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Forum Post: We have no room for revisionist History.

Posted 2 years ago on Jan. 26, 2012, 12:26 p.m. EST by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

To deny the past is to leave the door open for repeat horrors.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/832/059/947/#taf

In response to a request here is the text of the petition:

Overview : Target: Tennessee State Legislators Sponsored by: Care2.com

Members of the Tennessee Tea Party are lobbying to erase any instances of slavery or genocide from history books in order to prevent the reputation of the founding fathers from being tarnished.

The audacity of this action alone is absurd. Part of the reason why students learn history is so that they can learn about the mistakes the United States has made and prevent them from ever happening again.

Omitting slavery from history is equivalent to erasing segregation, Jim Crow laws, and the entire Civil War! Slavery is a huge part of American history whether the Tennessee Tea Party wants to admit it or not. Tell the Tennessee Representatives to veto this ridiculous action!

Petition text : Dear Tennessee Representatives,

Slavery cannot be erased from American history. You must stop the motions made by the Tennessee Tea Party to erase slavery and genocide from history books immediately!

There is no possible way you can give an accurate account of American history without including the mistakes made by the Founding Fathers in the past.

(Your Comments Here)

Stop the Tennessee Tea Party from passing trying to omit slavery and genocide from American history in attempts to "save face" for the Founding Fathers of America.

163 Comments

163 Comments


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[-] 4 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Done. Racist bastards.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thanks for your participation in uniting for the good of "all" in common cause.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

You're welcome. I only wish it wasn't necessary. The right wing never ceases to amaze me. As soon as I think they can't sink any lower, they find a way.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Well this is definitely not a perfect world. So yes those of us who are able must be our brothers keeper. It will always be necessary to keep a watch on the store.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

there is room for all history

and there is access by many

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

There is no room for the attempt to remove or suppress History. Children must be taught what has happened and they must be taught how to learn and think for themselves. It is a handicap not to cover truth in history or to teach an incomplete and biased history.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

it is not necessary to delete old records to make room for new records

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I can't seriously believe that you mean that.

1 points by MattLHolck (4146) 10 minutes ago

it is the necessary to delete old records to make room for new records ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

at this point I have to wonder if my account is being messed with and my posts being messed with

let the administrators know that I only post from 2 IP accounts

and to check to see if anyone is altering my post from a different account

http://occupywallst.org/forum/you-troll/#comment-355016

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

All history is revisionist from the point of view of people who oppose a particular historical analysis. It all depends on who is doing the revising. For example, were there slave rebellions? Of course. But as to how significant those rebellions were and if so why, that is a matter of debate and if you will, revision.

History is written by the winners, though it would seem that the Civil War is still being fought and who the ultimate winners will be is still in doubt.

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yes the popular history is written by the winners. But truth in the fact that things were and had happened should not be removed. There are good and healthy lessons to be learned from all things from the past, to ignore or deny the bad is not healthy. To learn from the bad and deny a repeat is healthy.

[-] 1 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

This is "old" news from January 2011. http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2011/jan/13/tea-parties-cite-legislative-demands/

Here is a link the 2011 text book bills from the Tennessee General Assembly.

Legislation filed under: Textbooks http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/indexes/BillsBySubject.aspx?Primarysubject=4800&GA=107

While the "tea party" coalition in that state may have held a press conference regarding demands, it was one year ago and no bills appear to have been introduced regarding those demands.

Research can help OWS reserve its energy for problems which actually exist.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Revisionism is a problem that does exist, just like the Keystone pipeline problem exists. Revisionism has not gone away just like Keystone has not gone away - YET. They are both sitting on the field waiting for a break in the weather to Launch. It is up to us ( the people ) to address issues, even when they are currently dormant to see that they do not sneak in, ever!

[-] 1 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

Agreed. However, legislation in Indiana regarding this is real and not based upon a year old article about a press conference.

Indiana just released information on a bill that has come out of committee to be voted on by the body. Even if it does pass, the governor would need to sign it and even then, it opponents have already stated that it will be challenged in court. Precedent is that it would be ruled unconstitutional by that court and if not, there is a higher court of appeal.

My point is two-fold....

1) Research these things to find out where the energy would best be assigned - i.e. to a year old press conference or to actual legislation?

2) The Founders put in place a system of checks and balances - i.e. legislative, executive and judicial. The system works for the most part as will likely be seen in Indiana.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

The energy is best placed in recognizing danger all danger, identifying all sources, alerting the public everywhere to be on guard or take action as is appropriate and as things come to light. I've worked in QA for many years, just because something is not currently active does not mean that it is of no concern the thing is to be proactive and not let it become active not let it become an existing concern/problem. So yes it is essential to address things that are currently happening, but it is also vital to stop the spread or potential to spread. This is how you approach Zero Defects in industry and in life.

[-] 1 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

Agreed again. However, there is a big difference between a group holding a press conference and the legislature actually moving on the demands made in that press conference.

This post asked that people sign a petition to be presented to the Tennessee Legislature over non-existent legislation - a petition to the Indiana legislature will actually serve some purpose in the here and now, not in some unrealized future problem.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

No one is saying that Indiana can't start petitioning now. No one is saying that any state can not start petitioning now. You do not have to wait for something to be proposed to introduce a ban for just such a proposal. Yes absolutely go after active legislation but do not prevent addressing an issue to keep it from ever coming up for consideration in the 1st place. Acting is better than reacting. Plan for the worst and hope for the best. Do not hope the sleeping dog will continue to slumber either, plan on the fact that it will wake up.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21296) 2 years ago

What do we do about the school systems across America that include slavery for two days in a two year U.S. history curriculum at the high school level?

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

This is another important cause to unite upon: Education.

This is a matter to petition the educational system. Both Federal and state entities. To properly educate our children so that we do not see repeat horrors from our past because this was not given enough attention or not shown enough importance. We need to directly feed input into the system where education is lacking and why we feel this is so and why it is important to the health and welfare of our children our country and our world.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21296) 2 years ago

It is one of my main causes. I pay close attention to my kids' curriculum and fill in the blanks wherever I see fit and petition the schools to fix the problems. It's exhausting at times.

I live in a state with one of the best education systems yet the lack of slavery in the curriculum is mind-boggling. And, we wonder why we still have racism.

