discussion was about how to introduce the concept of giving one hectare of land to each family to the OWS movement and ultimately to the general American public." http://www.ringingcedarsrevolution.com/forum/topics/occupy-the-motherland

[-] 1 points by acobet (1) 12 years ago

The civil rights movement lasted 35 years. It takes time for a systematic change to take place. I don't know if it is in our best interest to rush into a single demand so soon. The whole idea is that we need a system-wide change, and I am not sure if a single demand will satisfy that goal. I understand your reasoning behind wanting a single demand right now, but this movement will not lose steam as long as we do not lose hope.

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 12 years ago

Here's my dream:

Today Congress we are here to start the wheels of governing turning in a different direction. It’s pretty obvious to me and the American people that our voice has been lost in the rambling of lobbyist's hard cash throughout the Halls of Justice.

So we are here to take back our government and restore its fundamental principals to the American people. That this government is for the people, and by the people, and not by the rich anymore.

Here’s how we plan on accomplishing this. First, ladies and gentlemen of the US Congress, we are setting up a nationwide interactive website devoted to understanding (if possible) why you vote on a particular issue, and if that vote benefits the American people the most, or one of your campaign contributors? After every vote in Congress, the American people can now see what you are thinking, or not. How? These results will be broadcasted nightly on all of the major networks and on the web.

Secondly, to maintain an even playing filed, we will next enact campaign Position limits on a maximum of $100 for any person or corporation or so forth; so hopefully now we have an even playing field, which now the lawmaker will hopefully pick what’s right for the American people, verse big business!

Next, it gets better, we are introducing a bill that would require all lawmakers to take a lie detector test if they are asked why they voted on a particular bill.

I’m sorry to say Congress that it has come down to this, but when you deal with children, sometimes you are forced to act according.

Thanks you for your time.

[-] 1 points by seaglass (671) from Brigantine, NJ 12 years ago

Free Coffee!!

[-] 1 points by Oceanhome (20) 12 years ago

Start a new currency, That will do it.

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 12 years ago

How we can easily Reform Wall Street: Take away their powers once again.

"We are here Congress because we want to bring BACK the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wX which help saved our country from the Great Depression by preventing investment companies, banks and insurance companies from merging and becoming large brokerage firms; instead of just being Banks and Insurance companies--can't we learn a history lesson here Congress? Btw, why did most of you vote for its repeal in 1999? http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/19/shattering-the-glass-steagall-act

Think about where we are now, it all started in 1999 with the subprime loans Senator Phil Gramm was peaching on Senate floor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKQOxr2wBZQ&feature=related

Furthermore, we also want you to CHANGE the Commodities Future Modernization Act of 2000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000 BACK to where it was before 2000, which since has deregulated energy markets and has allowed for such scams as The Enron Loophole; whereas in the early 2000's Enron Corp. was charging 400 bucks plus for a kilowatt hour...They all when to jail for this. But, the Enron loophole is still not closed, for example, allowing speculators to resell barrels of oil over and over again before it reaches the gas station owner. It's basically, legal gambling at our expense. What were those lawmakers thinking then? What are you thinking now? Either do the right think, or you're part of the 1%."

Why are oil prices high? The Enron Loophole

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbdtTGYQBMU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNp0y0SjOkY&feature=related

Rolling Stones Reporter: Truth about Goldman Sachs--how they have cornered the markets--basically, The Enron Loophole and the Repeal of Glass-Steagall Act in 1999. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waL5UxScgUw

[-] 1 points by RobertDangerAllen (14) from Vero Beach, FL 12 years ago

No taxation without representation!

[-] 1 points by RobertDangerAllen (14) from Vero Beach, FL 12 years ago

This movement must not end. It cannot end. Getting beaten is worth it, if we accomplish something. Failure means death for millions. We cannot fail.

Here are our demands:

1-Require the immediate return of all bailout capital, and use it to pay off all civilian debts, even if at deep discount.

2-Expand antitrust laws to include any single company that makes more than 2.5% of the US Government's one-year revenue for three consecutive years. (~$112bil/yr)

3-Designate lobbying and filibustering as forms of treason.

4-Limit congressional appointments to 2 terms.

5-End both wars, redeploy all US troops as humanitarian aid for the next 3 years.

6-Establish a flat tax with no exceptions, all people and corporations taxed evenly.

7-Increase public education salaries by 50%, double the budget for teachers nationally.

8-Invest Gov't funds ($bil) into Venture Capital firms in the nation.

9-End all non-essential subsidies; Outlaw all GM foods & terminator seeds.

10-Restrict profits on all medical services & products. Subsidize all of it for everyone, immediately.

1-Paying off civilian debts will free up spending money to cover living expenses. The bailout money would end up in the same place, but no one would be paying interest on it. This also frees loan capital for new credit.

2-Breaking up conglomerates will produce more mid-management and upper-management jobs, as well as increase competition, increase supply-chain diversity, increase product selection – All of which helps stimulate economic growth. Any companies that generate more revenue per year than the US Government exists as a threat to our sovereignty. We cannot permit our nation to persist as a puppet government.

3-Lobbying is thinly veiled bribery, filibustering is a means of stymieing the legislative process. Both should be obvious to anyone as violations of due process, attempts to subvert the legal system against the tenets of our great nation.

4-Professional politicians ruined Rome. They have ruined America. We need a constant stream of new blood in congress to prevent

5-Ending both wars will relieve our national debt fears, and sending them to perform humanitarian aid will show the world that Americans do have souls.

6-A flat tax for all people and corporations would make our national tax revenue explode, even with a tax rate below what the non-rich already pay.

7-Enhancing public education salaries and budgets would allow for more teachers to be hired, meaning more college grads are employed everywhere, and they get paid enough to live on.

8-Venture Capital funds invest in startups and small businesses, which account for the vast majority of companies in the US and produce many, many jobs. The returns on these investments will provide additional revenue, perhaps even enough to save Social Security.

9-Subsidies drain the gov't, GM food causes a whole host of direct environmental problems and indirect health dangers, and terminator seeds harm farmers.

10-Restrict profits on medical services and products, healthcare costs will plummet, making government-subsidized healthcare a feasible option.

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 12 years ago

How easily we can Reform Wall Street--Simple & Direct

It's Time for a Million People March on Washington, D.C. to Reform Wall Street--Time to take back our Country from their Influence over OUR lawmakers! Here's how easily we can do it, a focused good start: Take away their powers "once again."

"We are here Congress because we want to REINSTATE the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wX which saved our country from the Great Depression by preventing banks and insurance companies from merging and becoming large brokerage firms; instead of Banks and Insurance companies--can't we learn a history lesson here Congress? Btw, why did most of you vote for its repeal in 1999? http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/19/shattering-the-glass-steagall-act/

And also we want you to CHANGE the Commodities Future Modernization Act of 2000http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000 BACK to where it was before 2000, which since has deregulated energy markets and has allowed such scams as The Enron Loophole; whereas in the early 2000's Enron Corp. was charging 400 bucks plus for a kilowatt hour...They all when to jail for this. But, the Enron loophole is still not CLOSED, for example, allowing speculators to resell barrels of oil over and over again before it reaches the gas station owner. It's basically, legal gambling at our expense. What were those lawmakers thinking then? What are you thinking now? Either do the right thing, or you're part of 1%."

Reasons:

Why are oil prices high? The Enron Loophole

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbdtTGYQBMU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNp0y0SjOkY&feature=related

Rolling Stones Reporter: Truth about Goldman Sachs--how they have cornered the markets--basically, The Enron Loophole and the Repeal of Glass-Steagall Act in 1999. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waL5UxScgUw

[-] 1 points by DanYule (14) 12 years ago

by Chana Cox

In Tuesday night’s Dartmouth debate, the Republican candidates were generally agreed on the need to repeal Dodd-Frank. That is all well and good, but banking does need regulation. For 70 years a cluster of New Deal laws, the Glass-Steagall laws, successfully prevented American banks from becoming “too big to fail.” Dodd-Frank should be repealed, and an updated Glass-Steagall should replace it.

In 1933, the Glass-Steagall Act introduced the FDIC which insured bank depositors for up to $10,000 in loss because such insurance was seen to be essential to the maintenance of the banking system. Once the taxpayers were on the hook for bank losses, Glass-Steagall severely restricted the risk to those taxpayers by restricting the scope of banks. The act separated commercial banking, the relatively low risk business of taking deposits and lending money from investment banking, the very high risk business of issuing securities and taking capital positions in businesses and in all manner of other investments. Commercial banks were insured by the federal government, but they were to be stiffly regulated and limited in geographic scope. No American bank would be allowed to do business in more than three states.

In contrast, investments banks were not restricted geographically and they were less regulated but they could not take deposits and their operations were not guaranteed or insured by the Federal Government. Taken together, these Depression-era statutes limited tax payer exposure and risk and limited the size of any one commercial bank. High risk investment banking could and did continue, but it was not federally insured. Furthermore investment banks were often formed as partnerships and the individual partners were personally liable for the firm’s debts.

The 1999 repeal of Glass-Steagall was a disastrous game changer. Commercial banks were allowed and even encouraged to engage in high risk activities – particularly those supported by the politicians in power. The politicians used banks to advance their specific agendas, and the banks used the politicians to insure them against failure. At the same time, as the commercial banks became larger and larger, they became less and less effective as traditional lending institutions. In Oregon, we were better served by First Interstate than we are now being served by its successor Wells Fargo; we were better served by Washington Mutual than we are now being served by Chase; and Bank of America was a strong West Coast bank but it has become a very weak national bank.

After 1999 these newer, larger, freer commercial banks were finding it very profitable to take increasingly risky positions in other markets, like mortgage-backed securities and credit default positions. Under Glass-Steagall such investments would have been illegal for a commercial bank. Instead, commercial banks would have been lending money to local citizens and businesses. They would have been serving their communities as bankers. These riskier investments should be illegal for banks not because they are risky but because it is the taxpayers who are at risk. Our bankers are playing roulette with taxpayer money. If individual bankers win, they are rewarded with multi-million dollar bonuses that get paid out every year; if they lose, the taxpayers foot the bill. Mere months before the repeal of Glass-Steagall, Goldman Sacks, the quintessential investment bank, went public as a corporation and ceased to be a partnership. The partners were no longer liable for the debt – the corporation was. No one was personally liable. Goldman Sacks has now taken the further step and legally turned itself into a bank. Now, even the corporation is not liable – the Federal government and its taxpayers are Goldman Sacks debt. That has proven very expensive for the taxpayers.

In the 1990’s one argument offered for the repeal of Glass-Steagall was that America’s banking system, with its restricted local banks, was inferior to the far more powerful and monopolistic European banks. The banking industry preferred the European model. Ten years ago Deutsche Bank, through its own share position, was in control of much of the German economy. The European banks were far more powerful than the American banks and American bankers wanted that kind of power. In retrospect, we have come to understand that the major European banks have contributed greatly to the current European financial breakdown.

The Glass-Steagall laws successfully regulated the American banking systems. In crisis situations, like the savings and loan crises of the 1980s, the government could step in and save depositors. The problems were manageable. Once banks were allowed to go national and to go into virtually any and all investments, the problems became unmanageable and the moral hazard for both the bankers and co-dependent politicians became catastrophic. Banks were too big to fail and too unregulated to save. Dodd-Frank merely exacerbates those problems.

Bring back Glass-Steagall.

[-] 1 points by ikaramazov (2) 12 years ago

The purpose of this movement should be to demand an economy with competitive markets, not the corrupted and inefficient economic, political, and legal system we have.

The means is to expose the Hypocrisy of the Oligarchs.

Oligarchs' actions over the last 30 years have been to usurp the political, regulatory, legal, and economic systems. They have manipulated the credulous by claiming their subsidies and exemptions were to increase market-efficiency. In reality, this has locked-in inefficiencies which they have used to maximize their influence and coffers. Some of them have even figured out a way to rationalize this. If this movement is to instill lasting change, then it must remove this veil of subterfuge. The prerequisite for an efficient market is justice, some measure of equity, and equal opportunity. These are American values, these are universal values, that not even the 1% can deny.

