Forum Post: This is a REPUBLIC(or should be) not a democracy
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 8, 2011, 11:46 p.m. EST by steve005
(256)
from Cincinnati, OH
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
do you guys know anything of history, don't be lied to this should be a republic
Enlighten us.
Imagine a Revolution
To every empire the end has come. To every paper currency failure has occurred. To every society there comes a turning point; in America we turn now. I ask you to imagine a once free America. Imagine an America which promoted individual liberty and personal responsibility, not a welfare state. Imagine an America where the Constitution applied to everyone and every case, no matter how bad the crime or criminal at suspect. Imagine an America restrained by the Constitution, due process and the rule of law. Imagine an America devoid of secret watch lists, secret prisons and secret assassinations.
Imagine a moral society which only engaged in just war and only as a last resort.
Imagine an America, where the decision to go to war, is actually one declared by congress. Imagine an America which never endorsed the use of preventive wars to promote peace. Imagine an America where torture was never acceptable, even if called "enhanced" interrogation techniques. Imagine an America in which a warrant was always required to search or seize persons or property. Imagine an America which respected the writ of habeas corpus and condemned indefinitely detaining individuals.
Imagine an America where prosperity wasn't derived from private printing presses, but from true wealth. Imagine an America not ravished by endlessly spending a fiat currency in pursuit of economic growth; all the while promoting the welfare and warfare state. Imagine an America which encouraged savings while destroying that very possibility by devaluing the currency through the deceitful act of controlled monetary inflation. Imagine an America where coins were still worth their weight. Imagine an American in which gold and silver were actually legal tender.
Imagine an America where children are not arrested for front yard lemonade stands. Imagine an America where you couldn’t be arrested and jailed for gardening on your property. Imagine an America without checkpoints where blood could be drawn without warrant, against one's will. I ask you to imagine an America where citizens could make the simple decision to drink raw milk. Imagine an America which valued personal choice and responsibility above dictating morality through law. Imagine an America which allowed companies to actually protect their property and customers. Imagine an America where individuals actually had the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as long as they didn’t endanger others.
Imagine if rights were derived from creation, and not from government.
Imagine now an America in which citizens understood and respected the experiment of liberty began by their forefathers. Imagine now an America which still embraces the tired, the poor, and the huddled masses yearning to breathe free. Imagine now an America where the wretched refuse, the homeless, those searching for the New Colossus could venture to experience liberty. Imagine America no longer safeguarded the liberty they sought, but only the security and secrecy of the state. Imagine an America where ignorance isn’t sold as wisdom and tolerance not delivered by force. Imagine an America where politicians stood behind American principles. Imagine an America where oath to the Constitution was taken seriously and always upheld. Imagine an America of resounding liberty; not one of ever incrementally increasing tyranny. Imagine America as she once was: free and prosperous.
Now try to imagine an idea. Imagine an idea so powerful, so strong in it conviction, no army or government could stop it. Imagine a return of the respect of the Constitution. Imagine a return to due process and the rule of law. Imagine a return to sound currency and sound monetary policy. Imagine the abolishment of our partaking down the dangerous path of legislating morality. Imagine a return to a foreign policy of freedom and not of preemptive wars and nation building. Imagine the return to the ideals of extending friendship to all, and having entangling alliances with no one. Above all else, Imagine liberty and understand the responsibility having it demands from each of us. Imagine America not as an Empire but as a Republic.
Imagine if we had the chance to Restore America Now.
Imagine a Revolution.
http://youtu.be/Ka1ym7S3F3w
...it should be pretty common knowledge that the United States is a republic and not a true democracy. You should have learned this in like, junior high at the latest.
AT THE CLOSE OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, a woman asked Benjamin Franklin what type of government the Constitution was bringing into existence. Franklin replied, “A republic, if you can keep it.”
What's the difference between a republic and a democracy? I'm not getting your post.
Short answer: A democracy is ruled by the people. A republic is ruled by representatives elected by the people. You may think the former sounds like a nicer form of government. You'd be surprised.
More information about the differences between the two: http://lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html
More information about why our founding fathers intentionally created a REPUBLIC while the US government has encouraged DEMOCRACIES in foreign countries. http://beforeitsnews.com/story/677/517/Are_you_an_American,_or_a_person_living_in_America.html
Oh, I see. You are referring to a direct democracy, like the Athenians used so long ago.