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Perhaps considering your back ground and experience of prior petitioning on this subject. Maybe you could go national, international ( internet ) by authoring your petition on this site: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/832/059/947/#taf

Then place it in a post on this forum for more exposure and chance of forwarding. When you author a petition on this site ( thepetitionsite.com ) you can also have it twittered, placed on your Facebook page or forwarded by e-mail to people or organizations that you choose.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21296) 2 years ago

I'll think about it. I would need to do a lot of research first.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

As it is an interest of yours, which you have already been following and addressing. I think you will do a fine job. Each to their strengths unite in common cause.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21296) 2 years ago

It is a good idea. Native American history is taught in the 3rd grade in my state and then forgotten. What kid remembers what they learn in the 3rd grade?

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Exactly. We need to continue to build on and support the expansion of understanding.

[-] 0 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

its call blowback and was bound to happen after years of left wing interference in our education the other side, the right wing wants to swing the pendulum back a little. its not clear to me what the tea party wants, hard to believe 100% what DKAtoday says.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

What??????????

1 points by Carlitini99 (55) 4 minutes ago

its call blowback and was bound to happen after years of left wing interference in our education the other side, the right wing wants to swing the pendulum back a little. its not clear to me what the tea party wants, hard to believe 100% what DKAtoday says. ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink

Do I care whether you believe me or not?

No!

Seek truth for yourself or find that someone may be leading you to hell.

Take responsibility for your own education.

[-] 0 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

Boy calm down...its just a discussion. And do you really take anything on this blog as factual? I couldn't confirm what you said, you could be right but i don't know for sure. I do think that the left wing has had a huge effect on our education since the 60's and i believe that there is a counter-response to that now throughout the U.S.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You really need to rethink why people are here. These are not "just" discussions. These are attempts to unite in common cause to end corruption and abuse. So seriously rethink your stance and invest some time. You don't do anyone good service with an attitude that it does not matter.

[-] 0 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

You sound like you don't like to hear an opposing views? Is this a blog to read one's orders then go out and execute on them?

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I know that I like to reply honestly to comments made to me or about me. And if you are treating a discussion as no big thing [ Boy calm down...its just a discussion ] considering that the intent of these discussions are to improve our world. Then I believe that I should call you on it. You 1st called my credibility into question ( my motives as well in so doing ) so Sorry if you don't like my response but tuff shit.

1 points by Carlitini99 (55) 30 minutes ago

Boy calm down...its just a discussion. And do you really take anything on this blog as factual? I couldn't confirm what you said, you could be right but i don't know for sure. I do think that the left wing has had a huge effect on our education since the 60's and i believe that there is a counter-response to that now throughout the U.S. ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink

[-] 1 points by NKVD (55) 2 years ago

"..the intent of these discussions are to improve our world". Are you serious or was that a joke?

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

With that question. I'll take it you are a purchased voice or a troll regardless.

[-] 1 points by NKVD (55) 2 years ago

Why don't you answer the question?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I'm serious when I say I am here to make a difference in our world.

And I'm serious when I consider you a troll or a purchased personality here to sow discord and disruption.

So continue on there are plenty of other hole diggers, you should not be lonely - 1/26/2012 NKVD (26) 3 minutes ago.

[-] 0 points by NKVD (55) 2 years ago

These discussions aren't going to change the world. Action changes the world. All that happens here is bickering and name-calling when someone disagrees or questions the left wing line. Just like you calling me a troll. But blather changes nothing. You need to grow up.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You need to work for yourself and mankind.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

college education was free in CA in the 60s

[-] -1 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

OK, please carry on with your quest.

[-] 0 points by Samcitt (136) 2 years ago

LOL the South will never learn. Its an inbred cesspit.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

There are many good people who live in the south. Just like anyone else anywhere else they are not immune to or free of Racists, Bigots, Ignorant, Corrupt, or Greedy people who may have found themselves in a position of power or influence. The struggle for good and responsible behavior is not isolated to anyone place.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Pete and Repete.

Pete is original - good bad or indifferent.

Repete is a copy cat.

Be aware of copies, then you can choose to support or deny.

Pete = The Great Depression.

Repete = The Great Recession.

Forgotten lesson's ( Pete ) remedy = Glass Stegall

Result ( Repete ) repeal and melt = The Great Recession.

[-] 0 points by CephaIus (34) 2 years ago

You're a francophone? From Montréal?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

What does : The adjective francophone means French-speaking, typically as primary language, whether referring to individuals, groups, or places. Often, the word is used as ...

Have to do with the thread?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

What?

[-] 0 points by CephaIus (34) 2 years ago

Pète and répète are French words which are often used together to form children jokes around a similar theme; sort of like knock-knock jokes in English. Pète means to fart, and répète means to repeat.

The most common of those jokes goes something like this:

"Pète and Répète are on a boat. Pète falls in the water. Who's left?"

The listener than says "Répète" and the teller proceeds to retell the joke ad infinitum. The joke is that these common nouns are being used as proper nouns, i.e. actor names.

I figured you must have been a francophone since you were using the French spelling of repeat albeit without the accents, i.e. répète. I assumed the English version would have been Pete and Repeat. Somehow, what you are saying comes from French. How? I'm not sure.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

OK. In that case. No not I.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Teabaggers are the most insidious political development of all time.

Plus they raised my taxes.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

So that means you have signed? Because we all need to unite in support of common cause.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Of course, I signed, How could I not?

The teabaggers are here to further divide us, and the Koch's are waiting to pick up the pieces.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thank you for taking part, thank you for being here as a unifying factor. Thank you for supporting common cause.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

You're welcome.

It's why I came to this site in the first place. To find common ground.

Fighting the troll wars takes up an awful amount of time, so I would like to thank you for posting this petition......................:)

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I appreciate your support and I will try my best to continue in the fight to unite for common cause. Thank you again for participating.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Done. This is revolting.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thank you for taking part. We can not let horrors of the past be forgotten, or we will see a repeat due to ignorance of the young.

I mean look at what happened because government forgot the lessons of the Great Depression.

We can not continue down this path. We can not let past horrors revisit us.

[+] -4 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Texas same thing. Louisiana same problems. Indiana is also going to have major problems. http://www.news-sentinel.com/article/2012120129648

The assault on education has to stop.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Let us all act now to nip it in the bud.

