Forum Post: This will probably make people mad..........
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 2, 2011, 4:36 p.m. EST by OWSisawaste
(133)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The OWS movement, what are they trying to do? "take money out of politics?" well so far i have heard like 5 people talk about this, the rest talk about how they want to "get rid of private land" or "raise minimum wage to 18.50" or my favorite "lower the age of majority to 16".....you guys better get your act together quick and use some freakin common sense...
tell me what you think, i like to discuss and i am not against ALL of your ideas but most of them, try to convince me, plead your case. show that YOU ARE right.
This forum is not about convincing you to agree with a particular idea, it is a place for us to listen to each others ideas the way democracy was supposed to work, everyones voice gets heard, so why don't you participate and offer your voice to the group, I am sure you have ideas you are passionate about or you would not have come to the site. I bet we have more in common than you think, we are taught by politicians to constantly argue divisive issues. I would love to hear what you would like to see changed with this country and how you think we could accomplish that. Yes when you have an open democracy you get all kinds of ideas this is not bad, this is good, democracy is messy, eventually the good ideas get brought up to the top of discussions. We are all willing to listen to you. this is about listening. not preaching. So please do tell, what are you frustrated with in our country.
hahahaahaah i read half of your reply and could bear it anymore.....you and me are not alike at all....i am a red blooded American that believes in a Teddy Roosevelt thought it would be like.....and AMerica of tough
"get rid of private land" or "raise minimum wage to 18.50" or my favorite "lower the age of majority to 16"...
Where are you finding these? Better yet why are you reading them?
Might be worth a skim to see if there is sarcasm occurring but darn!
I have 'spoken' with many people posting here and for the most part they are reasonable people seeking reasonable solutions to real problems.
I think it isn't so much the issue someone posted such but the issue that anyone would consider it seriously enough to comment.
well first off i got all of the information from a place called "the OWS list of demands" ON THIS SITE! i got all that ridiculousness of of the website that is the HQ of your movement
Read this with an open mind. http://occupydc.org/community/declaration/
It's a list. Doesn't mean that it's all inclusive or even half of what is expected. It's a starting point. I'd imagine they are going on the premise that the more they ask for the more things can be 'tossed aside' and the more likely they will be to get the actual items they are seeking redress for will be responded to.
I think you're being just a bit too literal.
to literal? im reading what you people want how is reading then quoting it to literal.......oh thats right sorry.....the list of demands was about ponies and unicorns.................idiot.
Yep, pretty literal.
Thats because this is anarchy. There are a bunch of anarchists running this thing with the help of their Serbian Revolution fighter friends. To say or believe that this movement has no leaders is either to be ignorant or to lie. This whole movement is built on deceit. Leaderless, spontaneous uprising? Lies. It was planned by anarchists and Serbian revolutionaries in order to take advantage of peoples discontent in order to further their own agenda. Direct Democracy and/or the total elimination of government.
This movement needs to lose the anarchy and the direct democracy absurdity, get some real leadership and an effective organizational structure. That is the only way that the legitimate demand of "taking money out of politics" is going to move forward.
The anarchists are holding this movement back from being a huge political force. It is absurd and ridiculous nonsense.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11293836/1/meet-the-man-behind-occupy-wall-street.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCrC6GL7430&feature=youtu.be
I've heard FAR more talk about getting the money out of politics on this forum than about getting rid of private land." In fact, I've heard very little of the latter, and I read almost every forum topic that gets posted.
--Knave Dave http://thegreatrecession.info/blog/
The main problem fueling OWS is the notion that big business seems to have overpowered the government itself. When I say that, I am referring to the seemingly legal immunity corporations have in this country. Our system is corrupt more than ever, and the government is largely to blame. This type of broad and large-scale problem creates much more smaller problems, affecting much more people. This is why you might hear 1,000,000 different reasons as to why people support OWS or what THEY want out of it.
