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Forum Post: What NOT to do and why strong GOVERNMENT is good

Posted 1 year ago on Dec. 4, 2012, 10:32 a.m. EST by therising (6643)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

This article does a great job showing us WHAT NOT TO DO (and shows why STRONG GOVERNMENT is GOOD): http://transitionculture.org/2012/01/09/film-review-why-thrive-is-best-avoided/ . Besides being an accurate and very well written film review, it also serves the larger purpose of showing us how, while on the path of searching for solutions to legitimate problems, we can sometimes make a wrong turn into fantasy. And that wrong turn can actually PREVENT us from reaching very real solutions to our very real problems.

This is a really good 2 minute read from a respected British scientist that also hits on some of the ACTUAL solutions while at the same time offering a template / approach that may be useful in addressing all sorts of problems. If you are interested in the message of Occupy spreading, then you will get a lot out of reading this to see some clear pitfalls we must avoid.

So many in the nation have slipped into the error of thinking that government is the problem. This article points out that "the few countries in the world that are actually seriously engaging with the climate issue are those with stronger government, not weaker government." Strong government regulation could protect us from financial calamities like the 2008 crisis, protect our children from unsafe food and polluted water, protect workers from unsafe conditions, etc etc. The problem is that our government has been hijacked by the corporate forces that need to be regulated. So we shouldn't fall into the trap of being anti-government. We should fight against the corporate forces that corrupt our excellent system.

The government is us and should be us. And it is up to us to insist on that by taking action to remove corporate power from ruling our political system. How? Well here are some examples of what we could push for: http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/you-may-have-seen-this-list-of-8-practical-goals-b/ (of course there are specifics to fill in on content and methods but I think successful action on these items would make an enormous difference).

27 Comments

27 Comments


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[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 1 year ago

If the government is us, did i authorize us to go to war with iraq? did you? Did I authorize our government to bail out rich bankers, and wall street execs? Did you?

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Essentially yes. We Americans collectively did authorize through our apathy. We went along with it (as a whole) and didn't push from the inside (politically) or from the outside (forceful nonviolent direct action) in a significant way. If we had, we would have forced the issues out into the light and slowed or stopped the forces at work. So, for example, we Americans ought to be doing this to get our government back: http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/you-may-have-seen-this-list-of-8-practical-goals-b/ . That's not an end all be all but it would he a hell of a start to address some of the issues you mention.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

The key is not to fall into the trap of conspiracy theory or government bashing. The article by the British scientist above really shows us that line.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

Aye, that was a good read. There's an interesting video about human farming which talks at one point about controlling the mass by pitting us against each other in controlled ways, such as conspiracy theories. Sort of a conspiracy theory itself, but interesting.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Oh, there's no doubt members of the 99% are being pitted against each other (plus falling prey to human weaknesses that separate and divide us). The truth, of course, is that we have more in common than we had separating us and as soon as we wake up and realize that, the 1% will be absolutely beside themselves and we will be in a position to make decisions from a position of united strength instead of demands from a position of divided weakness.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28253) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Unity - in common causes. We are all more alike then we are different. The differences should be seen as a spice in life - good.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Good point. I'm always curious about what others have come across that works to get the unity message through all the noise. Have you had some successful interactions with groups or individuals wherein you were able to convince divisive minded person or people to see the logic and truth and benefits of unity?

For some reason the truth of "the whole is greater than the sun of its parts" doesn't always register with people.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28253) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I have and do advocate different groups - like the Sierra Club and Care2 causes and Union of concerned scientists - to reach out to each other and combine in support of common causes - as the combination of organizations will be stronger then the sum of their individual parts. This works in a united function as what gets more notice(?) 10 people in protest or 100 people in protest or 1000 people in protest or 400,000 + another group of say1,000,000 members + + + ... and all of these groups doing the organizing and combining of efforts into single efforts of combined strength. Each group organizing its members and then combining in action with all other groups. Synergy.

Understanding a concept - starts with people hearing the concept 1st. We have got to continue sharing and circulating good information ideas. This is how the conversation changed in the public this last year.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Synergy. Great word. I agree completely. My follow-up question is what things have you seen work to encourage and foster such synergy (other than just suggesting synergy). I suppose another way I could ask the question is, how did occupy movement gather so much steam in only a matter of days and weeks? How did all of those groups come together and march, protest etc. under the banner of occupy while still maintaining their individual group's identity?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28253) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Let the education and the opportunity to unite continue:

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“Never depend upon institutions or government to solve any problem. All social movements are founded by, guided by, motivated and seen through by the passion of individuals.” -Margaret Mead

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In the midst of all this, Move to Amend has experienced a red-letter year. Our message is resonating in more and more communities, but we still have work to do. We’re halfway to our goal of 500,000 signatures on our Move to Amend petition.

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[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Awesome. You should do that as a post.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28253) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Thx - done deal.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Cool. I need to study this more and learn from others comments. Seems promising.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28253) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Move to Amend has been around awhile - even promoted by this site in a news post. I post updates and tweet the issue as well. I Try to keep it in circulation for others to see and share.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

That's cool. I need to pay more attention to this.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28253) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yes - the corporation - another must see for everyone.