[+] -5 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

They should not be able to teach creationism in schools nor should they be able to teach evolution.

[-] 3 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

And the founders put in place a "check" on this kind of legislation - it is called the Judicial Branch. Indiana's new legislation (just out of committee) if passed will be heard by the Judicial Branch of that state.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

By Tom Davies of The Associated Press Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 7:43 pm

INDIANAPOLIS — Indiana's public schools would be allowed to teach creationism in science classes under a bill endorsed Wednesday by a state Senate committee.

The Senate Education Committee voted 8-2 in favor of the bill despite experts and some senators saying teaching creationism likely would be ruled unconstitutional if challenged in court.

Committee Chairman Dennis Kruse, R-Auburn, said he sponsored the bill because he believes creationism should be taught among the theories on the development of life and that the proposal wouldn't force any changes in schools teaching evolution.

A theory is not the same as a hypothesis. Gravity is a theory. "The Giants will win." is a hypothesis, a guess. Dark matter is also a hypothesis. They are working on finding the evidence to determine its existence or non existence. Creationism is a hypothesis for which insufficient evidence exists to advance it to being a theory, like gravity.

Only in common vernacular is "theory" considered the equivalent of a "guess." The theory of gravity is something you can rely on to keep you from falling off the earth (which is round.)

[-] 2 points by CephaIus (34) 2 years ago

100% Agreed. I'll add Intelligent Design which is just creationism disguised as a lame pseudoscience.

[-] -1 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

Agreed but i must add that I am talking about public schools.

[-] 0 points by CephaIus (34) 2 years ago

I'm talking about all schools. Children should never be fooled into thinking that creationism is the truth. If such subjects are taught, it should be made very clear that there is no evidence that any of it is truthful and that it is not scientific in the least. It should be made clear that it's just from a book that certain people believe is the word of God.

children should be protected from physical harm even if their parents want to beat them up. In the same way, children should also be protected from mental harm even if their parents want to indoctrinate them.

Respecting the religious beliefs of others does not mean letting them teach whatever they want to their children. Not in my book. Teach your children Christianity, but teach it, don't indoctrinate them. Be honest that it's only a belief and not a truth. That way, they won't think they are superior to other people who have other beliefs and they'll be able to decide on their own what they should or shouldn't believe in. Give them true knowledge, don't feed them lies just because you were fed lies when you were young.

[-] -1 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

That is where we disagree, parent should be free to raise their kids how they wish so long as no harm. Believing in creationism dose not harm people, some of the most wealthy people in the world believe in it. Actually many doctors are creationists as well.

[-] 0 points by CephaIus (34) 2 years ago

I have no problem with someone who wishes to believe in creationism.

However, indoctrinating a child is a different matter. Brainwashing is not healthy. It's destructive for the child's mind and for society as a whole. I believe society as a whole is responsible for the welfare of its children, not just the child's parents. Physical abuse as well as mental abuse should be illegal. I consider indoctrination as mental abuse. I consider it as being very harmful.

If a parent is honest and wishes to teach instead of indoctrinate, then he or she should be clear with the child that creationism comes from a book which is only believed to come from God. He or she should be clear with the child that there is no evidence the book is from God, and that one has to believe in creationism, and that belief comes with faith, unlike science. If the parent is honest, then I have no problem with teaching creationism because this is teaching, not indoctrination.

This will permit the child to grow up in a healthy fashion and he can choose what to believe in when he reaches adulthood. If they become doctors and believe in creationism, that is fine by me. To each is own. Just be honest with your children.

I have seen muslim children being indoctrinated in the madrasa of Indonesia. It is not pretty and I feel extremely bad for those children. Most imams pass off Islamic teachings as if they were scientific facts. This is not healthy, and is a lie.

We can agree to disagree.

[-] -3 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

You don't have kids!!! Go to your nearest neighbor and tell them what to do with their child and how to raise him or her. You may get punched in the nose. Now translate that to the public's response.

[-] 0 points by CephaIus (34) 2 years ago

You would be surprised.

Actually, my parents once reported a neighbor to the police because he was physically and mentally abusing his child. The social services came and took the child away. The family later all went to therapy together and a few years later most of their major problems were solved. The neighbor never punched my dad in the face, but he did tell us years later that if we hadn't called the police things might have gotten a lot worse. He realized that my parents helped them.

If you even encounter a child that is being abused, I highly suggest that you report the situation to the proper authorities. No child should be mistreated, even if that means you might get punched in the nose by his or her dad. It's a risk worth taking.

[-] -2 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

See i know what happens children are 11 time more likely to be abused by CPS. Pedophiles flock to cps to to watch the kids. I would kick the kids parents ass long before calling CPS

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

Humans are apt at creation/construction

[-] 1 points by XaiverBuchsIV (508) 2 years ago

The problem with Christiana, TN is that it is so isolated from the world that people living there might just as well be living on another planet.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Evolution is science. Of COURSE they should teach it. Should they not teach math? Should they not teach English?

[-] 1 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

when you frame it like that who could argue... It is obviously not even close to the same.. That is a red haring.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

It's no red herring. Science is science. Science teachers should teach science. Period.

[-] 1 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

Should we teach your child the theory of free market capitalism?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

That would be pseudo science, so NO.

What's captolism, anyway?

You just keep making stuff up.

[-] 1 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

It was a typo see no human is perfect and you do realize that does not take away from what i said. So what are you stalking me now?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I dislike the spreading of disinformation, and you are legion in that regard.

Stalking???? Hardly.

It's an open forum and your "stuff' shows up on the lists.

Start telling the truth, and you will find me to be a friendly sort.

[-] 1 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

Your version of truth?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Truth knows no versions, unless you are Palin, or any number of other flavors of (R)eplican'ts.

Are you a (R)epelican't?

Because that would make sense.

[+] -5 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Evolution is science and creationism is not science. Period. Evolution is demonstrable.

[-] 0 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

Actually evolution is a "theory" but let not argue this please.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21296) 2 years ago

Evolution is science. Period. End of story. Read about the Big Bang. That was how we were created.

