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Forum Post: Victimizing Republicans -- new Dartmouth poll & big time lying

Posted 5 years ago on June 22, 2012, 9:29 a.m. EST by OccNoVi (415)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Professor Valentino has done a first-rate sampling Americans for their opinions on hard-ball details political issues. Responses are tagged to political parties of the respondents.


Flip down to Page 26. You get a look at a huge, ugly distortion to this country's mental health. We're talking "communal delusion" territory -- a mob psychosis phenomenon.

-- Q63: Do you believe that the following statement is true or not true? "Iraq had weapons of mass destruction when the United States invaded in 2003."

Respondents reply "TRUE" as follows:

Democrats - 15%.

Republicans - 63%.

Independents - 27%.

-- Q64: Which of the following statements best describes your views on whether Barack Obama was born in the United States or another country?

Respondents who now respond that he was not born in the United States:

Democrats - 10%.

Republicans - 64%.

Independents - 31%.

(Which I take as a measure for retailed madness. These people have been sold an outright lie. A piece of craziness.)

For both questions there are also significant numbers who say that they do not know.

Plainly and to a large extent America is now the land of Trump, Romney, Limbaugh, and Cheney. Politics has become an extension of Wall Street's traditional pastime, a betting game known as Liar's Poker.

The whole of this Dartmouth-Valentino poll deserves attention. It runs for 32 pages. It's not as complete as a full geographically-specific analytical effort. Nobody's perfect.

As a measure of ignorance, it stands by itself. Annotation to follow, hopefully.



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[-] 2 points by francismjenkins (3713) 5 years ago

Utterly amazing ... but unfortunately, it's not surprising.

[-] 2 points by HempTwister (667) from Little Rock, AR 5 years ago
[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 5 years ago

Democrats - 15%.

Republicans - 63%.

Independents - 27%.

For your example to Q63 this equals 105%. Add up the percent responses to Q64 and they equal 105% again. Then you state:

For both questions there are also significant numbers who say that they do not know."

Significant means what? Another 15 or 20% added to 105%.....125%?!?

Now who is lying? This is the way math is now taught?

The whole of this Dartmouth-Valentino poll deserves attention.

Not if the pollsters can't add correctly.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 5 years ago

How embarrassing for you. I guess Math was not taught so well in your time huh?

[-] 0 points by OccNoVi (415) 5 years ago

Did Iraq have WMDs in 2003 ???

15% of Democrats think TRUE.

63% of Republicans think TRUE.

27% of Independents think TRUE.

The totals would add up to 100% within their pools -- 100% of Democrats, 100% of Republicans, 100% of Independents. Response percentages could total 300% across pools -- "Are you alive ?" for example.

Or 0%. "Are you dead ?"

Geo's innumeracy indicated that he or she should sign up to replay 6th grade next September. Sorry about that.

As an alternative, there's Khan Academy online.

[-] 0 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 5 years ago

How one presents data is extremely important. Your lack of clarity in presenting data in the first post speaks volumes.

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 5 years ago

Please, get a life.


[-] -2 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 5 years ago

Does it ever occur to liberals that they just might be the victims of the 'big lie'? In the runup to Iraq all US politicians were privy to the same intelligence as the administration. Here's all the major Democrats of the day talking about WMD including Bill Clinton so if WMD is a big lie, it started under Democrats.


The 'big lie' is that there were no WMD and Bush somehow lied us into war from the future when Clinton was acting on the same intelligence as early as 1998.

Before the internet the left used to be able to get away with the big lie but now the truth is 10 seconds away if you have the intelligence to come out of your ideological fog long enough to accept reality.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 5 years ago

It's true the dems got it wrong. And many Dems bought the repub lies when repubs used those lies to bring us into an illegal iraqi war for oil.

The difference is The dems didn't start the war. They followed the repubs. Some because they bought the lies but most because they couldn't find the spine to stand up to the "weak on terror" label the repubs used so well when they exploited the 9/11 attacks.

[-] -1 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 5 years ago

I genuinely feel sorry for you. So trapped in your ideology, reality distorts for you, nothing can penetrate the fog of your politics. The fringe people here are truly fascinating, Do you know how lucky you are to live in a country rich enough and tolerant enough to allow you to prattle your idiocy? :)

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 5 years ago

Your offensive comments reflect the weakness in your arguments. Your comment excludes anything of substance. Simply insults. Please refrain from the insults. You cannot bully me into believing the things you believe in.

[-] -1 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 5 years ago

I wouldn't want to change a hair on your head. :) The point is; actual substance never get's in the way of your ideology, that's the best part! Over the last year how many thousands of people have come to OWS to see what it's all about and read the liberal moonbats who post here?

Not everyone is a crazed ideologue living in the liberal bubble. They come and see conspiracy theorists, communists, socialists, nihilists, anarchists, crackpot economic theories and other assorted disaffected types, shake their heads and chalk you up to yet another leftwing loon group.

No, I would change nothing about you, you do great work here, just not the work you had supposed. :)

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 5 years ago

You wish!

[-] -2 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 5 years ago

LOL!, you are Perfect! :)

[-] 2 points by OccNoVi (415) 5 years ago

"All US politicians were privy to the same intelligence as the administration."

Except that Cheney and Bush knew that the intel created during their years was intentionally bogus. Sure, they fooled everybody.

Feith worked for Cheney.

Doug Feith's operation out of the Pentagon did nothing but create Big Lie scams.

[-] -1 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 5 years ago

So, the Democrat participation since 1998 has been disappeared. We are at war with the East, we have always been at war with the East. What's it like to be able to ignore reality?

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 5 years ago

You're claiming that Doug Feith worked for Democrats ??????

The Likud Doug Feith. That dual-citizenship guy.

In what universe ?

[-] -1 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 5 years ago

Where did I say anything like that? Are you insane?

How did the Clinton intelligence information differ from the Bush years?

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 5 years ago

still.. its been 10+ years and the majority of republicans STILL dont know the facts. what does that tell you?

[-] 0 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 5 years ago

What facts are they unaware of?

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 5 years ago

according to the post.. 64% still dont know that bush himself said there were no WMD .


[-] 0 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 5 years ago

Are you just willfully ignorant? Where is the actual quote of Bush saying that? 500 chemical warheads were found in Iraq but that didn't fit the liberal narrative so people on sites like this can conveniently avoid reality. Don't you people ever get embarrassed? :)


[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

Oh yeah. and those warheads are the things that turn into biological mushroom clouds when you drop them from drones flying over the East coast, right?



http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2010/11/ap-iraq-bush-says-he-was-sick-about-finding-no-wmd-110910/ If you don't like these sources re Bush look at the Correspondents dinner, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvliUuXjbL4

WMD? Not here, not there, not over there?

Actually, the "evidence" was available at the last minute to members of the intelligence committees, not all of Congress. Who would think that you could fool a member of the Senate or the House about something technical.

The big lie in this case was that the MSM all sold everyone the fraud that they are supposed to expose. Can't offend these gumment types, "We might lose our access to leakers And they love all of those Defense Contractors who spend a lot on advertizing to scare the public's pants off so they can get those weapons programs approved." Grab a slice of embarrassment there is plenty to go around.

You are glad that the Iraq War will cost us $3trillion, but none of it increased the debt, right?

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 5 years ago

are you willfully ignorant? did you not read the post.. can you not do research.. despite the obvious you cling to bullshit? OMG no wonder this country is dying.

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 5 years ago

500 empty 15-year old shells is not "WMD," much less nukes hitting Arab cities or Israel in 45 minutes.

That's dreaming.

[-] -1 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 5 years ago

But they were indeed...WMD. :)