[-] 1 points by thejunkie (50) 12 years ago

You see the current situation and the root it is born from rests upon a very simple mathematical formula

supply = demand

With that in mind, all Americans and the rest of the world has to do in the initial stage is to stop the demand and the suppliers will automatically crumble. There are no need for protests. Simply concentrate on ending demand and the rest will happen by itself. Corporations will close down automatically, Banks will fall and the Rich will go bankrupt because they too depend on the 99% demand.

If the current situation is not approached in this way it will never work. The Junkie has to get of the Drug, suffer the withdrawal symptoms and then recover and find better ways of living. Greed a pleasant sensation within the human body which propels a being into wanting more and multiplying of that sensation must then be addressed and ways of understanding this effect be found and ultimately overcome.

Attack the [supply = demand] formula and you guys will have a changed world in no time at all and you would not have lifted a finger.

The dealers count on you remaining addicted, therefore do not take you seriously. They know that most will never give up fashion, technology, entertainment etc.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

I don't think we have that kind of unity. The S=D approach is certainly a tool that should be employed. and is use by many of us. Some focus on the food revolution happen at the same time. Other are pulling their money from the banks and going to credit unions. It's happening slowly. This is about what we can do. The possible not fantasy

[-] 1 points by Matthias (1056) 12 years ago

How do you want to keep money out of politics in a democracy? The voters are the governent as well. And they are also bribed. You need to cut down on the power of the love of money altogether. More in my post. What would Jesus say about OccupyWallSt.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Of course money would still make its way in but It would be a punishable crime. This is how http://www.getmoneyout.com/

[-] 1 points by ms3000 (253) 12 years ago

We are a group of attorneys and students who have drafted a petition of grievances and plan of action. We would love to have your input. We will propose this declaration and plan of action tomorrow at the NYC General Assembly.

This is the declaration and petition: https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/

This is the plan of action: https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/home/the-steps-to-non-violent-revolution

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

I fully support that effort. I do feel that the corp person-hood problem, lobby restrictions and campaign finance reform are the top issues you will get support for universally. Because of this very special kind of support should be the focus of our movement. We need a meaningful win and these issues have viability that many of the demands on you list don't. Not that I wouldn't want them. If it turns out that we collectively end up behind a list I will champion it but as we consider what we want, what is posible should be in the front of our minds. The more demands we have and the more unreasonable our demands the less likely we are to get anything at all.

[-] 1 points by DCResident (70) 12 years ago

Break up the Too Big to Fail banks. Separate commercial banks, from investment banks, from insurance companies.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

How is this really structural and meaningful. The owners are still the same and money still runs our gov. Your suggestion though helpful is not a solution. It is only a rearranging of pieces on the board with no real rule changes that created the monsters in the first place.

[-] 1 points by DCResident (70) 12 years ago

First, it is merely one piece of a much larger puzzle. There is no magic bullet, but I think this would be a great first step.

The sheer size of the TBTF banks makes them a systemic risk to our economy. If one goes down, it draws the entire corrupt system with it, which then entails a multi-trillion dollar global bailout. Separating the three would make commercial banking more structurally sound regardless of the general economic conditions, and would minimize the cash available to the investment banking gamblers.

Plus, it would be a shot across Wall Street's bow. As in, "We know your game, and we're here to put an end to it. This is the first of many reforms, but it will hit you where it hurts."

[-] 1 points by seaglass (671) from Brigantine, NJ 12 years ago

Your wrong. If we demand of them we are then tacitly agreeing they're power is legitimate and many of us no longer feel that it is.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

How are we tacitly agreeing by demanding the solution we devise? We do not compromise. We demand and the power of the people be felt via occupation and disturbance until our will is done.

[-] 1 points by seaglass (671) from Brigantine, NJ 12 years ago

I wish it worked that way friendo. It doesn't. Remember were dealing with FASCISM/CORPORATISM not a democratically elected Gov't. The people opposing us aren't just going to walk off the field of battle, if you think so your naive.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

So you offer no solution? We are doomed to stay slaves to the fascist machine?

[-] 1 points by seaglass (671) from Brigantine, NJ 12 years ago

Frankly, from what I've seen of the opposition so far in this sad country there is a very high probability of that in many of our futures.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

why are you here then?

[-] 1 points by seaglass (671) from Brigantine, NJ 12 years ago

Because, your all we got.

[-] 1 points by seaglass (671) from Brigantine, NJ 12 years ago

Make me Dictator for a yr. with total power and I'll fix this mess. I promise. ;)

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

If that is truly the case. We are going to need a lot of help. I understand You may feel I'm on the wrong track with my approach. You may not want to say what you really would like to see happen so you offer critique as a mode of participation. I encourage you to offer a solution or find one you like a be a proponent for it. Otherwise you are akin to a fence on the deck of a ship in a storm.

[-] 1 points by patriot4change (818) 12 years ago

Separation of Boardroom and State.

[-] 1 points by olgglory78 (17) 12 years ago

Debt-Free Currency....

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Would help but would likely get taxed and then sent to make war if we aren't in control of our gov and the corps are. http://www.getmoneyout.com/

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

Get ALL money out of politics and elections. It CAN be done.

See http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-the-people-in-order-to-a-proposal/

[-] 1 points by DArmstrong (4) 12 years ago

One demand? so they can offer up a lamb? I hope this movement is too smart for that

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Why would we demand a lamb? We except nothing short of our demand. So far there hasn't been a whole lot of smarts used to display multiple grievances however real they are. Explain your critique.

[-] 1 points by SirReasonable (13) 12 years ago

I have a few ideas that are worth looking at - I promise that a few of them are the best demands that anyone has presented so far.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/ways-to-improve-and-equalize-the-economy

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Not bad at all. We still can't have real elections and money still pollutes the our houses of self rule

[-] 1 points by Chaotic (35) 12 years ago

Money out of politics, no doubt about it! Hell....if that could be accomplished I'd even be ok with a pay raise!

Getting our troops home will follow

Health care will follow

All of these other things will follow once we have a real voice.

The money and influence is THE single issue that has gotten us to this point.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

help focus others

[-] 1 points by USAManufacturer (5) 12 years ago

Congress is exempt from insider trading laws. Read this article. This should be an simple and effective...and popular rallying cry!!!

http://www.minyanville.com/businessmarkets/articles/raj-rajaratnam-galleon-insider-trading-rajaratnam/10/13/2011/id/37373?camp=syndication&medium=portals&from=Fool

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

thanks for the info

[-] 1 points by dag (1) 12 years ago

No more lobbyists... Or how about for every hour a politician spends talking to a lobbyist, they must spend an equal amount of time with a non-corporate expert in the field who can offer unbiased information?

How about ending corporate campaign contributions? And donations by individual employees of a corporation can be severely limited.

How about if the people appointed to high ranking positions in the FDA, EPA etc must not have corporate ties to the industries they are supposed to be policing? They shouldn't have come from high-ranking positions in those industries, have family members in high-ranking positions, or own stock in any of the affected companies.

How about if the food industries stay out of nationally-sponsored nutritional guidance? What if scientific evidence guided us in determining what people should be eating instead of the companies profiting from our obesity epidemic?

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

What is your primary one? Just one and make it something we all already know about so no teaching is needed. Make it something we can all agree is a good solution. How would you achieve you aims ? Would it look like this? http://www.getmoneyout.com/

[-] 1 points by FairShare (90) 12 years ago

President Obama is coming to my neck of the woods. If you want to get something out what would it be.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

http://www.getmoneyout.com/ Remove the corp rights that they were never intended to have thus limiting there access to our sensitive and critically important apparatuses of self rule. This a common gripe across the country. If they do't do it we will be forced to move in the article V fashion to amend the constitution. I fear O won't hear it until the banks tell him about it.

[-] 1 points by SanityScribe (452) 12 years ago

There is much going on here in this movement, and much will develop from it. I wanted to give focus for one general idea.

New facebook page. Only one topic, focused maybe it can develop.

Get it started here..

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Get-Money-Out-of-Politics/170454236375392

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

there is this as well http://www.getmoneyout.com/

[-] 1 points by LincolnCA (160) 12 years ago

stop the foreclosures, and re-write all the mortgages created during the housing bubble. This will return some equity and ownership back the the American people instantly.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

It would help but changes nothing structural at all so it will happen again without fail.

[-] 1 points by concernedinutah (102) 12 years ago

You folks have hit it on the head - we need the money out of politics if we are ever going to have integrity in our political system again. Real, loop-hole free campaign finance reform is the place to start. By choking off the bribery that is currently legal we may actually get some people elected that really care about the country more than lining their own pockets or feeling self-important. It may take years, but eventually the current politicians who are lap dogs of the corporations and special interests will die off, if for no other reason than old age. This should apply to all special interests - corporations and unions and any one else trying to stack the deck in their favor with their money.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

help focus others http://www.getmoneyout.com/

[-] 1 points by Incognito (2) 12 years ago

The private bankers (FED, IMF ,Central Banks Bank of England etc) have over the years taken our money by many different means. The share holders of these private banks are responsible for the current economic problems. the private banks are insolvent and should be closed like any other business and the shareholders private assets (including corporations and wealth and property )should be confiscated and the Trillions of dollars put back into the national economies of the world under the peoples control. Have any of the Rothschilds or Morgans ever stood in s dole Queue? Take away their money and you take away their power over the media and politicians!!!!!

[-] 1 points by Incognito (2) 12 years ago

The private bankers (FED, IMF ,Central Banks Bank of England etc) have over the years taken our money by many different means. The share holders of these private banks are responsible for the current economic problems. the private banks are insolvent and should be closed like any other business and the shareholders private assets (including corporations and wealth and property )should be confiscated and the Trillions of dollars put back into the national economies of the world under the peoples control. Have any of the Rothschilds or Morgans ever stood in s dole Queue? Take away their money and you take away their power over the media and politicians!!!!!

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Not going to get the 99% to do it but I think we could get them to support a money out of gov by limiting corp rights. Unify around One agreed on solution demand and we will get it.

[-] 1 points by carlfuller (1) 12 years ago

Multinational corps. have purchased our federal representatives to pass free trade. And 20 million american jobs are currently, permanently out of this country. And more free trade agreements are in bills now. We need to have at lease 50 billion $ a month in tarrifs on manufactured goods to bring our jobs back home. Carl, mr.goodbar6123@yahoo.com

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Take away the power to influence gov and we need not raise the prices of things

[-] 1 points by Bubba (6) 12 years ago

We need porta potties on wall rd.

[-] 1 points by Bubba (6) 12 years ago

well poop my britches

[-] 1 points by Bubba (6) 12 years ago

Where did my pooper post go,ain't that just the shiitz....censorship...just like the big gov't.

[-] 1 points by Bubba (6) 12 years ago

we need pooper pots,my pants are getting gushy from nowhere to poop.

[-] 1 points by occupythefederalreserve (5) 12 years ago

Occupy Wall Street is not going to amount to anything other than a political vehicle of constant confusion from left to right without any solidarity purpose. Wall Street is the primary tool for the private Federal Reserve bankster organization. Even if Wall Street were to suffer in some way from OWS (won't happen), the root of the cancer still remains, which is the Federal Reserve [sic] private organized crime syndicate. The only way to kill a cancer is to stop feeding it. Turn this around and go after the real cancer. Occupy The Federal Reserve and watch how fast the country gets behind you.