[-] 4 points by Nanook (172) 2 years ago

Science, not science, theory, hypothesis ... think about what's going on in this thread. Because WINNING, in our society, has become more important than TRUTH, or efficiency or justice, the political fronts are able to keep the public in an emotional frenzy. In that frenzy, we are so driven by emotion that we can't even stand back and say to each other, "hey, why don't we create this new invention. We'll call it a DICTIONARY. That way, when we speak to each other, we'll be able to understand what we're talking about."

The tragedy is that society has already done that. But when people are whipped into a rage, they shut out reason. It's all about winning. So, to win, they throw out anything in their way - like well established definitions of words. And once that happens, we have entered the world of insane people. Why? Because there is no longer a way to communicate based on reality. They deny all the definitions that describe reality so they can steal the words for themselves to mean whatever they want them to mean.

As long as adversaries keep blowing each other up, neither gets to live in peace, beauty and prosperity. Conflict is the road to poverty.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21296) 2 years ago

The truth is the truth. Teaching children anything else is a mistake.

[-] 0 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

I agree lot's of people don't know the English language and need to learn it. I find it funny that you picked one of the people that does not know the definitions of words and he still did not get it. A real valuable trait is to be able to admit when you are wrong and i can admit i still have trouble with that at times.

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Tacoma, WA 2 years ago

No, that is just how the Natives of the Americas were created. Remember where the theory of evolution was sighted? In the Americas. And they are a totally different heart, cosmological history, and even planet than those in the Hebrew storyline.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (21296) 2 years ago

I understand that the Native Americans were the first people to populate North America, but they migrated through the Bering Strait to North America, ultimately completing a journey that took thousands of years out of Africa.

I also understand they have their own creation myths. Every society, every religion does.

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Tacoma, WA 2 years ago

Yes, but its actually more complex than that. Crossing over the waters actually connected us to a whole other cosmos, hooking us into the Milky Way galaxy (note that there was no mention of the Milky Way prior to 1492). The idea of a single, solid planet is purely a projection from a naive cosmology (though understandable). It got put together post facto after the observations of Columbus, given his expectation and model of the world. The Natives, for the most part, don't bother trying to suggest that the map the europeans hold in their head is the same as the one of their history and cosmology. For then, the Europeans are just people from "over the waters". You might note that biblical reference.

The other thing to note is two entirely different calendars. A system of time is significant because it is the calendars that hold the history of a race. I'll tell you that the Mayan calendar actually runs in a different direction of time than the Hebrew one (here in year 5,772 from creation by best reckoning of the Jews), and we should have never cross-bred into the Native races.

The whole argument about evolution can be sorted out. It was only formulated after encountering the ancient people of the Americas (also cf. Darwin @ Galapagos) who did not derive from Adam/Eve. Their presence created a huge problem for the Constantine Church who could not reconcile their presence.

In any case evolution is True -- BUT only for the Tree of Life, not for us. So there: an answer that satisfies both parties.

The only issue remaining is the issue of the African races. I also should correct myself; properly speaking the Native's did not originate from the big bang, they are actually from before it. But the African races are directly connected to the Big Bang. Remember time is not linear. It is only for the convenience of keeping the order to history must we apply linearity and order.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (21296) 2 years ago

I'm not religious and am not familiar with the Bible. I am not an apologist for any one group of people. I see myself as a human and that is all. The Chinese have a calendar too. The races are a fiction. There is only one race, the human race. That is why we can all procreate. Don't be divisive. In this day and age we are intermingled and we must learn to live together.

I will never defend the way the "explorers" treated the natives. I have studied it in depth. It is horrifying. I wish more people knew that history.

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Tacoma, WA 2 years ago

No, I know it seems more peaceful to see it all as one, but it actually creates more suffering. I promise you and my soul hates you for the suffering your false compassion has made in me. There will never be peace without Truth. Why do you think the 60's failed?

Postmodernism is not a path to peace, it was only necessary temporarily to sort out the confusion that the Catholic Church put on the very Hebrew story where it began.

I can give you a very detailed reason why this is all confused and why it must get sorted out. And as for you comment on the Chinese they are the center of time and the Natives are the heart of it. I'm certain, that the Mayan calendar could be sync'd up to the Chinese, but not the Hebrew which is where you and I are.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21296) 2 years ago

I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't think my compassion is false at all. I think we haven't even begun to apologize to Native Americans for what was done to them. As a matter of fact, I think our past contributes to the ills of our society today.

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Tacoma, WA 2 years ago

Your compassion about trying to make every one "one human race" is simply false and will never stabilize, that is what I'm referring to. Some came from the story of evolution, we do not. You can't (or shouldn't) combine the two. How many more religious wars does it take to realize it?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21296) 2 years ago

Oh. I understand what you are saying. Okay. Yes. Everyone has their own "dream" so to speak of who they are and we should respect that. Very true.

[-] -2 points by CephaIus (34) 2 years ago

It's a scientific theory, just like General Relativity. You too are lost with your terms.

Read about the Big Bang. That was how we were created.

We weren't created by the Big Bang. That's how the Universe was created. Humans came afterwards.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21296) 2 years ago

All life relates back to the Big Bang.

[-] -1 points by CephaIus (34) 2 years ago

In a way you could say that, but it's not precise to say that humans were created from the Big Bang. I think it's important to use precise language when talking about these matters, else it just breeds confusion. Some of your readers, especially the younger ones, might think that humans were created during the Big Bang. That is simply false.

More precise would be to say that the Big Bang created the energy and the materials required to form stars, and that stars created the materials required to form life. This way, it's clear that life came after the Big Bang and after the formation of the first stars. Exactly how and when life was created is still a matter of debate. One thing is sure, it wasn't created during the phase known as the Big Bang which only lasted a few nano-seconds.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21296) 2 years ago

They need to read, then, but I see your point.

[-] 0 points by ineptcongress (648) 2 years ago

evolution in some species has been directly observed and well recorded/documented within the last 10 years... you can call it a theory, but it's approaching accepted law every day.

[-] 0 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

I swear some of you people are near retarded GO to SCHOOL, read a BOOK and stop being fucking STUPID. I mean seriously if you don't know that evolution is a theory you are one of two things young or dumb.

