Forum Post: To All the Tea Partiers, Libertarians, 1%ers and everyone else.
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 14, 2011, 8:05 p.m. EST by Lork
(285)
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Let me tell you a tale by the brothers Grimm....
Afterwards you tell me how you felt after reading this.
- God's Food -
Once there were two sisters; the one had no children and was rich; the other had five children, was a widow, and was so poor that she no longer had enough bread to feed herself and her children.
In distress she went to her sister and said, "My children and I are starving. You are rich; give me a bite of bread."
The rich but hard-hearted woman said, "I don't have anything in my house either," and with angry words she sent the poor woman away.
Some time later the rich sister's husband came home and wanted to cut himself a piece of bread, but when he cut into the loaf, red blood gushed from it. When his wife saw this, she became horrified and told him what had happened. He hurried away and wanted to help. When he entered the poor widow's room, he found her there praying. She was holding the two youngest children in her arms; the three oldest ones were lying there dead.
He offered her food, but she answered, "We no longer need earthly food; God has filled three already, and will hear our prayers as well."
She had hardly uttered these words when the two small ones stopped breathing, whereupon her heart broke too, and she sank down dead.
State sponsored welfare is the way the 1% keep the 99% complacent.
http://www.academicamerican.com/recongildedage/topics/gildedage2.html
http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/database/article_display.cfm?HHID=144
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/06/the-dark-side-of-the-gilded-age/6012/
That being said - What I DO advocate is a return of the Homestead Act. And if people don't like society? We can train them to live in the woods! (I once wanted to do that)
Debate about the history of capital vs labor is beyond the capability of a forum like this. I don't have a problem with trade unions, in fact I think they are necessary, especially in resource extraction industries where factories or mines dominate small rural towns.
I agree with you about the homestead act. It and the 1872 mining act were two of the best legislation ever to come out of Washington. I also support squatters rights. Property rights ought not to be absolute but rather based on a "use it or lose it" basis.
time to go after their messenger www.occupyfoxnews.com
Ya going love this www.occupyfoxnews.com
thats what happens when you live beyond your means, the sister had too many children that she could not support. another reason why the economy crashed. it wasnt just lehman. it was all the 99% of us that are financially irresponsible borrowing money that we knew we couldnt pay back. all the money was borrowed out of...greed. oh the irony.
Oh yes...because if you get conned then it's your fault, right?
Here's the problem with your lame ass story. In our country, the story goes like this.
The poor woman goes to the rich woman, and asks for a bite of bread. The rich woman says "Instead of providing you with bread, I can show you how to grow it and make it yourself." The poor woman says "I have no time for that, we are dying. We need bread now" So, the rich woman gives the poor woman and her children a bite anyways.
The next day, the poor woman comes back, again asking for a bite. The rich woman says "Can I show you how to grow and make bread?" "Not today" says the poor woman. "We are dying, we need bread today". So, the rich woman offers another bite.
On the third day, the poor woman goes to the rich woman and says "I need another bite". The rich woman says "Sorry, not today. I offered you an opportunity to make and grow bread yourself, but you did not accept the offer. I cannot provide for you anymore." The poor woman says "You heartless bitch", and walked away. The poor woman and her children die.
Before she died, she told everyone in town that the rich woman was going to kill her, because she did not feed her. Meanwhile, nobody else was willign to feed her. Yet, after she died, everyone hated the rich woman.
Get your fucking story staight American. You're not starving, and yet 46% of you don't pay taxes at all. Stop standing in line, and start making the line.
I'd make the line if the multinationals stopped exporting my jobs to some third world shithole and evading taxes with tax havens and loopholes! Also - please stop influencing regulatory agencies to turn their backs towards you against the greater good. And isn't gainful employment one of the "demands" of the OWS?
And what the hell are you talking about? YOU'RE the one that robbed this country while calling yourselves "skilled" and "smart". We're not "punishing your success" if we demand that you pay your damn taxes. And PLEASE don't point to that bullshit pseudoargument where you ONLY look at capital gains and federal income tax while leaving out every other tax. The poor do not pay capital gains tax because they have no capital. As for federal income tax - the rates are lower for rich and YOUR wages have soared while OUR wages (if we're lucky enough) have either gone down or stagnated, thanks to this global race to the bottom that YOU initiated through buying out our officials.
As for the people who borrowed irresponsibly...glad I wasn't one of them. Yes it was their fault. But I would also like to say - they were being fooled and conned. Our media and all these conmen who try to sell us one thing after another are flooding us with bullcrap messages (remember when people actually pretended that they could predict the stock market?) that even those with -some- critical thinking end up being swallowed. Glad I learned from them, but - I do feel sorry for them.
