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Forum Post: We can't lose the post office

Posted 1 year ago on Aug. 12, 2013, 12:41 p.m. EST by GirlFriday (17435)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The Post Office was founded July 26, 1775, by the Continental Congress to provide public mail service. Today, private companies like Pitney Bowes are salivating over the prospect of grabbing a chunk of this highly successful business, with $69 billion in annual revenues.

They hate the fact that in 1970 the postal workers took their destiny into their own hands and shut down the entire mail system for the better part of a week, demonstrating the power of the workers and disrupting business as usual. And the 1970 nationwide postal strike taught another lesson: that the wealth of the 1 Percent only exists because the 99 Percent creates it for them.

The nation's largest employer is Walmart. The employer class would dearly love to reduce those 574,000 postal workers to Walmart wages and non-union status. But just because they want it, doesn't mean they'll get it. Read the rest here


Tidbit on that PitneyBowes http://news.pb.com/press-releases/apollo-global-management-to-acquire-management-services-business-from-pitney-bowes.htm

So, here is some information on APG http://www.agm.com/Home.aspx

So, guess who is a senior adviser to APG? http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/former-senator-bayh-joins-apollo/

Ya this former senator: The soulless sold-out skin-sack doing business under the name "Evan Bayh," says that the "far left" is the same sort of monstrous people are the "far right" because wanting millions of more people to have insurance through something like single-payer is DEFINITELY the same thing as wanting millions of more people to have less health care coverage.

And the soulless sold-out skin-sack doing business under the name "Evan Bayh," like Dim Scott, also misquotes Max Baucus. It is like a Hack Pundit Pileup. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/21/sunday-morning-liveblog_n_3631195.html

UPS ownes Issa. PitneyBowes (or APG) ownes Bayh. Who ownes Lieberman?

121 Comments

121 Comments


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[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

The Post Office would be fine if Congress weren't requiring it to fully fund their pensions for 75 years. Most corporate pension plans are miserably underfunded while stockholders are running off with the money. These Congressmen and women see opportunity here. If they can bring down the Post Office the stocks of these companies that provide similar services will soar and they know it. So, what do you think they are doing?

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Yep. I have repeatedly said the same thing. However, there is current speculation on one of the above listed making a run.
http://www.nuvo.net/GuestVoices/archives/2013/07/29/10-million-reasons-to-speculate-about-evan-bayh#.UgzAsW1aSeM

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 1 year ago

Looks like UPS is the one on the ALEC board.

Here's where their money is going:

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000081

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 1 year ago

UPS and FedEx donate heavily to both parties. You can bet your last postage stamp that they are the ones that are pushing that nonsense 75 year plan through. I believe one of them is on the board for ALEC as well.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

How do the American people sit by and snooze while this is going on? Are they really that brainwashed?

[-] 5 points by LeoYo (5757) 1 year ago

Not brainwashed. They, like most of humanity throughout history, are simply that apathetic. They have the same access to various forms of information as everyone here does. They have the same ability to vote or not to vote on principle instead of on popularity or ideological affiliation as the few who do. If some advocate a flat earth, it's not because they don't have access to information that refutes it. If some advocate the notion of an intelligent design as being actual science, it's not because they're unaware of objective information that exposes such a notion. And if most sit by and snooze while the world is crumbling down around them, it's not because criminal opposition to the Postal Service, criminal foreclosures, criminal banker bailouts, criminal government spying, etc. aren't being reported on Fox News. It's because people have a "Don't worry, be happy" attitude that keeps the majority apathetic so long as they don't see the misfortune befalling others as being a threat to themselves. It's worse than boiling a live frog because the frog doesn't even comprehend what's happening to him.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

Something disturbing happened which is related to this. Lately, I've been unable to watch rt.com (Russian Television). No matter where I travel to in the Northeast, it doesn't come in well, it's choppy and broken up. So, I can't watch my favorite shows like "Breaking the Set" and "The Kaiser Report" among others. But, this past week-end I went to Canada and lo and behold, with the very same computer, just by crossing the border, bingo! I was able to watch RT.

