Forum Post: Edited - Ukraine erupts in flames - as protest against the government intensifies
Posted 10 years ago on Feb. 18, 2014, 7:24 p.m. EST by DKAtoday
(33802)
from Coon Rapids, MN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
When will our various protests around the world go after not only corrupt governments - BUT ALSO the corrupters = BUSINESS/Corp(se)oRATions. The government is SUPPOSED to be the legal authority - BUT - it is actually the Corp(se)oRATions behind the thrones that are really in charge. SO - when do Corp(se)oRATion owners and executives get their day under the spotlight of public outrage? ( EDIT ) -> The Corp(se)oRATions being the ROOT/SOURCE of corruption of a failed (ing) Government/Society/Nation/World.
A New Cold War? Ukraine Violence Escalates, Leaked Tape Suggests US Was Plotting Coup
Friday, 21 February 2014 11:14 By Amy Goodman and Juan Gonzalez, Democracy Now! | Video Interview
A short-lived truce has broken down in Ukraine as street battles have erupted between anti-government protesters and police. Last night the country’s embattled president and the opposition leaders demanding his resignation called for a truce and negotiations to try to resolve Ukraine’s political crisis. But hours later, armed protesters attempted to retake Independence Square, sparking another day of deadly violence. At least 50 people have died since Tuesday in the bloodiest period of Ukraine’s 22-year post-Soviet history. While President Obama has vowed to "continue to engage all sides," a recently leaked audio recording between two top U.S. officials reveal the Obama administration has been secretly plotting with the opposition. We speak to Stephen Cohen, professor emeritus of Russian studies and politics at New York University and Princeton University. His most recent book, "Soviet Fates and Lost Alternatives: From Stalinism to the New Cold War," is out in paperback. His latest Nation article is "Distorting Russia: How the American Media Misrepresent Putin, Sochi and Ukraine."
TRANSCRIPT http://truth-out.org/news/item/22014-a-new-cold-war-ukraine-violence-escalates-leaked-tape-suggests-us-was-plotting-coup
Neocons and the Ukraine Coup
Tuesday, 25 February 2014 09:28 By Robert Parry, Consortium News | Op-Ed
http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/22090-neocons-and-the-ukraine-coup
American neocons helped destabilize Ukraine and engineer the overthrow of its elected government, a “regime change” on Russia’s western border. But the coup – and the neo-Nazi militias at the forefront – also reveal divisions within the Obama administration, reports Robert Parry.
More than five years into his presidency, Barack Obama has failed to take full control over his foreign policy, allowing a bureaucracy shaped by long years of Republican control and spurred on by a neocon-dominated U.S. news media to frustrate many of his efforts to redirect America’s approach to the world in a more peaceful direction.
But Obama deserves a big dose of the blame for this predicament because he did little to neutralize the government holdovers and indeed played into their hands with his initial appointments to head the State and Defense departments, Hillary Clinton, a neocon-leaning Democrat, and Robert Gates, a Republican cold warrior, respectively.
Even now, key U.S. diplomats are more attuned to hard-line positions than to promoting peace. The latest example is Ukraine where U.S. diplomats, including Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs Victoria Nuland and U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt, are celebrating the overthrow of an elected pro-Russian government.
Occurring during the Winter Olympics in Sochi, Russia, the coup in Ukraine dealt an embarrassing black eye to Russian President Vladimir Putin, who had offended neocon sensibilities by quietly cooperating with Obama to reduce tensions over Iran and Syria, where the neocons favored military options.
Over the past several weeks, Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych was undercut by a destabilization campaign encouraged by Nuland and Pyatt and then deposed in a coup spearheaded by neo-Nazi militias. Even after Yanukovych and the political opposition agreed to an orderly transition toward early elections, right-wing armed patrols shattered the agreement and took strategic positions around Kiev.
Despite these ominous signs, Ambassador Pyatt hailed the coup as “a day for the history books.” Most of the mainstream U.S. news media also sided with the coup, with commentators praising the overthrow of an elected government as “reform.” But a few dissonant reports have pierced the happy talk by noting that the armed militias are part of the Pravy Sektor, a right-wing nationalist group which is often compared to the Nazis.
Thus, the Ukrainian coup could become the latest neocon-initiated “regime change” that ousted a target government but failed to take into account who would fill the void.
Some of these same American neocons pushed for the invasion of Iraq in 2003, not realizing that removing Saddam Hussein would touch off a sectarian conflict and lead to a pro-Iranian Shiite regime. Similarly, U.S. military intervention in Libya in 2011 eliminated Muammar Gaddafi but also empowered Islamic extremists who later murdered the U.S. ambassador and spread unrest beyond Libya’s borders to nearby Mali.
