Forum Post: To Prevent Being Co-opted We Need at Least One Clear Demand or Set of Demands
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 17, 2011, 3:12 p.m. EST by Trilaksana
(27)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Other people have already suggested these demands and I think they are something we can all agree on.
- Corporations, organizations, unions, etc. are not people.
- Money is not free speech.
I hope we can all agree on these two points and begin to demand these two things be legislated. We can always add more to the list but we must reach a decent consensus. We have to represent everyone's interests.
I'm adding one more point. Many people who might support us are unsure whether they should or not. They are confused about what we are trying to achieve. We need to make this more clear and I think we can get even more support. We can remain non-partisan and still do this. I think we all want money out of politics.
Can we get a list, boil down the ideas to a sentence or two and let people vote on them?
I Agree:
I Agree:
I Agree:
Destruction of the two party stranglehold on our government should be the PRE-EMINENT FOCUS of Occupy Wall St.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Occupy Wall Street should be dedicated to destroying BOTH the Republican and Democratic parties' subversion and usurpation of our government. It is clear, from decades of corruption, that those who wish to subvert this country can easily do so by corrupting and controlling the two political parties. You can't conquer the United States, but you CAN corrupt the two parties. That is the secret of the subversion and its core. The parties then act as gatekeepers to keep all but the corrupt and crooked out of politics. That is how this country was screwed over.
Once these two parties' hidden monopoly is exposed, punished and destroyed, Americans should never again let so few parties control the Congress. The more parties or individuals in Congress, the better. It may be messy and confusing, but no one can buy every single politician the way they can two political parties.
There are many misguided efforts, and it seems that the OWS movement has become a platform for just about any concern. A movement needs to focus and be very clear on what it seeks to accomplish.
I have spent nearly 4 years researching and educating myself on the law and rules that make up the basis on how business is financed and how the rules affect business and the individuals who own them and work for them.
First let me say that this problem is not liberal or conservative, democrat or republican but it is a common problem we all share. One key point must be stressed we are all affected by the issue at hand.
Now, let’s look at the laws. If you look at the fall of the exchange in 1929, its cause and the reaction by the government you will find most of the problem. In 1929 only ~10% of all businesses were public and the remainder was private. ~2% of the population were involved in trading stocks and most of the individuals we very heavily leveraged (They bought on credit).
Next the market dropped, individuals lost their ability to pay off their margin accounts and wiped out the capital overnight in the banking system, Couple that with the hysteria of the people running on the banks to get there gold out and you have a recipe for disaster.
For most they were not initially affected by the falls of the exchange in 1929 but when banks failed they felt it. Businesses lost credit to operate, accounts were wiped out and small private business failed. No fault of their own but the fault of the overzealous banks. Individuals found there savings wiped out alongside the private businesses and the world plunged into the abyss.
The reaction to this was FDR. and the 1933 securities act and the 1934 securities and exchange act. What these two pieces of legislation did was strip the ability of the small private business (who did not cause the market collapse) to raise capital in a traditional form, Bonds. Direct investment was for many years the mainstay of the entrepreneur. It put the restrictions on who could invest (Qualified institutional investor) and how the investments could be sold. It stripped the ability of the individual to invest and make the high returns they became accustomed to and placed all of it into the hands of the very few 1%.
Today if you are a business owner there is a glass ceiling of about $3 million dollars where a business could potentially get debt to expand, retool, or modernize. The Wall Street and Banks prefer an Equity offering. How often do small business owners sell the majority share of the company they own under a public offering or private sale (sale to high net worth’s) to raise the capital they need. The horror stories of this arrangement are very clear. They give up control, get voted out of the company and the new share holders shut them down move the product manufacture to China to maximize the return to the High Net Worth investor (new owner).
The laws perpetuate the problem. Now remove the Glass-Steagall Act and it becomes a high net worth orgy.
Focus, access the laws, and fix the system that perpetuates the behavior.
FIX THE LAWS
Decent, but reworking the bit on Glass-Steagall would help. As it reads at this moment, it's vague. Something to the effect of, "With the removal of the Glass-Steagall Act, businesses were encouraged to engage in an orgy of high-risk reinvestment, which led to [etc, etc, where we now stand]." Or, a clarification if that's not what you're trying to say.
Stop the Looting, and Start Prosecuting!