This is not a scientific study at all but I think it does show that, in part, the American people are taught, or led, to be apathetic. I think the "Don't worry, be happy" attitude is pushed by TPTB and MSM. I do get what you are saying though, and don't disagree, especially with regard to people only caring for themselves, but that is kind of taught too, isn't it?

[-] 7 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

i have been experiencing the same things you describe concerning watching "The Kaiser Report" and others. At the same time, I have noticed that the MSM national and local news are focusing on fires, floods, and "feel good" news stories in order to keep calm and carry on.

Meanwhile, Chris Hedges predicts years of war in Egypt, traders are beginning to insist on actual delivery of gold, etc. The BRICS nations are leaving the dollar but the house of cards is standing for now.

This forum has gone to hell, there's very few participating anymore and hope of unity is almost completely gone.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

What is happening in this country is portentous of bad things to come.

The forum is a place to lay down information. Keep up the good work and never give up. Forget about the b.s. that goes on here and use this place for what it is, one of the main faces of Occupy on the internet.

And, don't forget that Occupy has changed the conversation in this country in a profound way, and that is why this forum is constantly under attack.

And, for posterity http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

I will never give up but admit this forum has been disappointing recently. If collapse is imminent, Occupy should be fighting for justice until the final moments. We are not together here, we are factions and there is no need for outside attacks, we attack ourselves. The reflections of accomplishments is fine, and we still share good information, but we should cooperate for bigger goals.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

A lot of the infighting here is instigated from outsiders. Divide and conquer. It's been a strategy used for many millennia. I wish people could see this because you are right, occupiers have been attacking occupiers here. It's insane.

This forum is not about our egos, it's about the 99%! Posters don't have to be right and have all the answers, they just have to be contributing to the fight.

I mean, of course we will all have differences. Have you ever met anyone who you agree with 100% of the time? It's taken me many years to finally meet someone that I pretty much agree with all of the time. One person!

I never expect to agree completely with people who cheer for the Dems, or the libertarian types or even socialist types, but I find all of them have something to offer for the 99% and like you say, everyone here should find a way to cooperate to help bring the profound change that we need for the people.

I implore everyone here to see that we are working on the same side, and if you are truly not, if you are a troll, then look in the mirror and examine your life.

[-] 0 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

I long for the day when we all agree on a single name, but it is so true that people have differences of opinion on minor issues and you are right, we should never expect to agree 100% of the time.

I just want to be on the same team, the Occupy team, the 99% team, together.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

We can start anew. How about it folks? How about realizing that most of us are on the same page? Maybe not the same paragraph, but the same page, of the same book.

We are all for the 99%, no? We're all for the banksters going to jail, for wages to increase, for healthcare to be universal, for the spying crap to end, for the drones to end, for Glass Steagall to be reinstated, for workers' rights to be enforced, for equality for all, to end poverty, to end the foreclosures, to end disenfranchisement, to end corruption, etc etc.? Right?

[-] 2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 1 year ago

"They buy into it because they feel so oppressed in the first place working at jobs that pay barely enough to survive that any kind of liberty sounds freaking great."

That line right there is the million dollar sentence. Very very true.

This forum shows how messy democracy is. And the people here are actually more informed than most on average.

Democratically deciding things is very very tough work.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

We are all in this fight together. We can come at it from different angles but in the end we all want the same things and to get those things I think we're going to find that we need something new altogether. We need an economic system and a society that fits into the new global and information age that we live in.

[-] 2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 1 year ago

Personally I'd like to make the FDA, SEC and EPA all elected boards by the people. But I'm not sure the results would be any better than the results we currently get.

Addressing the corruption and addressing it is what brought everyone together in the first place, imo.

Once that is done and the people reaffirm their own existence as valuable contributors, we can figure out the rest.

