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Forum Post: Time to absolve student debt.

Posted 8 years ago on May 20, 2014, 6:11 p.m. EST by 99nproud (2697)
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[-] 5 points by LMA3 (3) from Los Angeles, CA 8 years ago

Here's an Electronic funk song that I put together which deals directly with the issue of student debt in the U.S. :


[-] 2 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Take student loans profit from private banks!


From the article:

"Student groups and other organizations focusing on younger Americans enthusiastically support Warren’s bill, under which new interest rates would range from 3.86 percent for loans taken out by borrowers when they were undergraduates to 6.41 percent for parents who took out loans for their children's college tuition, as well as for borrowers who took out loans to pay for graduate school.

The financial industry, perhaps not surprisingly, is less enamored with the proposal. The bill would allow borrowers to refinance loans owned by the private sector into new loans made by the Education Department. Paying off loans early deprives lenders of future interest income, causing paper losses.

Republicans appear to be dead set against enacting the proposal into law, but for different reasons. The Democrats proposed to offset the loss of future federal revenue by increasing taxes on the wealthy -- a pay-for idea that is anathema in conservative circles."

It is clear where our most passionate protest must be targeted.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

How do we buy your funky student debt song?

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Consider : The critical distinctions between the making of money and the creation of wealth is The Key to seeing through Wall Street’s illusions.

True wealth actually includes fertile land ; pure water ; clean air ; healthy food ; caring relationships ; healthy, happy children ; quality education and health care ; fulfilling opportunities for service ; peace and even time for meditation and spiritual reflection.

These are just a few among the many forms of 'True Wealth' - to which we should all properly expect a sound economy to contribute but Wall Street has so seriously corrupted the language however - that it is now difficult even to express the crucial distinctions between money (which is a facilitator of actual economic activity) & real wealth (the purpose of economic activity).

So called financial commentators will routinely use terms like wealth, capital, resources and assets when referring to the 'phantom wealth financial assets, which makes them sound like something real, substantial & tangible, whether or not they're backed by anything of real value. Similarly, they identify folks engaged in market speculation and manipulation as investors, thus glossing over the distinction between those who game the system to expropriate wealth and those who contribute to its creation.

In modern societies in which access to most essential of life from food and water to shelter and health care depends on money .. control of money is actually the ultimate instrument of mass social control.

Student Debt is the latest version on the theme of mass pauperisation. Oh for those halcyon days of mere wage slavery ... as that still applies but now with the added burden of Indentured Debt Bondage.

Where previously a single wage earner could still aspire to buy a house - now kids come out of Higher Education With Massive Debts that previously could - if not buy a house ... then would be a significant deposit. The kids of today and college leavers have no future at this rate and going forward it's going to have to be 'A Revolution Of Everyday Life' or .. a life of ''Generational Slavery To Compound Interest'' !!!

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] 5 points by Nevada1 (5843) 8 years ago

Like everything else, Education has been Weaponized.

[-] 3 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

"Rent or tuition" Sad statement of our college situation


[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

With 'Compound Interest Bearing Debt' being the weapon of choice !!! This oppression can not abide !!

fiat justitia ...

[-] 3 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago


for your edification

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

''Ivory Tower'' looks like a film everyone, especially the young - should watch :

Good find & good job I don't consider ''edification'' as 'condescending' lol !! ~{;-)

quid pro quo et pax ...

[-] 2 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

And some coming action/info




Our chanting & drumming has begun the criminal student loan movement.

All progress we claim and agitate for more!!

Solidarity, fight for debt relief, break up the banks!

[-] 3 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Wow, you rock.

[-] 2 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

& College has been corporatized!!


Obscene, & overwhelming.

But clear,& worth the great effort required to regain control for the people.


[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

And Scammers abound


We are victimized from all sides.

Increased bank policing is required

[-] 3 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Support this effort and agitate for more.


This is not party related. We need you to support the 99%

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

http://higherednotdebt.org/ & yep, I support The 99% - which is why I also append the following 23:25m video and an important article, below :

Even IF you think I ''can't put aside the childish flaming personal attacks'' - you still seem to need my validation for some reason. Ok then - pat, Pat, PAT on your head then. Happy now ? ~{:-p)

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Condescend much? "you still seem to need my validation for some reason. Ok then - pat, Pat, PAT on your head then. Happy now "

Don't need you at all, in anyway. That is simply your outsized sense of self importance.


[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

You do have a point of sorts tho' it was ''condescend li'l'' as opposed to ''condescend much'', I'd like to think ! My wudeness was an action in reaction to your- https://occupywallst.org/article/im-making-21-hour-mcdonalds-why-arent-you/#comment-1034104 - which was what I'd read just prior but I am vewy sowwy if I hurt your feelings & so by way of contrition - here you go : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-vW4rP0C_c .. fwends now ?

la paz, el amor y la luz ...

[-] -1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Are you speaking like an infant?

What a @#!$%^ moron. You think somehow that offends me? I'm not acting/speaking like an infant.

You think you've hurt my feelings.? You give yourself too much credit.

Just another useless post of schoolyard childishness.

Anything on student debt?

Occupy Boston hasn't been distracted by the politics of personal destruction


Read it and grow up please!!!!

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Uh-oh ... a total sense of humour bypass !!! Sad, IF it is permanent !! Relax will ya, lolol ?!

So again, perhaps try to play this li'l tune http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-vW4rP0C_c ..

Look around this very thread, IF you really want to see some of my links on ''Student Debt''.

Btw, do stop acting like an ''offended @#!$%^ moron'', pwetty please ;-) and try to also see


Finally, please do try to urgently reflect upon what the word ''contrition'' above - might mean.

ad iudicium ...

[-] 2 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Sounds good

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Does it ?! Really ?!! Are you sure ?!!!

ad udicium ...

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

I am sure that your comment/links sound good, yeah.

Have you changed your opinion on your previous comment.?

And the excellent link (which you've posted many times) shows how cutting interest and absolving/forgiving student debt is the desired/most beneficial approach.

I assume you agree? As such I support all efforts to cut interest (anyone proposing that?) and absolve student debt. Maybe debt forgiveness after working in low income communities for a time could be a 1st step. Also capping the payment based on income could help.

I will support ALL good efforts to improve this obscenity against working class people.

How sure are you?


[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Huh re. ''changed your opinion on your previous comment'' ?!!! Not sure on what basis you ask that !! Furthermore, you're final question leaves a bad taste and verges on contemptuous ! Elizabeth Warren has her limitations and here's what Thom Hartmann said in his link from my ''previous comment'' ...

  • ''You need to know this. On Monday, President Obama announced an executive order to help five million Americans pay off their student loans. This new action will expand on a 2010 law, which capped loan payments for certain debtors at 10 percent of their income. The earlier law only applied to students who took out federal loans after October of 2007, and who were still receiving loan disbursements on or after October of 2011. The President's new executive order will expand this program to people with older student loans, and it will help those who were formerly shut out of the program. It's great news that five million Americans will get some over-due help with their student loans, but the fact is, they never should have had to take those loans in the first place. Everyone should have the right to an education without leveraging their entire financial future. There is more than $1 trillion in outstanding student loan debt, and default rates keep rising. When students are paying back these loans, they are not paying for homes, cars, and other products. That money is simply being sucked right out of our economy, while the government makes a profit off the backs of people who are trying to get an education. The system is failing students, and it doesn't make a lick of economic sense. Rather than forcing young people into a life-time of debt, We The People should be providing higher education for free at public universities. It's time to guarantee everyone can get an education, and it's time for a debt jubilee that wipes all student loans off the books.'' Also fyi :

  • http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/24294-thomas-piketty-and-elizabeth-warren-discuss-why-the-rich-get-richer-and-the-rest-get-shafted

fiat lux ...

[-] 2 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago
[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

"Students Now Indentured to the Banksters", by Thom Hartmann :

''Never in the history of the developed world has an entire generation had to go into debt just to get an education and a job. Until now.

''Fortunately, we can undo a lot of this damage, and lift an entire generation of Americans out of piles of debt.

''It starts by declaring a debt jubilee on all outstanding student loan debt in America, and wiping the slate clean. Relieve millions of Americans from their crippling debt, so they can invest in homes, start families, and build equity.

''And, we need to make a public college education free to every American who qualifies for it.

''If we can afford to spend trillions of dollars fighting two unjust wars, we can certainly afford to give all eligible Americans an affordable and quality education at a fraction of that cost.

''And, finally, we should turn our back on 30 years of insane trade policies and bring good paying blue-collar jobs back home.

''Let's make sure that an entire generation never again has to go into debt just to get an education and a job.''

From your excellent and very enthusing link ... ''When elected officials don’t listen, sometimes people take matters into their own hands.'' Blessings and karmic boons be copiously bestowed on Francisco “Papas Fritas” Tapia for his heart ; his performance ; his compassion ; his art and his pro-99% praxis.

solidaridad ...

[-] 7 points by Nevada1 (5843) 8 years ago

Hello shadz, Went to a great state university (1970-74). Cost was so low, that it was not an issue----- It can happen again.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

http://higherednotdebt.org/ & it is the young who need to lead 'The Revolution Of Everyday Life'' that we all - and This Good Earth, need.

Solidarity Nev1.

pax ...

[-] 5 points by Nevada1 (5843) 8 years ago

Also, am unable to put into words, the value of that state university education. Feel bad for the young of today, being denied what we had.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

The 99% - like ''the young'' need to unite as .. ''they have nothing to lose but their chains''. I strongly recommend the following insightful article to you Nev1, for a deeper and more historical perspective :

fiat lux ...

[-] 0 points by wickerman (62) 8 years ago

So long as there are people "representing" Occupy in this manner: https://occupywallst.org/forum/socialism-and-capitalism-a-short-explanation/#comment-1033376




I am afraid that just isn't going to happen. The 99% aren't all socialists, or progressives, or capitalists, or conservatives. They are all of the above and more. A middle ground cannot be found on many issues, so the only thing we can do is unit on the few issues that we have in common. Folks pushing these far far left ideals, are only fragmenting the 99%, perhaps it is their intent?

[-] 2 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Inadequate as it is, this effort is a good step to help our young indentured 99%'rs.