Getting too specific is both dangerous and counterproductive. However, there are a couple big, broad strokes that I believe need to be painted.
First, OWS is not anybody's private army. It's not the Committee to Re-Elect Obama; It's not the Herman Cain Love/Hate Fest; It's not the Ron Paul Fan Club. It's not the New Green Party, the Democrat Tea Party, or the Trendy Libertarians' Knitting Circle.
OWS formed in response to an economic crisis unprecedented in its lack of attendant administrative response. Forget buses sitting unused during Katrina; our officials and our financial chiefs had all the tools to stop this from happening years in advance, and they just stood back to watch everything burn, then looted the wreckage and fled. OWS formed because our government has taken no significant prosecutorial or regulatory action regarding the criminal actions of a number of Wall Street loan sharks, actions that have unquestionably harmed every single person in the developed world, and which may be repeated under the status quo regime. OWS cannot afford to be satisfied with campaign pledges and promises. We do not have the time to fiddle around playing the same old game of slow pressure leading to eventual, "someday" reform. In examining individuals who claim to support us, actions and achieved results can be the only source of legitimacy.
Second, from everything I can perceive, OWS also cannot stand by those who stump for industry self-regulation, for an "invisible hand" that does not include a significant amount of governmental guidance (something Adam Smith quite explicitly encouraged in his explanation of the "hand" metaphor). Self-regulation is precisely the regime we currently suffer, the one that allowed bankers to conjure up bad paper and hand it off to investors, who in turn used complex instruments to speculate and massively, selfishly profit on the collapse of those loans. This practice must be prohibited by full force of law.
A halo of other arguments stand close to OWS's goals, and are quite debatable in our context -- campaign finance and procedure reform, trade reform, working conditions reform, bankruptcy law reforms, the direct prosecution of those involved in the collapse, and plenty more besides. The above two statements, however, I see as inescapable. No party/candidate ownership of OWS -- that is, zero tolerance for co-opting -- and new system-wide regulations on financial instruments.
An Open Letter to Occupy Wall Street Protesters
Congratulations! You are successfully focusing public attention on the root cause of our political ills. Moreover, you are doing so with dignity and grace -- qualities which will not only influence more people, but make it far harder for the Establishment and their political agents to employ their normal repressive methods. You occupy the moral high ground; do not give it up no matter the provocation.
But, as surely you must know, this act is only the first in a long drama. The system you protest is robust and designed to withstand challenge. The banks and corporations from whom you wish to wrest power are well organized and have, over many long years, fully institutionalized their political and social controls. Our adversaries have waged class war for well over a century, have much invested, and everything to lose -- a long and difficult struggle lies ahead.
With this in mind, now is the time to consider and shape a second act, even as the first continues to unfold. To be successful, this act must not only engender widespread protest but also dramatically enumerate that discontent. Or else, as is happening already, your efforts will simply be dismissed as theatric, but essentially meaningless, commentary by an insignificant fringe of malcontents.
And therein lies the essential contradiction -- the only undeniable measure of and outlet for public discontent is the ballot box. Yet elite control of both political parties makes this a futile exercise. Past well-organized and powerful protest movements were defused and broken by an electoral process dominated by party candidates. Third parties have, historically, been marginalized and had little practical effect. Moreover, time is short -- the next election is barely a year away.
But what might happen if you inject some unpredictability into this well ordered system? If you explicitly reject both party's candidates? What will their media report on election night if millions of us join your protest by writing in "None of the Above" on our ballots?
What might happen indeed...
Here is the one clear demand expressed by Dylan Ratigan
"Get the money out of Politics"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB7PwcC9qzw&sns=fb
It's too soon for specifics. We must be patient. This must not fit into anything that resembles current structures; that will keep the opposition guesting until we awaken more people from their sleep. Setting concrete goals now will let them decapitate us by picking them apart, for the same reason that there must not be leaders... Yet. Americans don't understand patience- its a fault of the corporate hyperculture. In this case, we must be everything they are not. Peace and patience. I am so inspired by all of you.
I think it is dangerous not to have a clear cause. Because of the possibility of getting co-opted and distorted our cause. If we have a clear demand it will not be easily distorted.
Read on below for Thom Hartmann’s “11 ways” (paraphrased where not directly quoted).
Rebuild America’s manufacturing base “[S]imply moving money around or creating a service economy (“Do you want fries with that?”) doesn’t produce long-lasting wealth in a country; only manufacturing does.”