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3158) 1 year ago

Re. 'the million dollar sentence'; great extract from a great comment by a consistently excellent poster. So in compliment to you both, please do see - http://www.nationofchange.org/abracadabra-you-re-part-timer-1377086471 Never Give Up On The 99%! Occupy Democracy, Economic Justice and Solidarity!

[+] -8 points by garyjames (-14) 1 year ago

We are all in this fight together, but we don't want all the same things. I don't the type of censored opaque world the Twinkle Team is pushing. I want a transparent world where everyone can speak their minds. I don't want hierarchy like the Twinkle Team are pushing, with users banning the words and comments of others, and deciding what should be censored and what should not. I want everyone to be on equal ground.

What we need is a forum where everyone is equal. Where people moderate for themselves, and by themselves. No moderator/user hierarchy. I have many ideas on how to implement a working system of the sort. Occupy is a new type of philosophy and deserves a forum which accommodates that new type of thinking. Everyone should be allowed to contribute, but everyone should also be allowed to read what they want and ignore what they don't want to see by personal moderation.

[-] 7 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

There is no twinkle team and never has been and everyone is allowed to post here. Look at you, you've had probably 1000 plus monikers here, you never go away. A forum moderated by you would be a place for bullying and intimidation, your modus operandi.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Uh.......no. You cannot be for workers rights and for right to work legislation. You cannot support the middle class and destroy public education, make attempts to privatize the IRS and the post office. You cannot stand there and tell me that you are all about deregulation and then claim to be against fracking.

It's like that Article V shit. It's clearly right wing propaganda. Clearly supported by the Tea Party. Hence, the liberty amendments which is clearly instigated by the ALEC.

Your solution is to pretend that this is pro 99%. It isn't.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

Rather than slamming the door in the face of a libertarian, I much prefer to discuss why their solutions are bad, because, in all honesty, I don't think many of them really understand what the consequences are. They have no idea of the devastation that Austrian economics would bring to society. And, in the end, most of them are merely interested in creating a better society. They are just looking at different ways to go about it.

I'm a socialist, by the way, and you write up there as if I am against public education and for privatizing the IRS and the post office, etc. So, not really appreciating that because that couldn't be farther from the truth for me.

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Nope, no change. Otherwise it wouldn't still be an orchestrated effort.

I intend to do my thing.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

It can still be an orchestrated effort and change could still have occurred. If what you say is true, then your strategy isn't working either. But, I think all of our strategies together are important and are making a difference.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

You can bullshit some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

In reply to your post below: You asked that question well over a year ago. I can see how that brought them 'round. It didn't. There is a reason that it didn't. You are well aware of this.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

Oh, you are aware of every libertarian, are you? I've seen change in some of the regulars here and I know that education is the best way. And, we reach far more people that just those that post here.

You do your thing and I'll do mine.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

I'm pretty sure that they do understand. Otherwise, there wouldn't be such a concentrated effort. Ya? Or do we just treat them like puppies that treat the world around them like one big chew toy?

They understand perfectly. Especially those that profess to be in their thirties to sixties. It's orchestrated. You are aware of this. I'm not going to pat them on their head. I don't buy the feigned innocence gig.

I don't buy the denial either.

I'm just speaking from the heart.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

I always like to challenge libertarians to this: Ask your fearless leaders, Lew Rockwell, the Paul's, the Kochs, those at the Cato Institute and Heritage Foundation, etc. this question:

"If you want to have a truly libertarian economic society, would you be willing to level out all of the wealth in America before doing so as this would be the only fair way to institute that economic system with everyone on a level playing field?"

The answer would be a resounding no, of course, because the leaders of libertarianism, the ones who really would benefit from a society with zero regulations on a free-wheeling capitalist society are the ones who already own capital!

These people are not stupid. They know damn well that they will start out the race ahead of the masses because they have the capital and they will wipe the masses up off the floor. So, what do they do? They pull regular people in with sexy stuff like "You will be free to have as many guns as you want." "You can smoke pot and do drugs if you want." "You won't have to send your kids to school if you don't want to." etc etc. And, regular people buy into this social crap that they spew. They buy into it because they feel so oppressed in the first place working at jobs that pay barely enough to survive that any kind of liberty sounds freaking great.