We should pressure all representatives to support it and agitate for the eventual absolution & free public college that serves all of us best.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Words are an approximation of our thoughts which in turn, are an analogue of our feelings. Intellect and emotion are what make us truly and fully human but it's foresight and kindness that make us rise & be compassionate. So, am I my brother's keeper ? Yes, I am ! Are we our Mother (Earth)'s keeper ?!! Yes, we are !!! Generational ethos change doesn't need 51% or 99% .. it requires critical mass and time ~*~

The ideals expressed in those forum-posts that you link to, are broadly what I subscribe to (also see my comments in your second link) and I do not regard them as ''far far left ideals'' lol. Consider : Is Universal Healthcare for all, desirable ? Is a good education free of debt bondage desirable for all ? Is sound public infrastructure desirable ? Are good social services for the elderly, disabled and indigent - desirable ? Are Imperial Adventures for Banksters / Corporations detestable ? Do the words 'Democracy & Society' have any real meaning for us ? Are the questions that arise from 'Anthropomorphic Global Warming' - capable of being answered without recourse to both of those aforementioned words ? Planet & people over profit !

Americans - due to both miseducation and generations of Corporate MSM-BS have such a brain freeze when confronted with the word 'Socialism'. I believe in True Democracy ; A Meritocratic Society - where the best can fairly rise to the top of their competence and in a liberating, emancipatory Socialism for all.

Please also try to consider reading that Chris Hedges article on Thomas Paine in my previous reply and I further append and recommend the following links to you :

Finally, I would request you to peruse the post and comments here : https://occupywallst.org/forum/in-defence-of-the-broad-church-of-socialism-from-t/ and perhaps explore some of the links too. Solidarity !

per ardua ad astra ...

[-] 0 points by wickerman (62) 8 years ago

I think I'll just find another outlet, I will never submit to tyranny, be it corporate, governmental or collective. Nor will I ever surrender my individuality to be a part of some collective. I will not give up what I have worked for so that those who will not work may live in more comfort than I do. I came to this forum seeking a movement that represented the working middle class, I can see clearly that this one does not. That is really too bad. I guess we are on our own.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

OH DEAR, Oh Dear, oh dear !!! Brain freeze did it ?!! Sheesh, Mr. Wickerman !

You are so very fearful of 'socialism' (a word from the same root as 'society' btw) because of primarily miseducation and misunderstanding ; prejudice and propaganda and some deeply implanted fear that someone else is coming for your stuff !!! Now d'you pay taxes ?!! Do some of those taxes go towards- Benefits for Veterans ; Education ; Infrastructure ; Medicare etc. and how would do you define that ?!

You may grow and rear your own food & maybe even draw your own water but are your tools, vehicles and weapons forged by you ? Do you need roads and bridges ; schools and hospitals ? R U in living in some kind of 'splendid isolation ? Or are you like the rest of us - because 'man is dependent on man' ?

Do you accept that for society to run smoothly, there needs to be a balance between the 'individual and society' {or a ''collective'' as you fearfully call it} ? You need not ''give up'' anything and like it or not you are 'working class' because presumably you need to work either for yourself or sell your skill and labour, in order to earn money to pay your bills.

Please do forget some b-s notion of ''middle class'' - ''working'' or otherwise - it's a affectation specifically designed to divide and rule The 99%. If you object to excessive taxes or large public expenditures ... do you have any grasp or critique of The Massive USA Military Budget ?

I can do nothing for your irrational fears of abstract terms and words but I can [perhaps patronisingly and if so - sorry] recommend that you do a little reading possibly and definitely try to open your mind, soften your heart and lose your fear ~*~

Stop being a sap for The Corporations & further to the prior links, I append & recommend the following :

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

What? You don't think that occupy supports the working middle class? Well then your experience seems woefully lacking. That being said - don't you feel that the lower class - you know - the working poor - need support? The aim/goal should be to end up as a class less society - a society with no divisions - a society where everyone is as well off as everyone else. If you can't support something like that - you may want to do some soul searching.

[-] 3 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago
[-] 2 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Time to ratchet up the protests!!


These small steps forward can't be the end of our efforts. We have forced this issue into the national debate and can't let up now!

FYI, & a bump.

[-] 0 points by wickerman (62) 8 years ago

We are not socialists. We don't want a hand out, we just want a fair chance, without some mega corp stacking the deck against us. As long as your aim is to confiscate my or my neighbors property and redistribute it, then you do not support me, nor I you. What little I have, I have worked for and any one who tries to take it is is going to end up on my bad side very quickly.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

So - not social - got it. I don't want your property or your neighbor's. I want fair pay for all as well as complete health coverage for All as well as the end of toxic practices that are poisoning or air land and water.

[-] 0 points by wickerman (62) 8 years ago

"This movement is about ending corruption and crime of government and wallstreet among many other related issues."

You know, your probably right. I hope you are anyway, I had hoped that Occupy was about just that. But running into so many socialism posts, it is scary. I know that a lot of people discuss things on an academic level, but it isn't easy for me to look at things like that. I see the real world consequences of those plans or philosophies. As a farmer, years of experience have trained me to look at the worst possible scenario, and ask what else could go wrong. Looking at those plans, I can't see the sunshine and unicorns. You may be able to hope for the best, but you damned well better be prepared for the worst.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

So as a Farmer - are you against government aid/subsidies/programs for agriculture/farmers that are basically socialist ( umm - socialist programs - not the farmers ) ? It is all about perspective as well as knowing what things are. Social Security is Socialist - how do you feel about Social Security?

[-] -1 points by wickerman (62) 8 years ago

We are out of indents. "So - what you are saying - is? - that you have a problem with the posts of struggleforfreedom and some other individual." Yes, and I have a problem with no one else having a problem with them. I am the only one arguing against them. What is this movement about, is it about socialism, about property confiscations, no one else seems to find these ideas appalling. I don't oppose voluntary socialism, as in coops or worker owned businesses, I do oppose government mandated socialism, and I see no distinction between the people and the government in these terms. Most posts are talking about people voting on these issues a sort of direct democracy, in which case the people are the government.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

The People are "supposed " to be the government and our elected representatives are "supposed" to represent Us = The People. Yeah we are against property confiscation ( most of us anyway ) - like the illegal bank foreclosures for one. This movement is about ending corruption and crime of government and wallstreet among many other related issues. But if you have looked around - you should have picked up on this already. So maybe you need to do some more looking rather than confronting and denouncing what you apparently do not have a grasp on yet.

[-] -1 points by wickerman (62) 8 years ago

Have you read the forum posts that I referenced? They said nothing about fair pay, they talked about ending private ownership of means of production. My neighbors and I are farmers, we are means of production. The one post alluded to ending private ownership of everything, that we should just throw all of our possessions into a big pool and everyone share them equally. Those statements scare the hell out of me. I have seen combat, and I don't want my wife and kids going through that. But we won't be robbed by the collective. We are being robbed enough as it is. Hell my tax rate is 33%, not because I make a lot of money, but because I am self employed. The rich aren't paying for social programs I am. No one sees that, they see the rich, or the poor, to hell with the middle. We are fed up.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

So - what you are saying - is? - that you have a problem with the posts of struggleforfreedom and some other individual.

[-] -2 points by wickerman (62) 8 years ago

"So as a Farmer - are you against government aid/subsidies/programs for agriculture/farmers that are basically socialist ( umm - socialist programs - not the farmers ) ? It is all about perspective as well as knowing what things are. Social Security is Socialist - how do you feel about Social Security?" No, and I've never thought of those programs as socialist, I guess they really are. The Steagal amendment that I have mentioned on here many times, is the law that set up price parity for farm produce. What I am against is forced community ownership of property, the elimination through legislation of private ownership. As for Social Security, it is a good thing, but it has some serious problems that require attention. Mostly due to the governments mismanagement. So I can support what you are saying, but not the radical ideas of property seizure.

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 8 years ago

oh come on now! first of all nobody is taking away your family farm. secondly you will submit to tyranny like everyone else if and when it comes here. or you might put your body in front of the tank and be run over. find another site if you like but do not confuse some of the crap here with the truly great work many of those first occupiers are doing all over the country. it is not on the tv news but make no mistake - things are bubbling

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

at least, there are people paying us for work

[-] 0 points by wickerman (62) 8 years ago

Yes, and I pity the ones who aren't working, or who are being under paid. I can't afford to hire help. Hell I can barely pay my bills.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

guess I'll have to keep working

[-] -1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

No we support a "we're in this TOGETHER" approach. It's the right wing extremist conservatives who push the "you're on your own" mentality.

Example of how we can help each other/ourselves.


Join us. We need you

(BTW: Didja see repubs chose your town for their convention?)

[-] -1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Retire pols against debt relief.


Support those that do!


[-] -1 points by wickerman (62) 8 years ago

Nevada1 "being denied what we had" is everyone on this forum old (myself included)? Where are the kids, why are they not outraged and leading this revolution? We're too old for this, but someone has to step up.

[-] 2 points by silosam (10) 8 years ago

It is mostly the young people that I see leading this revolution although that is not the case on this forum.

Some of the young people (Occupiers) that I know personally in NYC have graduated from some great schools too, e.g, The London School of Economics, Cambridge Uni.., NYU, Harvard, Yale, Columbia Uni..., etc.

Most of them work very hard for the success of this struggle, but you will rarely if ever read about it in the MSM though.

[-] 4 points by silosam (10) 8 years ago

I would like to see more young activists on the forum.

I met Laura Gottesdiener the first time in either late 2011 or early 2012 in lower Manhattan. I remember thinking that this Yale graduate who I strongly suspected was born into white privlege would not be arouund long. How wrong I was. The next time I saw her was at an environmental protest in Washingtton....then a few months later, our paths crossed again on MLK night at a little church in Brooklyn that was very involved with the Occupy Sandy efforts, and then most recently Laura gave a presentation on her new book, A Dream Foreclosed.

Ms Gottesdiener was a track star at Yale. Her favorite inspirational quote is, "I don't run to see who's fastest. I run to see who has the most guts."...Prefontaine

I guess my point is, she is not an unusual person in the Occupy that I know.