[-] 2 points by therising (4344) 3 minutes ago

I agree. Along those lines, if you haven't seen this, check it out. This particular scene in the film just blows you away: The film "The Corporation" has a great section on how corporations won "personhood status". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SuUzmqBewg . Fast-forward to 2:20. It'll blow your mind. The 14th amendment was supposed to give equal rights to African Americans. It said you "can't deprive a person of life, liberty or property without due process of law". Corporation lawyers wanted corporations to have more power so they basically said "corporations are people." Amazingly, between 1890 and 1910 there were 307 cases brought before the court under the 14th amendment. 288 of these brought by corporations and only 19 by African Americans. 600,000 people were killed to get rights for people and then judges applied those rights to capital and property while stripping them from people. It's time to set this straight. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28253) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Well we can't notice everything that comes along the 1st time. Recirculation - not every thing gets seen the 1st or even the 100th time around.

That is also why it is good for more people to post items even if it has already been posted to say facebook or twitter - as every one has different groups and people that they follow and who follow their accounts.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I agree. Along those lines, if you haven't seen this, check it out. This particular scene in the film just blows you away: The film "The Corporation" has a great section on how corporations won "personhood status". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SuUzmqBewg . Fast-forward to 2:20. It'll blow your mind. The 14th amendment was supposed to give equal rights to African Americans. It said you "can't deprive a person of life, liberty or property without due process of law". Corporation lawyers wanted corporations to have more power so they basically said "corporations are people." Amazingly, between 1890 and 1910 there were 307 cases brought before the court under the 14th amendment. 288 of these brought by corporations and only 19 by African Americans. 600,000 people were killed to get rights for people and then judges applied those rights to capital and property while stripping them from people. It's time to set this straight.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28253) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Occupy Mn was on the news last night as they protested for US Bank to work with a retired police detective to save her home from foreclosure - US Bank brought in GMAC as the ones that need to be worked with and GMAC put out a statement that they needed to be informed to work with someone - Basically it ( the Protest ) Showed how fucked up the foreclosure process in this country is - when people do not even know who they should be contacting and those initiating proceedings do not provide that information from the very 1st.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

That is very fucked up. Glad people are standing up on this front.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28253) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It took an event - the public that stood-up united were already aware of major problems and were already discussing them - then - VwooOOMM a match was lit the fuel was set-off - wallstreet fucked up again and the government still had yet to react properly - the public hit the streets. The groups were not concerned in how they were recognized - Occupy WallStreet was just a proper response to what had just happened - SO A Natural Rally Point And CALL. Occupy was born - OWS in NY and affinity groups all over from there.

To repeat and expand - the public needs to keep getting informed of what is fucked up - how it is fucked up - what can be done to correct this situation - and who is standing in the way of getting things done.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

So the income and wealth disparity are out there and growing. Real wages continue to decline. The ecological damage continues to increase. The corporate influence on political process continues to expand. The defense budget enriching defense contractors continues to grow. Factory farming continues to harm our children's health. Fracking continues to expand. ...... Etc.. Etc. What I don't get is why did Occupy movement take off so fast. Most of what I describe above, if you graphed it, would be very steady increase. No real event. It was just. BAMMMMM.

Pent up energy I suppose. And we used it in the right way with nonviolent direct action. But that pent up energy (the fuel) still exists doesn't it? Where are the matches now to bring about more nonviolent direct action?

Is that happening and it's just not being covered by mainstream media so it only appears to have leveled off or diminished? Or are Occupiers temporarily tired from spending a lot of energy occupying space?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28253) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The fuse was lit in 2007 - 2010 ( major beginning results of bad policy and the continuing evolution of the economic meltdown ) - the bomb went off in 2010 that gave birth to occupy - when many stood up and said ENOUGH - ENOUGH - QUIT FUCKING AROUND !!! ( This was not an instantaneous event - it took decades to develop to the point of social outrage/explosion )

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I think you're on to something. For me it began with supreme court giving Bush the presidency...... And the pressure grew and grew from there. I don't need to list all that happened from 2000 to 2011. But you're right, the pressure was building all that time. And finally it had an outlet.

So are the 1% now smiling and saying "ahhhh.... Pressure released."? If so, I don't think they realize that the last 15 months have had way more impact than just the obvious direct impact...... As anyone involved knows, Occupy movement has helped millions of people around the country and the world link up. And the impact of that is immeasurable. We'll see the nonviolent direct action and organizing that results from that coordination and SYNERGY manifest itself in the coming months and years. I can't wait. Just beneath the surface, the lava is bubbling.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28253) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

They ( TPTB ) have been trying to allay public reaction by their use of the news blackout - and multiple MSM broadcast distractions.

This time I do not think that they will succeed - they have well and truly screwed the pooch - and the People have had enough.

TG for the internet and the Birth of Occupy - now we need to continue reaching out and educating and providing action opportunities/ideas.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Agreed, and we must convince more people that the solution is to take back the peoples govt from the 1% corp oligarchs who have bought it out from under us.

Strong govt serving the interests of the 99% Is the only way to challenge the powers that seek to exploit workers, & minorities, and the weak.

Solidarity!

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I think what you're saying here is right on.