But, what the regular people don't get is that that is just a way to pull them in, what true libertarians are really after is control of the economy. They want to own every single one of us. And, in a free-wheeling unregulated capitalist economy, that is exactly what we will have. Most of the regular people following that ideology just don't get this. That is honestly what I think. And, it is very important that we educate people to understand how deleterious an unregulated capitalist system would be.

[-] 3 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

Many of them do understand and participate in the orchestration. They are evil in my book. Many more of them do not understand because circumstances in their life have always been ok and they've yet to learn things we have known for years. These people are not evil and could be part of us, we just have to help them and wait for them. I hope their enlightenment comes quickly, and they find forgiveness here, not bitterness.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

redistribution of the money

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

Great idea!

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

those with money won't like it

a tax system could avoid sudden transitions

[-] 0 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

We can all agree on many things and being on the same page is exactly the analogy we need. We really can't expect to create a genuine movement unless we act with solidarity. All we have to do is look back on other inspirational movements to see the truth of the necessity of solidarity.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

Exactly. We can't send people packing because we don't agree with them about every single issue. We're all on a journey here.

[+] -4 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Trouble is, BW, after all this time together, those issues that brought us all together, have been hashed out and worked through.

Without something new to take up the fight, things tend to devolve into mud-slinging matches.

It's sad, but true.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

Well, too bad for the 99% then, because too many people here put their egos above what we should be doing which is continuing to educate about the issues. This squabbling is just simply ridiculous. Every point of view has value because if you disagree with a point of view it provides an opportunity to discuss and debate. It doesn't have to be personal. We really don't know each other at all so getting personal is inane.

[+] -4 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It certainly is ridiculous, and futile.

We may not know eachother on a personal level, but on a debate level, assumptions get made, and criticisms get made. It's human nature when it comes to regular interaction on a debate forum. I've seen this time and time again.

I've attempted to be civil, most of my time here. Got a bit personal with that many-faceted character, Illusionman, but he/she seems to gone the way of the dodo.

[-] 6 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

But, you see, even Illusionman, was ultimately on the side of the 99%. This is what we need to see clearly, that we may not agree, I freaking hate libertarianism and Austrian economics, but those people have something to contribute. I'm not too fond of Obama these days, either, but those who defend the Dems have something to contribute as well. I want all those people here. They all stand for the 99%.

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

There aren't many people here anymore. In the past, activists actually had to go meet at someone's house to discuss their causes, but we now have the ability to communicate with people from down under, lol.

We don't know how long our cause will take but we can know it's worthwhile. Otherwise, we just devolve into a gossip or debate site.

[-] -3 points by FEARLESS (-72) 1 year ago

I agree, although we have always had strife on here due to strong points of view in dealing with contentious issues,

Now though, we have gone beyond that, and slid into an abyss of of human indecency towards each other and it is being led by the moderator, and tolerated by both him, some of us and the administration here

Just FYI I am writing this sitting outside, near the top of a mountain on a beautiful ..full moon night in Vermont, so i guess this setting has put me in a non-combative, reflective mood

Yes Builder, it is sad for me what has happened here, but there are those who revel in it

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Odin, look at this: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/frank-luntz-to-gop-the-american-people-dont-care-what-the-size-of-government-is/

and look at this:

[+] -5 points by ladisia (-29) 1 day ago

You aren't going to lose the post office. It's constitutionally mandated. It will be rightsized, but it'sll be there.

Article 1, Section, Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads; ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink


Perhaps you should take a few days off from the forum to become more in tune with your own objectivity.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

(quote) Agreed "strife is a natural part of human interaction," but the ugly ways in how that strife is manifesting itself is what the problem has been here

Just as a parent teaches a child that throwing a tantrum is unacceptable behavior, when he does not get his way, 'you all' either need an 'impartial' person here to do the same, or perhaps several people

If it is important for you to save this forum, you should take a couple days off from everything else and concentrate on that alone without all the bs (unquote)

I don't think that this is my responsibility at all, Odin. What do you think I could achieve by taking time off work to focus upon this issue?