Here are more of her writings - http://www.salon.com/writer/laura_gottesdiener/

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 8 years ago

we rarely read about those who do the real work of trying to change the world. the people in the trenches - nice job here silo

[-] 1 points by wickerman (62) 8 years ago

So they are there, I'm just not seeing them here. I guess that's a good thing.

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Repubs for Wealthy not students


Vote out anti student debt reform pols!

[-] -1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Repubs (predictably) block student debt easing


Young activists get the credit for all momentum/progress on this critical issue. Supporting easing student loan debt (& any/all efforts of protest/pressure/policy), as a step towards absolving that debt & implementing free public college.


[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Take action on student debt crises

The Senate is expected to vote tomorrow – Wednesday! – on legislation to allow graduates to refinance their loans. This bill would help millions of people across the country – particularly women, who struggle more than men to pay off their student loans because of the gender wage gap.

TAKE ACTION: Call your senators at 202.224.3121 and urge them to support fair student loans for everyone!

The Senate legislation would treat student loans just like other loans, allowing borrowers to refinance and lower their interest rates. According to estimates, as many as 25 million people would be eligible for this refinancing, which would help ease their heavy loan burden. The costs of refinancing would be offset by changing the tax code so that millionaires and billionaires pay their fair share of taxes (the so-called “Buffett Rule”).

Women need this legislation – a woman working full time typically makes less than a man just one year after college graduation, even after controlling for college major, occupation, hours worked, geographic region, and all other factors known to affect earnings. And that wage gap only grows over time! Yet while she makes less than him, their loan repayments are exactly the same (because men and women tend to take out the same amount of student loans).

Bottom line: The gender wage gap means student loan debt is an even bigger burden for women. That's why this legislation is so important – it will allow all eligible graduates to refinance their loans in a way that makes sense for them and their financial situation.

Call your senators today at 202.224.3121 and tell them to support the Bank on Students Emergency Loan Refinancing Act (S. 2432)! You can deliver this message:

Hi, my name is _, and I am a constituent. I urge the senator to support the Bank on Students Emergency Loan Refinancing Act (S. 2432), which would allow borrowers to refinance their student loans just like car or home loans. This would give millions of graduates access to a lower interest rate on their loans.

Women need this legislation, as the gender pay gap causes many women to struggle with loan repayment. A woman working full time is making less than a man within a year of college graduation, and the wage gap only grows over time. Yet while she makes less than him, their loan repayments are exactly the same. AAUW research shows that more women than men have a higher debt burden than they can afford. S. 2432 will allow all eligible graduates to refinance their loans in a way that makes sense for them and their situation. Thank you.

Lastly, please forward this e-mail to at least three friends, family, or colleagues! The Senate needs to hear from as many people as possible as it prepares to vote on this important issue.

Thank you, AAUW Action Network

P.S. Don't forget to call both of your senators! All you have to do is dial the Capitol Switchboard at 202.224.3121, and they'll connect you to each senator's office.

AAUW 1111 Sixteenth St. NW Washington, DC 20036

Then agitate for debt forgiveness!


Whattaya think?

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

It can happen again.

Yep - back then - there were better regulations and oversight - now a days = not so much - everyone who should be looking into funds funding expendetures and profits ( legalized theft these days ) - have been bought. It will take some serious housecleaning - BUT - it can still be done!

[-] 2 points by wickerman (62) 8 years ago

I went to a private university back in the 80's, and the cost was not nearly as out of proportion as it is now. $3000.00 per year in tuition, was outrageous back then (I had a scholarship) but you could make that much working a summer if you saved your money. Try that now even with a state school.

[-] -2 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Maybe Student/Labor coalition can help current student debt fight?


And just for fun check this out.


"have fun stormin' the castle!"

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

It's a Student Debt Jubilee that's really required, not further 'refinance arrangements' - so no, we don't agree on that article, as interest on debt is the killer question imo but in general re. La Warren - we do probably agree more than we don't as - ''Overall, about 40 million Americans have student loan debt'' !!

ad iudicium ...

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

I support a Student Debt Jubilee, on the street and beyond.

I also support any and all changes that will benefit the borrowers.

I can't let the perfect be the enemy of progress.

Protest, vote & protest.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

''Student loans are a big business. In fact, student debt now exceeds $895 billion which is more than the total Americans owe on their credit cards. And, most of these loans are underwritten by the US government, which means that the taxpayer is on the hook when students can't repay the debt. This is a big problem, because many of the people taking out loans are not really qualified for college, so they end up dropping out of school and defaulting on their loans putting themselves in long-term debt while passing the bill along to Uncle Sam. But not everyone loses on the deal. In fact, the institutions that help unqualified applicants get loans, do quite well. After all, they're paid in full by the government. If this sounds like it might be a scam; it's because it is. All the recruiters need to do is find a credulous subject, bamboozle him into signing on the dotted line, and hold his hand for the first few weeks of the new semester.'' from :

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas ...

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

"most people taking out loans are not really qualified for college"

In regards:


Whattaya think?

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

"most people taking out loans are not really qualified for college" I can't agree with that at all.

More likely a small percentage, and not enough to be the main problem with default.

Sorry, that's more of a 'blame the victim, distraction' from the real problem, which is..... overpriced colleges, predatory lending, poor employment prep, poor economic system.

Those issues are more to blame for the default problem.

Great articles!

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

So poor employment prep.

based on the idea IF you just step right| production will fall into place ?

[-] 2 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

This is societal self destruction:


Y'know what I mean?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

there are not enough jobs for everyone nor will there be due to efficiency of production

employers can still choose who to employ among many

we should be looking towards enlightenment though educations

and not making excuses for jobs that would exist if we had the skills

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Ok, I support enlightenment through education. Liberal arts and so forth.


I'm not quite ready to give up training/educating people for jobs, or fighting for better wages/conditions.

But I'm with ya otherwise.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

some politician gets up and tells me should should be converted to skill shops for hire corporations

when corporations should be able to train its own

lack of skill is just another excuse for lack of jobs

if those jobs were necessary, the corps could train people for them

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Guess corps rather train slave wage 3rd world workers.


[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

at least 3rd world workers, aren't educated about their rights

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago


[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

I believe most people are capable of doing most jobs

poor employment preparation should not be an issue

[-] 2 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

And yet, it IS.

Go figure.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

i can always hire someone else

[-] 2 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

I suppose any hiring is welcome in this economy.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

for jobs the demand exceeds the supply

people cannot function with out income

has as long as I've lived

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

3rd world workers are getting more informed everyday!


More info, more educated workers!!

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Student debt bill.


Inadequate effort.

More pressure!

"release the hounds!"

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

''A biartisan effort addressing the student loan crisis is underway with new legislation aimed at making payments more manageable and reducing defaults. The Dynamic Repayment Act was introduced in the Senate last week by Senators Marco Rubio (R-Fl.) and Mark Warner (D-Va.). Struggling borrowers are no doubt hopeful about possible relief, but no one should hold their breath. Congress will still have to approve.'' - from your link.

I don't really know about Warner but Marco Rubio is an insidious s-o-b but thanx anyway. A mass campaign of non-payment would be what I would advocate but I'm a believer in collective, mass non-violence and given to notions like that.

dum spiro, spero ...

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

I also support a mass campaign of non payment.

I support all non violent tactics mostly.

Here's to that

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Re. The Student Loan Crisis in The UK, please consider

Yay Hobby Lobby ??? https://occupywallst.org/forum/aahhhaaaaahahahaha-what-heeeheheheheeeee-what-sorr/

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Huh ?! Re. ''Hobby Lobby'' ?!! Que es eso ?!!!

solidaridad y paz y luz ...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Did you check out the post? It's about possible slap-back due to the stupreme corp(se) ruling. The article is about abolishing student loans - but could be applied widely across the lending/financial field.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

I don't know about ''Hobby Lobby'' and I had clicked on your link and read your forum post and so will copy your link here now before I read it :

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Enact Buffet rule to help student borrowers


You support that?

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Happening NOW!! Fight for student debt absolution!!


Do you representatives support this goal.?

Occupy the debt!



[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Holy Shit man - are you a machine or something, lol ?! I have used your excellent second link myself, elsewhere and do strongly recommend it to all !! Re. Oblah-blah and your 'Huff.Po' link ... horses and barn doors do come to mind as does the word ''sop'' !!! Here's Thom Hartmann's take on it all tho' ...

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas ...

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Ronald 'The Senile Gipper' Reagan was such a fkn disaster for US & somehow some folk think it was such halcyon days back then !!! He - or rather his 'Chicago School' Neoliberal Economic Hitmen laid down the roots of so much of the b-s that Americans have to face now !! Sadly lots of deluded Dems (especially On-The-Hill) still like him and think like him ffs !

From your http://www.salon.com/ link : ''Reagan assailed the Free Speech and antiwar movements, promising the taxpayers that if elected, he’d get college kids off picket lines and back in class. With comments like '“They are spoiled and don’t deserve the education they are getting” and that the state “should not subsidize intellectual curiosity,” he won in a landslide. Fourteen years later, Reagan was elected president, running against a host of mythical foes from “welfare queens” to an omnipotent “Evil Empire,” but he and his administration never shed their antipathy toward “elitist” campuses and the young people who dared question the system.

''The students Reagan loathed were the beneficiaries of a consensus that paired the GI Bill with the post-Sputnik explosion of higher education to offer no- to low-cost access to public institutions, and aid to those who needed it to make private college possible. Students were not expected to shoulder the burden of their educations alone, and this freed them to explore who they wanted to be and the kind of America in which they wanted to live. There were many adults, of course, who despised them for just this freedom, and powerful forces terrified of the changes they saw coming.'' Also fyi :

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Reagan accelerated the exploitation of the 99% by selling the voodoo economics of trickle down/supply side.

We have only just begun to unravel the scam that redistributed the wealth of the workers to the 1%.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Reagan was a fkn disaster & here's insight into the roots of ''the scam'' :

multum in parvo ...

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Yeah man. It's deep, I've read it.

And a great illustration is what college (public/private) cost (topic specific) before 1980 and since.


Time for the clamp down


[-] -1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Yeah we shouldn't support any progress unless we get everything.

Maybe we should agitate for more while pushing for this small benefit.?

In fact this small step (which IS opposed by some pols) will save millions of working class people thousands of dollars a year.

