Forum Post: Violent Anarchists!!!
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 23, 2011, 7:43 a.m. EST by rayl
(1007)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
during the american revolution the patriots were considered anarchists by the british crown.
the boston TEA PARTY was a violent destructive action to symbolize disrespect for unjust governance.
and now...
Instigator, violence is the tool of the fool, who doesn't realize ,every gun they are pointing,three are pointing back..Non violence frustrates those who lust after violence.. Attacking innocent unarmed people is a serious crime,and viewed by the most part of awakened humanity as barbaric and cruel..
Maybe someone who knows more about history and politics (I am more of a science guy) can explain something to me: why do we call it the American Revolution? My understanding of a revolution is that it is an attempt to overthrow the government. But the founding fathers were not trying to overthrow King George or the British parliament, they just wanted to be left alone. Is that not correct? It seems to me it was a war of secession, maybe similar to the Civil War (or "War Between the States" or as my southern friends call it, only partly tongue in cheek, "The War of Northern Aggression"). Was the American Revolution really a "revolution"? (Or am I just getting bogged down in semantics?)
One successful secession and one failed one. No actual revolution as yet in America.
King George was their government. Making him let them alone/not be their government was the revolution.
Afraid that you are getting bogged down in terminology. Perhaps the distance between the Colonies and Britain is making it harder to understand. The Colonies were a possession of England. We didn't want to be owned. We wanted to form our own government. So - it was a revolution.
He was possibly confused because the government of England was not toppled after the revolution, i.e. it still governed England. It is a subgroup that wanted to separate itself from this government, hence the idea of secession. It was a revolution for the Americans, but England remained.
Ah, good point!
Your getting bogged down in semantics. You are technically right.
Thanks, I kind of suspected that. I think I have a bit of OCD.
welcome to the club. ha
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Who knows? Occupy did use the epithet "Days of Rage" in some of their posters, an epithet which refers to the violent "Days of Rage" protests of Chicago in 1969. It seems strange to me that a non-violent movement like Occupy would want to associate itself with a known violent protest.
http://usdayofrage.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Days_of_Rage
skirting the theme? did the patriots do the tea party or not?
They sure did. And who did they fight against? The loyalists and the aristocracy. That means that if you are supporting our patriot fathers, then the Americans should rise up against the big government liberals and destroy them. You support that? Since you obviously support our patriot founders who did the same thing. Is it possible to have some other type of revolution that is not violent? Maybe a revolution in the court system, where we put our entire government on trial for their abuses. What a concept in a civilized society huh?
Want to know why that is? Because OWS leaders are talking to the Serbian Revolutionaries who have created a cottage industry advising radical groups all around the world, in how to overthrow the government. These images are right out of their playbook. The most recognizable one is the clenched Fist that is seen in many other countries and has been seen associated with OWS. The Serbian revolutionaries are advising many of these radical decisions.
Geesh, all the clench fist means is POWER TO THE PEOPLE!
Dont be so naive. It is a sign of militancy and has historically stood for marxism.
Whatever, & the swastika represented eternity in Buddhism.
Yes, the clench fist was also part of the 1969 Chicago protests. Here is on of their posters back from 1969.
Why do you think Occupy wants to create an association with the Egyptian protest? Do you think they hope to compare the American police with the military over there? I know some protesters in Egypt have started to use molotov cocktails and I thought Occupy would dissociate themselves with them since they have stopped being non-violent. But, the opposite seems to be happening. The news coverage of the Egyptian protest has started being more active on this site since the protest over there has become violent. I find this rather odd. No?
That symbol is one of militancy. That is not a non violent premise. Here is information about Otpor. The serbian group advising the OWS along with 37 other country's revolutionaries including Egypt. Look at the symbol at this link, and tell me you have not seen the exact same one on an OWS sign, The exact same version on egyptian signs. So far they claim 5 successes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otpor!
Your link claims Otpor only existed between 1998-2003. What makes you think they still exist today? And what proof do you have that they are connected to Occupy?
read the entire link. They have moved onto being recognized for their revolutionary tactics. Look them up online, they are now in the revolution consulting business. It was on 60 minutes or some show like that recently.
Ah OK. So, do you think Occupy will succeed in starting a civil war and making the current government collapse, or do you think they will be stopped by the government first?
No i don't think they will succeed. To many reasonable people will not support the calls to destroy the government. I do think that there is going to be violence and that the police are going to keep cracking down. I really think the winter is going to kick their ass in New York and they will have to disperse. I have visited 5 different city OWS movements here in the south where it is warm. They aren't out there everyday. They only go on the weekends maybe. And the support is small. People need leadership, and when the leaders hide because their real message is so radical it is doomed to failure. Without the violence the OWS marxists are not going to gain enough traction. Myself and others have actually suggested spinning off the people into a more reasoned and defined approach of election reform. Something alot of people would get behind, and could participate in by signature and a vote. Much more achievable.