One might trace this neocons’ blindness to consequences back to Afghanistan in the 1980s when the Reagan administration supported Islamic militants, including Osama bin Laden, in a war against Soviet troops, only to have Muslim extremists take control of Afghanistan and provide a base for al-Qaeda to plot the 9/11 attacks against the United States.
Regarding Ukraine, today’s State Department bureaucracy seems to be continuing the same anti-Moscow geopolitical strategy set during those Reagan-Bush years.
Robert Gates described the approach in his new memoir, Duty, explaining the view of President George H.W. Bush’s Defense Secretary Dick Cheney: “When the Soviet Union was collapsing in late 1991, Dick wanted to see the dismantlement not only of the Soviet Union and the Russian empire but of Russia itself, so it could never again be a threat to the rest of the world.”
Vice President Cheney and the neocons pursued a similar strategy during George W. Bush’s presidency, expanding NATO aggressively to the east and backing anti-Russian regimes in the region including the hard-line Georgian government, which provoked a military confrontation with Moscow in 2008, ironically, during the Summer Olympics in China.
Obama's Strategy
As President, Obama has sought a more cooperative relationship with Russia’s Putin and, generally, a less belligerent approach toward adversarial countries. Obama has been supported by an inner circle at the White House with analytical assistance from some elements of the U.S. intelligence community.
But the neocon momentum at the State Department and from other parts of the U.S. government has continued in the direction set by George W. Bush’s neocon administration and by neocon-lite Democrats who surrounded Secretary of State Clinton during Obama’s first term.
The two competing currents of geopolitical thinking – a less combative one from the White House and a more aggressive one from the foreign policy bureaucracy – have often worked at cross-purposes. But Obama, with only a few exceptions, has been unwilling to confront the hardliners or even fully articulate his foreign policy vision publicly.
For instance, Obama succumbed to the insistence of Gates, Clinton and Gen. David Petraeus to escalate the war in Afghanistan in 2009, though the President reportedly felt trapped into the decision which he soon regretted. In 2010, Obama backed away from a Brazilian-Turkish-brokered deal with Iran to curtail its nuclear program after Clinton denounced the arrangement and pushed for economic sanctions and confrontation as favored by the neocons and Israel.
Just last summer, Obama – only at the last second – reversed a course charted by the State Department favoring a military intervention in Syria over disputed U.S. claims that the Syrian government had launched a chemical weapons attack on civilians. Putin helped arrange a way out for Obama by getting the Syrian government to agree to surrender its chemical weapons. [See Consortiumnews.com’s “A Showdown for War or Peace.”]
Stirring Up Trouble
Now, you have Assistant Secretary of State Nuland, the wife of prominent neocon Robert Kagan, acting as a leading instigator in the Ukrainian unrest, explicitly seeking to pry the country out of the Russian orbit. Last December, she reminded Ukrainian business leaders that, to help Ukraine achieve “its European aspirations, we have invested more than $5 billion.” She said the U.S. goal was to take “Ukraine into the future that it deserves.”
The Kagan family includes other important neocons, such as Frederick Kagan, who was a principal architect of the Iraq and Afghan “surge” strategies. In Duty, Gates writes that “an important way station in my ‘pilgrim’s progress’ from skepticism to support of more troops [in Afghanistan] was an essay by the historian Fred Kagan, who sent me a prepublication draft.
“I knew and respected Kagan. He had been a prominent proponent of the surge in Iraq, and we had talked from time to time about both wars, including one long evening conversation on the veranda of one of Saddam’s palaces in Baghdad.”
Now, another member of the Kagan family, albeit an in-law, has been orchestrating the escalation of tensions in Ukraine with an eye toward one more “regime change.”
As for Nuland’s sidekick, U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Pyatt previously served as a U.S. diplomat in Vienna involved in bringing the International Atomic Energy Agency into a line with U.S. and Israeli hostility toward Iran. A July 9, 2009, cable from Pyatt, which was released by Pvt. Bradley Manning, revealed Pyatt to be the middleman who coordinated strategy with the U.S.-installed IAEA director-general Yukiya Amano.
Pyatt reported that Amano offered to cooperate with the U.S. and Israel on Iran, including having private meetings with Israeli officials, supporting U.S. sanctions, and agreeing to IAEA personnel changes favored by the United States. According to the cable, Pyatt promised strong U.S. backing for Amano and Amano asked for more U.S. money. [See Consortiumnews.com’s “America’s Debt to Bradley Manning.”]
It was Ambassador Pyatt who was on the other end of Nuland’s infamous Jan. 28 phone call in which she discussed how to manipulate Ukraine’s tensions and who to elevate into the country’s leadership. According to the conversation, which was intercepted and made public, Nuland ruled out one opposition figure, Vitali Klitschko, a popular former boxer, because he lacked experience.