I must be one of those five. until you get public funded campaigns, the people will continue to lose, and only those with the fattest wallets get heard.
"This forum is not about convincing you to agree with a particular idea, it is a place for us to listen to each others ideas" WarmItUP Can't put it any better!!!!!
Yeah I used to support this whole thing, but it's clearly going nowhere.
wouldn't raising the minimum wage help take money out of politics?
yeah and drain any income for the US because no one would buy american products because they would be so fucking expensive
then leave the minimum wage alone and give us universal health care. any person who knows anything about insurance knows that when more people participate, better value is added.
are you fucking me? universal healthcare? have you seen Europes healthcare???? you have to wait 6 months to get a cast for a broken arm....there is a reason people come to AMERICA for first aid.....ITS BECAUSE WE HAVE GOOD FIRST AID SERVICES
all I know is that i grew up as a working class slob and our form, what ever you want to call it, is sapping their energies and hope. you want productive people, don't discard them once they break a leg and cant function properly in the factory. or they get carpal tunnel syndrome and can no longer produce in corporations. you want disposable citizens, well don't be surprised when they want to dispose of you.
i dont want to just throw people to the wayside but i also want a workforce f non lazy people that are willing to work some long hours or maybe stay overtime a bit to get the job done....thing dont come easy so then people have to work for them..............
that sound like you believe in reciprocity. put your self in my predicament and ask if I should be loyal to a company that uses their pull to silence my objections. I too believe in reciprocity.
what is your predicament? ill try to put myself in it........
http://www.citicommons.com/
now im mad. grrrrr. >:(
Thank you my sentiment exactly: use some freaking common sense. Do the whole world a hugh favor get away from the la la land utopian society rhetoric and get with the real world and do your self learn how the real world works and why 18:50 minimum wage would send every American job overseas to countries without a minimum wage. And the age of majority should not be 16, you will have your whole life to act as an adult why the hell would you rush something like that a person who is still in the process of forming their world view. (I know many adults that would love to turn back time again to be carefree high-schoolers with no mortgage, no family, and no major commitments, and I second that sentiment.)
AMEN good comment
the WHY?...just watch the documentary "Inside Job" that won best documentary in 2011...it is free right now on-Iine, narrated by Matt Damon ...check it out...http://www.theotherschoolofeconomics.org/?p=2499
and pIease don't think that the kids standing their ground and occupying spaces around the country need to be fIuent or articuIate in their arguments for you to be convinced. it's your job to research reasons for outrage. but I'II teII you mine. ethics have Ieft the buiIding. waIIstreet is our government and its never been so apparent. what we aII know to be common sense in just about every situation onIy gets accompIished or is even addressed if it Iines the pockets of the seriousIy rich. And I think they shouId be reined in by the same ruIes and reguIations we have had in pIace from 1930-the 1980's. It's not sociaIism nor is it rocket science. But it is ethicaI. I beg you to watch the aforementioned documentary aII the way through and ask yourseIf "how eIse do we change things? voting does IittIe if the government is owned. we can write Ietters aII we want. we can go on IittIe strikes aII over the country. but the huge corporate machine can absorb those teeny-tiny bIows. AII we can do is show up in the pubIic square and scream our heads off every singIe day untiI more and more peopIe wake up and stop saying WHY and start saying "YES of course this is nonsense and I am paying attention now!" So whether we are taIking about geneticaIIy modified food or tuition costs, or banking reguIations etc etc...what we are reaIIy taIking about is corruption. Ethics have abandoned our democracy. Our eIected officiaIs aren't even in charge anymore. Whatever it is that YOU find worth protesting in history (civiI rights, womens rights, chiId Iabor issues etc)...they were abIe to be addressed because of peopIe, young and oId, educated and un....peopIe seriousIy taking on the impossibIe. And their cause was just even if they didn't articuIate their argument as individuaIs. For more info about where the movement is going...check out OCCUPYWRITERS http://occupywriters.com/ or check out this Iist of 10 ideas of where to go next...http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/where-does-occupy-wall-street-go-here
The U.N. has been sitting back and watching things unfold as well. Currently, a U.N. envoy is drafting a letter to our government regarding criticism of the U.S. government and support of the Occupy movement. Perhaps you may wish to look a little deeper into the meaning behind the movement. Or, perhaps you believe that you have information that the U.N. has over looked?
