Forum Post: This isn't good, we're becoming what we're protesting
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 23, 2011, 11:53 a.m. EST by VeganBaby
(7)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/they_want_lice_of_the_occu_pie_9xKCxcI4aectFYkafMb8UJ
They Want A $lice Of Occu-pie
500G fight at Zuccotti
Even in Zuccotti Park, greed is good.
Occupy Wall Street’s Finance Committee has nearly $500,000 in the bank, and donations continue to pour in -- but its reluctance to share the wealth with other protesters is fraying tempers.
Some drummers -- incensed they got no money to replace or safeguard their drums after a midnight vandal destroyed their instruments Wednesday -- are threatening to splinter off.
F**k Finance. I hope Mayor Bloomberg gets an injunction and demands to see the movement’s books. We need to know how much money we really have and where it’s going,” said a frustrated Bryan Smith, 45, who joined OWS in Lower Manhattan nearly three weeks ago from Los Angeles, where he works in TV production.
Smith is a member of the Comfort Working Group -- one of about 30 small collectives that have sprung up within OWS. The Comfort group is charged with finding out what basic necessities campers need, like thermal underwear, and then raising money by soliciting donations on the street.
“The other day, I took in $2,000. I kept $650 for my group, and gave the rest to Finance. Then I went to them with a request -- so many people need things, and they should not be going without basic comfort items -- and I was told to fill out paperwork. Paperwork! Are they the government now?” Smith fumed, even as he cajoled the passing crowd for more cash. The Finance Committee dives on whatever dollars are raised by all the OWS working groups, said Smith, and doesn’t give it back.
The Comfort group has an allowance of $150 a day, while larger working groups, like the Kitchen group, get up to $2,000.
“What can I do with $150?” said Smith. “We have three tons of wet laundry here from the rainstorm -- how do I get that done? We need winter gear, shoes, socks. I could spend $10,000 alone for backpacks people need. We raise all this money. Where is it?”
Pete Dutro, 36, a Brooklyn tattoo artist who is getting a master’s in finance and sits on the Finance Committee, said big purchases like Smith’s can’t get immediate approval.
“We don’t have the power for that. They have to go to the General Assembly. If it’s approved, we pay out that amount and make sure everything is accounted for,” he said.
Within the next few days, the Financial Committee will release a detailed report, he said.
Yesterday, a huge flat-screen TV went up in Zuccotti Park for a movie night and pajama party with popcorn. Organizers hoped it would attract new recruits -- even as some long-timers complained that the movement was getting too diffuse after yesterday’s lackluster showing at a police-brutality event in Union Square that barely attracted 50 participants.
“I think it’s getting too spread out,” said John Glowa, 57. “My sense from where I live is that it’s losing steam. We gotta plug the holes.”
Some activists, like those in Pulse, the committee that represents Zuccotti Park drummers, are a bit worn out by all the collective activity.
Last week, on a rainy night, someone stabbed holes in many of the protesters’ drums with a knife, said Elijah Moses, 19, of Queens, a founder of the Pulse Working Group. Moses asked the General Assembly -- the nightly meeting where protesters collectively vote on OWS decisions -- for $8,000 to replace the drums, and build a small shed to lock them up.
“They said no -- they turned us down. I’m really frustrated,” said Moses.
This is so freaking depressing. I also read today about protesters refusing to feed the homeless "vagrants" that are showing up for meals. Wow.
JP Morgan is giving money to the cops to fight OWS! This country is so corrupt!
What's wrong with paperwork?
This is what tend to happen if the management and administration is not transparent and the ones making its decisions are not subject to accountability and recallable mandate.
Sometimes you just have to let things like this take on a life of it's own. I hate to see people acting out violently. My best regards for your voice being heard.
can anybody find a source for this "huge flat screen TV" "movie night and pajama party with popcorn" line? i only see it being reported by the NY Post, the Daily Mail, and Rush Limbaugh (and a few right-wing blogs, e.g. Stop The ACLU) - institutions not known for dedication to truthful reporting. sounds like BS to me - some lie a reporter stuck in to make the movement look disreputable.
hell, if you're going to submit this story to the site for any reason, it should be to expose fraudulent, biased reporting in the mainstream media.
This is a big problem, people. we better start donating this money back out or it will devour us. It is the ultimate co-option.
And who's overseeing this money? how do we know they aren't just taking it for themselves?
$8,000 for a new drum kit.
That's funny.
Sounds a bit greedy to me...
just read "animal farm" by george orwell.
Me too. Awesome.
Even up the wealth of the nation. Better yet, the world. Everyone can have the same opportunity, the same starting point, Everyone can work to their ability/desire, without having been hampered at the start. But what about my neighbour? She has four kids, i only have three to raise. Does that mean she gets more than me? The older bloke up the road has asthma, he needs his medication. I suppose that means he should get a little more. Sharon's oldest son is quadraplegic, so she needs probably more again. Dispensing the wealth of the nation is becoming complicated, and that's only in this culdesac. We will need someone to administer this wealth, that we'll accumulate by taking it off the rich. I think that should be my job. I will be fair and even. I know what is right and wrong. I can handle the responsibility of massive amounts of money, even though I've never actually earned any myself. I can imagine what it will be like. That's all the experience I need. Spread it out. That's the first and most important. Doesn't matter what you have done to earn it. There's enough to go round. You can sit in front of your computer watching porn. You can drink yourself to a stupor every morning. You can smoke dope till your eyes bleed. You can study at uni till you're fifty years old. You can all have the same amount. It's fair. Occupy Wall Street What a JOKE! You think you're revolutionaries, The ideal you seek is Communism. You think you can do it right? What happens when a centralised agency has to administer the wealth of the nation? Ask Russians how that worked for them. The only fair way is CAPITALISM Trade takes two parties, one to provide one to want what is being provided. Earn what you get If you want more Earn it.