Nuland also favored the UN as mediator over the European Union, at which point in the conversation she exclaimed, “Fuck the E.U.” to which Pyatt responded, “Oh, exactly …”
Ultimately, the Ukrainian unrest – over a policy debate whether Ukraine should move toward entering the European Union – led to a violent showdown in which neo-fascist storm troopers battled police, leaving scores dead. To ease the crisis, President Yanukovych agreed to a power-sharing government and to accelerated elections. But no sooner was that agreement signed then the hard-right faction threw it out and pressed for power in an apparent coup.
Again, the American neocons had performed the role of the Sorcerer’s Apprentice, unleashing forces and creating chaos that soon was spinning out of control. But this latest “regime change,” which humiliated President Putin, could also do long-term damage to U.S.-Russian cooperation vital to resolving other crises, with Iran and Syria, two more countries where the neocons are also eager for confrontation.
This piece was reprinted by Truthout with permission or license.
US Adopts Israeli Demand to Bring Iran's Missiles into Nuclear Talks
Tuesday, 25 February 2014 09:42 By Gareth Porter, IPS News | Report
WASHINGTON - The Barack Obama administration’s insistence that Iran discuss its ballistic missile programme in the negotiations for a comprehensive nuclear agreement brings its position into line with that of Israel and senators who introduced legislation drafted by the pro-Israel lobby group AIPAC aimed at torpedoing the negotiations.
http://truth-out.org/news/item/22092-us-adopts-israeli-demand-to-bring-irans-missiles-into-nuclear-talks
US Ballistic Missiles are top of the line
they can deliver a nuclear payload across a continent
A New Neocon Push for Syrian War
Tuesday, 25 February 2014 09:47 By Coleen Rowley, Consortium News | Op-Ed
The neocon agenda of “regime change” in disfavored countries continues unabated with new pressure for a U.S. military intervention in Syria, billed as “humanitarian” and coupled with ridicule for anyone who favors the frustrating course of diplomacy, as ex-FBI agent Coleen Rowley explains.
The propaganda that continues to flourish for war on Syria shows many Americans fail to understand the problems posed by “U.S. Empire-building” believing it to be an altruistic force, toppling other governments and starting wars for the good of all mankind.
http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/22093-a-new-neocon-push-for-syrian-war
Venezuela's Deep Political Education Means Venezuelans Will Withstand Right-Wing Protests
Friday, 28 February 2014 10:08 By Kevin Zeese and Margaret Flowers , Truthout | News Analysis
http://truth-out.org/news/item/22121-venezuelas-deep-political-education-means-venezuelans-will-withstand-right-wing-protests
Ukraine: "Go West, Young Man" (or Dr. Strangelove's Revenge)
Friday, 28 February 2014 11:12 By Michael Hudson and Jeffrey Sommers, Truthout | Op-Ed
http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/22131-ukraine-go-west-young-man-or-dr-strangeloves-revenge
No - this is a shooting war. And the USA has no right to point fingers at anyone else - as The USA's House is in need of much repair - much of the same repair as the worst countries/governments in the world.
The situation in Ukraine with 18 people dead, hundreds wounded doesn't look good to say the least.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/18/ukraine-protesters-clash-police-reform
People fighting corruption - it can be very ugly/bloody - And - It Is a world wide necessity = Fighting Corruption/GREED.
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Minimum wage can be increased - to get it off the ground however takes peoples awareness and involvement/support.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/can-garment-factories-pay-living-wage-compete-in-global-economy/
if there is so much abundance that we compete to fill the needs of the people
then filling the needs of the people is not what competition achieves
"..And topple Putin"
Russians revolt.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/21/thousands-of-russians-march-to-end-the-war-in-ukraine-and-topple-putin.html
And the people speak. Lets hope it is contagious.
Volume tanking in carbon commodities-YEAH!
Love it - absolutely - Love it
Today Wall Street is boggled-now they know how WE feel-blocked in on all sides.Tomorrow-Business as usual.The Bastards.Not for very much longer-they are heading straight for another Big Tank soon.Hope they all cry their damn eyes out and are inadequately hedged as well.Hubris! It's a Bitch!
The break-up of the too big to fail - has got to happen - one way or another - and so it really is Karmic - as they continue with their criminal practices and do it to themselves.
Most people are too squeamish to place their genitalia in a Meat Grinder and turn the crank themselves-gotta hand it to those guys-no short term memory at all.Under 1 second now.
Doing too many drugs to feed their need for speed - they are so toxic now - they probably wouldn't notice as they walked into a running wood chipper - which - in a sense - is exactly what they are doing.
The Frontline documentary about the crash suggested the widespread use of SSRI's might have something to do with their suicidal recklessness.Seems about right.
Better living through mood altering drugs - another failed ( sorry got ahead of myself = failing ) concept.
They tell pregnant women to keep on taking SSRI's through term.What could go wrong? Big Pharma=Giant Perverts
A market creating markets - even if the market created is for coffins.