I agree it's late, it's little, but I gotta support policies that will benefit the working class.

I can't let partisanship muffle support for progress with childish namecalling. (that is so f#$@in' 'American tv')

The issues are too important.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Perhaps meditate on ''sop'' ?! I think ''partisanship'' is as 'parDisanship' does here on this forum !! Finally, re. Obummer - ''childish namecalling'' has its uses, for the venting of some well justified frustration, lol !!!

multum in parvo ...

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Inspire suburbanites!! (middle class) (apathetic)

Increase demands as the demonstrations/debate grow!

Join with like minded organizations/people.

Great guidelines



Fight the power!

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

''The student debt problem is one that has deep financial ramifications. Around 40 million people owe money for their college education, and student debt is estimate to be around $1.2 trillion. The burden of paying such high costs and interests have prevented many from taking risks in seeking jobs as well as preventing them from making large purchases like cars or homes.'' From your link & also see :

fiat justitia ...

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Bail Out The 99% instead of The Banksters !!! Can you imagine what effect bailed out mortgage holders and students would have on The Real 99% Economy ?!! 'QE' is still pumping ''money'' [whateverTF thAt is these days!] into the 1%, 0.1% & 0.01% - because Democrap or Republicunt, The Pols Are Bought !

multum in parvo ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

And by bailing out the 99% - hell even the criminal uncharged untried unsentenced Banksters would benefit - as their way too top heavy mortgages and student loans with the frankly usurious ( illegal ) terms and and and and ................................ would be paid off....................

[-] -1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Private, for profit online colleges preying on veterans and the poor.


Another part of this problem.

[-] 7 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

''Student loan debt, an astronomical $1 trillion across the U.S. economy, disproportionately affects low-income college students, especially those who lack the option to attend public and non-profit universities. An increasing number of young people living in poverty are attending for-profit universities and are forced to take out student loans to cover tuition costs. The Obama administration, in its critique of the for-profit university sector’s loose tuition regulations, highlighted that for-profit universities account for 13 percent of the college student population, but its students comprise nearly half of those with college loan defaults, demonstrating the disproportionate impact of student loans on students living in poverty.'' From your link & fyi and in compliment I append a cross-link to :

avarita facit bardus ...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

For Profit Educational System = It Sucks - for one - the life's blood from students.

I mean - REALLY

Many of these institutions for higher learning - actually develop new technologies - technologies put to work in industry.


How come the institutions can't finance their operation off of the new tech proceeds and share it with the students who help in it's development as well as provide education free to those who would study there and go on to work from there?

Are for profit institutions stupid when it comes to money management? I guess that that is a stupid question = modern economics and the dying economy - HUH. Though getting back to the question again - are they stupid? I think it has to do with their GREED and what they are allowed to get away with as a for profit institution.

Much like what is allowed in all big for profit operations - they are allowed to get away with murder ( quite literally ).

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

''How come the institutions can't finance their operation off of the new tech proceeds and share it with the students who help in it's development as well as provide education free to those who would study there and go on to work from there?'' ... Stop being so logical will ya, lol and huge hrumph ?! Also fyi :

ad iudicium ...

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Obscene isn't it:

On a lighter note:


Seems comical and grossly insufficient. But I wouldn't block the idea. Perhaps have the tax credit covered by taxing fin corps.


[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

''With an average $29,400 per bachelor’s degree, student loan debt impedes economic growth. Money that would otherwise be going toward a car, retirement and all the non-essential consumer expenditures that grow the economy are going toward debt instead. And while $30K is a lot of money, there are ways to get your arms around it -- especially with a little help from the IRS, a friendly employer, or generous friends who see the upside of paying a college education forward.'' - Excerpted from your link, from where I also extracted ...

Me. myself & I .. think fk all this tinkering and write off Student Debt & breath life into the economy from a standard Keynsian p-o-v ..but the real fkn problem is that that debt has been sliced, diced and re-sold as ''an investment vehicle'' via rehypothecation, derivation and derivatives !!! Bankster Mthrfkrs are totally out of control ! Time to WTFU and make like 'The Nazarene' ... when he caused a riot at The Temple !

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (23707) 8 years ago

"93 Public College Presidents Make More Than President Obama"

See the list here:


Until we get rid of these bozos not much will move on student debt, unfortunately, and that list is just public schools.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Nearly 100 public college presidents and chancellors made more money in 2013 than President Barack Obama and first lady Michelle Obama.

A review by The Huffington Post of the annual report from The Chronicle of Higher Education showed that the heads of 93 colleges made more than the Obamas' reported total income of $503,183 for the year.

Nine public university presidents, out of that group of 93, made more than $1 million in 2013.

The Obamas' 2013 income represents a fall-off from 2012, when the first family reported earning $608,611. Yet even compared to that higher figure, 54 colleges and chancellors still made more money in 2013 than the Obamas did in 2012.

Colleges have been on the defensive on presidential salaries since the Chronicle's report was released in May, around the same time as research from the Institute for Policy Studies showing that many of the state schools with the richest presidents had students who were collecting more debt than the average public university graduate.

Take the University of Michigan, for example. In a May letter to the IPS, shared with The Huffington Post, the school argued in defense of UM President Mary Sue Coleman's pay. Coleman collected $603,357 in base salary in 2013, but $1,037,357 in total compensation. The IPS put Michigan on its list of "Most Unequal Public Universities," noting that student debt at UM rose 18 percent between summer 2006 and summer 2012, with the average graduate carrying $27,815 upon receiving his or her degree.

"As leader of the University of Michigan, our president is responsible for three campuses, a $2.5 billion Health System and the largest research portfolio among public institutions in the United States," the university wrote in its letter to the IPS. "Her compensation is commensurate with her position in a highly complex organization."

But critics argue that the president of the United States runs something much more complex on a base salary of $400,000.

This disparity was highlighted prior to the Chronicle and IPS analyses. In April, the American Council of Trustees and Alumni released a report pointing out that at least 32 schools had paid their chief executives at least $400,000 in 2012.

“The American people are directing millions of dollars to these universities and the return on investment seems too often to be lower academic standards, wasteful spending, and plenty of student debt," Anne Neal, ACTA president, said at the time of the report's release.

Meanwhile, a majority of people graduating from public colleges are carrying student debt, often in excess of $26,000.

Coleman retired from the University of Michigan this year. Her replacement, Mark Schlissel, will make a base salary of $750,000, as well as receiving a $20,000 annual retirement fund, a $100,000 annual retention bonus, and a free house, driver, car and allowance, according to The Ann Arbor News.


Copied verbatim under 'Fair Use' from your HuffPo. link above because it was warranted to do so ! OutFKNrageous bw !! More examples of 0.01% Larceny and 1% Enabling !

Thanx for your excellent link which is full of useful embedded links & here's a wee url for a big-ideas web-site I found recently :

fiat lux ...

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Nearly 100 public college presidents and chancellors made more money in 2013 than President Barack Obama and first lady Michelle Obama.

A review by The Huffington Post of the annual report from The Chronicle of Higher Education showed that the heads of 93 colleges made more than the Obamas' reported total income of $503,183 for the year.

Heh - and people wonder (?) why tuition is skyrocketing. Heh.

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Loan forgiveness options:



(great stories, thx)

[-] 7 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

The point is Student Debt Jubilee - tho' I do get your link. Joining The National Guard or Peace Corps just isn't an option for lots of young folk. Also fyi here on this thread :

Finally .. We Must All Get Clued Up About The Nature Of Compound Interest !!!

fiat lux ...

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

So sue them!


Keeping student debt in everyones line of site.

[-] 2 points by OccupyNews (1220) 8 years ago

Always hedge your bet. Freezing interest rate charges, penalties and fees so that every future payment made goes 100% towards paying down the debt would be a huge victory as well. http://www.debtneutralitypetition.com

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

I agree.

How about forcing banks (as punishment for their unscrupulous cr card practices) to forgive half the high interest, multi year, cr card (and therefor principle paid back multiple times over) debt.

Remaining debt s/b low interest, low fee.

Otherwise threaten to offer 0.1% interest to cr card recipients (through the fed, post office) for cr card debt consolidation.

[-] 2 points by Shule (2638) 8 years ago

How about just stop using credit cards?

[-] 2 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Good advice. I do support a means to borrow money cheap for low/middle income workers. I like a public option through the Fed (they lend to banks @ near zero percent)? using Post Office?




These are interesting groups:



Vermont is frequently at the progressive edge


I'm open to different options for banking going forward, but I believe strongly that the current trillion dollar cr card debt (indentured servitude) has been run up because of dishonest, unethical, predatory business practices by the banks/crcard corps.

Those financial institutions s/b punished by losing at least half that trillion dollar total.

Now that would help the 99%

[-] 0 points by Shule (2638) 8 years ago

You hit on a complex and convoluted topic that deserves some serious no joke discussion. I'm not sure where to start, but let me start with my own experience thirty something years ago when I got out of school with a $40k debt and started my first job at $16k/yr (good money back then.) I lived in utter poverty for about eight years, but payed off my student debt. From a fast google search it looks like with a average college tuition of about $23k/yr over four years a student these days will rack up a debt of just under $100k, and with any luck will on the average land a job paying around $45k/yr. What an average person who is just getting out of school is facing these days its not a whole lot different than what my generation had to deal with; a debt/first year income ratio of around 2, Unfortunately, I find a lot of young folks walking around with smart phones, and lab tops, and driving fancy cars. I used to hitchhike to work. A lot of predatory banking is based on lulling people into borrowing money who should not be borrowing money in the first place, thus screwing the more responsible rest of us.

As far as racking up credit card debts for any reason, that is totally toxic. Both those who are loaning it out, and those who are racking it up should be given jail time.

I do believe we need to help our up and coming generations get on with their lives. I like the public banking idea. I feel though low interest rates is not the way to go. Low interest rates screw over older folks who have accumulated money. If they put they but their money into a bank, they can't get any return on it. That leaves older folk to having to play russian roulette on the NYSE with their retirement money. Its better to have higher interest rates, say at 7 to 8%, and loan it out only to those people who are responsible and resourceful enough to pay it back.

