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Forum Post: This Land Is Your Land

Posted 3 years ago on June 29, 2014, 5:06 p.m. EST by Ihippy (49)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1my1jn6QHzE


Q1 GDP was down, Q2 already revised down. If they had to revise the second quarter down, in the busiest time of the year, what do you think Q3 & 4 are going to look like? We have been in a fake recovery, fueled by Quantitative Easing and Wall Street for the last several years. Many on this forum had done much to argue this, to discredit those who spoke it, but it's here. We told you it was coming. I don't care if you work for the government, are a law enforcement officer, a liberal, a conservative. This is going to impact everyone. I don't want you to protest under the Occupy banner, not the Tea Party banner. I just want you to protest.

45 Comments

45 Comments


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[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

Wouldn't it be best for the most people to raise interest rates? I know that would make it harder for people to get mortgages &c.,and that it would cause a rise in inflation-but it would not cause a rapid spike in inflation that might get out of control,I think.As far as credit,it seems to me that people's loan applications and mortgage applications are being turned down,so what difference would it make? The only explanation is that encouraging and enabling speculative bubbles is the FED policy.This all really sucks because people are just dying in the bad economy out here and. Corporate Governmental Complex will not do anything to help because the economy that is killing us is so good for the 1% If you asked "How many dead Americans and how many destroyed families before you have gained enough profit?" the answer would be "As long as we gain profits,the policy continues!"So that is a gloomy outlook,IMHO.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 3 years ago

it would help but i don't think there are any purely economic solutions to the current economic doldrums things are so inter-related and this is why it hasn't been fixed because 99.99% of people can not identify the solutions they can't even identify the problem only symptoms so they think it is one thing over here and a totally unrelated thing here and so on and so forth. the reality today is this is simply the new economy. we can either adapt or die. or.... or we can create something more efficient to replace the current cultural and societal paradigm, so that when the inevitable collapse whether it is political, economic, cultural, or environmental people will have a practical working alternative to turn to already there and just waiting for them to start participating.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

The first step is community organisation.Only then can people engage in consultation in order to form a consensus.It seems to me that #OWS could and should be able to train at least 20 community organizers every year.I don't know of any such effort within #OWS.Another thing that would help is a website where people who want to form co-ops or find jobs could post what help they need or what they can contribute to a company or co-op.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 3 years ago

with millions and millions of homes and office space sitting vacant how long until the housing and retail market collapes for real this time? i could see properties losing 50% of their current value. fundamental supply and demand.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

Properties have to be maintained.Rarely do you see a vacant property whose absentee owner is maintaining it.The cost of rehab for a property that has been sitting vacant for years is so high,nothing can be done with it until somebody comes along who is willing to pay for demo.Alot of these properties also have all kinds of crazy liens and old tax and water bills attached to them,too.So the buildings sit and delaminate season by season.There are many empty strip malls around here that will never be used again,or demolished.They are a terrible sight.The people who made their money off them are long gone,leaving behind king-sized piles of shit for us to contemplate.The Bastards.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 3 years ago

they could repurpose the buildings for community centers etc.

[-] 3 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 3 years ago

Good idea. Might even lure in some new residents. By the way, I sure would like to know why anyone would mark your two comments down to zero. I have a suspicion but I'll wait and see if the pattern continues before I say anything more.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 3 years ago

i get hated on in here cause i tell it how it is. i am not some partisan hack or libertarian tool. i care about the people. i could give two shits about money or power or success as determined by the system. most in here want to keep everything the way it is now just with more of what they want. fuck that this whole shitstem has to go.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

If you can organize a sufficiently large group it is possible sometimes to take over abandoned buildings.Few people are willing to do this unless they are desperate.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 3 years ago

there are no squatters rights in tn. i am not sure that is possible in memphis, tn. got a feeling if it was some of these inner city organizations trying desperately to make memphis better would have done it by now.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33169) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

There is plenty of demand - just few who can satisfy the monetary requirements of the fiction that is current market value. Those who qualify are becoming fewer with each passing day.