Putin wants to unplug web
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/19/vladimir-putin-plan-unplug-russia-internet-emergency-kremlin-moscow
Expected that I guess
It happens when TPTB fear the open communication of their population with other populations. What is currently different here - is that - here - instead of just pulling the plug - we still have the theater of government debating security concerns requiring taking necessary control of the internet.
no doubt, We have "bread & circuses" down to a science, Russians are more practiced at govt protests in recent decades.
Putin is a desperate dictator who continues to lurch into the wrong decisions.
Hope for the Russian people
Hope for the world - as well - as that idiot ( sorry - I meant - Insane Asshole ) has been playing at the necessity of nuclear imperative game.
Putins threatens w/ Nukes
http://www.christianpost.com/news/russia-has-nuclear-weapons-putin-warns-the-west-obama-readies-for-nato-summit-estonia-visit-125627/
While we announce nuke weapons upgrades.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/22/us/us-ramping-up-major-renewal-in-nuclear-arms.html
Gotta reset Armageddon clock
http://news.discovery.com/human/life/time-for-doomsday-clock-to-stop-ticking-130116.htm
hmmmm downvoted from being a 4 - and - surprise - no comment as to why the comment was disliked - would be handy to be able to use jarts suggestion of a hovering vote reveal application to see who it was and then be able to ask em why. https://occupywallst.org/forum/idea-list-names-of-twinklers-and-stinklers/
Cartoon: Obama calls Putin
Ukraine erupts in flames - continuing escalation of this protest has now involved Russia sending troops into Crimea to reclaim it as part of mainland Russia. USA and Europe threaten sanctions - Russia threatens back with " we can shut off natural gas supply to Ukraine and to Europe."
HUH - just F'n GR8 - another excuse for the USA fossil fuel industry to step up natural gas exports and expand fracking in the USA.
INSANITY
This should be ( but will not be ) addressed as an opportune moment to implement more clean energy alternatives - to break fossil fuel shackles.
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This relates - as it is all too common in views and actions around the world.
Peggy Noonan writes the most ironic, un-self-aware column in the history of Western civilization
Peggy Noonan referenced the four personal-service job centers that gave: nose jobs in Hollywood, hand jobs in New York, snow jobs in the South, and blow jobs in the White House.
Russians protest putin
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/21/thousands-of-russians-march-to-end-the-war-in-ukraine-and-topple-putin.html
As I have said before, Russia's thuggish behaviors in Ukraine may just be the result of the wrong man being in charge. Putin is a thug and a stupid one at that.
People can see and hear. If their mouths are not stuffed up by intimidations, they speak freely, Russians or no Russians (e.g., Hong Kong people in China). Ending the war in Ukraine benefits Russia - I just don't get how Russian influence on Ukraine can possibly increase with what it was doing there. Attracting economic sanctions for getting some territorial gains will cripple Russia in the long run - extreme foolishness. Wasn't Crimea de facto Russian even before the brouhaha?
Yep, it was.
Putin has watched for 25 years his empire gobbled up country by country, Ukraine signing with EU was too much for him.
He has lashed out and like all spoiled brats he is reaping what he's sowed.
And the people of Ukraine have suffer as a result.
Of course, because.........the WallStreet Journal.
It couldn't possibly have anything to do with Rupert Murdock.
It's good that the rant gets into that paper. It is a first step in the quantum refrigeration for the U.S.
not really.
It's just another libe(R)tarian bullshit session.
distraction at its finest.
WallStreet fuckin' journal.
POS!@the public.
Video from today. February 20, 2014 1:40 PM EST — The Post's Will Englund gives a first-person account of what it's like on the ground for protesters in Kiev. The Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/world/behind-the-barricades-in-ukraine/2014/02/20/28d35a88-9a60-11e3-9900-dd917233cf9c_video.html
Thanks for the addition to this post = http://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/world/behind-the-barricades-in-ukraine/2014/02/20/28d35a88-9a60-11e3-9900-dd917233cf9c_video.html
The population of the Ukraine has been suffering far longer than the vast majority of the population here in the USA. But the USA is heading in the same direction as is the situation currently in the Ukraine. The Causes are the same = corruption initiated and fed by the few to the detriment of the majority/society.
How does the privatized ( corp(se)oRAT funded/bought ) education system attack/defeat healthy growth and change in/of Society - in this country and around the world?
Have a look at the attached PBS News Hour segment.
Check out the Educator (?) Economist as he puts down the idea of raising the minimum wage to be a living wage while supporting the failed ( for the vast public ) trickle down economics "give the wealthy and corp(se)oRATions even more breaks" policies.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/debating-costs-benefits-of-boosting-minimum-wage/
Minimum wage workers are not of poor families??? WHAT??? REALLY??? Who are you trying to kid???