As to helping young people out with their college tuition, better sense would be for benefactors who do have a little extra money to find it in their hearts to simply help students with their tuitions upfront. That is much better than donating it to artwork in a museum. The government could raise taxes on those who can afford it, i.e. the 1%, and use that money to cover costs at public schools, and provide grants to good students. One can look at it as investing in the future of America. But that might be asking too much of the 1%?

[-] 3 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

In fact, the current generation is dealing with an absolutely overwhelming, & impossible financial situation that is nothing like 3 decades ago.

The solution must focus on improving circumstances for the decent hard working American borrowers who have been victimized. Jail time for them is counterproductive.

The loan shark, usurious, banksters are the criminals not the borrowers.

Debt Jubilee!


[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 8 years ago

very good ideas - I am sure we agree on the broad outlines of what needs to be done on almost all of the big issues. what I would like to know is which of your favorite dems support that? how do I vote for them?

[-] 2 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

I'm not comfortable telling people who to vote for.

Maybe you can tell us all how your representatives vote/stand/speak on student debt reform.

Do you know?

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 8 years ago

my rep happens to be VERY good but very few of them across the country are - as I am sure you know. that is the problem - when candidates from both parties are weak at best there is nobody to vote for. what I was looking for from you is a list of people who do support these types of initiatives. you do know what Clinton and the dnc did as a strategy don't you

[-] 3 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

It is best you do your own research. I do post current info that covers specific candidates but still that is MY perspective/opinion.

You must do your own work, as I know you do. You don't really need "a list" from me.

Protest, vote, & protest again.

[-] -1 points by flip (7101) 8 years ago

does it ever tiring dodging all the questions? very dishonest way to discuss on an ows site. are you really serious about your time here then you should step up and work like a "big boy"! now to the dnc and Clinton - how about some info from you. and who should I have voted for when cristi beat Corzine - I need your opinion here - step up son

[-] 2 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Let me see:

"dodging", ???? Never have.

"dishonest", ??? Not me. Don't bother offering examples/proof, I don't care what you think.

"really serious" ?? Why do you question my seriousness, rather than post something thread related?

"big boy" "step up son" LOL. You are too funny.

All off topic, personal attacks, & transparent distractions.

You want my opinion about a race half a decade ago in a state I do not live in? What purpose would that serve? Was there a student debt issue in that race?


[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Does this help you decide who to vote for?


If you tell me your representatives Maybe we can ascertane their position on Pell grant increase.

[-] -2 points by Shule (2638) 8 years ago

The numbers don't show it; a person getting out of school thirty years ago carried about as much debt in relative terms as a person does today. Sure $100,000 debt is daunting, but once a person gets a steady job with a little diligence that debt can be paid off in ten years time. Many of us in my generation had to go through it. I did. Now, in all fairness, it probably is tougher to get a fair job these days than it was back then (but for college grads, I'm not sure about that either. The job market was very tight in the '80s also.) But there is where the real problem most likely lies, the lack of good paying jobs, and not so much in the amount of debt a college graduate racks up.

The reason I say that is there is another side to the debt problem. Most people think the money they are borrowing is the bank's. Its not. Banks don't loan out their own money. They loan out other people's money; the money of decent hard working Americans who worked all their lives and accumulated a modest amount of wealth. The money is mostly in the form of pension plans, 401K and insurance accounts, and things like that. So, when people who borrowed money don't pay on their debts, its those other hard working Americans who get screwed, and not the banks. And when a bank goes belly up, its the taxpayer who then pays to cover the debts not payed in the form of FDIC insurance, and bailouts. So, absolving a debts simply because people who after they borrowed money suddenly think its too much to pay back is no viable solution to the problem.

As far as borrowing on a credit card goes, that is akin to a druggie buying a hit from a pusher. Ok, so the druggie is a victim too. In all fairness and compassion, druggies really ought be put in mandatory rehab instead of jail. Maybe there can be some form of mandatory borrower's rehab that credit card junkies can be sent to??

[-] 3 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Corrupt banksters benefit from unfair lending practices regarding cr card, student loans, and mortgages.

Decent hard working Americans have been the target, and victim of these dishonest bankster lending practices.

"And when a bank goes belly up, its the taxpayer who then pays to cover the debts not payed in the form of FDIC insurance, and bailouts."???

Really? How?

You offer a weak argument to place blame squarely, and exclusively on the lenders. Clearly you stand with the corp oligarchal banksters.

I stand with the decent hard working Americans who have been duped by the corp oligarchs that have consolidated their power, & wealth for the last 34 years under the destructive fallacy of republican trickledown economics.





[-] -2 points by Shule (2638) 8 years ago

Borrowing money without having a clear way of paying it back is not being honest, not to the lender or to oneself.

There already is a legal way to absolve oneself of debt you know; it is called declaring bankruptcy.

No I do not stand for the oligarchy that is making a mess of things. I stand for those ordinary Americans who worked hard to get a little money together for their retirement, and future of their grandkids who do not want to see their savings washed away by irresponsible scum and those who do not know how to handle their own finacial affairs. And I'm trying to show you and the other fools out there who apparently owe a lot of money how to deal with those oligarchs who are making a wreck out of our world while getting themselves out of the financial morass they are apparently in.

[-] 3 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

The banksters took advantage of honest hard working Americans. They lied, misled, gave people subprime loans when they qualified for better terms.

Banksters changed terms mid loan, imposed unfair fees & penalties, changed laws (lending, & bankruptcy) using unfair influence (bribes) of the peoples representatives, then crashed the world economy and created the worst unemployment crises since the great recession.

Hence the debt crises.

I stand with the honest, hard working American borrowers who did nothing wrong and got victimized by corrupt, greedy corp oligarchs.

In fact, banksters should just be closed down, & ALL debts absolved. Cr card, Student loans, Mortgages!!

That'll learn 'em!!

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

Money borrowed IS money to be returned but the high compound interest on borrowed money is despicable because it is unsustainable in reality so having it around leads to inevitable booms and busts in our economy, hurting innocent people.

If the (Non-)Federal (No-)Reserve can loan money to our national banks with interest rates of 0.25 to 0 percent, we should drop student loan interest rates to the SAME level. An education is worthy of funding at least as much as multi-million-dollar bonuses for the murdering bastards.

[-] 3 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Sure 0.25%,

Of course I also support pressurng private colleges to cut tuition costs

And debt forgiveness for working in disadvantaged, under served areas.

And the Student Debt Jubilee.

All of it!!! And more!! We fight until education is free for all.!!

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

Do you realize that online education NOW is almost free for all who have broadband Net access? There are Coursera, Udacity, Code.org, MIT Open Courseware, etc. - just far too numerous to list! Virtually every college and university has educational materials available. There are also libraries, national laboratories, company websites, PhD theses, preprint papers at arXiv.org, and so on. Wikipedia is good for a first cut for reference materials and a potential backbone for hanging primary knowledge on. Critical thinking is recommended for using ANY Net material.

Those who thirst for knowledge can drink their fill from the knowledge hydrant of the Net. Getting a few years of country-club living (and partying) at a private college and the sheepskin to placate the employers who do not pay for the educational costs are the real causes of the student debts. Gandhi said, "Be the change that you want to see in the world." Start your own business to compete against those requiring a sheepskin.

For the first time ever in all of human history, free education has already become available to many people worldwide! Meetup.com is good for locating like-minded people in your area to tackle your interest, be it studying, sharing, or doing a business. Everyone can benefit from some comrades of interest.

[-] 3 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

The momentum represented by what is happening on the net is in fact towards free college education.

We must and will continue agitating for that and of course we WILL succeed.

I hope you are with us.

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

The real problem is NOT that college education is too expensive. The real problem is that the college education may not confer sufficient economic benefits to offset its costs. I think that we are nearly at free college education as far as the knowledge is concerned.

For existing student debts, dropping the interest rates to the same level (below 0.25%) as given to the national banks and making them simple interests makes sense. Amending the bankruptcy laws so that student loans can be discharged can also help.

[-] -1 points by Shule (2638) 8 years ago

Why would anyone agree to borrowing money at high compound interest? That is a sure formula for diaster.

[-] 4 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

Some are ill-informed newbies to the financial jungle (such as robbed-from-the-crib college students). Some are desperate financially due to adverse circumstances (illnesses with uncovered medical expenses, job losses, disabilities, possessing skills not/no longer in demand, etc.).

I wish that everyone were as knowledgeable as you are about compound interests' potential deleterious effect. Albert Einstein said that compound interest amazed him most. I became wary about it because I learned from the Biblical story of the Tower of Babel. It is unfortunate that some people do not heed ancient wisdoms due to their being intermixed with tribalism, superstitions, aggrandizements, contradictions, or factual inaccuracies. The baby comes with soiled diapers and dirty bath water. Just don't throw out the baby with them.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

The murdering bastards amended our bankruptcy laws BEFORE the bollock hit the fan in October of 2008. The housing market was keeling over by January 2007 as pronounced at Davos (DR Horton knew it even earlier). The eelites knew what was coming but they certainly knew how to protect against losing their money to the upcoming bankruptcies (mostly created by themselves, no less, think CountryWide and [unregulated] credit default swaps and mortgage-backed securities).

Worse yet under the tightened bankruptcy laws, federal student loans could no longer be discharged through bankruptcies. The federal government will deduct from the social security payments to the former students. If Freedom Industries can get away with their water-polluting liabilities, why should former students not get away with paying back their loans in their retirement or disability? This is blatant double standard amounting to overt favoritism or discrimination - With malice towards others and NO charity for all!

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Petition:Increase Pell for low income students


Please sign

[-] 1 points by OccupyNews (1220) 8 years ago

99nproud, I have a really good solution. As punishment for committing credit card insurance fraud for the past 15 years (overcharging for credit card insurance by a factor of 5 to 10 times too much), I advocate for a 65% reduction of all credit card debt since consumers were left with no means to protect themselves if they suddenly lost income.

Then I would raise the monthly minimum payment from 2% to 5% on the remaining credit card debt, which would mean approximately the same monthly payment going to the credit card companies as before, but the consumer would actually be able to afford to pay off the debt if they so chose to do so.

The debtor now has 65% less debt AND the ratio of principal to interest rate would instantly improve as well. It's really an amazing solution as it would not interrupt credit card payment levels for the banks while shedding 65% of the debt for consumers AND, people would not run up as much future debt either because of the 5% monthly minimum payment.