[-] 1 points by ineptcongress (648) 2 years ago

first, i am anything but stupid. second, we observe gravity everyday, is that a law, or a theory? third, we have in fact observed evolution in animal and plant species... you are so brash and rude, and yet, too small minded to realize that the difference between a law and theory is merely a matter of degree of acceptance by the scientific community. and the degree of observability and repeatability of events or phenomena is what garners acceptance among the community. evolution has been observed in modern day numerous times,,,, so you still want to classify it as a theory? it is well accepted and gaining.

[-] 1 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

Law of gravity as it is not debated at all, it is even called the "law of gravity". Theory of evolution is called that as it is still highly debated by scientist and it is called the theory of evolution.

here if you want some scientific arguments against evolution. http://www.straight-talk.net/evolution/arguments.shtml

[-] 2 points by ineptcongress (648) 2 years ago

you must have gone to school a long time ago, old timer. it's not called "theory of evolution" anymore, it's merely evolution. sure, the religious establishment battles the evidence at every turn, and spends fortunes to promote studies that refute evolution (see no use of word theory). the religious establishment is unequivocally committed to a diametrically opposed view, and will be harmed perhaps permanently if they are disproven. however, my point is/was evolution is fast approaching the law of evolution since we have a hard time calling repeatedly, reliably, observable and recorded events a "theory." i've certainly heard of people say "theory of gravity" in part because we have very little understanding.

[-] 1 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

You are simply wrong maybe you were lied to it is still a theory. Also who ever you heard say theory of gravity is wrong as well. Why is Darwinism like a religion to some not to be elaborated and debated?

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

The Law of Gravity is a THEORY. The laws of thermodynamics is a THEORY. Learn what the terms mean, for Creation's sake.

[-] 0 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

Scientific Hypothesis, Theory, Law Definitions http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistry101/a/lawtheory.htm

[+] -7 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Exactly.

[-] 1 points by ineptcongress (648) 2 years ago

please go on one of your creative rants--they are still the best:):)

[+] -7 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

It is tempting right now. LOL.

[-] 0 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

Do you have rocks in your head it's not like i am making this crap up. It is called the THEORY of evolution. I did not make that up that is fact, FACT.

[Deleted]

[-] 0 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

I really have no idea what you are trying to say.

[+] -7 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Again, 4th graders are 10-11 years old. Santa and the Easter Bunny are behind them. You should already know this information. There is no excuse. You are just flat out stupid.

[-] 0 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

You are seriously in need of critical thinking skills.

[+] -6 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

No, you don't get to back peddle. You ass.

[+] -7 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

You may NOT exploit the word theory when it comes to evolution. Period. This is what you have done. You cannot do this.

You learn this in the fourth grade. Did you not go to a public school?

[-] 0 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

"i never said evolution does not exist i said it is a theory.as we don't know every aspect." It is YOU who does not get it.

[+] -7 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Wrong answer, Cornflake. You are really and truly that ignorant.

[-] 0 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

You think you can choose your reality. BTY i never said evolution does not exist i said it is a theory.as we don't know every aspect. But hey just keep the blinders on never study and learn on your own. I bet you are one of those girls that loves to be fed.

[+] -7 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

sigh

You moron. You are exploiting the word theory, as if. [-] 0 points by BannedForTruth (129) from Christiana, TN 23 hours ago Actually evolution is a "theory" but let not argue this please.

So, I will find something to help pull your head out of your ass.


You've been told that "evolution is just a theory", a guess, a hunch, and not a fact, not proven. You've been misled. Keep reading, and in less than two minutes from now you'll know that you've been misinformed. We're not going to try and change your mind about evolution. We just want to point out that "it's just a theory" is not a valid argument.

The Theory of Evolution is a theory, but guess what? When scientists use the word theory, it has a different meaning to normal everyday use.1 That's right, it all comes down to the multiple meanings of the word theory. If you said to a scientist that you didn't believe in evolution because it was "just a theory", they'd probably be a bit puzzled.

In everyday use, theory means a guess or a hunch, something that maybe needs proof. In science, a theory is not a guess, not a hunch. It's a well-substantiated, well-supported, well-documented explanation for our observations.2 It ties together all the facts about something, providing an explanation that fits all the observations and can be used to make predictions. In science, theory is the ultimate goal, the explanation. It's as close to proven as anything in science can be.

Some people think that in science, you have a theory, and once it's proven, it becomes a law. That's not how it works. In science, we collect facts, or observations, we use laws to describe them, and a theory to explain them. You don't promote a theory to a law by proving it. A theory never becomes a law.

This bears repeating. A theory never becomes a law. In fact, if there was a hierarchy of science, theories would be higher than laws. There is nothing higher, or better, than a theory. Laws describe things, theories explain them. An example will help you to understand this. There's a law of gravity, which is the description of gravity. It basically says that if you let go of something it'll fall. It doesn't say why. Then there's the theory of gravity, which is an attempt to explain why. Actually, Newton's Theory of Gravity did a pretty good job, but Einstein's Theory of Relativity does a better job of explaining it. These explanations are called theories, and will always be theories. They can't be changed into laws, because laws are different things. Laws describe, and theories explain.

Just because it's called a theory of gravity, doesn't mean that it's just a guess. It's been tested. All our observations are supported by it, as well as its predictions that we've tested. Also, gravity is real! You can observe it for yourself. Just because it's real doesn't mean that the explanation is a law. The explanation, in scientific terms, is called a theory.

Evolution is the same. There's the fact of evolution. Evolution (genetic change over generations)3 happens, just like gravity does. Don't take my word for it.4 Ask your science teacher, or google it. But that's not the issue we are addressing here. The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection is our best explanation for the fact of evolution. It has been tested and scrutinised for over 150 years, and is supported by all the relevant observations.

Next time someone tries to tell you that evolution is just a theory, as a way of dismissing it, as if it's just something someone guessed at, remember that they're using the non-scientific meaning of the word. If that person is a teacher, or minister, or some other figure of authority, they should know better. In fact, they probably do, and are trying to mislead you.5

Evolution is not just a theory, it's triumphantly a theory!