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EDIT - EXACTLY - no-one should make 400% more than their lowest paid employee - ( EDIT ) -> let alone 400 times more than their whole workforce combined. Lets try 20% and shift ( divide-up ) that 380% ( NO the 380 times more than the total workforce ) to the actual workers.
A healthy Society needs to Honor/Protect/Support it's Whistle Blowers.
Edward Snowden has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.
Two Norwegian MPs have put forward the whistleblower's name for one of the world's highest honors for "[contributing] to a more stable and peaceful world order" and speaking out against abuses of power.
If President Obama, a man responsible for mass drone killings, can win the Peace Prize, then there's nothing barring the man who helped expose his unconstitutional overreach and threat to international transparency.
Please, join us in calling on the Norwegian Nobel Committee to listen to these MPs and put Snowden on the shortlist in March, helping him secure asylum in sympathetic nations and showing Obama he deserves to be pardoned.
PETITION TO NORWEGIAN NOBEL COMMITTEE: Put US whistleblower Edward Snowden on your shortlist for the 2014 Nobel Peace Prize.
Click here to sign -- it just takes a second.
Thanks, -- The folks at Watchdog.net
P.S. If the other links aren't working for you, please go here to sign: http://act.watchdog.net/petitions/4244?n=57773050.c5_EFK
I also replied back to Watchdog.net - that Bradley Manning and Julian Assange should be added - and that they should put a comment section on their petition for those who sign to add their thoughts.
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DKAtoday @DKAtoday
Ukraine erupts in flames - as protest against the government intensifies http://occupywallst.org/forum/ukraine-erupts-in-flames-as-protest-against-the-go/#.UwUkWPRM1jI.twitter …
Pls read/consider as this relates 2 ALL!
Why do I place comments on how to better the economy on a post about increasing violence on the population in the protest of government by the population of Ukraine?
Because - It Is Not Enough To Protest - The Protest MUST INCLUDE HOW THINGS CAN AND SHOULD BE DONE BETTER. If Not - all the society realizes if successful - IS - a change of players in office - NOT a change/improvement of any practices.
Complimenting the Ukraine protests: ( all protests against corrupted governments )
DKAtoday @DKAtoday
Give direction 2 government or receive 1/2 measures from them - at best. Protest is not enough - give real direction https://occupywallst.org/forum/just-say-no-jobs-keystonexl-nokxl-climatejustice-k/#comment-1024820 …
Here's a first.
http://www.alternet.org/world/incredible-photo-ukrainian-riot-police-kneel-and-apologize-their-brutality-imagine
incredible indeed.
It's a start.
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DKAtoday @DKAtoday
Ukrainian Riot Police Kneel & Apologize 4 Their Brutality Imagine That! | Alternet http://www.alternet.org/world/incredible-photo-ukrainian-riot-police-kneel-and-apologize-their-brutality-imagine …
Now - Support Your People!!!
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DKAtoday @DKAtoday
Food 4 Thought - How does the Public make healthy change happen? There is a desperate need. https://occupywallst.org/forum/ukraine-erupts-in-flames-as-protest-against-the-go/#comment-1024196 … Protest is only 1 start.
EDIT -> Bottom line - If The Public does not request ( DEMAND ) it - it will not happen.
An example of how one might ( MIGHT ) start to address an economic issue that is also tied to increasing employment as well as tied to reducing pollution as well as bettering the lives of low income people.
A letter I sent off to a large transmission company/business:
Some time ago I sent in a e-mail request for information to you. I never got a reply.
My query was:
I have a 2003 Chevrolet Malibu with the 3.1 liter engine and the stock 4 speed automatic transmission with overdrive. Could You Install the New 2014 6 speed automatic transmission to this car?
Why one might ask? Better overall performance - gas mileage.
The car is in excellent condition - so why not be able to upgrade it's transmission or even it's engine?
Upgrading has got to be a whole lot less expensive than buying a whole new car.
I myself am not in a position to "ever" buy a new car. How many millions of people can say the same. We will only ever be able to afford buying a used car.
How many millions of people if presented with the ability/opportunity - how many would upgrade their car for better performance - gas mileage - while also extending the life of their car?
I believe many would - think of the business prospects for a business that advertised this capability for low income car owners.
A forward thinking business might even consider promoting a program with local Credit Unions to extend low interest purpose tied loans to their customers for such an upgrade program.
There will always be millions of people who will only ever be able to afford a used car - so always the cutting edge technology on the road will be the minority of vehicles on the road. Unless that technology could be upgraded into the older cars on the road.
Thimk about it - Hey?
We need to get away from being such a disposable economy anyway.
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DKAtoday @DKAtoday
@ThePublic @AutoIndustry Change for the better begins with You the Public demand/support healthy change. 1 example https://occupywallst.org/forum/ukraine-erupts-in-flames-as-protest-against-the-go/#comment-1024165 …
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017176564
From early February.