It's unfortunate that people will ignore that OWS faces the same issues that people can't see the federal government facing if we move down an extremely liberal path.
hahaha these people don't even trust or help each other. this is exactly what the power elite want to happen. nothing will change. mass protests are a thing of the past. they don't work in the united states anymore.
Wow. Not good.
Everyone thinks they're the most important person in the world, and everyone thinks what matters to them matters to everyone. Welcome to consensus-building.
Please dont give up, we're almost there, demand this:
Informed Direct Democracy, the process by which the average well informed real public opinion is brought to the attention of all, directly, is now obviously made possible by the internet. Just as we have secure online banking, shopping, chat, forums, libraries, dictionaries, and many other types of large online services and gathering places of opinions and facts, we can have direct voting on ISSUES that affect everyone, accompanied by direct FACTUAL open sourced information available to all so we can KNOW what the issues are and how the issues affect people. The idea that most people are incapable of making direct decisions in their communities, governments, and international affairs because of lack of abilities, information, and lack of a practical method, is no longer tolerable. Most people on Earth, are perfectly capable of making sound decisions about any political, environmental, social issue, IF the people are provided with factual free open sourced information about the issues. Most people have enough common sense and reasoning abilities to understand and reach very reasonable solutions to all the issues we, the people of Earth, face today on local levels as well as global levels. Having poor education, as the 1% have turned our public education system into their consumer-worker brainwashing, is not the same as being stupid; and being trusting, as most people are, is not the same as being gullible, and is a virtue, not a weakness to be exploited by the greedy 1%. Most people should trust each other to share control over society together, not give up our liberties to a system of greed made by the 1% that's causing famine, wars financial desperation, poor education, and the destruction of our planet, all for MORE PROFIT FOR THE 1%. The internet already offers EVERYTHING that is needed to have Informed Direct Democratic voting on issues everywhere. All that is needed is for people to organize a system. This system should be started by the 99% Occupy International Movement right NOW, while there is still time. In a few short years, the PEOPLE OF EARTH could be voting on local politics and local issues, and on issues that affect their country, and global issues that affect everyone. Let's not allow the 1% to make us out to be a petty and shallow and selfish and cowardly poor VS rich movement. It's not about taking down rich people, it's about taking down GREED itself; most rich people have the same capacity for being reasonable as most poor people do. A real economic recovery is not accomplished by restoring the health of the financial institutions, because they measure their recovery in profit; we need to eliminate GREED from the financial system, because too-big-to-fail corporations reporting record profits does not equal healthy fair economy. The people can come up with MUCH better solutions together online NOW! It's time to stop handing over our control and trusting our representatives to make policies that reflect the will of the people, which they never do. We now have a system of greed running all governments and societies on Earth. Having the ability to vote AND BE INFORMED WITH THE FACTS about the issues directly as a people can FORCE our corrupt and greedy leaders to make the will of the people a reality. After all, in a Democratic society, the government's job is simply to administrate the process by which the will of the people is formulated into a body of laws and policies, which MOST people agree with, and then protect the peoples' rights to have such a Democracy. The government is sort of the secretary and the bodyguard of the people, not the authority for the people to be forced to follow even when most people disagree with its policies and decisions. In a true Democracy, the PEOPLE are the authority of the government.
MOST PEOPLE ARE REASONABLE, give all people the power of direct voting on issues, and we will have very REASONABLE policies, everywhere. Remember, the key is the FREE OPEN SOURCED INFORMATION (kind of like wikipedia) accompanying the voting sites on the internet.
So when reporters come to ask protesters on the streets what we are protesting for, what do we want, what are your demands (as if we were robbing a bank or something) we can say:
"WE THE PEOPLE OF EARTH DEMAND DIRECT INFORMED DEMOCRACY ENABLED BY OUR CURRENT COMMUNICATIONS TECHNOLOGY, WE DEMAND VOTING ON ISSUES THAT AFFECT PEOPLE DIRECTLY THROUGH THE INTERNET AND WE DEMAND THAT WE HAVE AN OFFICIAL OPEN SOURCED ONLINE LIBRARY OF FACTS ABOUT ALL THE ISSUES WE ARE VOTING FOR."
Here's a link I found dated 3 days before i wrote the above, it almost echoes everything I'm saying:
http://open.salon.com/blog/paul_levinson/2011/10/16/occupy_wall_street_direct_democracy_social_media_a_thumbnail_history_of_media_and_politics_since_ancient_athens
Sorry, but once infighting starts over money the movement is done. You didn't see this with the Tea Party hence their being able to sustain the movement.
1- Tea Party was not a movement (despite the sincerity of many attending, both then and to this day) but a series of corporately funded events, with all aspects, from planning to information dissemination and handling of funds worked out very early in the game by professionals.
2- Considering their events petered out due to inability to fill them, even with major corporate sponsorship and their own media network to market through, it is hard to consider the TP as successfully sustained, despite some participants retaining the title in fond remembrance of the fun.
3-Once someone posts providing evidence of a single problem in the movement, (recently brought to light and not yet allowed time for them to work out), adds a suspicious demand, but no constructive advice to match their earnest concern, proclaims OWS as done, irrelevant, etc, etc, and then holds the Tea Party up as a shining example in contrast with the dirty pool of OWS, I begin to doubt that poster's honest intentions. Sorry, but considering the nature and number of less than honest forum posters and their agenda, that's just how it is.