Money out of politics is the first thing, at least in my opinion. The reason is simple, you can not have a democracy for the people, when only corporate persons have influence. First we need to retake the government, then we need to tell that government what to do.
There are ideas about federal finding, campaign spending limits, limitations on corporate/personal/private donations. In Canada parties get funding based on how many votes they get. Like 2$ per vote in the general election, and there are also spending limits.
So for example, if you vote for the Green party, maybe no one gets elected; but at least they get your $2 to spend next election.
Guess who got fined for violating election spending rules? Yep, the tough on crime conservative party lol.
Anyway, I think special interest money out of politics, then you can let the democratic process work itself out. Not everyone in OWS shares the same ideas, but that is ok, when we have real democracy the good ideas will hopefully triumph over the bad ideas.
So to show how much you want money out of politics, OWS is going to shut down the west coast ports in support of a union in Washington, despite the fact that in my state, unions buy more politicians than just about anyone else. Corporate money is bad, but union money is good. At least be honest - OWS isn't against money in politics, it's against money in politics ON THE OTHER SIDE!
That's not true at all. I'm a big supporter of Unions, who have defiantly been the republican whipping boy for the last 30 years...
But when I say money out, I mean it. All special interest money, out.
How about Mr. Union Buster himself Scott Walker? Getting $500,000 from the Koch brothers... just for starters.
Good to hear that you are balanced, alexrai. I wish the movement was, too. When they start making just as big a deal about union money in politics as they do about corporate money, they will win back some credibility. Until then, they just look hypocritical, cozying up to unions who do the very thing they claim to oppose. I'm not holding my breath that it will change.
None of us are right! ows is a movement for the worlds people. a freedom movement - we work with people - they gain their freedom then they decide how they want their world to be- THEY DECIDE- no one decides for them.
well good luck moving that forward.....a leaderless movement is a doomed movement....it is going to fail
doomed? but we've aIready accompIished so much. we've changed the conversation. the worId is paying attention. that is the hardest step in any movement...being taken seriousy enough that your concerns and issues are considered. think about this. it's been 3 1/2 months since the first tent went up and the worId is Iistening.
hahahaha you have been noticed? anyone but the people in the movement are laughing at you. the world is starting to cave to you pathetic and retarded demands and it is sad.....we need someone with a goddamn backbone to stop your piece of crap ideas...
oh my. you have some manners to work on.
You are too used to stratification in society and it seems that you seek a hierarchy. Hierarchy isn't necessary it only serves to divide people. We are all equals and don't need to be "lead."
I think doing something about preventing Congress from doing insider trading is a BIG way to get money out of politics. That's one of the most egregious things going on in the country right now. Do you not agree?
well i would like to see of gov change and getting money out may or ay not work...but they fact that you people want to change our nation into a socialist and Communist country is horrible
A forum like this breeds ideas. Some good and other not so much. Hopefully the movement itself will generate political action that goes from just demonstrating to voting for people that will make some of the better ideas happen. Movements for civil rights, the anti-war movement, the environment all produced some good political action. OWS might also, if not it will be looked at as just a minor tantrum.
well if OWS wants to make any progress they have to get organized....granted their ideas are bad to begin with is another story but right now they are just a bunch of rabble........
The anti-corruption message is good, careful financial regulation, more restrictions on money in politics. You are right though the image of OWS is one of spoiled kids that want to change a system by having someone just do it for them. One of the original messages coming out of it about student loan forgiveness and the media images helped make that image.