Powerful
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DKAtoday @DKAtoday
I am Ukrainian.... make this video go viral! - Democratic Underground http://demu.gr/1017176564
An all 2 familiar situation world wide.
I Am a Ukrainian
pretty vague
are the people homeless? are they starving? are they forced to work? is behavior controlled by a minority ? does the bank tell them they'll still owe money when they die ?
freedom freedom monster freedom
It seems to be due to a broken promise by Ukraine's regime to hold an election in the aftermath of deadly clash before. If so, we must hold the regime accountable.
perhaps a populous vote can be verified on the internet ?
I do not trust internet voting results because techie sociopaths can and do corrupt them to serve their own interests.
EDIT - Hence the mad chaos of internet banking - on line transactions?
Paradox ?
Design!
I do not know what chaos you are referring to but charging customers bank fees is certainly an extremely automated robotic activity. Bank fees can come in duplication, triplication, and so on. It takes machines to foul things up greatly but of course that IS actually the intention. Ukraine should approach the banks for loans like a one-armed person approaching the banks to borrow a chainsaw.
So you have difficulty with short cryptic crap too - Hey?
Funny that the financial system can operate so cleanly - but we dast not have internet voting. Paradox? or Design?
You are under the spell of finance invincibility. There is a great difference between keeping the mouths shut to save face than having true invincibility. Suffering in silence is easily confused with invincibility.
Ummmm? NOT = economic meltdown. But when was the last time a bank was hacked and cleaned out electronically?
They don't suffer in silence - HELL NO - they take no responsibility for their actions and Holler to the Heavens for PUBLIC MONEY/BAILOUT
A bank which had been "cleaned out" electronically can be restored electronically through mirror storage and counterparty data. The fixes are just flipping bits subject to the scrutiny of the regulatory agencies including the (non-)Federal (no-)Reserve.
Hey, the peoples wanted no more bailouts so megabanks have living wills and bailins. Bailins will certainly solve all insolvency problems of any financial entity. Liability is less than or equal to total owed to depositors and creditors. If that does not need to done, the insolvency has been solved.
internet voting can be done in public
if it is
everyone who has access to the internet can count and verify the results
what I don't trust is "secret ballots" talk about possibility of abuse
If enough importance is attached to internet voting, high reliability can certainly be achieved. Techies know how to do that given enough money but we can be sure that there will be management types who know little to decide to "save" the "unnecessary expenditure. "
if every vote with the name
voting can be publicly verified
all the internet would have to do is record the votes and names
across several unassociated servers
"pretty vague"
I thought you liked that sort of thing?
If freedom is your monster?
What's servitude?
what are they protesting in Ukraine?
being killed?
They want to join the EU.
Russia doesn't like that idea.
There are likely, covert operations of one sort or another, from every corner of the World that's capable of such things, involved.
It's a beautiful region, in a strategic location, with valuable resources and an educated populace, and nukes.
So you should expect that.
The people themselves want to join the EU, thus the video and it's plea.
Stupid educated people, always causing trouble for everybody, and now even you Matt.
Who are these "Stupid educated people, always causing trouble for everybody"?
Mostly liberal sorts and women.
In the case of the Ukraine, women in particular.
EI: Femen. They've arrived here in the US.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/23/femen-s-topless-sextremists-invade-the-us.html
I wonder what Texas is going to say?
Much of what they support makes sense although their means of getting the message out is unconventional. I do not have any problem with their exposing their breasts - it is free speech right covered by our First Amendment (It may be abridged by local obscenity laws).
Besides, the Goddess of Liberty bares Her breasts in battles and human beings are mammals, classified by milk production. What can be more respectable and natural than breasts which secrete milk made from human blood?
Texas getting Femen will be interesting to watch. Femen, unconventional - yes, stupid - no.
Of course boobs aren't really their message.
Did you get beyond the boobs to discover what that message was?
Yes, and we can use that message more worldwide. Aggressive and powerful, freedom and bravery, all remind me of the Goddess of Liberty leading into a battle.
What did you say their message was?
Are you offended by or afraid of female nudity?
I was in a subway car and as a baby whined, the mother matter-of-factly put it to suckle her breast under a towel. The woman sitting diagonally across from the pair immediately put on an expression of disgust. Are you as repressed as that woman?
It is remarkable how women can be women's worst enemies. Some attack the female victims of their powerful philandering husbands' sexual exploits rather than their own husbands. This is very much like patriarchy.
Down with patriachies, down with religions and religious fanatics, cut out exploitation of women by porn industry, etc. The message is feminism and women's rights. We have lived millennia under patriarchies so feminism can bring balance and exploration of new forms of social structures.
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I know I'm not stupid
They have confused you.
Here is a minor but meaningful correction: Ukraine denuclearized itself by Russia's removing all nuclear weapons from Ukraine.