[-] 4 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 3 years ago

there are 18.5 million vacant homes and 3.5 homeless people. we have a surplus.

[-] 2 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 3 years ago

You can thank real-estate developers in large part for that one. For the past 30 years or so, they have been largely responsible for transferring jobs, wealth, and revenue from already developed areas to more rural areas which have been developed needlessly. Also many corporations which have closed down operations in already developed areas in order to relocate for tax advantages offered in those newly developed areas I just referred to. Finally, many local politicians in the areas I just referred to who lured those corporations to begin with by offering those ridiculous tax advantages that more developed areas with more complex infrastructures weren't in a position to offer. So the pigs relocate leaving a wake of destruction behind in those 'loser' communities.

Millions of those homes you referred to are falling apart in those 'loser' communities as we type. The communities are being neglected because of lost jobs, residents, and revenue. Meanwhile, all of the above still takes place. The real-estate developers continue to build more homes, shopping centers, industrial parks, ect in the more recently developed communities. They do so with no regard for anything but profit.

Gxx dxxx self-centered wealth relocating and concentrating bxxxxxxx.

It makes my blood boil for three reasons. #1. It's been happening for over 30 years. #2. Nobody is talking about it. #3. The pigs responsible for all of the above have the nerve to run their mouths about how tax breaks create jobs.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 3 years ago

the buildings or the land could be repurposed to benefit communities and people.

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 3 years ago

Good idea. Might even lure in some new residents.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 3 years ago

new residents and businesses could move into these areas. they need to bring in people with expertise in new urbanism development and the repurposing of existing structure and infrastructure. obvsiously these places don't have much money to invest in building new so you need to upgrade the old in the best most cost effective manner possible until there is a revenue base to draw from to make costly improvements or new construction.

i am hopeful that some of these places have people who think in the same manner i do and see all the connections between seemingly completely seperate things.

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 3 years ago

Lets hope so. You should visit local forums online in some of those areas and try to convince a few people to get involved.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 3 years ago

i am trying to get more involved since class is out for summer. i am in the 6th week of recovery from a major infection that required a 5 day hospital stay and still dealing with pain/swelling but i am now able to really start doing things again so i am starting to slowly get involved in things again. memphis where i live has many vacant lots etc..

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 3 years ago

Good luck. By the way, was it staph or something else?

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 3 years ago

they never did find out when they swabbed my mouth, i had an impacted abcessed wisdom tooth i couldn't afford to treat since i don't have insurance. he cut it out and cleaned me out and put me on antibiotics but it came back even worse and i had to have an additional procedure that was extremely painful and 5 days of iv antibiotics thus the hospital stay i have no way to pay for. thank you.

[-] 2 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 3 years ago

Ok. I was going to try to help but I have virtually no clue what causes abscessed teeth. I do know that many pharmaceuticals are known to weaken your immune system. One reason of many that we need to get our use of pharmaceuticals way down. Good luck.

[-] 3 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 3 years ago

no you don't understand i was in real bad shape i did everything to avoid a hospital stay. but anyways i am healing now and ready to live life. getting sick made me realize there is a lot i want to do in life i am not ready to spin off my mortal coil yet.

[-] 3 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 3 years ago

2400 just for the initial operation to remove the teeth. i owe 8k to the hospital and the anesthsia company.

[-] 3 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 3 years ago

One more thing. Carefully consider that bill line by line. If it's not itemized, then get a new bill. Look for any mistakes or anything that seems excessive. Then complain. Years ago, I was injured on the job. The hospital charged me $125 for a simple apparatus that should have cost under $5. They also screwed up a simple procedure. I had to fix it myself. I called them and told them that I would not submit the bill to my employer until they removed the $125 charge for a simple apparatus PLUS the charge for the simple procedure. I also demanded 1/2 off the admission fee. They refused. A few weeks later, they called me for payment and I told them a second time that I would not submit the bill to my employer until they removed those two charges and adjusted the other.