DKA was appointed moderator by Jart, who was the creator of this page, and, I assume, continues to keep the page on the web.

I am not in daily discourse with either of these people.

Why would you think that I am?

[-] -3 points by FEARLESS (-72) 1 year ago

Sorry Builder, I didn't mean "you" in particular, and in fact edited it to "you all" or anyone who is interested in saving this forum

I do not believe it can be saved with the current biased moderator who promotes and tolerates the ugly discord on here

So I am not including 'me', nor 'we' until this moderator is gone, and that is unlikely

I'm not exactly giving up on it though. I will just use other channels to try and save this forum. That's all.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Strife is a natural part of interaction.

If we were all in agreement, the rot would have set in back in 2011.

As for those who "revel in it", I'm concerned for their future, once this place is closed to further discourse, as it surely seems to be destined.

[+] -4 points by FEARLESS (-72) 1 year ago

Agreed "strife is a natural part of human interaction," but the ugly ways in how that strife is manifesting itself is what the problem has been here

Just as a parent teaches a child that throwing a tantrum is unacceptable behavior, when he does not get his way, 'you all' either need an 'impartial' person here to do the same, or perhaps several people

If it is important for you to save this forum, you should take a couple days off from everything else and concentrate on that alone without all the bs

[-] -2 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 1 year ago

I agree that we cannot stop doing what is good about this forum because of negative people. Actually, I think it is important to know how others think -- what bothers them the most, especially -- because whatever people accuse of others doing or being, if not accurate, is their reflection. Remain steadfast and respond with calm, intelligent curiosity.

[-] -3 points by FEARLESS (-72) 1 year ago

"Remain steadfast and respond with calm, intelligent curiosity."

The 'problem' is ....that is not happening, nor can it ever happen when you have a moderator that does not promote that

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 1 year ago

Maybe the moderator(s) could set up a "post" to which all deleted comments are sent; they can still be read, but out of the way of the thread under which it originally posts. I really dislike arbitrary deletion. Or do they already do that somewhere that I am not aware of?

[Removed]

[+] -8 points by ladisia (-44) 1 year ago

Truth is, this place shares SELECTIVE information.

If you aren't towing the OWS line, it's a whole different story. And yes, OWS does have a line.

It can be found at www.dnc.org

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (7010) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Interesting position do you really think the DNC has embraced fully the OWS creed? Or are you just trying to convince us that the DNC is in perfect alignment for the purpose of co-opting the movement?

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

I would be afraid to be a room alone with our president

I don't trust him

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Oh?

well you just go there and stay then.

No use in your being here, obviously.

[-] 0 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

There's good information shared here sometimes. Your link may be the line of a faction that posts here but OWS is against corporatism, the only real party in existence. Your comments aren't helpful.

[+] -7 points by ladisia (-44) 1 year ago

No, my comments are very helpful. They may make you uncomfortable, but the truth often does.

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

I haven't read many of your comments but the response to my post was not helpful because i was trying to create unity from the different factions. Truth is powerful but not without comprehension of the issue.

[+] -9 points by ladisia (-44) 1 year ago

Cobble 15 factions full of BS together and whaddya get? A big pile!

Sometimes it steams too.... right here at www.occupywallst.org

[+] -5 points by FEARLESS (-72) 1 year ago

It's important to realize that this forum is not only under attack from the 'right', but from the left too

And in the end, they are both part of the corrupt elite

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

I get that, however, I don't care. I honestly don't care. Because no one is going to stop this movement. This movement is coming from the bottom up. They can attack all they like but they can't change the facts. They can't change the fact that the average American earns $26,000 per year and that 49 million have no health insurance and that our life expectancy is 37th in the world and that 22% of our kids live in poverty and that Americans live with overwhelming debt, that RT.com is unavailable, that they spy on us, etc etc. etc.