Roll back the Reagan tax cuts “[W]hen top income tax rates on millionaires and billionaires are above 50 percent, not only does the gap between the very rich and the working poor shrink but the nation’s economy stabilizes and grows.”
Stop coddling Big Business “From too-big-to-fail to too-big-to-allow-competition, oligarchical corporations have come to dominate virtually every major sector of the American economy; the result has been the devastation of local economies and the prevention of new entrepreneurial small ventures.”
Promote an informed and educated electorate “[We need to] take our media back from the profit-hungry monopolies that have abandoned the public-service mission of media.”
“[E]very American, regardless of birth or station, should be able to get an education from primary school through postgraduate university programs, at no cost. Spending on the education of young people pays off handsomely when they go on to make the society richer and, because of their higher incomes, provide higher income-tax revenues.”
Create a universal (single-payer) health insurance system “[A] nation that liberates its citizens from worrying about getting proper health care is a nation of entrepreneurs, innovators, and stress-free families.”
Break the grip of money on our politics and government “We need to fix–seal, really–the revolving door between government and industry; repair our monetary, investment, and banking systems; and change how we finance campaigns….”
Kick our oil addiction “The solutions include a carbon tax, but we must act soon.”
Reduce America’s dependence on the military
“[W]e cannot force other countries by military might to adopt our values of democracy and an open society…they will steal our ideas and our values if we engage them constructively so they can see how they can benefit from those ideals.”
Address the problem of illegal hiring “[W]hat’s popularly referred to as “illegal immigration” [is in reality] a problem of economics and illegal hiring by American companies. … We can fix all of this by cracking down on companies illegally hiring “undocumented workers” and by tightening the labor market to shore up wages for American workers.”
Amend the Constitution to say that only humans are people “[F]or 130 years [since the U.S. Supreme Court gave corporations human rights under the Constitution] we’ve seen the creeping encroachment of the corporate form into rights our Founders fought and died for to give exclusively to humans. … The result–if not fixed soon–will be the complete transformation of this country from a democracy into a corporate plutocracy.”
Embrace alternatives to the traditional top-down investor-owned corporate form “[P]eople around the world are increasingly embracing these alternatives [such as worker-owned businesses and labor representation on boards of directors], because they are better for local communities, better for the workforce, and better for the environment.”
I suggest we add an amendment or two to the constitution!!
http://www.getmoneyout.com/
I agree but we need everyone to agree and we need to get everyone protesting to have a single clear demand. Money out of politics.
Yes. I would rather have a large number of people working for even one change we can agree on, than a small number working for everything I would like.
Listen to MAX KEISER, He addresses OWS directly on this issue.
Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert's GIABO Communique #1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjaZ2ldVVXY (from oct 2 2011)
Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert's GIABO Communique #2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yKoFBq6GYA
I agree with those. Is there anyone here who disagrees ? If so, please explain.
Demand a real and complete audit of the Federal Reserve, and an end to fractional reserve banking. Demand the resignation of Ben Bernanke.
At least SOMEthing is proposed!
It may be too late. The movement has grown so large because of it's vague goals, but now there's so many of us we may not be able to agree on a set list.
In order for something real to happen, the demands must be fairly specific. I don't think we can make such demands anymore, as the movement is diverse enough such that any demands would not represent the thoughts and views of the whole.
No more organization? What are you even saying? Free speech means nothing that's why you PAY for your voice to be heard my friend. Don't fight the system USE it to achieve your means.
I meant organizations are not people just like corporations.
I agree. On both the points and the prevention of being co-opted.
Very new facebook page focused on that one goal. No parties, no other issues.
Help it grow, develop and contribute. There is another one, run by a member of the controlled elite media. Personally, I am suspect of those in the media. This one was started by one person a few days ago. Hoping Americans can make it a ground swell issue.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Get-Money-Out-of-Politics/170454236375392
That page also wants term limits. I can't go for that.
Term limits, becuase we should not have career politicians. They were supposed to be our servants. They were never intended to stay in office for 20+ years(in many cases). They were never intended to be treated above the citizen. As in benefits, pensions, and such hi salary packages. This page also allows for people to submit comments as ideas. Those that get the most likes, and support are to be drafted together, if it gets a good amount of people contributing.
If someone is doing a good job in representing me, I encourage them to make a career out of it.