[-] 3 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Sure, I understand the concept of higher min payment, & am not against it. I think that the need to get cash into the pockets of the indebted wouldbe best served by cutting the monthly payment initially for the lowest income people perhaps.

I also believe the new interest rates must be capped somewhere below 10 %. And Fees, penalties must be lowered as well.

Much must change in this loanshark based lending system.

[-] 1 points by OccupyNews (1220) 8 years ago

If everybody's debt is lowered by 65% while their monthly minimum payment goes from 2% to 5%, then their next monthly payment will actually be virtually identical to what it was the prior month before the 65% reduction.

The good news is the ratio of interest charges to what goes to principal reduction leaves more spendable money than before. Nothing really changes other than the person has significantly less debt and a better ratio of respendable money versus the money that goes into the banking abyss.

Plus, it is becomes easier to pay down the debt all the way and more difficult to crank it up without feeling it. I think that is the key, increasing debt should be felt as a hardship sooner rather than later, and this concept does this.

[-] 2 points by OccupyNews (1220) 8 years ago

Interesting review. Not sure I agree with the conclusion...

"Dr. Hossein-zadeh in this chapter also looks at the limitations of the Occupy movement, arguing that while their heart was in the right place, Occupy activists had condemned themselves to be ineffective as a long-term force for change by refusing to adopt an organizational structure or outline specific demands. The author thus points us back to the critical role of labor to play in this regard, but that it is essential that they organize and coordinate globally, otherwise capital will be able to outmaneuver workers’ resistance and subject labor to its logic. In the end, Hossein-zadeh remains hopeful based on the seeds of international labor organizing that labor will be able to meet this challenge in the future and serve as a primary catalyst for meaningful socio-economic transformation." end quote.

I believe in simplification. Debt Suspension Rights for Consumers which presently don't exist. www.debtsuspensionrights.blogspot.com

Debt Neutrality Petition, which is the implementation of Debt Suspension Rights. www.debtneutralitypetition.com

...and a NEW Wall Street that has NOTHING to do with the present wall street.

[-] 2 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Signed. Everyone should sign!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23707) 1 year ago

Forgiving student debt is one thing Biden can do without the permission of Manchin or Sinema. But,will he do it?

He promised that he would forgive $10,000 per student. Biden has not gotten much else done but this he could do all on his own.

If he doesn't, Bernie Sanders should sweep in and run against him in 2024. Well, he should run against him anyway.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

"Over 80 Democrats say it’s Time for Biden to Cancel $50,000 of Student Debt" by Sharon Zhang:

et spero meliora!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23707) 12 months ago

"Consumer debt totals $15.6 trillion in 2021, a record-breaking increase"


2nd only to mortgage debt is student loan debt, which is more than even credit card debt and auto debt. Holding not only our young people back but many older people too who either took loans as older students or who are paying the student loans for their children and grandchildren who can't due to low pay and huge costs of living in America.

"Most Americans want Biden to prioritize student loan forgiveness, CNBC survey says"


When even CNBC gets it, that student loan forgiveness needs to happen, you have to wonder what is in the mind of President Biden who ran on this item by promising to forgive at least $10,000 of debt for every student but who has still failed to do so.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 11 months ago

"'Cancel It. Every Penny': Poll Shows 83% of Democrats Want Biden to Nix Student Debt"!

"Even Americans who don't carry student debt themselves, are sympathetic & supportive of loan forgiveness."

fiat justitia!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23707) 11 months ago

What is Biden waiting for? He can cancel student debt by executive order but he chooses not to even though he ran on that promise.


The student loan debt that creeped up on Americans after Reagan's harmful presidency is unfair and is a blight on American society.

Why should younger generations have to shoulder so much debt when their parents (shouldered much less) and their grandparents shouldered none!

This all while pensions, secure jobs, living wages and health benefits have disappeared.

So not only do we expect our young people to pay these ridiculous sums of money each month, we expect them to do that while they earn far less than their parents or grandparents ever did and while fewer and fewer have any benefits to speak of.

The selfishness of the older generations who allowed Reagan's neoliberal policies to take over this country while they themselves benefited is an atrocity!

Joe Biden should cancel (not forgive, because there is nothing to "forgive," these students were simply trying to better themselves) all student debt now!

What kind of society do we want to live in? One where everyone is uneducated? Yeah, that probably would suit the greedy creeps that are running things. The stupider the masses, the more they can continue their exploitation.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 10 months ago

"Private Student Lenders are lobbying to get the Biden admin to end the pause on Federal Student Loan payments. The Pandemic Relief -- which WH is considering extending beyond May 1 - has hurt demand for private loan products, cut into profits":

radix omnium malorum - est cupiditas!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23707) 10 months ago

PUT SOFI OUT OF BUSINESS, that's what Biden would do if he were any kind of leader.

"SoFi, one of the largest student refinance companies, told investors earlier this month that the Biden administration’s last extension of the payment freeze in December was expected to reduce the company’s profits by $20 million to $25 million in the first quarter of this year."

Thanks for that piece. It just sickens me that Biden has the power to transform young people's lives (in particular, though many older people have student debt as well) and he chooses not to friggin' do it. ABSOLUTE BETRAYAL. I cannot imagine having that kind of power and leaving people to suffer.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 months ago

"61-year-old Student-Loan Borrower chooses between paying her debt, and paying for health insurance — and Biden's forgiveness plans won't help"! by Ayelet Sheffey:

fiat justitia!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23707) 7 months ago

Social Security can be garnished for student debt!


Many grandparents have either their own debt or they've taken student debt on for their loved ones. What a scam! College shouldn't cost so much that poor people who love their families have to resort to being death slaves in old age in order to boost up the next generation. It's truly disgusting.


[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 5 months ago

"Forgiving Debt: Ancient Analogies for the US"! by Eva von Dassow:

"Student loan debt is one of the most burdensome forms of debt in America today. According to oft-cited statistics, approximately 43 million Americans have student loan debt, cumulatively amounting to around $1.7 trillion.

"The exorbitant costs of higher education in the United States, combined with the fact that educational credentials serve as a ticket to decent employment, require many students to take out loans that follow them long past graduation – and that are almost impossible to discharge in bankruptcy.

"Hence, calls for cancellation of student loan debt by legislative or executive action keep intensifying, and President Joe Biden is expected to respond by ordering cancellation of some amount, notwithstanding arguments against any blanket debt amnesty.

"Yet this very policy is inscribed on the U.S. Liberty Bell. “Proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof!” it declares, quoting the biblical Book of Leviticus, 25:10. The Hebrew word translated “liberty,” “deror,” actually refers to debt amnesty."

respice, adspice, prospice - et veritas vos liberabit!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23707) 5 months ago

Biden must forgive at least $10,000 of student debt from each and every person that holds this unfair debt.

That was his promise on the campaign trail and the reason many millions voted for him.

If he doesn't keep this promise it puts our democracy at risk because it makes people feel that their vote is meaningless, that campaigns are meaningless, that politicians are liars and can't be trusted.

It is very important that he keeps this promise for many reasons, the most important of which is, of course, the unjust nature of student debt.


[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 5 months ago

Consider "The current student loan pause expires in less than two weeks, on August 31. The Joe Biden administration’s decision on whether or not to extend the pause could sway the results of the upcoming midterm elections in November.

"Debt activists - frustrated with Biden for waffling on the pause and for failing thus far to follow up on his campaign promise to cancel up to $10,000 of debt per student borrower, say that they’ll begin striking in September if he does not extend the pause.The strike will consist of 50 student debtors over the age of 50 to “highlight the destructive impact of student debt on older Americans,” the Debt Collective said in a press release." - FROM:

fiat lux et fiat justitia!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23707) 5 months ago

Historic Student Debt Jubilee from Biden would make David Graeber proud.

Let's face it. Could Biden have done more? Yes, of course. But, forgiving $10,000 for every single person with student debt plus $10,000 more for those from low income families who had Pell grants is, well, historic and courageous.

We live in a conservative country where the economic system works mainly for corporations, the wealthy and special interests.

Joe Biden must be given credit for forgiving this debt to students. He is going to receive push back from both the far left, for not doing enough, and from the far right for doing it at all. Kudos, Joe!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 5 months ago

"AOC Says Reversing Trump Tax Cuts Could Fund Cancellation of All Student Debt"! - by S. Zhang:

The progressive lawmaker reminded followers and debt activists that it's thanks to activists that the White House cancelled any debts at all!

per aspera ad astra!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23707) 5 months ago

Recent tweet from President Biden.


"I want to grow the economy from the bottom up and the middle out because when we do that, everyone does better.

It’s how America will compete and lead in the 21st century."

8:15 PM · Aug 29, 2022·The White House

Let's hold him to this tweet because trickle DOWN economics hasn't worked for the past 40 years because it was an absolute neoliberal LIE. Holding politicians accountable for the things they say during elections is how democracy works.

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 5 months ago

Due to the extremist partisan nature of U.S. politics nowadays, a decision which irritates both sides of politics is often a centrist middle-of-the-road one ( unless Joe has already gone senile which I doubt very much -- I'm more concerned about his dropping dead while in office because old age doesn't kill anyone anymore { the U.S. outlawed that, based upon good science: increasing age correlates with increasing rate of death in elderly years but being of old age doesn't cause death; beware of reifications confusing our ability to respond to crises due to their fogging up causality relations in our minds: "climate change" doesn't cause increased flooding but increased flooding does correlate with many other phenomena to form collectively what we call "climate change;" ne'er-do-well ideologues and profit-seeking evil people seek to confuse the critical issue that everything we humans do, affects the climate and therein lies the solution to the problem of detrimental phenomena affecting human living; it's been very well settled already that industrialized civilizations' using fossil fuels on a huge scale pivots the temperature of the [Arctics'-&-Antarctics'-temperatures-with-glacial-ice-around,-being-PEGGED-at-or-near-water's-triple-point-temperature-of-0.01C=32.018°F-at-1atm-ambient-pressure] Ice Age we are still in so every little contribution to changing the molal composition of the phases of water "Life is electric fire burning slowly in water" matters to human comfort and survival -- I literally mean these: having one's home flooded or burnt down, potable water be rationed or shut off, and not being able to afford the increasingly expensive groceries are very uncomfortable and that threatens human lives as we EXIT the Ice Age to enter Anthropocene which lacks the cryosphere: i.e. planet Water, aka Earth, will be gaining one MORE degree of freedom/"number of intensive variables, [or intensive physical properties,] to be defined [by a Supreme Fascist monkey playing around with a bloody-Red spanner/wrench]" on the global geological scale according to Gibbs' Phase Rule: F = C - P + 2; if P decrements by one due to ice disappearing, F increments by one; this increased freedom of temperature, pressure, density, etc. on a global scale will be both uncomfortable and deadly as having our Supreme Fascist monkey tweaking our thermostat wildly in a NEW degree of freedom is extremely disquieting; losing our planetary ice peg brings on geological-scale chaos } but stress certainly does; the U.S. Presidency is two very powerful and stressful jobs combined into one; it's a legacy from its first occupant: General (Commander-in-Chief) & President (Prime Minister/Premier/Chancellor/...) George Washington who already had years of military commanding experience and governed 13 rather than our now more-complicated 50 states.)