[-] 1 points by anon3 (7) 12 years ago

blah

[-] 1 points by anon3 (7) 12 years ago

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?fedres

Get rid of the FED - initiate executive order 11110 put inplace by JFK to eliminate the FED and put the printing press back where it belongs - instead of in the hands of a PRIVATE group of banks who's only interest is making money

[-] 1 points by daverao (124) 12 years ago

I agree. This movement Will be more powerful. My idea. The real culprits are in government. Why are we not moving it to Washington dc? I tried hard to get answer but most of people agree but they say they have no control. So who deciding? May be the politicians. They want to keep us away and we are falling to it. All attention is diverted and nobody is questioning their failed policies. The union supporting us are being used by the politicians to keep us away from dc. What a fool are we. I think we have to be vigilant. DavPe

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Your right but we need to unify and focus. DC is where the law will change everywhere is where we must demand our common solution. They are in collusion so when we push on the intuitions that own them we push on them as well. http://www.getmoneyout.com/

[-] 1 points by LankyB (11) 12 years ago

The answer to division is Unity, the best way for us to become ONE is to Do As One, we can achieve that by breathing together synchronously. The word conspire comes from 2 Latin root words: con= with or together, and spirare = breathe. Therefore the true meaning of the word conspire is "to breathe together". Do As One, is a non-profit that promotes Unity by group synchronous breathing. On the website, doasone.org there are breathing rooms where we can synchronize our breath. Tomorrow, when this movement goes global, synchronous breathing could be just the thing we need to become One with the many.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

As beneficial as that may be it is a hard sell to 99%

[-] 1 points by occupythefederalreserve (5) 12 years ago

Occupy Wall Street is not going to amount to anything other than a political vehicle of constant confusion from left to right without any solidarity purpose. Wall Street is the primary tool for the private Federal Reserve bankster organization. Even if Wall Street were to suffer in some way from OWS (won't happen), the root of the cancer still remains, which is the Federal Reserve [sic] private organized crime syndicate. The only way to kill a cancer is to stop feeding it. Turn this around and go after the real cancer. Occupy The Federal Reserve and watch how fast the country gets behind you.

[-] 1 points by occupythefederalreserve (5) 12 years ago

Occupy Wall Street is not going to amount to anything other than a political vehicle of constant confusion from left to right without any solidarity purpose. Wall Street is the primary tool for the private Federal Reserve bankster organization. Even if Wall Street were to suffer in some way from OWS (won't happen), the root of the cancer still remains, which is the Federal Reserve [sic] private organized crime syndicate. The only way to kill a cancer is to stop feeding it. Turn this around and go after the real cancer. Occupy The Federal Reserve and watch how fast the country gets behind you.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Lets kill the whole dragon not just one of its heads. take away its fire and scales and it's a lot less daunting. The FED is central to the problem but many know little about it and how it works and what would happen if we 86ed it. We need a simple reasonable thing that everyone already knows and understands no education needed. Unify with simplicity and we remove a lot of its power making further work possible. http://www.getmoneyout.com/

[-] 1 points by anon3 (7) 12 years ago

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?fedres

Get rid of the FED - initiate executive order 11110 put inplace by JFK to eliminate the FED and put the printing press back where it belongs - instead of in the hands of a PRIVATE group of banks who's only interest is making money

[-] 1 points by anon3 (7) 12 years ago

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?fedres

Get rid of the FED - initiate executive order 11110 put inplace by JFK to eliminate the FED and put the printing press back where it belongs - instead of in the hands of a PRIVATE group of banks who's only interest is making money

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Lets kill the whole dragon not just one of its heads. take away its fire and scales and it's a lot less daunting. The FED is central to the problem but many know little about it and how it works and what would happen if we 86ed it. We need a simple reasonable thing that everyone already knows and understands no education needed. Unify with simplicity and we remove a lot of its power making further work possible. http://www.getmoneyout.com/

[-] 1 points by sowaras (3) from Brooklyn, NY 12 years ago
[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

cool

[-] 1 points by asdf46554 (26) 12 years ago

Just leave. Polls show 74% people think you are wrong.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Yawn...... You and your quotes about polls. Wrong about what?

[-] 1 points by asdf46554 (26) 12 years ago

Wrong to be out there.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

74% say it is wrong to care? They says there's nothing worth working for because everything is fine? Our founding fathers instructions are wrong? How many believe their gov is owned and is non responsive to the problem we see? How many know the gov in its current state is a huge problem in its self? Think if you still can.

[-] 1 points by asdf46554 (26) 12 years ago

No you are wrong for not working. Get a job and grow up. Move out of your parents basement.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

You think you know me but you don't. You got it wrong on all assumptions.

[-] 1 points by Estupido (1) 12 years ago

Enough posts here have clearly articulated that, while there are MANY, problems we are addressing, the money in politics is the root of MOST of them. This is a fact well understood by the vast majority of American people, causing a great distrust of the system which is destroying our democracy. It's a sentiment that really DOES appeal to the 99% and can simultaneously lead to future reforms that so many here seek.

Private money out of politics.

Private money out of politics.

[-] 1 points by jk1234 (257) 12 years ago

The demand should be applicable internationally. Stop the Looting, and Begin the Prosecuting.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Fix our house before we ask the world to do a thing. We are a union. Lets act like one.

[-] 1 points by jk1234 (257) 12 years ago

It fixes the our house and those in other countries. The looting is worldwide. The specific ways to regulate and prosecute those within financial and political systems in each country may differ though.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

we only have power to change law here and if we do it will go a long way to changing other places

[-] 1 points by jk1234 (257) 12 years ago

I agree, but the basic message can still be the same in any country.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

lets stop talking about other options. We nee focus and to commit to one good one and lets push until we get it

[-] 1 points by blitznstitch (30) 12 years ago

Fine, if private money is taken out of all political elections (President to state officials to local officials) then how do we suggest candidates get their message out to us voters? We the public, with taxpayer dollars, would have to fund and control how politicians campaign for office. I am 100% for this, by the way. Each candidate that qualifies per local rules should have paid for by taxpayer dollars - One single online forum, paper leaflet mailed to all voters, one TV commercial, and individual websites for all candidates. In addition, private news companies and other institutions can set up debates, but there should also be debates paid for by taxpayers. Now, are we willing to raise our taxes to pay for reforms similar to this?! Show me the money!

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

That is a very posible solution to a problem that we don't have yet. We need to own the house before we can work on it. This idea limits individual donations : http://www.getmoneyout.com/ and could be coupled with the ideas you pointed out but first things first. Unify. There is nothing scarier to these corrupt orgs than all of us. including many we feel we are at odds with. if we find the one thing we all agree or and keep it pure so we have no reason for any internal division we can achieve our common goal. Complicate and isolate and we get nothing but memories of the attempt.

[-] 1 points by OccupyCapitolHill (197) 12 years ago

Hold Washington accountable for its mismanagement and borderline-criminal micromanagement of the economy. Clean out government corruption and restore accountability w/ the people in D.C.

[-] 1 points by bugmagnet (30) from Boston, MA 12 years ago

list of demands being compiled here too: http://occupywallst.org/forum/simple-demands-please/

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

No lists it is not unifying enough we need one that the 99% can truly get behind. One thing that all agree will fix the most. We need simplicity and to avoid anything that can divide us. We are all so used to being divided by issues that we set ourselves up to fail by dividing ourselves for our opposition. Unity is our only power. when they see us making lists i bet they giggle. I bet corp powers have people on the ground now pushing divisions in many ways. They are encouraging us to be vague and complex, making taxes or war or healthcare part of this muddles and refracts our power rendering the best group of demands to unreasonable impotence.

[-] 1 points by bugmagnet (30) from Boston, MA 12 years ago

fair enough, i def see your point. i participate in both.

[-] 1 points by LOVEPEACE (199) 12 years ago

PEACE. Demand nothing less. Stop playing their game. Stop with the scraps and blood money.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

We need the conditions that foster peace. You can't demand them. We have to work for them but we can demand a very specific and rational solution to a major problem that acts counter to peace. I believe if the corp rights were limited we would not be at war now and maybe never as our reps would serve our interests not the war machines they do now. http://www.getmoneyout.com/

[-] 1 points by LOVEPEACE (199) 12 years ago

The old way of thinking says the economy controls the war machine.

The new awareness understands it is the other way around. The war machine, violence and threat of violence ENFORCE the rigged economy.

You cannot enforce a new economy except by non-compliance, non-participation and moral authority. I mean.. attempts to change the law is another way of expressing non-compliance i guess. But there is a more direct and obvious way. One less confusing and difficult to develop solidarity with. It is simply demanding PEACE with moral authority. We do not support the enforcement of the rigged enslavement system through VIOLENT DOMINATION. You have address the REALITY. The system is ENFORCED under threat of violence and death. That is what war is. If you attempt to negotiate with this it is nothing but a buy off.

I promise. WWIII is coming while we argue about the economy. They enforce the economy through violence. So when it's collapsing we should KNOW it is engineered. But why? Why would they collapse something they are in complete control of? WAR. WWIII. They don't care about money. They print it and enforce it's value with violence. Go look at some Iraq and Libya war videos if you want to see how it's done. They plan on killing a lot of people. And it's not for money. It's to re-organize the control system they've established through violence and war. Money is for us. You cannot stop them by controlling the money who's value is controlled by them. If you take control of it, and people see that it has no value war is the result. That is what they want.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Got your points and agree with most. If all you say is true, demanding simply peace will be akin to asking to be let out of the casket that is long buried. We have to take or gov back. That is how they are getting us to pay for war what ever it's aim.

[-] 1 points by LOVEPEACE (199) 12 years ago

I know it seems impossible. But we simply haven't done it. Billion plus world wide agreeing to no more war. In the streets. Demanding Peace. It is the only way.

We aren't paying for war. They are PAYING US to support it. Everyone has bought into the scheme. Value everything in US dollars and then support the enforcement of it's value through violent domination.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Our taxes are the source of the money used for war. We have given up the right to control our own currency and gov. We must take it back and demand peace but not at the same event. We need to keep the message very clear and focused if we are to have an effect. I would rather 100 people join in for the law change who would normally not be involved with a peace movement then have them shy away because they aren't intellectually mature enough to get with peace.

[-] 1 points by LOVEPEACE (199) 12 years ago

I understand our understandings are different ;')

But i can agree the more focused the more effect ANY message/movement will have.

I think it's good that people start to really understand the relationship between violent domination and dominate economic models. Whatever direction they are coming from.

With that i say Peace brother. Keep up the good fight. I know you are paying attention to the escalation of war. Syria, Iran, Russia, China. Just remember that all those countries are filled with people like us, who are DOMINATED by the same economic model we are. The Good people of those countries are our allies. so PEACE!

[-] 1 points by LOVEPEACE (199) 12 years ago

Awesome! Have you thought about maintaining a list of signatures for people outside of the US?

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

I call for it!

[-] 1 points by changeislife (4) from Boston, MA 12 years ago

HOORAY for change this is exactly what we need the Jefferson madison proposal for the 11th amendment was to protect the public and not give corporations the same rights as breathing human beings. We need to have the halls of congress and the senate free of lobbyists who care only about the creation of bills that help corporations shake the nickels left in our pockets.Daily our children become human sacrifices in supposed wars for democracy too thier god money. Mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers all relitives of these fallen heros weep and ask why it's time to become aware of the truth.Let us not have our children ask us why let us ask ourselves. We must have awareness! we must have demands ! we must have change! in the name of humanity.

[-] 1 points by changeislife (4) from Boston, MA 12 years ago

HOORAY for change this is exactly what we need the Jefferson madison proposal for the 11th amendment was to protect the public and not give corporations the same rights as breathing human beings. We need to have the halls of congress and the senate free of lobbyists who care only about the creation of bills that help corporations shake the nickels left in our pockets.Daily our children become human sacrifices in supposed wars for democracy too thier god money. Mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers all relitives of these fallen heros weep and ask why it's time to become aware of the truth.Let us not have our children ask us why let us ask ourselves. We must have awareness! we must have demands ! we must have change! in the name of humanity.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Focus others on this. It it is I think the only shot we have to prove that this movement is the 99% and we mean to make a positive lasting change. check this out we have a great lawyer working on this very thing. Rally now around this unifying demand http://www.getmoneyout.com/

[-] 1 points by Febs (824) from Plymouth Meeting, PA 12 years ago

End corporate bailouts.