Oh, I know there are plenty of people fighting for the status quo. But, there are millions more who need deeper change. Revolutions and even just change, watershed change, can take several decades. We've been planting the seeds here and those who want the status quo really don't like that. They know that seeds grow.

[-] 5 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

It's a fun little game that you guys like to play but it sure as hell is not true.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

I don't play games. I speak what I feel.

[-] 5 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Right because this forum has continuously been under attack from the left.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

You think that is not true at all? What is the "left" to you? I have seen many Dem defenders attacking people like hchc and Trevor, people with libertarian tendencies but who lean more toward this movement certainly, than against it. And, if we are the 99% how can we turn people like that away?

[-] 4 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

I kinda miss trevor.

We locked horns, but sometimes found ourselves eye to eye.

I don't know if he was banned, or he just left.

hchc's a name calling __ and he's still here and still insulting people.

Personally?

Although I didn't always care for VQ, all of those that ganged up on him are on my shit list.

Because they DID gang up on him.

And now that same gang has chased DK off too.

[-] 7 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

I want them all back, including VQ. He was a warrior for the 99%. I didn't agree with all his Dem b.s. but that's just me. And, do I know that I am right about anything? No. So, I'd like them all to come back. Dems, libertarians, all of 'em. We need them all. And, DKA should just come back he has nothing to worry about. He has lots of friends here.

And, regarding King Troll, the saddest person on earth, I think it is time to shun him. Shunning works. It's an ancient method. You see, TPTB are not going to stop paying him and his little friends to come here and kick up the s--t so it is up to us to shun him.

[Removed]

[+] -4 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

VQ was not 'ganged up' on.

He was singled out, on separate occasions, by myself, and others.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

the bot that attacked DK could still be running.

Go ahead and check and you'll find his count under 10,000.

All of those that refused to condemn the people that did that, are on my shit list as well.

All of those that have used the term twinkleteam are also there and highly suspect.

So what do we do about a gang that hides in plain sight?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

The moderators should reinstate all of DKA's points. I only learned of that today because I've been busy and not here as much as I'd like to be. I hope he comes back. Anyone who uses bots should be banned permanently, period. But, permanent banning doesn't seem to be a possibility as we know from our resident troll.

Do you know who is running those bots? If so, they should be banned.

I, personally, think it is our main troll who has done that in the past. I also think it was he who coined the term "twinkle team" originally. I think he has used divide and conquer here very successfully which is not really hard given all the Dem vs. Libertarian dichotomy among us. I honestly don't think anyone else has the programming skills to run bots, but enlighten me if you know who has done this.

[-] -1 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

Let's call a truce and become the same gang together. Together we can fight outsiders that come here for no good.

[Removed]

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Nope. Dem defenders? What is decentralization to you? What is Right to work legislation to you? No, Jeremy always has the ability to step in and actually argue the issue. That's insane.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

I'm not opposed to a truce, but honesty on the part of those that partook in the attacks will be a necessary prerequisite.

Reality doesn't just go away, and there are many they chased off that will never return.

They are who truly compromised the forums integrity, with bots, puppets and attacks on liberals.

The conse(R)vatives were never here in support anyway, yet those that went after VQ and DK never say a word about them.

NO

Their attacks are strictly against those they identify as liberal.

so what am I to think?

At this point, I will not accept the onus of forming this truce.

It's on them.

I'm a lot more reasonable then some would have you believe, but I think that that level of honesty is required and I don't think it's too much to ask.

[-] 0 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

Shooz, I don't even know if I'm "them" or not but I'm ready to be honest and accept you as reasonable. I'm ready to forgive...and become friends instead of foes. I don't mind taking the first steps.

That level of honesty is required and not to much to ask. I humbly ask you to accept this truce in the spirit of Occupy.

[-] -2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 1 year ago

Occupiers dont have a problem with Dem supporters for being "liberal", they have problems with them supporting a fascist system.