If that's the case, I'd still rather stick with what we have. No sense in throwing away a perfectlly good system because of a single defect.
Do you know that this is a tired old argument, and it's about nothing more than semantics?
The US is a Democratic Republic, or a "representative democracy". We elect people to make specific decisions for us. This is different than "direct democracy", where people vote on specific issues.
Both of these, by the standards that vast majority of the modern world use, qualify as "democracy".
What is worrying about your post, other than lack of punctuation, is that you think the present should be a certain way because history dictates it to be so.
why? republics are oligarchies. We need real democracy, not oligarchy. republics and democracies are mutually exclusive.
to get serious requires a few things they don't have. like chat admins who aren't ego serving propaganda tools, a wiki, 1001 sub forums, an actual game plan, a straight up political platform... you know.. basic organizational things sane people do BEFORE protesting.. like figure out a diplomacy and logic centered metaprocess to give their chatadmins so that they don't really just drive out even more people than the trolls. Adminatrolla. trollaAdmin. Whats the difference to somebody whos got the truth facing a propaganda tool abusing admin powers to push their agenda? how can you prevent such a thing? Metaprocess. did i mention metaprocess? and science diplomacy science psychology science sociology and all those textbooks to read B4 protesting?
you can't have capitalism without a free(SLAVE) market. but you can have a free market without capitalism. And thats strangely the only way it CAN work.
Marketing 101 was fascinating. I admit thats a lot less than a bachelors but its sure more than enough to see whats really going on given the other things I know. Capitalism is not the problem since it does not exist. corporate oligarchy is the problem. capitalism has never been tried. I am a democracy guy. in order for real democracy to function a free market system is required. Thats not capitalism. thats a free market system. there is a subtle difference there which most people would miss. I will again repeat. Neither capitalism nor marxism nor communism nor socialism has ever existed. All of those governments were oligarchy pretending to be something as a con scam. Telling that simple truth gets one banned out of the Chat by either a capitalist or a socialist whos pissed you just said their pet ideology isn't real. It isn't. anybody who thinks that it is is accidentally playing for team corporate oligarchy as a tool. the ONLY system worth talking about is DEMOCRACY. how democracy HANDLES a FREE MARKET system is dynamic and interesting and NOT capitalism.
o. yes. no. yes. what? making change is not reliant on changing the money system one tenth as much as it is on changing the informational ecology. Going to a gold standard as an idea is a proof of ignorance, not a solution. Really the end game is we evolve out of money. To do that we evolve first new currencies and new economic strategies. this leads to economic singularity in about 50 years. If everyone is a millionaire how much you get depends on exactly the material valuation of that money. Which is to say that by the time money becomes obsolete everyone will live like the current millionaire. Tangible items to other tangible items? the real economy is about ideas, change the ideas and everything changes. the problem with the tangible economy is it does not change; its a static reality. you can't make a meaningful gold standard with only enough gold to represent on millionth of the economy. You can make a purely imaginal money system work; but it has to be subject to moral and ethical laws. This is about pinning down those moral and ethical laws and implementing them in new currencies; not trying to imagine a control freak impossible non solution because of the simplicity with which you go about thinking over the problem.
once again. there has never been a socialist or capitalist economy. in all instances such nations were oligarchies. using a mask and a con scam and telling their dupes and pwns that they were something other than oligarchy. the big hump to get over is that the USA oligarchy and the Soviet oligarchy are in on this lie against the rest of us TOGETHER. Neither of them was ever anything other than an oligarchy. both claimed some other system in order to have US fight over the ideals of THAT system while they secretly shafted us all playing a completely different game.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150343790359248&set=a.10150264906064248.348293.511989247&type=1&theater
Imagine a Revolution
To every empire the end has come. To every paper currency failure has occurred. To every society there comes a turning point; in America we turn now. I ask you to imagine a once free America. Imagine an America which promoted individual liberty and personal responsibility, not a welfare state. Imagine an America where the Constitution applied to everyone and every case, no matter how bad the crime or criminal at suspect. Imagine an America restrained by the Constitution, due process and the rule of law. Imagine an America devoid of secret watch lists, secret prisons and secret assassinations.