Ukraine and Russia were "tight." Ukraine trusted Russia, even with nuclear weapons.
My condolences go out to all in Ukraine who have been killed or injured and their families and relatives.
so why can't Russia have have relations with the EU ?
I don't know - ask Russia and the EU. It may be bad karma left over from the Cold War. With EU expanding to include many countries formerly under Soviet Union's and later Russia's influence, Russia feels threatened, especially with the potential loss of its beloved Ukraine to the EU.
Another possibility is the EU-imposed requirements for joining it. Or perhaps Russia's wounded pride. Or perhaps the West having broken promises not to "gobble" up countries formerly under Soviet/Russian influence.
Maybe goldman sachs wants to give ukraine credit
and determine who gets paid to do what
The national banks or holding companies of banks such as GS has megatons of near-money created by our Federal Reserve and the national banks themselves to lend. It should help out Ukraine. I do NOT want to watch Greece-2 horror show though.
I don't think what happened in Greece can be justified by debt
it's always a debt crisis - not a food shortage not a housing crisis
we are in crisis because we owe money
Debts grow far faster than real things. That is why the financial entities are piling into anything real. There will be massive repudiation of debts eventually. May we all live in interesting times.
Point taken, but the rest is still very accurate.
They also have the worlds third largest cache of small arms.
Today, there is a tenuous cease fire.
The prospect for a peaceful transition of power is looking up: Ukraine opposition leader Tymoshenko to go free.
Without a peaceful transition, Ukraine may lapse into civil war and with its large cache of small arms, that whole region can become very bloody quickly and for a long time. Ukrainians have good sense of where their country's interest lies -- let us hope the casualties there have not been incurred in vain.
Where are the stats on Ukranian arms coming from?
I've been to Kiev, and I hope that whatever happens, they make sure those beautiful statues and churches don't get crushed.
Although I will say that this one statue was one of the most terrifying things I have ever seen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Motherland,_Kiev
http://books.google.com/books?id=uvGRBE1QxBUC&pg=PP75&lpg=PP75&dq=ukraine+small+arms&source=bl&ots=oE_DyQPyXL&sig=Bzk6aAKo6HA3I603W4ed-og-wgY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vmYKU-6AD8uysQT8i4DoDA&ved=0CDYQ6AEwBTgK
Let shooz answer. I believe that statistics has at least a grain of truth to it because the casualties indicated that the opposition had significant firepower relative to the authorities.
Yes, but that clipped sword in deference to the monastery can be a good sign for Ukraine in spite of its Soviet emblem shield. Far too often, people destroy artifacts and monuments immediately after an upheaval but only to regret it later for not having the history preserved. The physical objects can be imbued with new meanings (if Ukraine should desire to commemorate its complete break from the former Soviet Union, puncturing a hole to knock out the crossing of the sickle [Ukraine] with the hammer [Russia] on the Soviet emblem shield will show that meaning well), much as the many memorial prizes, scholarships, foundations, organ donations, etc. can channel strong emotions towards socially valuable ends.
Some say it's another proxy war between Russian/China and the US, like with Syria.
Did you see the video of the guy with the backhoe plowing through the police barricade? Ukrainians are tough people, thats for sure.
I was absolutely amazed at how spunky the Ukrainians were in their struggles. Kyiv will have a shortage of tires (it's bitterly cold there).
better yet.
Let's hope no one has attempted to dismantle their public education system by teaching them creationism.
Don't be melodramatic - teaching creationism in the social studies classes should be encouraged in the public schools. It takes intimate knowledge of the pitfalls to gain immunity to it, a little bit like vaccination injecting weakened pathogens.
We continue to teach our kids about Santa Claus, in spite of the lie involved. It serves a social purpose - so can the teaching of creationism together with other creation myths.
Melodramatic, is pretending that the circumstances under which it's taught, is what you've just suggested.
Creationism can be handled just like how Santa Claus is handled. The impassioned bigoted adherence to religions is the problem, not religions themselves. We enjoy fictions in Literatures even though they are fake but they can teach us much about human interactions.
You know as well as I do.
That's NOT how it's being done.
Trying to claim it's so, is bullshit.
Would you like the latest quote from DeLay?
I never said that the South did not try to foist creationism on our children through public schools. Especially Texas with its de facto control of the textbook contents.
Why wouldn't you?
It's a blatant attack on having an educated public.
Care to mention what particular group is doing that and through what means?
What are they teaching about global warming?
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Catherine invaded it too!
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/when-catherine-great-invaded-crimea-and-put-rest-world-edge-180949969/
It's a Russian tradition.
I don't think it was just a Russian tradition - btw check out those pervs in the picture looking up her skirts.
Perhaps they're looking at Turkey?