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[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Don't know who you are, but I agree that this whole scenario is totally phukked up.

Points seem to be behind the jealousy and hypocrisy, so let's just lose them.

All of them. Now. How hard could that possibly be? I've done a few forums before, and it really can't be too much of a stretch. Unless certain plebians are too attached to their scores? Comment 'ca?

[-] 4 points by LeoYo (5757) 1 year ago

Throughout the ancient world in both hemispheres, tyranny reigned supreme over subjects who never maintained a defense against it. It didn't matter what their culture or religion was or their level of technology, once an urban dominating society had developed, people allowed the injustice of the few to dominate their lives.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

But then again, you have revolutions that occur that bring watershed change. Any ideas how to overcome the stratification that causes the imbalanced power relationship?

[-] 6 points by LeoYo (5757) 1 year ago

Revolutions are mainly a change in tyranny.

The imbalance comes mainly from how we live in urban society. Once people are no longer self-sustaining, there will be economic dependency and economic misfortune resulting in poverty and a community of haves and have-nots with tyranny from the ruling haves.

Agrarian micropolitan cites composed of very large family owned city blocks that can never be bought or sold would allow people to be self-sustaining without having to give up the advantages of urban interaction. Being self-sustaining results in a social independence conscious of maintaining social and individual liberties in a community of equals.

It's a matter of returning to the egalitarian village way of life while retaining the advantages of urban interaction.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

Creating self-sustaining livelihoods is one answer to overcoming the tyranny under which we find ourselves. An egalitarian society in which people can live without fear would be very efficient. There is always enough to go around, but when it is spread out unevenly it leaves surplus with some and sparsity with others which causes all sorts of ills.

I like your idea of urban renewal in a sort of ancient way. Very cool.

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 1 year ago

Thats a very interesting solution.

[-] -1 points by summerbummer (-33) 1 year ago

Indeed. That's really outtathebox thinking!

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 1 year ago

You've missed another great day of occupiers pleading to be treated as equals on the site.

I'm going to chill out for a while: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llun0aB7c_Q

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

No one ever said the battle for the rights of the 99% was gonna be easy.

[-] -1 points by forourfutures (393) 1 year ago

Without free speech they cannot be informed and unify. Corporations have media to lie and mislead with.

To be free, to retain the rights of Americans we need to agree on the principals of it.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

Breaking the barriers of propaganda is our biggest battle.

[-] -2 points by forourfutures (393) 1 year ago

Yep, propaganda is misleading and the media propaganda is self supporting in commercial zeal by corporations.

Propaganda promises of a political nature invoke idealism that often has roots in fantasy. I noticed many years ago that any detail leading to the goal was quite sparse.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20882) 1 year ago

We live in corporate tyranny. It's a new type of tyranny, 21st-century style.

[-] 1 points by forourfutures (393) 1 year ago

Psycho-corp tyranny. Where corps sponser psyops to create profits and comiance to increasing slavery.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

we could vote using our names

[-] 0 points by forourfutures (393) 1 year ago

That'll work.(?)

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

I'm not sure it's ever been tried

there's fear that people won't speak their conscious

if they fear social retribution.

...

group dynamics have changed though due to global communication

[-] 0 points by forourfutures (393) 1 year ago

We already use our names to vote, but our vote is confidential rather than public for that reason. Perhaps petitions could define blocks of voter opinion parallel to their vote in order to demonstrate reasonable accountability.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

the vote needs to be public if we are to trust the results

[-] 0 points by forourfutures (393) 1 year ago

It is, but a citizen has to go in and formally ask to see it. Not quite confidential. Reasonably secured against in appropriate use is closer. This is how vote fraud is exposed historically. That is why the paper record is good.

The automation can work for the vote but the control over it has to be different. As in, software and counting.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

nope

people should vote with their name name

[-] 0 points by forourfutures (393) 1 year ago

Consider how easy reprisals would be for the corporations if they could send a lackey into find out who voted for something that cost them a $ them go threaten them. Citizens currently vote with their name, then that is secured from unreasonable use. This also provides an absolute check on their existence with a location that can be verified.