In Anthropocene, we don't necessarily run out of rainwater. In fact, we'll have even more rainwater on the average but it'll come in great spurts between its being nowhere in sight for a long time and it's raining cats and dogs. When it doesn't rain, the land parches. When it does rain, the land floods. Overall, there's actually more freshwater, but only if one can catch it in quantity quickly and store it for later usage.

The additional $10000 loan forgiveness for Pell Grant recipients who will get up to $20000 in total is a good reward for these aspiring students from the poorer socioeconomic backgrounds. It should relieve their financial pressure a bit more than without it. When combined with the initiative and drive already exhibited by their having reached for an education, the extra financial boost bodes well for their future economic development ( unless they are diehard financially illiterate and choose a terrible-rewarding educational endeavor, again? education has a potentially life-changing financial investment aspect to it as does a person's mindset can be life-changing; our clan's having been founded by a miffed adoptee of the old clan { judging by our [new] clan's history, the curse as forewarned by the old clan's elders against their uppity adoptee was apparently still with us even after centuries -- our patriarchal/male lineage is extremely slow-breeding and barely still holding on; this is why I can say things about WWII because my Dad was actually a young man at that time and he was also like me being the youngest son of his father; it's surely peculiar that our lineage passed through the youngest boys despite the inheritance rules had favored the eldest boys; mass deaths arising from many wars and diseases had peculiar effects on our lineage } and thus his making the rule that all adoptees are first-class integral members of the clan made possible the pivotal adoption of my Grandma which had incidentally led to so much financial success; rice-staple societies tend towards being socialist/community-dependent/industrious and wheat-staple societies tend towards being individualistic/independent/industrial; our old clan was rice-staple but our [new] clan's social structure had been changed, probably to become more open in order to accommodate foreign-to-China adoptees after the Opium Wars to undertake transcontinental high-risk high-gain 9-months-for-just-one-way-by-sailing trade, the big innovation being "steam navigation" appearing in the name of my Grandpa's [industrial] company; one could say that our old/new clans had undergone a conflict akin to that about the central issue of slavery in the American Civil War; as our new clan got coal to make steam and trade with northern Europe, it didn't need slavery but it needed fish-preservation technology -- one side of my ancestry was of the "sea people.") Most advances have come into being through leisure. Less debt allows more leisure and potentially more time to think, learn, and act.

Student loan forgiveness is much more focused and targeted than generating high inflation to alleviate all debtors' burden. Among these debtors are many business people and corporations gaming for financial gains via the sport called poly-ticks. In fact, the greatest gold mine in the world isn't located in West Australia, South Africa, or Indonesia. The fountainhead of profits' progress is fed from the wealth conversion to private gold in NW Washington, D.C. on the street called Lobbyists' Row.

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 7 months ago

If the person can keep herself healthy, she can forego death insurance and get several hundred dollars a month to pay towards her federal student loan.

College education does a great job of fostering class mixing and mingling but that only benefits the ones who know how to take advantage of "connections". That may be why many colleges built so many new sports facilities turning themselves into "country clubs" ( what do you really think happens at a "country club" and a golf course aside from intercepting a porn star on the twelveth hole ? "country clubs" nowadays are admittedly more sex-inclusive than "gentlemen's clubs" which had excluded women right "off-the-bat" there with their names; what do you think Poo-tin was doing taking a "fishing trip" with Russia's Minister of Defence, Shoigu ? Talking over the upcoming invasion of Ukraine ? On a golf course, businessman golfing buddies also talk about upcoming mergers and acquisitions and making 屌/deals ) costing a huge bundle of money to build the facilities and attend as a student.

You can probably figure out by now which college I had attended.

No one loaned me any money for my college education so I had zero student debt. It takes money (an income stream) to borrow money. While studying in college, I had an outgo stream, not an income stream. My parents weren't going to borrow money for me -- they got enough of their own problems.

I went to college before much of the financial industry had figured out how to get something good ( i.e. a debt repayment stream of money ) for nearly nothing except for the paperwork dealing with what's created "out of thin air." The paperwork has largely been "algorithmized" and automated by high-tech computing technologies of the National Association banks.

Does anyone still remember Chase Manhattan Bank's promotion of Bank Americard(R), an early credit card ? I do.

It seems like crocodile's tears to cry about a looming financial hurricane of one's own pioneered "innovative" industry's making. Credit default swap was another well-feared-by-now "innovation" that had nearly collapsed much of the "developed" world's economies in the Great Recession.

In the financial world, the arsonist who cries aloud, "Fire ! Fire !" while running away from the fire set is regarded as a sage and a hero for alerting others to flee the conflagration.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 10 months ago

"How the Student Debt Crisis Hurts Women"! by Vivek Kakar and 'Student Nation':

"With the payment moratorium for student loans expiring on May 1, millions of women

will face the possibility of financial ruin." Clearly, Slow Joe Biden is a Lying Scum Bag!

quad erat demonstrandum!

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 10 months ago

I recall that Biden administration has already planned to extend that more to August 31st so check up on it: here's a more detailed description of what's going on politically.

Biden hopes for getting a legislation but he has executive action power although using it can be challenged in court, as many things done by one President could come undone quickly by a new subsequent President as well as be ruled illegal or even unconstitutional. These whiplashes tarnish the U.S. reputation greatly ( especially overseas where people are less knowledgeable and understanding about our legal peculiarities -- there is an underlying ORDER OF PROCESS { as delineated in the U.S. Constitution which definitely wasn't created by our Founding Fathers with the objective of governing well a global superpower in mind; they were thinking more about hanging our several states together and not be re-infected by the Old World's 《at that time, primarily Europe's》 religious intolerance, domination, colonialism, and aristocracy; "keep our noses clean and out of stinky troubles" but that didn't work out at all well as evidenced by U.S. isolationist tendency after WWI but ending up with kapow kaboom WWII ! } despite the apparent madness of citizens suing each other, their state or other states, their federal government; a state suing its citizens, the federal government, and other states; the federal government suing a state, a state's citizen, and so on, and so on...) What one President did with executive action without legislation and later Presidents don't undo has the de facto force of a legislation by our Congress which may not have the POLITICAL gutsiness to overcome its hysteresis ( can more than five hundred multimillionaire politicians and lawyers with at least tens of thousands of lobbyists chirping for earmarks, dispensing advices, and seeking & currying favors nearby agree upon doing something in force ? well, miraculously, at least more than sometimes, but definitely not always.) A quasi-legislative executive action "effective law" is analogous to Russia's moral equivalent of "war and genocide."

Official Russia essentially said, "What's happening in Ukraine is neither war nor genocide." Official Russian law also de facto said, "Up to fifteen years in TB-infested labor re-education camp for anyone who speaks wrongly." What does the Poo-tin-started disaster in Ukraine look like ? A "special operation to create bipedal Homo blackpain ?" I say, "Liberated Stool-in Poo-tin." Where's Gorky Park if I follow the Moskva ? Is it down to the bottom of the Black Sea yet ? "Abu, don't touch anything !" Starfleet Academy probably didn't admit any monkeys so Abu didn't learn of the Prime Directive to obey it.

"Don't touch anything but the Lamp { of the Enlightenment started in Paris; U.S. Founding Fathers were Francophiles: 'Benjamin Franklin visited Europe repeatedly and contributed actively to the scientific and political debates there and brought the newest ideas back to Philadelphia; Thomas Jefferson closely followed European ideas and later incorporated some of the ideals of the Enlightenment into the Declaration of Independence; and James Madison incorporated these ideals into the United States Constitution during its framing in 1787.' } !" but Abu got from Bixi the Red Asiatic "license/licence to steal." Availing of [often foreign] ideas doesn't diminish them but often glorify and possibly enhance them. I've never heard of any Frenchman complaining of the U.S. partaking "their" ideas and incorporating them into the highest law of our [not French, so there's no conflict of interest there] land. "'Twas [French], but was not [French] alone."

The U.S. has "unratified treaties" with global consequences ( e.g. with the former Soviet Union { now represented by the Russian Federation } regarding the means for attaining the nuclear-war-ending of the World; does anyone care about whether a bullet fired by Cheatose(R) down Fifth Avenue will be flying at a hypersonic, sonic, or subsonic speed ? that shattered pumpkin will still be orange colored, won't it ? ) as well as "unlegislated executive actions" with the not necessarily durable power of legislation. Biden can extend "at the stroke of his pen" by an executive action but doing that shortly before the midterm elections thereby garnering more votes is opportunistic.

Let's find Meghan Mahron via the powerful "wisdom of the crowd." The field exists. The footprint of light particles is what's real, stays, and slowly evaporates like a soap bubble, with the air inside it losing the bubble's inner pressure by leaking out.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 8 months ago

AGAIN - "How the Student Debt Crisis Hurts Women"! by V.Kakar/'Student Nation'

"With the payment moratorium for student loans expiring on May 1, millions of women

will face the possibility of financial ruin." Clearly, Slow Joe Biden is a Lying Scum Bag!

So wtf have U got to say about Just That, U irrelevant, ranting, reactionary blowhard?!

quad erat demonstrandum?!