Because the marxist leaders behind OWS don't want it to be non violent. They sit in their little groups and prey upon the ignorance of the protestors. Their leaders want violence. They want to see the people beat up and shot. It plays right into their message that the government is oppressive. This is not a new tactic for revolutionaries or radicals. It has been done over and over again, and the OWS supporters who are going along with it are sheep. Why do you think the OWS leaders don't want to name a leader, but are at the same time taking advice from the Serbian Revolutionaries who are all about violence? Think that is a coincidence? The movement was to stop the corruption on Wall Street. That starts in Washington. OWS needs to ditch these radical marxists, stop subjecting themselves to violence, that these people want, and go about reforming election laws, and retaking our republic from the Oligarchs.
You are saying Occupy is not planning to remain non-violent for long? That is a wild accusation! What is your proof that there is talk with the Serbian Revolutionaries? Do you have links that show the connections? Can you provide strong arguments for your claims, or is this just another conspiracy theory?
Can't find the video of the interview with the guy i saw it the other day, but he stated without any hesitation that he was advising the OWS group. Look at the WIki site and you will see that what OWS is doing is the exact same thing. Blocking up the ports? And revolutions always turn violent. That is the nature of it. These people want to completely overthrow the government and ditch the Constitution just like they are doing in other countries. If i find the video i will post it.
OK thanks. Do you think Occupy will ask their protesters to become violent at one point, or will they do like Ghandi and ask their protesters to remain non-violent until death does them in? Is is possible Occupy is using propaganda tactics to prepare its protesters with the idea of become officially violent? What was the purpose of the Tiananmen Tank posters?
They will never ask them to be violent. That is the entire key. Keep preaching non violence, incite people to get so passionate that they will eventually do something violent, or entice the police to be violent. That has already happened. it plays into their game. But as you have seen with the black bloc, they can't control everyone. They know this. So if they know they can't control all the protesters, and that not all of them are going to be so aligned, then by common sense they expect violence. Seems pretty clear to me.
So, in effect, Occupy claims to be non-violent, but are setting up situations that encourage violence to erupt with the hope that it turns into a civil war that could overthrow the current government? Do you believe it is possible for Americans do be so cunning? Oh right, you're saying the idea is from Serbs. OK, makes sense.
The idea behind inciting police violence is to turn the people against the government in mass. It even says it right there on that link i gave you if you read between the lines. Why do you think everytime the police do anything, even when justified, it is videotaped and then blown out of proportion into the must unjust form of abuse in all of human history? Look at the pepper spray thing at UC davis. Those people were sprayed because of free speech. they were sprayed for illegally occupying private property ( breaking the law), impeding a handicapped access(breaking the law), and failure to follow an order to move by the police (breaking the law). They deserved it. They very easily could have moved over onto the grass and continued their sit, and probably wouldn't have been sprayed.
Do you believe the police have been targeting minorities? In this news article: http://occupywallst.org/article/whom-do-you-serve/ Occupynews writes this paragraph:
Is this a propaganda tactic?
Absolutely. Look at the words being used. 'brutal repression', then it tails off into some vague reference to people who are 'different'. Do you really think that the police brutally repress criminal drug offenders? how about prostitutes? I would venture to say that prostitutes get beat up by their pimps much more than by the police. And what is a marginalized community? Handicapped people? oh yeh don't you see the violence against the handicapped? it is a ploy to get people to think that if they are somehow different then they are always being abused. gay and trans people? Come on. The police aren't doing that either. Those are rednecks and people with low self esteem. Most of that statement is a fabrication.
Of course Americans are that cunning. Read Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals. This is not a new idea. This has been tried and tested many times in many places around the world. It doesn't always work, but the goal is the same. government overthrow. People are generally sheep. If you are going to be a sheep playing the game of the Wall Street powerful for decades, what suddenly makes you not a sheep because you start following some idealist in a different direction?
Most protesters would argue they are not following since Occupy is organized horizontally and everyone can participate in the decision making process through the use of general assemblies which only pass decisions that reach a consensus.
You really think that's true when most of the decisions for the entire movement are being made by a few people in the New york GA? or even the smaller Spokes Council?
I wrote this post which will help you understand my position: http://occupywallst.org/forum/deconstructing-occupy-a-message-within-a-message/
http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?p=1333630
Look at post #5. This is not the video of the interview with him in Serbia when he talks about advising 37 countries in revolutionary tactics including OWS and Egypt.
We are pretty much in agreement. Why ask all the questions when you knew all the answers? I just told you that they get a lot of the planning from the Serbian Revolutionaries. great post you made.
I asked these questions so you would write the answers once more. This makes it more visible in the forum. Reinforcement is good. ;-) I also learned a thing or two by your replies. I didn't know about the Serbian connection. I'll be looking into that more deeply. Thanks.