I think polling is going to be the closest to 99% agreement on this issue across political ideologies.

[-] 2 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

me too. time to focus on it.

[-] 1 points by thesoulgotsoldontheroadtogold (148) 12 years ago

Well, if the message in the constitution was separation of church and state, we should be calling for an amendment for the separation of business and state. That's about as succintly as I can put it... under this main demand, itemize the demands that belong under it, like: money is not free speech, corporations are not people, etc.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Like it

[-] 1 points by Gylliwynn (56) 12 years ago

If you want to bring liberals and conservatives together on this, which I think is a great goal to have, then you need to educate them a bit more on how our country got into this mess in a way that EVERYONE can understand. Please read this article that came out two days ago by an economist who articulates and offers a damn good, realistic solution to this confusion. The masses NEED to vote in the next presidential election and in order for them to be convinced we must have Obama sign a legal and binding contract stating he will repeal the nine economic measures listed in the article BEFORE the next election. Then send this out to everyone involved with OWS, even if you refuse to vote. The masses NEED to be educated about how this mess occurred so their causes can become more defined. http://www.truth-out.org/occupy-wall-street-movement-and-coming-demise-crony-capitalism/1318341474

[-] 1 points by Toddtjs (187) 12 years ago

One popular demand is... Repeal the new park rules.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

kaaaaaaaaay

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

did we wait too long?

[-] 1 points by barthw52 (41) 12 years ago

Money out of politics!!

And how does the abolishment of political parties as a whole? As I've seen things threw the last few presidential elections. No candidate has ever come close to satisfying all of the peoples needs, it has either been one half or the other of the population that got their way the rest have gotten their issues ignored because it has either been the DEMOCRATIC or REPUBLICAN thing to do. Where is the in between?

Why are there no longer political candidates that ever cover all issues? Why does one have to be purely democratic or purely republican, both being corrupt. There needs to be a real candidate that represents the whole population.

The reason there are only these two political parties in today's world; they are the two receiving money from major corporations. As I see it,once the money is out of politics, the true people that should be running this country will rise to the top and do what is right for the American people.

[-] 1 points by usaworktomuch (55) 12 years ago

If we don't stop Corporate America - there will be 1 day weekends;

NO VACATION time;

and 70-80 hour work weeks!!!!

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

:) really you gonna let that happen?

[-] 1 points by usaworktomuch (55) 12 years ago

LOL <teamok> not if I can help it! BUT!! We need to at least acknowledge that we are on a path toward this. I speak from experience - I've worked for big Corporate America business - and I know that is something they want.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

No surprise of course.

[-] 1 points by ProvidenceRhodeIsland (40) 12 years ago

Volcker Rule Now.

[-] 1 points by Markmad (323) 12 years ago

Give me liberty or . . . never mind

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

you could prevent that

[-] 1 points by Markmad (323) 12 years ago

loOord help us! :) :) :)

[-] 1 points by Vincenzo (47) 12 years ago

Money out of politics!

[-] 1 points by buffita (3) 12 years ago

CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM is the answer to all of our country's economic woes. Ask for it. Defend it to the American people. It will set us free from corporate slavery. Thank you for your dedication and love of country.

[-] 1 points by Markmad (323) 12 years ago

We are as mad as hell and we are not going to take anymore. We are human beings god damn it! :)

[-] 1 points by convertiblecaddy (89) 12 years ago

Stop all single family residential foreclosures and reduce principal to current market value for all home mortgages in U.S.A.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Temporary, no real meaningful change.

[-] 2 points by guptara1 (6) 12 years ago

The glass-Steagall act was in place for a good 60+ years and we had not a single system threatening crisis happen. Ltcm happened and the private lenders managed it, for their own interest. The problems of the last few years were largely due to re less risk taking by banks with public money, all the upside and limited downside via the implicit tax payer guarantee. That's what needs to be fixed and not innovative risk taking in the industrial/ multinational sector.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

yup. now we can even do better.

[-] 1 points by psteele (1) 12 years ago

Healthcare Reform should be the #1 Demand. Unpayable medical bills is the #1 cause of bankruptcy in this country. It is the right of every human being to be able to get affordable and quality healthcare. The US is the only civilized country in the world to deny its citizens universal healthcare.

[-] 2 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Must pull the prevent leaches before we can reorganize any spending reforms or we will only have health care for all for a short stint.

[-] 1 points by bugmagnet (30) from Boston, MA 12 years ago

i agree, if you are going to bring it down to 1 issue it has to be to get the money out of politics... otherwise we would have had single payer long ago.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

yup. suport this http://www.getmoneyout.com/

[-] 1 points by silverfang77 (17) 12 years ago

Demand an end to corporate personhood and all corporate donations to lawmakers.

[-] 1 points by CorporationNotPerson (129) 12 years ago

End corporate personhood! Agreed! This will call for an Amendment to the Constitution:

"A corporate entity, in and of itself, is not a person, therefore, is not entitled to the rights and protections afforded to a person as set forth in the Constitution of the United States of America."

[-] 1 points by smarzie (62) from Portsmouth, OH 12 years ago

No more corporate money in politics. No more corporate offshore tax havens...pay your share!

[-] 1 points by asdf46554 (26) 12 years ago

GO HOME.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Not an option

[-] 1 points by MossyOakMudslinger (106) from Frederick, MD 12 years ago

Here is a demand that we can make right now that everyone will understand:

STOP IMPOSING NEGATIVE INTEREST RATES FOR SAVERS.

Negative interest rates are killing savers and are a form aof austerity measure imposed on the citizens. Retirees poor people who can manage to save something and many others. The Fed has implemented this zero interest rate policy (ZIRP) to bail out the banks on a continual basis. What they do is provide reserves to the banks at the .25% rate and then let the banks use that money to buy treasuries from the Fed at the 3% rate. The banks can never lose on.The saver should be getting something near the higher rate but the banks give us the .25% (or less) so effectively the taxpayer and savers (most are both) are subsidizing this difference. The banks then leverage the gains from this BS story at very high ratios. So the banks get free money from the Fed and from savers and keep any gains for themselves. Savers see nothing except an effective decrease in their savings and the taxpayer in general of course see nothing.

NEGATIVE INTEREST RATES IS AN AUSTERITY MEASURE IMPOSED ON SAVERS TO SUBSIDIZE BANK BAILOUTS

[-] 1 points by Teacher (469) 12 years ago

A constitutional amendment that bans all corporate money in politics. Allow the election commission to ban campaign contributions over $1.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

I've found this petition and Law written by a great lawyer in SF. It is Just what we need. Lets rally. Here's our ONE Demand! http://www.getmoneyout.com/

[-] 1 points by normalguy (3) 12 years ago

Get the supreme court to reverse the decision that made corporations people. That did nothing more than put everything up for sale and was a direct insult to every 99%er. It would be a good first goal that I would think most everyone could get behind. The Wall Street people are only the buyers so you first need to close the store and by doing so you kill two birds with one stone. Get our people down to the supreme court because that's who really shafted us. Get that decision reversed !

[-] 1 points by Glenn1894 (6) 12 years ago

I agree, Elections/Financing reform is key. But I think tax reform and corporate responsibility reform (read $$$ panelty for misbehavior) are also essential.

I have summed these up elsewhere in the blog as a slogan "Fairness for All"

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

I like it. I think Law (corp rights reform ) before tax. Let's be sure the money we get goes to handlers that serve us before we collect it.

[-] 1 points by FreedomInFlorida (1) 12 years ago

Between needing one demand and getting their attention, you need leverage. Our money = their power. We need to convince as many people as possible to take their money out of the bank. Once we control our own money again, they will really pay attention, and we will have the leverage we need to make a difference.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Yes yes yes. In the streets, at home, at work. We are the leverage all the time economic and political. Leverage and good law on crop rights. Unite behind it and millions will join in. Unstoppable! Crosses party lines and we need that bad they have divided us. Our one demand must unite the whole 99%

[-] 1 points by oclisa (74) 12 years ago

Simple: Get money out of politics! www.getmoneyout.com

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Just found it Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssss!

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 12 years ago

We desperately need independent oversight and corporate regulation ( prior to Reagan admin). Every government faction is infected with corporate money. Our health, the health of the environment, the safety and quality of our food, air and water, the quality and ethics of healthcare/medicines are all dictated by corporations leaving us always having to choose or tolerate the lesser of evils as consumers. I am tired of being manipulated by corporations, tired of being forced to use my credit cards when I would rather not simply because I must maintain a FICO score and keep my accounts active while they rake in interest that I cannot afford to pay. i'm tired of being forced to buy things like cable TV in order to watch the news for one hour a day. I'm tired of wasting money on cheap, unsafe, disposable goods and services from outsourced manufacturers, I'm tired of being bullied by banks and receiving less than adequate healthcare by greedy doctors who are educated in curriculums funded by drug and insurance companies, I'm tired of " bad science" due to corporate influence. Read this most recent letter by Wendell Potter ( whistle blower of the healthcare industry): http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/occupy-wall-street-should-protest-wall-street-takeover-health-care-insurers-big-lobbying-group It seems to me that all the issues point to one thing: Corporate Greed that has been allowed to escalate due to the unholy alliance between corporate america and government. By severing the cozy relationships between corps and our leaders, much would change. It's utterly ridiculous that a politician needs millions of dollars to campaign. Money in lieu of brains? This is why we are what we are today and why we elect money, not a person's character to run the country. We all need to pull our money out of the banks, refuse to vote, refuse to pay taxes until changes are made to protect us from unnecessary and abusive business practicesAND those who recklessly toyed and destroyed our economy are held accountable and punished accordingly.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Your complaints and analysis is solid. No one needs convincing of your problems or the legitimacy of our grievances. We need agreement on HOW and to unify around it very soon or risk a scattering co-op and dissolve of the potent force we have now.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 12 years ago

I am not asking for validation of my problems- just illustrating how so many issues point to one larger issue- deregulation.
If for any reason this occupation is dissolved at this site, protesters can still unify in smaller groups around the city and specifically send messages encouraging people to quit paying income taxes( which is illegal via the constitution anyway), pull their money out of banks, quit making purchases at stores that contribute to unfair trade practices, cancel health insurance policies, etc... We command with our spending practices/consumer behavior in this country. The problem has been allowed to escalate because Americans have been so brainwashed and manipulated for years to believe that this country is righteous, forthcoming, transparent and that our government is the best in the world. Americans were also deliberately medicated into complacency and apathy for the last 10 years. Americans feel powerless to make change, they have been so dumbed down by mindless media, sensationalized news and medications that they believe that no matter how bad their circumstances are, that they are still better off living here than anywhere else in the world and that in time things will improve. Americans blindly believe in anyone with more ' power' than they have simply because it's easier to do that than to realize how truly corrupt their country is and sit by and do nothing while their conscience eats them alive. Messages must be sent with clarity and the purpose of planting seeds that cause people to question authority. Many of those seeds will take root. Be persistent and patient. If you must organize in smaller groups on every single street corner, rotating in shifts, then do so. 100 activists in front of Wells Fargo every day might just be as effective as thousands in a park. Maybe I'm wrong but at this moment I cannot think of anything better to do in order to keep your messages out there. Let's say that a group of activists were in front of the healthcare lobbying headquarters.....you could hold up signs that specifically relate to their unethical business practices and how it affects every American. Another group in front of a bank could hold up signs that display the specific crimes they have committed. I suppose you would become America's watchdogs, keeping these corps and lobbyists aware of you/us and sending the message that we are aware of them and their behavior. Organize in front of grocery stores, gas stations, wherever anyone can be influenced. Religious cults have operated this way for years and been very successful...time share companies have also employed the same tactics and succeeded...so why not you? The difference is that you are one very large group of folks with the same message across the country. Most grassroots organizations are not as effective today because they are not represented on every street corner.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

now your talking solutions. I'm in. we need a web page with the tex for posible signage for each front so people can just print them up.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 12 years ago