1 Theory: A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena. American Heritage Dictionary 2 Scientific theories are explanations of natural phenomena built up logically from testable observations and hypotheses. Teaching About Evolution and the Nature of Science - National Academy Press 3 A standard, scientific definition of evolution is: In fact, evolution can be precisely defined as any change in the frequency of alleles within a gene pool from one generation to the next. Biology - Helena Curtis and N. Sue Barnes, W H Freeman 4 Evolutionists have been clear about this distinction between fact and theory from the very beginning, if only because we have always acknowledged how far we are from completely understanding the mechanisms (theory) by which evolution (fact) occurred. Darwin continually emphasized the difference between his two great and separate accomplishments: establishing the fact of evolution, and proposing a theory - natural selection - to explain the mechanism of evolution. Evolution as Fact and Theory - Stephen Jay Gould 5 The Cobb County School Board required a sticker with the following text to be placed on all biology textbooks: This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered. Decision of the Court Striking Down the Cobb County Evolution Disclaimer http://notjustatheory.com/index.html

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Tacoma, WA 2 years ago

Its not theory for the Tree of Life. How's that? That satisfies both camps. HAHA.

[-] 0 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

LOL You took me to the polar opposite of a creationist site. Use a dictionary and not some Darwinist love site.

the·o·ry    [thee-uh-ree, theer-ee] Show IPA noun, plural the·o·ries.

<<1.a coherent group of tested general propositions, COMMONLY REGARDED as CORRECT, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity. Synonyms: principle, law, doctrine.>>

2.a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact. Synonyms: idea, notion hypothesis, postulate. Antonyms: practice, verification, corroboration, substantiation.

3.Mathematics . a body of principles, theorems, or the like, belonging to one subject: number theory.

4.the branch of a science or art that deals with its principles or methods, as distinguished from its practice: music theory.

5.a particular conception or view of something to be done or of the method of doing it; a system of rules or principles: conflicting theories of how children best learn to read.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theory

[+] -6 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Honey, you really, really need to go back to school. We just cannot have this type of ignorance in our society. Fourth graders comprehend this material. There is no reason on earth that you should not be able to digest this. I am not wrong. You are stupid.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/

[-] -1 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

4th graders believe in Santa and the Easter bunny and believe they could have super powers. We simply can not have evil people teaching kids it is an atrocity.

-------snip ------- snip-----

[+] -7 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

From the American Heritage Dictionary:

the·o·ry n. pl. the·o·ries

A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena. The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory. A set of theorems that constitute a systematic view of a branch of mathematics. Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory. A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture. From the National Academy Press:

Is evolution a fact or a theory?

The theory of evolution explains how life on earth has changed. In scientific terms, "theory" does not mean "guess" or "hunch" as it does in everyday usage. Scientific theories are explanations of natural phenomena built up logically from testable observations and hypotheses. Biological evolution is the best scientific explanation we have for the enormous range of observations about the living world.

Scientists most often use the word "fact" to describe an observation. But scientists can also use fact to mean something that has been tested or observed so many times that there is no longer a compelling reason to keep testing or looking for examples. The occurrence of evolution in this sense is a fact. Scientists no longer question whether descent with modification occurred because the evidence supporting the idea is so strong.

Why isn't evolution called a law?

Laws are generalizations that describe phenomena, whereas theories explain phenomena. For example, the laws of thermodynamics describe what will happen under certain circumstances; thermodynamics theories explain why these events occur.

Laws, like facts and theories, can change with better data. But theories do not develop into laws with the accumulation of evidence. Rather, theories are the goal of science.

From the Talk Origins site:

"Evolution is a Fact and a Theory"

Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts.

Answers in Genesis, a web site which promotes Creationism, has a section on arguments that creationists shouldn't use. Whilst they correctly direct people not to use the "just a theory" argument, their alternative is no better:

"Evolution is just a theory."

What people usually mean when they say this is "Evolution is not proven fact, so it should not be promoted dogmatically." Therefore people should say that! The problem with using the word "theory" in this case is that scientists use it to mean a well-substantiated explanation of data. This includes well-known theories such as Einstein's Theory of Relativity and Newton's Theory of Gravity, as well as lesser-known ones such as the Debye-Hückel Theory of electrolyte solutions. It would be better to say that particles-to-people evolution is an unsubstantiated hypothesis or conjecture.

From the PBS series on evolution:

When we use the word "theory" in everyday life, we usually mean an idea or a guess, but the word has a much different meaning in science. This video examines the vocabulary essential for understanding the nature of science and evolution and illustrates how evolution is a powerful, well-supported scientific explanation for the relatedness of all life.

The book The Top 10 Myths About Evolution, by Cameron M. Smith and Charles Sullivan, has a chapter entitled "Myth Two: It's Just a Theory":

...calling evolution "just a theory" involves a misunderstanding of what a scientific theory is. Evolution is a fact, and the three main processes that make up evolution - replication, variation, and selection - are observable and undeniable.

[-] 0 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

From the American Heritage Dictionary

<1. A set of statements or principles "devised to explain" a group of "facts or phenomena," especially one that has been repeatedly tested "or is widely accepted" and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.>

http://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=theory

Are you just trying to make yourself look dumb? Notice no links to the dictionary she quoted?

[+] -7 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Fucking amazing.

You really are that stupid.

[+] -5 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

It is science. Period.

[-] -1 points by CephaIus (34) 2 years ago

It's a scientific theory. And, together with General Relativity, it's the strongest scientific theory of the last 150 years. It has mountains upon mountains of evidence supporting it, just like General Relativity.

Creationism is well.... a pure waste of time.

[-] -2 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

See the big problem is the scientists have started finding periods of "evolutionary" bloom. In which many new species appear at one time. The hypothesis is that their maybe other forces not "GOD" at play like radiation that causes the mutation. So my problem is if we teach a theory as fact then we don't study it further and get to the truth.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

It is clear that you don't understand the difference between scientific theory and what the non-scientists call theory. In science, everything is theory. Gravity is a theory, Newton's laws are theory. Relativity is theory. Your very existence is theory. These are all things that have been proven 99.999999%. But because NOTHING is provable 100%, science, being as precise as possible, never calls anything "fact". That infinitesimal uncertainty makes them describe all their discoveries, all of the explanations they have found about how the universe works, every single one, as theory. Evolution is no different.

And since you don't understand science enough to know even such a basic thing as what a scientific theory is, how do you possibly feel expert enough about it to propose a curriculum for teaching it? Science teachers should teach science. Stop meddling with them.