They agreed and sent me a new bill. I gave the adjusted bill to my employer and she submitted it to her insurance company. It was only about 40% of it's original total.

[-] 3 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 3 years ago

I didn't mark your two comments down. I marked them back up. I understand. I wasn't doubting you. Our health care industry does save lives. Yours may be one of them but I believe that it destroys many more lives because it's been intervening far more often than necessary. In fact, I would bet my own life on it.

https://occupywallst.org/forum/my-step-dad-was-misdiagnosed-with-advanced-alzheim/

https://occupywallst.org/forum/i-know-of-three-women-who-died-unexpectedly-under-/

Don't pay the 8k. Seriously. Don't pay it. Make a deal with them in which you make payments which total just a fraction of what they say you owe. If they refuse, then just sit back and wait for them to make you an offer to settle. If they don't within a year or two, then do nothing. They WILL offer to settle for MUCH less before taking you to court.

I'm glad you're ok but a paramedic doesn't charge you $10,400 to administer CPR (a definite life saver) and wisdom tooth surgery shouldn't cost that much either.

Seriously, don't pay the 8k. That industry already represents 17% of our GDP. That is TOO MUCH.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 3 years ago

my rear lower wisdom tooth never came in all the way and it became infected. without modern antibiotics i would have probably died. no kidding i was in very, very bad condition. all cause i didn't have insurance and it cost 2400 to get all 4 wisdom teeth done. i was always rent broke who has that kind of money when they are working in the restaurant business?

[-] 2 points by StillModestCapitalist (343) 3 years ago

We may never agree on what may have happened without those antibiotics. I believe they have their place but I also believe that place is the exception to the rule. Our immune systems can work wonders in almost every case if they are not underdeveloped because of hyper-clean living conditions or weakened because of pharmaceuticals.

It may be that you desperately needed intervention. If so, I'm glad you got it but $2400? Again, OBSCENE CHARGES.

By the way, I also believe that parents on pharmaceuticals are likely to produce children with birth defects or weakened immune systems.

I really hate that industry. It has it's place but not as a first resort for every little, ache, pain, sniffle, worry, jitter, infection, ect.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33169) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

Always thought that it was a pretty sad state of affairs that Dental was not considered essential Health care and so relegated to separate insurance coverage.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33169) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

All I am saying - is - that there are millions who would love to have a single family home - but can't afford it - many of those same individuals are also experiencing getting priced out of their rental homes ( apartments ) as the rents keep rising but pay does not.

[-] 3 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 3 years ago

sure this is why concepts like autonomous building like earthships and cob homes, tiny houses, etc.. have caught on.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33169) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

Soon to be the mega expensive cubicles of the future - if we all live that long - which is debatable considering the increasingly toxic fossil fuel practices.

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

Expensive energy+shrinking capitalization=Good Night Irene

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

According to the latest print on the GDP,the economy is shrinking.Also,it appears that capitalization is shrinking in all areas that could possibly generate hiring of significant numbers of people.Looks like downward spiral to me.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33169) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

And apparently the only ones who can not see this - are - those in charge. Economy/Society meet flushing toilet.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

The plan must be to cultivate a customer base someplace else,because the Elites don't appear to care that American customers have less and less money to spend.I hope they don't plan on selling their goods in China.The Chinese government is planning on keeping Chinese markets for Chinese commercial interests.Walmart has started opening stores in India,and hopefully Indians will have enough common sense to burn those stores down as fast as they are built.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33169) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

The plan must be to cultivate a customer base someplace else

[ edit ] Heh the stupid bastards - taking economic stimulus out of this country to take advantage of slave labor and lax toxic standards in other countries - then expect those slave wage employees to be able to afford their products?