Can you make a web page? I'll certainly try my best to relay stats, info and other info to you. Write me privately if you need to. The news media is shameful and they are NOT on our side. They are diminishing the importance of this effort.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Agree. i don't have those skills but Im sure there are many who do who will help. You should choose some fronts(bank, insurance, food ...what ever you see as a target) and come up with sign text and post it in this forum asking for that kind of help.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 12 years ago

I'll come up with some info and pass it along. Hopefully, someone will see it. Are the OWSers being receptive now to making specific demands?
I hope so because I don't think I can bear to hear anymore about Michael Jackson's death trial.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 12 years ago

I understand. The problems are too many and it's a bit overwhelming. You're right though it's time to make a concerted move toward organizing an agenda. If you're there, why not try to organize smaller more agenda-specific groups. Talk to folks and ask them to be specific about what they believe needs to be changed and how THEY would go about demanding it. Start there. Then you can organize those comments into groups that work more intimately on the issue. then contact people who can help you who are experts in the areas that need to be reformed. For example,...Wendell Potter for Insurance and healthcare reform, the Alliance for Natural Health is also a very proactive group here in the US as well as the UK and may also provide assistance. There are others out there to be found and I'm more than willing to help be a resourceful researcher for you. I've already contacted a few groups for some assistance. So, I'll keep you posted. Stay in touch, don't lose your patience but do try to talk to as many folks as possible - even those who are just observers.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

There seems to be a lot of folk high on wielding the power of the people here but are clueless as to what to do with it. The complaints are well developed. Looks a lot like a venting fo pressure to prepare for something in the works or a gauging of opposition and a refracting and co-opting of cause. The mantra is no cause but disruption. Which I'm ok with but it won't solve a thing.

[-] 1 points by Riott (44) 12 years ago

Money out of politics. Bye bye lobbyists. Most of all, corporations need to be held accountable for their hand in this economic disaster to include banks and wall street and whoever else has abused the system financially.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Yup but the law is the key to stopping it from happening again. Here's the Law from a great lawyer. http://www.getmoneyout.com/

[-] 1 points by medievalambient (8) 12 years ago

We can't just have one demand. There are countless problems with the government. The only solution is to tear it all down. We must either (and this would be my choice) eliminate all government in the US altogether, or create a new government ourselves. We're the people. We are what this country is about. Not the bullying government.

[-] 1 points by medievalambient (8) 12 years ago

We can't just have one demand. There are countless problems with the government. The only solution is to tear it all down. We must either (and this would be my choice) eliminate all government in the US altogether, or create a new government ourselves. We're the people. We are what this country is about. Not the bullying government.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

The law creates the gov. New people won't do it. I don't want to destroy all the good work already done. you won't get backing for it. It may be your wish and is justified but won't fly. Lets fix the law and who has the power to interpret it into regulation.

[-] 1 points by MadMavenNYC (26) 12 years ago

Take Back DC - Eliminate the Federal Reserve's control of our government!

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

We all know what we want. First strong step and how?

[-] 1 points by fathrbrodie (2) from Lincoln, IL 12 years ago

The first and most rational demand would be to get money out of Washington now. It is the root of the problem in this country and it is the first step to a more fair economic situation.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Here here. You got it. It is the one thing we have in common with the Tea folk and the rest of the america. it is a 99% want. If we make it a singular push they will join us. It is one of their primary beefs as well. The best thing is it isn't complicated to right/ write the law for it.

[-] 1 points by fathrbrodie (2) from Lincoln, IL 12 years ago

The process has already started. Pass this on to anyone and everyone. The quicker it gets to 1 MILLION signatures they are taking it to the House.

http://www.getmoneyout.com/

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Love it! I know him. Thanks for the point:)

[-] 1 points by oceanweed (521) 12 years ago

ows from start has been democratic and all republicans do nothing but demonize the movement read the signs listen to the people and see tax rich get money out of politics end wars have never been backed by republicans tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the occupy wall street message

[-] 1 points by jmcdarcy (158) 12 years ago

I have five VERY particular demands that we can all lobby for that many Americans if not a majority should agree on.

1) We are for reversing the Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission decision by the supreme court which states that the First Amendment protects corporate and union funding of independent political broadcasts in candidate elections.

2) We are for a massive expansion of criminal investigations and prosecutions with regards to felonies committed leading up to, during, and after the financial meltdown of 2008. If this requires more FBI agents, we need to hire more. If this requires special judges appointed to hear the cases, we need to appoint them. And we want it done in a timely fashion so that the rule of law may reign again in this country.

3) We are for massive reform in the election process and campaign finance laws such that it will be made illegal for any corporate entity, business, or union to contribute to any political campaign. Such that limits are put on the dollar amount which is legal to contribute to any campaign from any individual.

4) We are for regulation of the financial sector to eliminate predatory lending practices, to reduce the roll in the GDP which complex financial products such as derivatives play, and to break up the largest banks so that they are no longer "too big to fail"

5) We are for a reevaluation of the role that the Federal Reserve plays in our economy. This may include placing more restrictions on actions the Fed is able to do, requiring its actions to be more transparent, or severing the tie between the fed and federally sponsored companies such as Ginnie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Fannie Mae, severing the tie between the Federal reserve and the federal government (eliminating it), or making it a public agency which is accountable only the US government and the people of the United States.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Don't disagree with any of those. The power a focus on one now is what i think is needed but any one of those could work. I would like to see a permanent structural change. Your #3 clearly written would work for me.

[-] 1 points by jmcdarcy (158) 12 years ago

OR: We are asking for a reversal of the Supreme Court's decision in the Citizen's United case and for the ratification of a constitutional amendment which would make it illegal for corporations, businesses and workers unions to make contributions to political election campaigns.

[-] 1 points by jmcdarcy (158) 12 years ago

We are for changing the Citizens United Decision and making it illegal for corporations, businesses and workers unions to make contributions to political election campaigns.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Yup that's it. One thing and say it with resolve.

[-] 1 points by jmcdarcy (158) 12 years ago

I actually like the one I posted after this the best. Take it and run with it if you like!

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago
[-] 1 points by jmcdarcy (158) 12 years ago

We are for massive election campaign finance reform such that the following changes take effect: 1) The Supreme Court ruling on Citizens United is overturned. 2) It is made illegal for any corporate entity, business, or workers union to make contributions to any political campaign and that the similar donations of individuals, if they so choose to contribute, will be subject to a predetermined limit.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Jefferson called it the no monopolies in commerce amendment. Your post is nearly dead on its intent

[-] 1 points by evilemprzurg (1) from Simi Valley, CA 12 years ago

I suggest we set a date, and signify it "Rob the Bank" day.

On one day we should all, in unison, transfer all money that we have in the major banks, (Chase, BofA, etc.), and open accounts in your local credit union. They can't continue to take advantage of their customer base, if they have no customer base.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Nov 5th done!

[-] 1 points by Riott (44) 12 years ago

Lobbyists need to go very quickly.

[-] 1 points by JoblessBrigade (34) from New York, NY 12 years ago

Great idea teamok. Limit the monopolies. I guess the original anti-trust laws don't even get looked at anymore.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Not monopolies Corp. rights. State charters granted for the common good reviewed periodically. No person-hood. No legal shield for harmful practices. etc. Like that.

[-] 1 points by JoblessBrigade (34) from New York, NY 12 years ago

I agree. You got it right.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

We have to collectively come to consensus on this fast or lose our fire to too many issues. Help to focus on the law. It is what creates the kind of gov we have and the kind we want. It (law) constructs the relationship it has with corp money or any money for that matter.

[-] 1 points by Hlengwa (1) 12 years ago

Hi! Just recently joined. I am not well vast with all the dynamics. I am a South African. I live in a rural town called Nongoma. With regards to the topic at hand- "We need one popular rational demand"- my suggestion is that we call for an all inclusive, all stakeholder USA Global Recession Council. A structure that will have power/authority to come up with solutions to this challege. Not just an advisory structure. We the 99% must have greater representation. All these suggestions we have, be put foward as solutions.

[-] 1 points by JeffBlock2012 (272) 12 years ago

not that I personally agree with this, but it IS a popular rational (but "rational" is in the eyes of the beholder) demand:

REVERSE Citizens United versus FEC

I agree with you, a demand has to be specific (something like "take money out of politics" is not a specific demand), and while protesters forcing the Supreme Court to reverse a ruling is not quite "rational", at least it's something the population and the media can get behind.

http://www.JeffBlock2012.com We Have Permission to Change the System

[-] 1 points by MPathy (2) 12 years ago

One poular demand NOW could be: The 'H.R. 2990: National Emergency Employment Defense Act of 2011' Bill which appears to be a major step in correcting the financial problems forced on the 99% by The Federal Reserve Bank and Wall Street. It is not the ultimate answer for the 99% (whose decision may be to abolish money completely, or ban Usury [the lending of money with interest] completely). However, it is now before Congress for ratification. If passed, it should be able to be implemented quickly, and buy time to formulate a more complete solution.

Lobby your Congressmen and let them know that YOU want this passed!

I believe that if implemented in the US, other countries would follow suit, and even agree to band together to share the same monetary system. In fact the whole world needs to have the same money, because all countries are now interconnected and all have the same 99%, with the same problems in common. Having the same money the World over would eliminate “exchange rates” and their associated costs.

To quote the Bill: “(b) Purposes- The purposes of this Act are as follows:

(1) To create a Monetary Authority which shall pursue a monetary policy based on the governing principle that the supply of money in circulation should not become inflationary nor deflationary in and of itself, but will be sufficient to allow goods and services to move freely in trade in a balanced manner. The Monetary Authority shall maintain long run growth of the monetary and credit aggregates commensurate with the economy’s long run potential to increase production, so as to promote effectively the goals of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates.

(2) To create a full employment economy as a matter of national economic defense; to provide for public investment in capital infrastructure; to provide for reducing the cost of public investment; to retire public debt; to stabilize the Social Security retirement system; to restore the authority of Congress to create and regulate money, to modernize and provide stability for the monetary system of the United States, and for other public purposes.

(3) To abolish the creation of money, or purchasing power, by private persons through lending against deposits, by means of fractional reserve banking, or by any other means.

(4) To enable the Federal Government to invest or lend new money into circulation as authorized by Congress and to provide means for public investment in capital infrastructure.

(5) To incorporate the Federal Reserve System into the Executive Branch under the United States Treasury, and to make other provisions for reorganization of the Federal Reserve System.

(6) To provide for an orderly transition.

(7) To make other provisions necessary to accomplish the purposes of this Act.”

Please read and discuss this Bill with friends and workmates, The complete text can be found at:

www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h112-2990

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

This is not one or simple

[-] 1 points by mrtaylor (17) 12 years ago

What about a National television boycott the week of Thanksgiving? You could cut off political campaigning, hurt corporations, and help the environment all at once. This would send a message as to who's really in control and who really drives the market at the end of the day. You have the power to get this off the ground, consider it.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

These are things that hurt them back but don't take away the club they are beating us with. It is law we need and here it is http://www.getmoneyout.com/

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

Not a bad idea, but mislocated on the TV. Boycott all Thanksgiving and Christmas purchases/contributions that are not for food. No TV needed. Big OUCH and timely message to corporations and media.

[-] 1 points by mrtaylor (17) 12 years ago

Love it, just the threat alone would be huge

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

If that was connected to a demand for an Article V, then continues to specific corporate products, a lot more than threat will be known. It is possible that corporations would break rank just to survive.

