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Forum Post: Unproductive and Heavily Indebted, The U.S. Is Decaying Under Free Trade!

Posted 1 year ago on Oct. 30, 2012, 11:17 a.m. EST by EconomyInCrisis (4)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

39 Comments

39 Comments


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[-] 4 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

According to Bernie Sanders, we've lost 60,000 factories in the last ten years. To me, that's mind-boggling. How many millions of workers does that entail? How much lost income? Thanks to our fearless leaders and their corporate stooges, America is committing slow suicide.

[-] 4 points by WSmith (1931) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Suicidal apathy. But our apathy is deliberate and contrived by those who exploit us.

[-] 5 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Absolutely. Supply the population with an endless supply of cheap toys and mindless distractions (sports and entertainment), a never-ending dose of propaganda, enough 'crises' to keep us on edge, fracture the community and family units, and voila! You've successfully turned a potentially unified population of citizens into 300 million self-absorbed, distracted, uninvolved islands. They've been at it for the better part of a century and it's worked brilliantly. But I don't think they ever anticipated the power of the internet, which, I believe has slowly turned the tide.

I also suspect the short-sighted PTB thought the American working class was going to be an endless piggy bank.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (1931) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Whatever you can suspect, the PTB have already done it.

http://republicandirtytricks.com/mitt-romney-unfit-for-command/

[-] 3 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

No doubt about that. And a whole lot we haven't even thought of yet.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

I'm working my way up to that one.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1931) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Good luck and encourage all to vote.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26178) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Can't believe you were voted down 4 that comment (twinkle).

[-] 3 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

What?

I stepped away for about an hour and hadn't noticed. That's weird. Kinda think I hit the nail on the head, however cynical it sounds. Gotta be personal. Doesn't matter, if I cared I'd post more. Or break out the two laptops upstairs and think up some cool non-gnomunny sounding usernames like Dontbreakit or JaquesDeRipa then up vote the hell out of myself. Bwa!!!!

Thanks for the up-votes guys. Gotta love this playground.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26178) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Ah - computer crisis resolved? Can you now access video links? Lot of awesome stuff you could catch up on.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Nah, the laptops are my sisters'. She just got a new one 'cause her old one wouldn't run games. Kept freezing up. So, I could borrow her old one pretty easy. I'm on my old desktop one right now. So, what's this about me being -4?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26178) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I don't know - when I gave you a twinkle on your comment it was only a 0 - I just couldn't understand the reasoning behind the down vote. Unless of course someone thought that you were picking on TPTB. And that would just be stupid.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Maybe someone that doesn't care for me happened to notice I'm back. I'll elaborate no further, heh heh heh.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26178) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I think it likely that your comment was under attack.

[-] 3 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Hmmm, interesting. Considering I've been absent for a while, is there suspicion we have some 'establishment' types here for less than noble reasons? Or maybe a rabid sports fan that resented my 'mindless entertainment' remark. Sports are great, but they can be a distraction sometimes. Hey, if you want to get away with something, do it on Superbowl Sunday. Nobody will notice. :-)

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26178) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

This site has been under attack by the establishment from day 1. That is not paranoia - just common sense as this is a site that protests what went wrong to crash the economy and the fact that those responsible have not been punished - but instead rewarded. This is a site that is reaching out to the public with education. Of course it is gonna be attacked - very thoroughly to prevent it gaining popularity and participants.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Yeah it has to varying degrees. It does make sense they would turn up the juice right about now.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26178) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Could be - the one on the night of the storm that lasted about 10 hours I figure was due to the storm.


[-] 1 points by gnomunny (3600) from St Louis, MO 3 minutes ago

The connection problems are undoubtedly due to the storm, I'm sure. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Oh, yeah. Definitely.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26178) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yep - my site connection has been acting funky all day and I lost connection to here for about an hour just recently.

As for the upcoming attacks(?) I don't know they seem to lack imagination.


[-] 1 points by gnomunny (3600) from St Louis, MO 3 minutes ago

I'm actually curious about what kind of establishment attacks will come after the election. They've already played the 'dirty hippie, get a job' card. Should be interesting.