What a hard heart you have.
a good christian story - those who have too many children end up starving. Wait thats not right...maybe just a story about human nature. Oddly my mother grew up like this one of seven, then six, then five, all said and done my great aunt was horrified by her lack of concern and begged my mother forgiveness just before she died....
...
-sigh-
we didn't sigh when it happened we cried. my great aunt cried - even though 35 years had passed since she ignored the cries of my mother's family...all the while wearing diamonds and furs. Sad. She had a dream about 6 mos before she passed saying she knew she was going to die in a short time and wanted us all to forgive her (we had five children in our family too) and she reunited with us and we were happy and about 5 months later she had a massive anurisym and died....a few days almost to the day she had predicted. Sad.
Indeed.
But -
"a good christian story - those who have too many children end up starving."
...yeah I dunno what that was for. Granted birth control is wise but...
What has this story got to do with Libertarians?
"Survival of the fittest."
"In a free market there are those who succeed and those who fail."
"Compassion over skill/work ethic/profession/etc. is immoral."
"Pull yourself up by the bootstraps!"
"You lazy protesters...get a job!"
You've got libertarianism all backwards. If you are interested in learning more about what you are attacking I suggest you go to www.lp.org and do some reading. Then if you have issue with any parts of the philosophy I will gladly discuss them with you but until then it's really moot to do so.
I'd also argue that many libertarian principles are being used in this movement. Decentralization of power being one, independence on anyone but yourselves being another, community at the grass roots level yet another. Like I said I think you have libertarianism confused with right wing neo-conservatism.
"independence on anyone but yourselves being another"
Gee I didn't know OWS was all about destroying the government and going back to the Gilded Age.
http://www.academicamerican.com/recongildedage/topics/gildedage2.html
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/06/the-dark-side-of-the-gilded-age/6012/
http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/database/article_display.cfm?HHID=142
http://occupywallst.org/forum/im-out/
I didn't co-opt anything into ows. Trust me I wouldn't do that. I simply drew a parallel. Don't jump the gun on me and please again look at the source if you want the information. Not what others say about the source info.
"Well thanks for giving me credit. I guess. I guess independence is a bad thing these days."
Nice way to put words in my mouth. But honestly now - do you really advocate a return to the Gilded Age?
That being said - I am AGAINST handouts. I just want to learn how to fish and a chance to fish with the big boys at the lake. Because the other people who were already there aren't letting us fish unless we agree to live like Somalians. Not asking for a fish to be handed here.
Dude seriously sounds like you would actually like libertarianism if you looked into it. It's all about equal opportunity without anyone getting in your way so long as you don't get in anyone else's way. It's not about hardheartedness or screwing anyone or returning to anything but proper governance that allows the people to control the power of government and not the government to control the people. I don't want to be lead around by the nose by a wall street banker or a Washington bureaucrat and that's why I'm a libertarian. You really should look further into it. www.lp.org
"independence on anyone but yourselves being another"
"end the FED"
Yep. These two were co-opted.
Well thanks for giving me credit. I guess. I guess independence is a bad thing these days.
""Other people do not exist for him, and he does not see why they should," she wrote, gushing that Hickman had "no regard whatsoever for all that society holds sacred, and with a consciousness all his own. He has the true, innate psychology of a Superman. He can never realize and feel 'other people.'"
""If [people] place such things as friendship and family ties above their own productive work, yes, then they are immoral. Friendship, family life and human relationships are not primary in a man's life. A man who places others first, above his own creative work, is an emotional parasite.""
This is what I meant.
Are those Ayn Rand quotes? If so you have libertarianism confused with objectivism.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-a-flat-tax-costs-the-poor-more/#comment-80937
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-flat-tax-is-unfair/#comment-70236
http://occupywallst.org/forum/flat-tax-is-a-scam-fight-the-infiltrators-with-som/#comment-80078
http://occupywallst.org/forum/flat-tax-is-a-scam-fight-the-infiltrators-with-som/#comment-80749
And apparently...so do some Libertarians...
I'm not talking with them though I'm having a discussion with you.
I get it man. Sometimes you got to take a hard line and strong point. I do it myself. When you try to get a point across and it just seems like people are not getting it you go a bit farther to an extreme to make your point. Same goes for us libertarians. Keep that in mind as well. I think we all realize there is a problem and can agree on what it is but we have differing opinions on how to solve it.
And I was saying that this story was directed towards people like the people I quoted above.
If you scroll through the comments you'll see a few of them here.