Insanity.

edit-> The only ones doing well in this economy are those in the Military Industrial Complex = Money from a multitude of governments to buy their products and increasing numbers of the population willing to serve as cannon fodder to get a roof over their head and an mre ( meal ready to eat ) three times a day.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

They want to allow partial development of decent wages in BRICS,let the middle class get plumped up a bit.A shearing of Sheep is always a short trip down the road.

[Deleted]

[-] 3 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 3 years ago

i agree that the relocalization of economies through the production and manufacturing of goods and services concentrating regional specialties and handicraft goods as well as value added goods and services. permaculture, co-operatives, intentional communities, and projects like opensource ecology allow for a radically different design to society and culture from the current model.

[-] 1 points by Ihippy (49) 3 years ago

Fighting tech is a fantasy. It's human nature to advance. The problem is how tech is used and who benefits. Much like our financial sector, the advances made in tech lead not to an easier life for the general population but rather to gains for those in power. Power allows for individuals to make unbalanced gains from every advancement made by humans. There isn't a lack of money being made, there isn't a lack of tech to make our lives easier. There is a lack of adequate distribution of those things. Rich people don't build anything. Rich people don't invent anything. The source of all advancements and wealth come from those who labor. The poor labor and the rich profit. This is how it works and this is the core problem. So before you get too far down the road with your idea of a living wage as handouts, I want to know how many hours you work every week and what do you have to show for your production at the end of the week. Do you gain wealth or do you create wealth?

[-] 2 points by wickerman (62) 3 years ago

80 hrs/week. For 40 of that I work for a wage, the other 40 I farm, with direct sales at least so far. In other words I sell to the end user. What I see tech doing is squeezing my farm out, 200 acres does not justify $400000 for the autonomous tractor that runs on GPS and does everything for me. In addition my fields are not completely flat so there would be a problem with the automated system. I can't afford a robot to build things, so I build them myself. I think it's time we stood up and said you will not use (electronic) slave labor to replace humans. We can't all be artists, or entertainers, if everything is produced by automation, then anything that we, who are not involved in the production at all receive from it is a handout. Just my opinion, but if I didn't earn it, it's a handout. I don't care if it is given because of who I am or because I am poor, or whatever, I don't want it. Folks like Paris Hilton have their lives handed to them, they didn't earn that life did they? I just can't see how fully autonomous production can benefit any of us, unless we are invested in the companies doing the producing. I am not trying to pick a fight, but do explain how automation can work to my or your benefit.

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1756) 3 years ago

You have more free advertising tools that can be automated than ever before (social media) and the ability to speak directly to your customers though it as well.

Positioning is always the name of the game, and I cannot think of a better time in history when it was more profitable to not be a corporation in food, for the very little guy (not speaking of the "small" farms that have been put out of business by the government and monsanto).

Big corporations are sluggish, they pay people like crap, and are generally very stuffy and rigid. All the things that people hate about them, you can give them. While price is important, its not something you can compete on. Local, fresh, organic are the features you want to push, with helping the community, better tastes and much healthier are the benefits.

Farming is manual labor if you dont have the machines, and hard labor isnt for everyone. But that sweat equity can make a hell of a story for your small company, and really bring people in on a personal level.

At the end of the day, this system is screwed for the small business people, and the ones who want to start one. The people will put the same cast of characters in charge of policy as they always do, and all you can do is try to do the best you can.

You cannot stop the heard of insanity by yourself. But you can try to build a network of likeminded people around you, which was probably one of the best outcomes of Occupy going forward.

[-] 1 points by Ihippy (49) 3 years ago

Asking people to hold back tech is essentially asking for a handout. I suggest you look at urban greenhouse farming. You can convert a small industrial building into something far more pleasant, benefit the community, and install automation that makes your job easier but that keeps the organic aspect. Also a good way to manage insects without chemicals. Just a thought.

[-] 0 points by turbocharger (1756) 3 years ago

We are going into a recession during a time of unlimited bail outs for the banks.

This story is not going to end well.