Imagine a moral society which only engaged in just war and only as a last resort.
Imagine an America, where the decision to go to war, is actually one declared by congress. Imagine an America which never endorsed the use of preventive wars to promote peace. Imagine an America where torture was never acceptable, even if called "enhanced" interrogation techniques. Imagine an America in which a warrant was always required to search or seize persons or property. Imagine an America which respected the writ of habeas corpus and condemned indefinitely detaining individuals.
Imagine an America where prosperity wasn't derived from private printing presses, but from true wealth. Imagine an America not ravished by endlessly spending a fiat currency in pursuit of economic growth; all the while promoting the welfare and warfare state. Imagine an America which encouraged savings while destroying that very possibility by devaluing the currency through the deceitful act of controlled monetary inflation. Imagine an America where coins were still worth their weight. Imagine an American in which gold and silver were actually legal tender.
Imagine an America where children are not arrested for front yard lemonade stands. Imagine an America where you couldn’t be arrested and jailed for gardening on your property. Imagine an America without checkpoints where blood could be drawn without warrant, against one's will. I ask you to imagine an America where citizens could make the simple decision to drink raw milk. Imagine an America which valued personal choice and responsibility above dictating morality through law. Imagine an America which allowed companies to actually protect their property and customers. Imagine an America where individuals actually had the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as long as they didn’t endanger others.
Imagine if rights were derived from creation, and not from government.
Imagine now an America in which citizens understood and respected the experiment of liberty began by their forefathers. Imagine now an America which still embraces the tired, the poor, and the huddled masses yearning to breathe free. Imagine now an America where the wretched refuse, the homeless, those searching for the New Colossus could venture to experience liberty. Imagine America no longer safeguarded the liberty they sought, but only the security and secrecy of the state. Imagine an America where ignorance isn’t sold as wisdom and tolerance not delivered by force. Imagine an America where politicians stood behind American principles. Imagine an America where oath to the Constitution was taken seriously and always upheld. Imagine an America of resounding liberty; not one of ever incrementally increasing tyranny. Imagine America as she once was: free and prosperous.
Now try to imagine an idea. Imagine an idea so powerful, so strong in it conviction, no army or government could stop it. Imagine a return of the respect of the Constitution. Imagine a return to due process and the rule of law. Imagine a return to sound currency and sound monetary policy. Imagine the abolishment of our partaking down the dangerous path of legislating morality. Imagine a return to a foreign policy of freedom and not of preemptive wars and nation building. Imagine the return to the ideals of extending friendship to all, and having entangling alliances with no one. Above all else, Imagine liberty and understand the responsibility having it demands from each of us. Imagine America not as an Empire but as a Republic.
Imagine if we had the chance to Restore America Now.
Imagine a Revolution.
Do it!
A good libertarian told me that: in a democracy 51% of the people can tell 49% percent of the people to f_ck off, but in a republic 1% of the people can tell 99% to f_ck off. So this must be a Republic.
" Bondage to Bondage – Democracy Bye-bye
john baker, April 10th, 2006. 5 comments. Filed under blogging, politics.
This commentary from Self-Winding quotes Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh in 1787. He was speaking about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:
A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."
My bad...buy the votes.
Here's my updated version: A republic is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A republic will continue to exist up until the time that eliite discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the elite always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every republic will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a financial collapse." It's happened several times since 1787.
A financial collapse, but not a complete collapse of the government resulting in a dictatorship.
Yet...
Unless we let it.
no democracy, not republic, a republic that wont happen in
Then how do you explain what is happening now? Do you believe this republic cannot fail? Nothing is too big to fail.
democracy.
The OWS is a democratic movement, but the failure of the republic is the force behind the movement. The republic has shown it can work only when it is not corrupted by financial manipulation, which it is now. I think it is fair to say the republic only works if there is a democratic majority rule ballast element to level the field occasionally.
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government." Alexander Tytler
http://johnbakersblog.co.uk/bondage-to-bondage-democracy-bye-bye/
From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence; from dependence back into bondage.
It is a republic. The Pledge of Allegiance defines it as a republic. "...and to the republic, for which it stands..."
AT THE CLOSE OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, a woman asked Benjamin Franklin what type of government the Constitution was bringing into existence. Franklin replied, “A republic, if you can keep it.”