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 8 months ago

Joe Biden has been a near-adult-lifetime poly-tic-ian who knows how to tok and run the plantation with African slaves who didn't have the gumption to move to Liberia (this can be the African Century if Africa gets the intelligentsia and funding to transform itself). Tic-tok, tic-tok...

My Big Brother used to say that we Hong Kongers were largely apolitical after 1956. It wasn't really due to the lack of political passion. 1956's political fight was so shockingly deadly and bloody that most people would rather stick to making money than to be politicking as the male chicks to be macerated ( i.e. chopped/ground up ) in Mao Zedong's malevolent "eternal revolution" to grab power for himself and smoke '555'-brand British cigarettes, again.

My Mom called Mao a hypocrite because ( among other reasons: hairpin policy turns, not as quickly as Twitter-in-Chief cock-ad-oodle-doos Lord-of-Orange diplomacy did but tens of millions of little cyberdinosaurs didn't exist in the early 1950s although landlords and prostitutes did, and they were baited by 坦白 "open-heartedness" and caught for extermination; policy jerking returned in the late 1950s ) despite what he had denounced of the British and their Imperialism, banning their imports, he was smoking British '555' imported cigarettes when he came by, in Shanghai ( which was the homebase of the Communist Party because of Shanghai's having high concentration of industrial labor class; the French Concession persisted in relative peace due to France's rapid transition from proudly blocking Imperial Japanese Army's marauding with a courageous bluff to Vichy France, a collaborating government on the same Axis side as Japan; extraterritoriality, the shame of China, paid peace dividend in the French Concession -- it's how my Mom got through WWII unscathed working as a babysitter in a mansion over there; I suspect that her peculiar preparation of poached eggs in ¡ boiled carbonated ! Coca-Cola(R) snack was learnt from her babysitting job -- she only served that snack to our guests visiting us but I usually ate any extra left over so it was a treat,) to have his portrait-likeness drawn up for the founding ceremony of the People's Republic of China to take place on October 1st, 1949.

Shanghai residents risked their lives under the later-on brutal Imperial Japanese Army Occupation to harbor and feed the Nazi-persecuted European Jews and easier-to-hide kids whose only no-visa-required no-quota-imposed searoute-connected ( Nationalist China government led by Chiang Kai-Shek which then nominally controlled Shanghai, had much trading relationship with Weimar-Republic/Nazi Germany; trading with the West was why Shanghainese women could clean with soap, wear seamless Western-style ¿silk? underwear slip & brassieres, nylon stockings, imported cosmetics,and thus sported a westernized air《 my paternal Grandpa's great wealth partly came from this Westernization trading via the ports of Ningpo/Ningbo, Hong Kong, Canton/Guangzhou, Macao/Macau, etc. on the Silk Road》; "only Shanghainese women in Old China dared to wear such 旗袍: female-curves-exposing Manchu-origin-body-tightly-hugging-wrap dresses !" Shanghainese women had a goddess-like attitude and air ) destination refugee haven in the whole world of nations before WWII began in Europe in 1939, was China's humiliating internationalized-by-Unequal-Treaties city Shanghai, "the Paris of the Orient." There was indeed a very strong bond of sympathy & friendship between Chinese, Jews & later on Israelis, at least for the ones who still remember. During 1930s' Nazi persecution of the European Jews, for the Jews, it was "Behold ! Destination: Shanghai."

Consult the Book of All Wisdom for how student debts can be made to be waived. There are conservation laws. The fundamental quantum law is reversible but why is so much of the macroscopic world irreversible. What gives ?

In an ever-expanding expanse of information, the layer immediately underlying the outer bound holds an ever-more significant fraction of the total information. In the limit, only the information on the SURFACE matters. Missing the information in the outer layer, the inside becomes irreversible. It's analogous to -1/2 + 1.5 = 0.9999... Knowing -1/2 is insufficient to reconstruct 1 = 3 x 1/3 = 3 x 0.3333.. = 0.9999.. 《 cf. ε-δ definition of limits 》for the reversibility of all processes happening on the inside. Of course, if coherence of fields can be maintained to macroscopic scale as we've seen in magnets, helium-4 superfluid, and superconductors (i.e. harboring a fraction of electrically charged particles from a species of superfluid obeying Bose-Einstein statistics which doesn't limit the number of bosons in ground-energy state 《 as mass is but an energy of interaction with the environment, massive electrically positive-charged particles strongly interacting with their environment, the spatially-diffused-for-thermal-stability-of-its-statistics Mass[p-type]holes, can bear at room temperatures a superconducting current》,) processes can become reversible.

Seashells are beautiful because they plot the exponential-growth curves of Mathematics which also underlie student debts' burden. On the edge of a shell as it grows, the small "differential" pieces of the growth front all grow at the same rate, to a high precision, in a specific direction. Values of the growth rates in distinct ("linearly independent") directions determine the spiral's winding tightness & form. A way to relieve compound-interest debts is to bend the curve by arbitrage refinancing. Who can help ? Big old snails with pinched/stunted growth fronts. Financial wealth takes time to grow so if an old one has been in a stable well-tended environment, the more wealth that one has accumulated. How do you gain the favor of the big old snails ? They have problems and young people can help. My Mom said that she and my Dad were "jellyfish" with no "sight" due to their illiteracy so we children needed to be shrimp lingering and helping with their "seeing." I don't believe in shrimp turning into jellyfish to achieve "equality of jellyfish." Shrimp are responsible for jellyfish but whereto they flutter is their freedom.

The problem of onerous student debts isn't directly caused by whether one has something dangling between one's legs or not so calling it a women's problem is intentionally inflammatory. Here's a new story: Poor people worldwide grow increasing hatred for Russia's destruction of their "breadbasket." Does that help with creating a just peace ?

Great inflation is eating away student debts substantially so thank the U.S., Red China, and Russia. Joe Biden is great, reducing student debts' difficulty of being paid off via the discounts through inflation which is still very far below the level of the late 1970s and early 1980s, though. Remember this: inflation helps debtors. It is GENERAL debt relief. It's how rich people get wealthier on a large scale and it helps to maintain an aristocracy. People with poor parents tend not to get loans so they can't afford higher education. By making standardized testing ( originally devised for Harvard to screen out applicants en masse; how many higher education organizations need to come up with an excuse to deny admission as Harvard does ? I remember that it was originally the Scholastic Aptitude Test which would predict the admitted freshman's college academic scores; well, that prediction didn't work -- in fact, those scores correlated well with the freshman candidate's parents' income ! Was that a surprise that it was a great parental-income postdiction tool ? No ! Why ? Test prep tutoring takes money, connections, and planning -- did I forego it for my own children ? Absolutely not ! I don't believe in turning shrimp into jellyfish for the sake of the equality of jellyfish; I had no time to change the system before they had to go through it; making or breaking their chances for success was up to them but I wanted them to be well-equipped by doing what I could ) mandatory for a consideration of being admitted, poor people whose parents can't afford [expensive] test-preparation tutoring are partly screened out via test scores. That helps to keep higher education largely a higher socioeconomic class' privilege. Once the better paying jobs require higher education credentials, a durable heritable aristocracy will spring into existence. Those who can contract debts and be reasonably good at making choices usually come out far more financially successful than those who can't. Borrowed money is paid back with depreciated-with-inflation money. The challenge is to avoid blowing-up by having leveraged too much for taking nonchalantly the inevitable fluctuations.

The always-correct prediction for the financial world is: things will change. That's why we say, "Take a [financial] position." It's like two years ago: trillions of U.S. dollars were pouring down from the sky to ward off CoViD-19 recession. Those who took a bucket and stepped outside to position themselves got wealthy. Where are those trillions now ? "Don't ask. Don't tell." God knows as He always does, supporting the "Gay in the military" who salud over a blue dress in an Ar-Kan-sas compromise. It's good that there's no abortion worry over this bipartisanship, regardless of whether RNA or DNA was imprinted.

Be it PPP or TARP, "you've got to go when you've got to go," said the lawyer, splitting into the outhouse. The U.S. Supreme Court's power arose from the American people's belief in the rule of law. Once Americans believe that the U.S. Supreme Court has been corrupted, its power ceases, but the U.S. had lived through that before in a stalemate between the other two more powerful branches of U.S. Government. U.S. needs to loop around the smoke circle. MIT's Bldg. 20 was to be torn down but innovations exploded. Why ?

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 months ago

AGAIN - "How the Student Debt Crisis Hurts Women"! by V.Kakar/'Student Nation':

"With the payment moratorium for student loans expiring on May 1, millions of women

will face the possibility of financial ruin." Clearly, Slow Joe Biden is a Lying Scum Bag!

So wTf have U got to say about just^that, U irrelevant, ranting, reactionary blowhard?!

quad erat demonstrandum?!

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Thank you. I needed that

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Better than 99% of America ( better than 99% of the world ) needs that. {:-])

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

It's comin.

Hard work, perseverance.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Yep - the damn... sorry.... dam is about to burst.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Absolving debt is a great place to start

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Yes - that would remove a horrendous amount of pressure off of the damn . . . shit - scuse - off of the dam. And Yes it would only be a single starting point - more urgent - to the survival of life - would be to transition off of fossil fuel and end other toxic practices ASAP.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Actions that would help all, n many ways.


And 'No more War!'

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

I have come to the conclusion that the loan based economy is not a reasonable system

[-] 3 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

In fact unfair, and destructive.

I kinda like a public sys that might provide low interest small loans for lower income should be tried.

[-] 1 points by wickerman (62) 8 years ago

When it became necessary to have a college degree in order to get a decent job and to earn a living wage, it became the responsibility of the public education system to provide that degree.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

Civilization benefits from an educated population.

It's an investment, it's a no brainer. You gotta be uneducated to be against free college for all.

See Tennessee has the right idea:


Who could object?

[-] 2 points by wickerman (62) 8 years ago

Was it Franklin or Jefferson who thought even then that college should be free? I guess that if you looked back to the 40's or 50's it could be argued that a degree wasn't necessary to be a productive part of society. Then a high-school diploma would get you pretty far. That is not the case today, and our system of education needs to adjust to the changing conditions.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 8 years ago

It was the 80's that public colleges started charging and/or increasing tuition.

In any event only ignorant people would object to the truism : "if you think education is expensive, try ignorance".