An organized group with a clear message can make good changes happen. I'm not sure it's possible or OWS, it's just too soon to tell if they will take the step of adding political action to the movement. That is after all a much more difficult job then demonstrating.
yeah......if OWS got a real leader or got a real idea of what to do then they would get somewhere.....i hope they dont....
Listen, man. It's not that those are real demands. We're all just trying to theorize about the world and how it could work better. The economy, after all, is a theory. It turns out that the theory has been right so far, that greed and self interest propels an economy the best. It also turns out that people like to own things, even larger amounts of things than are practical, like land and that, unfortunately, the idea of rent is probably the one thing that propels inequality more than anything. Look, it's fine to own your own house and junk, but what becomes too much? I'm not saying that I have an answer, but for now, I guess we'll just have to stick with greed and stuff, cause that's how our economy works and up till now, it's worked pretty well, I suppose.
who the hell cares if i have excess? that is great thing about USA....we can have excess! just because you dont want to have excess then that doesnt mean i cant.....besides if its all theories then when the hell are you people going to make an actual plan or "list of demands"?
I know, having excess is perfectly legal, if you're able. So do it. As for your last sentence, it didn't make any sense. We're just theorizing. It's not really up to us to make demands, just to point out issues and areas for improvement. I would not even dare to make real demands unless I was an economist like Paul Krugman with a PhD and real-life experience and actually appointed by the president to work with the nation and banks to change things for real. I actually think the president should do that. God knows that people take the economists much more seriously than career politicians anyway. They'll promise the sky if it can get them more votes. So, again, my point is that it's actually pointless to make demands. Raise the issues and leave it up to people who actually have a real education. I doubt it would happen though.
So then what the hell are you trying to do? if all you do is point out shit and wait for the people you dont like to fix it how is that helping your cause? That makes no freaking sense.....
I am 16 years old and A. I don't want or need that kind of responsibility and B. 16 year olds are idiots
thank you......this OWS movement is not doing anything that is actually helping the country....all they are doing is hurting the country.
Talk helps, more so if it's followed up with constructive action.
what are you talking about?
Sorry, I was too brief. All they are doing now amounts to talk, yelling at people and things they don't like. It's a start but certainly in itself not very valuable except as a starting point.
it is not even a real good starting point.....a mob is not good way to "form a new America" or whatever.....it sad....how long has this been going on? like 2 months at least? and they still are just a huge mob holding sign crying for the gov to give them money or to change their ways
I agree, if gives them the look of children, the movement has to mature or it will just fade away.
agreed....and personally i hope they fade away....what are they helping anyway? they want more money.....great for the WE ALL WANT MORE MONEY.....but not everyone deserves more money...people have to work for what they have.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg
I still love this post. I wish I had the answers but all I can think about is those guys in "Inside Job" who knew what they were doing and kept going. Why aren't we prosecuting them? In that respect I feel Obama and Holder are a huge let down.
I think it should be against the law to stand on escalators.
What's the proposed alternative? Please keep in mind that a goodly portion of escalator riders have 'dangley bits'.
THIS:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-06/cuomo-joins-brown-in-seizing-on-occupy-movement-s-tax-the-rich-sentiment.html
California Governor Jerry Brown and New York’s Andrew Cuomo are seizing on a core sentiment of the Occupy Wall Street movement in seeking higher taxes on the wealthy to offset cuts in education and government programs.
The governors of the first- and third-biggest states by population took aim at the affluent in proposals yesterday. Brown said he’d ask voters to raise income taxes on individuals making more than $250,000 a year and boost the sales levy. Cuomo said he wants an income-tax overhaul that would place a higher burden on top earners.
“The occupiers’ message is much more popular than the movement itself,’’ said Dan Schnur, director of the Unruh Institute of Politics at the University of Southern California, in Los Angeles. “For Brown or Cuomo to take the least-strident aspects of the occupiers’ agenda -- separated from the occupiers themselves -- presents them with a political opportunity that might not have been there a year or two ago.”