Edit: My connection was down for a little while. Was anyone else's? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

The connection problems are undoubtedly due to the storm, I'm sure.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26178) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

You bet - just like all the e-mails that are being sent out non-stop right now begging for money. It is a major crunch time for things to happen. It will taper off again after Nov. 6th only to ramp up every time something new comes up.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

I'm actually curious about what kind of establishment attacks will come after the election. They've already played the 'dirty hippie, get a job' card. Should be interesting.

Edit: My connection was down for a little while. Was anyone else's?

[-] 3 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

That can't be true - just ask Obama - according to him manufacturing in this country is increasing -

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Worth an up-vote 'cause I love good sarcasm. :)

[-] 2 points by Shule (2040) 1 year ago

Free trade agreements is only a part of it. A lot ,unfortunately, also has a lot to do with our un-educational system making for a low skill work force (not to the fault of an individual.) Then there is the situation of extremely low interest rates here in the States caused by national debts which in turn are caused by wars which causes investment money to flow away from the U.S.A. to countries able to pay higher investment returns. Then there are the highly volatile politics where government credits and/or support cannot be assured for more than a few years causing risk and uncertainty in any investment. Then there is this factor where I believe a lot of factories are being shut down and moved even though they are be competitive solely for the purposes of breaking unions and environmental laws. Employee wages are actually only a small part of the cost of a product.

[-] 1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

lets not forget the 1 trillion in handouts that the government gives every year

[-] 0 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 1 year ago

That's a very confused set of statements. The fact is , the vast majority of manufacturing jobs do not require an extensive education. In addition, there are many highly over qualified, over educated people in this country, working in low paying service jobs. Then there's your statement about low interest rates. The fact is, vast amounts of foreign capital have flowed into US treasuries and the US dollar. Many other countries have a higher debt to GDP ratio than the US. When you say; "factories are being shut down and moved though they are competitive solely for the purpose of breaking unions and environmental laws" , that's a distinction without a difference. Union wages cost more. Environmental responsibility costs more. When labor costs less, a corporation is obviously more profitable. If your competitor pays far less for labor, you can't be competitive. It's simple arithmetic.

[-] 1 points by Shule (2040) 1 year ago

Many manufacturing jobs require a high degree of discipline, and also many times agility, and a capacity to learn. These are skills which unfortunately many Americans never had the opportunity to learn. Yes there are many people under employed and unemployed for their skill and education, but there are many more who are simply unqualified. As to cash flow of foreign capital, there is a tremendous amount of money coming into the U.S., but there is much more going out. Most monies buy up treasury bills which do not translate into investments for manufacturing. Competition also has to do with quality of a product, and not necessarily price. When one looks one sees often, what is more often bought is the best quality product irrespective of its higher price. The most competitive countries are often the ones with the highest labor rates; Japan, Germany, etc.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 1 year ago

I think you have been mislead. While there are undoubtedly instances where the educational system does not align well with job opportunities, but that is no real explanation. The article below points to a number of statistics, one of which is this; The US has lost 32% of its manufacturing jobs since 2000 (as of 2010). Somehow, those jobs where filled prior to that point, so there where qualified people here. http://www.businessinsider.com/deindustrialization-factory-closing-2010-9?op=1 http://economyincrisis.org/content/inequality-the-tales-economists-like-to-tell

[-] 1 points by Shule (2040) 1 year ago

Very true; a lot of very qualified people lost their jobs as described, but I'm not talking about that. Beyond that, there exists an entire underclass of folks here in the States that never had decent jobs to begin with.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1931) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

That's why we had tariffs until Raygun's Milton Friedman, supply side mob screwed everything up for the country (took us from a creditor to a debtor nation) but made a few boundlessly wealthy. Robbery, graft, fraud and economic terrorism are "simple arithmetic," too. Just ask Bernie Madoff. Today's money mad pirates are just the same greed-addled crooks as they always have been, just modern, and perhaps greedier. Who wants to be rich in a poor country? Predator Capitalists; Not Americans!

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

I don't trust people who talk about manufacturing a lot. Most never worked those jobs. People in college, democrats, republicans, Karl and Groucho Marx go on and on about it.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 1 year ago

Excellent article.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

either produce a product or stop consuming so much

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1931) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

How Ayn Rand!

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

you should see my dungeon architecture

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1931) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

programer jargon