[-] 1 points by mrtaylor (17) 12 years ago

This is why at the end of the people really do have the power. The only entities that exist are the ones we give are money and attention to. If we turn off the TV and stop buying products we don't need or like then only the stuff we do like survies. I wonder if poeple stopped going to college the cost would magically come down? The cost of health care is where they kinda have us though. That would be one thing virtually impossible to boycott. You get sick, you gotta get help.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

Mostly true. There is an aspect that seems to becomeing more obvious which is not that way.-------

IF the gov infiltrations pushes the economy over the edge, and all signs are that they are doing that, THEN, when we get sick we die because the medical systems cannot survive and be available to the public generally. If the infiltrators are positioned to provide public health care, actually cared about humans, they wouldn't have allowed the military industrial complex to destory the economy by creating and excuse for war with 9-11. Ummmmm, 9-11 itself shows how much they care about life. Therein we see that Article V of the US constitution is the only answer.

[-] 1 points by mrtaylor (17) 12 years ago

Yes and a great nation should not allow the basic necessities such as eduction and health be compromised by a free market. The free market can and always will take advantage because these are necessities. No one should have to pay for these services on credit with interest or pay a middle man who profits off the odds. I'm all for self reliance but our current system is unreasonable and getting close to impossible.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

Good basic position, you have "spokes-man-like" moderation that works with needed alternative insight and correctness (political and otherwise)!-------

I see one out for America. Use itself for itself with the same kind of cognitive distortion that was used over and over to mislead it so bad, the people could be said to be damaged in their ability to act together upon their own interests of survival. Emotional reasoning a bonafied cognitive distortion. Instead of letting corporations, special interests etc, government push our buttons with it for THEIR purposes, we push each others buttons for our purposes:)--------

Are you with me?

[-] 1 points by KellyJacobs (13) from Seagoville, TX 12 years ago

Open government by way of equal airtime to all candidates!

This ought to apply to all parties, all platforms. Of course this will not happen because the rich own the government, we have no true power within the system as it stands.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

We need solutions. Here it is Jefferson's intent : http://www.getmoneyout.com/

[-] 1 points by PeoplehaveDNA (305) 12 years ago

The biggest demand that I can see that will bring together all parties across all lines is end all money in politics. I am telling you you will get a large backing on this subject. I personally say get all corporate and union money out of politics all together. But I am going to have to say that their are a lot of juicy demands out their as well. There is way too much that needs to be covered no one understands this.

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 12 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU&feature=relmfu

Audit the Fed. That's one and will fix much.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

I think we might just find more problems there with no solutions enacted. We don't need more proof things suck and we need convince anyone how bad it is we all know. Lets focus on one real fix first then we can investigate old crimes.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Most Americans don’t know it but Thomas Jefferson, along with James Madison worked assiduously to have an 11th Amendment included into our nation’s original Bill of Rights. This proposed Amendment would have prohibited “monopolies in commerce.” The amendment would have made it illegal for corporations to own other corporations, or to give money to politicians, or to otherwise try to influence elections. Corporations would be chartered by the states for the primary purpose of “serving the public good.” Corporations would possess the legal status not of natural persons but rather of “artificial persons.” This means that they would have only those legal attributes which the state saw fit to grant to them. They would NOT; and indeed could NOT possess the same bundle of rights which actual flesh and blood persons enjoy. Under this proposed amendment neither the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution, nor any provision of that document would protect the artificial entities known of as corporations. From:http://think4yourself.tumblr.com/post/2147641788/ataxiwardance-jeffersons-11th-failed-amendment

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

teamok , valuable proposal with lots of ties to historical law that can be implimented at an Article V convention to justify amendment constituting the intent of what you describe. I encourage you to draft an amendment, or draft a revision to an amendment and to determine which other constitutional aspects are invoked or have related influence. If you can, organize and upload a simple web page with all the authorities and history below the draft, post it widely so citizens are aware of it.

[-] 1 points by HillTop (2) from Los Gatos, CA 12 years ago

You don't need an article V convention, you need a fairly simple constitutional amendment.

How about the following concept as the basis for such an amendment: The rights and protections granted by the constitution apply ONLY to individuals, and not to any entities created by law. As a result, any protections granted to corporations (or unions), can only be granted by statute, and thus may revoked by statute.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

I just found Lessig beat me to it. Besides I'm no lawyer just a common citizen for real structural change. He needs to use Jefferson's support in the PR for it. http://www.getmoneyout.com/

[-] 1 points by rivalarrival (21) 12 years ago

Corporations don't possess the same bundle of rights as natural persons. Corporations can't petition to become citizens, can't vote. They can be transferred as property. Their "personhood" status is a remnant of common law. This status was forced upon them because without it, they were effectively immune to legal liability for their actions. "Corporations are people too" is nothing but the old razzle dazzle, distracting us from the real problem, which is that ultra-rich businessmen are running the nation and robbing us blind.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Forced no. The court decision that cemented it involved railroads and the supreme court justice was a former exec of the railroads. He ruled they have almost all the same rights as the individual. Look up the lamenting of Jefferson about it. They rob us through the loop hole in poorly interpreted law. It allows them to buy our gov. Lets make it clear NO money in gov by writing the law very clear.

[-] 1 points by rivalarrival (21) 12 years ago

REGARDLESS of their status, their business practices cause widespread economic damage. They have been robbing us blind since the 1970s, and people are busy running around complaining about corporate personhood and central banks and campaign finance and...

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

easy those are very good things to talk about. solution focus

[-] 1 points by socratease (11) from Wurtsboro, NY 12 years ago

It seems that the first issue will the statement to the major banks on Nov 5th. It might be good to focus on that first.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

That takes some power but leaves their person-hood rights intact. Hardly a solution for the root problem.

[-] 1 points by rivalarrival (21) 12 years ago

I've yet to find the Jefferson-Madison 11th Amendment (I've only spent a couple minutes looking) so I can't support it at this time, but if you're looking for a popular, rational demand, I've got one for you:

Prohibit businesses from increasing the poverty rate through their hiring practices.

One of the biggest problems is the disparity of wealth in the US. 1% of the population holds nearly 50% of the wealth; a number that has been steadily rising since the 1970s. 50% of the population owns currently only 2.5% of the wealth. That number has been steadily dropping since the 1970s. A lot of the profits collected by the 1% have come from robbing the rest of us, paying us less than the value of our work and charging us greater than the value of their products.

They've been siphoning our wealth into their own pockets. It has to stop. Communism isn't an answer; forced redistribution of wealth is less than an ideal answer. Minimum wage hikes are not an answer (they drive inflation) and generic "living wage" proposals are nothing more than extremely high minimum wage laws.

What I propose is that businesses be required to meet or beat poverty rates in their hiring. If the regional poverty rate is 10%, every business in that region will be required to pay at least 90% of their employees at or above the poverty level.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

It would strip corp person-hood. Not sure you could sell that to much of america even if it made things better. They hate mandates.

[-] 1 points by CorporationNotPerson (129) 12 years ago

End corporate personhood! Agreed! This will call for an Amendment to the Constitution:

"A corporate entity, in and of itself, is not a person, therefore, is not entitled to the rights and protections afforded to a person as set forth in the Constitution of the United States of America."

[-] 1 points by rivalarrival (21) 12 years ago

Yeah, I've read that a couple dozen times, but I've yet to read the text of the amendment you're asking us to support.

Corporate Personhood is the legal fiction that allows for the application of law to something other than natural persons. Corporate personhood does not convey the same bundle of rights as natural personhood. Earlier this year, the supreme court ruled against AT&T on a claim that corporate personhood granted them certain privacy rights.

Without the concept of corporate personhood, corporations would be able to dodge lawsuits and liability claims simply by changing CEOs.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

I can't find the text either. It is eluded to by many historian and in Jefferson's letters but I can't find the proposed amendment its self. The 4th of the proposed bill of right by Virginia is as close as I've got and it is not salable langue but could be used as a base from which to reference for a new doc with current langue that is equivalent. Where would we find It. It can't just disappear. Maybe Virginia's is all we have along with the letters to Madison that express his concerns and intents.

[-] 1 points by rivalarrival (21) 12 years ago

So, you ARE asking us to support an idea in a box, without letting us look inside first.

How about you come up with a proposal first, THEN ask for support? I'd probably then be able to lend my support to a reasonable, rational amendment limiting the political power of corporations.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago
[-] 1 points by mancanbemore (30) 12 years ago

Here is away we can unite the voices who agree in dissatisfaction but disagree in the methods of handling it http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-radical-moderate-party/

[-] 1 points by cklau (10) 12 years ago

I proposed that we ask the federal bank to stop manipulate the dollars so that it's not artificially high as compared to Chinese Yuan and therefore manufacturing jobs can be return to the American people.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Ask? Please massa don't be messing wit my dough. A Real salable solution.

[-] 1 points by Shule (2638) 12 years ago

I'm not so sure we really need a demand, or a clear list of demands, or present a clear focus on anything. OWS power exists in creating confusion, tension, and disruption amongst those ruling. So long as those in power can't figure out what is going on with OWS, they'll stumble all over themselves, and bring themselves down. The more we can mess up their modus operandi in any and every way possible the better. So, bring on those endlessly changing lists. (Actually, the one fundamental existing in every demand stated so far should be obvious to anyone with a lick of sense; that is for Wall Street to quit being assholes, but let Wall Street figure that out.)

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

This will fizzle out if not stoked with substance. Wall street is not scared they own our reps. We are not disrupting much. Once we talk solution with a unified voice it will cause the millions waiting to hear something real to joint in then we will disrupt but you need a real solution you can demand before you get full popular support. This is protest 101 stuff.

[-] 1 points by AndrewBWilliams (52) 12 years ago

I suggest what they are doing in Occupy Seattle. The demands are posted on the web page and people can vote for them and make comments. It is a good way to decide what is the most important demand and focus attention. Check out which ones are leading the vote count. Perhaps Wall Street can do the same thing??

[-] 1 points by machiglabdron (4) 12 years ago

Yes, money out of politics...clean up the budget to prioritize the needs of the people (not to fill the pockets of wall street and war lords instead taxes go towards quality education, health care, non chemical water sanitation methods etc)

[-] 1 points by machiglabdron (4) 12 years ago

Yes, money out of politics...clean up the budget to prioritize the needs of the people (not to fill the pockets of wall street and war lords instead taxes go towards quality education, health care, non chemical water sanitation methods etc)

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Methods of application to that end. How? It is our job to fix they won't.

[-] 1 points by smate1 (72) 12 years ago

How about a unifying visual like a hippie and a Jew jointly holding a sign saying No more $ in Elections! Insert whoever you like but we need to unify and focus on 1 demand while we have this chance.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

nice joke

[-] 1 points by jastb1 (5) from Little Rock, AR 12 years ago

If you want jobs for America, demand tarrifs on any imported products and penalize any company who outsources labor. Pay your fair share for goods and services and eventaully all Americans will have jobs and we can be clear of all debt. Then you can see real change as a strong America. It might hurt at first but not nearly as bad as it will cripple those who are pulling the American dream right out from under the working class.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Won't fly (unAmerican the free trade thing) and not structural or permanent. A stop gap that hurts us as those goods prices would skyrocket and we need them. A manufacturing sector doesn't pop out of nowhere.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

A clear easy to understand reasonable single demand. If the demand isn't met all stops until it is. We can't ask or reason for it. We know why we want what we want and don't need to convince them of anything accept that we are peaceful, uncompromising and united. Power is in people.

[-] 1 points by Ptaray (2) 12 years ago

Americans should be going postal... Save the US POSTAL SERVICE

[-] 1 points by Ptaray (2) 12 years ago

Americans should be going postal... Save the US POSTAL SERVICE

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Not a fix just saves a department.