[-] 1 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

Noun 1. scientific theory - a theory that explains scientific observations; "scientific theories must be falsifiable"

big bang theory, big-bang theory - (cosmology) the theory that the universe originated sometime between 10 billion and 20 billion years ago from the cataclysmic explosion of a small volume of matter at extremely high density and temperature nebular hypothesis - (cosmology) the theory that the solar system evolved from a hot gaseous nebula planetesimal hypothesis - (cosmology) the theory that the solar system was formed by the gravitational accumulation of planetesimals continuous creation theory, steady state theory - (cosmology) the theory that the universe maintains a constant average density with matter created to fill the void left by galaxies that are receding from each other; "the steady state theory has been abandoned in favor of the big bang theory" theory - a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; "theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses"; "true in fact and theory" gravitational theory, Newton's theory of gravitation, theory of gravitation, theory of gravity - (physics) the theory that any two particles of matter attract one another with a force directly proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them organicism - theory that the total organization of an organism rather than the functioning of individual organs is the determinant of life processes science, scientific discipline - a particular branch of scientific knowledge; "the science of genetics" atomic theory - a theory of the structure of the atom cell doctrine, cell theory - (biology) the theory that cells form the fundamental structural and functional units of all living organisms; proposed in 1838 by Matthias Schleiden and by Theodor Schwann undulatory theory, wave theory, wave theory of light - (physics) the theory that light is transmitted as waves corpuscular theory, corpuscular theory of light - (physics) the theory that light is transmitted as a stream of particles kinetic theory, kinetic theory of gases - (physics) a theory that gases consist of small particles in random motion Einstein's theory of relativity, relativity, relativity theory, theory of relativity - (physics) the theory that space and time are relative concepts rather than absolute concepts supersymmetry - (physics) a theory that tries to link the four fundamental forces; "according to supersymmetry each force emerged separately during the big bang" quantum theory - (physics) a physical theory that certain properties occur only in discrete amounts (quanta) indeterminacy principle, uncertainty principle - (quantum theory) the theory that it is impossible to measure both energy and time (or position and momentum) completely accurately at the same time germ theory - (medicine) the theory that all contagious diseases are caused by microorganisms information theory - (computer science) a statistical theory dealing with the limits and efficiency of information processing Arrhenius theory of dissociation, theory of dissociation, theory of electrolytic dissociation - (chemistry) theory that describes aqueous solutions in terms of acids (which dissociate to give hydrogen ions) and bases (which dissociate to give hydroxyl ions); the product of an acid and a base is a salt and water evolutionism, theory of evolution, theory of organic evolution - (biology) a scientific theory of the origin of species of plants and animals Ostwald's theory of indicators, theory of indicators - (chemistry) the theory that all indicators are either weak acids or weak bases in which the color of the ionized form is different from the color before dissociation theory of inheritance - (biology) a theory of how characteristics of one generation are derived from earlier generations association theory, associationism - (psychology) a theory that association is the basic principle of mental activity atomism - (psychology) a theory that reduces all mental phenomena to simple elements (sensations and feelings) that form complex ideas by association functionalism - a psychology based on the assumption that all mental process are useful to an organism in adapting to the environment configurationism, Gestalt psychology - (psychology) a theory of psychology that emphasizes the importance of configurational properties

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/scientific+theory

now the LAW of gravity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Gravity_%28disambiguation%29

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

The Law of gravity is a THEORY. It's full scientific name is Theory of the Law of Gravity.

[-] 0 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

Scientific Hypothesis, Theory, Law Definitions http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistry101/a/lawtheory.htm

This should help, if you choose to read it.

[+] -5 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Go back to school, Banned.

[-] 1 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

Stop stalking me hooker!! Are you afraid people will read reality and you may have to join it someday?

[-] -1 points by CephaIus (34) 2 years ago

Evolution is a complex theory. It's in flux. Some aspects are proven with hard evidence, other aspects are still being explored. What's important is to be clear in class. The strong knowledge is taught first, then. if the teacher has time left, he can teach the more tentative ideas while being very clear with the students that these are tentative ideas still being researched.

I don't see a problem.

[-] -1 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

Should they teach conspiracy theory's in school?

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

That's what they ARE doing when they demand teaching "creationism".

[-] -2 points by CephaIus (34) 2 years ago

They should teach the tools required to detect conspiracy theories. That is, logical and critical thought. Kids should learn about the scientific method developed by René Descartes and how it has evolved since. They should learn about concepts like parsimony, progression, the difference between correlation and causation, and who bears the burden of proof.

They should also learn about logical fallacies like ad hominem, red herrings, appeal to motive, appeal to authority, correlation without a cause, etc...

The idea should be to properly equip children with the proper tools to process the amazing amount of information that exists in this world.

Once they have learned critical thought, you can teach them about 9-11 Trutherism, but you should also teach them about all the people who have debunked Truthers and why they did so. Then you should have a discussion with them about the matter and keep it as unbiased as possible. You should ask questions in the Socratic manner. For example, what you do think about this idea? Why do you think some people believe there was a conspiracy? Why do you believe others debunk that conspiracy? Do you think some people are making a lot of money with this? Who do you think the money makers are? Etc...

What's important is to teach, not indoctrinate. Teach them to make up their own mind and to judge carefully. Don't just spoon feed them your ideas or the ideas of others.

As René Descartes would say - The most important thing is doubt. Always give ample room for doubt. This is the key ingredient for critical thought and the scientific method. Even the scientific method can be doubted, i.e. if you presented us with a better method to research science and showed us why it's better, it would be adopted over the previous one. This has happened time and time again. The problem with conspiracy theories and religions is that they don't leave room for doubt. And, when you suffocate doubt, you suffocate the thinking mind.

Great teachers don't only let their students doubt their teachings, they demand that their students doubt their teachings. That's the most profound lesson of all.

[-] 0 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

There is a question "Is Francis Bacon, Shakespeare?" and many claim that how you answer this question truly judges if you know the scientific method. I will not give the answer and wont discuss this question much more here.