Are you saying the citizens name should be on the ballot and that the way they voted should also be public?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

It is near impossible to threaten a specific voter block without everyone seeing the corporation doing it.

a corporation would loss power if the public voted against them

[-] 5 points by Nevada1 (4650) 1 year ago

The United States Postal Service must be saved. Corporations destroy everything they touch.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Who owns Lieberman?

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[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

good call

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (7010) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

nor education, nor healthcare opps...

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[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28241) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

We can't lose the post office

Of course not - who could possibly want to do such a thing - OH - yeah - like everything else - it will be done 2.....um....4 us.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Losing the USPS was the (R)epelican'ts aim.

They just want to sell off the juicy bits though.

"There’s a really dirty war going on behind the scenes between the Postal Service and the right-wing. In the land of despicable Republican political practices I don’t think I find anything more despicable than what the GOP is already doing to the nation’s postal employees. Taking full advantage of an errant legislative move nearly 7 years ago before things collapsed completely, Congress brought us the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006 (PAEA) by unidentifiable voice vote. That precipitated the current crisis.

This act called for the pre-funding in the course of a mere decade of some 75 years of retiree health care benefits, decimating the USPS budget. Without that ridiculous politicized mandate the Postal Service would be running a surplus today. Some 4 out of every 5 dollars of postal debt can be tracked to PAEA."

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/08/30/postal-service-death-republicans.html

Ah, yes. It's libe(R)tarian drive to sell off the commons, wherever it's profitable and leave the rest to the tax payers.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Since I get attacked for commenting on unions and things.

I'll just provide the OWS link.

http://occupywallstreet.net/story/what-it%E2%80%99s-all-about-war-workers-goes-post-office

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Well, it's like I always say.......fuck 'em.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

"Attacking public employees

There is one partial exception to all this bad news and that is the public sector. While American business and the corporate sector have generally been at war with the American worker — shifting wealth and productivity gains upward rather than distributing them throughout the economy — public-sector workers have retained most of their benefits and have seen wages at least stay level with inflation.

Paying workers in the public sector a decent wage sets a bad example, so the corporate elite and the Right have mounted an all-out attack by pushing for cuts in the workforce and cuts in wages and benefits. One of the reasons unemployment has been so stubborn, even as the economy improves, is that job gains in the private sector have been offset by job cuts in the public sector. Head count at the Postal Service is down more than 200,000 since 2005, and there have been similar losses in Federal, State, and Local governments across the country. A generation of efforts by American business to erode the share of income flowing to labor has been successful, and now attention has been turned to the public sector."

I was attacked just yesterday for defending public unions.

I was called anti tax payer.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

By whom?

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Some troll or another.

I guess I'm feeling a bit over sensitive today.....:)

\But I do get tired of dealing with those attitudes over and over, and never do I see those that claim to be deep in the movement come to my defense.

Not once.

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

There is a very good reason for that.

They are deep in the movement. A bowel movement.

[-] 4 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

They will on the other hand, claim to be "not anti-union".

Not once have I seen even one of them come to the defense of unions.

And they NEVER notice, or report on things like this.

http://wepartypatriots.com/wp/2013/08/23/boeings-wage-slashing-move-to-sc-backfires-as-company-cant-meet-787-production-demand/

Not once.

They spend more time with the soap opera of the banned, than defending the 99%..

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

In case I haven't said it today.........Chris is a wanker.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

That would, of course, be towards a more energetic conversation that went somewhere. Like I said, a bowel movement.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Not one has commented in defense of the USPS either.

They are more likely to come to the defense it's dismantling.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

This is the same group of people that were vocally against it albeit currently under different alts.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Oh, several.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Nasty little trolls.

[+] -8 points by ladisia (-44) 1 year ago

You aren't going to lose the post office. It's constitutionally mandated. It will be rightsized, but it'sll be there.

Article 1, Section, Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Is that a new right wing key word?

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