[-] 1 points by Dost (315) 12 years ago

This is an excellent post. I just read a summary and it seems like a decent starting point. The reference of Jefferson-Madison resonates with people since they were both Presidents and Founding Fathers. I do think there is a very strong argument for Raising taxes and using it to fund Jobs. This alternative is simpler and has great appeal amongst most of the population I believe. The 11th Amendment proposal is more complicated (at least harder to digest for many) and people will not understand all of it and its implications. It will be more easily attacked (I think) and a lot of energy could be drained trying to see it adopted. Besides, the amendment process is very difficult unless Congress passes it. And those people will never support this. So, I would have to argue for Raising Taxes on the Wealthy to Fund Jobs. Everyone understands it and the need to do so.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Taxes go where? To war mostly. It is a temporary fix and leaves the fox in the hen house. People can understand stripping corp person-hood easily. If we unite congress will be forced to act. Scared is not an option. Million would join if we had One Demand they already know and or forefathers knew too.

[-] 1 points by Dost (315) 12 years ago

Okay, look, here's the thing. When I think of Action, I think of what is involved. Focusing on raising taxes as an issue already has wide support. People are hurting and need jobs. This is an immediate need. If you want to focus on one Demand, either Ending Corruption (as another post has suggested) or the 11th Amendment, fine. But to pass an Amendment is a long-range, very challenging task. You are thinking very long range. You are familiar with Article 5 of the Constitution, I assume? I recently reviewed it (I was a history teacher) and it is a daunting task. I believe such an Amendment could only be passed if things get really bad and you can create support for it. I do believe you will have a hard time getting enough people to focus on it. My opinion of course but I generally have a good handle on the practical and being realistic.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Understand your concerns. Some want a patch. The worse it get the more pressure can be applied. They gave away 6 trillion over night. War overnight. If we unite with one demand that is rational I think It could be done. I want real change or forefather never intended for the crops to be a person in the eyes of the law. Fix it and we get the house not a seat at the table.

[-] 1 points by Dost (315) 12 years ago

Let me ask you something. Have you ever done any organizing? You are sounding amazingly naive, I must say. In theory you may be correct. But politics is the art of what is possible. Before you respond further, outline your approach to achieving this goal. You need to do the hard thought work of thinking this through before you can speak with such conviction.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Are you going to tell me we have real hope in the possible? So far I see people in the streets mad and with good reason but with no demands. We aren't selling vacuums here or putting on a discovery forum. People know it's bad. They will flood the streets if given a real rational solution to one major persistent problem. Limit corp power. No door to door town or town hall meetings needed. We all know it's a problem. They were never intended to have them. You really think there's no case here?Naive yes but ideas are contagious and speaking with conviction is my right. Jefferson was no jerk, people know that. They respect him. He saw this coming and had the solution. Outrageous for me to suggest? really? The idea of one demand is occupy protest 101. If we demand it we will likely get a watered down corp rights restriction like overturning a ruling kind of thing that we would never get pointing to a thousand cuts or with a list after the fire is gone.

[-] 1 points by Dost (315) 12 years ago

You are still talking abstractly. Just how to you presume to make the change? You believe Congress is going to support this? Are you familiar with the Amendment process to the Constitution. What is your plan of action. Sorry, yelling and screaming will not get you want you want. A million person march on Washington, a Shut Down the Govt. might get the Bosses to take you seriously but they will simply end up doing nothing, just outwaiting you. They don't give a shit. They will wait you out. The bottom line is you need a Program and Organization, Leaders and a Process.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Understood and excellent advice. For me it is question of what is needed. Solution. There is a fault in the system that the architects recognized just as our foundation was set. When the 14th was used to create corp. person-hood we lost the promise of self rule. Isn't that what this is about? Should we shy away because the price for repair is high? This is a structural issue and by definition is hard to change but that doesn't mean a try is not worth it. They will wait it all out. If this is the first time in a flurry of demonstration with this at it's core it is a start.Our cause will be seen and understood clearly. We go home and come back. That is how it has always worked. A real demand that won't go away for IT IS THE IDEA THAT PERSISTS in the minds and hearts of the citizen. We carry it to work at home and in the streets. No more patches lets work for something real.

[-] 1 points by whit537 (7) 12 years ago

Love is our one demand.

"What I want from my society is love. I want to walk into any neighborhood in the world without fear. I want to know that everyone is cared for. I want to trust that people in leadership are fit for it. I want love to be normal."

http://blag.whit537.org/2011/10/occupation.html

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

whit537, If that is what you want, then maybe you can see as well as I do that a thing called the, "Greater Meaning of Free Speech", which is an understanding that can be made from practicing free speech. From the understanding can come; forgiveness, tolerance, acceptance, respect, trust, friendship and love, protecting life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, can be something fundamental that Americans can unify around for control of an Article V convention.------------

It predates the Declaration of Independence which plagiarized part of it, then the framers of the constitution later eviscerated the title for the first amendments, "Free Speech".

[-] 1 points by whit537 (7) 12 years ago

Occupation is not protest. Occupation is something bigger, deeper. Protest is short-term, occupation is long-term. Occupation is spiritual. Love is our one demand. Meet in the park and practice free speech. All of us, regularly, with our neighbors. Build a new social fabric from the ground up.

[-] 2 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

The best society is built from the ground up with the fabric of love and understanding.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Love can't flourish when the greedy own our ability to self govern. Strip corp rights with the 11th amendment. You can't demand love but you can demand the 11th. We need a structural change.

[-] 1 points by whit537 (7) 12 years ago

I can self-govern with my immediate neighbors. That's where it starts. Structural change starts at the bottom, not the top.

[-] 2 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Meanwhile banks and corps spend our taxes on war and crony deals and claim there's none left. Of course we self govern locally. We must decide in our selves we want to limit corps right agree nationally and do it. I'm aware it's hard to get there but that is what is needed.

[-] 1 points by 8472ofborg (100) from Bruce, SD 12 years ago

How about every politician take a vow of poverty. If you want the highest office in the nation, you will be the poorest man in the nation.

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 12 years ago

It could very well become yet another ritualistic display if we don't follow a comprehensive strategy, and related candidate, that implements all our demands at the same time, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:

http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures

Join

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/

if you want to be 1 of 100,000 people needed to support a Presidential Candidate – such as myself – at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

One meaningful demand. strip corp person-hood and it is revolutionary all by it's self. Then the gov and courts are free limit their power just a Jefferson intended.

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 12 years ago

That's a great one, and I'd put it at the top of my list too, but we need to become the "new" bank-owner-voters first in order to have the power to do it. I hope you will join the group at http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/ too, for every person added is more powerful than the last person added.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Don't want to own the central bank yet. First own the peoples house and court then the bank. simple and viable crosses all political lines.

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 12 years ago

The bank already owns the house and court, for it was their money which elected them and prohibited challengers through the media which they also own. If you don't own the banks, then you don't own 10 times more capital as a bank owner-voters like they do. Remember that 40% of Corporate Profits are Bank Profits, and thus give them 40% control, which control you must have in order to accomplish anything, for the entire system revolves around banking.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Agreed on all. Remove corp. rights and they can't buy our reps. If they are irresponsible their ceo's become liable directly no hiding behind corp person. Once we can hold somewhat clean elections free of corp debt thing will change for the better.

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 12 years ago

For that reason, I hope you will join our group of 11 at http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/ too, for every person added is more powerful than the last person added.

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 12 years ago

And it doesn't end there. Costs (or your workload) can be lowered by 75% today, but only with productivity improvements that result in 75% lower prices. For example, the 99%, as Home Town Banks of 65,000 Members, can divide themselves into 16,384 Vehicle Investment Groups of 4 Members, with each group of 4 Members purchasing a hybrid-diesel-hummer-limo Cab which they then put into their Town Cab Fleet of 16,384 Cabs. Why? Because this would reduce their Individual Transportation Costs by 75% (Cost of 1 Cab / 4 Members = 75% less cost per member), and yet they would have a Luxury Limo Cab available to them, out of 16,000 cabs in their Town, five minutes after calling for one, but not necessarily the specific luxury cab they own 25% of. This 75% reduction in Individual Transportation Costs -- for everyone -- reduces transportation prices by 75%, and thus money, by 75% (and let's not forget the lessening of Mother Nature's burden from having 75% fewer cars with no traffic jams). Furthermore, the list of simple productivity improvements like this one -- which the 99% want but the 1% don't want -- are endless. But first, the 99% must control the banks before they can control their Town (and National) design in this manner which is less costly (in terms of the worker hours to maintain it by 75% too) and yet have 75% greater luxury (such as a limo cab) at the same time. Consequently, to decentralize banking into a Direct Democracy is to lower cost 75% is to lower price 75% is to lower the existence of money by 75%, and eventually, to lower prices to near zero through automation, nanotechnology, etc, but ONLY as bank owner-voters.

[-] 1 points by 8472ofborg (100) from Bruce, SD 12 years ago

One message for everybody to get behind. I have one.

We all need to take care of each other. The government is the employment of us as a nation, it should not allow others to exploit a persons most basic needs for personal gain or profit.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

We need a demand that is simple a structural change. No more business as usual. once we limit the corp our gov. is our to steer not theirs. we fix the rest after we strip them of their unintended rights.

[-] 1 points by Mai (2) 12 years ago

...world peace will only come when the earth is communicated with peacefully.

[-] 1 points by Shule (2638) 12 years ago

Hate to tell you this, but history has proven, change only comes with a molotov cocktail. Not suggesting to throw one, but am suggesting to be ready to throw one when they come to get you. Peace.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

rulers don't give up power to peaceful speech. We peacefully demand. uncompromisingly united. strip corp rights they should never have got. The 11th amendment does just that. One demand.

[-] 1 points by Mai (2) 12 years ago

We need to demand that the severe injustices to the Earth be recognized by everyone. And that everyone over time must personally work on a material (and non-material) apology by transforming a piece of Land into a literal paradise.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Yes but first we need to fix corp power in our gov. Then the house is our to lead.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Come on people. Unity is the 99% lets make real change. structural change. Limit corp rights with Jefferson's pre-written existing bill. One demand. If we get it or country will be forever changed for the better. The possibility of self rule returns. Money's power is removed from our government in a meaningful way. This is the architects lost drawing that shores up the peoples house. One Demand.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

I'm sure Jeffersons bill would see ratification at an article V convention. In fact it might be the only one that could properly open the door to such effects with the states because it is from so deep in our history.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

agreed

[-] 1 points by Oceanwave (3) 12 years ago

This is a VERY important comment on the site! Spoil the champagne that they sip on the balcony!

This fledgling movement, is so full of promise, but has already been infiltrated and badly compromised by those who, either deliberately or through lack of experience, end up "muddying the waters" and confusing people.

The fact that Obama has already said he "understands" the movement is immediately suspicious. He hides behind democratic "cover" but he is just as much pro-corporations and pro-bankers as Bush Jr ... if not more!

No party fights for the people. Learn why the LEFT and the RIGHT are both just two heads of the same beast that we all want to see "de-fanged".

In order though to have any "Hope" of any REAL and LASTING "Change" the monetary system needs to be returned to the kind promoted by both Abraham Lincoln and JFK.

ONLY once that is done can ANY real success be claimed.

It is the overhaul of the monetary system that makes ALL "other problems" that so many good people here in this movement want to tackle, even possible.

PLEASE do NOT be "corralled into blind alleys" by manipulators who seek to defuse your righteous anger.

Learn where their REAL weak spot, their Achilles Heel, REALLY is.

PLEASE listen to your Founding Fathers and early Presidents.

Quote : "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies." Thomas Jefferson, US President 1801-9.

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and the corporations will grow up around them, will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." Thomas Jefferson in the debate over The Re-charter of the Bank Bill (1809).

"The government should create, issue and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the government and the buying power of consumers. By adoption of these principles, the taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master and become the servant of humanity." Abraham Lincoln, US President 1861-5. He created government issue money during the American Civil War before he was assassinated.

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the Earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of a pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the fortunes like mine will disappear, and they ought to disappear, for this world would be a happier and better world to live in. But if you wish to remain slaves of the Bankers and pay for the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits." Sir Josiah Stamp, President of the Bank of England in the 1920s, the second richest man in Britain.