Thing is - TPTB in every corner of the world throughout history have been looking to subjugate everyone else.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/14/us-russia-kremlin-cybercrime-idUSBREA2D0FY20140314
Plus of course TPTB is better served with actual names.
Names like Koch.
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/harry-reid-anti-koch-brothers-104623.html
Yep "they" are not nameless/faceless and neither are "their" lackeys like Chris Christie - an unfortunate choice to wield power in government.
The Koch's and their paid for "allies", Show up almost every day, doing something nefarious.
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/22477-oil-industry-conjures-illusion-of-public-support-for-kxl-using-alec-politicians
No one notices, until it's to late.
Message I sent to Avaaz:
Subject - Protest the fossil fuel industries standing in the way of the sales of clean transportation = TESLA
Three USA States = Arizona, Texas and New Jersey have shutdown the sale of Tesla ( all electric ) cars in their states. This flies in the face of healthy growth of clean industries. These actions are against the Public's and the Environments and the Worlds best interests. We have viable alternatives to fossil fuel - for production of electricity and for transportation - alternatives that could very well take us down the road towards a pollution free environment. These actions against the environment must be pointed out to the public as well as the healthy alternatives we have available ( RIGHT NOW ) to implement - World Wide.
That is why the continuing and growing protests against KXL are so awesome - they have gone world wide and are becoming known to more and more of the population of the USA as well as to the population of the World. Arizona Texas and New Jersey now come straight into the public eye as being manipulated to deny the public/environment healthy change/growth in their denial of the sale of Tesla.
They'll just get it there through older leakier pipelines, ( they already are, to some extent.) Then when they leak like hell, they'll say .....told ya so.
Can we has the XL now?
They are also doing their best to mess with commuter rail traffic with their oil sands trains so that people will support a pipeline to get em off the rails - they also are delaying oat shipments so that cheerios customers get worried about running out and support a pipeline to save their precious o's.
The one to Montreal, has been approved, as I already showed you.
The States the XL goes through, have asked for it's completion.
It is and always has been framed as a States rights issue.
do I really need to say more?
Not really no - if it weren't for an international border - it would no doubt have been pumping tar sands for a long time by now. Southern end having already been completed.
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Even "corporations" are just the shinny trinkits they use to distract while the real stuff is done offstage. Corporations allow the peasent to think someday he too coulld have vast wealth when the truth is these things are deciced at brith, almost always, Monarcy has returned almost all over the world only a few small nations are holdouts and thier people will become the Kings Americans once were no doubt.
Another source.
http://www.vice.com/read/hotels-in-kiev-are-being-turned-into-morgues
On the ground, another video.
http://www.vice.com/vice-news/ukraine-burning
EDIT - And ALL of this - not just in the Ukraine - but - all around the world as well. Due to the corruption and greed of those in government carrying out the wishes of the wealthy few in the denial of a healthy and prosperous life for ALL - the true insanity of these actions against the public - IS - THAT EVERYONE WOULD BENEFIT - ( EDIT ) benefit from a minimum living wage ( for 1 example ) - yep - even the few greedy/wealthy.
Or as I like to call them.
Libe(R)topians.
Those, who among other things, rationalize pleonexia.
The greeeeeed disease.
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And so we see the world wide phenomena (?) of Public protest of their corrupt governments - and the common protest is against corruption - the corruption of government by the wealthy few at the expense of the general population.
what makes the government corrupt ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan
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It says they want closer integration with Europe
ya don't see US citizens wanting closer integration with Mexico
The nuclear saber-rattling from Russia was what drove me back from my hiatus. Russia seems to take this matter of Ukraine linking up with EU extremely personally.
Although Russia feels greatly offended, Ukraine is a sovereign state. As Russia knows from its inception out of the former Soviet Union, the will of the people must carry weight.
Hence it's current game of play-acting at democracy. But more and more the USA is only play-acting at democracy as are other democratic states.
But it all ( no matter the stated system/belief/ideals ) comes down to the few wanting it all - all of the power and all of the resources all of the money. And to Hell with everyone else - as "THEY" have got theirs - no matter that in "their" getting that "they" are destroying the society "they" live in and the rest of the world as "they" go about on "their" self-serving programs.
The cellular phone contracts are an example of this avarice. The phone companies charge people at low rates for a very long time so they will pay the entire cost of the cell phones. Once the people change to a different cell phone company. The old cell phone cannot be used anymore so the financial enslavement of the users continue.
Most people end up with a whole drawer full of old cell phones and chargers.
To make them, more coltan needs to be extracted from mines in Africa fueling the wars there. To dump them, they release toxic leachate to the environment.
The phone companies and arms makers and dealers gain at the expense of the long-enslaved users, exploited workers, coltan miners, child soldiers, war victims, poor people living close to waste dump sites, and eventually everyone's environment. Corporations are EVIL!
i do need a job
how are the corporations involved here ?
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