U.S. states slashed payrolls to close $91 billion in cumulative gaps in fiscal 2012 budgets, after tax revenue was slammed by the longest recession since the Great Depression, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. California, the most populous, may face a $13 billion deficit, while New York, the third-largest, projects a $3.5 billion gap.
Demonstrations that started as Occupy Wall Street in New York on Sept. 17 have spread to cities on four continents. Protesters refer to themselves as “the 99 percent,” a reference to economist Joseph Stiglitz’s study showing the richest 1 percent of Americans control 40 percent of the wealth.
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ok.......thats cool.....thanks i guess?
No problem man. I reckon that's what they do. All I ever see on the TV is people walking around and people getting hooked up by the police. I know the baloney comes next. Maybe some people ought to just give them some goddam baloney so they can go home.
nooooooooooooooooooooooo becasue then we would be giving into their hippie dumb ideals...
Well, I guess you are right. They should do something for their baloney. Where I live they hook those people up on the chain gang and they clean the sides of the road. Maybe they ought to do that.
hahaha amen man.....like the way you think....
Bullshit and the USA will veto the report in a nano-second just like they do anything that Israel doesn't like.
The UN is on USA soil, and land was donated by Rockefeller-OIL, and like NATO, the USA is the master of all.
So what if some technician issues a report that the USA do bad, going spank Oreo's monkey? Everybody on earth already knows that the USA is hypocrisy, only US fools don't know, but guess what UN meetings aren't on TV competing with reality TV.
Waiting for the UN to save you is like waiting for BUSH/CHENEY to bring you donuts and warm milk.
What does the Un have to do with anything? the Un is a waste of time anyway....
If the minimum wage was raised to $55 per hour we'd all be rich in no time!
Raise the minimum wage to $55 and you would all be out of work in no time, because what employer is going to hire people if he has to pay them that much? Geez, does the phrase "unintended consequences" mean nothing to you people?
Labor subsidies! See below!
well that idea is retarded to begin with.....if that were the case the business would have to up the price of ALL of their products and then no one would have enough money to buy anything because a hamburger would cost 60 bucks.........dont be dumb
No! We'll just get the government to subsidize hamburgers! This will work!
i hope to gods that you are joking because you are absolutely fucking retarded
Learn the language and come back then.
what do you mean by that? what language? hippie language?
No, English. This is America, after all. When you can write a sentence I'll debate you. Looks like I have a few years...
well if you are not willing to debate because of improper English then that is sad.....you dont even have enough dedication to debate........
If you make any points I'll comment on them, your blanket insults are as childish as your education level. Maybe someone else here gives a fuck what you think, but I don't take stuff like this seriously. You are just a naysayer, and a boring and shitty one at that. Take your own advice and get a message and do something productive, instead of making yourself feel good by shitting on what others do. THATS pathetic.
I am attempting to protect my country from people that want to turn it into a communist and socialist gov. I am not going to start an ANTI-OWS movement but i will try my best to combat you people....your ideas are ridiculous and it is horrible that you want to change america the way you do....some ideas you have are fine "getting money out of politics" great..... pretty much everything else is crap.....
Sure, common-sense regs for Wall Street and corporations (like we HAD until 1996), taking away supposedly temporary tax breaks for the rich, etc etc = "crap." Great argument. Oh and the socialist boogie man is tired, get new material. I run a small business. A fairer tax code and holding companies and banks responsible for what they actually do isn't socialism, it is common sense.
Leaving these same entities to repeat what lead to 2008 is stupid and reckless. Or in terms you'd understand, crap.
@ OW : You seem like an extremely confused individual, so ; this is your arse, (...x...) and this is your elbow, |_ . Further your 'ass' is a donkey ! Geddit ? All clear now ? Now off you go & make like a rabbit !
well that makes no fucking sense so yeah...........
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