Just remember this, that all OTHER grievances, that we all rightly have, can, and will, be addressed and solved, but they can ONLY be permanently tackled AFTER this task is complete.

Like a magnifying glass focuses the rays of the sun, let's make sure we "occupy" the main issue, the one from which all other issues will be cured ... the removal of the private, rather than the Constitutional, issuance of money itself.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

I like your position oceanwave. This one factor needs augmentation with REAL political teeth to be real.--

oceanwave wrote: In order though to have any "Hope" of any REAL and LASTING "Change" the monetary system needs to be returned to the kind promoted by both Abraham Lincoln and JFK.END---------

In order to have any change at all Americans must invoke Article V. the very fact all these people that were educated in government run schools don't even know what Article V is UNDERLINES how important it is for the nwo etc. to not be confronted with it.

[-] 1 points by e000 (371) 12 years ago

No party fights for the people. Learn why the LEFT and the RIGHT are both just two heads of the same beast that we all want to see "de-fanged".

I would have to agree with that. Any organized body that produces profit or benefits for members within the body, by nature, is self-preserving. If checks and balances are maintained, these bodies can serve good purposes, but ultimately all parties, bodies, governments, etc. are capable of internal corruption and becoming tools of their own self-preservation or used to cater to greed within the leading ranks. This is an easy trap for any body to fall into, including this movement, if this movement starts to specialize, to cater to the desires of some but not all of the goers here, to discriminate. I'm digressing again. Think I need to leave for a bit. But there's my two cents on that. :) digs in pocket to count remaining change, grins

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

i agree but without limiting corp. rights it is doomed to fail. Remove this central bank and in 10 -50 years they will enact another through the power that the rights of the individual give the crop entity. By the way The re-charter bill quote is not right. The term inflation is modern.

[-] 1 points by Oceanwave (3) 12 years ago

Thank you for your clarification Teamok. I was genuinely not aware that the word "inflation" was quite so recent. I would be delighted if you could post a more accurate version of the quote ... would be more than happy to amend it in all future posts. We are also very much "on the same page" with keeping money/corporations out of politics. When asked to define Fascism, Mussolini said that it was easy ... “Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism, because it is a merger of state and corporate power”. People are so often sidelined into thinking that Fascism isn't real or a threat unless it's accompanied by jackboots and death camps! But fascism is EXACTLY what is REALLY being fought against by this movement. The BIG PROBLEM though, is that ANY fight against Fascism, as this is, ALWAYS attracts its EVIL TWIN, Socialism! Just like the Right/Left false choice, they too are just two heads of the same beast. The Nazi Party's REAL name was the National Socialist Workers Party .... and the Communists were called the INTERNATIONAL Socialist Workers Party! BOTH were and still ARE intrinsically against the rights and freedoms of the people ... BOTH were, and still are, de-humanizing. BOTH stole/steal from the people and give power to the State one way or another. The REAL danger now is, that both are currently disguised as Socialism and Corporate control. "Jumping out of the frying pan, into the fire" will absolutely serve their interests. They don't care if we prefer our coffee with or without milk!! Its the same with our votes!! Remember the CORPORATE socialism of the Banker Bailouts!! Please everyone who may read this, just know that BOTH "breeds" of Socialism are at the SAME end of the political spectrum. They are NOT opposites!! The ONLY balance to be found, and protection to be had, is to move away from BOTH of them and towards FREEDOM with a move back to the Constitutional REPUBLIC enshrined by the Founding Fathers. The words "Democracy" and "Consensus decision making" sound like Mom and Apple Pie ... who could possibly be against them?? The truth is though that both sets of words have been absolutely abused and twisted beyond all recognition and have been forced into the employ of the twin-headed, masked intruder. ANY and ALL groups who seek to CONTROL people's thinking, speech (have your heard them "chanting" parrot fashion as if ANY two people cane EVER think exactly alike?? Utopian fantasy thinking), movements and actions must be viewed with suspicion at the very least. "Uniformity" is only ever FAKE unity at best, and mind control at worst. Cult chanting IS a known mind control technique, fact. True freedom NEVER seeks to control anyone ... Freedom is ALWAYS a true "coalition of the willing" NOT like the fake "fear-based" ones that the US/NATO use to justify their wars!

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 12 years ago

You broke it, Fix it.

How about that?

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

It isn't broke for them. It is for us.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 12 years ago

Not really true. They aren't monolithic either. I hear some of the one percent acknowledging that it is broken. Then they identify some examples. The examples, if fixed, might not affect them. But they affect other one percente'rs.

There are some (maybe have stockpiled enough for themselves) e.g. Buffet, et al.

Some won't admit it to you, but admit to themselves, that they contributed to the problems of the 99%.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

They won't enact Jefferson's 11th and remove corp. person-hood ever. They are to established. Why ask them to do it anyway? we are now in the streets with the world watching. When Jefferson and Madison did it for us. We just need to use it. Demand it now unified.

[-] 1 points by Droid24JG (119) from New York, NY 12 years ago

The leadership of the senate and congress need to be voted out, both parties, during the next cycle of elections.
Any member with more than 8 years and no demonstration of standing up for america needs to be voted out.
All americans can participate in this movement.

[-] 1 points by Lefty (16) 12 years ago

I would go along with term limits.

[-] 1 points by Lefty (16) 12 years ago

How about you demand what you really want? Other people's money. Simple as that. This is the message I have been reading, to acquire other people's money through popular vote. We got your message. It has been dismissed.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Jefferson is not about that at all lefty have some respect patriot.

[-] 0 points by TLydon007 (1278) 12 years ago

Either repeal Gramm-Leach-Bliley and overturn Citizens United

or....

Shoot Sean Hannity in the dick

Hear me out... We state that if they simply can not (or will not) meet the first 2 demands, then we will not go home until Sean Hannity gets shot in his dick. I don't care who does the shooting.(Roger Ailes, Aerial drones) It doesn't matter. This might set a precedent that whoever is spreading the most hate at any point in time....may get shot in the dick. I don't have anything personal against Sean Hannity. He's just make a living. But we need to make an example of someone and we need to do it now.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

How does that limit corps rights to access or gov. (our biggest problem) One not or

[-] 1 points by TLydon007 (1278) 12 years ago

Because if we overturn Citizens' United, corporations will no longer legally have personhood, which is how they are extended the same constitutional rights as actual people. This case is what now allows politicians to receive unlimited donations(under Freedom of Speech) while concealing the source(Privacy). We need to start somewhere. We can't make the demands so outlandish that it will be impossible for them to give in. One victory is all it will take to turn the tide of corruption and irresponsible deregulation.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

That's what Jefferson's bill does but it does it explicitly in the bill of rights. Not a court case. we need structural reform. I agree we need one victory and corp rights all of them not just the money parts must be limited. Not easy but when are we going to have 800 cities occupied again. with a single demand we could have 10's of millions out. All would stop and the pens would start writing the will of the people for once.

[-] 1 points by TLydon007 (1278) 12 years ago

"with a single demand we could have 10's of millions out."

I think if we were going to go with just 1 demand, it would have to be drastic campaign finance reform. Something which establishes a separation between business and politics the same way the first amendment establishes the separation between church and state.

"Not easy but when are we going to have 800 cities occupied again."

I think the amount of cities is one of the things holding us back. I think if we devoted all our support to our key cities(New York, Portland, LA, Boston, Chicago), it would help prolong the movement and the greater numbers will garner more media attention.I feel like all the time protesters spend in sporadic and short-lived occupations could be spent bringing food, support, transportation and greater numbers to the big occupations.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

We are in agreement. Good points. i do think with the right demand we could pull the 99% out and this would force action quickly. Look how fast they paid banks or funded war.

[-] 0 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

ultimately, you are not in a position and nobody is to brainstorm up mere demands. demands are stupid and infantile. complaints and then problem defintions and then detailed problem solutions are great. that requires time and homework to generate, not bong hits and then a brainstormed imagine yourself as emperor of the world Scrawl. this kind of thing does not help the movement, it just gives the powers that be ammo against us and prevents meaningful conversations which have depth or open source research and problem solving because you and everyone else imagines we can just skip all the steps and churn out "demands." Listen to the other people in the movement who are wisely saying NO to demands lists. I have demands, they are to the movement itself- thats where the real game is.

"Would you rather have war in this land? Do not confront me work with me...Civil unrest could very well lead to civil war... This list will prevent civil war.... Infantile, we are all infants in conciseness, which explains your poor choice of words.... You should be telling me how to make the list better not how it will never work."

? gawdoftruth (Santa Barbara, CA) 1 points 0 seconds ago

no, you need to drop making lists of demands. period. until you do open source research and science centered problem solving with other people, you have nothing to say worth repeating. your brain storming in ignorance. it sounds really really awesome to you- but for many people your tone def. Making demands is itself a sign of infantilism. period. Take responsibility and start working the problems in a deep and real way. I should not have to run through this further with you. This is a ludicrous sense of direction, it is not helping the movement and its not useful or meaningful for long term strategy in fact all it is is a giant set of red rings to give the pundits a clear target.

I don't want war. how i stop the war is to work the problems in a deep way and address the war. Not make demands. I'm an adult, not a seven year old, not a hostage taker, not a terrorist. I don't make demands, i communicate evolutionary truths. If ten thousand people follow my example we can have an evolution. If you run around like a bunch of punk alpha dominant azzholes, i promise you, all of your demands will lead to nothing but scorn and alienation.

but i can expect that we will find good solid means to that end instead of self sabotaging means to that end. Change your communication strategy. These are main political issues which you find to be critical. Now ask people to join you in reasearching them and working on these problems open source. You think you have the end product. instead you have a starting point. remove the "demands" from "demands" and replace with "these are the issues i want to discuss which seem critical to me." There you go. Thats the real process. "Demands " is itself what big Bruddah wants precisely because that makes us the ones holding wall street hostage. Domestic terrorism even when called non violent is still in essence domestic terrorism. Terrorists issue demands. Evolutionary patriots form think tanks.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

You think if your rational enough they will just work with you? Not a list ONE. This is not a mutually respectful relationship with power. They will give nothing.This single real change in the structure of our system will be revolutionary. Jefferson and Madison worked this out. Look it up. It is at the root of the problems we are facing. We risk running out of time if it remains unfocused. Research how real change is made when dealing with a complicit non responsive government. Demand not three year old's demands. One real one straight from our forefathers.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

eventually, enough information density can bring about 70 percent of the population around to our side. thats all we need. what they think about it becomes rapidly irrelevant they will be in a small minority.

i agree, we have 2 years or 7 now till the system crashes. we must change the course dynamically or everyone dies.

i hav researched how real change is made. thats why i am proposing wiki and etc.

ARTICLE 5 !!

and a new political party.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

Not sure we need article five yet. First we demand a single reasonable unified solution and gather our citizens. Then our national legislature has a chance to enact. If they fail to then we move to get the two thirds of our states legislatures act.

[-] 1 points by yeh (1) 12 years ago

We are not running out of time.

Let's see this movement lasts longer or the Universe lasts longer.

[-] 2 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

civilization is running out of time. having a movement which protests is useless if it does not actually also work to solve the problems it has in a meaningful way. this has not even started yet. there fore we are running out of time. the economic system is in dire straits and will probably collapse in under 2 years. the end of oil and coal supplies will begin to effect the mass distribution network to the point of fatal systemic collapse in about 7 years.

we are running out of time. and so far, even the first steps to prevent collapse have not been undertaken by anyone i know of other than me.

no wiki, no open source science centered problem solving process, no think tanks. ETC.

[-] 1 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

These things don't last like that. Look at history. This is our time. With a clear demand we stand a chance of getting it. We have the attention and momentum. Otherwise we will be remembered as whiners with no solutions

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 12 years ago

Well said.

[-] 0 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago
[-] 0 points by RichardGates (1529) 12 years ago

it's making the same point, get off your soap box

[-] 0 points by teamok (191) 12 years ago

One thing and demand it.