[-] 0 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

Francis Bacon's scientific method is the real one and i will call yours the creationist scientific method. "The first rule was never to accept anything as true unless I recognized it to be evidently such: that is, carefully to avoid precipitation and prejudgment, and to include nothing in my conclusions unless it presented itself so clearly and distinctly to my mind that there was no occasion to doubt it. " Quote by René Descartes-

The problem with many's mind's is they are just not right so you must scientifically review it.

"- Idols of the tribe: False notions due to the human nature and common to all men. An example would be geocentricity which was due to the limits of human insight." Quote by Francis Bacon

Both regarding The Scientific Method

[-] -1 points by CephaIus (34) 2 years ago

René Descartes was the founder of the scientific method, but it has gone a long way since then. In practice, we use the latest most modern scientific method.

[-] 0 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

http://www.scientificmethod.com/sm5_smhistory.html Nether one of them founded it. “Even while Bacon was philosophizing, the true method was being practiced by Galileo, who, with a combination of observation, hypothesis, mathematical deduction and confirmatory experiment founded the science of dynamics." so let's agree on Galileo.

[-] -2 points by CephaIus (34) 2 years ago

http://www.scientificmethod.com/sm5_smhistory.html Nether one of them founded it. “Even while Bacon was philosophizing, the true method was being practiced by Galileo, who, with a combination of observation, hypothesis, mathematical deduction and confirmatory experiment founded the science of dynamics." so let's agree on Galileo.

Sure, as you wish. We could even say that some people before Galileo used the scientific method in one form or another. I usually pick René Descartes as the founder because he was the first to clarify it in detail in his Discourse on the Method.

[-] 0 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

Fact is Rene was not even close to the first to "clarify" it.

Clarify

1: to make (as a liquid) clear or pure usually by freeing from suspended matter

2: to free of confusion <needs time to clarify his thoughts>

3: to make understandable <clarify a subject>

Me and others don't like his philosophy because it brings ones self into the equation, when it does not matter how you feel or perceive anything reality is reality. Anyway this has nothing to do with anything important so i will just end this now.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Unite in common cause. Hate the things that are wrong in this world. Support each-other in making things right. This is where the healing will begin.

The Government of "The People" by "The People" for "The People"

We are the 99%. Take part in "The Peoples" Lobby.

Take action. See samples of how below.

196,030 signatures so far for Bernie Sanders petition as of 9:40am central time 01/27/2012

http://sanders.enews.senate.gov/mail/util.cfm?mailaction=clickthru&gpiv=2100081904.557411.411&gen=1&mailing_linkid=34578

The petition to save abandoned houses has 16 signatures. We picked one up at around 11:07am 01/16/2012. Were just rolling right along.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Savingpeople-savinghomes-payingdowntheNationaldeficit/

Here is a place where you can directly address change. Take part, it does not hurt and may very well heal/help. Forward the cause of reform and rebirth.

http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/Ag8nw/zL2Q/B18Bb

Sierra Club has some good things to take part in as well. Set-up and ready for you to take part in. http://sierraclub.org/

[-] -1 points by Kirby (104) 2 years ago

The whole damn world has experienced forced slavery from the beginning of time. The roman empire used slavery to build it's empire. The Egyptians were barbaric and built the empire on slaves, many Jewish. The Barbary pirates enslaved hundreds of thousands of people, many white Americans, and Europeans who refused to pay duty to pass their coasts. Get over our history. It was a black eye and is history.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Again never forget - never repeat. We need to always remember injustice, and we need to understand how it comes about. In every civilization that we have information on. If something makes you feel bad because it happened, that is good, feeling bad may help you to prevent a repeat.

[-] -1 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

Sign a petition to do what exactly? What does this even pertain to? The Constitution was great once it included all. Unfortunately our country abandon it some time ago.

edit i will sign now, minimize petition to read txt

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Open the petition and enlighten yourself as to what it pertains to. Just because you open it does not mean you have to sign it.

By the way in case you have not noticed. That is why we are here ( the true supporters anyway ) to reclaim the Constitution and the Government.

So if you are a true supporter you will have no problem with taking part in this petition.

[-] 1 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

I am asking because the Teaparty for a large part wants to save the constitution to. "That is why we are here ( the true supporters anyway ) to reclaim the Constitution and the Government." That is exactly what the teaparty said same words and all. The teaparty people are just old for the most part and got duped.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I'm not going to argue with you. Not about the tea party and its motives. I am here to advocate for the saving of our Country by uniting in common cause, not by being divisive. So look into the petition or not. It's your choice.

[-] 1 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

You are trying to be "divisive" just by this thread. Separating TP from OWS instead of finding the common ground the constitution. You are not slick!!!!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

No I am supporting the cause of truth in history, so that future generations do not allow repeat horrors out of ignorance. Go label someone else who might care about your opinion of them and their motivations.

[-] 1 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

Show me where they deny slavery happened?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Do your own homework. I do not have time for your bullshit.

Hell contact: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/832/059/947/#taf if you are looking for an education. Then go to the source and ask. They will likely be able to give you more complete information than I.

[-] 0 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

DKA please paste the txt to the thread body

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Done.

[-] 0 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

You know, i just noticed since you pressed the issue that the petition overlays the text making it real hard to see. I will sign now, with a suggestion of striking the teaparty name from it. The reason is many diehard TPers won't sign it because of that. Also please put a note on your thread to close the petition part to read the text... or how ever you want to word it.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

MEMPHIS, Tenn. (WVLT) -- Tennessee teachers shouldn't talk about American slavery and race together. That's what the State's Tea Party is saying.

Its on of a list of the five legislative priorities presented to state legislators by several Tennessee tea parties, includes a proposal to eliminate from history books references to the Founding Fathers owning slaves or encroaching on Native American lands, originally reported by a Memphis newspaper. Click here to find out more!

We talked to Tea Party leader Hal Rounds Wednesday. He described the way slavery is taught now as race-baiting. When asked if kids are walking out of school thinking our founding fathers were evil, he said "(The kids) are being taught (the Founding Fathers) were hypocrites and slave owners and part of the teachings about slavery was that it was inherently cruel."

Have a nice day.

[-] 0 points by BannedForTruth (233) from Christiana, TN 2 years ago

I found it and admitted WRONG i will sign.... my bad

[-] -1 points by CephaIus (34) 2 years ago

That's unbelievable. The TEA party just lost all my support.

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